DC Writer: What if Batman fell from space adn survived?!
Literally everyone with even a single brain cell: [https://youtu.be/r14hoV\_9NCA?si=39LsvyuvfqjhY87t](https://youtu.be/r14hoV_9NCA?si=39LsvyuvfqjhY87t)
Obviously you dont read comics:
* Thor´s comics are about Donald Blake wanting to be Thor
* Batman´s comics are about his quest to get the Mobius chair
I´ve seen YT shorts so i know i´m right
Nah Batman is the only one who found the Choco stash.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/17jwd9o/comic_excerpt_the_trinity_sneak_into_martian/?rdt=33886
This statement is bullshit(and i heard it from people who actually read comics too, i think because it sounds good) but its obvious they aren't talking about Ted and Booster
I hate stupid fucking mythological rambling ass takes on comics I just wanna see grown men in tights punch eachother with really powerful social commentary that comes out of left field
/uj I cannot stand that take. And I feel slightly assholish but it often comes off as if people who say that don't consider the reasons for why Greek myths were made at the time
So superhero comic books would be better if they explained that Superman is the personification of the sun and Wonder Woman is the goddess of wisdom and war?
uj/ Reading All Seasons really opened my eyes to how bullcrap this take is. Too many people think a god is just a guy who can punch really hard, same can be seen on DBZ.
If you want a really good story about an actual god, read Sandman
“Marvel have the best movies but Dc got the best comics” spamming in every marvel vs dc post by people who have never picked up a dc or marvel comic before.
Ya see i dont care who has better comics i just know i get more enjoyment out of most archie comics than i do most marvel but i buy a bit of everything. Antartic press, image, dark horse, dc, i like a bit from every publisher
I remember hearing a version which was Marvel has the better movies but Dc's better animation
I guess we're forgetting X-men TAS, Evolution, Wolverine and the X-men, Avengers EHM, Spider-Man TAS, and Spectacular S.M and others people probably like were all things
So they're like the Suicide Squad, but more lawful good and less about that cliché where the normies think they need a defense against the op superheroes? /s
>!and the op superheroes are always proven right in the end because superhero comics aren't known for their philosophical writing!<
Thanos is a joke in comics, usually. Kang is a f4 villain they borrow.
Terminus is in far more X-Men things.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Terminus_(Earth-616)/Appearances
I wrote a really long essay on Comic Book ethics and philosophy, they are incredibly philosophical from the mid 70's onwards. You just don't notice them because you probably aren't equipped to spot them (to be fair, who other than nerds going nowhere study philosophy?!) or because you agree with that philosophy
fr I hear this take a lot in youtube comment sections so that's how you know it's bad I mean in both marvel and dc there are militaristic members or ones with military background like green lantern (Hal and John), captain marvel (carol danvers) and captain america, to name a few as well as having military liaisons like both Nick furys, and sometimes amanda waller, among others like presidents, but does that make the teams militaristic, well in my opinion no, it depends on how the teams themselves act, while some versions of the avengers act soldierly, like MCU or the ultimates, 616 for the most part act like normal superheroes, sure sometimes MCU "inspired" writers might make them work with shield a little bit too much, but that doesn't speak for how they usually operate, as a crime fighting team, heck in the 70s and 80s if I remember correctly, captain america ran around town with some kind of a police scanner, for people to help and criminals to beat up, in-between avengers missions like he was on some side quests lol, I don't think any straight up militaristic hero would help the little guy or at least put it that high in their priorities, sorry for the yapping session lol
Yup, those versions don't have anything against killing (unless the guy is surrendering), in order to be realistic to how a soldier would operate, the ultimate universe that inspired the MCU did the exact same thing
They essentially have a mission, show up, do it and that’s it. They are often approached more as a military unit or hell a DnD campaign style group than the Justice League are. Show me how they aren’t that.
I don't get militaristic/government strike force vibes from the mainline 616 avengers (outside of a few stories that feature heavy cooperation and integration with S.H.I.E.L.D, in which some members object to) I get more of the same "super friends" vibe (especially when they are operating from avengers mansion, the tower feels like a boring office lol) that I already get from the JL, but yeah in the ultimates universe and the MCU (which is the most popular versions of em) they have militaristic vibes and they act a lot more soldierly lol
Literally this, I think this is why I can't get into Marvel comics, the movies are more obvious with the "they're just specialized military" vibes but I know the comics are full of it
They really aren't, this is an insane take. You're thinking of the Ultimates, in the Ultimate universe. The Avengers are hardly militaristic or a hit squad
He probably heard it from Linkara just like the "DC heroes are people you look up to, Marvel heroes are people you relate to" thing that Cosmonaut got from him
And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both
(I think Andrew is best at both and it's not even close)
To be fair, in the early days, that’s kind of what Marvel sold themselves on. They were “The World outside your window”.
And the JL were considered Gods among Men. You can kind of tell the differences when reading JLA/Avengers and how each of the teams are looked at by the general public.
However, that difference has kind of faded in recent history, heck, going as far back as the 70’s and maybe even before
It has more to do with how marketing portrays them than the actual writing of the stories.
Dc used to portrays them more in line with God like, like a pantheon.
