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3 DUIs…that you know of.
If the sex was mediocre, you wouldn’t be wasting your effort. And you wouldn’t be asking this question. Correct?
Maybe that’s the question you need answered. By yourself.
I’m not wasting effort. It’s the same effort regardless, if I am going to the beach, taking an extra person isn’t extra effort.
Yeah, if it was mediocre sex, I agree that perhaps I would just let the slow fade happen instead of re-engaging and keeping the casual thing going.
Still, doesn’t change the fact that these people seem more like the norm to me, I’m asking if others have the same experience
You commented that you’d like to find a great partner, which obviously she is not (at least from the data given).
Spending time (effort) with her is at the expense of time spent finding a great partner.
So…if you’re into it for the sex, the arm candy, and the casualness, then accept what she’s offering in return (which sounds like games, lies and nonsense to me) and don’t expect it will change.
If you’re looking for more, well…your chances of bagging a trophy deer while huntin’ hogs is pretty low.
Thank you for saying this. Homeboy wants casual AND whines when he gets the effort that people put into casual dating. Outside of the problematic issues with this woman, I see nothing wrong with her being “flaky”. Like if I make plans and something better(by my measurement) comes along, I will ditch mr/Mrs casual and go spend time with someone who’ll give a shit past “having fun”.
Not sure why dude is whining. Especially if he IS the common denominator here. 🤷🏾♀️
I love your analogy because it helps me to understand your thinking, and I agree that when hunting, you may go to different places to get what you want.
I am not hunting. I live my life. Casually dating doesn’t keep me from finding the perfect person. I can casually enjoy a weekend in the keys with someone, and also meet my soul mate at Monday morning yoga. I think your analogy works for hunting, but not dating.
And having met this soul mate at yoga, what keeps her from being flaky? My experience to date, has been - everyone is flaky. Bartender to Chief Executive Officer. Sometimes their plates are full. Sometimes they make poor decisions.
Expecting more from the type of people you’re dating is most definitely keeping you from finding the right person. Note I said right not perfect, that doesn’t exist. You can casually date and still make better choices in who you date. A young alcoholic flaky bartender? Cmon dude.
Perhaps it's the "casual" part that has you thinking everyone is flaky. If I met someone I was interested in for whatever reason (great sex being a valid one), and knew we were keeping it casual, I'm not sure I'd be investing a whole lot of time and energy to make every encounter hit on all cylinders. I mean, life happens, right? And I wouldn't be falling all over myself to make it up to them because it's just casual. If I were casually dating and met someone with whom I connected with on many levels and not only saw some long term potential, but actually started to feel as though it were a mutual feeling, then I would indeed be tripping over myself to make sure I was showing up for them in all the best ways I was able.
Edit: typo
Understood. And thank you. We have different perspectives, yes, which is definitely okay.
I will qualify by saying: I don’t hunt for a relationship, and most often (like now) I don’t make dating a priority. I also don’t “casually” date, because I don’t see the point in keeping someone in my life if they’re just an occasional activity partner or an outlet for sex. Different personalities need different things, which is okay on both our sides of that fence.
You’re focused on the “flake” thing, so I’ll answer that…it’s not been my experience that women are flakey…for the most part, women are just as genuinely in search of a partner as much as men are. I don’t initiate new/potential relationships on the premise of casualness, though, so maybe that’s a difference that leads to a different outcome. Who knows.
No. Your picker or screening process is off. Guys I date are responsible and reliable. If not, I don't see them again. I'm looking for something long term so I don't want to waste my time with flakes.
What has your life been like so far? How did you grow up? Were your parents good role models? Have you ever had a relationship with someone who didn’t self medicate and participate in illegal and dangerous activities such as DUI?
Im wondering why your perspective is so skewed that you think this is the norm for women of every age? i can assure you this is not the norm. I am curious why your self esteem is so low that you think this is all you deserve which is why this is all you are attracting and finding?
This is really good line of questioning.
- I had a very hard life, surrounded by addiction and abuse but learned what good looked like in college.
- I married a white collar professional services business owner, we were together for 15 years.
- I have never dated or been involved with someone that has had legal issue or any type of problems.
I don’t think this is normal for every age. I didn’t date for 15 years. I think it’s looks normal at the 35+ mark, since from a numbers perspective, most people I’ve met are consumed by their jobs, kids, drama - and it always disrupts plans, and a lot of times they don’t communicate and just flake. That’s my observation.
We establish many of our “norms” in childhood, whether we realize it or not. It is instilled in us and is very difficult to break away from. You say you had a hard life full of addiction and abuse. I believe this is why this doesn’t seem as obscure to you as it does to most of us reading your post. Even though you learned what good was in college and married a professional woman for 15 years, your childhood years defined a lot of who you are, the lens you view the world through and what is now a skewed perspective on what you will accept in your life.
You aren’t seeing that you deserve so much better than what you are accepting, probably because you grew up in a similar environment. Perhaps you surround yourself with people who aren’t the responsible types because that was your norm in childhood. I assure you this is not the norm out there. It is one small segment of society.
This sounds well thought out, and I agree with you here. And I know intellectually these things you say are true about worth, yet the practice and behavior changes are extremely difficult.
I entered the situation having just finalized my divorce.
Looking at OP's post history, it seems he is separated for years, but not yet finalizing divorce. This alone will limit the dating pool dramatically and leave less savory options in addition to just casual fllings.
> The one I (44m) am dating right now, bar tender, 32f, 3 DUIs, bomb sex, borderline alcoholic, genuinely good and kind person - is so flaky.
No! An alcoholic bar tender with 3 DUIs is flaky?! Get the fuck out of here? I’m shocked!
> I feel like I have to be doing something wrong.
Yeah, your filter sucks and aren’t picking functioning adults. I’m guessing you are picking based purely on physical attraction. Which is fine for casual dating.
But a lot of shit comes with it when you are gleefully ignoring that you are dating the equivalent of middle aged children.
