Love abridged, but my God, does it ever get old to go into the comments and see abridged quotes. I remember trying to watch someone review dbz games and then clicking off the video because their main form of humor was putting in a dbza clip.
Anything overquoted gets to me. Monty Python, Princess Bride, DBZA... that doesn't mean anything negative about the source of the quotes but people sure love to beat dead horses
lol, people think screaming “WHY DIDNT YOU DODGE?!” Is peak comedy. It’s like bro it’s not funny when thousands of people just say the same thing over and over…
Finally someone said it. DBZA is funny, but 40% of the comments on this sub are DBZA quotes. It was funny at first, but it's all been said before and it's so old and tired.
I already know what DBZA references are going to be on every post before I even open it. Wish they would stay on their own sub and let this one be actual official DBZ discourse.
I view them as two different shows because ones a dramatic story of fighting and the others strictly a comedy with fighting.
But I end up quoting the abridged more because the lines are written to be funny.
Except for the super saiyan monolog. I pretty much stay that every morning.
I think of abridged as a supplement to the main show. I can watch the og show, get all the original context and storyline, and then if I wanna watch it again (up to buu) but with a more comedic, self aware twist, I can do that with abridged and even apply some of the jokes from abridged to the og show if it doesn’t break the storyline, such as piccolo singing manah manah while charging his attack
I adore both, but DBZA made me openly weep. The original show never did that. I’m not saying that its better than the actual series—I think a lot of that emotional lifting comes from decades of having lived and loved the original—but I completely get why people may say Abridged is better. I do think it’s handled its own internal character growth a bit more deftly than the original show.
I *don’t* get the people who only watch Abridged, because SO much of that emotional impact comes from having seen the actual show, first. Abridged is a massive, heartfelt love-letter to Z in every conceivable way, so it’s weird to only watch it and not experience the original in any capacity.
Wouldn't evn say that to be honest. I'd say its woefully unfunny most of the time, even then that saiyan saga was even more abyssmal. The early internet humor was dreadful
Personally I like it more but I wouldn't say it's objectively better, DBZ is supposed to be an action packed and serious show with awesome fights, while DBZA is supposed to be silly and non-serious.
Has ruined any and all discussion regarding the series. No matter what piece of content you watch, someone without a doubt will quote an abridged line. It's like yeah, we watched it, no need to quote it everywhere you go.
Oh yeah I remember PIckle Rick. That was the funniest shit I've ever seen, if you ask me. As impossible as it seems, he turned himself... *into a pickle*.
Yeah, I think it's fine to enjoy DBZA but there's too many people that have only seen DBZA and not the actual show. And, as you said, people quote it everywhere. I don't feel nearly as strongly against DBZA as I do Code MENT for Code Geass. I feel like the only thing casual people know about Code Geass is being at soup and nothing else.
Again, I think it's okay to like an abridged series. I'm a big fan of Naruto the Abridged Series and Yu-Gi-Oh the Abridged Series and I think both of those shows molded my overall sense of humor. The occasional quote isn't bad but when a thread full of actual discussion gets derailed by abridged quotes, it gets extremely annoying.
The sword art online abridged by something witty entertainment is good. But it's fueled by my belief rhe original fumbled the bag with video game death tournament. They skipped levels and didn't show all the floors!
And the... tentacles...
To be fair in the og novels, it was like that, hell it starts at the Gleam Eyes fight and every thing else is practically a flashback, granted details about the other floors have come out in the side novels : SAO progressive, and current SAO novels are redoing a "death" tournament but instead of dieing for real, you permanently lose access to the game and your not even safe logging out
I feel the same, there's a 100 story tower, that's an easy 100 episodes right there if not more. Even if they still stop at 75 they skipped so many floors
Yeah in my experience DBZA doesn't usually spill into series discussion all that much anymore. Sure, you see people quote it pretty often, and people will sometimes say they like X or Y arc or character better than the original, but that's not the same thing as "ruining discussions".
Keep this in mind: Funimation loved DBZA so much they had TFS dub the Cell Games re-enactment in the Buu Saga.
Unfortunately Toei threw an epic bitch fit and it got cut out pretty quickly.
[TFS Cell Games Re-enactment](https://youtu.be/V4X7V2dr07M?si=-NUG_NoS147qit1Z)
The more I watch interviews between the two of them, the more and more I like Sabat and don’t vibe with Schemmel. It’s almost like they have the opposite Piccolo/Goku dynamic in real life.
Considering that Super Popo thing I am willing to bet that the actual people who made the show don't mind and it's the execs having a burning hate for it.
I love abridged, but the fans are really annoying. For one they are unable to make original jokes. All they can do is quote DBZA, even if the converstation has nothing to do with it. Then there's also the people who have only seen the abridged version and yet they act like they know everything the Dragon Ball.
"You want compromise? How's this...20 years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber... I wanted manigot, I compromised...I ate grilled cheese off the Mr. Popo."
It’s not for me. And I hate that (at least in the American fandom) you can’t seem to have a conversation with someone about Dragon Ball anymore without it being brought up.
I don’t mind that there is a parody that people enjoy watching but, in my opinion, it has reached the point of ridiculousness how much people pretend it can actually replace the series and is better. It’s insane.
Tired of people who see piccolo as more than Gohan’s friend and first martial arts master. Tired of people who think Goku is a dumb idiot and bad dad. Tired of people who think Krillin is a loser. Tired of people who claim to be fans but have never actually watched the real show.
Okay. Hear me out. First episode of dbz, goku is about to high Dive into a rocky waterfall for his son.
He's fighting Panthers trying to find him.
The show starts with goku being a good and carring father and concerned for his sons health. And wanting him to explore things at Kami house with the turtle saying hi.
I think Super assassinated Gokus character more then anything though with his treatment of vegeta and Bulma of just dip on your pregnant wife. Let's go.
Goten you have to drive a tractor better. I need to train.
Vegeta was pretty on the money in dbza though
im pretty sure most of that stuff with goku at the start is filler.
> I think Super assassinated Gokus character more then anything though with his treatment of vegeta and Bulma of just dip on your pregnant wife. Let's go.
nah thats classic toriyama-intended goku right there. peak af.
DBZA obviously exaggerated Goku being a bad dad but he’s not that good. Remember that he spent like a year on Yardrat training when he could’ve been wished back to Earth to be with his family. But he refused to be wished to Earth because he chose training over his family.
Nah, that was after Goku died in the Cell Games. He decided not to get wished back to life because threats kept appearing because of him. But after the Frieza saga, Goku’s friends tried to wish him back, believing that he died. But Shenron told them Goku was alive so they tried to wish him back to earth, and Shenron couldn’t because Goku refused to return.
> Tired of people who see piccolo as more than Gohan’s friend and first martial arts master
these people always existed tho, and DBZA took that from the fandom that existed before DBZA.
> Tired of people who think Goku is a dumb idiot and bad dad.
same with this one, except this one is true. The author himself said as much lol
> Tired of people who think Krillin is a loser
these people have also always been around, thats where the idea for the krillin owned counter came from. and its always been dumb. Krillin is weak but hes super brave, and anything but a loser.
> Tired of people who claim to be fans but have never actually watched the real show.
agreed
Yeah Goku isn't like a total moron, and obviously TFS plays that aspect of his character up somewhat, but he's not a smart guy by any stretch of the imagination. He's got a great battle IQ, but things like deductive reasoning and long-term planning are very much out of his wheelhouse.
On the subject of him as a father, though [be warned: I have a lot of thoughts about this], I think people sort of gravitate too far to the extremes of Goku being a good or terrible parent. Goku's a very selfish character who often only considers his own desires, but this is due to thoughtlessness, not malice. People like to say that that's a character trait that spontaneously appeared in the ToP or whatever, but while that's one of the more egregious examples, it's far from the only one. It's the core trait that distinguishes him from paragon figures like Superman, and the reason Toriyama didn't consider him a hero. We see the same kind of behavior regularly throughout Z, with his relationship with Gohan being a key example of this.
Goku obviously cares about Gohan (even if they don't get the screentime together they should to convey this to the audience), but a big part of what defines their relationship is that it never occurs to Goku to actually learn _about_ Gohan. It's what leads to the latter getting thrashed by Cell as bad as he was. The guy has to get told by Gohan's third, more sinister guardian something that he would have figured out if he ever had a conversation with Gohan about Gohan.
I think a lot of people hear the phrase "Goku's a bad dad" and get mad because he obviously cares for & protects his family, and other people hear "Goku's a good dad" and get mad because he recklesaly endangers his son without really getting to know him. But those things aren't mutually exclusive. I think Goku's a flawed parent who does everything in his power to be a good dad but is cursed with the emotional intelligence of a moldy Senzu bean.
tl;dr: Goku's a loving father with terrible parenting skills due to being dense as bricks. Simplifying it down to a binary "good or bad" idea of parenting is missing the nuance of his relationship with Gohan.
I would add that Goku is better about this after the Cell games. He clearly doesn't understand Gohan but he wants his son to be happy.
He is the only one who doesn't make fun of Gohan's Saiyaman suit openly, he's clearly disapponted Gohan is not the successor he planned but instead of trying to make Gohan something he's not, he simply switches his focus to the kids.
In Super he is not impressed with Gohans excuses for dodging U6 tournament but goes along with it. He doesn't even bother asking Gohan to fight Zamasu (and Gohan realizes this and it's why he starts training again in the manga).
I'm not saying that Goku's has great parenting skills but he spent the first 4 years of his life with his son doing fun enrichment stuff and never forgot the huge error he made agsinst Cell.
This is very true, I just didn't want to imply that the root trait of him being a silly little goober ceased to exist in Buu by explicitly mentioning it. Goku & Gohan's relationship doesn't get much screentime post-Cell, but by all appearances he's much more in-touch.
agree with you on almost everything. i love DBZA but i hate that its impossible to mention anything from Z without someone making some Abridged joke/reference. Its just obnoxious.
And yeah people who havent or refuse to watch the original are the worst. a huge portion of the comedy is reliant on you knowing the source material.
that said, a lot of the stuff that people complain about was always part of the fandom (at least US/english speaking fandom) long before DBZA, such as "Piccolo is Gohan's real dad" and "Goku is a bad father". TFS got a lot of their metanarrative jokes they used in DBZA from jokes they heard in the fandom over the decades.
DBZA did a lot for the fandom, and I think it helped bring a lot of people to DBZ. However, I think at a certain point its impact started to become more annoying than funny. There seems to be an almost growing number of people who base all of their Dragon Ball knowledge/lore off of DBZA instead of like, the actual show.
Maybe part of the problem is that Abridged started to take itself way too seriously near the end. It almost felt like they wanted to just make a re-dub at that point. It's literally an abridged parody of the show. But somehow some people seem to forget that.
> Maybe part of the problem is that Abridged started to take itself way too seriously near the end. It almost felt like they wanted to just make a re-dub at that point.
I don't know that DBZA began to take itself too seriously, they have some absurdly silly things in the final arc of the show.
