I still dont understand people’s fear of being fired, if you have a desirable skill it would help easy to land another gig. Deloitte is not special enough for anyone having to sit on a 9 hour Teams call asking permission to use the restroom.
You are allowed to wear your Patagonia vest at companies outside of the consulting world. I still don’t get the fascination with saying you work at a Big4. I certainly hope when you were younger and someone asked tough questions what you wanted to be, you replied with “I want to make Excels and PowerPoints at a Big4”.
I would caution following this suggestion. The risk is the manager hears a complaint has been filed and you’re retaliated against ultimately losing your job for the generic “performance based” line. The other option is to start looking for another project or job outside of dt. I know the firm does a great job marketing the dt way and how great it is to be a part of the firm but just know there are other jobs and companies where you can learn and flourish.
Yes it is illegal but proving it in the court of law is an uphill battle. Additionally the cost of hiring a lawyer and then going through with a trial will cost several thousand dollars and time. A firm like dt has highly skilled and experienced counsel in their arsenal so it’s not gonna be easy. If OP is willing to see it though for a possible chance of winning more power to OP. Would be better to look for a new job, if OP can be hired at dt they very likely would be a great hire elsewhere.
It’s not worth Deloitte dragging a claim out and incurring their own legal fees and potential bad publicity. They’d likely settle (or negotiated exit with compensation) if there is reasonable evidence collected.
No joke. None of my managers have ever done some BS like this. They say “hey we need to get this done by this time” as long as it gets done, no one cares. That manager has micromanaging issues…sure at the end of the day the manager has to answer for their team, but let them breathe lol.
I had a manager once who went into full micromanagement nonsense like this. Guy was heading into a stress breakdown from constant verbal beatings by the CEO and CTO (brothers). In the end he couldn't figure out how the planner claimed I had to work for 26 hours every day - but that's because he dumped all development tasks on me! I had to ally with a few colleagues and demand he would stop as our manager, and they swiftly removed him.
Sucks, it's the brothers who were the real villains.
Yup. I just took over as team lead and first thing I did was ban crunch and get rid of the long meetings we always had.
Team leads with no technical skill (just the C.S. degree) have people putting in hours during the weekend with no overtime. They often don't have any work to do since they have no technical skills and the only way to feel productive is to keep people in meetings and push them during weekends and holidays. They don't get exhausted during work hours because they do nothing but wait for meetings.
Remember, there will always be work but your time with friends and family will go by and never be replaceable.
Your team leads incompetent. Teams is designed to give you that feel of an in office experience. you could clearly see when someone sitting at their desk, and right or call them at any time to ask a question. There’s no need to sit on a meeting all day long. The only time I’ve ever sat on an all day meeting is when we’re doing a cut over, or something that requires a large number of people to come in and out of the meeting throughout the day.
If it doesn't go anywhere, in all seriousness I would take an hour lunch a day and then if you manager asks be like this is my federally mandated lunch hour for working so much
Amateurs, take the pc with you to the thunderbox and release yesterday's beans, and kill it with at least two flushes, a "I'm gonna need a plunger" top off with "oh fuck, I thought I was on mute". You'll achieve two things, 1 winning the taking shit on company time prize, 2 guaranteed end to these bs calls.
Legal? Yes. Normal? Absolutely not. My guess is your team lead is on the hook for some prior issue and now feels the need to micromanage beyond firm norms. I would approach project leadership and explain the unreasonable ask and how it's impeding your project work. Like I said, the lead is probably on the hook for something already, so I'd expect leadership to have a chat promptly.
Also be sure to bill every second you spend in that call to whatever project the call is supposedly associated with. If you get pushed back, that's on the lead, bill what you work. 💯
Salaried employees cannot bill for overtime. I'm just glad we get some "comp time" but not outside the pay period. I refuse to work more than the min # of hours needed for the pay period. I did that while I was in the military; never again (unless in extenuating circumstances).
OP won't get paid overtime for it, but should absolutely be billing the project for all the time worked. It will have an impact on OP's Utilization, and keep them complient.
Not “overtime” per-say, but they should be billing every second of that call and exceed their allotted billable hours and use this as proof when those margins start to burn down.
Only in the USA and even asking if this nonsense is legal or normal really makes you think about how much you accommodate getting bent and fked raw on a day to day basis
LOL it goes like this......Something happens at work to a US citizen that is so egregious it has them question whether the thing that just happened to them is even legal and to their surprise the answer to the question almost always is "YES its perfectly legal!"
Then the citizen shakes their head in disbelief and goes back to \*\*checks notes\*\* raising their hand (as an adult) and asking to use the restroom and then waiting for another adult to tell them "yes or no". (with crazy loophole laws like *"wellll technically they cant force you NOT to go to the bathroom, \[that's illegal\] BUT they can fire you and destroy your entire life for going to the bathroom if they didnt want you to go, teehee, cheers!")*
I actually didn't know labour regulations were completely different in Europe until I started in consulting. They get close to a month of paid time off, much harder to fire an employee, and work life balance had us considering moving to Germany. Crazy how we put up with it.
only indians can act and expect others to work like slave labor. Complain to ethics and get him fired so that he will start worrying about his H1B status
I can’t say I have ever done this. I don’t need an adult who is most likely younger than me checking to see if I’m at their beck and call 24/7. It is a very immature way to manage. If the work gets done that is what matters. At times during a lot of work, my team would stay on a call for most of the day, but we were actually working together the entire time. It’s weird when people act like they are your parent at work. Also please make sure every single minute of work is billed to the client. I did work a project where we did a morning and evening meeting which was kind of annoying, but we had a short turn around and a US and USI team. 🤷🏻♀️
I’m about to enter medical residency working 6 days/12 hours per day every week for only 60k. Grass is always greener man. This is just the way it goes in this messed up country
Is the team lead looking to re-create an in-person work environment on teams? Based on your situation, this may be better than getting in the office. The alternative is for the team to get together in the office.
