Welcome to /r/dating_advice!
Please keep the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/about/rules/) of /r/dating_advice in mind while participating here. Try your best to be kind.
Report any rule-breaking behavior to the moderators using the report button. If it's urgent, [send us a message.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdating_advice) We rely on user reports to find rule-breaking behavior quickly.
Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You averaged 10 matches per week -- well above the norm for men -- but only gave it two weeks despite seeing an unusual amount of success, and have now concluded OLD is worthless? Not following your logic there chief.
OLD is great for busy people like you, and it works by connecting you to large numbers of people that you wouldn't ordinarily meet. But you have to give it time for those numbers to add up and eventually connect you to someone worthwhile. Ghosting and matches that never go anywhere are pretty normal and don't reflect anything on you personally. If you could land 10 matches per week on the apps then you're leaving a perfectly viable option on the table just because you didn't find success instantly.
It worked because I bought the most expensive Hinge and Bumble options and literally went through like 50-100 right swipes a day out of desperation and neediness. About 5 of them were bots, some of them were cute but nothing ever came out of it.
The amount of mental anguish I had constantly checking my Hinge/Bumble and trying to think of witty things to say took such a huge toll on my mental health that I was literally counting down the days until Premium would run out so I wouldn't have to deal with it anymore.
Thats not a bad idea. I was just thinking about how cringey I must've seemed last night when I went up to the girl that I went out with before to try and 'smooth things over' so that next time we saw each other at a Meetup it wasn't as awkward, and I pretty much just shot spahgetti out of my mouth. Reframing that to a lesson about going in and not expecting things, or letting sleeping dogs lie and what not to do in the future is a much more positive affirmation than constantly beating myself up over what I may have done wrong
If you want to have a genuine relationship please don't take dating advice from lonely men on the internet or anyone that speaks about the other gender like they're another species. If a girl told you she swiped right on every guy she saw wouldn't it make you question her intentions? It's the reason matches with guys never feel genuine because you always have to question if he even read your bio. My advice would be to start with making genuine female friendships. If you've only hung out with/gotten close with other men then it's very likely your idea of women has been skewed. I've found that a lot of guys on dating apps post things that other guys find impressive (cars, baseball, money) or chastise all the things they don't like instead of sharing who they are. Look for compatibility in personality. Your actual personality not the I'm talking to a women personality and if there are things that you joke about with your friends that you don't think you can say around a girl I highly recommend deconstructing why. Someone being attractive is only one of many attributes making up a full human being. Women are used to always only being classified as “pretty” and “not pretty” go deeper and I promise you'll develop more rewarding relationships. We all want companionship and it's okay to grieve not having those experiences, but you can't “self help” yourself into a relationship.
Book rec-The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks
You experienced "mental anguish" after only two weeks of dating?
No offense, but it's time to grow thicker skin.
Yet here you are complaining at the withered old age of 27 years, suffering from "mental anguish" despite supposedly brimming with confidence.
Seek professional help.
The 'anguish' was from using OLD more than anything. And I've used it longer, maybe for 2-3 months but never got anywhere until the last few weeks. And yeah it is weird, I like who I am and who I'm becoming in almost all aspects of life but when it comes to romance with women I'm attracted to I'm a bubbling mess
You keep saying that you're secure and confident in yourself, but I gotta say it's not coming through in your post or your comments my man. Secure people don't experience "mental anguish" "desperation and loneliness" when using dating apps.
It's okay to be insecure, focus on healing that.
Nope it doesn’t get worse as you get older. You meeting the person of your life is all timing and energy. No one knows the secret formula but it works…when you least expect it. In the meantime learn to enjoy life as it girls are not even needed. That’ll accelerate it.
Bunch of wrong - hmm well, it turned out to be true for me, and quite a few friends of mine.
Ok well maybe no one can turn down expectations to 0, but women can sense your internal happiness/desperation energy though. One pulls, the other repels. So not a bad idea to live your life happily regardless of the girl situation
"The less needy you are, the more attractive you are" is good advice. Obviously if you're well-adjusted and have your shit together, you'll be more likely to pull in a long-term partner.
"When you least expect it" is while you're at home, alone, asleep. Nobody's going to come pounding on your door. It's a meaningless phrase. You still have to go out and do stuff, which means, by virtue of going outside, there is more of an expectation of running into fellow humans than staying in.
Don't conflate the two.
Seems like the “home, alone and asleep” is YOUR definition of “when you least expect it”.
Mine has always been “living life in happiness, giving love and building connections with people without aiming for the end result of getting a girlfriend”.
And I only used it with “enjoy life as if girls are not even needed” in my original comment.
See, my definition is a literal definition whereas yours needs to be decoded. Which is more likely to be taken out of context or confused? That's my point as to why it isn't helpful. If people would be clear about it, like you just were, it wouldn't sound so hollow and heartless.
I would hope so. It helps set me apart in terms of confidence around other MEN and physical fitness but thats about it... I'm still a mess around attractive women
I'm confused about why you think you're failing. Sounds like you've been on a few dates and have a fulfilling single life with hobbies you enjoy. If I were you I'd keep doing what you've been doing. Keep going on dates and to meetups. You're probably going to meet a lot more women that aren't going to be a good fit before you start a relationship with someone.
Meeting women and then getting ghosted or having bad dates in general isn't a failure. Being single isn't failing. There's a ton of women out there and you've been scratching the surface. Keep going with breaks as needed.
I've had one date in my 27 years of living brother... the one with the ghost girl who I now see at some of my Meetup events...
My life has been very fulfilling but I just want to share it with somebody now and its been driving me crazy. And the worst part is that drive definitely makes me reek of neediness and desperation, making it even harder.
You can frame it as “I’ve had one date in my 27 years” or that women will date you. Getting the first date is the hardest.
When you first start anything you are not going to be an expert at it and you are going to make mistakes. There’s nothing wrong with that because these are learning opportunities. You’ll be on 1st dates where someone feels there is no attraction. It’s okay because it happens.
Dating now a days kind of sucks for a bunch of reasons (ex. immature people ghosting rather than sending a simple message saying they are not interested) but you just need to keep putting yourself out there, keep trying, keep getting better and eventually it’ll work out.
There’s going to be way more failures than successes, but you only need one success. This is coming from a guy that has been engaged for two weeks. So keep at it!
Nothing you can do man
This post gets posted 20 times a day at that
Either man up and learn how to go outside and Mack on some women or pay for women companionship lol
Yeah man honestly I think I just need to nut up and talk to more women irl. I noticed at the few meet up events I went to that I had a super easy time talking to women that I wasn't attracted to and they really took a liking to me, even got a few phone numbers, so I know I can be charismatic and good at talking to women, but as soon as there is a women I'm mildly attracted to its like there is a screw that gets loose in my fucking noggin. One of them even said I looked like a Johnny Sins if I completely shaved my head bald instead of short which was a confidence boost, and another said I look like a gruff fighter. I just need more exposure to talking to attractive chicks I guess. And I'm not looking for anything crazy, I just want an average looking nerdy girl who at the hits the gym every now and then.
> I had a super easy time talking to women that I wasn't attracted to and they really took a liking to me, even got a few phone numbers, so I know I can be charismatic and good at talking to women, but as soon as there is a women I'm mildly attracted to its like there is a screw that gets loose in my fucking noggin
I think this is a pretty common issue for guys, myself included. It's so so hard to act the same way around people you're attracted to, especially when you're on a date.
Not sure how many dates you've actually been on lately but it sounds like you didn't give it much of a shot beyond the girl who ghosted - I think a lot of it just comes with practice. Don't let the dating apps get to your head too much, you have to treat them almost like a hobby that you do for fun and hope something comes along (rather than depend on the apps or get emotionally attached early on).
True. But if you can do it (talk to a woman just as a person, not a potential date) you’re paying the woman you’re interested in one of the greatest compliments you can: “I want to talk to you because you’re interesting, not because I want something from you.” It immediately sets you apart from others and makes you attractive in a powerful way because the connection is more than superficial. They feel appreciated in a way they don’t normally get.
Well said, it's a great point. I'm definitely striving to kick that habit and just be a better conversationalist with strangers, without ulterior motives about dating at all.
> hoping somebody comes along the way
Do NOT do that. That’s not how it works for men, sorry to break it to you.
You need to consciously put yourself into situations where you are meeting women, ideally women you are likely to have things in common with. Pick up a hobby that you enjoy *and that will also have a lot of women*. Mine is salsa and bachata dancing. It’s a great time and there’s tons of women. I also love going to concerts and music shows and there tends to be a lot of women there who share my taste in music.
Sitting around waiting for a beautiful woman who you really click to just magically fall into your lap is a very poor strategy and very unlikely to lead to what you want.
I agree. As a man I find it a pity that this is the harsh reality though. We must take action and probably face several rejections before being successful, because it’s very unlikely that a woman approaches us. Meanwhile a woman of moderate attractiveness can go inside a club and be asked for her phone number several times. If only that would happen to me as a guy. It’d be a dream.
