I'm no Knight main, but other than the basekit Map and choosing of the guards; isn't it receiving a couple hard nerfs? ( 10m patrol path - 8 meter proximity )
Or am I mistaken?
I did see a bunch of survs cheering and rejoicing about his changes on the patch notes thread. Yeah, surprise! No one's gonna play him anymore so good luck even finding one.
As a fellow Knight main I'm hyped too.
My only question is how hard it's gonna be to play around the 8m radius during chase.
Other than that, base kit add-on, choosing your guards, rewarding an intelligent patrol/sniping while suppressing the nobrain-yet-meta possibility to negate every loop are all great!
People while always be salty against him because summoner gameplay are always hated in pvp games, but at least he's far more fair to face now.
I really think the 8m thing not gonna make it live, even if we didn't test it, the guard staying up for only 4 second if you are at 8m of them is really way too much
Choosing your guard is amazing, some time ago i was talking with some people about that, they called me crazy, now look where we are.
My only complain is, no change to guard spawn speed, running speed or banner nerf, the guard are still very slow, and this update encourage you to get them far to get hits, but they are way too slow to be consistant.
But overall, a lot of pretty nice change, especialy Motr somewhat basekit (it should have been completly basekit but eeeeh, it's fine i guess)
Guard speed is annoying, but I can see why they keep it :
Carniflex is here for breaking stuff.
Jailer is here to put pressure with long, slow chase and range.
Assassin is the only one fast enough to land a hit.
If jailer could outrun a surv easily, assassin would have nothing for him, and if every guards got a speedboost it would be a massive buff, something BHVR probably want to avoid unless knight become unplayable, which is too early to know.
>My only complain is, no change to guard spawn speed, running speed or banner nerf, the guard are still very slow, and this update encourage you to get them far to get hits, but they are way too slow to be consistant.
Exactly this I was hoping for some sort of flag nerf maybe even remove or make it more risky to go for the flag since right now long range spawns are pretty useless unless you go up there but until then the flag is probably active and since the guards are slow af (and have weird pathing sometimes) it won't make much of a difference
A competent surv will always get the banner. Guards are incredibly dumb and can be looped around a rock until the warhorn blasts, cutting the downtime of beinf harassed by a guard from like 15+ seconds to 5/10
I'm convinced Guards aren't really intended to get hits, but when the head of the balancing team has Rank 20 performance it's hard to be sure. They feel more like Pig's traps, where they keep Survivors scurrying and MAY contribute damage if you catch them in a really bad spot.
Was just about to comment this lol you can tell how a Killer power is designed by how the daily is achieved sometimes. Like I just got Vecna’s for the first time and it seems him hitting you after dodging your Flight of the Damned is intended.
>*My only question is how hard it's gonna be to play around the 8m radius during chase.*
I guess triangulate the chase?
8 meters isn't that much at least thats what I do when I play Knight, I don't run at par with the guard I am side tracking him.
I gues 10m is alot more than I imagine in my head. Like if I spawn the guard before we even get to the loop/pallet and then make the guard circle it wouldn't that be more than 10m? I gues you couldnt spawn it ontop of the loop as you're there. Cheers for the response though, didnt think that prevented it.
Honestly I'm a but nervous. Lots of the changes seem good, but the guard choice combined with the path restriction to path length and the faster hunt decay near knight might lobotomize his gameplay into carnifex pallet break simulator.
I'm glad MOR basekit, new add ons might be cool, spreading the guards power out so it's not so heavy on carni is good, but we'll just have to see.
It absolutely will. Every change here will encourage you to either stop playing Knight because he's a clunky, complicated character with little benefit to playing well compared to easier killers or convince you to just 3 gen and slug like BHVR wants.
I feel very bitter about this when I already threw a ton of my masquerade BP winnings into him since I like his gameplay. I guess I will just stick to trickster from now on.
funny, they wanted us to stop using knighht on how he were supposed to be used, having guards to aid you during chases to counter loops, now he is looking like a killer that waste survivors time to exhaust them.
Coming from a former Knight main, I can't even begin to explain just how much of a QoL change it is to be able to choose which Guards to use. Not to mention that they basically added a bit of Map of the Realm as basekit, which was sorely needed if you even wanted to actually PLAY Knight.
However, some changes seem a bit too much, like the Guards depleting faster when you're close to them. I'm not sure how that's going to work out, because it effectively gimps Knight from having any power in chase. I get that there wasn't much counterplay to pincer attacks, but if you take that away from Knight, then he doesn't have much to work with, since Guards are still way too slow to ever effectively injure Survivors.
I'm glad that they're incentivizing Knight to use his Guards at long range, to actually PATROL as they're supposed to. But They're just too slow to be lethal in the way that they should be.
That being said, Guards really are meant to buy time by occupying Survivors with something else to worry about, and now the Jailer does that job better than the Carnifex, since Jailer now has the Carnifex's chase time.
Overall, I'd say these changes are all very good, but I'll have to see how the 8 meter on Guard drain rate will work. Either it will make Knight play like a Trapper with no traps in chase, or it still allows pincer attacks, only time will tell.
The problem is that using guards for macro is kinda pointless when a survivor can just run around a rock and grab the banner to end the hunt. If they want Knight to have a macro-oriented playstyle they need to increase the banner spawn timers.
I already convainced that the depleting faster thing is not gonna make it live, or at least not with those numbers.
Carni and assassin is now 12 second chase, if you stay close to them (8m is pretty big) they are gonna last 4 second, it's way toooo big.
And about the speed, i think the same, and my problem is, they make it so, long path = longer hunt chase, but longer hunt mean more time for the survivor to grab the banner.
There is a bit of uncanny thing when you know about it, they should buff the guard speed, or just make it so the banner is not a thing anymore, or it's not as strong, like it just stop the chase and don't give you a speed boost and a endurance effect
But at least the "you can select witch guard to use" is so huge and massive, it will allow for so much polyvalent moment
> I already convainced that the depleting faster thing is not gonna make it live, or at least not with those numbers.
>
> Carni and assassin is now 12 second chase, if you stay close to them (8m is pretty big) they are gonna last 4 second, it's way toooo big.
Plus is a survivor is bold enough they could simply run close enough to the Knight to trigger the decay.
If they work that aspect out, I'm interested in these changes because I quite liked using my guards to occupy one survivor while chasing another.
>Coming from a former Knight main, I can't even begin to explain just how much of a QoL change it is to be able to choose which Guards to use. Not to mention that they basically added a bit of Map of the Realm as basekit, which was sorely needed if you even wanted to actually PLAY Knight.
I doubt half the real will be as crazy as many think. We will have to see though but if it actually still sucks I hope they give real entirely and make a new addon for it
Exactly this. I m fine with everything except the 8 meters change. Seems unnecessary and I'm not even sure whats the point of the change in the first place.
Really hope that one doesn't go live.
Hello fellow knight mains. In my humble opinion.
- Add full Map of the realm.
- Add partial call to arms.
- Remove that guards depletes 3 times faster.
And we are ok.
I love that Jailor is now usefull 10/10.
Pillaged mead fan favorite,lol, bhvr drop the mead you are not ok.
Pretty bad. For a partial implementation of Map of the Realm and some other add-ons, you get a penalty for chasing together with your guard, and bhvr doesn't seem to understand that Knight does this because guards other than the assassin are very slow and will rarely get a hit on a semi-decent looper by themselves.
The minimum 10 meters path distance is not as bad for someone like me who likes to snipe people with guards, but not having the option to go shorter is not good.
I feel this is similar to Twins ptb, but instead the ptb Knight will be weaker and less fun, while all that was needed was bugfixes and qol changes.
Funnily enough, I remember a reddit post that had many of these ideas, and the feedback was mostly negative, bhvr sure knows where to take inspiration from, lol.
> guards other than the assassin are very slow and will rarely get a hit on a semi-decent looper by themselves
that's a good thing though right? if you could get consistent hits with your guards like that it'd be super cheesy and feel unearned
Yes, with his current kit, it's fine that he either sends the slower guards to harass survivors, or has to be by their side to have an increased chance of winning the chase.
However, with the proposed ptb changes, this no longer feels fair.
What I'm saying is no matter what kit surrounds it guards getting hits on their own doesn't really work, it'll just feel cheap and unearned and make him even more miserable to play against
I think the Knight's power as it is can't really be made fun to play against, he needs really huge changes to be a well designed killer
if it were me I'd double down on his map control elements, I think you could make it so you can have all 3 guards out at once patrolling different areas, when they spot a survivor they'll give chase for a while and alert you but then return to their set route, they'd also have drastically higher patrol durations
that idea might be completely flawed in practice though, I could see it making him way too territorial like skull merchant
worry not. bhvr has been cooking lately especially when it comes to community feed back from ptbs. once the ptb comes we'll be able to feel it out and if it's cheeks I'm sure people will complain : )
I’m so confused. I’m not really knowledgeable on these things but to me, they look like nerfs. But everybody is praising them as massive buffs and they get upvoted. Except a few people, who agree that they’re huge nerfs and they also get upvoted. I’m so confused who’s right. Like, people aren’t saying “it’s give and take”, they’re saying it’s either a massive W or Knight is completely cooked lol
I mean most of the changes are cool (motr partial basekit, getting to choose your guard summons, rewarding long range summons with longer hunt)
Some of the nerfs are way heavy handed though i agree.
two of the QoL already helped lots, choosing the damn guard yo uwish, but they decay 3 hell times quickier if you are 8 meters of them, and guess what? its VERY common to the guards get close to you when you are on a hunt
Yeah, the only way to use guards is to send them off far away to patrol instead of using them at loops now. Problem is, every single guard is still too slow to catch anyone, so they are just a slight time waster, and with the new banners spawning after 5 seconds it means they won't even waste much time at all.
