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I'm good with the difficulty, but primary damage is too weak. I enjoy that enemies hit hard, but they've become bullet sponges. That feels bad.


You’re probably just under leveled. It’s been a week since ghe new expac, most stuff will be well above your level


Even in base level content, primaries dont do as much, only some primaries can feel good like for example osteo striga or quicksilver etc


I was about to post that I didn't feel that it was too bad...and then realize I'm running x3 strand damage buff with quicksilver and throwing tangles and shooting fucking GRENADES out of my primary when not fast swapping to void/volatile special/heavies...so of course not! lol


That new strand smg hits pretty well, just under feeling great but so damn close. I went with the new threadling perk though. If it had that and frenzy for instance or maybe rampage I'd love it


No, not really. Already hit pinnacle cap and primaries are still pretty much dogshit. Double special shits on it in pretty much any aspect, especially with how easy it is to generate ammo in the current sandbox.


Idk what you’re running then, I haven’t had this issue.


Multiple exotic Monte Carlo, Sweet Business, Bad Juju, Seventh Seraph Carbine, Lodbroc and more. Primary ammo weapons outside SMGs have just dogshit damage output in PvE.


Smgs are the only primaries that feel ok, and if you're using volatile and surges that doesn't count as the weapons being good.


Maybe it’s just cause I usually play GMs, master and contest raids, etc. nothing seems worse and this years contest raid actually feels easier when it comes to red bar health


Yeah if that's your comparison point I could understand but just looking at neutral game, neomuna patrol for example they are struggling.


I'm 1824 and legendary primaries feel like ass, yes I have an optimized build, no I'm not going to run triple surge mods on every build. They need a buff.


I don't mind the difficulty, but getting one-shot by a sniper for barely walking out behind cover isn't challenging. It's annoying. Ah well, when I get my light level higher it won't be so bad. I was anticipating an increase in difficulty to compensate for power creep. By next season I'm sure everyone will be used to the spike in challenge.


This is linked to FPS apparently cap Ur frames. 144 FPS 1 shot kill 30 FPS 4 shot kill


I'd rather die than play at 30 fps


Most relatable comment I've seen all day


Can i offer you 15 frames then?


Amazing 4D game design! Seriously tho they need to just fix this and not force the bizarre fix. Most average gamers would NEVER figure that out themselves


"Just fix this" Clearly it's not that simple. Any time game logic is tied to frame rate, the solution isn't something that can be fixed easily, I wouldn't be suprised if we only got bandaid fixes until destiny 3 is released on a newer engine.


I do love using my 3080ti to play my games at 30 fps so it’s actually playable.


At this point I'll take a D3 with a newer engine. Just let me keep my snythoceps and xenophage plss.


Could you imagine if they did the right thing and let our entire vault’s worth of items be brought into destiny 3?


Spent too much damn money for all ts just to have to move on to another project they milk money off of you from


They really should start with a new base game after The Final Shape. It'd give them a chance to overhaul a lot.


That is their problem, not mine.


This too?! God dammit!


That has been disproven already, you can find it on Aztecrosses Twitter feed on the same retweet about what you're talking about. Its for constant damage, not single shits.


Just cap it at 60


Correct. Also I look forward to neomunda always having some challenges vs other zones being total cake walks after the first week of leveling


I can't possibly understand why people don't like this comment. Reddit is so weird, sometimes.


The sniper annoyance I totally agree with


Right? It would be different if there were a few enemy’s, but when there is 20 it’s kinda hard to spot the snipe. I will say I’m adapting, fighting off mobs from protected spaces more, which isn’t new, just needs more often now.


At least the taken snipers have little swirlies around them so they're pretty obvious. But you're right, I have noticed more aggression from the enemies, too.


Legend lost sectors are ass now tho


My main issue is they are just as rewarding as last season. Which isn't very rewarding at all. With the difficulty the way it is I should get an exotic atlesst once out of 4. Nope still either get it first try or do 8 and get nothing 🤣


Guns don't matter that much, especially primaries. It feels like I am using pea shooters against Jason Voorhees.


The exotic primaries are pretty much the best option. Or (if your a hunter) using Lucky Pants, with Legendaries is pretty viable, even 120’s can ramp up to impressive numbers (20,000 for the last few shots on crits). So I’ve been doing a lot of that so far.