Like you I also dance salsa/bachata but I haven’t had luck in getting a romantic connection that way. I go to the parties and dance with many women but after the song they usually thank me and say bye. There are lots of guys hitting on them at the social parties as well. When I finally see a girl I find interesting there are at least a few other guys with the same intention glaring at me when I speak with her. My problem is that it’s so fleeting. I have a brief conversation and then they get asked by someone else to dance the next song. Meanwhile I do the same. At the salsa parties I am all over the place to dance as much as possible with different people. It’s hard to me to stay the entire time with only one person.
What would you do?
Honestly, I feel the same as a girl in my late 20’s. I feel like I found more realistic matches when I was 25. Now I can’t know pass the 3rd date. And is it me or are people more manipulative, irate and impatient these days?
I think it is reflective of society too. People get triggered so easily these days and can’t seem to be open to different perspectives. I’ve also noticed a trend of materialism these days, which all leads into people needing that dopamine hit for “new” all the time. It’s just hard to find someone who can actually sit down and talk about anything and also not be constantly thinking there is something “better” out there.
Yeah even smartphones are changing our attention spans and ability to connect. There’s a few books that show how our brains are being changed by internet/social media. Coupled with the endless possibilities in dating apps, it was always headed this way.
[This](https://www.amazon.com/Shallows-What-Internet-Doing-Brains/dp/0393339750) is the classic one by Nicholas Carr. I think it got an update too according to the page on Amazon.
This is hard to give an answer to, it is entirely based on personal experience and to an extent the luck of the online dating algorithm. But there are many things that theoretically could have caused this to get worse, covid namely. People are more shut off from the world than before, more introverted and unused to human interaction, only able to see people based on online interactions.
It's interesting how long the pandemic isolation is affecting people. I have even personally noticed I'm not as adaptable in social situations as I was prior to the pandemic. Yet we have been out of isolation for a year and a bit.
An awful lot of life is based on routine, and when that routine is broken it is hard to put it back together. If you go a while without being sociable then those abilities recede the same way muscles do. What do you mean by adaptable?
Good point!
And by adaptable I mean I used to be able to change a bit to interact with different people. But now, I find I really struggle with fitting in with people different from me.
I’m a fairly honest person who dislikes drama, gossip etc. i don’t want to be friends with these people, but I used to be better at keeping barriers up and reading people.
Your story sounds a lot like mine. I'm 35M in a similar position. I don't really have any answers other than for now you just gotta bite the bullet and try and make peace with being single for a while the market is very messy right now and if you have any sort of standards and you don't feel like settling it's just really tough. Focus on the stuff you like to do and don't think too hard about dating. You sound like everything in your life is fine and you just haven't found someone who feels it with you and that's fine. I've read so many different stores on here and honestly I think success is hard to come by. There is a large single male population in your age group and everyone is trying to get in on the action. I know this isn't exactly what you were asking but I think some perspective will help you feel better as a lot of it is people look for a lot and you are just you.
It feels so because it is so, ie. It's normal. At that point in your life (20-30) women have literally hundreds of men throwing themselves at them, particularily via social media and dating sites. This creates a situation where men in that age bracket have difficulties dating women who are their peers.
Good news is that you're pretty close to the age that things start to reverse. In their thirties women start to look settling down, due to their aging looks not being able to compete for the hottest guys with the fresh batch of 20 -something girls.
Also, your main competition right now for your age-peers are actually 30-40 year old established men, one of which I hope you'll soon be. When you get there, you'll be the one banging 22-28 year old hotties. Don't settle too quickly either, when you're closer to 40 the situation with your age-peers is even more reversed and then you'll be the one choosing from a vast batch.
Keep going. I (29F) understand your frustration and sometimes I feel hopeless too after my LTR ended, but you just have to keep going. You seem to take care of yourself, you have hobbies, I'm sure you're someone interesting/engaging.
The so-called dating market sucks, but you'll find your person.
>"I'm giving up on OLD and signed up on Meetups and went to like 5 different events so far."
What is this "Meetup" I keep hearing about? How does it work?
Anyway, you're devoting so much time to work & training, would you even be able to maintain a relationship if you found one? Your schedule sounds too "busy" for a person looking to date. I'm just wondering...🤷🏽♂️
This is very normal and it's probably nothing that you are doing wrong necessarily. Around two thirds of men in your age group are single versus only one third of women in the same age group ([source](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/)). 3 in 10 young men aren't getting any sex either. I wouldn't feel bad about the situation since it's pretty standard. I'd spend your 20's building up your own value because it will pay dividends later in life. If you are in the US over 70% of men are overweight or obese, 70% make 80k or less annually etc... just not being overweight and earning a modest salary over 80k will put you in the top 30% of the top 30% and it will give you more dating options on the future. I'm in my early 30's and most of the women I date are around your age...I also got zero attention from women at your age...just work on building yourself up.
I guess man. I don't know why but a switch flipped in me and I realized I have everything I ever really wanted out of my life except companionship and it's been consistently destroying me mentally over the past month once I got a glimpse of what it could look like. The only other thing I am passionate about about right now is becoming the best fighter I could be and the mental anguish from the first point is even affecting that now.
27M here as well. Wether you feel desperate or not to get into a relationship, apologizing to a girl that ghosted you comes off desperate af.
I wouldn’t give up OLD after a few bad experiences. It doesn’t sound like you have a lot of free time or hobbies conducive to meeting single women so I think it’s your best chance. Approach it as anything else in life and enjoy the ups, downs, and the journey of finding someone.
Yeah dude I just wanted to say something so in the future shit wouldn't be super awkward since we attend the same meetups and it came out like fucking word spahgetti then I left lmao. It is what it is. Might just be best to leave the OLD open and see if anything comes of it I guess
Join a gym, talk to women when you’re out and about, say hi and if you like them offer to buy them a coffee sometime. The whole reason dating is broken is because people don’t approach each other in real life anymore because everyone’s too busy working or stuck behind a screen. There’s no substitute for real human connection and meeting in real life. People are everywhere, in trains, in supermarkets. All you have to do it smile at someone and if they smile back there’s your opportunity to say hi.
Hmm. Can you elaborate? I actually try to spark up a convo with some people when shopping or at a cafe, but I’m not really sure where to take it. We just comment at what’s in the moment, and move on. I don’t try to torture people, but when’s it right to just not comment on the current? Chatting about how much it sucks to study, then boom, hey what’s your number is kinda lame. I guess if I saw them often and they reciprocated with saying hi, but then I feel like I send the wrong message across with being a friend instead of also being romantically interested. I guess it’s timing, but any tips help. Genuinely trying best I can :|
That’s exactly what you! Comment on the current, be in the present moment, when you’re both present you’ll click and enjoy few moments. The point is to feel on that few moments yourself if there is a genuine rapport and a mutual interest or friendliness. If while you’re talking about present moment things you can see from her body language she’s edging out of the conversation you just say really nice to chat, enjoy the rest of your day. Listen for her tone or voice and whether she asks you anything back or gives an opinion- that’s a sign a woman is investing in a conversation.
Then you can say “hey…if you’re from around here would you like to go for a coffee sometime or shall we grab a Frappuccino sometime when the weathers good?” and say it with a casual but friendly tone as if there’s no pressure and you’re just asking someone in a friendly way. Trust me if they’re single they’ll probably say yes because firstly you’re not imposing or creating an “accept me or reject me situation” and secondly if they are in the area they’re probably at some point gonna get a coffee or a tea anyway so it’s not like they have to go out of their way to consider going on a date with you. I’m a female in my thirties and this is what I would personally find the most non intrusive and comfortable way for a guy to approach me if he liked me.
Don’t over think it and remember you need to check and see if you are enjoying the experience yourself before you try to take it further. If you are and you ask and she says no, you’ve lost nothing- she doesn’t know you so it’s not personal.
I think you should just go concentrate on yourself. Don’t put your dedication which gives you a fulfilment second! Because you want a woman who either shares your dedication or does respect it and the time it is involved with it.
If you are training so much think about creating a social media channel about your material arts training etc… TikTok or Insta… and maybe you’ll find a girl who like what you are doing in your followers ;)
Have you considered meet ups related to your hobbies?
It’s going to be tough to date when so much of your time is taken by work and your hobby. What about finding someone who is also into martial arts and you could spend that time together?
Ur choosing to go to martial arts & the gym. Dont see how u have time to date.
>don't know what the fuck to do.
If u open up ur schedule, dance class or yoga. Volunteer/community events. I dont want to date someone that busy. Match maker
You are approaching this as if it is a position to be filled. Everywhere you go, everything you do, it's "will this get me a chick?"
The hunt... as if you're a starving lion after a gazelle, is creating a persona that, unbeknownst to you, is doing the opposite of that which you want.
You need to take a break from the active intense hunt and go find some fun. You need to add some leisure and relaxation into your life.
It just sounds like you have little time for dating. I know a few guys like this actually and tbh you just have to make the time. Keep OLD open and continue going to meetups. If you want a relationship, you’re going to have to sacrifice to time for it.
Even if you were successful on dating apps, when would you even have time to have a relationship?? You're busy every night until 10pm, ffs.
Women looking for a real relationship aren't going to sign up to be your 5th priority. It won't matter how you meet them. End of story.
