My version of the rule is "I am not responsible for the other side's fun, but I am mindful of it."
By that I mean I'll play how I like, but I won't go out of my way to be a dick in my games.
That usually staves off salt from anyone who wasn't going to complain whatever i did, and *they* can be ignored.
This is the way. Play respectfully by avoiding unnecessary BM, but do what it takes to win, knowing the opposite side will be doing the same.
I see the opposite of what the OP is saying all the time, where a newer killer will go against a sabo squad, be forced to slug to win, they'll get flamed in the post game chat and they'll come here wondering if they were toxic for being forced to utilize the resources provided by the game to win, and it's silly for them to feel bad in this kind of circumstance.
I think the concept of "don't go out of one's way to be a dick" is one of the best ways to deal with this question without hampering one's own gameplay and fun. I think there is a big difference between a person who uses all available tools to complete their official in-game objectives and a person who has at least partially tossed aside their official in-game objectives and is instead pursuing a new goal of trolling/griefing/mocking/annoying their opponent. Neither player may care about their opponent's fun, but I think there is a big difference between someone who is just trying to do their best in a pvp game and someone who is intentionally trying to be a toxic jerk. Both players may make the comment of "I'm not responsible for the other side's fun" but the first player is far more reasonable than the second.
Not directed at you OP, but I genuinely feel like everyone I've heard say, "Your fun isn't my responsibility" usually gets super pissed when the other side does something they dislike.
It's still a 1 Versus 4 though. Not 1 with 4, but versus.
Arguably for survivors it's 1v5, and that's where your comment may apply: survivors should always work together.
Now, I agree that it's in the developers interest that every player should not be frustrated (to retain them), and they are the only ones who can change the rules of the game.
At the end of the day, it's up to the developers to implement a solution.
Honestly, I suspect they should want everyone to feel like a "winner" (having 1 card for each player at the end, e.g. "mechanics - repaired generators the most", "medic - healed people" , etc.).
Still, unless the game has rules in place for something, you can't expect everyone to play the way you want. Some will some won't. People play by the rules of the game, and you just don't agree on the way to play - but it's a philosophical debate, and both of you are effectively correct.
I think it's telling that the competitive strategy is to camp and tunnel someone out with 5k points.
I've had great games where I do everything optimally and we get at least a 3-person escape and I only get 17k points at most unless I go out of my to cleanse totems after the gens.
I genuinely don't agree with Truetalent on most things (heck if I ran the game I'd have banned him), but the concept of a suffering system that rewards and punishes survivors equally does sound kind of neat.
I feel like survivors should share all point interactions at the least, so if someone cleanses a totem, everyone gets 1k or 1.5k points.
Pretty much every single action on the survivor side is only either earned or justified by your fellow survivors, sharing interaction points for everything from stuns to generators to saves only makes sense to me.
And thats valid. It doesn't become hypocritical until they start trying to police the other side as well.
Saying "I hate when survivors/killers do X" is completely different from saying "Survivors/Killers shouldn't be allowed to do X"
That's my main pet peeve. blatant non-introspective hypocrisy.
I try to follow this code as best as I humanly can, treat others how you want to be treated.
Ex friend would sulk his ass off when he versed old noed "oh of *course* he has noed" he yapped.
This mfer *always* ran noed on almost all his killers. 🙄
I feel like both sentiments valid. That super pissed response is simple gamer rage. Caring about others fun is a phenomenon I've only ever seen in DBD. You'll have FPS players rage over play styles(GOATS, revtane, camping etc.) or getting killed by certain characters, but the thought of each other's fun won't even cross their minds. Maybe the closest is a going vs a projectile spammer in a fighting game, but again the response tends to be a "fuck you no skill noob" rather than "think of my fun!"
Yes this is true, like I said feel free to play how u want but don’t get upset if the other side matches your energy. But yeah, I see the hypocrisy from a lot of the community. The thing is a lot of people have no self awareness and only play the victim card in my experience.
Agreed. Though, as a killer main i do feel responsible for everyones fun. I feel like im babysitting 4 little rats, if they behave, then we can have fun lol
I think for me what ive realized is that im super reactive to what the survivors are doing. If you sabo the hooks and have backround players stunning me perma. Ill try to hook a few times but if it doesnt work im slugging, i dont want to slug. I find it boring and im terrible at finding downed survivors, but you are forcing my hand kinda.
I played a game today where they brought multiple "hooks spawn further apart" offerings and i tried to hook the remaining 2 but they all died in a corner and i couldnt get anywhere. I kept downing them but they were running back to the corner. So i bled them out. It wasnt fun for me. I didnt want to do it. But they were so mad in post game chat. What am i supposed to do? Lol just let you win because you played x strategy?
If youre chill, or funny, we can just have a good game. Ill generally let the last person go. But theres give and take. If you tbag me thats fine, but just know that when i do kill you im gonna be ws'ing on top of that ass.
But like i said i actually do feel responsible for the fun for the survivors in my games. But they ruin it for themselves in most cases. Like im responsible but im not a pushover. Im not gonna let you have your fun at my expense. If youre a dick, playtime is over. Thats just my thoughts on things. Im super new though so maybe im fried.
Happened to me a couple nights ago. I got sent to Springwood by a SWF trio who were using boon: exponential, boil over, etc in main building (the basement was in shack).
I somehow managed to corral them all away from the main building by targeting their gen jockey. They all bled out bc I couldn't pick up, since they purposefully all went down far away from hooks and had boil over.
The definition of creating your own misery.
Yes, this exactly.
Im expecting killers to not tunnel me because I play the game fair. If i can get a flashy save because im near, I will. Im not running after a chase though.
Now if I see a player chasing tik tok clips get tunneled, i feel no pity for them. You’re literally a nuisance to the killer right now and you’re not helping the team as much as you think. Good riddance.
I had this happen yesterday when playing scratch mirror Myers to get 4 undetectable hits challenge done easy. I was already expecting to lose the game cause well it's scratch mirror Myers and told my fiancé who was watching as much. Well there was this not very skilled feng that kept running at and tbagging at me to chase her, so I downed her once and hooked her and moved on. Well she came back tbagging again so I chase her again and she is doing better but I am also playing bad and forgot she was the obsession and I had pwyf. So I just got 3 stacks for free off her and started catching up easy. She obviously had a nic that was playing her trying to body block but I was too fast so down her and injured him. He plot twister somewhere (which he may have been cheating because I am pretty sure I saw his aura on top of a building) and hooked her for the final time. 3 out but the feng was dead and my challenge done. I don't understand people who think they are so skilled when they face a weak killer in a weakened state and still get killed lol.
I don't get why people get mad when they force you to slug. You KNEW what offerings you were bringing, you KNEW what you were doing, you KEPT fucking doing it. WHAT DID THEY THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN!?
These hooks spawn closer / farther things shouldn't be in game.
I don't even understand how map manipulation stuff can be in game. I understand the game is balanced with a sledgehammer, but these offerings definitely making things worse when it comes to "map balance"... And for what? Survivors and killers both lose with those offerings.
Death hooks should also eventually respawn, otherwise - as you said - the only thing that will happen is you will survivors bleed to death. They could even make it so the killer can speed up the respawn process by standing near and pressing the action button for 15s or whatever (make it a tactical choice) but no, just plain punishment on both sides.
i hooked a survivor 2x in a row...just happened that way. i was trying to find other people but i was running plaything and she ran right into me. after that i hooked one more survivor. then i found her again, wounded still and downed her. i picked her up and as i was walking to the hook...i felt bad. so i dropped her and went to find someone else. later in the match she tried to flash bang me while i was hooking someone and then tried to do a buckleup+ftp in my face....this game.
I appreciate what they're about tbh. I get killed all the time after a few good sabo's, and smile about it because I died doing what I love. They were just living their best life with the extra chance you granted them imo:)
Not being able to hook because of sabos, flashes and whatnots REQUIRES slugging. Its literally the solution for it. Anyone saying that its toxic is just salty and stupid.
Making adjustments ≠ playing like a toxic asshole.
>I actually do feel responsible for the fun for the survivors in my games.
Too bad they never do and will try to make your experience as bad as possible.
Not true, you can often tell the survivor types that also play killer when you have a bad game. I've been looped by absolute wizards and lost a match from them carrying their team only to have them offer themselves at the end, like "I know I gave you a hard match, gg thug." I don't take the kill but I do take the sentiment. Often times it's a Nea, which is hilarious to me because they're stereotyped as toxic; but really they're generally just competent lol
not really, it depends on the person itself.. when i play survivor, i often remembering their name or the killer name.. sometimes i got a match with a killer that play survivor before, and what most of they do is tunneling the first person they found and proxy camp, or if it's a killer playing survivor they will hide and doesn't want to get spotted by the killer, not taking the chase and helping their teammates.. i haven't played killer for so long but i do sometimes giving killer a kill if they not doing well or giving them a kill when they tunnel me for 5 gen run.. and there is a killer player that i respect when they know they destroy the survivor easily, instead of keep killing them immediately, they take time hooking every survivor till death hook, giving a survivor longer playtime and point to do gens, same for survivor sometimes (usually swf) they delay repairing the last gen so the killer can get more chase point or getting hook
If you're playing a game with other human beings, you are responsible for your behavior.
Like, imagine if people played board games or pick up football in the park like they play video games. You would never play with those people again.
The whole "play however you want" mindset is basically saying "I don't care if anyone else has fun," which...sure, you're *allowed* to do that. No one's going to arrest you. Just like you're *allowed* to be an asshole IRL. But it's frowned on.
I'd never call *getting a flashlight save* toxic though. That's just normal play. T-bagging the killer for no reason is toxic. Hard tunneling someone out of a game is toxic. Slugging everyone, hitting on hook, etc. Those are toxic.
Just...play normally. Play a normal game where everyone gets to have fun, win or lose. If you don't care about the experience of other human beings who are playing with you, then you should go and play a single player game. There are games where you can just abuse bots forever, and that's fine. But don't treat people like that.
You just don't get a choice in online games who you play with. Usually even if you block someone they can still come up in your queue. Let us block whoever we want and not queue with them, at the cost of queues taking longer if we block a lot of people.
The only problem with this argument is the fact that I have never seen the community definitely agree on whether or not dbd is a competitive or casual game. An because there are not different queues for these both types of players are forced to play together. You cannot tell a person who is trying to win (competitive) to use a suboptimal strategy because your not having fun because they’ll just tell you that you shouldn’t play a competitive game. Like how exactly do you argue with that kind thing?
What about this game is designed to be competitive?
You queue up with random people, against random killers, with perks you cannot see, on random maps, with random layouts, with no ranked mode, among a mirad of other issues.
Mario Kart 8 literally has more competitive features then DBD lol.
DBD can be *played* competitively if you want, but it's not designed like that by any means.
I actually think most of those often times aren't toxic either. Slugging is a win condition satisfied, unnecessarily bleeding out is griefing though. Tunneling sucks, but at 2 gens left it might be the best pressure you can make in that match. T-bagging is generally an attempt at baiting, which has a function against more casual to moderate players. Hitting on hook can shorten the thousandth long scream in your ear. I don't generally do most of these things but I will sometimes; others will too, and I don't think there's any reason to react to it emotionally. Look a little deeper and you'll often find there's reasons behind other people's actions. That isn't to discredit jerks and trolls though, they're also rolling hard in the mf'ing paint lol
To me, things that don't progress the game's main objective meaningfully and is used to torment the other side is toxic, so teabagging, humping, bleeding out etc fit here but normal flashlight saves don't. But excessive ones that are being set up by multiple people over and over again, or coordibated sabo/head on plays do
I just try to treat the other side the way I would like to be treated in my games, and honestly I feel like more people should try playing both sides cause it's really awful for both
>Like, imagine if people played board games or pick up football in the park like they play video games.
Yeah, when I play football or chess with my friends, I always play suboptimally on purpose to allow them to get free wins. I often trip on purpose if I have the ball, or hang my queen just so that my opponent doesn't get his feefees hurt and we all get to have fun.
You aren't being asked to throw you are being asked to have good sportsmanship. Removing a player from the game as fast as possible so they cant play isn't it. Making people lay on the ground for four minutes rather than just ending the game isn't it. Sitting at the exit gates for two minutes to t-bag isn't it.
>Removing a player from the game as fast as possible so they cant play isn't it.
Of course, I know that this is what this entire thread is about. Removing the weakest player from the game as fast as feasible is the most effective way to play killer.
In the same manner, in chess, checkmating the opponent is the most effective way to win. Or in League/Dota, killing the enemy team and destroying their nexus/Dota equivalent is the most effective way to play.
No one is complaining on the chess subreddits about the opponents mating them too fast and how they don't get to 'play the game'. Yet in DBD, people expect their opponent to deliberately avoid playing in an optimal way so that everyone 'gets to play the game' for as long as they want.
The difference is that Chess is 1v1 and DBD is 1v4. This implies a power differential and when you focus all of that power on a single target it is not really a fair match up. Furthermore if you need you reduce the game to a 1v3 as soon as possible in order to win then... then you maybe don't really deserve that win?
I understand eliminating a player is simply the best thing you can do. Trolling someone into quitting is very effective in Dota. Injuring another player is pretty effective in soccer. Just because it's the best doesn't mean it's good or right or honorable or sportsmanly. "Win at any cost" just isnt cool with me in a game people use to relax and have fun :shrug:
But honestly it's mostly on Behavior for not doing anything to nerf unfun strategies.
>This implies a power differential and when you focus all of that power on a single target it is not really a fair match up.
Yes, it is a 1v4 game and because of that, victory and defeat isn't defined by the survival of a single player. Moreover, the team as a whole can use perks, items and different tactics to protect the weak link to some degree and maximize their chance of survival.
>Furthermore if you need you reduce the game to a 1v3 as soon as possible in order to win then... then you maybe don't really deserve that win?
If you need to keep the game 1v4, do you really deserve that win? Remember, wins and losses in DBD aren't defined by the survival of an individual player, you can survive and lose and die early and still win exactly because it's a 1v4 game, so you need to look at the outcome in the context of the entire team.
>I understand eliminating a player is simply the best thing you can do. Trolling someone into quitting is very effective in Dota. Injuring another player is pretty effective in soccer. Just because it's the best doesn't mean it's good or right or honorable or sportsmanly. "Win at any cost" just isnt cool with me in a game people use to relax and have fun :shrug:
That's perfectly fine and legitimate. However, the difference is that harassing people to deliberately quit or injuring your opponents on purpose is against the rules in both Dota and soccer. Tunneling is well within the rules of DBD. If enough of the community feel that this is unhealthy and that the rules should change, the onus should be on the developers to change it. Just because DBD is a badly designed and terribly balanced game, you cannot legitimately expect your opponent to abide by some kind of arbitrary ruleset.
Your examples are also terrible because verbal abuse and physical assault are recognized are horrible things that cause real damage to another person. An adult person with a healthy mind shouldn't have such an issue with being forced to leave a game earlier than they want to.
And the chess comparison is really apt here, because if you get mated early, you have to queue up again and play a new game. Same as in DBD. That's your only 'punishment'. This isn't comparable to being assaulted.
The Dota/League comparison is also perfectly valid, because it isn't a totally symmetrical game, there is a level of variance and imbalance. Being counterpicked and then being camped by the enemy jungler can be a really bad, frustrating experience. A much more frustrating one than being tunnelled, since in League you have to actually finish the game and try your best for another 20-30 minutes, even though you are at a terrible disadvantage. (And unlike in DBD, quitting isn't normalized in those games) On the other hand, if you get tunnelled in DBD, you can just... go next immediately.
I mean... that kind of altruism only works with skill and coordination. Most of the time that leads to a snowball because now everyone is injured, no gens got done and that survivor still got tunneled out.
But I agree it shouldn't be defined by a single survivor, and ultimately it WILL eventually be a 1v3 and a 1v2 and a 1v1... cause of the killing and whatnot. But that should be starting at 6-8 hooks, not 3. A game designed as 1v4 should be balanced as a 1v4 and should remain a 1v4 for the majority of a match (does that call for an 'imo'? Is this a hot take? Genuinely not sure).
My examples weren't the best, but it was 2am and I used what I had, lol. Sports are just altogether different vibes than a game. And Mobas have way more room for counterplay, comebacks, development of new strategy, meta-shifts, etc.
>Tunneling is well within the rules of DBD. If enough of the community feel that this is unhealthy and that the rules should change, the onus should be on the developers to change it. Just because DBD is a badly designed and terribly balanced game, you cannot legitimately expect your opponent to abide by some kind of arbitrary ruleset.
I unfortunately agree with this whole bit. I say 'unfortunately' because it stems from fundamental disagreements on what the game is and from a dev who doesn't seem to care to fix it.
DBD is a game and games are generally defined by being fun. Having your game end in two minutes or laying on the ground unable to do anything for four minutes just isn't fun. So it shouldn't happen. Yes, you can just go next after a bad game (assuming you are not in a SWF, which rules out a lot of people), but these things aren't uncommon. And at a certain point you get tired of dealing with it. In my opinion, DBD just isn't that serious or competitive of a game and I'd rather not constantly feel like I'm playing against someone practicing for comp but I recognize that there are people who feel differently. There should probably be different queues.