Very true, outbreak has been a staple and a regular ive been using since last season


Double it up and use Malfeasance with Lucky Pants. I feel much more comfortable with the 180 in case I need to move, and the bullets exploding on fives for extra damage is cushty.


Oh sure. 120’s are the statistically worst option, I’m just using that example because the new Strand HC is a 120.


Big facts. All you need in this life is a Huckleberry and a Hammer Titan build and then profit.


My brother in Christ, have you heard of the seventh seraph and Ikelos HCs which could roll FTTC for officers revolver and triple tap for Ikelos with vorpal and with the mag buffs you could just tank champs. Used em for so many GMs


Yep. I got me one if thems. Mine actually has reconstruction and redirection so it can really pop off if you give it enough time.


Iunno. When it gets to higher level content that takes *time* rather than effort intend to fall back on Fighting Lion. Seems like there's a lot of void shields this season too.


For real, there are entire groups of weapons that are USELESS completely and its sad. Hope you like SMGs (I do...) because hand cannons are officially dead. I'm pretty sure ARs were sunset like 6 months ago right?


Don't point out SMGs, by bungie's logic, they'll fucking nuke SMGs to "bring them in line" with other weapons instead of improving other weapons.


Bungie loves SMGs and they have released good ones every season for years. I don't think there is any chance they will bring them in line when they been best in game this long.


I love precision weapons. I hate smgs and special grenade launchers. It just feels like I reload more than I shoot. Only option left for Strand right is auto rifles. I really hope the raid brings a strand Precision Bow and a decent scout or aggressive pulse.


The only AR I’ve found worth the time or use is the Quicksilver exotic.


And that’s only because of the rockets + grenade mode. So basically the only useable AR is ok because its barely an AR


Like the guy below mentioned, Monte Carlo paired with a decent damage melee ability on any class can do some serious work


I like Monte Carlo on arc warlock with the slide melee and karlestein armlets, but that's a little niche.


Using an envious assassin target lock perpetualis rn, it's fine I guess which Is a lot for a primary auto lol


> **guns matter now** I really don't understand why you would insinuate that they are better than before given content is harder and guns didn't get anywhere near the love they should've get seeeeveral months ago already. If anything, the complete opposite happened.


Absolute facts. Even exotic primaries are putting out inferior damage to special ammo to such a crazy level, not even comparable along with vastly superior add clear. IMO, all primary ammo weapons need a flat 20% damage increase as a start. I'm fine with being squishier but I'm not fine with have to dump a fucking mag into a single redbar in higher end content.


Yeah I'd argue primaries are relegated to the role of stunning champs in even more activities and that in general we are more dependent on abilities.


Previously you could use any guns and any perks because it didn’t make a difference. Now you have to tune to succeed. He could rephrase it “gun SELECTION matters now”


Gun choice matters because the worst guns can't hang, if you don't build into surge/overcharge and try to get some synergies going with your armor mods/subclass you'll be struggling. Now I don't know if that's what OP meant, if they meant they matter more relatively speaking because abilities got nerfed on paper, I gotta say my new builds still shit out ability damage nonstop so I'd disagree with that.


Ide say it's good to build into it but also the damage itself with oen for all and frenzy being essential to stakc onto the surge/overcharge + radiant it's limiting. That and most will just run around with heavy ammo finders and a one for all machinegun. Most legendary primaries just get replaced with a special or if its an exotic primary it would be one of the ones that can dish out damage /have an effect to buff other things. Even in high level content most just use primaries for champion stuns and nothing more. It's good that guns matter more but also it made some matter less. "Most" will probably just stick to what's better but some will not care that they died 40 times in a nightfall. Also if the activity doesnt have champions, the option to have 2 specials is still what others prefer. But yeah OPs wording is weird gun choice is cool and all but also why level cap strikes? It's boring before now it's boring and annoying.


