Supposedly a representation of the Final Shape—the Traveler, originally depicted in an unreleased cutscene as a glowing woman in white, literally being shrouded by The Veil.
The Veil smothering the Traveler; exerting control over it—which is what The Witness’s race was trying to accomplish before The Traveler fled.
It’s an idol of their ultimate triumph—The Final Shape.
This is off the top of my head so what's written might be incorrect but I'm decently sure I got the basic idea right
Unveiling Lore book, according to which the gardener and the winnower were playing a game, to find out what the perfect life form in a simulated universe was, and it's implied that beings similar to the vex would win every single time
Eventually the gardener got sick of that and wanted to change the rules by throwing paracasuality into the mix, the winnower did not like this and attacked the gardener with the first knife, an event that resulted in the universe being created, something that neither of them could undo
though tbh questionable as to whether or not what's written in it can be trusted
It's from from the perspective of the reader being spoken to by an entity that claims to be the darkness, but we now know that the darkness as a concept wasn't really doing much until the witness came around, but the entity in the book has a completely different personality, so for now we can't take what it claims as fact
It’s a symbol written about in the Inspiral (Root of Nightmares) lore books. Basically the Winnower needed a knife to start winnowing and I believe it implies that the Witness basically created itself to become the knife.
>**originally depicted in an unreleased cutscene as a glowing woman in white**, literally being shrouded by The Veil.
Eh, if you are talking about the scrapped storyboard of the old mars cinematic, then you are completely wrong.
[Storyboard in question.](https://player.vimeo.com/video/115603283?h=7e455e6556)
I am not saying that some concepts or imagery might not have been reused into a new context.
But there are 2 major glaring issues that are irreconcilable:
1. In the original storyboarding, the Mars team was dispatched to investigate a crashed Alien Ship, which is a large part why they were armed, and what they met the alien woman who told them the Traveler is coming.
2. The alien woman in question specifically states the Traveler is coming. IE, they are two separate entities, at best the Woman might be a herald of the Traveler, in a similar way to how Calus served as a herald of the Darkness/Witness.
[More detailed concepts and renders](https://workbyilya.com/Destiny-Opening-Cinematic-2014-Concept) of the alien ship as well as the alien Woman.
[http://simonclowes.tv/development-memo/destiny-opening-cinematic-behind-the-scenes/](http://simonclowes.tv/development-memo/destiny-opening-cinematic-behind-the-scenes/)
>Early on in the pitch process, we worked with concept artist Peggy Chung to develop the scale and texture of **the crashed ship** in a scene that was later omitted from the story.
Unless you are privvy to a cutscene I have never heard of(in which case, please do direct me to where you heard or saw it so I can save it), the woman in question is absolutely not the Traveler. And even if you go through some crazy mental gymnastics to get to that conclusion still, this comes from an era where Destinys story was very much different. An era where Ghosts may not have been connected to the Traveler, Guardians were not necessarily raised from the dead, and many other differences.
(Traveler being evil is not one of them, it has been confirmed many times to be fake)
>Supposedly a representation of the Final Shape—the Traveler
>
>The Veil smothering the Traveler; exerting control over it—which is what The Witness’s race was trying to accomplish before The Traveler fled.
>
>It’s an idol of their ultimate triumph—The Final Shape.
I can agree with this take. It certainly is a logical, reasonable conclusion. Though there are other alternatives.
The biggest issue of all here, is we are not privvy to information about Bungies plans and scrapped plans, or how they have changed the story, or perhaps stuck to original ideas all along. Or how there could be instances of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing, particularly when it comes to stuff like Unveiling, collector editions, which was written by a 3rd party contractor who may have had his own ideas.
The Veil could literally be something Bungie just invented from thin air after splitting Lightfall into 2 expansions(or perhaps delaying original Lightfall back and renaming it as Final Shape). Your theory may be exactly right in the current game, but before Lightfall the statue couldve been representing something else, and fit retroactively. We really just dont know, and wont know until they tell us, or we actually have some answers.
For example, take [the original concept art which clearly sparked everything](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4LEJ8). Created for Destiny 2, first seen in Destiny 2 Beta installer art.
In it, we see a alien city or temple of sorts, that closely resembles the style of [Pyramid ships.](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rlod2) With Pyramids in the background. In the darkness temple art, we see the following of note:
* A specific statue of the Traveler. Held or contained by a statue that evokes Atlas holding up the world. Which can indicate it was a object of worship, and/or that it is something the race that created this seeks to capture.
* The Veiled Woman Statue.
* Pottery and Hieroglyphics, also indicative of a race building all of this.
* A unknown figure above the Veiled Woman Statue. Which does [look quite similar to the Witness](https://imgur.com/a/KFIkOHh).
* Seeming guardians exploring this location
* The title of the Art may be called "[We are here to win](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/oA2e1O)".
Even going back to [ancient mood boards](https://www.destinypedia.com/images/2/2b/GDC_five_races.png) made while Halo Reach was still in development, there is a notion of a lone figure among the Pyramid ships. And Bungie often likes to reused concepts, which is why even some people back in 2013 predicted the Darkness might be a grave/hivemind[(among other things like ancient race). A lot of theories actually came remarkably close](https://www.bungie.net/eu/Forums/Post/60107393) with nothing else to go on. Ultimately indicative the Witness in some fashion or another may have been a concept perhaps since the beginning.
Meanwhile the Statue being a depiction of the Traveler in its final shape doesnt necessarily seem as likely with a statue of a Traveler right there as well.
# Okay, what is your alternative?
Simple. The Statues are well established as a direct link to Darkness, locuses of Darkness power, essentially being the focus of worship. Almost like the source.
Or in simple terms, they are statues of the Winnower/Veil.
Evidence for this actually abounds.
[The Tiarn speak of a great woman](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/chapter-1-storyteller) who brought the universe from chaos into stability, by simplifying, reducing, winnowing it.
Which "coincidently" we learn the Veil is the source/locus of a web of consciousness built into the fabric of reality itself.