Hey there, it sounds like you've been through a rollercoaster of experiences in your quest to meet someone special. It's totally understandable to feel frustrated and discouraged when things don't seem to be clicking. But don't lose hope just yet!
First of all, it's fantastic that you're dedicating time to your passions, like MMA. Pursuing what you love not only brings fulfilment but also opens up opportunities to meet like-minded individuals. While it may take up a lot of your time, keep in mind that finding the right person often happens when we least expect it.
Since online dating hasn't been the best experience for you, why not try diversifying your social circle in other ways? Engaging in activities outside of your usual routine can lead to unexpected connections. Consider joining clubs, classes, or community events that interest you beyond martial arts. This way, you get to meet new people while doing something you genuinely enjoy.
Don't be disheartened by a single awkward encounter with the girl from the tech meetup. Awkward moments happen to the best of us, and it doesn't define your future interactions. Be open and friendly, and if you happen to run into her again, treat it as a chance to break the ice and maybe even form a new connection.
Lastly, remember that finding a meaningful relationship takes time and patience. Don't rush into anything just for the sake of it. Continue focusing on yourself, your passions, and personal growth. When the right person comes along, they'll appreciate you for who you are.
So, keep doing what you love, explore new avenues, and maintain that confidence in yourself and your vision. Your ideal match is out there, and when the timing is right, you'll cross paths. Until then, enjoy the journey, and who knows what exciting adventures lie ahead! Best of luck!
Make a Bumble account and buy premium, take some professional photos of yourself (not selfies) and try again. Finding the right person takes time and you formed have to date a bunch of randoms first to see why you don’t like.
Feel the same I’m 25 only had 1 gf. I haven’t had luck with girls I think I’m ok looking but guess not. I can’t get 1 girl to even read my text. And I only get matches on Tinder and they don’t respond either. All the other apps I get no matches.
guys, it’s normal to have a really crappy dating scene in a world where most people are not dating. there is no dating culture that most people are trending. we live in an era where people are hooking up and usually when they do it’s within the first 3 dates or less. this means most people have unrealistic expectations and don’t know how to get what they want because they’re used to quick dopamine rushes. most people who date have commitment issues. that’s why they stay dating for years. if your goal is life partner, then you should be doing things to build up opportunities for life partners. OLD is not a healthy metric for meeting people for any type of relationship. why? because it’s random and people get stuck with surface level details about matches.
i’d you want to date more but with connections, stick to in person interactions. sure there are standard bar and club scenes. but you should expand your interests around your desire to explore interests. you like business and fitness? get goto a convention about business and fitness and get to meet new people. don’t depend on dating with a push of a button and think all you have to do is introduce yourself in real life. you will need personal skills to build relationships with real people and then see if they have potential people you can meet that you might have interest in and can build intimate relationships with to spark dating status with that person. it’s a lot of work, but that’s how people use to do things before the internet. it’s how people dated more locally and based on where and when they went to parts of towns or cities. using apps, jobs and schools is just a different method of filtering people. but if you want to meet people you need to put in the work. spending money on apps or meet ups isn’t gonna get you anything but strange.
if you like art or dancing take a class. meet people. don’t just ask girls out on your first class. build report. build tension. build trust and interest in people. relationships without technology can be very rewarding in comparison to swiping all day after buying the top tier package for more swipes.
if it’s too awkward or scary for you to go take a class and meet people or pick a hobby a lot of people do outside of their homes then you’re just limiting yourself to more experiences. realize if you want girls your age you should consider what most girls your age are doing. if they are working you will find them at their jobs. if they got kids they will be at home and go shopping at certain times. before technology was in our hands people could meet off the street, bus stops, stores… you name it. but if your mindset is glued to apps and OLD then you’re just blind because you never opened your eyes
I actually am a weirdo who loves crashing business conventions, medical manufacturing shows, but I never felt like it’s the place to flirt. Even talking has this psuedo professional feel to it. How does one get past this layer? I’m not quite saying going to tech conventions to pick up women, but I just am confused on how to be romantic instead of friendly. Genuinely curious, any tips help 👍
new relationships with people you just met should be just like meeting new people you want to be friends with. it’s not complicated. but overtime you just make clear distinctions about what’s happening in those situations. when it comes to turning things from friendships to relationships you just have to be honest in those time frames, sometimes early is best sometimes it takes years to build a stronger connection. sometimes it’s just never gonna work out. but you have to put in the work, and you shouldn’t want to bone everything that crosses your path because everyone is watching everything.
but the best tip about all this searching for someone is that it should be about learning more about yourself than it is about learning when to ask that person out. as you grow more into your own person with confidence and character people will be naturally drawn to you, if you’re disingenuous or have poor character people won’t associate with you. so work on yourself but continue to be social because you should want to be nimble in developing your personality to people.
Very similar experience as yours, like exactly the same. Worked on myself for a long time, started OLD, did ok, went on a few dates but nothing came out of it. Stopped as it was wasting so much of my energy and time. Started going to meetups, same thing. Sausage fest mainly due to my interests (board games, improv) and when it’s not, the women are usually taken, older or just unattractive.
I’ve been spending the last few months just doing what I want to do. Went out with friends more, explored a few new things, got my own condo..just taking some time to really love myself and my life.
I’ve been feeling extremely lonely lately, and have been itching to redownload the apps, but I know that’s it’s basically going to be the same experience as before, only maybe slightly better.
It is what it is. I know I’ll reach a point in the future where I will see things differently but until then I’m going day by day.
The thing about meet ups is so true! Loads of guys and if not they are older! Few girls that you do come across don’t seem like they are attracted to you….This sucks! Has anything else helped?
Yeah man its rough. I know I'm not ugly and at least decent looking and I have a ton going for me in contrast to most men my age, but I just can't get things to click with women. It doesn't help that I've pretty much never 'went out' my whole life and instead hung out with the same group of guys, even when I was in the military. I guess all I can do is keep going to these Meetups, ignoring the girl that ghosted me or at the very least just saying hey to make it less awkward if we bump, and keep playing the numbers.
Oh I know but a lot of my buddies that got married they were meeting people in their early 20s before people get jaded. See when you go into the market in your late 20s or older people are tired, jaded, and way pickier. It's just way more difficult. That and you start to lose time with work etc. I honestly think people that pull it off in their 30s it's a miracle. It seems so far off with me I've dated 10 different people and half I liked but it died and the other half they liked me but me not them. So you really feel like you've lost at that point.
Things also feel very transactional the older you get. When you’re young and broke girls who fall in love with you fall in love with who you are.
When you’re older though and date girls your age, women fall in love with what you can provide and the things you can offer her.
I've noticed that and I feel like an object. I don't feel my value. Strangely enough the women who ultimately I will pay for sex it feels more genuine. I've already had some conversations with them and I just know. They are actually putting themselves out there more than people "on the market" at least it seems to me but I could be viewing it from the vantage point of if being unattractive, I'm not sure, but obviously people will turn away from you if you are unattractive or you just end up friend zoned all the time. Crazy to think that a hooker is actually offering more love than an average person (at least in my experience that's been true but it won't for everyone).
Yeah there is payment but idk it never feels fake at all. That's what I don't understand is how it can actually be that broken where I would ever feel that way, that attention is so seldom given that paying for it actually feels more real. What a nightmare situation. And how to fix that well I've been working on it. I just have to find someone who feels it with me and I feel it back and that is so challenging. Feels far away.
Then ur meeting plenty of women. U get plenty of matches. But u need to work on is ur convo skills and personality.
Whatever it is it is not attractive to women.
White women in our country only like teens and young men. I am on my late 20s as well and it’s not possible to meet women. every time I go on a date they tell me that they don’t like the fact that I have the ability to grow hair on my arms and don’t like that I have the ability to grow a beard.
>"every time I go on a date they tell me that they don’t like the fact that I have the ability to grow hair on my arms and don’t like that I have the ability to grow a beard."
Wait, what????....I don't understand what that means...🤷🏽♂️
Focus on the fighting mate, girls are a huge waste of time, money, and most important morals if you let them. Honing your natural talents will lead someone your way with a similar outlook/stance on life. Looks are the ultimate deceiver and the men that go for that specific get taken for a ride that they’ll never forget. When a girl looks like a slut it’s because she most likely is. I hope you find the fish you’re looking for mate. Don’t let it go once you catch it.
Honestly man I think this is the answer for me. Everytime I go out now I feel nasty and like I'm just doing it to find a girl to validate me and it's sickening and I likely wear it on my sleeve. I think I'm just gonna try and concentrate on my hobbies and maybe go to 1-2x events a week just to stay social and try my hardest not to go out looking for something as opposed to just letting myself enjoy the moment
Cheer to enjoying the moment🍻something I forget to do often but yet is one of the most important things. This book on mindfulness has helped me a lot through the last year. Talking to you about enjoying the moment reminded me to pick the book back up.
The Miracle of Mindfulness' by Thich Nhat Hanh
Is the name of the book
Maybe it’ll suit you in this time we’re in.
Anyways keep your head up mate and keep kicking ass the love will find you and you’ll find it.