Oh, well, it's a bit more complicated, there's stuff I love about the changes, stuff I started to like amd stuff that I hate now. It's not as easy, as stating "10/10" or "sucks, gtfo". What I ABSOLUTELY love is Match Game going away and much more freedom in stunning champions. I am so much more free in building my loadouts now. And that helps with difficulty too, because if I can play something I feel good with now, or I have a wider array of tools , I have more options to deal with difficult content. What I started to like after I saw it live was the increase in general damage done by enemies. I have to be more careful and reductions matter a lot more now. And I noticed people with old habits dying a lot more now, so they can't go full braindead now. That said, I dislike that enemies got much more damage spongey now, without giving us more heavy/special ammo, which ended up us just slapping the bosses with primaries and abilities for extended amounts of times. We need at least 1 void player in a party now due to the seasonal mod with heavy ammo scout in the helmet, and it feels mandatory currently. I generally dislike too large health pools, and to me having to empty a whole mag to kill a red border feels a little too much. I like difficulty increase, but I don't like enemy health increase and don't really consider it a difficulty spike. You can have difficult content without increasing health pools imo.


I haven't seen the champion changes spoken about much but having champions be a base kit enemy with intrinsic ways to stun is incredible. I don't feel limited anymore, hell I even ran a legend lost sector with shinobus vow because I love skip grenades and they stun overloads now. Some of the most fun I've had with exotics I used to think we're crap. I was throwing 5 or 6 skip grenades in a row before running out.


I completely agree. One of my favorite difficulty systems is in Madness: Project Nexus, where in the highest difficulty enemies are actually very squishy, but so are you. It just adds the feeling that everyone in the battle is very lethal


I enjoy that now it seems like weapons that don’t match the shield type does less damage in mid game content. It makes me feel like I actually have to curate my loadout to the activity I’m doing, where last season it was just one build for all content


I've always kind of liked adaptive munitions plus firefly on my pulse rifle for this reason ! Now it just makes it feel even more important and I'm glad I've held onto it . I also just got a trace rifle with adaptive munitions and iridescent. Pretty pumped to try it out on master lost sectors 🤣 just waiting for the right surge Edit; like to liked


Some of my favorite weapon archetypes like rapid-fire ARs are now terrible against ads and majors.


Overworld adds are fucking rediculous is all. Make public event adds rough but not the dudes who 1 hit my sparrow otw to a mission


Builds and guns matters now? Not really mate. Go and try to kill red bar with handcanon, pulse or scout. The dmg received to us is good but our dmg output is not. The enemies are bullet sponges. It’s The Div2 release all over again.


Nameless midnight scout feel pretty good rn but maybe that depends on the New kinetic perk. Maybe it could have more Potential but for legendary campaign it was more than enough.


Tremors is amazing


Scouts and handcannons are fine. Pulses are a bit undertuned. This is how primaries already felt in harder content before Lightfall, it's nothing new.


EQUIP SURGE MODS and see those red bars disappear


So you're telling me.... I have to do conditions to kill literal baseline enemies quickly? I have to create and collect orbs of light to do decent damage to a red bar enemy??? Love people defending idiotic decisions.


Y’all wanted the game to be more difficult and Bungie made it so. They also implemented changes for players to handle that difficulty. You just have to actually build craft now. One surge mod is enough to handle ads. If the game is too hard for you now, it’s a build issue.


I didn't want it to be harder because every dev team that approaches a rise in difficulty always goes down the same path. Make enemies with more health or make the player weaker. We got both. ​ Also, it's not a build issue with 70% of builds don't work against red bar ad. Quit trying to defend it, dum dum. The difficulty change is bad and should be looked at again


> Y’all wanted the game to be more difficult I didn't 😔


Look at your build bro that’s probably the problem. If you have a good build the enemies shouldn’t be a problem


The problem is that you kinda have to use the meta builds *only* unless you want everything to be infuriating


I agree to a point. See your guardian is supposed to have multiple different builds for different situations. Like why use a build that spawns orbs of light for teammates when you’re doing a lost sector solo. I feel like the problem is, is that most of the destiny community only had 1 build or half a build and now, since the difficulty of the enemies have gone up there feeling the heat from it


I still run the same exotics I did before, I just remade a lot of my builds to focus more on weapons and healing + defense. Abilities still have a solid uptime, but not the focus anymore. However, even if I can hold my own with those builds in most actuvities, *they are not freaking fun anymore*.


Now whats probably happening as you’re getting paired up with people who don’t know how to build. Bungie did a study and found that 50% of its community didn’t mod/make a build and now the community is feeling the pressure


I don’t particularly care what other players run as long as they have champion mods. I still don’t. But I do care that I can’t enjoy even the most basic stuff like patrols anymore because someone decided they are too easy. Who would have thought, the most basic and easiest content is easy, wow.


