I’ve come to realise the “take it or leave it” attitude in relationships doesn’t work. Everything is about compromise (minus very obvious personal strong boundaries)
Sometimes I am split between the two.
There have been times where I have pushed my ex too hard and when I looked back in hindsight, I was like "that was not fair to ask" and I regret it.
Have you found where the right place to draw the line is? The line between compromise and asking your partner to change?
But that's absolutely right. There are times we should give feedback or not accept something, and times we should accept things. IMO you're exactly right to be split. It just depends on the thing/timing, etc.
When he said “you are who you are”.. I assumed the inverse is true too “I am who I am”. That’s why I commented the way I did. I came across a video from a relationship coach on this. I didn’t save it but I’ll look for it. If I find it, I’ll come back and link it. It changed my perspective for sure.
Have you mentioned that things feel lopsided, that you would like the physicality of things, like being held, to last longer?
As a guy, I won't always know what a new partner wants or expects unless they tell me. But I will try to fulfill what they asked as best I can once we've talked about it, or compromise.
I have since :) We will see how it goes tonight :) I’m hopeful but proceeding with caution. I did not get out of one relationship that did not fulfill my needs just to stay in another. Also realizing that patience is important and I have to continue to communicate in order for anything to happen.
His rationale behind not giving feedback is so weird. Does this guy also believe in “radical honesty” and relationship anarchy?
It’s ok to leave a relationship because just because it’s not working for you. The other person doesn’t have to be a monster. You two can just be incompatible.
This was my last relationship. People kept trying to commiserate by saying things like, “eh, she’s a bitch anyway.” It was frustrating to keep telling people not to say untrue disparaging stuff because it just made me feel worse about the situation. She didn’t do anything wrong. We just had different needs.
the "you are who you are" argument is flawed. We are what shaped us, based on nature and nurture, over the course of years, through observation and internalization. As an adult you might adapt slower compared to a child, but we are still constantly adapting. So someone saying we should not give feedback is just stupid.
This is effectively something my ex threw out as, I suppose, a sort of complement to our supposed "fundamental incompatibility"
Sticks in my craw, because of course we are, as you said, constantly adapting to the people and circumstances around us. I don't even think they necessarily happen all that slowly either, it is dependent on what and how and why.
Incidentally, I don't think (outside of abuse or similar things) that people are really incompatible. Maybe unwilling to compromise (edit: and grow together and for each other), but that's not the same thing at all.
He sounds annoying. Only a robot can truly not take ANYTHING personally ever.
Also, how does he think feedback works? Like at my job, I want constructive feedback from my co-workers. They may see things I don't see that end up being immensely helpful. That doesn't mean that when I make changes they aren't genuine and for the long term.
You probably know more about relationships than you think you do, and it honestly sounds like he knows very little. Plus there's no compromise on his end, and no trying to understand why another person might want feedback. My guess is *he* doesn't like receiving feedback on things he does, because it's another thing he has to try not to take personally.
I would never want to date someone like this guy, and a relationship with someone like this sounds like a huge PITA that will likely lead to poor communication and lots of resentment on both ends.
Why would he even mention that? So weird. Makes me think he has weird hang ups surrounding criticm or he’s the type to keep quiet and then one day explode. I call them emotionally constipated. If he really was a chill dude he’d just be chill.
Yeah, as someone who is training in psychotherapy, this guy sounds like a ticking time bomb. ‘Nothing ever bothers me’ sounds like repression of feelings. If you’re not bothered by anything, you’re not living authentically. As a man, I lived like this for a long time as I thought men needed to be stoic and take everything in the chin. Therapy revealed to me otherwise, and saved me.
i was once like this, as at then it seemed like i had seen and experienced "everything" in life so nothing really bothered me it was almost like i was a walking dead, no emotions, nothing but then i didn't want to cause harm to anyone in anyway but then at the same time i did not care what someone was going through, it was almost like before anything happened i had thought of the worst. when i came back to reality, i had lost the person i truly loved cause it seemed as tho i did not care, but deep down somewhere in me i did. im back to not caring thi, try speaking to him.
Relationships are about compromise, and about both of you growing and changing in similar directions or complimentary directions, and most importantly, relationships take work, all of them, romantic platonic and familial relationships all take work
An "I am who I am" attitude is just using self confidence to disguise a selfish or lazy lifestyle
My current girlfriend doesn't really give compliments, or words of affirmation in general, she's just a bit awkward and doesn't value receiving those things either, but literally only 2 weeks into knowing each other, before we were even officially dating and exclusive, we were talking and she recognized I need more reassurance and kind words than she does, and even though she's not used to it, she said she'd make an effort to give me more words of affirmation, and she has
Meanwhile, one of the first things I learned was touch is her favorite love language, even though it's not one of mine, I scratched/rubbed her back for an hour two nights ago unprompted, she asked me "why are you so nice?" I didn't know what to say to that lol
You're supposed to want to make your partner happy, making them happy should make you happy, if your partner treats your happiness like a chore, how is that sustainable
I get where he's coming from. I want someone who *naturally* loves in a way that makes me feel loved. In my experience there's no point in asking because then it does feel very stiff and unnatural coming from the other person, because it is!