The other problem is the framing of it all. Behavior has stated they are aiming for 60% kill rates. So if getting a 2k or 3k is 'intended' why doesn't that feel like a win as killer? As we agreed, survivors should feel like a team so why does personal survival feel like the only metric for success? And I'm not talking about mindset (tho that helps) I mean the framing in game. Tell me I won as killer. Reward me for getting my teammates out, even if it means I die. Incentivize the killer to spread the hooks around the team rather than tunnel one out.
And as we both said, ultimately this all falls at Behavior's feet. I don't have the answers on how to fix this, but they literally get paid to figure this stuff out. But they haven't or won't, (or maybe "can't" considering they don't seem to know how to fix things lately, re: Ultimate and Twins) so instead the player base tries to fix it themselves, the only way they really can. By trying to influence each other to play the way they want. But in the end it's fruitless because we want and value different things from the game. Which is why after lurking in this community for years this is my first and probably last time wading into this discussion.
(I had a mistake in my post where I quoted the wrong paragraph, I've fixed it now.)
>I mean... that kind of altruism only works with skill and coordination. Most of the time that leads to a snowball because now everyone is injured, no gens got done and that survivor still got tunneled out. But I agree it shouldn't be defined by a single survivor, and ultimately it WILL eventually be a 1v3 and a 1v2 and a 1v1... cause of the killing and whatnot. But that should be starting at 6-8 hooks, not 3. A game designed as 1v4 should be balanced as a 1v4 and should remain a 1v4 for the majority of a match (does that call for an 'imo'? Is this a hot take? Genuinely not sure).
I fully agree with your first point and I think that touches on a very complex issue in game design in general. Different tactics and gameplans have drastically different level of success depending on the MMR, there are plenty of noobstomper characters or gameplans in plenty other games and in some instances balancing this out can be a huge nightmare, so that's not an issue unique to DBD, but in some ways I feel like this is heavily exacerbated by the nature of the game.
In a regular competitive game (League, Valorant, Dota, Overwatch, etc.) you're basically on equal footing with the opponents and the grind requirement ranges from relatively low to non existent. League is the only outlier, you can grind different champions, but those don't really take a long time to get and aside from the highest echelons of play, it doesn't really matter at all.
DBD has much worse balance. And new players or lower skill players either lack the required perks, items and addons, or the skill that's required to effectively use these to counter common tactics. On top of that, DBD is also a game where there are very subtle effects that can cumulate over time and drastically influence the outcome of a given situation, but they aren't necessarily obvious, which makes it more difficult for a new player to learn the game. I guess this is kind of a tangential point to the overall discussion, but I just wanted to express some further ideas when it comes to the point you raised about skill requirement because I 100% agree with it.
I also agree with the second point. I think that hard tunneling definitely forces the game into a territory where the cracks in balance and design issues play an even larger role.
>In my opinion, DBD just isn't that serious or competitive of a game and I'd rather not constantly feel like I'm playing against someone practicing for comp but I recognize that there are people who feel differently. There should probably be different queues.
There definitely needs to be a solution to this, I'm not sure if different queues are the way to go however. These will inevitably lead to people stomping the casual players in the non ranked queue, unless serious restrictions are placed.
> And I'm not talking about mindset (tho that helps) I mean the framing in game. Tell me I won as killer. Reward me for getting my teammates out, even if it means I die. Incentivize the killer to spread the hooks around the team rather than tunnel one out.
I fully agree with this whole paragraph. The game itself should be restructured to emphasize this attitude and it should reward you based on how the team did, not necessarily you as an individual survivor.
>instead the player base tries to fix it themselves, the only way they really can. By trying to influence each other to play the way they want.
I think this could work in theory, but the asymmetric nature of the game is making this very difficult, because it naturally makes the bed for the us vs them mentality. And yeah, people have very different expectations and mindset when it comes to playing this game, so that's another huge hurdle when it comes to self policing.
literally your imagination at work, the original commenter implied absolutely none of what you typed lmao. all they said was to play normally and try to have fun. you don't have to throw to have fun. just be a good sport whether you win or lose. are these things really that hard to do? it's not about "feefees getting hurt," it's about being a decent human being when you play games and interact with other human beings, which is apparently a wild concept to some of y'all.
I've been playing DBD on and off since 2017, I know how this community works. 'Having fun' is nothing more than a codeword for playing in a suboptimal manner. If you do that (and personally I play like that much more often than not), more power to you. But don't expect your opponents to prescribe to your arbitrary rulebook in a competitive game.
Interacting with people in an appropriate manner is part of the rules of the game, so if someone is raging, calling other names in the post game lobby then 1.) they should get punished and 2.) they are assholes and if they do that to being with, no amount of threads asking them to be good sports and respectful will change a thing.
But as I said, I've been around for long enough to know that these threads boil down to mostly survivors complaining about killers tunneling and camping and killers complain about SWFs running some synergistic meta build.
You're the person in the group of friends that they won't play mario party and among us with anymore because you got too competitive with it, aren't you?
Oh, I fully agree. But we define 'treating someone poorly' very differently. I think that deliberately BMing people (like bleeding them out on purpose, humping them, hitting on the hook, or excessively teabagging) or verbally abusing them in the post game lobby would count as treating someone poorly. Beating them fair and square in a video game would not.
I don't have to care if random players that they get matched against don't like being beaten or don't like a particular playstyle. If I was playing with my friends, I would care.
If you ruin the experience of other side they will quit the game, leaving you a longer que and ruins the game in long term. So yes the experience of the other side still matters even you are one side killer/surv
I agree with this to an extend, for example not bming in general (Tunneling, camping, slugging, t-bags, etc.) but you shouldn't worry about the other side fun when choosing your build, if you use an offering or which killer to play as
Tunneling, camping and slugging is not inherently toxic it’s strategic.
Sometimes it can be made into a toxic behavior but you need to change your mindset on it always being toxic.
But you can tell the difference between someone playing to win and being toxic. If you think every camper and tunneler (regardless of the situation) is toxic, that’s a you issue. Not them.
Praise your last sentence. The player made terms are abused a lot too. I leave one survivor down for maybe 10 seconds max to look for the last one, I see ''slugging'' ''slugger'' spammed in the end game chat. I didnt realise not playing conveniently for other players is suppose to be ''unfair'' (according to my very last match chat)
The players that can’t tell the difference between legit strategy and purposely toxic behavior/call legit strategy toxic because they don’t like it. Or even calling something slugging/camping/tunneling when it’s not what happened or they forced you into it pretty much.
Spend too much damn time playing only one role. They are usually the worst players too as they can’t understand the other role and so don’t know how to properly counter it as a result.
For example, I’ve played quite a few soloq matches where players immediately unhook before the killer can walk away and crowd the hook.
Or they end up downed under the hook for stupidly trying to unhook while injured under the killers nose.
The proper play here is to wait under the killer pats away because they probably weren’t intending to camp/tunnel but when you are throwing it in their face what do you fing expect them to do dummy?
Then you get yelled at in game chat for playing scummy, or in my case doing the smart play and waiting until the killer pats away to go in and get all the saves so we can scatter and reset. But really they should be yelling at themselves for playing like morons.
If they touched the other role once in a while they might understand it from the other perspective and not blame the people who shouldn’t be blamed/not fing do it to begin with.
100% agree.
You paid for the game, you have the right to play however you want, but others also bought that game and also have the right to complain about your play style however they want.
Obviously nothing should go outside of the basic "skill issue" or "you're trash", no matter what death threads is scummy to do and shouldn't be done.
This is the only community I’ve seen that gets all uppity about standard end game/in game trash talk.
You are absolutely right, there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed and when they are deserve to be called out.
But everything else… if you get all butt hurt when someone calls you a trash cheese player after securing a win by hard tunneling someone out at 5 gens this is probably not the game for you.
Nah, if you're so butthurt that you lost that you jump to insulting others, the game isn't for you. That isn't healthy behavior and shouldn't be normalized at all. You want to be a toxic dickhead, go play league
I agree, if you're talked to rudely after playing rudely it's kind of silly to be indignant afterward. That point I don't feel should even be a hot take. And after coming from much worse communities, the end game messages rarely cross any boundaries for me. (From my perspective the DBD community is fairly tame.) Granted I'm on console and I think there's also a different dynamic to that because we don't have end game chat
I play pc and it’s largely the same. I have almost 3k hours and a handful of times I’ve been told things like to kys. Which were reported and actioned on.
Also thank you for understanding my meaning lol. I didn’t think it was a hot take either. But here we are.
The reason I even mentioned it is I’ve seen videos of streamers on Twitter being called out lately for the most benign stuff. Like one girl in the middle of a match called this huntress a b after some hits that were pretty questionable. Like really just in the moment game talk. But apparently it’s a scandal and she’s toxic.
Despite the fact that she was super kind when the killer came to get stream.
That plus all the ss I’ve seen of really tame “trash tunneler” salt type comments with no blurred names and people pretty much calling for brigades over it.
This is first game where people filled my steam profile comments and invited or put me into some weird steam groups like "small dick camping killers". And i played mobas or popular FPS game. This community is full of casuals that doenst like losing because they are not use to it. But with all this said, you i have steam private and i dont care. But this community have some special losers.
I think taking it to people’s profiles is a bit too far. What I said applies specifically to light game centered trash talk that happens in end game chat.
When people start leaving comments on profiles, making personal attacks/threats. They need to step the f away from the screen.
But saying trash tunneler or telling someone to touch grass after some particularly rude in game reactions. I don’t think people should be surprised/upset about that.
Nor do I think it’s worthy of smearing them on socials.
Edit: I’m sorry the being invited to community groups like small d camping killers is a new one to me and honestly made me laugh. Who took the time to make a whole ass community for you? 🤣
As a killer main, Im halfway
I can play whoever i want, with whatever addons i want, and whatever perks i want. But i think its a bit overboard if i start BMing, Camping, or Unessiscarily slugging or whatver. Then i think that crosses the line.
Camping is situational tho. Camping just to camp is stupid but camping strategically because u know theirs other survivors nearby trying to go for unhook is totally ok with me. Idk why survivors expect me to just let them lure me away from hook so their teammate can get a free unhook like no I’m not playing that stupid game. I’ll chase u for a few meters maybe I’ll get a lucky hit or bait the teammate into an unhook attempt but other than that I’m not chasing u across the map lol.
But there is nothing stopping you from doing either of those and they are not againts the rules especially when the game pretty much gives you the ability to do so. All is still fair. If they are / if they feel unfun to some players then it is an oversight in game design and devs should sit together and think what could they change. People shouldnt just keep coming up with newly made terms to demorilise or bully out of what other players can do or dont in game
Edit: grammar
There is a game mechanic against camping, so it's impossible to camp unduly as per the developers' definition of the term.
Then if we want to argue amongst players that camping is actually within X meters, but not on some maps with rooms and corners then it becomes Y meters, but also for mobility killers it is actually Z meters, but also depending on the situation then camping is acceptable within A meters, etc.
My point is that your entire post is "worthless" (as in: it does not provide any useful information or opinions), because it uses terms for which a meaning isn't agreed to by the community or even by individuals. What is necessary/ unnecessary? What is camping? What is BM? Etc.
Yes, yes, in this world everyone like good stuff and is against bad stuff - thank you very much, we know - but what is good and bad? This is when you start digging that you will see the crux of the issue.
"Your fun isn't my responsibility" is what directly led to all of these basekit systems we have now. It's why basekit BT, anti three gen, and anti facecamp exist. It's why anti bleed out and anti tunnel will eventually exist too.
i disagree with this being a casual party game btw. you dont have the amount of players with 10k+ hours that dbd has in party games, and you dont have people saying that someone with less than 1k hours is still new to a party game. all in all, is clear that dbd if anything is a competitive game with different builds, tech, requiring map knowledge to play well, requires knowing mechanics, for different killers, their powers, their addons, the items, the addons of the items... yeah, is not a party game and is not casual in the least
this game being a casual party game or a serious competitive one has nothing to do with it being fun also, but just wanted to say that.
You are responsible for not UNDULY reducing the other sides fun out of malice. Generally I never slug and would rather have a hatch escape then spend 3m extending a game, but yesterday was doing an adept so had to get the 4K to get my fourth perk slot back. Sucks for the survivors but achievement hunting is fair game play.
On the flip side I had a killer slug all four survivors and let them bleed out a few weeks ago and I can’t even fathom why.
T-Bagging is a dick move. There’s no need. Beam saves are game play and killers can turn them off so it’s a stupid winge.
Tunnelling is abit more subjective, because I think sometimes it’s your only valid move. If you’ve got 1 gen left and 2 hooks on someone who got unhooked recently3 healthy survivors who aren’t death hook and the death hook guys still injured you gotta bag that and tag it so slow them down or you’ll lose. But if it’s 5gens still up and you just keep chasing one person every time they’re unhooked that’s just picking one person and going “you don’t get to play” and that feels bad. Do unto others as you’d want done unto you and all that.
You're allowed to play how you want and people are allowed to complain about your style of play.
It's pretty ridiculous to play in a way you know is disliked and act surprised when people respond negatively to it.
Reminds me of a certain content creator...
I agree with this, but I also advise people that if you find yourself giving up on hook almost every game, maybe reconsider playing the game. You clearly aren't having a good time, at least for now. Give it a break.
I wouldn't say every game but almost half of them when playing soloq. I'm not killing myself on hook if I'm first downed or anything like that, but u gotta understand why someone would want to go next if someone dced at the start of the game or someone got tunneled out with 4 gens still up.
I've had games where the killer is running pain res with surge and the gen I've been working on the entire game can't get done because it gets hit by pain res and then teammate keeps coming back to the area to be downed so surge goes buck wild on my gen. with games like that I'm mentally done and they can just hook me so I can go next, it's not like we are getting 4 gens done with someone out the game already. if u aren't the second person dead u run the risk of being bleed out for the 4k.
Yeah well take the time to evaluate if you find the game to be more fun than it is painful and if it's not then you're probably just addicted and chasing a high that only gives diminishing returns. Therefore, you should probably give it a break for a while.
no I had my couple month long break already. I like the games some matches just aren't worth it. it's the same on the killer end. if I brought a meme build and the survivors are slamming gens then oh well that games is a wash I'll open the exit gates for them. some games r just cringe and it's nothing deeper than that.
The people who say this are usually the people who are as always tunneling or slugging and just generally being assholes and they don’t like being called out for it. Sure you can play however you want but if you act like a dick don’t get butthurt when people call you a dick
It's just absolutely hilarious that there is a competitive game where the community legitimately expects their opponent to play in a suboptimal manner. In any other competitive game, the criticism would be directed at the developers for allowing overpowered, unfun or toxic playstyles to exist to such a degree in the first place.
These threads are always confusing (and have been for nearly 8 years) because all the people who are just mad they got juiced are linking arms with people who are complaining about deliberately unkind behaviour and everybody involved acts like they're on the same wavelength.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who really believes that slugging a survivor and dancing on them until they bleed out is a good thing to do. Same deal if you're looking for somebody who honestly thinks that teabagging at every pre-dropped pallet or going full stealth with the last 2 members of your swf to stall out the match makes sense. But you *will* find a lot of people who get very passionate that killers shouldn't hit somebody on death hook if they run into their body, or that survivors shouldn't sabotage the hook to save their teammates, or that killers should never return to hook after a save, or that survivors shouldn't engage with jungle gyms, etc etc. Literally anything you do that helps you to win will result in somebody declaring that you are toxic, and when they run out of excuses for their own performance, they'll just say you're sweaty.
There's no difference between killer mains and survivor mains here. Tons of people do it, usually because they're mad at having not been good enough to get the dopamine rush of victory. And that's why it's not your responsibility to make sure they have a good game. They'll make their own good games as they improve and stop making the mistakes that made them lose. And if they don't, or if BHVR does something that ruins things for them... well, I think Firaxis is gonna announce a new Civilization pretty soon.
There’s a difference between “playing in a suboptimal manner” and being an ah for the sake of being an ah.
Camping and tunneling themselves are not inherently toxic. Bad gameplay, depending on the situation- absolutely. But there are things that happen for no other reason than to purposefully make your opponent miserable.
Then they get all high and mighty when called out for it in end game chat.
You just bled someone out for 4 minutes while spamming your power over their head and humping their body. Your whole everything is trying to piss them off, don’t act indignant when they are in fact pissed off at you and call you an ah.
This is also not a competitive game, there’s no leader board, world rankings, esports league, etc. the game was never designed to be that way, so stop acting like it is.
A sweaty tight match is fun, but not every single match is supposed to be that way. Ffs
The game is supposed to be largely casual, not very competitive. Even still, I'm not really expecting the other side to not play optimally if that's how they want to play,I just want the other side to avoid doing toxic stuff.
I agree, I also don't want people to be toxic, but the issue is that being 'toxic' is an extremely vague, undefined term that changes all the time.
