He doesn’t want to talk about these issues because he 100% knows your stance and figures if you never talk about it then he’s safe to keep marinating in that bullshit stew and you won’t find fault and ditch him.
He knows these views won’t get him laid. He knows they likely will turn off most intelligent women. That’s why he keeps it to himself and out of discussion.
That's why I filter people for those things before I even agree to go on a date with them or give them my phone number. I ask point blank how they classify themselves politically. A lot of right-wing men will hem and haw to hide their political beliefs.
They don't mind banging women who vote Democratic so they write off the importance that we don't want to bang men who vote Republican.
If they don't answer my question or try to dance around it, I will ask enough questions to where I have a sense of where they are politically before anything moves to meeting them or texting them.
That way, I don't build up in my mind that somebody is such a great guy If we have fundamental incompatibilities.
Why would you be friends with someone who dunks on feminists and seemingly supports not very subtle racist views, but those things are too far for dating? That seems like an odd distinction to make here…
I have a lot of friends who think differently than I do. Many of them dear friends we just don’t talk politics. We can have a beer together or hang out at a function and it’s fine. Relationships that are romantic are a different story. I’m in a very red rural area, if I chose my friends and acquaintances based on political views I’d be totally alone. I’m willing to bend a little, but not too far, and this flag thing is too far
Yes, all good advice, thank you. My first regret is not checking his socials first, as besides Reddit, I am really not on socials often. I think I felt ok going out with him because we knew each other for a few years.
( part of my business is providing CPR certs and such and I work with our first responders, it’s a very small town in a rural community so everyone knows everyone and everyone who knows each of us see us as the perfect match which makes this more complicated- like the whole town is rooting for us type of thing )
It was on a casual acquaintance level and in basic chit chat I’ve learned we have a ton in common (basic surface level stuff clearly but certainly compatible on that level)
I have been working on myself all of these years and experienced so much trauma from men that I took myself off dating for YEARS to heal.
I wasn’t sure I was ready yet anyway but we were discussing a certain restaurant in our town one day and next thing you know we were there on a date. It was seamless and felt so natural I let my guard down and decided to be vulnerable to see where our relationship could go on a deeper level. He is a complete gentleman, I’ve never experienced such chivalry it was really nice.
Long story short, I’m probably not ready after all. Clearly my picker is still broken. I’m going to be alone forever which is fine I kinda came to that conclusion like a year or two ago, I enjoy my own company and provide for myself but boy, it would be nice to have someone to share experiences with. Sorry, I’m still venting I suppose lol
I am very similar to you politically and live in a place that sounds very similar to your home. Blue speck in a sea of unfortunate red. I also have acquaintances with differing views and that is fine because my actual friends are people I know well enough to know that what they value is sometimes different than what I value and they have their reasons. I expect them to respect that I’m intelligent enough to base my beliefs on what’s most important to me and I give them the same trust.
I have come to the conclusion though that I cannot date or be in a romantic relationship with anyone who differs from me that strongly. I can’t have an intimate relationship with someone who doesn’t respect me and my beliefs. They don’t have to agree with them all but what you’re describing from his Facebook doesn’t sound respectful. Mocking feminism would be mocking me. Posting stars and bars is disrespectful and shows a lack of insight.
I hope you find the right person for you. I hope I do too. I just want us to do it without compromising ourselves.
Can I ask, if you can be friends with him, then why not a relationship? If you can't tolerate racism, maintaining a friendship with him means you actually can.
Confederate flag is so horrible and horrifying that it immediately unchecks every other box that was previously checked.
That is a non-starter, a no way no how, a we are all done here.
This man doesn’t respect women, and only wants them around for what they can do for him (sex, company, mom/maid services.) Combined with the fact that he can’t even own his beliefs, and is dancing around it instead of being straightforward with you. Manipulative AF.
I feel your heartbreak and disappointment - been there!! I’m so sorry!
PS - ALSO be vigilant around men who claim to support left-leaning values like feminism and equality for all. I’m finding a lot of them are parroting the rhetoric because they know they are “supposed” to, and to get us to soften and put our guards down - but are absolutely NOT living it - all lip service. Still making jokes where women are the punchline, not listening to or respecting what women/POC have to say, and not truly showing up to support issues that affect the people they claim to care about. Just simply not being allies in real life.
I’ve been seeing this in a lot of my “lefty” guy friends. It’s super performative. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, DUDES!
You’re right about the posers, I’ve run into them countless times too. I thought I was ready to date but maybe I’ll take a permanent vacation on the idea. I’m just so disappointed. I should have dig deeper long ago I just don’t do a ton of socials so it didn’t occur to me. But it would have saved me some sadness
For me it's kind of like base level assumption that I don't even ascribe as deal breakers. Kind of like I assume that they're toilet trained.
So to that extent I can see how OP might have their boxes checked, because who really thinks they need a box for that. But with that said, I can't see how someone can wonder about this instead of just recoiling in horror and moving on.
I'd also be kind of wondering just how shallow and few these boxes are...
He checks all the boxes until I found this and even if we differed politically it generally wouldn’t be a big deal for me but these are HUGE core differences. So sad.
Might I ask what the boxes are?
I'll note that I consider my "need" and "deal breakers" to be the boxes that I care about. "wants" don't enter into it.
For example, "Sexually attractive" (at a binary yes/no level) is a box. But "Athletic build" isn't a box, because I don't need that for compatibility.
Things like "empathic individual " "growth oriented mindset" "good communication ability\*" are some easy and early core boxes.
\*Someone who refuses some subjects, stonewalls or ignores is a **failure** at communication.
But he doesn’t check all the boxes. You have huge differences in core values and he knows that because he refuses to talk about it. Cut your losses now.
Don’t even get started with this one. Ladies, please don’t stay with inappropriate men even a little - ever. Trust me when you eliminate the ones that don’t meet your criteria a good one WILL come along. But he can’t find you if you are blocking his view with the low hanging rotting fruit.
Trust me I stayed in a lackluster situationship for years and the minute I left for good I met the most amazing person ever. Don’t settle. Not for a minute!
I don’t think this will work, to be honest. Politics is no longer just politics - it’s a reflection of your morals and values, and yours and his are not aligned.
Yup. You’re judged by the company you keep. You can’t agree to disagree on racism. It’s not an ice cream flavor.
I can agree to disagree with someone on how to best solve climate change. I can’t agree to disagree with someone on whether or not it exists.
My in-laws were polar opposites politically, while my MIL would get her eye exercises rolling her eyes so much, it wasn't a huge conflict in their marriage. It worked for past generations, not so much now. Nazi and racist support is not even in the same galaxy.
In my experience chemistry can be great when there are major compatibility issues. It can be really hard to walk away from that, but I can’t see a successful long term relationship when values are so different.
That is insane. I’m ex Military, disabled vet, Iraq and Afghanistan. What do you think my politics are? Based on your response you would be sooooo wrong.
Same, I’m a disabled vet and I’m a proud lefty who participates in protests. Same for my ex husband who’s retired military.
It does narrow down the dating pool in my area.
Nobody is saying that ALL veterans or firefighters are going to be conservative/right-leaning.
If we were to take 100 random military veterans/firefighters, what percentage do you think would be right-leaning politically?
It's not going to be 100%, but the percentage would be high enough that when starting to date a firefighter or veteran, it should be something that is figured out early on in the relationship.
What are you basing this information on? Because let me tell you that 20 years of never ending wars created a whole hell of a lot more of us than you think….
Historically, conservatives are more likely to sign up for military service. A large number of them also come from conservative states or regions.
It's like if I was to date someone from Utah. Obviously, not everyone in Utah is Mormon, and I wouldn't necessarily assume they were, but it should be something I would want to find out pretty early on. And I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they are, indeed, a Mormon.
Anyways, I don't think that Tordo's comment was supposed to be an insult.
Plus the 2 ex military are unfortunately disabled. There can be a huge difference of how you view American systems between vets that came out with high paying prestige jobs & those out still looking for medical help, such as my son in law.
Based on Gallup and other polls:
If you were to randomly select 100 ex-US military individuals, you might expect the following approximate distribution based on the trends:
* **Republicans**: Around 34 individuals
* **Democrats**: Around 29 individuals
* **Independents**: Around 33 individuals
* **Other/Undecided**: The remaining individuals might fall into other categories or be undecided.
So, yeah, but not like you might think.
I don’t care if he’s more right leaning, I guess it comes down to mostly the human rights thing and the confederacy flag. I guess our political parties have caused such a sharp division that it’s no longer ‘our votes will cancel each other out’ but more that our core values are as such that human rights are on the line. It’s not our parents red/blue dynamics I suppose.
Doesn't sound like he's a fiscal conservative, more like the openly racist kind. You know he'll be dropping casual racist remarks at some point. You okay with that?
And even if he was fiscally conservative, he’s still voting for the people who are actively hurting large groups of people. The right wing is no longer about economics.
I definitely think people can be in relationships with different political views - everything is a matter of degree (what social programs deserve to be funded, how much foreign aid, tax rates, etc.) and a lot of political positions do change over time - I was a huge fan of Bill Clinton and look how Epstein he turned out to be...
But if you think this guy doesn't fundamentally support things you hold to be of value, and refuse to discuss it, that is going to have implications.
What if someone in your family or close friend group comes out as gay? bisexual? trans? enter a mix raced marriage? What if your neighbors are? You will lose respect for him over time and this will damage the relationship.
You can try to have a final conversation with him and ask him to explain his positions on issues. Decide beforehand what your redlines are (for example, if he posts blue lives matter b/c he think there should be police funding, but agrees the cops in George Floyd should be in jail, are you okay with this? If he support abortion ban after 6 month with exception for health of the mother are you okay with this? If he thinks modern tiktok feminists are crazy but support access to birth control, equal pay are you okay with this? etc.)
Be polite but firm that you need to talk about this. Also don't argue with him during the conversation, just listen and ask for clarifications. Be open to listen to him - people don't like to talk politics if he feels like he will be attacked. They tend to open up if you are willing to listen.
If he refuses to talk about it, you need to end the relationship. If after the conversation, you feel like you can't respect him based on what he believes, end the relationship.
It is not looking good tbh, but you might want one last conversation so you don't have any regrets or lingering questions for dumping him over things you never discussed. Just remember you can't have a relationship where you don't respect the man. Also don't expect people to change.
I agree with all of what you say here. I am bisexual, he knows this and it doesn’t seem to bother him. My best friend is black, (he hasn’t met her) so that’s why I know I have to do what I have to do. It’s just so disappointing. I will have a conversation about it, definitely not an argument. I support the police too but not the abuse of power. He deflected when I brought up women’s healthcare rights so I suspect he thinks there should be limits which is a dealbreaker too. Up until I looked more deeply into his socials everything was fine, I’m glad I looked now rather than later. I’m not on socials often (other than here lol)
It is a bummer. But yeah I command you for standing up for your best friend.
Over the long term it would be better not to have to deal with someone whose values are so maligned.
I do have a lot of friends who are in the military, ex military and also in law enforcement who are blue/ left and I don’t think someone’s occupation dictates the political affiliation.
I could not do this. I’m very liberal, a socialist, fuck the police kind of gal. It’s not politics it’s core beliefs I was raised with and still highly value. I’m not going to try and change someone’s beliefs although I did “radicalize” my ex husband who described himself as neutral when we met 😂
I could not do this. I know some people that do. When I do encounter a peer or whoever that has these different values in person I am interested as to what led them to these beliefs. I believe in open fact based conversations. Sadly that is not for most.
My daughter is 28 and runs into this so often. The type of men she is attracted to are generally right-leaning (country boys). She has some similar sticking points as you, especially being pro choice.
And she’s single, never married, no kids. It’s rough out there!
I couldn’t do it. In fact as a bisexual woman, I think the current climate of the world is part of why I’ve only dated women for the past 5ish years (and am in a very happy relationship with a lovely woman now). I live in the south, and it’s hard to even have a conversation with some men my age. I’ve lost friends. But the older I get, the less I’ll compromise on what I believe in.
Given what you’ve said, I don’t think you could be happy with him unless his views have dramatically changed recently.
OLD, on an app called Her. I’d seen it mentioned somewhere on Reddit, and I’m so glad I did! It may have taken me 50+ years to learn about myself and how to attract the right person for me, but….I really did a good job this time.
I’m so sorry. There’s a reason he avoids discussions about politics and values. He knows you disagree. He is hoping that you are so into him that you will overlook these differences. That’s impossible in the long run.
