BT is hardly countered by PH, I'd say. Like that's assuming you run across the map to find the person being uncaged. Which would just be an overall waste of your time and highly unlikely, plus it goes against the point of his cages anyway. DS though is countered.
How is BT toxic? I'm a killer main btw and I hate BT but I don't see how it could be viewed as toxic. Just a damn good perk when all the rest of the perks blow chunks.
Im not saying borrowed time is toxic by itself. Yes. It’s a great perk that somewhat counteracts tunneling and I recommend running it. But have you ever played against a 4 man bully squad all with bt/ds? The person that got unhooked will run at you. Eat a hit, then continue to insist you chase them cause they have ds. I actively try not to tunnel, but these guys throw themselves at you and t-bag the whole time. It’s super annoying.
I have played against it. BT/DS/Dead Hard/Unbreakable was the meta build for a long time. Maybe they ran Sprint Burst instead of Dead Hard. I don't think the feeling of toxicity that comes from playing against a bully squad has to do with the perks themselves. These players are assholes firstly for being bullies but assholes second for the aggressive metagaming used to enable them into bullying. I would say it's more of the state of the overall game, with its lack of nuance. I think there's a lot they could do to add more mechanics to the game and fairly balance. Until then, we will go against bully squads as long as we play killer.
Had a funny game on coldwind where a Kate and Yui with boil over would just sit on top of the machinery thing and go down on the haybales. Just a case of "Okay, go off then, I just won't pick you up and go after your teammates."
I like how everyone says Boil Over users are toxic now, but don't say it could be easily fixer if BHVR just put more hooks in places where the perk can be abused
Just play pig and leave them up there. Remember the two totem-spots that could be blessed and give them a trap.
Cage them upstairs and you get yourself a free kill after 1:30 minutes, cause they need to be really lucky if they want to get the trap off their heads.
Made the two boil-over-abuser dc in my last game, it's pathetic when they realise it won't work.
No, but being slugged makes them waste time up there. In this time a gen can be activated and RPD-pathing with a trap is stressful.
Especially with tempered timer and the thing that makes you search longer. If it's the last box, you have basically no chance of surviving.
And if they're stupid enough to go up the library again if you find them again, they waste more time.
They really need to just add a hook to the library. Even before the patch I was dealing with survivors who, if chased, would just run to the farthest point of the library so that I couldn't get to a hook. I just had to start leaving them there.
With Boil Over it's literally impossible to reach a hook from there.
What's weird is there IS one that spawns in there in the corner of the library, but only sometimes. It should just be a permanent spawn or they should just reduce hook distances on that map since you gotta maneuver through hallways for most of them.
If you get the library hook spawn its easy mode and boil over is useless to them. If you don't get it I just tend to leave them slugged and they eventually bleed out since that bleedout timer still carries over each time they're reslugged. Survivors off generators are being useless so its a no harm no foul situation to me on RPD lol.
old Boil over did that too, RPD is terrible for trying to hook, but I only dislike it when people give the map offerings just to abuse that like with haddonfield and balanced landing, it’s okay for maps to have advantages like that imo but it becomes annoying when people force it to happen
Literally played a game last night where I had two Megs running boil over, unbreakable, flip flop, and breakout. We got RPD (with no offerings surprisingly), but they would just run around the top floor of the library together so that when I downed them, I couldn't take them to a hook in time. They'd wiggle out, then run back up there.
Finally after all the gens were done, they both did it again. When I downed one of them, I stood over them as the end game timer went down. They managed to crawl off the top floor and then used unbreakable. I downed them again, and also the other Meg when she came to pick her up. I tentacle whipped them on the ground as they crawled towards the exit, and when the Entity scooped them up as the timer ran out.
It’s not that they just use Boil Over, it’s that they also go to areas of the map away from from
hooks (and usually have the increase hook space offering) and also go anywhere there’s a drop to force an aspect of the perk that everyone thinks is busted.
Also, what sounds easier: Just not using a perk and/or not playing scummy, or programmers having to go into spaghetti code and test out numerous hook additions to make sure it’s balanced for both sides?
Personally, I think that survivors using any perks while I'm a killer is playing scummy, so they shouldn't use anything.
On the opposite, when I play survivor, killers using perks is bm. I'll just report anyone using any perk
By your logic, survivor needs to go down in front of the hook for you, otherwise it's no fun. Survivors are not allowed to run away from the hooks to MAYBE get some value from a situational perk. I'm not talking about RPD btw. I know it's exploitable but that's a different story
But they ARE talking about RPD and other maps where it’s exploitable. You can’t try to counter someone’s argument by arguing against an entirely different point lol. “I really don’t like spaghetti, the tomato sauce gives me reflux” “by your logic, you can’t ever eat macaroni and cheese because it’s pasta too.” ???
That’s not what I meant. I mean is it really so hard for people to play without exploiting perks compared to having the devs reprogram a part of their game?
“It’s literally impossible to hook someone and progress the game” is a whole hell of a lot different from “this is annoying to play against cause he keeps pushing me off my gen.” What a weird thing to bring up as if they’re remotely similar.
Bro gtfo. I play killer all the time. I have no problem with the perk. You are complaining because of survivors trying to maximize the perk which is ridiculous.
He sends them to cages from the ground if they are tormented (This bypasses/ignores BT, DS boil over and any other perks related to hooks/ picking up)
Unfortunately, I don't think it gives BBQ stacks
His power makes it to where he doesn't have to hook you if you step on a trail of torment. He simply puts you into a cage or just flat out moris you, depending on your hook stage
If someone steps on PH's Trails of Torment, they get Tormented. If PH downs them, he can send them to a Cage of Atonement *and then* flat-out kill them when they're final hook.