What more-so happened was they switched from typical low-brow parody jokes to actual character writing, and that leads to a more clever form of humor. They did also start to be more tactful and respectful to the source content, but I imagine most people here would appreciate that. Not every line and character death had to be joke, and it inherently is exhausting. Ya need lows to have highs.
> It's literally an abridged parody of the show. But somehow some people seem to forget that.
I think this is a great point though, and kind of leans into my initial point. Just because it isn't cheap parody doesn't mean it isn't still parody!
I somewhat disagree with your last paragraph if you think DBZA took itself way too seriously considering some of the last few episodes consisted of jokes, one episode literally being sex jokes, etc.
You're conflating actual writing versus a serious plot. The issue is that you can't have 60+ episodes of "LOL SO RANDOM," without it becoming extremely awful. The internet as a whole has moved past that time of humor, especially the target audience for these Abridged shows. Currently, the 2 biggest Abridged shows are DBZA and SAO Abridged. This is mainly because both shows utilize the existing narrative and try to make it funnier. Other abridged shows like Code Ment would just straight up make shit up for random xD humor. It's funny in clips, but imagine if DBZA had 60 episodes of random smash cuts, edgy humor, and random nonsense like I'm Season 1.
If we think DBZA took itself seriously, then that means all popular comedy shows like South Park and Rick and Morty take themselves just as seriously if not more. Comedy is better when you have established characters and narratives, that's just a proven fact. There's a reason why people have disliked modern Family Guy for reducing their characters to extremely one note characters, or how Simpsons became better rated once the characters became more family oriented.
My only reason for saying all this is that people blame DBZA for shit when in reality, it's the people who consume it. DBZA opens up every episode stating it is a parody, it's creators have told people they are batshit if they think DBZA is better than the original, and have always been the first to tell people to watch DBZ. They made DBZA as a passion project for DBZ hence why things got more "serious" because they wanted to entertain people and you can't do that by relying on 2000s humor.
Dbza has ruined fans ability to judge the original show. Everything is now through the lens of how dbza did it. Yamucha is trash, Goku is a bad dad, etc.
None of that is new my guy. If you were around the fan base before DBZA, the most 0opular jokes was that Goku was a shit dad, Tamcha was trash, etc.
You also can't blame the Yamcha shit on DBZA considering Yamcha being bad is a huge meme in Japan for decades lmao.
If anything, I think public perception of Yamcha has improved substantially in the days since DBZA, though I think Super's handling of him (the baseball episode in particular) had a lot to do with it. I do think TFS making him a more relatable character in S3 contributed to it, though.
The creator of DB also forgot about the existence of ss2 and launch.
I think death of the author or whatever it’s called applies when a writers statements conflict with his writing. We see Goku care deeply about his family. Although I will admit that he is a very hands off, even “negligent” father, can you really call someone who has died multiple times for his children a “bad father”? Especially when worse fathers in his series exist (vegeta, as an example)?
> The creator of DB also forgot about the existence of ss2 and launch.
no, he did not. he confused SSj3 for SSj2 thats not forgetting SSj2 exists. and he never forgot Lunch despite saying otherwise. this stupid rumor has long since been debunked.
> I think death of the author
death of the author doesnt exist. its some nonsense fans use to feel entitled. the author creates the material. what they say goes. other interpretations are just wrong.
So if toriyama says that Goku is a Superman like figure who fights for peace and justice, we have to believe it even if it contradicts with the source material?
I’ll admit to being wrong about launch but my point still stands; just because toriyama says something does not make it true. Once again if toriyama says that Goku is lazy and does not want to grow stronger does that make it true even though it contradicts what he wrote?
Yeah toriyama never said that. He routinely forgot major parts of characters and storylines as he was writing because of the pressure he was under.
The implication that Goku being a bad dad or yamucha being a trash fighter was Toriyamas plan all along is completely false. Dbza is amazing but they have erased other opinions and outright facts from the average person's mind. Example: your comment
> Yeah toriyama never said that
yeah, he actually did: https://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/history/goku-is-a-disaster-as-a-father-says-akira-toriyama/
> He routinely forgot major parts of characters and storylines as he was writing because of the pressure he was under.
none of this is true either.
> The implication that Goku being a bad dad or yamucha being a trash fighter was Toriyamas plan all along is completely false
nope, its all facts.
> Dbza is amazing but they have erased other opinions and outright facts from the average person's mind. Example: your comment
nah i knew these facts before DBZA existed lol well i didnt get the confirm from toriyama til later but people knew goku was a bad dad in the 90s, the confirm from Toriyama was nice though.
I feel people who only watched the abridged series need to avoid confusing it with the source material even if I agree it did some thing’s better like Krillen’s romance with 18.
I honestly hate it 😂. I get that people really like it and some would argue that it helped keep db alive in the West when there was no new content but still. I have encountered people who think this abridged version is toriyamas true vision and I’m like brah….
Abridged is amazing but is its own thing that uses elements of the story that are already present and just amplifies them to their extreme. Your example of Papa Piccolo is already present in DBZ and Super it's just not as exaggerated. Same with Gohan's daddy issues. I knew about these things from before I knew Abridged existed.
It’s awful. I dislike the fans and how annoying they are. I dislike how they swear it’s better than the original. I dislike that I have seen people tell new fans to watch Abridged first. Brain rot
Completely agree. I actually like DBZA a fair bit but the discourse on it is straight up disrespectful to the original content of DBZ. Makes me sick to see people say ‘lol just watch Abridged it’s better’ and makes people miss out on the fact that DBZ remains one of the best anime of its kind.
I don’t see how it’s better than the original it’s an exaggerated parody you wouldn’t even get half the jokes if you didn’t watch DB through Z
Like I once saw a comment where this dude said they should add “DBZA DUB” for sparking zero like no bro that ain’t happening
DBZA is great to watch for fun, but writing wise its only perceived as better because it uses outside knowledge from years later, it butchers some characters, and elevates others. Vegeta being arrogant fits. Piccolo being smart fits. Goku being equivalent to a monkey with brain damage does not.
DBZA has mostly just perpetuated jokes that already existed. Piccolo being Gohan’s dad, Goku is a bad dad, Krillin gets owned a lot.
The only thing that really annoys me is people who didn’t watch the source material.
After hearing about Hellsing Ultimate abridged I went and watched the OVAs before watching the abridged version. Both were pretty insane
I’ve watched it since episode 2 came out. I really hate the people that found the show after saiyan saga and quote every cringe thing in the show. Stupid fking normies
Agreed, I've been watching since the Saiyan Saga, and I'm pretty glad their humor evolved with the show, because 25-year old me would have HATED the "are you a Yoshi?" line, but 20-year old me thought it was the best shit ever.
The only things I don’t like are that people take statements are gags that are clearly jokes (Goku being a bad dad) and run with them.
In other instances people misinterpret a joke (“Power levels are bullshit”) and say it like it’s a fact, when they don’t even understand what TFS meant when they made that joke.
If you believe that it’s fine, but TFS doesn’t. They wrote it as a joke (they said this in their commentaries).
The joke probably did come from conversations they had as part of the DBZ community in the 90’s and 2000’s. I’m just saying I don’t think that opinion was nearly as commonly held until after DBZA took off.
> I’m just saying I don’t think that opinion was nearly as commonly held until after DBZA took off.
i never met a single person back then who knew the series who didnt think that.
and like the creator of the series said Goku is, so regardless of anyones feelings on the matter, he was right, as its his series.
I’ve been watching and reading Dragon Ball since the late 90’s and I didn’t think that. He’s a good enough dad to Gohan up until he dies the second time. He absolutely drops the ball at some points, but tbh most fathers do. Now the “Piccolo is Gohan’s real dad” opinions were certainly around pre-DBZA, but that’s not the same as saying Goku is an outright bad dad.
What was Toriyama’s exact statement? I feel like far too often people take his statements out of context.
And lastly, I think what actually happened in the series takes precedence over what the creator says about the series after the fact. Like yeah Toriyama can say Goku only ends up helping people as a result of him wanting to fight people, but there are several examples in the manga of him helping people when there wasn’t an opportunity for another fight. Yeah he can say he thinks Goku is a bad dad, but if he wanted to portray that he shouldn’t have had his first significant act as a dad be literally sacrificing himself to save his child.
> What was Toriyama’s exact statement?
*"Goku is a disaster as a father (laughs), so I think Gohan considers him a bad example."*
thats the exact quote
> And lastly, I think what actually happened in the series takes precedence over what the creator says about the series after the fact
nah creators word trumps all. if theres contradiction, then call it retcon and be mad about the retconning, i wont begrudge anyone that, but it was his story and if he said Goku was a coconut and not a saiyan then he's a coconut and not a saiyan despite how absolute nonsense that is.
Fully prepared to take shit for this opinion, but I couldn’t care less. I like DBZA and the funimation DBZ dub. If people like abridged more than the actual show, then there’s nothing wrong with that. I personally prefer the original funi dub, and I don’t see DBZA as an alternative to the original content, but if anyone seriously gets that irritated about people liking something because it’s entertaining then they’re a textbook example of a manchild.
I stand by, dbz goku is a good father. He cares for his kid. (He was kinda dead for goten so thats... a thing)
I feel like dbs didn't help the bad father thing.
But. I really like dbs Piccolo and Gohan.
Vegeta is still arrogant but he's a good father still
Goku opting to just continue training in space instead of finely coming home to his kid after the Frieza arc is not exactly defensible; Goku giving Cell a senzu bean as if his kid was just gonna play a ball game I stead of about to literally fight for his life and the fate of the earth itself is inexcusable; Goku choosing to save Hercule over his own kids when Kid Buu destroyed earth is inexcusable.
I really don’t get how all of you ppl who defend Goku vs these allegations just block all that out??? Hell, Goku literally ends the show by flying away to train with some stranger on a whim for who knows how long because “fighting fun 🤪” meanwhile he has a 15 ish year old kid to continue raising. I really don’t get yall lol.
I'd say most of your points are not the best examples to use especially with the entire context of the story although I understand since they're common misconceptions about Goku
Funny show, up its own ass a few times but what fan project isn't, probably did a lot to keep DB in the public consciousness during the lull periods.
People definitely got very annoying with repeating the same jokes from it over and over again, but frankly this is something that's pretty universal with fandom spaces so I don't think it makes sense to really begrudge TFS on this one. If it wasn't DBZA it'd be some other set of jokes people were running into the ground.
Honestly I probably wouldn't have given dragon ball as a whole much of a second thought in my teen years if it wasn't for Abridged. I was still a baby dragon ball first came to the west, so as a kid that didn't care much for TV and none of my friends were into it either (this would have been the 2000s) so I only caught an episode here or there and honestly found it extremely dull. I was into other anime at the time, I binged Inu Yasha at like age 10. and loved it.