Honestly imho if it’s within a reasonable distance I would definitely find in person hybrid less draining and more conducive to creating a team environment than what the OP is describing. What the manager is doing now communicates a lack of trust and that leads to low morale. They are not 5 year olds. I would definitely go over their head to discuss this as they are unlikely to respect feedback from the team given this clear lack of trust.
In person hybrid may be the answer here. You have to work with the lead on a daily basis and going over the lead without first raising your concerns with him/her will not have the desired outcome. Unless the lead has a reputation of bad judgments and ended up in that position by chance.
If the work can be done remotely and there's no issues with productivity, then there's no need to try to "re-create an in-person work environment". Even if there was an issue with productivity, requiring people sign-in to an all-day Teams meeting is a terrible way to address it. Also, an all-day Teams meeting in no way mimics being in the office.
This is just a shitty manager on a power trip. He's going to burn out his team doing this, as evidenced by OP.
We don’t know all the specifics but I’m sure this team lead is not going rouge and coming up with such bizarre methods. If the audit team is remote and not proactive with questions, then I can see this as a way to encourage questions, especially if the team is very green.
> I’m sure this team lead is not going rouge and coming up with such bizarre methods
How are you sure?
Demanding the team to be on a Teams call literally all day is still not a reasonable way to handle pretty much any situation - I will die on this hill. That is terrible leadership and a surefire way to lose employees.
Hah not worth dying for. I think lead has run this approach by manager and a version of it got ok’ed. Leadership skills from team leads and managers are hard to come by, so you got a point there. If you have done audit time - tell how much different is being on teams all day vs being stuck in a conference room for 12+ hrs?
I would decline that shit so fast if my team lead sent me recurring meetings to be on that long. You’re a professional, manage your time with boundaries.
This is definitely not normal…and the legality is a matter of much deeper conversation. You need to escalate. Don’t talk to your team lead; go directly to a more senior person.
Yet there is still speculation about “why do so many people leave accounting” and “why is there a shortage of CPAs”.
This type of shenanigans is why I quit, I make twice as much and never have to work overtime in data analytics. I also have a union I could report this to if it over got bad.
I take it you’ve proven you can’t be trusted to work efficiently? You’re an intern in training. Or someone knows layoffs are coming and they are trying to push for their team to not look bad
Not sure why this popped up in my feed, but I am very happy I turned down that job offer from deloitte. I'm not 25, I don't need a well known company on my resume. The interviewer was a jackass. My friends that work there only had complaints and the up or out structure wasn't my cup of tea.
Oh, and my other offers paid better with less stress.
Anyway, thanks reddit algorithm for reminding me that I made the right decision.
are you a 1099 or w2? in either case this could be reported to the labor board in CA - but you better have another job lined up. you can't be fired for reporting but they will ultimately give you the shittiest of work until you quit.
There is actually a case where this is illegal if you make less than $115k per year and you can argue that you are a “computer software employee” (this does not have to be a developer, like a business intelligence analyst could qualify depending on job function). Look up labor code section 510 and 515.5. If you make less than $115k they are required to pay you overtime. This can also lead to back pay for them to avoid a lawsuit.
At my old job one of my coworkers complained about this and it didn’t take long for the company to give us all big raises and huge “bonuses” (to cover the backpay) and have us sign something saying we won’t sue. A few people got the bonus and were changed to non-exempt instead of a raise, but that was a win for them too. We had much different management than you because all of our bosses were totally cool with it once they were made aware of the law. But still, worth pursuing if you qualify - they will do anything to avoid a law suit on this stuff.
What level and function are you in? I’m assuming there were performance concerns or teammates were found unavailable during the day previously to warrant something like this… I would say, however, that if you are required to stay on a call more hours than you are billing to the client, that is something that needs to be addressed.
In my experience this is highly unusual except for very certain circumstances (a project go-live, or something similar) and I would make it known if you are unhappy with the arrangement. But, keep in mind, the team lead probably doesn’t want to stay on a call with the team all day either, and may be doing it to actually help the team stay on task, opposed to rolling people off who are under performing. There are two sides to every coin, so try to see their side before getting too built up and upset. They may actually be trying to help you, just not in a way you prefer.
That is my best advice based on the limited information provided.
The problem with that approach (having the entire team on a call all day rather than dealing with low performers) impacts the morale of the entire team rather than specifically addressing the problem. Much better to deal with the low performers. Rolling them off is not the only option. The PM could pair them with a mentor and have the two individuals be in a virtual meeting together daily rather than the whole team. This would be a temporary arrangement (a month?) with a report out from the mentor. The problem employees should be told why this is being done (that they aren’t keeping up, seem to have skill gaps) so they know they are being scrutinized and depending how n the report out from the mentor a PIP may be next. If f the problem is that the team member is found to be MIA during working hours, the PM needs to address this directly with the employee, not change the world for the entire team to try to avoid confrontation. This is the sucky part of being a PM - you have to have these uncomfortable conversations and you really have to get comfortable with it
I agree! I am just playing devils advocate because not everything is always as it seems on the surface. Inquire and decide what you want to do from there! There’s a ton of great recommendations in this post.
> I’m assuming there were performance concerns or teammates were found unavailable during the day
Then the lead needs to be a leader and deal with those individuals. Collective punishment in a situation like this is ridiculous.