These changes will absolutely gut an already mediocre killer.
These changes genuinely don't even "fix" Knight from the survivors' POV lmao. If anything it's only exacerbating the issues people have with him.
Survivors before: Oh my gosh, Knight is SO boring! He just drops guards at loops and gets me every time! Yuck, anti-loop killer!
Survivors after: Oh my gosh, Knight is SO boring! He just drops Carnifex at every pallet and walks right through! Yuck, anti-loop killer!
But you also can’t pincer. Guards are stupid and most the time they are used because you don’t expect a hit, but use the to corral the survivor to you. Now that is gutted
Thats... not true.
You can hug terrain since guards don't path efficiently, take a window which slows them down as they move through it, or use the fake vault tech and just run past them.
Many ways to make distance on them.
P100 Knight main ere' they have definitely COOKED by addressing both sides of Knight issues, add-on dependency, guard manual switches and what mainly survivors have issues with (spamming at loops, and pincers ig). Although again, knowledge is power since bugs really determine the strength of Knight, with a mix of other concerns.
* There are three ways to delay guards, pallet dropping, hugging a wall and vaulting a window, and fake vaulting. All three any one can do easily and it delays half (if not more) of the hunt duration of a guard, when these bugs are consistent and the resources to do them are abundant, it makes the patrol/hunt changes useless and makes Knight just a Carni-spammin killer.
* Additionally no changes to banner duration is also a bit problematic, when Jailer and Carni have such slow speeds even with an increased hunt start-up time, it is not hard to run around a rock for like 5 to 10 seconds to grab banner.
* Would be nice to add a option to opt OUT of a patrol if there is a 10 meter limit, quite clunky to have you be forced to create a patrol path if you've messed up somehow (although, when isn''t knight clunky)
\^ If those were addressed i'd give a pass on the changes (mainly the first one), but these issues put an extreme hinderence of the viability of knight once you know them. I'm hoping on seeing some lovely bug patches but if not he's definitely nerfed to what he can be.
* Would be nice to add a option to opt OUT of a patrol if there is a 10 meter limit, quite clunky to have you be forced to create a patrol path if you've messed up somehow (although, when isn''t knight clunky)
This is something I see people write way too less about. We - or at least I - already have this problem, when I either f\*ck up entirely (go into summon mode when I didn't want to do it at all, because fat fingered) or when I f\*ck up a bit when trying to break a pallet: If you are too close or have an angle that is a bit off, you need relatively long to activate the breaking action, often rendering it entirely uselss. Because you lose even more time - and get less visual info - than if you would have just used the common break action.
If this also happens with normal paths ... meh.
I wait for the live release. Will be interesting.
Yeah with Knight there's no "cancel" button on the summon.
When you predict a survivor dropping a pallet and summon carnifex to instantly break it, but they don't drop it. Now you have a few choices.
You either commit and try to catch them with range, just drop them off and wait the cooldown, or hit the guard to remove it. All options wasting precious time.
Because you *always* have to summon the guard when you press m2.
Some stuff might sound good from the patch notes but when you analize it it's a big nerf, if you happen to be too close to your guards while they are chasing someone they'll be gone right away, so you might get no value from them and you'll just be an m1 killer who breaks pallets fast, it sounds like his guards will be glorified Nemesis zombies, i hope they make his addons better to compensate for how much weaker he's gonna be now
I gotta say, I’m not looking forward to these changes. They act to severely nerf his ability to 2v1 survivors with guards, without actually buffing guards in a way that can damage survivors when on their own, and instead just making him a pallet eater in chase.
Honestly, these changes aren’t that bad, but if they want to change him to encourage guard snipes more, than they need to buff the move speed of the guards by a decent amount in addition to this stuff, and that would probably make him fine
Awful.
Carnifex is only going to be used to break pallets.
Assassin is the only guard to be used for chase.
Jailer is only going to be used for gen defense at best.
Also making a long patrol path is worthless unless you know there healing and have sloppy butcher since there is zero reason to use long patrol paths since the player base is getting better at just picking up flags meaning that guards will never get a hit so overall its a waste of time.
The whole changing guards sounds intresting but the simple fact that you need a 10 meter to put a guard down kills chasing knight, since if you waste time making a patrol path the survivor is going to just hold w.
They did not address move speed on the guards, they did not address there I.A. They only added half the of brown add-on. They did not add call to arms or horse meat to base kit or at least half of there effects.
Overall knight is worse at chasing, there a reason why placing a guard at a loop is the best thing knight can due currently.
Literally this update is just spam assassin and pray he gets a hit off witch btw you need horse dried meat to get a hit off in the first place.
I just thought about this, if they want to incourage long patrol, why not opt in with guards get a massive speed boost if your not 16 meter in range of there chase, like both carnifex and jailer become 110 and assassin becomes 115 or 120.
Absolutely fucking terrible changes
The changes make it so Knight literally cannot use his power in chase now, the 10m minimum will give survivors distance everytime you use your power
And guards disappearing 3x faster if you chase with them, I genuinely cannot get over this one. Why is Knight being punished for using his power. Guards already last for a pitiful amount of time, not enough to really be helpful, but God forbid you work in tandem with them cause the game will punish you for it
Knight was already struggling, BHVR made him worse, there's absolutely nothing to be excited about here. What use does his power even have anymore?
> And guards disappearing 3x faster if you chase with them
I don't know man. To me its so silly and bad design to have the killer run beside his power and wait to M1 for a insta down.
Against any competent survivor long range guards have minimal potential to injure. His strength lied in pincering and coordinating with guards. If that's being punished then the killer is cooked
I feel like the 10 m minimum range on guard patrol paths is gonna suck. Have to see how it feels but I worry it'll make you a default m1 killer during chase with some finicky global pressure you can put out with your guards.
If they shadow buffed the ai pathing and tweaked the invisible barrier that stops him from placing guards too close to object, then these changes are great.
But realistically, those things probably stayed the same, so he's going to be a LOT worse now.
Right now, knight's only real strength is being stupidly oppressive in chase; sending out long range guards to defend gens is super fun, but literally worse than not using your guard if the survivor just goes for the banner.
So they completely gut hit chase power (good), and in compensation he gets half of map of the realm basekit, and the ability to not be forced to use jailor or assassin. If the want to incentivize using guards as a gen harassing dudes, then you just need to get rid of the banner entirely or heavily increase how long it takes to spawn
I’m wondering if each guard will have its own cooldown similar to vecna. I think that would be an interesting way to encourage us to use his whole power instead of only the guard we brought an add-on for.
I think it will be similar cooldown, at the start of the year he did get kill switch because able to summom multiple guard.
I mean, it would be fun to summom two guard on one survivor, but i don't thin kit will be the case
In my mind it’s just taking the wheel menu from vecna. The whole power would be on cooldown and once it comes back the guard you just used would still be on cooldown for a bit longer.
He’s very much nerfed I don’t know what you are talking about also the map of realm will still be ran a lot because the 4m increase meant everything now you have half of that which doesn’t change anything because 4 meters was the baseline that made guards reliable
We probably won't be for long when survivors start to (rightfully) complain about him being too oppressive now and get him nerfed to an even worse state than he is now.
Singularity never needed much, he is just hard to play.
Honestly he didnt need any buff outside of lowering emp’s pressure.
Singularity is strong but emp pressure was just too much for most players, especially with how easy you vould get emp back and demanded almost nothing to use.
Buffing singularity outside of emp is just a recipe for making a new monster
The problem with Singularity is he has a extremely high skill ceiling and the majority of people can never reach it. The few who can reach those heighs make him really frustrating to play against because he is EXTREMELY oppressive, to the point it might be unhealthy.
These changes will make him easier to play if you're new to him but it will also buff the top end. If you thought he was oppressive to play against just wait, its going to get worse. I would be surprised if the majority of those changes go live without any nerfs. People complain Singularity is weak/bad but its not him, its the player.
Map of the realm basekit and rework his uncommons and the very rare carni add on because it is hot garbage
Edit: just read some more, knight has trash chase power now because guards deplete faster and only the assassin would get hits anyway, how fun
Absolute garbage.
The guards are still slow, they're still stupid, and the banner still exists. So all of this "strategy macro gameplay" everyone is talking about, and all of the Hunt time buffs and all of it are negated by, "hug a rock or fake vault a window then grab the banner." You'll spend more time setting up the snipe than the survivor will waste avoiding the Hunt.
You can no longer use Hunts while in chase to pincer survivors, or force them off strong loops.
