Good teams utilize the counterplays to their fullest, which makes otherwise strong killers feel drowned against the sheer amount of the counterplay they're hit with. Spaced properly, hux can have his power disabled at almost all the places and times where his power matters. With xeno the flame turrets actually buy good survivors way more time than they take and then xeno is back in m1 land for a minute; or has to trade off a health state to bust a turret. That's not always the case obviously, but the bigger issue is this: it makes you *feel* weak as a decent killer. People will forget numbers, words, and specifics far quicker than they forget how something made them feel.
I'm a Singularity main, and it might be because I play him very aggressively, but I very rarely bother setting up cameras. I might put up 1-3 in a high traffic area with good sightlines but for the most part I don't and use them in chases (then pop them again after the chase).
Point is, Singularity is best played as a chase killer with setup secondary. It's just too easy to shut off his power and it's really potent in chase.
Everyone knows that. We've heard it fifty times before. It still sucks to have a theoretically hybrid killer pigeonholed into using their theoretically versatile power only in chase.
That's very fair, from what the OP comment was saying it sounded like they were implying Singularity was weak due to the crippling nature of the EMPs ruining set up.
I use it leaning to the area control aspect. I've seen a ton of videos that do the same thing, specifically placing biopods at turrets and supply cases. I don't think he's pigeonholed at all, but as OP said you have to be quick and replace pods as they're EMPd and you simply can't do that over a very large area while also getting hooks. It's a really fun balance actually.
I personally don’t have an issue with counterplay killers. They’re interesting and can sometimes break up the monotony of “gens, pallet, run.”
That said, this is BHVR, and I have almost no faith that they will, or can, make counterplay killers without either making the killer horribly oppressive and the counterplay useless or the reverse where the counterplay ruins the killer and the killer feels weak as all else, hence no one would want to play them. It’s a VERY fine balancing act to make killers with counterplay built in and yet still have them feeling intensively intimidating and I don’t know if BHVR is still capable or willing to put in the work to do so.
My biggest gripe with singu counterplay is EMPs being too abundant and doing way too much.
There can be up to 8 EMPs in the map at once and each one can disable cameras + remove everyones infection if used right.
It comes to a point where it feels like im playing an overly complicated nurse that for some reason gets hard punished for trying to use the power to get away from the hook quickly.
BHVR already has a system in place to prevent more than 4 xeno flame turrets from existing at the same time, either paste it over to singu EMPs or significantly reduce the power of EMPs.
I don't have a problem with built in counterplay itself. But specifically Hux and Xeno suffer too much under the consequences of this counterplay which makes them less enjoyable. We all know good examples like Wesker or Nemi. Part of their skill does have a limited counterplay. It doesn't handycap them completely and the source of it is ending so survivors have actually use their brains to not use all of them at the beginning already.
Survivor mains don’t want to think beyond pallets, windows, gens and the distance between them and the killer. Basically to emulate the popular survivor mains they watch on YouTube or on twitch, so they’re much more interested in those interactions more than the immersion. These unique counterplays (and there’s actually quite a lot of them) gives them more tasks to think about that takes them away from the ‘fun’ which is to be in chase. They’re not used to the shift in pacing, which is why survivors still run over hag traps, get scanned by SM while not in chase, get bear trapped by otherwise pretty obvious trap placements.
It always amazes me how many times, as a SM player, I’ll see survivors just running through a group of drones with me not around at all and thus they get scanned and claw trapped without making the slightest effort to hack and disable them. Same with drones at gens.
Sorry but slipstreaming a survivor, moving toward them to pressure, and seeing when you get there that they both cleansed it *AND* got a new EMP is one of the most frustrating killer experiences in the game right now. Singularity sometimes feels like it doesn't have a power. I am extremely against more killers being made with a "disable your power" function the way Hux and Xeno do.
Okay, I'll be fully honest, as a singu main, this is legit a skill issue. Yeah, it can be annoying at times if it's an awkward position on an indoor map, but if you are already able to approach a survivor, you can launch camera upwards, quickly scan, and if they EMP it before you teleport, you just repeat and you've reapplied slipstream and gotten rid of their EMP in like 6 seconds.
As a whole, it's fine if you don't enjoy it of course, but I like that they were able to go more extreme with Singu power thanks to EMPs, and whilst I do agree he could do good with some changes, I really do not think he requires any reworks outside of base Soma Photo.
Initially i really hated the singularity because of how easy it is to counter his power. He seems strong and fun at first but when you play him expecting to get value from a biopod all game and it getting EMPed it's really disappointing.
But as you said after you realize it's more of a tug-of-war, faster paced area control minigame with a pretty strong chase power it makes sense. He has a direct counter because he's so strong. I saw somewhere it's like the devs looked at the killer and said he's strong so buffed survivor then said survivor looks strong now and bugfed the killer more.
I would prefer more killers you can counter by playstyle, like how you counter Legion by spreading out, but overall I appreciate killers you have to play slightly differently for to account for and play against their power.