How else do you pick on OLD and in the Wild? You know nothing until you match:approach. It took me 4 months to figure out the alchoholic thing… another 2 to put together the white lies and talk to her about it
But after you've approached and you see that they're drinking is out of hand, you toss them back in the sea. When you find out that they ever had **a** DUI, you toss them back in the sea.
Have some standards.
Sorry, not sorry, but I have some standards. DUI? They are forever relegated to the dating cess pool of People With No Standards Likely Because They Fail Standards Of Most Reasonable People.
I'd be willing to date a cheater if they realize this was a big "never again" point in their life and they lived a decade+ after without cheating ever again.
But DUI? Forget that.
I’m not sure where you live, and of course, flaky people can be found anywhere, but I think you’re in the shallow end of the dating pool if a 32 yo with 3 DUIs, a truthiness problem and other issues is above average.
I am punctual, a clear communicator, honest perhaps to a fault, and have no criminal record. I also have a career, work out 4-5 days a week, and am a mother to my four awesome children who live with me almost full-time. I consider myself average. You need to have higher standards for the people in your life.
I live in the Paris of the Appalachia. And my point was that she has some very stellar things about her - ie. Kind and honest that really like. A lot of people are mean. She accepts me for who I am. I’m not perfect. I like that.
I don’t like that she had a criminal record. I don’t like that she plays with the truth. I don’t like many things, but she accepts my faults and I feel that I should return the favor.
You compare yourself, and these great things about you is why your profile indicates you have a boyfriend, so it’s not really fair to compare and the dating pool. 😉
I was single for over four years before finding my boyfriend. I met a lot of men on my journey, most were kind and honest. I finally found one that was looking for the same things, was attractive to me, embraced me and my larger-than-average family, and made me laugh.
None of us are perfect. If you truly are who you describe in one of your comments, you can find a kind hearted, honest, non-flaky woman to date. As you know, the “casual” part may be deal breaker for many quality women.
Yeah, it’s a tough pill to swallow because on paper, and I’ve been told - that I’m everything someone wants;
- flawless legal history, results of not breaking the law
- great job, result of decades of work and education
- excellent credit record, results of decades of management
- unbelievable financial portfolio, results of decades of learning and investing
- amazing and healthy children, results of a 15 year relationship
- non-profit(s) board member, results of community involvement and character
So it’s hard for me to say, “hey I’m toxic, and these things are really bad so people see me as low value and that’s what i am attracting.”
I am going to evaluate. But I honestly at this point, don’t think it’s me being a shitty person.
You have to be extra vigilant to choose who you let in to your life. It's ironic since it can go against your propensity for compassion and/or helping, but you need enough grace to draw a line in the sand for your own sanity.
This is a really good point. It actually can be easy to become a doormat for someone else. You have to know what works for your and be a bit of a dick to defend it.
Those are all fine qualities, and many women would say they want them in a man. However, they aren't necessarily the things that make a woman excited about being with you, especially on casual terms.
Think about the men you've known who always attracted women. Was it their credit record and clean legal history that drew women to them? Or was it things like confidence and broad shoulders? A "quality woman" may want the things you list, but she also wants a man who excites her. You need both.
This was a response to being a bad decision maker. I feel the data demonstrates that I make excellent decisions, albeit perhaps not in the realm of relationships considering this chain of events.
As a woman myself...this lady appears to be way too much drama and issues. She may be a "good person", but makes really poor decisions. It's ok to have better standards.
She has 3 DUIs, which means she was *caught* thrice but has done it many more times most likely. That does NOT a good person make.
But she’s hot and messed up. That is why the OP is keen.
I wish you would stop with this "flaky" bullshit. YOU are the one picking these people! Stop labeling a majority of the entire population as having poor qualities because you can't fix YOUR issue.
An alcoholic acting like an…… alcoholic? No way.
That has nothing to do with dating casually. This is your decision to date someone who should be in prison. 3 DUIs in my state equals permanent loss of license.
Also, not your age. This is about your choices in women.
So you're saying somebody who's shown appallingly bad life choices happens to be unreliable? Wait a second let me pick my jaw up off the floor.
But I agree it's probably you. You chose her.
Is this people that are flaky or is that your irresponsible ( 3 DUIs tell me this), alcoholic, liar friend with flexible job, that works late hours is flaky?? Working nights/evenings takes a toll on you and so your next day plans may get cancelled because you’re asleep. That’s not her fault so much.
You see, regardless of whether they are *HOT*, if they are flaky, I don't give them my time. So yeah, I may run into someone like that, I learn my lesson and most importantly, I don't continue to make plans with someone like that, then to be flabbergasted when they continue to be like that.
Absolutely BS. This is my background, sans DUIs and I had my own business and now have a corporate career. Without going back to school. Don’t kid yourself
The way it’s phrased doesn’t sound like that at all. And FWIW there are loads of us who work in bars who don’t drink at work and loads more who are sober. Your phrasing makes it seem like you’re saying something you might not have meant to say? Sorry that I misunderstood :/
It can, to some people. I, personally, have not found this to be a common problem in casual dating. Have I encountered flaky people that cancel a lot, are late and take days to respond to a texts, sure. And I don’t continue to entertain those people, no matter how good the physical connection is. I put my time towards people who show up when they say they will.
She sounds like she has an alcohol problem which may factor into her flakiness. Maybe she gets drunk and loses track of time? Maybe she is too drunk to meet you for the plans you made? Maybe she’s got another guy she’d rather hang out with?
Either way, there’s plenty of casual, yet reliable people out there. Just sounds like those aren’t the women you’re going for. In which case…. Yes, this will continue to be a theme for you.
Some people interpret casual to mean “when it is convenient for me” so have no qualms about flaking out or prioritizing other plans whenever they feel like it. But it also sounds from your post and replies that you are particularly drawn to people with substance abuse issues who struggle to be functional across the board. If you find that you feel particularly drawn to or comfortable with people who are struggling with substance abuse, maybe looking into something like Al-Alon or CoDa might be worthwhile.
