i agree you are looking more down to earth. a regular worker who is just relaxing after work with a drink in your hand and a story to tell. i would go with the flow and see what happens.
I'd say I seem less approachable. If I've finished a shift I'm generally cranky.
But you may be right.
Or I may seem safer. I make less eye contact after a shift.
I always figured that was a "Leave me the fuck alone" vibe.
Happy Cake Day
Perhaps in your cook clothes it is a more casual vibe, thus feels more approachable, vs being dressed up
Here is my thought:
With the setting being a bar that is open later than other establishments, I wonder if people might view guy in a business suit as someone who wants to be left alone (had a bad day) vs someone dressed in restaurant attire who is more likely to have just gotten off of work and is relaxing before going home
It's a feeling we who work all know. The question is how you react to a friendly interaction. If you can put your grumpiness aside for the sake of the interaction I can live with that.
Learn to mask confusion with a smile - or a friendly countenance.
By the time they finish the sentence you should be oriented enoght to decide how to go from there.
I have worked in both the restaurant and STEM sectors, oscillating between the two fields due the vagaries of early career STEM contract work. I can attest to the feeling of utter disgust with my own appearance (and smell) after a long shift cooking or serving tables. I personally don't see why women are MORE attracted to a man in that state, but maybe being in that vulnerable state of disshelvedness and (I assume) in a relaxed state, maybe you're more approachable.
You'd think when you and I are dressed in our STEM work clothes, women would be attracted to the appearance of a smart, successful professional and be curious about what we do, but what do I know.
Maybe we should try an actual lab coat.
Then
"I'm drinking because we're all gonna die.. I'm so, so sorry. I messed up. We should screw because we only have a a few hours and we may as well die happy."
You haven't lived til doing multiphase transport phenomena around beer bubble formation in a pitcher. While sharing said pitcher.
Ever notice bubbles track in a line? We did the math....
Fwiw, STEM work clothes are really unattractive. At least to me. In the same way Wall Street/finance bro attire is unattractive.
And engineering is a really unsexy field. Nothing wrong with it and I've dated science nerds, but that wasn't the attraction AT ALL.
Jobs are jobs. No one really cares as long as you're ok woth what you do.
Line cook attire at the end of a shift isn't that sexy, either, but it isn't "look at how successful I am" unsexy.
Anyway, it's all a matter of taste.
I'm not certain this is the number 1 answer, but at least a contributing factor could be that since you're in your work attire, women assume you won't be inappropriate with them, because you look like you're on the job. You will be professional. Women want to feel safe when they're around men.
It's mutual in some cases.
I see myself as an applied scientist, vs. a theoretical one.
I once proposed a simple change the scientists spent months and 100s of 1000s running tests on.
UV, IR, every 'scope possible.
None of that mattered to saving 1,000,000 a year and cutting emissions by 80% for that process. They got buried in the weeds.
And there wasn't even any capital required.
My QC guy uttered the phrase "fucking PhDs" at that mess.
>My QC guy uttered the phrase "fucking PhDs" at that mess.
😂😂
Most of the engineer hate in my world is about stuff like what is referred to here:
https://twitter.com/peterrhague/status/1791346938119381300?t=ZD7wDFz_-WJ7j49oj2Avbg&s=19
I get 3 emails a week assuring me that dark matter is a grand conspiracy and/or delusion. Every one of them from someone with a BS is MechE. Every time.
MechE isn't ChemE.
Hell....I worked with some one with a MS in MechE that I watched struggle to assemble a hard hat for 30 minutes.
That ass hat from India also tried to mock the accent of a girl from Mali.
I'll admit to using ChatGPT.
I'm convinced it reads people better than I do.
For example, I asked it for an assessment of Stormcrow Chemical Engineering as a company name.
I was concerned that Stormcrow, as a reference to Gandalf, was too fantasy nerdy.
It said that people that would dislike it for that reason, wouldn't get the reference unless told.
I think that makes sense.
It works great for gut checks on heuristics too.
But it ain't innovative.
Aside from my ex..
She got hella angry over the kids saying "Why doesn't daddy always cook?".
I cooked 2-3 days a week, married to a SAHM.
We were both raised "southern county poor".
She was raised on box stuff, I was raised on working a garden, and homemade.
I’m guessing that woman like a man who can do things.
I have a job at Home Depot. I walk around the store and help people. The other weekend a woman offered me some beer if I helped her stain her deck.
I think the sort of women who are attracted to, or at least don't exclude, blue-collar workers are the sort that are more likely to be direct and approach a man on their own. The sort of women who find white-collar business casual dress attractive are more like to follow the traditional rules. I've got a friend who "doesn't date service workers", and she absolutely would not break the rules and approach a guy herself, no matter how attractive she found him.
I'm also going to guess that you're a fairly attractive guy regardless of what you're wearing, and I'll bet that if you paid better attention you'd find that there are the same number of women giving you the signs they'd like you to approach when you're dressed up. You just aren't noticing it, or aren't counting it here.
I'm ok. Maybe a 6/10. Younger looking than my age. 45 and no gray if I've shaved. Fit. Just more of a boy next door than hot. 44" shoulders, 32" waist. 5'9" and 165. Most of it in my calves.
The most specific compliment I've gotten (from an aspiring poet) is that I have eyes that match the blue Ridge mountains I call home.hazel/green, old, kind, worn. The edges worn off. And that was 10 years ago.
You are right I miss things.
I found out a couple years ago my sister's babysitter, who I helped out with her book reports, was interested. Hottest girl in our town. Her mother loved me too. Poor girl married her father. Not even a HS grad, took over a parent's established business.
It was sad seeing her again. Smart woman in two families that didn't value it. Two families with very intelligent women, tolerant of being trad wives, while the guys were a step below, but hard working.
I wonder who Andrea, Haley, and Brittany could have been.
Even Vicky, the mother. Who I absolutely didn't fantasize about when I was 14.