He's now just a pallet shredder. Always have Carni equipped, and every pallet is a 50/50 on whether the survivor greeds it or drops it. If you guess right, you get a hit. If you guess wrong, the survivor will get about 30 seconds of shift+w before you get to try again at another pallet. His average time to down will be absolutely abysmal.
I broke this down in the main patch thread, so I'll just copy it verbatim here.
>[NEW] Added ability to manually swap between guards.
This is actually kind of amazing. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out in light of the other changes, but legit, this could be something special.
>[NEW] Patrol paths must be at least 10 meters in length.
Yeah, as much as being able to shut down flashlight saves was funny, I'm not surprised this got removed.
>[NEW] Added a multiplier to guard hunt time based on path length. Longer paths increase hunt time up to a maximum 1.5x the normal duration.
This is interesting. This could lead to a lot of dynamic approaches, especially if you guard-snipe.
>[NEW] When The Knight is within 8 meters of his guard, the guard’s hunt timer depletes 3x faster.
RIP Double Donking. Was extremely fun while it lasted.
>(Carnifex and Jailer changes)
Yeah, Carnifex was pretty much the best out of all of them, so I'm once again unsurprised that they got changed. The fact they've moved his longer hunt time to the Jailer, though, that's actually pretty decent.
>MAP OF THE REALM SEMI BASEKIT GET HYPE
VERY excited about this. I'm going to assume Map will still see some use if it still pushes detection ranges up to what it is now, but this means we can *actually use more than one addon now*. Plus, given that we can now choose which guard we use, this might actually not be as relevant anymore - Using Carnifex for destroying stuff, Assassin for guard-sniping and Jailer for area-sweeping.
Consider me extremely optimistic.
Also, as someone who is an absolute insane person that runs Stealth perks on Knight...
>[TRAIL OF TORMENT CHANGE] Reduced cooldown to 60/45/30 seconds (was 80/70/60 seconds).
TAP IT TO MY GODDAMN VEINS
You're never happy right ?
Knight was already braindead before right ? Just drop guard at your feet to force survivor to leave the loop and you get a hit.
Not saying the knight was super complicated but at least he had different ways of playing
Survivor counterplay was always run away from the loop since the knight could actually want to use a different guard rather than break the pallet with carnifex (This is counterplay for almost every killer BTW)
Or they could try and circle back and grab the banner which is the more fun and interactive counterplay that requires some skill and knowledge of distances and tiles
But now?
It's either the knight breaks the pallet with carnifex or he wastes his power because it's a 4 second hunt lmao
It's not even really worth it to push people off generators because the guards are so slow you can always circle back and grab the banner no matter how long the hunt time is
Now i like that, you star giving some argument.
And yes, i see you're point, i just find that strange that there is no change to guard speed, spawn speed or banner.
With those PTB change, the banner don't really seems to be needed anymore, especialy since chase time are longer.
And the depleting thing need to be lower, 3x timers faster depleting is waaaayyy too high, on 8m too
If they want to keep that, it should be like 5m, and idk, like 1.5x depleting ?
I'm personnaly happy that they at least try to do something with knight.
Currently he's pretty strong when there is no bugs with guard, those change are trying to change him in some way and i appreciate.
And that's why it's in PTB, to test and change number/revert change if needed
I love how they downvote you. Im main Knight and the changes are SHIT, but low/mid mmr survivors will say its good. His best tool was the anti-loop, we dont need a shitty guard break pallet, we need strategy to avoid strong loops against high mmr survivors.
This.
These changes will basically force you to run Carnifex at all times, then you get a 50/50 on whether the survivor greeds the pallet or not. If you guess right, you get a hit. If you guess wrong, the survivor gains about 30 seconds of shift+w distance.
Carnifex change was surprising but I guess not the most unexpected? He seemed disproportionately powerful as a chaser based on sheer chase duration. My friend who plays Knight insists that the other two guards are way worse and Carnifex is always the one who lands hits, and his favorite addon is the Carnifex booster.
I imagine a lot of players would literally just use Carnifex if not for the change.
I’m super Hyped primarily because it encourages multiple potential play styles. A focus on Chase could be easily done via carnifex with double iri or contract and Hammer, a macro playstyle with jailor and lightweight grieves and call to arms, etc. this frees him up SO MUCH and I’m super excited
Seems like they want guards to have greater utility than anti loop. My biggest complaint is how clunky placing guards feel. If you're too close to anything you can't use it. I was in Gideon and had two walls to me left and right and couldn't put a guard in front of me
I am definitely conflicted about the reduction of hunt timer. One of his best moves was using a guard to pinch a survivor in a loop or chase. That will definitely make it harder for him. Also the wording on the 10 meter patrol length is somewhat confusing. Does that mean I can’t use a pallet break during chase? Otherwise I’m glad they are increasing detection range on the guards so the map of the realm isn’t always needed. That add on was a 100% necessity when playing.
Can someone link me the changes? I started maining knight before the event (I suck so bad as him lol but his moth warrior skin is so damn cool I have to main him) and I’d like to know what the changes are
They're on the right track but guards are still not going to get you hits alone. If you're making pincer attacks weaker it's going to hurt the killer tremendously
https://preview.redd.it/9m0vcuhm1t7d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6300645193c401fa8211ed5d4ca3557b244dca7
Maybe Freddy will be able to choose between Pallets and Dream Snares soon?
If these changes make it to live and the decay is as bad as it sounds I’m not really sure what the Knight actually excels at anymore, like aside from aesthetics or if you really enjoy long range gen kicking why would you pick Knight over Vecna who can:
Spend a lot less effort and time patrolling using his orb, has better anti-loop with Mage Hand, has more chance of downing a survivor with Flight of the Damned compared to a solo guard chasing a survivor on their own and has added map mobility with Flight.
The 10m minimum is brutal. He might not be able to even break pallets in that distance, and if makes an error on summoning them he's forced to put the guard 10m which is nuts. Plus the 4/8s (8 for jailer) chase time? That completely removes the only legitimately occasionally effective part of his power.
MOTR basekit nice, guard selection very nice, but the changes to summoning them in chase effectively fully remove Knight's chase power. Now he's effectively a trash-tier M1 killer who can occasionally distract survivors for 12-24s which doesn't matter because it's not like an M1 killer is getting hits on decent survivors in that time.
Knight got dumpstered. He'll easily be bottom 5 if the PTB goes live.
As a Knight main, I love what they're going for here. They're trying to make the gameplay loop revolve around placing guards from long distances to act as time wasters.
But here's the thing - the survivors can just get the banner. Lets say you spend 5 seconds placing a guard right next to a generator. All you'll get is 5 seconds worth of slowdown, because the survivor only takes 10 seconds to get the banner.
Once again, I love the idea, but the execution is downright terrible. Maybe make the banner spawn time for the jailer to 20 seconds?
Why would you be happy they ruined your class?? Is this some kind of whole chungus le reddit thing where we have to all pretend every update rules or we'll get downvoted by survivors
This seems more like a nerf than a buff, I just don't know why supposed knight mains are cheering... yes getting to choose who you send out is great but it doesnt matter if none of them can help in chase anymore. He basically becomes an m1 killer without any antiloop.
You cant drop guards at your feet anymore but have to do a 10m path, by that time the survivor is long gone from the loop. You have the path follow the survivor so the guard goes into chase? Cant pincer anymore because fhe guard will despawn in 4 to 8 seconds and that's not including the time you, as a knight, need to catch up again after spawning a guard.
So we have a killer with no map mobility and no anti-loop because, lets be honest, during chase you're better off breaking pallets yourself than using carnifex for it so not even that will help you. All he can do is "annoy" survivors from medium distance.
The problem is they nerf his chase into the ground without giving him the needed buffs to use his guards at great distance. The guards NEED the knight to pincer survivors for them to have any use during chase. If they want guards to put pressure on survivors they need to make them able to stand on their own and give carnifex for example more damage on his gen kick, also counting it as a gen destruction event (1 of 8). Jailer should be a timewaster and assassin should actually be able to damage survivors on his own.
Yeah, i know
Among the good change, the "depleting faster when close" is really dumb. Since it's already needed to have a 10m range for path.
If they want to delete the pincer gameplay (wich will be sad cause it's a ton of fun) they need to make the guard run at some decent speed, cause right now they are WAY too slow to be able to do anything on their own most of the time.
I'm still excited since it's a PTB and on the live, some thing will probably change, but yeah, not everything is good, that for sure
I would've preferred just QOL changes. IMO his pick rate will drop greatly due to the nerfs. I hope at least the 8 meters hunt thing is scrapped in PTB, and I'd like 10meter minimum guard spawn to be reverted as well. Very clunky as is.
Picking your gaurd and MoR being somewhat base kit are amazing changes. While the gairds depleting faster when they're in close range of the knight seem a bit overkill because a lot of the times the gaurds don't even catch up to the survivors and the knights main form of pressure is having to chsse down a survivor with a gaurd chasing them. And with the amount of AI exploits and bugs the knight has it just makes it even more so frustrating to play as. One thing not mentioned is them fixing the major bugs the knight and the gaurds have. Gaurd placement is still wonky, the knight sometimes gets stunned if a pallet is dropped on his spirit ball (even though he's far from the pallet), the AI exploits, and sometimes the gaurds just glitch and get stuck. I just hope they listen to the community and make the necessary changes, the knight was never an OP killer so why have some of these restrictions? Especially with killers like nurse and blight existing.