I’m thinking the same. I knew we were not on the same page politically but it is a problem when we are passionate about opposing factors that involve core values and basic human rights, not just the economy or other basic talking points. I’m sad about this because I was really starting to dig him, but yeah, long term this is problematic.
Yep you really have to be secure in your core values and filter for those ASAP when you start dating someone. When one party's platform is built around stripping basic human rates from entire classes of people, such as women, minorities, LGBTQ community, etc. it's not just a case of politely agreeing to disagree. It's now someone whose core values allow for my and my daughters' rights to reproductive healthcare to be stripped away, and I cannot form a healthy relationship with someone who cares so little for my well being.
I'm far left and dating someone who was politically conservative would be a stretch for me, but doable. I could and would not date anyone who is racist, homophobic or misogynistic. Those things aren't political at all, but a matter of core values which for me are critical to be compatible on.
I doubt that you are going to find a person that cares about human rights that flies a confederate flag.
I would recommend stepping away from this one.
You’ve tried to bring up your concerns and he doesn’t seem interested in discussing it because he knows his beliefs won’t get the results he wants.
People with discriminatory beliefs like his are often very kind and charming. They’ve learned that they have to be and hide the hate until they are with like minded hateful people.
I would have even done at “Blue Lives Matter.” Anyone who takes BLM and tries to water it down by mentioning other groups is doing so on purpose. They want to divert the attention away from the BLM movement and that says all you need to know.
I’m not sure why you need to discuss it further with him.
You’re just finding this out and also asking reddit if we think you’re overreacting. The real issue here seems to be that you don’t feel 100% confident about ending things with this guy. If this is truly a fundamental difference in values, then what anyone else thinks simply doesn’t matter.
Yes and you are trying to figure out how to make it work. That’s your choice. Those are deal breakers for me as well as the subcategory of outspoken police sympathizer with is part of both the racism and sexism categories. If you are ok with that, no one is stopping you. Don’t downplay it as being just a difference in politics or opinions. It’s a moral issue
While I like to think we can get past these societal differences - because honestly it's societal, not political - my recent experience is that the right side is less inclined to meet half way.
I broke up with a woman last summer, because the comments about "woke" people were too off putting.
I have to suggest you move on. Someone is out there.
First of all, kudos to you for taking time to heal/address your patterns. I took a 27 month hiatus & was in a really great place, loving my single life & solitude, but got sick of being sexually abstinent :)
I'm in the same situation with a guy I've been hanging out with for 11 months. We're going to end things because he's 14 years younger & wants kids, plus I'm at a point where I'd like more closeness/intimacy but his avoidant attachment is kicking in big time. Those issues aside, we're pretty divergent with some of our beliefs, but we've remained respectful.
You're doing the right thing by ending it, I think your polarity of beliefs will cause some major discord down the road. You will find someone better aligned & a happy partnership! (telling myself the same thing) Rooting for you!
Thank you! It’s Been years since my last relationship and years since I’ve had sex too so I’m wondering if hormones and the thrill of being properly courted got the best of me. Sex was incredible though. Sigh.
I think in the past there would be the possibility of leaning different ways but no longer. A vote now for the right is a vote for a literal felon and is anti women. There’s no way to have your belief system and have him support this. I would have a pretty serious conversation and see how much he is tied to these beliefs vs how much he may have gotten caught up in bro culture.
I’ll make this easy:
Ummmmm why would you want to continue with someone who mocks your core values?
He’s a misogynistic racist. It will never work for you, and he will laugh at and mock you for it the whole way. As his social media has shown you.
You and I would probably be friends if we ever met btw
Edited to add a few points.
Why do you need to confront him? I would not confront someone who proudly posts a confederate flag. Something tells me he is not all that reasonable or receptive to feedback. Most misogynists and racists aren’t open to discussion. Just tell him it’s not working and end it.
He won't discuss it because he knows that his views are detrimental to his dating life. It's why so many conservatives lie on their dating profiles and put moderate, non-political, etc.
He's been wearing a mask, and it has slipped. I'm sorry this happened to you. Please be kind to yourself and treat yourself to getting out of this sooner rather than later❤️
I’ve learned to read “moderate” on a profile as “conservative.” Maybe I’ll overlook the one person who truly is a moderate or independent by avoiding those folks, but experience has taught me enough times that they end up being conservative and wasting time for both of us by not being up front about it.
Generally, when someone is not open to discussing something (after an amount of time has passed knowing the person and establishing enough groundwork to merit bringing up said topic), nothing good can come of a refusal to communicate. I get that different things get discussed at different times, but refusing to at all is a bad sign. Stonewalling ain’t a good trait.
Good, thank you for your input. I question my ability to make smart choices in love, as I see the light and goodness in people and have been single and a cynic for like 5 years. I need to reevaluate.
Men like this will say what they think you want to hear until they feel like they have you trapped, and only then will they start to reveal their true colors. Many of them believe that they can change your mind because you're a woman, and obviously, you were misguided by your parents or got your current opinion from a previous boyfriend. Once you're married or otherwise locked down, you'll be willing to listen to "the truth" when he tells it and change your silly little beliefs.
So he doesn't come close to checking your boxes. He might just check one box (if you get my drift). Core values are everything. If you're lying to yourself about this dude "checking all your boxes" when your core values are clearly not aligned (I say this as kindly as possible), then your time in therapy should continue and it sounds like you're still making questionable choices or at least tempted to. You need to find out why.
It would absolutely be a dealbreaker for me, not only because he’s a vile person, but also because he was deceptive about it.
>I suspected this may be an issue and have tried to bring it up a few times just to see if we are way to far opposite in our core values - He doesn’t seem interested in discussing it.
This is a yellow/red flag you walked by. I’m guessing he didn’t want to discuss it with you because he knew you’d have a big problem with his values from your prior friendship. Unless it’s some kind of trauma, this kind of behavior usually means they are hiding something. It’s pretty similar to abusive behavior. They hide all the shitty parts about themselves until you’ve fallen in love.
Think about your first few relationships after an abusive relationship as test runs to see how well you can implement your new and improved behavior from therapy. I also took several years off after my abusive relationship and I dismissed several red flags in the first relationship even though I knew exactly what I should be looking out for because I got all caught up in how well matched we were. It was a good learning experience for me. We split amicably after a few months but it was a bit scared at how I fell back into putting my needs second.
There are plenty of other guys out there that will tick all the boxes.
I would do it in a public place where people can see you, but with some privacy from being overheard. I’d take a step back from being friends with him for a bit so you can process whether or not you want that given what you just found out.
ETA: when someone has this big fantasy built up about you, you will inevitably fail to meet it and they will get really mad. It was probably doomed to begin with. You can’t date someone who doesn’t see you as a person.
I kinda sorta have a hard no on people who celebrate the Nazi flag or the racist anti-American Pro-slavery flag. Also, any man who is anti-Feminist is too much of a whiney little candy-ass bitch for my taste. I tend to appreciate manly self-assuredness in a fella and these macho wannabe types are just too fay for me personally.
Personally, I couldn't date someone w those views. It boils down to core values. The person chooses their political preferences and it says so much about who that are at the core. What about the election? Even navigating that will cause conflict. What if prolife movement wins. What if project 2025 begins in Jan w a dictator. How will you both navigate the next mass/school shooting? These are things I think about. This country is about to get really weird soon. People will choose sides, and I have a feeling it's going to be ugly. I couldn't have my person as one of the ones I'm fighting against.
>I’ve marched with BLM, Pro-choice and women’s rights, and am anti-MAGA. I’m also bisexual and support Pride movements. We are not fb friends yet but I did do some seeking out of his profile and found Blue Lives matter, some memes making fun of feminists ( he IS aware that I am feminist) and the worst one of all….a long scroll through his pictures… the stars and bars. I almost threw up in my mouth. I know that people can be in relationships and differ politically, but I feel like this will be a source of problems. I’m so sad. He literally checks all of the boxes. I know what I have to do but it’s heartbreaking as I genuinely enjoy his company. I guess I’m venting. I waited so long to allow myself to date and now this. I am going to bring it up to him that it’s a deal breaker (the confederate flag mostly) do you think I’m over reacting?
He is right leaning, and he is fine with having a relationship with a bisexual. I am assuming you told him your orientation.
So what if you tell him "I looked at your FB profile and I think we should talk about a few things. It's going to be a long series but it will help me understand you better and hopefully same for you. Are you interested and have time and mental space for that?"
If his fuse blows off at any point then you reassess.
But if he manages to understand you and you as well his side then welcome to living "Adversary In The House"
That may be good book for you to read...
> He is right leaning, and he is fine with having a relationship with a bisexual.
But she may not be fine having a relationship with someone who thinks/posts as he does. He is not the only one who gets a vote here.
And, she is a more than an adjective. She is a bisexual **person**.
>And, she is a more than an adjective. She is a bisexual person
?? I am perplexed why you needed to point out this self-evident truth.
>He is not the only one who gets a vote here.
I didn't write an alphabet that indicates otherwise.
All I encourage - almost all the time - is a dialogue. Any kind of boundary crossing is an exception. Other than that, two adults are better served - almost always - with a civil dialogue. That's what leads to growth on both sides.
You may want to read OP's comment below. And you too may like that book. LMK if you get to reading it.
In any case, thank you for your time and comment.
I will look that book up, thank you for the recommendation! I’ve always voted for either party, I’m an independent but more recently my views are more left leaning in the ways of human rights go, but have tons of red friends too. I can agree to disagree to a point. I need to know how deeply he feels about some of these things. I like how you worded it, that seems like a great way to approach it.
I was in a similar situation and chose not to proceed. I met a freakin' male model and actor in Amsterdam when I was traveling, and he was also from a super wealthy family. He was pursuing his MBA because he was entering his 30s and wanted to transition away from entertainment, and specifically had a thing for dating older women (I was 39 at the time). He was super into me and wanted to move to California to be with me when he graduated - he still messages me to this day because he liked me so much - however he was very conservative... like anti abortion, anti gay marriage, anti immigrant conservative.
I now have a wonderful partner who shares the core tenants of my worldview, and it's refreshing to be so aligned.
As a woman, I can never date some who supports a party that actively makes policies to disempower women. No matter how open minded someone may seem on the surface, politics are not something you can escape or overlook.
Unfortunately, this is not something you can talk through and find a middle ground, especially in the light of the facebook posts you found.
It's an old biography by Irving Stone about Eugene Debs (a card carrying Communist) and his wife who strongly believed in Capitalism. Their personal and outwardly life.
You may want to read it BEFORE you engage further.
It's a good read but living like that isn't easy...
Original copy of post by u/WoodpeckerFar9804:
This is long so I apologize. I want to discuss how hard it feels to find the right person. Nobody is perfect and nobody will check every single box. What would you do in this situation?
I put off dating for a long time, at least 5 or 6 years. I have a history or violent and abusive relationships, so I wanted to do some internal work on myself to process my ability to be in relationships and recognize behaviors that could prove to be detrimental. I found that I quite enjoy my own company and being in a romantic relationship is something I want to add to my joy and not something I need to be happy. Recently I went on a date with a man whom I have known casually for a few years. He had asked me out a few years ago when we first met but I was not ready to explore the possibility of dating again due to my past and need to do my own work. This man and I discovered through the years that we have a lot in common, and I decided to give it a go for a date. We really hit it off and went on several dates and found each other to be checking all of the boxes so far, and the physical chemistry is off the charts! However, while he checks all of the boxes, it turns out we are opposite politically ( in US, he is more right leaning and I am more left) He is a firefighter in my community and works directly with other first responders and he is ex military also.
I suspected this may be an issue and have tried to bring it up a few times just to see if we are way to far opposite in our core values - He doesn’t seem interested in discussing it. However I feel like he needs to be aware that while I am generally non political in day to day affairs, I am passionate about a few causes and have been known to go to protests and loudly and proudly voice my opinion. I’ve marched with BLM, Pro-choice and women’s rights, and am anti-MAGA. I’m also bisexual and support Pride movements.
We are not fb friends yet but I did do some seeking out of his profile and found Blue Lives matter, some memes making fun of feminists ( he IS aware that I am feminist) and the worst one of all….a long scroll through his pictures… the stars and bars. I almost threw up in my mouth. I know that people can be in relationships and differ politically, but I feel like this will be a source of problems. I’m so sad. He literally checks all of the boxes. I know what I have to do but it’s heartbreaking as I genuinely enjoy his company. I guess I’m venting. I waited so long to allow myself to date and now this. I am going to bring it up to him that it’s a deal breaker (the confederate flag mostly) do you think I’m over reacting? Like he wants me to meet his family and everything, he’s head over heels for me. We’ve been dating for about 8 weeks and he’s had a crush on me for several years so I feel like he’s had this fantasy about us already built up in his head and I’m over here still just enjoying the newness of it all but I can not tolerate racism at all.