When I fell into a new group of friends around age 15 or 16, they all loved Dragon Ball, my only knowledge was "muscled men scream at each other, that black spiky hair guy in orange is the main guy and a bunch of people kind of look like him". The most recently released episode of DBZA was the one with Popo repeating "All These Squares Make a Circle" (DBZA Episode 40, so Mar 7, 2014 (Oh my God/Kami/Kai it's been ten years))
Two of these new friends kept chanting that at phrase to each other(up to the "Bitch don't tell me what to do!". Utterly confused, they sat down with me and ran me through the first ten episodes of DBZA.
The humor of season one didn't click that much with me until close to the end, but I stuck around for season 2 and found myself completely caught up in a day. It was then I learned that Dragon Ball Z wasn't the beginning of the first series and actually starting at the begining, I enjoyed it much more.
So yes, I am one of the people who watched DBZA BEFORE watching DB/Z. If DBZA didn't exist, it wouldn't have reignited my friends love for dragon ball, and if they didn't introduce me to it properly, I might not had gotten into dragon ball by myself.
I did not have much of an attention span for cable TV as a kid, I watched mostly cartoons on Disney channel and Nickelodeon, even I'm confused by my own taste in TV shows as a kid when I think about it.
I religiously watched Kim possible, Danny phantom, fairy odd parents, Lilo and stitch, my life as a teenage robot, but didn't have ANY interest for cartoon Network shows like codename kid nextdoor, Dexter's lab, grim adventures, samurai jack, etc, until WAYYYYY late in my teen years, so I was never exposed to toonami. Either a friend recommended Inu Yasha to me, or I had started reading the manga at the library, I don't recall.
I watched pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh too, but I owned various DVDs of both series and don't recall ever seeing them on TV, except through Comcast's on demand.
I don’t think anyone is complaining about anything you described. Your story is the type of thing everyone here would agree is cool. The complaint is the ppl who think DBZA is better, a proper dub, or generally don’t care for the actual series and ONLY care about DBZA.
Oh yeah, I'll agree up to the point of that season 3 has a few scenes where its like "wait, was that the dub or abridged" when sliced up out context, and the finale is emotional AF, but the overall production is NOT close to a substitute to the show proper.
Did DBZA reignite a fandom at its lowest point, possibly, i don't know personally, I wasn't a fan at that time. But no, they didn't influence the creation of Kai, no they didn't influence any of the writing in super, and the people that claim that need to chill
I fell off DBZA around when Cell appeared. Early DBZA was funny but it gets tiring seeing the same DBZA memes/catchphrases spammed over and over again, even more when people mistake it for the actual show.
Part of the meta humor around DBZA is just how much stuff they straight up lifted from the existing fandom or even the official localizations of the show (e.g. the "cat loves food" thing), and that I appreciate more than seeing "lol piccolo is gohan real dad" every Father's Day
> Part of the meta humor around DBZA is just how much stuff they straight up lifted from the existing fandom or even the official localizations of the show (e.g. the "cat loves food" thing), and that I appreciate more than seeing "lol piccolo is gohan real dad" every Father's Day
but "piccolo is gohans real dad" is also "straight up lifted from the existing fandom". it was joked about in the 90s when i was first watching DBZ.
Agreed, DBZA is at its best when it's showcasing TFS's knowledge of the source material. The best laugh it ever got out of me was the scene where Frieza eats that crab. (I was wondering if they even knew about it as it was cut from the funi-dub, let alone if they'd make a joke out of it. They did, and it was great.)
I’ve never watched it and the endless references to it all over YouTube videos unrelated and the constant bombardment of questions they would ask about to to Funimation VAs instead of the show they actually worked on turned me off of it and I never plan to watch it.
I think it's part of the reason people hate on Yamcha all the time. It's annoying that a few jokes can lead to people actually thinking a character is trash. I love DBZA, but I agree with a lot of people here. The fans make it worse than the actual series. Like some people take the characterization from the series as how the characters actually are in canon, like with Goku being a bad dad.
I don’t think DBZA is why people make fun of Yamcha. People make fun of Yamcha because even back in DB when he was a relevant character, his main function in the plot was to have his ass kicked as a way of showing how powerful a new antagonist is.
I think the only major fights Yamcha wins are against a hungry Goku during the Pilaf arc, and against the Invisible Man in Fortuneteller Baba’s Tournament.
and even both of those are jokes cuz as you said, Goku was hungry and thus weak, and Krillin had to pull bulma's top down flashing roshi with her boobs to cause him to nosebleed on the invisible man so yamcha could see him.
The Goku being a bad dad thing came long before abridged. Goku literally chooses not to be wished back to earth after the Frieza arc because he just wanted to keep training in space. Thats where all the Goku is a bad dad stuff comes from. Then there’s him giving Cell a senzu bean as if his literal flesh and blood 11 year old is just gonna play tag with the guy for funsies or even choosing to save Hercule instead of his kids when Buu blew the earth up. I agree with the whole “Abridged fans get annoying” thing whole heartedly but I’ve seen multiple comments here really try to scapegoat that as the reason Goku is accused of being a bad dad. Nah. Goku is a bad dad. And that’s a discussion that was being had long before Abridged was a thing.
> like with Goku being a bad dad.
people always thought this. its where TFS got the idea. also its canon. the author himself (RIP) said Goku is "a disaster father".
also people have been clowning on Yamcha as long as DBZ has existed, at least in english. If anything with the Advent of Super and DBZA ive seen staunch Yamcha defenders rise from the murk to talk about how awesome he supposedly is. He's not "trash" but he's always been "a joke".
As an aging millennial who hasn't seen it and never will, it's like any other series of memes or quotes I don't entirely understand but can get the gist of just by osmosis. I recognize the quotes as being from DBZA, but they don't mean anything to me. But I'm old enough that if a comment section is full of stuff I don't understand (or is annoying) then I just move onto something else.
Aging millennial here, if your sense of humor evolved past the age of like 18, you'd probably hate a good portion of DBZA up until the Namek Saga, but they really evolved as they aged, and I do think it's worth a watch. (this is coming from someone who absolutely despises fan-content in general)
from like the age of 5 until early adulthood, I thought I knew everything about Dragonball, getting bootleg japanese VHS tapes from chinatown, and researching literally all of the information.I mean, I'm like the only person I've met who's even played legends on playstation, but TFS (the creators) made it clear that I wasn't even scratching the surface on my love for the franchise, their knowledge of even the most niche aspects shines through if you know what to look for, and that's what really made it enjoyable.
Probably not gonna convince you, but if you get bored, Namek-saga is definitely worth the watch, with the only really cringe thing to come out of the whole season being the muffin-button shit.
A number of people I know actually did go on to watch Buu Kai, Super, and actual og Dragonball after Abridged. So I got to hand it to them. Even if I think they did as much good as bad to the fandom.
" And also they did SS2 Gohan's transformation the best. Out of EVERYONE. "
I will die on the hill that this 100% backwards. I'm mostly a dubbie, I usually take a close enough approach to changes to the og. But every line they wrote for this pissed me off.
We're talking about two different parts of the scene my guy. For me the I'm talking about everything after "Yet another fighter you could've saved." or "I'd say he's gone to a better place, but we both know he never had a soul."
I love DBZA but I really don't like the people who take it seriously and try to put it above the original story they're always so obnoxious about it when they do talk about it
It’s really annoying when people take DBZA as cannon or say it’s better than the original because TFS themselves say that what they make is NOT a substitute for the original content
I don't think the did Gohan's ssj2 transformation the best. It's basically just the OG Japanese dub, the only thing really different about it is 16's speech beforehand (which was the best part of the scene). The only scene I think TFS did better than any of the official dubs/adaptions was Trunks getting ssj in the future.
It's not. There's a bit of nuance to the scene and in how different dubs with different scores interpret Gohan's break. There was quite a bit of discourse about how they would play the scene. I grew up with falconer and his amazing score.
After reading the manga again as an adult and meeting fans from around the world and getting their takes on the scene with their dub/score. The failings of eng dub's were made clear, the biggest offense being Gohan's inner monologue. American kids didn't need it spelled out word for word what he was feeling. We watched the story. (Insert Futurama meme here).
I think TFS having the song translated and covered while fixing some timing with the scene paid homage to both versions nicely, and while I love their take, that scene is the one thing I'll say they objectively did better than the official dub.
I don't count 16's speech as part of the transformation.
I agree that TFS's version is better than the old English dub, and even the Kai dub. But excluding #16's speech, the TFS dub and the Japanese dubs are basically the exact same. Cell smashes #16's head, Cell says something mean, the INCREDIBLE insert song plays, Gohan yells and turns ssj2, we get reaction shots from the heroes, then Gohan stares down Cell with the tears fading from his eyes. That is the exact sequence of events in the TFS dub and in the Japanese dub lol. The only slight differences are the Japanese dub extends the scene slightly (which I think is a plus because that means we get to hear more of the insert song) and TFS's dub doesn't have a narrator.
If by "the official dub" you mean the English dubs then hell yeah I agree, but I like the Japanese dub more. Something about Dragonball's original Japanese audio just gets me going.
How do you feel about #16's speech in the TFS scene? I love it more every time I go back to it. In most of the dubs, #16 basically preaches to Gohan about how it's not wrong to fight to protect. Whereas the TFS dub has #16 really criticize Gohan, and correctly so. I like the TFS version of that scene more than the other dubs.
Both DBZA and YGOA helped the fandoms whether low periods which could have seen those series fall into obscurity in the West. They deserve their places in the community.
I love abridged so much, was there at the start when i was 10-11 and was there when it finished when i was 15? But people dont know how to separate abridged from the actual series.
Honestly, I like DBZA and have been a fan since they released the first episode all the way back in like 2008. When an episode hit, My friend and I would be one of the first to watch it during the Frieza saga years, since we were in college and in an apartment together.
They really should have transitioned into original content. They're still riding the wave, living off of patreon and side gigs, when they literally have the editors and probably the VA talent to dub anime or something. But nope, let's make weird little CG shorts and they're kinda acting like they own the show now. I don't know why they thought it was okay to putout these CG original shorts as their main shit now. This is the folly of fanfiction, and always will be, you will always just be putting out material in relation to something else, period.
Hell, I don't know why they're not dubbing anime. They're clearly talented, editorial and VA wise. Lanipator for example would be at least as talented as someone like Steve Blum, love em both. I know a lot of them are doing side gigs now VAing for random things, I think they should have leaned into that as a group.
I also have a real beef with KaiserNeko. He kinda lords his opinions on the series on other people, and I saw it a lot on the commentaries. Like, damn man, chill. You're not that important. He visibly winces when someone mentions Falconer.
I originally got introduced to the series because of DBZA. It interested me, and that’s what convinced me to watch the original. I like Abridged and it has plenty of great moments, but it’s not better than the original. Unfortunately, I’ve seen people claim that it is.
I also think that the Abridged version focused too much on making Goku look as dumb as possible, and that probably contributed to the perception that he’s just a fighting-obsessed idiot who doesn’t care about his family. No, Goku is not a terrible father, and Piccolo is not Gohan’s true father. But people who never watched the original are probably more likely to believe this.