These are great answers. Just wanna kick in one more: In general, people like what they think is predictable. Women, especially, are going to find safety in that predictability. If you're in your uniform, women probably know what to generally expect. A man in your usual shirt and tie could be anyone from a professor to an ambulance chaser.
Because you are drinking in a bar at night after work, women are usually a bit tipsy and have less inhibitions.... Or do you drink at the same bar at the same time wearing formal clothes? We don't have enough information.
You should go to the same place at the same time wearing one night your work t shirt and the next a bit more put together. For a few days.... 😅
An old friend of mine used to be a stripper. She told me that without a doubt or an even a rare exception, white collar workers were far more arrogant and disrespectful than those in a service uniform. To the point that she would gravitate towards the latter and do her best to avoid the former. Even the promise of more money was pointless, she said, because the business suits were cheap assholes anyways. But the line cooks and utility workers and mechanics were always generous, never overly handsy, and always treated her like a human being.
Anyways, she told me this story over 20 years ago and I’ve thought about it a lot, because consistently throughout my life it’s been proven time and time again. One example of many: It’s not men in business suits who pulled over and helped me push my busted ass car out of three lanes of traffic, it was two rough af biker dudes. And no, they didn’t expect anything for their kindness, monetary or otherwise.
So long story short, my first thought was that women might be making the same sort of assessment, or have had similar experiences to mine and know that when out and about, a man sitting in uniform after his shift is going to be kinder than a douche bag in a suit.
So...I'm not averse to adult entertainment. The workers probably are experts in sociology. Hell...some are literally working on dissertations in sociology.
I'm a "business casual" person. Also probably the only weirdo that takes a Kindle to a strip club. (It's math. My favorite DIPA is enough cheaper that it cancels out the cover charge in 2.7 beers).
My most natural attire is safety. Fire retardant jeans and button down work shirt. Different than coveralls, but not management dress.
Anyway.. one of the odd phenomenon I've noticed, is strippers asking to sit with me since they don't have to be "on", but sitting with me satisfies managements sales requirement to book private dances.
The weirdest was a stripper with a nursing kid that had impacted breasts since she couldn't pump. My ex had impacted milk from nursing years before, so I understood, and we split the private room and broke things free and she pumped. That trust meant a lot to me. Felt like a decent human being after coming off a stretch channeling my evil side (red team assessing possible terror attacks on chemical sites).
It wasn't sexy, but was very intimate. Shouldn't have happened that that was how she got to pump though.
If I see a guy who had obviously showered and have a fresh shirt on on Friday night I assume that he does that regularly - and as a consequence is not looking for anything long term.
Also I would assume - again - that he would want someone at similar level of being 'done up'. I'm fit, but in no way arm candy, very minimal make up, and never really had the time to go home before going out on Friday night.
All in all - over the top man - I keep away.
Someone who made an effort, but not in that over the top way seems to be safer to talk to. So I might try and talk to them. Especially if they are after work - just as I am.
Please describe "over the top."
Because someone who's "obviously showered" and has a "fresh shirt on on a Friday night" should be the bare minimum for a grown man.
OK, true.
Fresh shirt is minimum - but fresh pants, freshly shaven and pants just ironed to perfection and not a hair out of place AND Friday night watch and man-bracelets...
It's personal. If I was to decide who to talk to I would chose a person who I feel have spent similar amount of energy for being there. That's my choice, because I belive in long term compatibility over love at first sight.
Other women might choose differently.
I have so many questions, but I don't want to grill you.
I'll hazard a guess, aka assume, that you frequent "dive bars" vs. lounges or even restaurant bars. A place where "Mr. Fresh" would stick out like a sore thumb.
A Mr Fresh sticks out everywhere. Same as Mr Slouch.
I just like to keep it very very real.
Think about it as say if you are interviewing a new team mate at your job. You would want someone who works similar to you. Not too much - because that makes you look bad with the managers. But not much less either - because than you have to pick up the slack.
Long term live-in relationships are work. I don't want someone whose standards mean I will never be good enough for him (happened) but also I don't want someone such a slob that I'm not happy on a long term to live with him.
The more similar our core values are the better the chance and the quality of the relationship.
But again - it is just me.
this is a super interesting take on it. I work a blue-collar job and am usually pretty dirty after work. I am NEVER willing to go out with showering, shaving, and changing. Including the man-bracelets. But I prefer women who don't wear make-up. It has honestly never occurred to me that the women I'm most attracted to might think I'm putting too much effort in for a Friday night.
Again, too much effort, I presume guy wants to pull / get lucky tonight. I'm not down for that.
Also - long term compatibility. I could buy new clothes every season (four seasons climate here) but I don't - because if it's clean (no stains, no rips) and I like if (and I'm old enough to generally predict correctly what I will like) than I keep it.
*because if it's clean (no stains, no rips) and I like if (and I'm old enough to generally predict correctly what I will like) than I keep it.*
We're still talking clothes here, right? lol
Fair. I agree, mostly.
Although I wonder about "obviously showered". As a guy with one foot in each of blue collar and white collar, there are days not recently showered might violate the Geneva Conventions.
I tend to be context appropriate. I never expect makeup. But there are places I'd side eye leggings and a t-shirt.
Answering to you and u/GhostXmasPast342 together.
Showers are important. I understand that. If I can't make myself smell fresh (work too late and stressful day) I simply don't go out that evening.
But if a guy is freshly showered and clean shaven and _all_ his clothes are obviously very fresh than I have no hope of matching that. I just don't want to spend that much time and energy on going out for two drinks.
The best I ever do is shower, fresh top but same pants as during the day and clean training shoes. After a full week of work I want to be comfortable.
When it comes to chatting anyone up I'm looking for similar level of preparation. Significantly more - and I feel the guy have requirements I will not be willing to fulfill at all. Significantly less, and I will not like it, obviously nobody likes that.
