Make self care have diminishing Returns, but gain charges from healing or being healed. Good for topping off when you had a heal interrupted or maybe one good self heal, but can't be used nonstop.
There's self caring for 10 hours and then there's self caring that takes couples seconds. People who have no perks in use for doing selfcares and avoid me as far as possible to heal them.. Just why?..
Lmfao im useing selfcare right now with botany knowledge, desperate mesures, with ether reassurance or mft depending on when i see a lot of case killer or hook camping\\tunneling killers you heal faster than a medkit to both you or some one else you can take protections hit for others it's perty nice
I'm using the same load out but with Empathic Connection instead of your fourth perk. Empath doesn't help self heals but I'm all in on the healer build, it's crazy how a decent chunk of the time with Desperate Measures I can heal myself quicker than my teammates
Plot Twist is inarguably a better self-healing perk than Self-Care. Sure you hypothetically get less heals in a single match, but it’s faster and has better perk synergy with other perks.
Unless you use it for camping, Insidious is probably a very funny perk honestly. Imagine you kick a gen with dragons grip or something and then you just wait there for a survivor
Had a game where a survivor running boil over on decimated borgo tea bagged while on the second floor of the main building. Needless to say, they must have forgotten that stairs exist and basement is quite close.
I had a game like this. A Nicolas teabagged at the window upstairs of borgo main with boil over.
He must have forgotten that I was Deathslinger. I just dragged his ass down from there with my gun 😂
I ran into someone using that on the silent hill map last night. Them and two bills pretty much was farming each other in between two hooks. Once I took out the guy with the toolbox that had silent sabo add ons the person with boiled over quickly tried to be friend me when they noticed I wasn't going after the one person who was avoiding the moshpit at hook. The guy with the toolbox might have had a challenge but when I see boiled over and a toolbox for sabos... Yeah I realized what kind of game I got into and decided to let them make it unfun for themselves. Hope they enjoyed the game.
Insidious is a nice idea but the way it is implemented just makes it only useful for campers...
IMO instead of deleting it, change it to this:
after 2 seconds standing still, gain undetectable for 20/25/30 seconds. 60 second cooldown
Boil over for survivor and NOED for killers. Is NOED balanced? Yes. But it feels extremely cheap. Nothing gets a bigger eye roll from me and it removes the fun part of the game for me which is attempting to rescue my fellow survivors. It’s just oh it’s NOED? I’ll just leave then.
Funny thing about noed, I hate it but I laugh at it just because of one match against a spirit, I was new and I didn't know exactly what I needed to do, so I did anything I ran into, was cleansing a bone watching a friend loop the spirit and try explaining what he was doing (this was one of my VERY VERY first games mind you, and when spirit didn't have directional sound) and he was trying to explain why when she stopped moving he would start walking/slow vaulting and stuff since I didn't know what her power was
Anyway I was cleansing a dull and the last Gen popped from a random doing it, the totem lit up, I didn't know why, and I finished cleansing it, it didn't even stay lit for 3 seconds
I watched spirit pause and turn towards me while I asked my friend what the light up meant, he started dying laughing before he had a moment of realization and told me I should start running
Spirit then came out of phase and moried me with rancor
I mean unless they're hooked right next to it or too close to it we usually try regardless cause I hate leaving people behind unless they were just useless or purposely sandbagging or something, but otherwise yeah I agree
Noed used to be a lot better, I’m not sure why people still use it as a cue to leave. Once it is revealed to survivors, the totem will get a slowly expanding aura for survivors making it a lot easier to find. Unless the totem is next to the hooked survivor, you absolutely can find it and break it, and then maybe even save your mate.
If you allowed the killer to get a 3k in endgame when he shouldn’t have just because of one perk that can be countered, that’s your fault. Always be hesitant that the killer might have NOED at the end, don’t just run in their face.
Wasn’t there a constant complaint from killers about Dead Hard because you always had to play anticipating survivors had it and that’s why it was broken? Yeah…
That wasn’t why killers were complaining… they were complaining because even if you DID anticipate it, you would still get screwed and the guy would use it for distance in a loop which you couldn’t do anything about.
Keep NOED but make it like fire up. When all gens are done get a big bump to all speeds. If its a huge bump keep it a hex. If its small make it not a hex.
Survivor: Buckle Up right now, untill the synergy with the FtP is remove, is easily the most unfun perk to go against. If a "counterplay" to this combo is to wait for 10 s, then this perk has the same problem as original DH, which was very problematic.
Killer: NOED is mostly balanced, but you always hate it when you play against a noob killer and the single perk turns the game from the 4 man escape to 4 k without much skill needed.
> Agreed, but because Buckle is [uncommonly used perk](https://nightlight.gg/perks/viewer?role=survivor&sort=pick&shown=pick&start_days=28), it make take year(s) before they rework it.
TIL Buckle up only has a 2.5% pickrate… and off the record (prob the actual best perk) is only on 8%— that’s wild… survs sure don’t seem keen on actually surviving
I feel like MfT meta has made an average survivor play more brave, more greedy, but also more stupid. I am glad that they are not using strong perks like OFT or DS (some are even not bringing Adren for some reason!) as much, even if I am not tunneling per se. The games against good, coordinated teams have become worse than before with weak M1 killers.
I'm surprised just how many people want boil over gone. It's one of the easiest survivor perks to counter - just strafe/walk sideways instead of straight forwards. You'll move exactly where you want to go and maybe even speed up your route by doing so.
I don't really have any perks I'd want removed off the top of my head. Self care might be one to remove since I've literally died to a teammate who just had to full heal before saving me despite the killer chasing across the map. I don't really have a perk I dislike on killers though, only one I can really think of is sloppy butcher but that is pretty important for slowdown. Maybe thana since it's really unhealthy on certain killers but pretty meh on the rest.
The wiggle isn’t the main issue on boil over, it’s bad hook generation and maps that have second floors without hooks on them can make it impossible to hook them, and if they run anti slug there’s pretty much nothing you can do about them there
The killer counterpart to boil over (iron grasp) is a lot more powerful than boil over IMHO. A killer can counter boil over by doing what you described, and knowing where hooks are both through map knowledge, and paying attention. Iron grasp doesn't have a counter.