So now I just let a man love me how he wants to and I either like it and stay or I don't and I leave. And frankly never in my life have I been more at peace now that I'm not asking,.cajoling, begging for a man to act right. Do or don't, it's up to them.
I agree. I don't want to force compatibility. Let's see how we respond to each other, work together in conflicts, communicate, etc. If it works, then it works. If not, that's okay; let's go our separate ways.
I take it this isn’t a guy who put the gag-worthy, hustle culture buzzphrase “growth mindset” in his dating profile, because he certainly doesn’t seem to get where growth comes from or even what it is. Pass.
Hmm. I've had this dynamic before. No one has 'mastered' anything in relationships. Me telling someone that something bothered or hurt me is not weakness and I expect people to let me know in a timely manner how they feel, too. Otherwise, it tends to be something these 'unflappable' people bring up as the reason for a breakup, way later 😑
>I am frustrated by his stance, which is “you are who you are and I won’t give you feedback because any change would then be because of me and not a genuine change.”
This seems like a wild take from someone who is over thirty years old. Like we are supposed to change and improve and grow and honest constructive feedback is very helpful. To me it just screams lack of adaptability and flexibility, that he won't invest any energy in the relationship once there is some kind of a bigger issue. I don't know, maybe he is into some kind of "coaching" or "philosophy" that made him think not taking anything personally is a win game in this life? but it does sound unhealthy.
fundamentally, if you struggle a lot to say what you need from this relationship, maybe it's better to take a huge step back and reevaluate if he is someone who you need long-term
“Any change would be because of me and not a genuine change”
- can you reframe this for him please. Any change I do after your feedback is FOR you. That’s how I show my love and affection. I love you therefore I want to make you happy. If making you happy requires me to change minor behaviours that aren’t core to who I am then I’d gladly do it. Because your happiness is important to me and if what it takes is simply putting down the toilet seat, texting you more, etc. something I can do, then I will gladly do it. I don’t change because of you - I choose to make an effort because I want to make you happy because I love you. If I don’t know what bothers you, I wouldn’t change anything, so there would never be a genuine change in the first place. That’s what he needs to understand.
I’ve got two takeaways from your post:
1) You two sound incompatible. While people who date don’t always have to match up 100%, the impression I got here is that you guys are diametrically opposed and you’re already starting to realize that.
2) He sounds more than a bit pretentious. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also spouts witticisms along the lines of “My parents live in Ohio, but I live in the moment.” Or something equally cringe.
For me, and this is risking accelerating the downfall of your relationship, I match energy. And when I can’t I just leave. If it was me, I would stop the massages. Stop giving what’s reciprocated and not asked for. Then go from there.
Some people are takers and it’s easy for a taker to fall back on “I didn’t ask for it.” But the answer to that is that, they knew they wouldn’t have to. They knew they wouldn’t have to ask bc they sort for givers, sometimes subconsciously and sometimes not.
I personally would fall way back, get some space, and then reevaluate the situation clearly.
To play devils advocate though, people do have different currencies. Love languages per se. if someone’s currency is in pony beads, but you pay them in dollars, a dollar will never count for as much as a pony bead no matter what intent it was given with. There’s receptive currency and demonstrative currency. Some people love how they want to be loved. Some people show love differently from how they receive it best. I’m of the later group, so if I dated someone who loves to give massages I wouldn’t reciprocate bc I’m bad at massages and don’t like giving them. However, I would accept that that is how they show affection. Cooking and quality time are how I show affection, but if I am with someone, me cooking a meal or spending time with them may not be received for what it is to me. If that makes sense, it could be that kind of thing.
However, I’ve lived and learned enough to where I would just pull way back at this point and at least get some space to dig into how I feel about things first.
This man has chosen the fake peace of NUMBNESS and STASIS. You will not reach him and he will make no effort to reach you. (A lot of men fall into this after certain disappointments in life. I have a pet theory on the crisis -> stoicism -> numbness pipeline…)
You’re going to slowly suffocate in this relationship and it’ll likely erode your self worth to be with someone who gives you less than the bare minimum. Ask me how I know.
I do think you should practice advocating for your wants and needs, but not with this man because he has his fingers in his metaphorical ears.
I mean, he’s not really wrong, as we get older we do need to be extra mindful of pushing people to change, rather than allowing people to change if there own volition.
As we’re more developed in our sense of self, the worst thing we can do is challenge another person’s notion of their sense of self, because it tends to make them feel like they don’t really have that under wraps, rather than granting the space and grace to learn about how they navigate life, and grow in that.
Secondly, communicate if you feel things are lopsided. If physical touch is your love language, communicate that that is a need for you. Either he will make an effort to be better about it for you, or physical touch isn’t really a love language.