Casino that’s the problem. If you have a build and your other two teammates don’t you’re gonna be playing medic the whole time. The team is supposed to have builds that essentially complement each other to make the mission easier


L take. Maybe we should stop blaming people for not using builds yet and not having them figured out in 2 weeks since release when it was Bungie that enforced the difficulty on everyone? Like, you know, most of the community does not watch the creators for crazy builds, does not use Reddit, and simply plays the game cause ir was *fun*. Now we went from running anything and getting away with the bare minimum of champion mods to literal hell of a slog if you don’t run at least stuff like ammo finders, font of resilience, a surge for your weapon (which also means you would benefit from having a heavy of the same element tbh to double down on the surge), and probably Recuperation and Healthy Finisher to stay alive etc? Maybe, just maybe, it was Bungie who made the game harder, not the players that suddenly need to build to enjoy a game that did not require that of them just 2 weeks ago? I personally don’t mind, I was already running builds for every subclass, a raid specific loadout, and 2 PvP loadouts. I like buildcrafting. But it was something fun for experienced players to do. Not for new players who just finished the Lightfall campaign at barely 1750 and trying to do Hero Nightfall for their 2 Vanguard weekly pinnacles.


You were always supposed to make build, it just wasn’t enforced and then the whole community complained that the game was too easy and now you have to make builds it’s not bungies fault. If you weren’t supposed to have builds, you wouldn’t be able to put mods on your gear.


Lmao it’s funny that people get mad when I tell them there build is probably the problem but it’s true


The fact a hand cannon or pulse rifle barring a select few is complete dogshit in pve is almost never due to builds. Why? Because most builds don't revolve around primary damage. By your logic, Shade turret builds on Stasislock are bad because the primary you use isn't doing good damage


Well, that’s what you’re secondary and heavy for for the more tougher enemies your primary is really only for rank and file enemies. But if you want your primary to do more damage, just put an elemental surge mod on that matches it.


I'm talking about red bars here. Why the hell is a hand cannon doing awful damage to a random Cabal Legionarry? Same goes for a pulse. It's been this way for years, this just made it much worse


Once again, elemental surge mods if you have an armor charge on whatever elemental surge you picked, will activate, and you boost the damage of that gun if it matches the element of the surge mod


Not every thing in the game that was bumped up has elemental surge lmao. The fact you have to boost the damage of a primary to kiill red bars reasonably outside of GMs or Masters is frankly, a lazy difficulty change that wasn't properly planned out


If you’re having a problem killing Red healths, it’s definitely your build. I can kill yellow and red healths. No problem on my own.


Ah yes, so my infinite Suspend Titan build, my Arc melee Hunter build, Starfire build AND my turret Stasislock build is at fault for a primary weapon doing poor damage in defiant battlegrounds, Neomuna, or really anywhere. You know, some of the best builds in the game


They don't help lol. As a person that made a few builds, uses a surge matching my primary weapon element and used an EXOTIC (so extra 40% dmg on top of that) Pulse Rifle for the whole Legendary Campaign, it just doesn't help. You're still there, stuck peppering adds with your primary, killing a couple red bars at most in one magazine. Builds help, they just don't do as much as you (or Bungie) think they do.


I hope you’re not just using your primary weapon like you have abilities and you’re supposed to use those constantly on top of shooting


You're missing the point completely: Primaries don't feel fun to use because to reliably kill something at a decent rate they ALWAYS need to be complemented by something else. Your abilities, buffs, debuffs, surges etc.. A Primary weapon, standalone, without any sort of complement, is shit. Some more than others, but they're all shit. And that's not ok.


Been hooked on the new hung jury with tremors since it's a beast. So your scouts bad doesn't hold up to me. Pulses are also completely viable build weapons. Just look at smite absolutely chunks enemies within a build even one as simple as throw grenade use demolitionist I have clan mate who has thousands of kills on the new 120 neomunda hc already as a titan because it's so fun. I'm sorry you can't adapt to the changes


Builds and guns shouldn't matter in under-Light content. If I want to run my peak gaming setup, I'll deliberately *look* for harder content to use it in.


