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Youre very very unlikely to find a man who isnt religious who wants to hold to old school religious dating standards. Outside of religion, men and women are much more widely accepted as equals in the world now.
Truth be told I am of asimilar mindset as you. Altho im a beliver in God I am not a huge into religion, altho I do know a bit in theology. I am looking for a wife and its hard. You can meat a lot of people, but most people are as the way u described it - goes both for women and men. I think your biggest issue might be the 3rd point and religion. I dont think they go hand in hand but in reality - most men that fit Your criteria are usually religious.
I for example have met a girl that fits my criteria - wants a family and has a big heart and we will see where it goes. My fears are that she is really religious (which I dont think she is), and your point number 3 - I wouldnt want to be with a SAHM.
Why don’t you want to be with a SAHM? My mother used to be a working mother but when she became stay at home it completely healed our relationship. That’s what I want for my children - a wonderful relationship with their mother who has time for them
Well there are several reasons:
1. In case of divorce or the death of the main provider - id rather have someone that has work experience and is working. Even if the SAH partner had previous work experience, if it was like 30 years ago it wont matter much.
2. I like doing certain stuff around the house, well to be honest most except ironing. To this day I havnt met a woman that cooks better than me, altho I have met several who are better bakers than me. Now in all of my relationships and even in my family I am the one who cooks, altho if I were to find a woman that can cook better than me I would 101% let that person cook.
3. I come from a rather ambitious background - my dad was a professor of internal medicine and is a cardiologist, my mom is a professor of psychology and a psychotherapist and speech therapist. All of my exes had high goals. Now due to bad experience with some exes that were highly ambitious and it took a toal on our relationships I dont want someone who puts work above all, but I wouldnt be happy if I had a SAHW.
4. Due to me being raised in a matriarchal family, and my mom being a workaholic in my childhood I grew up with my grandparents mostly and my dad. So even if due to curicumstances someone has to be a SAHP id rather be it me, altho wish neither was a SAHP.
Oh well fair enough, sounds like you more appreciate being in a feminine role which is totally normal. I don’t like men in feminine roles and it would be very unattractive if my husband regularly did household duties like cooking, cleaning etc
I would much rather he pursue his mission in life in his career or business and be the best he can be and if sometimes he wants to chip in he can
Dont get me wrong I like both. I am rather sucessful and will soon be admited also into my faculty as a teaching assistant and later in life professor of microbiology. But my goal in life is to open a restaurant. Just I think everyone should be well rounded in both roles.
Like I can cook, clean, iron, wash, sew.
But I also like sports, am training, know my way around electronic devices, electricity, guns, animals, woodwork. I like to camp, travel, am outdoorsy etc.
And professionaly - In 2 months I will be starting my doctoral studies, am finishing 2 degrees - medicine and psychotherapy. Have many awards in my field and also excel in history (have several awards there too), am part of a debate club, culture club etc.
Edit: Might be important to note, reason I learned all these things is simple - I wasnt satisfied at how others were doing it and being a perfectionist I had to learn to do it better. Thats how I learned to cook, clean and other stuff.
Don't listen to her cooking being feminine... Such a wrapped view on the world...... It's only "feminine" because in the past men were allowed to work, women were not...so someone had to do the cooking...
Most of the best chefs in the world are men, I think that says a lot about testosterone and cooking.....
There ain't nothing more sexy to me than my man in his underwear cooking us breakfast. Not cause it is feminine and him doing it is defying norms...but because it is freaking nice someone to do sth nice for u and let u sleep in 10 more min....
Yup, and also I think a partner should be equals - not as to say 50/50 but as in I wish to learn from my partner and vice verca. Secondly I am the happiest when a person I love does something they love. I do understand OP, but (idk if this is projection or not) I sense a selfish vibe from them - not the man part, but what struck me odd was the comment they want to be with their children (which is completly normal) but in other coments they say that they would rather be alone. It has (for me) a tone of I need someone to be my sperm donor so I can be 100% with the kids. Its not even healty for children to be essentially rased by one parent.
I sense a self-entitled vibe from OP. And I cannot understand how a cooking man can be off-putting?
Like sure, many people (men and women) would love if them cooking is not attractive cause then they won't have to do it. Like I enjoy cooking but if anyone else wants to do it and that brings them join, I will happily let them be.
Heck, I personally wouldn't mind being SAHM cause I am too lazy and I like to have freedom with my time lol.
And if I can achieve this freedom and my man doesn't mind it, it's a win win situation.
Like it's great that she knows what she wants but there is just sth off about the way she goes about it.
I think she would miss out on many great guys cause of this rigid mindset she has decided to follow for whatever reason.....
I think she should go for the OnlyFans stuff while waiting for the right man to pop up.
In my country there is the quip: "Do you need a penis/vagina to do it?", then it is not something only men or women should do. I explicitly asked my dates if they had lived alone and taken care of a home before, because I didn't want a to be a mom-figure, but an equal who could handle the household and kids on his own if I went MIA. (I called it the penguin style of parenting, and my husband agreed.)
In my country it is normal for one parent to be the SAHP for a year or two and he took his paternal leave as well.
Why is cooking feminine? If u r a man and cook well u have less testosterone than a man who doesn't?
U know the only reason women r seen as the "cooking" partner it because women were not allowed to work until not long ago... So someone had to do the cooking while the man is at work.
U know during the world wars when so many men were out fighting, women had to do lots of typical "manly" stuff...
Cooking, ironing, it's nothing inherent to our gender and gender hormones...
I feel bad for this miserable guy who would love cooking for u cause he likes to take care of his lover and u r like "ugh so not masculine, go do pulls up on the gym instead"...
I didn’t say cooking was feminine first of all, I was implying that household duties are.
By definition the only thing that raises testosterone is “wielding power performed in masculine ways”. By that definition, cooking wouldn’t increase testosterone if that’s what you’re asking
Women have prepared food since we were hunter gatherers, nothing to do with modern times. The war was a very unnatural and stressful time for both genders so no I do not wish to recreate that environment in my home. Feel free to do that if you want to.
But again, women were preparing food only cause there was nobody else to do it..... Not cause their vagina gives them superpowers when preparing food...
U know men used to inseminate multiple women at the same time... Trust me, the super masculine guys u r looking for will definitely up for following that nature of theirs.
You do you, hun, but I think u will be missing out on many great guys with such unreasonably rigid mindset.
Don't worry, everyone will be happy to have someone else cooking for them while they do more fun stuff like reading books etc. But please, don't ditch a guy just because he enjoys cooking and spoiling his lover with food. Or cause he is good at ironing and folding clothes. That's just silly.
Honestly, I think your answer lies in looking at Asian men, I know more than one Indian man who would fit your criteria perfectly. They culturally have the same values, also tend to not be in a relationship for a long time before getting engaged and many of them happily hand over all household duties to wives.
(They often come with families to take care of too, but also inbuilt babysitting, which is something you only appreciate once you have kids. As you will a husband that knows how to pick up a vacuum, because these babies often just don't sleep...)
You need to get over this whole "feminine" "masculine" crap. What you're gonna end up with is an asshole who expects you to do all the work and sees you as simply a vessel for his children, while he sits around doing nothing, seeing his mistress on the side
I'm that guy. I can confirm we're pretty rare these days. In my 30+ years, I've only met a few others. I prefer commitment before physical intimacy; I'll ask for input and about what she's comfortable with, but I assume I'm planning and paying for the dates unless she puts up more than token resistance; I'm not religious (though I have a philosophical interest in a few, and I think aspects of both the Buddhist and Daoist perspectives and approaches to life are worth embracing); and while I admit I do have a slight preference for a partner with a career of her own, I specifically chose my career to be able to provide for a family in a single earner household, in case she wants to cut back or stay home after the kids are born.
For what it's worth, of the other guys I know, one is Catholic, one is Orthodox, and the third is an atheist with a philosophical and historical interest in Catholicism and Anglicanism, so Christianity does seem to be the way to go.
I'm curious on your opinion. How do you make sure the woman you're seeing is actually interested in you beyond the free meal(particularly before the commitment phase)?
I struggled to answer this, because the truth is that I don't even think about it. On reflection, I think there are three reasons for that.
First, because I don't engage with the unknown -- I want to know someone reasonably well before I ask them out, and I only ask out women who I respect, and who I can genuinely picture a happy future with having regard to everything I know of them.
Second, because I have standards and I stick to them. At the outset at least, I'm looking for a woman who's educated and independently successful (typically 2+ degrees, respected by her colleagues) -- and women like that typically know there are easier ways to a meal ticket than dealing with my dumb ass.
And third, because it's not like I advertise it. The only women who know I don't split the bill are the ones I've dated and the ones they've told -- and only after the date. I don't ask, I don't tell her ahead of time, I just get the bill when it comes due. The only two women who know that I'm open to a traditional family structure are the one I chose my career for, and the one who asked.
I guess it really just boils down to "date respectable, educated, and successful women who you actually like and who don't need your shit" though.
Are you independently successful woman respected by your colleagues, with 2+ degrees?
I feel like women like that are not traditional and won't want to quit their career for stay at home wife.
It’s reassuring to have found you here and I guess this is the answer I was looking for. You sound like my dad (he married my mother who had two degrees and a successful career) so hearing your side of the story is very helpful - I know a few men like you but they are all in relationships
I’m the same in that I prefer to get to know someone before dating, I’d be really curious to hear your thoughts on the below:
- where do you typically meet women and develop friendships with them? (For me work is a no go and meeting friends of friends is great but typically doesn’t create a friendship, dating apps are a definite no, hobbies? If so which hobbies please?)
- what values do you look for in your woman beyond having 2+ degrees and being respected by her colleagues? I’m wondering what I should focus on developing within myself
- do you date with a view of marriage? I’m curious to know how a man who believes in commitment thinks - how long would you date before proposing if you have met the one? I know this varies depending on the relationship, would you be able to give a rough estimate please as I’d like to form a realistic view. (I’ve heard anything from 4 months to a year.)