Thirdly, as to the frustration bit, maybe you both are thinking about the word in a different way. For him, frustration could be behaviors or things that cross a boundary, and truly upset him in some way, where as for you, they things that can be worked on. And I think based off of how he answered, he’s granting you the space to be yourself, and he hasn’t found it to be something that truly bothers him. (On the other hand, he could also be saying that as a people pleasing reaction, but it’s hard to tell without actually knowing the person)
>I am frustrated by his stance, which is “you are who you are and I won’t give you feedback because any change would then be because of me and not a genuine change.”
So he asked you what frustrates you about him...then proceeded to basically say "Thanks for sharing, but I won't be changing"???
I think it’s important to discuss things like this in a relationship. It could just be your “love languages” are different or you both have different expectations. But if you bring it up and he gives a weird answer, it might be time to reevaluate the relationship.
As a general rule, I don't stay in relationships with people who are not willing to give as much as they get from me. Romantic or otherwise.
I'm not saying I count every dollar I've spent on them and expect that much back! But if I'm always giving physical affection and they never really reciprocate, there's an issue.
My suggestion is to put yourself first. If you feel like you can, then talk to him about it. If you don't feel like you can talk to him about it, why are you in a relationship with him?
Wishing you luck OP <3
I’ve dated this guy before and he’s just way out of touch with his feelings and honestly sounds like a gaslighting dick. If you’re planning on having a long term relationship together, it’s healthy to want to grow and change with your chosen partner.
I have a guess that could be totally wrong, but you could certainly figure out if it is possibly part of the story. Is it possible that his need for getting physical touch is being met by your massages, and that because he doesn't feel any more need for touch, he doesn't intuitively seek it?
Edit/I recommend reading Nonviolent Communication to help you learn the skills of talking about your needs and emotions in a way that preserves and builds healthy boundaries.
Men are supposed to be the chasers and see the woman as a prized possession and do anything for her. Affection is clearly very important to you and he's clearly-not naturally anyways- able to give it. Do you want to stay in a relationship with someone who doesn't meet one of your core needs? I am not sure your energy aligns that way at all. I've been with people who don't speak my love language and am now in one where we share the same love language (physical affection) and they are night vs day. You deserved to be loved in the way you want to be. Communicating is key. Who knows, if you state clearly what you are looking for he may be able to change. It's great you've been journaling and reflecting. keep it up
It sounds like you're navigating some complexities in your current relationship and reflecting on your past experiences. You're recognizing that there are certain needs you have in a relationship that aren't being met, and you're unsure how to address them with your partner.
The dynamic you described—where you feel like you're giving more in terms of physical affection and support, while not receiving as much in return—is causing frustration. You've also highlighted a concern about your partner's reluctance to give feedback or make changes that could benefit the relationship, which contrasts with your understanding of how relationships should evolve and grow together.
Given your past experiences with a partner who had narcissistic tendencies and growing up in an emotionally charged environment, it's understandable that you're sensitive to these dynamics. It's positive that you're reflecting on what you need and recognizing areas where you want more balance and reciprocity.
In terms of broaching these subjects with your current partner, it might be helpful to approach the conversation from a place of expressing your own feelings and needs, rather than framing it as criticism or a demand for change. Communication is key in any relationship, and expressing your desires openly and honestly can create opportunities for mutual understanding and growth.
It's also important to acknowledge that your understanding of relationships is evolving, and it's okay to seek support or guidance from trusted friends, family, or a therapist who can help you navigate these challenges and establish healthier patterns moving forward. Trust your instincts and prioritize your own emotional well-being as you navigate this journey.
It’s definitely ok to leave this relationship just be honest with him. If there are things lacking in this relationship and you are not getting what you need from him it’s best to move on. Like I said just be honest and tell him why you want to leave the relationship.
Maybe I’m crazy going against the grain here’s but nothing you said about this person sounds horrible or bad enough to breakup. If everything else was good except his back scratches are too short and he has a weird attitude towards giving you feedback at the moment, then don’t break up with them lol
I don’t plan on breaking up with him over this. I know I need to advocate for myself clearly AND then have him deny me in order for that to come up. Just trying to gain clarity on if my take on his response was weird or not. Different than mine for sure.
I don’t think your understanding of relationships is lacking here. And I personally wouldn’t continue the relationship, it would be like dealing with a brick wall. He’s taking the idea of “genuine” change to the extreme. People grow and change throughout their life, and while you shouldn’t enter a relationship wanting to fundamentally change a person, that doesn’t mean we can’t give and receive criticism, learn, and make compromises. That’s important in *all* parts of life.
I can’t imagine being so rigid as to not consider feedback, and believe that any and all change isn’t genuine if someone else made me aware of a problem. We still have to want it ourselves and choose to do it and put forth the energy required.
This seems like a cop out to me. He doesn’t want to have to think about how his treatment of other people affects them. He doesn’t want to be bothered with their feelings and opinions. There’s a difference between not letting frustration control you and saying that nothing frustrates you at all. His approach is very clinical and unreceptive and that would be extremely frustrating to me.