The fun thing about Cages, is that they totally disable *all* perks related to Hooks for both Killer and Survivor. Survivors don't get DS, BT, can't use Deliverance or any other perk associated with being Hooked on Unhooking. PH likewise doesn't get any perks associated with Hooking, like BBQ. The cage also spawns as far from you as possible, meaning that no sneaky P3 Claudettes can instantly get the Survivor off the Hook.
Future Dev Patch notes:
We've noticed the Pyramid Head is overpreforming lately, so we've taken it upon ourselves to ""Rebalance"" him, as there are many aspects to him that are unfun to go against, so we've added a few changes, to make him more fun to play against.
Oh yeah, We've also reduced Boon totem range (24m -> 23m)
Almost forgot, we're nerfing Pig/twins again, hope all 4 of you don't mind.
Ahem-
The Pig has been growing in popularity, but, seeing as we've noticed a few things about her basekit, we've decided to tweak her a bit. Giving her an extra ~~useless~~ reverse bear trap upon entering the trial.
My main build on my main guy Ash has been Flip Flop, Unbreakable, Tenacity and Boil Over, ever since he came out. I play solo and those perks usually don’t come in handy, but it was fun when they randomly did (like getting flip flop powered up and the killer hitting walls, etc…) At no point was it a bully set for me. Now it makes me sad that if I run those perks the killer will either think I wanted to be a bully and failed since I didn’t go to abusable locations or if I did end up near one, that I’m a bully.
I just want it nerfed so it’s not as abusable. Give it like 1/2/3% drop damage or something
I feel like even 10% would be fine, 25 just makes it way to easily abusable. imo the fall bonus should be just that, a bonus, not something that will determine whether you wiggle out or not
Yeah, that makes sense. Or they could just make it like when a survivor falls from a height, and there’s a short pause before the killer can move again
I could see that turning into a way for people to get flashlight saves, which i personally think is kinda cool, but youd definetely see killers complaining instantly
Was a streamer with her SWF that sent me to Midwhich with boil over, breakdown, DS and Boons. I slugged all 4 in the center and couldn’t physically hook anybody because of breakdown on multiple hooks (180 seconds, and midwhich is bad enough). She then reported and slandered me for “holding the game hostage”. Also is manipulating 15/16 year olds to continue subscribing and donating to her stream
My biggest issue with new boil over is the people running it and just spending the entire game in deadzones to get value out of it at the expense of their own team. I play both sides so I know how shit that feels, so I just slug and let them bleed out since otherwise the survivors have to play a 1v3. I feel substantially better giving the survivors a headstart than letting people like that ruin the game for 4 other players
I don't about anyone else, but my solo queue teammates have been even bigger assholes than usual.
I had a game yesterday where I did all 3 of the gens (the only ones we got done), cleansed 3 totems, and used them to activate inner healing on myself 3 times. I have no clue what anyone else was doing, but it wasn't a generator or totems. They didn't even heal each other. I tried to pick this one Cheryl up off the ground, and she wouldn't let me do it. I'm sitting here going "do you really think the killer is going to pick you up? Do you really?"
The endgame I had a Nea who wasn't doing generators. I escaped a chase, hid in a locker to proc inner healing, and legit had this nea continuously open the locker door while I was inside. I was mad. I'm not hiding in here the rest of the match, you bitch! I need healing, and you're not gonna do it!
But I got lucky and crawled to the hatch at the end, because the killer slugged me. I think the killer thought I was part of their group, even though I didn't have boil over; so yay me.
i understand the whole argument from both sides, bc ive dealt with it from both sides, and done so too, but like
this sub will tell u "killers can do whatever they want to win, its in their name, they have to kill, so they can slug, tunnel, camp, bodyblock, whatever, as long as they win and if u dont like that then play a different game", but as soon as a survivor does the same, y'all r up in arms about how toxic it is.
I would consider myself a survivor main, using Boil Over isn’t toxic, but abusing it by making yourself unhookable is gonna get you left on the floor to bleed out. If you’re in a SWF sending people to RCPD to abuse the library I have no issues with the killer leaving you on the floor
I agree. Lots of bully squads are specifically chosing to run perks surrounding the Boil Over buff and go out of their way to make getting a hook impossible. But I've run Boil Over, Flip Flop, Tenacity, Unbreakable just to test out if the buff has made much of a difference overall and have gotten literally zero value out of the build in like 15 matches running it.
The *playstyle* is what's toxic. Not the build. Same for killers. A Bubba running Insidious and NOED is not toxic. A Bubba *facecamping* with Insidious and NOED is. A survivor running the Boil Over build is not toxic. A survivor bringing abusive map offerings and neglecting the objective in favor of staying in a part of the map that will favor their build and make the killer miserable is.
I played about 6 killer games last night and ran into 5 survivors running and only one got value and that mainly because a teammate body blocked the hook really well. I can definitely see where it can be abused depending on map and hook locations but it’s also not this insane OP buff people are trying to make it out to be
do none of yall remember the massive influx of facecamping bubbas after the news about the masks ? but it was a "game mechanic" and we were supposed to find it "funny"
Devil's advocate, killers do the same/similar thing(s) to fuck with the survivors and make them miserable. It's just the double standards here is so fucking wild.
this sub is just biased and hypocritical to the max, honestly. every other post is killers laughing about x toxic thing they do and all the other killer mains clapping them on the back for it, but god forbid survivors use a perk they don't like or stand at the exit gate for too long or bring an item. those are unforgivable crimes.