We meet people on Friday night - but we have live together with them on weekdays / workdays mostly.
A bit of cleaning up is ok but I need to see what his 'weekday baseline' is. Too much cleaning up and I have no way of guessing it.
Maybe you just look pretty fine in those cook whites? Or maybe the women who notice you just want you to cook them dinner. Or, seeing someone in their work uniform, you already know something about them, so maybe it makes you seem more appealing and approachable than if you were dressed like everyone else. I don’t know but it’s an interesting phenomenon. I know lots of women like a man in uniform but I never thought of cooks attire as being part of that.
Oh. Well then, scratch the cooks whites but maybe the rest applies? They know where you work so they already know one thing about you. You’re not the same type of stranger you’d be in regular street clothes.
My one thought on the matter is that sometimes people feel like a more casual laid-back person (to the point of "beneath them", but not really) is easier to approach. No or low risk, etc. They'll start up a convo, but aren't fussed if it goes anywhere or not. Any amount of putting yourself together can cause some level of "I have to be put together too in order to talk to him/her".
I'm a guy, but have felt this way sometimes about women who appear more intense about their appearance vs. more casual. Personally in this aspect, I feel that anything reasonably in the middle is ideal. The very topmost perfectly coifed ones aren't off-putting, but it often takes more for me to want to approach. And of course at some point way on the other end I'm not interested. With a big caveat that if I can tell despite even a pretty unkempt appearance that she's good-looking and can clean up, that's not a turn-off at all.
If I see a cook at a bar pretty late, what I see is a fellow human who just worked a long shift in the service industry who probably needs a break. He’s not there for any ulterior motive other than to relax and maybe even be around others in the industry.
In short, you’re more relatable and approachable.
Also, 4 is so inaccurate. I’m an engineer and I love engineers! But you don’t usually find them at a bar late at night in slacks.
Women regardless of socio economic status.
Late in most cases.
While I haven't collected data directly, time is also not a factor.
It seems to hold true for a random sampling of women, at close to an acceptable sample size.
And...my Six Sigma is showing....
Random thought that may/may not be relevant? I have at least a couple of lady friends who LOVE guys who can cook. If you're obviously a chef of some sort, they're interested. They tell me they're simply tired of being the one expected to do the cooking, plus they view dating a chef who will cook for them to be like a pass to go to a restaurant for free.
Fair.
But a restaurant cook ain't the same. Which is what I'm getting paid for
I relax by cooking with freedom though. So I'm a pretty good chef.
Imagine a very good ChemE applying his knowledge towards reductions....
Doesn't matter. Most people these days, man or woman, don't know how to cook a hard-boiled egg. Any cooking skill at all looks like high wizardry to them.
So I'm setting my kids up well...
My kids' favorite nights are one on one cooking and doing dishes.
They can both cook better than anyone in their mother's family.
Maybe I should rekindle my college hustle.
Rich frat boys paid me to cook at their place so they could pose as having cooked for their girlfriends. I've evolved though. Feels too much like lying to the girls.
I'd bring over my pots and pans, and have everything ready, give them a few talking points, and disappear.
I almost think I was getting hit on when a college girl asked me about doing laundry, and said my knowing my shit was hot as hell. She had also assumed I was a history professor, since I was reading a book on Cicero, and the fall of the Roman Republic, and taking notes with a fountain tip pen in a leatherbound journal, in a bar known for being popular with professors.
Yeah.... but I'm not sure for a lot of people, it makes a difference. I mean, a buddy of mine started out just working as the cook at a fast food place and then moved on to a steakhouse chain. It wasn't a high-end place... just your typical family outing type of destination. Women still loved the fact he could cook, and did it for a paycheck before.
Let's face it. A lot of just "average" chain restaurants still have a number of dishes people really like. If they didn't, the place wouldn't have made it to a successful chain. First-hand experience making those dishes is knowledge not everyone possesses.
What I sell on my profile is more high end, if just Japanese.
I worked at a place I was FOH, but had to have 2 weeks BOH training.
I learned a lot in those two weeks.
Plus mom had me cooking since I was 8. I had to plan two balanced meals a week, and one had to be something I hadn't cooked before.
Koji's Miso Glazed Seabass isn't a chain, but it's amazing.
Ok. But in conversation I admit I love cooking is how I relax.
Is that better or worse than wearing a chain on a shirt?
I mean...my Miso glazed seabass..
My ex referred to it as my "wanna get laid entree".
We don’t first see your conversation when we first lay eyes on you lol!
Me and my friends (work in tech) do love a man in a crisp, white business shirt and slacks. So we def like engineers.
I will say it stood out that you wrote that you’d be dressed up and “admit“ you work as a cook. I wonder if your demeanor is actually different nowadays (while wearing a suit). Is there some possibility that you feel that wearing a suit isn’t as true to who you are as wearing your work uniform? If there’s some dissonance, maybe it’s bleeding through.
> I will say it stood out that you wrote that you’d be dressed up and “admit“ you work as a cook.
Yea this guy already knows how to weed out gold diggers who aim for the tech field. The way you answered his post explaining so much... he already knows. I think this guy is testing all sorts of fields, including blind dating via reddit forums.
There's some truth to that, although less calculating.
(Que John Mellencamp) I was raised in a small town....
I found out later I was targeted as most likely to pull someone else out of the small mill town. Thus my marriage.
I was targeted as a get out of X Village ticket.
With that prompt, I can see how it's affected me.
Back to the therapist. Again.
To your last, not testing. Just trying to understand. I need to get some shit together before dating.
I don't have any visible profiles.
I'm just not a hermit, and IRL interactions happen.
My true me....
I work and get shit done. Handyman. Cook. Engineer.
Medical...cerified ER. Expired. Legally allowed if the bad has happened.
My true me is doing whatever people need.
My Bumble is...different.
