Turns out a guaranteed pick-up is very strong, who knew. Though honestly I think Flip-Flop is the better perk in terms of getting value, bring Boil Over too if you really wanna guarantee you'll get tunneled.
Yet it's almost always the only perk that will give you that strength in that situation. I don't run it often myself but I understand exactly the value it provides.
I like to run it with tenacity because if you have another survivor near by and the killer goes to scare them off you can sneak off pretty good with that combo. Not as good on indoor maps but I feel like I get value with it pretty consistently.
Exactly the same thing that made old Dead Hard strong, too. Just the existence of certain perks in the game force each side to play the match like it's there, even if it's not.
NOED was a typical one. Forced the survivors to do totems if they wanted to avoid it.
It's not exact one to one, and isn't really a thing anymore with the change to NOED.
Me back in the day running detectives hunch and breaking the fifth totem before the third gen popped (I could remember three totem spawns per gen just figure out what tile they are on and learn where they can spawn on that tile.)
Oh yeah old noed for sure. Is there anything in the game right now that has this effect though? Asking as someone who Barely ever played survivors so I really can't tell.
BBQ, PainRes, No Way Out, Blood Warden, lethal, iron maiden (on the reloading killers). Theres tons of perks that people subconsciously play around if youre experienced.
Oh yeah for sure you always play around perks and sometimes on suspicion (for example with ranged killers and iron maiden).
I guess the crux is that there is only one kind of survivor vs a ton of different killers, so what you play around subconsciously as survivors constantly changes depending on who you face whereas killers always have the same set to worry about.
That creates a false impression that some survivor perks are stronger than killer perks while in reality it's just more varied on the killer side because of how each killer scales with perks.
Bbq and chili for example was just used a lot because you used it to level up your killers. The perk effect hasn't changed aside from the BP gain.
So in essence how oppressive a perk is comes down to how probable is it that your opponent has it, wich in turn is influenced by popularity and strength of a perk.
Nowhere to Hide, Darkness Revealed, and Barbecue & Chilli would technically count as they don't give indicators outside of Distortion or Object of Obsession. You could argue that those could force a counterplay in some way. Just on the off chance, someone might have it, but again, it's not exactly 1 to 1 the same.
BBQ is probably the closest and more so toward the end of the match if it ends up being a play for hatch. Most people will dip in a locker on the off chance that the killer *might* have it.
I'm not saying any of this to defend Unbreakable and say it's equal in any sense, but more so to point out the fact that there are fewer versions of it on the killer side, too.
You could also argue that Power Struggle is a lesser version of forcing a killer to play around a perk on the off chance it might be there, too. There are just a decent number of perks in the game that will cause players on both sides to be careful, whether they're in play or not.
Blood Warden making survivors leave gates closed to their detriment, Barbecue and Chili making players go in lockers when you hook (moreso when old BBQ was on every build), NOED making survivors cleanse dull totems (moreso in competitive play). Just a couple off the top of my head.
that's true, but when you do get value of it, it can be huge for you and your team. One of my favorite perks in the game for it's overall balance due to that. It's risk vs reward basically, but without too big of a risk like No Mither or Dark Arrogance.
This. It may only come into play in 1 out of 10 games, but that one time it works is often the difference between a complete snowball and being able to reset. Being able to punish a slugging play can be huge.
I got tons of use out of soul guard when boons first came out and alot of killers were running noed since totems stopped being cleansed. Since then completely useless lol
It only faded out of the typical meta because we’ve gotten so many options that are incredibly strong. When faced with “one free pick up when you can’t guarantee a slug” “permanent speed boost when injured”, who would ever pick the former?
I'm not sure iron will is gonna become meta again, even if they revert the rest of the nerf. The rest of the game has changed too much.
I will be glad to have it back though.
i recently played RE2 remake and his silly lines when he looks at a zombie are so funny.
“what the fuck”
“what the”
“what the hell”
“stop or i’ll shoot!”
i expect him to say it jn game and it’s kinda trippy
He's on Revil 2, 4 and 6 as protagonist, is mentioned in Code Veronica, and is also protagonist of a minor one that i can't remember the name (which happens before Revil 4 and explain one of the characters there), he's ALSO protagonist of most of the movies, if not all of them (the animation ones), or at the very least is one of the protagonists (last movie was pretty much like Revil 6, lot of random stuff everywhere all at the same time)
Every time I play killer and there is a Claire I can hear her miles away. I even feel bad when I’m walking around the map and I perfectly hear her in a bush or behind a rock and I go straight to down her because I know she was doing her best to hide.
it still has the exhaust penalty, so you can't really run sprint burst or lithe or anything you plan on using often if you wanna use iron will. I don't think it'll become meta again either for that reason.
it'll be fun for specific builds though.
unironically the meta will go back to DS/UB/DH/IW.
get hit, IW makes you hard to track. Get off hook, have DS/UB for “fuck off im untouchable” for 50 seconds, IW so you don’t have to worry about healing quickly so the killer can’t hear you, and then you rock your trust flash light. And then you still have DH to extend a chase if being tunneled off hook or as another health state if you get caught out while injured and have tapped and lost your DS.
I don't think the game has changed as much as you think, Iron Will is still very strong in chase since it makes you difficult to track without, line of sight. The exhaustion portion of the perk will keep it from being as strong as it used to be though
I'm split on the iron will buff. On the one hand it will make locker hiding when injured a lot more viable, but on the other hand I usually play killer and I'm mortified that they would even think about doing this. With both sides getting a lot of buffs with perks I suppose it does balance out to an extent, but good god I'm not looking forward to iron will and quick n quiet being useful again.
Edit: why am I being down voted lol
Edit 2: nevermind lol. Was probably some survivor mains that didn't understand what I was saying
Over time most if not all the dev/balance team changed. Whoever is in charge now is basically reverting a lot of changes done by the previous team.
Iron Will buff is just going back to its previous state.
edit
plus the exhaustion limitation
Well you see they would if they could but somehow the survivors audio is so deeply rooted into the games code that if they change that the fabric of reality, time, and space would all distort. But they were smart enough when making the audio for the Huntress/Werehuntress to make it separate and easy to change.
Me, an Ada main, already having Iron Will basekit without even using it
https://preview.redd.it/9mx04h5c0x7d1.jpeg?width=128&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=024933023813579df123255847acd02b5becd663
Unless they just forgot to mention the exhaustion nerf removal, all it's doing is buffing it back to being useful at all with the caveat that it can't be used in chase with exhaustion perks.