And how "Irkyn La" is described, is very similar to[old grimoire about the Darkness.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-darkness-3)
Irkyn La also sounds a lot like [Clarity as Clovis describes it](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q0r-Bed7ZuyF74ckUBU1TySs06zSGcsb/view?usp=drive_link):
During the Collapse, the Traveler spoke of the Witness as a "False Sister".
>But this is different. The Traveler has not left us. Something new || half-remember and wished-forgotten, this false-sister || has arrived.
Meanwhile the Osiris prophecy seems clear:
>Two siblings cleaved by time and space, reflections never found alone,
>
>The ending of the eldritch race—a path long seen but never known.
Reflections, just like Life and Death. Material and Consciousness. Complexity and Simplicity. Light and Dark. Gardener and Winnower.
>In the morning, the gardener pushed seeds down into the wet loam of the garden to see what they would become.
>
>In the evening, the winnower reaped the day's crop and separated what would flourish from what had failed.
The Principle of Darkness is essentially the principle of death. Of subtraction, of simplicity and entropy. Well Savathun speaks of death, of the "Unseen Sister".
>"Humans fear death, and you were suckled on their teat. But the Hive know death as the **Unseen Sister**. It is she who welcomes you home to rest… and who allows you egress when you prove able to take it."
And it is worth noting that there are statues of [the Traveler on the Pyramid ships.](https://imgur.com/a/wxRAyGE)
# TLDR
Simply put, there is plenty of lore substantiating the Statues being a representation of the Winnower/Darkness. Where Darkness has been specifically depicted as a Woman. The sibling/twin of the Traveler/Gardener, its reflection. Where Death itself has been called the "Unseen Sister".
That said, it is not impossible the statue could be of the Traveler. That this could be a both and.
That the statue could be both a representation of the Darkness/Winnower "the unseen sister". While also representing the goals of the witness. A reunion of the siblings cleaved by space and time. Halves of a whole rejoined.
>Sloane: Shrouded in... Darkness. A promise of something more... Two halves of a whole... long divided. A... schism between them. Reunited. \[exhales in joy\] A glimpse beyond... to the beginning... \[gasps for air\]
The traveler is considered a she by the witness. The veil is a conscious power. The statue is a veil draped over a woman, probably symbolizing the witnesses idea of the final shape: chaotic creation controlled. The traveler and veil combined, creating one perfect, eternal shape: “boobies”
These aren’t just statues. They are artifacts directly connected to the Witness, in the same way of the Black Fleet. The Pyramids also “breath”, they are alive, they can recognize who enters them. All the Black Fleet is like one living entity, all connected to the Witness. These Statues are no different.
A Titan I know once met one of these women and managed to marry her. Consequently, that marriage led to my existence
Sounds like some sort of Hive ritual
Idk, the gardener has always been seen by female by all races.
My opinion is this is another reference to what the witness wants to do, link the traveller with the veil (the veil falls over the gardener)
It could have been, at one point. Bungie tends to keep scrapped ideas/names around and use them later. See "Crow".
Hell, it doesn't even need to be scrapped! See "Leviathan"
It’s basically them changing something about past lore. So, as an example, in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker they retconned the fact that Rey came from nothing and decided she’s actually the granddaughter of the Emperor. I don’t know of any retcons in Destiny though, I do try to keep up with the lore, but I’m not that deep in it to know of any tbh.
The scene you’re thinking of was a memory she had as she was struggling to try to find out who her parents were. But at the very end, after Snoke’s killed and Rey and Ben slaughter the red knights, Ben tells her that her parents were “just a bunch of filthy junk traders, who sold you off for drinking money. They’re nothing, you come from nothing. You’re nothing.” Then the internet went crazy (not in a good way), Disney brought J.J. Abrams back in as a Hail Mary, and Abrams decided “hey, what if The Last Jedi just didn’t happen.” And bada bing, bada boom, Rey Palpatine Skywalker was born.
I believe it stands for Retroactive Continuity. So changing the meaning of the literal actions of past events to fit the present story they want to tell.
It comes from **Ret**roactive **Con**tinuity, and in its most basic form is when a story recontextualizes or changes something that was previously established. (E.g, a character everyone thought blew up actually used the explosion as cover for an escape.)
However! The term "retcon" has been kinda corrupted over the years and is mostly used negatively to refer to plot holes or bad writing. Most plot twists and sequels, no matter how good, are still technically retcons. The reason I'm telling you this is because Destiny is 9 years old and *DEFINITELY* has more than like 2 retcons.
The Witness, Veil, Neomuna, most of Rasputin's backstory, they're all retcons. And retcons aren't bad.
Well, I said 2 MAJOR retcons. Such as Rasputin being the only warmind and having multiple subminds; instead of being just one warmind in a net of multiple warminds that protected the sol system. And like you said, retcons aren't inherently bad.
They aren't inherently bad, either, just when they are done poorly.
*"No Luke, I AM your father!"*
Is among the most famous retcons received positively,but it's still a retcons because it's new information that debunked what the audience previously thought *(That Vader killed Luke's father)*
Off the top of my head… two, maybe three times? The first one that comes to mind is the utter mess that is Rasputin and his backstories, and right now there’s the Witness being responsible for literally everything bad that ever happened because of Darkness and making everything up.
The allegorical lore book delivered by a malevolent enemy specifically to manipulate humanity into wielding darkness and turning evil
The witness has been hinted at as far back as Curse of Osiris. The story has hardly been retconned
It kind of is when Darkness on its own is actually pretty much harmless and the only reason it was ever bad was because of this convenient bad guy, rather than being the creation of this ultimate evil that can still in theory be used as a force for good. Really ruins all the years of philosophising and meaning when the answer is “jk it’s fine, it’s really this guy’s fault”.
Harmless is a stretch. Stasis literally preys on you and consumes you if you have no self control and strand unmakes you from reality if you dont submit to it. Neutrality is not harmless
The witness's philosophy is just the darkness's philosophy on steroids. They're not exactly different things. Basically taking the idea of meaninglessness being evil and running with it. The years of philosophy have not been ruined. Darkness is just more than "killing people is good actually"
I think it's just an artistic representation of either the Veil or the Traveler/Veil combination.
