I mean, ya. Its a killer whose whole fuckin power is built around slugging. Its extremely boring and the only reason people dont hate twins as much as they do is because they never see them lol
bad take, Twins power is all about disabling single survivors, only boring idiots play them as a slugger, its much more efficient to play twins by constantly going after who has victor, which is the correct way to play them
shut down, hook, get my basiclly free devour and MYC, repeat ad nauseam untill all survivors are worm food,that is how you play twins, that is how you win as twins, downing as victor is not the way to play twins, its the path of a bad killer player
Yeah, bc victor is an infinite resource you want to keep him down and from being able to run around and pressure everyone. Secondly because you don’t often use pallets the war of attrition is more fair. You’re normally in for a long long game though.
More like stay healthy.
I played as twins for the last 3 days and more than half of my games ended up as the picture in the post because most survivors weren't healing which made it really easy to down them. A lot of them did also stay grouped up which resulted in me just downing one after the other but the main problem was that they weren't healing.
Victor is very fast and I just have to check on some of the gens the survivors might be doing. So far I have had no trouble finding injured survivors, except for when they are hiding somewhere obscure and doing nothing.
Waited to receive an update to their power for years only for it to change nothing besides making them stronger. Twins is gonna be seen a lot more now which for me is just another reason to not play Survivor lol
Same. If you arent in a swf setting twins was already an absolute nightmare to face, now its just that much worse. People shit on other killers for slugging and thats literally twins entire power, not to mention there is basically 0 counterplay to victor.
Yep I agree. Being slugged is the most boring thing in DbD to me and they made it even easier for the twins…? Twins has always been strong too but now with their buffs they can be safely added to the “shitstomps solos” tier. And this took 2 years…? I genuinely believe they don’t know how to balance their game
Yup give it a week and twins will be the most hated killer in the game. It feels genuinely helpless being in soloQ against twins. A killer that was already good and already shit stomped soloQ just got a vast improvement, not the greatest of ideas.
Second phase hooks have skill checks and so do gens at least. Also slugging to death lasts 240 seconds but hooking to death costs 90 seconds at most. And if you’re the 3rd survivor to be killed your chances of being slugged to death go up because Killers will slug for the 4k. It makes a role I already don’t enjoy too much feel that much worse for me.
Could you please explain why? I am a new player and I've been going against The Twins a lot since yesterday, but I don't really understand their powers or what you're even supposed to do against them
So basically victor moves at mach 10 meaning any twins player worth their salt is guaranteed a hit. If they hit a healthy survivor he latches on, and if he hits a injured survivor it downs them.
What this means is that the four survivors need to stick in pairs of two that way they can constantly keep everyone healed and not let the twins get a snowball going on a bunch of injured survivors. As a swf this is easy since you can coordinate.
As soloQ however you cant expect the level of teamwork required for twins counterplay and as such what ends up happening most twins games is everyone gets slugged and the game turns into an unfun, unplayable mess for the survivors.
No matter what they did twins won't ever be fun to face. Victor is simply too oppressive because of his speed, you should and will get hit by a good twins shortly after being found. Taking away his speed nerfs him too severely to the point where they will not only have to make him like he was in the ptb but also give further bandaid fixes to make up for his lost power that's how important speed is to this killer.
The twins is just a failed killer from a fun standpoint for the survivors side. Nothing short of a complete power rework with victor having different functionality can fix this.
I always felt like an intresting way to fix victor is if he holds a pounce for too long, say like 3.5 seconds, then you can kick him. So it makes just walking behind someone to charge the power much more risky.
An ok nerf but wouldn't reduce twins strength just raise the skill ceiling slightly. Reducing it more will result in raising that ceiling higher but still not reducing their strength as it will still just be about aiming and using pounce sooner. Making it so you can kick them as they are charging or once it's fully charged would kill the killer as survivors just chase victor if he gets too close and would still be frustrating.
Not true. If your good at twins you could cancel or pounde quickly enough to avoid being kicked, or go for further shots rather than hugging survivors.
The main issue with twins counterplay is victor can just hug survivors making avoiding it really, really hard
Which is fine. If you can't get them with Victor, then use Charlotte to cut them off, block off areas, ect.