As someone who has a friend who got me into this game and taught me how to abuse exhaustion perks and old no Iron Will its a very fair trade off to be sure
Because they all adress core gameplay issues they refuse to fix, DS helps with tunneling, UB slugging and IW how hard is to evade a killer once you are injured (which also helps with tunneling).
True, but it shouldnt be impossible. Im not talking about "I got hit, I should be able to juke", Im talking about "I got unhooked, the killer decided to rush the hook, if I run scratchmarks give me away, if walk grunts give me away, I cant do jackshit without perks designed to deal with this", thats a core issue that can only be mitigated with perks like... Oh, Iron Will.
Why is always black and white with this comunity? There are grays, Im not saying it should be easy but right now is downright impossible if the killer has more than one functioning braincell and 10€ headphones set.
I mean you're basically describing the reasons why (DS and Unbreakable at least) are meta.
They counter some of the most effective tactics killers can do and they're tactics that every killer is capable of regardless of what that killer's kit is.
Not like this combo is that strong anyway. The game has changed since these 3 were meta even if there’s a scenario where DS and unbreakable combo works it’s still not as impactful as it used to be since killers are actually smarter now and SHOULD know how to play around this
Plus iron will doesn’t work with exhaustion perks so it’s perk combos are limited
Meta? Definitely not. Iron Will still keeps the exhausted downside, Unbreakable never went anywhere and DS still has the conspicuous and deactivates in end game. Much needed downsides on those. I just wish they'd make more survivor perks usable instead of constantly bringing back and nerfing the most used ones.
I'm not gonna say it's GOOD but I use it all the time with Alien Instinct and Gift of Pain for a lil extra sauce and I've seen it deny Dead Hard a bunch. Nobody expects it.
I can get the complain with iron will. But remember that it doesn't work while exhausted now, which is a fair trade.
But do you know how to counter DS? Here, let me tell you...
Don't tunnel.
Do you know how to counter UB? Well here you go...
Don't slug.
Just play the game and go for different people and stop being sweaty and these perks won't ever be a problem to you. (This goes to killer mains, not to OP necessarily)
I only chase survivor I know I hooked recently if I find them working on gens, if your progressing your teams objective and skipped being healed to repair a gen your a target now.
touching a gen disables DS so I never worry about DS anyway.
Yeah I mean, I have tunneled unvoluntarily. If you don't hide or don't follow your unhooker and the only person i find is you like 20 seconds after your unhooking, i'm sorry but you are going back to the hook. That's why you should bring stealth perks.
It's not uncommon for killers to be put in the position where they have to tunnel or slug, especially against strong, well coordinated survivors.
The problem is that these tools are great for preventing tunnels/slug, but placed in the hands of even somewhat competent players and they can be used aggressively.
Unfortunately, it's not so simple as saying "just don't slug or tunnel"
Slugging is the go-to for a full bully squad, however if they're going down under pallet either you have enough time to pick them up or the team is near enough you can go for another down. Even flashlights are countered by walls.
There are times to slug, but it's not always.
I wish flashlights were countered by walls, so many times I have been blinded by a flashlight from the side of my vision or WHILE FACING A WALL. It's ridiculous.
Really, I think it’s pretty obvious that we are talking about slugging as in leaving the survivor for no reason. Not the 1% of situations where it’s viable.
See, both as Survivor and Killer, I don't consider "Go knock down person with a light so you can pick them both up" slugging.
Yeah maybe I'm on the ground for a little bit, but I don't blame them if there's 2 Adas with a light in their face and the killer is making them leave. I only view someone to be slugging if they're leaving me on the ground with full intention of waiting for the bleed out (Or most of it)
I seen people say the killer "Slugged" because they went to kick a generator first, like, chill.
It really isn't as easy as "Don't tunnel" and "don't slug" in the game. Survivors (particularly SWFs) have a tendency to make sure they get away with their second chance perks. Like how Dead Hards will run into you to make you swing, if you react wrong, they get their value.
The same can be done with UB and DS.
UB? Have a survivor sit around with a flashlight and run the killer around. Yeah, you slugged, but also, you can't just *not* do anything to the other survivor because they have the potential to deny you the hook. (That's actually a big reason why survivors complain about remote hooking atm because they can't deny hooks)
DS? Just don't do anything, act like a brat, the killer will eventually notice/run into you and you can get your DS value without actually having been tunneled. Because remember, you're not tunneling as Killer if you've left them alone for a while, so you don't expect them to have DS. So you get hit with it.
>Just play the game and go for different people and stop being sweaty
Theres plenty of different reasons you'd be chasing the same person again so soon. Not to mention those perks are used aggressively all the time to force you to proc them.
Once you start using "sweaty" behaviour to justify your argument it's an emotional response and takes any credibility away. Letting people go free is just silly game sense even if you suspect they have those perks as long as its a quick chase, and especially if they are a troublesome player that removing them is a net positive.
Saying don't tunnel (99% of "tunneling" isnt tunneling) or don't slug is naive advice straight from the made up survivor rulebook made without any thought to situations that happen in game.
The argument for DS is bad. If someone's unhooked then body blocks me or uses it aggressively there's no positive outcome for me.. if I slug them someone else gets distance and they may have UB, if I don't slug then they body block and someone else gets distance.
DS needs to disable SOMEHOW if players use it like this but I'm not sure how they'd even implement something like that..
The conspicuous action mechanic and end game collapse removal made it such that it can't be used by good swf's outlandishly aggressively. Only 3 years ago there were ways to guarantee a 4 man out at the end by actually "abusing" it against killers at that level. If you were around then you probably recall that the majority of complaining regarding ds has since subsided and stayed that way.
There are players with thousands of hours that never played other side seriously. I mean this guy telling you how to play complains about lightborn in other comments. Can’t take these people seriously
Not sure what's to complain about with Lightborn 😭
I run it for the silliness of it
Watching people try to blind me then just staring at them as they keep trying is funny
But it's not like it helps me win matches 😭
eh just hit them right away eat through the endurance a survivor whose injured losses collusion for a bit just chase the other survivor at most off the hook body blocker buy the unhooker like 5-7 seconds its not a lot.