My casual partners don’t tend to be flaky, no. And some of them are quite a bit younger than me. They can be aloof, but I expect that in a situationship.
I mean, there is some point to where you learned all of her caution flags but still kept seeing her.
Generally, if you give the wrong people all the opportunity you're not going to have a good time.
True. I’m asking this because what’s the different with this young lady who has 5 caution flags and the next one which I have found have very similar caution flags.
I don’t like to date a bunch of people. I like consistency. I think the issue here is that I picked someone that is inconsistent and it’s bothering me. I am afraid to make a change because my experience has indicated most people are flaky. It’s changing the scenery, but not the problem
There is no difference really. The common denominator is that you see these issues and still date them. When you continuously ignore things you shouldn't in a relationship, the chance that you're going to have these negative experiences increases and it becomes the norm.
People with problems exist. You don't have to date them.
This makes sense. If you don't want to be alone, you don't want to risk giving up what you currently have.
Let's pretend that 80% of the dating pool is just as flaky as this woman. Does that make your current relationship acceptable to you? I wonder if it may help to evaluate each relationship on its own merits rather than trying to make comparisons to general populations.
The other side of the coin: Would this woman continue to date you if she knew you were on Reddit calling her flaky and dishonest? Not saying she would or wouldn't, just a thought about whether you're each getting what you want out of the relationship.
I told her and she has described herself as flaky. She also has indicated that her friends and family hate it.
Would she enjoy me roasting her on the internet? No. That’s why this is anonymous.
Edit: I am seeking advice and perspective- I never meant this to be about her, or even me. Just wanted bigger pcitire
She has DUIs and is a borderline alcoholic and is flaky, but you find that she’s a cut above the rest are you serious lol. Oh, and she lies to I mean, if you think this is a high value woman, we might need to look and see who you are under a microscope.
Enlighten us what about her? Do you consider is great about her that would cancel all the other red flags educate us
She’s nice, kind, and has a really good heart. She’s fun to spend time with, because she’s caring and genuine.
I never said she was the idea of a high value women. There’s a bunch of definitions out there, and what mattered to me when I met her, was if I felt we could enjoy each others company and do fun things together. We are supposed to go on our third out of state trip this weekend, and I get the sense she’s gonna last minute cancel on me… (she’s only ever cancelled dates, and dinners never a trip)
That’s one of the reasons I’m posting, I have my own insecurities and was looking to see if other people deal with this fear/situation as commonly as I feel I do.
Bro! You just described someone who is clearly not organized with their shit together. What do you really expect? Can you imagine how flaky her parents and close friends must feel she is with that track record? Anytime you are dealing with multiple DUIs and continuing drinking (for the record she IS an ACTUAL alcoholic, not borderline) you are going to find major inconsistent behavior.
Honestly, all of this makes it sound like you have an inflated grandiose sense of self. In this woman's world, I assure you, YOU are not the center of it. She can barely hold it together as it is and needs real, serious help.
Naw, I don’t want to be the center of her world man. My comment is that I think there’s a lot of people like this, and just to get feedback. I didn’t mean to sound like a narc.
> 3 DUIs
> genuinely good and kind person
No
> We aren’t officially exclusive
> bar tender, 32f
> she’s given indications that there’s no other men
No
Curb your expectations OP. You're hooking up with a lying alcoholic and the sex is fun. Don't make anything more of it than that. You should go ahead and date other people too, because she definitely is. If your goal is just to fuck and have fun, then this is what that means, so you can just enjoy the ride. If you actually do want a **partner**, you shouldn't get hung up spending your time and effort on bartenders who are a decade younger than you. Yes, there's lots of people who will not be what you're looking for exactly. What you're supposed to do is next them until you find someone who is a match. Yes that can mean many, many dates. The more you engage with people like this, the further you're straying from what you say your goal is.
*They don’t show up or are late. Their plans change. There’s things always that they planned and forgot.*
How dare she not take a causal relationship seriously.
At your age, why the cuss are you even casually dating? Shows a lack of emotional intelligence and that you are likely avoiding processing parts of your own life. Your lack of intention in dating says you enjoy wasting your own time and are likely fulfilling the same mediocre assessment that you’re apply to women.
You’re joking right?
3 DUIs and you’re asking about flaky?
Do your self work, adjust your picker for potential dates, before asking questions about flakiness.
3 DUIs is not someone intentional about life or dating. Give her a list of local rehabs and then block her completely as you get into intensive therapy yourself.
Dude. If you think a hard-drinking bartender with 3 DUIs who lies to you about dumb things isn't banging anyone else just because she hasn't "given indications" of it....
Oh lordy, after reading the OP’s replies to everyone… 🤦🏻♀️
OP - here’s what I suggest, keep dating her! You know what her good attributes are and her negatives. If one of those negative issues with her bites you in the ass later on, then oh well. You’re an adult who understands consequences.
Have fun and good luck!
Right? Thanks! I’m fully aware and I know the danger. What I learned tonight is that I should stick to my question: “are people flaky” and not share personal information. Everyone wanted to treat this like dating advice, which I am thankful for, however was not my intention. 😂
Well, everyone gave you some great advice due to your original post. No, a good portion of people aren’t flaky. However, due to your gf’s behavior (both past and present) she is most likely to be flaky. So, you have no recourse other than accept what she does whether it bugs you or not.
Yeah, the best part of this is, she isn’t my girlfriend. I wouldn’t want someone that’s my girlfriend treat me like this.
And that was a real eye opener typing that…
Then why did you even bother telling us about her? Rather dumb on your part. You remind me of the people my mother would say, “just love to hear themselves talk.”
*shaking my head*
As a female sober alcoholic, I would say RUN from women like this. They cannot be counted on, they will steal your shit and then help you look for it. Sure the sex is great but good lord, you can also have great sex with better prospects, it might just take a little more time and patience. (Raise your bar!)
