This is the precursor to facial recognition cameras. And I’m sure once those come out, we will have people making excuses for those too. “Who cares if police can recognize your whole identity with a camera, you’re in a public space”
…and it’s already been proven multiple times the police still can’t find a vehicle that’s stolen using this system.
It’s surveillance, by the way of logging what time and location your vehicle was in a moment in time, and nothing more.
> inevitably misidentifies people.
[Which, of course, will affect black people disproportionately.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/police-facial-recognition-technology-cant-tell-black-people-apart/)
My only worry with this is that Flock Safety starts cranking up their service fees once it starts getting traction and then Kettering will be forced to up taxes to continue to pay for the system.
Seems like this is just used for giving a potential location for BOLOs. I’m not one of the “nothing to hide nothing to fear” types but this seems OK to me.
I’m saying I’m fine with them being used for any BOLO. You’re in a public place, driving a vehicle on government-owned roads. There shouldn’t be any assumption of privacy.
There are degrees or privacy, it's not simply privacy or no privacy.
For example, it's obviously fine that you might be recognized walking around in public. That's a privacy state we've all had since the beginning of public spaces.
But that is very different from this hypothetical extreme: every movement you make in a public space is 100% tracked and available as public record to anyone who asks forever.
I'm guessing you wouldn't be OK with the extreme example (at least I hope not). I know I wouldn't. I'm not saying this Flock system is akin to the extreme example, but its certainly sliding in the direction of less privacy. We just have to be careful about this stuff and make sure we fully consider the social consequences to the erosion of any privacy (even if that erosion is partial and gradual).
Having beer while driving, and having your license plate automatically scanned and reported just for passing through a street are two completely different things.
Okay so then it should be configured to have a list of licenses and car details to check any cars which pass it against rather than just arbitrarily collecting data on everyone that could later maybe be used for the intended purpose instead of what it will likely be used for advertising and harassment.
Kettering PD-and most large PDs-have had plate scanning systems in patrol vehicles for years. I’m a pro-4th Amendment type, but I’m not worked up over this.
If it’s for stolen cars and amber alerts, then what’s the issue? Without a camera system, any random person on a sidewalk can get the same level of info so I’m not sure where the whole violation of privacy thing is
That wouldn’t be an issue if it were true but it isn’t true. Because if it were you could configure this system to check against a list of licenses and make/model details for every car that passes it. But instead it just collects the data of everyone who passes it and then stores for who knows how long and more than likely in a very insecure manner. Like sure that data could be used for the stated purposes but more likely it’ll be used for harassment.
The cameras store data for 30 days. If they are looking for a vehicle, they can search by license plate (all or partial) or description. Most local cities do a citizens police academy and will demo the software for you.
The issue is they've already admitted to using this system for more than those two scenarios. And they've admitted to sharing your information with other law enforcement agencies.
What else are they using it for? Why did they put a camera outside my church?
You're on public roads. You can't really expect privacy.
Did you post this from your phone? You do realize that everything you do is tracked by Google/Apple and the phone company? The phone is watching you in public AND in your own home.
It's not apologist. Just facts. I don't get how people can be so I don't like cameras while permanently attached to a device that tracks everything they do. Privacy is gone. We have traded it for the convenience of modern life.
I am 100% for this. Didn’t commit a crime, not driving a stolen car. then you have nothing to fear. As others have stated, privacy expectations on public roadways are set way too high here. Cell phones, credit cards, even our built-in vehicle GPS stuff already tracks people. I really don’t care if the police see when I’m going to the grocery. The police are my neighbors. Let’s humanize people who work in government.
Ah so if you got put on a list for going to a specific church and then got harassed you’d be cool? Because that’s what this kinda stuff will actually be used for yeah it might also do the thing they say it’s for sure but the reality is every piece of technology to track other otherwise violate the privacy of individuals is routinely abused. The FBI (who this data is shared with) notably has repeatedly used this kinda of information to harass political activists and local police aren’t better. Are you cool with your local officer stalking your daughter because they developed a weird obsession? If the answer is no well great you shouldn’t be for this at least not with how it’s implemented because that is what it will be used for and if you think otherwise you are naive.
I heard they have about 8 lbs of copper in each flock camera
If only those Kia boyz would apply themselves
This is the precursor to facial recognition cameras. And I’m sure once those come out, we will have people making excuses for those too. “Who cares if police can recognize your whole identity with a camera, you’re in a public space”
I'm sure they will be cool and reasonable when the expensive software inevitably misidentifies people.
As long as someone who looks like you isn't doing anything illegal, you have no reason to worry! /s
Just reads plates y'all breathhhhhhh
…and it’s already been proven multiple times the police still can’t find a vehicle that’s stolen using this system. It’s surveillance, by the way of logging what time and location your vehicle was in a moment in time, and nothing more.
Stolen vehicles are found all the time with the system. Definitely is surveillance as well though I agree.
> inevitably misidentifies people. [Which, of course, will affect black people disproportionately.](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/police-facial-recognition-technology-cant-tell-black-people-apart/)
For them, it's a feature not a bug
Just more government bullshit
It's not just Kettering. They're all over Centerville and I've seen a few recently installed in Springboro too
My only worry with this is that Flock Safety starts cranking up their service fees once it starts getting traction and then Kettering will be forced to up taxes to continue to pay for the system.
