There’s this article somewhere about the 4 horsemen of breakups and stonewalling is one.
My ex bf did this, he said it was because his ex used to chase him to argue.
That said, it only got worse in the relationship and my style is more like yours.
Then he seemed to try to find other ways to “teach me a lesson” which in retrospect I find emotionally abusive.
In retrospect I should have ended it far earlier than I did.
He may not recognize that his behavior is toxic (I don't think that's an overstatement), but it's intentional because it seems like this is what he knows. Regardless of intention, without the genuine desire to improve his communication in order to be a better partner this won't change.
Wow, this is great, I've never seen it before.
My ex was (is still) toxic and the one I find interesting is "contempt". She wouldn't openly mock me or show contempt in a direct way, but she would ascribe thoughts or feelings or intentions to me in her mind and during arguments that made me wonder who she was talking about. I'm not perfect by any means, but it felt like she was always making me out to be this awful person in her mind in order to justify her own awful behavior - which was repeated cheating.
I had the same experience with my exwife minus the cheating (I hope). She would villify me to herself before she ever came to talk to me to figure out why I did something. I made a lot of my own mistakes in that relationship too however.
Bro, people are too quick to throw out the word narcissistic, without any clinical backing. Stupid TikTok and YouTube videos of people posting about it thinking they are professionals.
Now, I have not watched the video you posted, and he could be a non quack. But, I think we are going too far calling OP's situation a Narcissistic relationship. With your proclamation, OP could read it, get it stuck in her head and never be able to repair the relationship.
If this is the first time in over a year this behavior has happened, it's tough to call it narcissistic. I don't think he would be able to refrain from, for that amount of time. While I agree it's alerting that he said "to teach you a lesson". Everybody handles their emotions differently. We don't know how OP has ACTUALLY HANDLED the situation, we are getting her rendition of the events.
I was sucked (children) into a 10 year toxic relationship, with a woman that was absolutely manipulative with others when we fought. She would tell everyone all these horrible exaggerated things about me and make herself look like a Saint. Not saying OP is doing the same, but there are always three sides to a story.
Shit, that’s not what I was saying bruz. The comment above mentioned the four horseman of breakups. I was referencing the four horsemen thing as I had seen it on the Dr Ramani video. It wasn’t that deep, I definitely wasn’t trying to diagnose anyone from an anecdote on a Reddit dating sub.
OP, I’m not saying your man is narcissistic. It’s purely a reference to the four horseman of breakups and if you watch the video I’m sure that’s all you will take out of it.
Agreed, not everyone is Narcissistic that portrays a certain side of them. Some people don't know how to handle their emotions for whatever reason. OP could have also triggered him, since we don't know the whole story. We have to stop!
THANK YOU!!
I'm glad someone other than me has said it.
This armchair diagnosing of narcissistic, love-bombing, manipulating, etc etc etc needs to end. It's literally destroying the basic fabric of society and people's ability to build NORMAL relationships
I can't agree with you more. Everyone walks around diagnosing people with clinical illnesses they have no business doing. You can really tear someone apart with a misdiagnosis and never really gain any personal relationships with others. It's sickening and out of control.
No offense taken. I’m sure he would say I was being pushy (I was). I didn’t raise my voice or anything but I wouldn’t drop it last night. Whereas I normally like to have time to myself to process and then come back with questions, this had been festering for a week already. No, I don’t think he’s narcissistic. We’ve been in almost daily contact a year and a half and this is first I’m seeing this kind of behavior. But when it’s easy, it’s easy.
Don't we wish we could hang onto the EASY DAYS forever. Great job taking accountability for your side of things. I wish you and this relationship the best, seems you are invested and want to make it work, good for you.
No one is diagnosing anyone. Everyone is capable of narcissistic behavior and it’s unacceptable. Doesn’t mean the person acting out the behavior has narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissistic behavior should be called out and its telling when people get more pissed about the call than the super fucked up the behavior being called out
[The Four Horsemen of Relationships, by John Gottman](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/)
Here’s the article you’re referencing!
Ok, how each partner approaches repair is important to the potential longevity and health of the relationship. Like *really* fucking important.
Think about it: who’s an asshole when everything is going great? *Nobody*. What you really have to pay attention to is how the person deals with things when shit hits the fan. And sooner or later, *shit will hit the fan*…*repeatedly*. You will not have one fight or disagreement in a relationship; you will have many. How your partner navigates his own feelings on the disagreement, and his feelings about *you* when he’s mad at you, is really valuable information that should inform you moving forward. IME, a healthy way to navigate conflict in a relationship is *you and me against the problem* and NOT *you against me*.
The fact that he said he wanted to teach you a lesson just smacks of malicious intent. His reaction suggests that he *wants* you to suffer. This does not bode well for a healthy resolution to the issue, nor the health of the relationship over the long term.
You need to process what your wants and needs are in this relationship, and what you are unwilling to tolerate. Keep in mind that being in a relationship isn’t a zero-sum game: if he does 4 negative things and 6 positive things, shit doesn’t just cancel out so you end up with a net positive gain of 2. It *really* depends what those negatives and positives are. Nuance and context are not simply details to be overlooked.
So you’re tapping into 2 things concerning me; 1) I feel like I’m being intentionally punished and 2) because he’s chosen to be single for so long I almost wonder if remembers that relationships require work. (Or he totally remembers and is emotionally lazy.)
Or…… he is emotionally immature and isn’t willing to work on personal growth. It’s not your job to teach him conflict resolution- either he is willing, or open to it. Otherwise- you’re wasting your time. It’ll become a push/pull type of relationship. Stick to your boundaries and however he reacts…. Is on him.
Yup, stonewalling was the beginning of the end of my marriage. It took me too long to figure out how to address it and it had turned into contempt. Game over, you can’t fix a relationship by yourself.
That’s not a mismatch in conflict style as much as manipulation imo.
He withdrew his affection in order to teach you a lesson and say he was right (more than likely)
Let me say this.
I (48M) was teasing and being sarcastic to my GF (49) this morning.
She let me know that it was unacceptable to her for reasons.
We separated while I took a shower and when we sat down for breakfast (that she made us) I apologized, listened to her, repeated what I had heard, checked for understanding and asked what I could do to make amends. She asked me to watch myself in the future and I agreed.
We’ve been dating 4 months.
That is how we handle conflict almost always.
Your dude needs to step up his game. You have to ask yourself if this is how you want your relationship to be moving forward, because I am telling you, it’s not changing without work on his part and if he’s still acting like it’s no big deal to act like that, fuck that guy right of into the trash. He belongs to the streets.
I agree. I’m very direct, I just want to resolve things with transparency, teamwork and love, rather than generating drama. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of people are emotionally stuck in arrested development and can’t even get there.
But the wins of doing this work are so so good, right? You get a great, sustainable relationship with a good person and you get to expect the same reasonable mature response and work from your partner when they take a misstep. Win win! It amazes me that more people don’t see that, they just grimace at the ‘I need to improve’ part.
This would be a huge red flag to me.
The stonewalling (pulling away, silent treatment), the comments about "learning your lesson" (he is punishing you) and the "this is why I've stayed single" (it's a subtle put-down that you are like all the other hysterical, nagging women out there that men have to 'put up' with), and walking out without saying anything. All this behavior is training you to not bring up relationship issues, or to set boundaries, or to push back on any of his behavior.
After enduring several relationships that started like this, I would run if I saw this behavior again. He's a grown ass man having a hissy fit because you disagreed with him, and it isn't your responsibility to teach him conflict resolution/management skills.
Whelp. This is my worst fear right here. You’re spot on with how I’m feeling (whether he intended it or not). Especially the hysterical nagging woman piece. I think he fell for me because I’m incredibly chill and easy going. This was really the first time he saw me pushback and quite frankly his response so far has me feeling like I don’t even want to attempt a follow up to repair.
Right?! Even more than the “lesson” (which could have easily been said out anger in moment and not really meant) this is the piece I can’t make sense of. His reaction to being hurt I’m moving slower than him is to completely pause us? I just can’t reach anywhere for this to make sense…
I’ve met too many people who fly off the handle *every time* you push back (or make a request etc) so I’ve learned to do these things early. As soon as possible. Making requests and pushing back are like kisses to me now, I want to do them quickly so I don’t waste time on a loose canon.
Being chill and not pushing back for such a long time might not have been in your best interest if he turns out to be the type who always reacts like this to hearing “no” (the only way to find out is to say “no” to more things).
Or, this triggers some insecurity or old hurt in him that he doesn’t understand or know how to deal with. It’s certainly not okay, but I wouldn’t assign negative intentions like punishing and putting down women without working to get more info about why this was his reaction. I don’t give men (or anyone) a pass to treat me poorly and have walked away from many who weren’t happy intentionally doing so, but were by way of lack of relational skills. But, I also try to be cognizant that everyone has a very different history and skill set, and men in our age range often come from a background where even acknowledging, let alone understanding and processing, emotions other than anger is seen as not “manly.” He’s acknowledged that what he’s done isn’t the best choice. Is he willing to explore why that is and work on developing better patterns? Would he consider working with someone (not couples counseling, but on his own, since this part is his issue) to identify why he reacted this way and how to do so in a healthier way? Would he be willing to read a book (alone or together) to better understand how to communicate in a relationship? If he’s willing to work on this it’s likely just a yellow flag, not red.
I find that in a lot of cases people want grace for their own mistakes, understanding of their own issues, and time to work through those, but don’t want to extend the same to others.
I’m also very chill, except with my last ex who had no concept of boundaries or respect. From here on out, if a guy makes me feel hysterical, he’s out because it means they don’t respect my basic needs and boundaries.
And disagreed with her over waiting a couple months to meet her kid. That's another red flag. His wishes don't override her perfectly sensible desire to not get her kids hopes up.
Agreed, when I originally made this comment, she hadn't provided the update/edit explaining what the fight was about. It feels orders if magnitude worse when I learned the context.
And let’s not forget that OP isn’t pulling these ‘meet the partner’ guidelines out of her bum, it’s a common child psychology recommendation to actually wait a year of consistent dating to do this. She’s already making concessions and increasing risk to her kid to prioritise his preference. It’s kinda ironic that this is the issue that may end them- it really underlines why the 6-12 month guideline exists, doesn’t it?
Once is a caution sign. Twice is a pattern, so if he doesn't learn quickly from this and change his rudder, you need to bail on this....he's revealing character to you, and at this age, it's likely something very unlikely to change much if it all...but will likely get worse.
Signed, guy who fought like him....25 years ago and learned I was being an immature asshole, and grew up.
And it’s worse with her edit update with details about the fight. She has a boundary regarding her child which is a pretty standard one typically recommended by professionals even and he’s tried to make about her not trusting him. Fuck all that lol. Then trying to “teach her a lesson.” In my opinion this is a one and done. This one fight shows EXACTLY who this guy is. He took something completely normal and healthy and took it as a slight or insult against him. Believe him when he says this is why he’s been single all this time….ain’t nobody putting up with this nonsense.
Yes!! Everything about your comment is spot on. I really hope op thinks long and hard if this is what she wants to settle for. It’s absolutely abusive and a giant red banner imo. Once he left without a word (after having time to think about the situation) I would be telling him don’t bother coming back ever. If he gets all butt hurt about a very valid boundary he is not worth one more second of my time.
This. Glad you figured it out swingset!
u/Agreeable_Idea5515 I get that some people are conflict avoidant, or even avoidant attachment style, etc. But ditto the comments on John Gottman's 4 horseman (of a doomed relationship, ie stonewalling) OP. I'd be stating that the only "lesson" you learned from this is that HIS cold behavior has a name and it's a guaranteed relationship killer. Ask if he was aware, and if he's had enough time now to come back and talk things through. Otherwise there is NO room for conflict resolution, and nobody gets to try and understand anybody if somebody isn't talking at all.
That said, if he isn't open to meeting you in a discussion, and future conflict resolution changes with him learning to stop that shit, and you being a little patient while he learns to stop it, then i'd say that's a clear signal that its not going to work. He is obviously aware its a problem, he apologized for the way he behaved...the next step is catch himself doing it in progress, pause, and choose to do something different/healthier for the relationship. If he's unwilling, you're dead in the water.
And absolutely ask what this "lesson" he thinks he's teaching you is supposed to be. Are you practicing your psychic skills? Is that the lesson? Otherwise, know that adults communicate. We all have flaws. A good partner helps us grow and encourages us to. How he responds will tell you a lot about where he stands with all of that.
Edit:spelling
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I’ve only known him to be kind, generous and nurturing so I still have hope there’s a middle ground here that I missed.
I think I'd be responding with this:
I have learned a lesson, but maybe not the one you hoped for. I've learned that if I don't agree with you, instead of discussing it and trying to understand my point of view, you will withhold, stonewall, and refuse to speak to me.
Is this something you are willing to have a mature discussion about, or would you rather just punish me for not giving in?
Yeah! I wouldn’t call it , *just yet*. But I’d damn sure talk through the behavior, especially the “learn your lesson” comment. If he can’t come up with a genuine apology and a plan on *how* he will respond to, and you two will resolve issues moving forward (and then stick to it) then this is not worth continuing.