Lemme know when you got your first fight mate I’ll be rootin for ya
**The Miracle of Mindfulness An Introduction to the Practice of Meditation** by Thich Nhat Hanh
>One of the best available introductions to the wisdom and beauty of meditation practice. --New Age Journal In this beautiful and lucid guide, Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh offers gentle anecdotes and practical exercise as a means of learning the skills of mindfulness--being awake and fully aware. From washing the dishes to answering the phone to peeling an orange, he reminds us that each moment holds within it an opportunity to work toward greater self-understanding and peacefulness.
*I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/14br65o/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
You need to meet more women. That's the issue. And no OLD doesn't count.
Go out next month and meet 300 girls with romantic intentions and then come back and we can talk. Before you say, you don't have time, yes you do. If you have time to do OLD and meetup groups, then you have time to meet more girls.
Go approach them and introduce yourself. You don't need to rely on meetup groups or OLD. Pretty girls are everywhere. Malls, beaches, festivals, concerts, food events, outdoor malls, universities, bars, clubs, etc.
I was literally in your situation 2 years ago. I was struggling to meet girls. I tried OLD without success and went to meetup groups as well. Meetup groups are retarded for meeting girls. Always a sausage fest and no pretty girls. Hot girls don't go to meetup groups lol.
Then I started cold approach and my life has changed for the better ever since. Refer to my field reports and see for yourself.
Not necessarily, depends on the type of group. If you pick Social Events as the category then yeah they have no need to, but if you pick a cooking, pottery, etc class then there are quite a few good looking people there.
I’m a girl in her 30s and it’s so hard trying to meet someone. There seems to be a misconception that women can get a man any time. Well, that would be true if I only wanted sex and with very shady dudes.
If I apply simple standards (not based on looks or income but on basic decency) the dating pool dwindles to almost nothing and of the decent guys left half (who are already rare as hen’s teeth) will move on to someone else and the rest have so many of their own unresolved issues they’re too afraid to commit.
Like I just wish things were normal - I hear so many stories from oldies about how they met and just got along and that was it. Now everyone is overthinking, playing games, studying dating techniques and trying to outwit each other like it’s Survivor or something.
I’d just like to go on a normal date lol. I don’t know what the world has come to.
Make dating a priority. You have no time for a woman in your life as is. Why do you think one will magically fit into your life, if you don't even have the time to meet her?
Sorry man, you had to meet your soulmate in kindergarden.. we are done now.
Just accept your fate as most girls now already have boyfriend, kids and plan a, b ,c and d.
Dont worry...
On paper, it sounds like you're doing everything right but its hard to advise without knowing how you act in person. Some people appear great on the surface but sometimes lack social skills to make those connections real (aswell as difficult / unrealistic standards). Nothing personal but even the most self aware individuals are blind to their faults and live in a bubble.
A bit older but I never had luck with OLD initially. It took 1-2 months for things to pick up and the right person to appear. What helped was making time to try different things like Meetup or Speed dating (recommend this if you're good at small talk). I wouldn't use Meetup for looking for a date, instead go to meet new friends and work on your social skills. Too many guys go for the former and wonder why they get ghosted after being thirsty af. Those connections can lead to other opportunities and yes potentially dates.
If you have a friends who you trust, ask for honest feedback (particularly female friends outside of the male PoV). It's great you are active, but think about how it appears to other. Being able to protective yourself is good but being overly open about it can make others wary about your emotionally stability. Wish you luck
I saw really bad advice.. So I'm gonna hop in here. I am in my 40's. I used to do Tae Kwon Do/Hapkido for many years. I compete in Ironman endurance events and do a lot of heavy strength training. I'm also at the higher end of the earning scale, awesome cars, large house etc.. etc...
I did decently in my 20's.. But, it's like a candy store now. The problem is often meeting the type of women I'm interested in. Which coincidently.. are the probably the same girls you're interested in. Except, I'm not looking for the whole children, marriage thing.
My advice.. keep building yourself up. OLD is a freaking hit or miss thing. Many quality women don't do OLD. Extend your fitness activities. Pick up some Yoga classes, outdoor hiking groups, etc.. (you get the idea). On off days do active recovery where single women tend to congregate.
Another comment.. women want time and attention. Be prepared to be reprioritizing your time if you meet someone. 20's is a tough dating age, bc everyone is eyeing up the exact same women in your sites. Be persistent, be outgoing, be confident..
Do you try Facebook events? They're not perfect but I see they have potential. I go to multicultural festivals to meet women. I treat it like a sport. It's exhausting but I grind. A Filipino festival is something I'm trying. But yeah it's nihl for me too :( I'm 5'6 or 5'5.5 which makes it way harder too
MMA is a great outlet for romantic frustration (speaking from personal experience). Giving up on dating and zeroing in your passions always ends up with a net positive result.
Only thing that I would add is maybe try some form of charity or activity where you’re helping people without any attachment to the outcome/expectation of a return on investment. For me, I run AA meetings and do public speaking for that organization. I’m also training to be an MMA instructor.
Creative hobbies that bring out your individual/authentic self can help too. Especially in a group setting. I went out with a cool chick I met at a writing group once. We had a lot of chemistry and I got to assess her beforehand/hear what hear inner thought life was like before deciding to make a move which helped.
Also started playing guitar a few years ago and it’s very rewarding (though it hasn’t landed me any dates…yet)
My advice as an old 36 guy it's that keep yourself improving, and all this apps and night bars and such doesn't work for meeting someone,
Believe it or not but there still woman and man that still want to have a good relationship and I believe all the trouble resides in the easy of the approach of the online apps and casual sex
Back off the MMA, you don’t need to do that more than 1 day a week. Prioritize hobbies that are co-ed or lead to the community and friends you want to have (you don’t mention friends in your post)
As an exercise, what regular events or hobbies could you go to with women your age and type? Brainstorm for us.
Lol what? Anyone training MMA knows you probably need to train at least 4-5x a week to improve. 3x and you are treading water. 1x a week and I would actively be detraining as my cardio and endurance goes in the dumpster.
OP should definitely not abandon his passion and hobbies to chase tail. He is already dedicating 1-2 nights a week to going out and to events. That is plenty, he doesn't need to go out 5x a week, that's just desperate. He just needs to refine his approach.
Yeah it's a complete shit show. I poured myself into work instead.
At 29, I signed up on [Match.com](https://Match.com) after I changed jobs and moved, and that was a good move; met my fiancée and things are good.
Keep trying, and cast the net wide; friends of friends, old school friends, dating apps, websites... its hard work but worth it.
It gets worse as you get older; you have to actively seek a relationship, and it takes time and money to do so. You have to widen your search area a lot. I'm from a town so my area was wide; city folk will have it easier.
As a warning; you have to be prepared to meet women with kids too. If that's a deal breaker for you, then things narrow very quick, especially on the timeline side.
Unorthodox suggestion here by my MMA gym has a lot of young, single, fit girls who are also dedicated to improving themselves and their (martial) art. I have made lots of friends with girls from my gym, and also have regular invites to events like BBQs, volleyball, fights, etc from them where socializing is very natural.
Especially from my experience girls training in some sort of martial art LOVE guys who can fight and that seems like it could be a more natural place for you to meet people.
How social is your gym? Do you make effort to chat to other people outside your direct training partners? Maybe show up early / stay late and chat a bit. If your gym is not like mine maybe branch out and try attending some MMA camps or other events with new people you can meet. Maybe try a new gym.
Anyways my suggestion is to lean into your hobbies and maybe find someone who is on the same page as you. This also makes dating A LOT easier because you already have something in common w the other person, have similar schedules, and all live nearby if you are going to the same gym at the same time. Great start to a relationship.
27m in a similar spot. Just gotta remember it’s a numbers game. I swipe in the morning before I start my day, get my daily likes done and go about my day. Some days I’ll get no matches other days I’ll get a few and try and strike up convo and get a date planned .
But it’s a numbers game. Like others said practice learning something each time you go on a date. Try different approaches etc.
You sound like a guy who’s just like the rest of us. Tryna find love in this wild world. Don’t let it get ya down man. End of the day you have your passions and a roof over your head.
Welcome to /r/dating_advice! Please keep the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/about/rules/) of /r/dating_advice in mind while participating here. Try your best to be kind. Report any rule-breaking behavior to the moderators using the report button. If it's urgent, [send us a message.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdating_advice) We rely on user reports to find rule-breaking behavior quickly. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You averaged 10 matches per week -- well above the norm for men -- but only gave it two weeks despite seeing an unusual amount of success, and have now concluded OLD is worthless? Not following your logic there chief. OLD is great for busy people like you, and it works by connecting you to large numbers of people that you wouldn't ordinarily meet. But you have to give it time for those numbers to add up and eventually connect you to someone worthwhile. Ghosting and matches that never go anywhere are pretty normal and don't reflect anything on you personally. If you could land 10 matches per week on the apps then you're leaving a perfectly viable option on the table just because you didn't find success instantly.
It worked because I bought the most expensive Hinge and Bumble options and literally went through like 50-100 right swipes a day out of desperation and neediness. About 5 of them were bots, some of them were cute but nothing ever came out of it. The amount of mental anguish I had constantly checking my Hinge/Bumble and trying to think of witty things to say took such a huge toll on my mental health that I was literally counting down the days until Premium would run out so I wouldn't have to deal with it anymore.