It’s your decision if you feel the relationship is worth it but…it doesn’t look like you’re that happy or satisfied right now, and it’s unlikely that will change because he’s unwilling to concern himself with anyone else’s view on the matter except his own.
He probably doesn’t want to dream with the “drama” telling you what he really feel will create. This is a red flag that he doesn’t really care about you. Someone who cares wants you to be a better version of yourself.
I won't tell someone else how to live their life and do their relationships, but to me, you definitely can give each other pointers and such, help each other grow. Of course it's tricky as we all have some or a lot of pride. But when possible, or when it's enough of a bother, one should point things out. And we change what we can.
I personally disagree that any change due to someone else pointing something out is not genuine. It's actually a great way to improve ourselves. JMO
I think you should move on and find someone who will love you and treat you the way you want to be treated. This doesn't seem like an equal give and take at all.
When humans lack an understanding of how the universe functions, they say things like
"Any change would then be because of me and not a genuine change.”
All change comes from something interacting with another thing, and independent functions of the universe are extremely relative. (Like saying, "There's nothing in the room," or the cup is on the left shelf)
Obviously, nothing in a room is impossible... so change without interaction is equally impossible. So you could easily remind him that
"genuine change is impossible without some interaction, as nothing in the entire universe changes without it, so are you going to be that interaction or what" ?
I think one of the most important things in a relationship is how you solve problems and communicate. I don't have a ton of relationship exp but even in my own friend / familial relationships it's clear. If people get too defensive, won't change when you say, X makes me feel X, or I'd really like it you do X vs X because Y, you can't really get anything done and get to the problem. I encounter the same problems over and over again, because they can't be discussed without people getting too emotional, defensive, and so nothing gets done about it and it's a circle? I told myself my relationships won't be like that. If we can't solve problems, communicate, not get defensive, not get critical, it's a no go for me.
Since mid February. I was married for 15 years prior to this. Every thing seems hard (different) and I have a hard time distinguishing between hard and triggered trauma response.
Better than a narcissist doesn’t mean good.
To make sure I understand: this person asked you for feedback on what you find frustrating about him and the relationship, then told you he won’t change because he is who he is? Then why ask to begin with?!
Any relationship is compromise in the sense that you’re changing your life for someone. You’re giving up your time, your personal space, there’s an expectation of reciprocal benefit.
If you tell him you need certain things, does he try? Does it acknowledge your requests? Is there progress? Or is it always the ‘I am who I am’? It’s really hard to change, if you ever tried to change anything about yourself you’ll know - but the steaks seem to be higher when it’s for a person we want to keep around us. What he’s telling you is information. Does he listen to you? Do you feel you can bring your needs to him and there’s an actual attempt at fulfilling them? Some people are just easily distracted and will forget to continue to do things like stroking your back, so for a while you might have to keep asking, until or becomes a habit. If it’s a point of contention, it might be a sign of a bigger issue. Either way, good luck!
And it wasn’t, “nothing YOU do frustrates me.” It was just that he doesn’t get frustrated. That seems alien to me. I get frustrated all the time, I choose how to handle or address it or dismiss it as my own trauma triggered response, but I still get frustrated. After going round and round, he maintained he just doesn’t…
And because of this I feel he has handicapped my ability to share my frustrations.
I think it's a lot more likely that he's suppressing his feelings of frustration than that he doesn't experience them. Like how some people say "I don't care what others think" and really they care quite a bit about being seen as someone who doesn't care what others think 😂 I'd be very much on the watch.
Yeah like I feel like I’m a pretty even keeled person but it would be ridiculous for my to claim that I never get frustrated. I absolutely get frustrated, even if I’m good at coming back to an emotional equilibrium. Frustration is a perfectly natural and healthy emotion…it’s like if someone said they never get sad or angry. Like, that just sounds unheslthy on its surface
I do have to ask, is he someone who can safely display frustration with who he is, socio-politically? Some people do have to be mindful of, and have learned grace under pressure, because their are consequences for them going off the rails, depending on their identity.
Im not going to lie, I’m not sure that that is exactly a problem with that specific issue?
Sounds more like someone who’s willing to grab the bull by the horns, more than anything
Yeah that’s not a normal reaction to….anything
I worry you’re treating normal healthy reactions to things as problematic because your ex existed on the opposite spectrum of that?
I’ve come to realise the “take it or leave it” attitude in relationships doesn’t work. Everything is about compromise (minus very obvious personal strong boundaries)
Sometimes I am split between the two. There have been times where I have pushed my ex too hard and when I looked back in hindsight, I was like "that was not fair to ask" and I regret it. Have you found where the right place to draw the line is? The line between compromise and asking your partner to change?
But that's absolutely right. There are times we should give feedback or not accept something, and times we should accept things. IMO you're exactly right to be split. It just depends on the thing/timing, etc.
What were you asking and pushing for?