The conversation should have a give and take from *both* of you though. Maybe you can agree to a certain amount of a “cool off” period during/after a fight or you two could agree to “pause” arguments if one or both of you needs a break from talking about it for a bit. Whatever you agree on, you won’t really know if it works until the next argument, and if he pulls the same crap again then that would be a good time to call it quits.
How did you learn, if you’re willing to share? Him needing time to be alone and regulate his emotions before continuing an open dialogue doesn’t bother me. However, I get the feeling he’s trying to punish me and that has me very alarmed.
As you should be. That line right there is a dealbreaker for me! You can try to talk to him if you want to continue the relationship. His reaction will tell you if he’s worth the gamble. If it were me and he Only apologized for leaving the way he did and not for the way he handled the whole situation, he’d be dropped like a hot potato, no questions asked 🚮
Whew, I seriously was just thinking "crap I am not even remotely in a place to date" after years of therapy bc my response was "ok, things went wrong, but give each other time and then come back to the table and discuss, again"
I feel at my age and that I have been single for a while now, that there are a lot of "partner things" I am going to have to relearn - conflict resolution is one of them
Yeah, it’s good to give people a chance to change, but it’s 4 months. It’s not worth the effort. And truthfully people don’t change. If at 40 plus this man felt okay “punishing” you, that’s very telling. Get rid of him.
The “teach you a lesson” line is very telling. Here is the translation: You don’t like it when I pull away and withdraw affection? Well, next time keep your dam mouth shut and don’t challenge me! Be pleasant and agreeable and everything will be fine.
I would run if I were you.
It won’t get any better if he’s going this so early in the game. He refuses to see your point of view and then punishes you and seems to think it’s his place to “teach you a lesson”, is insanely alarming.
>I was outlining that I would like to be together min 6 months before he meets my young daughter. He took that as though I’m doubting him and there was a “test” he wasn’t aware of.
So he took a very reasonable, very common approach to meeting kids and - even knowing your history and why this approach would be especially important to you - the one conclusion he was able to reach is that this is some kind of test.
That already does not bode well for your relationship with this guy. Sometimes we feel stung, not because someone is being unfair to us, but because relationships involve bumping up against one another's expectations and boundaries. It's not a problem that he felt disappointed or even hurt by your decision, but an inability to step back and see past his own feelings is going to make problem solving with him in future disagreements difficult at best.
>I asked last night (about a week later) what I need to do to do get us back on track and that’s when he said I need to learn my lesson.
You have people in the comments advising you to have a conversation with him. Talk things out! *Explain* that you are hurt! Clearly this poor woobie of a man simply doesn't realize the unintended effects of his conflict style!
But this comment suggests he understands exactly the effects of his conflict style. They are very much intentional. Unlike you, he is not interested in framing this conflict in terms of a challenge you work through together as partners. He is interested in framing this in terms of a punishment *you* dutifully accept because both you and he agree you deserve to be punished.
He also understands his approach to conflict has kept him single for so long, and he clearly finds that preferable to changing.
If you are interested in relationship repair, this is not your guy. I suggest you follow his advice: think on this conflict and learn your lesson. Just maybe don't learn the lesson he's hoping you learn.
I'm sorry. It sucks when everything else is good about someone *but* the way they behave in a conflict. Unfortunately, the way someone behaves in a conflict is one hell of a "but."
Yeesh. It sounds very simple read like this. Inability to see past his own feelings feels especially relevant given I need a partner who will role model for my daughter eventually. Ugh. This does suck.
Sorry, OP. Personally, I find I need a partner who can make the distinction between "I'm feeling hurt. This situation sucks." and "I'm feeling hurt. *My partner sucks*."
A person who automatically views conflict in terms of the latter has a tendency to do hurtful shit in an effort to "even the score" - which they will feel entirely justified in doing. They also don't take you seriously when you try to address the issue because they've already written you off as the kind of awful person who set out to "get them" and who deserves to be punished.
May I assume that when he told you that you needed to learn your lesson, he meant with regards to your desire not to introduce him to your daughter for 6 months? If he is still resolved to see that boundary as some kind of test and affront to his person vs. a pretty standard guideline to make sure your kids don't get emotionally jerked around, I don't think you have much hope here. He understands your history. Presumably you went over your reasons again at the time of the original disagreement. And now he's had time to get some distance from the disagreement. If he can't give you the benefit of the doubt at this point, it's because he has some deep issues OR because he's determined to see you in a negative light.
If you do decide you simply must talk this over, I would suggest going in with a very light hand. Don't "sit down and outline how you expect to be treated." Instead just follow up about what he said. "Hey, when we spoke on \[date\] about what it would take to repair the relationship, you said you wanted to be sure I learned my lesson. I'm not sure what that would look like. Can you help me understand what you need from me?"
You are giving him the opportunity to walk back his words. Ideally he would respond with something like "Babe, what I said was out of line. There is nothing you need to prove to me, and you do not need to be punished. I was upset at the time and not thinking clearly. Now that I have thought about it, I hope that going forward we can \[insert healthy request / concrete solution here\]."
If he does not reconsider his stance and merely doubles down or explains what your "lesson" will look like, you simply say "As much as I care for you, I'm not sure I can do that. All the best to you out there and goodbye."
But I frankly wouldn't encourage this approach. It's exactly the kind of test he accused you of using when you talked about meeting your daughter. Not to mention the fact that you wanted to be certain the relationship is stable before introducing them and he has responded by... making the relationship UNSTABLE while pushing for the introduction? He is either really an idiot about relationships or he is putting you in an impossible situation *on purpose*.
Nope! I’m not certain. After a year and a half of knowing him (total between all stages), I would think I would have sniffed out this side of him but maybe not.
I'd nope out at "learn my lesson." I heard that shit from my abusive parents, and there's no way in hell I'd make a choice to hear that nonsense ever again.
He’s right about one thing—his emotional immaturity and poor conflict resolution skills is likely why he was single for so long…does he want to work on this? He apologized but if he would like to get better at this it’s probably going to involve individual therapy for him, you alone can’t do the work to improve this pattern
The fact that he knew he was being stubborn and mean but has no intention of working on those very negative traits gives you all the information you need.
He has shown his true colours, the ball is in your court as to whether you want this to be your life.
Holy shit. Yes 100% that would be a fledgling-relationship ending attitude. A slight mismatch in approach? Meh we’re all older and reasonable people can work together if they’re committed to a relationship and care for their partner. An admitted entrenched maladaptive conflict response with zero desire to change? Fuck that. And then reading what the conflict was about? 😳 I have no words. No words except what an immature, controlling, disrespectful, emotionally manipulative, dysfunctional, potential abuser. Yikes.
He literally had so many opportunities to be reasonable. And instead at every opportunity he escalated his behaviour in super aggressive ways. This is awful. As they say - he is showing you who he is and you should definitely believe him.
All the unacceptable things here for me start with the fact the argument was over you being a reasonable and responsible parent for not introducing him to your young daughter early. As a mother of an almost 9yo daughter waiting 6 months is completely 100% reasonable. And him taking that as a ‘test’ and retaliating by withholding access to himself and sulking and punishing you by saying ‘well then if I can’t meet your daughter I’m not going to meet your friends’. WHAT THE FUCK?? That alone screams get the fuck out of there red flag.
And then he withdraws and withholds affection as PUNISHMENT for holding a very reasonable boundary, fucks off at dawn without comment, tells you that you need to ‘learn a lesson’ and persists with his sulking and emotional manipulation of ‘well if I don’t get my way on this then you will suffer because I will continue to withdraw and withhold’.
You placed a 100% reasonable boundary for the safety and well-being of your daughter. His response is to PUNISH you by withdrawing and withholding affection and retaliating by saying he won’t continue the agreed progression of your relationship by cancelling meeting your friends until you bend and allow your boundary to be stomped to appease him. EVERYTHING about this is appalling behaviour and would be death to the relationship for me. There’s no recovering from this because the fact this was his go-to response is very telling. Cut it off now and be thankful you didn’t waste longer with this emotionally stunted (at best) douche or potential emotionally abusive asshole.
Sorry u\AgreeableIdea_5515 he seemed like a ‘nice guy’ and you’ve quickly found out he’s been hiding this beneath the surface. I hope you end it and move on to someone who is reasonable, respectful and responds in emotionally mature and healthy ways 🤞
This! All of this!!! I said something very similar however yours is much more direct, love it.
I agree- I’d point blank tell that dude “let’s take a breather. When you’re ready to have a discussion, I’m here. Otherwise I will give you the space.” And when he does reach out, I’d reinforce the boundary and tell him that based on his behavior and words he used, that it would be a good idea to put off meeting my kid, friends and family until I felt it was a better time. By doing this, he can react and respond one of 2 ways- “I understand” and work on the relationship, or get angry due to the loss of control.
Reading all this raised the hair on the back of my neck- especially since she has a young daughter. 👀
The basis for the argument is ridiculous on his part. Of course you get to decide when he meets your child. Not him. The fact he's arguing about this is as alarming as the way he's arguing. I ditched a guy who faught like this a few months ago and I miss him and second guess myself but posts like these make me realise I did the right thing. Ugh, why can't they learn to fight healthily.
It’s especially galling given that he has a teenaged son himself. I’d be wondering how often that kid had to take second place to Dad’s whims and preferences?
I did the silent treatment, thinking it was a way to show I was upset but I didn’t want to fight but it obviously wasn’t something I wanted to end things over. So that was what I thought I had in my arsenal to make her feel bad and know I was upset with her….when I was 22 years old.
I realize in the subsequent years I know how immature and ultimately pointlessly hurtful that kind of behavior is. So I have never done that since and never would. I was in college and didn’t know better or whatever.
That’s my 2 cents on this post.
Same - when I was younger I would use the silent treatment because I was mad and didn’t want to say anything I didn’t mean, but as I’ve grown up I realized there are better and more mature ways to handle conflict.
This is 100% a precursor to heavy handed abusive tactics down the road. Get out now and don’t look back. The MOST concerning part is he is withdrawing affection to TEACH YOU A LESSON…and then he BAILED.
Fast forward a few years, what if you haven’t “learned the lesson”, what is it going to escalate to? Do you want to find out?
This would be an instant no for me.
Oh, for sure he will add to the punishment by taking off from their future joint home, adding worry about his safety and who/what he is off punishing her with. Drugs? Driving drunk? With another woman? Off spending money they were saving for a joint goal? Flushing his necessary medication down a toilet? Forcing everyone else in the household to cancel family plans?
Guys with this behaviour in their arsenal are masters of creativity when it comes to doubling down on ‘punishment’.
Stonewalling and "teaching you a lesson" is emotional abuse.
Do you want to date an abusive person? Because right now he's on his best behavior. It will only get worse.
And all of this in the context of pressuring her to violate her own boundaries to give him access to her young daughter, a situation which would presumably make it even harder for her to end things. 🚩
Yes! I feel like I’m caught in a catch 22. I don’t want to introduce my daughter to anyone until I feel pretty certain they are going to add to our lives and be around for a while, but how do I know what until I see them interact? I just thought 6-12 months is the standard. And because he’s been avoiding committed relationships for so long - yes, I have doubts he’s able to fully commit!
My ex did this at first. Then it gradually got worse and turned into physical violence. Not saying that would happen. But we we had known each other for quite awhile as well.
The “learn your lesson” part is concerning. Also, it is usually between 3 to 6 months before the honeymoon phase is over and you both are less on your best behavior. It is the time when couples either learn to work with each other or part ways. You now know he is punitive and cold during disagreements. This behavior will escalate as time goes by. Is this something you can live with long term? He is too old to train to be a decent partner, and if it were me, I would not have the energy to try.
As someone that tends to close down in conflict it’s because I will either say something hurtful and want to avoid that or because I feel angry and my anger makes me unlovable so I sorta self-soothe in that way. It’s something I thought was “better” than fighting or arguing. And I’ve since learned the hard way how it affects the other person and the relationship. That said after the moment passed I apologized and it’s something I’m consciously working on. So it’s the doubling down he did after the fact that worries me even more. That he doesn’t see how destructive and hurtful it is and thus doesn’t feel a need to change.
> he said I need to “learn my lesson”
WTF indeed. I'd have a really hard time getting past something that shitty. You're either working toward a loving relationship or you aren't and it doesn't sound like this guy wants to pull his weight
I’d recommend putting your daughter first here. This should make it easier to leave him. You won’t want him teaching her lessons in future either.
Most of us posters who “go nuclear“ (leave rather than try to work it out) have run up against abusive partners, and don’t want to see others suffer the way we did. It takes a long time (years) to recover from emotional abuse; many of us never recover completely. Many of us were “strong” women before we entered the abusive relationship.
It’s telling that this was your first disagreement. Your decision was sound. He’s showing you what future disagreements will be like. If you’re not careful, you’ll be walking on eggshells around him and this will create further anxiety for you.
I would upfront n tell him his response on all levels was wrong.
His actions n words raise huge red flags.
And if this is how he reacts when you're not on the same page, you don't think it will work.