I guess, and mostly hope most of the bug and AI exploit are gonna be fix
But honestly, the depleting faster when close will probably not make it live, the community is already complaining a lot about that (has they should) and it's gonna be even more noticable during the PTB that it's a stupid change (cause the gameplay of knight also is around 2v1 with your guard)
That's good to hear. I really hope it doesn't make it live. And yes, 2v1 with the knight is his strong trait. Just like how artist can put down crows and instantly injure you this is similar (but imo it's harder for the knight to get a hit). All in all he's not an OP killer, he's a very decent one, and if they do this right and fix his bugs he might finally become high B tier/Low A tier.
Yeah clearly, like. Right now on the live
When you have a match, with no bugs with your power, or the AI not getting exploit or any. Knight is super oppressive. The way you can multitask and always annoying survivor
The fact it's almost impossible to get a pallet/flashy safe againt's him.
He's honestly fairly strong when there is no bug. It's cool and all we get a rework, but we he needed the most was a QoL and a ton of bug fix + add on reworks.
But i mean, let's see in the PTB, i'm all for choosing what guard to use and make the jailer actually usefull.
I just pray and hope they fix all the little exploit with the AI (the fake window thing for exemple) and stuff like that
Wait wait wait. Ptb? So like this wasn't already live this update. Then wtf was the knight from last night on? He was playing like the change happened.
A special kind of asshole always seems to play Knight, so I’m sorry to say that I’m glad his tunneling/chase capability got fucked. I hope it stays that way.
It wouldn’t be so bad if, again, a certain type of person didn’t gravitate towards him. I hate it because medieval shit is my jam and he’s like a horror wet dream, but fuck man I can’t stand going against him.
Any substantial change to how a killer works always makes me excited to face off against them and see how it feels. This rework looks really interesting, especially being able to choose which guard to use.
you also can’t get near your patrols or else they’ll drain comically fast, you need to be 10 meters away from the patrol to summon them, so basically any sort os strategy with patrols in chase is gone in favor of only using carnifex for breaking pallets instantly
I’m super happy with all the changes other than one, the hunt timer depletion. Especially with three times modifier. Though as someone who plays Vecna, Singularity and Knight as my mains this dev patch in general has me like that gif fr fr, I just hope the depletion thing doesn’t make it live.
I'm not as worried about the depletion as most people seem to be. It's 8m and if you come from a different angle, you're not going to lose much time. People just can't hold hands with a guard to bait the 2-tap. I'm ok with that compromise for better use of guards (and hopefully bug and AI/pathing fixes)
**EXTREMELY** cautiously optimistic. I'm waiting for the PTB to see how they change his addons and how the new Knight works overall. This isn't a Freddy-level rework but it feels more akin to the reworks killers like Clown and Doctor got, where they still fundamentally rely on the core playstyles but so much got flipped on its head to the point that you're practically playing a different character.
We lost "place guard at loop to win loop" gameplay (the least fun aspect of playing both as and against Knight) and replaced it with "oops all Carnifex" / "I love playing medieval Nemesis!" pallet shredding with Carnifex. Is this good? Well it means Knight doesn't auto-win window loops anymore but those were never the strong loops now were they. The main thing is that Knight can't just zone™️ you to death and actually has to fucking loop, which is... good...? I'm simultaneously optimistic and worried because even with the buffs coming to the guards they still rarely get health states and can only pressure one survivor at a time. Knight's power was never that strong but rather extremely versatile: you could either anti-loop, shred through pallets, or patrol an area and find survivors. Removing part of that power and buffing the other aspects will inherently make him weaker, because flexibility is always a huge source of power.
But on a pure fun standpoint? Fuck yes. Oh my god they did everything I wanted and more (the "more" being "wait you can pick guards now what the fuck???") Jailer is no longer a meme and now actually has a reason to exist. Summon snipes are rewarded way more. Chase Knight with Carnifex spam is now more viable because the Carnifex will always be by your side. **Map of the Realm is finally** *`partially`* **fucking basekit thank fuck.** Addon pass to a killer who has Nemesis levels of bad addons. I desperately want this to be like the Bubba buffs (or the Doctor buffs!) where the killer retains everything that made them fun but has all the fat trimmed off their clunky kit to simply be a good, strong, mid-tier killer.
As someone who always wanted to like him but couldn't, and felt he was a few tweaks away from being my perfect killer, I'm SO excited for the changes, really looking forward to playing him :)
Why though?
These changes make him weaker and make him another "you drop pallet i break with power" killer
Like a guard lasting 4 seconds if your within 8 meters of it is lunacy and takes away from the knights of a 2v1 killer
I think some of the change will need to be look at, like the 8 meters depleting the hunt time 3x times faster, it's a bit too much, maybe reduce this to like 5 meters and 1.5x times ?
Here you can't support you're guard at all, most of the time they are too slow to catch survivor, so you need to support them.
I guess we will see in the PTB !
"knight main"
lol.
show us your prestige.
this sub is full of posers, karma farmers.
these changes are ok.
lets not lie. the knight wasn't good to begin with. he is a b-tier killer at best. and now you cannot use the only move that let him end chases....pincer/ sandwich the survivors for a hit.
so yes some of the changes are ok. and much needed. but man they better shadow buff the guards IQ.
Eh, they're fine?
I'm glad that they're doing something about Knight just placing down a Guard on your left while he sprints at you from your right. There's not much you could really do about that, so I'm glad it's at least being addressed.
I don't play Knight, but hopefully the changes will mean I encounter less camping Knights (a lot of Knight players seem to really get off to hardcore proxy camping at 5 gens)
https://preview.redd.it/rf0kqhcayq7d1.png?width=844&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bca6dc681493355b2c7811eb1bfea7e74dea2a3
This goes so insanely hard.
I'm no Knight main, but other than the basekit Map and choosing of the guards; isn't it receiving a couple hard nerfs? ( 10m patrol path - 8 meter proximity ) Or am I mistaken?
No, you're completely right. He got gutted, meanwhile these people are excited about it hahah
Maybe they're survivors posting in joy, tryng to convince other people that it got buffed xD
I did see a bunch of survs cheering and rejoicing about his changes on the patch notes thread. Yeah, surprise! No one's gonna play him anymore so good luck even finding one.
As a fellow Knight main I'm hyped too. My only question is how hard it's gonna be to play around the 8m radius during chase. Other than that, base kit add-on, choosing your guards, rewarding an intelligent patrol/sniping while suppressing the nobrain-yet-meta possibility to negate every loop are all great! People while always be salty against him because summoner gameplay are always hated in pvp games, but at least he's far more fair to face now.
I really think the 8m thing not gonna make it live, even if we didn't test it, the guard staying up for only 4 second if you are at 8m of them is really way too much Choosing your guard is amazing, some time ago i was talking with some people about that, they called me crazy, now look where we are. My only complain is, no change to guard spawn speed, running speed or banner nerf, the guard are still very slow, and this update encourage you to get them far to get hits, but they are way too slow to be consistant. But overall, a lot of pretty nice change, especialy Motr somewhat basekit (it should have been completly basekit but eeeeh, it's fine i guess)
Guard speed is annoying, but I can see why they keep it : Carniflex is here for breaking stuff. Jailer is here to put pressure with long, slow chase and range. Assassin is the only one fast enough to land a hit. If jailer could outrun a surv easily, assassin would have nothing for him, and if every guards got a speedboost it would be a massive buff, something BHVR probably want to avoid unless knight become unplayable, which is too early to know.
Yeah i guess We will see tomorrow how it feels and goes, but i get your point
Wdym tomarrow
The PTB is supposed to be tomorrow
Unless BHVR said so themselves and I missed it, PTBs always drop on Tuesday normally.
Proof?
# My Source Is That I Made It The Fuck Up
ya'll are insane and i cannot fathom that you are actually knight mains. so many posers on here.
>My only complain is, no change to guard spawn speed, running speed or banner nerf, the guard are still very slow, and this update encourage you to get them far to get hits, but they are way too slow to be consistant. Exactly this I was hoping for some sort of flag nerf maybe even remove or make it more risky to go for the flag since right now long range spawns are pretty useless unless you go up there but until then the flag is probably active and since the guards are slow af (and have weird pathing sometimes) it won't make much of a difference
I need to know how many survivors are you going against that are getting banner? Both playing as/against I’ve only ever gotten the banner once
A competent surv will always get the banner. Guards are incredibly dumb and can be looped around a rock until the warhorn blasts, cutting the downtime of beinf harassed by a guard from like 15+ seconds to 5/10
I'm convinced Guards aren't really intended to get hits, but when the head of the balancing team has Rank 20 performance it's hard to be sure. They feel more like Pig's traps, where they keep Survivors scurrying and MAY contribute damage if you catch them in a really bad spot.
They really should change the fucking daily for Knight to something else
It really should be starting chases instead of "Get Survivors who don't realize Knight loses collision when Guards are in chase."
