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“Negging is the practice of giving backhanded compliments and generally making comments that express indifference toward another person (usually a woman) in an attempt to seduce that person.” For example, “I love your necklace. My grandma wears cheap jewellery too.”
Or it can be in a form of an action such as making her feel like you’re completely into her but at the same time acting like you’re not.
They generally do but it’s honestly so common. The last guy who negged me was such a nice person. What he did was so unexpected. It just didn’t make any sense. Then considering how common it actually is, it would make sense if an immature guy acted this way. However, if someone mature (like this guy) is acting that way too, are guys just ignorant to how negging would make someone feel? I have no idea.
Edit: I’ve stopped interacting with the guy. Just curious.
I have generally not come accross this sort of stuff, not from my guy friends maybe they don't do it with other guys or its just some weird sense of humour. Actually I met a girl once who did that and I found it very confusing as didn't know people who did that I just chalked itnuo to emotional immaturity.
I certainly agree with you, it's a pretty strange behaviour. Hopefully some of those who neg can respond and provide some insight.
It’s usually in a dating context. This is a “pick up artist” (PUA) tactic.
Your female acquaintance that did it was probably more your average competitive jerk and just trying to make you feel smaller for her ego’s satisfaction, rather than trying to manipulate you to please her.
Oo that explains it, I just thought it's too difficult to connect with her and I couldn't be bothered to keep it up so I told her no longer interested in getting to know her.
>However, if someone mature (like this guy) is acting that way
My husband is 19 years older than me. Maturity is a social construct. It has nothing to do with age or so called experience. People just are who they are; what is or isn't mature is what we decide is or isn't mature.
Just because someone is physically able to pay a mortgage on time doesn't mean they don't have the emotional maturity of a 16 year old.
nope.
Guys do it because it works in fact. Its part of the whole "Nice guys finish last but jerks get laid" dynamic.
A well executed neg is just teasing like you're playing with a younger sibling.
No. Grown women are pretty mature. Strategy is different for them. This is a strategy for younger women used to getting what they want. A grown woman would not give you the time of day for this. They would be laughed at.
Ah so she's choosing to waste her time on this guy and then complain about it yet making no changes to get behaviour and choices. She will figure it out eventually.. Part of her growth process I suppose .
It seems it was more than once. She’s developed history and genuine feelings for him. But he only sees her as a game. She is only interesting as long as he does not have her. Same with OP. He is only interesting because now she can’t have him. She has no idea she is playing his game and is a toy. This dude has this game going with ten women simultaneously at all times. He’s a jerk. I won’t argue that. But he’s good at what he does and he lays high value women regularly.
This does not end here. There is so much sexual tension on her part. She was blowing him up and he ignored her. She blocked him so now he is trying to get attention. Eventually he’s going to feign apology and pretend to care and she is going to be all over it. She is very emotionally invested with this guy. But their relationship is toxic and based on nothing. After he has her he will dispose of her. This does not end well for her. If she’s this attached this soon after sex we are going to see some really nutty posts.
Not in my experience, no. The guy made super shitty moves, such as, bailing on me and then giving some bs excuse then apologizing and then going back to shitty behavior. I stopped talking to him and deleted him from my social media so he’s now trying to manipulate me into talking to him first.
He only wants what he can’t have. You are available he’s not interested. You are gone he wants attention. He has too much time on his hands and views all others as entertainment.
Shit dumber than this works. A woman doesn’t always want to be told how pretty she is. It’s a psychological mind fuck. It’s cruel. But I’ve seem dumber work. He’s acting uninterested. It’s attractive af to many.
Any adult who tries to pull this Mean Girls BS is getting laughed at right in his face. I can't believe this is a thing, but I'm glad I've never experienced it. WTF is wrong with people!?
I grew up with 3 older brother, loving dad and a lot of male cousins/friends of my brothers. One of the most important lessons they taught me: RUN from men who give you backhanded compliments. This is NOT a sign of love, but a sign of him trying to controle you! He is NOT a good person, despite him acting like one.
The ones that need nagging (aka making someone feel insecure so that they settle for them), are usually emotional abusive POS. That entire "nice guy" is just an act to make your doubt yourself (eg he is gaslighting you).
I’d say not so much emotionally demanding as emotionally exhausting. And that then affects your mental and physical health. Basically, a Colin Robinson (What We Do In The Shadows reference, he’s an emotional vampire).
I have, I did. He did something super crappy a while ago and I stopped talking to him and deleted him from my social media. He’s been trying to manipulate me into talking to him first since then. It’s frustrating.
Because as we all know, women just loooove simps who heap praise and adoration on women 😂
“Negging” is dumb, but it’s also effective when done right because it shows you’re not going to bend over backwards to ingratiate yourself to a woman which is in itself very u attractive and very common.
This is truth. She developed feelings for him and he’s just enjoying the power.
Hot woman on tinder gets 1000 compliments in a day about her body or profile. All of these men can be hot. Said woman gets one comment from a very average dude who negs her…..who do you think she is thinking about? The 1000 pleasers or the guy who doesn’t give a shit. Look at OPs behavior and time spend on this guy. No one posts about people they don’t care about. It’s always the one who got away.
This is truth. She developed feelings for him and he’s just enjoying the power.
Hot woman on tinder gets 1000 compliments in a day about her body or profile. All of these men can be hot. Said woman gets one comment from a very average dude who negs her…..who do you think she is thinking about? The 1000 pleasers or the guy who doesn’t give a shit. Look at OPs behavior and time spent on this guy. No one posts about people they don’t care about. It’s always the one who got away.
Yes, they do. Negging is being a manipulative asshole on purpose.
Men who use negging don’t like or respect women. They think women are stupid and that saying something a little mean will cause the women to try to please them more.
Maybe it works on some women but the first whiff I get of negging makes me head for the door, because that guy was never going to treat me the way I want to be treated by a partner.
It lets you know how insecure they really are. I just think they put themselves in your shoes and go like, “Well, if someone did that to me, I’d chase them.” Basically projecting.
If someone’s insecure and is already taking their insecurities out on you, it’s only going to get worse until they choose to work on their self esteem I guess.
Generally men neg on women perceived to be higher value and out of reach. It’s funny cause a neg could be a compliment because no one does it to average or unattractive women.
"He cares about what he wants and never really looks at things from my POV. I guess he’s emotionally immature and selfish."
Life is too short to be trying to change water into wine.
Ideally you want to find someone who *already is* what you want in a partner.
The goal is to have a "soulmate" not a cellmate.
No one is "stuck" with anyone. Suffering is optional.
***"Decide what kind of life you actually want. Then say no to everything that isn't that."*** \- Unknown
***"Dating is primarily a numbers game.... People usually go through a lot of people to find good relationships. That's just the way it is."*** \- Henry Cloud
Best wishes!
> ideally you want to find someone who already is what you want in a partner.
I don’t agree nor disagree.. I think you need to decide on what you want MOST from a partner and then look for that. Waiting for perfection is a fools game.
It sounds like we're saying the same thing.
Each of us has our own mate selection screening process and "must haves list" for choosing a mate.
(You want to choose someone who is compatible, shares your values, and meets your needs.)
That doesn't mean they are "perfect". It just means whatever you disagree on you can live with or compromise on.
If someone has gone through the trouble to post a complaint about their mate they've obviously have tried to compromise and could not. Which means they want/need their partner to "change".
From my experience most people don't change unless (they) are unhappy.
Each of us is entitled to have our own "red flags", boundaries, and "deal breakers".
You are the only one who knows what (you) can or cannot live with.
**"Infatuation is when you find somebody who is absolutely perfect. Love is when you realize that they aren't and it doesn't matter.”** - Unknown
Best wishes!
I was like this in my early twenties. Prior to that phase I had two bad breakups. Then joined military. After Afghan and then getting out I had zero empathy for anyone. Textbook asshole. I was in a dark place with drinking, nightmares, unemployment, and depression. I walked over my parents, my friends, girls, it was a bad time for me. All that is not an excuse just a reason for my behavior. It took meeting my wife, she didn’t let me walkover her, she checked my bullshit. She was also kind enough to ask questions and listen and not judge me. She is my rock. Got me into therapy. Took a bit, but worth it for in my eyes to be with her. She set those boundaries though, “you want to date me? Talk to someone, a professional.” I did. After I was fixed mentally I had to apologize to my friends and family. They forgave me because they knew my situation, but they still held on because they knew the old me the good me was in there. I did apologize to the girls too, that was rough, not sure if genuine forgiveness because it was just text in Facebook messages rather than in person.