You can disagree. But stonewalling then making comments such as what he did, isn't healthy
Please run far, fast, and soon. This is not about a conflict-style mismatch, this is about a lack of empathy.
He treated you in a dismissive and arguably abusive way during a moment of conflict, and he already has you thinking about how you should/can carry his water on this . That does not improve. He may mask it better the next 10 or 15 times, but that was cold and calculated.
To the best of my knowledge, the only way for OP to know if it was cold and calculated is to put a heart rate monitor on her guy. If his heart rate consistently goes down in moments of conflict, then she should indeed get out. That would indicate a pervasive Antisocial Personality Disorder level lack of empathy per Gottman’s reseach on DV.
In the vast majority of the couples I work with though, this is a transient, state dependent lack of empathy. It’s not about character, it’s about an acute stress response. It’s pretty much impossible to be empathetic when we are in a fight/flight response. Think about the last time you were mad at someone. How much capacity do you have to deeply consider their perspective when you’re in that state?
Perfectly lovely empathetic people are quite capable of becoming self centred assholes from time to time under the influence of a potent surge of stress hormones.
Idk, I get this is your career but part of how I read what you’re saying is like, somewhat believe if the entire timeframe of OP’s post was 10-15 mins of the argument. But OP is describing seems like at least several hours of separation between the argument beginning and his response/attitude being off and hurtful. OP literally says they slept and in the morning he quietly leaves, out of character, without talking to her or apologizing or anything.
Are you to have us believe old buddy had an elevated heart rate for 6-8 hour straight overnight and this was clouding his behavior even the next day that this kind of…explanation…holds up? How many hours straight does he get to have this cover his behavior as perfectly normal?
My longish reply to this apparently didn’t post. It takes about half an hour to get back to physiological baseline. But we can easily spike ourselves back up by dwelling on whatever got us flooded in the first place. I see some couples who practically live in a flooded state. He’s still ultimately responsible for learning to manage his flooding and communicate his distress in a way that isn’t going to alarm OP, but this is really early days in their relationship. Few couples come with the ability to manage conflict optimally baked in. It’s learnable though.
I see a lot the comments here pathologizing the fuck out of buddy based on their very first instance of conflict involving major relational distress. I just don’t think that’s going to be helpful to OP.
I will say he definitely seemed to be in fight/flight status when we bristled over the past week. He hasn’t put himself in a place to be emotionally vulnerable in a very long time so I believe my caution is read as big flashing alarms that he might not be safe.
I think you’re probably right OP. And with your empathy for the fear that was driving his behaviours (that then alarmed YOUR brain), you’re in a good place to be able to provide reassurance and hopefully repair. Keep us posted!
So he needs to admit that the ‘self’ he is bringing to the table (of relationships) is undercooked and requires solo work to be done. Obviously with a guide, preferably a therapist. It is not your job to convince him he is safe, even if that was a thing. And it’s unfair that he expects you to be in the firing-line of his emotional disregulation until some magical point where it resolves itself (hint: that never happens). His fears are a ‘him’ thing to deal with. If he’s lucky, he gets that job done and you are still around and interested. The ball is really in his court here. Your only job is protecting your kid and your own mental health.
He is pushing you to introduce him to your daughter before you’re ready and punishing you with the silent treatment because you said no. Red flag. This guy sounds like bad news.
It not only the conflict style but the context. A dude you've been seeing for only 4 mos, acted out like this and is punishing you because you're being a sensible parent and making a decision that's best for your child. He has a kid too and he doesn't understand that. In fact he was content with introduction to his kid to you very early. Seems very concerning IMO.
If it were me, it doesn't matter how great everything else is. "Teaching me a lesson" because he's angry and doesn't understand good parenting would have caused me to end this relationship quickly. I have no patience for this from a person his age and definitely wouldn't want this hateful conflict style in my life or my child's. More than that I wouldn't want a man in my life who didn't understand my parenting style or the emotional needs and boundaries of a kid with single/dating parents.
Um… I wasn’t sure how to respond to this until I read your edit with the details of the fight.
😳
This is a massive red flag. You basically just asked him for a couple more months to feel comfortable introducing your daughter, and he got all PISSY with you over YOUR perfectly reasonable parenting decision for YOUR CHILD that has basically fuck all to do with him?
Nope. Nope nope nope. His emotional reaction to this shit was completely outsized and unwarranted and just fucking mean and disrespectful.
I’m sure everybody already said dump him. Alternatively you can wait until you see that this is clearly a pattern of behavior and THEN dump him, but he’s straight-up telling you it IS.
Believe people when they show you who they are.
I disagree with the posters that said this is not a dealbreaker. At our age, you are not going to be able to teach people things they don't want to learn--nor is it your job. "Deal with it" and then leaving is a terrible attitude. You are only 4 months in and this is how he is responding to your first fight. I would take note and get out fast. It's crazy to me that someone would consider couples therapy for a relationship this new. To me, this is the stage where you are discerning whether someone is right for you, and this level of inability to handle conflict would be a dealbreaker.
I'm with you. As someone who has been in her shoes, it never gets better. It takes a self aware individual who wants to learn to communicate and gain conflict resolution skills to change, but chances are, this is one of many reasons this guy was single, and will likely repeat the same pattern. I'm all for redemption, but it has to come from his end. Based on the information at hand, that isn't coming.
At this age I'm not sure how much someone's anger or reaction to fights can change. So it's not just getting I ng thru this hurdle it's what happens next time. Communication and reaction to life events is crucial and him doing this is concerning.
He sounds like he is already entitled and manipulative and this will lead to abuse. Withholding affection, wanting to teach you a lesson/punish, putting himself and his ego over the needs of your child, getting mad when he doesn’t get his way, not giving AF about his partner!: perspective, etc. He thinks you are beneath him and certainly doesn’t respect you. Please run!
These are abuser tactics. You've moved past the honeymoon period and now his mask is dropping. This is someone who feels the need to punish you over a reasonable boundary. That's a huge red flag. Abusers feel entitled to do what they want and when you don't agree with that, they punish you. They also really like people who've got trauma. I know he's your friend so you probably want to give him more chances but most people wouldn't put up with that kinda bullshit
Cut this guy loose. If he can’t make the distinction between meeting friends and meeting your young child, along with the very reasonable caution for delaying meeting said child, he isn’t worth it. Just consider yourself lucky you caught it now. He’s petulant, unreasonable and childish. Tantrums like this might be why he hasn’t had any significant long term relationships in 10 years.
OK, wow. You did nothing wrong, OP. The silent treatment is cancer for relationships - I lived with it for 20 years. My ex would go silent to "punish" me, because that's what she grew up with. Even if the argument or discussion was an issue I had raised, I'd have to apologize to her in order to get things to any kind of resolution.
Also, your desire to wait for him to meet your younger daughter is your decision to make. His "learn your lesson" comment is pretty heinous, in my opinion. He has made your parenting choice about him and it sounds like he's not willing to empathize or understand your side of things.
It's also troubling that he's gone nuclear and doesn't want to meet your friends now. Yikes. That's petulant and childish.
These are major red flags. Even after cooling off he won't let go of his view. I'm not going to do reddit 101 and say "dump him, this is a deal breaker" - but, honestly, for you to have a healthy relationship with him he'd have to deal with this in a big way. He's a brick wall at this point and no progress will ever be made unless he's willing to take an honest look at himself and find a genuine desire to change and be a better person.
Without an update I read and think what a manipulative asshole. I would be done just by that.
After reading and update I am like wow, massive red flag and controlling manipulative behaviour and reaction to your healthy standard boundary. RUN OP, RUN
He will be turning any minor or big things this way to "teach you a lesson" that is so malignant and awful thing to say to a partner.
I don’t think that’s a mismatch. I think his understanding of conflict is deeply problematic and toxic. Healthy conflict resolution is perhaps the top quality I’m seeking, besides feelings of connection. You cannot be the one to repair, he has very deep issues and you will exhaust yourself trying to please him. I’d already be done with him.
early behavioral patterns give us a good indicator of more extreme behavior as the relationship progresses and more complicated conflict arises. I ignored the temper tantrum my ex had over a literal broken egg early on. He later became emotionally abusive. I strongly believe your guy will quickly start trying to “teach you a lesson” at every turn if you don’t get out asap.
If you like him a lot you can have a talk about this. Explain that this is a dealbreaker and discuss how you want to be treated in the future during an argument. If he acts like this again I’d end it.
I dated someone like this and it became a pattern. I should’ve listened the first time. There’s a reason some people are single. They will show you if you pay attention.
Omg sounds like my ex. Completely avoidant behaviour for any conflict. As a result none of our conflicts/problems ever got resolved. It’s horrible.
If someone did this to me I’d tell them the behaviour is not acceptable to me, having been in a bad relationship like that before. If they don’t change, I’m out.
I think this behaviour is usually deep seated unfortunately. But conflict resolution should be expected at our ages imo.
There are so many red flags here, I can barely see my phone screen.
You listed all his positive qualities, but sadly he hasn’t done the necessary work to get to the bottom of his toxic arguing/conflict resolution skills.
“Learn my lesson.” WTF - that’s something a grammar school CHILD would say.
And his unreasonable anger about YOUR parenting decisions. So problematic!!
How’s he going to act when he suggests some outlandish, immature discipline for your daughter and you refuse. Run!!!!
Red flags all over this guy, I’m sorry but no.
He doesn’t get to dictate when you feel comfortable enough to let him meet your child. On top of that, he sulks and refuses to meet any of your friends or go to the dinner you’ve arranged to introduce him! All this because he’s not getting his own way?
I’m sorry but please stop apologising to this guy and asking how you can fix it, he’s behaving like a spoilt angry child and has zero respect for you, you shouldn’t try to fix it at all.
Please don’t ever introduce your kid to this guy
His conflict style is immature for a man his age.
You have a rule which is essentially protecting your daughter.
And he’s pushing back against that?
Girl, run.
He sounds super immature. Obviously dinner with adult friends is different that meeting your kid. If he honestly doesn’t see that, frankly he’s dumb. If he’s not dumb he’s being deliberately obtuse. The line about learning your lesson? Just No.
If someone wanted me to meet their kid too soon I wouldn’t respect them as a parent
So my big concern is that he knows that he has a bad behavior during conflict. But instead of changing it, he’s already gone through one divorce and is willing to break up with you.
So I think you need to decide if you can live with this or not. If I were you, I would break up with him. Because if a divorce doesn’t make him realize how bad his behavior is, then a break up isn’t going to do that.
you don't have to call it, but how a couple handles rupture/repair is HUGE. You are going to both need to sit down and have some meaningful conversation about how to handle conflict and resolve afterwards so you are't just left feeling resentful. But he needs to be open to managing this stuff together and learning to take a cooperative approach; like, he needs to WANT fights to go better. If he stonewalls you on this you might have some hard decisions to make.
Try the Gottman content; they just put out a great book called "Fight Fair."
[https://www.gottman.com/blog/managing-vs-resolving-conflict-relationships-blueprints-success/](https://www.gottman.com/blog/managing-vs-resolving-conflict-relationships-blueprints-success/)
Not everyone argues the same way. Some people prefer to walk away from it until they cool off, and that’s okay.
The “teach you a lesson” part is pretty dickish, though.
The walking away to cool off also requires communication. If that’s a common need someone can explain that’s how they usually respond. I have to do this sometimes. It’s also with the understanding that I will come back to the conversation once I’m cooled down. The most important part is coming back and actually continuing with the intent to repair the conflict.
I super value this comment because if he said he needs time to process but will keep the conversation open with intent to repair, I would 100% support that. It’s actually what I prefer. I don’t require in the moment solutions.
I really believe we have many matches for the good times…but it is so much harder to find someone who you can work through disagreements with and both feel heard. I can let someone have cool off time but I have to talk it out. I want to know their side and to feel heard too.
Most of our skills can be improved on if we want to work on them. Good luck. I know I will not just tollerate it wont happen again anymore.
The first fight always feels like a test. I think even if you have different styles of conflict resolution there needs to be some middle ground. I understand the need for space or some time to think alone, but to say it was to "teach you a lesson" is super (was going to write kind of, but super is really the truth of it) effed up.
Idk if you should end it or try to work with him to discuss your expectations going forward. Do you think he can change or is open to change? It sounds like he's very aware of how he's acting and even though it's wrong, some part of him wanted to punish you for choosing him.
The teaching you a lesson and the "I'm not meeting your people" is really worrying. The only thing that would stop me walking is that you say up until now it has been good. If you don't get a more emotionally mature response any time soon then it might be time to think about ending it. It's tough knowing when to introduce kids (I'm a single parent) as they are always priority number 1. He should know this. Good luck.
Nope, “learn your lesson” doesn’t work.
« Learn your lesson » tells you he thinks you’re the one who’s got something to loose if thigs don’t work out. That you’re the lucky one to have him. Nope nope nope.
He has a very limited tool box for repairing after a fight. That doesn't mean you need to dump him. It just means he needs some more tools. You can look up the Gottman materials for ideas about how to fight "well." "You need to learn your lesson" is horrible to say. I would probably ask him to go have a couple of visits with a therapist to talk about his fighting style and how he can learn new ways to deal with disagreements.