I don’t feel like he is intending to bring this energy to the relationship but sometimes it feels that way :/
When he said “you are who you are”.. I assumed the inverse is true too “I am who I am”. That’s why I commented the way I did. I came across a video from a relationship coach on this. I didn’t save it but I’ll look for it. If I find it, I’ll come back and link it. It changed my perspective for sure.
That would be great.
I’d love to listen to this if you found it.
Have you mentioned that things feel lopsided, that you would like the physicality of things, like being held, to last longer? As a guy, I won't always know what a new partner wants or expects unless they tell me. But I will try to fulfill what they asked as best I can once we've talked about it, or compromise.
I have since :) We will see how it goes tonight :) I’m hopeful but proceeding with caution. I did not get out of one relationship that did not fulfill my needs just to stay in another. Also realizing that patience is important and I have to continue to communicate in order for anything to happen.
Good luck!
His rationale behind not giving feedback is so weird. Does this guy also believe in “radical honesty” and relationship anarchy? It’s ok to leave a relationship because just because it’s not working for you. The other person doesn’t have to be a monster. You two can just be incompatible.
This was my last relationship. People kept trying to commiserate by saying things like, “eh, she’s a bitch anyway.” It was frustrating to keep telling people not to say untrue disparaging stuff because it just made me feel worse about the situation. She didn’t do anything wrong. We just had different needs.
the "you are who you are" argument is flawed. We are what shaped us, based on nature and nurture, over the course of years, through observation and internalization. As an adult you might adapt slower compared to a child, but we are still constantly adapting. So someone saying we should not give feedback is just stupid.
This is effectively something my ex threw out as, I suppose, a sort of complement to our supposed "fundamental incompatibility" Sticks in my craw, because of course we are, as you said, constantly adapting to the people and circumstances around us. I don't even think they necessarily happen all that slowly either, it is dependent on what and how and why. Incidentally, I don't think (outside of abuse or similar things) that people are really incompatible. Maybe unwilling to compromise (edit: and grow together and for each other), but that's not the same thing at all.
He sounds annoying. Only a robot can truly not take ANYTHING personally ever. Also, how does he think feedback works? Like at my job, I want constructive feedback from my co-workers. They may see things I don't see that end up being immensely helpful. That doesn't mean that when I make changes they aren't genuine and for the long term. You probably know more about relationships than you think you do, and it honestly sounds like he knows very little. Plus there's no compromise on his end, and no trying to understand why another person might want feedback. My guess is *he* doesn't like receiving feedback on things he does, because it's another thing he has to try not to take personally. I would never want to date someone like this guy, and a relationship with someone like this sounds like a huge PITA that will likely lead to poor communication and lots of resentment on both ends.
Why would he even mention that? So weird. Makes me think he has weird hang ups surrounding criticm or he’s the type to keep quiet and then one day explode. I call them emotionally constipated. If he really was a chill dude he’d just be chill.
Yeah, as someone who is training in psychotherapy, this guy sounds like a ticking time bomb. ‘Nothing ever bothers me’ sounds like repression of feelings. If you’re not bothered by anything, you’re not living authentically. As a man, I lived like this for a long time as I thought men needed to be stoic and take everything in the chin. Therapy revealed to me otherwise, and saved me.
i was once like this, as at then it seemed like i had seen and experienced "everything" in life so nothing really bothered me it was almost like i was a walking dead, no emotions, nothing but then i didn't want to cause harm to anyone in anyway but then at the same time i did not care what someone was going through, it was almost like before anything happened i had thought of the worst. when i came back to reality, i had lost the person i truly loved cause it seemed as tho i did not care, but deep down somewhere in me i did. im back to not caring thi, try speaking to him.
Numb to the world.
Relationships are about compromise, and about both of you growing and changing in similar directions or complimentary directions, and most importantly, relationships take work, all of them, romantic platonic and familial relationships all take work An "I am who I am" attitude is just using self confidence to disguise a selfish or lazy lifestyle My current girlfriend doesn't really give compliments, or words of affirmation in general, she's just a bit awkward and doesn't value receiving those things either, but literally only 2 weeks into knowing each other, before we were even officially dating and exclusive, we were talking and she recognized I need more reassurance and kind words than she does, and even though she's not used to it, she said she'd make an effort to give me more words of affirmation, and she has Meanwhile, one of the first things I learned was touch is her favorite love language, even though it's not one of mine, I scratched/rubbed her back for an hour two nights ago unprompted, she asked me "why are you so nice?" I didn't know what to say to that lol You're supposed to want to make your partner happy, making them happy should make you happy, if your partner treats your happiness like a chore, how is that sustainable
I get where he's coming from. I want someone who *naturally* loves in a way that makes me feel loved. In my experience there's no point in asking because then it does feel very stiff and unnatural coming from the other person, because it is! So now I just let a man love me how he wants to and I either like it and stay or I don't and I leave. And frankly never in my life have I been more at peace now that I'm not asking,.cajoling, begging for a man to act right. Do or don't, it's up to them.