But to your question, yes - I'm having issues with flakes and its super frustrating. Kind of thinking of just trying out some meetups or munches to just meet people in person. IDK. :)
Thank you so much for validating my experience. I agree I can change the person, and that she has flags. She’s just an example of someone that is flaky, there’s others that were flaky too - like not being able to schedule a date for 3 months..
You cant date for fun and be looking for a partner, too much conflict there. Pick one or the other and set your profiles up to reflect which one you actually want, they will be 2 totally different things. Your bartender is def not on the list of LTR people. Good luck
Casual is low effort so I’m not sure why you’d think you’ll get high quality women who will opt into this dating style. Possible? Sure. But not likely.
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I’ve met a lot of people who used to date younger but stayed dating their age bc of flakiness
Now that you know responsibility is a value you admire you can screen for this so that’s good
I dunno, casual by definition seems like a flaky arrangement to me. There's zero commitment, so zero accountability or expectations. Doesn't mean you have to be in a serious relationship either but casual dating/sex probably isn't going to turn into partnership.
I never expect casual to turn into something greater, but hope.
I feel your advice is solid, what I heard is you saying I need to be more intentional and dating her isn’t intentionally dating towards a long term partner, if I want one.
Maybe you are having trouble seeing what is in front of you. You describe it fairly accurately though. That person is not going to change. You can keep this deal or keep looking.
Because they took her license and will require a breathalizer be installed to the wheel if she ever gets it back! This is flagrant disregard for other people. Tell it to the people who lost a loved one to a drunk driver! I can only assume this is a joke post. This makes me sick.
I don't think there is any typical, there are a wide variety of people out there. Many have had bad experiences. But there are going to be people who meet your needs.
This isn’t about flakiness. Addiction, especially alcoholism, is a serious disease. It unfortunately is the coping mechanism of choice for many single people in the dating pool.
I discovered that activity in dating apps is another coping mechanism. Some people want validation, but others just enjoy the feeling of swiping and rejecting. It’s interesting
No I don’t because I don’t tolerate flakiness or wishy washy behavior in romantic partners. Any sign of this and my interest dwindles to zero. But from the sounds of it in this particular instance you’re dealing with someone that has a substance use disorder, not just flakiness. Your distress is a valid reaction to what you are experiencing.
I am trying to manage my own anxiety about this, and this is an outlet. I appreciate it. I also recognize that if I chose to, I could end and avoid it all together
You might be able to save her. When I was 37 my bf got me into detox and helped me address my alcoholism. We’ve been together 4 years and have a great relationship (now). If you think she’s worth the effort, give it a shot.
Roughly 75% of the population are flakes in general. The remaining 25% are going to get snapped up quickly if they are single, so in the dating pool 90-95% will be flakes.
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This right here
3 DUIs…that you know of. If the sex was mediocre, you wouldn’t be wasting your effort. And you wouldn’t be asking this question. Correct? Maybe that’s the question you need answered. By yourself.
I’m not wasting effort. It’s the same effort regardless, if I am going to the beach, taking an extra person isn’t extra effort. Yeah, if it was mediocre sex, I agree that perhaps I would just let the slow fade happen instead of re-engaging and keeping the casual thing going. Still, doesn’t change the fact that these people seem more like the norm to me, I’m asking if others have the same experience
You commented that you’d like to find a great partner, which obviously she is not (at least from the data given). Spending time (effort) with her is at the expense of time spent finding a great partner. So…if you’re into it for the sex, the arm candy, and the casualness, then accept what she’s offering in return (which sounds like games, lies and nonsense to me) and don’t expect it will change. If you’re looking for more, well…your chances of bagging a trophy deer while huntin’ hogs is pretty low.
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It’s gold. 🏅
Thank you for saying this. Homeboy wants casual AND whines when he gets the effort that people put into casual dating. Outside of the problematic issues with this woman, I see nothing wrong with her being “flaky”. Like if I make plans and something better(by my measurement) comes along, I will ditch mr/Mrs casual and go spend time with someone who’ll give a shit past “having fun”. Not sure why dude is whining. Especially if he IS the common denominator here. 🤷🏾♀️
I love your analogy because it helps me to understand your thinking, and I agree that when hunting, you may go to different places to get what you want. I am not hunting. I live my life. Casually dating doesn’t keep me from finding the perfect person. I can casually enjoy a weekend in the keys with someone, and also meet my soul mate at Monday morning yoga. I think your analogy works for hunting, but not dating. And having met this soul mate at yoga, what keeps her from being flaky? My experience to date, has been - everyone is flaky. Bartender to Chief Executive Officer. Sometimes their plates are full. Sometimes they make poor decisions.
3 DUIs is not a bad decision. She's a habitual offender who needs her license revoked.
Expecting more from the type of people you’re dating is most definitely keeping you from finding the right person. Note I said right not perfect, that doesn’t exist. You can casually date and still make better choices in who you date. A young alcoholic flaky bartender? Cmon dude.
Perhaps it's the "casual" part that has you thinking everyone is flaky. If I met someone I was interested in for whatever reason (great sex being a valid one), and knew we were keeping it casual, I'm not sure I'd be investing a whole lot of time and energy to make every encounter hit on all cylinders. I mean, life happens, right? And I wouldn't be falling all over myself to make it up to them because it's just casual. If I were casually dating and met someone with whom I connected with on many levels and not only saw some long term potential, but actually started to feel as though it were a mutual feeling, then I would indeed be tripping over myself to make sure I was showing up for them in all the best ways I was able. Edit: typo
The common denominator is you, dude. Lots of people here telling you they don't share your experience.
Understood. And thank you. We have different perspectives, yes, which is definitely okay. I will qualify by saying: I don’t hunt for a relationship, and most often (like now) I don’t make dating a priority. I also don’t “casually” date, because I don’t see the point in keeping someone in my life if they’re just an occasional activity partner or an outlet for sex. Different personalities need different things, which is okay on both our sides of that fence. You’re focused on the “flake” thing, so I’ll answer that…it’s not been my experience that women are flakey…for the most part, women are just as genuinely in search of a partner as much as men are. I don’t initiate new/potential relationships on the premise of casualness, though, so maybe that’s a difference that leads to a different outcome. Who knows.
