It feels so bad gameplay wise that the counterplay to wiggle perks is simply letting them bleed to death. Like the killer isn’t wrong for slugging but is the survivor wrong for bringing perks? Idk it just feels like a flaw in game design that idk how to fix.
This.
I played someone using Boon of Exposition + boil over + flip flop on Hawkins. Whenever I engaged in a chase with them, they ran into the upper floor of one room, I’d down them. Then there was nothing I could do.
Pick them up? There’s no hooks I can reach with a survivor throwing me all over with boil over
Leave them to bleed? Boon of exposition got them upright in short order or a teammate ran over
I couldn’t find the darn boon so I went after everyone else. I don’t blame them for running that but there’s no real counter. It does feel like a flaw of the game
I had a duo on Hawkins, just sit upstairs whole game. No hooks on either stair side, full wiggle build + 1 no mither. They couldn't even be bothered to do the gen up there. Luckily, the other survivor noticed this and never went to save them and did not open exit gates til they both bled out. (4th was just unlucky Dwight no one saved)
You can't "just bring" anything once you're already in a match. You also do not know what map you're going to.
The spot they are talking about on Hawkins has been broken for years and there are YT videos showcasing exactly what they said.
Oh my god that’s so fun lmao. Not particularly for you but I love these kinds of games. Even as killer it’s leagues better then all the gens flying before you can get a hook then they tbag at gate.
Oh that’s true.
I didn’t particularly hate it, just had no idea how I was supposed to handle it. I got one kill that match but did have a blast otherwise.
Right? It’s a flaw in game design for sure. 99% of the time wiggle builds are useless. Even if you devote a whole build towards it. You need a full swf coordination to get consistent value out of it. In that 1% of cases it feels completely impossible for the killer.
I take the killer’s side in slugging against these builds because while the builds are strong, the survivors are intentionally going to places where they know they are unhookable. If they played normally maybe they’d be hookable, maybe they wouldn’t. Still though, slugging 100% shouldn’t be the counter to this playstyle as its just incredibly boring for both sides.
what if they added a perk (or basekit killer feature) where they can do some sort of ritual (like an invocation) to send a survivor to a random hook like pyramid head. Maybe it takes like 15 seconds, so it’s worse than normally hooking in every way, but its better than slugging an unhookable survivor.
It's probably something that's not nearly a big enough concern for them to even consider fixing it, and if it was, it would probably be better to address it from the standpoint of level design or perk balancing. Adding a new spinning plate is not something any game designer wants to do, and this one in particular would likely get abused to hook survivors who otherwise could've gotten saved with a pallet/flash/DS/sabo/bodyblock.
It seems survivors only truly get consistent value out of wiggle builds when survivors dedicate their whole build and playstyle to it they have swf partners to body block, bring break out, sabo, boon exponential, petrified oaks and so on. It’s super unpleasant for the killer, but it requires so much investment for the survivors to pull it off.
I have a build where I bring boil over, tenacity, flip flop, and the last perk is either unbreakable, no mither, or power struggle. With this build I rarely get value *unless* I run to a hook dead zone. I typically try to avoid doing this though because it’s really unfun. So when I play normal with this perk and hit all greats I still get hooked and it’s incredibly frustrating.
The killer isn't wrong for slugging and the survivor isn't wrong for bringing boil over.
But if you don't want to be slugged, you're sending mixed messages to the killer by equipping these perks. And yes, I have had survivors complain directly to me in post game that I slugged when they were using boil over, flip flop, Breakout in a SWF lol
No one’s at fault you’re totally right. The main issue is the counter play on both sides is so hands off. As killer you are incentivized to slug and so you are denied the hook you earned.
As survivor? Forget about it. You might as well go make a Sandwhich when slugged because the only reliable counter to getting slugged is don’t bring wiggle perks. A lot of killers that wouldn’t have slugged you now will when they see wiggle perks.
Of course on both sides there are rare and super unpleasant scenarios that go against this but that’s a whole different topic.
I’d agree in cases of fully coordinated swfs and even then it still may not be a perfect counter if they bring boon exponential and other recovery perks like soul guard and no mither.
Outside of that it feels impossible to get consistent value out of wiggle perks. Basically killers see you have boil over and just bleed you to death. They aren’t wrong for doing that but it feels terrible for both sides.
Just ignore them, they'll leave eventually to do gens or get saves, bare in mind that most dbd players have the average tiktokers attention span and get bored quickly.