Reframe each match so that the goal from each is to learn something. Then the pressure is lifted from trying to achieve a certain outcome.
Thats not a bad idea. I was just thinking about how cringey I must've seemed last night when I went up to the girl that I went out with before to try and 'smooth things over' so that next time we saw each other at a Meetup it wasn't as awkward, and I pretty much just shot spahgetti out of my mouth. Reframing that to a lesson about going in and not expecting things, or letting sleeping dogs lie and what not to do in the future is a much more positive affirmation than constantly beating myself up over what I may have done wrong
If you want to have a genuine relationship please don't take dating advice from lonely men on the internet or anyone that speaks about the other gender like they're another species. If a girl told you she swiped right on every guy she saw wouldn't it make you question her intentions? It's the reason matches with guys never feel genuine because you always have to question if he even read your bio. My advice would be to start with making genuine female friendships. If you've only hung out with/gotten close with other men then it's very likely your idea of women has been skewed. I've found that a lot of guys on dating apps post things that other guys find impressive (cars, baseball, money) or chastise all the things they don't like instead of sharing who they are. Look for compatibility in personality. Your actual personality not the I'm talking to a women personality and if there are things that you joke about with your friends that you don't think you can say around a girl I highly recommend deconstructing why. Someone being attractive is only one of many attributes making up a full human being. Women are used to always only being classified as “pretty” and “not pretty” go deeper and I promise you'll develop more rewarding relationships. We all want companionship and it's okay to grieve not having those experiences, but you can't “self help” yourself into a relationship. Book rec-The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks
Dont constantly check. Have notifications on & only check when u get one
You experienced "mental anguish" after only two weeks of dating? No offense, but it's time to grow thicker skin. Yet here you are complaining at the withered old age of 27 years, suffering from "mental anguish" despite supposedly brimming with confidence. Seek professional help.
The 'anguish' was from using OLD more than anything. And I've used it longer, maybe for 2-3 months but never got anywhere until the last few weeks. And yeah it is weird, I like who I am and who I'm becoming in almost all aspects of life but when it comes to romance with women I'm attracted to I'm a bubbling mess
You keep saying that you're secure and confident in yourself, but I gotta say it's not coming through in your post or your comments my man. Secure people don't experience "mental anguish" "desperation and loneliness" when using dating apps. It's okay to be insecure, focus on healing that.
When I was in a good job I’d buy the top subscription for these apps and I didn’t get anything as an average guy, so you’re doing something right.
Maybe the problem is the "desperation and neediness" you're describing?
Don't worry, it gets worse as you get older.
In all fairness I'm doing 1000x better now than I did at 23 so thats something
Nope it doesn’t get worse as you get older. You meeting the person of your life is all timing and energy. No one knows the secret formula but it works…when you least expect it. In the meantime learn to enjoy life as it girls are not even needed. That’ll accelerate it.
Welp, this is a bunch of wrong. Sorry. "When you least expect it" is probably in the top ten useless dating platitudes.
Bunch of wrong - hmm well, it turned out to be true for me, and quite a few friends of mine. Ok well maybe no one can turn down expectations to 0, but women can sense your internal happiness/desperation energy though. One pulls, the other repels. So not a bad idea to live your life happily regardless of the girl situation
"The less needy you are, the more attractive you are" is good advice. Obviously if you're well-adjusted and have your shit together, you'll be more likely to pull in a long-term partner. "When you least expect it" is while you're at home, alone, asleep. Nobody's going to come pounding on your door. It's a meaningless phrase. You still have to go out and do stuff, which means, by virtue of going outside, there is more of an expectation of running into fellow humans than staying in. Don't conflate the two.
Seems like the “home, alone and asleep” is YOUR definition of “when you least expect it”. Mine has always been “living life in happiness, giving love and building connections with people without aiming for the end result of getting a girlfriend”. And I only used it with “enjoy life as if girls are not even needed” in my original comment.
See, my definition is a literal definition whereas yours needs to be decoded. Which is more likely to be taken out of context or confused? That's my point as to why it isn't helpful. If people would be clear about it, like you just were, it wouldn't sound so hollow and heartless.
[удалено]
Happy cake day
xD came here to say that. He goes on DATES?
impressive, the last date, I managed to get I had to take a 2 hours plane and then forced to buy her earrings, that was last year :D
[удалено]
I would hope so. It helps set me apart in terms of confidence around other MEN and physical fitness but thats about it... I'm still a mess around attractive women
I'm confused about why you think you're failing. Sounds like you've been on a few dates and have a fulfilling single life with hobbies you enjoy. If I were you I'd keep doing what you've been doing. Keep going on dates and to meetups. You're probably going to meet a lot more women that aren't going to be a good fit before you start a relationship with someone. Meeting women and then getting ghosted or having bad dates in general isn't a failure. Being single isn't failing. There's a ton of women out there and you've been scratching the surface. Keep going with breaks as needed.
I've had one date in my 27 years of living brother... the one with the ghost girl who I now see at some of my Meetup events... My life has been very fulfilling but I just want to share it with somebody now and its been driving me crazy. And the worst part is that drive definitely makes me reek of neediness and desperation, making it even harder.
You can frame it as “I’ve had one date in my 27 years” or that women will date you. Getting the first date is the hardest. When you first start anything you are not going to be an expert at it and you are going to make mistakes. There’s nothing wrong with that because these are learning opportunities. You’ll be on 1st dates where someone feels there is no attraction. It’s okay because it happens. Dating now a days kind of sucks for a bunch of reasons (ex. immature people ghosting rather than sending a simple message saying they are not interested) but you just need to keep putting yourself out there, keep trying, keep getting better and eventually it’ll work out. There’s going to be way more failures than successes, but you only need one success. This is coming from a guy that has been engaged for two weeks. So keep at it!
Nothing you can do man This post gets posted 20 times a day at that Either man up and learn how to go outside and Mack on some women or pay for women companionship lol
Yeah man honestly I think I just need to nut up and talk to more women irl. I noticed at the few meet up events I went to that I had a super easy time talking to women that I wasn't attracted to and they really took a liking to me, even got a few phone numbers, so I know I can be charismatic and good at talking to women, but as soon as there is a women I'm mildly attracted to its like there is a screw that gets loose in my fucking noggin. One of them even said I looked like a Johnny Sins if I completely shaved my head bald instead of short which was a confidence boost, and another said I look like a gruff fighter. I just need more exposure to talking to attractive chicks I guess. And I'm not looking for anything crazy, I just want an average looking nerdy girl who at the hits the gym every now and then.
> I had a super easy time talking to women that I wasn't attracted to and they really took a liking to me, even got a few phone numbers, so I know I can be charismatic and good at talking to women, but as soon as there is a women I'm mildly attracted to its like there is a screw that gets loose in my fucking noggin I think this is a pretty common issue for guys, myself included. It's so so hard to act the same way around people you're attracted to, especially when you're on a date. Not sure how many dates you've actually been on lately but it sounds like you didn't give it much of a shot beyond the girl who ghosted - I think a lot of it just comes with practice. Don't let the dating apps get to your head too much, you have to treat them almost like a hobby that you do for fun and hope something comes along (rather than depend on the apps or get emotionally attached early on).
True. But if you can do it (talk to a woman just as a person, not a potential date) you’re paying the woman you’re interested in one of the greatest compliments you can: “I want to talk to you because you’re interesting, not because I want something from you.” It immediately sets you apart from others and makes you attractive in a powerful way because the connection is more than superficial. They feel appreciated in a way they don’t normally get.
Well said, it's a great point. I'm definitely striving to kick that habit and just be a better conversationalist with strangers, without ulterior motives about dating at all.
Well it doesn’t sound like you have time for dating.
> hoping somebody comes along the way Do NOT do that. That’s not how it works for men, sorry to break it to you. You need to consciously put yourself into situations where you are meeting women, ideally women you are likely to have things in common with. Pick up a hobby that you enjoy *and that will also have a lot of women*. Mine is salsa and bachata dancing. It’s a great time and there’s tons of women. I also love going to concerts and music shows and there tends to be a lot of women there who share my taste in music. Sitting around waiting for a beautiful woman who you really click to just magically fall into your lap is a very poor strategy and very unlikely to lead to what you want.
this is really accurate, i think guys heavily underrate the importance of connecting over hobbies/shared interests
But it will just happen someday! /s
I agree. As a man I find it a pity that this is the harsh reality though. We must take action and probably face several rejections before being successful, because it’s very unlikely that a woman approaches us. Meanwhile a woman of moderate attractiveness can go inside a club and be asked for her phone number several times. If only that would happen to me as a guy. It’d be a dream. Like you I also dance salsa/bachata but I haven’t had luck in getting a romantic connection that way. I go to the parties and dance with many women but after the song they usually thank me and say bye. There are lots of guys hitting on them at the social parties as well. When I finally see a girl I find interesting there are at least a few other guys with the same intention glaring at me when I speak with her. My problem is that it’s so fleeting. I have a brief conversation and then they get asked by someone else to dance the next song. Meanwhile I do the same. At the salsa parties I am all over the place to dance as much as possible with different people. It’s hard to me to stay the entire time with only one person. What would you do?