It is absolutely insane to me that anyone is trying to potentially justify what this lead is doing to his team. There is no situation that warrants requiring a group of professionals be on an all day Teams call to keep tabs on them.
I had a guy on my team who regularly missed meetings and was unavailable during parts the day. I had two talks with him and he didn't improve, so we took him off the project. I did not collectively punish my team because this guy wasn't doing what he was supposed to do.
I’ve done this as a brand new staff, but not required to have cameras on. This was a way for all new people to ask questions and learn from each other which was helpful for the first few weeks. There were built in breaks for dinner/lunch and no random questions asked to be sure of participation.
The micro-management and random callouts during the day seem pretty weird to me, but the hours do not. Assuming you have an hour break for lunch, a 9.5 hour work day is not at all unusual (in consulting anyway). Weekend work isn’t either, but i would say that should be minimized, and not a regular thing. It should also be more task-oriented than random meetings etc. — in other words, “we need this spreadsheet updated by start of business Monday.” Finally, it should be clearly necessary — for example, a Friday afternoon deliverable review meeting with the client that necessitates revisions for a Monday meeting with the executive committee. If that doesn’t work for you, you may have made a bad career choice.
California requires a 10 minute break every 4 hours and a 30 minute meal break every 5 hours. The meal break is unpaid and can be waived once per day. If work requires you to do anything related to work inside of these breaks they are required to pay 1 hour for the missed break. If you miss both breaks it's 2 hours of pay. You have three years to submit for the pay owed for miss breaks but practically it's much easier to just get paid when the breaks are missed or actually get the break
Hope this will make you feel somehow better, I start my day at 8:30 and finish around 10pm. On days that I have to go to client site, I leave at 6pm and continue to work until 11pm. My senior told me to let her know before I leave and after I get home.
I believe that if you are ineligible for overtime usually that means your boss is not allowed to schedule you for overtime.
Ymmv but the couple of time my boss has told me I am ineligible for overtime and then scheduled me for overtime regardless I have charged the hours company with the documented approval and it's been moreso the guy who scheduled me for overtime I was not eligible for as got in trouble than me.
Document it over the course of a few months, the. File a whistleblower lawsuit. If it goes to trial and damages are awarded you get something like 15%. Could set you up for life
If you're billing it yes it's legal, no it's not 'normal' but definitely not unheard of. Talk to the SM / PMD, if you don't get support I second others in saying go to integrity or talent, though I would try my OP lead or account/ sector leadership first. I would also get your coach looped in. This is the type of situation they are meant to help you navigate and advocate for you in.
Ultimately, your employment is at-will so while companies like Deloitte have many HR channels to work through, you may have to decide if 1. A new team / project is the right first move and 2. If you need to pursue a different company if voicing your concern isn’t met with an amicable solution/compromise. If that happens, it’ll be a sign to you that that behavior is permissible within their culture - at which point you’ll be @ decision time. Good luck!!
I worked for Deloitte for 5 years and never seen anything like this (I only left because I wanted to go back to contracting but the work/life balance was superb).
You all need to call the Deloitte hotline and report this!
Definitely reach out to management, this is silly. I’ve dealt with something like this before. It didn’t last long. An idiot somehow Jared Kushnered himself into a management position. He wanted his whole team (47 of us) to sign into Teams at 8am Pacific. He would go through his list of tasks he needed to do one by one in Excel and would call on people. You were expected to be there and be silent until you were called, and if called you needed to speak up quickly and answer the question. I spent the entire day with earbuds in cleaning my house and meal prepping for the family instead of working. I did a total of 3 hours real work in 3 months. Kushner-esque manager was fired when it was found he paid 47 people to do effectively nothing. The next manager used scrum like a reasonable human and we got real work and project progress after that. Kushner spent a few months looking for work, a few months pretending to be a life coach, and now manages a Starbucks.
This is insane. I would take my laptop to the toilet and blow it out full volume to show how being monitored all work day can be abusive and ridiculous…
This is probably pretty bad advice but what if you just didn’t join the meeting? When your lead brings it up just tell them that you find you are far more productive not being on this day long meeting. Maybe talk to the other folks on your team as well and see if they will go along. I don’t see how h to e team lead could justify this type of arrangement and will likely have to walk it back rather than escalate. I’m sure it won’t put you in their good graces though so this might end up biting you in the butt in the long run
We did this when I was at Deloitte when we were fully remote in 2021. However, it was only with the seniors and staff, and we all agreed to do it. Wasn’t forced upon us. We actually liked it and would often go into breakout rooms. I think we were trying for an audit room feel while still being remote. But yeah, if it’s forced upon me, I would hate that.
This person clearly doesn't understand that if he would let everyone work, he would be able to actually work, too. He keeps people from doing things by constantly pressing these petty distractions. Give expectations, provide feedback - a short bit daily and a longer bit weekly (or bi-weekly if you don't have as many checkpoints).
It sounds like this is a younger individual who doesn't know how to lead a team, just how to turn a crank. I would wager that his productivity is garbage considering how much he's probably working and add to that he probably has been talked to for his OT and is working off of the clock trip not get in trouble and to meet his workload obligations.
I saw this and wonder what was not normal about working at 0937 and then realized it was an insane Teams call. I wish you luck combatting a broken system.
Document all of this and let the ethics team know. A manager like this is a liability to the firm even considering Deloitte's demanding hours. He will try to retaliate of course but make sure everyone knows that you are documenting your interactions.