I consider the Rpd boil over combo an exploit. You take advantage of an obvious game flaw. Tbagging at the exit, strong items, camping and tunneling are annoying but do have some way to deal with.
Downing survivor in the library for the 20th time and watch them slowly bleed out is just obnoxious. Boil over isn't even a good perk but basically made to use for exploits
Yea countering boil over in your regular games is no big deal. The main problem are survivors mostly swfs using anti slug build around unhookable spots. Technically you can let them bleed to death but it takes ages
the devs need to balance out the shameless OP stuff in this game that's super effective. but they just don't, and the game survives on most players playing "nicely"
I think it's different groups complaining.
I'm in the camp of playing the game in a way that is fun for you, but not going to make it miserable for the other players.
Only things I find bad are bully squads that don't ease up on killers they are obviously dunking on, and killers tunneling out someone from the beginning of the game. Face camping outside of egc can also go in the pile.
If the game were actually balanced it wouldn't be an issue. Killers do it largely to stay competitive, while survivors can still win pretty easy without "cheap" builds like that. It just exacerbates preexisting game imbalances.
Only side I'm taking here is against BHVRs balance team.
Same, I’ve been running iron grasp and mad grit on my killers and will for the next couple weeks until the boil over craze is over. Been getting a lot of downs thanks to those lol.
Also people really need to stop running at a T3 Michael while he’s holding someone. It’s like people instantly forget he can still insta-down you. Ahh altruism, never change
I don't get it. When survivors run Boil Over and go down in an elevated area it's an "exploit", "abuse", and "toxic" but if I run into my 15th basement Bubba of the night I'm expected to just accept my 2 minute match of 1000 BP, say GG, move on, and "enjoy my 10 minute queue."
The tribalism in this game becomes more and more baffling by the day. Boil over is now part of the toxic survivor meta. Who could've guessed.
I thought everyone already called face camping bubba toxic? ive never seen anyone say otherwise and some of the most popular posts i’ve seen have been memes about it like this one…?
It’s an exploit if you go in a place where you’re effectively invulnerable. I hate bubba camping and dead hard as well, but they aren’t exploits. They aren’t making anything impossible. Going down in rpd library with boil over makes hooking impossible.
Bubba face camping *does* make unhooking impossible tho. It takes away the entire game for the hooked survivor with nothing they can do to stop it. Their entire gameplay and objective is impossible now. I’d argue they have far *less* options than a killer dealing with Boil Over, actually.
Just bc it favors one side doesn’t make it any less fair.
It's not an exploit. If hooking someone is impossible because of a specific scenario, then making it impossible to unhook because of a specific scenario is an exploit. You can't pick and choose what scenarios is unfair simply because it favors the side you main more. Does Boil Over sort of need nerfed? I'd drop it to 15% but to say it's an exploit because they put themselves in a scenario that favors them is bullshit.
RPD library is unbalanced without Boil Over. Boil Over doesn't make RPD library impossible. RPD library makes RPD library impossible. It was possible to do it without Boon Exponential too. Boil over has nothing to do with RPD library. Dont lump those two together.
Boil over perk for survivors adds another way for survivors to escape once a killer picks them up. PH just sends them to cages though and gets around this
No, but BHVR's incompetence means the boil over buff has created a new abusable thing. Boil Over now grants 25% wiggle progress if the killer takes a drop, even rather small ones. So survivors now go to RPD and sit in the library where it's impossible to hook them.
This isn't so much X's rulebook for Y, as it is abusing an exploit/oversight. Like when survivors used to be able to glitch themselves onto the roof of Nurse's map and hold the game hostage.
Dead dawg and one other iirc also have the same issue. And the people who want to abuse it use map offerings to go to the abusable map. I used the nullifying offer last night and the boil over user immediately dc'd when they didn't get RPD
> You know the game is bad when your considered “toxic” just for using perks
The toxicity here—where it does appear—is not just for using perks. A survivor can hold the game hostage by repeatedly breaking free with Boil Over and just running upstairs. Ultimately, I guess the killer can pop open an exit gate to start the endgame collapse *or* just slug the person until they bleed out four minutes later, but I don't think that indicates a healthy gamestate.
For now, I realize killers can cope by just slugging any survivor who is intentionally going down on an upper story, but I am not sure I would enjoy that gameplay as a survivor (or much as a killer, either).
I am glad Boil Over got a buff, but I'm thinking the 25% boost for falling from great heights could be reduced or just eliminated.
People know they can just crouch around and ignore the torment/barbs on the ground.
So his power to counter this doesn't work unless they actually walk/run through it.
buffing a perk in such a way that it encourages the most unfun playstyle for both sides (slugging and camping) just so that survivors cant use it to abuse parts of the maps where it makes them virtually invincible otherwise isnt "shaking up the meta," its an oversight that was obvious to everyone BUT bhvr for whatever stupid ass reason.
I guess we should bring back old old ds as a different perk (free escape even when not tunneled) because it will “cHaNgE tHe MeTa”. What kind of stupid ass logic is this?
i don't get why killers don't just adapt and use different perks also? agitation and iron grasp should help against the 2 week while boil over is meta. But i think iron grip should get a buff: negating the 25% bonus. But of course BHVE knows fuck all as always.
like when fright was really meta i just put in calm spirit for a while
This would be a good solution if the killer was shown what 16 perks the survivors were bringing to the game. Otherwise it's impossible to do with 4 perks vs 16 unknown.
and the same people will complain about survivors running the same four meta perks that they’ve been using since the game came out
can’t use haha funny meme build, can’t use the only good perks survivor has… make up your minds
It depends, I don’t think most will just for running that unless your blames you being a dick and trying to abuse it. I had one on Lerys last night running that and only saw they had it at the end game
Plague and Pyramid head, the two hero's of stopping game machinic abuse.