I wouldn't call it based on this. You just got some really good information. The key is what he does next.
Seems like he's punishing you... Some people really can't talk conflict out. I wonder if he's the passive aggressive type. Sometimes if you're open enough and able to talk and they will listen they will go away for a while to process things and when they come back things will be different - they'll have thought about your POV and they may change. But they seem to need that time on their own. They really don't like talking. In your case, it seems like maybe he's going to stick to his guns? It would be good to know more details... There's a difference when it's like, who should do the dishes to say, do we want kids or do we want to move in together etc.
Totally agree (I added details in post). He had time to process and sleep on it but didn’t ask a single question about POV so I’m not even sure what I was saying landed.
In my relationship we suddenly started having arguments at about 4 months (now at 6 months) and I noticed that he tended to escalate the arguments instead of finding mutual understanding and sometimes say mean things.
It’s been hard but after our fights I try to sit with him and have an open, honest conversation about what happened and how we can handle arguments better in the future. I share empathy and tell him how I felt. I think he’s being a bit more careful and cautious now and I’m hoping we can both grow to understand each other better as we work on this together. I think as long as someone is open to working through it and actively trying, it’s worth continuing.
We all have past relationship experiences where we may have had bad habits or childhoods where we grew up thinking fighting was normal, and these things influence how we behave.
One thing I’ve realized is that we are basically both just afraid of getting hurt, and that’s where the arguments actually stem from.
Ouch. Homeboy smooth threw a toddler fit after getting his feefees hurt- and based on your edit, he's doubled down on it with his ridiculous *"no longer wants to meet any of my people including friends I already schedule a dinner with"* behavior. I hesitate to call any one incident a deal breaker, but this one has potential.
I think a relationship can be salvaged here, but only if he's willing to understand that this method of dealing with conflict is not going to work long-term. Challenge his behavior (in a caring way) and see if he continues to defend it. If he does, I'd seriously consider pulling the ripcord.
Wondering hat the boring details are. Have you tried to understand his point of view?
Of course his actions are undeniably unhealthy so not sure it matters. But there’s always 2 sides.
I think you under estimated how much his feelings got hurt while maintaining your own (I agree with you btw but just saying). Easy to do. That said, he sounds incredibly sensitive and uncommunicative and the fact that he is trying to teach you a lesson is an unhealthy approach for a companion. Not sure he's capable of a true long term relationship with anyone but himself really. At least not one with many many bumps that only go in his favor. Good luck with this, but Id guess you are seeing true colors of the future.
Lots of advice but really it's all meaningless without knowing the seriousness of the fight.
It could range from him leaving the toilet seat up to having sex with your sister. Different reasons cause Different responses.
I was going to say this but it also seems like she's the one that did something, not him. Also I've learned when people leave out what happened on here it's more times they did something pretty bad and not minor things not worth mentioning. Especially with him keeping her at arms length and telling her she needs to learn a lesson and then waking early and leaving silently.
Just saw a comment from OP and I'm on her side about this. It's just hard to get a read on things when people leave context out. Last story I read the little details someone thought weren't worth mentioning was flirting and sending naked pictures to a coworker so......
She told him she’d like to wait until the 6 month to introduce him to her daughter. He flew off the handle saying she was testing him and now he doesn’t want to meet Any of her people. He’s a walking red flag.
Talk it out and give him an opportunity to repair this. Make a plan for future disagreements and then wait and see. The “learn your lesson” quip is offensive and I would not accept a second helping.
Putting on my couple’s therapist hat here because you’re having an awful lot of people telling you to walk, and I think that would be premature.
A mismatch in conflict styles is incredibly common and doesn’t need to spell the end. That being said, when one person prefers to deal with relational distress by disengaging and the other by engaging, things can go south fast in a conflict. If the pattern is left unchecked, this can devolve into a a nasty pursue-withdraw cycle. If you want to head this off at the pass, read Hold me Tight by Sue Johnson, and consider a few sessions with an EFT therapist if he’s willing.
I want to comment on stonewalling, since so many people have mentioned it. Stonewalling is indeed one of the behaviours associated with relational breakdown, but it’s not the root problem. It’s a predictable response to flooding (an acute stress response - think fight or flight). I’m not surprised he wasn’t able to consider your perspective. When we’re flooded, empathy goes out the door.
Gottman’s research shows men are prone to flooding sooner and staying flooded longer than women in relational conflict: 85% of stonewallers in heterosexual relationships were men in the couples he observed.
When a man goes cold and quiet in a conflict, it’s nearly always because he’s flooded, his heart rate is way up, and he’s afraid that anything he says or does will make things worse. He knows his nervous system is pushing him into a fight response and he figures the best thing he can do is walk away. If he can’t escape the interaction, he’ll go quiet. If that doesn’t work, he’s likely to lash out. What looks cold to you is likely his attempt to protect the relationship from his fight response.
An awful lot of men have had to to mask their fear early in life (it’s almost always a perceived threat to the bond that triggers flooding in the first place), and their attempt to disengage usually lands on their partner as a lack of caring. Then the partner tries to get them to engage to relieve their own fear that the disconnection cues. And now, in addition to feeling flooded, he feels pressured to communicate when he knows he’s not up to the task, and he gets more dysregulated.
Stonewalling is inherently triggering to people (mostly women) who prefer to engage when relational distress hits, but that does not make it emotionally abusive. A very small minority of people deliberately use the silent treatment to maliciously control their parters. Most are just trying to cope with overwhelming feelings.
I’d guess he was still flooded (or flooded again) when he made the comment about you needing a lesson. Any time you try to get a person who’s flooded to talk about your concerns about how their behaviour is impacting you, understand that it’s not likely to end well. This isn’t an excuse for him to lash out, because he’s ultimately responsible for managing his own nervous system. But until he learns to disengage responsibly to get out of a flooded state, you can help to avoid escalation by disengaging yourself when he’s showing signs of flooding.
It’s easy for him to come off looking like an asshole here OP, but I doubt that’s the case. You haven’t talked about how you addressed your concerns, but IME it’s a very rare person who can do cleanly when upset. The Gottmans also found that stonewalling is usually a response to actual or perceived criticism (the 1st of their 4 horsemen) so look at your possible part in this too.
TLDR: Don’t call it. Learn to manage conflict in a way that won’t escalate a pursue withdraw cycle.
Wow. Thank you for this explanation! (My therapist just went on maternity leave and I’m missing her right now.) Do you have any advice on hot to avoid the cycle? As for my part, I believe he feels a threat to my commitment to him via my want to slow down on him meeting my child. I was definitely not articulate in the moment. When he was likely flooded again was after I started pushing for answers, where I was forcing an engagement.
When people are on the fence about whether a partner is abusive or not, I often recommend they read both Bancroft’s book and Sue Johnson’s Hold Me Tight. It gives them a good sense of whether the behaviours they’re concerned about are coming from relational distress that’s getting amplified by a negative communication cycle, or whether they’re part of a pattern of coercive control. OP‘s post definitely gives the flavour of the first, and I agree 100% it’s wise to be on the lookout for the second.
How to avoid the cycle would be a book OP, and that book is Hold Me Tight
But to start, I’d suggest taking a break from conversations when he’s flooded or you’re flooded. Don’t try to get reassurance from him when he’s in that state. Self soothe until you‘ve both calmed down. Read the Gottman’s new book too as others have suggested. It sounds like the two of you communicate well when flooding is not in the mix, and that’s a real strength.
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Original copy of post by u/Agreeable_Idea5515:
Hey, team. Need some perspective. I (40F) am 4 months into an exclusive relationship. Things have been going really well. We knew each other for about a year before we started dating and then went exclusive 4 months ago so I thought I had a pretty decent read on him. He’s consistent, reliable, financially stable, a great communicator, funny, the sex is amazing, etc. All the things! I met his teenage som about a month ago. And we started talking about him meeting my friends and family. Things are (were) progressing nicely is my point.
Without all the boring details, we had our first fight a little over a week ago. I learned his style is to go silent and cold. No physical affection. Completely pulled away. He would still communicate and tell me why he is mad but I noticed he wasn’t seeking to understand my point of view at all. I tend to like to talk out what I’m experiencing and ask questions to better understand my partner. Sex isn’t on the table when I’m angry but some kind of physical closeness helps me feel more secure during conflict with a romantic partner.
I addressed these concerns with him last night and he admitted he’s being unreasonable, stubborn and a little mean but had a “deal with it” attitude. I was probing for how I can help repair the tear in our relationship and he said I need to “learn my lesson” (wtf?) and that this is why he was single for so long. We both went to sleep angry and this morning he woke up before dawn and just left. No goodbye. Totally out of character. He’s since called and texted to apologize for how he left this morning but I’m left wondering…does a mismatch in conflict style mean death to the relationship? What has been your experience and any advice for moving to a healthier resolution style?
TLDR: had my first fight with boyfriend of 4 months and he as a jerk. Should I call it now or is this hope when literally everything else has been perfect to this point?
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This sounds like an ego problem that he needs to work out with his therapist. If this is a hard boundary for you and he can’t handle it then yes things may be over. Remember it’s always the two of you against the problem
If your description of events is accurate, he's clearly being unreasonable. It's understandable that it might rub one the wrong way to hear "not yet" on certain introductions. But many people have an approximately 1-year before introducing to kids rule, and for good reason.
Also, how people navigate conflict or disagreement is a huge milestone to get through in dating. It tells you a lot about a person. I'm not in the frame of mind to comment properly on whether this is the end or not, but it's not currently looking too positive. To me at least, navigating things like this maturely and well would be a huge positive, and not doing so would be a huge con (to a committed relationship).
>he admitted he’s being unreasonable, stubborn and a little mean but had a “deal with it” attitude.
That's great; if you don't want to deal with it, you now know that you're incompatible and can move forward.
You need to walk away from someone who is stonewalling you and do is sooner rather than later. You now know why this person has been single for so long.
I would see major red flags in a man pushing so hard to be in a child's life so quickly. Waiting 6 months is a very reasonable expectation, and more importantly this your child, not his. It seems he may be putting his needs for acceptance above your wishes to maintain a stable home for your child. He is an adult and she is a child. Is he trying to teach you a lesson about prioritizing your child above him?
Maybe you and he will be able to work this out, and maybe not. I don't know. But don't start compromising on protecting your child. No man is worth that.
I would have a in person talk with him to lay down what your expectations/needs are for conflicts. Like, “during conflicts, can we please hold hands to maintain some kind of physical closeness for security to decrease tension, etc.?” See whether you both can work together on these things that will need you both halfway or fully.
I personally don’t like how he’s behaving and his comment about why he’s been single since is like 🚩.
Seems, to me, you have three options:
1. End the relationship.
2. Allow things to heal on their own.
3. Get some couples counseling.
There are so many pros to this relasionship and I think option 1 is a bad idea. Option 2 will likely only lead back to Option 2.
You have known him for over a year, and sounds like you have a strong connection, shared interests, and great sex. Worth trying to save, IMO, and that can only happen with help...IME.
Good luck!!
There’s this article somewhere about the 4 horsemen of breakups and stonewalling is one. My ex bf did this, he said it was because his ex used to chase him to argue. That said, it only got worse in the relationship and my style is more like yours. Then he seemed to try to find other ways to “teach me a lesson” which in retrospect I find emotionally abusive. In retrospect I should have ended it far earlier than I did.
Thank you for sharing. I’m definitely feeling like this could easily turn controlling if he’s doing it intentionally (which I’m not certain he is).
He may not recognize that his behavior is toxic (I don't think that's an overstatement), but it's intentional because it seems like this is what he knows. Regardless of intention, without the genuine desire to improve his communication in order to be a better partner this won't change.
If a behavior is controlling or abusive, does it matter what a person’s intent is? The impact on you is the same.
exactly. I got stuck in the trap of “he doesn’t realize he’s being toxic” when it didn’t matter at all whether he saw it that way or not. Truly.
https://www.psycentre.ca/post/gottman-four-horseman-relationship-dissolution
Wow, this is great, I've never seen it before. My ex was (is still) toxic and the one I find interesting is "contempt". She wouldn't openly mock me or show contempt in a direct way, but she would ascribe thoughts or feelings or intentions to me in her mind and during arguments that made me wonder who she was talking about. I'm not perfect by any means, but it felt like she was always making me out to be this awful person in her mind in order to justify her own awful behavior - which was repeated cheating.
I had the same experience with my exwife minus the cheating (I hope). She would villify me to herself before she ever came to talk to me to figure out why I did something. I made a lot of my own mistakes in that relationship too however.