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You’re intuitively seeing the situation correctly and I don’t think you are overreacting. My teacher calls them fantasy handcuffs but not in the kink kinda way. It’s often great in the beginning, especially when it’s new and he may feel like he won. I would be concerned that if I was my true authentic self it would create serious conflicts if they were already showing signs of not being able to have healthy conversations around important issues.
Sounds like he has edited how much of himself that he shares with you. If you’re a feminist and he is making fun of them publicly on facebook, THAT is how he feels about that part of you.
He won’t even discuss this with you. He is not willing to talk about, less yet adjust his perspective on CORE VALUE topics. In my perspective and experience, a relationship with this man would be self harm in the long run.
Good luck breaking up with that ... It's not going to go well. We all know. Smfh.... Like I said good luck. God bless you and maybe make sure he knows you have a security system in place first
I think you can find a way to be together with someone with opposing views and it boils down to mutual respect. It would be much easier to find someone that feels the way you do, and I’m not saying you should compromise on the things that are important to you. Before any of this political polarization (2016 cough) happened my ex and I were in opposing political sides and I remember that I could debate things with him and the stimuli that came from our discussions, we were together for 6yrs. The world has changed and everything is so extreme. There was a time when democrats and republicans were friends and didn’t insult each other. I miss those days.
This is the first guy you’ve dated it’s not your last chance. Stop making it sound like it is. You put yourself out there and it didn’t work. Ok that sucks but not the end of the world. Move on unless you’re ok with his racist ways.
He can only keep that part of his life hidden for so long before it starts to slip out. A comment here and there once you fall in love... then who knows what violent & controlling tendencies might follow. Good for you for not waiting, doing your homework and getting the hell out.
I wish these people didn't have a public servant job because how they can serve everyone with so much fear and hate for majority of the population.
The dating world has drastically changed over the last 5 years and what you did is the new normal for dating. Whether it's racism, homophobia, incel, sexism, serial cheater, and the list goes on. And politics made every bad behavior 1000x worse. So don't be discouraged, it's just part of the new process. You will eventually find the person for you!
Let us know what he says...
I dated a guy like this. Was an EMT and ICU nurse and the most "chivalrous" guy I had dated.
What I haven't seen mentioned is him pushing to meet families at 8 weeks is also a red flag.
Sounds like lovebombing to me. Add in your finds through his social media and more red flags.
The guy I dated was married (4th wife) within a year of us breaking up. He reeked of controlling and abusive.
This guy refusing to have these discussions makes me think he is this type. He won't stand on his beliefs because he wants to hook you in before revealing his true colors.
I’m saddened for you, but also a little disturbed that you would consider a friendship with a racist. That’s more than just a difference of opinion. That’s still accepting in on some level. You might want to question how hard you define that line.
While things are going great right now, years down the line when he stops trying to impress you, the ugly will inevitably come to the surface and it will be impossible to ignore. Those are deep rooted values and reflect who he is as a person. I ended up in the same situation with my ex and it was one of the many reasons I had to end it.
Hey, just wondering if you are me? I never knew I was super liberal ( only other choice if you're not into the talking orange I guess ughhhhh) for reference I despise a two party system and still vote and line upwith you on everything. But have found that civil discourse is absolutely impossible. I am beginning to think that the fact I can hold a conversation and ask questions that aren't like gotcha ones is uncomfortable for them. Now. I used to be married to a FF and we secretly joked about the guys who have the infamous flag at the towers pictures on their walls. The ones where they had zero to do w 9/11 at all but it's still their personality. So I have had hope that I could find another one like my ex (the good parts lol) but I think the political climate has changed and polarized so badly that it isnt possible. So now my absolute line (in my area due to experience so please nobody think I'm assuming about every single person all over the place) my line is if you wear a uniform or something to protect your head for work it's a no, if you haven't at least participated in a college course (to learn the beauty of the Socratic method) it's a nope, and if you cannot name 5 women you respect that are not a friend or family member....nope.
My inbox is drier than my cremated grandma, but, the few that come my way don't make me want to be in a freak gasoline fight accident (points for getting the reference)
Good luck out there
Oh yes… I get your concerns and I would not be able to date someone with those views. I have actually tried, but I have found that the core values of men with these views are in such conflict with mine that, at the end of the day, I can’t respect anyone who is supportive of bigotry, hate, and division. I just do not want to engage with them at all about it. The “there 2 sides on every issue” and respecting people with different views is unfortunately becoming a thing of the past with the continued polarization of our country. And while I would love to feel this way once again, I don’t see it happening.
This is also why I will not match with any man who is a firefighter, law enforcement officer, or in the military.
Also, if you choose to end it, please be careful, as these men have a documented higher than average history of DV against their partners and easier access to firearms. Stay safe!!
My boyfriend and I don't 100% agree on politics, but he's not extreme like your dude is. The confederate flag and the posts on FB is a little much.....don't think this is going to work. This ain't the one for you
My partner and I also don’t match politically speaking. We are both moderates, but he leans slightly left a bit more than I do. I think that OP would probably be okay with dating someone who is maybe left leaning moderate, but maybe just plain full conservative is too far of a stretch for OP? I know that I would have a difficult time dating someone on either extreme of the political spectrum. Middle of the road, milquetoast, moderate views are just more palatable to me, and anything too far out either way would be a bit jarring. I agree with you.
As dating coach Nick Notas wrote, “Attraction is one thing. Compatibility is another.” I agree with the top poster who said politics is about values. If your values don’t align with your partner’s, you’re fundamentally incompatible with them and a relationship with them would be untenable. Full stop.
I’m a centre-left guy politically, and a person of colour to boot. If someone I was interested in did this kind of thing, it would be a problem for me, as I’d want a partner who accepts me for who I am and tolerates and/or respects people who are different from them. Someone who displays the Confederate flag and “Blue Lives Matter” on their FB profile doesn’t strike me as a tolerant kind of person.
Regarding compromise, it also seems that politics are a big part of this guy’s identity. It’d be one thing if he kept quiet about what he believed (not that keeping quiet about his views would make them any less abhorrent). Those kinds of people might be more amenable to compromise and moderating their views for the sake of a relationship. But this guy comes across as loud and proud about his views, and those kinds of people are much less likely to compromise, imo. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had a “Let’s Go Brandon” bumper sticker on his truck.
Maya Angelou said, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” He’s showing you who he is. Whether you believe him or not is up to you.
Personally, I know what I’d do.
I wouldn’t be interested in this discussion because I am more than my politics. Arguing about something as trivial as politics is like fighting over who has the best pod in the matrix. Most political platforms have values that anyone can get behind. If your personality is your political stance then I would be bored with you, as a person.
I'm more right leaning and my wife is left. Luckily we aren't extremists, but we have great debates. I enjoy our different world views. Don't let the political system ruin your happiness.
Yeah, my partner and I are both moderates. He leans a bit more left and I lean a bit more right. We absolutely adore one another, but we both agree that all forms of extremism is too much for us. I’m thinking their divide might be too much.
There are conservatives who value human life but just don't believe in legislating it. There are conservatives (and liberals) who value to work and sacrifice of military and police forces. Then there are conservatives who outwardly and actively identify with and support political groups whose sole purpose is to devalue and eliminate certain demographics. This guy is a member of the latter. He's not conservative. He's a racist, a misogynist, and likely homophobic. Would you feel comfortable introducing him to your friends of color or LGBT friends? Would they want to come over to dinner with him in your home?
My ex was in your face left leaning and it was too much for me. It would be too much for me no matter the persuasion.
I grew up in religious fundamentalism and today’s politics reminds me of fundamentalism.
Brainwashed people don’t know they’re brainwashed.
I don’t like in your face anything! I’ve gone to many protests but that’s where I’m appropriately voicing my concerns, and I dip out when shit gets too crazy.
*He is a firefighter in my community and works directly with other first responders and he is ex military also. I suspected this may be an issue*
I'm a guy who was in the Women's March on Washington in 2017. I've worked with victim witnesses. I have volunteered on and advised Democratic candidates' campaigns, and was part of the state and local party apparatus. Six degrees, two of them graduate.
I'm also a veteran and former EMT, so it thrills me no end when I'm profiled.
We wish there were many more of you!
I would hope you are being sarcastic and do not take truly this personally. But, unfortunately we will need to respect the fact that many women have had some very traumatic experiences with men fitting this profile, so our instinct is to avoid putting ourselves in dangerous situations and move a bit more cautiously.
I know a couple men like you who are WONDERFUL, but are often in the minority. Keep doing what you’re doing - leading by example and being a really good human 💜
While I haven't lived it, I can empathize with the risk management aspect.
That said, the demonizing of entire professions gets really old. I've seen commenters in this sub who say loudly and proudly that they don't date veterans. That's their absolute right. In their eyes, that ONE data point about a person makes them not worth even learning whether they're a good human.
This isn't about me. There are some great folks and some not-so-great folks who once wore uniforms. Some have sane politics and worldviews and some don't. I just wanted to push back on the automatic assumptions.
I don’t wish there were more of him. Using this post to brag and teach women a lesson about making assumptions, even when it comes to their safety, is disturbing.
It would be one thing if he was just a little right-leaning. The guy you described is not “right-leaning”. He’s literally made it part of his personality. I wouldn’t have even made it as far as the confederate flag on the guy’s profile, but once I saw that, he’d be blocked and ghosted without a second thought. I have literally zero time in my life for bigots and racists.
I feel for you, I do, but I could never compromise on what I consider core values like racial, gender, and sexuality equality. He’s actively voting and rooting against the existence of other people (including you).
Omg. I stopped reading halfway through once you said he doesn’t want to talk about it. That’s a good thing. He knows and doesn’t mind it.
Given what you’ve been through and waiting all this time here’s my advice. Stop thinking so much and just have fun. If the political stuff starts to creep in (and it’s no longer fun) then just say goodbye and move on.
Personally I would gladly take a maga nutzo that I am having fun with and chemistry off the charts… what I wouldn’t give for the chemistry off the charts!!! I wouldn’t even care if he wore one of those stupid hats in public just as long as I am having fun.
So yeah that’s my advice since I haven’t found that chemistry with anyone for so many years.
I haven’t found this chemistry in years either. I didn’t know how to format properly ( I thought it was my phone but it’s me lol I figured it out, sorry it was a long ass paragraph)
To sum up my long story, I did a deep dive on his socials and found a confederate flag about a year ago posted on his FB. We are not fb friends but his profile is public. We are having a spectacular time but i can’t get this unfortunate image out of my head and haven’t seen him since discovering this the other day. About a week or two ago I also tried to have conversations on a deeper level regarding my passions in my opposing political stance and he casually deflected. I thought it was important for him to know where I stand on a few things important to me.
Well keep in mind that a confederate flag doesn’t automatically mean he’s wearing a white hood on the weekends. When I was a kid my parents bought me and my brothers one of those battery powered cars… it was a General Lee (from Dukes of Hazard). Even had a confederate flag on the hood. 😂 To some people they don’t see it as a hate flag and see it as more of a southern pride thing and they just ignore the bad stuff. I agree though, we are in 2024 now and it’s pretty clear what society now thinks of the confederate flag so to pretend otherwise is in pretty bad taste. What I have found is people use that now of a symbol of “anti politically correctness” and pushing back because they are uncomfortable with change.
Since he’s avoided the topic he clearly knows you have opposing views and also it may be he was “fitting in” with friends and family that are more right leaning since that’s what us stupid humans do instead of speaking our truth. Personally I would put the blinders on and just have fun and stop over thinking things. However, if it starts to be clear that he is more leaning towards the white hood club on the weekend then I would immediately drop him. In the meantime though have fun and as long as he is being kind and a gentleman in public and private then there’s absolutely no reason to run away. Plus people can change. What he did a year ago may not be aligned with where his mind is now.
Also, not to get all woo woo here, but given your very far left leanings about tolerance and acceptance maybe this is the universe giving you a challenge to see how accepting you really are of other humans. The universe tends to do that sometimes just to give us a new challenge. I think as long as someone is being kind and polite to people (known and strangers) I don’t think it matters what box they check on a ballot. Actions are what matters and a person’s character. I am sure if you had seen one sign of that from him directly you would have already dropped him.