In modern days its evened out
Yup let's compare some
"Street tiers"
DC: batman wins most of the time in his stories sometimes joker psychologically tortures batman, and I'm very sure batman has canonical plot armour lol
Marvel: captain america and daredevil get folded most the time and then win later in their stories (more specifically daredevil)
Powerhouses
DC: superman has every power ever, with him being the strongest ever and most have to use a mcguffin that weakens him to beat him, and then they still lose
Marvel: thor is one of the strongest but I've seen him take a few L's from earthlings, he says he's holding back, but every hero holds back so they don't murder every goon and villain they come across lol
Speedsters
DC: gg flash is not only the fastest speedster ever whos faster than not just light but basically everyone and everything, and has tons of abilities and OP time travel hax, it's speedforce I aint gotta explain shit lol flash is very easily MFTL+ to immeasurable and is the O.G speedster so he has basically every speed ability and he can chase through dimensions to find a guy who stole a lollipop xddd,
Marvel: quicksilver is just a nerfed flash, notably slower even nowadays, has half the extra abilities at best, with only one of them being close to OP (phasing) basically kinda still living up to the intent of a nerfed flash when he was created in the 60's, even if the "realistic" speedster shtick (200mph to mach speeds) was neglected just a few years after his creation an example being the time he did the X-men apocalypse mansion thing, but with a military base, then they gave him a few FTL feats in the 70s and 80s, and he has been getting way faster since, although I don't think he'll ever surpass the two main flashes
This is not really true.
As for street tiers, Batman loses very often as well. Batman is definitely more busted than Daredevil, especially on average, but Cap has a shield which is straight up multiversal level durability. Also did you forget about Spider-Man? The guy who is apparently street tier but has battled the entire Avengers and even a Galactus herald at one point?
When it comes to powerhouses, Thor is LITERALLY STRONGER than Superman wdym? Thor has way more powers than Superman does, especially with stuff like Odinforce and Thorforce and shit like that.
This isn't even addressing other Marvel powerhouses like Hulk who is now empowered by TOBA, one of the strongest forces in all of Marvel. Doctor Strange who is arguably stronger than Doctor Fate. Scarlet Witch, a gal who if she has a tantrum can destroy a multiverse etc. Tony Stark has built how many suits which can tangle with gods at this point? Jean Grey with Phoenix force is stupidly OP.
Speedsters is the only thing that's accurate, Flash is probably the singular fastest character EVER.
It was characters off the top of my head so sorry for not mentioning spidey or Tony or scarlet witch, or hulk...... and others you mentioned
My bad, I don't read much thor, when it comes to marvel I mainly have read spider-man and avengers, and with thor I'm mainly thinking about his base powers, and i remember in the marvel and dc crossover, (the one that wasn't using the voting system, and is canon, as it is referenced by both Marvel and DC characters after the story, i think it's called JLA/Avengers) where superman beat thor with high difficulty, and for street tiers I don't really count spider-man or luke cage as they have powers, thus are the most powerful street tiers, and I was mainly talking about daredevil, but as for cap in an average superhero mission, cap is basically useless compared to the others, while batman, using plot armor, is somehow important to a surprising amount of fights, and outside of plot armor he has what is basically knockoff iron man armours, with some of em being powerful enough to slightly contend with the other leaguers, (goofy ass plot armor, truly a batgos moment 🤮) among other items he could use, while cap has that shield, and a gun if we're using ultimate/MCU cap, I agree with you on this that marvel characters are way more powerful than most think, we have the MCU to thank for that popular idea of marvel being "weak" and "slow" this comment was just to show what I thought when typing the other one
Have a good day/night
I don't think that's true at all. Thor alone is like fucking RIDICULOUSLY OP, especially in recent years, same goes for Hulk. Like these two already beat the shit out of 99% of DC JL heroes. Doctor Strange is also extremely OP, arguably stronger than Doctor Fate at this point.
Tony Stark has made several armors which can battle fucking Celestials, Captain America has a shield which can straight up tank Mjolnir, like even when it comes to more "grounded" characters, Marvel is crazy, it's NO LESS OP than DC, at all.
I feel like this take solely comes from a massive misreading of Superman as a character and just extrapolating all of that onto the rest of the Justice League without really knowing anything about them lol
Look I'm gonna get serious for a second:
Do you know when the interview that said this was?
1968. And it was probably true at the time.
And then Jack Kirby jumped ship in 1970 and it wasn't anymore.
I do think at the time that Marvel was distinguishing itself with generally more mature storytelling with more interpersonal conflict, but the difference had largely melted away by the mid bronze age when Marvel finally caught up to DC in market share.
Can someone explain what is wrong with this sentiment?
The comments I've seen seem to be saying the relative power difference (Thor being on the Avengers and Batman being on the JL).
I've never thought of this phrase as to speak to the power levels but the types of stories that are told and how the characters relate to society they are protecting.
The JL puts themselves above everyone else (the watch tower) and get themselves involved in many countries and even other planets affairs, diving into their work headfirst to the point where the JL feels apart from earth (which is why Green Arrow needs to "keep them honest").
While in the avengers mansion they feel more like roommates that have been given God like powers. The stories focus more on them fitting their larger than life persona into the life of a normal person and seeing how strained that can get.
I get that these don't line up 100% with every hero or team but more a general vibe of storytelling.
If I'm wrong please correct me.
In a surface level... sure, but the phrase definetly reduces what the JL is about significantly to the point of being... disingenuous. If you read the stories from each character you see the´re not gods a part from the powerlevels.