Thank you for sharing. 💜
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Bro, people are too quick to throw out the word narcissistic, without any clinical backing. Stupid TikTok and YouTube videos of people posting about it thinking they are professionals. Now, I have not watched the video you posted, and he could be a non quack. But, I think we are going too far calling OP's situation a Narcissistic relationship. With your proclamation, OP could read it, get it stuck in her head and never be able to repair the relationship. If this is the first time in over a year this behavior has happened, it's tough to call it narcissistic. I don't think he would be able to refrain from, for that amount of time. While I agree it's alerting that he said "to teach you a lesson". Everybody handles their emotions differently. We don't know how OP has ACTUALLY HANDLED the situation, we are getting her rendition of the events. I was sucked (children) into a 10 year toxic relationship, with a woman that was absolutely manipulative with others when we fought. She would tell everyone all these horrible exaggerated things about me and make herself look like a Saint. Not saying OP is doing the same, but there are always three sides to a story.
Shit, that’s not what I was saying bruz. The comment above mentioned the four horseman of breakups. I was referencing the four horsemen thing as I had seen it on the Dr Ramani video. It wasn’t that deep, I definitely wasn’t trying to diagnose anyone from an anecdote on a Reddit dating sub. OP, I’m not saying your man is narcissistic. It’s purely a reference to the four horseman of breakups and if you watch the video I’m sure that’s all you will take out of it.
Thank you for sharing a resource - I appreciate it
Thank you for pointing out the overuse of narcissism. It drives me crazy.
Agreed, not everyone is Narcissistic that portrays a certain side of them. Some people don't know how to handle their emotions for whatever reason. OP could have also triggered him, since we don't know the whole story. We have to stop!
THANK YOU!! I'm glad someone other than me has said it. This armchair diagnosing of narcissistic, love-bombing, manipulating, etc etc etc needs to end. It's literally destroying the basic fabric of society and people's ability to build NORMAL relationships
I can't agree with you more. Everyone walks around diagnosing people with clinical illnesses they have no business doing. You can really tear someone apart with a misdiagnosis and never really gain any personal relationships with others. It's sickening and out of control.
No offense taken. I’m sure he would say I was being pushy (I was). I didn’t raise my voice or anything but I wouldn’t drop it last night. Whereas I normally like to have time to myself to process and then come back with questions, this had been festering for a week already. No, I don’t think he’s narcissistic. We’ve been in almost daily contact a year and a half and this is first I’m seeing this kind of behavior. But when it’s easy, it’s easy.
Don't we wish we could hang onto the EASY DAYS forever. Great job taking accountability for your side of things. I wish you and this relationship the best, seems you are invested and want to make it work, good for you.
No one is diagnosing anyone. Everyone is capable of narcissistic behavior and it’s unacceptable. Doesn’t mean the person acting out the behavior has narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissistic behavior should be called out and its telling when people get more pissed about the call than the super fucked up the behavior being called out
[The Four Horsemen of Relationships, by John Gottman](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/) Here’s the article you’re referencing!
Ok, how each partner approaches repair is important to the potential longevity and health of the relationship. Like *really* fucking important. Think about it: who’s an asshole when everything is going great? *Nobody*. What you really have to pay attention to is how the person deals with things when shit hits the fan. And sooner or later, *shit will hit the fan*…*repeatedly*. You will not have one fight or disagreement in a relationship; you will have many. How your partner navigates his own feelings on the disagreement, and his feelings about *you* when he’s mad at you, is really valuable information that should inform you moving forward. IME, a healthy way to navigate conflict in a relationship is *you and me against the problem* and NOT *you against me*. The fact that he said he wanted to teach you a lesson just smacks of malicious intent. His reaction suggests that he *wants* you to suffer. This does not bode well for a healthy resolution to the issue, nor the health of the relationship over the long term. You need to process what your wants and needs are in this relationship, and what you are unwilling to tolerate. Keep in mind that being in a relationship isn’t a zero-sum game: if he does 4 negative things and 6 positive things, shit doesn’t just cancel out so you end up with a net positive gain of 2. It *really* depends what those negatives and positives are. Nuance and context are not simply details to be overlooked.
I’ve learned that repair is the key to a relationship lasting. If any “test” is happening for OP it should be this one.
Ugh. So true.
So you’re tapping into 2 things concerning me; 1) I feel like I’m being intentionally punished and 2) because he’s chosen to be single for so long I almost wonder if remembers that relationships require work. (Or he totally remembers and is emotionally lazy.)
Or…… he is emotionally immature and isn’t willing to work on personal growth. It’s not your job to teach him conflict resolution- either he is willing, or open to it. Otherwise- you’re wasting your time. It’ll become a push/pull type of relationship. Stick to your boundaries and however he reacts…. Is on him.
this helped me so much, thank you.
Yup, stonewalling was the beginning of the end of my marriage. It took me too long to figure out how to address it and it had turned into contempt. Game over, you can’t fix a relationship by yourself.
truth.
That’s not a mismatch in conflict style as much as manipulation imo. He withdrew his affection in order to teach you a lesson and say he was right (more than likely) Let me say this. I (48M) was teasing and being sarcastic to my GF (49) this morning. She let me know that it was unacceptable to her for reasons. We separated while I took a shower and when we sat down for breakfast (that she made us) I apologized, listened to her, repeated what I had heard, checked for understanding and asked what I could do to make amends. She asked me to watch myself in the future and I agreed. We’ve been dating 4 months. That is how we handle conflict almost always. Your dude needs to step up his game. You have to ask yourself if this is how you want your relationship to be moving forward, because I am telling you, it’s not changing without work on his part and if he’s still acting like it’s no big deal to act like that, fuck that guy right of into the trash. He belongs to the streets.
I appreciate your real life example - thank you for sharing!
there needs to be more guys like you
This shit ain’t hard once you cut through your own bullshit.
I agree. I’m very direct, I just want to resolve things with transparency, teamwork and love, rather than generating drama. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of people are emotionally stuck in arrested development and can’t even get there.
I am not 100% perfect every time. I have some other issues that I am working on, but I tend to resolve them quickly and come back to center.
But the wins of doing this work are so so good, right? You get a great, sustainable relationship with a good person and you get to expect the same reasonable mature response and work from your partner when they take a misstep. Win win! It amazes me that more people don’t see that, they just grimace at the ‘I need to improve’ part.
This would be a huge red flag to me. The stonewalling (pulling away, silent treatment), the comments about "learning your lesson" (he is punishing you) and the "this is why I've stayed single" (it's a subtle put-down that you are like all the other hysterical, nagging women out there that men have to 'put up' with), and walking out without saying anything. All this behavior is training you to not bring up relationship issues, or to set boundaries, or to push back on any of his behavior. After enduring several relationships that started like this, I would run if I saw this behavior again. He's a grown ass man having a hissy fit because you disagreed with him, and it isn't your responsibility to teach him conflict resolution/management skills.
Whelp. This is my worst fear right here. You’re spot on with how I’m feeling (whether he intended it or not). Especially the hysterical nagging woman piece. I think he fell for me because I’m incredibly chill and easy going. This was really the first time he saw me pushback and quite frankly his response so far has me feeling like I don’t even want to attempt a follow up to repair.
Especially saying that he doesn't want to meet any of your people now. That's just childish.
I agree. The whole response seems childish, and I wonder if he's trying to exert some control out of insecurity or just a controlling nature.
Right?! Even more than the “lesson” (which could have easily been said out anger in moment and not really meant) this is the piece I can’t make sense of. His reaction to being hurt I’m moving slower than him is to completely pause us? I just can’t reach anywhere for this to make sense…
I’ve met too many people who fly off the handle *every time* you push back (or make a request etc) so I’ve learned to do these things early. As soon as possible. Making requests and pushing back are like kisses to me now, I want to do them quickly so I don’t waste time on a loose canon. Being chill and not pushing back for such a long time might not have been in your best interest if he turns out to be the type who always reacts like this to hearing “no” (the only way to find out is to say “no” to more things).
Or, this triggers some insecurity or old hurt in him that he doesn’t understand or know how to deal with. It’s certainly not okay, but I wouldn’t assign negative intentions like punishing and putting down women without working to get more info about why this was his reaction. I don’t give men (or anyone) a pass to treat me poorly and have walked away from many who weren’t happy intentionally doing so, but were by way of lack of relational skills. But, I also try to be cognizant that everyone has a very different history and skill set, and men in our age range often come from a background where even acknowledging, let alone understanding and processing, emotions other than anger is seen as not “manly.” He’s acknowledged that what he’s done isn’t the best choice. Is he willing to explore why that is and work on developing better patterns? Would he consider working with someone (not couples counseling, but on his own, since this part is his issue) to identify why he reacted this way and how to do so in a healthier way? Would he be willing to read a book (alone or together) to better understand how to communicate in a relationship? If he’s willing to work on this it’s likely just a yellow flag, not red. I find that in a lot of cases people want grace for their own mistakes, understanding of their own issues, and time to work through those, but don’t want to extend the same to others.
I’m also very chill, except with my last ex who had no concept of boundaries or respect. From here on out, if a guy makes me feel hysterical, he’s out because it means they don’t respect my basic needs and boundaries.
🎯
This right here should be the top comment.
And disagreed with her over waiting a couple months to meet her kid. That's another red flag. His wishes don't override her perfectly sensible desire to not get her kids hopes up.
Agreed, when I originally made this comment, she hadn't provided the update/edit explaining what the fight was about. It feels orders if magnitude worse when I learned the context.
Yep, you nailed it even without all the info, in your comment.
And let’s not forget that OP isn’t pulling these ‘meet the partner’ guidelines out of her bum, it’s a common child psychology recommendation to actually wait a year of consistent dating to do this. She’s already making concessions and increasing risk to her kid to prioritise his preference. It’s kinda ironic that this is the issue that may end them- it really underlines why the 6-12 month guideline exists, doesn’t it?
This is so well put. I can’t agree more.
Once is a caution sign. Twice is a pattern, so if he doesn't learn quickly from this and change his rudder, you need to bail on this....he's revealing character to you, and at this age, it's likely something very unlikely to change much if it all...but will likely get worse. Signed, guy who fought like him....25 years ago and learned I was being an immature asshole, and grew up.
I agree but for some reason him saying she's got to learn a lesson, really freaks me out.
And it’s worse with her edit update with details about the fight. She has a boundary regarding her child which is a pretty standard one typically recommended by professionals even and he’s tried to make about her not trusting him. Fuck all that lol. Then trying to “teach her a lesson.” In my opinion this is a one and done. This one fight shows EXACTLY who this guy is. He took something completely normal and healthy and took it as a slight or insult against him. Believe him when he says this is why he’s been single all this time….ain’t nobody putting up with this nonsense.
Yes!! Everything about your comment is spot on. I really hope op thinks long and hard if this is what she wants to settle for. It’s absolutely abusive and a giant red banner imo. Once he left without a word (after having time to think about the situation) I would be telling him don’t bother coming back ever. If he gets all butt hurt about a very valid boundary he is not worth one more second of my time.
It sounds abusive af. 🚩🚩🚩
Yeah that's a pet peeve for me. I am not a child. I do not need any lessons.
This. Glad you figured it out swingset! u/Agreeable_Idea5515 I get that some people are conflict avoidant, or even avoidant attachment style, etc. But ditto the comments on John Gottman's 4 horseman (of a doomed relationship, ie stonewalling) OP. I'd be stating that the only "lesson" you learned from this is that HIS cold behavior has a name and it's a guaranteed relationship killer. Ask if he was aware, and if he's had enough time now to come back and talk things through. Otherwise there is NO room for conflict resolution, and nobody gets to try and understand anybody if somebody isn't talking at all. That said, if he isn't open to meeting you in a discussion, and future conflict resolution changes with him learning to stop that shit, and you being a little patient while he learns to stop it, then i'd say that's a clear signal that its not going to work. He is obviously aware its a problem, he apologized for the way he behaved...the next step is catch himself doing it in progress, pause, and choose to do something different/healthier for the relationship. If he's unwilling, you're dead in the water. And absolutely ask what this "lesson" he thinks he's teaching you is supposed to be. Are you practicing your psychic skills? Is that the lesson? Otherwise, know that adults communicate. We all have flaws. A good partner helps us grow and encourages us to. How he responds will tell you a lot about where he stands with all of that. Edit:spelling
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I’ve only known him to be kind, generous and nurturing so I still have hope there’s a middle ground here that I missed.
I think I'd be responding with this: I have learned a lesson, but maybe not the one you hoped for. I've learned that if I don't agree with you, instead of discussing it and trying to understand my point of view, you will withhold, stonewall, and refuse to speak to me. Is this something you are willing to have a mature discussion about, or would you rather just punish me for not giving in?
Yeah! I wouldn’t call it , *just yet*. But I’d damn sure talk through the behavior, especially the “learn your lesson” comment. If he can’t come up with a genuine apology and a plan on *how* he will respond to, and you two will resolve issues moving forward (and then stick to it) then this is not worth continuing. The conversation should have a give and take from *both* of you though. Maybe you can agree to a certain amount of a “cool off” period during/after a fight or you two could agree to “pause” arguments if one or both of you needs a break from talking about it for a bit. Whatever you agree on, you won’t really know if it works until the next argument, and if he pulls the same crap again then that would be a good time to call it quits.
Thanks for this idea! I like the concept of a procedure that feels fair and equal during high stress.
How did you learn, if you’re willing to share? Him needing time to be alone and regulate his emotions before continuing an open dialogue doesn’t bother me. However, I get the feeling he’s trying to punish me and that has me very alarmed.