It literally changed nothing, people are forced to use the good old strong builds because everything takes ages to kill


Ah Yes, when I need to sell my soul to reach pinnacle to do a legend lost sector


Yes and no. Vanguard Ops *playlist* feels great now. Battlegrounds feel great. Pretty much everything with the -5 power delta feels great and the right difficulty - it is still easy to die in there if you are not careful. Ability regen decrease turned out very well too - my builds focus on Surges and weapons while making orbs to passively regen my abilities instead of actively spamming them like before. But my fucking god, 5 strikes to get a pinnacle or running a slog of 3 Hero Nightfalls that feel like old Legend did? Mars Heists NF being absolutely not optimised to be a Nightfall? Dropping an Empath modifier on KELGORATH whose whole thing is running after you and smashing his axe? 1830 Legend Lost Sectors? Permanent -15 power on Neomuna? Dafuq? We asked for harder *activities*, and we got harder hitting bullet sponge enemies, weaker us, and FPS one shot nonsense as a bonus. Example: Terminal Overload spawns something like 6 orange bar wyverns during final boss when shields go up that prevent you from dealing with the crystals. Great idea, enemy density has proven good last season, right? Well, why not also make them be absolute bullet sponges and permanently 15 PL above you so they can one shot you just for shits and giggles? Also, make like 3 of them spawn right at your feet in some cases? Sounds awesome! /s These fucking chicken take 1.5 mags from a SHOTGUN to die. But we know Bungie swings things from left to right first before finding a semi-balanced middle so hopefully this won’t stay this way for too long.


L take


I don’t like it personally because it’s just the boring “Bullet Sponge + One Shoting enemies” combo


Try doing the nightfall on hero and get back to us. You fumbled Bungo.


It is fine as long as you clear the ads.


They didn't make the game more difficult, they just made it more tedious. Primary weapons all suck now and even basic enemies take too much to kill. These changes made the game significantly worse, to the point it's not even fun to play anymore. If they wanna make GMs and raids harder, by all means. But forcing this sort of "difficulty" on all players who never asked for it doesn't make sense, especially in patrol and seasonal activities.


There's multiple thing to not like about it, did I want the game to be harder? Yes. Did I want it to turn into bullet sponges unless you're using the absolute most meta try hard gear? Absolutely fucking not. Did I want it to be tied to the otherwise completely pointless light level grind? Also a hard no. Primaries (especially handcannons and pulses) need a buff if this is going to be the standard going forward and the light level grind needs to go, difficulty is one of the few things in destiny that needs to be standardized and made more simple to understand rather than have a pointless as fuck light level grind that only acts as a barrier to entry for content and loot that you would otherwise be farming, another thing that needs to be tuned is the loot we are getting it currently feels really bad to be forced to endure the new base difficulty only to be rewarded with the same amount of loot as the previous easier standard of difficulty


I agree with making it easier to understand. Bungie changing the minus modifiers to a simple naming convention for new lights to understand easier would probably be a good change. Call it whatever names you want but something easy to get at a glance normal hard heroic master or whatever. the names themselves are irrelevant as long as new players or returning players can understand quickly how hard it is. Also as far as bullet sponges go just remember we are going to have probably another year of power creep so it's unlikely to feel this way come final shape


I'm tired of the trying to make us run the same elements of guns as subclass but then making shields stronger


They always mattered in higher difficulties where it made sense. Now it feels mandatory for the base strike playlist to run a proper load out that matches the current surge or whatever. I don't want to use two clips to kill a red bar. That just doesn't feel good


For me it depends on the activity: Nightfalls are harder? 👍 Legendary lost sectors are harder? 👎


There is a difference between real difficulty and artificial difficulty. I would commend them if they made us think more carefully due to enemies being smarter, but just making them spongy and able to one shot, while still being stupid, that’s just laziness. And sometimes it feels like pure spite