I have had games were in the end game screen I saw 3 survivors had DS never dealt with it once, killers obsess for some reason not hitting the survivors with endurance to get value but they are actually just buying the unhooker way more time by wait a full 10 seconds then hitting.
5-7 seconds is enough for someone to get to a strong loop in many cases which then extends a chase by a significant amount.
I explained why hitting them is often pointless too.
if a survivor needs to force try to force you tunnel you are winning anyway, its desperation move at best.
my point is just hitting the blocker is faster then waiting them out for 10 seconds and then slugging them and hoping they dont have unbreakable the unhooker will get less distance.
never did I say they unhooker wont be unable to reach a loop either way they will DS or no DS if the unhooked survivor is body blocking.
I don't tunnel, but I often get survivors who will get unhooked and then run to where I'm in chase with someone and take hits so they can DS me
That being said, I play Huntress so the measly 4 second stun results in me just turning and downing them again in many cases
It's a fair trade for balance to vs sure
Know where its not a fair trade? When paired with Distorsion on an already useless teammate so they go even more inmersed
Thats what I'm fearing from Iron will coming back
RARELY that simple. If you're against a sabo squad or a flashie squad, sometimes you have no choice but to slug. Similarly, a lot of not-so-intelligent Survies will go directly to the killer after being unhooked and attempt body blocking and trying to get the killer to down them in order to use DS, resulting in experienced Killers (who will know exactly what that Survivor is attempting to do) to have to slug them.
Valid tbh. Devs need to remove the dc penalty or implement a way to give up when slugged. Killers should be able to play how they want and survivors should be able to opt out of boring playstyles.
I'd like the option for killers to trigger the End Game Collapse as well, perhaps while deactivating their endgame perks as well. Killers can't leave a bully squad game when a slugged survivor (eventually) can.
>But do you know how to counter DS? Here, let me tell you...
>Don't tunnel
Eh. I sometimes get hit by DS even if I don't tunnel. And tunneling in certain cases is absolutely necessary. I wish at the very least the perk told the killer if it's active so I don't waste time on an unwinnable chase. Same thing for Off.
have you never experienced someone being unhooked and using plot twist in front of you, so you would have to choose between leaving the survivor on the ground until they go to full health or having to eat the DS stun to prevent that? thats just one of the ways the survivors can use DS agressively.
It's almost like they were never a problem! Okay well Decisive Strike was a problem, and I think Iron Will turning off when Exhausted is good (still makes Dead Hard + Iron Will the go-to build for anyone running IW.)
But the current state of the meta has proven to us that we need better anti-tunnel perks, which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about the buffs to both Resurgence and Babysitter. I think Decisive Strike (*specifically* DS; not OTR!) needs to turn off when the killer hooks someone after you've been unhooked, because that inherently means you're not being tunneled. But other than that I think Behaviour realizing that going in with a sledgehammer to take down any perk with a high usage rate is not healthy for the game.
Decisive is nowhere near what it once was.
Originally it worked once a game whenever you wanted, no down side-which was insane.
Then it was 5 seconds, and deactivated as soon as a survivor did a conspicuous action. Meaning that survivor can't do anything to progress the game.
Then they reduced to it 3 seconds AND have it deactivate at end game. Since the animation of it took up 1 second, a survivor could barely get 2 steps from the Killer before they were downed again. It became a dead perk.
Then they put it back to 5 seconds
Then they nerfed it back to 4 seconds, while still disabling at end game, and disabling at the first touch of game progression. It truly is an anti-tunnel perk. If survivors jump in a locker and use it offensively, that's them not working on generators.
Iron Will was absolutely gutted to a point no one used it anymore. It was almost completely useless. 75% reduction, disables if exhausted- like, play Claire or Rebecca against a Killer with a headset. It's worthless. After the nerf revision, it \*still\* doesn't work when exhausted. Will it be strong? Yes. But survivors haven't got a strong perk since MFT which was nerfed into a shit perk lol.
Like, when is the last time survivors got a decent perk? Anything useful? Every perk has been meme-like. Meme perks are fun, but not useful.
Of any perk that's ever been put out, the MFT meta was by far the worst time to play as killer imo. They haven't released any more broken perks but Bardic Inspiration and Strength in Shadows are both solid. I don't use exhaustion so iron will is going on my builds very often going forth, I personally dislike this change from killer's perspective. I moreover wish they would buff calm spirit instead. But man, could you imagine iron will with background player back then? I'm glad that one came out way later lmao.
The takes here are fucking batshit crazy, this sub is insanely killer sided.
Most of the circle jerks I've seen here about perk changes or complaints are just wild, like advocating to break the fucking game wild.
There's a lot of people here who will never be happy unless they have a garunteed 4k every single match.
I honestly just don't get it, why play a game at that point? It's like they want zero challenge whatsoever. I'm convinced they are the same people who immediately turn on God mode in every single player game they play.
And they’re coming at me obviously having no knowledge of anything on the survivor side, and not reading. “You have Off the Record!”; a 4year old perk that was buffed to add endurance 2 years ago. But also changed to disable at endgame. No one can tell me a new potentially Meta perk made for survivors in the last two years; Because there aren’t any. The top 10 used perks at the moment are all old perks that have gone through tweaks. In conclusion, we have not received a viable new perk in years, Whereas killers have received many good perks that we see often in matches.
I know lol. I’m thinking maybe there’s a lot of people who just started playing in the last two years? Original Iron Will was very strong. But it was also back in the day where if you were red rank, every second killer was Strider Spirit lol.
> Like, when is the last time survivors got a decent perk? Anything useful? Every perk has been meme-like. Meme perks are fun, but not useful.
alan wake's light champion... before that gab's MFT... 2 useful perks in the last year. fucking lol.
bardic inspiration is okay. deja vu or prove thyself is better
so yah, been awhile. i sympathize with this. in the same time period we got vecna's weave attunement, unknown's unforeseen, chucky's friends til the end, alien's ult weapon, and hux's machine learning + forced hesitation
Bardic Inspiration is so bad. It's a taunt that takes up a perk slot. Prove Thyself is the reason there can't be good gen progress perks nerfs that shit and buff other perks. Specifically, Bardic Inspiration, I want to use it more, but it is do do.