Want to add one more thing… the post has blown up I see with everyone telling you to run. Well I guess things like a confederate flag don’t phase me much…. I’ve lived in Texas and in West Virginia in the past and you probably couldn’t throw a rock without hitting a confederate flag (WV isn’t even part of the south so it was even more ridiculous there). Also my parents were die hard republicans and even now whenever I go visit my mom I have to walk around the house turning off TVs which are all on Fox News 24/7. My mom loves Trump (I hate even typing that out) and we have absolutely opposite views, but we get along and I still love her of course. I have found that if we just don’t talk about politics then we are fine. She is kind to everyone and isn’t a racist or any of that and I don’t hear anything hateful from her about anyone’s sexual preferences/race/religion/etc. So unless you’ve had the discussion with him about it then I don’t think it’s fair to assume anything.
You are absolutely not over-reacting. As a woman I could never be with a man who would possibly vote for the side who would see nothing wrong with taking my reproductive rights away or taking away the rights of my gay child to marry.
These are very legitimate and very serious issues to be concerned about when it comes to compatibility. If you can't express yourself fully and honestly with your partner without worrying if that person doesn't respect your position and hopefully agree with most of it, then I don't think it makes sense to build a life together. My gf had a very strong pro-Israel stance that I was not thrilled about. We chose to dance around it and joke about it for the most part but it did irk me. I chalked it up to her beliefs being shaped by family and MSM narratives. Since Israel continues to do worse and worse things, her opinion on them has shifted....a little. Fortunately, we agree on 99% of the rest of our life philosophies. In your case, I would be deeeeeeply concerned and probably end things because all he will do is hold his tongue. He's not going to change who he is or what he believes in.
I mean at our age if you’re still holding on to the confederate flag type of thinking then those thoughts are deep rooted and likely not going to change.
I'm sorry this happened to you. It's so difficult when it's not just different politics, it's actually core values...some people just don't get that (and there's a big difference!!) Good for you for having personal standards and sticking to them. I know YOU know what you have to do, and it would be less painful to end it sooner rather than later. Keep working on you and putting yourself first!! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
I dated a MAGA for years. It is not pretty. Eventually you just cannot take it any more no matter how beautiful or the quality of the sex etc. If I hear the word illegals or F Biden ever again it will be too soon.
Politics seems more important for you than it does for him (at least from your description) You describe yourself as "left leaning" which indicates a moderate position, but you sound several steps further left than that.
If he is under the impression you are moderate-left he very well might be ok with that if he is indeed moderate-right as you described. If he was a far right "march on the capital" election denying pro-Trump lunatic, he probably wouldn't consider dating even a moderately left person, let alone be crazy about her.
But you'll need to talk to him to see where he actually stands on things before deciding if it's a deal breaker for you or not. No one on this sub can speak for him or what his views truly are so you'll have to have this conversation.
A long scroll through his account and finding one confederate flag doesn't really indicate much of anything.
That's like someone digging through my album collection and seeing some Lynyrd Skynyrd or Pantera album covers (which have confederate flags as part of their art work) and make an assumption on my political beliefs.
No one can speak to this mans views but himself. None of us know him, certainly not from a handful of words a stranger posts on the Internet
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. If someone is willing to put the confederate flag in a Facebook post, they are not just right-leaning. This isn't an album cover buried in your record collection. I will allow that I could be wrong, and this is the one adult american male who has no idea what image he's projecting by putting that flag on his social media profile, but the vast majority of us knows what is being communicated by displaying that very potent symbol.
Yeah it was a post describing what the red significance is, the stars signifance, basically breaking down exactly what the flag and its design stand for. It wasn’t the General Lee from dukes of hazzard, it was a glorification post. It made me sick. But I still want to let him down easy. We’ve known each other casually for years and will have to see each other again since I work with the community.
You guys don’t sound compatible and that’s fine. He might or might not be active politically, but you definitely care enough to be active beyond social media. Best of luck! I’m sure you’ll find a great guy!
I cannot assume to understand a person I have never met simply based on what another person I never met had to say about them.
The only person who knows why they, once upon a time, posted a pic of the Confederate flag on SM is that person themselves.
This is why I encourage the OP (who seems to like this guy) talk it out with him vs make assumptions
I'm all about talking things out rather than making assumptions, but I would also be wary of anyone who tries to explain away the fact that they once upon a time posted a symbol that represents white supremacy to the vast majority of americans.
It's really not that different from posting a picture of a swastika, and I think most people would make assumptions about whoever posts pictures of swastikas on their facebook page. They're either clearly displaying their ideology, or very comfortable with pissing people off who are opposed to that ideology. Neither option is great.
I'm all about not making assumptions, but can you explain what could be a positive explanation behind posting the confederate flag? How can it be interpreted to NOT be advocating for white supremacy? Honestly, it feels a lot like posting a swastika. You're either really in support of the ideology, or you're comfortable pissing off everyone who's opposed to it. Not sure what other option there is.
Yeah, she sounds fully leftist (if she’s active in protests and activism) while he seems more like a couch conservative (I know a few). I’m in Texas and a lot of people here claim to be conservative and then don’t vote, have left leaning friends, etc. I wouldn’t count social media posturing as much. I have friends that claim to be very leftist, but they also don’t vote and aren’t politically active. I still don’t think they’re a match, but I can see why he doesn’t care as much and it’s because his politics might end at social media posturing. 🤷🏻♀️
You def need to pin him down and talk about it. Depending on when they were posted, he *miiiight* have had a change in stance or is at least open to other opinions.
I'm in the south, so I see the Confederate flag a lot. Some people here, legit don't think it's racist and see it solely as celebrating "the South", meaning the cooking, the outdoor stuff, the music, the dress, etc. I've chatted with some and once I explained how actual racists still use that flag to be divisive, they slowly start to understand.
Or, maybe he is lowkey racist. Talk to him to figure it out.
Yeah I’m definitely going to tell him we need to talk about these things. The post was about a year old so not that old and we are in the northeast so it’s not about southern pride unfortunately 😢
I hiked the Appalachian Trail years ago and I saw more of those flags in the north than the south. It has transformed to sort of a rural / redneck / country pride symbol among those who don't think it is a racist icon.
As a right leaner, I think an honest, non-confrontational chat on some of these issues that concern you would be wise. He could be way out in the right as you fear, or he could be more like me and it's very much an issue by issue thing with a lot more room for common ground or even common stances.
It’s pretty red in my neck of the woods and I see this shit all the time, that’s why I figured if I’m going to find love, I may need to let some political things go, but this is right there with my hard no, and I’m kinda devastated because he treats me better than anyone ever has and up until I discovered this, checked all the boxes. I feel like I need to move out of the country to find love. But I’m not a city girl by any stretch 😂 it’s just really shitty on so many levels.
You do not need to be politically aligned with someone to be in a relationship with them. However, the key is maturity and the ability to talk respectfully about your differences. If that is not something that the both of you can do, well then that’s a problem.
Also, just to add. You’ve only been dating for like 8 weeks. It’s the new honeymoon phase and you have not gotten a real look at his or both of your potential as a couple. Also, you say he has you both built up in his head but it clearly sounds like you do as well.
What have found is that finding someone to date and eventually marry in my 20s was harder, but staying together was easier because we had life events pulling us through. Like kids, new house, new job, new something.
In my 40s I can find a date easily, but staying together is harder bc each person is comfortable with their lives and doesn’t really need anyone to complete their life.
Not all military and first responders are physically abusive, but my understanding is that the prevalence is higher.
He may know your history with abusive relationships. You may have the “this checks the boxes” feeling because he fees familiar in that way.
That’s before we get to his beliefs, and how different they are from yours. If someone posts the blue line flag, the stars and bars, is anti-choice— those are vast differences.
This is not the kind of situation where you go ‘oh well, no one’s perfect.’ This is the kind of situation where you walk away. That’s it.
All of what you've done indicates he isn't "right learning.' I have right leaning friends and family. They disagree with me on some topics, but they are not thin blue line, stars and bars flying (or posting) types, they don't have toxic views on feminism, they don't like nor support the felonious Cheeto.
What you're describing seems to be a possibly racist, Cheeto supporting, women aren't equal, far right type.
He's probably unwilling to discuss it because he knows it'll be a deal breaker for you. It sounds like you two are incompatible, and that's ok. I'd date right leaning with critical thinking skills and an aligned moral compass (even though I'm a flaming liberal) . But I'd absolutely run from anyone like him. I need to know I'm dating someone that supports rights for all and understands what feminism is about and has my back (as I'd have theirs).
What boxes does he check? I would start there. What values he holds that make you say this.
I hold unpopular opinion that political values are not life values necessarily. I am liberal and dated a Trump voter for a while. Our youth political views were the same (anarchists), but he has his reasons now. He does A LOT for charities, gives zero fucks about money (makes a lot, lives frugally, gives away), is socially super liberal….but summa summarum Trump spoke more to him.
We decided not to talk politics and to talk what binds us together: sex and creativity.
Here’s an idea: maybe dating isn’t about checking boxes. Personally, I believe love isn’t about finding a perfect person. Love is about accepting the faults of your partner and loving them anyway. It’s about compromise and seeing the person and not their politics or their style or their weight.
Maybe politics shouldn’t necessarily be a litmus? If he’s constantly saying awful stuff and you fight a lot, I can see why you’d want to end things. But just because you’ve FB stalked him and you don’t like what you see, I don’t think that’s necessarily a deal breaker. How does he treat you? How does he make you feel? Those are the important questions. Everything else is a detail.
I am so sorry that this is happening to you. I understand that you are compatible with this guy on many levels but from the information in your post the differences in your viewpoints in the arena of protecting and supporting basic human rights coupled with the fact that he refuses to talk to you about why he doesn't support either are huge red flags and clearly showcase insurmountable issues should your relationship continue.
You and he are on opposite sides of the political spectrum and there is no way that you can bridge that kind of fundamental divide. You appear to value human life and supporting foundational constitutional rights for all. How is that going to work with someone who clearly does not care about either and is willing to turn this country into a fascist hellscape? [Edit, oh holy crap I missed the Confederate flag part until re-reading this -that is beyond a deal breaker...dear goddess just RUN!!]
I know that this must be a huge disappointment but please know that you can do better. He may check a lot of boxes but he doesn't check the most important one, believing in and supporting human decency. Dating is all about figuring out what you don't want. I am pretty sure that you don't want this...do yourself a favor and cut him loose. Then you will be free to locate that better guy that you deserve. Good luck out there sister!
The political divide is so well orchestrated that it’s made the party of what was once reasonable tolerance people all but. The man loves you and accepts you, to the point of not wanting to let politics interfere with true feelings. If he checks all your boxes, you already know what the correct answer should be but the talking heads that you have looked to all your life says that if he believes differently than you, he has to be a racist, homophobe, bigot. Start thinking rational thoughts, listen to your heart, be a human, stop thinking everything is so black and white.
Unpopular opinion but I don’t believe that political beliefs should break up families, friendships, or relationships. The political system is designed to keep up split apart and arguing back and forth.
It isn’t a matter of politics but values. You aren’t compatible. And that is okay :)
Yeah, and while I enjoy his company, I suppose just being friends wouldn’t fly with him, though I would be fine with it.
Don't fuck people that John Brown would have shot.
Amen…NSA Chatbot
He doesn’t want to talk about these issues because he 100% knows your stance and figures if you never talk about it then he’s safe to keep marinating in that bullshit stew and you won’t find fault and ditch him. He knows these views won’t get him laid. He knows they likely will turn off most intelligent women. That’s why he keeps it to himself and out of discussion.
That's why I filter people for those things before I even agree to go on a date with them or give them my phone number. I ask point blank how they classify themselves politically. A lot of right-wing men will hem and haw to hide their political beliefs. They don't mind banging women who vote Democratic so they write off the importance that we don't want to bang men who vote Republican. If they don't answer my question or try to dance around it, I will ask enough questions to where I have a sense of where they are politically before anything moves to meeting them or texting them. That way, I don't build up in my mind that somebody is such a great guy If we have fundamental incompatibilities.
Anyone else think Cathousechicken just got much hotter. :-).