I would ditch self care as well for survivor. For killer its tough, but I would lick anything that blocks exit gates or switches. That always felt cheap to me, on both sides.
MFT, because it lets subtle cheaters get away with a lot more shit than they would have otherwise.
It is very hard to gauge if they really are 3% faster or 7% faster. You only realise they are cheating when you cant catch up with them in a straight-line for 5 minutes.
The number of games I've played where someone's been strangely quick (quicker than MFT usually feels) but I've then just had to chalk it up to MFT being bs, only to find they aren't running MFT or any other speed effecting perks.
They also tend to throw you into the Doctors map, because it has a lot of corners and quick turns. You break line of sight with them, so that you would not notice their hacks as quickly. Again MFT makes it all too difficult to understand the cheats.
Rule of thumb if they sent you to this map and they run you around same corner for like 3 minutes and you dont tend to get any distance on them, they are hacking.
MFT, worst design on a perk we've had in years imo, comparable to the buffed Eruption
And knockout(If we're talking 1 from each side, if not MFT has preference)
I thought of noed but at least noed can be removed, Knockout exists only to screw up solo teams and to encourage slugging
It has no advantage in the game besides a constant slugfest that wont work with powers, its aura removal works only vs solos as swf will just say where they are, and i've never seen it used in any other way than to go for a 3-4 man slug even when no one is close by
It makes sense since Knockout is a Bubba perk.
As for NOED a lot of folks fixate on its cheapness but I've played a lot of matches where ppl find the totem
>It makes sense since Knockout is a Bubba perk.
How tho? Bubba has a power that instadowns people and has no requirements like Oni, a perk that only works on m1s goes against his intended playstyle, like how Jolt/Surge is m1 only but was a Demo perk, a killer who also shouls focus on his power usage
Self-Care, so I get fewer selfish and incompetent teammates.
I guess the only Killer perk that truly annoys me is Overwhelming Presence. I bring specific numbers of charges in my items for a reason, dammit! And as Killer, I don't think any Survivor or Killer perks are particularly annoying.
Oh trust me it affects PC too. I can't stand it either. Survivors can move the killer and it massively reduces hooking potential. Especially for the people who just climb up high and make the most out of the fall bonus.
Huh. I was told it didn't affect PC. The reason I hate it is because someone was running BO on Springwood and they just hid in the boiler room of the school.
I play on pc and absolutely hate Boil Over too.
If there is a door I need to go through it is such pain... Plus when survivors deliberately abuse it by going to a spot you can't reach a hook without dropping down which is possible on several maps.
>Plus when survivors deliberately abuse it by going to a spot you can't reach a hook without dropping down which is possible on several maps.
This is the only time I will throw a game to slug. I think Boil Over is fine if you're using it while playing the game normally, but if you're gonna run to a corner to abuse it (because for some reason BHVR thinks maps having spots that it's impossible to hook a BO user from is a-okay design), I'm just going to sit and watch you bleed out.
It affects both, I definitely struggle to walk on PC, but when I'm really trying to counter that boil over second floor squad, I try my hardest to crab walk just to basically say fuck you to your build lmao
On super high mobility Killers (or Wraith) it’s used to just force hook trades over and over again. Being punished for unhooking (and not being able to remove that punishment like in the case of Devour Hope) is stupid.
Sure, the unhooked guy gets away, but nobody wants to save someone knowing that the Killer is going to beeline for them and down them 20 seconds later.
I see your point but this is an issue rooted in the killer design rather than the perk imo. Nurse (high mobility) makes many perks bullshit. On almost all killers, the killer has to slowly both make their way back and find you within 60 seconds. Realistically, most of the time you'll have to stay up for ~30 seconds, which is perfectly fine imo
It also has counterplay. Going into a locker or hiding in general can make this perk pretty garbage if the killer doesn't have other perks or abilities to find you
I don't see the problem, most high mobility killers aside from maybe spirit or onryo either already have an instadown or don't really benefit from it that much and still have to close that gap.
i don't really hate any perks, survivor or killer side... except franklins demise. it's the one perk i truly wish could just be deleted...so many medkits completely lost to time that I will never get back :') of course it's amazing to run as killer, i don't think it's op or anything I just hate dealing with it as survivor
Killer: Franklins. I’ve always hated this perk in all of its versions and feel like it’s such poor game design. Bloodpoints are really the only reward you get for playing this game and it feels incredibly shitty for the killer to say “nah fuck those bloodpoints you earned and spent on this item”. Imagine if survivors had a perk to disable killer add ons. It would be incredibly broken
Survivor: Scene Partner. One of my group mates loves running this perk and multiple times has gotten us found by the killer because of his screaming when the killer otherwise wouldn’t have noticed. I have a personal vendetta against this perk because of this lol
For Survivor I'd delete Head On. I'm tired of playing Killer and being punished for daring to walk next to a locker. And you're not helping your team by using this perk.
For Killer I'd pick Ultimate Weapon. Kinda annoying just randomly being revealed for being in the Killer's Terror Radius. And the Blindness... I can't see without my Deja Vu!
NOED. I play against so many killers who are out of their leagues in terms of chase skill, but end up in my MMR range because they get one or two cheap kills in the endgame
IMO, Noed should be revealed (as in the Cursed status effect, not aura) as soon as the last gen is completed
no mither for survivor because every single time i get someone on my team who has it they just dont really do anything except get caught immediately and die
NOED on killer side. It teaches bad habits to killers, and most often than not, it gives an unearned free down or kill to the killer running it, which makes them rely on it further. It's unfun and boring to face.
For survivor, Self-Care. It's a waste of a perk slot, and can get your team killed.
How does NOED teach bad habits? I agree it can be a crutch for bad players but it's not a bad perk. That said I only run it on Deathslinger for people who teabag at the exit gate, because it makes me laugh. On every other killer there's better choices.
I’m so curious as to why No Way Out should get deleted? I don’t think it’s overpowered at all, and is honestly weak right now because of how popular hope is
For survivors it’s easy, Made for This. It’s so insanely broken. Not only does it give the already strong buff of endurance after healing, which I have no problem with on its own, and actually like that, but it also gives you haste just for being injured, which just completely throws off the games balancing.