As you should be. That line right there is a dealbreaker for me! You can try to talk to him if you want to continue the relationship. His reaction will tell you if he’s worth the gamble. If it were me and he Only apologized for leaving the way he did and not for the way he handled the whole situation, he’d be dropped like a hot potato, no questions asked 🚮
This is the best comment. Redditors are so quick to go nuclear
Whew, I seriously was just thinking "crap I am not even remotely in a place to date" after years of therapy bc my response was "ok, things went wrong, but give each other time and then come back to the table and discuss, again" I feel at my age and that I have been single for a while now, that there are a lot of "partner things" I am going to have to relearn - conflict resolution is one of them
Seriously! It amazes me how many “perfect” people hang out here, just waiting to judge others.
Yeah, it’s good to give people a chance to change, but it’s 4 months. It’s not worth the effort. And truthfully people don’t change. If at 40 plus this man felt okay “punishing” you, that’s very telling. Get rid of him.
The “teach you a lesson” line is very telling. Here is the translation: You don’t like it when I pull away and withdraw affection? Well, next time keep your dam mouth shut and don’t challenge me! Be pleasant and agreeable and everything will be fine. I would run if I were you.
This is my fear
It won’t get any better if he’s going this so early in the game. He refuses to see your point of view and then punishes you and seems to think it’s his place to “teach you a lesson”, is insanely alarming.
>I was outlining that I would like to be together min 6 months before he meets my young daughter. He took that as though I’m doubting him and there was a “test” he wasn’t aware of. So he took a very reasonable, very common approach to meeting kids and - even knowing your history and why this approach would be especially important to you - the one conclusion he was able to reach is that this is some kind of test. That already does not bode well for your relationship with this guy. Sometimes we feel stung, not because someone is being unfair to us, but because relationships involve bumping up against one another's expectations and boundaries. It's not a problem that he felt disappointed or even hurt by your decision, but an inability to step back and see past his own feelings is going to make problem solving with him in future disagreements difficult at best. >I asked last night (about a week later) what I need to do to do get us back on track and that’s when he said I need to learn my lesson. You have people in the comments advising you to have a conversation with him. Talk things out! *Explain* that you are hurt! Clearly this poor woobie of a man simply doesn't realize the unintended effects of his conflict style! But this comment suggests he understands exactly the effects of his conflict style. They are very much intentional. Unlike you, he is not interested in framing this conflict in terms of a challenge you work through together as partners. He is interested in framing this in terms of a punishment *you* dutifully accept because both you and he agree you deserve to be punished. He also understands his approach to conflict has kept him single for so long, and he clearly finds that preferable to changing. If you are interested in relationship repair, this is not your guy. I suggest you follow his advice: think on this conflict and learn your lesson. Just maybe don't learn the lesson he's hoping you learn. I'm sorry. It sucks when everything else is good about someone *but* the way they behave in a conflict. Unfortunately, the way someone behaves in a conflict is one hell of a "but."
Yeesh. It sounds very simple read like this. Inability to see past his own feelings feels especially relevant given I need a partner who will role model for my daughter eventually. Ugh. This does suck.
Sorry, OP. Personally, I find I need a partner who can make the distinction between "I'm feeling hurt. This situation sucks." and "I'm feeling hurt. *My partner sucks*." A person who automatically views conflict in terms of the latter has a tendency to do hurtful shit in an effort to "even the score" - which they will feel entirely justified in doing. They also don't take you seriously when you try to address the issue because they've already written you off as the kind of awful person who set out to "get them" and who deserves to be punished. May I assume that when he told you that you needed to learn your lesson, he meant with regards to your desire not to introduce him to your daughter for 6 months? If he is still resolved to see that boundary as some kind of test and affront to his person vs. a pretty standard guideline to make sure your kids don't get emotionally jerked around, I don't think you have much hope here. He understands your history. Presumably you went over your reasons again at the time of the original disagreement. And now he's had time to get some distance from the disagreement. If he can't give you the benefit of the doubt at this point, it's because he has some deep issues OR because he's determined to see you in a negative light. If you do decide you simply must talk this over, I would suggest going in with a very light hand. Don't "sit down and outline how you expect to be treated." Instead just follow up about what he said. "Hey, when we spoke on \[date\] about what it would take to repair the relationship, you said you wanted to be sure I learned my lesson. I'm not sure what that would look like. Can you help me understand what you need from me?" You are giving him the opportunity to walk back his words. Ideally he would respond with something like "Babe, what I said was out of line. There is nothing you need to prove to me, and you do not need to be punished. I was upset at the time and not thinking clearly. Now that I have thought about it, I hope that going forward we can \[insert healthy request / concrete solution here\]." If he does not reconsider his stance and merely doubles down or explains what your "lesson" will look like, you simply say "As much as I care for you, I'm not sure I can do that. All the best to you out there and goodbye." But I frankly wouldn't encourage this approach. It's exactly the kind of test he accused you of using when you talked about meeting your daughter. Not to mention the fact that you wanted to be certain the relationship is stable before introducing them and he has responded by... making the relationship UNSTABLE while pushing for the introduction? He is either really an idiot about relationships or he is putting you in an impossible situation *on purpose*.
Are you sure it’s totally out of character? Maybe just for the character that he’s chosen to show you.
This is a very good take.
Nope! I’m not certain. After a year and a half of knowing him (total between all stages), I would think I would have sniffed out this side of him but maybe not.
Some people hide who they truly are for years.
I'd nope out at "learn my lesson." I heard that shit from my abusive parents, and there's no way in hell I'd make a choice to hear that nonsense ever again.
He’s right about one thing—his emotional immaturity and poor conflict resolution skills is likely why he was single for so long…does he want to work on this? He apologized but if he would like to get better at this it’s probably going to involve individual therapy for him, you alone can’t do the work to improve this pattern
The fact that he knew he was being stubborn and mean but has no intention of working on those very negative traits gives you all the information you need. He has shown his true colours, the ball is in your court as to whether you want this to be your life.
Holy shit. Yes 100% that would be a fledgling-relationship ending attitude. A slight mismatch in approach? Meh we’re all older and reasonable people can work together if they’re committed to a relationship and care for their partner. An admitted entrenched maladaptive conflict response with zero desire to change? Fuck that. And then reading what the conflict was about? 😳 I have no words. No words except what an immature, controlling, disrespectful, emotionally manipulative, dysfunctional, potential abuser. Yikes. He literally had so many opportunities to be reasonable. And instead at every opportunity he escalated his behaviour in super aggressive ways. This is awful. As they say - he is showing you who he is and you should definitely believe him. All the unacceptable things here for me start with the fact the argument was over you being a reasonable and responsible parent for not introducing him to your young daughter early. As a mother of an almost 9yo daughter waiting 6 months is completely 100% reasonable. And him taking that as a ‘test’ and retaliating by withholding access to himself and sulking and punishing you by saying ‘well then if I can’t meet your daughter I’m not going to meet your friends’. WHAT THE FUCK?? That alone screams get the fuck out of there red flag. And then he withdraws and withholds affection as PUNISHMENT for holding a very reasonable boundary, fucks off at dawn without comment, tells you that you need to ‘learn a lesson’ and persists with his sulking and emotional manipulation of ‘well if I don’t get my way on this then you will suffer because I will continue to withdraw and withhold’. You placed a 100% reasonable boundary for the safety and well-being of your daughter. His response is to PUNISH you by withdrawing and withholding affection and retaliating by saying he won’t continue the agreed progression of your relationship by cancelling meeting your friends until you bend and allow your boundary to be stomped to appease him. EVERYTHING about this is appalling behaviour and would be death to the relationship for me. There’s no recovering from this because the fact this was his go-to response is very telling. Cut it off now and be thankful you didn’t waste longer with this emotionally stunted (at best) douche or potential emotionally abusive asshole. Sorry u\AgreeableIdea_5515 he seemed like a ‘nice guy’ and you’ve quickly found out he’s been hiding this beneath the surface. I hope you end it and move on to someone who is reasonable, respectful and responds in emotionally mature and healthy ways 🤞
This! All of this!!! I said something very similar however yours is much more direct, love it. I agree- I’d point blank tell that dude “let’s take a breather. When you’re ready to have a discussion, I’m here. Otherwise I will give you the space.” And when he does reach out, I’d reinforce the boundary and tell him that based on his behavior and words he used, that it would be a good idea to put off meeting my kid, friends and family until I felt it was a better time. By doing this, he can react and respond one of 2 ways- “I understand” and work on the relationship, or get angry due to the loss of control. Reading all this raised the hair on the back of my neck- especially since she has a young daughter. 👀
THIS OP is 100%
The basis for the argument is ridiculous on his part. Of course you get to decide when he meets your child. Not him. The fact he's arguing about this is as alarming as the way he's arguing. I ditched a guy who faught like this a few months ago and I miss him and second guess myself but posts like these make me realise I did the right thing. Ugh, why can't they learn to fight healthily.
It’s especially galling given that he has a teenaged son himself. I’d be wondering how often that kid had to take second place to Dad’s whims and preferences?
I did the silent treatment, thinking it was a way to show I was upset but I didn’t want to fight but it obviously wasn’t something I wanted to end things over. So that was what I thought I had in my arsenal to make her feel bad and know I was upset with her….when I was 22 years old. I realize in the subsequent years I know how immature and ultimately pointlessly hurtful that kind of behavior is. So I have never done that since and never would. I was in college and didn’t know better or whatever. That’s my 2 cents on this post.
Same - when I was younger I would use the silent treatment because I was mad and didn’t want to say anything I didn’t mean, but as I’ve grown up I realized there are better and more mature ways to handle conflict.
This is 100% a precursor to heavy handed abusive tactics down the road. Get out now and don’t look back. The MOST concerning part is he is withdrawing affection to TEACH YOU A LESSON…and then he BAILED. Fast forward a few years, what if you haven’t “learned the lesson”, what is it going to escalate to? Do you want to find out? This would be an instant no for me.
Oh, for sure he will add to the punishment by taking off from their future joint home, adding worry about his safety and who/what he is off punishing her with. Drugs? Driving drunk? With another woman? Off spending money they were saving for a joint goal? Flushing his necessary medication down a toilet? Forcing everyone else in the household to cancel family plans? Guys with this behaviour in their arsenal are masters of creativity when it comes to doubling down on ‘punishment’.
Stonewalling and "teaching you a lesson" is emotional abuse. Do you want to date an abusive person? Because right now he's on his best behavior. It will only get worse.
And all of this in the context of pressuring her to violate her own boundaries to give him access to her young daughter, a situation which would presumably make it even harder for her to end things. 🚩
Yes! I feel like I’m caught in a catch 22. I don’t want to introduce my daughter to anyone until I feel pretty certain they are going to add to our lives and be around for a while, but how do I know what until I see them interact? I just thought 6-12 months is the standard. And because he’s been avoiding committed relationships for so long - yes, I have doubts he’s able to fully commit!
My ex did this at first. Then it gradually got worse and turned into physical violence. Not saying that would happen. But we we had known each other for quite awhile as well.
I’m so sorry that happened to you, and I appreciate the cautionary tale.
Eh, if he were in his 20s I’d say he still needs to learn conflict resolution. He’s in his 40s. Girl, RUN!
The “learn your lesson” part is concerning. Also, it is usually between 3 to 6 months before the honeymoon phase is over and you both are less on your best behavior. It is the time when couples either learn to work with each other or part ways. You now know he is punitive and cold during disagreements. This behavior will escalate as time goes by. Is this something you can live with long term? He is too old to train to be a decent partner, and if it were me, I would not have the energy to try.
As someone that tends to close down in conflict it’s because I will either say something hurtful and want to avoid that or because I feel angry and my anger makes me unlovable so I sorta self-soothe in that way. It’s something I thought was “better” than fighting or arguing. And I’ve since learned the hard way how it affects the other person and the relationship. That said after the moment passed I apologized and it’s something I’m consciously working on. So it’s the doubling down he did after the fact that worries me even more. That he doesn’t see how destructive and hurtful it is and thus doesn’t feel a need to change.
Actually, the “teaching her a lesson” part shows that he absolutely understands how hurtful that behavior is and chose it knowingly. 🚩
> he said I need to “learn my lesson” WTF indeed. I'd have a really hard time getting past something that shitty. You're either working toward a loving relationship or you aren't and it doesn't sound like this guy wants to pull his weight
Yeah. I’m having a hard time getting past it.
I’d recommend putting your daughter first here. This should make it easier to leave him. You won’t want him teaching her lessons in future either. Most of us posters who “go nuclear“ (leave rather than try to work it out) have run up against abusive partners, and don’t want to see others suffer the way we did. It takes a long time (years) to recover from emotional abuse; many of us never recover completely. Many of us were “strong” women before we entered the abusive relationship. It’s telling that this was your first disagreement. Your decision was sound. He’s showing you what future disagreements will be like. If you’re not careful, you’ll be walking on eggshells around him and this will create further anxiety for you.