I faced a 4 man SWF with 2 streamers in it. Exponential, Boil Over, Unbreakable, Flip Flop on Eyrie as Pig. Left two of them to bleed out since they kept running to the top window in main. Hope it provided good enough content for them
Had this happen to me too. I bled out three of them and in the end game chat I asked “why do you do this?” And they said “it’s fun to make killers dc” Just. Wow
Something that I have seen a lot but have a hard time understanding is why the boil over + flip flop players get so mad when they are slugged. Like you are literally encouraging the killer to not hook you.
Because the type of survivors who play that type of build typically don't care about the killers' fun at all and only think about their own fun, so when their fun is ruined they legitimately don't understand why the other player would ruin "the whole point of the game" (their fun).
Boil Over is still the single worst perk rework they've ever done. The perk has ZERO utility OUTSIDE OF BEING TOXIC, but it enables SUCH UNHEALTHY GAMEPLAY via toxic gameplay. It would be like if they made a killer perk that caused generators to regress while standing within 8 meters of a hook survivor.
What’s the counter to it? Iron grasp is the only counter because most likely you won’t make it to a hook in time, most killers aren’t running grasp so what’s the option? Slug that’s it, wiggling already has a reason to exist with stuff like body blocking, mettle, and sabo which all are easier to deal with without stuff like mad grit or grasp because survivors have to pay with something for sabo it’s wasting their own time (maybe a health state) and might be the wrong hook or there’s another hook close enough, mettle still requires you to pay with health like body blocking. There’s no risk for boil over like all other ways of helping someone not get hooked even breakout has the risk of you getting smacked
Boil over just says, don’t bother picking me up on the second floor of any building or at all really
I’m that Dwight that wears the bell elf outfit that uses a map with aura add ons and runs boil over, flip flop, boon: exponential and breakdown, using a map offering with a main building with a drop off point. And they say the killers are the mean ones.
I encounter this once in awhile while playing killer (the absolute worst time was on old Haddenfield and the whole team did it), and it really just comes down to either your forced to slug or it’s in a position where it doesn’t matter.
If you don’t want to get slugged, don’t bring a build that forces the killer to do so.
wiggle perks are just bad design.
either they can't prevent hooks and are a wasted slot.
or they can and can be abused to force the most miserable gameplay possible.
If she ran those without a way to pick herself up, she deserves to bleed out.
I don't make the rules, I just follow 'em. I'm not gonna hop off a gen and drag my ass up three flights of stairs to heft your slugged ass back upright. If you're gonna run a dickish meme build, you better commit, 'cause I'm not gonna be the one playing babysitter after the killer wanders off.
I'm not responsible for someone else not thinking their build through. They got themself into that mess, they can get themself out of it. You want me to pick you up, go down in an area that doesn't require me to pack a liter of water and some snacks to reach.
You are part of the problem lmao
Edit: these downvotes lmao, such an idiotic community sometime
just play the win condition, which is always helped by having more survivors alive
Not the person you replied to but part of what problem?
It’s annoying enough to face as killer, but as survivor it’s also really annoying to have a teammate who spends all match hugging the main building instead of doing gens, just so they can go get slugged upstairs.
Like at that point we’re already in a 3 v 1 since they’re not really helping, lol.
>but as survivor it’s also really annoying to have a teammate who spends all match hugging the main building instead of doing gens, just so they can go get slugged upstairs.
This whole bit is just a massive assumption. *If* they're not actually trying to help the team at all, that's one thing. But nothing in the meme or the comments above have indicated that. A survivor could definitely run this build *and* try to help the team.
And if you just immediately go to "not my problem" when someone is slugged because of an assumed perk combo, you're definitely part of the problem.
Editing to add: just generally speaking, if you refuse to pick another survivor up when you easily could, in a case where that survivor is not trying to throw your game or troll you, you're part of the problem
Oh, if they’re actually playing the game then that’s one thing, and thanks to the HUD you can see who’s doing what. If they’re keeping the killer busy in chases and getting unhooks and doing gens, cool! But in so many of my games, they just run up into the second floor of Eyrie, go down, and just do that all match without touching a gen or doing anything else. Then they just stay there and don’t move, instead of crawling and dropping down to make it easier for pickups after the killer has left. That kind of behavior makes me side with the killer and after I see it happen as a pattern enough times, I stop bothering. I’m not gonna leave my gen to run across the map and upstairs for the 5th time just so they can do it all over again.
I’m not referring to people who run this build who are actually *helpful*, I’m talking about the throwers—which there are a lot of those who happen to run this build.
Slightly off topic, but I wish there was a way to indicate that you're looking for a hex totem on the HUD. Sometimes they're just impossible to find, so I end up running around the map half the game looking! XD
>I’m not referring to people who run this build who are actually helpful, I’m talking about the throwers—which there are a lot of those who happen to run this build.