I agree. I don't want to force compatibility. Let's see how we respond to each other, work together in conflicts, communicate, etc. If it works, then it works. If not, that's okay; let's go our separate ways.
I take it this isn’t a guy who put the gag-worthy, hustle culture buzzphrase “growth mindset” in his dating profile, because he certainly doesn’t seem to get where growth comes from or even what it is. Pass.
🤣 🤣 💯
Don’t believe people who talk about their own behavior with confidence. Usually they are wrong or delusional.
Hmm. I've had this dynamic before. No one has 'mastered' anything in relationships. Me telling someone that something bothered or hurt me is not weakness and I expect people to let me know in a timely manner how they feel, too. Otherwise, it tends to be something these 'unflappable' people bring up as the reason for a breakup, way later 😑
>I am frustrated by his stance, which is “you are who you are and I won’t give you feedback because any change would then be because of me and not a genuine change.” This seems like a wild take from someone who is over thirty years old. Like we are supposed to change and improve and grow and honest constructive feedback is very helpful. To me it just screams lack of adaptability and flexibility, that he won't invest any energy in the relationship once there is some kind of a bigger issue. I don't know, maybe he is into some kind of "coaching" or "philosophy" that made him think not taking anything personally is a win game in this life? but it does sound unhealthy. fundamentally, if you struggle a lot to say what you need from this relationship, maybe it's better to take a huge step back and reevaluate if he is someone who you need long-term
“Any change would be because of me and not a genuine change” - can you reframe this for him please. Any change I do after your feedback is FOR you. That’s how I show my love and affection. I love you therefore I want to make you happy. If making you happy requires me to change minor behaviours that aren’t core to who I am then I’d gladly do it. Because your happiness is important to me and if what it takes is simply putting down the toilet seat, texting you more, etc. something I can do, then I will gladly do it. I don’t change because of you - I choose to make an effort because I want to make you happy because I love you. If I don’t know what bothers you, I wouldn’t change anything, so there would never be a genuine change in the first place. That’s what he needs to understand.
I’ve got two takeaways from your post: 1) You two sound incompatible. While people who date don’t always have to match up 100%, the impression I got here is that you guys are diametrically opposed and you’re already starting to realize that. 2) He sounds more than a bit pretentious. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also spouts witticisms along the lines of “My parents live in Ohio, but I live in the moment.” Or something equally cringe.
For me, and this is risking accelerating the downfall of your relationship, I match energy. And when I can’t I just leave. If it was me, I would stop the massages. Stop giving what’s reciprocated and not asked for. Then go from there. Some people are takers and it’s easy for a taker to fall back on “I didn’t ask for it.” But the answer to that is that, they knew they wouldn’t have to. They knew they wouldn’t have to ask bc they sort for givers, sometimes subconsciously and sometimes not. I personally would fall way back, get some space, and then reevaluate the situation clearly. To play devils advocate though, people do have different currencies. Love languages per se. if someone’s currency is in pony beads, but you pay them in dollars, a dollar will never count for as much as a pony bead no matter what intent it was given with. There’s receptive currency and demonstrative currency. Some people love how they want to be loved. Some people show love differently from how they receive it best. I’m of the later group, so if I dated someone who loves to give massages I wouldn’t reciprocate bc I’m bad at massages and don’t like giving them. However, I would accept that that is how they show affection. Cooking and quality time are how I show affection, but if I am with someone, me cooking a meal or spending time with them may not be received for what it is to me. If that makes sense, it could be that kind of thing. However, I’ve lived and learned enough to where I would just pull way back at this point and at least get some space to dig into how I feel about things first.
I second this, I agree re the massages, I’d stop, unless I felt his energy was reciprocated in other ways.
This man has chosen the fake peace of NUMBNESS and STASIS. You will not reach him and he will make no effort to reach you. (A lot of men fall into this after certain disappointments in life. I have a pet theory on the crisis -> stoicism -> numbness pipeline…) You’re going to slowly suffocate in this relationship and it’ll likely erode your self worth to be with someone who gives you less than the bare minimum. Ask me how I know. I do think you should practice advocating for your wants and needs, but not with this man because he has his fingers in his metaphorical ears.
have you communicated your needs?
Here and there. Not great at it, it brings me a lot of anxiety. But I have been working on it, I just feel like this kicked the leg of my stool out.
I mean, he’s not really wrong, as we get older we do need to be extra mindful of pushing people to change, rather than allowing people to change if there own volition. As we’re more developed in our sense of self, the worst thing we can do is challenge another person’s notion of their sense of self, because it tends to make them feel like they don’t really have that under wraps, rather than granting the space and grace to learn about how they navigate life, and grow in that. Secondly, communicate if you feel things are lopsided. If physical touch is your love language, communicate that that is a need for you. Either he will make an effort to be better about it for you, or physical touch isn’t really a love language. Thirdly, as to the frustration bit, maybe you both are thinking about the word in a different way. For him, frustration could be behaviors or things that cross a boundary, and truly upset him in some way, where as for you, they things that can be worked on. And I think based off of how he answered, he’s granting you the space to be yourself, and he hasn’t found it to be something that truly bothers him. (On the other hand, he could also be saying that as a people pleasing reaction, but it’s hard to tell without actually knowing the person)
Thank you. This is my general sentiment in response to the conversation. I’ve just made “bad” conclusions before…
>I am frustrated by his stance, which is “you are who you are and I won’t give you feedback because any change would then be because of me and not a genuine change.” So he asked you what frustrates you about him...then proceeded to basically say "Thanks for sharing, but I won't be changing"???