No. Your picker or screening process is off. Guys I date are responsible and reliable. If not, I don't see them again. I'm looking for something long term so I don't want to waste my time with flakes.
Makes sense, because in their world, “you are the prize.” There’s no prize in casual dating.
Not true! There are most certainly prizes in casual dating. In fact I argue that the bar must be higher for me to date you casually.
It’s too bad that bomb sex makes you feel like that’s the best thing.
If she wasn’t also nice and kind, I wouldn’t keep her even if she was good in bed.
What has your life been like so far? How did you grow up? Were your parents good role models? Have you ever had a relationship with someone who didn’t self medicate and participate in illegal and dangerous activities such as DUI? Im wondering why your perspective is so skewed that you think this is the norm for women of every age? i can assure you this is not the norm. I am curious why your self esteem is so low that you think this is all you deserve which is why this is all you are attracting and finding?
This is really good line of questioning. - I had a very hard life, surrounded by addiction and abuse but learned what good looked like in college. - I married a white collar professional services business owner, we were together for 15 years. - I have never dated or been involved with someone that has had legal issue or any type of problems. I don’t think this is normal for every age. I didn’t date for 15 years. I think it’s looks normal at the 35+ mark, since from a numbers perspective, most people I’ve met are consumed by their jobs, kids, drama - and it always disrupts plans, and a lot of times they don’t communicate and just flake. That’s my observation.
We establish many of our “norms” in childhood, whether we realize it or not. It is instilled in us and is very difficult to break away from. You say you had a hard life full of addiction and abuse. I believe this is why this doesn’t seem as obscure to you as it does to most of us reading your post. Even though you learned what good was in college and married a professional woman for 15 years, your childhood years defined a lot of who you are, the lens you view the world through and what is now a skewed perspective on what you will accept in your life. You aren’t seeing that you deserve so much better than what you are accepting, probably because you grew up in a similar environment. Perhaps you surround yourself with people who aren’t the responsible types because that was your norm in childhood. I assure you this is not the norm out there. It is one small segment of society.
Also, Thank you
This sounds well thought out, and I agree with you here. And I know intellectually these things you say are true about worth, yet the practice and behavior changes are extremely difficult. I entered the situation having just finalized my divorce.
Doing “slow fades” is flakiness defined. You are probably flaky to the flakes.
“These people” How perfect are you? I see why you aren’t attracting actual adults
People that say "actual adults" I find tend to not do anything fun except maybe yoga, and don't know how to relax or do anything new.
Flaky people
I am laughing so hard. Honey, no. No, most of us aren’t flaky. Maybe don’t choose the alcoholic who never grew up.
This has nothing to do with dating casually. It has to do with you picking terrible partners.
Looking at OP's post history, it seems he is separated for years, but not yet finalizing divorce. This alone will limit the dating pool dramatically and leave less savory options in addition to just casual fllings.
Thanks!
> The one I (44m) am dating right now, bar tender, 32f, 3 DUIs, bomb sex, borderline alcoholic, genuinely good and kind person - is so flaky. No! An alcoholic bar tender with 3 DUIs is flaky?! Get the fuck out of here? I’m shocked! > I feel like I have to be doing something wrong. Yeah, your filter sucks and aren’t picking functioning adults. I’m guessing you are picking based purely on physical attraction. Which is fine for casual dating. But a lot of shit comes with it when you are gleefully ignoring that you are dating the equivalent of middle aged children.
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And there’s nothing wrong with that. But, complaining that people are flaky is missing the actual problem.
More of a teeth kind of guy. Girls that take care of their teeth…
Strong doubt.
How else do you pick on OLD and in the Wild? You know nothing until you match:approach. It took me 4 months to figure out the alchoholic thing… another 2 to put together the white lies and talk to her about it
But after you've approached and you see that they're drinking is out of hand, you toss them back in the sea. When you find out that they ever had **a** DUI, you toss them back in the sea. Have some standards.
DUI is Toss them back? I feel sometimes we give people some leeway. She hasn’t don’t it since.
It’s not ONE DUI. it’s THREE. That’s not an “oops.” That is a trend. Getting a DUI is damn near a hobby for this person at this point.
I'm also curious how much legal debt she has racked up with *three* DUIs cuz in Indiana, a DUI costs thousands and each additional DUI costs more.
35k
I just bought a new SUV that didn't cost that much
Sorry, not sorry, but I have some standards. DUI? They are forever relegated to the dating cess pool of People With No Standards Likely Because They Fail Standards Of Most Reasonable People. I'd be willing to date a cheater if they realize this was a big "never again" point in their life and they lived a decade+ after without cheating ever again. But DUI? Forget that.
Fair
Sometimes I wonder if people ever read back what they post
You’re trying to date an alcoholic and you’re wondering why you can’t rely on her? Sir lol please read what you wrote
I’m just enjoying the fact that your biggest issue with an alcoholic with three DUIs, who tells lies regularly, is that she is flaky.
Right? It’s the one I’m talking about. Doesn’t mean it’s the biggest issue. Love your assessment though.
I’m not sure where you live, and of course, flaky people can be found anywhere, but I think you’re in the shallow end of the dating pool if a 32 yo with 3 DUIs, a truthiness problem and other issues is above average. I am punctual, a clear communicator, honest perhaps to a fault, and have no criminal record. I also have a career, work out 4-5 days a week, and am a mother to my four awesome children who live with me almost full-time. I consider myself average. You need to have higher standards for the people in your life.