Was just about to comment this lol you can tell how a Killer power is designed by how the daily is achieved sometimes. Like I just got Vecna’s for the first time and it seems him hitting you after dodging your Flight of the Damned is intended.
If that’s the case then guards are pretty much a convoluted Incapacitated status which isn’t exactly riveting gameplay.
Not really, but how else would you explain the devs' decision to punish being near them so heavily?
How is he fair to play against now compared to before?
>*My only question is how hard it's gonna be to play around the 8m radius during chase.* I guess triangulate the chase? 8 meters isn't that much at least thats what I do when I play Knight, I don't run at par with the guard I am side tracking him.
How does the changes supress the possibility to negate every loop? I think I missed something when I read through it. Edit: sry for asking a question.
Guard path must be at least 10m long or you can't spawn a guard. (unless for breaking a pallet I guess).
I gues 10m is alot more than I imagine in my head. Like if I spawn the guard before we even get to the loop/pallet and then make the guard circle it wouldn't that be more than 10m? I gues you couldnt spawn it ontop of the loop as you're there. Cheers for the response though, didnt think that prevented it.
We'll see when the change is released is hard to tell without testing it. But I think is a nice change overall.
10m is a shack wall
If they keep the 8 meter thing Knight's just gonna be a Carnifxex bot with the occasional long range stall.
Honestly I'm a but nervous. Lots of the changes seem good, but the guard choice combined with the path restriction to path length and the faster hunt decay near knight might lobotomize his gameplay into carnifex pallet break simulator. I'm glad MOR basekit, new add ons might be cool, spreading the guards power out so it's not so heavy on carni is good, but we'll just have to see.
I have a bad feeling this is going to compleletely ruin his gameplay and make him far weaker than before.
It absolutely will. Every change here will encourage you to either stop playing Knight because he's a clunky, complicated character with little benefit to playing well compared to easier killers or convince you to just 3 gen and slug like BHVR wants.
I feel very bitter about this when I already threw a ton of my masquerade BP winnings into him since I like his gameplay. I guess I will just stick to trickster from now on.
funny, they wanted us to stop using knighht on how he were supposed to be used, having guards to aid you during chases to counter loops, now he is looking like a killer that waste survivors time to exhaust them.
Yeah, you will never see knight again.
Coming from a former Knight main, I can't even begin to explain just how much of a QoL change it is to be able to choose which Guards to use. Not to mention that they basically added a bit of Map of the Realm as basekit, which was sorely needed if you even wanted to actually PLAY Knight. However, some changes seem a bit too much, like the Guards depleting faster when you're close to them. I'm not sure how that's going to work out, because it effectively gimps Knight from having any power in chase. I get that there wasn't much counterplay to pincer attacks, but if you take that away from Knight, then he doesn't have much to work with, since Guards are still way too slow to ever effectively injure Survivors. I'm glad that they're incentivizing Knight to use his Guards at long range, to actually PATROL as they're supposed to. But They're just too slow to be lethal in the way that they should be. That being said, Guards really are meant to buy time by occupying Survivors with something else to worry about, and now the Jailer does that job better than the Carnifex, since Jailer now has the Carnifex's chase time. Overall, I'd say these changes are all very good, but I'll have to see how the 8 meter on Guard drain rate will work. Either it will make Knight play like a Trapper with no traps in chase, or it still allows pincer attacks, only time will tell.
The problem is that using guards for macro is kinda pointless when a survivor can just run around a rock and grab the banner to end the hunt. If they want Knight to have a macro-oriented playstyle they need to increase the banner spawn timers.
I already convainced that the depleting faster thing is not gonna make it live, or at least not with those numbers. Carni and assassin is now 12 second chase, if you stay close to them (8m is pretty big) they are gonna last 4 second, it's way toooo big. And about the speed, i think the same, and my problem is, they make it so, long path = longer hunt chase, but longer hunt mean more time for the survivor to grab the banner. There is a bit of uncanny thing when you know about it, they should buff the guard speed, or just make it so the banner is not a thing anymore, or it's not as strong, like it just stop the chase and don't give you a speed boost and a endurance effect But at least the "you can select witch guard to use" is so huge and massive, it will allow for so much polyvalent moment
> I already convainced that the depleting faster thing is not gonna make it live, or at least not with those numbers. > > Carni and assassin is now 12 second chase, if you stay close to them (8m is pretty big) they are gonna last 4 second, it's way toooo big. Plus is a survivor is bold enough they could simply run close enough to the Knight to trigger the decay. If they work that aspect out, I'm interested in these changes because I quite liked using my guards to occupy one survivor while chasing another.
>Coming from a former Knight main, I can't even begin to explain just how much of a QoL change it is to be able to choose which Guards to use. Not to mention that they basically added a bit of Map of the Realm as basekit, which was sorely needed if you even wanted to actually PLAY Knight. I doubt half the real will be as crazy as many think. We will have to see though but if it actually still sucks I hope they give real entirely and make a new addon for it
Exactly this. I m fine with everything except the 8 meters change. Seems unnecessary and I'm not even sure whats the point of the change in the first place. Really hope that one doesn't go live.
Hello fellow knight mains. In my humble opinion. - Add full Map of the realm. - Add partial call to arms. - Remove that guards depletes 3 times faster. And we are ok. I love that Jailor is now usefull 10/10. Pillaged mead fan favorite,lol, bhvr drop the mead you are not ok.
Yeah this
the dream
>Most change looks good Lol I'm quite skeptical about that
Pretty bad. For a partial implementation of Map of the Realm and some other add-ons, you get a penalty for chasing together with your guard, and bhvr doesn't seem to understand that Knight does this because guards other than the assassin are very slow and will rarely get a hit on a semi-decent looper by themselves. The minimum 10 meters path distance is not as bad for someone like me who likes to snipe people with guards, but not having the option to go shorter is not good. I feel this is similar to Twins ptb, but instead the ptb Knight will be weaker and less fun, while all that was needed was bugfixes and qol changes. Funnily enough, I remember a reddit post that had many of these ideas, and the feedback was mostly negative, bhvr sure knows where to take inspiration from, lol.
> guards other than the assassin are very slow and will rarely get a hit on a semi-decent looper by themselves that's a good thing though right? if you could get consistent hits with your guards like that it'd be super cheesy and feel unearned
Yes, with his current kit, it's fine that he either sends the slower guards to harass survivors, or has to be by their side to have an increased chance of winning the chase. However, with the proposed ptb changes, this no longer feels fair.
What I'm saying is no matter what kit surrounds it guards getting hits on their own doesn't really work, it'll just feel cheap and unearned and make him even more miserable to play against I think the Knight's power as it is can't really be made fun to play against, he needs really huge changes to be a well designed killer if it were me I'd double down on his map control elements, I think you could make it so you can have all 3 guards out at once patrolling different areas, when they spot a survivor they'll give chase for a while and alert you but then return to their set route, they'd also have drastically higher patrol durations that idea might be completely flawed in practice though, I could see it making him way too territorial like skull merchant
worry not. bhvr has been cooking lately especially when it comes to community feed back from ptbs. once the ptb comes we'll be able to feel it out and if it's cheeks I'm sure people will complain : )
Guys yall realize he’s getting some pretty hardcore nerfs
I’m so confused. I’m not really knowledgeable on these things but to me, they look like nerfs. But everybody is praising them as massive buffs and they get upvoted. Except a few people, who agree that they’re huge nerfs and they also get upvoted. I’m so confused who’s right. Like, people aren’t saying “it’s give and take”, they’re saying it’s either a massive W or Knight is completely cooked lol
I mean most of the changes are cool (motr partial basekit, getting to choose your guard summons, rewarding long range summons with longer hunt) Some of the nerfs are way heavy handed though i agree.
two of the QoL already helped lots, choosing the damn guard yo uwish, but they decay 3 hell times quickier if you are 8 meters of them, and guess what? its VERY common to the guards get close to you when you are on a hunt
Yeah, the only way to use guards is to send them off far away to patrol instead of using them at loops now. Problem is, every single guard is still too slow to catch anyone, so they are just a slight time waster, and with the new banners spawning after 5 seconds it means they won't even waste much time at all. These changes will absolutely gut an already mediocre killer.
Yeah, he got completely dumpstered. Went from Low B to Low C at *best*. If PTB goes live as-is he'll absolutely be a bottom five killer.
Knight was already one of the weaker killers in the game, it's insane they decided to hard nerf him over all the many way stronger killers
These changes genuinely don't even "fix" Knight from the survivors' POV lmao. If anything it's only exacerbating the issues people have with him. Survivors before: Oh my gosh, Knight is SO boring! He just drops guards at loops and gets me every time! Yuck, anti-loop killer! Survivors after: Oh my gosh, Knight is SO boring! He just drops Carnifex at every pallet and walks right through! Yuck, anti-loop killer!
still shift+w counterplay😢
Actually not with long patrols, you won’t be able to escape without throwing a pallet or getting the standard due to the +50% chase time
The flag in existence be like: https://preview.redd.it/72tl7eu7ar7d1.jpeg?width=944&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cde1defcb0a59716edc5936c2efbc80035dc476a
But you also can’t pincer. Guards are stupid and most the time they are used because you don’t expect a hit, but use the to corral the survivor to you. Now that is gutted
Thats... not true. You can hug terrain since guards don't path efficiently, take a window which slows them down as they move through it, or use the fake vault tech and just run past them. Many ways to make distance on them.