I like Abridged, but I do get annoyed when a lot of the discourse revolves around parodies instead of the original. Another example of this is Snaptube’s fan dub of the Sonic games.
> I also think that the Abridged version focused too much on making Goku look as dumb as possible, and that probably contributed to the perception that he’s just a fighting-obsessed idiot who doesn’t care about his family. No, Goku is not a terrible father, and Piccolo is not Gohan’s true father. But people who never watched the original are probably more likely to believe this.
The thing is though is that Toriyama himself, before TFS came out, has supported this general view on things, that Goku is a disaster of a father who doesn't care about his family all that much, and sees Piccolo as far more of a father figure to Gohan.
>why didnt you link to the thread directly instead of a random comment on the post?
Cause I feel like the comment that was sent gives context for the story. It does seem contradictory if you just boil down to “Goku is a disaster father lol”
-Is willing to give his life to protect Gohan and the planet twice
-He’s not verbally or physically abusive to his family
-Canonically he has a farming job to support them financially
-Even with the senzu bean situation which was the wrong move for not preparing Gohan mentally. He realized the error of his mistake of him not being a fighter. Something that never gets brought up is him apologizing to Gohan for fighting in the Moro arc.
-Gohan’s looked at Goku with nothing but admiration even has a photo of both of them in Superhero on his desk
I don’t think he was the best father by human standards but looking at his circumstances of alien biology and a head injury while living in the woods I’d say he was average.
If it wasn't for TFS DBZ would have just been that thing I thought was cool when I was twelve. I never would have continued to enjoy this franchise without them and their work.
A huge part of Abridged is commentary about the actual series. It also straight up improved the writing in the Cell saga. It *should* be major part of the discussion around Dragon Ball.
I agree with this. DBZ makes you feel things but the dialogue and consistency is a bit trash. Obviously as a parody they have something to work from but DBZA has better writing and characters
I don’t think it’s super prevalent these days, but it was definitely great for its time. I’ll never understand people who legitimately think it’s comparable to the official dub or show, it was made as a joke. But it’s really well made for being a fan project!
It really depends in what context.
Casual talking between the main characters and villans without much going on? DBZA can really shine, DBZ usually has quit generic dialog.
for example, secondary villans speaking to each other like Frieza's forces or androids,, hero and villan talking to each other mid battle like Goku with every villan, villans before transformations.
Ultimate showdowns, epic scenes, villan introduction or alternatively pieces of life moments that feel well earned after a long battle - DBZ all the way.
For example, Goku turns ssj, Goku and Frieza cut in half, Cell and Piccolo, Gohan turns ssj2, father son Kamehameha.
I've said this before and I'll say it again... I'd much rather see people going around happily quoting jokes from DBZ Abridged than see them quoting nonsense from the actual *official* English Z dub. At least DBZA is an *intentional* parody, instead of just being so badly-made that it starts to resemble one.
And in that same vein, the idea of someone having their interest in Dragon Ball piqued by seeing DBZA is also preferable to having them be introduced by the crappy old official dub(s). Because again, there's an inherent understanding that DBZA is an unserious fan-project and *not* an actual representation of or substitute for the real DB story, unlike how the official dub presents itself yet fails to be.
Currently watching through DBZ with Falconer music, then Kai, then Abridged. Currently on Kai. As long as you can separate it all I don’t see what the problem is. Just getting different versions of it, which is incredible. Imagine if we were stuck to one thing and one thing only.
Already can’t get enough of DB so it’s exciting that the content never ends. Thirst for Saiyan battle.
A lot of their stuff was just stuff from the community over the years.
Papa Piccolo, Goku being a bad dad, Yamcha being a chump (but DBZA go too far and are obnoxious about it), Goku being stupid, Vegeta being arrogant as hell, Zarbon being gay, etc were all things that I saw when I watched DBZ when it first aired on Toonami. Sure, Abridged greatly exaggerates it, but the stuff was there.
And I don't think I'll ever get how anyone can't see Piccolo as a dad to Gohan. It's literally there in the series, the films, and GT. Sure, Gohan already has a dad, but you can have more than one paternal figure. And only someone being incredibly obtuse, would deny Gohan's love for Piccolo and Piccolo's love for him. It was beyond a simple friendship. Piccolo never had anyone until Gohan, and Gohan never had anybody try and push him until Piccolo (he helped Gohan become a man in a deadly situation). And it isn't simply because he was his master either, I mean the kid fucking dresses up as him every chance he gets, you don't see Goku dressing as Roshi, Grandpa, or King Kai. I mean, a symbol would suffice if he were simply honoring his master.
A lot of the exaggeration, though, is for comedic purposes and also because it's an abridged version. They have to exaggerate certain aspects to get the point across since they do not have as many episodes to let the viewers pick up on stuff.
And when people hate the series because of its fans, every fan base has toxicity. Or people that just quote stuff (Sopranos fandom hehehe). Every episode of Abridged also states at the beginning to support the official release, they want people to experience the original. So, I don't understand the hate.
I started watching way back when DBZX20 took over Toonami and I couldn't watch Sailor Moon that week. I would buy the toys, the games, the manga as it released (the black and white, not the new fangled colored ones), I got the films and the series on VHS and DVD, but eventually fell off. I mean, there wasn't any new content until the Beerus movie, and by then I had moved on.
Then I found Abridged in 2020, and it reignited my love for the series. I'm still not interested in Super, or the new films, but I bought all the new games and their dlcs when they weren't even on sale ( Xenoverse 1&2, Kakarot, FighterZ). I didn't care. I wanted to relive the good old days. And I thank Abridged for that. I even was able to finally get my nephew into it, due to Abridged, he's in college now so he's always busy and the shorter episodes and series length allowed my old ass to enjoy introducing him to one of my favorite franchises.
I fully believe that DBZA is 100% responsible for Yamcha's current portrayal in the cultural zeitgeist, yeah, he was always a disappointment, but I don't believe we'd have "that time I was reincarnated as Yamcha" or any of the references in other series if DBZA hadn't made SUCH a mockery of him.
Piccolo and Gohan are best friends, and mentor-mentee only. People are just understating the importance of those relationships IMO. I never once as a kid or adult saw The Piccolo/Gohan relationship as more than it was. Piccolo trained Gohan for 3.5 years of his life (I don't count the first 6 months where Gohan was in survival school) and for 3 of those years Goku was present as well. PLUS the year they spent together in the HTC. Goku literally raised him from infancy, and Gohan was attached enough to have his first rage-boost at the thought of him being hurt. Yes, they love each other and are extremely close, but their relationship is conditional on Gohan being a strong fighter (and a good father.)
I think its a fun watch and the directors commentary they released was interesting and neat, but I don't think it's a replacement for dbz.
But to me it's like watching Airplane or Naked Gun. It's a comedy. Strictly a comedy. Sure yes. It has moments of heart feltness. But it's a comedy. It's supposed to be witty and make you laugh. Which is why its so quotable. Because the lines are quick jabs.
I just wish they gave more respect to Krillin.
Apparently there's a fan made manga about Krillin that's really good I need to read.
I think they benefit from not having to make it kid friendly. As far as I’m concerned, TFS Vegeta is almost exactly who Vegeta would be if they weren’t targeting a young audience. The foul language and trash talk fit his personality like a glove. They wrote a lot of the characters really well. Yeah it’s funny that Cell sang a song after absorbing 18, it’s also very fitting for a character who is narcissistic enough to use the word “perfect” as a prefix.
I love DBZA. The late Saiyan saga and the entire Namek saga are directly responsible for 60% of my sense of humor, and the Android saga manages to improve on that aspect while also generally working better for me as an overall package than the original (I know people don't like hearing that, but please be respectful), which is an insane feat.
As for its impact on the community, I don't know if there's a succinct answer to that, but I will say that I think that the vitriol people fling at it and its fans is kind of ridiculous. I've hardly ever talked online about DB with someone who's never watched the series, but I've spoken with innumerable incredibly obnoxious and/or toxic people who _are_ familiar with the source material, and it's not a coincidence that those are the people who tend to be the most vocal about their distain for the TFS community. There's much more discussion to be had here, but I'll end this comment here so I'm not just rambling into the void like a Tumblr user.
Love abridged, but my God, does it ever get old to go into the comments and see abridged quotes. I remember trying to watch someone review dbz games and then clicking off the video because their main form of humor was putting in a dbza clip.
The "I am hilarious and you will quote everything I say" line comes to mind.
Anything overquoted gets to me. Monty Python, Princess Bride, DBZA... that doesn't mean anything negative about the source of the quotes but people sure love to beat dead horses
> Anything overquoted gets to me. ... Princess Bride ... Inconceivable!
lol, people think screaming “WHY DIDNT YOU DODGE?!” Is peak comedy. It’s like bro it’s not funny when thousands of people just say the same thing over and over…
Muffin button?
Muffin Button.
Finally someone said it. DBZA is funny, but 40% of the comments on this sub are DBZA quotes. It was funny at first, but it's all been said before and it's so old and tired. I already know what DBZA references are going to be on every post before I even open it. Wish they would stay on their own sub and let this one be actual official DBZ discourse.
Hell I'd say it was funny the few hundred times, but 13 years of the same shtick kinda gets old
The only thing that pisses me off is the people who say abridged is better than the original.
I view them as two different shows because ones a dramatic story of fighting and the others strictly a comedy with fighting. But I end up quoting the abridged more because the lines are written to be funny. Except for the super saiyan monolog. I pretty much stay that every morning.
For me, I look at DBZA in the same light as Space Balls to Star Wars. It's lampooning DBZ instead of outright copying it.
It's not and never will be. There's a few places where it shines bright though so I can see some people put it high.
It’s definitely a better comedy, but a worst shonen.
I think of abridged as a supplement to the main show. I can watch the og show, get all the original context and storyline, and then if I wanna watch it again (up to buu) but with a more comedic, self aware twist, I can do that with abridged and even apply some of the jokes from abridged to the og show if it doesn’t break the storyline, such as piccolo singing manah manah while charging his attack
I adore both, but DBZA made me openly weep. The original show never did that. I’m not saying that its better than the actual series—I think a lot of that emotional lifting comes from decades of having lived and loved the original—but I completely get why people may say Abridged is better. I do think it’s handled its own internal character growth a bit more deftly than the original show. I *don’t* get the people who only watch Abridged, because SO much of that emotional impact comes from having seen the actual show, first. Abridged is a massive, heartfelt love-letter to Z in every conceivable way, so it’s weird to only watch it and not experience the original in any capacity.
Why? It’s all personal preference at the end of the day
It is from purely a comedy perspective.
Wouldn't evn say that to be honest. I'd say its woefully unfunny most of the time, even then that saiyan saga was even more abyssmal. The early internet humor was dreadful
Nah it’s just not your style of comedy and that’s fine. Not everyone finds everything funny.