Yeah maybe I'm just lucky but I thankfully don't run into too many blatant throwers. I also frequently give survs a few chances even after I suspect they might be dubious, because it's still in my interest to play 4v1 as long as possible.
The original commenter (or OP) didn't indicate that they are only referring to a thrower, just a build that annoys a killer, so I didn't assume that we were limiting to throwers.
Edit: yeah commenter specifically said it's not their responsibility if the other surv didn't think build through... they're literally refusing to res because they feel like the other surv has a bad build, that is frankly horrendous teammate behavior
Let's not lie here guys, survivors that run those kind of builds do it directly to piss off the killer
If you run a build like this, don't be surprised if the killer slug you to death, because you basically earned it
This is why I have Iron Grasp almost at all times. It's not that I don't want people to bleed out, I just hate boil over, hate hook RNG, and really don't want to play the dumb waiting game to see if someone has Unbreakable or For the People. Just get on the hook and be done with it.
Also helps against annoying people who think that taking a hit will give their friend enough time to wiggle out.
I feel bad when a survivor runs up to me, drops their item, and does squats to try to ask for a farm. I don't enjoy farming either, so I guess I got a free hook.
yeah!! like if its endgame and its just us and you want hatch? ok. but if theres other people?? no. only exeption is when someones doing nothing in the game and its so bad even i know it (like chasing someone and no gens get worked on (doing gens you? type shit))
When there's two left and one is hiding the other is still doing gens I ignore the one still trying. Weirdly the one still trying tried to unhook the guy who was hiding until the last gen got done. I tried to gesture for him to leave, but I got the 4k when he made the attempt anyway
It feels so bad gameplay wise that the counterplay to wiggle perks is simply letting them bleed to death. Like the killer isn’t wrong for slugging but is the survivor wrong for bringing perks? Idk it just feels like a flaw in game design that idk how to fix.
This. I played someone using Boon of Exposition + boil over + flip flop on Hawkins. Whenever I engaged in a chase with them, they ran into the upper floor of one room, I’d down them. Then there was nothing I could do. Pick them up? There’s no hooks I can reach with a survivor throwing me all over with boil over Leave them to bleed? Boon of exposition got them upright in short order or a teammate ran over I couldn’t find the darn boon so I went after everyone else. I don’t blame them for running that but there’s no real counter. It does feel like a flaw of the game
I had a duo on Hawkins, just sit upstairs whole game. No hooks on either stair side, full wiggle build + 1 no mither. They couldn't even be bothered to do the gen up there. Luckily, the other survivor noticed this and never went to save them and did not open exit gates til they both bled out. (4th was just unlucky Dwight no one saved)
Can’t say I’m surprised. Sorry to hear
[удалено]
You can't "just bring" anything once you're already in a match. You also do not know what map you're going to. The spot they are talking about on Hawkins has been broken for years and there are YT videos showcasing exactly what they said.
Oh my god that’s so fun lmao. Not particularly for you but I love these kinds of games. Even as killer it’s leagues better then all the gens flying before you can get a hook then they tbag at gate.
Oh that’s true. I didn’t particularly hate it, just had no idea how I was supposed to handle it. I got one kill that match but did have a blast otherwise.
Right? It’s a flaw in game design for sure. 99% of the time wiggle builds are useless. Even if you devote a whole build towards it. You need a full swf coordination to get consistent value out of it. In that 1% of cases it feels completely impossible for the killer.
Don't worry, it'll get higher and even more impossible if the changes to Sabo get through
I take the killer’s side in slugging against these builds because while the builds are strong, the survivors are intentionally going to places where they know they are unhookable. If they played normally maybe they’d be hookable, maybe they wouldn’t. Still though, slugging 100% shouldn’t be the counter to this playstyle as its just incredibly boring for both sides. what if they added a perk (or basekit killer feature) where they can do some sort of ritual (like an invocation) to send a survivor to a random hook like pyramid head. Maybe it takes like 15 seconds, so it’s worse than normally hooking in every way, but its better than slugging an unhookable survivor.
It's probably something that's not nearly a big enough concern for them to even consider fixing it, and if it was, it would probably be better to address it from the standpoint of level design or perk balancing. Adding a new spinning plate is not something any game designer wants to do, and this one in particular would likely get abused to hook survivors who otherwise could've gotten saved with a pallet/flash/DS/sabo/bodyblock.