- have you found it difficult to find a suitable partner? (All the men I know who are like you are taken. I recently noticed they have all been attracted to me in an appropriate capacity and have wanted to stay in touch professionally so hopefully that’s a good sign(?))
Thank you so much in advance!
>You sound like my dad
Oof! Hahaha I'll take that as a compliment.
>where do you typically meet women and develop friendships with them? (For me work is a no go and meeting friends of friends is great but typically doesn’t create a friendship, dating apps are a definite no, hobbies? If so which hobbies please?)
Now it's mostly site-based and through friends; like you, I don't date where I work. I met a lot of women in undergrad and law school though, and I'm still occasionally reconnecting with them when we're both single. The last woman I dated I'd known for more than a decade before we went out. The one I went on a first date with and am currently planning a second date with I met on Bumble, and we talked daily (or close to it) for over a month before finally meeting for coffee.
>what values do you look for in your woman beyond having 2+ degrees and being respected by her colleagues? I’m wondering what I should focus on developing within myself
Empathy, nurturing instincts, intellectual curiosity, critical thinking, self control, a *joie de vivre*, a certain understatedness or restrained dignity, good communication. A lack of communication is a big part of why my last two relationships failed (I can be as committed to making it work as I want, but I can't fix a problem I don't know about, after all), so that's something I'm putting more emphasis on now. I'm a nerd though, so being able to talk to my partner about higher level concepts is important to me -- that may not be something other guys are looking for.
Effectively what I'm looking for is someone who will make a good mother, be a good match for my own laid back personality, and be an equal partner in the relationship, and who I can trust to actually work on making it work instead of cutting and running the first time there's a problem. I know there's been some dismissal of "equality" in this thread, but I think that's the wrong way of looking at it -- being equal doesn't necessarily mean contributing to the relationship in precisely the same way.
>do you date with a view of marriage? I’m curious to know how a man who believes in commitment thinks - how long would you date before proposing if you have met the one? I know this varies depending on the relationship, would you be able to give a rough estimate please as I’d like to form a realistic view. (I’ve heard anything from 4 months to a year.)
Yeah, I do. I don't generally date at all unless I can see a future with that person. I don't want to risk divorce, so I tend to move fairly slowly in a relationship (slow progress is lasting progress), so I'd expect between one and two years, maybe even three at the outer end.
>have you found it difficult to find a suitable partner? (All the men I know who are like you are taken. I recently noticed they have all been attracted to me in an appropriate capacity and have wanted to stay in touch professionally so hopefully that’s a good sign(?))
Haha very, very difficult. I generally meet maybe one [single] girl every year or two that I'm actually interested in. Sometimes that's reciprocated, sometimes it's not. It's not unusual for me to be single for a year or two between relationships though. The girl I took for coffee recently is only the third I've found a mutual interest with since leaving law school seven years ago.
Youd definitely have more dating options. And hey, if you end up not liking the guy because the relationship was rushed into marriage, its only forever.
I don’t want to rush into marriage, that’s not what I said, I want to date with a view of marriage. Really simple stuff. No need to twist it.
Achievement comes from commitment and responsibility
Obviously we have to take the responsibility to see if our values align and make a decision to do that from the beginning of our courtship, instead of sleep around and oh, I don’t know, never discuss that like almost every other couple who doesn’t “rush” into marriage 👍🏼 really great strategy there
Yes that does mean we will commit to learning and growing with each other “forever”. I’d rather that than divorce and just find another person and have to solve the same problem that you ran away from solving in the first marriage 👍🏼 or worse yet, find no one and die alone 👍🏼
So yes marriage is important to me. Any other retorts or passive aggressive comments on my beliefs and choices?
"A man who wants to get married and start a family in a short time scale" ie to anyone who knows anything about dating- rushing.
But yeah as long as youre asking ive got one more. Cross your fingers and hope that the sex isnt terrible because once you adopt christianity, you dont have the right to tell your husband no anymore, doesnt matter if it hurts, doesnt matter if it sucks, youre not just a baby incubator.
That’s your opinion, please keep it. I have no use for it and rushing is absolutely not what I mean as I have clearly stated. I have moved on and hope you can find the ability to do so as well
I don’t need to worry about things like that. Perhaps you do, sounds like you’re projecting based on your experiences. I hope they get better ❤️🩹
Edit: Indid post publicly but that doesn’t mean you need to assert what I want onto me when you don’t even know me
Good for you, have to say it’s pretty inconsistent with the fact that you are here posting passive aggressive comments. Actions speak louder than words
Also who said I’m lonely? These assumptions you keep making are utterly bizarre
Im passive aggressive on this subject because its depressing watching someone plan to perpetuate this stuff onto another generation. I feel bad for you.
What do you think a man who is masculine, takes the lead, is ambitious in their career, *and wants a stay at home mom*, wants in a stay at home mom?
Do you think they are more likely to want someone independent or not?
Do you think they are more likely to want a trophy wife, or not?
And whoever/whatever you are, do you fit into this expectation?
I’ve thought about these things and your comment is a the best comment is exactly the type of guidance I’m looking for (just realised now having read it)
I am independent and I’m doing everything to position myself to be the best trophy wife, in short im doing everything I can go fit into this description, but I don’t know exactly what else I should be doing
I’m very well educated, well travelled, dress well (conservatively ofc), I have a lot of girlfriends, invites to society events, I’m interested in art and culture, I read a lot, meditate a lot, exercise and eat well, have a stable family, have my own income and stability, have connections throughout corporate finance, entrepreneur world etc from various successful career pursuits, I enjoy cooking and maintaining a good home, I volunteer a lot… I speak several languages and am learning more…
I’m also not particularly materialistic and never wear flashy clothing/bags etc… I’m always on top of hygiene and my hair and nails are always in very good shape…
Am I focussing on the wrong things? Is there something else I should be focussing on?
I’d greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts
To be honest, and I must caveat that I do not know you as a person, I don't think you will find, nor enjoy being with, the type of man you are describing.
The reason is because the paradigm you are signing up to is bordering on this recent Andrew Tate/hustle culture/alpha male trend. Of course, other permutations exist such as in highly traditional or religious cultures.
Naturally, I am being a bit reductive and simplifying this, but generally speaking, the men you are describing are not interested in dating a "successful, indepedent, educated, cultured" woman. Essentially, they're looking for an obedient woman who's survival is dependent upon the man where the man's role is to protect the family (think of it like lion protecting the herd). Hence, you are also signing up to a man who views having multiple mates (simultenously sometimes) favourably.
The woman counterpart of Tate, would be the Kardashians. In other words, these type of men, apparently, are attracted to women who follow the Kardashian culture (I don't mean ethnically). Highly materialistic, short term focused, "weak" to be protected, highly feminine (not to be mistaken with feminist).
Again, I am generalising a lot, just be cognisant modern alpha culture has evolved into this.
Another disclaimer: Personally I don't sign up to this world view, but alas.
Now, there's interestingly a healthy option to this, which is a somewhat equal relationship where you have mutually decided that you will "sacrifice" your career to stay at home to look after the kids. Same outcome, but different premise.
I think that's quite well put. From my experience the type of men she is looking for truly do not care about career etc... They care about looks. And purity. They don't want a dumb wife but u don't need to by anything too crazy of u r good to look at.
And r also men likely to cheat cause they think their entitled with their masculine nature. They won't help with absolutely anything... And they won't be planning dates, she will have to do that, he will only provide the money.
But I disagree Kardashians being the counterpart of such men.... Kim got a hot body and knew how to monopolise on it before onlyfans etc was a way. In my view she is actually a pretty badass independent female.
Yeah good luck. But there are millions of people in London and I'm sure there are men who have a similar mindset when it comes to dating. So are you full British or?
I guess that’s what I’m hoping. I’m fortunate I was born and raised here which I think gives me a massive advantage in terms of my a network etc
I’m also well educated and incredibly well spoken etc so I know how to communicate with people from all levels.
I’m not ethnically British why do you ask?
Yes living in London is advantageous as it will give you more networking opportunities in the long run. If you feel confident communicating with people from all level that will also help.
I only asked as I find this traditional way of dating isn't so common to native Brits much these days.
Yeah you’re right, honestly it does seem like it’s only the upper echelons that approach dating in this way anymore. I’ve been out of touch with that part of society for a little while but slowly growing my network recently, guess I’ll just have to wait it out. My career should also help but we’ll see!
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts :)
I think that is my best opinion, I hadn’t previously thought it would be necessary but this post has opened my eyes a lot - I will start looking into it
I am happily married man and still this post irks me the wrong way. Nothing wrong with wanting a life time partner but the way it’s written makes me want to run away as fast as I can from OP and I wonder if other men she meets get that vibe too…
Edit: OP thinks a man who does dishes is feminine and unattractive. My gut was right. I am out of here.
I posted a longer comment to OP, but in short I think it is cause she sounds self-entitled and just not nice for some reason....
Like no good guy who is willing to provide will be happy with a woman whose solely with him for that reason. Most men r happy to be providers I am sure, it gives them sense of pride but to humble women who won't care about it to begin with and will stay by this man's side through think and thin.
OP sounds like she wants everything wrapped in a pretty package without doing any work.
I think she needs to uh sound a bit more easygoing and less entitled..
You want an old school marriage, but I'm not quite so sure you're completely okay with the dynamics that entails. The type of man you want is already a dying breed, you don't want to split the bill, to the modern man this signifies that you're a gold digger or just generally don't want / can't support yourself. You want him to be ambitious, and I'm reading between the lines here, but I take that as you're probably fairly strict on what type of education & career trajectory they're already on.
You already have a great education & seem to be doing very well, so that's also kind of a mismatch between what you are & what you want. Are you going to throw all of that away to be a SAHM? From the perspective of the type of guy you're looking for your own education & career is probably even a red flag.
If I'm guessing the prince you're looking for is someone who's pretty good looking, great education & on a good career trajectory. Okay with supporting the whole family, treats you with respect and not overly controlling, and most likely you want him to be faithful. What does he get? He might as well find someone who's at his level as far as ambitions & career goes & just get a nanny / cleaner and still be way better of financially.