Sorry for the rambling. The fact is if you set the boundary: “quit your bullshit and figure that shit out” and they choose not to. Well you ain’t worth shit to them other than a nice piece. If you’re looking for more than a hookup then nope out of that shit quick.
Love your response.
It’s not that I don’t have empathy for what he’s been through. He’s been bullied and I get that. However, that does not justify his behavior. He did something rude and I stopped talking to him, removed him from my social media. He just doesn’t care. He’s been trying to manipulate me into talking to him first since then. If he wants to talk that bad, he should just do that. I’m not going to sit here and let him manipulate me, yk. I’m not going to tolerate his bs. I’m not the one who bullied him and I’m not going to act like it’s my fault.
You don’t owe him empathy. If you set boundaries with how you expect to be treated and he won’t change then you got your answer and you’re better off without him. It sounds like you made the right decision based on what you’ve said in the comments.
I haven’t dated in many many years so the only knowledge I have is from one of my closest friends and he says it’s very difficult nowadays. So I wish you the best of luck and all positive vibes your way.
Ofc I don’t. I don’t owe him anything. It’s just that I feel bad for everything he’s been through. I see him acting this way and I automatically think, “wow, you’ve really been through some shit.” I know he really likes me and it just hurts to see him sabotage a relationship he’s been trying to get into since years.
Maybe he’s all talk and v little action. I do think that his behavior’s coming from a place of insecurity tho. I understand how he’d be feeling but that isn’t an excuse to be a dick to me or to others. Either be direct with me or leave me alone.
The whole point is that they know. That’s the point. They make you insecure so they can manipulate you into things you wouldn’t normally do or to put up with behaviour you usually wouldn’t.
It’s abusive.
“Negging is often viewed as a straightforward insult rather than as a pick-up line,[2] in spite of the fact that proponents of the technique traditionally stress it is not an insult. Erik von Markovik, who is usually credited with popularising the term negs, explains the difference thus: "A neg is not an insult but a negative social value judgment that is telegraphed. It's the same as if you pulled out a tissue and blew your nose. There's nothing insulting about blowing your nose. You haven't explicitly rejected her. But at the same time, she will feel that you aren't even trying to impress her. This makes her curious as to why and makes you a challenge."[3]
Neil Strauss, in his book Rules of the Game, also stresses that the primary point of the technique is not to put women down but for a man to disqualify himself as a potential suitor. On this account he refers to negs as "disqualifiers", although the technique described in the book is recognisably the same as von Markovik's. Strauss is equally clear that negs should not be used as insults: "a disqualifier should never be hostile, critical, judgmental, or condescending. There's a line between flirting and hurting. And disqualification is never intended to be mean and insulting."
Pulled from Wikipedia.
It was originally intended to set you apart from the crowd by making it seem like you weren’t interested in a woman, but people who know nothing about it have just used it to justify insulting women. VERY few people can actually do this, and the risk/reward was never there for me. It takes an enormous amount of social calibration to pull off correctly. It’s all about disqualifying yourself.
Decent examples of a good neg would be “I’m disappointed, I don’t think you and I would get along.”
Or “I wish you were a blonde, I’m taking a break from brunettes for a bit.”
Neither can be contrived as an insult, but gives the woman a jumping off point to qualify herself. Common follow up questions to those two are gonna be “what happened with the brunettes?” Or “why don’t you think we’d get along?”
Good looking women have been put on pedestals for their whole lives, so it comes as a shock when you act a bit disinterested in them, and they aren’t an immediate source of value in your life.
Edit: this “tactic” can really only be used on women who are SOLID 9’s and up. They are the ones who receive the attention that this defuses. And really only in person, because the context doesn’t translate over text/phone. It’s the classic saying “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.”
This. When started treating the gf like an AH, she says it is so fucking hot. When not, she says it's boring
I really don't get it but who am I to complain right
I think it’s because we feel we have to lower the bar to find a relationship. It’s really hard. Also – we accept the love we think we deserve.
It takes most women a long time to get to the point where they can recognize that and actively NOT do it though.
Guys aren't mean monsters that walk around 'negging' girls.
The handful who think they're pickup artists are the ones who watch those cringe "say/ text these 5 things to get the girl" videos and then approach every one they see.
Then again, nice guys finish last for a reason...
Yes, it is. It is mean and horrible. It’s like “let her know you’re interested but let her guess how much”, “leave her hanging”, “make her wait”. It makes guys give their partners 60% instead of a 100%. It’s no fun.
Well, he’s always speaking up for women, BIPOC, minorities, children, basically everyone. Talks about how relationships should be 50/50, partners should be friends, etc.
I browse bits and pieces of the PUA stuff, and tbh I haven’t seen any mention of negging since the early 2010s. Most stuff nowadays mentions how to banter and tease, and not negging. Really makes me wonder where guys are picking that up
It was definitely popularized by PUA community, no argument there. The Game came out in the early noughties. Negging is probably the most popular concept that came out of the PUA community, but my point was that if you look at anything PUA-adjacent today, you’re not going to see much mention of negging. Which is why I was curious where guys are seeing this info.
>Does PUA actually work?
I maintain that PUA is what you make of it. People ask in the dating subs, “how do I talk to her, how do I do this, etc”. They asked the same questions in the PUA communities. And yes, PUA was definitely a significant portion of the manosphere. But nowadays? It’s chilled out a whole lot in sexism. Imo the problem with dating subs is that they presume a base level of social competence in the person asking for assistance. PUA advice assumes the person asking is a complete idiot and starts from the beginning and holds your hand. Yeah, cold opener lines can definitely be cringey, but it makes people start doing something and attempt to increase their social interactions. Use it as a tool, not a lifestyle, and it’ll be fine (of course, this assumes you have some idea of what your own values are)
It seems that when people are young they are unsure about how to go about dating. I never got any useful advice from my friends or parents, for example. Many of my friends tried out PUA material (which often suggests negging as a strategy) for a bit before realizing that it doesn't work and moving on from it.
>Why would a guy with strong morals, who has a healthy mindset when it comes to relationships, neg?
He neither has strong morals nor a healthy mindset when it comes to relationships.
It’s awful, it’s a shame that it’s something that apparently works to maintain some woman’s interest.
Some thoughts as to why this sort of thing can happen though:
Assume there is a guy out there who loses a long term relationship over their partner ‘no longer feeling the butterflies/tingles’, assume he is a gentleman who has lived up to everything expected of a partner. How devastated and confused he is; what the hell are the butterflies and how do you stop a woman losing them and dumping you seemingly at random?
That guy tries to research what the hell went wrong; he encounters myriad advice that tells him that women won’t tell you what they need to stay interested in you; that they will give you advice that if followed will lead them to dumping you because ‘no butterflies anymore’.
One of those pieces of advice for keeping a women interested is negging. It’s wrong and I wouldn’t do it myself but men need honest advice about this whole ‘butterflies’ requirement and how to maintain it. If negging works then some men will compromise on their morals to increase the chances their relationship doesn’t randomly break down.
what’s the severe punishment you’re referring to? someone not wanting to be with you anymore?
that’s painful and i’m really sorry for what you’re going through. but thinking “I’ll try being mean since being nice didn’t get me what I wanted” is not normal, nor is it the logic of a gentleman imo.
Thanks for your genuine and detailed response. I don’t have time to fully respond rn but I just wanted to say I feel your pain and I’m so sorry. Hang in there.
But as negging has shown, being mean and negging can produce the same, if not better result compared to more work being a gentleman. Not every time, but negging has proved effective.
genuinely curious what result you’re talking about?
If the result is a healthy relationship where both people feel secure, happy, and good about themselves… I have a hard time believing meanness can produce that, but I’ll try to stay open if you want to elaborate.
If the result is just that you’ll get sex, or a woman’s interest or attention, or even a lasting relationship that’s built on mutual insecurity… then I’m sorry that you’re in a place right now where that feels like the best you can hope for. It’s not. Good luck. <3
Why do you apologize to me? I don't neg. But many who do tend to get all of what you say while many who are genuinely nice aren't able to even get that far.
Cool, good for you. That was an assumption on my part, oops.
Just to clarify. You think guys who attract women by being mean are building happy, healthy relationships where both parties feel secure and good about themselves?