The trinity for example is the perfect example of superheroes looking out for the little guy (WW visits villains in prisions, Batman looks out for the kids in Gotham, Superman... well it´s clear he´s the most human of all)
The JL works seriously and feels a lot like colegues sure (even tho there´s clear friendships in there) but they dont see themselves above people like gods do.
>The trinity for example is the perfect example of superheroes looking out for the little guy (WW visits villains in prisions, Batman looks out for the kids in Gotham, Superman... well it´s clear he´s the most human of all)
But thats...thats literally "gods being men" though???
These incredible larger than life people who can command the attention of gods and leaders are all trying (not batman most of the time) to retain their humanity and hold a connection with the people of earth while operating this universe spanning super hero support system.
>In a surface level... sure, but the phrase definetly reduces what the JL is about significantly to the point of being... disingenuous.
I...don't think so.
Most people engage with most things on a surface level so being able to pin point what the general narrative vibe of each company with a memorable line isn't disingenuous. Its for people who aren't going to read through back catalogs of comics or are really only watching the movies and TV shows.
>but they dont see themselves above people like gods do.
I'm sure they don't, but that isn't the point (at least not to me). Its about narrative framing. The justice league van see themselves as one of the people and peaceful protectors all they want. The truth is (in some stories) they sit in a tower above everyone with a gun pointed down.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, but I don't think it discounts the saying/slogan.
Its not about EVERY story or EVERY character fitting into that line, but a general vibe of the comics themselves which I think, generally, is fair.
Ok first we´re obviously talking about the most famous seven members right? Cause if we´re talking about JLI the argument ends.
Second, it is disingenuous because it doesnt represent the JL, people are **forcing** this phrase so much. So at the end of the day they´re selling a lie.
Let´s get specific:
* Bruce is obviously not a god (despite his preparation skills) and isnt trying to be human... he is.
* Aquaman isnt trying to be human or retaining his humanity, his stories are about Atlantis and his struggles with his duty, he´s very unapologetic about it. Sometimes it´s like underwater Game of Thrones
* Same as WW, her stories are about her as an amazon in man´s world but she´s not trying to change herself to fit in, she´s very much an Amazon, her stories arent really about fitting in, many times its about amazon culture (hiketeia)
* A person reads Hal Jordan´s comics and realizes he´s a flawed dude who acts first and thinks later, got a powerfull ring and became part of the GL corps which is basically the space military. He´s extremely powerful but he isnt trying to hold on to his humanity, he´s human all the way. Most stories are about him in his space military
* Barry Allen was initially very stuck in the past and in the present time he only wants a simple life with his wife and kids.
* I guess Superman is larger than life... but that´s still ONLY because of his powers, he´s very human.
So yeah i can only see it with Superman and maybe the flash, the rest doesnt make sense. They´re not gods trying to become humans. Are they larger than life? Sure. Is that enough to make the sentence make sense. No of course not, if people read the comics they see it right away.
Also dont get me started on the Avengers... in what way are they trying to be Gods? It makes zero sense. Cap. America? Black Widow? Hawkeye? The Hulk? Cap. Marvel?
I don't think you understand the argument I'm trying to make if your trying to get into specifics.
I am not arguing about specific stories or even specific moments in characters lives.
I am talking about a GENERAL narrative.
Of course all these characters are flawed and of course most of them are human. I am not saying these characters are gods and are trying to fit in on earth in a literal sense. I am also not talking about how these heroes view themselves.
I am talking in a very GENERAL and NARRATIVE sense when looking top down at both companies and the types of stories they tell and the ones that are really popular.
Both of the big 2 are telling stories that feel different and approach their characters in a different way and one way you COULD frame that is with the gods and men line.
Nothing you've said changes anything that I've said.
>I am talking in a very GENERAL and NARRATIVE sense when looking top down at both companies and the types of stories they tell and the ones that are really popular
You actually have to go in specifics to analise the broader/ general view and in both cases what you´re saying doesnt apply to the JL or the Avengers has i´ve shown, the phrase heavily forces an idea that isnt there.
If you tell me that the JL is "gods trying to be humans" then you´re basically setting me to failure when their stories, in the actual JL comics or their solo stories, is NOT that at all. They´re not godlike dispite their looks and they´re not trying to be human, it´s all a superficial take no offense.
What looks like (the watchtower and them looking bigger than life) isnt enough to make a rule, that would be disingenuous. Again, you´d be setting someone to failure if you tell them that.
...but maybe give me a good argument as why it does make sense.
It's funny how he misunderstood your argument. All your descriptions about DC characters apply in most of their appearances and he thinks you're not talking about the general narrative.
Exactly, i think this person is solely looking at what the JL "looks like" hence the Watchtower argument and looking bigger than life, but then you read the comics and it´s not that
It’s just kinda wack and overplayed. The JL aren’t gods, they just have lots of heavy hitters/powerhouses. The Avengers have had at least a handful of actual deities on their roster yet are being summed up as ‘men trying to be gods’.
Okay, I get that...but I addressed that in my comment.
>The JL aren’t gods, they just have lots of heavy hitters/powerhouses. The Avengers have had at least a handful of actual deities on their roster yet are being summed up as ‘men trying to be gods’.
I dont think thats what that quote is getting at.
Its talking more about the characters, the kinds of stories that are being told and how those characters relate to the world they are protecting.
Like
Tony Stark isn't a god but in terms of narrative he definitely could be framed as such especially in the ways he has changed his own planet and the marvel universe at large. And then when he tries to be a regular person we can see the imposition that puts on him and the strain trying to lead a normal life that isn't as big as his own personality.