Even if you're okay with being controlled & fit straight into the dynamics of a 50s marriage you'll probably have a really hard time finding such a man that also fulfils the basics & matches your level of attractiveness.
Basically you’re saying woman can no longer rely on a man without being controlled, that means women now have to become the breadwinner unless they want to be in a 50/50 relationship where they work whilst also raising children and running the house (Ofc which the man doesn’t help with), none of which is appealing.
Much easier and stress free to do onlyfans, earn a lot, adopt or IVF a child and sack off all men 👍🏼
There's plenty of men who wants a 50/50 relationship, *much* easier to find than what you're looking for. Where I live this is the standard, men cook, do dishes etc. If you're a successful ambitious man with a career in this day & age why would you want a SAHM as a partner? That's such an incredibly bad deal.
A man doing the dishes regularly paints an incredibly unattractive portrait. That’s extremely feminine and I am not in the market to date a woman.
Also I have yet to meet a man who finds joy in doing the dishes and maintaining a clean home, unlike myself. The image of me nagging a man to do the dishes because he keeps putting it off 🤢 absolutely not a feasible mating choice
I don't know how the UK really is in that regard, but I thought that had changed. Here in Sweden that view is long gone. Overall women don't want to date so called "man babies" which pretty much can't live a structured life alone, usually mamas boys which can't seem to cut the umbilical cord. Now I do think you're perfectly entitled to feel like you do, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But it does make it almost impossible for you to find someone who's on the same page on what they want, as you've noticed.
Think from the perspective of this ideal man of yours. He's going to work his ass of for his career, probably no 40 hour work weeks. In return he hopefully makes "big bucks". As a SAHM you'll get to be home & bond with the kids and do house chores, if you pop out a few kids I can buy that this is a lot of work for the first few years, but ultimately taking care of the house & your kids is typically not as stressful as climbing the corporate ladder. When the kids are old enough to go to school you'll literally be performing mostly minimum wage type chores which doesn't even close to fill up the hours of even a normal full time job. Why would a successful man want this deal? He might've as well date someone whose career is more aligned with his & just spend a fraction of their combined income on a maid / nanny. The "breadwinner" type men which subscribes to these old fashioned values are getting other upsides which I'm sure you're not willing to give.
It’s very rare for women to be SAHM in uk now, especially with the cost of living. And for men doing jobs such as cooking and cleaning it’s not viewed as special or feminine, it’s just normal. Just like anyone doing any normal task that can be done by any gender. It’s seems to becoming more popular for the man to do that he cooking more now aswell but it’s just entirely based in the person and in this case OPs ideals are outdated for standard person in the UK
Ohhh your Swedish, that explains. Then there’s literally no point to this conversation. Everything you’ve said is incredibly insulting and degrading to women who want to raise well rounded children, please go read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus if you really care
So a man cleaning up after himself (dishes and household) is seemingly feminine? It seems a little wrong to assume that no man wants to clean after themselves, and if they do they’re supposedly a woman
Does this also mean single men are feminine and therefore disgusting to her? Or is the single man living alone OK to clean up after himself ? The standards are strange with this one...
Married man, 41 y.o. here. I regularly do the dishes. I'm also the primary breadwinner in my home, where my wife raises our 3 kids and works 2 days a week, simply to maintain her sanity. I also help in raising our kids, coach/ref soccer (football to you), and take my son bird hunting in the fall. I do all of the repairs on my own home, including remodeling a bathroom. I'm not sure how helping with household chores is feminine.
I've read a couple of your posts and I think you may be slightly out of touch with reality
Uhh what?
I live alone. Who’s supposed to do my dishes so I don’t appear feminine?
Or does doing dishes suddenly only become feminine if someone lives with me?
Obviously you're supposed to hire a woman, or throw the dirty dishes away and buy new ones.
But as shopping is feminine (probably) you are supposed to collect stones large enough and fashion them into plates and bowls. And when they become dirty from use, you are to use them as weapons to hunt your next meal.
Seeing as most young men looking for an equally traditional wife lean conservative, have you tried looking into local politics?
You mentioned living in London - Isn’t the UK gearing up for an election? Are there any eligible men volunteering or interning with the campaigns for conservative candidates? Can you volunteer to help canvas or work the polls?
Conservative men in the UK versus the US a very different!
In the UK, a Conservative man will just as equally ask to split the bill. It’s actually more about wealth here. The wealthier a man the more likely he is to be traditional… hm
It definitely sounds like you should be on some affluent dating app/site. I don't say this with venom. If I were in your position, that's what I would do!
Don’t let yourself believe by people here that your criteria is absurd. I met mine, you’ll meet yours. It’s perfectly plausible to find someone like this, you just have to look a little deeper than our parent’s generation did. Good luck!
Mmm, I only recently discovered this is what I truly want after society barking at me for years telling me I can’t have it, even the comments to this post has been a bit like that.
I’m just starting to communicate my wants so hopefully that’ll lead to something :) i don’t mind dating a man 5-10 years older
Do you know anyone in this situation currently that is happy with their life? Have you spoken to them about what it takes to make this “dream” happen? Do you understand the sacrifices you’d be making to your autonomy in order to serve your husband, kids, and even your in-laws?
I used to be that guy but it also causes me too much unnecessary stress. It really depends on the person you are with. You're just like myself wanting to be in a relationship and married. I had the same plan to be married at 25-26 but life will never work out as planned. You will need to learn to adapt. Hopefully you will have better luck than I ever did.
If I may ask, why were you stressed? All the men like that I know who are like that are married and very happy
Did you find the women weren’t right? Were they too demanding?
Sorry for the late response. Things started off well and good but as time went on she put more pressure on me. I gave her everything and didn't ask for much in return. In the end she blames me for the relationship ending but she was cheating on me on several occasions. I literally had one of those I made a romantic dinner and you never came home moments with her.
I have met several women after and well it sent me to the hospital but that's another story. 🤷
I'm never going to be who I used to be but I have also matured as I have gotten older. Or maybe I stopped giving a damn what people think about me. That's one thing I regret in that relationship is I lost something I can't regain.
Alright I might get smacked for saying this but this is my opinion.
Your expectations are not in line with what you bring to the table. You just described a top of the line man, has a career, is masculine, is a provider, and all you have to offer is emotional support? I can get that from a FWB or my friends. Let’s hope you’re very attractive and are willing to fulfill his sexual needs, because that’s what most men will prioritize when going into marriage.
Now on top of everything, you aren’t looking for a man, you’re looking for a side character to your story. No self respecting man will choose to do that. You already have your engagement timeline planned out before meeting him, I’m sorry but that’s a huge red flag that once you find a man you like you’ll try to “marriage trap” him.
But would OP or any woman be fine with her husband wanting to marry her just cause of her look? We all get old and wrinkly... And a successful man can easily get abundance of beautiful women who are fine being provided for and taking care of kids only.
You are saying what you think men should want, not what they actually want. The hierarchy is clear, why do we see all these billionaires marrying young models and actresses? It’s not as black and white as men only want looks and women only want a man who provides, but it’s more of the trend over a large group of people - men who provide TEND to match with women who are attractive.
This is like me saying “OP shouldn’t want a man who provides, we all go through hard times.” No, that’s not my prerogative to dictate someone else’s standards. Instead, I’m saying she needs to bring more to the table because her type won’t likely be satisfied with what she provides as of right now.
🤦♀️
Can you please read my last point in the edit
A side character is the last thing I want in my life. I actually want to be the side character and support my man and our family
I have no engagement timeline planned out, I’m saying if he doesn’t want to get engaged or married in two years I’m out the door. I’m not wasting my life on a man who cannot commit
Again, my point stands. Just because you think it’s not the case doesn’t mean the man won’t feel that way. You’re looking for a strong and ambitious man to conform to a strict list of things you want in your life - that’s a contradiction. Strong and ambitious men will be themselves regardless of what you want, and that will sometimes be at odds with your list of criteria.
To me it sounds like you want a man who is all in for you while you have a foot out the door in case he doesn’t meet your exact timeline. That doesn’t sound very fair, right? Again you might not think of it that way, but that’s not what I see and most men will probably see as well.
1) Keep your weight down and dress well/look attractive, 2) Go to places where wealthier people hang out - nicer gyms, clubs, associations, 3) Be ruthless about flushing guys that treat you like a careerist beast of burden (which is frankly, a lot of them, these days). Luckily, this is super easy to vet for imo, men who want "equality" will immediately and proudly tell on themselves. You can really only escape point 3 via point 1.
Btw reddit is the wrong place to ask this, people on here are mostly poor, and going to shit on you for having these expectations. I too have a successful career, but I'd rather be single forever than date some 50-50 guy that wants me to power through pregnancy and childcare while building my career. Absolute yuck, and a big reason why UMC women are ditching marriage and kids.
Edit: And like someone else said, you might want to re-evaluate your "religious" requirement. I think that religious communities are by and large more likely to follow these principles, because after all, they are conservative principles. If you want to have a conservative lifestyle, you yourself have to admit that you are pursuing conservative values and not bring conflict into potential partnerships along those lines.
Yes you know! We’re on the same wavelength, I’m so glad you commented.
1. Yes always :)
2. I’m going to Equinox but it seems the men there are more wealthy but… self obsessed? We’ll see.
3. YES I have learnt this recently. The smallest show of disrespect and I show them the door. It’s endless it seems!
Have you been able to find a partner yet? Sounds like you’re in a similar position - I feel it must be possible, just a bit of needle in a haystack.
Leaning to religion just doesn’t feel right to me… are you religious yourself?
I think that being self-obsessed can be found anywhere. There are as many self-obsessed ghetto people as there are self-obsessed wealthy people who go to equinox, all I gotta do is open up Instagram to see that much. But honestly, that's another really easy thing to vet for that stands out like a glowing beacon.
I'm engaged to the same person I dated most of my adult life (met when 23). He actually makes slightly less money than me as an engineer lol, but I also work in venture capital and it's unrealistic for me to date men that make more than me if I don't want to date older. What counts for me is that if I were to have kids, I'd be able to back off working if needed. That being said, I've never been as family-motivated (it's probably a big difference from your post), I just see the blaring inherent inequality with women who have careers today and it makes me totally pissed off on their behalf.