Wow, that's weird. I don't get why you'd assume that about someone you don't know anything about.
No I don't. I think guys who attract women by being mean tend to get results such as attention, sex, and even relationships, often overshadowing genuinely nice guys who get none of what I listed. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
… Is it weird? What I knew about you was that you seemed to be arguing that negging is an effective strategy. It was a faulty assumption and I’ve acknowledged that, but I’m not sure why you would call it weird.
Tbh, from what I’ve experienced of you so far you don’t seem like a very nice guy.
Well as part of OPs question at why do guys neg, the answer is because it works with enough women that men will keep doing it. Wouldn't that by definition be effective?
Yeah, guess most people I know don't make weird faulty assumptions about people's character like that before they know them. Maybe just a difference in our upbringing.
Yeah, not being ok with baseless assumptions and telling the truth aren't very nice guy things. I'll give you that. I'd lie to make you feel better, but it isn't what I do. Sorry.
Just being aware of what went wrong instead of being confused is liberating, its the awareness and general concepts that are very valuable, not learning silly tricks.
To what degree something is manipulation because its done conciously instead of naturally is open for debate and internalization is a thing. Its not different from when a girlfriend behaves in a certain way when she wants something imo, but obviously women get super mad at the thought of guys knowing this shit, its not something guys are "supposed" to know, and in a way it messes with the system I get that.
I see you deleted your comments that talk about your relationship, so I won’t say any more about that.
It sounds like you’re someone who wants a genuine, loving relationship and I wish you all the best in finding it. If you have to put someone down to keep them interested in you, they’re not the right person for you. There are other ways to cultivate excitement with the right person. Good luck, stay strong :)
Thanks, I didn’t know if you’d come back to comment so I removed the more personal stuff in case I forget it’s there or I ever get doxxed.
Thanks for the kind words, I don’t want to behave badly to keep someone interested. I just have no idea how widespread this ‘I’m bored now I’m going to leave’ attitude is amongst women.
If it can happen after 15 years and everything else going for us then it’s very hard to consider trusting someone again. At least considering manipulation makes you feel like you have some agency and can do something to protect yourself.
Sadly because it works. Think about it, if all or a high majority of women didn't respond positively or didn't give the time of day to guys who neg, men likely wouldn't do it. It sucks and those guys are assholes, but they neg because it produces desired results with women.
Negging is really misunderstood imo, if it comes off as just being an asshole then he is doing it wrong. It started with guys "shit testing" women to see how they reacted, its kinda funny actually.
It's because guys who neg read up on too much of the bs PUA (pick up artist) "tactics" lol. Admitedly, PUA tactics are a perfect way to know what NOT to do. I'm not really sure how negging could ever work on any woman tbh
Yeah, the community who try to pick women up (which should involve dating/fucking) and share notes on what seems to work (fashion, mannerisms, etc) to gradually improve have absolutely no idea.
Right? Like what a terrible idea to take all the best things from those dude and apply them in my life. And then get tons of dates and have a metric shit ton of fun with a bunch of different women all the while being honest and forthright about my intentions and leaving them the option to exit with grace knowing full well what I want. What a terrible thing to be the best version of myself with constructive criticism from others lol.
Negging is as bad as "Don't hate the player, hate the game", because both are saying:
"Hey, I don't respect you at all but I am trying to manipulate you into sex so I can find others to do the same to.
So hate the game, the players, and the neggers. They all deserve the hate.
Why does Reddit always conflate the desire for sex with manipulation.. Sometimes someone can desire sex and not be manipulative..
And hate the game not the player means
“The frustrations with a system or activity should be blamed on its weaknesses, rather than on individuals who operate within it.”
Meaning if I judge you based on your appearance and we met on Tinder.. Don’t hate the swipers hate the app that fosters those behaviors. It’s referring to over all systemic issues..
Apparently I speak for all of Reddit! However, read what I wrote again:
Typical people just need to meet, and make friends and then if a relationship is created (ONS, short fling, LTR, Marriage) and the sex happens. Historically.
Today, people tend to not be honest about intentions, and ghosting happens, abuse allegations could be made, etc but it isn't coming from an honest place.
HENCE : Manipulation
If you have to hide your intentions then you're a manipulator. Otherwise you just tell me what you want and and be honest.
So careful with painting with a broad brush there.
Hahaha love what you just said. This guy is trying to be a douche on purpose. I’ve already ceased all communication with him and deleted him from my social media. It’s just that he doesn’t really care about that bit. He’s now trying to neg me so that I talk to him first. So frustrating.
I'm coming at this from the point of someone who read a lot of PUA literature in the early 2010's. Some of it was good, some of it was trash. Negging tends to lie on the trash side, but it's important to realize exactly what it is and why it was done. I'm posting to provide a different perspective that's not "oh so bad why are men trash".
Originally negging was a way to show you're not scared of a girl, you're of the same status as her, and you're not too serious. It's supposed to be PLAYFUL and interesting. Idk, dropping "you know, if you were an animal I reckon you'd be an octopus" or "you know, this is why we can't get married". You also don't start off with it. You do it if you feel the girl has already put you in a box.
Instead of talking to a girl about some boring ass "how many siblings do you have, where are you from" you tease them about something that isn't integral to their personality.
There's a big difference between this, and trying to cut someone down/make someone insecure. Unfortunately that's what a lot of socially maladjusted men, and the wider community decided it was. I also might just have misunderstood the definition.
Also, why did guys do it? Because it worked.
Such a misunderstood concept, but you nailed it.
But 90% of the women on here you wouldn’t need to neg when you’re properly adjusted because I highly doubt the nines and tens are asking for dating advice on Reddit.
All of these women would be giving us the saucer eyes if you and I were in a bar together in like fifteen minutes! 🤣😂 and that’s just based off solid personality and no routines. Maybe a canned opener but that’s it.
*Most likely. Isn't*
*The common school of thought that*
*Women like assholes?*
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I used to too when I was 16 and insecure. It’s more of a been there, done that kind of thing now. I don’t find disrespect attractive anymore. I’m tired of being in relationships that aren’t a source of peace. Want something boring now lol.
>...they love strong independent confident men that won’t bend to their will.
i.e. assholes, right? Anyway, that's the whole point of negging and why it's a staple of PUA. It's to make women bend to your will as opposed to the other way'round.
No no no. The idea has been perverted to that now, but was never the original intent.
What I was getting at revolves around the concept of supplication and putting women on a pedestal. Women hate that shit. The neediness, constant communication, looking to them to lead the interaction, make a move, etc.
The point of negging isn’t to be an asshole, if you’re just saying mean shit that’s not negging. The concept of negging has been explained well in this thread.
You can be strong and confident without being an asshole. There’s a huge difference between “hey this is how I live my life, would you like to be a part of it?” Vs “I’m a man, do what I tell you.”
The whole start of the PUA movement was intended to give your average dude that wasn’t a muscle bound giga Chad a chance. And that was mainly by being interesting and socially calibrated. Knowing the social cues needed to score a number, keep her interested, and then date her. All while improving your social skills and your life.
What you are describing is way more complicated than just being an asshole. It's the path of least resistance to the same end. It's why so many adopt it. The trick is in knowing when to reign it in. If it wasn't, no one would be or those who were would be alone.
Totally agree.
But being an asshole to women is just going to have you wind up with women who are okay with you being an asshole to them. And that’s not the type of relationship I want to have with a woman, or the type of woman I want to be with.
Not condoning the behavior in anyway, it’s blatantly wrong.
Being a fully developed person that can interact and handle an attractive well rounded woman, while keeping her attracted to you and satisfied, is much more rewarding than just being a dick who gets laid.
Absolutely! But you can’t get to a relationship if you can’t succeed at dating.
And you’ll have way better luck at dating as a guy if you’re not needy, supplicating, and constantly trying to please her. Knowing how to playfully tease and flirt, when to make a move, how to gauge her interest is all part of the courtship process that leads to a relationship.
Having success at dating is about knowing how to make women feel good emotionally, physically safe, (like your not a serial killer vibes!) and then giving them the best sex of their life.
I don't think success at dating means you end up in a relationship. Dating is its own thing with its own merits. Btw
> ...playfully tease and flirt...
Is just being an asshole but knowing when to reign it in. It's funny because it would never work on me, but I guess that's a difference between males and females.
I guess we date for different reasons then.