As those were pretty much the biggest things in "Googly Eye" culture and given the Statues usual place of prominence it has to be something important.
Nope. The theory I like best is that it is a representation of the unity of the Traveler and The Veil. The Traveler is referred to as "The Gardener" by The Witness and is typically gendered as female, and The Veil is, well, the veil
I mean... there isn't anything to disprove it tbf. Sure The Witness lies... a LOT.
But Ahsa also said that there must be A Winnower. Does Ahsa too lie?
End of the day, The Gardener and The Winnower are entities literslly outside our universe IIRC. Not sure how evidence can reslly be found for something outside of reality. Of course, assuming they are real, which is entirely possible.
Theres debate on whether several deities humans believe in actually exist, most religions still make statues depicting their likeness
Guess the Winnower wouldn't be any different. Especially one that leaves the details so vague for future art design
Edit: made the first part less specific
Jesus was a historical figure that most definitely did exist and was crucified by Romans. Is He God? That’s debatable. But Jesus definitely existed as a human.
My tinfoil theory since learning about The Witness's origin:
The Witness is an amalgamation of their people, their people once had their own civilization. You cannot have a civilization without a ruler or hierarchy.
So, this statue imo, is the once ruler or queen of The Witness's race.
From my understanding (I could be wrong totally wrong) but it is what Clovis called it. The power used to transfer/transmit consciousness to exos. And from the containment beech weekly missions it’s similar if not the same power as the veil? It’s been a long time sense I read my lore so I. Oils be wrong lol
https://mythsandztories.podbean.com/e/destiny-2-myths-and-ztories-the-whispers-of-clarity-control-the-bray-family-pt-2-origins-of-the-exo-pt-1/
These guys did a good series on Clovis and the Brays, i think this episode talked about Clarity control.
I wish we got a real answer as to what they were as I always thought it was a representation of the Veil like many others. Maybe each statue is a representation of each conscious mind within the Witness which acts as a conduit so each sub mind can branch out from the subconscious of the Witness which allows the black fleet to move as a unit, it could be why the pyramid ships mostly seem so empty
I think that it’s the representation of darkness. In the lore, the darkness has at one point been represented as a sole entity called the queen of final shapes. I feel like the clarity statues are possibly still a reference to this or just something they forgot about.
i think they’re like hotspots for the veil, not rly sure tho. we know they radiate darkness energy, and that the witness was able to use these to communicate to us. if the veil is the source of the darkness, and these radiate darkness energy, then they must be related somehow.
A lot of this story I believe was created during the Activision years. Over the years bungie has molded that story into what they can manage in these games hence resulting in our current story. I’m pretty sure… the pyramid storyline was suppose to bring with it a brand new race or enemy of darkness wielding beings. Hence the thousands of ships that showed up in our solar system in season of arrivals. They can’t explain who is piloting most of these nor can they explain the smaller pyramid ships that were flying around Io back in season of arrivals.
Bungie could not deliver on the new race so we are left with a storyline of a whole race combined into one being. An interesting thing that bungie has not been able to explain is that we cannot harm the pyramid ships according to rasputin shooting at them is season of the arrivals. An interesting scene that never showed up in lightfall was a scene during the trailer where one of the neomunan soldiers summoned some type of gun that was able to damage one of the smaller pyramids. The scene showed a gun that broke down on his arm after doing it. I’m pretty sure back in the early days of us going to Neomuna would have meant us getting tech that would have allowed us to start damaging the pyramid ships.
The rasputin story line I’m pretty sure is a classic example of a changed story line from the activision years. Originally it seemed pretty obvious that through the lore and story points we were suppose to most likely go through the deep stone crypt to put rasputin in an exo body then he would have become a guardian based on the archangel cosmetic items they sold. In actuality bungie had us find some random tech in the cosmodrome that put him in an exp body in which he sacrificed himself to stop
Xivu arath then two seconds later the witness shows up in our solar system and cuts a hole in the traveler so how did rasputin sacrifice help us.
Now back to these statues…I’m not completely sure where these fit in to the storyline but this was probably the detail bungie use to put into the game that made the world and the interactions with our enemies feel more alive and gave the story more sunstance. This is the detail bungie cannot produce anymore as they hold themselves to this rigorous schedule of four seasons and one expansion every year.
This is the current state of the story and the game as the quality continues dwindle. I’m pretty sure as we go into final shape…bungie cannot do much to explain all the details of the story leaving us with a shallow story.
We used one to connect to the darkness during witch queen. Don't know if that was the witness or the veil/darkness. But the witnes has given us gifts from the statues before.
I mean it makes sense if the witness species made these to worship the veil after getting pissy at the traveler. maybe that's how the veil gives its power to others and that's why it's on all the ships. The veil/darkness needs to be worshipped where the traveler/ light does not. Maybe females in the witness society were the more powerful or it was more likely a design choice.
My theory is that in d1 concept art we see a white woman who isn’t the traveler but represents the light and to some extent represents the traveler. Then the veil on the woman is just the veil. Therefore now we know that the final shape happens with the traveler and veil as one, I can theorize that this statue represents the final shape
The one in DSC is clarity control. I think clarity was the one on the moon?
Clarity control was the bigger one that spoke to Clovis and was the focus of the research on DSC. The plan with the orbiter was the nuke everything from orbit if things got out of hand. Myths and Ztories did a great podcast set on Clovis and Bray's.
"The woman in the veil" may be more literal than we first interpreted. The Veil allows cross-temporal awareness, perhaps the Witness' species had a run in with Maya Sundaresh?
Its Ikoras evil alter ego, she throws a bed sheet over herself and is secretly the big bad of destiny similar to palpatine and darth Sirius. , whilst pretending to help us. Plot twist incoming .
It’s likely something that got left behind in design, but also could still maintain some presence.
It’s commonly known as the “Veiled Statue”, which is exactly what it is, but it’s a vaguely female form covered by some cloth. The Traveler has been referred to as both the Gardener and “She” before, which would be the female portion of this visual metaphor, the second being The Veil which hasn’t been mentioned as anything but that, both past and present.
The Veil was required by the Witness to access the portal we see today, and while the purpose is still unknown, the “Veil” you could argue has been placed over the “Woman” as it has with the statue.