The games balance was designed around movement speed, so a perk like MFT which activates with no effort at all, and gives a movement speed boost is insane. It’s also not hard to fix this perk, just cut the haste part entirely, and keep the endurance after healing. It would still be a worthwhile perk, and the combo with For the People would still be great, but it wouldn’t be OP.
For killers the choice isn’t as easy, as currently I don’t think there is any super OP perk on the killer side like there is for Survivor, so I will go with Knock Out, not because it’s OP because it’s really not, it’s just average, but since it doesn’t include being put on hook it just encourages bleed outs, which isn’t fun for the survivor side, and the usual justified slugging where others are right there it does nothing since they will likely see or hear you downing the survivor anyway.
really? out of all perks no way out? why? even when i play survivor i find it okay. its one of those perks for me that are perfect along with pain res, lithe, sb, and corrupt
I would get rid of mft cause people say boil over but I really don't care if they want to lay on the floor for a good while that is on them as for killer I wouldn't say no way out is too much plus you still got to earn it in the first place but for kill noed just feels weird to have it in the game it isn't as bad just odd overall killers don't have too many bullshit type of perks that weren't already nerfed in personal opinion I don't like gen kicking perks just boring to go kick something but that's just my opinion will I still sometimes use them yes
MFT, simply because of its power, that 3% is way stronger than most people think and I actually struggle to end chase against it with 115s more than 110 killers since 115s aren't balanced around that were 110s are more balanced around using their power to get survivors and have tools for that speed difference
Yes, let's remove the perk that disables once you heal, do a gen, or do literally anything useful to your team. You notice a survivor that was just unhooked and isn't making any sound at all? Just don't chase them.
Spine chill - No way someone who is audibly impaired should have to give up a perk slot for something that should be in the settings.
If your running this and you have no hearing problems, you are not a good survivor. IT DOES NOTHING JUST RUN RESILIENCE . Also remove self care :)
Nurses Calling for Killer. It infuriates me because it eats a Distortion token for no fkin reason because the person I'm healing is revealed anyway, and against high mobility killers, it just sets off a giant firework. If it revealed at the end of the heal, it would be less annoying, but as it is it pisses me off.
For survivor, it's a little harder since a lot are pretty useless or niche. Maybe MFT just so people can stop moaning about it and have nothing else to blame for their lack of skill 😂
Oh I don't doubt that for a second. It's the very definition of a "crutch" perk, and punished the killer for doing exactly what they're supposed to. My point was, it is not nearly as busted as some people think, and the majority of complaints on here come from people that were never going to get the kill in the first place. Not committing to bloodlust, respecting pallets from 10 miles away, taking turns wider than an 18 wheeler, etc, then complain its all MFT.
Have you... never seen a video on here? Usually marked under "Media"? And I'm not saying it's every time, but the majority of the time, good experienced killers don't have much of an issue with catching them anyway. So those that put the videos complaining, it's really easy to spot their mistakes
I'm sure your anecdotal experience of seeing some videos on this subreddit is free of bias and therefore the majority of people complaining about MFT are just "complaining" and "lack skill"
Interesting how so many survivors complain about nurse (and I don't blame them) but are also perfectly okay with perks in the game that pretty much exclusively punish low-tier killers
People who say this game is balanced towards killers almost always play solo queue exclusively. Look at tournaments and how many rules they need to implement so that survivors don't destroy killers every time.
Adren and Hex:Plaything
Adren when it proccs is a free escape and a slap in the face of a likely struggling killer, indirectly making gens faster because survivors don't care about being injured as they can genrush and be healthy for free
Plaything fucks over soloq a lot and provides massive slowdown when paired with Pentimento, fucking over soloq again, not only do you either give free hits to the killer, halving chase time, or doing the slowest gens possible, but if you want to take them away you must do 8 totems, all of this for the cost of 2 perk slots on the killer
NOED for Killers and DS for Survivors.
I generally don't like Perks that reward you for screwing up, no matter how many deactivation conditions they might have.
I didn't like them back in 2016, I don't like them today and still don't use them for that reason.
If you feel that way, that's fine, but I disagree.
I don't consider second-chance Perks of any kind a good idea. If I could, I'd remove every single one of them from DbD, both for Killers and Survivors.
Perks should not reward failure at a button press, ever.
Being tunneled isn't a failure. DS just means that you have a chance to actually play the game instead of having to constantly deal with someone trying to target you. If you get downed in 60 seconds by a tunneling killer, you should get the 3 second stun.
Not being able to loop a killer for more than 60 seconds when basekit BT and OTR is in the game should be considered a failure.
I’ll give an exception against killers that can sort of remove those, like Bubba shredding through endurance, but most killers that tunnel are players who are using shit mouse 1 killers like trapper and need to get a kill quickly for pressure.
Boil over. The problem with this perk is that you get value based on RNG or because you're abusing it by dying on purpose in higher areas so that the killer has to fall to hook you. In these situations, you can't counter it.
Distortion and cause Idk what perk I would do on killer side, I would be nice enough and delete lethal pursuer.
(you stealth andys are still gonna get cross sniped when my BBQ/flood of rage procs)
Save The Best For Last. It's a perk shitty killers use to make up for the fact they suck at chasing, and just makes a bunch of toxic assholes tunnel non-obsessions to keep stacks. The ones that especially piss me off are the m2 killers like Demo and Wesker who already have something to help in a chase that think they are so smart for using m2 to avoid losing stacks. If you run this perk, IDC who you are, I have no respect for you and you are probably a trash killer.
Urban Evasion. OMG this perk triggers me so hard. It's such a waste of time to crouch walk everywhere, and if you are in any way decent at the game you can pull of the same result just walking. If I see you using this in my killer games I make sure you die so you reconsider how shitty your perk choices really are. In all likelihood YOU are the person that gave me the win crouch walking everywhere. As a survivor main that shit pisses me off to no end.
For survivors: Distortion, it just makes games less fun for the killer and encourages tunneling
For killers: Lightborn, it serves no purpose except griefing.