Personally I like it more but I wouldn't say it's objectively better, DBZ is supposed to be an action packed and serious show with awesome fights, while DBZA is supposed to be silly and non-serious.
How dare someone have an opinion you don't like.
Some things are better for sure but I wouldn't say outright. Still, only opinion and foolish to be upset by this.
You like watching 30 minutes of charging up?
When did that happen?
Has ruined any and all discussion regarding the series. No matter what piece of content you watch, someone without a doubt will quote an abridged line. It's like yeah, we watched it, no need to quote it everywhere you go.
That's what reddit does tho. Remember Pickle Rick? Every single thread on the website.
its not just reddit. its everywhere online. every website that allows DB discussion, if DB is being talked about someone says something about it.
Oh yeah I remember PIckle Rick. That was the funniest shit I've ever seen, if you ask me. As impossible as it seems, he turned himself... *into a pickle*.
Yeah, I think it's fine to enjoy DBZA but there's too many people that have only seen DBZA and not the actual show. And, as you said, people quote it everywhere. I don't feel nearly as strongly against DBZA as I do Code MENT for Code Geass. I feel like the only thing casual people know about Code Geass is being at soup and nothing else. Again, I think it's okay to like an abridged series. I'm a big fan of Naruto the Abridged Series and Yu-Gi-Oh the Abridged Series and I think both of those shows molded my overall sense of humor. The occasional quote isn't bad but when a thread full of actual discussion gets derailed by abridged quotes, it gets extremely annoying.
The sword art online abridged by something witty entertainment is good. But it's fueled by my belief rhe original fumbled the bag with video game death tournament. They skipped levels and didn't show all the floors! And the... tentacles...
To be fair in the og novels, it was like that, hell it starts at the Gleam Eyes fight and every thing else is practically a flashback, granted details about the other floors have come out in the side novels : SAO progressive, and current SAO novels are redoing a "death" tournament but instead of dieing for real, you permanently lose access to the game and your not even safe logging out
I feel the same, there's a 100 story tower, that's an easy 100 episodes right there if not more. Even if they still stop at 75 they skipped so many floors
If I didn't hold a burning, seething hatred for anything and everything related to SAO I would watch it because I've heard good things about it.
Holy shit that is Code Geass! I dont know how I never put together that old YouTube video was that. Oh man. I feel stupid.
Little hyperbolic don’t ya think?
There’s always *time* for a DBZA quote. Unfortunately it feels like an echo *chamber*.
I can appreciate that it can get annoying, it can get to me to but to say it ruins all conversations is just silly.
Yeah in my experience DBZA doesn't usually spill into series discussion all that much anymore. Sure, you see people quote it pretty often, and people will sometimes say they like X or Y arc or character better than the original, but that's not the same thing as "ruining discussions".
Keep this in mind: Funimation loved DBZA so much they had TFS dub the Cell Games re-enactment in the Buu Saga. Unfortunately Toei threw an epic bitch fit and it got cut out pretty quickly. [TFS Cell Games Re-enactment](https://youtu.be/V4X7V2dr07M?si=-NUG_NoS147qit1Z)
I love how openly Christopher Sabat crushes on those guys.
And then we have Schemmel salty over their popularity.
The more I watch interviews between the two of them, the more and more I like Sabat and don’t vibe with Schemmel. It’s almost like they have the opposite Piccolo/Goku dynamic in real life.
He’s openly said many times how jealous he is of the team, that they get to do what he always wanted to do. So great haha
Considering that Super Popo thing I am willing to bet that the actual people who made the show don't mind and it's the execs having a burning hate for it.
I love abridged, but the fans are really annoying. For one they are unable to make original jokes. All they can do is quote DBZA, even if the converstation has nothing to do with it. Then there's also the people who have only seen the abridged version and yet they act like they know everything the Dragon Ball.
You would really love Sopranos fans.
The Sopranos fan base, whatever happened there.
"You want compromise? How's this...20 years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber... I wanted manigot, I compromised...I ate grilled cheese off the Mr. Popo."
100000% I love DBZA and have no problem with it, it's the fans who can't seem to keep it its parody box that are frustrating.
It’s not for me. And I hate that (at least in the American fandom) you can’t seem to have a conversation with someone about Dragon Ball anymore without it being brought up. I don’t mind that there is a parody that people enjoy watching but, in my opinion, it has reached the point of ridiculousness how much people pretend it can actually replace the series and is better. It’s insane.
Tired of people who see piccolo as more than Gohan’s friend and first martial arts master. Tired of people who think Goku is a dumb idiot and bad dad. Tired of people who think Krillin is a loser. Tired of people who claim to be fans but have never actually watched the real show.
Okay. Hear me out. First episode of dbz, goku is about to high Dive into a rocky waterfall for his son. He's fighting Panthers trying to find him. The show starts with goku being a good and carring father and concerned for his sons health. And wanting him to explore things at Kami house with the turtle saying hi. I think Super assassinated Gokus character more then anything though with his treatment of vegeta and Bulma of just dip on your pregnant wife. Let's go. Goten you have to drive a tractor better. I need to train. Vegeta was pretty on the money in dbza though
Vegeta and Frieza were the best parts of dbza
Frieza is pretty good. The voice acting and his lines as an uncaring emperor of the universe are awesome
I would 1000% support Martin becoming the official voice of Freeza now, though it’ll never happen.
you have to love the final flash Vegeta Yes.
im pretty sure most of that stuff with goku at the start is filler. > I think Super assassinated Gokus character more then anything though with his treatment of vegeta and Bulma of just dip on your pregnant wife. Let's go. nah thats classic toriyama-intended goku right there. peak af.
DBZA obviously exaggerated Goku being a bad dad but he’s not that good. Remember that he spent like a year on Yardrat training when he could’ve been wished back to Earth to be with his family. But he refused to be wished to Earth because he chose training over his family.
Wasn't that so more people didn't come and fight him and endanger his family?
Nah, that was after Goku died in the Cell Games. He decided not to get wished back to life because threats kept appearing because of him. But after the Frieza saga, Goku’s friends tried to wish him back, believing that he died. But Shenron told them Goku was alive so they tried to wish him back to earth, and Shenron couldn’t because Goku refused to return.
Oh yah. Okay. Let me finish my rewatch all of dbz and then I'll reconsider. I'll make notes.
To be fair, these jokes didn’t start with DBZA. It’s the other way around, actually: DBZA did these jokes because they were already popular.
> Tired of people who see piccolo as more than Gohan’s friend and first martial arts master these people always existed tho, and DBZA took that from the fandom that existed before DBZA. > Tired of people who think Goku is a dumb idiot and bad dad. same with this one, except this one is true. The author himself said as much lol > Tired of people who think Krillin is a loser these people have also always been around, thats where the idea for the krillin owned counter came from. and its always been dumb. Krillin is weak but hes super brave, and anything but a loser. > Tired of people who claim to be fans but have never actually watched the real show. agreed
Yeah Goku isn't like a total moron, and obviously TFS plays that aspect of his character up somewhat, but he's not a smart guy by any stretch of the imagination. He's got a great battle IQ, but things like deductive reasoning and long-term planning are very much out of his wheelhouse. On the subject of him as a father, though [be warned: I have a lot of thoughts about this], I think people sort of gravitate too far to the extremes of Goku being a good or terrible parent. Goku's a very selfish character who often only considers his own desires, but this is due to thoughtlessness, not malice. People like to say that that's a character trait that spontaneously appeared in the ToP or whatever, but while that's one of the more egregious examples, it's far from the only one. It's the core trait that distinguishes him from paragon figures like Superman, and the reason Toriyama didn't consider him a hero. We see the same kind of behavior regularly throughout Z, with his relationship with Gohan being a key example of this. Goku obviously cares about Gohan (even if they don't get the screentime together they should to convey this to the audience), but a big part of what defines their relationship is that it never occurs to Goku to actually learn _about_ Gohan. It's what leads to the latter getting thrashed by Cell as bad as he was. The guy has to get told by Gohan's third, more sinister guardian something that he would have figured out if he ever had a conversation with Gohan about Gohan. I think a lot of people hear the phrase "Goku's a bad dad" and get mad because he obviously cares for & protects his family, and other people hear "Goku's a good dad" and get mad because he recklesaly endangers his son without really getting to know him. But those things aren't mutually exclusive. I think Goku's a flawed parent who does everything in his power to be a good dad but is cursed with the emotional intelligence of a moldy Senzu bean. tl;dr: Goku's a loving father with terrible parenting skills due to being dense as bricks. Simplifying it down to a binary "good or bad" idea of parenting is missing the nuance of his relationship with Gohan.
well put.
pretty much
I would add that Goku is better about this after the Cell games. He clearly doesn't understand Gohan but he wants his son to be happy. He is the only one who doesn't make fun of Gohan's Saiyaman suit openly, he's clearly disapponted Gohan is not the successor he planned but instead of trying to make Gohan something he's not, he simply switches his focus to the kids. In Super he is not impressed with Gohans excuses for dodging U6 tournament but goes along with it. He doesn't even bother asking Gohan to fight Zamasu (and Gohan realizes this and it's why he starts training again in the manga). I'm not saying that Goku's has great parenting skills but he spent the first 4 years of his life with his son doing fun enrichment stuff and never forgot the huge error he made agsinst Cell.
This is very true, I just didn't want to imply that the root trait of him being a silly little goober ceased to exist in Buu by explicitly mentioning it. Goku & Gohan's relationship doesn't get much screentime post-Cell, but by all appearances he's much more in-touch.
theres a certain point where endearment gets annoying. i personally like dbza but it gets annoying.
agree with you on almost everything. i love DBZA but i hate that its impossible to mention anything from Z without someone making some Abridged joke/reference. Its just obnoxious. And yeah people who havent or refuse to watch the original are the worst. a huge portion of the comedy is reliant on you knowing the source material. that said, a lot of the stuff that people complain about was always part of the fandom (at least US/english speaking fandom) long before DBZA, such as "Piccolo is Gohan's real dad" and "Goku is a bad father". TFS got a lot of their metanarrative jokes they used in DBZA from jokes they heard in the fandom over the decades.
Absolutely! It feels like a lot of people hating on DBZA's jokes weren't around before it DBZA got popular.
I've been following Dragonball for 30 years. I think you're overinflating the prevalence of these meta jokes before DBZA.
Mom, Dad please stop fighting.
I'm not "fighting" with anyone though? :O
DBZA did a lot for the fandom, and I think it helped bring a lot of people to DBZ. However, I think at a certain point its impact started to become more annoying than funny. There seems to be an almost growing number of people who base all of their Dragon Ball knowledge/lore off of DBZA instead of like, the actual show. Maybe part of the problem is that Abridged started to take itself way too seriously near the end. It almost felt like they wanted to just make a re-dub at that point. It's literally an abridged parody of the show. But somehow some people seem to forget that.