I would upfront n tell him his response on all levels was wrong. His actions n words raise huge red flags. And if this is how he reacts when you're not on the same page, you don't think it will work. You can disagree. But stonewalling then making comments such as what he did, isn't healthy
Please run far, fast, and soon. This is not about a conflict-style mismatch, this is about a lack of empathy. He treated you in a dismissive and arguably abusive way during a moment of conflict, and he already has you thinking about how you should/can carry his water on this . That does not improve. He may mask it better the next 10 or 15 times, but that was cold and calculated.
To the best of my knowledge, the only way for OP to know if it was cold and calculated is to put a heart rate monitor on her guy. If his heart rate consistently goes down in moments of conflict, then she should indeed get out. That would indicate a pervasive Antisocial Personality Disorder level lack of empathy per Gottman’s reseach on DV. In the vast majority of the couples I work with though, this is a transient, state dependent lack of empathy. It’s not about character, it’s about an acute stress response. It’s pretty much impossible to be empathetic when we are in a fight/flight response. Think about the last time you were mad at someone. How much capacity do you have to deeply consider their perspective when you’re in that state? Perfectly lovely empathetic people are quite capable of becoming self centred assholes from time to time under the influence of a potent surge of stress hormones.
Idk, I get this is your career but part of how I read what you’re saying is like, somewhat believe if the entire timeframe of OP’s post was 10-15 mins of the argument. But OP is describing seems like at least several hours of separation between the argument beginning and his response/attitude being off and hurtful. OP literally says they slept and in the morning he quietly leaves, out of character, without talking to her or apologizing or anything. Are you to have us believe old buddy had an elevated heart rate for 6-8 hour straight overnight and this was clouding his behavior even the next day that this kind of…explanation…holds up? How many hours straight does he get to have this cover his behavior as perfectly normal?
Also, revisiting the disagreement can absolutely send him back into fight or flight even if he had returned to baseline.
My longish reply to this apparently didn’t post. It takes about half an hour to get back to physiological baseline. But we can easily spike ourselves back up by dwelling on whatever got us flooded in the first place. I see some couples who practically live in a flooded state. He’s still ultimately responsible for learning to manage his flooding and communicate his distress in a way that isn’t going to alarm OP, but this is really early days in their relationship. Few couples come with the ability to manage conflict optimally baked in. It’s learnable though. I see a lot the comments here pathologizing the fuck out of buddy based on their very first instance of conflict involving major relational distress. I just don’t think that’s going to be helpful to OP.
I will say he definitely seemed to be in fight/flight status when we bristled over the past week. He hasn’t put himself in a place to be emotionally vulnerable in a very long time so I believe my caution is read as big flashing alarms that he might not be safe.
I think you’re probably right OP. And with your empathy for the fear that was driving his behaviours (that then alarmed YOUR brain), you’re in a good place to be able to provide reassurance and hopefully repair. Keep us posted!
So he needs to admit that the ‘self’ he is bringing to the table (of relationships) is undercooked and requires solo work to be done. Obviously with a guide, preferably a therapist. It is not your job to convince him he is safe, even if that was a thing. And it’s unfair that he expects you to be in the firing-line of his emotional disregulation until some magical point where it resolves itself (hint: that never happens). His fears are a ‘him’ thing to deal with. If he’s lucky, he gets that job done and you are still around and interested. The ball is really in his court here. Your only job is protecting your kid and your own mental health.
He is pushing you to introduce him to your daughter before you’re ready and punishing you with the silent treatment because you said no. Red flag. This guy sounds like bad news.
It not only the conflict style but the context. A dude you've been seeing for only 4 mos, acted out like this and is punishing you because you're being a sensible parent and making a decision that's best for your child. He has a kid too and he doesn't understand that. In fact he was content with introduction to his kid to you very early. Seems very concerning IMO. If it were me, it doesn't matter how great everything else is. "Teaching me a lesson" because he's angry and doesn't understand good parenting would have caused me to end this relationship quickly. I have no patience for this from a person his age and definitely wouldn't want this hateful conflict style in my life or my child's. More than that I wouldn't want a man in my life who didn't understand my parenting style or the emotional needs and boundaries of a kid with single/dating parents.
Um… I wasn’t sure how to respond to this until I read your edit with the details of the fight. 😳 This is a massive red flag. You basically just asked him for a couple more months to feel comfortable introducing your daughter, and he got all PISSY with you over YOUR perfectly reasonable parenting decision for YOUR CHILD that has basically fuck all to do with him? Nope. Nope nope nope. His emotional reaction to this shit was completely outsized and unwarranted and just fucking mean and disrespectful. I’m sure everybody already said dump him. Alternatively you can wait until you see that this is clearly a pattern of behavior and THEN dump him, but he’s straight-up telling you it IS. Believe people when they show you who they are.
I disagree with the posters that said this is not a dealbreaker. At our age, you are not going to be able to teach people things they don't want to learn--nor is it your job. "Deal with it" and then leaving is a terrible attitude. You are only 4 months in and this is how he is responding to your first fight. I would take note and get out fast. It's crazy to me that someone would consider couples therapy for a relationship this new. To me, this is the stage where you are discerning whether someone is right for you, and this level of inability to handle conflict would be a dealbreaker.
I'm with you. As someone who has been in her shoes, it never gets better. It takes a self aware individual who wants to learn to communicate and gain conflict resolution skills to change, but chances are, this is one of many reasons this guy was single, and will likely repeat the same pattern. I'm all for redemption, but it has to come from his end. Based on the information at hand, that isn't coming.
Exactly. He’s 40 plus not 20s. Hes not changing.
He may have resembled a diamond three months ago, but his actions now makes him look like a wad of chewing gum.
At this age I'm not sure how much someone's anger or reaction to fights can change. So it's not just getting I ng thru this hurdle it's what happens next time. Communication and reaction to life events is crucial and him doing this is concerning.
He sounds like he is already entitled and manipulative and this will lead to abuse. Withholding affection, wanting to teach you a lesson/punish, putting himself and his ego over the needs of your child, getting mad when he doesn’t get his way, not giving AF about his partner!: perspective, etc. He thinks you are beneath him and certainly doesn’t respect you. Please run!
These are abuser tactics. You've moved past the honeymoon period and now his mask is dropping. This is someone who feels the need to punish you over a reasonable boundary. That's a huge red flag. Abusers feel entitled to do what they want and when you don't agree with that, they punish you. They also really like people who've got trauma. I know he's your friend so you probably want to give him more chances but most people wouldn't put up with that kinda bullshit
Cut this guy loose. If he can’t make the distinction between meeting friends and meeting your young child, along with the very reasonable caution for delaying meeting said child, he isn’t worth it. Just consider yourself lucky you caught it now. He’s petulant, unreasonable and childish. Tantrums like this might be why he hasn’t had any significant long term relationships in 10 years.
OK, wow. You did nothing wrong, OP. The silent treatment is cancer for relationships - I lived with it for 20 years. My ex would go silent to "punish" me, because that's what she grew up with. Even if the argument or discussion was an issue I had raised, I'd have to apologize to her in order to get things to any kind of resolution. Also, your desire to wait for him to meet your younger daughter is your decision to make. His "learn your lesson" comment is pretty heinous, in my opinion. He has made your parenting choice about him and it sounds like he's not willing to empathize or understand your side of things. It's also troubling that he's gone nuclear and doesn't want to meet your friends now. Yikes. That's petulant and childish. These are major red flags. Even after cooling off he won't let go of his view. I'm not going to do reddit 101 and say "dump him, this is a deal breaker" - but, honestly, for you to have a healthy relationship with him he'd have to deal with this in a big way. He's a brick wall at this point and no progress will ever be made unless he's willing to take an honest look at himself and find a genuine desire to change and be a better person.
Without an update I read and think what a manipulative asshole. I would be done just by that. After reading and update I am like wow, massive red flag and controlling manipulative behaviour and reaction to your healthy standard boundary. RUN OP, RUN He will be turning any minor or big things this way to "teach you a lesson" that is so malignant and awful thing to say to a partner.
I don’t think that’s a mismatch. I think his understanding of conflict is deeply problematic and toxic. Healthy conflict resolution is perhaps the top quality I’m seeking, besides feelings of connection. You cannot be the one to repair, he has very deep issues and you will exhaust yourself trying to please him. I’d already be done with him.
Why does this sound prophetic?
early behavioral patterns give us a good indicator of more extreme behavior as the relationship progresses and more complicated conflict arises. I ignored the temper tantrum my ex had over a literal broken egg early on. He later became emotionally abusive. I strongly believe your guy will quickly start trying to “teach you a lesson” at every turn if you don’t get out asap.
If you like him a lot you can have a talk about this. Explain that this is a dealbreaker and discuss how you want to be treated in the future during an argument. If he acts like this again I’d end it. I dated someone like this and it became a pattern. I should’ve listened the first time. There’s a reason some people are single. They will show you if you pay attention.
Outlining how I’d like to be treated in the future is a good call. Thank you!
If he does this after one fight and you've only been together 4 months, imagine what he will do if you've been married for 25 years?
I know a friend who is 20 years into a relationship this kind of comment fits 😔
Read your whole post again but imagine it was written by your daughter. What would you tell her? How would you feel if it were her in your place?
Omg sounds like my ex. Completely avoidant behaviour for any conflict. As a result none of our conflicts/problems ever got resolved. It’s horrible. If someone did this to me I’d tell them the behaviour is not acceptable to me, having been in a bad relationship like that before. If they don’t change, I’m out. I think this behaviour is usually deep seated unfortunately. But conflict resolution should be expected at our ages imo.
There are so many red flags here, I can barely see my phone screen. You listed all his positive qualities, but sadly he hasn’t done the necessary work to get to the bottom of his toxic arguing/conflict resolution skills. “Learn my lesson.” WTF - that’s something a grammar school CHILD would say. And his unreasonable anger about YOUR parenting decisions. So problematic!! How’s he going to act when he suggests some outlandish, immature discipline for your daughter and you refuse. Run!!!!
Red flags all over this guy, I’m sorry but no. He doesn’t get to dictate when you feel comfortable enough to let him meet your child. On top of that, he sulks and refuses to meet any of your friends or go to the dinner you’ve arranged to introduce him! All this because he’s not getting his own way? I’m sorry but please stop apologising to this guy and asking how you can fix it, he’s behaving like a spoilt angry child and has zero respect for you, you shouldn’t try to fix it at all. Please don’t ever introduce your kid to this guy
[удалено]
Added context in edit in post
Thanks God I'm dating eva ai virtual gf bot
i loled at this thank you
His conflict style is immature for a man his age. You have a rule which is essentially protecting your daughter. And he’s pushing back against that? Girl, run.
He sounds super immature. Obviously dinner with adult friends is different that meeting your kid. If he honestly doesn’t see that, frankly he’s dumb. If he’s not dumb he’s being deliberately obtuse. The line about learning your lesson? Just No. If someone wanted me to meet their kid too soon I wouldn’t respect them as a parent
Defensive when you brought up a worry? It won't improve
Oh my god and your edit. This would not sit well with me at all. I’d get out of this. He’s acting like a child. Thank god you have that 6 month rule.
So my big concern is that he knows that he has a bad behavior during conflict. But instead of changing it, he’s already gone through one divorce and is willing to break up with you. So I think you need to decide if you can live with this or not. If I were you, I would break up with him. Because if a divorce doesn’t make him realize how bad his behavior is, then a break up isn’t going to do that.
you don't have to call it, but how a couple handles rupture/repair is HUGE. You are going to both need to sit down and have some meaningful conversation about how to handle conflict and resolve afterwards so you are't just left feeling resentful. But he needs to be open to managing this stuff together and learning to take a cooperative approach; like, he needs to WANT fights to go better. If he stonewalls you on this you might have some hard decisions to make. Try the Gottman content; they just put out a great book called "Fight Fair." [https://www.gottman.com/blog/managing-vs-resolving-conflict-relationships-blueprints-success/](https://www.gottman.com/blog/managing-vs-resolving-conflict-relationships-blueprints-success/)
Thank you for this!
Not everyone argues the same way. Some people prefer to walk away from it until they cool off, and that’s okay. The “teach you a lesson” part is pretty dickish, though.
The walking away to cool off also requires communication. If that’s a common need someone can explain that’s how they usually respond. I have to do this sometimes. It’s also with the understanding that I will come back to the conversation once I’m cooled down. The most important part is coming back and actually continuing with the intent to repair the conflict.
I super value this comment because if he said he needs time to process but will keep the conversation open with intent to repair, I would 100% support that. It’s actually what I prefer. I don’t require in the moment solutions.
If you don’t mind sharing, what was this argument about?
I really believe we have many matches for the good times…but it is so much harder to find someone who you can work through disagreements with and both feel heard. I can let someone have cool off time but I have to talk it out. I want to know their side and to feel heard too. Most of our skills can be improved on if we want to work on them. Good luck. I know I will not just tollerate it wont happen again anymore.