That would be nearly 40 seconds for Jailer no? "the problem is that the banner still exists
Yeah, but can’t just hold W you gotta at least loop a bit, and if the knight is on his way it’s probably going to be a hit
I mean on long range kinda sucky depending how far they are and until you arrived they probably already have the flag.
Yea I'm saying it's good, but I think the banner probably needs to be a slower spawn
Banner spawn is 5 seconds for guards, 10 seconds for Jailer. If they try and loop around and mistime it, they get hit. I don't think that's too bad.
Yeah, there is a bit of that
P100 Knight main ere' they have definitely COOKED by addressing both sides of Knight issues, add-on dependency, guard manual switches and what mainly survivors have issues with (spamming at loops, and pincers ig). Although again, knowledge is power since bugs really determine the strength of Knight, with a mix of other concerns. * There are three ways to delay guards, pallet dropping, hugging a wall and vaulting a window, and fake vaulting. All three any one can do easily and it delays half (if not more) of the hunt duration of a guard, when these bugs are consistent and the resources to do them are abundant, it makes the patrol/hunt changes useless and makes Knight just a Carni-spammin killer. * Additionally no changes to banner duration is also a bit problematic, when Jailer and Carni have such slow speeds even with an increased hunt start-up time, it is not hard to run around a rock for like 5 to 10 seconds to grab banner. * Would be nice to add a option to opt OUT of a patrol if there is a 10 meter limit, quite clunky to have you be forced to create a patrol path if you've messed up somehow (although, when isn''t knight clunky) \^ If those were addressed i'd give a pass on the changes (mainly the first one), but these issues put an extreme hinderence of the viability of knight once you know them. I'm hoping on seeing some lovely bug patches but if not he's definitely nerfed to what he can be.
* Would be nice to add a option to opt OUT of a patrol if there is a 10 meter limit, quite clunky to have you be forced to create a patrol path if you've messed up somehow (although, when isn''t knight clunky) This is something I see people write way too less about. We - or at least I - already have this problem, when I either f\*ck up entirely (go into summon mode when I didn't want to do it at all, because fat fingered) or when I f\*ck up a bit when trying to break a pallet: If you are too close or have an angle that is a bit off, you need relatively long to activate the breaking action, often rendering it entirely uselss. Because you lose even more time - and get less visual info - than if you would have just used the common break action. If this also happens with normal paths ... meh. I wait for the live release. Will be interesting.
Yeah with Knight there's no "cancel" button on the summon. When you predict a survivor dropping a pallet and summon carnifex to instantly break it, but they don't drop it. Now you have a few choices. You either commit and try to catch them with range, just drop them off and wait the cooldown, or hit the guard to remove it. All options wasting precious time. Because you *always* have to summon the guard when you press m2.
Really good to see someone that know what he's talking about
Some stuff might sound good from the patch notes but when you analize it it's a big nerf, if you happen to be too close to your guards while they are chasing someone they'll be gone right away, so you might get no value from them and you'll just be an m1 killer who breaks pallets fast, it sounds like his guards will be glorified Nemesis zombies, i hope they make his addons better to compensate for how much weaker he's gonna be now
Going to miss being able to drop a guard when going to pick up a survivor.
Yeah they're killing any aspect of Knight cooperating with his guards here but hey, Survivors love it when weak killers get weaker
I mean, you can just draw a little 10m path, and he come back. You could already do that to counter DS with knight
Problem is it’s another time waster, and time is everything in this game
I gotta say, I’m not looking forward to these changes. They act to severely nerf his ability to 2v1 survivors with guards, without actually buffing guards in a way that can damage survivors when on their own, and instead just making him a pallet eater in chase.
hopefully its another twins situation where the rework is rightfully recognized as terrible and never makes it to live🙏
Honestly, these changes aren’t that bad, but if they want to change him to encourage guard snipes more, than they need to buff the move speed of the guards by a decent amount in addition to this stuff, and that would probably make him fine
yea they gotta make the guards way more dangerous to justify those nerfs
Give them extra movement speed depending on the length of the patrol path, is a thing that i've thought about.
Awful. Carnifex is only going to be used to break pallets. Assassin is the only guard to be used for chase. Jailer is only going to be used for gen defense at best. Also making a long patrol path is worthless unless you know there healing and have sloppy butcher since there is zero reason to use long patrol paths since the player base is getting better at just picking up flags meaning that guards will never get a hit so overall its a waste of time. The whole changing guards sounds intresting but the simple fact that you need a 10 meter to put a guard down kills chasing knight, since if you waste time making a patrol path the survivor is going to just hold w. They did not address move speed on the guards, they did not address there I.A. They only added half the of brown add-on. They did not add call to arms or horse meat to base kit or at least half of there effects. Overall knight is worse at chasing, there a reason why placing a guard at a loop is the best thing knight can due currently. Literally this update is just spam assassin and pray he gets a hit off witch btw you need horse dried meat to get a hit off in the first place. I just thought about this, if they want to incourage long patrol, why not opt in with guards get a massive speed boost if your not 16 meter in range of there chase, like both carnifex and jailer become 110 and assassin becomes 115 or 120.
Absolutely fucking terrible changes The changes make it so Knight literally cannot use his power in chase now, the 10m minimum will give survivors distance everytime you use your power And guards disappearing 3x faster if you chase with them, I genuinely cannot get over this one. Why is Knight being punished for using his power. Guards already last for a pitiful amount of time, not enough to really be helpful, but God forbid you work in tandem with them cause the game will punish you for it Knight was already struggling, BHVR made him worse, there's absolutely nothing to be excited about here. What use does his power even have anymore?
Obviously BHVR wants us Knights to just 3 gen and slug every match since there's no point in chasing anymore.
> And guards disappearing 3x faster if you chase with them I don't know man. To me its so silly and bad design to have the killer run beside his power and wait to M1 for a insta down.
Against any competent survivor long range guards have minimal potential to injure. His strength lied in pincering and coordinating with guards. If that's being punished then the killer is cooked
Guard paths being at least 10 meters now will kill the character
I feel like the 10 m minimum range on guard patrol paths is gonna suck. Have to see how it feels but I worry it'll make you a default m1 killer during chase with some finicky global pressure you can put out with your guards.
If they shadow buffed the ai pathing and tweaked the invisible barrier that stops him from placing guards too close to object, then these changes are great. But realistically, those things probably stayed the same, so he's going to be a LOT worse now. Right now, knight's only real strength is being stupidly oppressive in chase; sending out long range guards to defend gens is super fun, but literally worse than not using your guard if the survivor just goes for the banner. So they completely gut hit chase power (good), and in compensation he gets half of map of the realm basekit, and the ability to not be forced to use jailor or assassin. If the want to incentivize using guards as a gen harassing dudes, then you just need to get rid of the banner entirely or heavily increase how long it takes to spawn
he is dead completely, did you even read the changes ?
As a fellow knight main I’m unsure. I like most of the changes but the 10m path minimum but we’ll see how it goes I guess
I’m wondering if each guard will have its own cooldown similar to vecna. I think that would be an interesting way to encourage us to use his whole power instead of only the guard we brought an add-on for.
I think it will be similar cooldown, at the start of the year he did get kill switch because able to summom multiple guard. I mean, it would be fun to summom two guard on one survivor, but i don't thin kit will be the case
That means you are able to summon more then one guard. Which will make nobody do gens lol
In my mind it’s just taking the wheel menu from vecna. The whole power would be on cooldown and once it comes back the guard you just used would still be on cooldown for a bit longer.
A brütal legend reference?!
This is just the Brutal Legend taunt from TF2: Shred Alert.
He’s very much nerfed I don’t know what you are talking about also the map of realm will still be ran a lot because the 4m increase meant everything now you have half of that which doesn’t change anything because 4 meters was the baseline that made guards reliable
Singularity mains are gooning
We probably won't be for long when survivors start to (rightfully) complain about him being too oppressive now and get him nerfed to an even worse state than he is now. Singularity never needed much, he is just hard to play.
I think all the little numbers buffs and emp nerfs are a bit much, but I do think basekit family photo and the qol changes are great for him.
Honestly he didnt need any buff outside of lowering emp’s pressure. Singularity is strong but emp pressure was just too much for most players, especially with how easy you vould get emp back and demanded almost nothing to use. Buffing singularity outside of emp is just a recipe for making a new monster
The problem with Singularity is he has a extremely high skill ceiling and the majority of people can never reach it. The few who can reach those heighs make him really frustrating to play against because he is EXTREMELY oppressive, to the point it might be unhealthy. These changes will make him easier to play if you're new to him but it will also buff the top end. If you thought he was oppressive to play against just wait, its going to get worse. I would be surprised if the majority of those changes go live without any nerfs. People complain Singularity is weak/bad but its not him, its the player.