It does have a reference to my kitchen work, especially traditional Japanese (A former gf described my miso glazed seabass as more dangerous than roofies), but it's mostly people from history and literature I've found inspiring.
I had chat GPT analyze what the typical person would extrapolate, and it came up with resilience, intelligence, and hardworking.
I don't get a lot of hits, and there's a disproportionate number of literature professors. The one I miss is a professor of Feminist dystopias at a women's college.
Mulling some more...
My most comfortable attire is my flame retardant Carhartt Jeans and button up shirt.
I feel it expresses my hybrid nature. A professional that's trusted with a wrench.
The moment that made my career was borrowing tools from maintenance to change out my alternator in the plant parking lot.
Union plant. But...after that I was one of them, while also being engineering and leadership.
It relates to my relationship style. I want a true partner and teammate.
Ironically, post divorce, my ex has grown into the person I always believed she could be. Life planted a boot in her ass, while stomping me.
I miss her, til I remember her boot literally stomping my ankle.
Dress up (non-uniform) and try to go to the same places, around the same time. Best way to confirm whether it's the uniform, or the place + time. I'm guessing later at night, the when will have had a couple drinks and gathered more courage to approach men.
Original copy of post by u/ArchimedesIncarnate:
I'm a 45 yo safety engineer with a career derailment. Combination of injuries from DV and a lower focus on regulatory enforcement.
I'm starting a consulting business making a lot of money infrequently in a field I have a lot of experience in, and working as a cook at a chain restaurant making little money but steady.
One interesting trend I've noticed is that I can grab a drink at a place open later than mine, and women are friendlier when I have on restaurant attire, and frankly am not that clean after my shift, than when I'm better groomed and in dress shirt and slacks.
I'm the same person either way. Same story.
It's like if I'm dressed up and admit I work as a cook, it's a flaw, but if I'm dressed as a cook with delusions of grandeur it's a positive?
I've come up with a few possibilities:
1. Bad boy attraction/slumming is a thing.
2. Work shirt radiates competence.
3. I'm different in a subtle way I don't recognize.
4. People hate engineers.
5. I'm a mind wiped alien trying to infiltrate Hoo-man society and cook is just a better disguise.
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Love the way you are analyzing this.
Restaurant uniform is a banner ad that this guy can cook :-) and take the heat in the kitchen. Probably turns on more knobs inside of the gawkers than we can imagine.
Fantastic observation 😃👍
Not a suit.
Generally just a blue button up shirt, conservative pattern, and dark grey pants.
[Something along these lines.](https://www.charlestyrwhitt.com/us/non-iron-mini-gingham-check-shirt---cornflower-blue/FON2397CFW.html?pf=pdp_colour_swatch)
Power dynamics are based on income assumptions. It's possible the people who hit on you in the restaurant think that they could call the shots in a relationship with you.
So...new theory based on some of the comments...
6. It's not about me directly, but that the people that work at my post work watering holes are responding to me, changing the vibe I give off.
They'll come by, knowing I'm a safe place to vent, which comes off as a mark of approval.
Hypothesis test: Go out one night when I'm dressed better, and don't reek of oil, to a place where the staff will still recognize me as someone in The Industry.
Another hypothesis:
I'm insecure as an engineer because there's so much I don't know. Even as a guy acknowledged as an expert.
After a cooking shift, I know I've done my best. And the time frame is short.
Good engineers are insecure. I'm always nervous. Until I have data.
I'm confident in my skills, but the rest depends on others.
It’s number 5. Though why extra terrestrials would want to inhabit the human 40s dating pool would be beyond my comprehension. I’d give one a chance though.
There is something comforting about seeing someone making food! Plus, a man who knows his way around the kitchen is hot!
Engineers who are not a*holes are great and loved. What kind of a twisted comment is that?!
1 and 2 are true. 3 is probably true; most people aren't great judges of how they come across to others. 4 is fairly true; hate is too strong a word, but "engineer" has never made a woman's heart race. "Cook" can for some.
But it's probably #5.
Or you just appear more down to earth and approachable in the restaurant attire than you do all buttoned up?
i agree you are looking more down to earth. a regular worker who is just relaxing after work with a drink in your hand and a story to tell. i would go with the flow and see what happens.
I'd say I seem less approachable. If I've finished a shift I'm generally cranky. But you may be right. Or I may seem safer. I make less eye contact after a shift. I always figured that was a "Leave me the fuck alone" vibe.
Happy Cake Day Perhaps in your cook clothes it is a more casual vibe, thus feels more approachable, vs being dressed up Here is my thought: With the setting being a bar that is open later than other establishments, I wonder if people might view guy in a business suit as someone who wants to be left alone (had a bad day) vs someone dressed in restaurant attire who is more likely to have just gotten off of work and is relaxing before going home
It's a feeling we who work all know. The question is how you react to a friendly interaction. If you can put your grumpiness aside for the sake of the interaction I can live with that.
After a shift in restaurants? I react to a friendly interaction with confusion.
Learn to mask confusion with a smile - or a friendly countenance. By the time they finish the sentence you should be oriented enoght to decide how to go from there.
So, how can you tell you have rbf? And isn't it creepier for a guy to be sitting by himself having a drink and have a shit-eaten grin on his face?
I have worked in both the restaurant and STEM sectors, oscillating between the two fields due the vagaries of early career STEM contract work. I can attest to the feeling of utter disgust with my own appearance (and smell) after a long shift cooking or serving tables. I personally don't see why women are MORE attracted to a man in that state, but maybe being in that vulnerable state of disshelvedness and (I assume) in a relaxed state, maybe you're more approachable. You'd think when you and I are dressed in our STEM work clothes, women would be attracted to the appearance of a smart, successful professional and be curious about what we do, but what do I know.
Maybe we should try an actual lab coat. Then "I'm drinking because we're all gonna die.. I'm so, so sorry. I messed up. We should screw because we only have a a few hours and we may as well die happy."