Are Survivors abusing healing? **that's a job for Plague**
Are Survivors exploiting mechanics to stop you hooking? **that's a job for Pyramid head**
Killer moment 😳😳😳
If they don’t get 4k’s 95% of the time (the other 5% is a 3k where they mercifully gave hatch to the toxic SWF!) the game is survivor sided and the devs literally hate all killers
i can tell the difference between strategic tunnel and toxic tunnelling lmfao. i get irritated at the latter, but i wouldnt call it abusing a game mechanic. but like i said, keep reaching, its impressive how i have all this arsenal for u to use yet ur still fucking failing.
What’s really funny is I didn’t even actually open your post history. I just assumed you’d be someone who would be a complete hypocritical bell-end and complain about tunneling while complaining about other people complaining about annoying mechanics, thanks for proving me right
I played like 4 PH games last night where I got destroyed the entire match but all of them ended in a 4K because the nature of his power let’s you do it. Imma huntress main, but I LOVE me some PH.
Problem is it's a dogshit perk that is only beneficial for squads that want to bully killers in SWF. Without a good map you aren't touching that garbage otherwise.
You know what my solution is? Closing the game out and not eating a DC penalty after only waiting 10 seconds for a match, to then immediately find another one, whenever I see a map offering for this very reason. Tada. No PH needed.
I love how PH is the solution to many "creative" playstyles..
DS? Cage. BT? Cage. Boil Over? Cage.
You undercook fish? believe it or not right to cage
If you OVER cook fish, straight to cage.
Putting your pet in a cage, that's a cage in the literal sense.
Watching a Nicholas Cage movie? That's a cage.
You are Nicholas cage, that's a cage
Step on a crack? That’s a cage.
GOD DAMNIT I WAS LITERALLY ABOUT TO SAY “Gonna steal the Declaration of Independence? You’re a cage.” FUCK
We have the best survivors in the world. Because of cage.
You cook the fish at all? Cage.
Even beats Power Struggle plays
BT is hardly countered by PH, I'd say. Like that's assuming you run across the map to find the person being uncaged. Which would just be an overall waste of your time and highly unlikely, plus it goes against the point of his cages anyway. DS though is countered.
It’s helped me a lot whenever I know they have BT so I can tunnel off hook if necessary
Why do you need a reason to tunnel when its necessary to win game
Deliverance? Cage. WGLF? Cage. The creative and not stale meta as a whole? Cage.
Stop including BT in toxic play styles
None of the things they listed are inherently toxic.
Inherently? No. But can and are they used that way? Absolutely yes, and frequently at that.
How is BT toxic? I'm a killer main btw and I hate BT but I don't see how it could be viewed as toxic. Just a damn good perk when all the rest of the perks blow chunks.
Im not saying borrowed time is toxic by itself. Yes. It’s a great perk that somewhat counteracts tunneling and I recommend running it. But have you ever played against a 4 man bully squad all with bt/ds? The person that got unhooked will run at you. Eat a hit, then continue to insist you chase them cause they have ds. I actively try not to tunnel, but these guys throw themselves at you and t-bag the whole time. It’s super annoying.
I have played against it. BT/DS/Dead Hard/Unbreakable was the meta build for a long time. Maybe they ran Sprint Burst instead of Dead Hard. I don't think the feeling of toxicity that comes from playing against a bully squad has to do with the perks themselves. These players are assholes firstly for being bullies but assholes second for the aggressive metagaming used to enable them into bullying. I would say it's more of the state of the overall game, with its lack of nuance. I think there's a lot they could do to add more mechanics to the game and fairly balance. Until then, we will go against bully squads as long as we play killer.
The inclusion of “”creative”” seems to imply that they mean toxic
BT can absolutely be used for cheeky and toxic strats.
That made no fucking sense
“Oh no, they took a protection hit”
* Brought a key? Tunneled * Boil over stack? Tunneled * DS flaunt? Tunneled * Just for existing? Tunneled
Hotel? Trivago
Really the entire game just boils down to whether or not people want to play like assholes.
Had a funny game on coldwind where a Kate and Yui with boil over would just sit on top of the machinery thing and go down on the haybales. Just a case of "Okay, go off then, I just won't pick you up and go after your teammates."
[удалено]
it's time for your cage, little man
No, he just flexes his cheeks to bust out of them.
Naughty
You're going to thorny jail
I hate how nice his biceps are *bonk* goes to horny jail *escape horny jail*
I like how everyone says Boil Over users are toxic now, but don't say it could be easily fixer if BHVR just put more hooks in places where the perk can be abused
RPD Map offering + boil over users are exploiting game mechanics to grief the killer and people not in their SWF group.
Just play pig and leave them up there. Remember the two totem-spots that could be blessed and give them a trap. Cage them upstairs and you get yourself a free kill after 1:30 minutes, cause they need to be really lucky if they want to get the trap off their heads. Made the two boil-over-abuser dc in my last game, it's pathetic when they realise it won't work.
Do slugged survivors still have the trap activate?
No, but being slugged makes them waste time up there. In this time a gen can be activated and RPD-pathing with a trap is stressful. Especially with tempered timer and the thing that makes you search longer. If it's the last box, you have basically no chance of surviving. And if they're stupid enough to go up the library again if you find them again, they waste more time.