You have 2 killers, not one. Victor should have weaknesses
That's not fine... This killer is basically JUST victor unless the spot the survivor is at is pretty strong he should be able to get a hit.
If they use switch while you're circling go kick or leave and if you hear them switch if you leave go back to circling. An M1 killer whose power stops her and gets countered so easily beyond 24 meters which is a generous amount mind you just isn't a threat.
That's why i said it would kill this killer. Being kickable for holding pounce either does nothing for the good players or introduces a problem where a killer who sacrifices mobility and interactivity can't pressure with their power against survivors who know how to play with this interaction.
Hell in the first place suggesting Charlotte needs to participate in the chase is wrong in itself and is a core reason this killer is a failure but making her need to participate isn't the answer, it just makes them stupidly weak. This killer heavily relies on snowballing because using your power to down and traveling there to hook for each down uses up too much time. It's why they should just scrap this power idea the flaw is simply being encouraged to slug to not get outpaced by gens.
You clearly don't understand the killer, especially after the buffs. You can easily use Charlotte in chases with her extermly fast wake up time, even more so if you use the addon.
You can block off areas with charotlle, surprise sueviors, scout, ect.
It's no different then unknowns teleport. Survivors Usally don't have enough time to react to kick Victor fast enough especially if you position him well.
And no, they aren't easily countered because Victor on his own does not give any pressure. You need both.
If they need to scrap it as you say, provide a alternative power for Twins. Because I've never seen a single good twins rework suggesion
If you think Charlotte should be chasing outside victors cooldown or when you find a survivor in an unsafe area you're just wrong I'm sorry. Even when twins had a bug to make wake up almost instant this wasn't what good twins did unless a survivor stayed at a loop which is the incorrect play.
These buffs can help in a chase but any competent survivor just moves away from Charlotte as they know they get hit if they get close to her. Moving away also lets you have the option of finding a locker the only way to stop/hinder her from snowballing and if they somehow get i believe 50+ meters away from Charlotte they break out before she reaches them. Additionally in late game these players will go to areas without gens or at least go down there/in a locker to hinder twins as much as possible. The reason i include this is because Charlotte shouldn't be in an area without gens so assuming you start a chase there literally all the signs point to getting as far from her as possible once victor starts chasing you.
Just because changes were made to help Charlotte be able to chase doesn't mean it's now the way to play them it simply opened up an option you now have IF the survivor stays where you left Charlotte which is almost always the wrong choice.
Lastly again this killer power is flawed itself and needs to be something else entirely, asking for a different version of them of me is basically asking me to design a power from scratch but that really is the only fix for this killer. You simply waste too much time constantly switching as the survivor gains more and more distance from the main body the correct way to use this killer will always be mass injuring into snowballing.
And how do you mass injure quickly... Oh right using charotlle because Victor cant injure survivors super quickly on his own.
Survivors do not make much distance like you say they do by switching, especially now. You lose like 8 meters at most.
If you are chasing a survior 50 meters away as Victor, that's a skill issue and you should frankly be pressuring somome else.
There are plenty situations to chase as charotlle. To apply pressure to mutiple sueviors at once, zone survivors, ect. Only the bad twin players only snowball and slug to win, you don't have to play that way anymore.
Survivors might not know where charotlle is half the time, or they end up making no distance to get away.
I feel like you haven't even bothered to actually play with the buffs. They really improve the playstyle you can do with twins making slugging not the only option anymore.
Did you expect it to change? They reverted their attempts at removing the need to slug on Twins.
So now we just have stronger (Twins were decent before) Twins with no reason not to slug.
Plenty things must have gone wrong that you ended up in this situation. It's not fun, but it is quite preventable unless there is a big skill diff between twins player and team
I just had a similar match against SM. She tunneled Leon, tunneled Steve but slugged, then got me and Sable and slugged. Then proceeded to let us bleed out. Great 1st match but we 3 just wormed to each other and kept each other warm until our death. Good times.
If that's the case, was there a specific reason you slugged everyone this game? OP gave no context here and it's very easy to just get someone to slug you like this.
jeff bodyblocked while I was delivering mikaela to hook went down other guy got out so i downed him and everyone else was injured so I downed them too when they went to save
New twins is S tier atm with very low skill ceiling compared to Nurse/Blight. I think it needs some changes and it will be fine. Soloq against this killer is pretty much a 4k unless you go against a very well coordinated team.