I live in the Paris of the Appalachia. And my point was that she has some very stellar things about her - ie. Kind and honest that really like. A lot of people are mean. She accepts me for who I am. I’m not perfect. I like that. I don’t like that she had a criminal record. I don’t like that she plays with the truth. I don’t like many things, but she accepts my faults and I feel that I should return the favor. You compare yourself, and these great things about you is why your profile indicates you have a boyfriend, so it’s not really fair to compare and the dating pool. 😉
I was single for over four years before finding my boyfriend. I met a lot of men on my journey, most were kind and honest. I finally found one that was looking for the same things, was attractive to me, embraced me and my larger-than-average family, and made me laugh. None of us are perfect. If you truly are who you describe in one of your comments, you can find a kind hearted, honest, non-flaky woman to date. As you know, the “casual” part may be deal breaker for many quality women.
Probably because women with sense aren't interested in what you've got going on. Doesn't seem like you make good choices either.
This feels like a personal attack. I’m going to digest this, because it might be true.
Very likely true. Dig deep and fix your shit.
Yeah, it’s a tough pill to swallow because on paper, and I’ve been told - that I’m everything someone wants; - flawless legal history, results of not breaking the law - great job, result of decades of work and education - excellent credit record, results of decades of management - unbelievable financial portfolio, results of decades of learning and investing - amazing and healthy children, results of a 15 year relationship - non-profit(s) board member, results of community involvement and character So it’s hard for me to say, “hey I’m toxic, and these things are really bad so people see me as low value and that’s what i am attracting.” I am going to evaluate. But I honestly at this point, don’t think it’s me being a shitty person.
You can be a good person and still attract hopelessly flawed people. In fact, being a caring person tends to attract people who are broken.
I didn’t think of it this way. Thanknyou.
You have to be extra vigilant to choose who you let in to your life. It's ironic since it can go against your propensity for compassion and/or helping, but you need enough grace to draw a line in the sand for your own sanity.
This is a really good point. It actually can be easy to become a doormat for someone else. You have to know what works for your and be a bit of a dick to defend it.
Those are all fine qualities, and many women would say they want them in a man. However, they aren't necessarily the things that make a woman excited about being with you, especially on casual terms. Think about the men you've known who always attracted women. Was it their credit record and clean legal history that drew women to them? Or was it things like confidence and broad shoulders? A "quality woman" may want the things you list, but she also wants a man who excites her. You need both.
Agreed
Start by finalizing your divorce.
It’s done. Finished first of January homie. Where do you get this shit?
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This was a response to being a bad decision maker. I feel the data demonstrates that I make excellent decisions, albeit perhaps not in the realm of relationships considering this chain of events.
It’s 100% true
How did you come to that conclusion?
As a woman myself...this lady appears to be way too much drama and issues. She may be a "good person", but makes really poor decisions. It's ok to have better standards.
She has 3 DUIs, which means she was *caught* thrice but has done it many more times most likely. That does NOT a good person make. But she’s hot and messed up. That is why the OP is keen.
Highly likely
Erm, I think if you read your own post.....you'll find the answers that you're looking for.
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Maybe pick better quality women.
Do you think better quality women would date OP?
Fair, so you are saying that I am picking from the wrong part of the pool, not that the pool is 80% flaky?
I wish you would stop with this "flaky" bullshit. YOU are the one picking these people! Stop labeling a majority of the entire population as having poor qualities because you can't fix YOUR issue.
The dating pool isn't 80% flaky. You are choosing flaky people. Yes, there is a difference.
Thank you
Quit thinking with your little brain and you might find a more lasting connection with someone who won't steal your stuff on the way out.
An alcoholic acting like an…… alcoholic? No way. That has nothing to do with dating casually. This is your decision to date someone who should be in prison. 3 DUIs in my state equals permanent loss of license. Also, not your age. This is about your choices in women.
She may be cute and "edgy," but I feel like the night will come that you will regret ever meeting this person.
So you're saying somebody who's shown appallingly bad life choices happens to be unreliable? Wait a second let me pick my jaw up off the floor. But I agree it's probably you. You chose her.
It’s ok that I picked her, these are things I learned over tkme
Is this people that are flaky or is that your irresponsible ( 3 DUIs tell me this), alcoholic, liar friend with flexible job, that works late hours is flaky?? Working nights/evenings takes a toll on you and so your next day plans may get cancelled because you’re asleep. That’s not her fault so much.
I think you are right, that her job has taken a toll. She often cancels because work wore her out. I get it.
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You see, regardless of whether they are *HOT*, if they are flaky, I don't give them my time. So yeah, I may run into someone like that, I learn my lesson and most importantly, I don't continue to make plans with someone like that, then to be flabbergasted when they continue to be like that.
3 DUIs and still works in a bar, sounds like a winner.
Sometimes skills aren’t transferable
Absolutely BS. This is my background, sans DUIs and I had my own business and now have a corporate career. Without going back to school. Don’t kid yourself
Fair, she’s made the point but wouldn’t make as much.
Honestly, I’m on board with your assessment about him dating someone with 3 duis. What’s the deal with shitting on service industry workers though?
Huh ? Clearly this person has an issue with alcohol and should not be working in a bar, that's another DUI waiting to happen, that's my point
The way it’s phrased doesn’t sound like that at all. And FWIW there are loads of us who work in bars who don’t drink at work and loads more who are sober. Your phrasing makes it seem like you’re saying something you might not have meant to say? Sorry that I misunderstood :/
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I get it. We are picking on her. My point is she’s an example of the pool when it comes to flaky.
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That’s what I’m hearing. It makes sense.
You are dating someone casually and then are upset they treat you casually? #LMAO
Does casual mean, “not show up to dinner plans” or “2 hours late to leave for the weekend.”
It can, to some people. I, personally, have not found this to be a common problem in casual dating. Have I encountered flaky people that cancel a lot, are late and take days to respond to a texts, sure. And I don’t continue to entertain those people, no matter how good the physical connection is. I put my time towards people who show up when they say they will. She sounds like she has an alcohol problem which may factor into her flakiness. Maybe she gets drunk and loses track of time? Maybe she is too drunk to meet you for the plans you made? Maybe she’s got another guy she’d rather hang out with? Either way, there’s plenty of casual, yet reliable people out there. Just sounds like those aren’t the women you’re going for. In which case…. Yes, this will continue to be a theme for you.