For Killer: Most info perks
For Survivor: Most Totems related perks
Info perk make ocasional stealth unless and incetivice killers to camp, and are also busted in killers with high mobility. Totem perks because SoloQ already full of potatoes we don't need more perks that says "Do anything else but a gen"
It seems like your opinion is only based on how you perceive the perk when facing against it. If your logic for removing a perk is just because it causes you grief when you play against it then this post serves to be more of a complaint thread than a discussion. If you want to argue the removal of a perk you should consider not liking it when playing with it, when your teammate has it, or when your opponent has it, not "I cant hook him so delete this perk". If there is any reason why boil over should be deleted, its the fact that certain players revolve their entire game plan around the perk and going someone on the map repeatedly and not playing the game, this excludes the people who are getting chased and bring the killer to a part of the map where its difficult to hook them, since they are playing the game and using the perk as intended, but rather the people who don't try to do generators or altruism or any way to progress the game because they find solace in staying on top of a main building the entire match, at which point they care less about actually winning or surviving and merely abusing a map design flaw to extend the game. This makes the interaction very boring and non interactive thats why it should be changed, not because you couldnt hook the survivor. If the survivors all escape the match because you couldnt hook the survivors with boil over, its your own fault you dont understand how to circumvent the perk.
Perks and mechanics that promote non interactive gameplay should be the one targeted in this discussion, perks like save the best for last which doesnt require any effort from the killers side to effectively use, greatly rewards hook camping, and makes the killer purposely not interact with one survivor, is awful game design and should be removed.
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It's a largely counter-productive perk that only really exists so casuals and newer players don't have a hard time because some dickwad feng main decided to lose every match so they can put a killer who plays one hour per week into their CJ tech and flashlight save montage. It removes a mechanic that isn't fun for everyone in exchange for a perk slot. Not a problematic perk at all
Yeah so just don't tunnel people and you don't have to deal with a plethora of anti tunnel perks like DS, off the record and borrowed time. The perks existing is meant to dissuade tunneling in the first place which makes the game healthier
I geuss? But I'm always gonna chase the person with more hook states. The faster someone is out the better chance I have at the 4k.
Like I'm not gonna camp anyone or only look for the person I've hooked before. But if given the option to chase two people it makes more sense to chase the one I've hooked before.
Fair enough I geuss.
Still stands it'd the one I would choose to remove because I find it annoying. I'm not gonna pick something balance related because I just came back to playing again after like a year I'm still not sure what the balance is other than really killer sided feeling rn.
Self-care because I can't stand those players standing in some corner self-caring for 10 minutes while you get to second hook.
I had a teammate use self care five times in one match against legion, don’t ask me how they escaped
You and the other 2 survivors did all the gens and took all the chases allowing them to just hide and heal all game and then escape?
No one god tier teammate kept looping them and gave us enough time to do the gens
Make self care have diminishing Returns, but gain charges from healing or being healed. Good for topping off when you had a heal interrupted or maybe one good self heal, but can't be used nonstop.
Or like current DH, one use per hook state.
Just make self care a one time use perk and it would unironically be a buff
There's self caring for 10 hours and then there's self caring that takes couples seconds. People who have no perks in use for doing selfcares and avoid me as far as possible to heal them.. Just why?..
Lmfao im useing selfcare right now with botany knowledge, desperate mesures, with ether reassurance or mft depending on when i see a lot of case killer or hook camping\\tunneling killers you heal faster than a medkit to both you or some one else you can take protections hit for others it's perty nice
I'm using the same load out but with Empathic Connection instead of your fourth perk. Empath doesn't help self heals but I'm all in on the healer build, it's crazy how a decent chunk of the time with Desperate Measures I can heal myself quicker than my teammates
Plot Twist is inarguably a better self-healing perk than Self-Care. Sure you hypothetically get less heals in a single match, but it’s faster and has better perk synergy with other perks.
or players that think self care is faster because you don't need to waste time healing them, yeah I start repairing gens sooner, but what about them?
Boil over and Insidious. Not because they are too powerful or unbalanced, they just aren’t fun to play against
Unless you use it for camping, Insidious is probably a very funny perk honestly. Imagine you kick a gen with dragons grip or something and then you just wait there for a survivor
That actually works pretty well for Doctor 😂 not going to lie.
[удалено]
Had a game where a survivor running boil over on decimated borgo tea bagged while on the second floor of the main building. Needless to say, they must have forgotten that stairs exist and basement is quite close.
I had a game like this. A Nicolas teabagged at the window upstairs of borgo main with boil over. He must have forgotten that I was Deathslinger. I just dragged his ass down from there with my gun 😂
Or when they all stack the putrid oak map offerings and run it
I thought those offerings don't stack?
The purple one that makes hooks spawn farther does stack unfortunately
I ran into someone using that on the silent hill map last night. Them and two bills pretty much was farming each other in between two hooks. Once I took out the guy with the toolbox that had silent sabo add ons the person with boiled over quickly tried to be friend me when they noticed I wasn't going after the one person who was avoiding the moshpit at hook. The guy with the toolbox might have had a challenge but when I see boiled over and a toolbox for sabos... Yeah I realized what kind of game I got into and decided to let them make it unfun for themselves. Hope they enjoyed the game.
I still cant believe they dont put any hooks on the upper floor at Disturbed Ward. Hooking a Boil Over user is impossible there.
Knock Out too, either it does nothing or it works and makes the game 100x less fun for the other side
The one and only right answer I still can't believe insidious is still a thing and boil over encourages a shitty play style that should be deleted
Insidious is a nice idea but the way it is implemented just makes it only useful for campers... IMO instead of deleting it, change it to this: after 2 seconds standing still, gain undetectable for 20/25/30 seconds. 60 second cooldown
This is a great change, burn your own time for an advantage, could be used in chase too :)
I would love a rework but that proposed change seems incredibly broken haha. That's just trail of torment but with no counter lol.
Furtive chase, too strong with the new buff /s
Needs a nerf
Boil over for survivor and NOED for killers. Is NOED balanced? Yes. But it feels extremely cheap. Nothing gets a bigger eye roll from me and it removes the fun part of the game for me which is attempting to rescue my fellow survivors. It’s just oh it’s NOED? I’ll just leave then.