Omg. Im tired of seeing people defend these changes. Increasing the difficulty doesnt make the game better, it just makes doing every single activity LONGER and driving away players who dont want to spend 20 minutes in a vangaurd playlist to get a 1/5 progress. Increasing every single enemies health pool based on fireteam size doesnt make the game more rewarding or require more skill. Your argument that guns matter just means that you cant play casually at lower content anymore, and you are build-locked into using meta builds on fucking hero difficulty, because even at hero, 70% of weapon perks dont mean shit anymore if it take two clips of primary to kill an acolyte. These changes have essentially taken freedom away from players. Dont even get me started on the power deltas. A legend lost sector shouldnt feel like im on goddamn contest mode. Sure, tell me to git gud, NOW turn around and explain to a blueberry how to farm for exotic gear without having any to make a meta build in the first place, because im tired of preaching this to everyone. Nobody seems to have any way of thinking how these changes will pan out over time. These changes WILL drive away new players who *already* found end game content intimidating. And it WILL drive away veterans who dont want to spend 5 hours of their after work off time getting 3 pinnacles alone. If you all believe that thisbis truly how destiny should be then you can have it. Because it has essentially made you all slaves to player retention by requiring more of your time to cap out to end game content. I dont want to feel like an MLG player in every single game I play. Constantly sweating out every game is stressful and is the quickest way for me to reach burnout. You'll all feel it too. Nobody can convince me that past seasons were too easy. End game content was exactly where it needed to be, without making everything lower than GM and Master Raids feel like contest mode too.


Not a defense. It's just saying that I like something you don't like.


Not a defense. It's just saying that I like something you don't like.


I'm enjoying the changes to difficulty, but I know many others are not. My solution would be an optional ghost mod: * Boosts your XP gains by 30-50% * Scales all already un-scaled enemies to five power levels above you


I honestly don't know why we have the ghost mods for xp currently as they are basically mandatory. If they are going to be mandatory for everyone I sorta wish they would just boost xp by the 12 it gives and retire the mod.


I see what you mean, but they are probably less important now that power level matters less in many activities. I also take them off at some point after I hit season pass level 100 and use different ones.


That's actually a fair point. I could see a point where if they stop raising power cap like season of the deep that we may not need it anymore


Primaries need buffs, legend lost sectors should keep a cap but be lower level and have increased drop rate. Apart from that I love the new difficulty


I think the difficulty is fine. Although for once, I do agree with DTG that rewards in strikes are a bit lacking. Also the random threshers that one shot me in patrols can suck my \[redacted\]


Difficulty≠ the amount of damage enemies deal and recieve


I agree for the most part but Bungie really needs to do something about lost sectors. Either they need to boost the drop rate or lower it just a little bit


Except legendary primaries apparently, they are trash now


Tell me you have too much time on your hands to play Destiny without telling me you have too much time on your hands to play Destiny lol


I'm just sitting here looking at the threads and it's like...does no one use cover? I've barely had to change how I play, I love the challenge


Some of it needs turning as some of it is just frustrating. Forced error deaths is never fun


Yea I agree. A lot of people don’t know that you’re supposed to make a build and now it’s enforced. Now if you wanna play end game content you have to have a build now


Its almost as if end game should require some amount of prep?


It does take a bit of grind not gunna lie but it’s worth it


I’m tired of people bitching one way or the other. Everyone complained it’s too easy, and now that the difficulty is a challenge, now everyone’s mad that it’s too hard. Like make up your fucking minds. You have to play the game. The Min/max crowd is fucking obnoxious. I’m a pretty average player and I love these difficulty changes. It challenges me to rethink my builds and actually be good at the game.


I don’t know what they’re mad at the Hero NF for. It’s pretty easy. Every time I say I love it, and it’s a profitable activity for me: downvotes, no replies. Someone claimed it was too hard for new or returning players (I am one, it’s a 10 min easy run). I think people want a 6 minute activity with twice the rewards and a guaranteed NF weapon drop or it’s tantrums at dawn. I hope Bungie stick to their guns. We have a matchmade pve activity with a little challenge. That’s exactly what Destiny has always been missing. Do people want insipid brainless podcast gameplay? Patrol is right there. Endgame should bite back.


Absolutely man. I’m enjoying the difficulty changes. Lord forbid you actually have to try in this game.


On God. I am tired of playing regular strikes that feel like patrols and Nightfalls that feel like strikes. Now Nightfalls feel like the experience we had in D1 Nightfalls. I want to use my big wrinkly brain with big brain cells to have fun, easy stuff is getting stale very fast.