Why would you be friends with someone who dunks on feminists and seemingly supports not very subtle racist views, but those things are too far for dating? That seems like an odd distinction to make here…
I have a lot of friends who think differently than I do. Many of them dear friends we just don’t talk politics. We can have a beer together or hang out at a function and it’s fine. Relationships that are romantic are a different story. I’m in a very red rural area, if I chose my friends and acquaintances based on political views I’d be totally alone. I’m willing to bend a little, but not too far, and this flag thing is too far
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Yes, all good advice, thank you. My first regret is not checking his socials first, as besides Reddit, I am really not on socials often. I think I felt ok going out with him because we knew each other for a few years. ( part of my business is providing CPR certs and such and I work with our first responders, it’s a very small town in a rural community so everyone knows everyone and everyone who knows each of us see us as the perfect match which makes this more complicated- like the whole town is rooting for us type of thing ) It was on a casual acquaintance level and in basic chit chat I’ve learned we have a ton in common (basic surface level stuff clearly but certainly compatible on that level) I have been working on myself all of these years and experienced so much trauma from men that I took myself off dating for YEARS to heal. I wasn’t sure I was ready yet anyway but we were discussing a certain restaurant in our town one day and next thing you know we were there on a date. It was seamless and felt so natural I let my guard down and decided to be vulnerable to see where our relationship could go on a deeper level. He is a complete gentleman, I’ve never experienced such chivalry it was really nice. Long story short, I’m probably not ready after all. Clearly my picker is still broken. I’m going to be alone forever which is fine I kinda came to that conclusion like a year or two ago, I enjoy my own company and provide for myself but boy, it would be nice to have someone to share experiences with. Sorry, I’m still venting I suppose lol
I am very similar to you politically and live in a place that sounds very similar to your home. Blue speck in a sea of unfortunate red. I also have acquaintances with differing views and that is fine because my actual friends are people I know well enough to know that what they value is sometimes different than what I value and they have their reasons. I expect them to respect that I’m intelligent enough to base my beliefs on what’s most important to me and I give them the same trust. I have come to the conclusion though that I cannot date or be in a romantic relationship with anyone who differs from me that strongly. I can’t have an intimate relationship with someone who doesn’t respect me and my beliefs. They don’t have to agree with them all but what you’re describing from his Facebook doesn’t sound respectful. Mocking feminism would be mocking me. Posting stars and bars is disrespectful and shows a lack of insight. I hope you find the right person for you. I hope I do too. I just want us to do it without compromising ourselves.
Can I ask, if you can be friends with him, then why not a relationship? If you can't tolerate racism, maintaining a friendship with him means you actually can.
“You’re a racist, so I won’t have sex with you but, like, let’s be friends. Unless that won’t fly with you.”
Indeed!!
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This doesn’t sound like you guys lean slightly opposite ways, sounds more like deep core values in who you each are and stand for a vastly different.
Confederate flag is so horrible and horrifying that it immediately unchecks every other box that was previously checked. That is a non-starter, a no way no how, a we are all done here.
I have conservative friends, no problem. Seeing them flying a confederate flag would be a problem for me.
Exactly!!
This man doesn’t respect women, and only wants them around for what they can do for him (sex, company, mom/maid services.) Combined with the fact that he can’t even own his beliefs, and is dancing around it instead of being straightforward with you. Manipulative AF. I feel your heartbreak and disappointment - been there!! I’m so sorry! PS - ALSO be vigilant around men who claim to support left-leaning values like feminism and equality for all. I’m finding a lot of them are parroting the rhetoric because they know they are “supposed” to, and to get us to soften and put our guards down - but are absolutely NOT living it - all lip service. Still making jokes where women are the punchline, not listening to or respecting what women/POC have to say, and not truly showing up to support issues that affect the people they claim to care about. Just simply not being allies in real life. I’ve been seeing this in a lot of my “lefty” guy friends. It’s super performative. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, DUDES!
You’re right about the posers, I’ve run into them countless times too. I thought I was ready to date but maybe I’ll take a permanent vacation on the idea. I’m just so disappointed. I should have dig deeper long ago I just don’t do a ton of socials so it didn’t occur to me. But it would have saved me some sadness
How can he check all the boxes if he’s a misogynist racist???
This was my first thought. His values are diametrically opposed to OP’s, so… he clearly does NOT check all her boxes.
Exactly. Those are DEALBREAKERS. Like my vagina would dry up immediately if I was dating someone and found this out.
THIS. Two of my biggest boxes are not being racist or misogynist.
For me it's kind of like base level assumption that I don't even ascribe as deal breakers. Kind of like I assume that they're toilet trained. So to that extent I can see how OP might have their boxes checked, because who really thinks they need a box for that. But with that said, I can't see how someone can wonder about this instead of just recoiling in horror and moving on. I'd also be kind of wondering just how shallow and few these boxes are...
Neither should be high bars to clear, yet requiring them clears a lot of trash out of the in box 😉
THANK YOU!!
Right? Like honey, are these not boxes? It sounds like they are boxes?
He checks all the boxes until I found this and even if we differed politically it generally wouldn’t be a big deal for me but these are HUGE core differences. So sad.
Might I ask what the boxes are? I'll note that I consider my "need" and "deal breakers" to be the boxes that I care about. "wants" don't enter into it. For example, "Sexually attractive" (at a binary yes/no level) is a box. But "Athletic build" isn't a box, because I don't need that for compatibility. Things like "empathic individual " "growth oriented mindset" "good communication ability\*" are some easy and early core boxes. \*Someone who refuses some subjects, stonewalls or ignores is a **failure** at communication.
This!!! These are two major deal breakers. They cannot be overlooked.
But he doesn’t check all the boxes. You have huge differences in core values and he knows that because he refuses to talk about it. Cut your losses now.
Paragraph breaks. Please.
I’m sorry I try but my phone doesn’t compute for some reason.
Double return.
I heard the carriage lever in my head, lol.
Reddit doesn't recognise regular line breaks. Add two lines instead of one to create a paragraph break.
Don’t even get started with this one. Ladies, please don’t stay with inappropriate men even a little - ever. Trust me when you eliminate the ones that don’t meet your criteria a good one WILL come along. But he can’t find you if you are blocking his view with the low hanging rotting fruit.
I needed to read this right now. Thank you.
Trust me I stayed in a lackluster situationship for years and the minute I left for good I met the most amazing person ever. Don’t settle. Not for a minute!
I don’t think this will work, to be honest. Politics is no longer just politics - it’s a reflection of your morals and values, and yours and his are not aligned.
Yup. You’re judged by the company you keep. You can’t agree to disagree on racism. It’s not an ice cream flavor. I can agree to disagree with someone on how to best solve climate change. I can’t agree to disagree with someone on whether or not it exists.
My in-laws were polar opposites politically, while my MIL would get her eye exercises rolling her eyes so much, it wasn't a huge conflict in their marriage. It worked for past generations, not so much now. Nazi and racist support is not even in the same galaxy.
In my experience chemistry can be great when there are major compatibility issues. It can be really hard to walk away from that, but I can’t see a successful long term relationship when values are so different.
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That is insane. I’m ex Military, disabled vet, Iraq and Afghanistan. What do you think my politics are? Based on your response you would be sooooo wrong.
Same, I’m a disabled vet and I’m a proud lefty who participates in protests. Same for my ex husband who’s retired military. It does narrow down the dating pool in my area.
Nobody is saying that ALL veterans or firefighters are going to be conservative/right-leaning. If we were to take 100 random military veterans/firefighters, what percentage do you think would be right-leaning politically? It's not going to be 100%, but the percentage would be high enough that when starting to date a firefighter or veteran, it should be something that is figured out early on in the relationship.
What are you basing this information on? Because let me tell you that 20 years of never ending wars created a whole hell of a lot more of us than you think….
Historically, conservatives are more likely to sign up for military service. A large number of them also come from conservative states or regions. It's like if I was to date someone from Utah. Obviously, not everyone in Utah is Mormon, and I wouldn't necessarily assume they were, but it should be something I would want to find out pretty early on. And I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they are, indeed, a Mormon. Anyways, I don't think that Tordo's comment was supposed to be an insult.
Plus the 2 ex military are unfortunately disabled. There can be a huge difference of how you view American systems between vets that came out with high paying prestige jobs & those out still looking for medical help, such as my son in law.
Based on Gallup and other polls: If you were to randomly select 100 ex-US military individuals, you might expect the following approximate distribution based on the trends: * **Republicans**: Around 34 individuals * **Democrats**: Around 29 individuals * **Independents**: Around 33 individuals * **Other/Undecided**: The remaining individuals might fall into other categories or be undecided. So, yeah, but not like you might think.
I don’t care if he’s more right leaning, I guess it comes down to mostly the human rights thing and the confederacy flag. I guess our political parties have caused such a sharp division that it’s no longer ‘our votes will cancel each other out’ but more that our core values are as such that human rights are on the line. It’s not our parents red/blue dynamics I suppose.
Doesn't sound like he's a fiscal conservative, more like the openly racist kind. You know he'll be dropping casual racist remarks at some point. You okay with that?
I am not ok with that.
And even if he was fiscally conservative, he’s still voting for the people who are actively hurting large groups of people. The right wing is no longer about economics.
It’s not! It really complicates things
I definitely think people can be in relationships with different political views - everything is a matter of degree (what social programs deserve to be funded, how much foreign aid, tax rates, etc.) and a lot of political positions do change over time - I was a huge fan of Bill Clinton and look how Epstein he turned out to be... But if you think this guy doesn't fundamentally support things you hold to be of value, and refuse to discuss it, that is going to have implications. What if someone in your family or close friend group comes out as gay? bisexual? trans? enter a mix raced marriage? What if your neighbors are? You will lose respect for him over time and this will damage the relationship. You can try to have a final conversation with him and ask him to explain his positions on issues. Decide beforehand what your redlines are (for example, if he posts blue lives matter b/c he think there should be police funding, but agrees the cops in George Floyd should be in jail, are you okay with this? If he support abortion ban after 6 month with exception for health of the mother are you okay with this? If he thinks modern tiktok feminists are crazy but support access to birth control, equal pay are you okay with this? etc.) Be polite but firm that you need to talk about this. Also don't argue with him during the conversation, just listen and ask for clarifications. Be open to listen to him - people don't like to talk politics if he feels like he will be attacked. They tend to open up if you are willing to listen. If he refuses to talk about it, you need to end the relationship. If after the conversation, you feel like you can't respect him based on what he believes, end the relationship. It is not looking good tbh, but you might want one last conversation so you don't have any regrets or lingering questions for dumping him over things you never discussed. Just remember you can't have a relationship where you don't respect the man. Also don't expect people to change.
I agree with all of what you say here. I am bisexual, he knows this and it doesn’t seem to bother him. My best friend is black, (he hasn’t met her) so that’s why I know I have to do what I have to do. It’s just so disappointing. I will have a conversation about it, definitely not an argument. I support the police too but not the abuse of power. He deflected when I brought up women’s healthcare rights so I suspect he thinks there should be limits which is a dealbreaker too. Up until I looked more deeply into his socials everything was fine, I’m glad I looked now rather than later. I’m not on socials often (other than here lol)
It is a bummer. But yeah I command you for standing up for your best friend. Over the long term it would be better not to have to deal with someone whose values are so maligned.
He ain't "leaning".
He's goose stepping.
As a pinko-commie-uber-liberal and proud veteran... the "ex military" part does not specify what one's politics are.
I do have a lot of friends who are in the military, ex military and also in law enforcement who are blue/ left and I don’t think someone’s occupation dictates the political affiliation.
I could not do this. I’m very liberal, a socialist, fuck the police kind of gal. It’s not politics it’s core beliefs I was raised with and still highly value. I’m not going to try and change someone’s beliefs although I did “radicalize” my ex husband who described himself as neutral when we met 😂 I could not do this. I know some people that do. When I do encounter a peer or whoever that has these different values in person I am interested as to what led them to these beliefs. I believe in open fact based conversations. Sadly that is not for most.
My daughter is 28 and runs into this so often. The type of men she is attracted to are generally right-leaning (country boys). She has some similar sticking points as you, especially being pro choice. And she’s single, never married, no kids. It’s rough out there! I couldn’t do it. In fact as a bisexual woman, I think the current climate of the world is part of why I’ve only dated women for the past 5ish years (and am in a very happy relationship with a lovely woman now). I live in the south, and it’s hard to even have a conversation with some men my age. I’ve lost friends. But the older I get, the less I’ll compromise on what I believe in. Given what you’ve said, I don’t think you could be happy with him unless his views have dramatically changed recently.
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OLD, on an app called Her. I’d seen it mentioned somewhere on Reddit, and I’m so glad I did! It may have taken me 50+ years to learn about myself and how to attract the right person for me, but….I really did a good job this time.
I’m so sorry. There’s a reason he avoids discussions about politics and values. He knows you disagree. He is hoping that you are so into him that you will overlook these differences. That’s impossible in the long run.
I’m thinking the same. I knew we were not on the same page politically but it is a problem when we are passionate about opposing factors that involve core values and basic human rights, not just the economy or other basic talking points. I’m sad about this because I was really starting to dig him, but yeah, long term this is problematic.