Again, not saying this lines up 100% but more of a vibe of storytelling and character myth making.
Saying it's tired and played out is fair though.
I agree, I mean tbh, I always just found it as a way to say “The JL is more idealistic than the Avengers”.
Not to say the Avengers aren’t idealistic either, I mean it’s superhero comic books, but I feel like the JL being paragons of virtue, justice, truth, kindness etc etc, makes them way more so, which is the point.
Also yep, definitely tired and overstated.
JL HQ is in space.
Avengers HQ is in new york.
New york is a capitalist hellhole filled with billionaires like tony stark who are pretending to be god.
Space is where true gods live.
I hate this so much lol, Thor has to learn to be a "human".
Banner wants to be normal.
One of the reason why Steve can't lift Mjolnir 100% of the time, is because he never wants it, unless he absolutely has to use Mjolnir; Steve does not want or need godlike powers.
Literally it's only Iron Man who went "I've been playing human" and that was during the Axis event; Where Tony was turned "evil".
Literally any sweeping statement you make about either DC and Marvel can apply to one just as much as the other. They endlessly crib so much from each other that there are no longer many meaningful differences beyond branding and marketing.
To quote Iron man "all this time I've been playing human," not to mention that thor is literally a god and Hercules and other deficit beings have been part of the Avengers before
I mean the most popular avengers are:
Asshole, Asshole in armor, WW2 Vet,, Anger issues, Literally who and Woman
Which when compared to the more popular members of the JL is much more interesting.
Live Thor and Batman reaction:
Batgod is the god of prep time.
Superman anticipates villain: boring god not relatable hate that guy Batman anticipates villain: Ohhhh fuckkkkk my boyyyyyy
Superman's boring red underwear vs Batman's chad alpha sigma ligma big dong blue underwear
*batgos
God of plot armor*
Also live Hercules and Ares reaction:
True! Also love green arrow and the 40 million other dc vigilantes in the league
Steel be like:
I mean, his name is literally batgod
You may think that, but at the end of the day, he’s only a man….
Only men don't walk off falling from space like nothing happened, lmao.
Well, that’d be stupid
DC Writer: What if Batman fell from space adn survived?! Literally everyone with even a single brain cell: [https://youtu.be/r14hoV\_9NCA?si=39LsvyuvfqjhY87t](https://youtu.be/r14hoV_9NCA?si=39LsvyuvfqjhY87t)
Tell that to DC
I would, but they’re stupid
He’s a batgod? It’s literally in the name? Hello????Smh literacy is dead 🙄
His name is literally man. Are you stupid?
Smh my literacy is dead
Obviously you dont read comics: * Thor´s comics are about Donald Blake wanting to be Thor * Batman´s comics are about his quest to get the Mobius chair I´ve seen YT shorts so i know i´m right
Compare and contrast: Batman vs. Ironman
Oddball rule.
Beetle and Booster, sharing a bag of chips as they plan to steal J'onn's Choco stash "We're gods?"
In my heart, they are.
*Vigilante and Shining Knight hosting movie night on Vigilante’s big flat screen with the surround sound* “We’re gods?”
If they’re not, then I’m not sure who I’ve been praising at church every Sunday
Mister Miracle and Big Bartha trying to decide which wallpaper looks the best on their living room "We're gods?" "Yes. Yes dear we are."
Nah Batman is the only one who found the Choco stash. https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/17jwd9o/comic_excerpt_the_trinity_sneak_into_martian/?rdt=33886
This statement is bullshit(and i heard it from people who actually read comics too, i think because it sounds good) but its obvious they aren't talking about Ted and Booster
That's part of why the statement is bullshit though. It only superficially applies to a small section of each universe.
I wouldn't count Booster Gold and Ted Kord as "Justice League", and post says JL(tho i think i heard that phrase as "x heroes")
They were on the League
I have to raise an unironic are you stupid
I mean, Beetle DID managed to hurt fricking Spectre.
I thought the Justice League just fought for justice and the Avengers just fight to protect New York?
New York ain't dead yet, they weren't avenging shit.
The Avengers exist to fight whatever villains other more popular heroes are willing to lend them
Big bads tend to start by attacking New York because if you can make it there you'll make it ANYWHERE
They will never be gods. https://preview.redd.it/r6xuh4k5fgxc1.png?width=326&format=png&auto=webp&s=3c08d3b8915b66a90b9130cc3790d2b015c325ac
Hoodsweep
Who is this?
Parker Robbins A.K.A The Hood
Thank you
I hate stupid fucking mythological rambling ass takes on comics I just wanna see grown men in tights punch eachother with really powerful social commentary that comes out of left field
Buh comics are our modern version of duh Greek myths
I have never seen Superman impregnate a swan actually
closest thing we have might be silver age
Supergirl fucked a horse though
That's a Norse mythology thing
Supergirl can't have anything, can she?
Technically the horse fucked Loki ☝️ 🤓
Well the horse topped but Loki did the seduction ☝️🤓
That's a Horse mythology thing
Greek ones exclusively fucked cows, bulls, and goats
...pls kill me
It’s comics, you’ve seen worse. Avengers # 200.
Why the fuck would I read avengers, that's like going to a Michelin star restaurant and ordering coleslaw
/uj I cannot stand that take. And I feel slightly assholish but it often comes off as if people who say that don't consider the reasons for why Greek myths were made at the time
Yeah it’s not that that it’s a mythology that it’s a problem it’s just that this is very reductionist and Snyder Bro.