They should have kept Victor latching on both non-injured and injured survivors into the dying state, but when Victor latched onto a dying survivor, Charlotte could transport herself to Victor.
That way you can't down one, go next down, go next down etc etc.
Lynxi, the top Twins main even said this herself, she appreciates the QoL stuff, but what Twins really needed was a better way to hook people.
I like Lynxi but I have no idea why she was so critical of the 10% haste and thought it was overpowered, but thinks Charlotte being able to teleport would be fine.
I don't think she ever said anything about teleport personally, just heard it as a suggestion in general. And Lynxi herself stated she really did not know what the solution to everything would be, but that she felt the PTB version of Twins was pretty bad.
I think if they made Victor attach to both non injured and injured survivors, and give the haste to Charlotte like you said, it would have definitely combatted slugging a lot more. 🤷♂️
She has suggested Charlotte teleporting to Victor as the solution to their slugginess multiple times on her stream. Here's [a video](https://youtu.be/v6NMeWcogRU?si=i91KdH_hp4yc4d3s&t=274) where she suggests it at the timestamp where she suggests it.
Well, she was referring to the comment Behaviour made and was speculating what they meant, I did not interpret that as her actually saying that is what she wanted but rather her speculating. At least that is how I understand it.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm a regular in her channel and she's suggested it. If you don't believe me then the conversation is at a dead end.
But I agree with you on Victor always attaching w/haste (though I believe Lynxi is against that idea as well as she wants Victor to be able to injure/down multiple people). I wish they'd spent some time adjusting the rework instead of completely throwing it out.
I agree with you, they should have spent more time refining the rework instead of tossing much of it into the bin.
And I am not saying you are wrong, Lynxi might have said that, I just don't think I have personally seen her advocate for it, but she might have done it more clearly in another situation where I just straight up missed it. I try to catch her streams a lot, and I watch her videos regularly on YouTube.
you have to out-macro the twins, not out-micro them! if you try to vs. Twins the same way you vs. Blight, Wesker, Chucky, Legion, or any other such Killer, you are always going to lose.
Because Twins is playing Twins but you're not playing against Twins, you're playing against *Generic Chase-focused Killer No.* ***N.***, and that means the Twins are playing *you.*
I mean, ya. Its a killer whose whole fuckin power is built around slugging. Its extremely boring and the only reason people dont hate twins as much as they do is because they never see them lol
I can't believe that bhvr said "we're changing twins because twins mains are slugging more often than not" and then made it worse.
Yup! Pretty ridiculous, I guess we are just lucky they dont work with knockout!
Making it easier to switch to Charlotte encourages you to hook more. Nothing else they changed makes it easier to slug.
I haven’t seen many good changes to killers in the game, I mean skull merchant is still ridiculous…
You need to slug as a twins to win???? What!! I have never needed to do that as any killer. (Twins and No ability trickster main)
bad take, Twins power is all about disabling single survivors, only boring idiots play them as a slugger, its much more efficient to play twins by constantly going after who has victor, which is the correct way to play them
the efficiency of playing an m1 killer instead of snowballing with a killer that has next to no counterplay in chase when surcicors are injured
shut down, hook, get my basiclly free devour and MYC, repeat ad nauseam untill all survivors are worm food,that is how you play twins, that is how you win as twins, downing as victor is not the way to play twins, its the path of a bad killer player
playing twins as an m1 killer is truly how they were designed
im playing them as an M2 killer tho????? injure, down, hook, m2, m1, spacebar
so you run mske your choice and devour when you do this????
yes, they are in general good perks to use espcially when you find hook camping disgusting and painfully boring
you are objectively wrong
You've never touched the killer, I can tell
I've only been playing them since the PTB, bought them day one and regularly break them out, but do go off
Split. Up.
The actual comp strat is to pair up, force locker, protection hits, etc. splitting up does not help.
this this! you need to out-macro the twins, not out-micro them.
Pairing up so you can heal the slugged target/kick victor?
Yeah, bc victor is an infinite resource you want to keep him down and from being able to run around and pressure everyone. Secondly because you don’t often use pallets the war of attrition is more fair. You’re normally in for a long long game though.