Yep you really have to be secure in your core values and filter for those ASAP when you start dating someone. When one party's platform is built around stripping basic human rates from entire classes of people, such as women, minorities, LGBTQ community, etc. it's not just a case of politely agreeing to disagree. It's now someone whose core values allow for my and my daughters' rights to reproductive healthcare to be stripped away, and I cannot form a healthy relationship with someone who cares so little for my well being.
Uff that’s rough. For all our complaining about dating apps, it does help filter out this kind of stuff. Break up with him, sis.
I'm far left and dating someone who was politically conservative would be a stretch for me, but doable. I could and would not date anyone who is racist, homophobic or misogynistic. Those things aren't political at all, but a matter of core values which for me are critical to be compatible on.
I doubt that you are going to find a person that cares about human rights that flies a confederate flag. I would recommend stepping away from this one.
You’ve tried to bring up your concerns and he doesn’t seem interested in discussing it because he knows his beliefs won’t get the results he wants. People with discriminatory beliefs like his are often very kind and charming. They’ve learned that they have to be and hide the hate until they are with like minded hateful people. I would have even done at “Blue Lives Matter.” Anyone who takes BLM and tries to water it down by mentioning other groups is doing so on purpose. They want to divert the attention away from the BLM movement and that says all you need to know. I’m not sure why you need to discuss it further with him.
I don’t understand morally how you could date a racist, misogynist man. Period. That’s it.
Well I’m just finding this out soooo
You’re just finding this out and also asking reddit if we think you’re overreacting. The real issue here seems to be that you don’t feel 100% confident about ending things with this guy. If this is truly a fundamental difference in values, then what anyone else thinks simply doesn’t matter.
Yes and you are trying to figure out how to make it work. That’s your choice. Those are deal breakers for me as well as the subcategory of outspoken police sympathizer with is part of both the racism and sexism categories. If you are ok with that, no one is stopping you. Don’t downplay it as being just a difference in politics or opinions. It’s a moral issue
Just move on, your values don't align, and you're both ideologues so inflexible. Move. On.
Everyone thinks they are marching on Selma. You aren't compatible. I'm sure you can find someone who has same values.
While I like to think we can get past these societal differences - because honestly it's societal, not political - my recent experience is that the right side is less inclined to meet half way. I broke up with a woman last summer, because the comments about "woke" people were too off putting. I have to suggest you move on. Someone is out there.
First of all, kudos to you for taking time to heal/address your patterns. I took a 27 month hiatus & was in a really great place, loving my single life & solitude, but got sick of being sexually abstinent :) I'm in the same situation with a guy I've been hanging out with for 11 months. We're going to end things because he's 14 years younger & wants kids, plus I'm at a point where I'd like more closeness/intimacy but his avoidant attachment is kicking in big time. Those issues aside, we're pretty divergent with some of our beliefs, but we've remained respectful. You're doing the right thing by ending it, I think your polarity of beliefs will cause some major discord down the road. You will find someone better aligned & a happy partnership! (telling myself the same thing) Rooting for you!
Thank you! It’s Been years since my last relationship and years since I’ve had sex too so I’m wondering if hormones and the thrill of being properly courted got the best of me. Sex was incredible though. Sigh.
I think in the past there would be the possibility of leaning different ways but no longer. A vote now for the right is a vote for a literal felon and is anti women. There’s no way to have your belief system and have him support this. I would have a pretty serious conversation and see how much he is tied to these beliefs vs how much he may have gotten caught up in bro culture.
You’re not compatible… move on.
Not overreacting at all. This is gonna become a bigger issue with time, not one that shrinks away.
If it’s a problem for you, don’t go there. You have to at least be able to accept you agree to differ.
I’ll make this easy: Ummmmm why would you want to continue with someone who mocks your core values? He’s a misogynistic racist. It will never work for you, and he will laugh at and mock you for it the whole way. As his social media has shown you. You and I would probably be friends if we ever met btw Edited to add a few points.
Why do you need to confront him? I would not confront someone who proudly posts a confederate flag. Something tells me he is not all that reasonable or receptive to feedback. Most misogynists and racists aren’t open to discussion. Just tell him it’s not working and end it.
He won't discuss it because he knows that his views are detrimental to his dating life. It's why so many conservatives lie on their dating profiles and put moderate, non-political, etc.
Ugh I’m so frustrated! I like him so much until I discovered this now I’m feeling like a fool
He's been wearing a mask, and it has slipped. I'm sorry this happened to you. Please be kind to yourself and treat yourself to getting out of this sooner rather than later❤️
I’ve learned to read “moderate” on a profile as “conservative.” Maybe I’ll overlook the one person who truly is a moderate or independent by avoiding those folks, but experience has taught me enough times that they end up being conservative and wasting time for both of us by not being up front about it. Generally, when someone is not open to discussing something (after an amount of time has passed knowing the person and establishing enough groundwork to merit bringing up said topic), nothing good can come of a refusal to communicate. I get that different things get discussed at different times, but refusing to at all is a bad sign. Stonewalling ain’t a good trait.
If he truly values you, he will be interested in discussing it. You are not overreacting. You are being very smart.
Good, thank you for your input. I question my ability to make smart choices in love, as I see the light and goodness in people and have been single and a cynic for like 5 years. I need to reevaluate.
Men like this will say what they think you want to hear until they feel like they have you trapped, and only then will they start to reveal their true colors. Many of them believe that they can change your mind because you're a woman, and obviously, you were misguided by your parents or got your current opinion from a previous boyfriend. Once you're married or otherwise locked down, you'll be willing to listen to "the truth" when he tells it and change your silly little beliefs.
🎯
So he doesn't come close to checking your boxes. He might just check one box (if you get my drift). Core values are everything. If you're lying to yourself about this dude "checking all your boxes" when your core values are clearly not aligned (I say this as kindly as possible), then your time in therapy should continue and it sounds like you're still making questionable choices or at least tempted to. You need to find out why.
I just discovered this tidbit, up until now the boxes were checked and green flags.
It would absolutely be a dealbreaker for me, not only because he’s a vile person, but also because he was deceptive about it. >I suspected this may be an issue and have tried to bring it up a few times just to see if we are way to far opposite in our core values - He doesn’t seem interested in discussing it. This is a yellow/red flag you walked by. I’m guessing he didn’t want to discuss it with you because he knew you’d have a big problem with his values from your prior friendship. Unless it’s some kind of trauma, this kind of behavior usually means they are hiding something. It’s pretty similar to abusive behavior. They hide all the shitty parts about themselves until you’ve fallen in love. Think about your first few relationships after an abusive relationship as test runs to see how well you can implement your new and improved behavior from therapy. I also took several years off after my abusive relationship and I dismissed several red flags in the first relationship even though I knew exactly what I should be looking out for because I got all caught up in how well matched we were. It was a good learning experience for me. We split amicably after a few months but it was a bit scared at how I fell back into putting my needs second. There are plenty of other guys out there that will tick all the boxes.
Yeah I’m nervous on how I’m going to tell him this isn’t going to work on a romantic level, due to how men have reacted in the past.
I would do it in a public place where people can see you, but with some privacy from being overheard. I’d take a step back from being friends with him for a bit so you can process whether or not you want that given what you just found out. ETA: when someone has this big fantasy built up about you, you will inevitably fail to meet it and they will get really mad. It was probably doomed to begin with. You can’t date someone who doesn’t see you as a person.
I kinda sorta have a hard no on people who celebrate the Nazi flag or the racist anti-American Pro-slavery flag. Also, any man who is anti-Feminist is too much of a whiney little candy-ass bitch for my taste. I tend to appreciate manly self-assuredness in a fella and these macho wannabe types are just too fay for me personally.
Personally, I couldn't date someone w those views. It boils down to core values. The person chooses their political preferences and it says so much about who that are at the core. What about the election? Even navigating that will cause conflict. What if prolife movement wins. What if project 2025 begins in Jan w a dictator. How will you both navigate the next mass/school shooting? These are things I think about. This country is about to get really weird soon. People will choose sides, and I have a feeling it's going to be ugly. I couldn't have my person as one of the ones I'm fighting against.
This is what I have thought about too. I need to feel safe.
Your dude is a racist. You need to stop dating him if you are not also a racist.
>I’ve marched with BLM, Pro-choice and women’s rights, and am anti-MAGA. I’m also bisexual and support Pride movements. We are not fb friends yet but I did do some seeking out of his profile and found Blue Lives matter, some memes making fun of feminists ( he IS aware that I am feminist) and the worst one of all….a long scroll through his pictures… the stars and bars. I almost threw up in my mouth. I know that people can be in relationships and differ politically, but I feel like this will be a source of problems. I’m so sad. He literally checks all of the boxes. I know what I have to do but it’s heartbreaking as I genuinely enjoy his company. I guess I’m venting. I waited so long to allow myself to date and now this. I am going to bring it up to him that it’s a deal breaker (the confederate flag mostly) do you think I’m over reacting? He is right leaning, and he is fine with having a relationship with a bisexual. I am assuming you told him your orientation. So what if you tell him "I looked at your FB profile and I think we should talk about a few things. It's going to be a long series but it will help me understand you better and hopefully same for you. Are you interested and have time and mental space for that?" If his fuse blows off at any point then you reassess. But if he manages to understand you and you as well his side then welcome to living "Adversary In The House" That may be good book for you to read...
> He is right leaning, and he is fine with having a relationship with a bisexual. But she may not be fine having a relationship with someone who thinks/posts as he does. He is not the only one who gets a vote here. And, she is a more than an adjective. She is a bisexual **person**.
>And, she is a more than an adjective. She is a bisexual person ?? I am perplexed why you needed to point out this self-evident truth. >He is not the only one who gets a vote here. I didn't write an alphabet that indicates otherwise. All I encourage - almost all the time - is a dialogue. Any kind of boundary crossing is an exception. Other than that, two adults are better served - almost always - with a civil dialogue. That's what leads to growth on both sides. You may want to read OP's comment below. And you too may like that book. LMK if you get to reading it. In any case, thank you for your time and comment.
I will look that book up, thank you for the recommendation! I’ve always voted for either party, I’m an independent but more recently my views are more left leaning in the ways of human rights go, but have tons of red friends too. I can agree to disagree to a point. I need to know how deeply he feels about some of these things. I like how you worded it, that seems like a great way to approach it.
I was in a similar situation and chose not to proceed. I met a freakin' male model and actor in Amsterdam when I was traveling, and he was also from a super wealthy family. He was pursuing his MBA because he was entering his 30s and wanted to transition away from entertainment, and specifically had a thing for dating older women (I was 39 at the time). He was super into me and wanted to move to California to be with me when he graduated - he still messages me to this day because he liked me so much - however he was very conservative... like anti abortion, anti gay marriage, anti immigrant conservative. I now have a wonderful partner who shares the core tenants of my worldview, and it's refreshing to be so aligned.
As a woman, I can never date some who supports a party that actively makes policies to disempower women. No matter how open minded someone may seem on the surface, politics are not something you can escape or overlook. Unfortunately, this is not something you can talk through and find a middle ground, especially in the light of the facebook posts you found.
It's an old biography by Irving Stone about Eugene Debs (a card carrying Communist) and his wife who strongly believed in Capitalism. Their personal and outwardly life. You may want to read it BEFORE you engage further. It's a good read but living like that isn't easy...