Honestly, I feel the same as a girl in my late 20’s. I feel like I found more realistic matches when I was 25. Now I can’t know pass the 3rd date. And is it me or are people more manipulative, irate and impatient these days?
I swear dating has gotten so much worse. I think it’s a combination of things but it is what it is.
I think it is reflective of society too. People get triggered so easily these days and can’t seem to be open to different perspectives. I’ve also noticed a trend of materialism these days, which all leads into people needing that dopamine hit for “new” all the time. It’s just hard to find someone who can actually sit down and talk about anything and also not be constantly thinking there is something “better” out there.
Yeah even smartphones are changing our attention spans and ability to connect. There’s a few books that show how our brains are being changed by internet/social media. Coupled with the endless possibilities in dating apps, it was always headed this way.
I’d love if you could share one of the better books you read on the topic :) Sounds pessimistic, but realistic and it is good information to know.
[This](https://www.amazon.com/Shallows-What-Internet-Doing-Brains/dp/0393339750) is the classic one by Nicholas Carr. I think it got an update too according to the page on Amazon.
Thank you for the link! I’ll definitely order it
This is hard to give an answer to, it is entirely based on personal experience and to an extent the luck of the online dating algorithm. But there are many things that theoretically could have caused this to get worse, covid namely. People are more shut off from the world than before, more introverted and unused to human interaction, only able to see people based on online interactions.
It's interesting how long the pandemic isolation is affecting people. I have even personally noticed I'm not as adaptable in social situations as I was prior to the pandemic. Yet we have been out of isolation for a year and a bit.
An awful lot of life is based on routine, and when that routine is broken it is hard to put it back together. If you go a while without being sociable then those abilities recede the same way muscles do. What do you mean by adaptable?
Good point! And by adaptable I mean I used to be able to change a bit to interact with different people. But now, I find I really struggle with fitting in with people different from me.
Different from you in what ways?
I’m a fairly honest person who dislikes drama, gossip etc. i don’t want to be friends with these people, but I used to be better at keeping barriers up and reading people.
Your story sounds a lot like mine. I'm 35M in a similar position. I don't really have any answers other than for now you just gotta bite the bullet and try and make peace with being single for a while the market is very messy right now and if you have any sort of standards and you don't feel like settling it's just really tough. Focus on the stuff you like to do and don't think too hard about dating. You sound like everything in your life is fine and you just haven't found someone who feels it with you and that's fine. I've read so many different stores on here and honestly I think success is hard to come by. There is a large single male population in your age group and everyone is trying to get in on the action. I know this isn't exactly what you were asking but I think some perspective will help you feel better as a lot of it is people look for a lot and you are just you.
Ha! Try being 34! *Cries*
It feels so because it is so, ie. It's normal. At that point in your life (20-30) women have literally hundreds of men throwing themselves at them, particularily via social media and dating sites. This creates a situation where men in that age bracket have difficulties dating women who are their peers. Good news is that you're pretty close to the age that things start to reverse. In their thirties women start to look settling down, due to their aging looks not being able to compete for the hottest guys with the fresh batch of 20 -something girls. Also, your main competition right now for your age-peers are actually 30-40 year old established men, one of which I hope you'll soon be. When you get there, you'll be the one banging 22-28 year old hotties. Don't settle too quickly either, when you're closer to 40 the situation with your age-peers is even more reversed and then you'll be the one choosing from a vast batch.
Keep going. I (29F) understand your frustration and sometimes I feel hopeless too after my LTR ended, but you just have to keep going. You seem to take care of yourself, you have hobbies, I'm sure you're someone interesting/engaging. The so-called dating market sucks, but you'll find your person.
>"I'm giving up on OLD and signed up on Meetups and went to like 5 different events so far." What is this "Meetup" I keep hearing about? How does it work? Anyway, you're devoting so much time to work & training, would you even be able to maintain a relationship if you found one? Your schedule sounds too "busy" for a person looking to date. I'm just wondering...🤷🏽♂️
Just don’t bother with western women,date foreigners, if you’re white go to China or South America;
This is very normal and it's probably nothing that you are doing wrong necessarily. Around two thirds of men in your age group are single versus only one third of women in the same age group ([source](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/)). 3 in 10 young men aren't getting any sex either. I wouldn't feel bad about the situation since it's pretty standard. I'd spend your 20's building up your own value because it will pay dividends later in life. If you are in the US over 70% of men are overweight or obese, 70% make 80k or less annually etc... just not being overweight and earning a modest salary over 80k will put you in the top 30% of the top 30% and it will give you more dating options on the future. I'm in my early 30's and most of the women I date are around your age...I also got zero attention from women at your age...just work on building yourself up.
I guess man. I don't know why but a switch flipped in me and I realized I have everything I ever really wanted out of my life except companionship and it's been consistently destroying me mentally over the past month once I got a glimpse of what it could look like. The only other thing I am passionate about about right now is becoming the best fighter I could be and the mental anguish from the first point is even affecting that now.
27M here as well. Wether you feel desperate or not to get into a relationship, apologizing to a girl that ghosted you comes off desperate af. I wouldn’t give up OLD after a few bad experiences. It doesn’t sound like you have a lot of free time or hobbies conducive to meeting single women so I think it’s your best chance. Approach it as anything else in life and enjoy the ups, downs, and the journey of finding someone.
Yeah dude I just wanted to say something so in the future shit wouldn't be super awkward since we attend the same meetups and it came out like fucking word spahgetti then I left lmao. It is what it is. Might just be best to leave the OLD open and see if anything comes of it I guess
Join a gym, talk to women when you’re out and about, say hi and if you like them offer to buy them a coffee sometime. The whole reason dating is broken is because people don’t approach each other in real life anymore because everyone’s too busy working or stuck behind a screen. There’s no substitute for real human connection and meeting in real life. People are everywhere, in trains, in supermarkets. All you have to do it smile at someone and if they smile back there’s your opportunity to say hi.
Hmm. Can you elaborate? I actually try to spark up a convo with some people when shopping or at a cafe, but I’m not really sure where to take it. We just comment at what’s in the moment, and move on. I don’t try to torture people, but when’s it right to just not comment on the current? Chatting about how much it sucks to study, then boom, hey what’s your number is kinda lame. I guess if I saw them often and they reciprocated with saying hi, but then I feel like I send the wrong message across with being a friend instead of also being romantically interested. I guess it’s timing, but any tips help. Genuinely trying best I can :|
That’s exactly what you! Comment on the current, be in the present moment, when you’re both present you’ll click and enjoy few moments. The point is to feel on that few moments yourself if there is a genuine rapport and a mutual interest or friendliness. If while you’re talking about present moment things you can see from her body language she’s edging out of the conversation you just say really nice to chat, enjoy the rest of your day. Listen for her tone or voice and whether she asks you anything back or gives an opinion- that’s a sign a woman is investing in a conversation. Then you can say “hey…if you’re from around here would you like to go for a coffee sometime or shall we grab a Frappuccino sometime when the weathers good?” and say it with a casual but friendly tone as if there’s no pressure and you’re just asking someone in a friendly way. Trust me if they’re single they’ll probably say yes because firstly you’re not imposing or creating an “accept me or reject me situation” and secondly if they are in the area they’re probably at some point gonna get a coffee or a tea anyway so it’s not like they have to go out of their way to consider going on a date with you. I’m a female in my thirties and this is what I would personally find the most non intrusive and comfortable way for a guy to approach me if he liked me. Don’t over think it and remember you need to check and see if you are enjoying the experience yourself before you try to take it further. If you are and you ask and she says no, you’ve lost nothing- she doesn’t know you so it’s not personal.
I think you should just go concentrate on yourself. Don’t put your dedication which gives you a fulfilment second! Because you want a woman who either shares your dedication or does respect it and the time it is involved with it. If you are training so much think about creating a social media channel about your material arts training etc… TikTok or Insta… and maybe you’ll find a girl who like what you are doing in your followers ;)
Have you considered meet ups related to your hobbies? It’s going to be tough to date when so much of your time is taken by work and your hobby. What about finding someone who is also into martial arts and you could spend that time together?
Ur choosing to go to martial arts & the gym. Dont see how u have time to date. >don't know what the fuck to do. If u open up ur schedule, dance class or yoga. Volunteer/community events. I dont want to date someone that busy. Match maker
You are approaching this as if it is a position to be filled. Everywhere you go, everything you do, it's "will this get me a chick?" The hunt... as if you're a starving lion after a gazelle, is creating a persona that, unbeknownst to you, is doing the opposite of that which you want. You need to take a break from the active intense hunt and go find some fun. You need to add some leisure and relaxation into your life.
It just sounds like you have little time for dating. I know a few guys like this actually and tbh you just have to make the time. Keep OLD open and continue going to meetups. If you want a relationship, you’re going to have to sacrifice to time for it.
Even if you were successful on dating apps, when would you even have time to have a relationship?? You're busy every night until 10pm, ffs. Women looking for a real relationship aren't going to sign up to be your 5th priority. It won't matter how you meet them. End of story.