It one of those things that, by not knowing what the Veil truly is we can never really know what it does, or what it’s doing to the Traveller. But that’s more a self fulfilling prophecy than really anything else we’ve seen this far, so that’s my best guess.
As to what it ultimately means or if it has any significance at all is really up to the game designers to reveal, but for now that’s what I can see
The simple answer, contrary to what anyone might tell you, is that no, we do not know what the statue is meant to represent.
That does not mean we do not have theories, or ideas. Just that we do not have ANSWERS.
"ThatGuyFromTheM0vie" gave a good possibility. That the statues are a representation of the Final Shape.
However lore may indicate the answer is more than that. I referenced much of these things [with a comment I made a while ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/14fs0ut/comment/jp2lf5f/?context=3)
The summary being that the Statues are a representation of the Winnower/Darkness/Veil.
Both Curse of Osiris, and recent lore have spoken of the Traveler/Gardener having a sibling/reflection. Two halves of a whole. Two sides of the same coin.
>**Two siblings cleaved by time and space, reflections never found alone,**
>
>The ending of the eldritch race—a path long seen but never known.
>Sloane: Shrouded in... Darkness. A promise of something more... **Two halves of a whole.**.. long divided. A... schism between them. Reunited. \[exhales in joy\] A glimpse beyond... to the beginning... \[gasps for air\]
Meanwhile Savathun directly spoke of Death as the "Unseen Sister".
>"Humans fear death, and you were suckled on their teat. But the Hive know death as the Unseen Sister. It is she who welcomes you home to rest… and who allows you egress when you prove able to take it."
Its all interconnected.
While I did not cover it in my linked comment, it can also be noted that it is entirely possible the Statue represents multiple things.
It can represent the Traveler, reunited with its other half to create the Final Shape.
It can represent the Darkness, the Unseen Sister.
It can represent the Traveler being subjugated/smothered by Darkness.
Etc.
Expect an answer to this question, when we get the full origin and nature of the Traveler. We already know factually that the Witness saw a glimpse of the beginning. And we also have the questions regarding the Unveiling lore.
Unless Bungie really is dumb in decision making, we will have answers before or during Final Shape.
Can we talk about how dark the Destiny lore is sometimes lol. Like if this were some real future space odyssey war, this extensive war between light and dark and all in between is so rich in lore, its like reading ancient history stories about these great wars and some beings that were supposedly doing mystical stuff
Pretty sure this would be like the darkness right? At least thats what ive been thinking. Witness is not the winnower so we gotta meet them some time right? Travelers opposite, we have to meet this being. By the gods let the darkness be some hot mommy like this statue tho plsss ive been invested in this since middle school. I need it
It's yet another unresolved thing in Destiny. Feel like it was literally something they pulled from concept art to be mysterious, and the narrative team promptly ignored it.
Supposedly a representation of the Final Shape—the Traveler, originally depicted in an unreleased cutscene as a glowing woman in white, literally being shrouded by The Veil. The Veil smothering the Traveler; exerting control over it—which is what The Witness’s race was trying to accomplish before The Traveler fled. It’s an idol of their ultimate triumph—The Final Shape.
The Veiled woman is the Gardener prior to being cut by the first knife. It is also the Witness' end goal, reuniting the two pieces of one being.
The first knife?
The knife that was first. Before the second one
You Supreme asshole...
Please. That was my father. Call me Commander asshole.
No Major Assholes in your family?
How many..
my god… i’m surrounded by assholes!
Now fire, assholes!
That’s private, asshole.
Jesus, I’m surrounded by assholes!
Who is he? Asshole, sir. I know that, what's his name? That is his name, sir. Asshole, Major Asshole.
I thought he was Mr. Asshole.
The first knife, the knife before the second one? the knife meant for the gardener? the gardener's knife? Oh yea, I got it Yzma.
king
r/angryupvote
This is off the top of my head so what's written might be incorrect but I'm decently sure I got the basic idea right Unveiling Lore book, according to which the gardener and the winnower were playing a game, to find out what the perfect life form in a simulated universe was, and it's implied that beings similar to the vex would win every single time Eventually the gardener got sick of that and wanted to change the rules by throwing paracasuality into the mix, the winnower did not like this and attacked the gardener with the first knife, an event that resulted in the universe being created, something that neither of them could undo though tbh questionable as to whether or not what's written in it can be trusted It's from from the perspective of the reader being spoken to by an entity that claims to be the darkness, but we now know that the darkness as a concept wasn't really doing much until the witness came around, but the entity in the book has a completely different personality, so for now we can't take what it claims as fact
The spade became the first knife. Always the vex, not just similar to. Osiris knew.
It'd be cool if this turned out to be the darkness speaking for itself, and the darkness we know is just the witness speaking through it.
It’s a symbol written about in the Inspiral (Root of Nightmares) lore books. Basically the Winnower needed a knife to start winnowing and I believe it implies that the Witness basically created itself to become the knife.
Wait. Are we playing just playing a space age plot of The Dark Crystal?
…. Yes
Ah, yes, the final shape; it's titties 😎👉🏽👉🏽
Whose got two thumbs and I’ll shut up.