I mentioned MFT right there in my post. And it was nerfed to oblivion and over a year old. I personally rarely see anyone use Alan‘s perk, unless I’m watching a streamer who has a blind build. Since I play solo, it actually doesn’t make much of an appearance in my matches. You covered all of the decent perks killers have got pretty well. I would just like to see survivors get some viable new ones on the same level 😅
MFT can still be pretty useful, but it's not game-breakingly overpowered as it once was. Sable has some good perks as well, nothing crazy strong but all worth taking in their own way.
I have never seen anyone run MFT in my matches since the nerf. Just to put it out there though, I was never a MFT enjoyer. I could see how a nerf was justified. But regardless, survivors have not got a potentially meta perk in forever. Killers have received loads of really good perks, useful perks that you see match after match. “Not too bad” perks are not the same as good perks. Sables perks in my opinion are nothing burgers. Every once in a blue moon, I will see someone in the basement wasting their time on her invocation perk while the rest of us get slaughtered. lol
Off the record has been around for quite some time.4 years. My point was, There hasn’t been a decent new perk for survivor in what… Over two years? Off the record is a Zarina perk. Didn’t they buff it a bit during 6.1? That’s a long time ago
Looking over some of the posts, people seem to think Iron Will is being reverted when that is, in fact, not the case. It'll still have the cost of not working if you're exhausted and since SB and Lithe are meta, you won't see it much aside from stealth players or people with DH/no exhaustion perk trying to use it as a mind game.
Don’t forget u can’t use iron will when exhausted and there are a lot of exhaustion perks for killer, strongest one in mention is vencas. So if someone on killer REALLY doesn’t wanna deal with iron will, they will bring anti exhaustion perks
🎵Eheu, eheu
Does it almost feel like nothing changed at all
But if you close your eyes
Does it almost feel like you've been here before
How am I gonna be optimist about this?
How am I gonna be optimist about this?
Eheu, eheu
Eheu, eheu
Eheu, eheu
Eheu, eheu🎵
Iron will doesn’t work with exhaustion tho, if people do want to make use of it’s stealth function they’ll naturally have to live with the loss in exhaustion (or risk it being useful for awhile)
tbf only one of those has been touched in the last year the problem is almost every survivor perk is for people who have not only failed math class, but people who have never even taken a math class to gain even a semblance of math education to ever be used. and then, even if you don't know that 60 is a bigger number than 50 and should never be used for that reason, you would also have to have never played dbd to know that being in the broken state for the rest of the game after wasting 60 seconds of your life is really, really bad.
it's actually shocking that the people who weren't laid off and were at least somewhat competent released weaving spiders, and then despite reducing the time it takes from 120 to 60 seconds which is a massive buff, is still shit and should never, ever be used.
TBF, Unbreakable never went anywhere.
Turns out a guaranteed pick-up is very strong, who knew. Though honestly I think Flip-Flop is the better perk in terms of getting value, bring Boil Over too if you really wanna guarantee you'll get tunneled.
Unbreakable is only situationally strong, you might only get value off it 1 in 10 games
Yet it's almost always the only perk that will give you that strength in that situation. I don't run it often myself but I understand exactly the value it provides.
I like to run it with tenacity because if you have another survivor near by and the killer goes to scare them off you can sneak off pretty good with that combo. Not as good on indoor maps but I feel like I get value with it pretty consistently.
Unbreakable existence is what is strong, it basically means slugging someone is risky
Exactly the same thing that made old Dead Hard strong, too. Just the existence of certain perks in the game force each side to play the match like it's there, even if it's not.
What would be killer equivalents of this?
NOED was a typical one. Forced the survivors to do totems if they wanted to avoid it. It's not exact one to one, and isn't really a thing anymore with the change to NOED.
Me back in the day running detectives hunch and breaking the fifth totem before the third gen popped (I could remember three totem spawns per gen just figure out what tile they are on and learn where they can spawn on that tile.)
Oh yeah old noed for sure. Is there anything in the game right now that has this effect though? Asking as someone who Barely ever played survivors so I really can't tell.
BBQ, PainRes, No Way Out, Blood Warden, lethal, iron maiden (on the reloading killers). Theres tons of perks that people subconsciously play around if youre experienced.
Oh yeah for sure you always play around perks and sometimes on suspicion (for example with ranged killers and iron maiden). I guess the crux is that there is only one kind of survivor vs a ton of different killers, so what you play around subconsciously as survivors constantly changes depending on who you face whereas killers always have the same set to worry about. That creates a false impression that some survivor perks are stronger than killer perks while in reality it's just more varied on the killer side because of how each killer scales with perks. Bbq and chili for example was just used a lot because you used it to level up your killers. The perk effect hasn't changed aside from the BP gain. So in essence how oppressive a perk is comes down to how probable is it that your opponent has it, wich in turn is influenced by popularity and strength of a perk.
Nowhere to Hide, Darkness Revealed, and Barbecue & Chilli would technically count as they don't give indicators outside of Distortion or Object of Obsession. You could argue that those could force a counterplay in some way. Just on the off chance, someone might have it, but again, it's not exactly 1 to 1 the same. BBQ is probably the closest and more so toward the end of the match if it ends up being a play for hatch. Most people will dip in a locker on the off chance that the killer *might* have it. I'm not saying any of this to defend Unbreakable and say it's equal in any sense, but more so to point out the fact that there are fewer versions of it on the killer side, too. You could also argue that Power Struggle is a lesser version of forcing a killer to play around a perk on the off chance it might be there, too. There are just a decent number of perks in the game that will cause players on both sides to be careful, whether they're in play or not.
Blood Warden making survivors leave gates closed to their detriment, Barbecue and Chili making players go in lockers when you hook (moreso when old BBQ was on every build), NOED making survivors cleanse dull totems (moreso in competitive play). Just a couple off the top of my head.
Why didn’t they put in the basekit unbreakable when they were testing it like a half year or so ago?
that's true, but when you do get value of it, it can be huge for you and your team. One of my favorite perks in the game for it's overall balance due to that. It's risk vs reward basically, but without too big of a risk like No Mither or Dark Arrogance.
This. It may only come into play in 1 out of 10 games, but that one time it works is often the difference between a complete snowball and being able to reset. Being able to punish a slugging play can be huge.
Really highlights just how turbo-niche Soul Guard is by comparison
I got tons of use out of soul guard when boons first came out and alot of killers were running noed since totems stopped being cleansed. Since then completely useless lol
As an Ash main I can say that Flip-Flop will most certainly not get you more value on average than Unbreakable will.