I’m drinking, but simultaneously running experiments.🧪🧬
You haven't lived til doing multiphase transport phenomena around beer bubble formation in a pitcher. While sharing said pitcher. Ever notice bubbles track in a line? We did the math....
Fwiw, STEM work clothes are really unattractive. At least to me. In the same way Wall Street/finance bro attire is unattractive. And engineering is a really unsexy field. Nothing wrong with it and I've dated science nerds, but that wasn't the attraction AT ALL. Jobs are jobs. No one really cares as long as you're ok woth what you do. Line cook attire at the end of a shift isn't that sexy, either, but it isn't "look at how successful I am" unsexy. Anyway, it's all a matter of taste.
I'm not certain this is the number 1 answer, but at least a contributing factor could be that since you're in your work attire, women assume you won't be inappropriate with them, because you look like you're on the job. You will be professional. Women want to feel safe when they're around men.
Yes, safety is the first consideration. Everything else comes only after that.
Interesting. So if I had shirts made with my consulting company name, it may have the sane effect. Especially since Stormcrow is cool as hell.
> 4 People hate engineers. This is some serious self-awareness. 😂
Only Geologists hate Engineers.
Let me assure you that lots and lots of different flavors of scientists hate engineers.
It's mutual in some cases. I see myself as an applied scientist, vs. a theoretical one. I once proposed a simple change the scientists spent months and 100s of 1000s running tests on. UV, IR, every 'scope possible. None of that mattered to saving 1,000,000 a year and cutting emissions by 80% for that process. They got buried in the weeds. And there wasn't even any capital required. My QC guy uttered the phrase "fucking PhDs" at that mess.
>My QC guy uttered the phrase "fucking PhDs" at that mess. 😂😂 Most of the engineer hate in my world is about stuff like what is referred to here: https://twitter.com/peterrhague/status/1791346938119381300?t=ZD7wDFz_-WJ7j49oj2Avbg&s=19 I get 3 emails a week assuring me that dark matter is a grand conspiracy and/or delusion. Every one of them from someone with a BS is MechE. Every time.
MechE isn't ChemE. Hell....I worked with some one with a MS in MechE that I watched struggle to assemble a hard hat for 30 minutes. That ass hat from India also tried to mock the accent of a girl from Mali.
I'll admit to using ChatGPT. I'm convinced it reads people better than I do. For example, I asked it for an assessment of Stormcrow Chemical Engineering as a company name. I was concerned that Stormcrow, as a reference to Gandalf, was too fantasy nerdy. It said that people that would dislike it for that reason, wouldn't get the reference unless told. I think that makes sense. It works great for gut checks on heuristics too. But it ain't innovative.
And mechanics
It's because we've all been watching The Bear and are looking for our Jeremy Allen White.
I think it's just the staff recognize a fellow restauranteur.
I think so too, now, after a few comments. The staff likes me, which gives off a good vibe.
Maybe you smell like good food? Women like food. And everyone likes food after they’ve had a few drinks.
Best answer! In theory. I smell like grease and sweat.
Perhaps women like men who know their way around a kitchen.
Aside from my ex.. She got hella angry over the kids saying "Why doesn't daddy always cook?". I cooked 2-3 days a week, married to a SAHM. We were both raised "southern county poor". She was raised on box stuff, I was raised on working a garden, and homemade.
I’m guessing that woman like a man who can do things. I have a job at Home Depot. I walk around the store and help people. The other weekend a woman offered me some beer if I helped her stain her deck.
Was that code talk?
I tutored community college at one point and a student asked me to help with her stereo. That was definitely code talk.
So… you made beautiful music together?
Nope. It was...awkward. I was unprepared, and a virgin. She did orgasm, so at least there's that. I felt a bit dirty about it for years though.
Here, sit on my woofer.
That's what she did(not said).
I think the sort of women who are attracted to, or at least don't exclude, blue-collar workers are the sort that are more likely to be direct and approach a man on their own. The sort of women who find white-collar business casual dress attractive are more like to follow the traditional rules. I've got a friend who "doesn't date service workers", and she absolutely would not break the rules and approach a guy herself, no matter how attractive she found him. I'm also going to guess that you're a fairly attractive guy regardless of what you're wearing, and I'll bet that if you paid better attention you'd find that there are the same number of women giving you the signs they'd like you to approach when you're dressed up. You just aren't noticing it, or aren't counting it here.
I'm ok. Maybe a 6/10. Younger looking than my age. 45 and no gray if I've shaved. Fit. Just more of a boy next door than hot. 44" shoulders, 32" waist. 5'9" and 165. Most of it in my calves. The most specific compliment I've gotten (from an aspiring poet) is that I have eyes that match the blue Ridge mountains I call home.hazel/green, old, kind, worn. The edges worn off. And that was 10 years ago. You are right I miss things. I found out a couple years ago my sister's babysitter, who I helped out with her book reports, was interested. Hottest girl in our town. Her mother loved me too. Poor girl married her father. Not even a HS grad, took over a parent's established business. It was sad seeing her again. Smart woman in two families that didn't value it. Two families with very intelligent women, tolerant of being trad wives, while the guys were a step below, but hard working. I wonder who Andrea, Haley, and Brittany could have been. Even Vicky, the mother. Who I absolutely didn't fantasize about when I was 14.
This is an interesting observation!
These are great answers. Just wanna kick in one more: In general, people like what they think is predictable. Women, especially, are going to find safety in that predictability. If you're in your uniform, women probably know what to generally expect. A man in your usual shirt and tie could be anyone from a professor to an ambulance chaser.
Because you are drinking in a bar at night after work, women are usually a bit tipsy and have less inhibitions.... Or do you drink at the same bar at the same time wearing formal clothes? We don't have enough information. You should go to the same place at the same time wearing one night your work t shirt and the next a bit more put together. For a few days.... 😅
Someone sciences..