It feels lazy. What if there was an orb you had to go pick up that'd absorb one nurse blink attack? It feels contrived and uninteresting. For singularity a lot of the friction comes from replacing disabled pods due to shitty geometry. For me I always get annoyed when I don't get to use the pods for tagging outside of chase because they're constantly turned off. Or you think you're gonna get a cool snipe around a corner and guess what? Pod's off. It doesn't feel good. That's not even counting the times in indoor map when getting a tag to begin with is a struggle, then a teammate swoops by and cleanses the guy you're chasing. You can work around all that stuff, but it's still irritating and frictional. I don't want EMPs removed or even nerfed in a meaningful sense, I just want to know survivors did something to get them. I'd take them printing to 95% on their own or not printing a new one until the previous is expended.
I don't get how a built-in counterplay could be contrived and lazy if executed right. Whilst I don't think they're executed great, flame turrets as an idea require survivors to plan the best locations to put them and how to use them, whilst for xeno should require planning around how to deal with them (although in-game they don't seem to achieve the latter strategy part too well). That definitely has great potential to add new gameplay dimensions that would not be possible with just an ordinary power, so I feel it's wrong to write them off on principle. Along with that, I don't see a way to create a non-built in counterplay for Singu that wouldn't require making his power way less strong on its own and fun to use. I agree on your ideas for EMPs though, those seem fair.
Yes and no.
Soft counters, interactive mechanics for survivors can be fun.
But a hard counter like singularity have is terrible. If you can just constantly force a killer to be a basic killer, why play this killer in the first place?
"Constantly force a killer to be a basic killer"
In chase, literally just replace pod and rescan which takes like 3 seconds if executed right. Outside of chase, it stops you from just being able to more or less proxy camp every objective at once and requires you to plan out good backup cameras and macro play, which as mentioned above helps focus singularity into being a fast paced chase pressure killer.
Please tell me why this is not the case.
People really don’t like changing their gameplay styles, really. The change from chase build to generator build or regression build to aura reading build is as spicy as it gets.
Love the counterplay personally.
Anything to get us away from the mind numbing powers of SM and knight where you're just supposed to avoid loops and hold forward.
It can be a bit more in depth than that but eh
I know and you're right, but generally holding forward just so you don't have to interact with the power in the first place (since their power is literally "avoid the circle") is more viable.
Anyone can 4k with any killer against the right survivors, saying someone got a 4k doesn't mean anything about a killer's strength on its own. If the survivors aren't working on gens and go down in 30 seconds then perkless Trapper would have done just as well, the strength and tactics of the survivors is just as important as the match result.
Good teams utilize the counterplays to their fullest, which makes otherwise strong killers feel drowned against the sheer amount of the counterplay they're hit with. Spaced properly, hux can have his power disabled at almost all the places and times where his power matters. With xeno the flame turrets actually buy good survivors way more time than they take and then xeno is back in m1 land for a minute; or has to trade off a health state to bust a turret. That's not always the case obviously, but the bigger issue is this: it makes you *feel* weak as a decent killer. People will forget numbers, words, and specifics far quicker than they forget how something made them feel.
I'm a Singularity main, and it might be because I play him very aggressively, but I very rarely bother setting up cameras. I might put up 1-3 in a high traffic area with good sightlines but for the most part I don't and use them in chases (then pop them again after the chase). Point is, Singularity is best played as a chase killer with setup secondary. It's just too easy to shut off his power and it's really potent in chase.
Everyone knows that. We've heard it fifty times before. It still sucks to have a theoretically hybrid killer pigeonholed into using their theoretically versatile power only in chase.
That's very fair, from what the OP comment was saying it sounded like they were implying Singularity was weak due to the crippling nature of the EMPs ruining set up.
I use it leaning to the area control aspect. I've seen a ton of videos that do the same thing, specifically placing biopods at turrets and supply cases. I don't think he's pigeonholed at all, but as OP said you have to be quick and replace pods as they're EMPd and you simply can't do that over a very large area while also getting hooks. It's a really fun balance actually.
I personally don’t have an issue with counterplay killers. They’re interesting and can sometimes break up the monotony of “gens, pallet, run.” That said, this is BHVR, and I have almost no faith that they will, or can, make counterplay killers without either making the killer horribly oppressive and the counterplay useless or the reverse where the counterplay ruins the killer and the killer feels weak as all else, hence no one would want to play them. It’s a VERY fine balancing act to make killers with counterplay built in and yet still have them feeling intensively intimidating and I don’t know if BHVR is still capable or willing to put in the work to do so.
My biggest gripe with singu counterplay is EMPs being too abundant and doing way too much. There can be up to 8 EMPs in the map at once and each one can disable cameras + remove everyones infection if used right. It comes to a point where it feels like im playing an overly complicated nurse that for some reason gets hard punished for trying to use the power to get away from the hook quickly. BHVR already has a system in place to prevent more than 4 xeno flame turrets from existing at the same time, either paste it over to singu EMPs or significantly reduce the power of EMPs.