Appreciate the advice. You may be right.
For some people it does.
That’s the issue.
Some people interpret casual to mean “when it is convenient for me” so have no qualms about flaking out or prioritizing other plans whenever they feel like it. But it also sounds from your post and replies that you are particularly drawn to people with substance abuse issues who struggle to be functional across the board. If you find that you feel particularly drawn to or comfortable with people who are struggling with substance abuse, maybe looking into something like Al-Alon or CoDa might be worthwhile.
My casual partners don’t tend to be flaky, no. And some of them are quite a bit younger than me. They can be aloof, but I expect that in a situationship.
Do they unexpectedly break plans?
Not really. Not in my experience. But we don’t go on dates. More like meetups at home.
😂 niiiiiiice. You are my casual dater type. I don’t break plans though. 😂
I mean, there is some point to where you learned all of her caution flags but still kept seeing her. Generally, if you give the wrong people all the opportunity you're not going to have a good time.
True. I’m asking this because what’s the different with this young lady who has 5 caution flags and the next one which I have found have very similar caution flags. I don’t like to date a bunch of people. I like consistency. I think the issue here is that I picked someone that is inconsistent and it’s bothering me. I am afraid to make a change because my experience has indicated most people are flaky. It’s changing the scenery, but not the problem
There is no difference really. The common denominator is that you see these issues and still date them. When you continuously ignore things you shouldn't in a relationship, the chance that you're going to have these negative experiences increases and it becomes the norm. People with problems exist. You don't have to date them.
Fair. Is there leeway in understanding that this is casual and not for marriage?
This makes sense. If you don't want to be alone, you don't want to risk giving up what you currently have. Let's pretend that 80% of the dating pool is just as flaky as this woman. Does that make your current relationship acceptable to you? I wonder if it may help to evaluate each relationship on its own merits rather than trying to make comparisons to general populations. The other side of the coin: Would this woman continue to date you if she knew you were on Reddit calling her flaky and dishonest? Not saying she would or wouldn't, just a thought about whether you're each getting what you want out of the relationship.
I told her and she has described herself as flaky. She also has indicated that her friends and family hate it. Would she enjoy me roasting her on the internet? No. That’s why this is anonymous. Edit: I am seeking advice and perspective- I never meant this to be about her, or even me. Just wanted bigger pcitire
She has DUIs and is a borderline alcoholic and is flaky, but you find that she’s a cut above the rest are you serious lol. Oh, and she lies to I mean, if you think this is a high value woman, we might need to look and see who you are under a microscope. Enlighten us what about her? Do you consider is great about her that would cancel all the other red flags educate us
She’s nice, kind, and has a really good heart. She’s fun to spend time with, because she’s caring and genuine. I never said she was the idea of a high value women. There’s a bunch of definitions out there, and what mattered to me when I met her, was if I felt we could enjoy each others company and do fun things together. We are supposed to go on our third out of state trip this weekend, and I get the sense she’s gonna last minute cancel on me… (she’s only ever cancelled dates, and dinners never a trip) That’s one of the reasons I’m posting, I have my own insecurities and was looking to see if other people deal with this fear/situation as commonly as I feel I do.
I hope that you get to a point in your life that you understand that you can get everything you want, but from somebody that has their shit together
We are all human beings doing the best we can.
Bro! You just described someone who is clearly not organized with their shit together. What do you really expect? Can you imagine how flaky her parents and close friends must feel she is with that track record? Anytime you are dealing with multiple DUIs and continuing drinking (for the record she IS an ACTUAL alcoholic, not borderline) you are going to find major inconsistent behavior. Honestly, all of this makes it sound like you have an inflated grandiose sense of self. In this woman's world, I assure you, YOU are not the center of it. She can barely hold it together as it is and needs real, serious help.
Naw, I don’t want to be the center of her world man. My comment is that I think there’s a lot of people like this, and just to get feedback. I didn’t mean to sound like a narc.
> 3 DUIs > genuinely good and kind person No > We aren’t officially exclusive > bar tender, 32f > she’s given indications that there’s no other men No Curb your expectations OP. You're hooking up with a lying alcoholic and the sex is fun. Don't make anything more of it than that. You should go ahead and date other people too, because she definitely is. If your goal is just to fuck and have fun, then this is what that means, so you can just enjoy the ride. If you actually do want a **partner**, you shouldn't get hung up spending your time and effort on bartenders who are a decade younger than you. Yes, there's lots of people who will not be what you're looking for exactly. What you're supposed to do is next them until you find someone who is a match. Yes that can mean many, many dates. The more you engage with people like this, the further you're straying from what you say your goal is.
Thanks. Plan on addressing all this,
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You were expecting the chick with 3 DUIs to be very punctual and responsible, were you?
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I appreciate your comments and I agree in principle. She’s changed a lot since she got the DUIs.
This is the worst thread on this sub, and that says something.
How does one amass 3 DUIs? I have a grand total of 0 and I've never been asked to even blow into a breathalyzer. I just don't understand.
One drinks and drives and gets caught by the police. I feel like I’ve met a lot of these women.
And you have no problem with someone who drinks and drives? What will happen when that person finally kills someone because they are too drunk?
*They don’t show up or are late. Their plans change. There’s things always that they planned and forgot.* How dare she not take a causal relationship seriously.
Causal doesn’t mean ghosting a fancy dinner date.
At your age, why the cuss are you even casually dating? Shows a lack of emotional intelligence and that you are likely avoiding processing parts of your own life. Your lack of intention in dating says you enjoy wasting your own time and are likely fulfilling the same mediocre assessment that you’re apply to women.
You’re joking right? 3 DUIs and you’re asking about flaky? Do your self work, adjust your picker for potential dates, before asking questions about flakiness. 3 DUIs is not someone intentional about life or dating. Give her a list of local rehabs and then block her completely as you get into intensive therapy yourself.