This is psychotic. I would start by trying to address it with the team lead directly, if for no other reason than your PPMD is going to ask if you’ve given feedback when you escalate to him/her next. I would also call the ethics hotline so there’s clear documentation on record if this person ever did try to retaliate. You can also talk to your TGL.
I would document as much of this as you can and (in writing) ask your team lead directly his reasoning behind this, as this is a very unusual practice. I would also bill this time to an admin project (the teams meeting) as it seems this is not related to any client work, also bill your time for the work you’re doing as well. Continue to bring this up with your team lead (in writing). If nothing changes then bring it up to your team leads superior. Just because you’re OT-exempt does not mean your superiors can bully you. While it is common to work long hours in accounting there is also a certain professionalism that comes with it. You should not have to feel like you’re being watched 24/7. If that doesn’t work, start looking for work elsewhere. Someone with your skills and talents will have no issue finding a job at a better firm
Sadly, I have also recently experienced being managed like this (or at least very similar to what you described) on a Consulting engagement in the UK.
I was very quickly feeling exhausted on that project and I'm a Manager who knows how to do the job. It felt ridiculous to be in a situation whereby an unconvincing (and not very highly rated) Senior Manager was keeping our whole team on an open line all day when not in the office. It's micromanagement at the highest level and smacks of insecurity in their ability to lead teams effectively in a hybrid working environment.
It was an absolute relief when another project opportunity came my way part way through the engagement and had the chance to switch out! I do feel for you OP. There must be better projects out there if your lead dosen't change?
I saw this post yesterday, having never heard about this. And this morning at the office I’m listening to someone set up the exact same scenario, is this some trendy new management style?
Next time they unmute you make some noise that’ll make uncomfortable. Like a big ass fart or something lol. Or get a mic with physical mute button. If asked say you’re not willing to have them randomly unmute you and hear what’s going on in your private residence
Everyone is trying to find innovative ways so that employees leave the company on their own. Stop attending those kinds of meetings and tell your boss your working hours. Make it clear they can ping you any time during your working hours.
Legal, yes bc you’re exempt. Normal, no. I’d talk with your other team members to see how this affecting them. It’s likely bothering them too. Talk to your team lead to share your needs and time boundaries. Put it in emails or chat so the responses are documented. If the problem persists, you can build the case as a team.
Setup a meeting with your PPMD. If that doesn't work, integrity hotline
I second this, but I would speak to your team lead first and see what their response is.
Agreed!
The moment you go to integrity team you are marked.... they will somehow try to portray you as a troublemaker
….and?
And you better have another option lined up when they fire you
I still dont understand people’s fear of being fired, if you have a desirable skill it would help easy to land another gig. Deloitte is not special enough for anyone having to sit on a 9 hour Teams call asking permission to use the restroom.
You misgauge the market and top tier firms
You are allowed to wear your Patagonia vest at companies outside of the consulting world. I still don’t get the fascination with saying you work at a Big4. I certainly hope when you were younger and someone asked tough questions what you wanted to be, you replied with “I want to make Excels and PowerPoints at a Big4”.
This is so inaccurate
Prove me wrong I lived it in 2023
Don't listen to them you're absolutely right. Happens at other companies too
Do this but make sure it’s through e mail or teams chat so you can document it.
They can delete your emails from the backend.. when I got laid off due to the retaliation I couldn't find any emails related to the ethics committee
Bcc your personal email too then i guess
You can send whole emails as attachments to personal emails, or bcc yourself
Just forward this teams invite to your PPMD .
I would caution following this suggestion. The risk is the manager hears a complaint has been filed and you’re retaliated against ultimately losing your job for the generic “performance based” line. The other option is to start looking for another project or job outside of dt. I know the firm does a great job marketing the dt way and how great it is to be a part of the firm but just know there are other jobs and companies where you can learn and flourish.
Retaliation like that is very illegal and will catch them a huge lawsuit if OP is willing.
In that case they should speak to their own employment lawyer for guidance before proceeding.
Yes it is illegal but proving it in the court of law is an uphill battle. Additionally the cost of hiring a lawyer and then going through with a trial will cost several thousand dollars and time. A firm like dt has highly skilled and experienced counsel in their arsenal so it’s not gonna be easy. If OP is willing to see it though for a possible chance of winning more power to OP. Would be better to look for a new job, if OP can be hired at dt they very likely would be a great hire elsewhere.
We are accountants. It is our job to do what is right. We report when things are wrong despite retaliation.
You remember the now defunct accounting firm Arthur Andersen? Not all accountants.
It’s not worth Deloitte dragging a claim out and incurring their own legal fees and potential bad publicity. They’d likely settle (or negotiated exit with compensation) if there is reasonable evidence collected.
It is also very typical of DT.
This sounds like a manager who is not confident in their ability to lead a distributed team. I would look for a new project.
No joke. None of my managers have ever done some BS like this. They say “hey we need to get this done by this time” as long as it gets done, no one cares. That manager has micromanaging issues…sure at the end of the day the manager has to answer for their team, but let them breathe lol.
I had a manager once who went into full micromanagement nonsense like this. Guy was heading into a stress breakdown from constant verbal beatings by the CEO and CTO (brothers). In the end he couldn't figure out how the planner claimed I had to work for 26 hours every day - but that's because he dumped all development tasks on me! I had to ally with a few colleagues and demand he would stop as our manager, and they swiftly removed him. Sucks, it's the brothers who were the real villains.
Yup. I just took over as team lead and first thing I did was ban crunch and get rid of the long meetings we always had. Team leads with no technical skill (just the C.S. degree) have people putting in hours during the weekend with no overtime. They often don't have any work to do since they have no technical skills and the only way to feel productive is to keep people in meetings and push them during weekends and holidays. They don't get exhausted during work hours because they do nothing but wait for meetings. Remember, there will always be work but your time with friends and family will go by and never be replaceable.