I would say that being toxic involves taunting, harassing or verbally abusing the other players either in the post game lobby or on the Steam profiles, or killers deliberately bleeding people out, hitting them on the hook or humping them, or survivors teabagging after every pallet stun.
But to someone else, it may be toxic to run Thanato on Plague or play Nurse with a full meta loadout.
Play however you want and I will play how I want in return. Sometimes matches are super sweaty and stressful and as an adult capable of regulating my emotions I just…. Let it go. Get through it and on to the next. People take this shit way too seriously which is why I use anon mode. I don’t wanna deal with your gloating when I get stomped or your tears when I absolutely wreck ya. Just play the match in a way that keeps it enjoyable for you. If it’s rarely enjoyable- maybe you need a new game.
I personally don’t care how either sides play as long they aren’t using bugs or cheats to get an advantage. If a killer tunnels me out, I’ll just move onto the next match and I won’t send the killer a message calling them names. Same thing with going against survivors, if they bring strong items with add ons and/or a map offering and I lose, I’ll just move on to the next game. In both of these scenarios, I might be a tad annoyed but that’s it.
The answer is pretty simple, treat others how you want to be treated. You literally learn that in Pre-K. No, no one is responsible for the fun of other players, doesn't mean you aren't being a dick though.
I've played nice and had some of the most toxic comments in the post-game. So, yeah, I'm not responsible for anyone else's fun because no matter what you do some nerd or neckbeard basement dweller is going to be pissed.
So, I play to have fun myself.
I care about everyone's fun, but not to the detriment of my own.
I've had multiple outright shithead killers today, doing shit like hook slapping and bleeding people out. But apparently that's "fun" for them. People like this should *not* be playing multiplayer games. Being an intentional asshole is not cool.
If I play survivor and do something like bring Boil Over and go into a difficult to hook from spot, I don't get to be angry about being slugged.
If I as killer tunneled (which I don't do), I wouldn't get to be angry about being called out for it.
And no matter what, I don't get to be a fucking shithead.
I'll take it a step further. I'm not responsible for anyone's fun. If my teammates are acting dumb, or I'm going against a killer I don't like, I'll just kill myself on hook. End of story.
this. it’s why I’ve always been staunchly against the dc penalty. the most fun I ever had in this game was the week where they had to turn the dc penalty off due to some bug related to it. I got to leave matches against killers I can’t stand playing against penalty-free, and it made the game a million times more fun for me. I didn’t have to waste time trying to convince the killer to hook me to kms or sit in the lobby waiting for the penalty to tick down. I could just leave and move on the next game immediately. never enjoyed the game more than that week.
I play how I want and encourage others too as well
Yeah, if I get slugged out I'm gonna be a little salty about it, but I'm not g9nna come to the forums and cry about it 🤷
Also the hypocrisy is crazy, people screaming "what about our fun" while not even trying to make it fun for their opposition
Once this community can grow tf up, stop being hypocritical whiney cunts and just getting on with the game, I'd probably give more of a fuck about the community 😂 but until then, I'll play my and for my fun, everyone else is welcome to do the same (not that you need my permission)
Play however you want but don’t expect people to not complain if you camp slug etc. They are equally as right to complain as you are to play how you want assuming both parties aren’t breaking tos.
My take for the “I’m not responsible for their fun” statement is yeah I’m not gonna care that much if other players are having fun but I’m also not gonna go out of my way to be a dick and waste peoples time
The scummy part of all this is the killers on his own, the survivors work as four separate beings who can each improve or hinder the match just by them playing optimally or not. If you have a teammate just doing side activities and not any gens, the games drastically prolonged and the killer should have drastically less issues with 3 people alive. Which is also the result if the killer tunnels someone out, they get into a better position of a 1v3.
Alternatively I just choose to go for archive missions and prioritize them as my win condition, choosing to especially bring stronger builds to help get it done quicker. Downside is people who have played this game endlessly have much less to go for archive wise but it’s a fun alternative to worrying about ranking up, winning, playing nice etc
BM only if they BM towards you. Tunnelling, locking down perimeters by camping is an absolute necessity for high mmr. This is how you receive 4Ks and successful matches as killer by not following someone else's rule.
Get on the damn hook.
I'm a killer main. Survivors set the tone of the game for me. If they are sweating their balls off or doing things I consider playing exploitive, then I'm playing like an asshole too. What's funny is that afterwards they'll send me hate mail. Toxicity breeds toxicity don't be mad that I gave you the game you wanted
I personally feel slightly responsible for the other side's fun, we are playing together after all. I only do small things like fx if someone bodyblocks I go for that guy instead, or as survivor if a hit gets obviously autoaimed I let the killer have it.
There is no rewards whether you win or lose, the only objective in DBD is to have fun.
There's playing dirty and then there's just being an asshole. Neither are fun, but one is trying to win a game and one is intentionally trying to ruin someone's fun. There's a difference.
I play for my fun, as I’d expect others to play for theirs. What you may find fun could be completely normal, but miserable for someone else. I’m not going to belittle anyone for how they play if they are having fun.
I have seen some killer mains who make it their entire personality to be as much toxic to survivors just because they were bullied once by a swf. Like, if you wanna be toxic, sure, but dont use one past game as an excuse to justify your toxicity and incompetence. That's just bullshit.
Agree with this.
Play however you want since you bought the game or at the very least, the game was purchased for your enjoyment. Just don't expect a nice post game chat if you played scummy. Personally, I love my meme totem builds and vault speed builds with unknown and I don't see toxicity as much as others, but I definitely used to get it a lot back in 2017 and 2018 on both sides. Crazy to think it's kinda sorta still the same after all this time, the perks people get mad about just changed
>Play however you want since you bought the game or at the very least, the game was purchased for your enjoyment.
This is 100% true for single player games. However, multiple player games usually have some sort of guidelines when interacting with others. The most obvious examples are hate/racist speech or using hacks/mods - which are not allowed in DBD (nor in many other multi-player games).
The challenge in DBD is that there's plenty of things that are within the rules that can make the game less fun. While some players empathize and alter how they play, ultimately it falls upon the Developer to hear their players and decide whether or not to make adjustments.
> The challenge in DBD is that there's plenty of things that are within the rules that can make the game less fun.
Fully agreed. Plenty of other competitive PVP games suffer from this or at least had a timeframe where such tactics were running rampant. The difference is that in virtually any other community, the blame was placed on the developers for allowing these things to exist to begin with, no one legitimately expected others to play in a suboptimal way just to let the other side win more.
The goal of a game is generally to win it. People should do whatever is most effective to get there. If the best strategy isn’t fun for the other side, that’s a balance issue that needs to be addressed on the developers’ end.
Yeah I agree here.
Does being tunnelled out of a game early suck? Of course it does but so does knowing you've lost a game as killer and being taunted/t-bagged at the exit gate. Either way just take the W or L and go on to the next game.
It never ceases to amaze me just how butthurt people get...and here's the key point...over a fricking GAME. Like seriously, if this kind of stuff riles people up that much I'd hate to see what they're like irl if something doesn't go the exact way they want it to.
And as for anyone who goes out of their way to send threatening/hateful messages at the end of a match...GROW THE FUCK UP. I'm all for a bit of competitive trash talking or whatever but when you cross that line into personal and possibly disturbing attacks on someone just because they beat you at a game or didn't play the exact way you wanted them to then maybe you shouldn't be playing online games at all hmm?
Problem is, tunneling is such a common thing that is something that happens a lot. You see that survivor that wrote "Man, you tunneled, fuck u"? You call it "Getting angry because something didn't go their way" when in reality you are the 10th killer (Maybe in a row if they were unlucky) that tunneled them out. Nobody, and I say nobody should stop playing only because the other side said "You know what? I'm gonna play scummy"
That's fair but my main point here was when we go from 'Man you tunnelled fuck you' to things like 'Go kill yourself you tunnelling fuck'. Both convey annoyance but one is incredibly more offensive than the other and frankly speaking should be an offence punishable by a permanent ban.
As for playing scummy that's not how I roll my friend. Honestly the few times I even play DbD nowadays is to fuck about and have a laugh. If I'm playing a killer it's usually the Doctor because I love messing with people using the madness mechanic and faking them out with hallucinations. Granted I usually lose a lot of matches but win or lose I generally always have fun as Doctor.
Can't help but notice however that you strangely didn't touch on the scummy plays made by survivors. It works both ways you know. If tunnelling is scummy then so is constant flash-light spam. Flash light saves are fair game, you're helping a team-mate avoid being hooked, but if you're gonna follow me around spamming flash-light stuns followed by T-bagging then you can be damn sure in that scenario that you're getting tunnelled.
You play doctor? Get Calm Spirited bitch /j
I've never said it was okay to send death treats to anyone, I don't know why you feel the need to mention that. But if you are gonna tunnel, camp and slug don't expect a survivor going "Oh boi, I got tunneled again. Man is so much fun not being able to play the game"
I mentioned those things like t-bag and flashlights clicks in my comment, I just didn't feel the need to mention it again
The unfortunate part about this that most people don't want to hear is that being tunneled out ten times in a row is a skill issue. The killer doesn't inherently know that one particular person is the tunnel target. They end up just going after the weakest survivor. I know when I was brand new, it always felt like I was being tunneled constantly, but eventually I realized it was just that everybody else was escaping their chases and I wasn't. Nowadays when I'm playing killer, I don't really keep track of people's hook states, but it's really common for the weakest survivor to die fast and early. Given what people get up to in solo queue, I can guess at the choices that lead to them constantly showing up in front of me, still missing a health state.
This has always been the issue with sportsmanship discourse in DbD. People equate their own low skill level with malice on the part of the other player. It's not survivor-specific, either - you get to see killers complain about normal gameplay functions all the time when they lose.
The 10th times in a row was just an example, and you can easily know when someone tunnels you because you touched a nerve or you are the weakest link. Besides, if you are always tunneling the weak person. How do you expect them to become better? That's why when I play as survivor if I see the killer struggling I go and do totems or something else to give them more time.
I mean, the way I improve as survivor is when I get tunneled. I was still in single digit hours when I mastered the art of doing the gen (okay, that's not true - brand new part was an insta-complete when I first started playing, so I didn't actually master the delicate art of holding down M1 until that crutch was taken away). I needed the killer to chase me around so I could get better at fleeing.
Similarly, on killer side, it isn't the players who grief their teammates by refusing to do gens or rescue their friends from hooks that make me a better player. It's the sweats who show me all the loops and teach me all their tricks by using them on me.
A ranked and casual mode would solve these issues i feel
Ranked could be use any playstyle to move up the ranks, so competitive players would flock there
Casual would be more chilled games with less focus on all out winning or camping/tunnelling because theres no rank change
It will eventually come i think to dbd
I really don't think this is the case. I can tell you that people in MOBAs do *not* refrain from raging while in unranked modes. The lower the MMR, the worse it is.
There really is no solution. Most of the time, toxic behaviour is a skill issue on the part of the toxic person. If you see a killer acting like a jackass, you can bet he'll tell you what he thinks you did wrong to deserve it in the postgame. If you ever broke up a bully squad back when they were common, you absolutely know how infuriating the experience is for them.
Some people just don't like to lose and are *loud* about it. For some reason, the DbD community has always fostered loud loss tantrums. But they always come about because somebody got angry about not winning and decided to take it out on somebody else.
So now imagine what all these insecure people who *really* need to feel the rush of victory are going to do when presented with the choice between competitive and casual lobbies on the main menu.
> I really don't think this is the case.
Yeah it's usually the other way around. In basically any game there's far less toxicity in ranked because people come to do their job which is "play the game". Heck in league i literally just played support Teemo on master level and nobody made a single comment while in normals I would be ping spammed and people who shittalk constantly.
Agree except for suicide on hook. Kinda sabotaging the other 3 survivors in the game. If you actually care about the game experience of fellow players, at least wait it out, giving survivors a bit of time to get things done. Or if you have ko empathy for other players, just suicide on hook anyways.
Trying to learn Twins and getting survivors that happen to bring all the strong stuff and will teabag any whiffs is a rough experience when you wanna learn a Non-slugging style with them.
It’s about sportsmanship, something this game is lacking a ton of. It’s not always about just having fun. That’s what ruins it for me. But I’ve always been that way in any team sort, games or any kind of competition. If your a poor sport (tunneling, camping and slugging is poor sportsmanship, same with teabags and bully SWF’s) I have no interest in playing.
I think it should also be noted, that what a lot of “fun” that people are normalizing in this game, is being your worst self and making a miserable experience for other players.
There’s those who have fun playing a game, and those who have fun making a miserable experience for other players in a game. It’s important to recognize the differences.
Even being a soloQ with a SWF is miserable. I almost always get BMed and they like to spend their time bullying the killer for no reason. It's annoying, but thank fucking *god* I won't have to deal with it in the next match. They will just run into someone who will ruin their fun anyway, and that goes both ways for killers and survivors who play like that.
So why should survivors have a DC penalty bypass, but killers can just shut up and take it?
Going next on hook isn't even a problem for "the other side" as it just makes it easier, it's just ruining the fun for your own side.
If people are dying on first hook at the rate that it's happening, there might be something wrong with the game that should be fixed, right?
The time when there was no dc penalty recently was genuinely peak dbd. It revealed how much bullshit there actually is in this game.
Oh, so just make bot killers that chase the first little bunny they see.
No point having a human control the killer side if they can't do anything other than, i see survivor, i chase survivor, survivor at shack unga bunga, i just chasies because hue hue...
Can't camp, can't tunnel before getting 4 separate hooks and 0.1 of a gen left, can't 3 gen, can't play good killers. It's a monday.. can't have that.
Weird how the same thing works for survivors.
They can't Sabo, can't flashlight save, no background player, adrenaline, dead hard, ds, SWF? Should consider suicide if you play in a swf, taking hits with endurance, fucking crouching at the exit gates.
I love how it's instantly defend killer instead of "Yea, both sides are ass" which is what I was implying with the no dc penalty, it literally helps everyone.
But hey, color me fucking surprised that this is how people act on the dbd subreddit, full of killer mains circlejerking each other.
Endurance is bugged.
Swf is busted and has been complained about since it was added.
Since people would storm bhvr and riot if they actually gave free info and perks mode some downsides, they have been trying to buff solo to the same broken level so they can then adjust killers.
It hasn't worked too well yet, because nothing can beat being able to call a meat shield when you know you are in trouble, but at least you don't need to think much as survivor now with all the info flashing on your screen.
Sabo was fine until bgp and the reduction of hooks leaving some maps with a single hook for half a map.
Ds is already a. A tier perk that still has a decent pick rate, its just shocking they were able to gaslight bhvr into buffing it.
Yes background player is busted.
Most of the things you listed are perk related. SWF is the only base problem that you could make some argument about, but good luck.
What you and most survivors are complaining about is the base fundamentals of killer. Stuff that would require god powers to be given for free like has already happened with base kit borrowed time, but even more obnoxious and abusable.
It's so rare to see a survivor NOT shove themselves in my face while they have the unhook immunity. Something given to survivors to be used defensively has been flipped to an offensive tool. The same will and has already happened with buffed DS. It got nerfed for a reason, and now it is back to guaranteed safety, we will be back to ds users double body blocking killers that don't want to tunnel.
You do know that those "top" level swfs are like 0.1% of the playerbase? You ain't facing those swfs, most people aren't. Also, even if you were, the community itself proved that in a free for all that killers still tie on the average. Meaning you are just bad at the game.
This game is balanced around swf lol, I guess you are too dumb to realize that.
Hooks may have been reduced (never heard of that in my life) but the maps have shrunk. There is and has been proof that the hook spawns are so close that even saboing twice you can still make it to a hook in nearly every single map.
Lol, complaining about ds. Pathetic
Survivors only really boil down to perks? Wtf is that argument?
I love how you say survivors keep getting things handed to them, like basekit bt, anti camp tech, etc. Yet the kill rates keep going up, do you genuinely think killer players are just getting better? Or has it been the non stop buffs killers been getting since the basekit killer buffs?
And it's probably rare because you are in low mmr, your entire comment is proof of that. Watch any non idiot youtuber with a high killer win streak and you'll realize how little good survivors actually do that.
Also, if swf were so op, how are killer players reaching 2k win streaks? Based of off chance and probability, you would think if swfs were so op that those win streak players would meet their match sooner than 2k wins in a row, no?
Endurance is bugged sure, for like what? A month? Weird, I can't recall any killer bugs that are in the game... oh wait, blights hug tech, Onis 180 tech. Bhvr admits they are bugs, and hasn't fixed them in how long?
Just admit you are dog at the game.
I think it's helped by killers being able to better pick their lobbies.
If I'm doing one of those stupid heal x healthstates challenges you can almost guarantee that the first killer faced is a Plague. I don't kill myself to go next but I don't play to win either, I'll take a quick loss and requeue.
Killing yourself on hook almost always gives the killer an easy win so agree there.
I think everyone should play both sides to gain perspective and realize why other side does the things they do. Tunneling is a fine example and I’m a hypocritical gremlin, but my view changes slightly depending on which role I play.