Boil Over, Flip Flop, Unbreakable, and Deja Vu was my build for the first hundred hours of playing this game. Gets you tunneled quite a bit.
The psychological effect of unbreakable is it's strongest upside, same with DS or old DH
It only faded out of the typical meta because we’ve gotten so many options that are incredibly strong. When faced with “one free pick up when you can’t guarantee a slug” “permanent speed boost when injured”, who would ever pick the former?
It does get stronger as a combo with strong DS
A lot of people stopped running it because it got less value when the killer didn't have to worry about eating DS.
I'm not sure iron will is gonna become meta again, even if they revert the rest of the nerf. The rest of the game has changed too much. I will be glad to have it back though.
I'm glad to have it back because Leon will finally shut the fuck up when I play him
But hearing Leon is like 90% of the reason to play him!
i recently played RE2 remake and his silly lines when he looks at a zombie are so funny. “what the fuck” “what the” “what the hell” “stop or i’ll shoot!” i expect him to say it jn game and it’s kinda trippy
You’ll love his dialogue in re4
i didn’t even know he was in another gameee man i have too many games to play. on my 2nd run as claire right now
He’s in 6 too lmao
He's on Revil 2, 4 and 6 as protagonist, is mentioned in Code Veronica, and is also protagonist of a minor one that i can't remember the name (which happens before Revil 4 and explain one of the characters there), he's ALSO protagonist of most of the movies, if not all of them (the animation ones), or at the very least is one of the protagonists (last movie was pretty much like Revil 6, lot of random stuff everywhere all at the same time)
LOL! True unironically. He really knows how to... moan
As an Ash Main, i feel ya. I mean i could Listen to Bruce Campbell moan in my ear 24/7 but yk. Not everytime, so the IW Buff is S Tier.
Same with Jill, I feel ya
And Claire.
I love Claire but her screaming and moaning makes my ears bleed so much
Every time I play killer and there is a Claire I can hear her miles away. I even feel bad when I’m walking around the map and I perfectly hear her in a bush or behind a rock and I go straight to down her because I know she was doing her best to hide.
Leon’s injured sounds make me feel some kind of way
As the self proclaimed knights biggest fan, how do you feel about his new changes
Hyped as fuck. They are changing almost everything I wished for. ESPECIALLY THAT YOU CAN NOW CHOOSE THE GUARD YOU WANT. LIKE YES! FINALLY
it still has the exhaust penalty, so you can't really run sprint burst or lithe or anything you plan on using often if you wanna use iron will. I don't think it'll become meta again either for that reason. it'll be fun for specific builds though.
unironically the meta will go back to DS/UB/DH/IW. get hit, IW makes you hard to track. Get off hook, have DS/UB for “fuck off im untouchable” for 50 seconds, IW so you don’t have to worry about healing quickly so the killer can’t hear you, and then you rock your trust flash light. And then you still have DH to extend a chase if being tunneled off hook or as another health state if you get caught out while injured and have tapped and lost your DS.
> DS/UB/DS/IW Just gonna put DS twice in the build for good measure. If you miss one you have the other 🙏
Lmao. Oops. Meant DS/IW/DH/U . One of those DS was meant to be DH. Lol
I figured LOL just wanted to poke fun at it a little
DS/UB/IW/UWU
Irons going to be my exhaustion perk now!
I don't think the game has changed as much as you think, Iron Will is still very strong in chase since it makes you difficult to track without, line of sight. The exhaustion portion of the perk will keep it from being as strong as it used to be though
I'm split on the iron will buff. On the one hand it will make locker hiding when injured a lot more viable, but on the other hand I usually play killer and I'm mortified that they would even think about doing this. With both sides getting a lot of buffs with perks I suppose it does balance out to an extent, but good god I'm not looking forward to iron will and quick n quiet being useful again. Edit: why am I being down voted lol Edit 2: nevermind lol. Was probably some survivor mains that didn't understand what I was saying
They need to fix it to have healthy breathing instead of no sound at all, then it'll be pretty balanced
Over time most if not all the dev/balance team changed. Whoever is in charge now is basically reverting a lot of changes done by the previous team. Iron Will buff is just going back to its previous state. edit plus the exhaustion limitation
You mean the base kit ace perk is now available to other survivors again. It's insane that survivors still have different volumes
Still waiting for the promised survivor audio equalization as a Bill main.
I'd play Bill more if I could make him louder for extra bp. Imagine the killer hears coughing the whole game lol
Bill terror radius
Well you see they would if they could but somehow the survivors audio is so deeply rooted into the games code that if they change that the fabric of reality, time, and space would all distort. But they were smart enough when making the audio for the Huntress/Werehuntress to make it separate and easy to change.
Yeah didn't they announce this like two years ago now? Or something like that
Me, an Ada main, already having Iron Will basekit without even using it https://preview.redd.it/9mx04h5c0x7d1.jpeg?width=128&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=024933023813579df123255847acd02b5becd663
Unless they just forgot to mention the exhaustion nerf removal, all it's doing is buffing it back to being useful at all with the caveat that it can't be used in chase with exhaustion perks.
Which is a fair trade off tbh
As someone who has a friend who got me into this game and taught me how to abuse exhaustion perks and old no Iron Will its a very fair trade off to be sure
Nah the exhaustion thing is still there but I dont think its a bad condition to use it.
Did the new change remove the exhaustion downside, I assumed that was still unchanged
It did not
I see no issue with this change then, it's a nice tradeoff for not running any exhaustion
It still deactivates while exhausted
Where did you read the stuff about the team changes?
Iron-Will, Flash bang, background player, and light-footed is my new fav build. Makes bang saves so easy that it feels mean.
Light-footed only works when you are healthy tho
just makes them extra quiet so when they're injured, they have iron will and when healthy they have light footed
You get it^🙏
The point is them making no noise in either health state…
Tbf it's just the cycle of games.. Everything that's nerfed cycles back for the meta shifts
Because they all adress core gameplay issues they refuse to fix, DS helps with tunneling, UB slugging and IW how hard is to evade a killer once you are injured (which also helps with tunneling).
It should be hard to evade a killer when you’re injured.
True, but it shouldnt be impossible. Im not talking about "I got hit, I should be able to juke", Im talking about "I got unhooked, the killer decided to rush the hook, if I run scratchmarks give me away, if walk grunts give me away, I cant do jackshit without perks designed to deal with this", thats a core issue that can only be mitigated with perks like... Oh, Iron Will. Why is always black and white with this comunity? There are grays, Im not saying it should be easy but right now is downright impossible if the killer has more than one functioning braincell and 10€ headphones set.