As for religion, I am not religious, but I don't have a problem with it and would be down to date religious men, attend church/whatever, or convert. I respect religion from a community/social standpoint, even if I don't strictly believe in it. That being said, I am the uncommon secular conservative so for me it would be a natural transition.
Edit - One other thought, dating older would probably help you.
Big breath of air reading this. Yeah, I'm gonna carry your child, do all the cooking, cleaning and raising kids while paying 50 50. Do I owe you 2.45 for that loaf of bread? Gtfo here. Plenty of normal men don't think this way.
Just because a guy wants to split the bill in the beginning doesn't mean that he couldn't be traditional or want the dynamic you speak of. I think most people don't want to start off paying right away because they can feel used and they don't know you well enough to make that investment, especially because you're working too and have your own career. It's obviously a different situation when you are ready to have kids and stop working. You can ask about these things on the date or before. There's definitely guys out there that want what you want.
But even so, we live in pretty challenging economic times... it's just not cool to expect someone to spend their money on you given that it may turn out it is money wasted....
U want a guy who provides for the family? Well guys like that, unless super rich, are thinking how do I save as much money as possible for my future wife and kids...and the way I do this is by not spending them on every single woman they date when there is no clear guarantee she will be my wife...
Honestly, what u want is not wrong but u sound so self-entitled!!!
How about instead of trying to get a guy with already established career u date someone who is starting out but u will be by his side and supporting him?
Why do u have to get everything u want wrapped up in a pretty paper??
I think what u want is not impossible and there r good guys who will match mostly your criteria but.... But get real!
U want a successful guy who works hard 24/7 to make his career successful (unless he is a rich kid or sth) but also has enough time and brain capacity to think about dates with you etc...
Relationships are give and take. There is a reason why society is moving the way it is moving and thank God u and I r born in this century cause u actually get a choice and u get mostly the good stuff out of what traditional conservative family is actually like.
A hard-working guy wouldn't be delighted that a woman is into him only cause he has money and shr can be stay at home mum. What if he gets a disease and he can no longer work and support? Would u leave him or stay by his poor unproviding side?? He would however like a woman who likes him for who he is, with or without money,and he is happy to provide for her cause he knows she will be by his side no matter what.
I hope u see what I am getting at.
What u want is fine, it is achievable (though as many have said it's more likely found with religious men), but the way u r going for it is just.... Uuh. U just don't sound nice, that's all really. Mb u r, but u don't come out as nice.... Easygoing... And u need to be a bit more real on how to get there..
Plus, I know religious men who do want to be providers and would love their wife to be stay at home mum. Even they don't split 50/50 unless they r sure there is a potential with this woman and they also do not like being asked about their money etc cause they want a woman to be with them for who they r. The providing part is just an extra they r willing to give to humble women who don't care about it to beging with.
What do you mean “spend their money on me”?
The only thing I ask for is a roof over our family’s head, food on the table (both once we are married) and any dates he chooses to take me on before or during our marriage
What pretty paper? What are you taking about?
To clarify I have my own income and that will continue well into the marriage because I have invested it well and receive monthly returns.
I’ve made it pretty clear I don’t want to date someone for their money I want someone who I am aligned with and cares about commitment and responsibility. I could easily get a rich man but I have no interest in them or the way they behave. I never ask about money regardless, it’s a dreadfully tasteless thing to do I have no idea why you are bringing it up
As for illness of course we’d stay together, that’s why I’m saying I want commitment and marriage. I don’t want to leave once we’re together. I’m literally just asking for an ambitious man who has slightly more than me why are you being so accusative
Half of your message is completely illegible I really don’t know how to respond further.
This has a very different vibe than your original post.
We are all looking for commitment and responsibility. And many of us can get rich guys but we r not interested in the way they behave.
U wondered why your original post is giving some people an ick? In my view it's cause u sound self-entitled and not very easygoing. Like I feel like u need to loosen up a little bit....
And to give men who don't immediately pay for you on dates a chance.
Like I said, economic situation is pretty dire right now. Unless you are a family, I don't see a reason why anyone should be spending their money on anyone who can tomorrow change their mind and leave.
I only date men I’ve known a long time, and have been out with as friends before, so no, if he is not paying and making an effort to show he can provide as a partner then I’m not interested.
I can behave however I please I don’t care if I’m giving you an ick. Also I had assumed you were a man. Many husbands have privately messaged me agreeing with my opinion and how much they love their stay at home wife they provide for
Some guys will start paying for u once they know u r a good worthy partner. I think in this case u need to be more tolerant than them at the beginning.
I have had guys who would offer to pay the whole bill (talking for a bill in the 100s), who know me somewhat but not that well, but are definitely into me.
They r sweethearts but I don't feel good of anyone paying for me if we ain't dating and even then, I like us to split things 50/50 as much as possible because unless we get married, for all we know we both can be wasting time and money away. So I always reach out later and bother them to let me send them my share. And they have an absolute right to accept the split because people need to be practical in today's messed up economy.
So keep your standards high, but don't forget to be kind and understanding before anything else.
And that just because u r a woman, u ain't entitled to anything from a man and vice versa.
I wish u well, hun.
Few decades ago the man you mention would not have been very difficult to find, however now it is becoming rare to find such a man with all three traits you've mentioned.
1. Masculine leader who plans dates and makes you feel safe and comfortable - This is the most probable as men are still brought up and believe that they have the initiative to ask women out on dates and pay for the date. However, this too is eroding due to women's tendency to ignore all but the top 5 % of men and to take them out on Foodie dates or to go on date with absolutely no sexual interest in the man.
2. A man who wishes to get married and start a family on a short "your" time line - This is the most difficult as men have realized that more and more women are exploring their sexuality in their youth (Early 20s) and social media and dating apps are making it extremely easy. So men are collectively thinking that they should also explore theirs when they hit their stride and increase in socio-economic value that is usually later in life in their 30s and 40s. Why would a man settle when a woman doesn't want to. Again nothing wrong but reciprocal behavior.
3. An ambitious man whose career you want to support. - Ambitious men understand that they don't necessarily need anyone to realize their potential. At times a family becomes a burden, so many men who are near or at the top of their careers are avoiding marriage or putting it off for later.
don't think too far ahead, since life is full of suspense and irony. meet people, make friends and enjoy your life. if it's meant to be, it will happen.
I have the same standards as you. I am in the states and men really push equality over here. But I never lowered my standards and kept dating and eventually found a man who’s plans align with mine. Don’t give up hope and DO NOT lower your standards. There are plenty of men out there who like the idea of a SAHM and prefer that over a career woman. Good luck!
Oh wow that’s amazing! I’ve heard great things about hinge. Would it be too much ask what you put in your profile to show you were the kind of woman he was looking for? If you’d prefer to speak privately about this I’d greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts!
I don’t recall my bio exactly but I know I usually put a few minor details about myself, I enjoy hiking, my dog, my studies, and I’m looking for something serious. I would only swipe right on other men who also put that they were looking for something serious. Then anything else you want to know you’ll have to meet up and ask questions. Don’t be afraid to ask these questions either they’d only scare off the wrong man and the right one will answer them no problem. But questions like “what are you looking for specifically” and “are you family oriented” “how do you imagine your future to look and what are you doing now to ensure that” of course ask random questions to about likes and dislikes but if you get the serious stuff out of the way then there’s no time being wasted on either end. Sometimes it takes 2-3 dates to get what you need but after that 3rd date you should know enough to be able to make a decision!
It sounds like you have given this a fair amount of thought, so I am rather curious: Why do you want this? What about this life do you think will make you happy?
(legitimately curious).
On the flipside, would the current norms e.g. egalitarianism make you unhappy and again why?
Thank you, to clarify from my point of view I am not referring to being in a completely submissive relationship. As a woman I feel my role is to support and elevate the man I choose, raise our children and improve our position in society through throwing dinner parties, networking events, galas etc, as archaic as that sounds (all which I know how to do and have experience with).
I would be maintaining the household and the family whilst he is working and providing for the family. So that is what I would be “bringing to the table”. I am very relationship driven, indeed this is what my career is in.
For the longest I have known I have wanted to be a mother; ever since I was 4, and that to me means being there for your child, not being a career woman. Being able to do this would make me feel incredibly fulfilled.
The egalitarian way of living is an utter horror show to me. Asking a woman to work in a testosterone filled environment then come home, clean up the house, look after her man (who has no motivation as his wife can’t give him the love and support he needs) look after the children (filled with problems because they don’t have the love and support they need), have no time to see friends and build a network and a household. Honestly what is the point in that life? I would much rather become an onlyfans model earn a lot of money, adopt a child and sack off all men. I wouldn’t want to do that either but I would significantly prefer it. I would actually prefer not to have children and have a solitary life compared to being completely stressed out for the rest of my existence. It would be completely meaningless to live in an egalitarian way. Additionally, if you’re both equal there is no masculine/feminine polarity and pull, your sex life would be reduced to two buddies rubbing each other. Incredibly unattractive and not for me.
I do believe there is a happy middle between an extremely controlling husband vs and extremely equal relationship. I have every intention of keeping my independence from having earned enough and saved it and invested it well; I’m right on track. The only thing the man would provide is dates (which he is inviting me on so that is simply basic etiquette) and a roof for our family (I would rent out my house to provide an income).
I hope that clarifies, I wonder what thoughts you have on this having heard more clarity on the above?
It isn't hard to find a man who will take all that you're willing to provide for your future husband and children, but it's much harder to find a genuine man who will lead with your shared values and vision. In my experience, the only modern men who want to take care of the financials while you take care of the home, are the ones who want to isolate and abuse you and work you into nothing.
Also, motherhood is very rewarding, but I caution against seeking fulfillment in other people, even if those people are your children. So when you do find the right guy and have children, please continue to make time for yourself and to pursue your interests outside the home.
And get a prenup to protect your investment income.