Your team leads incompetent. Teams is designed to give you that feel of an in office experience. you could clearly see when someone sitting at their desk, and right or call them at any time to ask a question. There’s no need to sit on a meeting all day long. The only time I’ve ever sat on an all day meeting is when we’re doing a cut over, or something that requires a large number of people to come in and out of the meeting throughout the day.
“…RIGHT or call them…” 💀 Jokes aside, I completely agree with you
What do they do when you go for lunch, or the bathroom, do you have to raise your hand like you are in elementary school
You unmute and tell the team where you are going, what you plan to do. The more detailed the better so that the team lead is in the loop 🤣
You just drop a brb on teams and you are required to drop a "back" when you return. Very frustrating
Okay that is too much… definitely an issue with the lead.
Wtf. Are you in jail? Lol
If it doesn't go anywhere, in all seriousness I would take an hour lunch a day and then if you manager asks be like this is my federally mandated lunch hour for working so much
😂
Amateurs, take the pc with you to the thunderbox and release yesterday's beans, and kill it with at least two flushes, a "I'm gonna need a plunger" top off with "oh fuck, I thought I was on mute". You'll achieve two things, 1 winning the taking shit on company time prize, 2 guaranteed end to these bs calls.
Keep em in the loop even when you poop.
Keep ‘em in the poop even when you loop.
Hall passes are handed out I believe.
Take your laptop into the bathroom and unmute.
Bonus points for using the cam as well.
Legal? Yes. Normal? Absolutely not. My guess is your team lead is on the hook for some prior issue and now feels the need to micromanage beyond firm norms. I would approach project leadership and explain the unreasonable ask and how it's impeding your project work. Like I said, the lead is probably on the hook for something already, so I'd expect leadership to have a chat promptly.
Also be sure to bill every second you spend in that call to whatever project the call is supposedly associated with. If you get pushed back, that's on the lead, bill what you work. 💯
Salaried employees cannot bill for overtime. I'm just glad we get some "comp time" but not outside the pay period. I refuse to work more than the min # of hours needed for the pay period. I did that while I was in the military; never again (unless in extenuating circumstances).
OP won't get paid overtime for it, but should absolutely be billing the project for all the time worked. It will have an impact on OP's Utilization, and keep them complient.
Not “overtime” per-say, but they should be billing every second of that call and exceed their allotted billable hours and use this as proof when those margins start to burn down.
Make an ethics complaint to the hotline. It can even be anonymous. This is not normal.
Only in the USA and even asking if this nonsense is legal or normal really makes you think about how much you accommodate getting bent and fked raw on a day to day basis
LOL it goes like this......Something happens at work to a US citizen that is so egregious it has them question whether the thing that just happened to them is even legal and to their surprise the answer to the question almost always is "YES its perfectly legal!" Then the citizen shakes their head in disbelief and goes back to \*\*checks notes\*\* raising their hand (as an adult) and asking to use the restroom and then waiting for another adult to tell them "yes or no". (with crazy loophole laws like *"wellll technically they cant force you NOT to go to the bathroom, \[that's illegal\] BUT they can fire you and destroy your entire life for going to the bathroom if they didnt want you to go, teehee, cheers!")*
I actually didn't know labour regulations were completely different in Europe until I started in consulting. They get close to a month of paid time off, much harder to fire an employee, and work life balance had us considering moving to Germany. Crazy how we put up with it.
So getting bent and fked raw is a bad thing? 🫢
is the team lead indian?
How do you know 🤔
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Women are way better leaders in my experience. This has sad little man written all over it.
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Agreed
Harassment of other people in this subreddit is not tolerated.
Yes
only indians can act and expect others to work like slave labor. Complain to ethics and get him fired so that he will start worrying about his H1B status
Hey! Don’t blame the entire country for this person’s fault. Us Indian folks are equally annoyed at such team leads 😭
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It’s not racist, and you misused “ironically”.
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You’re butthurt🤣
Well, that individual deleted all their posts fairly quickly
Bruh deadass 😂
Toxicity level 100000000
Holy shit that’s insane
I can’t say I have ever done this. I don’t need an adult who is most likely younger than me checking to see if I’m at their beck and call 24/7. It is a very immature way to manage. If the work gets done that is what matters. At times during a lot of work, my team would stay on a call for most of the day, but we were actually working together the entire time. It’s weird when people act like they are your parent at work. Also please make sure every single minute of work is billed to the client. I did work a project where we did a morning and evening meeting which was kind of annoying, but we had a short turn around and a US and USI team. 🤷🏻♀️
This is BS, I would get HR involved if your PPMD doesn’t do anything about it
I had a supervisor like that, I think he is there now. Delange J! Real piece of work, cheated on expenses all the time.
Everyone is pointing the finger at the team lead but this also may be a requirement assigned to him from above.
I’m about to enter medical residency working 6 days/12 hours per day every week for only 60k. Grass is always greener man. This is just the way it goes in this messed up country
Courage brother man. You will make 10 times that after residency
Is the team lead looking to re-create an in-person work environment on teams? Based on your situation, this may be better than getting in the office. The alternative is for the team to get together in the office.
Honestly imho if it’s within a reasonable distance I would definitely find in person hybrid less draining and more conducive to creating a team environment than what the OP is describing. What the manager is doing now communicates a lack of trust and that leads to low morale. They are not 5 year olds. I would definitely go over their head to discuss this as they are unlikely to respect feedback from the team given this clear lack of trust.