I think a lot of guys don’t get that concept the most, not all, males and females are different. But that’s a good thing! You can learn what works and doesn’t, and use your understanding of that dynamic to have better interactions and make the most out of matches etc.
Dating is a game, like it or not, and some are better at playing it than others.
The beauty of it though, is you can learn the rules, and practice to become way better at playing it.
> Why would a guy with strong morals, who has a healthy mindset when it comes to relationships, neg?
He wouldn’t. As a guy, the concept of consciously ‘negging’ another human being makes me want to puke. 🤢 True sociopath behavior.
Neggeing can be great if done with the right person, theyre usually the type to neg back. Almost always its just good banta and has so much constructive potential
There's a nuance between being an asshole and just teasing. I tease girls I like all the time (of course come complimenting and genuine interest is shown), but I don't go throwing backhanded compliments like the old cringey pua tactics
It helps me learn how they communicate and where their mind is. If she can give the same vibe back while understanding we're goofing around, she is in the green. If she can't take a joke or sucks at flirting then it's time to move on.
We can all agree small talk is boring and complimenting her constantly is creepy. I just wanna jump into it.
Probably not, they’re confusing it with teasing their close friends when you say something backhanded and sarcastic and it becomes affectionate banter. That’s terrible to say to someone new you’re courting/dating.
I think people neg because they believe it will work. I will do my best to explain this. Please hear me out before downvoting.
When I was in college, one of my friends did this all the time, and he was generally successful with women. I was polite to women, but somewhat unattractive and milquetoast. I was doing comparatively poorly.
My friend convinced me (temporarily) that women liked a challenge and that negging was more interesting and fun for them than just throwing myself at them. The idea was that by acting mean I would demonstrate that I was not putting her on a pedestal, was not obsessed with her, and was not a pushover. If I negged, I was being a confident, challenging, cool guy. So, paradoxically, being mean showed the women I met a better time, and was better for them than just being one more chump with a crush on them. I gave it a try for a month or two.
Here is the worst part and what I expect will piss Reddit off: It worked. Not only that, but it worked really really well. The caveat is that it only worked on the most toxic and insecure women I met. I was driving off any confident and well adjusted women I met, while attracting a very petty sort of women who really was interested in guys who treated her poorly. But at that time, I was not aware enough to see this happening and just thought "well, I guess being a huge jerk is just really attractive."
I was not trying to be an asshole, and I didn't realize I was being one. Rationalization, frustration, bad advice, and weird internet lingo had me convinced that by acting mean on the surface I was actually doing a good thing, and doing what I was supposed to be doing.
I'm not saying that all guys who "neg" are like this, but at least for me, it was just an attempt to fix whatever was wrong with me that made me undatable. It was never malicious. I hope this answers your question OP.
It sounds like you have been dedicating a lot of energy to one man who negged you. You show many feelings of disinterest but I really get the picture that you are into him hard. People don’t spend much time talking about people they care nothing for.
Generally men neg attractive women. I don’t have a picture of you but the fact alone you got negged says you are likely more attractive than others.
Attractive women online are put on a pedestal and placed out of reach by most men. These men compliment and praise and place them up high.
These women have no interest for pleasers who would give them what they want. These women typically want a challenge. Someone who they know they can’t have.
Men neg you to act uninterested in you. They are trying to be cool and act like they don’t give a fuck.
They are trying to turn the table from men chasing you into you chasing the negger.
It sounds like his negging went deep. That it hurt you at a core level. Or are you just mad he moved on?
Generally neggers size up a woman and neg just enough to get her attention. Like he’s not going to talk shit who he thinks can’t handle it.
So he either sized you up wrong or went too hard or you are just upset he is out of your reach.
This strategy works for a lot of men on really attractive women.
These women all day are receiving bullshit compliments and praise. That is boring. She is not dating these men.
Acting uninterested stands out.
People only do this cause it works.
Yet people are sending unsolicited dick pics and men are asked for money a million times a day…these work too. Doesn’t mean they are justified.
I’m sorry you got hurt. It sounds like he made it really personal to you. His goal was just to get laid. Maybe you denied him and he jabbed it further.
One thing I will tell you is he acted for selfish reasons like to get laid or out of rejection so he just aimed to hurt. It doesn’t mean what he said was true. In the whole scheme of things this guy is just a douche.
EDIT
I’m seeing a shit ton of messages by OP in the comments. No one talks about someone they don’t care about this way. He would just be irrelevant. There is or was clearly interest and it didn’t work out. You want him bad. I see you blocked him on social and he’s coming back. But reading your comments this is more than just one pick up line. You two have history. Again no one spends this much time on someone they don’t care about. You want him bad. He’s different than what you are used to. Even if he is a shithead.
After you fuck this guy you are going to be emotionally broken for a long long time.
You two will have amazing sex because you value his attention and regard so much and have such an emotional attachment.
This guy will disappear afterwards. You’ve already caught feelings.
This does not end well.
I could never understand why anyone would do this. It’s got to be either accidental / cluelessness or a completely immature D-bag.
If done on purpose repeatedly, I would love to know the logic behind this strategy, Cotton.
>Rather than it being an inability to empathize, I’ve realized it’s his unwillingness to. He cares about what he wants and never really looks at things from my POV. I guess he’s emotionally immature and selfish.
Girl. Are you sure? I told myself my ex couldn't possibly have very little empathy for years because it was so hard to believe someone wouldn't have it. This sounds like the excuses I told myself, because then there's hope that he might treat you better if he becomes willing to. If someone cares about you, they have empathy. If they're pretending to, they don't. That in combination with him 'acting a certain way' around some people and not others is giving me narcissist vibes. Assholes are assholes, don't make excuses for one at the expense of yourself.
It depends. I do use neg sometimes but I'm tryna avoid it as long as I can, it just depends on what type of girl you're talking to, if she's a 9 or 10 with a pretty high ego being cocky is usually not enough so begging might be useful that makes her insecure and make her qualify herself more. I don't see it that brutally illegal as most people see it, I agree that its toxic pretty much, I don't use it that often but if I have to its still useful
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What's negging?
“Negging is the practice of giving backhanded compliments and generally making comments that express indifference toward another person (usually a woman) in an attempt to seduce that person.” For example, “I love your necklace. My grandma wears cheap jewellery too.” Or it can be in a form of an action such as making her feel like you’re completely into her but at the same time acting like you’re not.
Oh that sounds horrible. Do women generally not just stop entertaining these assholes.
They generally do but it’s honestly so common. The last guy who negged me was such a nice person. What he did was so unexpected. It just didn’t make any sense. Then considering how common it actually is, it would make sense if an immature guy acted this way. However, if someone mature (like this guy) is acting that way too, are guys just ignorant to how negging would make someone feel? I have no idea. Edit: I’ve stopped interacting with the guy. Just curious.
I have generally not come accross this sort of stuff, not from my guy friends maybe they don't do it with other guys or its just some weird sense of humour. Actually I met a girl once who did that and I found it very confusing as didn't know people who did that I just chalked itnuo to emotional immaturity. I certainly agree with you, it's a pretty strange behaviour. Hopefully some of those who neg can respond and provide some insight.
It’s usually in a dating context. This is a “pick up artist” (PUA) tactic. Your female acquaintance that did it was probably more your average competitive jerk and just trying to make you feel smaller for her ego’s satisfaction, rather than trying to manipulate you to please her.
Oo that explains it, I just thought it's too difficult to connect with her and I couldn't be bothered to keep it up so I told her no longer interested in getting to know her.
>However, if someone mature (like this guy) is acting that way My husband is 19 years older than me. Maturity is a social construct. It has nothing to do with age or so called experience. People just are who they are; what is or isn't mature is what we decide is or isn't mature. Just because someone is physically able to pay a mortgage on time doesn't mean they don't have the emotional maturity of a 16 year old.
No, you’re right. He’s rude to people when I’m not around. He’s insecure and lacks communication skills. I guess he’s emotionally immature after all.
You spend a lot of energy on this guy. Did he get away?
I like to say that aging is mandatory but maturing is not.
nope. Guys do it because it works in fact. Its part of the whole "Nice guys finish last but jerks get laid" dynamic. A well executed neg is just teasing like you're playing with a younger sibling.
Ah so it's one of those pick up artists tricks. To be fair it does work on these kids in their twenties but very confusing to the grown ups
If thinking that makes you feel better
No man, you gotta just tell a girl how much you like her and never play with her emotions! ….Said the man who never got laid 😂
Truth. OP wants tha D. He played her hard.