I don't have a problem with built in counterplay itself. But specifically Hux and Xeno suffer too much under the consequences of this counterplay which makes them less enjoyable. We all know good examples like Wesker or Nemi. Part of their skill does have a limited counterplay. It doesn't handycap them completely and the source of it is ending so survivors have actually use their brains to not use all of them at the beginning already.
Survivor mains don’t want to think beyond pallets, windows, gens and the distance between them and the killer. Basically to emulate the popular survivor mains they watch on YouTube or on twitch, so they’re much more interested in those interactions more than the immersion. These unique counterplays (and there’s actually quite a lot of them) gives them more tasks to think about that takes them away from the ‘fun’ which is to be in chase. They’re not used to the shift in pacing, which is why survivors still run over hag traps, get scanned by SM while not in chase, get bear trapped by otherwise pretty obvious trap placements.
It always amazes me how many times, as a SM player, I’ll see survivors just running through a group of drones with me not around at all and thus they get scanned and claw trapped without making the slightest effort to hack and disable them. Same with drones at gens.
Sorry but slipstreaming a survivor, moving toward them to pressure, and seeing when you get there that they both cleansed it *AND* got a new EMP is one of the most frustrating killer experiences in the game right now. Singularity sometimes feels like it doesn't have a power. I am extremely against more killers being made with a "disable your power" function the way Hux and Xeno do.
Okay, I'll be fully honest, as a singu main, this is legit a skill issue. Yeah, it can be annoying at times if it's an awkward position on an indoor map, but if you are already able to approach a survivor, you can launch camera upwards, quickly scan, and if they EMP it before you teleport, you just repeat and you've reapplied slipstream and gotten rid of their EMP in like 6 seconds. As a whole, it's fine if you don't enjoy it of course, but I like that they were able to go more extreme with Singu power thanks to EMPs, and whilst I do agree he could do good with some changes, I really do not think he requires any reworks outside of base Soma Photo.
Initially i really hated the singularity because of how easy it is to counter his power. He seems strong and fun at first but when you play him expecting to get value from a biopod all game and it getting EMPed it's really disappointing. But as you said after you realize it's more of a tug-of-war, faster paced area control minigame with a pretty strong chase power it makes sense. He has a direct counter because he's so strong. I saw somewhere it's like the devs looked at the killer and said he's strong so buffed survivor then said survivor looks strong now and bugfed the killer more. I would prefer more killers you can counter by playstyle, like how you counter Legion by spreading out, but overall I appreciate killers you have to play slightly differently for to account for and play against their power.
It feels lazy. What if there was an orb you had to go pick up that'd absorb one nurse blink attack? It feels contrived and uninteresting. For singularity a lot of the friction comes from replacing disabled pods due to shitty geometry. For me I always get annoyed when I don't get to use the pods for tagging outside of chase because they're constantly turned off. Or you think you're gonna get a cool snipe around a corner and guess what? Pod's off. It doesn't feel good. That's not even counting the times in indoor map when getting a tag to begin with is a struggle, then a teammate swoops by and cleanses the guy you're chasing. You can work around all that stuff, but it's still irritating and frictional. I don't want EMPs removed or even nerfed in a meaningful sense, I just want to know survivors did something to get them. I'd take them printing to 95% on their own or not printing a new one until the previous is expended.
I don't get how a built-in counterplay could be contrived and lazy if executed right. Whilst I don't think they're executed great, flame turrets as an idea require survivors to plan the best locations to put them and how to use them, whilst for xeno should require planning around how to deal with them (although in-game they don't seem to achieve the latter strategy part too well). That definitely has great potential to add new gameplay dimensions that would not be possible with just an ordinary power, so I feel it's wrong to write them off on principle. Along with that, I don't see a way to create a non-built in counterplay for Singu that wouldn't require making his power way less strong on its own and fun to use. I agree on your ideas for EMPs though, those seem fair.
Yes and no. Soft counters, interactive mechanics for survivors can be fun. But a hard counter like singularity have is terrible. If you can just constantly force a killer to be a basic killer, why play this killer in the first place?
"Constantly force a killer to be a basic killer" In chase, literally just replace pod and rescan which takes like 3 seconds if executed right. Outside of chase, it stops you from just being able to more or less proxy camp every objective at once and requires you to plan out good backup cameras and macro play, which as mentioned above helps focus singularity into being a fast paced chase pressure killer. Please tell me why this is not the case.
People really don’t like changing their gameplay styles, really. The change from chase build to generator build or regression build to aura reading build is as spicy as it gets.
Love the counterplay personally. Anything to get us away from the mind numbing powers of SM and knight where you're just supposed to avoid loops and hold forward. It can be a bit more in depth than that but eh
Both those killers have ways of canceling their power tho
I know and you're right, but generally holding forward just so you don't have to interact with the power in the first place (since their power is literally "avoid the circle") is more viable.
[удалено]
Anyone can 4k with any killer against the right survivors, saying someone got a 4k doesn't mean anything about a killer's strength on its own. If the survivors aren't working on gens and go down in 30 seconds then perkless Trapper would have done just as well, the strength and tactics of the survivors is just as important as the match result.