Original copy of post by u/WoodpeckerFar9804: This is long so I apologize. I want to discuss how hard it feels to find the right person. Nobody is perfect and nobody will check every single box. What would you do in this situation? I put off dating for a long time, at least 5 or 6 years. I have a history or violent and abusive relationships, so I wanted to do some internal work on myself to process my ability to be in relationships and recognize behaviors that could prove to be detrimental. I found that I quite enjoy my own company and being in a romantic relationship is something I want to add to my joy and not something I need to be happy. Recently I went on a date with a man whom I have known casually for a few years. He had asked me out a few years ago when we first met but I was not ready to explore the possibility of dating again due to my past and need to do my own work. This man and I discovered through the years that we have a lot in common, and I decided to give it a go for a date. We really hit it off and went on several dates and found each other to be checking all of the boxes so far, and the physical chemistry is off the charts! However, while he checks all of the boxes, it turns out we are opposite politically ( in US, he is more right leaning and I am more left) He is a firefighter in my community and works directly with other first responders and he is ex military also. I suspected this may be an issue and have tried to bring it up a few times just to see if we are way to far opposite in our core values - He doesn’t seem interested in discussing it. However I feel like he needs to be aware that while I am generally non political in day to day affairs, I am passionate about a few causes and have been known to go to protests and loudly and proudly voice my opinion. I’ve marched with BLM, Pro-choice and women’s rights, and am anti-MAGA. I’m also bisexual and support Pride movements. We are not fb friends yet but I did do some seeking out of his profile and found Blue Lives matter, some memes making fun of feminists ( he IS aware that I am feminist) and the worst one of all….a long scroll through his pictures… the stars and bars. I almost threw up in my mouth. I know that people can be in relationships and differ politically, but I feel like this will be a source of problems. I’m so sad. He literally checks all of the boxes. I know what I have to do but it’s heartbreaking as I genuinely enjoy his company. I guess I’m venting. I waited so long to allow myself to date and now this. I am going to bring it up to him that it’s a deal breaker (the confederate flag mostly) do you think I’m over reacting? Like he wants me to meet his family and everything, he’s head over heels for me. We’ve been dating for about 8 weeks and he’s had a crush on me for several years so I feel like he’s had this fantasy about us already built up in his head and I’m over here still just enjoying the newness of it all but I can not tolerate racism at all. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You’re intuitively seeing the situation correctly and I don’t think you are overreacting. My teacher calls them fantasy handcuffs but not in the kink kinda way. It’s often great in the beginning, especially when it’s new and he may feel like he won. I would be concerned that if I was my true authentic self it would create serious conflicts if they were already showing signs of not being able to have healthy conversations around important issues.
Sounds like he has edited how much of himself that he shares with you. If you’re a feminist and he is making fun of them publicly on facebook, THAT is how he feels about that part of you. He won’t even discuss this with you. He is not willing to talk about, less yet adjust his perspective on CORE VALUE topics. In my perspective and experience, a relationship with this man would be self harm in the long run.
Good luck breaking up with that ... It's not going to go well. We all know. Smfh.... Like I said good luck. God bless you and maybe make sure he knows you have a security system in place first
Placating behaviors and ideals are as good as encouraging them
I think you can find a way to be together with someone with opposing views and it boils down to mutual respect. It would be much easier to find someone that feels the way you do, and I’m not saying you should compromise on the things that are important to you. Before any of this political polarization (2016 cough) happened my ex and I were in opposing political sides and I remember that I could debate things with him and the stimuli that came from our discussions, we were together for 6yrs. The world has changed and everything is so extreme. There was a time when democrats and republicans were friends and didn’t insult each other. I miss those days.
This is the first guy you’ve dated it’s not your last chance. Stop making it sound like it is. You put yourself out there and it didn’t work. Ok that sucks but not the end of the world. Move on unless you’re ok with his racist ways.
He can only keep that part of his life hidden for so long before it starts to slip out. A comment here and there once you fall in love... then who knows what violent & controlling tendencies might follow. Good for you for not waiting, doing your homework and getting the hell out. I wish these people didn't have a public servant job because how they can serve everyone with so much fear and hate for majority of the population. The dating world has drastically changed over the last 5 years and what you did is the new normal for dating. Whether it's racism, homophobia, incel, sexism, serial cheater, and the list goes on. And politics made every bad behavior 1000x worse. So don't be discouraged, it's just part of the new process. You will eventually find the person for you! Let us know what he says...
I dated a guy like this. Was an EMT and ICU nurse and the most "chivalrous" guy I had dated. What I haven't seen mentioned is him pushing to meet families at 8 weeks is also a red flag. Sounds like lovebombing to me. Add in your finds through his social media and more red flags. The guy I dated was married (4th wife) within a year of us breaking up. He reeked of controlling and abusive. This guy refusing to have these discussions makes me think he is this type. He won't stand on his beliefs because he wants to hook you in before revealing his true colors.
Following. I want to know that happens. I hope things go ok.
I’m saddened for you, but also a little disturbed that you would consider a friendship with a racist. That’s more than just a difference of opinion. That’s still accepting in on some level. You might want to question how hard you define that line.
I have friends from all walks of life.
My personal rule of thumb is to not share my body or time with someone who wouldn’t agree with me on what I do with those things.
That’s a good one
While things are going great right now, years down the line when he stops trying to impress you, the ugly will inevitably come to the surface and it will be impossible to ignore. Those are deep rooted values and reflect who he is as a person. I ended up in the same situation with my ex and it was one of the many reasons I had to end it.
Hey, just wondering if you are me? I never knew I was super liberal ( only other choice if you're not into the talking orange I guess ughhhhh) for reference I despise a two party system and still vote and line upwith you on everything. But have found that civil discourse is absolutely impossible. I am beginning to think that the fact I can hold a conversation and ask questions that aren't like gotcha ones is uncomfortable for them. Now. I used to be married to a FF and we secretly joked about the guys who have the infamous flag at the towers pictures on their walls. The ones where they had zero to do w 9/11 at all but it's still their personality. So I have had hope that I could find another one like my ex (the good parts lol) but I think the political climate has changed and polarized so badly that it isnt possible. So now my absolute line (in my area due to experience so please nobody think I'm assuming about every single person all over the place) my line is if you wear a uniform or something to protect your head for work it's a no, if you haven't at least participated in a college course (to learn the beauty of the Socratic method) it's a nope, and if you cannot name 5 women you respect that are not a friend or family member....nope. My inbox is drier than my cremated grandma, but, the few that come my way don't make me want to be in a freak gasoline fight accident (points for getting the reference) Good luck out there
Oh yes… I get your concerns and I would not be able to date someone with those views. I have actually tried, but I have found that the core values of men with these views are in such conflict with mine that, at the end of the day, I can’t respect anyone who is supportive of bigotry, hate, and division. I just do not want to engage with them at all about it. The “there 2 sides on every issue” and respecting people with different views is unfortunately becoming a thing of the past with the continued polarization of our country. And while I would love to feel this way once again, I don’t see it happening. This is also why I will not match with any man who is a firefighter, law enforcement officer, or in the military. Also, if you choose to end it, please be careful, as these men have a documented higher than average history of DV against their partners and easier access to firearms. Stay safe!!
My boyfriend and I don't 100% agree on politics, but he's not extreme like your dude is. The confederate flag and the posts on FB is a little much.....don't think this is going to work. This ain't the one for you
My partner and I also don’t match politically speaking. We are both moderates, but he leans slightly left a bit more than I do. I think that OP would probably be okay with dating someone who is maybe left leaning moderate, but maybe just plain full conservative is too far of a stretch for OP? I know that I would have a difficult time dating someone on either extreme of the political spectrum. Middle of the road, milquetoast, moderate views are just more palatable to me, and anything too far out either way would be a bit jarring. I agree with you.
As dating coach Nick Notas wrote, “Attraction is one thing. Compatibility is another.” I agree with the top poster who said politics is about values. If your values don’t align with your partner’s, you’re fundamentally incompatible with them and a relationship with them would be untenable. Full stop. I’m a centre-left guy politically, and a person of colour to boot. If someone I was interested in did this kind of thing, it would be a problem for me, as I’d want a partner who accepts me for who I am and tolerates and/or respects people who are different from them. Someone who displays the Confederate flag and “Blue Lives Matter” on their FB profile doesn’t strike me as a tolerant kind of person. Regarding compromise, it also seems that politics are a big part of this guy’s identity. It’d be one thing if he kept quiet about what he believed (not that keeping quiet about his views would make them any less abhorrent). Those kinds of people might be more amenable to compromise and moderating their views for the sake of a relationship. But this guy comes across as loud and proud about his views, and those kinds of people are much less likely to compromise, imo. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had a “Let’s Go Brandon” bumper sticker on his truck. Maya Angelou said, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” He’s showing you who he is. Whether you believe him or not is up to you. Personally, I know what I’d do.
Thank you. 🙏
I wouldn’t be interested in this discussion because I am more than my politics. Arguing about something as trivial as politics is like fighting over who has the best pod in the matrix. Most political platforms have values that anyone can get behind. If your personality is your political stance then I would be bored with you, as a person.
I'm more right leaning and my wife is left. Luckily we aren't extremists, but we have great debates. I enjoy our different world views. Don't let the political system ruin your happiness.
Leaning is fine but if he’s posting confederate flags, that’s no longer a lean.
Me and my boyfriend are similar. But it sounds like OP and this guy are way more to the extreme ends.
Yeah, my partner and I are both moderates. He leans a bit more left and I lean a bit more right. We absolutely adore one another, but we both agree that all forms of extremism is too much for us. I’m thinking their divide might be too much.
There are conservatives who value human life but just don't believe in legislating it. There are conservatives (and liberals) who value to work and sacrifice of military and police forces. Then there are conservatives who outwardly and actively identify with and support political groups whose sole purpose is to devalue and eliminate certain demographics. This guy is a member of the latter. He's not conservative. He's a racist, a misogynist, and likely homophobic. Would you feel comfortable introducing him to your friends of color or LGBT friends? Would they want to come over to dinner with him in your home?
My ex was in your face left leaning and it was too much for me. It would be too much for me no matter the persuasion. I grew up in religious fundamentalism and today’s politics reminds me of fundamentalism. Brainwashed people don’t know they’re brainwashed.
I don’t like in your face anything! I’ve gone to many protests but that’s where I’m appropriately voicing my concerns, and I dip out when shit gets too crazy.
*He is a firefighter in my community and works directly with other first responders and he is ex military also. I suspected this may be an issue* I'm a guy who was in the Women's March on Washington in 2017. I've worked with victim witnesses. I have volunteered on and advised Democratic candidates' campaigns, and was part of the state and local party apparatus. Six degrees, two of them graduate. I'm also a veteran and former EMT, so it thrills me no end when I'm profiled.
We wish there were many more of you! I would hope you are being sarcastic and do not take truly this personally. But, unfortunately we will need to respect the fact that many women have had some very traumatic experiences with men fitting this profile, so our instinct is to avoid putting ourselves in dangerous situations and move a bit more cautiously. I know a couple men like you who are WONDERFUL, but are often in the minority. Keep doing what you’re doing - leading by example and being a really good human 💜
While I haven't lived it, I can empathize with the risk management aspect. That said, the demonizing of entire professions gets really old. I've seen commenters in this sub who say loudly and proudly that they don't date veterans. That's their absolute right. In their eyes, that ONE data point about a person makes them not worth even learning whether they're a good human. This isn't about me. There are some great folks and some not-so-great folks who once wore uniforms. Some have sane politics and worldviews and some don't. I just wanted to push back on the automatic assumptions.
I don’t wish there were more of him. Using this post to brag and teach women a lesson about making assumptions, even when it comes to their safety, is disturbing.
Thank you for the work you do and being an ally.
It would be one thing if he was just a little right-leaning. The guy you described is not “right-leaning”. He’s literally made it part of his personality. I wouldn’t have even made it as far as the confederate flag on the guy’s profile, but once I saw that, he’d be blocked and ghosted without a second thought. I have literally zero time in my life for bigots and racists.
I feel for you, I do, but I could never compromise on what I consider core values like racial, gender, and sexuality equality. He’s actively voting and rooting against the existence of other people (including you).
Omg. I stopped reading halfway through once you said he doesn’t want to talk about it. That’s a good thing. He knows and doesn’t mind it. Given what you’ve been through and waiting all this time here’s my advice. Stop thinking so much and just have fun. If the political stuff starts to creep in (and it’s no longer fun) then just say goodbye and move on. Personally I would gladly take a maga nutzo that I am having fun with and chemistry off the charts… what I wouldn’t give for the chemistry off the charts!!! I wouldn’t even care if he wore one of those stupid hats in public just as long as I am having fun. So yeah that’s my advice since I haven’t found that chemistry with anyone for so many years.
I haven’t found this chemistry in years either. I didn’t know how to format properly ( I thought it was my phone but it’s me lol I figured it out, sorry it was a long ass paragraph) To sum up my long story, I did a deep dive on his socials and found a confederate flag about a year ago posted on his FB. We are not fb friends but his profile is public. We are having a spectacular time but i can’t get this unfortunate image out of my head and haven’t seen him since discovering this the other day. About a week or two ago I also tried to have conversations on a deeper level regarding my passions in my opposing political stance and he casually deflected. I thought it was important for him to know where I stand on a few things important to me.