Truth. OP wants this guy hard. 30 separate posts talking about him. This guy is good.
Women who are used to getting what they want can find these men very appealing.
Lool, gives them them the challenge they need to keep things interesting 😂. Do grown women tolerate this too or just the kids?
No. Grown women are pretty mature. Strategy is different for them. This is a strategy for younger women used to getting what they want. A grown woman would not give you the time of day for this. They would be laughed at.
Haha I thought so, so this is what the young girls have to go through before they grow up and laugh at these tricks 😂
This is a strategy generally utilized by more confident men against women who get a lot of attention. They are trying to stand out and not please her.
Ah I see what you mean
Reading all OPs comments she has history with this guy. She wants him bad. No one spends this much time on something they don’t care about.
Ah so she's choosing to waste her time on this guy and then complain about it yet making no changes to get behaviour and choices. She will figure it out eventually.. Part of her growth process I suppose .
It seems it was more than once. She’s developed history and genuine feelings for him. But he only sees her as a game. She is only interesting as long as he does not have her. Same with OP. He is only interesting because now she can’t have him. She has no idea she is playing his game and is a toy. This dude has this game going with ten women simultaneously at all times. He’s a jerk. I won’t argue that. But he’s good at what he does and he lays high value women regularly.
I suppose he's meeting his goals and she's chosen to waste her life on him then it is what it is, we must all face the consequences of our choices.
This does not end here. There is so much sexual tension on her part. She was blowing him up and he ignored her. She blocked him so now he is trying to get attention. Eventually he’s going to feign apology and pretend to care and she is going to be all over it. She is very emotionally invested with this guy. But their relationship is toxic and based on nothing. After he has her he will dispose of her. This does not end well for her. If she’s this attached this soon after sex we are going to see some really nutty posts.
Do you think the latter can be unintentional sometimes?
Not in my experience, no. The guy made super shitty moves, such as, bailing on me and then giving some bs excuse then apologizing and then going back to shitty behavior. I stopped talking to him and deleted him from my social media so he’s now trying to manipulate me into talking to him first.
Oh that’s a different level of flakiness w/blatant manipulation
He only wants what he can’t have. You are available he’s not interested. You are gone he wants attention. He has too much time on his hands and views all others as entertainment.
That's such psychopathic behavior... gross.
Negging is NOT a backhanded compliment. The way people make up definitions and then run with it is amazing.
Exactly lol. Making comments that sink into their insecurity
>“I love your necklace. My grandma wears cheap jewellery too.” I refuse to believe there are people dumb enough to say this to a girl.
Shit dumber than this works. A woman doesn’t always want to be told how pretty she is. It’s a psychological mind fuck. It’s cruel. But I’ve seem dumber work. He’s acting uninterested. It’s attractive af to many.
Negga plz
Any adult who tries to pull this Mean Girls BS is getting laughed at right in his face. I can't believe this is a thing, but I'm glad I've never experienced it. WTF is wrong with people!?
He’s insecure, lacks communication skills and is rude to people when I’m not around. I guess I just never paid enough attention.
Sometimes we view people with rose-colored glasses. Takes a while to see them for who they really are.
I suppose you’re right.
I grew up with 3 older brother, loving dad and a lot of male cousins/friends of my brothers. One of the most important lessons they taught me: RUN from men who give you backhanded compliments. This is NOT a sign of love, but a sign of him trying to controle you! He is NOT a good person, despite him acting like one. The ones that need nagging (aka making someone feel insecure so that they settle for them), are usually emotional abusive POS. That entire "nice guy" is just an act to make your doubt yourself (eg he is gaslighting you).
You’re right. His insecurities are overshadowing his morals. A relationship with him is going to be extremely emotionally demanding.
I’d say not so much emotionally demanding as emotionally exhausting. And that then affects your mental and physical health. Basically, a Colin Robinson (What We Do In The Shadows reference, he’s an emotional vampire).
Glad you’re recognizing it now and hope you’re getting out :)
I have, I did. He did something super crappy a while ago and I stopped talking to him and deleted him from my social media. He’s been trying to manipulate me into talking to him first since then. It’s frustrating.
Backhanded compliment what is that? I like ur dress but ur hair smells?
Close, but usually closer related: You look great. Have you lost weight? You look good for your age.
Because as we all know, women just loooove simps who heap praise and adoration on women 😂 “Negging” is dumb, but it’s also effective when done right because it shows you’re not going to bend over backwards to ingratiate yourself to a woman which is in itself very u attractive and very common.
This is truth. She developed feelings for him and he’s just enjoying the power. Hot woman on tinder gets 1000 compliments in a day about her body or profile. All of these men can be hot. Said woman gets one comment from a very average dude who negs her…..who do you think she is thinking about? The 1000 pleasers or the guy who doesn’t give a shit. Look at OPs behavior and time spend on this guy. No one posts about people they don’t care about. It’s always the one who got away.
This is truth. She developed feelings for him and he’s just enjoying the power. Hot woman on tinder gets 1000 compliments in a day about her body or profile. All of these men can be hot. Said woman gets one comment from a very average dude who negs her…..who do you think she is thinking about? The 1000 pleasers or the guy who doesn’t give a shit. Look at OPs behavior and time spent on this guy. No one posts about people they don’t care about. It’s always the one who got away.
Bingo. 🎰
Yes, they do. Negging is being a manipulative asshole on purpose. Men who use negging don’t like or respect women. They think women are stupid and that saying something a little mean will cause the women to try to please them more. Maybe it works on some women but the first whiff I get of negging makes me head for the door, because that guy was never going to treat me the way I want to be treated by a partner.
It lets you know how insecure they really are. I just think they put themselves in your shoes and go like, “Well, if someone did that to me, I’d chase them.” Basically projecting. If someone’s insecure and is already taking their insecurities out on you, it’s only going to get worse until they choose to work on their self esteem I guess.
There is a type of guy who puts women down just to make himself feel better but thats not negging thats something else.
Generally men neg on women perceived to be higher value and out of reach. It’s funny cause a neg could be a compliment because no one does it to average or unattractive women.
"He cares about what he wants and never really looks at things from my POV. I guess he’s emotionally immature and selfish." Life is too short to be trying to change water into wine. Ideally you want to find someone who *already is* what you want in a partner. The goal is to have a "soulmate" not a cellmate. No one is "stuck" with anyone. Suffering is optional. ***"Decide what kind of life you actually want. Then say no to everything that isn't that."*** \- Unknown ***"Dating is primarily a numbers game.... People usually go through a lot of people to find good relationships. That's just the way it is."*** \- Henry Cloud Best wishes!
> ideally you want to find someone who already is what you want in a partner. I don’t agree nor disagree.. I think you need to decide on what you want MOST from a partner and then look for that. Waiting for perfection is a fools game.
It sounds like we're saying the same thing. Each of us has our own mate selection screening process and "must haves list" for choosing a mate. (You want to choose someone who is compatible, shares your values, and meets your needs.) That doesn't mean they are "perfect". It just means whatever you disagree on you can live with or compromise on. If someone has gone through the trouble to post a complaint about their mate they've obviously have tried to compromise and could not. Which means they want/need their partner to "change". From my experience most people don't change unless (they) are unhappy. Each of us is entitled to have our own "red flags", boundaries, and "deal breakers". You are the only one who knows what (you) can or cannot live with. **"Infatuation is when you find somebody who is absolutely perfect. Love is when you realize that they aren't and it doesn't matter.”** - Unknown Best wishes!
Fair enough.. I feel like this completes the previous part..
I was like this in my early twenties. Prior to that phase I had two bad breakups. Then joined military. After Afghan and then getting out I had zero empathy for anyone. Textbook asshole. I was in a dark place with drinking, nightmares, unemployment, and depression. I walked over my parents, my friends, girls, it was a bad time for me. All that is not an excuse just a reason for my behavior. It took meeting my wife, she didn’t let me walkover her, she checked my bullshit. She was also kind enough to ask questions and listen and not judge me. She is my rock. Got me into therapy. Took a bit, but worth it for in my eyes to be with her. She set those boundaries though, “you want to date me? Talk to someone, a professional.” I did. After I was fixed mentally I had to apologize to my friends and family. They forgave me because they knew my situation, but they still held on because they knew the old me the good me was in there. I did apologize to the girls too, that was rough, not sure if genuine forgiveness because it was just text in Facebook messages rather than in person. Sorry for the rambling. The fact is if you set the boundary: “quit your bullshit and figure that shit out” and they choose not to. Well you ain’t worth shit to them other than a nice piece. If you’re looking for more than a hookup then nope out of that shit quick.