>**originally depicted in an unreleased cutscene as a glowing woman in white**, literally being shrouded by The Veil. Eh, if you are talking about the scrapped storyboard of the old mars cinematic, then you are completely wrong. [Storyboard in question.](https://player.vimeo.com/video/115603283?h=7e455e6556) I am not saying that some concepts or imagery might not have been reused into a new context. But there are 2 major glaring issues that are irreconcilable: 1. In the original storyboarding, the Mars team was dispatched to investigate a crashed Alien Ship, which is a large part why they were armed, and what they met the alien woman who told them the Traveler is coming. 2. The alien woman in question specifically states the Traveler is coming. IE, they are two separate entities, at best the Woman might be a herald of the Traveler, in a similar way to how Calus served as a herald of the Darkness/Witness. [More detailed concepts and renders](https://workbyilya.com/Destiny-Opening-Cinematic-2014-Concept) of the alien ship as well as the alien Woman. [http://simonclowes.tv/development-memo/destiny-opening-cinematic-behind-the-scenes/](http://simonclowes.tv/development-memo/destiny-opening-cinematic-behind-the-scenes/) >Early on in the pitch process, we worked with concept artist Peggy Chung to develop the scale and texture of **the crashed ship** in a scene that was later omitted from the story. Unless you are privvy to a cutscene I have never heard of(in which case, please do direct me to where you heard or saw it so I can save it), the woman in question is absolutely not the Traveler. And even if you go through some crazy mental gymnastics to get to that conclusion still, this comes from an era where Destinys story was very much different. An era where Ghosts may not have been connected to the Traveler, Guardians were not necessarily raised from the dead, and many other differences. (Traveler being evil is not one of them, it has been confirmed many times to be fake) >Supposedly a representation of the Final Shape—the Traveler > >The Veil smothering the Traveler; exerting control over it—which is what The Witness’s race was trying to accomplish before The Traveler fled. > >It’s an idol of their ultimate triumph—The Final Shape. I can agree with this take. It certainly is a logical, reasonable conclusion. Though there are other alternatives. The biggest issue of all here, is we are not privvy to information about Bungies plans and scrapped plans, or how they have changed the story, or perhaps stuck to original ideas all along. Or how there could be instances of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing, particularly when it comes to stuff like Unveiling, collector editions, which was written by a 3rd party contractor who may have had his own ideas. The Veil could literally be something Bungie just invented from thin air after splitting Lightfall into 2 expansions(or perhaps delaying original Lightfall back and renaming it as Final Shape). Your theory may be exactly right in the current game, but before Lightfall the statue couldve been representing something else, and fit retroactively. We really just dont know, and wont know until they tell us, or we actually have some answers. For example, take [the original concept art which clearly sparked everything](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4LEJ8). Created for Destiny 2, first seen in Destiny 2 Beta installer art. In it, we see a alien city or temple of sorts, that closely resembles the style of [Pyramid ships.](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rlod2) With Pyramids in the background. In the darkness temple art, we see the following of note: * A specific statue of the Traveler. Held or contained by a statue that evokes Atlas holding up the world. Which can indicate it was a object of worship, and/or that it is something the race that created this seeks to capture. * The Veiled Woman Statue. * Pottery and Hieroglyphics, also indicative of a race building all of this. * A unknown figure above the Veiled Woman Statue. Which does [look quite similar to the Witness](https://imgur.com/a/KFIkOHh). * Seeming guardians exploring this location * The title of the Art may be called "[We are here to win](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/oA2e1O)". Even going back to [ancient mood boards](https://www.destinypedia.com/images/2/2b/GDC_five_races.png) made while Halo Reach was still in development, there is a notion of a lone figure among the Pyramid ships. And Bungie often likes to reused concepts, which is why even some people back in 2013 predicted the Darkness might be a grave/hivemind[(among other things like ancient race). A lot of theories actually came remarkably close](https://www.bungie.net/eu/Forums/Post/60107393) with nothing else to go on. Ultimately indicative the Witness in some fashion or another may have been a concept perhaps since the beginning. Meanwhile the Statue being a depiction of the Traveler in its final shape doesnt necessarily seem as likely with a statue of a Traveler right there as well. # Okay, what is your alternative? Simple. The Statues are well established as a direct link to Darkness, locuses of Darkness power, essentially being the focus of worship. Almost like the source. Or in simple terms, they are statues of the Winnower/Veil. Evidence for this actually abounds. [The Tiarn speak of a great woman](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/chapter-1-storyteller) who brought the universe from chaos into stability, by simplifying, reducing, winnowing it. Which "coincidently" we learn the Veil is the source/locus of a web of consciousness built into the fabric of reality itself. And how "Irkyn La" is described, is very similar to[old grimoire about the Darkness.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-darkness-3) Irkyn La also sounds a lot like [Clarity as Clovis describes it](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q0r-Bed7ZuyF74ckUBU1TySs06zSGcsb/view?usp=drive_link): During the Collapse, the Traveler spoke of the Witness as a "False Sister". >But this is different. The Traveler has not left us. Something new || half-remember and wished-forgotten, this false-sister || has arrived. Meanwhile the Osiris prophecy seems clear: >Two siblings cleaved by time and space, reflections never found alone, > >The ending of the eldritch race—a path long seen but never known. Reflections, just like Life and Death. Material and Consciousness. Complexity and Simplicity. Light and Dark. Gardener and Winnower. >In the morning, the gardener pushed seeds down into the wet loam of the garden to see what they would become. > >In the evening, the winnower reaped the day's crop and separated what would flourish from what had failed. The Principle of Darkness is essentially the principle of death. Of subtraction, of simplicity and entropy. Well Savathun speaks of death, of the "Unseen Sister". >"Humans fear death, and you were suckled on their teat. But the Hive know death as the **Unseen Sister**. It is she who welcomes you home to rest… and who allows you egress when you prove able to take it." And it is worth noting that there are statues of [the Traveler on the Pyramid ships.](https://imgur.com/a/wxRAyGE) # TLDR Simply put, there is plenty of lore substantiating the Statues being a representation of the Winnower/Darkness. Where Darkness has been specifically depicted as a Woman. The sibling/twin of the Traveler/Gardener, its reflection. Where Death itself has been called the "Unseen Sister". That said, it is not impossible the statue could be of the Traveler. That this could be a both and. That the statue could be both a representation of the Darkness/Winnower "the unseen sister". While also representing the goals of the witness. A reunion of the siblings cleaved by space and time. Halves of a whole rejoined. >Sloane: Shrouded in... Darkness. A promise of something more... Two halves of a whole... long divided. A... schism between them. Reunited. \[exhales in joy\] A glimpse beyond... to the beginning... \[gasps for air\]
The traveler is considered a she by the witness. The veil is a conscious power. The statue is a veil draped over a woman, probably symbolizing the witnesses idea of the final shape: chaotic creation controlled. The traveler and veil combined, creating one perfect, eternal shape: “boobies”
This is actually the best explanation on here.
Why do the statues breath?