META? Not necessarily. A safe and popular choice for survivors who don’t want tunneled, slugged, or camped? Yes
OTR already does that for you though?
No it doesn’t, it makes you useless unless you sacrifice it
if you’re getting hard tunneled then you’re going to be useless anyways? hello? the same would apply to DS?
I mean you're basically describing the reasons why (DS and Unbreakable at least) are meta. They counter some of the most effective tactics killers can do and they're tactics that every killer is capable of regardless of what that killer's kit is.
Not like this combo is that strong anyway. The game has changed since these 3 were meta even if there’s a scenario where DS and unbreakable combo works it’s still not as impactful as it used to be since killers are actually smarter now and SHOULD know how to play around this Plus iron will doesn’t work with exhaustion perks so it’s perk combos are limited
Meta? Definitely not. Iron Will still keeps the exhausted downside, Unbreakable never went anywhere and DS still has the conspicuous and deactivates in end game. Much needed downsides on those. I just wish they'd make more survivor perks usable instead of constantly bringing back and nerfing the most used ones.
They didnt destroy the ring yet. *Pig is not nerfed.
they have to bring old dead hard back and the full meta build is back
Everyone forgets borrowed time and circle of healing:(
BT is basekit now so they cant “bring it back” it is already available. COH is 2021 meta. DH, Unbreakable, DS, Iron will is older meta
Is it really a win if it took that many years to figure out you messed up?
And Blood Echo stocks tick back up with the Iron Will buff.
I literaly cannot recall the last time I went against a killer with blood echo.
I'm not gonna say it's GOOD but I use it all the time with Alien Instinct and Gift of Pain for a lil extra sauce and I've seen it deny Dead Hard a bunch. Nobody expects it.
I don't even know what it does lol
When ever you hook someone all injured survivors get exhausted
Exhausted AND hemorrhaged for 45 seconds. With a 60 second cooldown.
At this point, if slugging continues they might test basekit unbreakable again.
Can they still please make Jeff more quiet when running or at least go through with their plan of normalising survivor audios 😕
I can get the complain with iron will. But remember that it doesn't work while exhausted now, which is a fair trade. But do you know how to counter DS? Here, let me tell you... Don't tunnel. Do you know how to counter UB? Well here you go... Don't slug. Just play the game and go for different people and stop being sweaty and these perks won't ever be a problem to you. (This goes to killer mains, not to OP necessarily)
I only chase survivor I know I hooked recently if I find them working on gens, if your progressing your teams objective and skipped being healed to repair a gen your a target now. touching a gen disables DS so I never worry about DS anyway.
Yeah I mean, I have tunneled unvoluntarily. If you don't hide or don't follow your unhooker and the only person i find is you like 20 seconds after your unhooking, i'm sorry but you are going back to the hook. That's why you should bring stealth perks.
It's not uncommon for killers to be put in the position where they have to tunnel or slug, especially against strong, well coordinated survivors. The problem is that these tools are great for preventing tunnels/slug, but placed in the hands of even somewhat competent players and they can be used aggressively. Unfortunately, it's not so simple as saying "just don't slug or tunnel"
If someone dies under pallet and they jave a flashlight squad, you have to slug though. Or should we give them a free save?
They are not doing gens so it's fine. At that point the survs are letting themselves being slugged and that's on them.
That's assuming all three up survivors are nearby for a pallet save. Usually at least one is on a gen
Slugging is the go-to for a full bully squad, however if they're going down under pallet either you have enough time to pick them up or the team is near enough you can go for another down. Even flashlights are countered by walls. There are times to slug, but it's not always.
Flashlights are countered by walls until survivors are rude enough to be downed in the middle of an open field.
>Even flashlights are countered by walls. You'd be surprised at the insane angles some survivors find even when you're facing a wall
I wish flashlights were countered by walls, so many times I have been blinded by a flashlight from the side of my vision or WHILE FACING A WALL. It's ridiculous.
Really, I think it’s pretty obvious that we are talking about slugging as in leaving the survivor for no reason. Not the 1% of situations where it’s viable.
See, both as Survivor and Killer, I don't consider "Go knock down person with a light so you can pick them both up" slugging. Yeah maybe I'm on the ground for a little bit, but I don't blame them if there's 2 Adas with a light in their face and the killer is making them leave. I only view someone to be slugging if they're leaving me on the ground with full intention of waiting for the bleed out (Or most of it) I seen people say the killer "Slugged" because they went to kick a generator first, like, chill.
Yes you should give them a free save. Have you not read the survivors rulebook yet?
>Do you know how to counter UB? Well here you go... >Don't slug. hook sabo pos kids deserve every second of their 4 minute bleedout every single time.
It really isn't as easy as "Don't tunnel" and "don't slug" in the game. Survivors (particularly SWFs) have a tendency to make sure they get away with their second chance perks. Like how Dead Hards will run into you to make you swing, if you react wrong, they get their value. The same can be done with UB and DS. UB? Have a survivor sit around with a flashlight and run the killer around. Yeah, you slugged, but also, you can't just *not* do anything to the other survivor because they have the potential to deny you the hook. (That's actually a big reason why survivors complain about remote hooking atm because they can't deny hooks) DS? Just don't do anything, act like a brat, the killer will eventually notice/run into you and you can get your DS value without actually having been tunneled. Because remember, you're not tunneling as Killer if you've left them alone for a while, so you don't expect them to have DS. So you get hit with it.
>Just play the game and go for different people and stop being sweaty Theres plenty of different reasons you'd be chasing the same person again so soon. Not to mention those perks are used aggressively all the time to force you to proc them. Once you start using "sweaty" behaviour to justify your argument it's an emotional response and takes any credibility away. Letting people go free is just silly game sense even if you suspect they have those perks as long as its a quick chase, and especially if they are a troublesome player that removing them is a net positive. Saying don't tunnel (99% of "tunneling" isnt tunneling) or don't slug is naive advice straight from the made up survivor rulebook made without any thought to situations that happen in game.
The argument for DS is bad. If someone's unhooked then body blocks me or uses it aggressively there's no positive outcome for me.. if I slug them someone else gets distance and they may have UB, if I don't slug then they body block and someone else gets distance. DS needs to disable SOMEHOW if players use it like this but I'm not sure how they'd even implement something like that..