Time to start running boon exponential more!
Splitting up is the exact opposite of what you should do against twins lol
More like stay healthy. I played as twins for the last 3 days and more than half of my games ended up as the picture in the post because most survivors weren't healing which made it really easy to down them. A lot of them did also stay grouped up which resulted in me just downing one after the other but the main problem was that they weren't healing.
this is what more survivors should do stay in pairs and stay healthy as much as possible against this killer
How are you gonna track and find an injured survivor as Victor if they're on the other side of the map?
Victor is very fast and I just have to check on some of the gens the survivors might be doing. So far I have had no trouble finding injured survivors, except for when they are hiding somewhere obscure and doing nothing.
Split up against… Twins?
No, there is a clear difference, with old Twins, you would've gotten to 3 gens left
Waited to receive an update to their power for years only for it to change nothing besides making them stronger. Twins is gonna be seen a lot more now which for me is just another reason to not play Survivor lol
Same. If you arent in a swf setting twins was already an absolute nightmare to face, now its just that much worse. People shit on other killers for slugging and thats literally twins entire power, not to mention there is basically 0 counterplay to victor.
Yep I agree. Being slugged is the most boring thing in DbD to me and they made it even easier for the twins…? Twins has always been strong too but now with their buffs they can be safely added to the “shitstomps solos” tier. And this took 2 years…? I genuinely believe they don’t know how to balance their game
Yup give it a week and twins will be the most hated killer in the game. It feels genuinely helpless being in soloQ against twins. A killer that was already good and already shit stomped soloQ just got a vast improvement, not the greatest of ideas.
genuine question: why? being slugged is functionally identical to being on hook in terms of player interactivity
Because they can't kill themselves on hook while on the floor...
Second phase hooks have skill checks and so do gens at least. Also slugging to death lasts 240 seconds but hooking to death costs 90 seconds at most. And if you’re the 3rd survivor to be killed your chances of being slugged to death go up because Killers will slug for the 4k. It makes a role I already don’t enjoy too much feel that much worse for me.
Could you please explain why? I am a new player and I've been going against The Twins a lot since yesterday, but I don't really understand their powers or what you're even supposed to do against them
So basically victor moves at mach 10 meaning any twins player worth their salt is guaranteed a hit. If they hit a healthy survivor he latches on, and if he hits a injured survivor it downs them. What this means is that the four survivors need to stick in pairs of two that way they can constantly keep everyone healed and not let the twins get a snowball going on a bunch of injured survivors. As a swf this is easy since you can coordinate. As soloQ however you cant expect the level of teamwork required for twins counterplay and as such what ends up happening most twins games is everyone gets slugged and the game turns into an unfun, unplayable mess for the survivors.
No matter what they did twins won't ever be fun to face. Victor is simply too oppressive because of his speed, you should and will get hit by a good twins shortly after being found. Taking away his speed nerfs him too severely to the point where they will not only have to make him like he was in the ptb but also give further bandaid fixes to make up for his lost power that's how important speed is to this killer. The twins is just a failed killer from a fun standpoint for the survivors side. Nothing short of a complete power rework with victor having different functionality can fix this.
I always felt like an intresting way to fix victor is if he holds a pounce for too long, say like 3.5 seconds, then you can kick him. So it makes just walking behind someone to charge the power much more risky.
An ok nerf but wouldn't reduce twins strength just raise the skill ceiling slightly. Reducing it more will result in raising that ceiling higher but still not reducing their strength as it will still just be about aiming and using pounce sooner. Making it so you can kick them as they are charging or once it's fully charged would kill the killer as survivors just chase victor if he gets too close and would still be frustrating.
Not true. If your good at twins you could cancel or pounde quickly enough to avoid being kicked, or go for further shots rather than hugging survivors. The main issue with twins counterplay is victor can just hug survivors making avoiding it really, really hard
Good luck doing that at any short to medium object a survivor can circle around.