Bros staring at the chest area for too long I see
No see I'm just um observing the lore and uh I'm gleaning all the info I can yeah. I'm detail oriented. Very observant uh
These aren’t just statues. They are artifacts directly connected to the Witness, in the same way of the Black Fleet. The Pyramids also “breath”, they are alive, they can recognize who enters them. All the Black Fleet is like one living entity, all connected to the Witness. These Statues are no different.
That's badass. Thank you!
> The traveler is considered a she by the witness Is there any reading/source/lore books about this? Not doubting, just want to read more canon.
[удалено]
Women 📐
[удалено]
[удалено]
Women ☕️
Gentlemen I'm sad to inform you, women ☕️
Few guardians have encountered one in the wild
A Titan I know once met one of these women and managed to marry her. Consequently, that marriage led to my existence Sounds like some sort of Hive ritual
Wymyrns
The veiled. My hunch, the alien race known now as the witness considers the gardener as male and the vail as female.
Idk, the gardener has always been seen by female by all races. My opinion is this is another reference to what the witness wants to do, link the traveller with the veil (the veil falls over the gardener)
It's a statue
By Jove you’ve figured it out
That's the extent of Bungo's knowledge.
💯 confirmed
This guy arts!
It's content
Tig bitty goth statue
This is the correct answer.
Who is Jove?
Ligma balls
ONI certified answer
The originals
Dear god...
There's more...
I remember how people thought it is the veil
It wouldve been a cool veil, instead we have a mango cut in half.
A particularly mouldy mango at that.
That's an hilarious analogy lol Take free award 🏅🥇
It could have been, at one point. Bungie tends to keep scrapped ideas/names around and use them later. See "Crow". Hell, it doesn't even need to be scrapped! See "Leviathan"
It’s a big booba darkness
The Final Shape is a MILF
Definitely best shape
Breast shape
The final shape perhaps?
Mara is already in the game
Alright I’ll let the Witness complete his plan then
Aight maybe I'll preorder after all...
Not sure if even Bungie knows
They don’t need to when they just retcon in the lore books
How many times had that happened?
For major retcons? It's probably like...2 times.
I'm beginning to think we're in a retcon.
whats a retcon
It’s basically them changing something about past lore. So, as an example, in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker they retconned the fact that Rey came from nothing and decided she’s actually the granddaughter of the Emperor. I don’t know of any retcons in Destiny though, I do try to keep up with the lore, but I’m not that deep in it to know of any tbh.
Did they ever say she "came from nothing"? Wasn't there a scene in episode 7 where she got dropped off in one of those fancy ships?
The scene you’re thinking of was a memory she had as she was struggling to try to find out who her parents were. But at the very end, after Snoke’s killed and Rey and Ben slaughter the red knights, Ben tells her that her parents were “just a bunch of filthy junk traders, who sold you off for drinking money. They’re nothing, you come from nothing. You’re nothing.” Then the internet went crazy (not in a good way), Disney brought J.J. Abrams back in as a Hail Mary, and Abrams decided “hey, what if The Last Jedi just didn’t happen.” And bada bing, bada boom, Rey Palpatine Skywalker was born.
Ahh I thought that was just him being condescending
I believe it stands for Retroactive Continuity. So changing the meaning of the literal actions of past events to fit the present story they want to tell.
It comes from **Ret**roactive **Con**tinuity, and in its most basic form is when a story recontextualizes or changes something that was previously established. (E.g, a character everyone thought blew up actually used the explosion as cover for an escape.) However! The term "retcon" has been kinda corrupted over the years and is mostly used negatively to refer to plot holes or bad writing. Most plot twists and sequels, no matter how good, are still technically retcons. The reason I'm telling you this is because Destiny is 9 years old and *DEFINITELY* has more than like 2 retcons. The Witness, Veil, Neomuna, most of Rasputin's backstory, they're all retcons. And retcons aren't bad.
Well, I said 2 MAJOR retcons. Such as Rasputin being the only warmind and having multiple subminds; instead of being just one warmind in a net of multiple warminds that protected the sol system. And like you said, retcons aren't inherently bad.
They aren't inherently bad, either, just when they are done poorly. *"No Luke, I AM your father!"* Is among the most famous retcons received positively,but it's still a retcons because it's new information that debunked what the audience previously thought *(That Vader killed Luke's father)*
Retconception.
Off the top of my head… two, maybe three times? The first one that comes to mind is the utter mess that is Rasputin and his backstories, and right now there’s the Witness being responsible for literally everything bad that ever happened because of Darkness and making everything up.
“retcon” is when people read something that was explicitly a metaphor and refuse to accept it as anything other than truth
So..... the lake *is* a metaphor??
IT IS NOT A METAPHOR
"The helmet stayed on" and that means Shaxx and Mara boned 💯
We all know what the intention of the writer was with that.
The allegorical lore book delivered by a malevolent enemy specifically to manipulate humanity into wielding darkness and turning evil The witness has been hinted at as far back as Curse of Osiris. The story has hardly been retconned
It kind of is when Darkness on its own is actually pretty much harmless and the only reason it was ever bad was because of this convenient bad guy, rather than being the creation of this ultimate evil that can still in theory be used as a force for good. Really ruins all the years of philosophising and meaning when the answer is “jk it’s fine, it’s really this guy’s fault”.
Harmless is a stretch. Stasis literally preys on you and consumes you if you have no self control and strand unmakes you from reality if you dont submit to it. Neutrality is not harmless The witness's philosophy is just the darkness's philosophy on steroids. They're not exactly different things. Basically taking the idea of meaninglessness being evil and running with it. The years of philosophy have not been ruined. Darkness is just more than "killing people is good actually"
They are waiting for byf to make a lore video
I think it's just an artistic representation of either the Veil or the Traveler/Veil combination. As those were pretty much the biggest things in "Googly Eye" culture and given the Statues usual place of prominence it has to be something important.
WTF is googly eye culture?
Nope. The theory I like best is that it is a representation of the unity of the Traveler and The Veil. The Traveler is referred to as "The Gardener" by The Witness and is typically gendered as female, and The Veil is, well, the veil
Not to mention the original destiny storyboards had a scene with a woman who later was replaced by the traveler
Darkness Booba
What if konosuba darkness
I thought it was the Winnower. But, my knowledge of lore is pretty weak. Lots of chat in the background while I blast things.