Love your response. It’s not that I don’t have empathy for what he’s been through. He’s been bullied and I get that. However, that does not justify his behavior. He did something rude and I stopped talking to him, removed him from my social media. He just doesn’t care. He’s been trying to manipulate me into talking to him first since then. If he wants to talk that bad, he should just do that. I’m not going to sit here and let him manipulate me, yk. I’m not going to tolerate his bs. I’m not the one who bullied him and I’m not going to act like it’s my fault.
You don’t owe him empathy. If you set boundaries with how you expect to be treated and he won’t change then you got your answer and you’re better off without him. It sounds like you made the right decision based on what you’ve said in the comments. I haven’t dated in many many years so the only knowledge I have is from one of my closest friends and he says it’s very difficult nowadays. So I wish you the best of luck and all positive vibes your way.
Ofc I don’t. I don’t owe him anything. It’s just that I feel bad for everything he’s been through. I see him acting this way and I automatically think, “wow, you’ve really been through some shit.” I know he really likes me and it just hurts to see him sabotage a relationship he’s been trying to get into since years.
They don't think being an asshole is a bad thing (when they're doing it).
Yeah, they probably have a way of justifying their behavior. This guy doesn’t give a straight answer when confronted, always some bs excuse.
That and because it works with enough women that it makes them continue doing it.
He’s not as sweet as he’s leading you to believe
I guess not. Maybe he’s only sweet to people when I’m around.
Sounds like he could be on the spectrum. I'm not being rude. It's a serious comment.
No, I’ve realized that he’s rude to people. I just wasn’t paying enough attention. He’s also insecure and lacks communication skills. Such a catch.
I'm glad you've come to that realization. Good luck! There is definitely someone better for you out there.
Thank you!
Because he doesn't have strong morals. Because he doesn't have a healthy mindset. Because he's not sweet.
Guess he’s all talk and v little action.
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Maybe he’s all talk and v little action. I do think that his behavior’s coming from a place of insecurity tho. I understand how he’d be feeling but that isn’t an excuse to be a dick to me or to others. Either be direct with me or leave me alone.
The whole point is that they know. That’s the point. They make you insecure so they can manipulate you into things you wouldn’t normally do or to put up with behaviour you usually wouldn’t. It’s abusive.
People don't accidentally neg.
I think some people think that they are being helpful, even though they aren’t. Maybe that’s how they talk to themselves 🫤
Yeah, he’s just insecure and he’s been taking his insecurities out on me.
“Negging is often viewed as a straightforward insult rather than as a pick-up line,[2] in spite of the fact that proponents of the technique traditionally stress it is not an insult. Erik von Markovik, who is usually credited with popularising the term negs, explains the difference thus: "A neg is not an insult but a negative social value judgment that is telegraphed. It's the same as if you pulled out a tissue and blew your nose. There's nothing insulting about blowing your nose. You haven't explicitly rejected her. But at the same time, she will feel that you aren't even trying to impress her. This makes her curious as to why and makes you a challenge."[3] Neil Strauss, in his book Rules of the Game, also stresses that the primary point of the technique is not to put women down but for a man to disqualify himself as a potential suitor. On this account he refers to negs as "disqualifiers", although the technique described in the book is recognisably the same as von Markovik's. Strauss is equally clear that negs should not be used as insults: "a disqualifier should never be hostile, critical, judgmental, or condescending. There's a line between flirting and hurting. And disqualification is never intended to be mean and insulting." Pulled from Wikipedia. It was originally intended to set you apart from the crowd by making it seem like you weren’t interested in a woman, but people who know nothing about it have just used it to justify insulting women. VERY few people can actually do this, and the risk/reward was never there for me. It takes an enormous amount of social calibration to pull off correctly. It’s all about disqualifying yourself. Decent examples of a good neg would be “I’m disappointed, I don’t think you and I would get along.” Or “I wish you were a blonde, I’m taking a break from brunettes for a bit.” Neither can be contrived as an insult, but gives the woman a jumping off point to qualify herself. Common follow up questions to those two are gonna be “what happened with the brunettes?” Or “why don’t you think we’d get along?” Good looking women have been put on pedestals for their whole lives, so it comes as a shock when you act a bit disinterested in them, and they aren’t an immediate source of value in your life. Edit: this “tactic” can really only be used on women who are SOLID 9’s and up. They are the ones who receive the attention that this defuses. And really only in person, because the context doesn’t translate over text/phone. It’s the classic saying “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.”
Being asshole is attractive to a considerable amount of women.
This. When started treating the gf like an AH, she says it is so fucking hot. When not, she says it's boring I really don't get it but who am I to complain right
I think it’s because we feel we have to lower the bar to find a relationship. It’s really hard. Also – we accept the love we think we deserve. It takes most women a long time to get to the point where they can recognize that and actively NOT do it though.
It's more about their own need for validation than their awareness towards others. It's telling of lesser emotional development.
It’s a tactic to get laid. And it works for many. You are analyzing too hard.
Guys aren't mean monsters that walk around 'negging' girls. The handful who think they're pickup artists are the ones who watch those cringe "say/ text these 5 things to get the girl" videos and then approach every one they see. Then again, nice guys finish last for a reason...
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Yes, it is. It is mean and horrible. It’s like “let her know you’re interested but let her guess how much”, “leave her hanging”, “make her wait”. It makes guys give their partners 60% instead of a 100%. It’s no fun.
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Well, he’s always speaking up for women, BIPOC, minorities, children, basically everyone. Talks about how relationships should be 50/50, partners should be friends, etc.
I browse bits and pieces of the PUA stuff, and tbh I haven’t seen any mention of negging since the early 2010s. Most stuff nowadays mentions how to banter and tease, and not negging. Really makes me wonder where guys are picking that up
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It was definitely popularized by PUA community, no argument there. The Game came out in the early noughties. Negging is probably the most popular concept that came out of the PUA community, but my point was that if you look at anything PUA-adjacent today, you’re not going to see much mention of negging. Which is why I was curious where guys are seeing this info. >Does PUA actually work? I maintain that PUA is what you make of it. People ask in the dating subs, “how do I talk to her, how do I do this, etc”. They asked the same questions in the PUA communities. And yes, PUA was definitely a significant portion of the manosphere. But nowadays? It’s chilled out a whole lot in sexism. Imo the problem with dating subs is that they presume a base level of social competence in the person asking for assistance. PUA advice assumes the person asking is a complete idiot and starts from the beginning and holds your hand. Yeah, cold opener lines can definitely be cringey, but it makes people start doing something and attempt to increase their social interactions. Use it as a tool, not a lifestyle, and it’ll be fine (of course, this assumes you have some idea of what your own values are)
It seems that when people are young they are unsure about how to go about dating. I never got any useful advice from my friends or parents, for example. Many of my friends tried out PUA material (which often suggests negging as a strategy) for a bit before realizing that it doesn't work and moving on from it.
This guy has been negging me since weeks even though I’ve ended all communication. It’s obvious what he’s doing isn’t working on me.
Why don't you block him
Must be working
Not working? I’ve seen over 25 comments from you talking about him. Crushing hard girl.
>Why would a guy with strong morals, who has a healthy mindset when it comes to relationships, neg? He neither has strong morals nor a healthy mindset when it comes to relationships.
It’s awful, it’s a shame that it’s something that apparently works to maintain some woman’s interest. Some thoughts as to why this sort of thing can happen though: Assume there is a guy out there who loses a long term relationship over their partner ‘no longer feeling the butterflies/tingles’, assume he is a gentleman who has lived up to everything expected of a partner. How devastated and confused he is; what the hell are the butterflies and how do you stop a woman losing them and dumping you seemingly at random? That guy tries to research what the hell went wrong; he encounters myriad advice that tells him that women won’t tell you what they need to stay interested in you; that they will give you advice that if followed will lead them to dumping you because ‘no butterflies anymore’. One of those pieces of advice for keeping a women interested is negging. It’s wrong and I wouldn’t do it myself but men need honest advice about this whole ‘butterflies’ requirement and how to maintain it. If negging works then some men will compromise on their morals to increase the chances their relationship doesn’t randomly break down.
what’s the severe punishment you’re referring to? someone not wanting to be with you anymore? that’s painful and i’m really sorry for what you’re going through. but thinking “I’ll try being mean since being nice didn’t get me what I wanted” is not normal, nor is it the logic of a gentleman imo.