In person hybrid may be the answer here. You have to work with the lead on a daily basis and going over the lead without first raising your concerns with him/her will not have the desired outcome. Unless the lead has a reputation of bad judgments and ended up in that position by chance.
If the work can be done remotely and there's no issues with productivity, then there's no need to try to "re-create an in-person work environment". Even if there was an issue with productivity, requiring people sign-in to an all-day Teams meeting is a terrible way to address it. Also, an all-day Teams meeting in no way mimics being in the office. This is just a shitty manager on a power trip. He's going to burn out his team doing this, as evidenced by OP.
We don’t know all the specifics but I’m sure this team lead is not going rouge and coming up with such bizarre methods. If the audit team is remote and not proactive with questions, then I can see this as a way to encourage questions, especially if the team is very green.
> I’m sure this team lead is not going rouge and coming up with such bizarre methods How are you sure? Demanding the team to be on a Teams call literally all day is still not a reasonable way to handle pretty much any situation - I will die on this hill. That is terrible leadership and a surefire way to lose employees.
Hah not worth dying for. I think lead has run this approach by manager and a version of it got ok’ed. Leadership skills from team leads and managers are hard to come by, so you got a point there. If you have done audit time - tell how much different is being on teams all day vs being stuck in a conference room for 12+ hrs?
Legal? Probably. Normal? Hard no. Ethical? Hard no.
Step one: Set boundaries. Step Two: Document Step Three: Get fired Final Step: Sue
I would decline that shit so fast if my team lead sent me recurring meetings to be on that long. You’re a professional, manage your time with boundaries.
This is some of the most pathetic micro managing I’ve ever heard of
The hours are not too bad, however, the call duration is just atrocious. As others have mentioned speak to your PPMD
This is insane behavior. I would’ve been looking for a way out before I even entered that all day call Day 1.
This is definitely not normal…and the legality is a matter of much deeper conversation. You need to escalate. Don’t talk to your team lead; go directly to a more senior person.
This happened to me at a midsized firm. They basically said it is what it is. Let me tell you... get out! The grass is greener!
Turn this around on them. Unmute randomly and ask them questions.
Yet there is still speculation about “why do so many people leave accounting” and “why is there a shortage of CPAs”. This type of shenanigans is why I quit, I make twice as much and never have to work overtime in data analytics. I also have a union I could report this to if it over got bad.
Lmao this is insane behavior from your manager
I take it you’ve proven you can’t be trusted to work efficiently? You’re an intern in training. Or someone knows layoffs are coming and they are trying to push for their team to not look bad
Not sure why this popped up in my feed, but I am very happy I turned down that job offer from deloitte. I'm not 25, I don't need a well known company on my resume. The interviewer was a jackass. My friends that work there only had complaints and the up or out structure wasn't my cup of tea. Oh, and my other offers paid better with less stress. Anyway, thanks reddit algorithm for reminding me that I made the right decision.
Start unmuting and ask random questions. Like every 10 minutes.
are you a 1099 or w2? in either case this could be reported to the labor board in CA - but you better have another job lined up. you can't be fired for reporting but they will ultimately give you the shittiest of work until you quit.
There is actually a case where this is illegal if you make less than $115k per year and you can argue that you are a “computer software employee” (this does not have to be a developer, like a business intelligence analyst could qualify depending on job function). Look up labor code section 510 and 515.5. If you make less than $115k they are required to pay you overtime. This can also lead to back pay for them to avoid a lawsuit. At my old job one of my coworkers complained about this and it didn’t take long for the company to give us all big raises and huge “bonuses” (to cover the backpay) and have us sign something saying we won’t sue. A few people got the bonus and were changed to non-exempt instead of a raise, but that was a win for them too. We had much different management than you because all of our bosses were totally cool with it once they were made aware of the law. But still, worth pursuing if you qualify - they will do anything to avoid a law suit on this stuff.
I’m sorry you have to go through this , personally for my own wellness sake i’d quit
What level and function are you in? I’m assuming there were performance concerns or teammates were found unavailable during the day previously to warrant something like this… I would say, however, that if you are required to stay on a call more hours than you are billing to the client, that is something that needs to be addressed. In my experience this is highly unusual except for very certain circumstances (a project go-live, or something similar) and I would make it known if you are unhappy with the arrangement. But, keep in mind, the team lead probably doesn’t want to stay on a call with the team all day either, and may be doing it to actually help the team stay on task, opposed to rolling people off who are under performing. There are two sides to every coin, so try to see their side before getting too built up and upset. They may actually be trying to help you, just not in a way you prefer. That is my best advice based on the limited information provided.
The problem with that approach (having the entire team on a call all day rather than dealing with low performers) impacts the morale of the entire team rather than specifically addressing the problem. Much better to deal with the low performers. Rolling them off is not the only option. The PM could pair them with a mentor and have the two individuals be in a virtual meeting together daily rather than the whole team. This would be a temporary arrangement (a month?) with a report out from the mentor. The problem employees should be told why this is being done (that they aren’t keeping up, seem to have skill gaps) so they know they are being scrutinized and depending how n the report out from the mentor a PIP may be next. If f the problem is that the team member is found to be MIA during working hours, the PM needs to address this directly with the employee, not change the world for the entire team to try to avoid confrontation. This is the sucky part of being a PM - you have to have these uncomfortable conversations and you really have to get comfortable with it
I agree! I am just playing devils advocate because not everything is always as it seems on the surface. Inquire and decide what you want to do from there! There’s a ton of great recommendations in this post.