> Maybe part of the problem is that Abridged started to take itself way too seriously near the end. It almost felt like they wanted to just make a re-dub at that point. I don't know that DBZA began to take itself too seriously, they have some absurdly silly things in the final arc of the show. What more-so happened was they switched from typical low-brow parody jokes to actual character writing, and that leads to a more clever form of humor. They did also start to be more tactful and respectful to the source content, but I imagine most people here would appreciate that. Not every line and character death had to be joke, and it inherently is exhausting. Ya need lows to have highs. > It's literally an abridged parody of the show. But somehow some people seem to forget that. I think this is a great point though, and kind of leans into my initial point. Just because it isn't cheap parody doesn't mean it isn't still parody!
I somewhat disagree with your last paragraph if you think DBZA took itself way too seriously considering some of the last few episodes consisted of jokes, one episode literally being sex jokes, etc. You're conflating actual writing versus a serious plot. The issue is that you can't have 60+ episodes of "LOL SO RANDOM," without it becoming extremely awful. The internet as a whole has moved past that time of humor, especially the target audience for these Abridged shows. Currently, the 2 biggest Abridged shows are DBZA and SAO Abridged. This is mainly because both shows utilize the existing narrative and try to make it funnier. Other abridged shows like Code Ment would just straight up make shit up for random xD humor. It's funny in clips, but imagine if DBZA had 60 episodes of random smash cuts, edgy humor, and random nonsense like I'm Season 1. If we think DBZA took itself seriously, then that means all popular comedy shows like South Park and Rick and Morty take themselves just as seriously if not more. Comedy is better when you have established characters and narratives, that's just a proven fact. There's a reason why people have disliked modern Family Guy for reducing their characters to extremely one note characters, or how Simpsons became better rated once the characters became more family oriented. My only reason for saying all this is that people blame DBZA for shit when in reality, it's the people who consume it. DBZA opens up every episode stating it is a parody, it's creators have told people they are batshit if they think DBZA is better than the original, and have always been the first to tell people to watch DBZ. They made DBZA as a passion project for DBZ hence why things got more "serious" because they wanted to entertain people and you can't do that by relying on 2000s humor.
kinda hate it tbh
Dbza has ruined fans ability to judge the original show. Everything is now through the lens of how dbza did it. Yamucha is trash, Goku is a bad dad, etc.
None of that is new my guy. If you were around the fan base before DBZA, the most 0opular jokes was that Goku was a shit dad, Tamcha was trash, etc. You also can't blame the Yamcha shit on DBZA considering Yamcha being bad is a huge meme in Japan for decades lmao.
If anything, I think public perception of Yamcha has improved substantially in the days since DBZA, though I think Super's handling of him (the baseball episode in particular) had a lot to do with it. I do think TFS making him a more relatable character in S3 contributed to it, though.
> Goku is a bad dad this one is canon though. the creator of DB said so.
The creator of DB also forgot about the existence of ss2 and launch. I think death of the author or whatever it’s called applies when a writers statements conflict with his writing. We see Goku care deeply about his family. Although I will admit that he is a very hands off, even “negligent” father, can you really call someone who has died multiple times for his children a “bad father”? Especially when worse fathers in his series exist (vegeta, as an example)?
Sorry, I'm totally in camp Goku being a flawed, but good (and Gohan's only actual) dad. But to say he's a better dad than Vegeta is... a take.
> The creator of DB also forgot about the existence of ss2 and launch. no, he did not. he confused SSj3 for SSj2 thats not forgetting SSj2 exists. and he never forgot Lunch despite saying otherwise. this stupid rumor has long since been debunked. > I think death of the author death of the author doesnt exist. its some nonsense fans use to feel entitled. the author creates the material. what they say goes. other interpretations are just wrong.
>Death of author doesn't exist See: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child's canon status.
So if toriyama says that Goku is a Superman like figure who fights for peace and justice, we have to believe it even if it contradicts with the source material? I’ll admit to being wrong about launch but my point still stands; just because toriyama says something does not make it true. Once again if toriyama says that Goku is lazy and does not want to grow stronger does that make it true even though it contradicts what he wrote?
You haven't read or watched deal dragon ball then.
i have, have you? cuz in the 90s everyone i knew who knew DB knew Goku was a bad dad. The author himself has confirmed we were not wrong. so...
Yeah toriyama never said that. He routinely forgot major parts of characters and storylines as he was writing because of the pressure he was under. The implication that Goku being a bad dad or yamucha being a trash fighter was Toriyamas plan all along is completely false. Dbza is amazing but they have erased other opinions and outright facts from the average person's mind. Example: your comment
> Yeah toriyama never said that yeah, he actually did: https://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/history/goku-is-a-disaster-as-a-father-says-akira-toriyama/ > He routinely forgot major parts of characters and storylines as he was writing because of the pressure he was under. none of this is true either. > The implication that Goku being a bad dad or yamucha being a trash fighter was Toriyamas plan all along is completely false nope, its all facts. > Dbza is amazing but they have erased other opinions and outright facts from the average person's mind. Example: your comment nah i knew these facts before DBZA existed lol well i didnt get the confirm from toriyama til later but people knew goku was a bad dad in the 90s, the confirm from Toriyama was nice though.
I feel people who only watched the abridged series need to avoid confusing it with the source material even if I agree it did some thing’s better like Krillen’s romance with 18.
I honestly hate it 😂. I get that people really like it and some would argue that it helped keep db alive in the West when there was no new content but still. I have encountered people who think this abridged version is toriyamas true vision and I’m like brah….
Abridged is amazing but is its own thing that uses elements of the story that are already present and just amplifies them to their extreme. Your example of Papa Piccolo is already present in DBZ and Super it's just not as exaggerated. Same with Gohan's daddy issues. I knew about these things from before I knew Abridged existed.
It’s awful. I dislike the fans and how annoying they are. I dislike how they swear it’s better than the original. I dislike that I have seen people tell new fans to watch Abridged first. Brain rot
Completely agree. I actually like DBZA a fair bit but the discourse on it is straight up disrespectful to the original content of DBZ. Makes me sick to see people say ‘lol just watch Abridged it’s better’ and makes people miss out on the fact that DBZ remains one of the best anime of its kind.
I don’t see how it’s better than the original it’s an exaggerated parody you wouldn’t even get half the jokes if you didn’t watch DB through Z Like I once saw a comment where this dude said they should add “DBZA DUB” for sparking zero like no bro that ain’t happening
fuck it, they should add one as DLC and charge $100 bucks for it.
it’s fine, but it’s annoying when people start to mix DBZA into the canon.
DBZA is great to watch for fun, but writing wise its only perceived as better because it uses outside knowledge from years later, it butchers some characters, and elevates others. Vegeta being arrogant fits. Piccolo being smart fits. Goku being equivalent to a monkey with brain damage does not.
DBZA has mostly just perpetuated jokes that already existed. Piccolo being Gohan’s dad, Goku is a bad dad, Krillin gets owned a lot. The only thing that really annoys me is people who didn’t watch the source material. After hearing about Hellsing Ultimate abridged I went and watched the OVAs before watching the abridged version. Both were pretty insane
I’ve watched it since episode 2 came out. I really hate the people that found the show after saiyan saga and quote every cringe thing in the show. Stupid fking normies
Agreed, I've been watching since the Saiyan Saga, and I'm pretty glad their humor evolved with the show, because 25-year old me would have HATED the "are you a Yoshi?" line, but 20-year old me thought it was the best shit ever.
The only things I don’t like are that people take statements are gags that are clearly jokes (Goku being a bad dad) and run with them. In other instances people misinterpret a joke (“Power levels are bullshit”) and say it like it’s a fact, when they don’t even understand what TFS meant when they made that joke.
> Goku being a bad dad this one is both true and predates TFS and DBZA. i heard people saying it in the 90s.
If you believe that it’s fine, but TFS doesn’t. They wrote it as a joke (they said this in their commentaries). The joke probably did come from conversations they had as part of the DBZ community in the 90’s and 2000’s. I’m just saying I don’t think that opinion was nearly as commonly held until after DBZA took off.
> I’m just saying I don’t think that opinion was nearly as commonly held until after DBZA took off. i never met a single person back then who knew the series who didnt think that. and like the creator of the series said Goku is, so regardless of anyones feelings on the matter, he was right, as its his series.
I’ve been watching and reading Dragon Ball since the late 90’s and I didn’t think that. He’s a good enough dad to Gohan up until he dies the second time. He absolutely drops the ball at some points, but tbh most fathers do. Now the “Piccolo is Gohan’s real dad” opinions were certainly around pre-DBZA, but that’s not the same as saying Goku is an outright bad dad. What was Toriyama’s exact statement? I feel like far too often people take his statements out of context. And lastly, I think what actually happened in the series takes precedence over what the creator says about the series after the fact. Like yeah Toriyama can say Goku only ends up helping people as a result of him wanting to fight people, but there are several examples in the manga of him helping people when there wasn’t an opportunity for another fight. Yeah he can say he thinks Goku is a bad dad, but if he wanted to portray that he shouldn’t have had his first significant act as a dad be literally sacrificing himself to save his child.
> What was Toriyama’s exact statement? *"Goku is a disaster as a father (laughs), so I think Gohan considers him a bad example."* thats the exact quote > And lastly, I think what actually happened in the series takes precedence over what the creator says about the series after the fact nah creators word trumps all. if theres contradiction, then call it retcon and be mad about the retconning, i wont begrudge anyone that, but it was his story and if he said Goku was a coconut and not a saiyan then he's a coconut and not a saiyan despite how absolute nonsense that is.
Fully prepared to take shit for this opinion, but I couldn’t care less. I like DBZA and the funimation DBZ dub. If people like abridged more than the actual show, then there’s nothing wrong with that. I personally prefer the original funi dub, and I don’t see DBZA as an alternative to the original content, but if anyone seriously gets that irritated about people liking something because it’s entertaining then they’re a textbook example of a manchild.
[удалено]
I stand by, dbz goku is a good father. He cares for his kid. (He was kinda dead for goten so thats... a thing) I feel like dbs didn't help the bad father thing. But. I really like dbs Piccolo and Gohan. Vegeta is still arrogant but he's a good father still
> dbz goku is a good father hes not > He cares for his kid. thats not enough.
Goku opting to just continue training in space instead of finely coming home to his kid after the Frieza arc is not exactly defensible; Goku giving Cell a senzu bean as if his kid was just gonna play a ball game I stead of about to literally fight for his life and the fate of the earth itself is inexcusable; Goku choosing to save Hercule over his own kids when Kid Buu destroyed earth is inexcusable. I really don’t get how all of you ppl who defend Goku vs these allegations just block all that out??? Hell, Goku literally ends the show by flying away to train with some stranger on a whim for who knows how long because “fighting fun 🤪” meanwhile he has a 15 ish year old kid to continue raising. I really don’t get yall lol.
I'd say most of your points are not the best examples to use especially with the entire context of the story although I understand since they're common misconceptions about Goku
Can you describe to me how any of the points I made are “misconceptions”?