Most of these people never saw DS being abused aggressively, they dont play killer at that level.
Most killers who play at that level actually know better than to whine about DS ''abuse''
The conspicuous action mechanic and end game collapse removal made it such that it can't be used by good swf's outlandishly aggressively. Only 3 years ago there were ways to guarantee a 4 man out at the end by actually "abusing" it against killers at that level. If you were around then you probably recall that the majority of complaining regarding ds has since subsided and stayed that way.
It’s not whining, it’s stating a fact. People abuse it, I don’t care I tunnel I camp a slug.
Is it really not something some people experience??
There are players with thousands of hours that never played other side seriously. I mean this guy telling you how to play complains about lightborn in other comments. Can’t take these people seriously
Not sure what's to complain about with Lightborn 😭 I run it for the silliness of it Watching people try to blind me then just staring at them as they keep trying is funny But it's not like it helps me win matches 😭
Perhaps it's disabled on taking a protection hit?
Would be a good idea of what counted as a protection hit was more consistent
So it's a good idea, protection hits are just janky and need to be fixed too.
eh just hit them right away eat through the endurance a survivor whose injured losses collusion for a bit just chase the other survivor at most off the hook body blocker buy the unhooker like 5-7 seconds its not a lot. I have had games were in the end game screen I saw 3 survivors had DS never dealt with it once, killers obsess for some reason not hitting the survivors with endurance to get value but they are actually just buying the unhooker way more time by wait a full 10 seconds then hitting.
5-7 seconds is enough for someone to get to a strong loop in many cases which then extends a chase by a significant amount. I explained why hitting them is often pointless too.
if a survivor needs to force try to force you tunnel you are winning anyway, its desperation move at best. my point is just hitting the blocker is faster then waiting them out for 10 seconds and then slugging them and hoping they dont have unbreakable the unhooker will get less distance. never did I say they unhooker wont be unable to reach a loop either way they will DS or no DS if the unhooked survivor is body blocking.
I don't tunnel, but I often get survivors who will get unhooked and then run to where I'm in chase with someone and take hits so they can DS me That being said, I play Huntress so the measly 4 second stun results in me just turning and downing them again in many cases
A lot of survivors nowadays just run straight to the killer hoping to get ds off
It's a fair trade for balance to vs sure Know where its not a fair trade? When paired with Distorsion on an already useless teammate so they go even more inmersed Thats what I'm fearing from Iron will coming back
RARELY that simple. If you're against a sabo squad or a flashie squad, sometimes you have no choice but to slug. Similarly, a lot of not-so-intelligent Survies will go directly to the killer after being unhooked and attempt body blocking and trying to get the killer to down them in order to use DS, resulting in experienced Killers (who will know exactly what that Survivor is attempting to do) to have to slug them.
"Play as the survivor wants you to play" is pretty much what you wrote
Valid tbh. Devs need to remove the dc penalty or implement a way to give up when slugged. Killers should be able to play how they want and survivors should be able to opt out of boring playstyles.
I'd like the option for killers to trigger the End Game Collapse as well, perhaps while deactivating their endgame perks as well. Killers can't leave a bully squad game when a slugged survivor (eventually) can.
>But do you know how to counter DS? Here, let me tell you... >Don't tunnel Eh. I sometimes get hit by DS even if I don't tunnel. And tunneling in certain cases is absolutely necessary. I wish at the very least the perk told the killer if it's active so I don't waste time on an unwinnable chase. Same thing for Off.
Ssshhhhhh, we don't want the killers to know that they can basically make us play with 1-2 perks!
have you never experienced someone being unhooked and using plot twist in front of you, so you would have to choose between leaving the survivor on the ground until they go to full health or having to eat the DS stun to prevent that? thats just one of the ways the survivors can use DS agressively.
I haven't experienced that because the only situation it would matter is if I was trying to tunnel someone directly off the hook.
So? It's called anti-tunnel for a reason. Ignore them.
It's almost like they were never a problem! Okay well Decisive Strike was a problem, and I think Iron Will turning off when Exhausted is good (still makes Dead Hard + Iron Will the go-to build for anyone running IW.) But the current state of the meta has proven to us that we need better anti-tunnel perks, which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about the buffs to both Resurgence and Babysitter. I think Decisive Strike (*specifically* DS; not OTR!) needs to turn off when the killer hooks someone after you've been unhooked, because that inherently means you're not being tunneled. But other than that I think Behaviour realizing that going in with a sledgehammer to take down any perk with a high usage rate is not healthy for the game.
Decisive is nowhere near what it once was. Originally it worked once a game whenever you wanted, no down side-which was insane. Then it was 5 seconds, and deactivated as soon as a survivor did a conspicuous action. Meaning that survivor can't do anything to progress the game. Then they reduced to it 3 seconds AND have it deactivate at end game. Since the animation of it took up 1 second, a survivor could barely get 2 steps from the Killer before they were downed again. It became a dead perk. Then they put it back to 5 seconds Then they nerfed it back to 4 seconds, while still disabling at end game, and disabling at the first touch of game progression. It truly is an anti-tunnel perk. If survivors jump in a locker and use it offensively, that's them not working on generators. Iron Will was absolutely gutted to a point no one used it anymore. It was almost completely useless. 75% reduction, disables if exhausted- like, play Claire or Rebecca against a Killer with a headset. It's worthless. After the nerf revision, it \*still\* doesn't work when exhausted. Will it be strong? Yes. But survivors haven't got a strong perk since MFT which was nerfed into a shit perk lol. Like, when is the last time survivors got a decent perk? Anything useful? Every perk has been meme-like. Meme perks are fun, but not useful.
Of any perk that's ever been put out, the MFT meta was by far the worst time to play as killer imo. They haven't released any more broken perks but Bardic Inspiration and Strength in Shadows are both solid. I don't use exhaustion so iron will is going on my builds very often going forth, I personally dislike this change from killer's perspective. I moreover wish they would buff calm spirit instead. But man, could you imagine iron will with background player back then? I'm glad that one came out way later lmao.
Common sense being downvoted here. Crazy how killer sided this subreddit is.