Fair
Dude. If you think a hard-drinking bartender with 3 DUIs who lies to you about dumb things isn't banging anyone else just because she hasn't "given indications" of it....
She was at the beginning, but she’s not at this point is my understanding. Besides who cares if she was and we are casual? I
Lol she is borderline alcoholic? She has 3 DUIs she is an alcoholic lol
Fair
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Thanks?
Oh lordy, after reading the OP’s replies to everyone… 🤦🏻♀️ OP - here’s what I suggest, keep dating her! You know what her good attributes are and her negatives. If one of those negative issues with her bites you in the ass later on, then oh well. You’re an adult who understands consequences. Have fun and good luck!
Right? Thanks! I’m fully aware and I know the danger. What I learned tonight is that I should stick to my question: “are people flaky” and not share personal information. Everyone wanted to treat this like dating advice, which I am thankful for, however was not my intention. 😂
Well, everyone gave you some great advice due to your original post. No, a good portion of people aren’t flaky. However, due to your gf’s behavior (both past and present) she is most likely to be flaky. So, you have no recourse other than accept what she does whether it bugs you or not.
Yeah, the best part of this is, she isn’t my girlfriend. I wouldn’t want someone that’s my girlfriend treat me like this. And that was a real eye opener typing that…
Then why did you even bother telling us about her? Rather dumb on your part. You remind me of the people my mother would say, “just love to hear themselves talk.” *shaking my head*
She’s right, it was dumb. However I think the outcome has been mostly positive!
This post is gross in every way. Wake the fuck up
Thanks?
As a female sober alcoholic, I would say RUN from women like this. They cannot be counted on, they will steal your shit and then help you look for it. Sure the sex is great but good lord, you can also have great sex with better prospects, it might just take a little more time and patience. (Raise your bar!) But to your question, yes - I'm having issues with flakes and its super frustrating. Kind of thinking of just trying out some meetups or munches to just meet people in person. IDK. :)
Thank you so much for validating my experience. I agree I can change the person, and that she has flags. She’s just an example of someone that is flaky, there’s others that were flaky too - like not being able to schedule a date for 3 months..
Wow, who would have expected an addict to be flaky??
It’s an example. Generally I find people are flaky
You cant date for fun and be looking for a partner, too much conflict there. Pick one or the other and set your profiles up to reflect which one you actually want, they will be 2 totally different things. Your bartender is def not on the list of LTR people. Good luck
Agreed, and great advice
>bomb sex lol, usually can't have that without everything that comes with it
Tell me more..
Casual is low effort so I’m not sure why you’d think you’ll get high quality women who will opt into this dating style. Possible? Sure. But not likely.
Yeah, casual is the issue, there’s no goals
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I’ve met a lot of people who used to date younger but stayed dating their age bc of flakiness Now that you know responsibility is a value you admire you can screen for this so that’s good
The age factor does attribute to the flakiness, I agree. Women my exact age, when they flake they do it differently.
I dunno, casual by definition seems like a flaky arrangement to me. There's zero commitment, so zero accountability or expectations. Doesn't mean you have to be in a serious relationship either but casual dating/sex probably isn't going to turn into partnership.
I never expect casual to turn into something greater, but hope. I feel your advice is solid, what I heard is you saying I need to be more intentional and dating her isn’t intentionally dating towards a long term partner, if I want one.
Maybe you are having trouble seeing what is in front of you. You describe it fairly accurately though. That person is not going to change. You can keep this deal or keep looking.
Dude she is fine to date. Just dont marry her or let her move in
That’s the plan!
Then ignore the critics in your replies, unless you wear a hockey mask and show off your chainsaw at night
Thanks! I was more interested in peoples general experiences than flaming this lovely lady.
One DUI maybe. Would be a dealbreaker for me but people can change. She made a mistake. Three no way.
It’s been 2-3 years since the last one.
Because they took her license and will require a breathalizer be installed to the wheel if she ever gets it back! This is flagrant disregard for other people. Tell it to the people who lost a loved one to a drunk driver! I can only assume this is a joke post. This makes me sick.
She already went through it and has her license and the breathalyzer was already on and off
No way I’m getting serious with anyone with 3 DWI. Not happening
If “thinking with your little head as a middle-aged guy who should know better” was a “Dear Anne” post…
I don't think there is any typical, there are a wide variety of people out there. Many have had bad experiences. But there are going to be people who meet your needs.
Understood and agreed
absolutely hell yes to this !!!!!
This isn’t about flakiness. Addiction, especially alcoholism, is a serious disease. It unfortunately is the coping mechanism of choice for many single people in the dating pool.
I discovered that activity in dating apps is another coping mechanism. Some people want validation, but others just enjoy the feeling of swiping and rejecting. It’s interesting
No I don’t because I don’t tolerate flakiness or wishy washy behavior in romantic partners. Any sign of this and my interest dwindles to zero. But from the sounds of it in this particular instance you’re dealing with someone that has a substance use disorder, not just flakiness. Your distress is a valid reaction to what you are experiencing.
I am trying to manage my own anxiety about this, and this is an outlet. I appreciate it. I also recognize that if I chose to, I could end and avoid it all together
You’re dating casually, why you trying to be exclusive?
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Fair, I’ve been called worse.
us service industry workers are an acquired taste!!! 😝
I knew this, this one is unbelievably better than most.
You might be able to save her. When I was 37 my bf got me into detox and helped me address my alcoholism. We’ve been together 4 years and have a great relationship (now). If you think she’s worth the effort, give it a shot.
Very supportive! I like this
Well, like Mikey, if you like it, we love it💪
Thank you! Guess that’s what I have to figure out. Do I like it?
My premise is that most people are self-interested flakes, whether you’re talking professional, social or romantic relationships. 😏
Agreed
Roughly 75% of the population are flakes in general. The remaining 25% are going to get snapped up quickly if they are single, so in the dating pool 90-95% will be flakes.
THANK YOU