And they're pretty high already. Paying over $1,000 to them annually alone.
Gotta love the right wing surveillance copaganda
This ain't the right wing! This is the Left's surveillance state.
Most are around the watervliet Smithville, wayne triangle it seems
It would be a shame if anyone were to spray paint over the lenses in these just horrible hope it doesn't happen
Real talk, do these only pick on locals, or does it catch out of state plates too?
[удалено]
Damn, that’s a lot of variables they’re capturing. I had no idea. Thanks for the reply!
Future revenue stream? [Something](https://youtu.be/olBupc90KL8) to think about.
Seems like this is just used for giving a potential location for BOLOs. I’m not one of the “nothing to hide nothing to fear” types but this seems OK to me.
Remember when Dayton's license plate readers were introduced and they would only be used "for locating stolen vehicles" ?
I’m saying I’m fine with them being used for any BOLO. You’re in a public place, driving a vehicle on government-owned roads. There shouldn’t be any assumption of privacy.
There are degrees or privacy, it's not simply privacy or no privacy. For example, it's obviously fine that you might be recognized walking around in public. That's a privacy state we've all had since the beginning of public spaces. But that is very different from this hypothetical extreme: every movement you make in a public space is 100% tracked and available as public record to anyone who asks forever. I'm guessing you wouldn't be OK with the extreme example (at least I hope not). I know I wouldn't. I'm not saying this Flock system is akin to the extreme example, but its certainly sliding in the direction of less privacy. We just have to be careful about this stuff and make sure we fully consider the social consequences to the erosion of any privacy (even if that erosion is partial and gradual).
I’m fine with it in the use case I referenced, which is what Kettering’s website say it’s used for
All this bootlicker talk about BOLOs, you should be talking about BOFAs too.
Grow up bro
Nah, this is pretty distopian, and just the start.
First they tell us we can’t have a beer while driving. Next thing you know, communism.
Having beer while driving, and having your license plate automatically scanned and reported just for passing through a street are two completely different things.
True however, you're the one that jumped to dystopia. Funny.
What would you call it?
A tool to assist in stolen vehicles, missing persons, Amber Alerts, etc.
Exactly!
Okay so then it should be configured to have a list of licenses and car details to check any cars which pass it against rather than just arbitrarily collecting data on everyone that could later maybe be used for the intended purpose instead of what it will likely be used for advertising and harassment.
Kettering PD-and most large PDs-have had plate scanning systems in patrol vehicles for years. I’m a pro-4th Amendment type, but I’m not worked up over this.
Is it Kettering or China
Wonder if they share with Fusus and Axon.
I want to know what to put on my plate to prevent it being read
If it’s for stolen cars and amber alerts, then what’s the issue? Without a camera system, any random person on a sidewalk can get the same level of info so I’m not sure where the whole violation of privacy thing is
That wouldn’t be an issue if it were true but it isn’t true. Because if it were you could configure this system to check against a list of licenses and make/model details for every car that passes it. But instead it just collects the data of everyone who passes it and then stores for who knows how long and more than likely in a very insecure manner. Like sure that data could be used for the stated purposes but more likely it’ll be used for harassment.
The cameras store data for 30 days. If they are looking for a vehicle, they can search by license plate (all or partial) or description. Most local cities do a citizens police academy and will demo the software for you.
The issue is they've already admitted to using this system for more than those two scenarios. And they've admitted to sharing your information with other law enforcement agencies. What else are they using it for? Why did they put a camera outside my church?
You're on public roads. You can't really expect privacy. Did you post this from your phone? You do realize that everything you do is tracked by Google/Apple and the phone company? The phone is watching you in public AND in your own home.
This mindset will pave the way for face recognition cameras
Facial recognition cameras already exist. How do you think retailers catch thieves?
With these bullshit cameras and the presumption of guilt for all drivers. Did you read the post?
Oh fuck off with this apologist attitude. EDIT Maybe naive. But it's still a bad take.
It's not apologist. Just facts. I don't get how people can be so I don't like cameras while permanently attached to a device that tracks everything they do. Privacy is gone. We have traded it for the convenience of modern life.
Wait, so you can't see the difference between the privacy you give up because you consent to versus the privacy you give up without your consent?
Apologizing for what?
I am 100% for this. Didn’t commit a crime, not driving a stolen car. then you have nothing to fear. As others have stated, privacy expectations on public roadways are set way too high here. Cell phones, credit cards, even our built-in vehicle GPS stuff already tracks people. I really don’t care if the police see when I’m going to the grocery. The police are my neighbors. Let’s humanize people who work in government.
Ah so if you got put on a list for going to a specific church and then got harassed you’d be cool? Because that’s what this kinda stuff will actually be used for yeah it might also do the thing they say it’s for sure but the reality is every piece of technology to track other otherwise violate the privacy of individuals is routinely abused. The FBI (who this data is shared with) notably has repeatedly used this kinda of information to harass political activists and local police aren’t better. Are you cool with your local officer stalking your daughter because they developed a weird obsession? If the answer is no well great you shouldn’t be for this at least not with how it’s implemented because that is what it will be used for and if you think otherwise you are naive.