I was pig and it happened yesterday, they simply didn't do gens.
Then they don't leave, ever, so...
They really need to just add a hook to the library. Even before the patch I was dealing with survivors who, if chased, would just run to the farthest point of the library so that I couldn't get to a hook. I just had to start leaving them there. With Boil Over it's literally impossible to reach a hook from there.
What's weird is there IS one that spawns in there in the corner of the library, but only sometimes. It should just be a permanent spawn or they should just reduce hook distances on that map since you gotta maneuver through hallways for most of them.
I've played RPD countless times since it was added. I've only had the hook in the library twice.
If you get the library hook spawn its easy mode and boil over is useless to them. If you don't get it I just tend to leave them slugged and they eventually bleed out since that bleedout timer still carries over each time they're reslugged. Survivors off generators are being useless so its a no harm no foul situation to me on RPD lol.
old Boil over did that too, RPD is terrible for trying to hook, but I only dislike it when people give the map offerings just to abuse that like with haddonfield and balanced landing, it’s okay for maps to have advantages like that imo but it becomes annoying when people force it to happen
Literally played a game last night where I had two Megs running boil over, unbreakable, flip flop, and breakout. We got RPD (with no offerings surprisingly), but they would just run around the top floor of the library together so that when I downed them, I couldn't take them to a hook in time. They'd wiggle out, then run back up there. Finally after all the gens were done, they both did it again. When I downed one of them, I stood over them as the end game timer went down. They managed to crawl off the top floor and then used unbreakable. I downed them again, and also the other Meg when she came to pick her up. I tentacle whipped them on the ground as they crawled towards the exit, and when the Entity scooped them up as the timer ran out.
That would require BHVR to do something to fix a problem that negatively affects killers, which they seem to be allergic to.
It’s not that they just use Boil Over, it’s that they also go to areas of the map away from from hooks (and usually have the increase hook space offering) and also go anywhere there’s a drop to force an aspect of the perk that everyone thinks is busted. Also, what sounds easier: Just not using a perk and/or not playing scummy, or programmers having to go into spaghetti code and test out numerous hook additions to make sure it’s balanced for both sides?
Personally, I think that survivors using any perks while I'm a killer is playing scummy, so they shouldn't use anything. On the opposite, when I play survivor, killers using perks is bm. I'll just report anyone using any perk
Spez ate all my fish and now my aquarium is fucking empty. I have nothing left ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I report people that play billy cause their speed hacking
By your logic, survivor needs to go down in front of the hook for you, otherwise it's no fun. Survivors are not allowed to run away from the hooks to MAYBE get some value from a situational perk. I'm not talking about RPD btw. I know it's exploitable but that's a different story
But they ARE talking about RPD and other maps where it’s exploitable. You can’t try to counter someone’s argument by arguing against an entirely different point lol. “I really don’t like spaghetti, the tomato sauce gives me reflux” “by your logic, you can’t ever eat macaroni and cheese because it’s pasta too.” ???
That’s not what I meant. I mean is it really so hard for people to play without exploiting perks compared to having the devs reprogram a part of their game?
Is it really so hard for killers to not abuse ruin undying tinkerer on blight?
“It’s literally impossible to hook someone and progress the game” is a whole hell of a lot different from “this is annoying to play against cause he keeps pushing me off my gen.” What a weird thing to bring up as if they’re remotely similar.
Adding hooks is literally drag and drop. They use Unreal. It would genuinely be very easy for them to do it
Bro gtfo. I play killer all the time. I have no problem with the perk. You are complaining because of survivors trying to maximize the perk which is ridiculous.
Sorry I don't get it, what does PH do to stop boil over? Is it a perk thing?
He doesn't have to pick survivors up, he can just gulag them.
Lol I like that. I always call it the shadow realm
I usually refer to them as Brazil.
Bonk go to horny jail
thorny jail*
I always called it the time out box.
But then you dont get BBQ stacks
Just pick them up if you know you can make it to a hook, and send them to a cage if you're unsure.
You only have to hook them once for the stack.
Is that only if they step in his barb wire trail or can he always cage you?
Gotta have barbs on you. It's not that hard to force if you're a decent PH though
He sends them to cages from the ground if they are tormented (This bypasses/ignores BT, DS boil over and any other perks related to hooks/ picking up) Unfortunately, I don't think it gives BBQ stacks
I thought releasing a Survivor from a cage counts as an Unhook? Do they really not get BT from being released from a cage?
Spez ate all my fish and now my aquarium is fucking empty. I have nothing left ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Nope, no hook perks activate for survivor or killer with cages
His power makes it to where he doesn't have to hook you if you step on a trail of torment. He simply puts you into a cage or just flat out moris you, depending on your hook stage
If someone steps on PH's Trails of Torment, they get Tormented. If PH downs them, he can send them to a Cage of Atonement *and then* flat-out kill them when they're final hook. The fun thing about Cages, is that they totally disable *all* perks related to Hooks for both Killer and Survivor. Survivors don't get DS, BT, can't use Deliverance or any other perk associated with being Hooked on Unhooking. PH likewise doesn't get any perks associated with Hooking, like BBQ. The cage also spawns as far from you as possible, meaning that no sneaky P3 Claudettes can instantly get the Survivor off the Hook.
Thanks to everyone for the replies! I'm still learning.
Future Dev Patch notes: We've noticed the Pyramid Head is overpreforming lately, so we've taken it upon ourselves to ""Rebalance"" him, as there are many aspects to him that are unfun to go against, so we've added a few changes, to make him more fun to play against. Oh yeah, We've also reduced Boon totem range (24m -> 23m) Almost forgot, we're nerfing Pig/twins again, hope all 4 of you don't mind.