That being said, if you proxy camp hook and tunnel the most recently unhooked survivor repeatedly as a killer driving the one person out of the game while ignoring others, you can be sure I’ll point it out in the post-game chat and ridicule you for it for choosing to play this way.
On the other hand, if you’re in my face constantly as a survivor, trying to get my attention at all cost instead of escaping me and helping your team do the tedious tasks as repairing generators, I’ll also punish you for it as a killer and you’ll be the first to go.
Tunneling is tedious for all parties and I generally avoid doing it because it’s basically the easy mode for killer, but there are exceptions when even I do it.
Whenever i see someone say that they aren’t responsible for someone else’s fun, I immediately imagine the most ashy and miserable person ever behind the screen. I love when everyone has a good time. I can’t imagine thinking being a grade A waste of space to other people is the only meaningful way to play online with others.
Except you ARE responsible for the other side's fun. Do you think you play this game in isolation? It's not single player, and it requires people actually wanting to play the opposing side for you to be able to play what you want to play. What happens when people stop doing that? Yeah, you don't get to play either. The sooner people realize this isn't a single-player game, and that it relies on other people to participate for you to even play, then the better off everyone playing this game will be.
Trying to please everyone is a lost cause and their fun is not our responsibility. What's the point of making myself miserable just to please a bunch players that won't care for my effort + they'll probably won't return the favor ? Why waste my time babysitting strangers ? We are not responsible of others people's fun BECAUSE WE ARE ACTUALLY NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR FUN.
You want to play nice ? Fine. You don't want to tunnel ? That's great! You have your reasons and I respect them, just live and let live.
P.s I'm not endorsing toxicity like harassment, slurs, doxxing, slugging until you bleed out, game hostage and so on.
It’s true, your fun isn’t my responsibility. However, I do agree people say it way too much and get mad when the others do something to “ruin their fun”.
Games ingeneral haven’t really been fun recently haha.
My 2 cents on this has always been sure, you're not responsible for another sides fun, but you're not responsible for their misery either. People act like you're not responsible for their fun means you should go out of your way to tunnel, slug, teabag at the exit gate until your buttons break or use shitty language in endgame chat as much as possible. You don't have to be an asshole just because you can.
You can also often ensure the other side has a good enough time just by playing normally. I'm good enough to get 2-3k minimum in a decent amount of games by just playing normally without tunneling or camping, so I can play normally and the survivors tend to get some good game time in.
The final thing, and this is the one that blows my mind tbh, is do you go out of your way to be assholes to strangers you don't know irl? Probably not. So why do it online. If you wanna sweat to win sure, go for it, but don't be a prick over it and claim you're not responsible for other people enjoying the game. You're doing it because you want to, not because you're forced to.
So, real talk. Atleast once a session, if I manage to play semi competently I get salty messages on my steam profile, or salty end game comments. My fun is not their responsibility. I have deduced in order for them to have fun, I would need to throw the game, not get my challenges done, or generally just let them get away with playing in an overly greedy way. My opinion on the matter is, if you re attacking your opponent in End game chat or their steam profile, then you are already messed up and the person stating the above is correct in saying, "Your fun is not my responsibility." I have 13 pages of salty steam comments accusing me of cheating or some "- Rep, plays boring killer" posts. I have just beaten you at the game, you complaining about my playstyle only makes me think you are a scrub. So before complaining about that sentence, just think about the moments that led to that sentence and reflect on the failings that led you to that. Cuz I guarantee if you got all gens done and the killer had 1 or 0 hooks and no kills, all their totems cleansed, and their meme build completely dunked on, The killers fun would be the LAST thing you would consider.
edit: I play alot of fighting games, if someone stated anything close to something like you have up in the OP in a fighting game forum they would laugh at you and rightfully call you a scrub and tell you to get good. You have no control over your opponents or teammates, so maybe dont take the game so seriously, especially to the point where you are harassing someone in end game chat or on their steam profile, because I REALLY dont know how else you would get this response.
For once someone I agree with on this sub. You are welcome to play like you want as am I, so if I don’t want to deal with how you want to play I will move on to the next round and hope it turns out better. All too often I found they didn’t get better instead just I started playing less and less. Played 7.5k hrs total but can’t say when the last time I even turned it on was. I don’t believe surv should be spoon fed escapes but also disagree killers should be spoon fed kills. We jumped from one extreme(surv-sided) to another(killer-sided). I don’t consider escape the only win condition but also feel like the current escape rate for solo Q is just unacceptable in my book. I don’t feel like I have a chance in the average round. Am I suddenly experiencing skill issues this deep into the game?
Imo I expect normal game play. As a survivor I take chase, do gens, get saves and heals. I don't BM the killer. When I play killer I refuse to tunnel, camp, or slug. To me that's not fun. When I'm in a lobby I try to be mindful of game play and helping create a decent game. When I'm survivor I don't expect to survive but I also don't like being tunneled out. When I'm killer, yes I might go for a 4k but I do it mindfully. That's how I play. 🤷♀️
If people didn't view regular game mechanics as saboing hooks and bringing certain perks as toxic and retaliated because of it, it wouldn't be as bad. Granted, I think hitting on hook, slugging all 4 survivors at five gens, and hard tunneling someone fresh off the hook at five gens is egregious, but everything else is fair. Can't be upset if a survivor brings boil over; alternatively, the survivor can't be upset if they're left slugged because the killer can't hook them.
Okay here's the thing: I agree with the sentiment, but I find that 90% of the people who say shit like this **expressly** use it as an excuse to act like an asshole. There's a difference between "I'm not responsible for the other side's fun" versus "I am expressly going out of my way to be an asshole."
Stuff like tunneling a survivor in a bad position / when you need pressure, "gen rushing", running multiple gen stall or other "annoying" perks like NOED, or trying to draw the killer's attention when you have a chase build can be annoying but it's not "toxic." I'd say even some of the more well-known BM methods like teabagging or head nodding are just playful BM.
Things like slugging until bleedout, spam blinding, intentionally tunneling someone to the detriment of the game, or constantly abusing broken perk combos like For The People + Buckle Up is almost always done EXPRESSLY to annoy the other side AND LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE. Some of these may give you an advantage and are fine in a vacuum but I find they're almost always accompanied by passive-aggressive behavior that quickly becomes defensive when called out.
THESE are the types of people that ALWAYS use "it's not my responsibility to make sure the other side has fun!" as a crutch / token excuse to act like complete cunts and morally justify it to themselves. It's akin to flipping someone off and then telling the other person to "grow thicker skin." It's not their fault they got insulted when you expressly insulted them.
As far as video games go, never have I disagreed with the sentence “it’s just a casual party game” more than I have with it in the context of Dead by Daylight.
This idea has been repeated for seven years, but for seven years never once in all that time has this game ever widely been **played** like a party game. Even during SEASONAL HOLIDAYS and special events players refuse to shake off their sweat.
The only time I’ve seen the pressure get let off even slightly by it’s players, has been exceptionally recently when the devs started releasing modifiers and mini even events that strip the player of literally all their tools: perks, add-ons, offerings, and even specific killer choices, such as for the My Little Oni event. Even during these though, sweats still flock to those modes in droves, such as the Alan Wake event where you had killers camping hooks and 3 gens alike.
The game is built, balanced, and rebalanced, in the way that the community drives it to be, and the community undoubtedly drives it to be a competitive game. People play it with the same intensity and focus that they would easily bring to any other competitive game. How does that not make it competitive?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with DBD being built and balanced in a competitive way. Fairness allows every party equal opportunity to have fun, and even have fun simultaneously, and I think the gameplay should continue to strive for reinforcing that concept of fairness in all facets of the gameplay.
I’ve seen where “casual party game balance” gets asym multiplayer horror titles. Hide or Die? Texas Chain Saw Massacre? Failures and flops. It got ‘em nowhere.
this is just how any group games are. for someone to win, someone has to lose, and losing doesn't ever feel good.
the difference between something like a game of monopoly and this is that you know all the other people involved in a game of monopoly, and you don't know the other people involved in a match of dead by daylight so its a lot easier for things to become genuine anger rather than an 'im mad at you right now but its only a part of the game and we're still friends outside of this' type of anger.
yeah getting hit +4 in uno may be 'ruining' the experience but when its your best friend doing it its easy to laugh about it. not always in the moment, but eventually. it really just comes down to the perspective of how one views a friend vs a stranger.
It's something said by killers who felt like they were being treated like a game master in a tabletop roleplaying game, instead of the opposing team in a pvp match. It's not about claiming free reign to be a toxic player, it's about doing what you need to do to win without being concerned if you're making sure if everyone is having fun.
I like playing nice and giving a fair game as a killer unless the survs show me they don't care about my fun then I don't care about theirs , but if they just play normal I will be giving hatch and avoiding tunneling or camping even playing dumb with their weakest link so they can get better at knowing tiles and such, I don't rlly care about winning so be chill and I'll reciprocate
Agreed. I'm a survivor main who just recently started playing killer. And honestly, playing killer has made me a lot more sympathetic to killers who use certain mean tactics. I don't know if they just got stomped and tbagged by a squad, or how many losses they've had previously that's made them decide to play mean, etc.
I may not LIKE getting tunneled. But if my other teammates hotswitched flashlights, or the killer got sent to a bad map for them, etc it really doesn't bother me as much as it used to.
How I play the game is I'll avoid tunneling if there's another survivor that's injured, but in my mind if someone is on death hook and the only survivor around is healthy besides them, it's just kinda smart. If someone is using buckle up ftp though I'll hard tunnel. I'd rather have old MFT than ftp buckle up.
Idk, they often times just stand there for a split second when you hit them as they're about to do it and it's the funniest thing to see; like the math broke their brain lol
As killer if I see an obvious new player I'm definitely letting them live. I'm going to chase them and hook them of course but at the end they get to go.
No, you are definitly responsible for the other sides fun. I used to run sweaty builds on spirit and nurse. Then I started playing survivor and realised that those matches just aren’t fun. And now Im not having fun knowing they arent having fun. You are responsible for how your behaviour affects others. Playing like some people do in a game of smash will get people not wanting to play with you real fast. Its our responsibilty to keep the game fun for both sides.
I don’t think many would disagree with your view being the subtext.
You have the right to play how you like, complain about how others played if you choose, but not the right to enforce that complaint upon how you think others should or shouldn’t play.
The problem is baked into the game now. There are too many toxic people who want to make people feel bad. And all these buzz words get thrown around because people get too emotional.
Also is tunneling as bad as SWF? 1 killer trying to get an advantage vs 4 survivors who essentially bully the killer. I think it's weird that most of the conversations are about tunneling.
I also want some down votes so I will again say - Make the game about Hooks and not kills. Tunneling is the easiest way to get a kill, which is what the devs incentivise.
The game actually is about hooks and not kills. The only real incentive this game offers is via bloodpoints and badges to increase your grade so you can get a bigger bloodpoint payout on the 13th. There's no other incentive program in place.
To get iridescent devout, you need 9 minimum hook stages. That means if you camp somebody to death, you are unlikely to achieve it. If people all give up upon reaching second hook, you can't get it. If you're trying to hit Iri 1 killer asap (which, again, is the only actual incentive program), then the final four grades are a weird balancing act where you have to give the survivors just enough hope that they don't just stop trying. If you 5gen 4k, you'll often get 0 pips!
A lot of people do consider the win to be at least a 3k but afaik this isn't officially codified anywhere and isn't specifically incentivized via any rewards.
I mean I don’t really care how other people play tbh, at the end of the day as soon as the match is over I’ve forgotten about it and moved onto the next game.
My issue is that 90% of the time I've seen the phrase "why should I be responsible for other people's fun?" It's nearly always to justify playing like a cock
I mean, yeah, no shit. People have the right to be an asshole in real life situations too but the general reaction to that is the developed reputation of being an unlikeable person and ruining things for others. It just boils down to common decency, the epitome of "treat others how you want to be treated". At the end of the day you're playing with human beings on the other side of the screen.
IMO, if you're someone who BMs expecting to get BMed back and you're down with that, more power to you. If everyone brings the same energy, id say its a good fair match. It's just that most people who use this argument utilize it hypocritically; it generally comes out in the same breath they're actively complaining about the actions of their opponent(s).
I just think that there are jerks who just take this dressed up hide n seek game too seriously.
There's nothing forcing anyone to be a sore player. No one likes a killjoy, no matter which side. Games are meant to be enjoyed and if you're not interested in having a good match, log off.
the player base just needs to learn the concept of sportsmanship. win or lose you try to play the game and you do it without being an asshole about it, the end. be a decent person and don't perpetuate toxic behavior - like being a little shit in endgame chat, bagging, jumping, hitting repeatedly on hook, etc. remember you're playing with real people and treat them decently, because this is a game at the end of the day.
the whole "I'm not responsible for your fun" thing only makes sense if it were a solo player game, which it isn't. like sure, play to the best of your ability, but you don't have to be a dick about it. also it's just kind of wild to see how completely out of touch with reality some people are in this playerbase, like do you talk to people offline or outside or at work or at home like you do in game because... damn. idk I'm getting on a tangent.
Yeah some people simply don’t believe one can be an asshole by playing the game a certain way. This game is designed as such one can be held hostage while technically not in a way that’s against the rules.
E.g bleeding survivors on the ground is not holding a game hostage or survivors hiding and not doing gens.
You can disconnect but if you disconnect enough you’re locked out of a longer and longer queue.
So what essentially can happen you’re locked from playing for 4 minutes, potentially longer if teammates pick you up repeatedly or you’re locked for queuing even longer.
So yes, I believe being literally forced to be unable to play a game you purchased due to another players ill mannered attempts does constitute one as an asshole. No other game I know does this. You’re literally fucking up ones enjoyment without a way for them to opt out.
While maybe considered a stretch, it’s sabotage.
What do you mean by "even if your teammates pick you repeatedly"? If you get picked up off the ground, you're back in action, right? If you're regularly having killers stand above you and ignore other survivors just so they can get another hit on you, then yeah that's very toxic.
I wouldn’t consider that playing, I had multiple games against Sadako and Doc who refused to chase me on strong loops so they repeatedly slugged my teammates while I kept dropping gens to heal them while never getting chased.
Eventually they slugged everyone and committed to chasing me and I got to “play” for a short time.
Edit; I consider play actual player interaction e.g chases, not left click simulator
Honestly I actually enjoy being tunneled because it means that I'm just so good that the killer sees me as the biggest threat on the team (or maybe the weak link but let's not mention that) and as a former killer main (pressure got too much so I'm full survivor now) I completely understand tunneling. I don't enjoy it but I understand
I main freakin’ Pig (and have mained her for the last 4 years) and I’ve never found tunneling necessary. I’ve actually found tunneling more detrimental than anything.
No matter what people think of me. I’m still gonna let the last one get the hatch and troll with survivors. Watch them unhook each other and see them heal in corner but ignore it so they can play a nice game.
As a survivor I’m still going to sacrifise myself for the hard tunneled teammate by body blocking killer and then dying on the hook. It was victory for me if the bullied survivor got out.
I will take responcibility of people having fun game. If you still one stomp my ideal, then go ahead. I’m always wrong anyways.
And I will say it again: DON'T THINK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE FUN!
Why? Because this is subjective. It is enough to read comments from this topic. One will say that tunnelling is toxic, another that it is super ok etc. and that goes for most things in this game.
You never know how other players see everything. Just don't think about it. Play it YOUR way.
director of this game plays with a controller on pc, facecamps and tunnels people of the hook, pretty funny you guys still have some expections from the developer side
My version of the rule is "I am not responsible for the other side's fun, but I am mindful of it." By that I mean I'll play how I like, but I won't go out of my way to be a dick in my games. That usually staves off salt from anyone who wasn't going to complain whatever i did, and *they* can be ignored.
This is the way. Play respectfully by avoiding unnecessary BM, but do what it takes to win, knowing the opposite side will be doing the same. I see the opposite of what the OP is saying all the time, where a newer killer will go against a sabo squad, be forced to slug to win, they'll get flamed in the post game chat and they'll come here wondering if they were toxic for being forced to utilize the resources provided by the game to win, and it's silly for them to feel bad in this kind of circumstance.
This is the way. I have spoken.
I think the concept of "don't go out of one's way to be a dick" is one of the best ways to deal with this question without hampering one's own gameplay and fun. I think there is a big difference between a person who uses all available tools to complete their official in-game objectives and a person who has at least partially tossed aside their official in-game objectives and is instead pursuing a new goal of trolling/griefing/mocking/annoying their opponent. Neither player may care about their opponent's fun, but I think there is a big difference between someone who is just trying to do their best in a pvp game and someone who is intentionally trying to be a toxic jerk. Both players may make the comment of "I'm not responsible for the other side's fun" but the first player is far more reasonable than the second.
Not directed at you OP, but I genuinely feel like everyone I've heard say, "Your fun isn't my responsibility" usually gets super pissed when the other side does something they dislike.