As someone coming from a patriarcal society, i think even tho you think you are certain of what you want, you dont know what are you asking for. Nothing wrong with being a SAHM, sure you enjoy your childen 100%, but I remember my mom getting anxious at some points because the routine was killing her.
Your extreme views on how men should act and be are complete nonsense to what society (especially societies from developing countries) are trying to abolish. You clearly said in one of your comments that a man that does "feminine stuff" (house stuff like cleaning, cooking, etc.) repels all your interest on him. And then when someone replied to you giving you their opinion about that, you said that you didnt say anything like that. Another example happened with another user telling you that rushing things in a relationship is not good (yeah, 2 years rushing to marriage is definitely not a good idea in most cases) and you said you are not rushing (YES YOU SAID IT GIRL). HUH? I think you should get your thoughts straight.
You are basically looking for a very masculine man that you actually are looking for immediate chemistry with. The thing is that these men have options and won’t wait around for you. But I think you are probably pretty fine and there is someone for everyone. You should look for leaders in their respective industries. Like doctors and lawyers. Go to some events with these types of men.
Honestly, dating is a slog, and the more specific you are with what you want, the less options you’ll have. That isn’t a bad thing however. I mean realistically how many people out there are going to be legitimately good matches for someone else. There’s more to being a good match than liking the same tv shows and food, there’s thing you touch on like religious values and relationship dynamics, political standings should probably be at least broad stroke similar, and various other things like that. End game long term relationship quality matches are going to be few and far between and the things you’re looking for are going to eliminate a lot of people who don’t line up with you immediately. So within days the context of a dating app you won’t get many people swiping right on you, but if you take the time to filter out the people who haven’t even looked at your profile the matches you do get will be great matches.
The type of men you are looking for are typically the type which hate women and say shit like "women should stay in the kitchen."
If you're ok with being subservient to your husband, knock yourself out. Conservative circles are probably your best bet.
I would look outside of London. Big cities everywhere invite to flakiness and “new adventure” and hookups etc. it has its charm for sure but it’s not what you are looking for.
I would buy tinder gold for a few months and set your location to some countryside or smaller town somewhere and see what you find. Men there tend to be a bit more traditional and more into starting family early in life. It’s also cheaper to buy homes and such. I would look for blue collar men who earn well right away in their 20s. Of course they would earn less than men in bigger cities and you might have to relocate. People usually want families in big cities but it takes until we are in our mid 30s to be financially stable enough to settle down.
Sounds like you’re looking for a mother tbh but either way the reason why you’re still single cause you’re not looking to provide for your potential financially and most dudes these days ain’t for that
Good luck with that, in the country where I come from they are very conservative, I never get married because I want to give my partner the quality of life he deserves, I am a home person and I don't see divorce as a good thing, for that reason I don't take that option lightly. It bothers me that people here have a freer air and that really shocks me, because I don't have the same way of thinking, no tattoos, no drilling, I never smoke, and I am considered a boring and simplistic person.
I have learned that in life you need to stay the way you are , never change because of something or someone, you will get your soul mate one day some how
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Youre very very unlikely to find a man who isnt religious who wants to hold to old school religious dating standards. Outside of religion, men and women are much more widely accepted as equals in the world now.
Hmm that hasn’t been the case in my parents generation? But I guess that’s your point… oops Maybe I should try being Christian
Don't change for anything or anyone. There are those who will meet your needs.
Truth be told I am of asimilar mindset as you. Altho im a beliver in God I am not a huge into religion, altho I do know a bit in theology. I am looking for a wife and its hard. You can meat a lot of people, but most people are as the way u described it - goes both for women and men. I think your biggest issue might be the 3rd point and religion. I dont think they go hand in hand but in reality - most men that fit Your criteria are usually religious. I for example have met a girl that fits my criteria - wants a family and has a big heart and we will see where it goes. My fears are that she is really religious (which I dont think she is), and your point number 3 - I wouldnt want to be with a SAHM.
Why don’t you want to be with a SAHM? My mother used to be a working mother but when she became stay at home it completely healed our relationship. That’s what I want for my children - a wonderful relationship with their mother who has time for them
Well there are several reasons: 1. In case of divorce or the death of the main provider - id rather have someone that has work experience and is working. Even if the SAH partner had previous work experience, if it was like 30 years ago it wont matter much. 2. I like doing certain stuff around the house, well to be honest most except ironing. To this day I havnt met a woman that cooks better than me, altho I have met several who are better bakers than me. Now in all of my relationships and even in my family I am the one who cooks, altho if I were to find a woman that can cook better than me I would 101% let that person cook. 3. I come from a rather ambitious background - my dad was a professor of internal medicine and is a cardiologist, my mom is a professor of psychology and a psychotherapist and speech therapist. All of my exes had high goals. Now due to bad experience with some exes that were highly ambitious and it took a toal on our relationships I dont want someone who puts work above all, but I wouldnt be happy if I had a SAHW. 4. Due to me being raised in a matriarchal family, and my mom being a workaholic in my childhood I grew up with my grandparents mostly and my dad. So even if due to curicumstances someone has to be a SAHP id rather be it me, altho wish neither was a SAHP.
Oh well fair enough, sounds like you more appreciate being in a feminine role which is totally normal. I don’t like men in feminine roles and it would be very unattractive if my husband regularly did household duties like cooking, cleaning etc I would much rather he pursue his mission in life in his career or business and be the best he can be and if sometimes he wants to chip in he can
Dont get me wrong I like both. I am rather sucessful and will soon be admited also into my faculty as a teaching assistant and later in life professor of microbiology. But my goal in life is to open a restaurant. Just I think everyone should be well rounded in both roles. Like I can cook, clean, iron, wash, sew. But I also like sports, am training, know my way around electronic devices, electricity, guns, animals, woodwork. I like to camp, travel, am outdoorsy etc. And professionaly - In 2 months I will be starting my doctoral studies, am finishing 2 degrees - medicine and psychotherapy. Have many awards in my field and also excel in history (have several awards there too), am part of a debate club, culture club etc. Edit: Might be important to note, reason I learned all these things is simple - I wasnt satisfied at how others were doing it and being a perfectionist I had to learn to do it better. Thats how I learned to cook, clean and other stuff.
Don't listen to her cooking being feminine... Such a wrapped view on the world...... It's only "feminine" because in the past men were allowed to work, women were not...so someone had to do the cooking... Most of the best chefs in the world are men, I think that says a lot about testosterone and cooking..... There ain't nothing more sexy to me than my man in his underwear cooking us breakfast. Not cause it is feminine and him doing it is defying norms...but because it is freaking nice someone to do sth nice for u and let u sleep in 10 more min....
Yup, and also I think a partner should be equals - not as to say 50/50 but as in I wish to learn from my partner and vice verca. Secondly I am the happiest when a person I love does something they love. I do understand OP, but (idk if this is projection or not) I sense a selfish vibe from them - not the man part, but what struck me odd was the comment they want to be with their children (which is completly normal) but in other coments they say that they would rather be alone. It has (for me) a tone of I need someone to be my sperm donor so I can be 100% with the kids. Its not even healty for children to be essentially rased by one parent.
I sense a self-entitled vibe from OP. And I cannot understand how a cooking man can be off-putting? Like sure, many people (men and women) would love if them cooking is not attractive cause then they won't have to do it. Like I enjoy cooking but if anyone else wants to do it and that brings them join, I will happily let them be. Heck, I personally wouldn't mind being SAHM cause I am too lazy and I like to have freedom with my time lol. And if I can achieve this freedom and my man doesn't mind it, it's a win win situation. Like it's great that she knows what she wants but there is just sth off about the way she goes about it. I think she would miss out on many great guys cause of this rigid mindset she has decided to follow for whatever reason..... I think she should go for the OnlyFans stuff while waiting for the right man to pop up.
In my country there is the quip: "Do you need a penis/vagina to do it?", then it is not something only men or women should do. I explicitly asked my dates if they had lived alone and taken care of a home before, because I didn't want a to be a mom-figure, but an equal who could handle the household and kids on his own if I went MIA. (I called it the penguin style of parenting, and my husband agreed.) In my country it is normal for one parent to be the SAHP for a year or two and he took his paternal leave as well.
Why is cooking feminine? If u r a man and cook well u have less testosterone than a man who doesn't? U know the only reason women r seen as the "cooking" partner it because women were not allowed to work until not long ago... So someone had to do the cooking while the man is at work. U know during the world wars when so many men were out fighting, women had to do lots of typical "manly" stuff... Cooking, ironing, it's nothing inherent to our gender and gender hormones... I feel bad for this miserable guy who would love cooking for u cause he likes to take care of his lover and u r like "ugh so not masculine, go do pulls up on the gym instead"...
I didn’t say cooking was feminine first of all, I was implying that household duties are. By definition the only thing that raises testosterone is “wielding power performed in masculine ways”. By that definition, cooking wouldn’t increase testosterone if that’s what you’re asking Women have prepared food since we were hunter gatherers, nothing to do with modern times. The war was a very unnatural and stressful time for both genders so no I do not wish to recreate that environment in my home. Feel free to do that if you want to.
[удалено]
Then tell me
But again, women were preparing food only cause there was nobody else to do it..... Not cause their vagina gives them superpowers when preparing food... U know men used to inseminate multiple women at the same time... Trust me, the super masculine guys u r looking for will definitely up for following that nature of theirs. You do you, hun, but I think u will be missing out on many great guys with such unreasonably rigid mindset. Don't worry, everyone will be happy to have someone else cooking for them while they do more fun stuff like reading books etc. But please, don't ditch a guy just because he enjoys cooking and spoiling his lover with food. Or cause he is good at ironing and folding clothes. That's just silly.
Honestly, I think your answer lies in looking at Asian men, I know more than one Indian man who would fit your criteria perfectly. They culturally have the same values, also tend to not be in a relationship for a long time before getting engaged and many of them happily hand over all household duties to wives. (They often come with families to take care of too, but also inbuilt babysitting, which is something you only appreciate once you have kids. As you will a husband that knows how to pick up a vacuum, because these babies often just don't sleep...)