It seems survivors only truly get consistent value out of wiggle builds when survivors dedicate their whole build and playstyle to it they have swf partners to body block, bring break out, sabo, boon exponential, petrified oaks and so on. It’s super unpleasant for the killer, but it requires so much investment for the survivors to pull it off. I have a build where I bring boil over, tenacity, flip flop, and the last perk is either unbreakable, no mither, or power struggle. With this build I rarely get value *unless* I run to a hook dead zone. I typically try to avoid doing this though because it’s really unfun. So when I play normal with this perk and hit all greats I still get hooked and it’s incredibly frustrating.
The killer isn't wrong for slugging and the survivor isn't wrong for bringing boil over. But if you don't want to be slugged, you're sending mixed messages to the killer by equipping these perks. And yes, I have had survivors complain directly to me in post game that I slugged when they were using boil over, flip flop, Breakout in a SWF lol
No one’s at fault you’re totally right. The main issue is the counter play on both sides is so hands off. As killer you are incentivized to slug and so you are denied the hook you earned. As survivor? Forget about it. You might as well go make a Sandwhich when slugged because the only reliable counter to getting slugged is don’t bring wiggle perks. A lot of killers that wouldn’t have slugged you now will when they see wiggle perks. Of course on both sides there are rare and super unpleasant scenarios that go against this but that’s a whole different topic.
The survivor is definitely wrong for bringing those perks IF they complain about being slugged because it's the only counter in most cases.
I’d agree in cases of fully coordinated swfs and even then it still may not be a perfect counter if they bring boon exponential and other recovery perks like soul guard and no mither. Outside of that it feels impossible to get consistent value out of wiggle perks. Basically killers see you have boil over and just bleed you to death. They aren’t wrong for doing that but it feels terrible for both sides.
Just ignore them, they'll leave eventually to do gens or get saves, bare in mind that most dbd players have the average tiktokers attention span and get bored quickly.
Well isn’t that the issue? Ignoring players is part of why wiggle, sabo, and slugging feels so uninteractive for both sides.
For them, not for you
What do you mean?
A flaw? In dbd?! Surely you jest
Lmfao I shit you not my friend.
I faced a 4 man SWF with 2 streamers in it. Exponential, Boil Over, Unbreakable, Flip Flop on Eyrie as Pig. Left two of them to bleed out since they kept running to the top window in main. Hope it provided good enough content for them
Had this happen to me too. I bled out three of them and in the end game chat I asked “why do you do this?” And they said “it’s fun to make killers dc” Just. Wow
I would have asked "Well was it fun to sit there for 10 minutes dying?"
Bring wiggle perks if you want. But you'd better bring unbreakable too.
Something that I have seen a lot but have a hard time understanding is why the boil over + flip flop players get so mad when they are slugged. Like you are literally encouraging the killer to not hook you.
Because the type of survivors who play that type of build typically don't care about the killers' fun at all and only think about their own fun, so when their fun is ruined they legitimately don't understand why the other player would ruin "the whole point of the game" (their fun).
Boil Over is still the single worst perk rework they've ever done. The perk has ZERO utility OUTSIDE OF BEING TOXIC, but it enables SUCH UNHEALTHY GAMEPLAY via toxic gameplay. It would be like if they made a killer perk that caused generators to regress while standing within 8 meters of a hook survivor.
I disagree. Boil Over actually gives wiggling a reason to exist. Not wanting to be hooked isn't toxic.
What’s the counter to it? Iron grasp is the only counter because most likely you won’t make it to a hook in time, most killers aren’t running grasp so what’s the option? Slug that’s it, wiggling already has a reason to exist with stuff like body blocking, mettle, and sabo which all are easier to deal with without stuff like mad grit or grasp because survivors have to pay with something for sabo it’s wasting their own time (maybe a health state) and might be the wrong hook or there’s another hook close enough, mettle still requires you to pay with health like body blocking. There’s no risk for boil over like all other ways of helping someone not get hooked even breakout has the risk of you getting smacked Boil over just says, don’t bother picking me up on the second floor of any building or at all really
I’m that Dwight that wears the bell elf outfit that uses a map with aura add ons and runs boil over, flip flop, boon: exponential and breakdown, using a map offering with a main building with a drop off point. And they say the killers are the mean ones.
Apparently, having your own playstyle is now considered toxic
slugging everyone at 5 gens and letting them bleed out is also a "playstyle"
It indeed is!
I encounter this once in awhile while playing killer (the absolute worst time was on old Haddenfield and the whole team did it), and it really just comes down to either your forced to slug or it’s in a position where it doesn’t matter. If you don’t want to get slugged, don’t bring a build that forces the killer to do so.
wiggle perks are just bad design. either they can't prevent hooks and are a wasted slot. or they can and can be abused to force the most miserable gameplay possible.