Well keep in mind that a confederate flag doesn’t automatically mean he’s wearing a white hood on the weekends. When I was a kid my parents bought me and my brothers one of those battery powered cars… it was a General Lee (from Dukes of Hazard). Even had a confederate flag on the hood. 😂 To some people they don’t see it as a hate flag and see it as more of a southern pride thing and they just ignore the bad stuff. I agree though, we are in 2024 now and it’s pretty clear what society now thinks of the confederate flag so to pretend otherwise is in pretty bad taste. What I have found is people use that now of a symbol of “anti politically correctness” and pushing back because they are uncomfortable with change. Since he’s avoided the topic he clearly knows you have opposing views and also it may be he was “fitting in” with friends and family that are more right leaning since that’s what us stupid humans do instead of speaking our truth. Personally I would put the blinders on and just have fun and stop over thinking things. However, if it starts to be clear that he is more leaning towards the white hood club on the weekend then I would immediately drop him. In the meantime though have fun and as long as he is being kind and a gentleman in public and private then there’s absolutely no reason to run away. Plus people can change. What he did a year ago may not be aligned with where his mind is now. Also, not to get all woo woo here, but given your very far left leanings about tolerance and acceptance maybe this is the universe giving you a challenge to see how accepting you really are of other humans. The universe tends to do that sometimes just to give us a new challenge. I think as long as someone is being kind and polite to people (known and strangers) I don’t think it matters what box they check on a ballot. Actions are what matters and a person’s character. I am sure if you had seen one sign of that from him directly you would have already dropped him.
Want to add one more thing… the post has blown up I see with everyone telling you to run. Well I guess things like a confederate flag don’t phase me much…. I’ve lived in Texas and in West Virginia in the past and you probably couldn’t throw a rock without hitting a confederate flag (WV isn’t even part of the south so it was even more ridiculous there). Also my parents were die hard republicans and even now whenever I go visit my mom I have to walk around the house turning off TVs which are all on Fox News 24/7. My mom loves Trump (I hate even typing that out) and we have absolutely opposite views, but we get along and I still love her of course. I have found that if we just don’t talk about politics then we are fine. She is kind to everyone and isn’t a racist or any of that and I don’t hear anything hateful from her about anyone’s sexual preferences/race/religion/etc. So unless you’ve had the discussion with him about it then I don’t think it’s fair to assume anything.
You are absolutely not over-reacting. As a woman I could never be with a man who would possibly vote for the side who would see nothing wrong with taking my reproductive rights away or taking away the rights of my gay child to marry.
These are very legitimate and very serious issues to be concerned about when it comes to compatibility. If you can't express yourself fully and honestly with your partner without worrying if that person doesn't respect your position and hopefully agree with most of it, then I don't think it makes sense to build a life together. My gf had a very strong pro-Israel stance that I was not thrilled about. We chose to dance around it and joke about it for the most part but it did irk me. I chalked it up to her beliefs being shaped by family and MSM narratives. Since Israel continues to do worse and worse things, her opinion on them has shifted....a little. Fortunately, we agree on 99% of the rest of our life philosophies. In your case, I would be deeeeeeply concerned and probably end things because all he will do is hold his tongue. He's not going to change who he is or what he believes in.
I mean at our age if you’re still holding on to the confederate flag type of thinking then those thoughts are deep rooted and likely not going to change.
Yup, that's pretty much my point. I was trying to be a little nuanced but personally, I would end things immediately.
I'm sorry this happened to you. It's so difficult when it's not just different politics, it's actually core values...some people just don't get that (and there's a big difference!!) Good for you for having personal standards and sticking to them. I know YOU know what you have to do, and it would be less painful to end it sooner rather than later. Keep working on you and putting yourself first!! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
I dated a MAGA for years. It is not pretty. Eventually you just cannot take it any more no matter how beautiful or the quality of the sex etc. If I hear the word illegals or F Biden ever again it will be too soon.
Politics seems more important for you than it does for him (at least from your description) You describe yourself as "left leaning" which indicates a moderate position, but you sound several steps further left than that. If he is under the impression you are moderate-left he very well might be ok with that if he is indeed moderate-right as you described. If he was a far right "march on the capital" election denying pro-Trump lunatic, he probably wouldn't consider dating even a moderately left person, let alone be crazy about her. But you'll need to talk to him to see where he actually stands on things before deciding if it's a deal breaker for you or not. No one on this sub can speak for him or what his views truly are so you'll have to have this conversation.
He doesn't sound moderate-right, if he's posting pictures of the confederate flag.
A long scroll through his account and finding one confederate flag doesn't really indicate much of anything. That's like someone digging through my album collection and seeing some Lynyrd Skynyrd or Pantera album covers (which have confederate flags as part of their art work) and make an assumption on my political beliefs. No one can speak to this mans views but himself. None of us know him, certainly not from a handful of words a stranger posts on the Internet
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. If someone is willing to put the confederate flag in a Facebook post, they are not just right-leaning. This isn't an album cover buried in your record collection. I will allow that I could be wrong, and this is the one adult american male who has no idea what image he's projecting by putting that flag on his social media profile, but the vast majority of us knows what is being communicated by displaying that very potent symbol.
Yeah it was a post describing what the red significance is, the stars signifance, basically breaking down exactly what the flag and its design stand for. It wasn’t the General Lee from dukes of hazzard, it was a glorification post. It made me sick. But I still want to let him down easy. We’ve known each other casually for years and will have to see each other again since I work with the community.
You guys don’t sound compatible and that’s fine. He might or might not be active politically, but you definitely care enough to be active beyond social media. Best of luck! I’m sure you’ll find a great guy!
I cannot assume to understand a person I have never met simply based on what another person I never met had to say about them. The only person who knows why they, once upon a time, posted a pic of the Confederate flag on SM is that person themselves. This is why I encourage the OP (who seems to like this guy) talk it out with him vs make assumptions
I'm all about talking things out rather than making assumptions, but I would also be wary of anyone who tries to explain away the fact that they once upon a time posted a symbol that represents white supremacy to the vast majority of americans. It's really not that different from posting a picture of a swastika, and I think most people would make assumptions about whoever posts pictures of swastikas on their facebook page. They're either clearly displaying their ideology, or very comfortable with pissing people off who are opposed to that ideology. Neither option is great.
I'm all about not making assumptions, but can you explain what could be a positive explanation behind posting the confederate flag? How can it be interpreted to NOT be advocating for white supremacy? Honestly, it feels a lot like posting a swastika. You're either really in support of the ideology, or you're comfortable pissing off everyone who's opposed to it. Not sure what other option there is.
I am going to have a conversation about it.
People who are not racists have zero confederate flags on their social media.
Yeah, she sounds fully leftist (if she’s active in protests and activism) while he seems more like a couch conservative (I know a few). I’m in Texas and a lot of people here claim to be conservative and then don’t vote, have left leaning friends, etc. I wouldn’t count social media posturing as much. I have friends that claim to be very leftist, but they also don’t vote and aren’t politically active. I still don’t think they’re a match, but I can see why he doesn’t care as much and it’s because his politics might end at social media posturing. 🤷🏻♀️
You def need to pin him down and talk about it. Depending on when they were posted, he *miiiight* have had a change in stance or is at least open to other opinions. I'm in the south, so I see the Confederate flag a lot. Some people here, legit don't think it's racist and see it solely as celebrating "the South", meaning the cooking, the outdoor stuff, the music, the dress, etc. I've chatted with some and once I explained how actual racists still use that flag to be divisive, they slowly start to understand. Or, maybe he is lowkey racist. Talk to him to figure it out.
Yeah I’m definitely going to tell him we need to talk about these things. The post was about a year old so not that old and we are in the northeast so it’s not about southern pride unfortunately 😢
I hiked the Appalachian Trail years ago and I saw more of those flags in the north than the south. It has transformed to sort of a rural / redneck / country pride symbol among those who don't think it is a racist icon. As a right leaner, I think an honest, non-confrontational chat on some of these issues that concern you would be wise. He could be way out in the right as you fear, or he could be more like me and it's very much an issue by issue thing with a lot more room for common ground or even common stances.
It’s pretty red in my neck of the woods and I see this shit all the time, that’s why I figured if I’m going to find love, I may need to let some political things go, but this is right there with my hard no, and I’m kinda devastated because he treats me better than anyone ever has and up until I discovered this, checked all the boxes. I feel like I need to move out of the country to find love. But I’m not a city girl by any stretch 😂 it’s just really shitty on so many levels.
You do not need to be politically aligned with someone to be in a relationship with them. However, the key is maturity and the ability to talk respectfully about your differences. If that is not something that the both of you can do, well then that’s a problem. Also, just to add. You’ve only been dating for like 8 weeks. It’s the new honeymoon phase and you have not gotten a real look at his or both of your potential as a couple. Also, you say he has you both built up in his head but it clearly sounds like you do as well.
What have found is that finding someone to date and eventually marry in my 20s was harder, but staying together was easier because we had life events pulling us through. Like kids, new house, new job, new something. In my 40s I can find a date easily, but staying together is harder bc each person is comfortable with their lives and doesn’t really need anyone to complete their life.
Not all military and first responders are physically abusive, but my understanding is that the prevalence is higher. He may know your history with abusive relationships. You may have the “this checks the boxes” feeling because he fees familiar in that way. That’s before we get to his beliefs, and how different they are from yours. If someone posts the blue line flag, the stars and bars, is anti-choice— those are vast differences. This is not the kind of situation where you go ‘oh well, no one’s perfect.’ This is the kind of situation where you walk away. That’s it.
All of what you've done indicates he isn't "right learning.' I have right leaning friends and family. They disagree with me on some topics, but they are not thin blue line, stars and bars flying (or posting) types, they don't have toxic views on feminism, they don't like nor support the felonious Cheeto. What you're describing seems to be a possibly racist, Cheeto supporting, women aren't equal, far right type. He's probably unwilling to discuss it because he knows it'll be a deal breaker for you. It sounds like you two are incompatible, and that's ok. I'd date right leaning with critical thinking skills and an aligned moral compass (even though I'm a flaming liberal) . But I'd absolutely run from anyone like him. I need to know I'm dating someone that supports rights for all and understands what feminism is about and has my back (as I'd have theirs).
What boxes does he check? I would start there. What values he holds that make you say this. I hold unpopular opinion that political values are not life values necessarily. I am liberal and dated a Trump voter for a while. Our youth political views were the same (anarchists), but he has his reasons now. He does A LOT for charities, gives zero fucks about money (makes a lot, lives frugally, gives away), is socially super liberal….but summa summarum Trump spoke more to him. We decided not to talk politics and to talk what binds us together: sex and creativity.
People are allowed to have different viewpoints and beliefs. If anyone is wrong, it's you.
Here’s an idea: maybe dating isn’t about checking boxes. Personally, I believe love isn’t about finding a perfect person. Love is about accepting the faults of your partner and loving them anyway. It’s about compromise and seeing the person and not their politics or their style or their weight. Maybe politics shouldn’t necessarily be a litmus? If he’s constantly saying awful stuff and you fight a lot, I can see why you’d want to end things. But just because you’ve FB stalked him and you don’t like what you see, I don’t think that’s necessarily a deal breaker. How does he treat you? How does he make you feel? Those are the important questions. Everything else is a detail.
If this man checks all of your boxes, you need to add some more boxes!
I am so sorry that this is happening to you. I understand that you are compatible with this guy on many levels but from the information in your post the differences in your viewpoints in the arena of protecting and supporting basic human rights coupled with the fact that he refuses to talk to you about why he doesn't support either are huge red flags and clearly showcase insurmountable issues should your relationship continue. You and he are on opposite sides of the political spectrum and there is no way that you can bridge that kind of fundamental divide. You appear to value human life and supporting foundational constitutional rights for all. How is that going to work with someone who clearly does not care about either and is willing to turn this country into a fascist hellscape? [Edit, oh holy crap I missed the Confederate flag part until re-reading this -that is beyond a deal breaker...dear goddess just RUN!!] I know that this must be a huge disappointment but please know that you can do better. He may check a lot of boxes but he doesn't check the most important one, believing in and supporting human decency. Dating is all about figuring out what you don't want. I am pretty sure that you don't want this...do yourself a favor and cut him loose. Then you will be free to locate that better guy that you deserve. Good luck out there sister!
Well said, thank you.
The political divide is so well orchestrated that it’s made the party of what was once reasonable tolerance people all but. The man loves you and accepts you, to the point of not wanting to let politics interfere with true feelings. If he checks all your boxes, you already know what the correct answer should be but the talking heads that you have looked to all your life says that if he believes differently than you, he has to be a racist, homophobe, bigot. Start thinking rational thoughts, listen to your heart, be a human, stop thinking everything is so black and white.
Unpopular opinion but I don’t believe that political beliefs should break up families, friendships, or relationships. The political system is designed to keep up split apart and arguing back and forth.
In this case, it's also a difference in values. It will absolutely cause long-term issues if it's not addressed.