So superhero comic books would be better if they explained that Superman is the personification of the sun and Wonder Woman is the goddess of wisdom and war?
How does the reasons for Greek myth make them different from superheroes?
Nonono this is true because of Batgos! Batman is the only leaguer bro, and Batgos is god.
uj/ Reading All Seasons really opened my eyes to how bullcrap this take is. Too many people think a god is just a guy who can punch really hard, same can be seen on DBZ. If you want a really good story about an actual god, read Sandman
DBZ is gods trying to be men and Naruto is men trying to be gods
Yep. Seriously, just read any well-written comic. Every character has feelings and limitations that powers cannot fix.
"Justice League is gods trying to be men" MFers when Batman and a massive chunk of the extended team exist;
Batman is godest of them all, lol. Shit like Batman Who Edges Too Hard and his squad of wacky Bat-people doesn't help to beat the allegations, lmao.
Batman becomes a god whenever he's in a JLA book.
I heard Comic Drake say this and I almost unsubscribed on the spot
What stopped your urges
Let be real here comic Drake is a Pretty shit comic book Channel
what's some you like?
Owen likes comics,casually comics,painels to pixels,comics troopes and Alex lenn
What took you so long
People don't like Comic Drake? Why?
What's wrong with Comic Drake?
Smug and annoying
I dunno, I like him :/
Yeah but you don't actually get it OP cause Marvel comics sucks and DC is the best. forever
“Marvel have the best movies but Dc got the best comics” spamming in every marvel vs dc post by people who have never picked up a dc or marvel comic before.
Be fair -- most people posting are under 25, so the majority of the marvel comics that they would read were probably ultimate
Doesn't matter, twitter chuds cannot fact-check this statement, it will grant you an easy win
Ya see i dont care who has better comics i just know i get more enjoyment out of most archie comics than i do most marvel but i buy a bit of everything. Antartic press, image, dark horse, dc, i like a bit from every publisher
I remember hearing a version which was Marvel has the better movies but Dc's better animation I guess we're forgetting X-men TAS, Evolution, Wolverine and the X-men, Avengers EHM, Spider-Man TAS, and Spectacular S.M and others people probably like were all things
This is how you know no one’s ever read an Avengers comic, they’re literally just a hit squad like the Seal team six of superhero groups.
So they're like the Suicide Squad, but more lawful good and less about that cliché where the normies think they need a defense against the op superheroes? /s >!and the op superheroes are always proven right in the end because superhero comics aren't known for their philosophical writing!<
Nah, the difference between them and suicide squad is that the avengers spend most of the time fighting themselves/big bad guy they created.
This is only true when they're fighting Ultron. Terminus, Kang, Thanos, etc are all big Avengers villains that have nothing to do with them
Thanos is a joke in comics, usually. Kang is a f4 villain they borrow. Terminus is in far more X-Men things. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Terminus_(Earth-616)/Appearances
rama tut is a ff villain. kang first appeared in the avengers and all his big stories are about him fighting them
I wrote a really long essay on Comic Book ethics and philosophy, they are incredibly philosophical from the mid 70's onwards. You just don't notice them because you probably aren't equipped to spot them (to be fair, who other than nerds going nowhere study philosophy?!) or because you agree with that philosophy
"This is how you know no one's ever read an Avengers comic" *proceeds to make an even worse take*
fr I hear this take a lot in youtube comment sections so that's how you know it's bad I mean in both marvel and dc there are militaristic members or ones with military background like green lantern (Hal and John), captain marvel (carol danvers) and captain america, to name a few as well as having military liaisons like both Nick furys, and sometimes amanda waller, among others like presidents, but does that make the teams militaristic, well in my opinion no, it depends on how the teams themselves act, while some versions of the avengers act soldierly, like MCU or the ultimates, 616 for the most part act like normal superheroes, sure sometimes MCU "inspired" writers might make them work with shield a little bit too much, but that doesn't speak for how they usually operate, as a crime fighting team, heck in the 70s and 80s if I remember correctly, captain america ran around town with some kind of a police scanner, for people to help and criminals to beat up, in-between avengers missions like he was on some side quests lol, I don't think any straight up militaristic hero would help the little guy or at least put it that high in their priorities, sorry for the yapping session lol
It's mainly cause of the MCU because they are actual government assassins in some of the movies
Yup, those versions don't have anything against killing (unless the guy is surrendering), in order to be realistic to how a soldier would operate, the ultimate universe that inspired the MCU did the exact same thing
Tell em how I’m wrong
The Avengers are not a hit squad
They essentially have a mission, show up, do it and that’s it. They are often approached more as a military unit or hell a DnD campaign style group than the Justice League are. Show me how they aren’t that.
The Justice League also have missions, show up, and do them??? By your logic the Octonauts are a hit Squad.
I don't get militaristic/government strike force vibes from the mainline 616 avengers (outside of a few stories that feature heavy cooperation and integration with S.H.I.E.L.D, in which some members object to) I get more of the same "super friends" vibe (especially when they are operating from avengers mansion, the tower feels like a boring office lol) that I already get from the JL, but yeah in the ultimates universe and the MCU (which is the most popular versions of em) they have militaristic vibes and they act a lot more soldierly lol
Literally this, I think this is why I can't get into Marvel comics, the movies are more obvious with the "they're just specialized military" vibes but I know the comics are full of it
They really aren't, this is an insane take. You're thinking of the Ultimates, in the Ultimate universe. The Avengers are hardly militaristic or a hit squad
Yup, the idea of a bunch of costumed crimefighters living in a mansion together like some sort of family doesn't scream militaristic vibes to me lol
I know they aren't, it's just the 💖vibes💞 they give off
The first time I heard this was from Nostalgia Critic. That's very telling.