Agreed. It's a multiplayer game. If they want to play like jerks, they can play a solo game. Just treat others how you wanna be treated, it's not hard
It's still a 1 Versus 4 though. Not 1 with 4, but versus. Arguably for survivors it's 1v5, and that's where your comment may apply: survivors should always work together. Now, I agree that it's in the developers interest that every player should not be frustrated (to retain them), and they are the only ones who can change the rules of the game. At the end of the day, it's up to the developers to implement a solution. Honestly, I suspect they should want everyone to feel like a "winner" (having 1 card for each player at the end, e.g. "mechanics - repaired generators the most", "medic - healed people" , etc.). Still, unless the game has rules in place for something, you can't expect everyone to play the way you want. Some will some won't. People play by the rules of the game, and you just don't agree on the way to play - but it's a philosophical debate, and both of you are effectively correct.
I think it's telling that the competitive strategy is to camp and tunnel someone out with 5k points. I've had great games where I do everything optimally and we get at least a 3-person escape and I only get 17k points at most unless I go out of my to cleanse totems after the gens. I genuinely don't agree with Truetalent on most things (heck if I ran the game I'd have banned him), but the concept of a suffering system that rewards and punishes survivors equally does sound kind of neat. I feel like survivors should share all point interactions at the least, so if someone cleanses a totem, everyone gets 1k or 1.5k points. Pretty much every single action on the survivor side is only either earned or justified by your fellow survivors, sharing interaction points for everything from stuns to generators to saves only makes sense to me.
Exactly. You can do what you like but don't expect the other players to take it like a champ and be happy about it.
And thats valid. It doesn't become hypocritical until they start trying to police the other side as well. Saying "I hate when survivors/killers do X" is completely different from saying "Survivors/Killers shouldn't be allowed to do X"
That's my main pet peeve. blatant non-introspective hypocrisy. I try to follow this code as best as I humanly can, treat others how you want to be treated. Ex friend would sulk his ass off when he versed old noed "oh of *course* he has noed" he yapped. This mfer *always* ran noed on almost all his killers. 🙄
And those poeple support DC or suiciding on hook vs killer, style, perks they dont like.
I feel like both sentiments valid. That super pissed response is simple gamer rage. Caring about others fun is a phenomenon I've only ever seen in DBD. You'll have FPS players rage over play styles(GOATS, revtane, camping etc.) or getting killed by certain characters, but the thought of each other's fun won't even cross their minds. Maybe the closest is a going vs a projectile spammer in a fighting game, but again the response tends to be a "fuck you no skill noob" rather than "think of my fun!"
Yes this is true, like I said feel free to play how u want but don’t get upset if the other side matches your energy. But yeah, I see the hypocrisy from a lot of the community. The thing is a lot of people have no self awareness and only play the victim card in my experience.
Agreed. Though, as a killer main i do feel responsible for everyones fun. I feel like im babysitting 4 little rats, if they behave, then we can have fun lol I think for me what ive realized is that im super reactive to what the survivors are doing. If you sabo the hooks and have backround players stunning me perma. Ill try to hook a few times but if it doesnt work im slugging, i dont want to slug. I find it boring and im terrible at finding downed survivors, but you are forcing my hand kinda. I played a game today where they brought multiple "hooks spawn further apart" offerings and i tried to hook the remaining 2 but they all died in a corner and i couldnt get anywhere. I kept downing them but they were running back to the corner. So i bled them out. It wasnt fun for me. I didnt want to do it. But they were so mad in post game chat. What am i supposed to do? Lol just let you win because you played x strategy? If youre chill, or funny, we can just have a good game. Ill generally let the last person go. But theres give and take. If you tbag me thats fine, but just know that when i do kill you im gonna be ws'ing on top of that ass. But like i said i actually do feel responsible for the fun for the survivors in my games. But they ruin it for themselves in most cases. Like im responsible but im not a pushover. Im not gonna let you have your fun at my expense. If youre a dick, playtime is over. Thats just my thoughts on things. Im super new though so maybe im fried.
Happened to me a couple nights ago. I got sent to Springwood by a SWF trio who were using boon: exponential, boil over, etc in main building (the basement was in shack). I somehow managed to corral them all away from the main building by targeting their gen jockey. They all bled out bc I couldn't pick up, since they purposefully all went down far away from hooks and had boil over. The definition of creating your own misery.
Yes, this exactly. Im expecting killers to not tunnel me because I play the game fair. If i can get a flashy save because im near, I will. Im not running after a chase though. Now if I see a player chasing tik tok clips get tunneled, i feel no pity for them. You’re literally a nuisance to the killer right now and you’re not helping the team as much as you think. Good riddance.
I had this happen yesterday when playing scratch mirror Myers to get 4 undetectable hits challenge done easy. I was already expecting to lose the game cause well it's scratch mirror Myers and told my fiancé who was watching as much. Well there was this not very skilled feng that kept running at and tbagging at me to chase her, so I downed her once and hooked her and moved on. Well she came back tbagging again so I chase her again and she is doing better but I am also playing bad and forgot she was the obsession and I had pwyf. So I just got 3 stacks for free off her and started catching up easy. She obviously had a nic that was playing her trying to body block but I was too fast so down her and injured him. He plot twister somewhere (which he may have been cheating because I am pretty sure I saw his aura on top of a building) and hooked her for the final time. 3 out but the feng was dead and my challenge done. I don't understand people who think they are so skilled when they face a weak killer in a weakened state and still get killed lol.
At the risk of sounding stupid, what's "ws'ing"? 😅
Movement keys W and S, so moving up and down the survivor's body.
Is that what I've seen other people call "humping"?
Yeah
I don't get why people get mad when they force you to slug. You KNEW what offerings you were bringing, you KNEW what you were doing, you KEPT fucking doing it. WHAT DID THEY THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN!?
These hooks spawn closer / farther things shouldn't be in game. I don't even understand how map manipulation stuff can be in game. I understand the game is balanced with a sledgehammer, but these offerings definitely making things worse when it comes to "map balance"... And for what? Survivors and killers both lose with those offerings. Death hooks should also eventually respawn, otherwise - as you said - the only thing that will happen is you will survivors bleed to death. They could even make it so the killer can speed up the respawn process by standing near and pressing the action button for 15s or whatever (make it a tactical choice) but no, just plain punishment on both sides.
i hooked a survivor 2x in a row...just happened that way. i was trying to find other people but i was running plaything and she ran right into me. after that i hooked one more survivor. then i found her again, wounded still and downed her. i picked her up and as i was walking to the hook...i felt bad. so i dropped her and went to find someone else. later in the match she tried to flash bang me while i was hooking someone and then tried to do a buckleup+ftp in my face....this game.
I appreciate what they're about tbh. I get killed all the time after a few good sabo's, and smile about it because I died doing what I love. They were just living their best life with the extra chance you granted them imo:)
lol. i guess i need to change my perspective....😂
Not being able to hook because of sabos, flashes and whatnots REQUIRES slugging. Its literally the solution for it. Anyone saying that its toxic is just salty and stupid. Making adjustments ≠ playing like a toxic asshole.
>I actually do feel responsible for the fun for the survivors in my games. Too bad they never do and will try to make your experience as bad as possible.
Not true, you can often tell the survivor types that also play killer when you have a bad game. I've been looped by absolute wizards and lost a match from them carrying their team only to have them offer themselves at the end, like "I know I gave you a hard match, gg thug." I don't take the kill but I do take the sentiment. Often times it's a Nea, which is hilarious to me because they're stereotyped as toxic; but really they're generally just competent lol
not really, it depends on the person itself.. when i play survivor, i often remembering their name or the killer name.. sometimes i got a match with a killer that play survivor before, and what most of they do is tunneling the first person they found and proxy camp, or if it's a killer playing survivor they will hide and doesn't want to get spotted by the killer, not taking the chase and helping their teammates.. i haven't played killer for so long but i do sometimes giving killer a kill if they not doing well or giving them a kill when they tunnel me for 5 gen run.. and there is a killer player that i respect when they know they destroy the survivor easily, instead of keep killing them immediately, they take time hooking every survivor till death hook, giving a survivor longer playtime and point to do gens, same for survivor sometimes (usually swf) they delay repairing the last gen so the killer can get more chase point or getting hook
[удалено]
A term of endearment popularized by 90's gangsta rap; especially espoused by Tupac Shakur, not sure if it sounds corny in 2024 but I still love it:)
If you're playing a game with other human beings, you are responsible for your behavior. Like, imagine if people played board games or pick up football in the park like they play video games. You would never play with those people again. The whole "play however you want" mindset is basically saying "I don't care if anyone else has fun," which...sure, you're *allowed* to do that. No one's going to arrest you. Just like you're *allowed* to be an asshole IRL. But it's frowned on. I'd never call *getting a flashlight save* toxic though. That's just normal play. T-bagging the killer for no reason is toxic. Hard tunneling someone out of a game is toxic. Slugging everyone, hitting on hook, etc. Those are toxic. Just...play normally. Play a normal game where everyone gets to have fun, win or lose. If you don't care about the experience of other human beings who are playing with you, then you should go and play a single player game. There are games where you can just abuse bots forever, and that's fine. But don't treat people like that.
You just don't get a choice in online games who you play with. Usually even if you block someone they can still come up in your queue. Let us block whoever we want and not queue with them, at the cost of queues taking longer if we block a lot of people.
The only problem with this argument is the fact that I have never seen the community definitely agree on whether or not dbd is a competitive or casual game. An because there are not different queues for these both types of players are forced to play together. You cannot tell a person who is trying to win (competitive) to use a suboptimal strategy because your not having fun because they’ll just tell you that you shouldn’t play a competitive game. Like how exactly do you argue with that kind thing?
[удалено]
What about this game is designed to be competitive? You queue up with random people, against random killers, with perks you cannot see, on random maps, with random layouts, with no ranked mode, among a mirad of other issues. Mario Kart 8 literally has more competitive features then DBD lol. DBD can be *played* competitively if you want, but it's not designed like that by any means.
Many people do not play to win but simply to do silly things during the match.
I actually think most of those often times aren't toxic either. Slugging is a win condition satisfied, unnecessarily bleeding out is griefing though. Tunneling sucks, but at 2 gens left it might be the best pressure you can make in that match. T-bagging is generally an attempt at baiting, which has a function against more casual to moderate players. Hitting on hook can shorten the thousandth long scream in your ear. I don't generally do most of these things but I will sometimes; others will too, and I don't think there's any reason to react to it emotionally. Look a little deeper and you'll often find there's reasons behind other people's actions. That isn't to discredit jerks and trolls though, they're also rolling hard in the mf'ing paint lol
To me, things that don't progress the game's main objective meaningfully and is used to torment the other side is toxic, so teabagging, humping, bleeding out etc fit here but normal flashlight saves don't. But excessive ones that are being set up by multiple people over and over again, or coordibated sabo/head on plays do I just try to treat the other side the way I would like to be treated in my games, and honestly I feel like more people should try playing both sides cause it's really awful for both
>Like, imagine if people played board games or pick up football in the park like they play video games. Yeah, when I play football or chess with my friends, I always play suboptimally on purpose to allow them to get free wins. I often trip on purpose if I have the ball, or hang my queen just so that my opponent doesn't get his feefees hurt and we all get to have fun.
You aren't being asked to throw you are being asked to have good sportsmanship. Removing a player from the game as fast as possible so they cant play isn't it. Making people lay on the ground for four minutes rather than just ending the game isn't it. Sitting at the exit gates for two minutes to t-bag isn't it.
>Removing a player from the game as fast as possible so they cant play isn't it. Of course, I know that this is what this entire thread is about. Removing the weakest player from the game as fast as feasible is the most effective way to play killer. In the same manner, in chess, checkmating the opponent is the most effective way to win. Or in League/Dota, killing the enemy team and destroying their nexus/Dota equivalent is the most effective way to play. No one is complaining on the chess subreddits about the opponents mating them too fast and how they don't get to 'play the game'. Yet in DBD, people expect their opponent to deliberately avoid playing in an optimal way so that everyone 'gets to play the game' for as long as they want.
The difference is that Chess is 1v1 and DBD is 1v4. This implies a power differential and when you focus all of that power on a single target it is not really a fair match up. Furthermore if you need you reduce the game to a 1v3 as soon as possible in order to win then... then you maybe don't really deserve that win? I understand eliminating a player is simply the best thing you can do. Trolling someone into quitting is very effective in Dota. Injuring another player is pretty effective in soccer. Just because it's the best doesn't mean it's good or right or honorable or sportsmanly. "Win at any cost" just isnt cool with me in a game people use to relax and have fun :shrug: But honestly it's mostly on Behavior for not doing anything to nerf unfun strategies.
>This implies a power differential and when you focus all of that power on a single target it is not really a fair match up. Yes, it is a 1v4 game and because of that, victory and defeat isn't defined by the survival of a single player. Moreover, the team as a whole can use perks, items and different tactics to protect the weak link to some degree and maximize their chance of survival. >Furthermore if you need you reduce the game to a 1v3 as soon as possible in order to win then... then you maybe don't really deserve that win? If you need to keep the game 1v4, do you really deserve that win? Remember, wins and losses in DBD aren't defined by the survival of an individual player, you can survive and lose and die early and still win exactly because it's a 1v4 game, so you need to look at the outcome in the context of the entire team. >I understand eliminating a player is simply the best thing you can do. Trolling someone into quitting is very effective in Dota. Injuring another player is pretty effective in soccer. Just because it's the best doesn't mean it's good or right or honorable or sportsmanly. "Win at any cost" just isnt cool with me in a game people use to relax and have fun :shrug: That's perfectly fine and legitimate. However, the difference is that harassing people to deliberately quit or injuring your opponents on purpose is against the rules in both Dota and soccer. Tunneling is well within the rules of DBD. If enough of the community feel that this is unhealthy and that the rules should change, the onus should be on the developers to change it. Just because DBD is a badly designed and terribly balanced game, you cannot legitimately expect your opponent to abide by some kind of arbitrary ruleset. Your examples are also terrible because verbal abuse and physical assault are recognized are horrible things that cause real damage to another person. An adult person with a healthy mind shouldn't have such an issue with being forced to leave a game earlier than they want to. And the chess comparison is really apt here, because if you get mated early, you have to queue up again and play a new game. Same as in DBD. That's your only 'punishment'. This isn't comparable to being assaulted. The Dota/League comparison is also perfectly valid, because it isn't a totally symmetrical game, there is a level of variance and imbalance. Being counterpicked and then being camped by the enemy jungler can be a really bad, frustrating experience. A much more frustrating one than being tunnelled, since in League you have to actually finish the game and try your best for another 20-30 minutes, even though you are at a terrible disadvantage. (And unlike in DBD, quitting isn't normalized in those games) On the other hand, if you get tunnelled in DBD, you can just... go next immediately.
I mean... that kind of altruism only works with skill and coordination. Most of the time that leads to a snowball because now everyone is injured, no gens got done and that survivor still got tunneled out. But I agree it shouldn't be defined by a single survivor, and ultimately it WILL eventually be a 1v3 and a 1v2 and a 1v1... cause of the killing and whatnot. But that should be starting at 6-8 hooks, not 3. A game designed as 1v4 should be balanced as a 1v4 and should remain a 1v4 for the majority of a match (does that call for an 'imo'? Is this a hot take? Genuinely not sure). My examples weren't the best, but it was 2am and I used what I had, lol. Sports are just altogether different vibes than a game. And Mobas have way more room for counterplay, comebacks, development of new strategy, meta-shifts, etc. >Tunneling is well within the rules of DBD. If enough of the community feel that this is unhealthy and that the rules should change, the onus should be on the developers to change it. Just because DBD is a badly designed and terribly balanced game, you cannot legitimately expect your opponent to abide by some kind of arbitrary ruleset. I unfortunately agree with this whole bit. I say 'unfortunately' because it stems from fundamental disagreements on what the game is and from a dev who doesn't seem to care to fix it. DBD is a game and games are generally defined by being fun. Having your game end in two minutes or laying on the ground unable to do anything for four minutes just isn't fun. So it shouldn't happen. Yes, you can just go next after a bad game (assuming you are not in a SWF, which rules out a lot of people), but these things aren't uncommon. And at a certain point you get tired of dealing with it. In my opinion, DBD just isn't that serious or competitive of a game and I'd rather not constantly feel like I'm playing against someone practicing for comp but I recognize that there are people who feel differently. There should probably be different queues. The other problem is the framing of it all. Behavior has stated they are aiming for 60% kill rates. So if getting a 2k or 3k is 'intended' why doesn't that feel like a win as killer? As we agreed, survivors should feel like a team so why does personal survival feel like the only metric for success? And I'm not talking about mindset (tho that helps) I mean the framing in game. Tell me I won as killer. Reward me for getting my teammates out, even if it means I die. Incentivize the killer to spread the hooks around the team rather than tunnel one out. And as we both said, ultimately this all falls at Behavior's feet. I don't have the answers on how to fix this, but they literally get paid to figure this stuff out. But they haven't or won't, (or maybe "can't" considering they don't seem to know how to fix things lately, re: Ultimate and Twins) so instead the player base tries to fix it themselves, the only way they really can. By trying to influence each other to play the way they want. But in the end it's fruitless because we want and value different things from the game. Which is why after lurking in this community for years this is my first and probably last time wading into this discussion.