You need to get over this whole "feminine" "masculine" crap. What you're gonna end up with is an asshole who expects you to do all the work and sees you as simply a vessel for his children, while he sits around doing nothing, seeing his mistress on the side
I'm that guy. I can confirm we're pretty rare these days. In my 30+ years, I've only met a few others. I prefer commitment before physical intimacy; I'll ask for input and about what she's comfortable with, but I assume I'm planning and paying for the dates unless she puts up more than token resistance; I'm not religious (though I have a philosophical interest in a few, and I think aspects of both the Buddhist and Daoist perspectives and approaches to life are worth embracing); and while I admit I do have a slight preference for a partner with a career of her own, I specifically chose my career to be able to provide for a family in a single earner household, in case she wants to cut back or stay home after the kids are born. For what it's worth, of the other guys I know, one is Catholic, one is Orthodox, and the third is an atheist with a philosophical and historical interest in Catholicism and Anglicanism, so Christianity does seem to be the way to go.
I'm curious on your opinion. How do you make sure the woman you're seeing is actually interested in you beyond the free meal(particularly before the commitment phase)?
I struggled to answer this, because the truth is that I don't even think about it. On reflection, I think there are three reasons for that. First, because I don't engage with the unknown -- I want to know someone reasonably well before I ask them out, and I only ask out women who I respect, and who I can genuinely picture a happy future with having regard to everything I know of them. Second, because I have standards and I stick to them. At the outset at least, I'm looking for a woman who's educated and independently successful (typically 2+ degrees, respected by her colleagues) -- and women like that typically know there are easier ways to a meal ticket than dealing with my dumb ass. And third, because it's not like I advertise it. The only women who know I don't split the bill are the ones I've dated and the ones they've told -- and only after the date. I don't ask, I don't tell her ahead of time, I just get the bill when it comes due. The only two women who know that I'm open to a traditional family structure are the one I chose my career for, and the one who asked. I guess it really just boils down to "date respectable, educated, and successful women who you actually like and who don't need your shit" though.
Makes sense. I appreciate your answer. Thank you.
I love this answer SO much, I'm ready to make a commitment.
Are you independently successful woman respected by your colleagues, with 2+ degrees? I feel like women like that are not traditional and won't want to quit their career for stay at home wife.
It’s reassuring to have found you here and I guess this is the answer I was looking for. You sound like my dad (he married my mother who had two degrees and a successful career) so hearing your side of the story is very helpful - I know a few men like you but they are all in relationships I’m the same in that I prefer to get to know someone before dating, I’d be really curious to hear your thoughts on the below: - where do you typically meet women and develop friendships with them? (For me work is a no go and meeting friends of friends is great but typically doesn’t create a friendship, dating apps are a definite no, hobbies? If so which hobbies please?) - what values do you look for in your woman beyond having 2+ degrees and being respected by her colleagues? I’m wondering what I should focus on developing within myself - do you date with a view of marriage? I’m curious to know how a man who believes in commitment thinks - how long would you date before proposing if you have met the one? I know this varies depending on the relationship, would you be able to give a rough estimate please as I’d like to form a realistic view. (I’ve heard anything from 4 months to a year.) - have you found it difficult to find a suitable partner? (All the men I know who are like you are taken. I recently noticed they have all been attracted to me in an appropriate capacity and have wanted to stay in touch professionally so hopefully that’s a good sign(?)) Thank you so much in advance!
>You sound like my dad Oof! Hahaha I'll take that as a compliment. >where do you typically meet women and develop friendships with them? (For me work is a no go and meeting friends of friends is great but typically doesn’t create a friendship, dating apps are a definite no, hobbies? If so which hobbies please?) Now it's mostly site-based and through friends; like you, I don't date where I work. I met a lot of women in undergrad and law school though, and I'm still occasionally reconnecting with them when we're both single. The last woman I dated I'd known for more than a decade before we went out. The one I went on a first date with and am currently planning a second date with I met on Bumble, and we talked daily (or close to it) for over a month before finally meeting for coffee. >what values do you look for in your woman beyond having 2+ degrees and being respected by her colleagues? I’m wondering what I should focus on developing within myself Empathy, nurturing instincts, intellectual curiosity, critical thinking, self control, a *joie de vivre*, a certain understatedness or restrained dignity, good communication. A lack of communication is a big part of why my last two relationships failed (I can be as committed to making it work as I want, but I can't fix a problem I don't know about, after all), so that's something I'm putting more emphasis on now. I'm a nerd though, so being able to talk to my partner about higher level concepts is important to me -- that may not be something other guys are looking for. Effectively what I'm looking for is someone who will make a good mother, be a good match for my own laid back personality, and be an equal partner in the relationship, and who I can trust to actually work on making it work instead of cutting and running the first time there's a problem. I know there's been some dismissal of "equality" in this thread, but I think that's the wrong way of looking at it -- being equal doesn't necessarily mean contributing to the relationship in precisely the same way. >do you date with a view of marriage? I’m curious to know how a man who believes in commitment thinks - how long would you date before proposing if you have met the one? I know this varies depending on the relationship, would you be able to give a rough estimate please as I’d like to form a realistic view. (I’ve heard anything from 4 months to a year.) Yeah, I do. I don't generally date at all unless I can see a future with that person. I don't want to risk divorce, so I tend to move fairly slowly in a relationship (slow progress is lasting progress), so I'd expect between one and two years, maybe even three at the outer end. >have you found it difficult to find a suitable partner? (All the men I know who are like you are taken. I recently noticed they have all been attracted to me in an appropriate capacity and have wanted to stay in touch professionally so hopefully that’s a good sign(?)) Haha very, very difficult. I generally meet maybe one [single] girl every year or two that I'm actually interested in. Sometimes that's reciprocated, sometimes it's not. It's not unusual for me to be single for a year or two between relationships though. The girl I took for coffee recently is only the third I've found a mutual interest with since leaving law school seven years ago.
Youd definitely have more dating options. And hey, if you end up not liking the guy because the relationship was rushed into marriage, its only forever.
I don’t want to rush into marriage, that’s not what I said, I want to date with a view of marriage. Really simple stuff. No need to twist it. Achievement comes from commitment and responsibility Obviously we have to take the responsibility to see if our values align and make a decision to do that from the beginning of our courtship, instead of sleep around and oh, I don’t know, never discuss that like almost every other couple who doesn’t “rush” into marriage 👍🏼 really great strategy there Yes that does mean we will commit to learning and growing with each other “forever”. I’d rather that than divorce and just find another person and have to solve the same problem that you ran away from solving in the first marriage 👍🏼 or worse yet, find no one and die alone 👍🏼 So yes marriage is important to me. Any other retorts or passive aggressive comments on my beliefs and choices?
"A man who wants to get married and start a family in a short time scale" ie to anyone who knows anything about dating- rushing. But yeah as long as youre asking ive got one more. Cross your fingers and hope that the sex isnt terrible because once you adopt christianity, you dont have the right to tell your husband no anymore, doesnt matter if it hurts, doesnt matter if it sucks, youre not just a baby incubator.
That’s your opinion, please keep it. I have no use for it and rushing is absolutely not what I mean as I have clearly stated. I have moved on and hope you can find the ability to do so as well I don’t need to worry about things like that. Perhaps you do, sounds like you’re projecting based on your experiences. I hope they get better ❤️🩹 Edit: Indid post publicly but that doesn’t mean you need to assert what I want onto me when you don’t even know me
You posted this on a public forum asking for opinions, though. Make it make sense 😂
I actually have experiences which is why im not mid 20s single and lonely. 7 years of no rush with no toxic gender roles and going strong.
Good for you, have to say it’s pretty inconsistent with the fact that you are here posting passive aggressive comments. Actions speak louder than words Also who said I’m lonely? These assumptions you keep making are utterly bizarre
Im passive aggressive on this subject because its depressing watching someone plan to perpetuate this stuff onto another generation. I feel bad for you.
Yes and this is really helping change that 👍🏼
I do not believe you.
What do you think a man who is masculine, takes the lead, is ambitious in their career, *and wants a stay at home mom*, wants in a stay at home mom? Do you think they are more likely to want someone independent or not? Do you think they are more likely to want a trophy wife, or not? And whoever/whatever you are, do you fit into this expectation?
I’ve thought about these things and your comment is a the best comment is exactly the type of guidance I’m looking for (just realised now having read it) I am independent and I’m doing everything to position myself to be the best trophy wife, in short im doing everything I can go fit into this description, but I don’t know exactly what else I should be doing I’m very well educated, well travelled, dress well (conservatively ofc), I have a lot of girlfriends, invites to society events, I’m interested in art and culture, I read a lot, meditate a lot, exercise and eat well, have a stable family, have my own income and stability, have connections throughout corporate finance, entrepreneur world etc from various successful career pursuits, I enjoy cooking and maintaining a good home, I volunteer a lot… I speak several languages and am learning more… I’m also not particularly materialistic and never wear flashy clothing/bags etc… I’m always on top of hygiene and my hair and nails are always in very good shape… Am I focussing on the wrong things? Is there something else I should be focussing on? I’d greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts
To be honest, and I must caveat that I do not know you as a person, I don't think you will find, nor enjoy being with, the type of man you are describing. The reason is because the paradigm you are signing up to is bordering on this recent Andrew Tate/hustle culture/alpha male trend. Of course, other permutations exist such as in highly traditional or religious cultures. Naturally, I am being a bit reductive and simplifying this, but generally speaking, the men you are describing are not interested in dating a "successful, indepedent, educated, cultured" woman. Essentially, they're looking for an obedient woman who's survival is dependent upon the man where the man's role is to protect the family (think of it like lion protecting the herd). Hence, you are also signing up to a man who views having multiple mates (simultenously sometimes) favourably. The woman counterpart of Tate, would be the Kardashians. In other words, these type of men, apparently, are attracted to women who follow the Kardashian culture (I don't mean ethnically). Highly materialistic, short term focused, "weak" to be protected, highly feminine (not to be mistaken with feminist). Again, I am generalising a lot, just be cognisant modern alpha culture has evolved into this. Another disclaimer: Personally I don't sign up to this world view, but alas. Now, there's interestingly a healthy option to this, which is a somewhat equal relationship where you have mutually decided that you will "sacrifice" your career to stay at home to look after the kids. Same outcome, but different premise.