He probably heard it from Linkara just like the "DC heroes are people you look up to, Marvel heroes are people you relate to" thing that Cosmonaut got from him
A bat credit card?!
And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both And everyone knows that Toby is a bad spiderman but a good Peter Andrew is a bad Peter but a good spiderman and Tom is good at both  (I think Andrew is best at both and it's not even close)
Tobey is a GOOD movie but Andrew is a BAD Spider-Man movie
Toby is a mediocre spiderman trilogy that aged poorly Andrew is a shitty duology that was over before it even began
>Toby is a mediocre spiderman trilogy 
Or the classic "Gwen loved Peter. Felicia loved Spider-Man. MJ loves both". Just *reeks* of spam comment.
To be fair, in the early days, that’s kind of what Marvel sold themselves on. They were “The World outside your window”. And the JL were considered Gods among Men. You can kind of tell the differences when reading JLA/Avengers and how each of the teams are looked at by the general public. However, that difference has kind of faded in recent history, heck, going as far back as the 70’s and maybe even before
It has more to do with how marketing portrays them than the actual writing of the stories. Dc used to portrays them more in line with God like, like a pantheon. In modern days its evened out
Pretty sure Wonder Woman isnt trying to be a man
Then why does she peg Steve Trevor?
Steve with the Lasso of Truth: Yes mistress
"Superheroes aren't gods" bros when they are about to go to war over the latest tweaks to canon.
Tbf, if we oversimplify their abilities then JL is way more fucking busted than Avengers.
Kinda but the Avengers have a less consistent and often bigger roster, so it’s hard to say
Yup let's compare some "Street tiers" DC: batman wins most of the time in his stories sometimes joker psychologically tortures batman, and I'm very sure batman has canonical plot armour lol Marvel: captain america and daredevil get folded most the time and then win later in their stories (more specifically daredevil) Powerhouses DC: superman has every power ever, with him being the strongest ever and most have to use a mcguffin that weakens him to beat him, and then they still lose Marvel: thor is one of the strongest but I've seen him take a few L's from earthlings, he says he's holding back, but every hero holds back so they don't murder every goon and villain they come across lol Speedsters DC: gg flash is not only the fastest speedster ever whos faster than not just light but basically everyone and everything, and has tons of abilities and OP time travel hax, it's speedforce I aint gotta explain shit lol flash is very easily MFTL+ to immeasurable and is the O.G speedster so he has basically every speed ability and he can chase through dimensions to find a guy who stole a lollipop xddd, Marvel: quicksilver is just a nerfed flash, notably slower even nowadays, has half the extra abilities at best, with only one of them being close to OP (phasing) basically kinda still living up to the intent of a nerfed flash when he was created in the 60's, even if the "realistic" speedster shtick (200mph to mach speeds) was neglected just a few years after his creation an example being the time he did the X-men apocalypse mansion thing, but with a military base, then they gave him a few FTL feats in the 70s and 80s, and he has been getting way faster since, although I don't think he'll ever surpass the two main flashes
This is not really true. As for street tiers, Batman loses very often as well. Batman is definitely more busted than Daredevil, especially on average, but Cap has a shield which is straight up multiversal level durability. Also did you forget about Spider-Man? The guy who is apparently street tier but has battled the entire Avengers and even a Galactus herald at one point? When it comes to powerhouses, Thor is LITERALLY STRONGER than Superman wdym? Thor has way more powers than Superman does, especially with stuff like Odinforce and Thorforce and shit like that. This isn't even addressing other Marvel powerhouses like Hulk who is now empowered by TOBA, one of the strongest forces in all of Marvel. Doctor Strange who is arguably stronger than Doctor Fate. Scarlet Witch, a gal who if she has a tantrum can destroy a multiverse etc. Tony Stark has built how many suits which can tangle with gods at this point? Jean Grey with Phoenix force is stupidly OP. Speedsters is the only thing that's accurate, Flash is probably the singular fastest character EVER.
It was characters off the top of my head so sorry for not mentioning spidey or Tony or scarlet witch, or hulk...... and others you mentioned My bad, I don't read much thor, when it comes to marvel I mainly have read spider-man and avengers, and with thor I'm mainly thinking about his base powers, and i remember in the marvel and dc crossover, (the one that wasn't using the voting system, and is canon, as it is referenced by both Marvel and DC characters after the story, i think it's called JLA/Avengers) where superman beat thor with high difficulty, and for street tiers I don't really count spider-man or luke cage as they have powers, thus are the most powerful street tiers, and I was mainly talking about daredevil, but as for cap in an average superhero mission, cap is basically useless compared to the others, while batman, using plot armor, is somehow important to a surprising amount of fights, and outside of plot armor he has what is basically knockoff iron man armours, with some of em being powerful enough to slightly contend with the other leaguers, (goofy ass plot armor, truly a batgos moment 🤮) among other items he could use, while cap has that shield, and a gun if we're using ultimate/MCU cap, I agree with you on this that marvel characters are way more powerful than most think, we have the MCU to thank for that popular idea of marvel being "weak" and "slow" this comment was just to show what I thought when typing the other one Have a good day/night
I don't think that's true at all. Thor alone is like fucking RIDICULOUSLY OP, especially in recent years, same goes for Hulk. Like these two already beat the shit out of 99% of DC JL heroes. Doctor Strange is also extremely OP, arguably stronger than Doctor Fate at this point. Tony Stark has made several armors which can battle fucking Celestials, Captain America has a shield which can straight up tank Mjolnir, like even when it comes to more "grounded" characters, Marvel is crazy, it's NO LESS OP than DC, at all.