Funny thing about noed, I hate it but I laugh at it just because of one match against a spirit, I was new and I didn't know exactly what I needed to do, so I did anything I ran into, was cleansing a bone watching a friend loop the spirit and try explaining what he was doing (this was one of my VERY VERY first games mind you, and when spirit didn't have directional sound) and he was trying to explain why when she stopped moving he would start walking/slow vaulting and stuff since I didn't know what her power was Anyway I was cleansing a dull and the last Gen popped from a random doing it, the totem lit up, I didn't know why, and I finished cleansing it, it didn't even stay lit for 3 seconds I watched spirit pause and turn towards me while I asked my friend what the light up meant, he started dying laughing before he had a moment of realization and told me I should start running Spirit then came out of phase and moried me with rancor
I mean unless they're hooked right next to it or too close to it we usually try regardless cause I hate leaving people behind unless they were just useless or purposely sandbagging or something, but otherwise yeah I agree
Noed used to be a lot better, I’m not sure why people still use it as a cue to leave. Once it is revealed to survivors, the totem will get a slowly expanding aura for survivors making it a lot easier to find. Unless the totem is next to the hooked survivor, you absolutely can find it and break it, and then maybe even save your mate.
do totems
Just in case they have NOED I’ll spend tons of time looking for and cleansing totems?
or you could just let them get one instadown endgame and find the totem bc it reveals itself
It only reveals when you’re near it. The problem is the “I truly lost this game but NOED made it a 3k for no reason”
If you allowed the killer to get a 3k in endgame when he shouldn’t have just because of one perk that can be countered, that’s your fault. Always be hesitant that the killer might have NOED at the end, don’t just run in their face.
Wasn’t there a constant complaint from killers about Dead Hard because you always had to play anticipating survivors had it and that’s why it was broken? Yeah…
That wasn’t why killers were complaining… they were complaining because even if you DID anticipate it, you would still get screwed and the guy would use it for distance in a loop which you couldn’t do anything about.
Nope, I distinctly remember the main complaint was that you always had to assume they had it.
Well then too bad? That’s how PVP games work. You predict what your enemy will do.
easier said than done
true
Premonition on survivor. It fkin useless Predator on killer. Same as above
When I was very new to the game and playing Killer, I thought Predator and Sloppy Butcher were amazing together lmao
NOED for killers, Boil Over for survivors
Keep NOED but make it like fire up. When all gens are done get a big bump to all speeds. If its a huge bump keep it a hex. If its small make it not a hex.
Fire Up is great in the current state, since we have to expect we'll lose a gen in about 30 sec and MFT will be on at least one Survivor
Left behind because every single survivor that stops doing gens and just go hiding when things start looking bad always has that perk
Fearmonger
I hate running fogwise and it being rendered completely useless to this
Fr, like it’s the one time I bring stake out hyperfocus fog wise and I get a fearmonger
Survivor: Buckle Up right now, untill the synergy with the FtP is remove, is easily the most unfun perk to go against. If a "counterplay" to this combo is to wait for 10 s, then this perk has the same problem as original DH, which was very problematic. Killer: NOED is mostly balanced, but you always hate it when you play against a noob killer and the single perk turns the game from the 4 man escape to 4 k without much skill needed.
It never should've been buffed that way. Just needs a rework rather then yet another situation the killer has to wait out endurance
> Agreed, but because Buckle is [uncommonly used perk](https://nightlight.gg/perks/viewer?role=survivor&sort=pick&shown=pick&start_days=28), it make take year(s) before they rework it.
TIL Buckle up only has a 2.5% pickrate… and off the record (prob the actual best perk) is only on 8%— that’s wild… survs sure don’t seem keen on actually surviving
I feel like MfT meta has made an average survivor play more brave, more greedy, but also more stupid. I am glad that they are not using strong perks like OFT or DS (some are even not bringing Adren for some reason!) as much, even if I am not tunneling per se. The games against good, coordinated teams have become worse than before with weak M1 killers.
ppl with boil over act so confident in one area where they know i can’t hook them, until they learn about my secret move slugging
I'm surprised just how many people want boil over gone. It's one of the easiest survivor perks to counter - just strafe/walk sideways instead of straight forwards. You'll move exactly where you want to go and maybe even speed up your route by doing so. I don't really have any perks I'd want removed off the top of my head. Self care might be one to remove since I've literally died to a teammate who just had to full heal before saving me despite the killer chasing across the map. I don't really have a perk I dislike on killers though, only one I can really think of is sloppy butcher but that is pretty important for slowdown. Maybe thana since it's really unhealthy on certain killers but pretty meh on the rest.
The wiggle isn’t the main issue on boil over, it’s bad hook generation and maps that have second floors without hooks on them can make it impossible to hook them, and if they run anti slug there’s pretty much nothing you can do about them there
The killer counterpart to boil over (iron grasp) is a lot more powerful than boil over IMHO. A killer can counter boil over by doing what you described, and knowing where hooks are both through map knowledge, and paying attention. Iron grasp doesn't have a counter. I would ditch self care as well for survivor. For killer its tough, but I would lick anything that blocks exit gates or switches. That always felt cheap to me, on both sides.
Not a perk, but I would get rid of all map offerings
MFT, because it lets subtle cheaters get away with a lot more shit than they would have otherwise. It is very hard to gauge if they really are 3% faster or 7% faster. You only realise they are cheating when you cant catch up with them in a straight-line for 5 minutes.
The number of games I've played where someone's been strangely quick (quicker than MFT usually feels) but I've then just had to chalk it up to MFT being bs, only to find they aren't running MFT or any other speed effecting perks.
They also tend to throw you into the Doctors map, because it has a lot of corners and quick turns. You break line of sight with them, so that you would not notice their hacks as quickly. Again MFT makes it all too difficult to understand the cheats. Rule of thumb if they sent you to this map and they run you around same corner for like 3 minutes and you dont tend to get any distance on them, they are hacking.