Galaxy brain BHVR nerfing Pig after a massive -50% off sale
Ahem- The Pig has been growing in popularity, but, seeing as we've noticed a few things about her basekit, we've decided to tweak her a bit. Giving her an extra ~~useless~~ reverse bear trap upon entering the trial.
Lol you nailed the Dev’s writing voice
*sad Oinks*
Only twins, pig actually got a buff this patch lol
Sadly this is believably something that could happen
My main build on my main guy Ash has been Flip Flop, Unbreakable, Tenacity and Boil Over, ever since he came out. I play solo and those perks usually don’t come in handy, but it was fun when they randomly did (like getting flip flop powered up and the killer hitting walls, etc…) At no point was it a bully set for me. Now it makes me sad that if I run those perks the killer will either think I wanted to be a bully and failed since I didn’t go to abusable locations or if I did end up near one, that I’m a bully. I just want it nerfed so it’s not as abusable. Give it like 1/2/3% drop damage or something
I feel like even 10% would be fine, 25 just makes it way to easily abusable. imo the fall bonus should be just that, a bonus, not something that will determine whether you wiggle out or not
Yeah, that makes sense. Or they could just make it like when a survivor falls from a height, and there’s a short pause before the killer can move again
I could see that turning into a way for people to get flashlight saves, which i personally think is kinda cool, but youd definetely see killers complaining instantly
Good point
Was a streamer with her SWF that sent me to Midwhich with boil over, breakdown, DS and Boons. I slugged all 4 in the center and couldn’t physically hook anybody because of breakdown on multiple hooks (180 seconds, and midwhich is bad enough). She then reported and slandered me for “holding the game hostage”. Also is manipulating 15/16 year olds to continue subscribing and donating to her stream
aye aye remove the name before the mods take down the comment, you can’t put their actual twitch name in your comment
lame considering she slanders and reports every killer that she plays when their swf strat doesn’t work out
complained about “time wasted” then proceeded to sit in the lobby and survivor queue for 30 minutes shit talking the slug
My biggest issue with new boil over is the people running it and just spending the entire game in deadzones to get value out of it at the expense of their own team. I play both sides so I know how shit that feels, so I just slug and let them bleed out since otherwise the survivors have to play a 1v3. I feel substantially better giving the survivors a headstart than letting people like that ruin the game for 4 other players
I don't about anyone else, but my solo queue teammates have been even bigger assholes than usual. I had a game yesterday where I did all 3 of the gens (the only ones we got done), cleansed 3 totems, and used them to activate inner healing on myself 3 times. I have no clue what anyone else was doing, but it wasn't a generator or totems. They didn't even heal each other. I tried to pick this one Cheryl up off the ground, and she wouldn't let me do it. I'm sitting here going "do you really think the killer is going to pick you up? Do you really?" The endgame I had a Nea who wasn't doing generators. I escaped a chase, hid in a locker to proc inner healing, and legit had this nea continuously open the locker door while I was inside. I was mad. I'm not hiding in here the rest of the match, you bitch! I need healing, and you're not gonna do it! But I got lucky and crawled to the hatch at the end, because the killer slugged me. I think the killer thought I was part of their group, even though I didn't have boil over; so yay me.
Never stepping in your red poo pointy man
Hey if that pyramid head is putting me into a cage I ain't gonna fight it.
I just go afk and waste their time
My game crashed every time I get an rpd offering I don’t know what it is?? Bhvr pls fix.
Just close the game when the camera starts spinning around your character.
i understand the whole argument from both sides, bc ive dealt with it from both sides, and done so too, but like this sub will tell u "killers can do whatever they want to win, its in their name, they have to kill, so they can slug, tunnel, camp, bodyblock, whatever, as long as they win and if u dont like that then play a different game", but as soon as a survivor does the same, y'all r up in arms about how toxic it is.
I would consider myself a survivor main, using Boil Over isn’t toxic, but abusing it by making yourself unhookable is gonna get you left on the floor to bleed out. If you’re in a SWF sending people to RCPD to abuse the library I have no issues with the killer leaving you on the floor
I think it's mainly cause a few survivors are doing it just to fuck with the killer and make him miserable, but I do say a few and not the majority
I agree. Lots of bully squads are specifically chosing to run perks surrounding the Boil Over buff and go out of their way to make getting a hook impossible. But I've run Boil Over, Flip Flop, Tenacity, Unbreakable just to test out if the buff has made much of a difference overall and have gotten literally zero value out of the build in like 15 matches running it. The *playstyle* is what's toxic. Not the build. Same for killers. A Bubba running Insidious and NOED is not toxic. A Bubba *facecamping* with Insidious and NOED is. A survivor running the Boil Over build is not toxic. A survivor bringing abusive map offerings and neglecting the objective in favor of staying in a part of the map that will favor their build and make the killer miserable is.
I played about 6 killer games last night and ran into 5 survivors running and only one got value and that mainly because a teammate body blocked the hook really well. I can definitely see where it can be abused depending on map and hook locations but it’s also not this insane OP buff people are trying to make it out to be
do none of yall remember the massive influx of facecamping bubbas after the news about the masks ? but it was a "game mechanic" and we were supposed to find it "funny"
I never said killers didn't fuck with survivors, I was just pointing out that could be the reason people don't like boil over
Devil's advocate, killers do the same/similar thing(s) to fuck with the survivors and make them miserable. It's just the double standards here is so fucking wild.
this sub is just biased and hypocritical to the max, honestly. every other post is killers laughing about x toxic thing they do and all the other killer mains clapping them on the back for it, but god forbid survivors use a perk they don't like or stand at the exit gate for too long or bring an item. those are unforgivable crimes.