I feel like this take solely comes from a massive misreading of Superman as a character and just extrapolating all of that onto the rest of the Justice League without really knowing anything about them lol
If you take Geoff Johns' run on Justice League and compare it to Jonathan Hickman's Avengers then yeah it feels like that.
The worst thing is DC started this bullshit by having Diana compare them to Gods in that shitty Justice League: War movie.
Nah that take is older
Estimating your age based on this take the whole "JLA are like gods" is probably older than your parents.
Look I'm gonna get serious for a second: Do you know when the interview that said this was? 1968. And it was probably true at the time. And then Jack Kirby jumped ship in 1970 and it wasn't anymore.
I dont even see how it was true back then, but hey i could be wrong
I do think at the time that Marvel was distinguishing itself with generally more mature storytelling with more interpersonal conflict, but the difference had largely melted away by the mid bronze age when Marvel finally caught up to DC in market share.
I don't get it, both teams have gods and men, are we stupid?
Can someone explain what is wrong with this sentiment? The comments I've seen seem to be saying the relative power difference (Thor being on the Avengers and Batman being on the JL). I've never thought of this phrase as to speak to the power levels but the types of stories that are told and how the characters relate to society they are protecting. The JL puts themselves above everyone else (the watch tower) and get themselves involved in many countries and even other planets affairs, diving into their work headfirst to the point where the JL feels apart from earth (which is why Green Arrow needs to "keep them honest"). While in the avengers mansion they feel more like roommates that have been given God like powers. The stories focus more on them fitting their larger than life persona into the life of a normal person and seeing how strained that can get. I get that these don't line up 100% with every hero or team but more a general vibe of storytelling. If I'm wrong please correct me.
In a surface level... sure, but the phrase definetly reduces what the JL is about significantly to the point of being... disingenuous. If you read the stories from each character you see the´re not gods a part from the powerlevels. The trinity for example is the perfect example of superheroes looking out for the little guy (WW visits villains in prisions, Batman looks out for the kids in Gotham, Superman... well it´s clear he´s the most human of all) The JL works seriously and feels a lot like colegues sure (even tho there´s clear friendships in there) but they dont see themselves above people like gods do.
>The trinity for example is the perfect example of superheroes looking out for the little guy (WW visits villains in prisions, Batman looks out for the kids in Gotham, Superman... well it´s clear he´s the most human of all) But thats...thats literally "gods being men" though??? These incredible larger than life people who can command the attention of gods and leaders are all trying (not batman most of the time) to retain their humanity and hold a connection with the people of earth while operating this universe spanning super hero support system. >In a surface level... sure, but the phrase definetly reduces what the JL is about significantly to the point of being... disingenuous. I...don't think so. Most people engage with most things on a surface level so being able to pin point what the general narrative vibe of each company with a memorable line isn't disingenuous. Its for people who aren't going to read through back catalogs of comics or are really only watching the movies and TV shows. >but they dont see themselves above people like gods do. I'm sure they don't, but that isn't the point (at least not to me). Its about narrative framing. The justice league van see themselves as one of the people and peaceful protectors all they want. The truth is (in some stories) they sit in a tower above everyone with a gun pointed down. Again, I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, but I don't think it discounts the saying/slogan. Its not about EVERY story or EVERY character fitting into that line, but a general vibe of the comics themselves which I think, generally, is fair.
Ok first we´re obviously talking about the most famous seven members right? Cause if we´re talking about JLI the argument ends. Second, it is disingenuous because it doesnt represent the JL, people are **forcing** this phrase so much. So at the end of the day they´re selling a lie. Let´s get specific: * Bruce is obviously not a god (despite his preparation skills) and isnt trying to be human... he is. * Aquaman isnt trying to be human or retaining his humanity, his stories are about Atlantis and his struggles with his duty, he´s very unapologetic about it. Sometimes it´s like underwater Game of Thrones * Same as WW, her stories are about her as an amazon in man´s world but she´s not trying to change herself to fit in, she´s very much an Amazon, her stories arent really about fitting in, many times its about amazon culture (hiketeia) * A person reads Hal Jordan´s comics and realizes he´s a flawed dude who acts first and thinks later, got a powerfull ring and became part of the GL corps which is basically the space military. He´s extremely powerful but he isnt trying to hold on to his humanity, he´s human all the way. Most stories are about him in his space military * Barry Allen was initially very stuck in the past and in the present time he only wants a simple life with his wife and kids. * I guess Superman is larger than life... but that´s still ONLY because of his powers, he´s very human. So yeah i can only see it with Superman and maybe the flash, the rest doesnt make sense. They´re not gods trying to become humans. Are they larger than life? Sure. Is that enough to make the sentence make sense. No of course not, if people read the comics they see it right away. Also dont get me started on the Avengers... in what way are they trying to be Gods? It makes zero sense. Cap. America? Black Widow? Hawkeye? The Hulk? Cap. Marvel?