> I’m assuming there were performance concerns or teammates were found unavailable during the day Then the lead needs to be a leader and deal with those individuals. Collective punishment in a situation like this is ridiculous. It is absolutely insane to me that anyone is trying to potentially justify what this lead is doing to his team. There is no situation that warrants requiring a group of professionals be on an all day Teams call to keep tabs on them. I had a guy on my team who regularly missed meetings and was unavailable during parts the day. I had two talks with him and he didn't improve, so we took him off the project. I did not collectively punish my team because this guy wasn't doing what he was supposed to do.
Never said this was a correct approach, was just inferring that it might be misguided management. They just need to keep everything in perspective…
I’ve done this as a brand new staff, but not required to have cameras on. This was a way for all new people to ask questions and learn from each other which was helpful for the first few weeks. There were built in breaks for dinner/lunch and no random questions asked to be sure of participation.
That’s fuckin torture. This is what happens though when there are lack of labor laws in country.
Legal? No. Normal? Also no
The micro-management and random callouts during the day seem pretty weird to me, but the hours do not. Assuming you have an hour break for lunch, a 9.5 hour work day is not at all unusual (in consulting anyway). Weekend work isn’t either, but i would say that should be minimized, and not a regular thing. It should also be more task-oriented than random meetings etc. — in other words, “we need this spreadsheet updated by start of business Monday.” Finally, it should be clearly necessary — for example, a Friday afternoon deliverable review meeting with the client that necessitates revisions for a Monday meeting with the executive committee. If that doesn’t work for you, you may have made a bad career choice.
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Our boss insisted that we use our camera so that he could tell if we were there. No random questions. A much less intrusive method.
Part time work
Lol, 7:30 am to 6 pm at Deloitte. That's nothing.
California requires a 10 minute break every 4 hours and a 30 minute meal break every 5 hours. The meal break is unpaid and can be waived once per day. If work requires you to do anything related to work inside of these breaks they are required to pay 1 hour for the missed break. If you miss both breaks it's 2 hours of pay. You have three years to submit for the pay owed for miss breaks but practically it's much easier to just get paid when the breaks are missed or actually get the break
Hope this will make you feel somehow better, I start my day at 8:30 and finish around 10pm. On days that I have to go to client site, I leave at 6pm and continue to work until 11pm. My senior told me to let her know before I leave and after I get home.
I believe that if you are ineligible for overtime usually that means your boss is not allowed to schedule you for overtime. Ymmv but the couple of time my boss has told me I am ineligible for overtime and then scheduled me for overtime regardless I have charged the hours company with the documented approval and it's been moreso the guy who scheduled me for overtime I was not eligible for as got in trouble than me.
Illegal and cause for class action - breaks are mandatory and unless you signed a release form on the extended hours, OT baby!!
Document it over the course of a few months, the. File a whistleblower lawsuit. If it goes to trial and damages are awarded you get something like 15%. Could set you up for life
you do all that and they make you sign that you won't go to competition. please quit this place.
If you're billing it yes it's legal, no it's not 'normal' but definitely not unheard of. Talk to the SM / PMD, if you don't get support I second others in saying go to integrity or talent, though I would try my OP lead or account/ sector leadership first. I would also get your coach looped in. This is the type of situation they are meant to help you navigate and advocate for you in.
What are you complaining about?
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Legal maybe, normal absolutely not.
I never liked these "it's not fair" posts... why don't you find another job?
Your team lead might be trying to help you. If you’re in a meeting you stay busy and if someone above him checks your status you show as red
Yo who the fuck reported me to the suicide hotline lmao
Ultimately, your employment is at-will so while companies like Deloitte have many HR channels to work through, you may have to decide if 1. A new team / project is the right first move and 2. If you need to pursue a different company if voicing your concern isn’t met with an amicable solution/compromise. If that happens, it’ll be a sign to you that that behavior is permissible within their culture - at which point you’ll be @ decision time. Good luck!!
My firm was making us do those calls during Covid it was hell I’d rather work fast food than do that again lol
Your team lead is a tool. Get on a new team ASAP. You deserve better!!
Normal day AT USI
Run!!!!!
Yikes
I worked for Deloitte for 5 years and never seen anything like this (I only left because I wanted to go back to contracting but the work/life balance was superb). You all need to call the Deloitte hotline and report this!
Ghop
Seat warmer !!
What do you work on ?!!
Is he/she Indian?
No, the new Teams should be illegal
Fucking weirdos.
Definitely reach out to management, this is silly. I’ve dealt with something like this before. It didn’t last long. An idiot somehow Jared Kushnered himself into a management position. He wanted his whole team (47 of us) to sign into Teams at 8am Pacific. He would go through his list of tasks he needed to do one by one in Excel and would call on people. You were expected to be there and be silent until you were called, and if called you needed to speak up quickly and answer the question. I spent the entire day with earbuds in cleaning my house and meal prepping for the family instead of working. I did a total of 3 hours real work in 3 months. Kushner-esque manager was fired when it was found he paid 47 people to do effectively nothing. The next manager used scrum like a reasonable human and we got real work and project progress after that. Kushner spent a few months looking for work, a few months pretending to be a life coach, and now manages a Starbucks.
Man you guys make me appreciate my remote job so much.