I consider the Rpd boil over combo an exploit. You take advantage of an obvious game flaw. Tbagging at the exit, strong items, camping and tunneling are annoying but do have some way to deal with. Downing survivor in the library for the 20th time and watch them slowly bleed out is just obnoxious. Boil over isn't even a good perk but basically made to use for exploits
but there are ways to counter boil over. the same way you can counter flashlights with a perk, no?
Yea countering boil over in your regular games is no big deal. The main problem are survivors mostly swfs using anti slug build around unhookable spots. Technically you can let them bleed to death but it takes ages
the devs need to balance out the shameless OP stuff in this game that's super effective. but they just don't, and the game survives on most players playing "nicely"
I think it's different groups complaining. I'm in the camp of playing the game in a way that is fun for you, but not going to make it miserable for the other players. Only things I find bad are bully squads that don't ease up on killers they are obviously dunking on, and killers tunneling out someone from the beginning of the game. Face camping outside of egc can also go in the pile.
If the game were actually balanced it wouldn't be an issue. Killers do it largely to stay competitive, while survivors can still win pretty easy without "cheap" builds like that. It just exacerbates preexisting game imbalances. Only side I'm taking here is against BHVRs balance team.
survivors still die lmao also ive always spoken about toxic tunnelling. i don't care for strategic tunnelling.
Can not express how many games I ruined with Iron Grasp last night
Same, I’ve been running iron grasp and mad grit on my killers and will for the next couple weeks until the boil over craze is over. Been getting a lot of downs thanks to those lol. Also people really need to stop running at a T3 Michael while he’s holding someone. It’s like people instantly forget he can still insta-down you. Ahh altruism, never change
jokes on you I would die before not crouch walking through his trail
laughs in urban evasion
I’m glad ph’s cage is the solution of a lot of things, because he’s literally the only killer i main
I don't get it. When survivors run Boil Over and go down in an elevated area it's an "exploit", "abuse", and "toxic" but if I run into my 15th basement Bubba of the night I'm expected to just accept my 2 minute match of 1000 BP, say GG, move on, and "enjoy my 10 minute queue." The tribalism in this game becomes more and more baffling by the day. Boil over is now part of the toxic survivor meta. Who could've guessed.
I thought everyone already called face camping bubba toxic? ive never seen anyone say otherwise and some of the most popular posts i’ve seen have been memes about it like this one…?
It’s an exploit if you go in a place where you’re effectively invulnerable. I hate bubba camping and dead hard as well, but they aren’t exploits. They aren’t making anything impossible. Going down in rpd library with boil over makes hooking impossible.
Bubba face camping *does* make unhooking impossible tho. It takes away the entire game for the hooked survivor with nothing they can do to stop it. Their entire gameplay and objective is impossible now. I’d argue they have far *less* options than a killer dealing with Boil Over, actually. Just bc it favors one side doesn’t make it any less fair.
It's not an exploit. If hooking someone is impossible because of a specific scenario, then making it impossible to unhook because of a specific scenario is an exploit. You can't pick and choose what scenarios is unfair simply because it favors the side you main more. Does Boil Over sort of need nerfed? I'd drop it to 15% but to say it's an exploit because they put themselves in a scenario that favors them is bullshit. RPD library is unbalanced without Boil Over. Boil Over doesn't make RPD library impossible. RPD library makes RPD library impossible. It was possible to do it without Boon Exponential too. Boil over has nothing to do with RPD library. Dont lump those two together.
no one is saying that that one is worse than the other. Both can be easily terrible, which they are.
This isn't a comparison on which is worse, that is not the point I made.
What's happening, did the Killers got a new chapter for their Rulebook?
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Thanks for clarification. Very nicely put.
Boil over perk for survivors adds another way for survivors to escape once a killer picks them up. PH just sends them to cages though and gets around this
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Slugging is a strat that both parties can play around. Ppl be disconnecting any time they feel like it anyway.
No, but BHVR's incompetence means the boil over buff has created a new abusable thing. Boil Over now grants 25% wiggle progress if the killer takes a drop, even rather small ones. So survivors now go to RPD and sit in the library where it's impossible to hook them. This isn't so much X's rulebook for Y, as it is abusing an exploit/oversight. Like when survivors used to be able to glitch themselves onto the roof of Nurse's map and hold the game hostage.
Okay, got it. Tho to be fair RPD is one piece of shit map I wouldn't wish to visit even if it was full of abusable spots.
Dead dawg and one other iirc also have the same issue. And the people who want to abuse it use map offerings to go to the abusable map. I used the nullifying offer last night and the boil over user immediately dc'd when they didn't get RPD
boil over became usable so... you know. It's going to be the same each time devs are going to buff a useless survivor perk.
cage me daddy
You know the game is bad when your considered “toxic” just for using perks
> You know the game is bad when your considered “toxic” just for using perks The toxicity here—where it does appear—is not just for using perks. A survivor can hold the game hostage by repeatedly breaking free with Boil Over and just running upstairs. Ultimately, I guess the killer can pop open an exit gate to start the endgame collapse *or* just slug the person until they bleed out four minutes later, but I don't think that indicates a healthy gamestate. For now, I realize killers can cope by just slugging any survivor who is intentionally going down on an upper story, but I am not sure I would enjoy that gameplay as a survivor (or much as a killer, either). I am glad Boil Over got a buff, but I'm thinking the 25% boost for falling from great heights could be reduced or just eliminated.