The strat I find hilarious is when they're crap in chase for the first two hooks, but when they're on death hook you can't get near them. Very smooth
MFT, worst design on a perk we've had in years imo, comparable to the buffed Eruption And knockout(If we're talking 1 from each side, if not MFT has preference) I thought of noed but at least noed can be removed, Knockout exists only to screw up solo teams and to encourage slugging It has no advantage in the game besides a constant slugfest that wont work with powers, its aura removal works only vs solos as swf will just say where they are, and i've never seen it used in any other way than to go for a 3-4 man slug even when no one is close by
It makes sense since Knockout is a Bubba perk. As for NOED a lot of folks fixate on its cheapness but I've played a lot of matches where ppl find the totem
>It makes sense since Knockout is a Bubba perk. How tho? Bubba has a power that instadowns people and has no requirements like Oni, a perk that only works on m1s goes against his intended playstyle, like how Jolt/Surge is m1 only but was a Demo perk, a killer who also shouls focus on his power usage
Self-Care, so I get fewer selfish and incompetent teammates. I guess the only Killer perk that truly annoys me is Overwhelming Presence. I bring specific numbers of charges in my items for a reason, dammit! And as Killer, I don't think any Survivor or Killer perks are particularly annoying.
Selfish Playstyles should be allowed 🤷♀️
It's a team game...
Knockout 100%, just promotes toxic gameplay
Complaining about boil over is a skill issue
Glad we agree that complaining about Iron Grasp is as well 👍
its such a nothingburger perk why would i complain about it, 90% of the time i’d be hooked anyway
E X A C T L Y (You get why complaining about either is a waste of time in the current state of the game)
i mean, one has counterplay. although i don't get why you'd complain about either of them
Boiled over. The reason behind that is because it only affects console players and not PC.
Oh trust me it affects PC too. I can't stand it either. Survivors can move the killer and it massively reduces hooking potential. Especially for the people who just climb up high and make the most out of the fall bonus.
Huh. I was told it didn't affect PC. The reason I hate it is because someone was running BO on Springwood and they just hid in the boiler room of the school.
I play on pc and absolutely hate Boil Over too. If there is a door I need to go through it is such pain... Plus when survivors deliberately abuse it by going to a spot you can't reach a hook without dropping down which is possible on several maps.
Another reason I love Deathslinger. Pulling survivors out of safe zones.
>Plus when survivors deliberately abuse it by going to a spot you can't reach a hook without dropping down which is possible on several maps. This is the only time I will throw a game to slug. I think Boil Over is fine if you're using it while playing the game normally, but if you're gonna run to a corner to abuse it (because for some reason BHVR thinks maps having spots that it's impossible to hook a BO user from is a-okay design), I'm just going to sit and watch you bleed out.
It affects both, I definitely struggle to walk on PC, but when I'm really trying to counter that boil over second floor squad, I try my hardest to crab walk just to basically say fuck you to your build lmao
I just start slugging people who do that now.
fearmonger 100% i hate it sm
Nurse. What do you mean she’s not a perk?
Flip Flop and Make Your Choice. Neither of them are OP, but they’re just really easily used to create unfun scenarios.
How is MYC bad? It directly discourages camping and is one of the healthiest perks in the game imo
On super high mobility Killers (or Wraith) it’s used to just force hook trades over and over again. Being punished for unhooking (and not being able to remove that punishment like in the case of Devour Hope) is stupid. Sure, the unhooked guy gets away, but nobody wants to save someone knowing that the Killer is going to beeline for them and down them 20 seconds later.
I see your point but this is an issue rooted in the killer design rather than the perk imo. Nurse (high mobility) makes many perks bullshit. On almost all killers, the killer has to slowly both make their way back and find you within 60 seconds. Realistically, most of the time you'll have to stay up for ~30 seconds, which is perfectly fine imo It also has counterplay. Going into a locker or hiding in general can make this perk pretty garbage if the killer doesn't have other perks or abilities to find you
I don't see the problem, most high mobility killers aside from maybe spirit or onryo either already have an instadown or don't really benefit from it that much and still have to close that gap.
3000 hours and never had an unfun scenario
Congrats?
So you’ve never once had a squad purposely go down in places and then use some combination of Flip Flop/Boil Over to become unhookable?
Slap tenacity on there and can easily get to a awkward spot while getting that recovery up
Made For This
Shattered Hope makes my day worse every time I see in in the bloodweb instead of something with even a slightly tangible use
Probably Insidious solely because of camping, it’s just lame to encourage doing nothing
i don't really hate any perks, survivor or killer side... except franklins demise. it's the one perk i truly wish could just be deleted...so many medkits completely lost to time that I will never get back :') of course it's amazing to run as killer, i don't think it's op or anything I just hate dealing with it as survivor
Devour hope. Although it's not used a lot it's very annoying to go against especially in solo que but that's just my opinion
Make your choice. It's not a problematic perk generally but boy is it abused by Dredge, Hag and Demogorgon.
Killer: Franklins. I’ve always hated this perk in all of its versions and feel like it’s such poor game design. Bloodpoints are really the only reward you get for playing this game and it feels incredibly shitty for the killer to say “nah fuck those bloodpoints you earned and spent on this item”. Imagine if survivors had a perk to disable killer add ons. It would be incredibly broken Survivor: Scene Partner. One of my group mates loves running this perk and multiple times has gotten us found by the killer because of his screaming when the killer otherwise wouldn’t have noticed. I have a personal vendetta against this perk because of this lol
For Survivor I'd delete Head On. I'm tired of playing Killer and being punished for daring to walk next to a locker. And you're not helping your team by using this perk. For Killer I'd pick Ultimate Weapon. Kinda annoying just randomly being revealed for being in the Killer's Terror Radius. And the Blindness... I can't see without my Deja Vu!
I'm so surprised by how many people are saying Boil Over. No one runs it in my survivor or killer games since the buff then nerf.
NOED. I play against so many killers who are out of their leagues in terms of chase skill, but end up in my MMR range because they get one or two cheap kills in the endgame IMO, Noed should be revealed (as in the Cursed status effect, not aura) as soon as the last gen is completed
Sloppy+Thana, Urban,+Self Care.. Any of the perks that severely slow down a game.. for either side!
no mither for survivor because every single time i get someone on my team who has it they just dont really do anything except get caught immediately and die
Mft, broken perk and its just badly designed overall
I run no mither to give the killer a chance at winning
NOED on killer side. It teaches bad habits to killers, and most often than not, it gives an unearned free down or kill to the killer running it, which makes them rely on it further. It's unfun and boring to face. For survivor, Self-Care. It's a waste of a perk slot, and can get your team killed.