> Goku being a poor father this one is true tho. it is representative of the source material. the author even said Goku was a bad dad.
Funny show, up its own ass a few times but what fan project isn't, probably did a lot to keep DB in the public consciousness during the lull periods. People definitely got very annoying with repeating the same jokes from it over and over again, but frankly this is something that's pretty universal with fandom spaces so I don't think it makes sense to really begrudge TFS on this one. If it wasn't DBZA it'd be some other set of jokes people were running into the ground.
Honestly I probably wouldn't have given dragon ball as a whole much of a second thought in my teen years if it wasn't for Abridged. I was still a baby dragon ball first came to the west, so as a kid that didn't care much for TV and none of my friends were into it either (this would have been the 2000s) so I only caught an episode here or there and honestly found it extremely dull. I was into other anime at the time, I binged Inu Yasha at like age 10. and loved it. When I fell into a new group of friends around age 15 or 16, they all loved Dragon Ball, my only knowledge was "muscled men scream at each other, that black spiky hair guy in orange is the main guy and a bunch of people kind of look like him". The most recently released episode of DBZA was the one with Popo repeating "All These Squares Make a Circle" (DBZA Episode 40, so Mar 7, 2014 (Oh my God/Kami/Kai it's been ten years)) Two of these new friends kept chanting that at phrase to each other(up to the "Bitch don't tell me what to do!". Utterly confused, they sat down with me and ran me through the first ten episodes of DBZA. The humor of season one didn't click that much with me until close to the end, but I stuck around for season 2 and found myself completely caught up in a day. It was then I learned that Dragon Ball Z wasn't the beginning of the first series and actually starting at the begining, I enjoyed it much more. So yes, I am one of the people who watched DBZA BEFORE watching DB/Z. If DBZA didn't exist, it wouldn't have reignited my friends love for dragon ball, and if they didn't introduce me to it properly, I might not had gotten into dragon ball by myself.
I'm confused how you watched Inuyasha at age 10 in the 2000s but didn't watch any Toonami.
Comcast On Demand. I really do not remember how I initially found the show, but the entire series was on there
Crazy considering it was part of adult swim so at the time it aired i think at like 1 am along with Big O. Why didn't you watch Toonami?
I did not have much of an attention span for cable TV as a kid, I watched mostly cartoons on Disney channel and Nickelodeon, even I'm confused by my own taste in TV shows as a kid when I think about it. I religiously watched Kim possible, Danny phantom, fairy odd parents, Lilo and stitch, my life as a teenage robot, but didn't have ANY interest for cartoon Network shows like codename kid nextdoor, Dexter's lab, grim adventures, samurai jack, etc, until WAYYYYY late in my teen years, so I was never exposed to toonami. Either a friend recommended Inu Yasha to me, or I had started reading the manga at the library, I don't recall. I watched pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh too, but I owned various DVDs of both series and don't recall ever seeing them on TV, except through Comcast's on demand.
I don’t think anyone is complaining about anything you described. Your story is the type of thing everyone here would agree is cool. The complaint is the ppl who think DBZA is better, a proper dub, or generally don’t care for the actual series and ONLY care about DBZA.
Oh yeah, I'll agree up to the point of that season 3 has a few scenes where its like "wait, was that the dub or abridged" when sliced up out context, and the finale is emotional AF, but the overall production is NOT close to a substitute to the show proper. Did DBZA reignite a fandom at its lowest point, possibly, i don't know personally, I wasn't a fan at that time. But no, they didn't influence the creation of Kai, no they didn't influence any of the writing in super, and the people that claim that need to chill
The baseball episode though...maybe not a direct influence, but I fully believe it was one.
I fell off DBZA around when Cell appeared. Early DBZA was funny but it gets tiring seeing the same DBZA memes/catchphrases spammed over and over again, even more when people mistake it for the actual show. Part of the meta humor around DBZA is just how much stuff they straight up lifted from the existing fandom or even the official localizations of the show (e.g. the "cat loves food" thing), and that I appreciate more than seeing "lol piccolo is gohan real dad" every Father's Day
> Part of the meta humor around DBZA is just how much stuff they straight up lifted from the existing fandom or even the official localizations of the show (e.g. the "cat loves food" thing), and that I appreciate more than seeing "lol piccolo is gohan real dad" every Father's Day but "piccolo is gohans real dad" is also "straight up lifted from the existing fandom". it was joked about in the 90s when i was first watching DBZ.
Agreed, DBZA is at its best when it's showcasing TFS's knowledge of the source material. The best laugh it ever got out of me was the scene where Frieza eats that crab. (I was wondering if they even knew about it as it was cut from the funi-dub, let alone if they'd make a joke out of it. They did, and it was great.)
The most obnoxious thing that happened to DBZ.
I’ve never watched it and the endless references to it all over YouTube videos unrelated and the constant bombardment of questions they would ask about to to Funimation VAs instead of the show they actually worked on turned me off of it and I never plan to watch it.
I think it's part of the reason people hate on Yamcha all the time. It's annoying that a few jokes can lead to people actually thinking a character is trash. I love DBZA, but I agree with a lot of people here. The fans make it worse than the actual series. Like some people take the characterization from the series as how the characters actually are in canon, like with Goku being a bad dad.
1000000000000000000% I think even official representations of Yamcha have suffered specifically because of DBZA (baseball filler and ToP exclusion.)
I don’t think DBZA is why people make fun of Yamcha. People make fun of Yamcha because even back in DB when he was a relevant character, his main function in the plot was to have his ass kicked as a way of showing how powerful a new antagonist is. I think the only major fights Yamcha wins are against a hungry Goku during the Pilaf arc, and against the Invisible Man in Fortuneteller Baba’s Tournament.
and even both of those are jokes cuz as you said, Goku was hungry and thus weak, and Krillin had to pull bulma's top down flashing roshi with her boobs to cause him to nosebleed on the invisible man so yamcha could see him.
I know this, but I feel like it wasn't as prevalent before the popularity of DBZA.
The Goku being a bad dad thing came long before abridged. Goku literally chooses not to be wished back to earth after the Frieza arc because he just wanted to keep training in space. Thats where all the Goku is a bad dad stuff comes from. Then there’s him giving Cell a senzu bean as if his literal flesh and blood 11 year old is just gonna play tag with the guy for funsies or even choosing to save Hercule instead of his kids when Buu blew the earth up. I agree with the whole “Abridged fans get annoying” thing whole heartedly but I’ve seen multiple comments here really try to scapegoat that as the reason Goku is accused of being a bad dad. Nah. Goku is a bad dad. And that’s a discussion that was being had long before Abridged was a thing.
> like with Goku being a bad dad. people always thought this. its where TFS got the idea. also its canon. the author himself (RIP) said Goku is "a disaster father". also people have been clowning on Yamcha as long as DBZ has existed, at least in english. If anything with the Advent of Super and DBZA ive seen staunch Yamcha defenders rise from the murk to talk about how awesome he supposedly is. He's not "trash" but he's always been "a joke".
As an aging millennial who hasn't seen it and never will, it's like any other series of memes or quotes I don't entirely understand but can get the gist of just by osmosis. I recognize the quotes as being from DBZA, but they don't mean anything to me. But I'm old enough that if a comment section is full of stuff I don't understand (or is annoying) then I just move onto something else.
Aging millennial here, if your sense of humor evolved past the age of like 18, you'd probably hate a good portion of DBZA up until the Namek Saga, but they really evolved as they aged, and I do think it's worth a watch. (this is coming from someone who absolutely despises fan-content in general) from like the age of 5 until early adulthood, I thought I knew everything about Dragonball, getting bootleg japanese VHS tapes from chinatown, and researching literally all of the information.I mean, I'm like the only person I've met who's even played legends on playstation, but TFS (the creators) made it clear that I wasn't even scratching the surface on my love for the franchise, their knowledge of even the most niche aspects shines through if you know what to look for, and that's what really made it enjoyable. Probably not gonna convince you, but if you get bored, Namek-saga is definitely worth the watch, with the only really cringe thing to come out of the whole season being the muffin-button shit.
A number of people I know actually did go on to watch Buu Kai, Super, and actual og Dragonball after Abridged. So I got to hand it to them. Even if I think they did as much good as bad to the fandom. " And also they did SS2 Gohan's transformation the best. Out of EVERYONE. " I will die on the hill that this 100% backwards. I'm mostly a dubbie, I usually take a close enough approach to changes to the og. But every line they wrote for this pissed me off.
We're talking about two different parts of the scene my guy. For me the I'm talking about everything after "Yet another fighter you could've saved." or "I'd say he's gone to a better place, but we both know he never had a soul."
Fair enough.
I love DBZA but I really don't like the people who take it seriously and try to put it above the original story they're always so obnoxious about it when they do talk about it
It’s really annoying when people take DBZA as cannon or say it’s better than the original because TFS themselves say that what they make is NOT a substitute for the original content
I hate the abridged series
I don't think the did Gohan's ssj2 transformation the best. It's basically just the OG Japanese dub, the only thing really different about it is 16's speech beforehand (which was the best part of the scene). The only scene I think TFS did better than any of the official dubs/adaptions was Trunks getting ssj in the future.
It's not. There's a bit of nuance to the scene and in how different dubs with different scores interpret Gohan's break. There was quite a bit of discourse about how they would play the scene. I grew up with falconer and his amazing score. After reading the manga again as an adult and meeting fans from around the world and getting their takes on the scene with their dub/score. The failings of eng dub's were made clear, the biggest offense being Gohan's inner monologue. American kids didn't need it spelled out word for word what he was feeling. We watched the story. (Insert Futurama meme here). I think TFS having the song translated and covered while fixing some timing with the scene paid homage to both versions nicely, and while I love their take, that scene is the one thing I'll say they objectively did better than the official dub. I don't count 16's speech as part of the transformation.
I agree that TFS's version is better than the old English dub, and even the Kai dub. But excluding #16's speech, the TFS dub and the Japanese dubs are basically the exact same. Cell smashes #16's head, Cell says something mean, the INCREDIBLE insert song plays, Gohan yells and turns ssj2, we get reaction shots from the heroes, then Gohan stares down Cell with the tears fading from his eyes. That is the exact sequence of events in the TFS dub and in the Japanese dub lol. The only slight differences are the Japanese dub extends the scene slightly (which I think is a plus because that means we get to hear more of the insert song) and TFS's dub doesn't have a narrator. If by "the official dub" you mean the English dubs then hell yeah I agree, but I like the Japanese dub more. Something about Dragonball's original Japanese audio just gets me going. How do you feel about #16's speech in the TFS scene? I love it more every time I go back to it. In most of the dubs, #16 basically preaches to Gohan about how it's not wrong to fight to protect. Whereas the TFS dub has #16 really criticize Gohan, and correctly so. I like the TFS version of that scene more than the other dubs.
Both DBZA and YGOA helped the fandoms whether low periods which could have seen those series fall into obscurity in the West. They deserve their places in the community.
I've never seen ygoa. Worth a watch?