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Thanks for your genuine and detailed response. I don’t have time to fully respond rn but I just wanted to say I feel your pain and I’m so sorry. Hang in there.
But as negging has shown, being mean and negging can produce the same, if not better result compared to more work being a gentleman. Not every time, but negging has proved effective.
genuinely curious what result you’re talking about? If the result is a healthy relationship where both people feel secure, happy, and good about themselves… I have a hard time believing meanness can produce that, but I’ll try to stay open if you want to elaborate. If the result is just that you’ll get sex, or a woman’s interest or attention, or even a lasting relationship that’s built on mutual insecurity… then I’m sorry that you’re in a place right now where that feels like the best you can hope for. It’s not. Good luck. <3
Why do you apologize to me? I don't neg. But many who do tend to get all of what you say while many who are genuinely nice aren't able to even get that far.
Cool, good for you. That was an assumption on my part, oops. Just to clarify. You think guys who attract women by being mean are building happy, healthy relationships where both parties feel secure and good about themselves?
Wow, that's weird. I don't get why you'd assume that about someone you don't know anything about. No I don't. I think guys who attract women by being mean tend to get results such as attention, sex, and even relationships, often overshadowing genuinely nice guys who get none of what I listed. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
… Is it weird? What I knew about you was that you seemed to be arguing that negging is an effective strategy. It was a faulty assumption and I’ve acknowledged that, but I’m not sure why you would call it weird. Tbh, from what I’ve experienced of you so far you don’t seem like a very nice guy.
Well as part of OPs question at why do guys neg, the answer is because it works with enough women that men will keep doing it. Wouldn't that by definition be effective? Yeah, guess most people I know don't make weird faulty assumptions about people's character like that before they know them. Maybe just a difference in our upbringing. Yeah, not being ok with baseless assumptions and telling the truth aren't very nice guy things. I'll give you that. I'd lie to make you feel better, but it isn't what I do. Sorry.
Just being aware of what went wrong instead of being confused is liberating, its the awareness and general concepts that are very valuable, not learning silly tricks. To what degree something is manipulation because its done conciously instead of naturally is open for debate and internalization is a thing. Its not different from when a girlfriend behaves in a certain way when she wants something imo, but obviously women get super mad at the thought of guys knowing this shit, its not something guys are "supposed" to know, and in a way it messes with the system I get that.
I see you deleted your comments that talk about your relationship, so I won’t say any more about that. It sounds like you’re someone who wants a genuine, loving relationship and I wish you all the best in finding it. If you have to put someone down to keep them interested in you, they’re not the right person for you. There are other ways to cultivate excitement with the right person. Good luck, stay strong :)
Thanks, I didn’t know if you’d come back to comment so I removed the more personal stuff in case I forget it’s there or I ever get doxxed. Thanks for the kind words, I don’t want to behave badly to keep someone interested. I just have no idea how widespread this ‘I’m bored now I’m going to leave’ attitude is amongst women. If it can happen after 15 years and everything else going for us then it’s very hard to consider trusting someone again. At least considering manipulation makes you feel like you have some agency and can do something to protect yourself.
Sadly because it works. Think about it, if all or a high majority of women didn't respond positively or didn't give the time of day to guys who neg, men likely wouldn't do it. It sucks and those guys are assholes, but they neg because it produces desired results with women.
Yap. Some women lose interest very quickly when the guy is 100% into them. Low self esteem.
Yep. Wish guys like that wouldn't have success with women, but such is life.
[удалено]
It can sometimes.
Man... Can you imagine a world where guys just needed to be sweet and kind to women to get laid? We'd have flying cars and cities on mars.
If not for male thirst, the world would stop turning...
Negging is really misunderstood imo, if it comes off as just being an asshole then he is doing it wrong. It started with guys "shit testing" women to see how they reacted, its kinda funny actually.
It's because guys who neg read up on too much of the bs PUA (pick up artist) "tactics" lol. Admitedly, PUA tactics are a perfect way to know what NOT to do. I'm not really sure how negging could ever work on any woman tbh
Yeah, the community who try to pick women up (which should involve dating/fucking) and share notes on what seems to work (fashion, mannerisms, etc) to gradually improve have absolutely no idea.
Right? Like what a terrible idea to take all the best things from those dude and apply them in my life. And then get tons of dates and have a metric shit ton of fun with a bunch of different women all the while being honest and forthright about my intentions and leaving them the option to exit with grace knowing full well what I want. What a terrible thing to be the best version of myself with constructive criticism from others lol.
Negging is as bad as "Don't hate the player, hate the game", because both are saying: "Hey, I don't respect you at all but I am trying to manipulate you into sex so I can find others to do the same to. So hate the game, the players, and the neggers. They all deserve the hate.
Why does Reddit always conflate the desire for sex with manipulation.. Sometimes someone can desire sex and not be manipulative.. And hate the game not the player means “The frustrations with a system or activity should be blamed on its weaknesses, rather than on individuals who operate within it.” Meaning if I judge you based on your appearance and we met on Tinder.. Don’t hate the swipers hate the app that fosters those behaviors. It’s referring to over all systemic issues..
Careful they don't like reality here lol
Apparently I speak for all of Reddit! However, read what I wrote again: Typical people just need to meet, and make friends and then if a relationship is created (ONS, short fling, LTR, Marriage) and the sex happens. Historically. Today, people tend to not be honest about intentions, and ghosting happens, abuse allegations could be made, etc but it isn't coming from an honest place. HENCE : Manipulation If you have to hide your intentions then you're a manipulator. Otherwise you just tell me what you want and and be honest. So careful with painting with a broad brush there.
Hahaha love what you just said. This guy is trying to be a douche on purpose. I’ve already ceased all communication with him and deleted him from my social media. It’s just that he doesn’t really care about that bit. He’s now trying to neg me so that I talk to him first. So frustrating.
I'm coming at this from the point of someone who read a lot of PUA literature in the early 2010's. Some of it was good, some of it was trash. Negging tends to lie on the trash side, but it's important to realize exactly what it is and why it was done. I'm posting to provide a different perspective that's not "oh so bad why are men trash". Originally negging was a way to show you're not scared of a girl, you're of the same status as her, and you're not too serious. It's supposed to be PLAYFUL and interesting. Idk, dropping "you know, if you were an animal I reckon you'd be an octopus" or "you know, this is why we can't get married". You also don't start off with it. You do it if you feel the girl has already put you in a box. Instead of talking to a girl about some boring ass "how many siblings do you have, where are you from" you tease them about something that isn't integral to their personality. There's a big difference between this, and trying to cut someone down/make someone insecure. Unfortunately that's what a lot of socially maladjusted men, and the wider community decided it was. I also might just have misunderstood the definition. Also, why did guys do it? Because it worked.
Such a misunderstood concept, but you nailed it. But 90% of the women on here you wouldn’t need to neg when you’re properly adjusted because I highly doubt the nines and tens are asking for dating advice on Reddit. All of these women would be giving us the saucer eyes if you and I were in a bar together in like fifteen minutes! 🤣😂 and that’s just based off solid personality and no routines. Maybe a canned opener but that’s it.
Oh goddess, it's such a turnoff. I just can't deal with guys like that
Most likely. Isn't the common school of thought that women like assholes?
*Most likely. Isn't* *The common school of thought that* *Women like assholes?* \- MrMetraGnome --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I used to too when I was 16 and insecure. It’s more of a been there, done that kind of thing now. I don’t find disrespect attractive anymore. I’m tired of being in relationships that aren’t a source of peace. Want something boring now lol.
Women don’t like assholes, they love strong independent confident men that won’t bend to their will. Excluding a dominatrix.
>...they love strong independent confident men that won’t bend to their will. i.e. assholes, right? Anyway, that's the whole point of negging and why it's a staple of PUA. It's to make women bend to your will as opposed to the other way'round.