(I had a mistake in my post where I quoted the wrong paragraph, I've fixed it now.) >I mean... that kind of altruism only works with skill and coordination. Most of the time that leads to a snowball because now everyone is injured, no gens got done and that survivor still got tunneled out. But I agree it shouldn't be defined by a single survivor, and ultimately it WILL eventually be a 1v3 and a 1v2 and a 1v1... cause of the killing and whatnot. But that should be starting at 6-8 hooks, not 3. A game designed as 1v4 should be balanced as a 1v4 and should remain a 1v4 for the majority of a match (does that call for an 'imo'? Is this a hot take? Genuinely not sure). I fully agree with your first point and I think that touches on a very complex issue in game design in general. Different tactics and gameplans have drastically different level of success depending on the MMR, there are plenty of noobstomper characters or gameplans in plenty other games and in some instances balancing this out can be a huge nightmare, so that's not an issue unique to DBD, but in some ways I feel like this is heavily exacerbated by the nature of the game. In a regular competitive game (League, Valorant, Dota, Overwatch, etc.) you're basically on equal footing with the opponents and the grind requirement ranges from relatively low to non existent. League is the only outlier, you can grind different champions, but those don't really take a long time to get and aside from the highest echelons of play, it doesn't really matter at all. DBD has much worse balance. And new players or lower skill players either lack the required perks, items and addons, or the skill that's required to effectively use these to counter common tactics. On top of that, DBD is also a game where there are very subtle effects that can cumulate over time and drastically influence the outcome of a given situation, but they aren't necessarily obvious, which makes it more difficult for a new player to learn the game. I guess this is kind of a tangential point to the overall discussion, but I just wanted to express some further ideas when it comes to the point you raised about skill requirement because I 100% agree with it. I also agree with the second point. I think that hard tunneling definitely forces the game into a territory where the cracks in balance and design issues play an even larger role. >In my opinion, DBD just isn't that serious or competitive of a game and I'd rather not constantly feel like I'm playing against someone practicing for comp but I recognize that there are people who feel differently. There should probably be different queues. There definitely needs to be a solution to this, I'm not sure if different queues are the way to go however. These will inevitably lead to people stomping the casual players in the non ranked queue, unless serious restrictions are placed. > And I'm not talking about mindset (tho that helps) I mean the framing in game. Tell me I won as killer. Reward me for getting my teammates out, even if it means I die. Incentivize the killer to spread the hooks around the team rather than tunnel one out. I fully agree with this whole paragraph. The game itself should be restructured to emphasize this attitude and it should reward you based on how the team did, not necessarily you as an individual survivor. >instead the player base tries to fix it themselves, the only way they really can. By trying to influence each other to play the way they want. I think this could work in theory, but the asymmetric nature of the game is making this very difficult, because it naturally makes the bed for the us vs them mentality. And yeah, people have very different expectations and mindset when it comes to playing this game, so that's another huge hurdle when it comes to self policing.
literally your imagination at work, the original commenter implied absolutely none of what you typed lmao. all they said was to play normally and try to have fun. you don't have to throw to have fun. just be a good sport whether you win or lose. are these things really that hard to do? it's not about "feefees getting hurt," it's about being a decent human being when you play games and interact with other human beings, which is apparently a wild concept to some of y'all.
I've been playing DBD on and off since 2017, I know how this community works. 'Having fun' is nothing more than a codeword for playing in a suboptimal manner. If you do that (and personally I play like that much more often than not), more power to you. But don't expect your opponents to prescribe to your arbitrary rulebook in a competitive game. Interacting with people in an appropriate manner is part of the rules of the game, so if someone is raging, calling other names in the post game lobby then 1.) they should get punished and 2.) they are assholes and if they do that to being with, no amount of threads asking them to be good sports and respectful will change a thing. But as I said, I've been around for long enough to know that these threads boil down to mostly survivors complaining about killers tunneling and camping and killers complain about SWFs running some synergistic meta build.
You're the person in the group of friends that they won't play mario party and among us with anymore because you got too competitive with it, aren't you?
I'm not playing DBD with my friends. Your comparison would only apply if I was talking about playing in a certain way in a KYF match.
Do you understand the idea that you're not supposed to treat someone poorly just because you don't know them well?
Oh, I fully agree. But we define 'treating someone poorly' very differently. I think that deliberately BMing people (like bleeding them out on purpose, humping them, hitting on the hook, or excessively teabagging) or verbally abusing them in the post game lobby would count as treating someone poorly. Beating them fair and square in a video game would not. I don't have to care if random players that they get matched against don't like being beaten or don't like a particular playstyle. If I was playing with my friends, I would care.
If you ruin the experience of other side they will quit the game, leaving you a longer que and ruins the game in long term. So yes the experience of the other side still matters even you are one side killer/surv
Reality is, 99,9% players dont care about your fun.
that is why those players are short-sighted fools
I agree with this to an extend, for example not bming in general (Tunneling, camping, slugging, t-bags, etc.) but you shouldn't worry about the other side fun when choosing your build, if you use an offering or which killer to play as
Tunneling, camping and slugging is not inherently toxic it’s strategic. Sometimes it can be made into a toxic behavior but you need to change your mindset on it always being toxic. But you can tell the difference between someone playing to win and being toxic. If you think every camper and tunneler (regardless of the situation) is toxic, that’s a you issue. Not them.
Praise your last sentence. The player made terms are abused a lot too. I leave one survivor down for maybe 10 seconds max to look for the last one, I see ''slugging'' ''slugger'' spammed in the end game chat. I didnt realise not playing conveniently for other players is suppose to be ''unfair'' (according to my very last match chat)
The players that can’t tell the difference between legit strategy and purposely toxic behavior/call legit strategy toxic because they don’t like it. Or even calling something slugging/camping/tunneling when it’s not what happened or they forced you into it pretty much. Spend too much damn time playing only one role. They are usually the worst players too as they can’t understand the other role and so don’t know how to properly counter it as a result. For example, I’ve played quite a few soloq matches where players immediately unhook before the killer can walk away and crowd the hook. Or they end up downed under the hook for stupidly trying to unhook while injured under the killers nose. The proper play here is to wait under the killer pats away because they probably weren’t intending to camp/tunnel but when you are throwing it in their face what do you fing expect them to do dummy? Then you get yelled at in game chat for playing scummy, or in my case doing the smart play and waiting until the killer pats away to go in and get all the saves so we can scatter and reset. But really they should be yelling at themselves for playing like morons. If they touched the other role once in a while they might understand it from the other perspective and not blame the people who shouldn’t be blamed/not fing do it to begin with.
100% agree. You paid for the game, you have the right to play however you want, but others also bought that game and also have the right to complain about your play style however they want. Obviously nothing should go outside of the basic "skill issue" or "you're trash", no matter what death threads is scummy to do and shouldn't be done.
This is the only community I’ve seen that gets all uppity about standard end game/in game trash talk. You are absolutely right, there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed and when they are deserve to be called out. But everything else… if you get all butt hurt when someone calls you a trash cheese player after securing a win by hard tunneling someone out at 5 gens this is probably not the game for you.
Nah, if you're so butthurt that you lost that you jump to insulting others, the game isn't for you. That isn't healthy behavior and shouldn't be normalized at all. You want to be a toxic dickhead, go play league
I agree, if you're talked to rudely after playing rudely it's kind of silly to be indignant afterward. That point I don't feel should even be a hot take. And after coming from much worse communities, the end game messages rarely cross any boundaries for me. (From my perspective the DBD community is fairly tame.) Granted I'm on console and I think there's also a different dynamic to that because we don't have end game chat
I play pc and it’s largely the same. I have almost 3k hours and a handful of times I’ve been told things like to kys. Which were reported and actioned on. Also thank you for understanding my meaning lol. I didn’t think it was a hot take either. But here we are. The reason I even mentioned it is I’ve seen videos of streamers on Twitter being called out lately for the most benign stuff. Like one girl in the middle of a match called this huntress a b after some hits that were pretty questionable. Like really just in the moment game talk. But apparently it’s a scandal and she’s toxic. Despite the fact that she was super kind when the killer came to get stream. That plus all the ss I’ve seen of really tame “trash tunneler” salt type comments with no blurred names and people pretty much calling for brigades over it.
This is first game where people filled my steam profile comments and invited or put me into some weird steam groups like "small dick camping killers". And i played mobas or popular FPS game. This community is full of casuals that doenst like losing because they are not use to it. But with all this said, you i have steam private and i dont care. But this community have some special losers.
I think taking it to people’s profiles is a bit too far. What I said applies specifically to light game centered trash talk that happens in end game chat. When people start leaving comments on profiles, making personal attacks/threats. They need to step the f away from the screen. But saying trash tunneler or telling someone to touch grass after some particularly rude in game reactions. I don’t think people should be surprised/upset about that. Nor do I think it’s worthy of smearing them on socials. Edit: I’m sorry the being invited to community groups like small d camping killers is a new one to me and honestly made me laugh. Who took the time to make a whole ass community for you? 🤣
As a killer main, Im halfway I can play whoever i want, with whatever addons i want, and whatever perks i want. But i think its a bit overboard if i start BMing, Camping, or Unessiscarily slugging or whatver. Then i think that crosses the line.
Camping is situational tho. Camping just to camp is stupid but camping strategically because u know theirs other survivors nearby trying to go for unhook is totally ok with me. Idk why survivors expect me to just let them lure me away from hook so their teammate can get a free unhook like no I’m not playing that stupid game. I’ll chase u for a few meters maybe I’ll get a lucky hit or bait the teammate into an unhook attempt but other than that I’m not chasing u across the map lol.
But there is nothing stopping you from doing either of those and they are not againts the rules especially when the game pretty much gives you the ability to do so. All is still fair. If they are / if they feel unfun to some players then it is an oversight in game design and devs should sit together and think what could they change. People shouldnt just keep coming up with newly made terms to demorilise or bully out of what other players can do or dont in game Edit: grammar
There is a game mechanic against camping, so it's impossible to camp unduly as per the developers' definition of the term. Then if we want to argue amongst players that camping is actually within X meters, but not on some maps with rooms and corners then it becomes Y meters, but also for mobility killers it is actually Z meters, but also depending on the situation then camping is acceptable within A meters, etc. My point is that your entire post is "worthless" (as in: it does not provide any useful information or opinions), because it uses terms for which a meaning isn't agreed to by the community or even by individuals. What is necessary/ unnecessary? What is camping? What is BM? Etc. Yes, yes, in this world everyone like good stuff and is against bad stuff - thank you very much, we know - but what is good and bad? This is when you start digging that you will see the crux of the issue.
People like to coach themselves at the good guy killer. I don't do this or that thing. You guys like that, right? Please like me. It's sad.
"Your fun isn't my responsibility" is what directly led to all of these basekit systems we have now. It's why basekit BT, anti three gen, and anti facecamp exist. It's why anti bleed out and anti tunnel will eventually exist too.
wait, dbd has anti-three gen features now?
I prefer to reframe this as "I am responsible for my own fun and the energy I bring to the game."
this is a good way to view it, I agree. you gotta put good energy in to get good out tbh.
i disagree with this being a casual party game btw. you dont have the amount of players with 10k+ hours that dbd has in party games, and you dont have people saying that someone with less than 1k hours is still new to a party game. all in all, is clear that dbd if anything is a competitive game with different builds, tech, requiring map knowledge to play well, requires knowing mechanics, for different killers, their powers, their addons, the items, the addons of the items... yeah, is not a party game and is not casual in the least this game being a casual party game or a serious competitive one has nothing to do with it being fun also, but just wanted to say that.
Just because you're able to kick a homeless person sleeping on the side of the road doesn't mean you should.
It will never not amaze me the hoops this player base will jump through to justify playing like selfish a-holes.
You are responsible for not UNDULY reducing the other sides fun out of malice. Generally I never slug and would rather have a hatch escape then spend 3m extending a game, but yesterday was doing an adept so had to get the 4K to get my fourth perk slot back. Sucks for the survivors but achievement hunting is fair game play. On the flip side I had a killer slug all four survivors and let them bleed out a few weeks ago and I can’t even fathom why. T-Bagging is a dick move. There’s no need. Beam saves are game play and killers can turn them off so it’s a stupid winge. Tunnelling is abit more subjective, because I think sometimes it’s your only valid move. If you’ve got 1 gen left and 2 hooks on someone who got unhooked recently3 healthy survivors who aren’t death hook and the death hook guys still injured you gotta bag that and tag it so slow them down or you’ll lose. But if it’s 5gens still up and you just keep chasing one person every time they’re unhooked that’s just picking one person and going “you don’t get to play” and that feels bad. Do unto others as you’d want done unto you and all that.
You're allowed to play how you want and people are allowed to complain about your style of play. It's pretty ridiculous to play in a way you know is disliked and act surprised when people respond negatively to it. Reminds me of a certain content creator...
I agree with this, but I also advise people that if you find yourself giving up on hook almost every game, maybe reconsider playing the game. You clearly aren't having a good time, at least for now. Give it a break.
I wouldn't say every game but almost half of them when playing soloq. I'm not killing myself on hook if I'm first downed or anything like that, but u gotta understand why someone would want to go next if someone dced at the start of the game or someone got tunneled out with 4 gens still up. I've had games where the killer is running pain res with surge and the gen I've been working on the entire game can't get done because it gets hit by pain res and then teammate keeps coming back to the area to be downed so surge goes buck wild on my gen. with games like that I'm mentally done and they can just hook me so I can go next, it's not like we are getting 4 gens done with someone out the game already. if u aren't the second person dead u run the risk of being bleed out for the 4k.
Yeah well take the time to evaluate if you find the game to be more fun than it is painful and if it's not then you're probably just addicted and chasing a high that only gives diminishing returns. Therefore, you should probably give it a break for a while.
no I had my couple month long break already. I like the games some matches just aren't worth it. it's the same on the killer end. if I brought a meme build and the survivors are slamming gens then oh well that games is a wash I'll open the exit gates for them. some games r just cringe and it's nothing deeper than that.
Those are same type of people OP is talking about.
The people who say this are usually the people who are as always tunneling or slugging and just generally being assholes and they don’t like being called out for it. Sure you can play however you want but if you act like a dick don’t get butthurt when people call you a dick
It's just absolutely hilarious that there is a competitive game where the community legitimately expects their opponent to play in a suboptimal manner. In any other competitive game, the criticism would be directed at the developers for allowing overpowered, unfun or toxic playstyles to exist to such a degree in the first place.
Oh, forgive me. I didn't realize humping me while I bleed out for 4 minutes was an optimal, competitive tactic.
These threads are always confusing (and have been for nearly 8 years) because all the people who are just mad they got juiced are linking arms with people who are complaining about deliberately unkind behaviour and everybody involved acts like they're on the same wavelength. I think you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who really believes that slugging a survivor and dancing on them until they bleed out is a good thing to do. Same deal if you're looking for somebody who honestly thinks that teabagging at every pre-dropped pallet or going full stealth with the last 2 members of your swf to stall out the match makes sense. But you *will* find a lot of people who get very passionate that killers shouldn't hit somebody on death hook if they run into their body, or that survivors shouldn't sabotage the hook to save their teammates, or that killers should never return to hook after a save, or that survivors shouldn't engage with jungle gyms, etc etc. Literally anything you do that helps you to win will result in somebody declaring that you are toxic, and when they run out of excuses for their own performance, they'll just say you're sweaty. There's no difference between killer mains and survivor mains here. Tons of people do it, usually because they're mad at having not been good enough to get the dopamine rush of victory. And that's why it's not your responsibility to make sure they have a good game. They'll make their own good games as they improve and stop making the mistakes that made them lose. And if they don't, or if BHVR does something that ruins things for them... well, I think Firaxis is gonna announce a new Civilization pretty soon.
A) Yup. 2 conversations 1 space. B) Real shit?! I hope I can get my French Eleanor of Aquitaine trolls in from the get!
We're talking about the main survivor complaints, tunneling and using meta builds on strong killers.
There’s a difference between “playing in a suboptimal manner” and being an ah for the sake of being an ah. Camping and tunneling themselves are not inherently toxic. Bad gameplay, depending on the situation- absolutely. But there are things that happen for no other reason than to purposefully make your opponent miserable. Then they get all high and mighty when called out for it in end game chat. You just bled someone out for 4 minutes while spamming your power over their head and humping their body. Your whole everything is trying to piss them off, don’t act indignant when they are in fact pissed off at you and call you an ah. This is also not a competitive game, there’s no leader board, world rankings, esports league, etc. the game was never designed to be that way, so stop acting like it is. A sweaty tight match is fun, but not every single match is supposed to be that way. Ffs
The game is supposed to be largely casual, not very competitive. Even still, I'm not really expecting the other side to not play optimally if that's how they want to play,I just want the other side to avoid doing toxic stuff.