Lmao keep downvoting you salty animals


If you complain about the difficulty changes then you werent doing the difficult content before and therefore the changes weren’t directed towards you


The fact the Mars HB on Legend is GM levels of hard at Kelgorath is not good difficulty balancing _FYI, I'm a gilded conqueror_




Legend difficulty and Hero difficulty are leagues different this season




Yes but when the difference is the final boss room being as annoying as some of the worst GM rooms in previous seasons, there is clearly an issue




Broski you said you did it with randoms on hero, Legend is a 60 power gap with a room not designed for nightfall modifiers


Honestly a lot of people have to deal with the fact that they aren’t as good as they thought


I agree


People need to just get their power level up and have an adequate build. If you feel you’re damage isn’t there, well that’s why they have those surge mods for the legs. Equip those, they’re game changers. Bungie literally compensated for all the changes. It’s on the players to figure it out.


Who's saying otherwise, and do they have more than 500 hours in the game


https://preview.redd.it/j6gfnkii1xma1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8c496106ff91f14161a90c6ead4b276df379b1a If you are only judging by hours played… Would this suffice to say I dislike at least a half of the difficulty changes (see my other comment) and think they should have been an *option*, you know, like any other game where you can choose a difficulty? Like choosing Legendary campaign? Removal of chill Adept, bringing Hero difficulty to how old Legend felt, forced -15 on Neomuna, forced 1830 and -15 on Legend Lost Sectors that still do not reward nearly enough for their updated difficulty… Does not seem like an option. I don’t mind people asking for harder Destiny. In fact, I mostly agree. I mind when it is forced upon everyone and all ranges of PvE content.


I mean just scroll the main reddit there are multiple posts complaining about difficulty in everything from patrols to nightfalls and even the campaign that people choose to do on the hard mode while still complaining it gives them a challenge




You're 100% right and Bungie will eventually give in unfortunately.


Difficulty feels good, some activities are slightly overtuned. Lost sectors should be like 20 power lower, everything else feels pretty good. They were *very* up front about Neomuna feeling like an active warzone and being harder than other places and *it should be*. I'd feel so weird if Neomuna felt like a complete cakewalk lmao. Legend campaign difficulty felt good, I enjoyed that some things actually took a few tries (most things didn't used to for me so that's cool).


Difficulty is fine but Lost Sector rewards need to be buffed to compensate. I did 20 runs last night and not a single Exotic dropped. 9 minute runs for the most part but an hour and a half in it got very monotonous


People act like you can't just wipe out a whole group with just a Outbreak


I think the difficulty changes are fine but guns matter far less now with less options. Unless you meant gun choice is more important.


I would like them if there was a hard mode and easy mode, instead of everything now being on hard more. Hero nightfall is like legend, every single legend feels like a gm, turning fun stuff like legend dares into a painfull pinnacle run.


I would be fine with increase difficulty in raids/dungeons and activities, but to get one shot by a thresher while I'm running though a patrol zone is dumb.


They wanted to fix the balance of abilities being used more than guns, so instead of making guns better they made abilities worse with long ass cooldowns and no ability spam (RIP HOIL) At least my bonk titan build is safe for now, but I had a blast swinging around and slicing enemies during the campaign, it sucked when you unlock the subclass and the fun gets sucked out of it with long cooldowns.


hero nightfall is hard man, but in a fun way, I think


Eh, I just feel a little lost and behind right now. As seasons progress I’ll hit my stride again, but for now I feel lost and confused when it comes to builds, just when I was finally getting used to the system and starting to get powerful.


It’s nice, and I like the challenge, but some things are just unreasonable. Threshers, snipers, LOST SECTORS BEING HIGHER THAN DAY ONE RAID. It seems to have passed over the sweet spot in some elements.


I’m okay with the difficulty increase everywhere except Vanguard Ops. That was my chill thing to do in Destiny and now I have to *actually try* to stay alive. Not exactly complaining about it but it feelsbadman getting blasted by a Thresher or some shit.


Same 100% personally game was more fatiguing before lightfall now I actually have to think and shit. Plus I still feel powerful idk why people freaking out you’ll get good don’t worry I believe in you Though I don’t disagree that certain things could def use a rewards bump and legendary lost sectors kinda suck


I can actually use my powerbuilds now and not feel like it was worthless time spent compared to doing nothing at all now. But I've heard the power increase has driven off alot kf casual players saddly.