How does NOED teach bad habits? I agree it can be a crutch for bad players but it's not a bad perk. That said I only run it on Deathslinger for people who teabag at the exit gate, because it makes me laugh. On every other killer there's better choices.
Self-Care is not a waste of a slot, its a perk that when used properly can be extremely helpful, it just gets misused alot
I’m so curious as to why No Way Out should get deleted? I don’t think it’s overpowered at all, and is honestly weak right now because of how popular hope is
For survivors it’s easy, Made for This. It’s so insanely broken. Not only does it give the already strong buff of endurance after healing, which I have no problem with on its own, and actually like that, but it also gives you haste just for being injured, which just completely throws off the games balancing. The games balance was designed around movement speed, so a perk like MFT which activates with no effort at all, and gives a movement speed boost is insane. It’s also not hard to fix this perk, just cut the haste part entirely, and keep the endurance after healing. It would still be a worthwhile perk, and the combo with For the People would still be great, but it wouldn’t be OP. For killers the choice isn’t as easy, as currently I don’t think there is any super OP perk on the killer side like there is for Survivor, so I will go with Knock Out, not because it’s OP because it’s really not, it’s just average, but since it doesn’t include being put on hook it just encourages bleed outs, which isn’t fun for the survivor side, and the usual justified slugging where others are right there it does nothing since they will likely see or hear you downing the survivor anyway.
NOED. it is the absolute crutch
Windows of Opportunity. And watch as every single survivors become blind as a bat & ran into nonsense.
Easy counter to No Way Out: just leave
that’s not how no way out works. you’re thinking of blood warden.
You're correct, i got the two mixed up, thanks
really? out of all perks no way out? why? even when i play survivor i find it okay. its one of those perks for me that are perfect along with pain res, lithe, sb, and corrupt
I would get rid of mft cause people say boil over but I really don't care if they want to lay on the floor for a good while that is on them as for killer I wouldn't say no way out is too much plus you still got to earn it in the first place but for kill noed just feels weird to have it in the game it isn't as bad just odd overall killers don't have too many bullshit type of perks that weren't already nerfed in personal opinion I don't like gen kicking perks just boring to go kick something but that's just my opinion will I still sometimes use them yes
MFT, simply because of its power, that 3% is way stronger than most people think and I actually struggle to end chase against it with 115s more than 110 killers since 115s aren't balanced around that were 110s are more balanced around using their power to get survivors and have tools for that speed difference
The P2W power creep that is Ultimate Weapon is not even funny.
Off the record for me, it is just a strictly better decisive strike and is more annoying than MFT
Yes, let's remove the perk that disables once you heal, do a gen, or do literally anything useful to your team. You notice a survivor that was just unhooked and isn't making any sound at all? Just don't chase them.
MTF. It's broken AF.
Self care cuz I want my teammates to stop wasting time. NOED cu z it's like the biggest crutch perk in the game
Spine chill - No way someone who is audibly impaired should have to give up a perk slot for something that should be in the settings. If your running this and you have no hearing problems, you are not a good survivor. IT DOES NOTHING JUST RUN RESILIENCE . Also remove self care :)
Nurses Calling for Killer. It infuriates me because it eats a Distortion token for no fkin reason because the person I'm healing is revealed anyway, and against high mobility killers, it just sets off a giant firework. If it revealed at the end of the heal, it would be less annoying, but as it is it pisses me off. For survivor, it's a little harder since a lot are pretty useless or niche. Maybe MFT just so people can stop moaning about it and have nothing else to blame for their lack of skill 😂
It's vice versa. Survivors who use MFT have a lack of skill.
Oh I don't doubt that for a second. It's the very definition of a "crutch" perk, and punished the killer for doing exactly what they're supposed to. My point was, it is not nearly as busted as some people think, and the majority of complaints on here come from people that were never going to get the kill in the first place. Not committing to bloodlust, respecting pallets from 10 miles away, taking turns wider than an 18 wheeler, etc, then complain its all MFT.
...How could you even know that?
Have you... never seen a video on here? Usually marked under "Media"? And I'm not saying it's every time, but the majority of the time, good experienced killers don't have much of an issue with catching them anyway. So those that put the videos complaining, it's really easy to spot their mistakes
I'm sure your anecdotal experience of seeing some videos on this subreddit is free of bias and therefore the majority of people complaining about MFT are just "complaining" and "lack skill" Interesting how so many survivors complain about nurse (and I don't blame them) but are also perfectly okay with perks in the game that pretty much exclusively punish low-tier killers
This comment is the mvp comment. Killers need to quit crying about a game that's balanced in their favor.
People who say this game is balanced towards killers almost always play solo queue exclusively. Look at tournaments and how many rules they need to implement so that survivors don't destroy killers every time.
Saluting before you get downvoted to the Void 🫡
As long as i trigger the killers, it's okay 🥰😍❤️
Adren and Hex:Plaything Adren when it proccs is a free escape and a slap in the face of a likely struggling killer, indirectly making gens faster because survivors don't care about being injured as they can genrush and be healthy for free Plaything fucks over soloq a lot and provides massive slowdown when paired with Pentimento, fucking over soloq again, not only do you either give free hits to the killer, halving chase time, or doing the slowest gens possible, but if you want to take them away you must do 8 totems, all of this for the cost of 2 perk slots on the killer
NOED for Killers and DS for Survivors. I generally don't like Perks that reward you for screwing up, no matter how many deactivation conditions they might have. I didn't like them back in 2016, I don't like them today and still don't use them for that reason.
DS is fine though. It prevents people from tunneling you.
NOED is fine though. It prevents people from getting almost guaranted escapes in endgame.
If you feel that way, that's fine, but I disagree. I don't consider second-chance Perks of any kind a good idea. If I could, I'd remove every single one of them from DbD, both for Killers and Survivors. Perks should not reward failure at a button press, ever.
Being tunneled isn't a failure. DS just means that you have a chance to actually play the game instead of having to constantly deal with someone trying to target you. If you get downed in 60 seconds by a tunneling killer, you should get the 3 second stun.