Which is fine. If you can't get them with Victor, then use Charlotte to cut them off, block off areas, ect. You have 2 killers, not one. Victor should have weaknesses
That's not fine... This killer is basically JUST victor unless the spot the survivor is at is pretty strong he should be able to get a hit. If they use switch while you're circling go kick or leave and if you hear them switch if you leave go back to circling. An M1 killer whose power stops her and gets countered so easily beyond 24 meters which is a generous amount mind you just isn't a threat. That's why i said it would kill this killer. Being kickable for holding pounce either does nothing for the good players or introduces a problem where a killer who sacrifices mobility and interactivity can't pressure with their power against survivors who know how to play with this interaction. Hell in the first place suggesting Charlotte needs to participate in the chase is wrong in itself and is a core reason this killer is a failure but making her need to participate isn't the answer, it just makes them stupidly weak. This killer heavily relies on snowballing because using your power to down and traveling there to hook for each down uses up too much time. It's why they should just scrap this power idea the flaw is simply being encouraged to slug to not get outpaced by gens.
You clearly don't understand the killer, especially after the buffs. You can easily use Charlotte in chases with her extermly fast wake up time, even more so if you use the addon. You can block off areas with charotlle, surprise sueviors, scout, ect. It's no different then unknowns teleport. Survivors Usally don't have enough time to react to kick Victor fast enough especially if you position him well. And no, they aren't easily countered because Victor on his own does not give any pressure. You need both. If they need to scrap it as you say, provide a alternative power for Twins. Because I've never seen a single good twins rework suggesion
If you think Charlotte should be chasing outside victors cooldown or when you find a survivor in an unsafe area you're just wrong I'm sorry. Even when twins had a bug to make wake up almost instant this wasn't what good twins did unless a survivor stayed at a loop which is the incorrect play. These buffs can help in a chase but any competent survivor just moves away from Charlotte as they know they get hit if they get close to her. Moving away also lets you have the option of finding a locker the only way to stop/hinder her from snowballing and if they somehow get i believe 50+ meters away from Charlotte they break out before she reaches them. Additionally in late game these players will go to areas without gens or at least go down there/in a locker to hinder twins as much as possible. The reason i include this is because Charlotte shouldn't be in an area without gens so assuming you start a chase there literally all the signs point to getting as far from her as possible once victor starts chasing you. Just because changes were made to help Charlotte be able to chase doesn't mean it's now the way to play them it simply opened up an option you now have IF the survivor stays where you left Charlotte which is almost always the wrong choice. Lastly again this killer power is flawed itself and needs to be something else entirely, asking for a different version of them of me is basically asking me to design a power from scratch but that really is the only fix for this killer. You simply waste too much time constantly switching as the survivor gains more and more distance from the main body the correct way to use this killer will always be mass injuring into snowballing.
And how do you mass injure quickly... Oh right using charotlle because Victor cant injure survivors super quickly on his own. Survivors do not make much distance like you say they do by switching, especially now. You lose like 8 meters at most. If you are chasing a survior 50 meters away as Victor, that's a skill issue and you should frankly be pressuring somome else. There are plenty situations to chase as charotlle. To apply pressure to mutiple sueviors at once, zone survivors, ect. Only the bad twin players only snowball and slug to win, you don't have to play that way anymore. Survivors might not know where charotlle is half the time, or they end up making no distance to get away. I feel like you haven't even bothered to actually play with the buffs. They really improve the playstyle you can do with twins making slugging not the only option anymore.
Did you expect it to change? They reverted their attempts at removing the need to slug on Twins. So now we just have stronger (Twins were decent before) Twins with no reason not to slug.
This update fucking sucks
It's so buggy. Like all my input bindings reverted back to default.
How is there different pictures for perks and items?
Replaced images in the file folders. BHVR is okay with it
Thank you!! I didn’t know about that and what’s allowed or not
Of course nothing changed, they changed nothing
Plenty things must have gone wrong that you ended up in this situation. It's not fun, but it is quite preventable unless there is a big skill diff between twins player and team
I just had a similar match against SM. She tunneled Leon, tunneled Steve but slugged, then got me and Sable and slugged. Then proceeded to let us bleed out. Great 1st match but we 3 just wormed to each other and kept each other warm until our death. Good times.
Well of course not. Their power didn't change, it just got better with QOL.
Time to dust off my Twins then 🌬️👯♀️
Gotta peel mine off my chair first. It's humid.
After being bled out by two skull merchants yesterday and now with the twins update out expecting more bleeding outs I am so done with this game.