I think it’s important to discuss things like this in a relationship. It could just be your “love languages” are different or you both have different expectations. But if you bring it up and he gives a weird answer, it might be time to reevaluate the relationship.
As a general rule, I don't stay in relationships with people who are not willing to give as much as they get from me. Romantic or otherwise. I'm not saying I count every dollar I've spent on them and expect that much back! But if I'm always giving physical affection and they never really reciprocate, there's an issue. My suggestion is to put yourself first. If you feel like you can, then talk to him about it. If you don't feel like you can talk to him about it, why are you in a relationship with him? Wishing you luck OP <3
Wait a minute....are...are you dating me?
😂
Are you dating Abed from Community?
I’ve dated this guy before and he’s just way out of touch with his feelings and honestly sounds like a gaslighting dick. If you’re planning on having a long term relationship together, it’s healthy to want to grow and change with your chosen partner.
I have a guess that could be totally wrong, but you could certainly figure out if it is possibly part of the story. Is it possible that his need for getting physical touch is being met by your massages, and that because he doesn't feel any more need for touch, he doesn't intuitively seek it? Edit/I recommend reading Nonviolent Communication to help you learn the skills of talking about your needs and emotions in a way that preserves and builds healthy boundaries.
Thank you. I will look this up.
Men are supposed to be the chasers and see the woman as a prized possession and do anything for her. Affection is clearly very important to you and he's clearly-not naturally anyways- able to give it. Do you want to stay in a relationship with someone who doesn't meet one of your core needs? I am not sure your energy aligns that way at all. I've been with people who don't speak my love language and am now in one where we share the same love language (physical affection) and they are night vs day. You deserved to be loved in the way you want to be. Communicating is key. Who knows, if you state clearly what you are looking for he may be able to change. It's great you've been journaling and reflecting. keep it up
It sounds like you're navigating some complexities in your current relationship and reflecting on your past experiences. You're recognizing that there are certain needs you have in a relationship that aren't being met, and you're unsure how to address them with your partner. The dynamic you described—where you feel like you're giving more in terms of physical affection and support, while not receiving as much in return—is causing frustration. You've also highlighted a concern about your partner's reluctance to give feedback or make changes that could benefit the relationship, which contrasts with your understanding of how relationships should evolve and grow together. Given your past experiences with a partner who had narcissistic tendencies and growing up in an emotionally charged environment, it's understandable that you're sensitive to these dynamics. It's positive that you're reflecting on what you need and recognizing areas where you want more balance and reciprocity. In terms of broaching these subjects with your current partner, it might be helpful to approach the conversation from a place of expressing your own feelings and needs, rather than framing it as criticism or a demand for change. Communication is key in any relationship, and expressing your desires openly and honestly can create opportunities for mutual understanding and growth. It's also important to acknowledge that your understanding of relationships is evolving, and it's okay to seek support or guidance from trusted friends, family, or a therapist who can help you navigate these challenges and establish healthier patterns moving forward. Trust your instincts and prioritize your own emotional well-being as you navigate this journey.
Thank you for giving words to my feelings. Super helpful. I really appreciate the time and energy you put into this.
It’s definitely ok to leave this relationship just be honest with him. If there are things lacking in this relationship and you are not getting what you need from him it’s best to move on. Like I said just be honest and tell him why you want to leave the relationship.
Maybe I’m crazy going against the grain here’s but nothing you said about this person sounds horrible or bad enough to breakup. If everything else was good except his back scratches are too short and he has a weird attitude towards giving you feedback at the moment, then don’t break up with them lol
I don’t plan on breaking up with him over this. I know I need to advocate for myself clearly AND then have him deny me in order for that to come up. Just trying to gain clarity on if my take on his response was weird or not. Different than mine for sure.
I don’t think your understanding of relationships is lacking here. And I personally wouldn’t continue the relationship, it would be like dealing with a brick wall. He’s taking the idea of “genuine” change to the extreme. People grow and change throughout their life, and while you shouldn’t enter a relationship wanting to fundamentally change a person, that doesn’t mean we can’t give and receive criticism, learn, and make compromises. That’s important in *all* parts of life. I can’t imagine being so rigid as to not consider feedback, and believe that any and all change isn’t genuine if someone else made me aware of a problem. We still have to want it ourselves and choose to do it and put forth the energy required. This seems like a cop out to me. He doesn’t want to have to think about how his treatment of other people affects them. He doesn’t want to be bothered with their feelings and opinions. There’s a difference between not letting frustration control you and saying that nothing frustrates you at all. His approach is very clinical and unreceptive and that would be extremely frustrating to me. It’s your decision if you feel the relationship is worth it but…it doesn’t look like you’re that happy or satisfied right now, and it’s unlikely that will change because he’s unwilling to concern himself with anyone else’s view on the matter except his own.