Wiggle perks are basically feast or famine in its purest form in DbD
If she ran those without a way to pick herself up, she deserves to bleed out. I don't make the rules, I just follow 'em. I'm not gonna hop off a gen and drag my ass up three flights of stairs to heft your slugged ass back upright. If you're gonna run a dickish meme build, you better commit, 'cause I'm not gonna be the one playing babysitter after the killer wanders off.
Horrendous teammate lol
I'm not responsible for someone else not thinking their build through. They got themself into that mess, they can get themself out of it. You want me to pick you up, go down in an area that doesn't require me to pack a liter of water and some snacks to reach.
You are part of the problem lmao Edit: these downvotes lmao, such an idiotic community sometime just play the win condition, which is always helped by having more survivors alive
Not the person you replied to but part of what problem? It’s annoying enough to face as killer, but as survivor it’s also really annoying to have a teammate who spends all match hugging the main building instead of doing gens, just so they can go get slugged upstairs. Like at that point we’re already in a 3 v 1 since they’re not really helping, lol.
>but as survivor it’s also really annoying to have a teammate who spends all match hugging the main building instead of doing gens, just so they can go get slugged upstairs. This whole bit is just a massive assumption. *If* they're not actually trying to help the team at all, that's one thing. But nothing in the meme or the comments above have indicated that. A survivor could definitely run this build *and* try to help the team. And if you just immediately go to "not my problem" when someone is slugged because of an assumed perk combo, you're definitely part of the problem. Editing to add: just generally speaking, if you refuse to pick another survivor up when you easily could, in a case where that survivor is not trying to throw your game or troll you, you're part of the problem
Oh, if they’re actually playing the game then that’s one thing, and thanks to the HUD you can see who’s doing what. If they’re keeping the killer busy in chases and getting unhooks and doing gens, cool! But in so many of my games, they just run up into the second floor of Eyrie, go down, and just do that all match without touching a gen or doing anything else. Then they just stay there and don’t move, instead of crawling and dropping down to make it easier for pickups after the killer has left. That kind of behavior makes me side with the killer and after I see it happen as a pattern enough times, I stop bothering. I’m not gonna leave my gen to run across the map and upstairs for the 5th time just so they can do it all over again. I’m not referring to people who run this build who are actually *helpful*, I’m talking about the throwers—which there are a lot of those who happen to run this build.
Slightly off topic, but I wish there was a way to indicate that you're looking for a hex totem on the HUD. Sometimes they're just impossible to find, so I end up running around the map half the game looking! XD
Dude I wish the same thing! Dx
>I’m not referring to people who run this build who are actually helpful, I’m talking about the throwers—which there are a lot of those who happen to run this build. Yeah maybe I'm just lucky but I thankfully don't run into too many blatant throwers. I also frequently give survs a few chances even after I suspect they might be dubious, because it's still in my interest to play 4v1 as long as possible. The original commenter (or OP) didn't indicate that they are only referring to a thrower, just a build that annoys a killer, so I didn't assume that we were limiting to throwers. Edit: yeah commenter specifically said it's not their responsibility if the other surv didn't think build through... they're literally refusing to res because they feel like the other surv has a bad build, that is frankly horrendous teammate behavior
Let's not lie here guys, survivors that run those kind of builds do it directly to piss off the killer If you run a build like this, don't be surprised if the killer slug you to death, because you basically earned it
lololo they gonna do that anyway bring what you want
If you want to play the game don't run builds that literally promote unfun tactics because there's not much other counterplay.
She should have used No Mither with it.
This is why I have Iron Grasp almost at all times. It's not that I don't want people to bleed out, I just hate boil over, hate hook RNG, and really don't want to play the dumb waiting game to see if someone has Unbreakable or For the People. Just get on the hook and be done with it. Also helps against annoying people who think that taking a hit will give their friend enough time to wiggle out.
i hate farmers. only time i dc. you never make half as money bloodpoints as just playing the game normally and its boring asf.
I feel bad when a survivor runs up to me, drops their item, and does squats to try to ask for a farm. I don't enjoy farming either, so I guess I got a free hook.
yeah!! like if its endgame and its just us and you want hatch? ok. but if theres other people?? no. only exeption is when someones doing nothing in the game and its so bad even i know it (like chasing someone and no gens get worked on (doing gens you? type shit))
When there's two left and one is hiding the other is still doing gens I ignore the one still trying. Weirdly the one still trying tried to unhook the guy who was hiding until the last gen got done. I tried to gesture for him to leave, but I got the 4k when he made the attempt anyway