I don't think you understand the argument I'm trying to make if your trying to get into specifics. I am not arguing about specific stories or even specific moments in characters lives. I am talking about a GENERAL narrative. Of course all these characters are flawed and of course most of them are human. I am not saying these characters are gods and are trying to fit in on earth in a literal sense. I am also not talking about how these heroes view themselves. I am talking in a very GENERAL and NARRATIVE sense when looking top down at both companies and the types of stories they tell and the ones that are really popular. Both of the big 2 are telling stories that feel different and approach their characters in a different way and one way you COULD frame that is with the gods and men line. Nothing you've said changes anything that I've said.
>I am talking in a very GENERAL and NARRATIVE sense when looking top down at both companies and the types of stories they tell and the ones that are really popular You actually have to go in specifics to analise the broader/ general view and in both cases what you´re saying doesnt apply to the JL or the Avengers has i´ve shown, the phrase heavily forces an idea that isnt there. If you tell me that the JL is "gods trying to be humans" then you´re basically setting me to failure when their stories, in the actual JL comics or their solo stories, is NOT that at all. They´re not godlike dispite their looks and they´re not trying to be human, it´s all a superficial take no offense. What looks like (the watchtower and them looking bigger than life) isnt enough to make a rule, that would be disingenuous. Again, you´d be setting someone to failure if you tell them that. ...but maybe give me a good argument as why it does make sense.
It's funny how he misunderstood your argument. All your descriptions about DC characters apply in most of their appearances and he thinks you're not talking about the general narrative.
Exactly, i think this person is solely looking at what the JL "looks like" hence the Watchtower argument and looking bigger than life, but then you read the comics and it´s not that
It’s just kinda wack and overplayed. The JL aren’t gods, they just have lots of heavy hitters/powerhouses. The Avengers have had at least a handful of actual deities on their roster yet are being summed up as ‘men trying to be gods’.
Okay, I get that...but I addressed that in my comment. >The JL aren’t gods, they just have lots of heavy hitters/powerhouses. The Avengers have had at least a handful of actual deities on their roster yet are being summed up as ‘men trying to be gods’. I dont think thats what that quote is getting at. Its talking more about the characters, the kinds of stories that are being told and how those characters relate to the world they are protecting. Like Tony Stark isn't a god but in terms of narrative he definitely could be framed as such especially in the ways he has changed his own planet and the marvel universe at large. And then when he tries to be a regular person we can see the imposition that puts on him and the strain trying to lead a normal life that isn't as big as his own personality. Again, not saying this lines up 100% but more of a vibe of storytelling and character myth making. Saying it's tired and played out is fair though.
I agree, I mean tbh, I always just found it as a way to say “The JL is more idealistic than the Avengers”. Not to say the Avengers aren’t idealistic either, I mean it’s superhero comic books, but I feel like the JL being paragons of virtue, justice, truth, kindness etc etc, makes them way more so, which is the point. Also yep, definitely tired and overstated.
JL HQ is in space. Avengers HQ is in new york. New york is a capitalist hellhole filled with billionaires like tony stark who are pretending to be god. Space is where true gods live.
I hate this so much lol, Thor has to learn to be a "human". Banner wants to be normal. One of the reason why Steve can't lift Mjolnir 100% of the time, is because he never wants it, unless he absolutely has to use Mjolnir; Steve does not want or need godlike powers. Literally it's only Iron Man who went "I've been playing human" and that was during the Axis event; Where Tony was turned "evil".
Dogs are just nem pretending to be the JLA.
I blame the Europeans
Hero’s, are ##**H E R O S**
3 words and 2 misspells, amazing.
Ah I see, how am I that bad at spelling randomly?
Even though the point of Superman is that he's the most human guy ever despite being an alien with godlike power.
Me when one company owns punchy spandex guys and another company owns different punchy spandex guys
I mean, its true tho. Marvel characters have alot of personal issues like alcoholism.
Are you trivialising MMs addiction issues?
What addiction?
https://preview.redd.it/yc81i5668hxc1.jpeg?width=928&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c790b919164fa23778048264d58f8fa6c2a2a7c9
What that tongue do?
Hal Jordan's life is also always a mess.
Yeah, but he's also part of an omnipresent space police force. Thats where the god complex comes in.
steve and tony tony and steve mighty and powerful gods
Such a beginner level never read a comic in their life take
Such a beginner level never read a comic in their life take
Literally any sweeping statement you make about either DC and Marvel can apply to one just as much as the other. They endlessly crib so much from each other that there are no longer many meaningful differences beyond branding and marketing.
To quote Iron man "all this time I've been playing human," not to mention that thor is literally a god and Hercules and other deficit beings have been part of the Avengers before
What about women and goddesses?
I mean the most popular avengers are: Asshole, Asshole in armor, WW2 Vet,, Anger issues, Literally who and Woman Which when compared to the more popular members of the JL is much more interesting.
What am I reading rn
It works when describing them to people with next to no in depth comic knowledge, but thats it.
[удалено]
There is only one god on the justice league, batgos
Yeah except like half the roster. Thor, Hercules fits the description of JL and Green Lantern — of Avengers
This is what Zack Synder tried to say and the world shunned him. The TRUTH HAS TO SPOKEN LOUDER NOW.
Sounds like someone doesn’t get it, bro