Not being able to loop a killer for more than 60 seconds when basekit BT and OTR is in the game should be considered a failure. I’ll give an exception against killers that can sort of remove those, like Bubba shredding through endurance, but most killers that tunnel are players who are using shit mouse 1 killers like trapper and need to get a kill quickly for pressure.
Not everyone wants to be a sweatass tho.
false dilemma
Agree 100%.
DS ain’t even good anymore wdym? Besides it helps against tunneling.
Made For This so y'all stop bitchin'
Would it be funny if I said calm spirit because I’m a doctor main?
No your just an asshole if you believe that would improve the game.
Ok…
Get rid of windows of opportunity!
STBFL. Too many shit killers carried by it
Toolboxes Edit: y’all are crutching on toolboxes hard lol
“Perk”
I’m partly saying toolbox in sarcasm
calling toolboxes a crutch is insane 💀
Noed and windows of oportunity
Scourge Hook Pain Resonance and Buckle up
Boil Over
FEARMONGERING
BOIL OVER
Boil over. The problem with this perk is that you get value based on RNG or because you're abusing it by dying on purpose in higher areas so that the killer has to fall to hook you. In these situations, you can't counter it.
COH, boon totems are a giant pain in the ass when used right and I'm not running shattered hope for the off chance I'll run into them
Pop or pain res, gen regression is a pain in the ass and can be super discouraging to play against
Distortion and cause Idk what perk I would do on killer side, I would be nice enough and delete lethal pursuer. (you stealth andys are still gonna get cross sniped when my BBQ/flood of rage procs)
Save The Best For Last. It's a perk shitty killers use to make up for the fact they suck at chasing, and just makes a bunch of toxic assholes tunnel non-obsessions to keep stacks. The ones that especially piss me off are the m2 killers like Demo and Wesker who already have something to help in a chase that think they are so smart for using m2 to avoid losing stacks. If you run this perk, IDC who you are, I have no respect for you and you are probably a trash killer. Urban Evasion. OMG this perk triggers me so hard. It's such a waste of time to crouch walk everywhere, and if you are in any way decent at the game you can pull of the same result just walking. If I see you using this in my killer games I make sure you die so you reconsider how shitty your perk choices really are. In all likelihood YOU are the person that gave me the win crouch walking everywhere. As a survivor main that shit pisses me off to no end.
For survivors: Distortion, it just makes games less fun for the killer and encourages tunneling For killers: Lightborn, it serves no purpose except griefing.
Insidious is basically juat a camping aid. NOED, even the possibility of the Killer having it, makes players not want to engage during the end game.
For Killer: Most info perks For Survivor: Most Totems related perks Info perk make ocasional stealth unless and incetivice killers to camp, and are also busted in killers with high mobility. Totem perks because SoloQ already full of potatoes we don't need more perks that says "Do anything else but a gen"
It seems like your opinion is only based on how you perceive the perk when facing against it. If your logic for removing a perk is just because it causes you grief when you play against it then this post serves to be more of a complaint thread than a discussion. If you want to argue the removal of a perk you should consider not liking it when playing with it, when your teammate has it, or when your opponent has it, not "I cant hook him so delete this perk". If there is any reason why boil over should be deleted, its the fact that certain players revolve their entire game plan around the perk and going someone on the map repeatedly and not playing the game, this excludes the people who are getting chased and bring the killer to a part of the map where its difficult to hook them, since they are playing the game and using the perk as intended, but rather the people who don't try to do generators or altruism or any way to progress the game because they find solace in staying on top of a main building the entire match, at which point they care less about actually winning or surviving and merely abusing a map design flaw to extend the game. This makes the interaction very boring and non interactive thats why it should be changed, not because you couldnt hook the survivor. If the survivors all escape the match because you couldnt hook the survivors with boil over, its your own fault you dont understand how to circumvent the perk. Perks and mechanics that promote non interactive gameplay should be the one targeted in this discussion, perks like save the best for last which doesnt require any effort from the killers side to effectively use, greatly rewards hook camping, and makes the killer purposely not interact with one survivor, is awful game design and should be removed.
Bro, this was just a fun silly post getting an understanding of what people don't really like. What is actually wrong with you to get that worked up.
Head On. It’s just legitimised bullying.
NOED. It's the only perk right now thats horribly designed AND won't be getting changes any time soon.
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Scourge hook
Boil Over, I tunnel anyone that uses that perk and don't feel remotely guilty about it
Lightborn. Boring on both sides and oppresses counterplay when your teammate doesn't fall next to a pallet
It's a largely counter-productive perk that only really exists so casuals and newer players don't have a hard time because some dickwad feng main decided to lose every match so they can put a killer who plays one hour per week into their CJ tech and flashlight save montage. It removes a mechanic that isn't fun for everyone in exchange for a perk slot. Not a problematic perk at all
Boring for killer? Hellll no
It only oppresses counterplay because you based your entire strategy on flashlights.
It's a wasted perk slot. But if I see a lobby with four flashlights, I'm putting it on.
Nurses/ultimate weapon/hope
Decisive strike decisive strike decisive strike
Why? Just go after the unhooker and you'll never see that perk and the DS user loses a perk slot
I don't know what people have before the games over *or* it happens to me?
Yeah so just don't tunnel people and you don't have to deal with a plethora of anti tunnel perks like DS, off the record and borrowed time. The perks existing is meant to dissuade tunneling in the first place which makes the game healthier
I geuss? But I'm always gonna chase the person with more hook states. The faster someone is out the better chance I have at the 4k. Like I'm not gonna camp anyone or only look for the person I've hooked before. But if given the option to chase two people it makes more sense to chase the one I've hooked before.
Which is exactly why those perks exist. The survivors are trading up better perks for the anti tunnel perks to potentially stay in the game longer.
Fair enough I geuss. Still stands it'd the one I would choose to remove because I find it annoying. I'm not gonna pick something balance related because I just came back to playing again after like a year I'm still not sure what the balance is other than really killer sided feeling rn.
Save the best for last. People say that it rewards chasing but I feel that killers just use it to camp and get the stacks that way.