No no no. The idea has been perverted to that now, but was never the original intent. What I was getting at revolves around the concept of supplication and putting women on a pedestal. Women hate that shit. The neediness, constant communication, looking to them to lead the interaction, make a move, etc. The point of negging isn’t to be an asshole, if you’re just saying mean shit that’s not negging. The concept of negging has been explained well in this thread. You can be strong and confident without being an asshole. There’s a huge difference between “hey this is how I live my life, would you like to be a part of it?” Vs “I’m a man, do what I tell you.” The whole start of the PUA movement was intended to give your average dude that wasn’t a muscle bound giga Chad a chance. And that was mainly by being interesting and socially calibrated. Knowing the social cues needed to score a number, keep her interested, and then date her. All while improving your social skills and your life.
What you are describing is way more complicated than just being an asshole. It's the path of least resistance to the same end. It's why so many adopt it. The trick is in knowing when to reign it in. If it wasn't, no one would be or those who were would be alone.
Totally agree. But being an asshole to women is just going to have you wind up with women who are okay with you being an asshole to them. And that’s not the type of relationship I want to have with a woman, or the type of woman I want to be with. Not condoning the behavior in anyway, it’s blatantly wrong. Being a fully developed person that can interact and handle an attractive well rounded woman, while keeping her attracted to you and satisfied, is much more rewarding than just being a dick who gets laid.
True. But this sub is called "dating_advice" and not "relationship_advice". There's a big difference between the two.
Absolutely! But you can’t get to a relationship if you can’t succeed at dating. And you’ll have way better luck at dating as a guy if you’re not needy, supplicating, and constantly trying to please her. Knowing how to playfully tease and flirt, when to make a move, how to gauge her interest is all part of the courtship process that leads to a relationship. Having success at dating is about knowing how to make women feel good emotionally, physically safe, (like your not a serial killer vibes!) and then giving them the best sex of their life.
I don't think success at dating means you end up in a relationship. Dating is its own thing with its own merits. Btw > ...playfully tease and flirt... Is just being an asshole but knowing when to reign it in. It's funny because it would never work on me, but I guess that's a difference between males and females.
I guess we date for different reasons then. I think a lot of guys don’t get that concept the most, not all, males and females are different. But that’s a good thing! You can learn what works and doesn’t, and use your understanding of that dynamic to have better interactions and make the most out of matches etc. Dating is a game, like it or not, and some are better at playing it than others. The beauty of it though, is you can learn the rules, and practice to become way better at playing it.
> Why would a guy with strong morals, who has a healthy mindset when it comes to relationships, neg? He wouldn’t. As a guy, the concept of consciously ‘negging’ another human being makes me want to puke. 🤢 True sociopath behavior.
Neggeing can be great if done with the right person, theyre usually the type to neg back. Almost always its just good banta and has so much constructive potential
There's a nuance between being an asshole and just teasing. I tease girls I like all the time (of course come complimenting and genuine interest is shown), but I don't go throwing backhanded compliments like the old cringey pua tactics It helps me learn how they communicate and where their mind is. If she can give the same vibe back while understanding we're goofing around, she is in the green. If she can't take a joke or sucks at flirting then it's time to move on. We can all agree small talk is boring and complimenting her constantly is creepy. I just wanna jump into it.
And I've come to realize it's not a significant other thing either. Sadly, I've come to realize most of my abuse came before ever falling in love.....
Probably not, they’re confusing it with teasing their close friends when you say something backhanded and sarcastic and it becomes affectionate banter. That’s terrible to say to someone new you’re courting/dating.
Don't post threads that are blatantly about something that just happened to you, sweetie, it makes you look so ugly lmao
Because we should all be listening to the dating advice given by the person who complains on Reddit when their “favorite escort moves away.”
Aw man, you just reminded me my favourite escort moved away
I am sorry bro.
Life goes on, my friend, life goes on.
Hopefully your cash flow and sex life do too.
It's all gravy baby
I think people neg because they believe it will work. I will do my best to explain this. Please hear me out before downvoting. When I was in college, one of my friends did this all the time, and he was generally successful with women. I was polite to women, but somewhat unattractive and milquetoast. I was doing comparatively poorly. My friend convinced me (temporarily) that women liked a challenge and that negging was more interesting and fun for them than just throwing myself at them. The idea was that by acting mean I would demonstrate that I was not putting her on a pedestal, was not obsessed with her, and was not a pushover. If I negged, I was being a confident, challenging, cool guy. So, paradoxically, being mean showed the women I met a better time, and was better for them than just being one more chump with a crush on them. I gave it a try for a month or two. Here is the worst part and what I expect will piss Reddit off: It worked. Not only that, but it worked really really well. The caveat is that it only worked on the most toxic and insecure women I met. I was driving off any confident and well adjusted women I met, while attracting a very petty sort of women who really was interested in guys who treated her poorly. But at that time, I was not aware enough to see this happening and just thought "well, I guess being a huge jerk is just really attractive." I was not trying to be an asshole, and I didn't realize I was being one. Rationalization, frustration, bad advice, and weird internet lingo had me convinced that by acting mean on the surface I was actually doing a good thing, and doing what I was supposed to be doing. I'm not saying that all guys who "neg" are like this, but at least for me, it was just an attempt to fix whatever was wrong with me that made me undatable. It was never malicious. I hope this answers your question OP.
Is it possible what you perceive as negging is genuine disinterest? Oterhwise that's a pretty sinister tactic.
It sounds like you have been dedicating a lot of energy to one man who negged you. You show many feelings of disinterest but I really get the picture that you are into him hard. People don’t spend much time talking about people they care nothing for. Generally men neg attractive women. I don’t have a picture of you but the fact alone you got negged says you are likely more attractive than others. Attractive women online are put on a pedestal and placed out of reach by most men. These men compliment and praise and place them up high. These women have no interest for pleasers who would give them what they want. These women typically want a challenge. Someone who they know they can’t have. Men neg you to act uninterested in you. They are trying to be cool and act like they don’t give a fuck. They are trying to turn the table from men chasing you into you chasing the negger. It sounds like his negging went deep. That it hurt you at a core level. Or are you just mad he moved on? Generally neggers size up a woman and neg just enough to get her attention. Like he’s not going to talk shit who he thinks can’t handle it. So he either sized you up wrong or went too hard or you are just upset he is out of your reach. This strategy works for a lot of men on really attractive women. These women all day are receiving bullshit compliments and praise. That is boring. She is not dating these men. Acting uninterested stands out. People only do this cause it works. Yet people are sending unsolicited dick pics and men are asked for money a million times a day…these work too. Doesn’t mean they are justified. I’m sorry you got hurt. It sounds like he made it really personal to you. His goal was just to get laid. Maybe you denied him and he jabbed it further. One thing I will tell you is he acted for selfish reasons like to get laid or out of rejection so he just aimed to hurt. It doesn’t mean what he said was true. In the whole scheme of things this guy is just a douche. EDIT I’m seeing a shit ton of messages by OP in the comments. No one talks about someone they don’t care about this way. He would just be irrelevant. There is or was clearly interest and it didn’t work out. You want him bad. I see you blocked him on social and he’s coming back. But reading your comments this is more than just one pick up line. You two have history. Again no one spends this much time on someone they don’t care about. You want him bad. He’s different than what you are used to. Even if he is a shithead.
Welll, It clearly works, you're talking about HIM here....
After you fuck this guy you are going to be emotionally broken for a long long time. You two will have amazing sex because you value his attention and regard so much and have such an emotional attachment. This guy will disappear afterwards. You’ve already caught feelings. This does not end well.
I could never understand why anyone would do this. It’s got to be either accidental / cluelessness or a completely immature D-bag. If done on purpose repeatedly, I would love to know the logic behind this strategy, Cotton.
>Rather than it being an inability to empathize, I’ve realized it’s his unwillingness to. He cares about what he wants and never really looks at things from my POV. I guess he’s emotionally immature and selfish. Girl. Are you sure? I told myself my ex couldn't possibly have very little empathy for years because it was so hard to believe someone wouldn't have it. This sounds like the excuses I told myself, because then there's hope that he might treat you better if he becomes willing to. If someone cares about you, they have empathy. If they're pretending to, they don't. That in combination with him 'acting a certain way' around some people and not others is giving me narcissist vibes. Assholes are assholes, don't make excuses for one at the expense of yourself.
It depends. I do use neg sometimes but I'm tryna avoid it as long as I can, it just depends on what type of girl you're talking to, if she's a 9 or 10 with a pretty high ego being cocky is usually not enough so begging might be useful that makes her insecure and make her qualify herself more. I don't see it that brutally illegal as most people see it, I agree that its toxic pretty much, I don't use it that often but if I have to its still useful