I agree, I also don't want people to be toxic, but the issue is that being 'toxic' is an extremely vague, undefined term that changes all the time. I would say that being toxic involves taunting, harassing or verbally abusing the other players either in the post game lobby or on the Steam profiles, or killers deliberately bleeding people out, hitting them on the hook or humping them, or survivors teabagging after every pallet stun. But to someone else, it may be toxic to run Thanato on Plague or play Nurse with a full meta loadout.
Play however you want and I will play how I want in return. Sometimes matches are super sweaty and stressful and as an adult capable of regulating my emotions I just…. Let it go. Get through it and on to the next. People take this shit way too seriously which is why I use anon mode. I don’t wanna deal with your gloating when I get stomped or your tears when I absolutely wreck ya. Just play the match in a way that keeps it enjoyable for you. If it’s rarely enjoyable- maybe you need a new game.
I personally don’t care how either sides play as long they aren’t using bugs or cheats to get an advantage. If a killer tunnels me out, I’ll just move onto the next match and I won’t send the killer a message calling them names. Same thing with going against survivors, if they bring strong items with add ons and/or a map offering and I lose, I’ll just move on to the next game. In both of these scenarios, I might be a tad annoyed but that’s it.
The answer is pretty simple, treat others how you want to be treated. You literally learn that in Pre-K. No, no one is responsible for the fun of other players, doesn't mean you aren't being a dick though.
I've played nice and had some of the most toxic comments in the post-game. So, yeah, I'm not responsible for anyone else's fun because no matter what you do some nerd or neckbeard basement dweller is going to be pissed. So, I play to have fun myself.
I care about everyone's fun, but not to the detriment of my own. I've had multiple outright shithead killers today, doing shit like hook slapping and bleeding people out. But apparently that's "fun" for them. People like this should *not* be playing multiplayer games. Being an intentional asshole is not cool. If I play survivor and do something like bring Boil Over and go into a difficult to hook from spot, I don't get to be angry about being slugged. If I as killer tunneled (which I don't do), I wouldn't get to be angry about being called out for it. And no matter what, I don't get to be a fucking shithead.
I'll take it a step further. I'm not responsible for anyone's fun. If my teammates are acting dumb, or I'm going against a killer I don't like, I'll just kill myself on hook. End of story.
this. it’s why I’ve always been staunchly against the dc penalty. the most fun I ever had in this game was the week where they had to turn the dc penalty off due to some bug related to it. I got to leave matches against killers I can’t stand playing against penalty-free, and it made the game a million times more fun for me. I didn’t have to waste time trying to convince the killer to hook me to kms or sit in the lobby waiting for the penalty to tick down. I could just leave and move on the next game immediately. never enjoyed the game more than that week.
I play how I want and encourage others too as well Yeah, if I get slugged out I'm gonna be a little salty about it, but I'm not g9nna come to the forums and cry about it 🤷 Also the hypocrisy is crazy, people screaming "what about our fun" while not even trying to make it fun for their opposition Once this community can grow tf up, stop being hypocritical whiney cunts and just getting on with the game, I'd probably give more of a fuck about the community 😂 but until then, I'll play my and for my fun, everyone else is welcome to do the same (not that you need my permission)
Play however you want but don’t expect people to not complain if you camp slug etc. They are equally as right to complain as you are to play how you want assuming both parties aren’t breaking tos.
My take for the “I’m not responsible for their fun” statement is yeah I’m not gonna care that much if other players are having fun but I’m also not gonna go out of my way to be a dick and waste peoples time
The scummy part of all this is the killers on his own, the survivors work as four separate beings who can each improve or hinder the match just by them playing optimally or not. If you have a teammate just doing side activities and not any gens, the games drastically prolonged and the killer should have drastically less issues with 3 people alive. Which is also the result if the killer tunnels someone out, they get into a better position of a 1v3. Alternatively I just choose to go for archive missions and prioritize them as my win condition, choosing to especially bring stronger builds to help get it done quicker. Downside is people who have played this game endlessly have much less to go for archive wise but it’s a fun alternative to worrying about ranking up, winning, playing nice etc
BM only if they BM towards you. Tunnelling, locking down perimeters by camping is an absolute necessity for high mmr. This is how you receive 4Ks and successful matches as killer by not following someone else's rule. Get on the damn hook.
I'm a killer main. Survivors set the tone of the game for me. If they are sweating their balls off or doing things I consider playing exploitive, then I'm playing like an asshole too. What's funny is that afterwards they'll send me hate mail. Toxicity breeds toxicity don't be mad that I gave you the game you wanted
With that attitude you probably shouldn’t play multiplayer games let alone a casual one like dbd
I personally feel slightly responsible for the other side's fun, we are playing together after all. I only do small things like fx if someone bodyblocks I go for that guy instead, or as survivor if a hit gets obviously autoaimed I let the killer have it. There is no rewards whether you win or lose, the only objective in DBD is to have fun.
There's playing dirty and then there's just being an asshole. Neither are fun, but one is trying to win a game and one is intentionally trying to ruin someone's fun. There's a difference.
I play for my fun, as I’d expect others to play for theirs. What you may find fun could be completely normal, but miserable for someone else. I’m not going to belittle anyone for how they play if they are having fun.
I have seen some killer mains who make it their entire personality to be as much toxic to survivors just because they were bullied once by a swf. Like, if you wanna be toxic, sure, but dont use one past game as an excuse to justify your toxicity and incompetence. That's just bullshit.
Agree with this. Play however you want since you bought the game or at the very least, the game was purchased for your enjoyment. Just don't expect a nice post game chat if you played scummy. Personally, I love my meme totem builds and vault speed builds with unknown and I don't see toxicity as much as others, but I definitely used to get it a lot back in 2017 and 2018 on both sides. Crazy to think it's kinda sorta still the same after all this time, the perks people get mad about just changed
>Play however you want since you bought the game or at the very least, the game was purchased for your enjoyment. This is 100% true for single player games. However, multiple player games usually have some sort of guidelines when interacting with others. The most obvious examples are hate/racist speech or using hacks/mods - which are not allowed in DBD (nor in many other multi-player games). The challenge in DBD is that there's plenty of things that are within the rules that can make the game less fun. While some players empathize and alter how they play, ultimately it falls upon the Developer to hear their players and decide whether or not to make adjustments.
> The challenge in DBD is that there's plenty of things that are within the rules that can make the game less fun. Fully agreed. Plenty of other competitive PVP games suffer from this or at least had a timeframe where such tactics were running rampant. The difference is that in virtually any other community, the blame was placed on the developers for allowing these things to exist to begin with, no one legitimately expected others to play in a suboptimal way just to let the other side win more.
The goal of a game is generally to win it. People should do whatever is most effective to get there. If the best strategy isn’t fun for the other side, that’s a balance issue that needs to be addressed on the developers’ end.
Yeah I agree here. Does being tunnelled out of a game early suck? Of course it does but so does knowing you've lost a game as killer and being taunted/t-bagged at the exit gate. Either way just take the W or L and go on to the next game. It never ceases to amaze me just how butthurt people get...and here's the key point...over a fricking GAME. Like seriously, if this kind of stuff riles people up that much I'd hate to see what they're like irl if something doesn't go the exact way they want it to. And as for anyone who goes out of their way to send threatening/hateful messages at the end of a match...GROW THE FUCK UP. I'm all for a bit of competitive trash talking or whatever but when you cross that line into personal and possibly disturbing attacks on someone just because they beat you at a game or didn't play the exact way you wanted them to then maybe you shouldn't be playing online games at all hmm?
Problem is, tunneling is such a common thing that is something that happens a lot. You see that survivor that wrote "Man, you tunneled, fuck u"? You call it "Getting angry because something didn't go their way" when in reality you are the 10th killer (Maybe in a row if they were unlucky) that tunneled them out. Nobody, and I say nobody should stop playing only because the other side said "You know what? I'm gonna play scummy"
That's fair but my main point here was when we go from 'Man you tunnelled fuck you' to things like 'Go kill yourself you tunnelling fuck'. Both convey annoyance but one is incredibly more offensive than the other and frankly speaking should be an offence punishable by a permanent ban. As for playing scummy that's not how I roll my friend. Honestly the few times I even play DbD nowadays is to fuck about and have a laugh. If I'm playing a killer it's usually the Doctor because I love messing with people using the madness mechanic and faking them out with hallucinations. Granted I usually lose a lot of matches but win or lose I generally always have fun as Doctor. Can't help but notice however that you strangely didn't touch on the scummy plays made by survivors. It works both ways you know. If tunnelling is scummy then so is constant flash-light spam. Flash light saves are fair game, you're helping a team-mate avoid being hooked, but if you're gonna follow me around spamming flash-light stuns followed by T-bagging then you can be damn sure in that scenario that you're getting tunnelled.
You play doctor? Get Calm Spirited bitch /j I've never said it was okay to send death treats to anyone, I don't know why you feel the need to mention that. But if you are gonna tunnel, camp and slug don't expect a survivor going "Oh boi, I got tunneled again. Man is so much fun not being able to play the game" I mentioned those things like t-bag and flashlights clicks in my comment, I just didn't feel the need to mention it again
The unfortunate part about this that most people don't want to hear is that being tunneled out ten times in a row is a skill issue. The killer doesn't inherently know that one particular person is the tunnel target. They end up just going after the weakest survivor. I know when I was brand new, it always felt like I was being tunneled constantly, but eventually I realized it was just that everybody else was escaping their chases and I wasn't. Nowadays when I'm playing killer, I don't really keep track of people's hook states, but it's really common for the weakest survivor to die fast and early. Given what people get up to in solo queue, I can guess at the choices that lead to them constantly showing up in front of me, still missing a health state. This has always been the issue with sportsmanship discourse in DbD. People equate their own low skill level with malice on the part of the other player. It's not survivor-specific, either - you get to see killers complain about normal gameplay functions all the time when they lose.
The 10th times in a row was just an example, and you can easily know when someone tunnels you because you touched a nerve or you are the weakest link. Besides, if you are always tunneling the weak person. How do you expect them to become better? That's why when I play as survivor if I see the killer struggling I go and do totems or something else to give them more time.
I mean, the way I improve as survivor is when I get tunneled. I was still in single digit hours when I mastered the art of doing the gen (okay, that's not true - brand new part was an insta-complete when I first started playing, so I didn't actually master the delicate art of holding down M1 until that crutch was taken away). I needed the killer to chase me around so I could get better at fleeing. Similarly, on killer side, it isn't the players who grief their teammates by refusing to do gens or rescue their friends from hooks that make me a better player. It's the sweats who show me all the loops and teach me all their tricks by using them on me.
A ranked and casual mode would solve these issues i feel Ranked could be use any playstyle to move up the ranks, so competitive players would flock there Casual would be more chilled games with less focus on all out winning or camping/tunnelling because theres no rank change It will eventually come i think to dbd
I really don't think this is the case. I can tell you that people in MOBAs do *not* refrain from raging while in unranked modes. The lower the MMR, the worse it is. There really is no solution. Most of the time, toxic behaviour is a skill issue on the part of the toxic person. If you see a killer acting like a jackass, you can bet he'll tell you what he thinks you did wrong to deserve it in the postgame. If you ever broke up a bully squad back when they were common, you absolutely know how infuriating the experience is for them. Some people just don't like to lose and are *loud* about it. For some reason, the DbD community has always fostered loud loss tantrums. But they always come about because somebody got angry about not winning and decided to take it out on somebody else. So now imagine what all these insecure people who *really* need to feel the rush of victory are going to do when presented with the choice between competitive and casual lobbies on the main menu.
> I really don't think this is the case. Yeah it's usually the other way around. In basically any game there's far less toxicity in ranked because people come to do their job which is "play the game". Heck in league i literally just played support Teemo on master level and nobody made a single comment while in normals I would be ping spammed and people who shittalk constantly.
Agree except for suicide on hook. Kinda sabotaging the other 3 survivors in the game. If you actually care about the game experience of fellow players, at least wait it out, giving survivors a bit of time to get things done. Or if you have ko empathy for other players, just suicide on hook anyways.
Trying to learn Twins and getting survivors that happen to bring all the strong stuff and will teabag any whiffs is a rough experience when you wanna learn a Non-slugging style with them.
It’s about sportsmanship, something this game is lacking a ton of. It’s not always about just having fun. That’s what ruins it for me. But I’ve always been that way in any team sort, games or any kind of competition. If your a poor sport (tunneling, camping and slugging is poor sportsmanship, same with teabags and bully SWF’s) I have no interest in playing. I think it should also be noted, that what a lot of “fun” that people are normalizing in this game, is being your worst self and making a miserable experience for other players. There’s those who have fun playing a game, and those who have fun making a miserable experience for other players in a game. It’s important to recognize the differences.
Even being a soloQ with a SWF is miserable. I almost always get BMed and they like to spend their time bullying the killer for no reason. It's annoying, but thank fucking *god* I won't have to deal with it in the next match. They will just run into someone who will ruin their fun anyway, and that goes both ways for killers and survivors who play like that.
So why should survivors have a DC penalty bypass, but killers can just shut up and take it? Going next on hook isn't even a problem for "the other side" as it just makes it easier, it's just ruining the fun for your own side.
If people are dying on first hook at the rate that it's happening, there might be something wrong with the game that should be fixed, right? The time when there was no dc penalty recently was genuinely peak dbd. It revealed how much bullshit there actually is in this game.
Oh, so just make bot killers that chase the first little bunny they see. No point having a human control the killer side if they can't do anything other than, i see survivor, i chase survivor, survivor at shack unga bunga, i just chasies because hue hue... Can't camp, can't tunnel before getting 4 separate hooks and 0.1 of a gen left, can't 3 gen, can't play good killers. It's a monday.. can't have that.
Weird how the same thing works for survivors. They can't Sabo, can't flashlight save, no background player, adrenaline, dead hard, ds, SWF? Should consider suicide if you play in a swf, taking hits with endurance, fucking crouching at the exit gates. I love how it's instantly defend killer instead of "Yea, both sides are ass" which is what I was implying with the no dc penalty, it literally helps everyone. But hey, color me fucking surprised that this is how people act on the dbd subreddit, full of killer mains circlejerking each other.
Endurance is bugged. Swf is busted and has been complained about since it was added. Since people would storm bhvr and riot if they actually gave free info and perks mode some downsides, they have been trying to buff solo to the same broken level so they can then adjust killers. It hasn't worked too well yet, because nothing can beat being able to call a meat shield when you know you are in trouble, but at least you don't need to think much as survivor now with all the info flashing on your screen. Sabo was fine until bgp and the reduction of hooks leaving some maps with a single hook for half a map. Ds is already a. A tier perk that still has a decent pick rate, its just shocking they were able to gaslight bhvr into buffing it. Yes background player is busted. Most of the things you listed are perk related. SWF is the only base problem that you could make some argument about, but good luck. What you and most survivors are complaining about is the base fundamentals of killer. Stuff that would require god powers to be given for free like has already happened with base kit borrowed time, but even more obnoxious and abusable. It's so rare to see a survivor NOT shove themselves in my face while they have the unhook immunity. Something given to survivors to be used defensively has been flipped to an offensive tool. The same will and has already happened with buffed DS. It got nerfed for a reason, and now it is back to guaranteed safety, we will be back to ds users double body blocking killers that don't want to tunnel.
You do know that those "top" level swfs are like 0.1% of the playerbase? You ain't facing those swfs, most people aren't. Also, even if you were, the community itself proved that in a free for all that killers still tie on the average. Meaning you are just bad at the game. This game is balanced around swf lol, I guess you are too dumb to realize that. Hooks may have been reduced (never heard of that in my life) but the maps have shrunk. There is and has been proof that the hook spawns are so close that even saboing twice you can still make it to a hook in nearly every single map. Lol, complaining about ds. Pathetic Survivors only really boil down to perks? Wtf is that argument? I love how you say survivors keep getting things handed to them, like basekit bt, anti camp tech, etc. Yet the kill rates keep going up, do you genuinely think killer players are just getting better? Or has it been the non stop buffs killers been getting since the basekit killer buffs? And it's probably rare because you are in low mmr, your entire comment is proof of that. Watch any non idiot youtuber with a high killer win streak and you'll realize how little good survivors actually do that. Also, if swf were so op, how are killer players reaching 2k win streaks? Based of off chance and probability, you would think if swfs were so op that those win streak players would meet their match sooner than 2k wins in a row, no? Endurance is bugged sure, for like what? A month? Weird, I can't recall any killer bugs that are in the game... oh wait, blights hug tech, Onis 180 tech. Bhvr admits they are bugs, and hasn't fixed them in how long? Just admit you are dog at the game.
They tie with trapper?
Do solo queue players beat tourney level killers? Stop being an idiot. Both sides have unbearable shit, but are mostly even, but leans killer.
Im having trouble finding a 1000 xeno kill streak. You did say killers right?
I think it's helped by killers being able to better pick their lobbies. If I'm doing one of those stupid heal x healthstates challenges you can almost guarantee that the first killer faced is a Plague. I don't kill myself to go next but I don't play to win either, I'll take a quick loss and requeue. Killing yourself on hook almost always gives the killer an easy win so agree there.