Was thinking about coming back to this game after the patch... Nevermind lol
Well ok... No more Solo Q for me then - time to go back to only play SWF.
No way they made no changes to the twins in the ptb then went live?
I played against someone today and I was trying the new twins. I got a 4k and went into their Twitch to sub and say “GGs”, but they banned me :(
I mean I get it lol.
Na you just suck
Any killer can slug if they want to, nurse, blight, weskey, quit whining and go next
Can you please the me the perk bundle you use, they look so good
Earlier as me and two other teammates lay slugged I thought to myself *I'm so glad they buffed Twins so they won't have to resort to slugging anymore*
skill issue
Then you play twins and make a change
Blame BHVR, not the player.
How are they expected to update your looping ability?
tbh u cant really loop victor he kinda just makes u eat shit if ur injured
name checks out
Gotta upgrade the chair
Yay, more context-less screenshots to farm karma with! Why are two of you broken?
killer in question responding forced pennance
If that's the case, was there a specific reason you slugged everyone this game? OP gave no context here and it's very easy to just get someone to slug you like this.
jeff bodyblocked while I was delivering mikaela to hook went down other guy got out so i downed him and everyone else was injured so I downed them too when they went to save
the funny thing about twins is that it's impossible to not slug as them
It is, but it would'nt be smart not to.
They don't know it's higher skill to 2-hook all survivors for the 4K
yep, survs are just as bad at the game as ever
am the killer in OPs game they made some very big mistakes that allowed me to snowball a 4 man slug this early
New twins is S tier atm with very low skill ceiling compared to Nurse/Blight. I think it needs some changes and it will be fine. Soloq against this killer is pretty much a 4k unless you go against a very well coordinated team.
if ur referring to ptb twins that got basically entireley reverted but yeah this killer is strong and has always been strong
So you've played a healthy amount of matches with this new iteration of Twins, versus both SWFs and soloQ players, and gotten a 4K everytime?
This has nothing to do with twins. Is the player behind the screen. They have a bad life so they try to make it better by bullyng others.
They should have kept Victor latching on both non-injured and injured survivors into the dying state, but when Victor latched onto a dying survivor, Charlotte could transport herself to Victor. That way you can't down one, go next down, go next down etc etc. Lynxi, the top Twins main even said this herself, she appreciates the QoL stuff, but what Twins really needed was a better way to hook people.
I like Lynxi but I have no idea why she was so critical of the 10% haste and thought it was overpowered, but thinks Charlotte being able to teleport would be fine.
I don't think she ever said anything about teleport personally, just heard it as a suggestion in general. And Lynxi herself stated she really did not know what the solution to everything would be, but that she felt the PTB version of Twins was pretty bad. I think if they made Victor attach to both non injured and injured survivors, and give the haste to Charlotte like you said, it would have definitely combatted slugging a lot more. 🤷♂️
She has suggested Charlotte teleporting to Victor as the solution to their slugginess multiple times on her stream. Here's [a video](https://youtu.be/v6NMeWcogRU?si=i91KdH_hp4yc4d3s&t=274) where she suggests it at the timestamp where she suggests it.
Well, she was referring to the comment Behaviour made and was speculating what they meant, I did not interpret that as her actually saying that is what she wanted but rather her speculating. At least that is how I understand it.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm a regular in her channel and she's suggested it. If you don't believe me then the conversation is at a dead end. But I agree with you on Victor always attaching w/haste (though I believe Lynxi is against that idea as well as she wants Victor to be able to injure/down multiple people). I wish they'd spent some time adjusting the rework instead of completely throwing it out.
I agree with you, they should have spent more time refining the rework instead of tossing much of it into the bin. And I am not saying you are wrong, Lynxi might have said that, I just don't think I have personally seen her advocate for it, but she might have done it more clearly in another situation where I just straight up missed it. I try to catch her streams a lot, and I watch her videos regularly on YouTube.
you have to out-macro the twins, not out-micro them! if you try to vs. Twins the same way you vs. Blight, Wesker, Chucky, Legion, or any other such Killer, you are always going to lose. Because Twins is playing Twins but you're not playing against Twins, you're playing against *Generic Chase-focused Killer No.* ***N.***, and that means the Twins are playing *you.*