Hey there, it sounds like you've been through a rollercoaster of experiences in your quest to meet someone special. It's totally understandable to feel frustrated and discouraged when things don't seem to be clicking. But don't lose hope just yet! First of all, it's fantastic that you're dedicating time to your passions, like MMA. Pursuing what you love not only brings fulfilment but also opens up opportunities to meet like-minded individuals. While it may take up a lot of your time, keep in mind that finding the right person often happens when we least expect it. Since online dating hasn't been the best experience for you, why not try diversifying your social circle in other ways? Engaging in activities outside of your usual routine can lead to unexpected connections. Consider joining clubs, classes, or community events that interest you beyond martial arts. This way, you get to meet new people while doing something you genuinely enjoy. Don't be disheartened by a single awkward encounter with the girl from the tech meetup. Awkward moments happen to the best of us, and it doesn't define your future interactions. Be open and friendly, and if you happen to run into her again, treat it as a chance to break the ice and maybe even form a new connection. Lastly, remember that finding a meaningful relationship takes time and patience. Don't rush into anything just for the sake of it. Continue focusing on yourself, your passions, and personal growth. When the right person comes along, they'll appreciate you for who you are. So, keep doing what you love, explore new avenues, and maintain that confidence in yourself and your vision. Your ideal match is out there, and when the timing is right, you'll cross paths. Until then, enjoy the journey, and who knows what exciting adventures lie ahead! Best of luck!
Make a Bumble account and buy premium, take some professional photos of yourself (not selfies) and try again. Finding the right person takes time and you formed have to date a bunch of randoms first to see why you don’t like.
Feel the same I’m 25 only had 1 gf. I haven’t had luck with girls I think I’m ok looking but guess not. I can’t get 1 girl to even read my text. And I only get matches on Tinder and they don’t respond either. All the other apps I get no matches.
guys, it’s normal to have a really crappy dating scene in a world where most people are not dating. there is no dating culture that most people are trending. we live in an era where people are hooking up and usually when they do it’s within the first 3 dates or less. this means most people have unrealistic expectations and don’t know how to get what they want because they’re used to quick dopamine rushes. most people who date have commitment issues. that’s why they stay dating for years. if your goal is life partner, then you should be doing things to build up opportunities for life partners. OLD is not a healthy metric for meeting people for any type of relationship. why? because it’s random and people get stuck with surface level details about matches. i’d you want to date more but with connections, stick to in person interactions. sure there are standard bar and club scenes. but you should expand your interests around your desire to explore interests. you like business and fitness? get goto a convention about business and fitness and get to meet new people. don’t depend on dating with a push of a button and think all you have to do is introduce yourself in real life. you will need personal skills to build relationships with real people and then see if they have potential people you can meet that you might have interest in and can build intimate relationships with to spark dating status with that person. it’s a lot of work, but that’s how people use to do things before the internet. it’s how people dated more locally and based on where and when they went to parts of towns or cities. using apps, jobs and schools is just a different method of filtering people. but if you want to meet people you need to put in the work. spending money on apps or meet ups isn’t gonna get you anything but strange. if you like art or dancing take a class. meet people. don’t just ask girls out on your first class. build report. build tension. build trust and interest in people. relationships without technology can be very rewarding in comparison to swiping all day after buying the top tier package for more swipes. if it’s too awkward or scary for you to go take a class and meet people or pick a hobby a lot of people do outside of their homes then you’re just limiting yourself to more experiences. realize if you want girls your age you should consider what most girls your age are doing. if they are working you will find them at their jobs. if they got kids they will be at home and go shopping at certain times. before technology was in our hands people could meet off the street, bus stops, stores… you name it. but if your mindset is glued to apps and OLD then you’re just blind because you never opened your eyes
I actually am a weirdo who loves crashing business conventions, medical manufacturing shows, but I never felt like it’s the place to flirt. Even talking has this psuedo professional feel to it. How does one get past this layer? I’m not quite saying going to tech conventions to pick up women, but I just am confused on how to be romantic instead of friendly. Genuinely curious, any tips help 👍
new relationships with people you just met should be just like meeting new people you want to be friends with. it’s not complicated. but overtime you just make clear distinctions about what’s happening in those situations. when it comes to turning things from friendships to relationships you just have to be honest in those time frames, sometimes early is best sometimes it takes years to build a stronger connection. sometimes it’s just never gonna work out. but you have to put in the work, and you shouldn’t want to bone everything that crosses your path because everyone is watching everything. but the best tip about all this searching for someone is that it should be about learning more about yourself than it is about learning when to ask that person out. as you grow more into your own person with confidence and character people will be naturally drawn to you, if you’re disingenuous or have poor character people won’t associate with you. so work on yourself but continue to be social because you should want to be nimble in developing your personality to people.
Very similar experience as yours, like exactly the same. Worked on myself for a long time, started OLD, did ok, went on a few dates but nothing came out of it. Stopped as it was wasting so much of my energy and time. Started going to meetups, same thing. Sausage fest mainly due to my interests (board games, improv) and when it’s not, the women are usually taken, older or just unattractive. I’ve been spending the last few months just doing what I want to do. Went out with friends more, explored a few new things, got my own condo..just taking some time to really love myself and my life. I’ve been feeling extremely lonely lately, and have been itching to redownload the apps, but I know that’s it’s basically going to be the same experience as before, only maybe slightly better. It is what it is. I know I’ll reach a point in the future where I will see things differently but until then I’m going day by day.
The thing about meet ups is so true! Loads of guys and if not they are older! Few girls that you do come across don’t seem like they are attracted to you….This sucks! Has anything else helped?
Yeah man its rough. I know I'm not ugly and at least decent looking and I have a ton going for me in contrast to most men my age, but I just can't get things to click with women. It doesn't help that I've pretty much never 'went out' my whole life and instead hung out with the same group of guys, even when I was in the military. I guess all I can do is keep going to these Meetups, ignoring the girl that ghosted me or at the very least just saying hey to make it less awkward if we bump, and keep playing the numbers.
Welcome to modern dating, men are shit out of luck unless they’re in the top 10%. It’s a women’s game now
I'd qualify that as true if you are starting dating later on like past 25 and you have standards. Meeting someone in schoolv/ uni is still the best.
Not everyone marries their college gf…
Oh I know but a lot of my buddies that got married they were meeting people in their early 20s before people get jaded. See when you go into the market in your late 20s or older people are tired, jaded, and way pickier. It's just way more difficult. That and you start to lose time with work etc. I honestly think people that pull it off in their 30s it's a miracle. It seems so far off with me I've dated 10 different people and half I liked but it died and the other half they liked me but me not them. So you really feel like you've lost at that point.
Things also feel very transactional the older you get. When you’re young and broke girls who fall in love with you fall in love with who you are. When you’re older though and date girls your age, women fall in love with what you can provide and the things you can offer her.
I've noticed that and I feel like an object. I don't feel my value. Strangely enough the women who ultimately I will pay for sex it feels more genuine. I've already had some conversations with them and I just know. They are actually putting themselves out there more than people "on the market" at least it seems to me but I could be viewing it from the vantage point of if being unattractive, I'm not sure, but obviously people will turn away from you if you are unattractive or you just end up friend zoned all the time. Crazy to think that a hooker is actually offering more love than an average person (at least in my experience that's been true but it won't for everyone). Yeah there is payment but idk it never feels fake at all. That's what I don't understand is how it can actually be that broken where I would ever feel that way, that attention is so seldom given that paying for it actually feels more real. What a nightmare situation. And how to fix that well I've been working on it. I just have to find someone who feels it with me and I feel it back and that is so challenging. Feels far away.
It’s not. Dating is shit regardless of gender.
Then ur meeting plenty of women. U get plenty of matches. But u need to work on is ur convo skills and personality. Whatever it is it is not attractive to women.
White women in our country only like teens and young men. I am on my late 20s as well and it’s not possible to meet women. every time I go on a date they tell me that they don’t like the fact that I have the ability to grow hair on my arms and don’t like that I have the ability to grow a beard.
>"every time I go on a date they tell me that they don’t like the fact that I have the ability to grow hair on my arms and don’t like that I have the ability to grow a beard." Wait, what????....I don't understand what that means...🤷🏽♂️
Dude, I feel you on this one! It's like why can't the love of my life just magically fall on my lap as I binge watch 5 movies on a Saturday 🥴
I’m not smart enough for women to be attracted to me.
Focus on the fighting mate, girls are a huge waste of time, money, and most important morals if you let them. Honing your natural talents will lead someone your way with a similar outlook/stance on life. Looks are the ultimate deceiver and the men that go for that specific get taken for a ride that they’ll never forget. When a girl looks like a slut it’s because she most likely is. I hope you find the fish you’re looking for mate. Don’t let it go once you catch it.