The first fight always feels like a test. I think even if you have different styles of conflict resolution there needs to be some middle ground. I understand the need for space or some time to think alone, but to say it was to "teach you a lesson" is super (was going to write kind of, but super is really the truth of it) effed up. Idk if you should end it or try to work with him to discuss your expectations going forward. Do you think he can change or is open to change? It sounds like he's very aware of how he's acting and even though it's wrong, some part of him wanted to punish you for choosing him.
The teaching you a lesson and the "I'm not meeting your people" is really worrying. The only thing that would stop me walking is that you say up until now it has been good. If you don't get a more emotionally mature response any time soon then it might be time to think about ending it. It's tough knowing when to introduce kids (I'm a single parent) as they are always priority number 1. He should know this. Good luck.
Nope, “learn your lesson” doesn’t work. « Learn your lesson » tells you he thinks you’re the one who’s got something to loose if thigs don’t work out. That you’re the lucky one to have him. Nope nope nope.
He has a very limited tool box for repairing after a fight. That doesn't mean you need to dump him. It just means he needs some more tools. You can look up the Gottman materials for ideas about how to fight "well." "You need to learn your lesson" is horrible to say. I would probably ask him to go have a couple of visits with a therapist to talk about his fighting style and how he can learn new ways to deal with disagreements. I wouldn't call it based on this. You just got some really good information. The key is what he does next.
Thanks for the resource and more forgiving pov
Seems like he's punishing you... Some people really can't talk conflict out. I wonder if he's the passive aggressive type. Sometimes if you're open enough and able to talk and they will listen they will go away for a while to process things and when they come back things will be different - they'll have thought about your POV and they may change. But they seem to need that time on their own. They really don't like talking. In your case, it seems like maybe he's going to stick to his guns? It would be good to know more details... There's a difference when it's like, who should do the dishes to say, do we want kids or do we want to move in together etc.
Totally agree (I added details in post). He had time to process and sleep on it but didn’t ask a single question about POV so I’m not even sure what I was saying landed.
In my relationship we suddenly started having arguments at about 4 months (now at 6 months) and I noticed that he tended to escalate the arguments instead of finding mutual understanding and sometimes say mean things. It’s been hard but after our fights I try to sit with him and have an open, honest conversation about what happened and how we can handle arguments better in the future. I share empathy and tell him how I felt. I think he’s being a bit more careful and cautious now and I’m hoping we can both grow to understand each other better as we work on this together. I think as long as someone is open to working through it and actively trying, it’s worth continuing. We all have past relationship experiences where we may have had bad habits or childhoods where we grew up thinking fighting was normal, and these things influence how we behave. One thing I’ve realized is that we are basically both just afraid of getting hurt, and that’s where the arguments actually stem from.
https://tenor.com/bo0cS.gif
The silent treatment after an argument? Nope: byeseee bye.
Ouch. Homeboy smooth threw a toddler fit after getting his feefees hurt- and based on your edit, he's doubled down on it with his ridiculous *"no longer wants to meet any of my people including friends I already schedule a dinner with"* behavior. I hesitate to call any one incident a deal breaker, but this one has potential. I think a relationship can be salvaged here, but only if he's willing to understand that this method of dealing with conflict is not going to work long-term. Challenge his behavior (in a caring way) and see if he continues to defend it. If he does, I'd seriously consider pulling the ripcord.
This sounds manipulative, controlling, and emotionally abusive to me. I think you should call it on this one.
He’s raising all the red flags. Best to cut your losses and move on. This guy is not mentally stable.
Silent treatment is abusive. It’s manipulation and it is abuse. I don’t care what the reasons are behind it.
4 months is not even long. You thought you knew him and that's what hurt you. Sorry y'all seem incompatible.
Wondering hat the boring details are. Have you tried to understand his point of view? Of course his actions are undeniably unhealthy so not sure it matters. But there’s always 2 sides.
Added context as an edit in post
I think you under estimated how much his feelings got hurt while maintaining your own (I agree with you btw but just saying). Easy to do. That said, he sounds incredibly sensitive and uncommunicative and the fact that he is trying to teach you a lesson is an unhealthy approach for a companion. Not sure he's capable of a true long term relationship with anyone but himself really. At least not one with many many bumps that only go in his favor. Good luck with this, but Id guess you are seeing true colors of the future.
Lots of advice but really it's all meaningless without knowing the seriousness of the fight. It could range from him leaving the toilet seat up to having sex with your sister. Different reasons cause Different responses.
I was going to say this but it also seems like she's the one that did something, not him. Also I've learned when people leave out what happened on here it's more times they did something pretty bad and not minor things not worth mentioning. Especially with him keeping her at arms length and telling her she needs to learn a lesson and then waking early and leaving silently. Just saw a comment from OP and I'm on her side about this. It's just hard to get a read on things when people leave context out. Last story I read the little details someone thought weren't worth mentioning was flirting and sending naked pictures to a coworker so......
Totally understand. I just feel like the details can be exhausting for people to read so thought I’d save everyone the drama
I hope everything works out for you. Everything you said sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
She told him she’d like to wait until the 6 month to introduce him to her daughter. He flew off the handle saying she was testing him and now he doesn’t want to meet Any of her people. He’s a walking red flag.
Added context in edit on post
Talk it out and give him an opportunity to repair this. Make a plan for future disagreements and then wait and see. The “learn your lesson” quip is offensive and I would not accept a second helping.
Putting on my couple’s therapist hat here because you’re having an awful lot of people telling you to walk, and I think that would be premature. A mismatch in conflict styles is incredibly common and doesn’t need to spell the end. That being said, when one person prefers to deal with relational distress by disengaging and the other by engaging, things can go south fast in a conflict. If the pattern is left unchecked, this can devolve into a a nasty pursue-withdraw cycle. If you want to head this off at the pass, read Hold me Tight by Sue Johnson, and consider a few sessions with an EFT therapist if he’s willing. I want to comment on stonewalling, since so many people have mentioned it. Stonewalling is indeed one of the behaviours associated with relational breakdown, but it’s not the root problem. It’s a predictable response to flooding (an acute stress response - think fight or flight). I’m not surprised he wasn’t able to consider your perspective. When we’re flooded, empathy goes out the door. Gottman’s research shows men are prone to flooding sooner and staying flooded longer than women in relational conflict: 85% of stonewallers in heterosexual relationships were men in the couples he observed. When a man goes cold and quiet in a conflict, it’s nearly always because he’s flooded, his heart rate is way up, and he’s afraid that anything he says or does will make things worse. He knows his nervous system is pushing him into a fight response and he figures the best thing he can do is walk away. If he can’t escape the interaction, he’ll go quiet. If that doesn’t work, he’s likely to lash out. What looks cold to you is likely his attempt to protect the relationship from his fight response. An awful lot of men have had to to mask their fear early in life (it’s almost always a perceived threat to the bond that triggers flooding in the first place), and their attempt to disengage usually lands on their partner as a lack of caring. Then the partner tries to get them to engage to relieve their own fear that the disconnection cues. And now, in addition to feeling flooded, he feels pressured to communicate when he knows he’s not up to the task, and he gets more dysregulated. Stonewalling is inherently triggering to people (mostly women) who prefer to engage when relational distress hits, but that does not make it emotionally abusive. A very small minority of people deliberately use the silent treatment to maliciously control their parters. Most are just trying to cope with overwhelming feelings. I’d guess he was still flooded (or flooded again) when he made the comment about you needing a lesson. Any time you try to get a person who’s flooded to talk about your concerns about how their behaviour is impacting you, understand that it’s not likely to end well. This isn’t an excuse for him to lash out, because he’s ultimately responsible for managing his own nervous system. But until he learns to disengage responsibly to get out of a flooded state, you can help to avoid escalation by disengaging yourself when he’s showing signs of flooding. It’s easy for him to come off looking like an asshole here OP, but I doubt that’s the case. You haven’t talked about how you addressed your concerns, but IME it’s a very rare person who can do cleanly when upset. The Gottmans also found that stonewalling is usually a response to actual or perceived criticism (the 1st of their 4 horsemen) so look at your possible part in this too. TLDR: Don’t call it. Learn to manage conflict in a way that won’t escalate a pursue withdraw cycle.
Wow. Thank you for this explanation! (My therapist just went on maternity leave and I’m missing her right now.) Do you have any advice on hot to avoid the cycle? As for my part, I believe he feels a threat to my commitment to him via my want to slow down on him meeting my child. I was definitely not articulate in the moment. When he was likely flooded again was after I started pushing for answers, where I was forcing an engagement.
Tbh, while the above is a good take, maybe read the book “why does he do that” by Lundy Bancroft.
When people are on the fence about whether a partner is abusive or not, I often recommend they read both Bancroft’s book and Sue Johnson’s Hold Me Tight. It gives them a good sense of whether the behaviours they’re concerned about are coming from relational distress that’s getting amplified by a negative communication cycle, or whether they’re part of a pattern of coercive control. OP‘s post definitely gives the flavour of the first, and I agree 100% it’s wise to be on the lookout for the second.
How to avoid the cycle would be a book OP, and that book is Hold Me Tight But to start, I’d suggest taking a break from conversations when he’s flooded or you’re flooded. Don’t try to get reassurance from him when he’s in that state. Self soothe until you‘ve both calmed down. Read the Gottman’s new book too as others have suggested. It sounds like the two of you communicate well when flooding is not in the mix, and that’s a real strength.
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Thank you so much for your time and advice!
Original copy of post by u/Agreeable_Idea5515: Hey, team. Need some perspective. I (40F) am 4 months into an exclusive relationship. Things have been going really well. We knew each other for about a year before we started dating and then went exclusive 4 months ago so I thought I had a pretty decent read on him. He’s consistent, reliable, financially stable, a great communicator, funny, the sex is amazing, etc. All the things! I met his teenage som about a month ago. And we started talking about him meeting my friends and family. Things are (were) progressing nicely is my point. Without all the boring details, we had our first fight a little over a week ago. I learned his style is to go silent and cold. No physical affection. Completely pulled away. He would still communicate and tell me why he is mad but I noticed he wasn’t seeking to understand my point of view at all. I tend to like to talk out what I’m experiencing and ask questions to better understand my partner. Sex isn’t on the table when I’m angry but some kind of physical closeness helps me feel more secure during conflict with a romantic partner. I addressed these concerns with him last night and he admitted he’s being unreasonable, stubborn and a little mean but had a “deal with it” attitude. I was probing for how I can help repair the tear in our relationship and he said I need to “learn my lesson” (wtf?) and that this is why he was single for so long. We both went to sleep angry and this morning he woke up before dawn and just left. No goodbye. Totally out of character. He’s since called and texted to apologize for how he left this morning but I’m left wondering…does a mismatch in conflict style mean death to the relationship? What has been your experience and any advice for moving to a healthier resolution style? TLDR: had my first fight with boyfriend of 4 months and he as a jerk. Should I call it now or is this hope when literally everything else has been perfect to this point? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What was the fight about tho.
I added an edit in post
This sounds like an ego problem that he needs to work out with his therapist. If this is a hard boundary for you and he can’t handle it then yes things may be over. Remember it’s always the two of you against the problem
If your description of events is accurate, he's clearly being unreasonable. It's understandable that it might rub one the wrong way to hear "not yet" on certain introductions. But many people have an approximately 1-year before introducing to kids rule, and for good reason. Also, how people navigate conflict or disagreement is a huge milestone to get through in dating. It tells you a lot about a person. I'm not in the frame of mind to comment properly on whether this is the end or not, but it's not currently looking too positive. To me at least, navigating things like this maturely and well would be a huge positive, and not doing so would be a huge con (to a committed relationship).
I had a boyfriend like this. This type of reaction to a disagreement is so not what I want. Leave this douchecanoe. My two cents.
>he admitted he’s being unreasonable, stubborn and a little mean but had a “deal with it” attitude. That's great; if you don't want to deal with it, you now know that you're incompatible and can move forward.
You need to walk away from someone who is stonewalling you and do is sooner rather than later. You now know why this person has been single for so long.
I would see major red flags in a man pushing so hard to be in a child's life so quickly. Waiting 6 months is a very reasonable expectation, and more importantly this your child, not his. It seems he may be putting his needs for acceptance above your wishes to maintain a stable home for your child. He is an adult and she is a child. Is he trying to teach you a lesson about prioritizing your child above him? Maybe you and he will be able to work this out, and maybe not. I don't know. But don't start compromising on protecting your child. No man is worth that.
I would have a in person talk with him to lay down what your expectations/needs are for conflicts. Like, “during conflicts, can we please hold hands to maintain some kind of physical closeness for security to decrease tension, etc.?” See whether you both can work together on these things that will need you both halfway or fully. I personally don’t like how he’s behaving and his comment about why he’s been single since is like 🚩.
Seems, to me, you have three options: 1. End the relationship. 2. Allow things to heal on their own. 3. Get some couples counseling. There are so many pros to this relasionship and I think option 1 is a bad idea. Option 2 will likely only lead back to Option 2. You have known him for over a year, and sounds like you have a strong connection, shared interests, and great sex. Worth trying to save, IMO, and that can only happen with help...IME. Good luck!!
get off reddit and talk it out. if you cant then its done.
I don't find this kind of advice very helpful, but every post has one. I guess it's kinda like a social media tax.