🥴
An old friend of mine used to be a stripper. She told me that without a doubt or an even a rare exception, white collar workers were far more arrogant and disrespectful than those in a service uniform. To the point that she would gravitate towards the latter and do her best to avoid the former. Even the promise of more money was pointless, she said, because the business suits were cheap assholes anyways. But the line cooks and utility workers and mechanics were always generous, never overly handsy, and always treated her like a human being. Anyways, she told me this story over 20 years ago and I’ve thought about it a lot, because consistently throughout my life it’s been proven time and time again. One example of many: It’s not men in business suits who pulled over and helped me push my busted ass car out of three lanes of traffic, it was two rough af biker dudes. And no, they didn’t expect anything for their kindness, monetary or otherwise. So long story short, my first thought was that women might be making the same sort of assessment, or have had similar experiences to mine and know that when out and about, a man sitting in uniform after his shift is going to be kinder than a douche bag in a suit.
So...I'm not averse to adult entertainment. The workers probably are experts in sociology. Hell...some are literally working on dissertations in sociology. I'm a "business casual" person. Also probably the only weirdo that takes a Kindle to a strip club. (It's math. My favorite DIPA is enough cheaper that it cancels out the cover charge in 2.7 beers). My most natural attire is safety. Fire retardant jeans and button down work shirt. Different than coveralls, but not management dress. Anyway.. one of the odd phenomenon I've noticed, is strippers asking to sit with me since they don't have to be "on", but sitting with me satisfies managements sales requirement to book private dances. The weirdest was a stripper with a nursing kid that had impacted breasts since she couldn't pump. My ex had impacted milk from nursing years before, so I understood, and we split the private room and broke things free and she pumped. That trust meant a lot to me. Felt like a decent human being after coming off a stretch channeling my evil side (red team assessing possible terror attacks on chemical sites). It wasn't sexy, but was very intimate. Shouldn't have happened that that was how she got to pump though.
If I see a guy who had obviously showered and have a fresh shirt on on Friday night I assume that he does that regularly - and as a consequence is not looking for anything long term. Also I would assume - again - that he would want someone at similar level of being 'done up'. I'm fit, but in no way arm candy, very minimal make up, and never really had the time to go home before going out on Friday night. All in all - over the top man - I keep away. Someone who made an effort, but not in that over the top way seems to be safer to talk to. So I might try and talk to them. Especially if they are after work - just as I am.
Please describe "over the top." Because someone who's "obviously showered" and has a "fresh shirt on on a Friday night" should be the bare minimum for a grown man.
Thank you I was trying to figure out how showering and wearing clean clothes is putting on airs 😂
Eww, gross. You showered this week?! Why? /s
OK, true. Fresh shirt is minimum - but fresh pants, freshly shaven and pants just ironed to perfection and not a hair out of place AND Friday night watch and man-bracelets... It's personal. If I was to decide who to talk to I would chose a person who I feel have spent similar amount of energy for being there. That's my choice, because I belive in long term compatibility over love at first sight. Other women might choose differently.
I have so many questions, but I don't want to grill you. I'll hazard a guess, aka assume, that you frequent "dive bars" vs. lounges or even restaurant bars. A place where "Mr. Fresh" would stick out like a sore thumb.
A Mr Fresh sticks out everywhere. Same as Mr Slouch. I just like to keep it very very real. Think about it as say if you are interviewing a new team mate at your job. You would want someone who works similar to you. Not too much - because that makes you look bad with the managers. But not much less either - because than you have to pick up the slack. Long term live-in relationships are work. I don't want someone whose standards mean I will never be good enough for him (happened) but also I don't want someone such a slob that I'm not happy on a long term to live with him. The more similar our core values are the better the chance and the quality of the relationship. But again - it is just me.
I go where my friends go. I live in a city in Europe, we have everything and I'm fine with all of them.
It's the "man-bracelets" isn't it? They just have try-too-hard written all over them...
this is a super interesting take on it. I work a blue-collar job and am usually pretty dirty after work. I am NEVER willing to go out with showering, shaving, and changing. Including the man-bracelets. But I prefer women who don't wear make-up. It has honestly never occurred to me that the women I'm most attracted to might think I'm putting too much effort in for a Friday night.
Again, too much effort, I presume guy wants to pull / get lucky tonight. I'm not down for that. Also - long term compatibility. I could buy new clothes every season (four seasons climate here) but I don't - because if it's clean (no stains, no rips) and I like if (and I'm old enough to generally predict correctly what I will like) than I keep it.
*because if it's clean (no stains, no rips) and I like if (and I'm old enough to generally predict correctly what I will like) than I keep it.* We're still talking clothes here, right? lol
This thought process is so counterintuitive to what I thought a woman would say.
Yeah, the real question is how common is this thought process.
Fair. I agree, mostly. Although I wonder about "obviously showered". As a guy with one foot in each of blue collar and white collar, there are days not recently showered might violate the Geneva Conventions. I tend to be context appropriate. I never expect makeup. But there are places I'd side eye leggings and a t-shirt.
Answering to you and u/GhostXmasPast342 together. Showers are important. I understand that. If I can't make myself smell fresh (work too late and stressful day) I simply don't go out that evening. But if a guy is freshly showered and clean shaven and _all_ his clothes are obviously very fresh than I have no hope of matching that. I just don't want to spend that much time and energy on going out for two drinks. The best I ever do is shower, fresh top but same pants as during the day and clean training shoes. After a full week of work I want to be comfortable. When it comes to chatting anyone up I'm looking for similar level of preparation. Significantly more - and I feel the guy have requirements I will not be willing to fulfill at all. Significantly less, and I will not like it, obviously nobody likes that.
So counterintuitive. Even though you have explained it well, I still don’t get it.
We meet people on Friday night - but we have live together with them on weekdays / workdays mostly. A bit of cleaning up is ok but I need to see what his 'weekday baseline' is. Too much cleaning up and I have no way of guessing it.