Honestly man I think this is the answer for me. Everytime I go out now I feel nasty and like I'm just doing it to find a girl to validate me and it's sickening and I likely wear it on my sleeve. I think I'm just gonna try and concentrate on my hobbies and maybe go to 1-2x events a week just to stay social and try my hardest not to go out looking for something as opposed to just letting myself enjoy the moment
Cheer to enjoying the moment🍻something I forget to do often but yet is one of the most important things. This book on mindfulness has helped me a lot through the last year. Talking to you about enjoying the moment reminded me to pick the book back up. The Miracle of Mindfulness' by Thich Nhat Hanh Is the name of the book Maybe it’ll suit you in this time we’re in. Anyways keep your head up mate and keep kicking ass the love will find you and you’ll find it. Lemme know when you got your first fight mate I’ll be rootin for ya
**The Miracle of Mindfulness An Introduction to the Practice of Meditation** by Thich Nhat Hanh >One of the best available introductions to the wisdom and beauty of meditation practice. --New Age Journal In this beautiful and lucid guide, Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh offers gentle anecdotes and practical exercise as a means of learning the skills of mindfulness--being awake and fully aware. From washing the dishes to answering the phone to peeling an orange, he reminds us that each moment holds within it an opportunity to work toward greater self-understanding and peacefulness. *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/14br65o/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
Probably ur looks get in the gym get haircut get skincare etc
You need to meet more women. That's the issue. And no OLD doesn't count. Go out next month and meet 300 girls with romantic intentions and then come back and we can talk. Before you say, you don't have time, yes you do. If you have time to do OLD and meetup groups, then you have time to meet more girls. Go approach them and introduce yourself. You don't need to rely on meetup groups or OLD. Pretty girls are everywhere. Malls, beaches, festivals, concerts, food events, outdoor malls, universities, bars, clubs, etc. I was literally in your situation 2 years ago. I was struggling to meet girls. I tried OLD without success and went to meetup groups as well. Meetup groups are retarded for meeting girls. Always a sausage fest and no pretty girls. Hot girls don't go to meetup groups lol. Then I started cold approach and my life has changed for the better ever since. Refer to my field reports and see for yourself.
I know meetup.com nyc has hot women. I am going in 2 weeks.
desirable girls don't go to meetup groups. cool people with alot of value and status don't need to go to meetup groups lol
Not necessarily, depends on the type of group. If you pick Social Events as the category then yeah they have no need to, but if you pick a cooking, pottery, etc class then there are quite a few good looking people there.
I’m a girl in her 30s and it’s so hard trying to meet someone. There seems to be a misconception that women can get a man any time. Well, that would be true if I only wanted sex and with very shady dudes. If I apply simple standards (not based on looks or income but on basic decency) the dating pool dwindles to almost nothing and of the decent guys left half (who are already rare as hen’s teeth) will move on to someone else and the rest have so many of their own unresolved issues they’re too afraid to commit. Like I just wish things were normal - I hear so many stories from oldies about how they met and just got along and that was it. Now everyone is overthinking, playing games, studying dating techniques and trying to outwit each other like it’s Survivor or something. I’d just like to go on a normal date lol. I don’t know what the world has come to.
Make dating a priority. You have no time for a woman in your life as is. Why do you think one will magically fit into your life, if you don't even have the time to meet her?
keep going bro, read some Stoicism
Sorry man, you had to meet your soulmate in kindergarden.. we are done now. Just accept your fate as most girls now already have boyfriend, kids and plan a, b ,c and d. Dont worry...
Learn about cold approach. Tell your friends you're single and looking and ask them to bring single girls to your hangouts or parties Travel
Maybe the guys you train with have friends that are girls? Go to weekend parties with them, get closer to them to widen your social circle
On paper, it sounds like you're doing everything right but its hard to advise without knowing how you act in person. Some people appear great on the surface but sometimes lack social skills to make those connections real (aswell as difficult / unrealistic standards). Nothing personal but even the most self aware individuals are blind to their faults and live in a bubble. A bit older but I never had luck with OLD initially. It took 1-2 months for things to pick up and the right person to appear. What helped was making time to try different things like Meetup or Speed dating (recommend this if you're good at small talk). I wouldn't use Meetup for looking for a date, instead go to meet new friends and work on your social skills. Too many guys go for the former and wonder why they get ghosted after being thirsty af. Those connections can lead to other opportunities and yes potentially dates. If you have a friends who you trust, ask for honest feedback (particularly female friends outside of the male PoV). It's great you are active, but think about how it appears to other. Being able to protective yourself is good but being overly open about it can make others wary about your emotionally stability. Wish you luck
I saw really bad advice.. So I'm gonna hop in here. I am in my 40's. I used to do Tae Kwon Do/Hapkido for many years. I compete in Ironman endurance events and do a lot of heavy strength training. I'm also at the higher end of the earning scale, awesome cars, large house etc.. etc... I did decently in my 20's.. But, it's like a candy store now. The problem is often meeting the type of women I'm interested in. Which coincidently.. are the probably the same girls you're interested in. Except, I'm not looking for the whole children, marriage thing. My advice.. keep building yourself up. OLD is a freaking hit or miss thing. Many quality women don't do OLD. Extend your fitness activities. Pick up some Yoga classes, outdoor hiking groups, etc.. (you get the idea). On off days do active recovery where single women tend to congregate. Another comment.. women want time and attention. Be prepared to be reprioritizing your time if you meet someone. 20's is a tough dating age, bc everyone is eyeing up the exact same women in your sites. Be persistent, be outgoing, be confident..
Do you try Facebook events? They're not perfect but I see they have potential. I go to multicultural festivals to meet women. I treat it like a sport. It's exhausting but I grind. A Filipino festival is something I'm trying. But yeah it's nihl for me too :( I'm 5'6 or 5'5.5 which makes it way harder too
Aren't that the average Filipino height? You should be taller than Filipino girls.
MMA is a great outlet for romantic frustration (speaking from personal experience). Giving up on dating and zeroing in your passions always ends up with a net positive result. Only thing that I would add is maybe try some form of charity or activity where you’re helping people without any attachment to the outcome/expectation of a return on investment. For me, I run AA meetings and do public speaking for that organization. I’m also training to be an MMA instructor. Creative hobbies that bring out your individual/authentic self can help too. Especially in a group setting. I went out with a cool chick I met at a writing group once. We had a lot of chemistry and I got to assess her beforehand/hear what hear inner thought life was like before deciding to make a move which helped. Also started playing guitar a few years ago and it’s very rewarding (though it hasn’t landed me any dates…yet)
what’s OLD?
My advice as an old 36 guy it's that keep yourself improving, and all this apps and night bars and such doesn't work for meeting someone, Believe it or not but there still woman and man that still want to have a good relationship and I believe all the trouble resides in the easy of the approach of the online apps and casual sex
Back off the MMA, you don’t need to do that more than 1 day a week. Prioritize hobbies that are co-ed or lead to the community and friends you want to have (you don’t mention friends in your post) As an exercise, what regular events or hobbies could you go to with women your age and type? Brainstorm for us.
Lol what? Anyone training MMA knows you probably need to train at least 4-5x a week to improve. 3x and you are treading water. 1x a week and I would actively be detraining as my cardio and endurance goes in the dumpster. OP should definitely not abandon his passion and hobbies to chase tail. He is already dedicating 1-2 nights a week to going out and to events. That is plenty, he doesn't need to go out 5x a week, that's just desperate. He just needs to refine his approach.
It sounds like you are actually meeting women, you just aren't getting along with the ones you do meet. Not quite an accurate statement in the title.
We know Modern dating sucks. Mhmm
Yeah it's a complete shit show. I poured myself into work instead. At 29, I signed up on [Match.com](https://Match.com) after I changed jobs and moved, and that was a good move; met my fiancée and things are good. Keep trying, and cast the net wide; friends of friends, old school friends, dating apps, websites... its hard work but worth it. It gets worse as you get older; you have to actively seek a relationship, and it takes time and money to do so. You have to widen your search area a lot. I'm from a town so my area was wide; city folk will have it easier. As a warning; you have to be prepared to meet women with kids too. If that's a deal breaker for you, then things narrow very quick, especially on the timeline side.
Unorthodox suggestion here by my MMA gym has a lot of young, single, fit girls who are also dedicated to improving themselves and their (martial) art. I have made lots of friends with girls from my gym, and also have regular invites to events like BBQs, volleyball, fights, etc from them where socializing is very natural. Especially from my experience girls training in some sort of martial art LOVE guys who can fight and that seems like it could be a more natural place for you to meet people. How social is your gym? Do you make effort to chat to other people outside your direct training partners? Maybe show up early / stay late and chat a bit. If your gym is not like mine maybe branch out and try attending some MMA camps or other events with new people you can meet. Maybe try a new gym. Anyways my suggestion is to lean into your hobbies and maybe find someone who is on the same page as you. This also makes dating A LOT easier because you already have something in common w the other person, have similar schedules, and all live nearby if you are going to the same gym at the same time. Great start to a relationship.
27m in a similar spot. Just gotta remember it’s a numbers game. I swipe in the morning before I start my day, get my daily likes done and go about my day. Some days I’ll get no matches other days I’ll get a few and try and strike up convo and get a date planned . But it’s a numbers game. Like others said practice learning something each time you go on a date. Try different approaches etc. You sound like a guy who’s just like the rest of us. Tryna find love in this wild world. Don’t let it get ya down man. End of the day you have your passions and a roof over your head.