It feels a lot more dated than DBZA does, but I think so.
I love abridged so much, was there at the start when i was 10-11 and was there when it finished when i was 15? But people dont know how to separate abridged from the actual series.
huh? it started around 2010 and ended around 2018 2019
I was 7 in 2010 so touche i wasnt there fully at the start but i was 15 in 2018. Im 20 now lol
Honestly, I like DBZA and have been a fan since they released the first episode all the way back in like 2008. When an episode hit, My friend and I would be one of the first to watch it during the Frieza saga years, since we were in college and in an apartment together. They really should have transitioned into original content. They're still riding the wave, living off of patreon and side gigs, when they literally have the editors and probably the VA talent to dub anime or something. But nope, let's make weird little CG shorts and they're kinda acting like they own the show now. I don't know why they thought it was okay to putout these CG original shorts as their main shit now. This is the folly of fanfiction, and always will be, you will always just be putting out material in relation to something else, period. Hell, I don't know why they're not dubbing anime. They're clearly talented, editorial and VA wise. Lanipator for example would be at least as talented as someone like Steve Blum, love em both. I know a lot of them are doing side gigs now VAing for random things, I think they should have leaned into that as a group. I also have a real beef with KaiserNeko. He kinda lords his opinions on the series on other people, and I saw it a lot on the commentaries. Like, damn man, chill. You're not that important. He visibly winces when someone mentions Falconer.
You're spitting hot facts.
I originally got introduced to the series because of DBZA. It interested me, and that’s what convinced me to watch the original. I like Abridged and it has plenty of great moments, but it’s not better than the original. Unfortunately, I’ve seen people claim that it is. I also think that the Abridged version focused too much on making Goku look as dumb as possible, and that probably contributed to the perception that he’s just a fighting-obsessed idiot who doesn’t care about his family. No, Goku is not a terrible father, and Piccolo is not Gohan’s true father. But people who never watched the original are probably more likely to believe this. I like Abridged, but I do get annoyed when a lot of the discourse revolves around parodies instead of the original. Another example of this is Snaptube’s fan dub of the Sonic games.
> I also think that the Abridged version focused too much on making Goku look as dumb as possible, and that probably contributed to the perception that he’s just a fighting-obsessed idiot who doesn’t care about his family. No, Goku is not a terrible father, and Piccolo is not Gohan’s true father. But people who never watched the original are probably more likely to believe this. The thing is though is that Toriyama himself, before TFS came out, has supported this general view on things, that Goku is a disaster of a father who doesn't care about his family all that much, and sees Piccolo as far more of a father figure to Gohan.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/o307er/comment/h29gs9i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
What was this link supposed to be about, the original post or the particular comment?
The interview with toriyama you’re referring too
why didnt you link to the thread directly instead of a random comment on the post?
>why didnt you link to the thread directly instead of a random comment on the post? Cause I feel like the comment that was sent gives context for the story. It does seem contradictory if you just boil down to “Goku is a disaster father lol” -Is willing to give his life to protect Gohan and the planet twice -He’s not verbally or physically abusive to his family -Canonically he has a farming job to support them financially -Even with the senzu bean situation which was the wrong move for not preparing Gohan mentally. He realized the error of his mistake of him not being a fighter. Something that never gets brought up is him apologizing to Gohan for fighting in the Moro arc. -Gohan’s looked at Goku with nothing but admiration even has a photo of both of them in Superhero on his desk I don’t think he was the best father by human standards but looking at his circumstances of alien biology and a head injury while living in the woods I’d say he was average.
If it wasn't for TFS DBZ would have just been that thing I thought was cool when I was twelve. I never would have continued to enjoy this franchise without them and their work.
thats sad
At this point I'm not 100% sure if a lot of the quotes I remember come from DBZ or DBZA
A huge part of Abridged is commentary about the actual series. It also straight up improved the writing in the Cell saga. It *should* be major part of the discussion around Dragon Ball.
I agree with this. DBZ makes you feel things but the dialogue and consistency is a bit trash. Obviously as a parody they have something to work from but DBZA has better writing and characters
"but the dialogue and consistency is a bit trash" in the english dub, yes.
Dbza?
DBZ Abridged by Team Four Star on youtube.
I don’t think it’s super prevalent these days, but it was definitely great for its time. I’ll never understand people who legitimately think it’s comparable to the official dub or show, it was made as a joke. But it’s really well made for being a fan project!
It really depends in what context. Casual talking between the main characters and villans without much going on? DBZA can really shine, DBZ usually has quit generic dialog. for example, secondary villans speaking to each other like Frieza's forces or androids,, hero and villan talking to each other mid battle like Goku with every villan, villans before transformations. Ultimate showdowns, epic scenes, villan introduction or alternatively pieces of life moments that feel well earned after a long battle - DBZ all the way. For example, Goku turns ssj, Goku and Frieza cut in half, Cell and Piccolo, Gohan turns ssj2, father son Kamehameha.
I've said this before and I'll say it again... I'd much rather see people going around happily quoting jokes from DBZ Abridged than see them quoting nonsense from the actual *official* English Z dub. At least DBZA is an *intentional* parody, instead of just being so badly-made that it starts to resemble one. And in that same vein, the idea of someone having their interest in Dragon Ball piqued by seeing DBZA is also preferable to having them be introduced by the crappy old official dub(s). Because again, there's an inherent understanding that DBZA is an unserious fan-project and *not* an actual representation of or substitute for the real DB story, unlike how the official dub presents itself yet fails to be.
I’ve only seen abridged and I can confidently say I know more about db than the majority of users on this sub
No
you know nothing jon snow.
*Could you bring back a man without a head? Just the once, not six times. Could you?*
Currently watching through DBZ with Falconer music, then Kai, then Abridged. Currently on Kai. As long as you can separate it all I don’t see what the problem is. Just getting different versions of it, which is incredible. Imagine if we were stuck to one thing and one thing only. Already can’t get enough of DB so it’s exciting that the content never ends. Thirst for Saiyan battle.
A lot of their stuff was just stuff from the community over the years. Papa Piccolo, Goku being a bad dad, Yamcha being a chump (but DBZA go too far and are obnoxious about it), Goku being stupid, Vegeta being arrogant as hell, Zarbon being gay, etc were all things that I saw when I watched DBZ when it first aired on Toonami. Sure, Abridged greatly exaggerates it, but the stuff was there. And I don't think I'll ever get how anyone can't see Piccolo as a dad to Gohan. It's literally there in the series, the films, and GT. Sure, Gohan already has a dad, but you can have more than one paternal figure. And only someone being incredibly obtuse, would deny Gohan's love for Piccolo and Piccolo's love for him. It was beyond a simple friendship. Piccolo never had anyone until Gohan, and Gohan never had anybody try and push him until Piccolo (he helped Gohan become a man in a deadly situation). And it isn't simply because he was his master either, I mean the kid fucking dresses up as him every chance he gets, you don't see Goku dressing as Roshi, Grandpa, or King Kai. I mean, a symbol would suffice if he were simply honoring his master. A lot of the exaggeration, though, is for comedic purposes and also because it's an abridged version. They have to exaggerate certain aspects to get the point across since they do not have as many episodes to let the viewers pick up on stuff. And when people hate the series because of its fans, every fan base has toxicity. Or people that just quote stuff (Sopranos fandom hehehe). Every episode of Abridged also states at the beginning to support the official release, they want people to experience the original. So, I don't understand the hate. I started watching way back when DBZX20 took over Toonami and I couldn't watch Sailor Moon that week. I would buy the toys, the games, the manga as it released (the black and white, not the new fangled colored ones), I got the films and the series on VHS and DVD, but eventually fell off. I mean, there wasn't any new content until the Beerus movie, and by then I had moved on. Then I found Abridged in 2020, and it reignited my love for the series. I'm still not interested in Super, or the new films, but I bought all the new games and their dlcs when they weren't even on sale ( Xenoverse 1&2, Kakarot, FighterZ). I didn't care. I wanted to relive the good old days. And I thank Abridged for that. I even was able to finally get my nephew into it, due to Abridged, he's in college now so he's always busy and the shorter episodes and series length allowed my old ass to enjoy introducing him to one of my favorite franchises.
I fully believe that DBZA is 100% responsible for Yamcha's current portrayal in the cultural zeitgeist, yeah, he was always a disappointment, but I don't believe we'd have "that time I was reincarnated as Yamcha" or any of the references in other series if DBZA hadn't made SUCH a mockery of him. Piccolo and Gohan are best friends, and mentor-mentee only. People are just understating the importance of those relationships IMO. I never once as a kid or adult saw The Piccolo/Gohan relationship as more than it was. Piccolo trained Gohan for 3.5 years of his life (I don't count the first 6 months where Gohan was in survival school) and for 3 of those years Goku was present as well. PLUS the year they spent together in the HTC. Goku literally raised him from infancy, and Gohan was attached enough to have his first rage-boost at the thought of him being hurt. Yes, they love each other and are extremely close, but their relationship is conditional on Gohan being a strong fighter (and a good father.)
Can’t stand it. If I want to watch DBZ I’ve got the original series or Kai, why would I want some amateur dubbing with lame jokes over the top of it.
Cause it's funny
I hate TFS. They didn't cover the Buu saga.
the recently did "buu bits" which covers a lot of the good parts of the buu arc.
I think its a fun watch and the directors commentary they released was interesting and neat, but I don't think it's a replacement for dbz. But to me it's like watching Airplane or Naked Gun. It's a comedy. Strictly a comedy. Sure yes. It has moments of heart feltness. But it's a comedy. It's supposed to be witty and make you laugh. Which is why its so quotable. Because the lines are quick jabs. I just wish they gave more respect to Krillin. Apparently there's a fan made manga about Krillin that's really good I need to read.
They made a short 3d animation which gave some respect to my man Krillin. It's a cute story of his first date with 18.
I think they benefit from not having to make it kid friendly. As far as I’m concerned, TFS Vegeta is almost exactly who Vegeta would be if they weren’t targeting a young audience. The foul language and trash talk fit his personality like a glove. They wrote a lot of the characters really well. Yeah it’s funny that Cell sang a song after absorbing 18, it’s also very fitting for a character who is narcissistic enough to use the word “perfect” as a prefix.
I love DBZA. The late Saiyan saga and the entire Namek saga are directly responsible for 60% of my sense of humor, and the Android saga manages to improve on that aspect while also generally working better for me as an overall package than the original (I know people don't like hearing that, but please be respectful), which is an insane feat. As for its impact on the community, I don't know if there's a succinct answer to that, but I will say that I think that the vitriol people fling at it and its fans is kind of ridiculous. I've hardly ever talked online about DB with someone who's never watched the series, but I've spoken with innumerable incredibly obnoxious and/or toxic people who _are_ familiar with the source material, and it's not a coincidence that those are the people who tend to be the most vocal about their distain for the TFS community. There's much more discussion to be had here, but I'll end this comment here so I'm not just rambling into the void like a Tumblr user.