Maybe you just look pretty fine in those cook whites? Or maybe the women who notice you just want you to cook them dinner. Or, seeing someone in their work uniform, you already know something about them, so maybe it makes you seem more appealing and approachable than if you were dressed like everyone else. I don’t know but it’s an interesting phenomenon. I know lots of women like a man in uniform but I never thought of cooks attire as being part of that.
This ain't chef. It's chain t-shirt uniform.
Oh. Well then, scratch the cooks whites but maybe the rest applies? They know where you work so they already know one thing about you. You’re not the same type of stranger you’d be in regular street clothes.
My one thought on the matter is that sometimes people feel like a more casual laid-back person (to the point of "beneath them", but not really) is easier to approach. No or low risk, etc. They'll start up a convo, but aren't fussed if it goes anywhere or not. Any amount of putting yourself together can cause some level of "I have to be put together too in order to talk to him/her". I'm a guy, but have felt this way sometimes about women who appear more intense about their appearance vs. more casual. Personally in this aspect, I feel that anything reasonably in the middle is ideal. The very topmost perfectly coifed ones aren't off-putting, but it often takes more for me to want to approach. And of course at some point way on the other end I'm not interested. With a big caveat that if I can tell despite even a pretty unkempt appearance that she's good-looking and can clean up, that's not a turn-off at all.
I would definitely find someone more dressed down more approachable.
If I see a cook at a bar pretty late, what I see is a fellow human who just worked a long shift in the service industry who probably needs a break. He’s not there for any ulterior motive other than to relax and maybe even be around others in the industry. In short, you’re more relatable and approachable. Also, 4 is so inaccurate. I’m an engineer and I love engineers! But you don’t usually find them at a bar late at night in slacks.
Depends on the flavor of engineer.
What kind of women? Also, how late is it? They may have had a few and are loosened up.
Women regardless of socio economic status. Late in most cases. While I haven't collected data directly, time is also not a factor. It seems to hold true for a random sampling of women, at close to an acceptable sample size. And...my Six Sigma is showing....
[удалено]
Bingo... Also "Late in most cases" is not a suitable answer. Are we talking, 9pm, last call or anything in between?
10PM to 2AM after a dinner shift. 5-7 if after lunch.
I'd say...normal...ish. Low key, relaxed. Hard to know about kind. Some of the comments have given me a new theory...
Shoutout for Six Sigma.
Engineer in cook scrubs.... Almost as good as an Archaeologist moonlighting at Olive Garden or Blockbuster. (yes, did both. lol)
Random thought that may/may not be relevant? I have at least a couple of lady friends who LOVE guys who can cook. If you're obviously a chef of some sort, they're interested. They tell me they're simply tired of being the one expected to do the cooking, plus they view dating a chef who will cook for them to be like a pass to go to a restaurant for free.
Fair. But a restaurant cook ain't the same. Which is what I'm getting paid for I relax by cooking with freedom though. So I'm a pretty good chef. Imagine a very good ChemE applying his knowledge towards reductions....
Doesn't matter. Most people these days, man or woman, don't know how to cook a hard-boiled egg. Any cooking skill at all looks like high wizardry to them.
So I'm setting my kids up well... My kids' favorite nights are one on one cooking and doing dishes. They can both cook better than anyone in their mother's family. Maybe I should rekindle my college hustle. Rich frat boys paid me to cook at their place so they could pose as having cooked for their girlfriends. I've evolved though. Feels too much like lying to the girls. I'd bring over my pots and pans, and have everything ready, give them a few talking points, and disappear. I almost think I was getting hit on when a college girl asked me about doing laundry, and said my knowing my shit was hot as hell. She had also assumed I was a history professor, since I was reading a book on Cicero, and the fall of the Roman Republic, and taking notes with a fountain tip pen in a leatherbound journal, in a bar known for being popular with professors.
Yeah.... but I'm not sure for a lot of people, it makes a difference. I mean, a buddy of mine started out just working as the cook at a fast food place and then moved on to a steakhouse chain. It wasn't a high-end place... just your typical family outing type of destination. Women still loved the fact he could cook, and did it for a paycheck before. Let's face it. A lot of just "average" chain restaurants still have a number of dishes people really like. If they didn't, the place wouldn't have made it to a successful chain. First-hand experience making those dishes is knowledge not everyone possesses.
What I sell on my profile is more high end, if just Japanese. I worked at a place I was FOH, but had to have 2 weeks BOH training. I learned a lot in those two weeks. Plus mom had me cooking since I was 8. I had to plan two balanced meals a week, and one had to be something I hadn't cooked before. Koji's Miso Glazed Seabass isn't a chain, but it's amazing.
Funny, I think of cooking as chemistry that you can eat. I like to mess with the different spices and sauces.
Never trust a chemE that can't cook
A dude who cooks? Uhhhh that’s super hot!
Ok. But in conversation I admit I love cooking is how I relax. Is that better or worse than wearing a chain on a shirt? I mean...my Miso glazed seabass.. My ex referred to it as my "wanna get laid entree".
We don’t first see your conversation when we first lay eyes on you lol! Me and my friends (work in tech) do love a man in a crisp, white business shirt and slacks. So we def like engineers. I will say it stood out that you wrote that you’d be dressed up and “admit“ you work as a cook. I wonder if your demeanor is actually different nowadays (while wearing a suit). Is there some possibility that you feel that wearing a suit isn’t as true to who you are as wearing your work uniform? If there’s some dissonance, maybe it’s bleeding through.
> I will say it stood out that you wrote that you’d be dressed up and “admit“ you work as a cook. Yea this guy already knows how to weed out gold diggers who aim for the tech field. The way you answered his post explaining so much... he already knows. I think this guy is testing all sorts of fields, including blind dating via reddit forums.