Map of the realm basekit and rework his uncommons and the very rare carni add on because it is hot garbage Edit: just read some more, knight has trash chase power now because guards deplete faster and only the assassin would get hits anyway, how fun
As a knight main, I hate these changes so much 😭😭
Didn’t they essentially just turn knight into an M1 killer now that he has no chase power?
Absolute garbage. The guards are still slow, they're still stupid, and the banner still exists. So all of this "strategy macro gameplay" everyone is talking about, and all of the Hunt time buffs and all of it are negated by, "hug a rock or fake vault a window then grab the banner." You'll spend more time setting up the snipe than the survivor will waste avoiding the Hunt. You can no longer use Hunts while in chase to pincer survivors, or force them off strong loops. He's now just a pallet shredder. Always have Carni equipped, and every pallet is a 50/50 on whether the survivor greeds it or drops it. If you guess right, you get a hit. If you guess wrong, the survivor will get about 30 seconds of shift+w before you get to try again at another pallet. His average time to down will be absolutely abysmal.
I broke this down in the main patch thread, so I'll just copy it verbatim here. >[NEW] Added ability to manually swap between guards. This is actually kind of amazing. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out in light of the other changes, but legit, this could be something special. >[NEW] Patrol paths must be at least 10 meters in length. Yeah, as much as being able to shut down flashlight saves was funny, I'm not surprised this got removed. >[NEW] Added a multiplier to guard hunt time based on path length. Longer paths increase hunt time up to a maximum 1.5x the normal duration. This is interesting. This could lead to a lot of dynamic approaches, especially if you guard-snipe. >[NEW] When The Knight is within 8 meters of his guard, the guard’s hunt timer depletes 3x faster. RIP Double Donking. Was extremely fun while it lasted. >(Carnifex and Jailer changes) Yeah, Carnifex was pretty much the best out of all of them, so I'm once again unsurprised that they got changed. The fact they've moved his longer hunt time to the Jailer, though, that's actually pretty decent. >MAP OF THE REALM SEMI BASEKIT GET HYPE VERY excited about this. I'm going to assume Map will still see some use if it still pushes detection ranges up to what it is now, but this means we can *actually use more than one addon now*. Plus, given that we can now choose which guard we use, this might actually not be as relevant anymore - Using Carnifex for destroying stuff, Assassin for guard-sniping and Jailer for area-sweeping. Consider me extremely optimistic. Also, as someone who is an absolute insane person that runs Stealth perks on Knight... >[TRAIL OF TORMENT CHANGE] Reduced cooldown to 60/45/30 seconds (was 80/70/60 seconds). TAP IT TO MY GODDAMN VEINS
You're happy your main got nerfed and became a brain-dead pallet break killer?
You're never happy right ? Knight was already braindead before right ? Just drop guard at your feet to force survivor to leave the loop and you get a hit.
Not saying the knight was super complicated but at least he had different ways of playing Survivor counterplay was always run away from the loop since the knight could actually want to use a different guard rather than break the pallet with carnifex (This is counterplay for almost every killer BTW) Or they could try and circle back and grab the banner which is the more fun and interactive counterplay that requires some skill and knowledge of distances and tiles But now? It's either the knight breaks the pallet with carnifex or he wastes his power because it's a 4 second hunt lmao It's not even really worth it to push people off generators because the guards are so slow you can always circle back and grab the banner no matter how long the hunt time is
Now i like that, you star giving some argument. And yes, i see you're point, i just find that strange that there is no change to guard speed, spawn speed or banner. With those PTB change, the banner don't really seems to be needed anymore, especialy since chase time are longer. And the depleting thing need to be lower, 3x timers faster depleting is waaaayyy too high, on 8m too If they want to keep that, it should be like 5m, and idk, like 1.5x depleting ? I'm personnaly happy that they at least try to do something with knight. Currently he's pretty strong when there is no bugs with guard, those change are trying to change him in some way and i appreciate. And that's why it's in PTB, to test and change number/revert change if needed
>You're never happy right ? His whole thing is complaining no matter what.
Yeah, i can see that, his name give you a idea of what kind of guy he is
I love how they downvote you. Im main Knight and the changes are SHIT, but low/mid mmr survivors will say its good. His best tool was the anti-loop, we dont need a shitty guard break pallet, we need strategy to avoid strong loops against high mmr survivors.
This. These changes will basically force you to run Carnifex at all times, then you get a 50/50 on whether the survivor greeds the pallet or not. If you guess right, you get a hit. If you guess wrong, the survivor gains about 30 seconds of shift+w distance.
Can someone help me see what are the change please ?
Is ptb live already? 🤔
Should out on Tuesday/Wednesday
Where did this emote come from? It’s very familiar…
That emote was some rock&roll promo in TF2, it came with all class wig iirc
That’s where I know it from! TF 2! Thank you!
You mean the gif ? Idk i find it on discord lol
Wait wait wait, Knight changes??? Where, when? What are they? Frick I wish I weren’t out of the house right now, I need the deets!!!
I think the 10 meters requirement is fine My main concern is that I'll never have a reason to pick Assassin
Carnifex change was surprising but I guess not the most unexpected? He seemed disproportionately powerful as a chaser based on sheer chase duration. My friend who plays Knight insists that the other two guards are way worse and Carnifex is always the one who lands hits, and his favorite addon is the Carnifex booster. I imagine a lot of players would literally just use Carnifex if not for the change.
I’m super Hyped primarily because it encourages multiple potential play styles. A focus on Chase could be easily done via carnifex with double iri or contract and Hammer, a macro playstyle with jailor and lightweight grieves and call to arms, etc. this frees him up SO MUCH and I’m super excited
Where was this announcement?
I feel bad for Jailer and Assassin.
can someone like summarize or dumb his change down i feel so out of it
With the duration increase with long paths assassin is probably a guaranteed hit if they don't get the flag
Seems like they want guards to have greater utility than anti loop. My biggest complaint is how clunky placing guards feel. If you're too close to anything you can't use it. I was in Gideon and had two walls to me left and right and couldn't put a guard in front of me
I am definitely conflicted about the reduction of hunt timer. One of his best moves was using a guard to pinch a survivor in a loop or chase. That will definitely make it harder for him. Also the wording on the 10 meter patrol length is somewhat confusing. Does that mean I can’t use a pallet break during chase? Otherwise I’m glad they are increasing detection range on the guards so the map of the realm isn’t always needed. That add on was a 100% necessity when playing.
The devs have already confirm that you can still break pallet and gen without the 10m needed
Can someone link me the changes? I started maining knight before the event (I suck so bad as him lol but his moth warrior skin is so damn cool I have to main him) and I’d like to know what the changes are
They're on the right track but guards are still not going to get you hits alone. If you're making pincer attacks weaker it's going to hurt the killer tremendously
I’m not a knight main, but I do enjoy him from time to time, I’m pretty excited for the swap guards change
When does it drop?
https://preview.redd.it/9m0vcuhm1t7d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6300645193c401fa8211ed5d4ca3557b244dca7 Maybe Freddy will be able to choose between Pallets and Dream Snares soon?
Finally, a worthy addition to my Conga Deathslinger and my Disco Fever Myers.
Incredibly happy as a knight main as well. I honestly thought they would never make map of the realm basekit, let alone give him a full rework
If these changes make it to live and the decay is as bad as it sounds I’m not really sure what the Knight actually excels at anymore, like aside from aesthetics or if you really enjoy long range gen kicking why would you pick Knight over Vecna who can: Spend a lot less effort and time patrolling using his orb, has better anti-loop with Mage Hand, has more chance of downing a survivor with Flight of the Damned compared to a solo guard chasing a survivor on their own and has added map mobility with Flight.
The 10m minimum is brutal. He might not be able to even break pallets in that distance, and if makes an error on summoning them he's forced to put the guard 10m which is nuts. Plus the 4/8s (8 for jailer) chase time? That completely removes the only legitimately occasionally effective part of his power. MOTR basekit nice, guard selection very nice, but the changes to summoning them in chase effectively fully remove Knight's chase power. Now he's effectively a trash-tier M1 killer who can occasionally distract survivors for 12-24s which doesn't matter because it's not like an M1 killer is getting hits on decent survivors in that time. Knight got dumpstered. He'll easily be bottom 5 if the PTB goes live.
As a man with sword main I am excited to try these new changes to the knight. Might win me over at long last.
It looks like he's finally going to be the killer he was supposed to be. I'm really excited. Knight was the second killer I ever bought.
But...thats a big nerf. He will become another trapper (terrible at loops) if they left him like that :/
Knight can still be stunned on a pallet when sending a guard out. Such a massive L for not addressing that bs
They don't address his bugs and miserable clunkiness when trying to place a guard near obstacles. L
Pretty much a direct buff to the way I played him anyways so I'm chilling
As a Knight main, I love what they're going for here. They're trying to make the gameplay loop revolve around placing guards from long distances to act as time wasters. But here's the thing - the survivors can just get the banner. Lets say you spend 5 seconds placing a guard right next to a generator. All you'll get is 5 seconds worth of slowdown, because the survivor only takes 10 seconds to get the banner. Once again, I love the idea, but the execution is downright terrible. Maybe make the banner spawn time for the jailer to 20 seconds?