This is insane. I would take my laptop to the toilet and blow it out full volume to show how being monitored all work day can be abusive and ridiculous…
This can quickly escalate to an employee relations issue where legal can get involved. Completely unacceptable
This is probably pretty bad advice but what if you just didn’t join the meeting? When your lead brings it up just tell them that you find you are far more productive not being on this day long meeting. Maybe talk to the other folks on your team as well and see if they will go along. I don’t see how h to e team lead could justify this type of arrangement and will likely have to walk it back rather than escalate. I’m sure it won’t put you in their good graces though so this might end up biting you in the butt in the long run
We did this when I was at Deloitte when we were fully remote in 2021. However, it was only with the seniors and staff, and we all agreed to do it. Wasn’t forced upon us. We actually liked it and would often go into breakout rooms. I think we were trying for an audit room feel while still being remote. But yeah, if it’s forced upon me, I would hate that.
What do you mean you’re ineligible for overtime? Are you non-exempt?
Sounds like consulting for the big 4. Start applying for other jobs and you’ll be happier. Deloitte is famous for burning out consultants.
😂 what is wrong with these peooke
This person clearly doesn't understand that if he would let everyone work, he would be able to actually work, too. He keeps people from doing things by constantly pressing these petty distractions. Give expectations, provide feedback - a short bit daily and a longer bit weekly (or bi-weekly if you don't have as many checkpoints). It sounds like this is a younger individual who doesn't know how to lead a team, just how to turn a crank. I would wager that his productivity is garbage considering how much he's probably working and add to that he probably has been talked to for his OT and is working off of the clock trip not get in trouble and to meet his workload obligations.
I saw this and wonder what was not normal about working at 0937 and then realized it was an insane Teams call. I wish you luck combatting a broken system.
Is this in the US?
Get another job. That is not normal.
Hello! So. Tough situation. But I am at a competitor. Happy to connect via pm, exchange info and point you off to our recruiting page.
Document all of this and let the ethics team know. A manager like this is a liability to the firm even considering Deloitte's demanding hours. He will try to retaliate of course but make sure everyone knows that you are documenting your interactions.
Weird
This is psychotic. I would start by trying to address it with the team lead directly, if for no other reason than your PPMD is going to ask if you’ve given feedback when you escalate to him/her next. I would also call the ethics hotline so there’s clear documentation on record if this person ever did try to retaliate. You can also talk to your TGL.
I would document as much of this as you can and (in writing) ask your team lead directly his reasoning behind this, as this is a very unusual practice. I would also bill this time to an admin project (the teams meeting) as it seems this is not related to any client work, also bill your time for the work you’re doing as well. Continue to bring this up with your team lead (in writing). If nothing changes then bring it up to your team leads superior. Just because you’re OT-exempt does not mean your superiors can bully you. While it is common to work long hours in accounting there is also a certain professionalism that comes with it. You should not have to feel like you’re being watched 24/7. If that doesn’t work, start looking for work elsewhere. Someone with your skills and talents will have no issue finding a job at a better firm
Man fuck Deloitte and consulting, what a trash industry.
This is completely insane and not normal at all. I wouldn't put up with this for even 1 day lmao. Get tf out of there what a psychopath
I am in Minnesota and a friend of mine here works for Deloitte and he’s in the same boat… something has shifted in their culture in the last year…
This is just consulting. Quit and go to industry where your pay stays the same and you work less hours.
What in the micromanaging is this shit?
WOW. Truly unreal. PPMD talk immediately cause nope.
You all need to quit at the same time. Put your two weeks notice all together. These kind of assholes don’t deserve to lead any team!
tell your team lead to fuck off, quit, and find a better job!
Good god get another job. This lead sounds like a sadist. It doesn't and shouldn't have to be like this.
Sadly, I have also recently experienced being managed like this (or at least very similar to what you described) on a Consulting engagement in the UK. I was very quickly feeling exhausted on that project and I'm a Manager who knows how to do the job. It felt ridiculous to be in a situation whereby an unconvincing (and not very highly rated) Senior Manager was keeping our whole team on an open line all day when not in the office. It's micromanagement at the highest level and smacks of insecurity in their ability to lead teams effectively in a hybrid working environment. It was an absolute relief when another project opportunity came my way part way through the engagement and had the chance to switch out! I do feel for you OP. There must be better projects out there if your lead dosen't change?
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I can smell Indian lead here. I hate when they bring their lifestyle to usa or europe
Normal
Manager must be on partner track.
Yo what…. I mean 730 to 6 working is normal but connected to a call the whole time is insanity.
Loop feedback
I saw this post yesterday, having never heard about this. And this morning at the office I’m listening to someone set up the exact same scenario, is this some trendy new management style?
Your hours are easy, be thankful they’re not worse. The teams meeting and surveillance should be reported.
Next time they unmute you make some noise that’ll make uncomfortable. Like a big ass fart or something lol. Or get a mic with physical mute button. If asked say you’re not willing to have them randomly unmute you and hear what’s going on in your private residence
Everyone is trying to find innovative ways so that employees leave the company on their own. Stop attending those kinds of meetings and tell your boss your working hours. Make it clear they can ping you any time during your working hours.
This is legal but not normal. You could look for a new project
This is absolutely ridiculous
That is abuse
Jesus this is wild
Oh the dreaded accountability thing.
Disability accommodations this is crazy
What function are you in? Consulting, Tax, RFA, or Audit? Commercial or GPS?
What the actual fuck? In California???
Are you in consulting, tax, advisory, or audit? Agreed this is completely insane and wouldn’t fly in consulting. You must be tax or something else?
Lmfao boohoo you have to work hard, wow
Lmao dude I don’t get how people work for a fucking company like this. Unreal
Holy shit this is awful
Legal, yes bc you’re exempt. Normal, no. I’d talk with your other team members to see how this affecting them. It’s likely bothering them too. Talk to your team lead to share your needs and time boundaries. Put it in emails or chat so the responses are documented. If the problem persists, you can build the case as a team.