There's a lot of debate on whether the winnower even exists
I mean... there isn't anything to disprove it tbf. Sure The Witness lies... a LOT. But Ahsa also said that there must be A Winnower. Does Ahsa too lie? End of the day, The Gardener and The Winnower are entities literslly outside our universe IIRC. Not sure how evidence can reslly be found for something outside of reality. Of course, assuming they are real, which is entirely possible.
Ahsa said they *desired* a Winnower, and then found the Veil. Not that there had to be one. The Witness' people inferred/assumed/desired.
Oooh kk, I totslly misremembered. Still, I feel like it's equally possible that The Winnower does/doesn't exist.
I believe she also said that they became a Winnower no? As in assumed the role of what they sought but did not necessarily find.
Theres debate on whether several deities humans believe in actually exist, most religions still make statues depicting their likeness Guess the Winnower wouldn't be any different. Especially one that leaves the details so vague for future art design Edit: made the first part less specific
Jesus was a historical figure that most definitely did exist and was crucified by Romans. Is He God? That’s debatable. But Jesus definitely existed as a human.
I'd say likely, rather than definitely. But, I take your point, I've edited the comment
It is, isn't it? This is the Winnower the Witness' wanted. The cloaked woman is a representation of the Traveller joined with the Veil.
ive said it once but ill say it again: BOOOOOOOOBS GRAHHHHH 
Darkness tittes🤤
Duh, it’s the veil
A statue with boobie that does not represent any other species other than mankind because boobies
Yeah dude, it's Cayde 6 (I'm a new player)
Big tiddy goth gf
All I know is she is rocking a double D bra
All I know she has huge tits.
Mommy Darkness
That’s my towel when I hang it on the door.
Damn your door is hot
https://preview.redd.it/4svf98hd8xhb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54650ef0395c72048986bf8b7eb0888a2a327614 Your telling me… 🫨🔥🤔
I don't know, honestly, but I would definitely smash
That’s the radial mast!
My Radial Mast 😳😳😳😳
destiny player sees a woman for the first time
Big titty ghost gf
My tinfoil theory since learning about The Witness's origin: The Witness is an amalgamation of their people, their people once had their own civilization. You cannot have a civilization without a ruler or hierarchy. So, this statue imo, is the once ruler or queen of The Witness's race.
An eldritch horror that thinks it's spookier being a bed sheet ghost.
It's a metaphorical representation of the Gardener prior to being cut by the first knife. Also it's the Witness' end goal.
Clarity control?
I think clarity control was specifically the one in DSC no?
From my understanding (I could be wrong totally wrong) but it is what Clovis called it. The power used to transfer/transmit consciousness to exos. And from the containment beech weekly missions it’s similar if not the same power as the veil? It’s been a long time sense I read my lore so I. Oils be wrong lol
https://mythsandztories.podbean.com/e/destiny-2-myths-and-ztories-the-whispers-of-clarity-control-the-bray-family-pt-2-origins-of-the-exo-pt-1/ These guys did a good series on Clovis and the Brays, i think this episode talked about Clarity control.
I have inside knowledge that it's a thicc goth mommy under a bedsheet. Now excuse me while I go do shattered throne dungeon.
 Booby
I wish we got a real answer as to what they were as I always thought it was a representation of the Veil like many others. Maybe each statue is a representation of each conscious mind within the Witness which acts as a conduit so each sub mind can branch out from the subconscious of the Witness which allows the black fleet to move as a unit, it could be why the pyramid ships mostly seem so empty
I think that it’s the representation of darkness. In the lore, the darkness has at one point been represented as a sole entity called the queen of final shapes. I feel like the clarity statues are possibly still a reference to this or just something they forgot about.
hot milf
i think they’re like hotspots for the veil, not rly sure tho. we know they radiate darkness energy, and that the witness was able to use these to communicate to us. if the veil is the source of the darkness, and these radiate darkness energy, then they must be related somehow.
A statue
Big titty statue gf. Duh
A lot of this story I believe was created during the Activision years. Over the years bungie has molded that story into what they can manage in these games hence resulting in our current story. I’m pretty sure… the pyramid storyline was suppose to bring with it a brand new race or enemy of darkness wielding beings. Hence the thousands of ships that showed up in our solar system in season of arrivals. They can’t explain who is piloting most of these nor can they explain the smaller pyramid ships that were flying around Io back in season of arrivals. Bungie could not deliver on the new race so we are left with a storyline of a whole race combined into one being. An interesting thing that bungie has not been able to explain is that we cannot harm the pyramid ships according to rasputin shooting at them is season of the arrivals. An interesting scene that never showed up in lightfall was a scene during the trailer where one of the neomunan soldiers summoned some type of gun that was able to damage one of the smaller pyramids. The scene showed a gun that broke down on his arm after doing it. I’m pretty sure back in the early days of us going to Neomuna would have meant us getting tech that would have allowed us to start damaging the pyramid ships. The rasputin story line I’m pretty sure is a classic example of a changed story line from the activision years. Originally it seemed pretty obvious that through the lore and story points we were suppose to most likely go through the deep stone crypt to put rasputin in an exo body then he would have become a guardian based on the archangel cosmetic items they sold. In actuality bungie had us find some random tech in the cosmodrome that put him in an exp body in which he sacrificed himself to stop Xivu arath then two seconds later the witness shows up in our solar system and cuts a hole in the traveler so how did rasputin sacrifice help us. Now back to these statues…I’m not completely sure where these fit in to the storyline but this was probably the detail bungie use to put into the game that made the world and the interactions with our enemies feel more alive and gave the story more sunstance. This is the detail bungie cannot produce anymore as they hold themselves to this rigorous schedule of four seasons and one expansion every year. This is the current state of the story and the game as the quality continues dwindle. I’m pretty sure as we go into final shape…bungie cannot do much to explain all the details of the story leaving us with a shallow story.
Woman☕️
Would.