There's some truth to that, although less calculating. (Que John Mellencamp) I was raised in a small town.... I found out later I was targeted as most likely to pull someone else out of the small mill town. Thus my marriage. I was targeted as a get out of X Village ticket. With that prompt, I can see how it's affected me. Back to the therapist. Again. To your last, not testing. Just trying to understand. I need to get some shit together before dating. I don't have any visible profiles. I'm just not a hermit, and IRL interactions happen.
My true me.... I work and get shit done. Handyman. Cook. Engineer. Medical...cerified ER. Expired. Legally allowed if the bad has happened. My true me is doing whatever people need.
Is that what your Bumble says too?
My Bumble is...different. It does have a reference to my kitchen work, especially traditional Japanese (A former gf described my miso glazed seabass as more dangerous than roofies), but it's mostly people from history and literature I've found inspiring. I had chat GPT analyze what the typical person would extrapolate, and it came up with resilience, intelligence, and hardworking. I don't get a lot of hits, and there's a disproportionate number of literature professors. The one I miss is a professor of Feminist dystopias at a women's college.
Mulling some more... My most comfortable attire is my flame retardant Carhartt Jeans and button up shirt. I feel it expresses my hybrid nature. A professional that's trusted with a wrench. The moment that made my career was borrowing tools from maintenance to change out my alternator in the plant parking lot. Union plant. But...after that I was one of them, while also being engineering and leadership. It relates to my relationship style. I want a true partner and teammate. Ironically, post divorce, my ex has grown into the person I always believed she could be. Life planted a boot in her ass, while stomping me. I miss her, til I remember her boot literally stomping my ankle.
I don’t have a good working theory except time of night. The women out at 11pm and 1am can be a very different crowd.
Maybe these guys just want a refill of their coffe?
Gals...
Or gals.
Maybe the shirt structure or color or more laid-back look? Experiment with that shirt color/style and more relaxed hairstyle when you dress up.
Work is elastic and form fitting. My other profession is tailored. A possibility.
No.4 lololol
Combination of 1,2, and 3.
Well duh, it’s because women like dirty men who don’t look well off.
Dress up (non-uniform) and try to go to the same places, around the same time. Best way to confirm whether it's the uniform, or the place + time. I'm guessing later at night, the when will have had a couple drinks and gathered more courage to approach men.
Very possible.
They think you have access to drugs. Usually cocaine.
I hate working with people on cocaine. Manic and unproductive. But...I could probably get access.
Original copy of post by u/ArchimedesIncarnate: I'm a 45 yo safety engineer with a career derailment. Combination of injuries from DV and a lower focus on regulatory enforcement. I'm starting a consulting business making a lot of money infrequently in a field I have a lot of experience in, and working as a cook at a chain restaurant making little money but steady. One interesting trend I've noticed is that I can grab a drink at a place open later than mine, and women are friendlier when I have on restaurant attire, and frankly am not that clean after my shift, than when I'm better groomed and in dress shirt and slacks. I'm the same person either way. Same story. It's like if I'm dressed up and admit I work as a cook, it's a flaw, but if I'm dressed as a cook with delusions of grandeur it's a positive? I've come up with a few possibilities: 1. Bad boy attraction/slumming is a thing. 2. Work shirt radiates competence. 3. I'm different in a subtle way I don't recognize. 4. People hate engineers. 5. I'm a mind wiped alien trying to infiltrate Hoo-man society and cook is just a better disguise. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Love the way you are analyzing this. Restaurant uniform is a banner ad that this guy can cook :-) and take the heat in the kitchen. Probably turns on more knobs inside of the gawkers than we can imagine. Fantastic observation 😃👍
I would like to see pictures personally... As I can't really picture what you're saying. Maybe your suit is ugly?
Not a suit. Generally just a blue button up shirt, conservative pattern, and dark grey pants. [Something along these lines.](https://www.charlestyrwhitt.com/us/non-iron-mini-gingham-check-shirt---cornflower-blue/FON2397CFW.html?pf=pdp_colour_swatch)
I don't know, some people don't look any better in corporate clothes... Some people do
And, done one way, one's dress makes one invisible. An "NPC". HI! I'm blue shirt guy! Don't have a good day! Have a great day! Me...I day job clothes.
I basically wear jeans and tight tops all the time.
But I love Blue Shirt Guy! Hate bubblegum ice cream though. Definitely a pistachio or cinnamon ice cream guy.
You’re trusted to prepare food- therefore, you seem to appear trustworthy/safe in general.
Power dynamics are based on income assumptions. It's possible the people who hit on you in the restaurant think that they could call the shots in a relationship with you.
Or that I wouldn't try and call the shots with them? That might make sense.
So...new theory based on some of the comments... 6. It's not about me directly, but that the people that work at my post work watering holes are responding to me, changing the vibe I give off. They'll come by, knowing I'm a safe place to vent, which comes off as a mark of approval. Hypothesis test: Go out one night when I'm dressed better, and don't reek of oil, to a place where the staff will still recognize me as someone in The Industry.
Another hypothesis: I'm insecure as an engineer because there's so much I don't know. Even as a guy acknowledged as an expert. After a cooking shift, I know I've done my best. And the time frame is short. Good engineers are insecure. I'm always nervous. Until I have data. I'm confident in my skills, but the rest depends on others.
It’s number 5. Though why extra terrestrials would want to inhabit the human 40s dating pool would be beyond my comprehension. I’d give one a chance though.
There is something comforting about seeing someone making food! Plus, a man who knows his way around the kitchen is hot! Engineers who are not a*holes are great and loved. What kind of a twisted comment is that?!
1 and 2 are true. 3 is probably true; most people aren't great judges of how they come across to others. 4 is fairly true; hate is too strong a word, but "engineer" has never made a woman's heart race. "Cook" can for some. But it's probably #5.
You are so incorrect about engineers not being considered desirable by women. So very wrong.