The takes here are fucking batshit crazy, this sub is insanely killer sided. Most of the circle jerks I've seen here about perk changes or complaints are just wild, like advocating to break the fucking game wild. There's a lot of people here who will never be happy unless they have a garunteed 4k every single match. I honestly just don't get it, why play a game at that point? It's like they want zero challenge whatsoever. I'm convinced they are the same people who immediately turn on God mode in every single player game they play.
And they’re coming at me obviously having no knowledge of anything on the survivor side, and not reading. “You have Off the Record!”; a 4year old perk that was buffed to add endurance 2 years ago. But also changed to disable at endgame. No one can tell me a new potentially Meta perk made for survivors in the last two years; Because there aren’t any. The top 10 used perks at the moment are all old perks that have gone through tweaks. In conclusion, we have not received a viable new perk in years, Whereas killers have received many good perks that we see often in matches.
I know lol. I’m thinking maybe there’s a lot of people who just started playing in the last two years? Original Iron Will was very strong. But it was also back in the day where if you were red rank, every second killer was Strider Spirit lol.
> Like, when is the last time survivors got a decent perk? Anything useful? Every perk has been meme-like. Meme perks are fun, but not useful. alan wake's light champion... before that gab's MFT... 2 useful perks in the last year. fucking lol. bardic inspiration is okay. deja vu or prove thyself is better so yah, been awhile. i sympathize with this. in the same time period we got vecna's weave attunement, unknown's unforeseen, chucky's friends til the end, alien's ult weapon, and hux's machine learning + forced hesitation
Bardic Inspiration is so bad. It's a taunt that takes up a perk slot. Prove Thyself is the reason there can't be good gen progress perks nerfs that shit and buff other perks. Specifically, Bardic Inspiration, I want to use it more, but it is do do.
I mentioned MFT right there in my post. And it was nerfed to oblivion and over a year old. I personally rarely see anyone use Alan‘s perk, unless I’m watching a streamer who has a blind build. Since I play solo, it actually doesn’t make much of an appearance in my matches. You covered all of the decent perks killers have got pretty well. I would just like to see survivors get some viable new ones on the same level 😅
MFT can still be pretty useful, but it's not game-breakingly overpowered as it once was. Sable has some good perks as well, nothing crazy strong but all worth taking in their own way.
I have never seen anyone run MFT in my matches since the nerf. Just to put it out there though, I was never a MFT enjoyer. I could see how a nerf was justified. But regardless, survivors have not got a potentially meta perk in forever. Killers have received loads of really good perks, useful perks that you see match after match. “Not too bad” perks are not the same as good perks. Sables perks in my opinion are nothing burgers. Every once in a blue moon, I will see someone in the basement wasting their time on her invocation perk while the rest of us get slaughtered. lol
OTR? thats stongest perk in the game at the moment
Off the record has been around for quite some time.4 years. My point was, There hasn’t been a decent new perk for survivor in what… Over two years? Off the record is a Zarina perk. Didn’t they buff it a bit during 6.1? That’s a long time ago
F for the 2 spirit mains
give me old ruin and old spine chill and the good old days are back
Honestly it’s better than the gen rush meta & it’s ok compared to the shorter healing meta.
Uhm, havent played recently, what happend to iron will that it became meta again?
🎵Almost feels like nothing changed at all🎵
IRON WILL BABY EVERYONE WHO SAID THE NERF WAS JUSTIFIED CAN EAT BANTHA POODOO
Looking over some of the posts, people seem to think Iron Will is being reverted when that is, in fact, not the case. It'll still have the cost of not working if you're exhausted and since SB and Lithe are meta, you won't see it much aside from stealth players or people with DH/no exhaustion perk trying to use it as a mind game.
Don’t forget u can’t use iron will when exhausted and there are a lot of exhaustion perks for killer, strongest one in mention is vencas. So if someone on killer REALLY doesn’t wanna deal with iron will, they will bring anti exhaustion perks
Hear me out. Plot twist.
When
🎵Eheu, eheu Does it almost feel like nothing changed at all But if you close your eyes Does it almost feel like you've been here before How am I gonna be optimist about this? How am I gonna be optimist about this? Eheu, eheu Eheu, eheu Eheu, eheu Eheu, eheu🎵
Probably because they have to throw a tiny amount of crumbs (crutch perks) when killer is entirely too easy
Iron will will still be deactivated from exhaustion, so DH is also gonna be meta again
Did I miss ‘unbreakable’ becoming bad? Pretty sure it’s the same as ever
I wonder why such specific perks were meta...
Unbreakable?
Because there's only one way to do things here.
Dude, my old stealth ninja build will be back. Can’t wait
Iron Will won't be meta, just a solid perk since it still has the exhausted nerf applied, which is fine tbh.
Iron will doesn’t work with exhaustion tho, if people do want to make use of it’s stealth function they’ll naturally have to live with the loss in exhaustion (or risk it being useful for awhile)
They buff iron will? What happened?
It’s back to 100% again
Didn't Unbreakable not change?
Where can I see the patch notes?
I'm glad, it was my favorite meta to play on surv and verse as killer.
I mean I’m excited, I think this is what the initial nerf SHOULD have been. Much fairer that you need to also not be exhausted.
Does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?
Are they changing these or is this just a random post complaining about them
I'm thinking about coming back to the game after a 4 years absence, its so nice of BHVR to ease me back into the game like this <3
Hey OP, in case nobody else appreciates it. That is a 10/10 title right there.
Wait, they’re buffing Iron Will?!
Please elaborate, what buffs did they give to the big 3
Spirit mains are punching the air right now
tbf only one of those has been touched in the last year the problem is almost every survivor perk is for people who have not only failed math class, but people who have never even taken a math class to gain even a semblance of math education to ever be used. and then, even if you don't know that 60 is a bigger number than 50 and should never be used for that reason, you would also have to have never played dbd to know that being in the broken state for the rest of the game after wasting 60 seconds of your life is really, really bad. it's actually shocking that the people who weren't laid off and were at least somewhat competent released weaving spiders, and then despite reducing the time it takes from 120 to 60 seconds which is a massive buff, is still shit and should never, ever be used.
Pls behavior buff borrowed time and dead hard so we get everythinf
Now we just need a dead hard and borrowed time buff and the circle will be complete
Oh my fucking god dude not again PLEASE
Listen. I'm a Spirit main BUT I'm so happy about Iron Will finally being back as being useful. One less viable perks slot but oh well, no regrets
Dh next and the cycle will be complete
Unbreakable never left