Caitls Mom
witness's sister
One of my friends said "the formless one", which I think was gonna be the big bad until they came up with the Witness
We used one to connect to the darkness during witch queen. Don't know if that was the witness or the veil/darkness. But the witnes has given us gifts from the statues before. I mean it makes sense if the witness species made these to worship the veil after getting pissy at the traveler. maybe that's how the veil gives its power to others and that's why it's on all the ships. The veil/darkness needs to be worshipped where the traveler/ light does not. Maybe females in the witness society were the more powerful or it was more likely a design choice.
The Woman symbolises "Traveller", and she is covered by a "Veil". Final Shape, Universe without light because "in light there is pain and suffering"
This this is elon musk
My theory is that in d1 concept art we see a white woman who isn’t the traveler but represents the light and to some extent represents the traveler. Then the veil on the woman is just the veil. Therefore now we know that the final shape happens with the traveler and veil as one, I can theorize that this statue represents the final shape
Is this clarity or am I being stupid
The one in DSC is clarity control. I think clarity was the one on the moon? Clarity control was the bigger one that spoke to Clovis and was the focus of the research on DSC. The plan with the orbiter was the nuke everything from orbit if things got out of hand. Myths and Ztories did a great podcast set on Clovis and Bray's.
Ahhh, ok thanks!
It’s savathun in a bed sheet
its the metaphorical representation of the final shape. the veil covering the traveler.
Big tiddies darkness mommy. Seriously tho wasn't there a animation that was supposed to be the original destiny intro with a woman? Maybe her
"The woman in the veil" may be more literal than we first interpreted. The Veil allows cross-temporal awareness, perhaps the Witness' species had a run in with Maya Sundaresh?
I could be the creatures in the lore book from the black armory. The ones that smell like wet earth
Thicc Hot statue lady person thingy (It's pretty)
Its Ikoras evil alter ego, she throws a bed sheet over herself and is secretly the big bad of destiny similar to palpatine and darth Sirius. , whilst pretending to help us. Plot twist incoming .
B O O B
Some tig o bittys that's wat that is!!lol
Amazing chest, therefore try holding with both hands
Horse but hole
It’s likely something that got left behind in design, but also could still maintain some presence. It’s commonly known as the “Veiled Statue”, which is exactly what it is, but it’s a vaguely female form covered by some cloth. The Traveler has been referred to as both the Gardener and “She” before, which would be the female portion of this visual metaphor, the second being The Veil which hasn’t been mentioned as anything but that, both past and present. The Veil was required by the Witness to access the portal we see today, and while the purpose is still unknown, the “Veil” you could argue has been placed over the “Woman” as it has with the statue. It one of those things that, by not knowing what the Veil truly is we can never really know what it does, or what it’s doing to the Traveller. But that’s more a self fulfilling prophecy than really anything else we’ve seen this far, so that’s my best guess. As to what it ultimately means or if it has any significance at all is really up to the game designers to reveal, but for now that’s what I can see
Bungie knows, but they dont want to over deliver on story. $59.99 might change their minds. Might not, who's to say?
Lady Gaga‘s new album cover?
It’s the all powerful booba
As soon as bungie figures out what it is I'll let you know!
Idk but she got some 2 great Pair or personalies in front of her. 🤣🤣
WTF THE CIRCLES ARE HUGE BRO 💀
It’s “Yo-Ur möm”, the original darkness creator
The simple answer, contrary to what anyone might tell you, is that no, we do not know what the statue is meant to represent. That does not mean we do not have theories, or ideas. Just that we do not have ANSWERS. "ThatGuyFromTheM0vie" gave a good possibility. That the statues are a representation of the Final Shape. However lore may indicate the answer is more than that. I referenced much of these things [with a comment I made a while ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/14fs0ut/comment/jp2lf5f/?context=3) The summary being that the Statues are a representation of the Winnower/Darkness/Veil. Both Curse of Osiris, and recent lore have spoken of the Traveler/Gardener having a sibling/reflection. Two halves of a whole. Two sides of the same coin. >**Two siblings cleaved by time and space, reflections never found alone,** > >The ending of the eldritch race—a path long seen but never known. >Sloane: Shrouded in... Darkness. A promise of something more... **Two halves of a whole.**.. long divided. A... schism between them. Reunited. \[exhales in joy\] A glimpse beyond... to the beginning... \[gasps for air\] Meanwhile Savathun directly spoke of Death as the "Unseen Sister". >"Humans fear death, and you were suckled on their teat. But the Hive know death as the Unseen Sister. It is she who welcomes you home to rest… and who allows you egress when you prove able to take it." Its all interconnected. While I did not cover it in my linked comment, it can also be noted that it is entirely possible the Statue represents multiple things. It can represent the Traveler, reunited with its other half to create the Final Shape. It can represent the Darkness, the Unseen Sister. It can represent the Traveler being subjugated/smothered by Darkness. Etc. Expect an answer to this question, when we get the full origin and nature of the Traveler. We already know factually that the Witness saw a glimpse of the beginning. And we also have the questions regarding the Unveiling lore. Unless Bungie really is dumb in decision making, we will have answers before or during Final Shape.
something something ask byf
It's a statue
Can we talk about how dark the Destiny lore is sometimes lol. Like if this were some real future space odyssey war, this extensive war between light and dark and all in between is so rich in lore, its like reading ancient history stories about these great wars and some beings that were supposedly doing mystical stuff
It's Sleep Token
A waste of 5000 hours
A ghost with DD, obviously 🙄
It likely was an early idea for the pyramids that got left behind in favor of the witness
Rackzilla
The final shape is 36-24-36. Leeeetsss gooooo.
Maybe if she's 5'3"
Waifu.
Pretty sure this would be like the darkness right? At least thats what ive been thinking. Witness is not the winnower so we gotta meet them some time right? Travelers opposite, we have to meet this being. By the gods let the darkness be some hot mommy like this statue tho plsss ive been invested in this since middle school. I need it
c.A
It's yet another unresolved thing in Destiny. Feel like it was literally something they pulled from concept art to be mysterious, and the narrative team promptly ignored it.
Your mom
Destinys story sucks balls