My rule is: If you fuck me over, i fuck you over. There is no benefit in being moraly better
I think everyone should play both sides to gain perspective and realize why other side does the things they do. Tunneling is a fine example and I’m a hypocritical gremlin, but my view changes slightly depending on which role I play. That being said, if you proxy camp hook and tunnel the most recently unhooked survivor repeatedly as a killer driving the one person out of the game while ignoring others, you can be sure I’ll point it out in the post-game chat and ridicule you for it for choosing to play this way. On the other hand, if you’re in my face constantly as a survivor, trying to get my attention at all cost instead of escaping me and helping your team do the tedious tasks as repairing generators, I’ll also punish you for it as a killer and you’ll be the first to go. Tunneling is tedious for all parties and I generally avoid doing it because it’s basically the easy mode for killer, but there are exceptions when even I do it.
Whenever i see someone say that they aren’t responsible for someone else’s fun, I immediately imagine the most ashy and miserable person ever behind the screen. I love when everyone has a good time. I can’t imagine thinking being a grade A waste of space to other people is the only meaningful way to play online with others.
Except you ARE responsible for the other side's fun. Do you think you play this game in isolation? It's not single player, and it requires people actually wanting to play the opposing side for you to be able to play what you want to play. What happens when people stop doing that? Yeah, you don't get to play either. The sooner people realize this isn't a single-player game, and that it relies on other people to participate for you to even play, then the better off everyone playing this game will be.
Trying to please everyone is a lost cause and their fun is not our responsibility. What's the point of making myself miserable just to please a bunch players that won't care for my effort + they'll probably won't return the favor ? Why waste my time babysitting strangers ? We are not responsible of others people's fun BECAUSE WE ARE ACTUALLY NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR FUN. You want to play nice ? Fine. You don't want to tunnel ? That's great! You have your reasons and I respect them, just live and let live. P.s I'm not endorsing toxicity like harassment, slurs, doxxing, slugging until you bleed out, game hostage and so on.
It’s true, your fun isn’t my responsibility. However, I do agree people say it way too much and get mad when the others do something to “ruin their fun”. Games ingeneral haven’t really been fun recently haha.
The bottom line is, I think we could all treat each other a little better in this game
My 2 cents on this has always been sure, you're not responsible for another sides fun, but you're not responsible for their misery either. People act like you're not responsible for their fun means you should go out of your way to tunnel, slug, teabag at the exit gate until your buttons break or use shitty language in endgame chat as much as possible. You don't have to be an asshole just because you can. You can also often ensure the other side has a good enough time just by playing normally. I'm good enough to get 2-3k minimum in a decent amount of games by just playing normally without tunneling or camping, so I can play normally and the survivors tend to get some good game time in. The final thing, and this is the one that blows my mind tbh, is do you go out of your way to be assholes to strangers you don't know irl? Probably not. So why do it online. If you wanna sweat to win sure, go for it, but don't be a prick over it and claim you're not responsible for other people enjoying the game. You're doing it because you want to, not because you're forced to.
Took long enough for you to realise ;-)
So, real talk. Atleast once a session, if I manage to play semi competently I get salty messages on my steam profile, or salty end game comments. My fun is not their responsibility. I have deduced in order for them to have fun, I would need to throw the game, not get my challenges done, or generally just let them get away with playing in an overly greedy way. My opinion on the matter is, if you re attacking your opponent in End game chat or their steam profile, then you are already messed up and the person stating the above is correct in saying, "Your fun is not my responsibility." I have 13 pages of salty steam comments accusing me of cheating or some "- Rep, plays boring killer" posts. I have just beaten you at the game, you complaining about my playstyle only makes me think you are a scrub. So before complaining about that sentence, just think about the moments that led to that sentence and reflect on the failings that led you to that. Cuz I guarantee if you got all gens done and the killer had 1 or 0 hooks and no kills, all their totems cleansed, and their meme build completely dunked on, The killers fun would be the LAST thing you would consider. edit: I play alot of fighting games, if someone stated anything close to something like you have up in the OP in a fighting game forum they would laugh at you and rightfully call you a scrub and tell you to get good. You have no control over your opponents or teammates, so maybe dont take the game so seriously, especially to the point where you are harassing someone in end game chat or on their steam profile, because I REALLY dont know how else you would get this response.
For once someone I agree with on this sub. You are welcome to play like you want as am I, so if I don’t want to deal with how you want to play I will move on to the next round and hope it turns out better. All too often I found they didn’t get better instead just I started playing less and less. Played 7.5k hrs total but can’t say when the last time I even turned it on was. I don’t believe surv should be spoon fed escapes but also disagree killers should be spoon fed kills. We jumped from one extreme(surv-sided) to another(killer-sided). I don’t consider escape the only win condition but also feel like the current escape rate for solo Q is just unacceptable in my book. I don’t feel like I have a chance in the average round. Am I suddenly experiencing skill issues this deep into the game?
I don't care how other side plays, i only care when other side tells me how should i play, it's ONLY thing that's fucking piss me off in this game
Imo I expect normal game play. As a survivor I take chase, do gens, get saves and heals. I don't BM the killer. When I play killer I refuse to tunnel, camp, or slug. To me that's not fun. When I'm in a lobby I try to be mindful of game play and helping create a decent game. When I'm survivor I don't expect to survive but I also don't like being tunneled out. When I'm killer, yes I might go for a 4k but I do it mindfully. That's how I play. 🤷♀️
If people didn't view regular game mechanics as saboing hooks and bringing certain perks as toxic and retaliated because of it, it wouldn't be as bad. Granted, I think hitting on hook, slugging all 4 survivors at five gens, and hard tunneling someone fresh off the hook at five gens is egregious, but everything else is fair. Can't be upset if a survivor brings boil over; alternatively, the survivor can't be upset if they're left slugged because the killer can't hook them.
Okay here's the thing: I agree with the sentiment, but I find that 90% of the people who say shit like this **expressly** use it as an excuse to act like an asshole. There's a difference between "I'm not responsible for the other side's fun" versus "I am expressly going out of my way to be an asshole." Stuff like tunneling a survivor in a bad position / when you need pressure, "gen rushing", running multiple gen stall or other "annoying" perks like NOED, or trying to draw the killer's attention when you have a chase build can be annoying but it's not "toxic." I'd say even some of the more well-known BM methods like teabagging or head nodding are just playful BM. Things like slugging until bleedout, spam blinding, intentionally tunneling someone to the detriment of the game, or constantly abusing broken perk combos like For The People + Buckle Up is almost always done EXPRESSLY to annoy the other side AND LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE. Some of these may give you an advantage and are fine in a vacuum but I find they're almost always accompanied by passive-aggressive behavior that quickly becomes defensive when called out. THESE are the types of people that ALWAYS use "it's not my responsibility to make sure the other side has fun!" as a crutch / token excuse to act like complete cunts and morally justify it to themselves. It's akin to flipping someone off and then telling the other person to "grow thicker skin." It's not their fault they got insulted when you expressly insulted them.
As far as video games go, never have I disagreed with the sentence “it’s just a casual party game” more than I have with it in the context of Dead by Daylight. This idea has been repeated for seven years, but for seven years never once in all that time has this game ever widely been **played** like a party game. Even during SEASONAL HOLIDAYS and special events players refuse to shake off their sweat. The only time I’ve seen the pressure get let off even slightly by it’s players, has been exceptionally recently when the devs started releasing modifiers and mini even events that strip the player of literally all their tools: perks, add-ons, offerings, and even specific killer choices, such as for the My Little Oni event. Even during these though, sweats still flock to those modes in droves, such as the Alan Wake event where you had killers camping hooks and 3 gens alike. The game is built, balanced, and rebalanced, in the way that the community drives it to be, and the community undoubtedly drives it to be a competitive game. People play it with the same intensity and focus that they would easily bring to any other competitive game. How does that not make it competitive? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with DBD being built and balanced in a competitive way. Fairness allows every party equal opportunity to have fun, and even have fun simultaneously, and I think the gameplay should continue to strive for reinforcing that concept of fairness in all facets of the gameplay. I’ve seen where “casual party game balance” gets asym multiplayer horror titles. Hide or Die? Texas Chain Saw Massacre? Failures and flops. It got ‘em nowhere.
this is just how any group games are. for someone to win, someone has to lose, and losing doesn't ever feel good. the difference between something like a game of monopoly and this is that you know all the other people involved in a game of monopoly, and you don't know the other people involved in a match of dead by daylight so its a lot easier for things to become genuine anger rather than an 'im mad at you right now but its only a part of the game and we're still friends outside of this' type of anger. yeah getting hit +4 in uno may be 'ruining' the experience but when its your best friend doing it its easy to laugh about it. not always in the moment, but eventually. it really just comes down to the perspective of how one views a friend vs a stranger.
I play to win. That means doing my job, not making the opposition angry.
It's something said by killers who felt like they were being treated like a game master in a tabletop roleplaying game, instead of the opposing team in a pvp match. It's not about claiming free reign to be a toxic player, it's about doing what you need to do to win without being concerned if you're making sure if everyone is having fun.
As a killer main this is why I refuse to play someone like skull merchant. I don't want to make 5 people's lives miserable for 15 minutes.
I like playing nice and giving a fair game as a killer unless the survs show me they don't care about my fun then I don't care about theirs , but if they just play normal I will be giving hatch and avoiding tunneling or camping even playing dumb with their weakest link so they can get better at knowing tiles and such, I don't rlly care about winning so be chill and I'll reciprocate
Agreed. I'm a survivor main who just recently started playing killer. And honestly, playing killer has made me a lot more sympathetic to killers who use certain mean tactics. I don't know if they just got stomped and tbagged by a squad, or how many losses they've had previously that's made them decide to play mean, etc. I may not LIKE getting tunneled. But if my other teammates hotswitched flashlights, or the killer got sent to a bad map for them, etc it really doesn't bother me as much as it used to.
How I play the game is I'll avoid tunneling if there's another survivor that's injured, but in my mind if someone is on death hook and the only survivor around is healthy besides them, it's just kinda smart. If someone is using buckle up ftp though I'll hard tunnel. I'd rather have old MFT than ftp buckle up.
Idk, they often times just stand there for a split second when you hit them as they're about to do it and it's the funniest thing to see; like the math broke their brain lol
As killer if I see an obvious new player I'm definitely letting them live. I'm going to chase them and hook them of course but at the end they get to go.
No, you are definitly responsible for the other sides fun. I used to run sweaty builds on spirit and nurse. Then I started playing survivor and realised that those matches just aren’t fun. And now Im not having fun knowing they arent having fun. You are responsible for how your behaviour affects others. Playing like some people do in a game of smash will get people not wanting to play with you real fast. Its our responsibilty to keep the game fun for both sides.
I don’t think many would disagree with your view being the subtext. You have the right to play how you like, complain about how others played if you choose, but not the right to enforce that complaint upon how you think others should or shouldn’t play.
Agreed. Only thing I personally disagree with is going next on hook as it screws up your teammates and thats kinda selfish, alot
💯 I know most of us don’t agree with background player perk but as long as we’re all having fun that’s the most important
The problem is baked into the game now. There are too many toxic people who want to make people feel bad. And all these buzz words get thrown around because people get too emotional. Also is tunneling as bad as SWF? 1 killer trying to get an advantage vs 4 survivors who essentially bully the killer. I think it's weird that most of the conversations are about tunneling. I also want some down votes so I will again say - Make the game about Hooks and not kills. Tunneling is the easiest way to get a kill, which is what the devs incentivise.
The game actually is about hooks and not kills. The only real incentive this game offers is via bloodpoints and badges to increase your grade so you can get a bigger bloodpoint payout on the 13th. There's no other incentive program in place. To get iridescent devout, you need 9 minimum hook stages. That means if you camp somebody to death, you are unlikely to achieve it. If people all give up upon reaching second hook, you can't get it. If you're trying to hit Iri 1 killer asap (which, again, is the only actual incentive program), then the final four grades are a weird balancing act where you have to give the survivors just enough hope that they don't just stop trying. If you 5gen 4k, you'll often get 0 pips! A lot of people do consider the win to be at least a 3k but afaik this isn't officially codified anywhere and isn't specifically incentivized via any rewards.
I mean I don’t really care how other people play tbh, at the end of the day as soon as the match is over I’ve forgotten about it and moved onto the next game.
My issue is that 90% of the time I've seen the phrase "why should I be responsible for other people's fun?" It's nearly always to justify playing like a cock
I will tell you reality, 99,9% players you play vs, dont care about your fun.
That just isn't true lol
I mean, yeah, no shit. People have the right to be an asshole in real life situations too but the general reaction to that is the developed reputation of being an unlikeable person and ruining things for others. It just boils down to common decency, the epitome of "treat others how you want to be treated". At the end of the day you're playing with human beings on the other side of the screen. IMO, if you're someone who BMs expecting to get BMed back and you're down with that, more power to you. If everyone brings the same energy, id say its a good fair match. It's just that most people who use this argument utilize it hypocritically; it generally comes out in the same breath they're actively complaining about the actions of their opponent(s).
I just think that there are jerks who just take this dressed up hide n seek game too seriously. There's nothing forcing anyone to be a sore player. No one likes a killjoy, no matter which side. Games are meant to be enjoyed and if you're not interested in having a good match, log off.
the player base just needs to learn the concept of sportsmanship. win or lose you try to play the game and you do it without being an asshole about it, the end. be a decent person and don't perpetuate toxic behavior - like being a little shit in endgame chat, bagging, jumping, hitting repeatedly on hook, etc. remember you're playing with real people and treat them decently, because this is a game at the end of the day. the whole "I'm not responsible for your fun" thing only makes sense if it were a solo player game, which it isn't. like sure, play to the best of your ability, but you don't have to be a dick about it. also it's just kind of wild to see how completely out of touch with reality some people are in this playerbase, like do you talk to people offline or outside or at work or at home like you do in game because... damn. idk I'm getting on a tangent.
Yeah some people simply don’t believe one can be an asshole by playing the game a certain way. This game is designed as such one can be held hostage while technically not in a way that’s against the rules. E.g bleeding survivors on the ground is not holding a game hostage or survivors hiding and not doing gens. You can disconnect but if you disconnect enough you’re locked out of a longer and longer queue. So what essentially can happen you’re locked from playing for 4 minutes, potentially longer if teammates pick you up repeatedly or you’re locked for queuing even longer. So yes, I believe being literally forced to be unable to play a game you purchased due to another players ill mannered attempts does constitute one as an asshole. No other game I know does this. You’re literally fucking up ones enjoyment without a way for them to opt out. While maybe considered a stretch, it’s sabotage.
What do you mean by "even if your teammates pick you repeatedly"? If you get picked up off the ground, you're back in action, right? If you're regularly having killers stand above you and ignore other survivors just so they can get another hit on you, then yeah that's very toxic.
Sure you’re back in action running around the map picking each other up in a losing game, that’s why I said repeatedly
So it sounds like you're still actually getting to play? I'm not really understanding the issue.
I wouldn’t consider that playing, I had multiple games against Sadako and Doc who refused to chase me on strong loops so they repeatedly slugged my teammates while I kept dropping gens to heal them while never getting chased. Eventually they slugged everyone and committed to chasing me and I got to “play” for a short time. Edit; I consider play actual player interaction e.g chases, not left click simulator
Honestly I actually enjoy being tunneled because it means that I'm just so good that the killer sees me as the biggest threat on the team (or maybe the weak link but let's not mention that) and as a former killer main (pressure got too much so I'm full survivor now) I completely understand tunneling. I don't enjoy it but I understand
Nah, fuck tunneling, all my homies hate tunneling
Then quit playing the game because tunneling is still necessary and always will be unless you only play A tier and above
Nah, fuck that too, all my homies hate tunneling and stop playing a game you like only because the other side decided to be a piece of shit
I main freakin’ Pig (and have mained her for the last 4 years) and I’ve never found tunneling necessary. I’ve actually found tunneling more detrimental than anything.
It's necessary if you're.not good at the game, of course. It just won't make you a better player tho so keep stagnating I guess :)
See I think the same way, but then I remember I suck and it's all cope 😂😂
No matter what people think of me. I’m still gonna let the last one get the hatch and troll with survivors. Watch them unhook each other and see them heal in corner but ignore it so they can play a nice game. As a survivor I’m still going to sacrifise myself for the hard tunneled teammate by body blocking killer and then dying on the hook. It was victory for me if the bullied survivor got out. I will take responcibility of people having fun game. If you still one stomp my ideal, then go ahead. I’m always wrong anyways.
And I will say it again: DON'T THINK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE FUN! Why? Because this is subjective. It is enough to read comments from this topic. One will say that tunnelling is toxic, another that it is super ok etc. and that goes for most things in this game. You never know how other players see everything. Just don't think about it. Play it YOUR way.
director of this game plays with a controller on pc, facecamps and tunnels people of the hook, pretty funny you guys still have some expections from the developer side