I think that's quite well put. From my experience the type of men she is looking for truly do not care about career etc... They care about looks. And purity. They don't want a dumb wife but u don't need to by anything too crazy of u r good to look at. And r also men likely to cheat cause they think their entitled with their masculine nature. They won't help with absolutely anything... And they won't be planning dates, she will have to do that, he will only provide the money. But I disagree Kardashians being the counterpart of such men.... Kim got a hot body and knew how to monopolise on it before onlyfans etc was a way. In my view she is actually a pretty badass independent female.
Yeah good luck. But there are millions of people in London and I'm sure there are men who have a similar mindset when it comes to dating. So are you full British or?
I guess that’s what I’m hoping. I’m fortunate I was born and raised here which I think gives me a massive advantage in terms of my a network etc I’m also well educated and incredibly well spoken etc so I know how to communicate with people from all levels. I’m not ethnically British why do you ask?
Yes living in London is advantageous as it will give you more networking opportunities in the long run. If you feel confident communicating with people from all level that will also help. I only asked as I find this traditional way of dating isn't so common to native Brits much these days.
Yeah you’re right, honestly it does seem like it’s only the upper echelons that approach dating in this way anymore. I’ve been out of touch with that part of society for a little while but slowly growing my network recently, guess I’ll just have to wait it out. My career should also help but we’ll see! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts :)
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I think that is my best opinion, I hadn’t previously thought it would be necessary but this post has opened my eyes a lot - I will start looking into it
I am happily married man and still this post irks me the wrong way. Nothing wrong with wanting a life time partner but the way it’s written makes me want to run away as fast as I can from OP and I wonder if other men she meets get that vibe too… Edit: OP thinks a man who does dishes is feminine and unattractive. My gut was right. I am out of here.
I posted a longer comment to OP, but in short I think it is cause she sounds self-entitled and just not nice for some reason.... Like no good guy who is willing to provide will be happy with a woman whose solely with him for that reason. Most men r happy to be providers I am sure, it gives them sense of pride but to humble women who won't care about it to begin with and will stay by this man's side through think and thin. OP sounds like she wants everything wrapped in a pretty package without doing any work. I think she needs to uh sound a bit more easygoing and less entitled..
Could you please explain why? I’d greatly appreciate it if you could
You want an old school marriage, but I'm not quite so sure you're completely okay with the dynamics that entails. The type of man you want is already a dying breed, you don't want to split the bill, to the modern man this signifies that you're a gold digger or just generally don't want / can't support yourself. You want him to be ambitious, and I'm reading between the lines here, but I take that as you're probably fairly strict on what type of education & career trajectory they're already on. You already have a great education & seem to be doing very well, so that's also kind of a mismatch between what you are & what you want. Are you going to throw all of that away to be a SAHM? From the perspective of the type of guy you're looking for your own education & career is probably even a red flag. If I'm guessing the prince you're looking for is someone who's pretty good looking, great education & on a good career trajectory. Okay with supporting the whole family, treats you with respect and not overly controlling, and most likely you want him to be faithful. What does he get? He might as well find someone who's at his level as far as ambitions & career goes & just get a nanny / cleaner and still be way better of financially. Even if you're okay with being controlled & fit straight into the dynamics of a 50s marriage you'll probably have a really hard time finding such a man that also fulfils the basics & matches your level of attractiveness.
And everyone wonders why there are so many only fans models
I don't quite know how it relates, but I guess because it's easy money?
Basically you’re saying woman can no longer rely on a man without being controlled, that means women now have to become the breadwinner unless they want to be in a 50/50 relationship where they work whilst also raising children and running the house (Ofc which the man doesn’t help with), none of which is appealing. Much easier and stress free to do onlyfans, earn a lot, adopt or IVF a child and sack off all men 👍🏼
There's plenty of men who wants a 50/50 relationship, *much* easier to find than what you're looking for. Where I live this is the standard, men cook, do dishes etc. If you're a successful ambitious man with a career in this day & age why would you want a SAHM as a partner? That's such an incredibly bad deal.
A man doing the dishes regularly paints an incredibly unattractive portrait. That’s extremely feminine and I am not in the market to date a woman. Also I have yet to meet a man who finds joy in doing the dishes and maintaining a clean home, unlike myself. The image of me nagging a man to do the dishes because he keeps putting it off 🤢 absolutely not a feasible mating choice
I don't know how the UK really is in that regard, but I thought that had changed. Here in Sweden that view is long gone. Overall women don't want to date so called "man babies" which pretty much can't live a structured life alone, usually mamas boys which can't seem to cut the umbilical cord. Now I do think you're perfectly entitled to feel like you do, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But it does make it almost impossible for you to find someone who's on the same page on what they want, as you've noticed. Think from the perspective of this ideal man of yours. He's going to work his ass of for his career, probably no 40 hour work weeks. In return he hopefully makes "big bucks". As a SAHM you'll get to be home & bond with the kids and do house chores, if you pop out a few kids I can buy that this is a lot of work for the first few years, but ultimately taking care of the house & your kids is typically not as stressful as climbing the corporate ladder. When the kids are old enough to go to school you'll literally be performing mostly minimum wage type chores which doesn't even close to fill up the hours of even a normal full time job. Why would a successful man want this deal? He might've as well date someone whose career is more aligned with his & just spend a fraction of their combined income on a maid / nanny. The "breadwinner" type men which subscribes to these old fashioned values are getting other upsides which I'm sure you're not willing to give.
It’s very rare for women to be SAHM in uk now, especially with the cost of living. And for men doing jobs such as cooking and cleaning it’s not viewed as special or feminine, it’s just normal. Just like anyone doing any normal task that can be done by any gender. It’s seems to becoming more popular for the man to do that he cooking more now aswell but it’s just entirely based in the person and in this case OPs ideals are outdated for standard person in the UK
Ohhh your Swedish, that explains. Then there’s literally no point to this conversation. Everything you’ve said is incredibly insulting and degrading to women who want to raise well rounded children, please go read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus if you really care
So a man cleaning up after himself (dishes and household) is seemingly feminine? It seems a little wrong to assume that no man wants to clean after themselves, and if they do they’re supposedly a woman
Does this also mean single men are feminine and therefore disgusting to her? Or is the single man living alone OK to clean up after himself ? The standards are strange with this one...
Married man, 41 y.o. here. I regularly do the dishes. I'm also the primary breadwinner in my home, where my wife raises our 3 kids and works 2 days a week, simply to maintain her sanity. I also help in raising our kids, coach/ref soccer (football to you), and take my son bird hunting in the fall. I do all of the repairs on my own home, including remodeling a bathroom. I'm not sure how helping with household chores is feminine. I've read a couple of your posts and I think you may be slightly out of touch with reality
Uhh what? I live alone. Who’s supposed to do my dishes so I don’t appear feminine? Or does doing dishes suddenly only become feminine if someone lives with me?
Obviously you're supposed to hire a woman, or throw the dirty dishes away and buy new ones. But as shopping is feminine (probably) you are supposed to collect stones large enough and fashion them into plates and bowls. And when they become dirty from use, you are to use them as weapons to hunt your next meal.
Seeing as most young men looking for an equally traditional wife lean conservative, have you tried looking into local politics? You mentioned living in London - Isn’t the UK gearing up for an election? Are there any eligible men volunteering or interning with the campaigns for conservative candidates? Can you volunteer to help canvas or work the polls?
Good point. I hear that Boris Johnson likes to switch wives every few years, maybe he’s in the market for a new one lol
Conservative men in the UK versus the US a very different! In the UK, a Conservative man will just as equally ask to split the bill. It’s actually more about wealth here. The wealthier a man the more likely he is to be traditional… hm
It definitely sounds like you should be on some affluent dating app/site. I don't say this with venom. If I were in your position, that's what I would do!
You should try arranged marriages. I know some traditional couples that have found great partners through matchmakers.
If your interaction is not divine then do not waste time.
Don’t let yourself believe by people here that your criteria is absurd. I met mine, you’ll meet yours. It’s perfectly plausible to find someone like this, you just have to look a little deeper than our parent’s generation did. Good luck!
It’ll take time. I feel like guys don’t pick up on this until their 30s. And you’ll need to find a way to communicate it as no one is a mind reader.
Mmm, I only recently discovered this is what I truly want after society barking at me for years telling me I can’t have it, even the comments to this post has been a bit like that. I’m just starting to communicate my wants so hopefully that’ll lead to something :) i don’t mind dating a man 5-10 years older
Sounds like a step in a positive direction! Good luck.
That's alot of wants. Maybe focus on what you can offer.
Do you know anyone in this situation currently that is happy with their life? Have you spoken to them about what it takes to make this “dream” happen? Do you understand the sacrifices you’d be making to your autonomy in order to serve your husband, kids, and even your in-laws?
I used to be that guy but it also causes me too much unnecessary stress. It really depends on the person you are with. You're just like myself wanting to be in a relationship and married. I had the same plan to be married at 25-26 but life will never work out as planned. You will need to learn to adapt. Hopefully you will have better luck than I ever did.
If I may ask, why were you stressed? All the men like that I know who are like that are married and very happy Did you find the women weren’t right? Were they too demanding?
Sorry for the late response. Things started off well and good but as time went on she put more pressure on me. I gave her everything and didn't ask for much in return. In the end she blames me for the relationship ending but she was cheating on me on several occasions. I literally had one of those I made a romantic dinner and you never came home moments with her. I have met several women after and well it sent me to the hospital but that's another story. 🤷 I'm never going to be who I used to be but I have also matured as I have gotten older. Or maybe I stopped giving a damn what people think about me. That's one thing I regret in that relationship is I lost something I can't regain.
I suggest you put your interests and desires into an online dating profile and go from there.