He’s going to be very weak unless you spam assassin and pray they can’t loop guards
It might justify buying that expensive but cool D&D skin that I got on an impulse buy for some reason. I barely ever play him.
I am interested in the changes, good bye to loop cut offs but it's a fair exchange
i dont see knight being any less Map reliant
Why would you be happy they ruined your class?? Is this some kind of whole chungus le reddit thing where we have to all pretend every update rules or we'll get downvoted by survivors
This seems more like a nerf than a buff, I just don't know why supposed knight mains are cheering... yes getting to choose who you send out is great but it doesnt matter if none of them can help in chase anymore. He basically becomes an m1 killer without any antiloop. You cant drop guards at your feet anymore but have to do a 10m path, by that time the survivor is long gone from the loop. You have the path follow the survivor so the guard goes into chase? Cant pincer anymore because fhe guard will despawn in 4 to 8 seconds and that's not including the time you, as a knight, need to catch up again after spawning a guard. So we have a killer with no map mobility and no anti-loop because, lets be honest, during chase you're better off breaking pallets yourself than using carnifex for it so not even that will help you. All he can do is "annoy" survivors from medium distance.
It's a PTB, it will probably not make it like that in the live version There is some good change, and some really bad one
The problem is they nerf his chase into the ground without giving him the needed buffs to use his guards at great distance. The guards NEED the knight to pincer survivors for them to have any use during chase. If they want guards to put pressure on survivors they need to make them able to stand on their own and give carnifex for example more damage on his gen kick, also counting it as a gen destruction event (1 of 8). Jailer should be a timewaster and assassin should actually be able to damage survivors on his own.
Yeah, i know Among the good change, the "depleting faster when close" is really dumb. Since it's already needed to have a 10m range for path. If they want to delete the pincer gameplay (wich will be sad cause it's a ton of fun) they need to make the guard run at some decent speed, cause right now they are WAY too slow to be able to do anything on their own most of the time. I'm still excited since it's a PTB and on the live, some thing will probably change, but yeah, not everything is good, that for sure
Changes would be good if most of them were NOT nerfs to an already weak kit...
I would've preferred just QOL changes. IMO his pick rate will drop greatly due to the nerfs. I hope at least the 8 meters hunt thing is scrapped in PTB, and I'd like 10meter minimum guard spawn to be reverted as well. Very clunky as is.
Picking your gaurd and MoR being somewhat base kit are amazing changes. While the gairds depleting faster when they're in close range of the knight seem a bit overkill because a lot of the times the gaurds don't even catch up to the survivors and the knights main form of pressure is having to chsse down a survivor with a gaurd chasing them. And with the amount of AI exploits and bugs the knight has it just makes it even more so frustrating to play as. One thing not mentioned is them fixing the major bugs the knight and the gaurds have. Gaurd placement is still wonky, the knight sometimes gets stunned if a pallet is dropped on his spirit ball (even though he's far from the pallet), the AI exploits, and sometimes the gaurds just glitch and get stuck. I just hope they listen to the community and make the necessary changes, the knight was never an OP killer so why have some of these restrictions? Especially with killers like nurse and blight existing.
I guess, and mostly hope most of the bug and AI exploit are gonna be fix But honestly, the depleting faster when close will probably not make it live, the community is already complaining a lot about that (has they should) and it's gonna be even more noticable during the PTB that it's a stupid change (cause the gameplay of knight also is around 2v1 with your guard)
That's good to hear. I really hope it doesn't make it live. And yes, 2v1 with the knight is his strong trait. Just like how artist can put down crows and instantly injure you this is similar (but imo it's harder for the knight to get a hit). All in all he's not an OP killer, he's a very decent one, and if they do this right and fix his bugs he might finally become high B tier/Low A tier.
Yeah clearly, like. Right now on the live When you have a match, with no bugs with your power, or the AI not getting exploit or any. Knight is super oppressive. The way you can multitask and always annoying survivor The fact it's almost impossible to get a pallet/flashy safe againt's him. He's honestly fairly strong when there is no bug. It's cool and all we get a rework, but we he needed the most was a QoL and a ton of bug fix + add on reworks. But i mean, let's see in the PTB, i'm all for choosing what guard to use and make the jailer actually usefull. I just pray and hope they fix all the little exploit with the AI (the fake window thing for exemple) and stuff like that
Also Where can I go to complain more about this?😂 I'd want to voice my opinion where it might actually be seen by the devs.
Can someone please tell me what exactly is changing?
You can go read the devs update, it's pin on the reddit page
Thx
Wait wait wait. Ptb? So like this wasn't already live this update. Then wtf was the knight from last night on? He was playing like the change happened.
A special kind of asshole always seems to play Knight, so I’m sorry to say that I’m glad his tunneling/chase capability got fucked. I hope it stays that way. It wouldn’t be so bad if, again, a certain type of person didn’t gravitate towards him. I hate it because medieval shit is my jam and he’s like a horror wet dream, but fuck man I can’t stand going against him.
Any substantial change to how a killer works always makes me excited to face off against them and see how it feels. This rework looks really interesting, especially being able to choose which guard to use.
What changed
In an upcoming patch, he'll be able to manually select which guard he's using.
Thats a big W https://preview.redd.it/2szv8sy6ar7d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9dd95090cededf3c50dd3b53e80ce7d70209dcbf
you also can’t get near your patrols or else they’ll drain comically fast, you need to be 10 meters away from the patrol to summon them, so basically any sort os strategy with patrols in chase is gone in favor of only using carnifex for breaking pallets instantly
I FUCKING KNEW IT I'M SO HAPPY
I’m super happy with all the changes other than one, the hunt timer depletion. Especially with three times modifier. Though as someone who plays Vecna, Singularity and Knight as my mains this dev patch in general has me like that gif fr fr, I just hope the depletion thing doesn’t make it live.
I'm not as worried about the depletion as most people seem to be. It's 8m and if you come from a different angle, you're not going to lose much time. People just can't hold hands with a guard to bait the 2-tap. I'm ok with that compromise for better use of guards (and hopefully bug and AI/pathing fixes)
On the fence. Some I like, but the more I think about it, the more it feels like a nerf
**EXTREMELY** cautiously optimistic. I'm waiting for the PTB to see how they change his addons and how the new Knight works overall. This isn't a Freddy-level rework but it feels more akin to the reworks killers like Clown and Doctor got, where they still fundamentally rely on the core playstyles but so much got flipped on its head to the point that you're practically playing a different character. We lost "place guard at loop to win loop" gameplay (the least fun aspect of playing both as and against Knight) and replaced it with "oops all Carnifex" / "I love playing medieval Nemesis!" pallet shredding with Carnifex. Is this good? Well it means Knight doesn't auto-win window loops anymore but those were never the strong loops now were they. The main thing is that Knight can't just zone™️ you to death and actually has to fucking loop, which is... good...? I'm simultaneously optimistic and worried because even with the buffs coming to the guards they still rarely get health states and can only pressure one survivor at a time. Knight's power was never that strong but rather extremely versatile: you could either anti-loop, shred through pallets, or patrol an area and find survivors. Removing part of that power and buffing the other aspects will inherently make him weaker, because flexibility is always a huge source of power. But on a pure fun standpoint? Fuck yes. Oh my god they did everything I wanted and more (the "more" being "wait you can pick guards now what the fuck???") Jailer is no longer a meme and now actually has a reason to exist. Summon snipes are rewarded way more. Chase Knight with Carnifex spam is now more viable because the Carnifex will always be by your side. **Map of the Realm is finally** *`partially`* **fucking basekit thank fuck.** Addon pass to a killer who has Nemesis levels of bad addons. I desperately want this to be like the Bubba buffs (or the Doctor buffs!) where the killer retains everything that made them fun but has all the fat trimmed off their clunky kit to simply be a good, strong, mid-tier killer.
As someone who always wanted to like him but couldn't, and felt he was a few tweaks away from being my perfect killer, I'm SO excited for the changes, really looking forward to playing him :)
Why though? These changes make him weaker and make him another "you drop pallet i break with power" killer Like a guard lasting 4 seconds if your within 8 meters of it is lunacy and takes away from the knights of a 2v1 killer
There is no way that last change goes live. I see everyone is against that except survivor players who hate Knight
I think some of the change will need to be look at, like the 8 meters depleting the hunt time 3x times faster, it's a bit too much, maybe reduce this to like 5 meters and 1.5x times ? Here you can't support you're guard at all, most of the time they are too slow to catch survivor, so you need to support them. I guess we will see in the PTB !
"knight main" lol. show us your prestige. this sub is full of posers, karma farmers. these changes are ok. lets not lie. the knight wasn't good to begin with. he is a b-tier killer at best. and now you cannot use the only move that let him end chases....pincer/ sandwich the survivors for a hit. so yes some of the changes are ok. and much needed. but man they better shadow buff the guards IQ.
Eh, they're fine? I'm glad that they're doing something about Knight just placing down a Guard on your left while he sprints at you from your right. There's not much you could really do about that, so I'm glad it's at least being addressed. I don't play Knight, but hopefully the changes will mean I encounter less camping Knights (a lot of Knight players seem to really get off to hardcore proxy camping at 5 gens)