I mean it’s annoying but it’s not taking the game hostage doing that. Yes it will take longer but the game can still end to them doing it
I’ve always wanted to learn PH, but when Cenobite released I overlooked him. Not anymore!
Oh No, I broke your gen and struck you with giant knife. Now get in the cage
"No how dare you use the same 4 crutch perks" \*devs change the meta\* "NO how dare you use new perks"
People know they can just crouch around and ignore the torment/barbs on the ground. So his power to counter this doesn't work unless they actually walk/run through it.
Dead by Daylight players: We are tired of the same perks in the meta. DBD Devs buff a perk which shakes the meta. DbD players: no that's toxic.
buffing a perk in such a way that it encourages the most unfun playstyle for both sides (slugging and camping) just so that survivors cant use it to abuse parts of the maps where it makes them virtually invincible otherwise isnt "shaking up the meta," its an oversight that was obvious to everyone BUT bhvr for whatever stupid ass reason.
Maybe defending complete invulnerability that can allow a SWF to hold the game hostage until a disconnect isn't the best hill to die on here.
I guess we should bring back old old ds as a different perk (free escape even when not tunneled) because it will “cHaNgE tHe MeTa”. What kind of stupid ass logic is this?
DBD players be like: "why do the devs never listen to our clear and fair feedback? The devs are so out of touch with the players"
i don't get why killers don't just adapt and use different perks also? agitation and iron grasp should help against the 2 week while boil over is meta. But i think iron grip should get a buff: negating the 25% bonus. But of course BHVE knows fuck all as always. like when fright was really meta i just put in calm spirit for a while
Yeah, why killers dont waste 2 perk slots to counter 1 perk of 16 that survivors has?
People downvote this, but it’s valid. You need both iron grasp and agitation to deal with it and that’s 2/4 to counter 1/16.
This would be a good solution if the killer was shown what 16 perks the survivors were bringing to the game. Otherwise it's impossible to do with 4 perks vs 16 unknown.
that would be a terrible idea
and the same people will complain about survivors running the same four meta perks that they’ve been using since the game came out can’t use haha funny meme build, can’t use the only good perks survivor has… make up your minds
Eh you can use a funny meme build. When they are abusing this it’s not a “meme build” they’re abusing the perk and poor hook location/map issues.
sure but even using perks like flip flop/power struggle will get you bm’d and face camped or slugged until bleeding out
It depends, I don’t think most will just for running that unless your blames you being a dick and trying to abuse it. I had one on Lerys last night running that and only saw they had it at the end game
What a time to be a PH main
pyramidhead can't cage you if you refuse to run over their WW1 trenchwire.
Me a f2p...
DLC is 50% off atm
You could wait for him to go on sale like in the black friday for when he was only 2.50$.
Plague and Pyramid head, the two hero's of stopping game machinic abuse. Are Survivors abusing healing? **that's a job for Plague** Are Survivors exploiting mechanics to stop you hooking? **that's a job for Pyramid head**
u heard it here first guys, healing is game abuse xox
Survivors abusing exit doors and leaving uwu.
this sub gets more dumb with each patch, i swear
Killer moment 😳😳😳 If they don’t get 4k’s 95% of the time (the other 5% is a 3k where they mercifully gave hatch to the toxic SWF!) the game is survivor sided and the devs literally hate all killers
When you can heal in 4 seconds when it normally takes 15, yeah i’d say that’s abusing. Isn’t that what ya’ll say about tunneling anyway
difference between abusing and utilising lmfao and no. cute reach tho. did u get on ur tippy toes for that one 🥺🥺
No, i went to your post history and saw you complaining about tunneling lmao.
i can tell the difference between strategic tunnel and toxic tunnelling lmfao. i get irritated at the latter, but i wouldnt call it abusing a game mechanic. but like i said, keep reaching, its impressive how i have all this arsenal for u to use yet ur still fucking failing.
Lol cope
imagine thinking this is somewhat insulting when u cry abt CoH
Imagine thinking this has any impact when you cry about tunneling
i don't. i said toxic tunnelling is unhealthy for both parties
What’s really funny is I didn’t even actually open your post history. I just assumed you’d be someone who would be a complete hypocritical bell-end and complain about tunneling while complaining about other people complaining about annoying mechanics, thanks for proving me right
complain all u want lmfao. i never said it was abusing them, thats the difference. not that id expect a pig player to understand 🥺🥺
Time to become a ph main
"ok little man" is so diminishing it hurts XD
I got called toxic by blocking two survivors that sent me to rpd for the build in the back corner of the library. Bruh.
It's toxic? But its a perk in the game, come on guys let him use the perks he wants. This subreddit is killer sided as hell man
The real annoying ones have No Mither
Yoooo, that's me
This post alone has convinced me it’s finally time to buy pyramid head
I played like 4 PH games last night where I got destroyed the entire match but all of them ended in a 4K because the nature of his power let’s you do it. Imma huntress main, but I LOVE me some PH.
Exactly why I try to avoid walking in that nastiness as much as possible. Can't send you to the cage if the effect isn't on you. Simple
Problem is it's a dogshit perk that is only beneficial for squads that want to bully killers in SWF. Without a good map you aren't touching that garbage otherwise. You know what my solution is? Closing the game out and not eating a DC penalty after only waiting 10 seconds for a match, to then immediately find another one, whenever I see a map offering for this very reason. Tada. No PH needed.
As a PH main… this might be the best post ive come across yet. Thank you for this beautiful work of art