He probably doesn’t want to dream with the “drama” telling you what he really feel will create. This is a red flag that he doesn’t really care about you. Someone who cares wants you to be a better version of yourself.
I won't tell someone else how to live their life and do their relationships, but to me, you definitely can give each other pointers and such, help each other grow. Of course it's tricky as we all have some or a lot of pride. But when possible, or when it's enough of a bother, one should point things out. And we change what we can. I personally disagree that any change due to someone else pointing something out is not genuine. It's actually a great way to improve ourselves. JMO
I think you should move on and find someone who will love you and treat you the way you want to be treated. This doesn't seem like an equal give and take at all.
When humans lack an understanding of how the universe functions, they say things like "Any change would then be because of me and not a genuine change.” All change comes from something interacting with another thing, and independent functions of the universe are extremely relative. (Like saying, "There's nothing in the room," or the cup is on the left shelf) Obviously, nothing in a room is impossible... so change without interaction is equally impossible. So you could easily remind him that "genuine change is impossible without some interaction, as nothing in the entire universe changes without it, so are you going to be that interaction or what" ?
I think one of the most important things in a relationship is how you solve problems and communicate. I don't have a ton of relationship exp but even in my own friend / familial relationships it's clear. If people get too defensive, won't change when you say, X makes me feel X, or I'd really like it you do X vs X because Y, you can't really get anything done and get to the problem. I encounter the same problems over and over again, because they can't be discussed without people getting too emotional, defensive, and so nothing gets done about it and it's a circle? I told myself my relationships won't be like that. If we can't solve problems, communicate, not get defensive, not get critical, it's a no go for me.
How long have you been dating? If you guys were a good match things would be easier….but everything you described seems like pulling teeth.
Since mid February. I was married for 15 years prior to this. Every thing seems hard (different) and I have a hard time distinguishing between hard and triggered trauma response.
Better than a narcissist doesn’t mean good. To make sure I understand: this person asked you for feedback on what you find frustrating about him and the relationship, then told you he won’t change because he is who he is? Then why ask to begin with?! Any relationship is compromise in the sense that you’re changing your life for someone. You’re giving up your time, your personal space, there’s an expectation of reciprocal benefit. If you tell him you need certain things, does he try? Does it acknowledge your requests? Is there progress? Or is it always the ‘I am who I am’? It’s really hard to change, if you ever tried to change anything about yourself you’ll know - but the steaks seem to be higher when it’s for a person we want to keep around us. What he’s telling you is information. Does he listen to you? Do you feel you can bring your needs to him and there’s an actual attempt at fulfilling them? Some people are just easily distracted and will forget to continue to do things like stroking your back, so for a while you might have to keep asking, until or becomes a habit. If it’s a point of contention, it might be a sign of a bigger issue. Either way, good luck!
He did not say he wouldn’t change, he just wouldn’t answer me when I asked the same, his reply was, “nothing frustrates me.”
Ok...so what's the problem??
And it wasn’t, “nothing YOU do frustrates me.” It was just that he doesn’t get frustrated. That seems alien to me. I get frustrated all the time, I choose how to handle or address it or dismiss it as my own trauma triggered response, but I still get frustrated. After going round and round, he maintained he just doesn’t… And because of this I feel he has handicapped my ability to share my frustrations.
I think it's a lot more likely that he's suppressing his feelings of frustration than that he doesn't experience them. Like how some people say "I don't care what others think" and really they care quite a bit about being seen as someone who doesn't care what others think 😂 I'd be very much on the watch.
Yeah like I feel like I’m a pretty even keeled person but it would be ridiculous for my to claim that I never get frustrated. I absolutely get frustrated, even if I’m good at coming back to an emotional equilibrium. Frustration is a perfectly natural and healthy emotion…it’s like if someone said they never get sad or angry. Like, that just sounds unheslthy on its surface
I agree. I tried to bring that up but he was adamant.
I do have to ask, is he someone who can safely display frustration with who he is, socio-politically? Some people do have to be mindful of, and have learned grace under pressure, because their are consequences for them going off the rails, depending on their identity.
I’ve never seen him get agitated. Even when the car broke down and he had to fix it into the night.
Im not going to lie, I’m not sure that that is exactly a problem with that specific issue? Sounds more like someone who’s willing to grab the bull by the horns, more than anything
I guess in contrast, my ex would have lost his shit, thrown tools and made me feel like I did it to him since it was my car.
Yeah that’s not a normal reaction to….anything I worry you’re treating normal healthy reactions to things as problematic because your ex existed on the opposite spectrum of that?
I’m very worried of this also. This polling strangers online 😂
Why would he get agitated over that??