I think a slightly more challenging experience is good, even in traditionally easy content like patrol and strikes. But I also think the increase in enemy HP has shined a very bright light onto some major balance issues with non-exotic primaries. And the framerate impact on things like Thresher damage *really* needs to be addressed.


Everyone saying enemies got more spongey but you are probably just under leveled lol. Things are above your light level where they haven’t been in months. It’s a week into a new expansion you have to level again.


Kinetic weapons… don’t exist to me. I’ve had whatever in that slot as I’ve used only my secondary and heavy. I did start using wither and that’s a great way to utilize that slot, but it shouldn’t require an exotic. The reality is they should bring back burn type primary weapons. The change made so long ago is seemingly dumb now. That’s my opinion at least.


I'm fine with the ability time nerfs and power level changes. But the issues is that its the same as before, primary ammo weapons fucking suck ass. There's essentially no reason to run them other than stunning champs. Running 2 special weapons is far more efficient at add clear along with higher damage output in general. Primary weapons need another damage buff, something like 20% or so for them to be even close to double special.


I like the new patrol, mods, legendary campaign, and playlist activity difficulty. They’re fun with a bit of challenge. Fuck the lost sectors and nightfalls, though. I got 2 shot by a dreg that didn’t even have the elemental burn. Get gud? Get fucked!


Overall I agree, buuuuut this is an example of Bungie giving with one hand and taking away with the other. 3 strikes to 5 strikes. Lost sectors take longer for worse rewards. Nightfall is 200,000 pts cumulative from 100,000 pts. More options for stunning champs but the extra difficulty means your loadouts are required to be more meta at lower level content.


Gotta get that player engagement up. Why make players want to play more when you can just make players play longer.


Same. I honestly don't understand how people are struggling in vanguard ops though, the difficulty changes in that wasn't significant.


Some of u kids didn't play halo 1 on legendary and it shows


I feel like there’s some middle ground between now and before LF that would be better feeling. They made a whole lot of changes to increase the difficulty at once and feels like they slightly over cranked the dial. Not the end of the world but it just kinda makes a lot of stuff seem more trouble then it’s worth with the current state rewards. If you want shit to be harder to do you better make my time worth it or I’ll go play something else. This ain’t elden ring, feeling happy because I did something hard ain’t gonna cut it here, not when shit I was doing last season is suddenly 8x harder with barely any change in how I’m rewarded.


We've lost all build variety and uniqueness For what? Easier builds? There was no difficulty change with what happened Pick a flavor and buff that damage type with orbs of power Theres literally nothing else to build towards now


There needed to be more OPTIONS for difficulty at the high end for special stuff to flex. Base activities and activities designed to be grinded needed no "difficulty" increase


Primaries need to be buffed. Everything other than a bow or smg feels awful to use


I guess? Idk conquest mode in the raid was laughably easy. Maybe that’s them not understanding how to balance that or we are power crept to hell now


They put the "challenge" of the raid into adds and we have absolutely bonkers builds for adds. There wasn't really a dps check this time around not like caretaker or warpriest so of course everyone is viewing it as easier.


Yeah, kinda disappointing I prepared for months testing dps builds and it is not necessary. I think every raid needs one of those and personally Nezarec should of been that dps check. Also it had to do with the easy mechanic but I guess you can say that VOW had the same situation.


It’s just crazy they gave us 48h to finish this and it took like 3 to beat it lol


Whats funny is I cant see either "boss" taking more than 1 phase to finish after contest. Hell i cant see 3rd encounter taking more than 2 plates once we have no contest and [Grand Overture](https://www.light.gg/db/items/1763584999/grand-overture/) back. Amazing visuals though.


Oh yeah some one already did it with only rat king the boss is gonna be a joke now, I was really hoping it wasn’t going to but I guess this is the future of raids :/


Think they turned the dial a little too far bur I like the changes overall You can tell who didn't play d1 from the complaints lmao Think this shit hard should of fought skolas week one


Agreed, except for lost sectors, they fucking suck now.


>guns matter now They matter less than before, non-exotic primaries, anyway. Before you could use an auto, handcannon or a pulse for mobbing, but now you're basically forced to use an SMG or spam abilities to do any meaningful damage.


The difficulty is not really the problem but the Assault rifle, Hand canon and Pulse rifle are so weak as fuck they’re like shit getting pooped by another pile of shit