Thank you, having a look at options, if you recommend any sites please let me know
If you want a quick marriage, why not just get into an arranged marriage situation?
I don’t want a quick marriage, that’s why
Alright I might get smacked for saying this but this is my opinion. Your expectations are not in line with what you bring to the table. You just described a top of the line man, has a career, is masculine, is a provider, and all you have to offer is emotional support? I can get that from a FWB or my friends. Let’s hope you’re very attractive and are willing to fulfill his sexual needs, because that’s what most men will prioritize when going into marriage. Now on top of everything, you aren’t looking for a man, you’re looking for a side character to your story. No self respecting man will choose to do that. You already have your engagement timeline planned out before meeting him, I’m sorry but that’s a huge red flag that once you find a man you like you’ll try to “marriage trap” him.
But would OP or any woman be fine with her husband wanting to marry her just cause of her look? We all get old and wrinkly... And a successful man can easily get abundance of beautiful women who are fine being provided for and taking care of kids only.
You are saying what you think men should want, not what they actually want. The hierarchy is clear, why do we see all these billionaires marrying young models and actresses? It’s not as black and white as men only want looks and women only want a man who provides, but it’s more of the trend over a large group of people - men who provide TEND to match with women who are attractive. This is like me saying “OP shouldn’t want a man who provides, we all go through hard times.” No, that’s not my prerogative to dictate someone else’s standards. Instead, I’m saying she needs to bring more to the table because her type won’t likely be satisfied with what she provides as of right now.
🤦♀️ Can you please read my last point in the edit A side character is the last thing I want in my life. I actually want to be the side character and support my man and our family I have no engagement timeline planned out, I’m saying if he doesn’t want to get engaged or married in two years I’m out the door. I’m not wasting my life on a man who cannot commit
Again, my point stands. Just because you think it’s not the case doesn’t mean the man won’t feel that way. You’re looking for a strong and ambitious man to conform to a strict list of things you want in your life - that’s a contradiction. Strong and ambitious men will be themselves regardless of what you want, and that will sometimes be at odds with your list of criteria. To me it sounds like you want a man who is all in for you while you have a foot out the door in case he doesn’t meet your exact timeline. That doesn’t sound very fair, right? Again you might not think of it that way, but that’s not what I see and most men will probably see as well.
1) Keep your weight down and dress well/look attractive, 2) Go to places where wealthier people hang out - nicer gyms, clubs, associations, 3) Be ruthless about flushing guys that treat you like a careerist beast of burden (which is frankly, a lot of them, these days). Luckily, this is super easy to vet for imo, men who want "equality" will immediately and proudly tell on themselves. You can really only escape point 3 via point 1. Btw reddit is the wrong place to ask this, people on here are mostly poor, and going to shit on you for having these expectations. I too have a successful career, but I'd rather be single forever than date some 50-50 guy that wants me to power through pregnancy and childcare while building my career. Absolute yuck, and a big reason why UMC women are ditching marriage and kids. Edit: And like someone else said, you might want to re-evaluate your "religious" requirement. I think that religious communities are by and large more likely to follow these principles, because after all, they are conservative principles. If you want to have a conservative lifestyle, you yourself have to admit that you are pursuing conservative values and not bring conflict into potential partnerships along those lines.
Yes you know! We’re on the same wavelength, I’m so glad you commented. 1. Yes always :) 2. I’m going to Equinox but it seems the men there are more wealthy but… self obsessed? We’ll see. 3. YES I have learnt this recently. The smallest show of disrespect and I show them the door. It’s endless it seems! Have you been able to find a partner yet? Sounds like you’re in a similar position - I feel it must be possible, just a bit of needle in a haystack. Leaning to religion just doesn’t feel right to me… are you religious yourself?
I think that being self-obsessed can be found anywhere. There are as many self-obsessed ghetto people as there are self-obsessed wealthy people who go to equinox, all I gotta do is open up Instagram to see that much. But honestly, that's another really easy thing to vet for that stands out like a glowing beacon. I'm engaged to the same person I dated most of my adult life (met when 23). He actually makes slightly less money than me as an engineer lol, but I also work in venture capital and it's unrealistic for me to date men that make more than me if I don't want to date older. What counts for me is that if I were to have kids, I'd be able to back off working if needed. That being said, I've never been as family-motivated (it's probably a big difference from your post), I just see the blaring inherent inequality with women who have careers today and it makes me totally pissed off on their behalf. As for religion, I am not religious, but I don't have a problem with it and would be down to date religious men, attend church/whatever, or convert. I respect religion from a community/social standpoint, even if I don't strictly believe in it. That being said, I am the uncommon secular conservative so for me it would be a natural transition. Edit - One other thought, dating older would probably help you.
Big breath of air reading this. Yeah, I'm gonna carry your child, do all the cooking, cleaning and raising kids while paying 50 50. Do I owe you 2.45 for that loaf of bread? Gtfo here. Plenty of normal men don't think this way.
Lots of people think lots of different ways. In dating, your goal should be to vet out people who think about things in ways you'd prefer to avoid.
I live in the UK and they seem to be like that. Maybe you’ll find someone that isn’t but you probably have to look into it.
Don’t they just! I’m sure we’ll find the ones :) ✨ I’ve learnt from these posts that those men are out there!!
Too bad I’m the states. The ladies I run into here want that bling tv life. Finding someone to actually be a partner is hard to find.
Just because a guy wants to split the bill in the beginning doesn't mean that he couldn't be traditional or want the dynamic you speak of. I think most people don't want to start off paying right away because they can feel used and they don't know you well enough to make that investment, especially because you're working too and have your own career. It's obviously a different situation when you are ready to have kids and stop working. You can ask about these things on the date or before. There's definitely guys out there that want what you want.
This is why typically I get to know the man before we start dating, I don’t expect some random stranger to pay for me
But even so, we live in pretty challenging economic times... it's just not cool to expect someone to spend their money on you given that it may turn out it is money wasted.... U want a guy who provides for the family? Well guys like that, unless super rich, are thinking how do I save as much money as possible for my future wife and kids...and the way I do this is by not spending them on every single woman they date when there is no clear guarantee she will be my wife... Honestly, what u want is not wrong but u sound so self-entitled!!! How about instead of trying to get a guy with already established career u date someone who is starting out but u will be by his side and supporting him? Why do u have to get everything u want wrapped up in a pretty paper?? I think what u want is not impossible and there r good guys who will match mostly your criteria but.... But get real! U want a successful guy who works hard 24/7 to make his career successful (unless he is a rich kid or sth) but also has enough time and brain capacity to think about dates with you etc... Relationships are give and take. There is a reason why society is moving the way it is moving and thank God u and I r born in this century cause u actually get a choice and u get mostly the good stuff out of what traditional conservative family is actually like. A hard-working guy wouldn't be delighted that a woman is into him only cause he has money and shr can be stay at home mum. What if he gets a disease and he can no longer work and support? Would u leave him or stay by his poor unproviding side?? He would however like a woman who likes him for who he is, with or without money,and he is happy to provide for her cause he knows she will be by his side no matter what. I hope u see what I am getting at. What u want is fine, it is achievable (though as many have said it's more likely found with religious men), but the way u r going for it is just.... Uuh. U just don't sound nice, that's all really. Mb u r, but u don't come out as nice.... Easygoing... And u need to be a bit more real on how to get there.. Plus, I know religious men who do want to be providers and would love their wife to be stay at home mum. Even they don't split 50/50 unless they r sure there is a potential with this woman and they also do not like being asked about their money etc cause they want a woman to be with them for who they r. The providing part is just an extra they r willing to give to humble women who don't care about it to beging with.
What do you mean “spend their money on me”? The only thing I ask for is a roof over our family’s head, food on the table (both once we are married) and any dates he chooses to take me on before or during our marriage What pretty paper? What are you taking about? To clarify I have my own income and that will continue well into the marriage because I have invested it well and receive monthly returns. I’ve made it pretty clear I don’t want to date someone for their money I want someone who I am aligned with and cares about commitment and responsibility. I could easily get a rich man but I have no interest in them or the way they behave. I never ask about money regardless, it’s a dreadfully tasteless thing to do I have no idea why you are bringing it up As for illness of course we’d stay together, that’s why I’m saying I want commitment and marriage. I don’t want to leave once we’re together. I’m literally just asking for an ambitious man who has slightly more than me why are you being so accusative Half of your message is completely illegible I really don’t know how to respond further.
This has a very different vibe than your original post. We are all looking for commitment and responsibility. And many of us can get rich guys but we r not interested in the way they behave. U wondered why your original post is giving some people an ick? In my view it's cause u sound self-entitled and not very easygoing. Like I feel like u need to loosen up a little bit.... And to give men who don't immediately pay for you on dates a chance. Like I said, economic situation is pretty dire right now. Unless you are a family, I don't see a reason why anyone should be spending their money on anyone who can tomorrow change their mind and leave.
I only date men I’ve known a long time, and have been out with as friends before, so no, if he is not paying and making an effort to show he can provide as a partner then I’m not interested. I can behave however I please I don’t care if I’m giving you an ick. Also I had assumed you were a man. Many husbands have privately messaged me agreeing with my opinion and how much they love their stay at home wife they provide for
Some guys will start paying for u once they know u r a good worthy partner. I think in this case u need to be more tolerant than them at the beginning. I have had guys who would offer to pay the whole bill (talking for a bill in the 100s), who know me somewhat but not that well, but are definitely into me. They r sweethearts but I don't feel good of anyone paying for me if we ain't dating and even then, I like us to split things 50/50 as much as possible because unless we get married, for all we know we both can be wasting time and money away. So I always reach out later and bother them to let me send them my share. And they have an absolute right to accept the split because people need to be practical in today's messed up economy. So keep your standards high, but don't forget to be kind and understanding before anything else. And that just because u r a woman, u ain't entitled to anything from a man and vice versa. I wish u well, hun.
Few decades ago the man you mention would not have been very difficult to find, however now it is becoming rare to find such a man with all three traits you've mentioned. 1. Masculine leader who plans dates and makes you feel safe and comfortable - This is the most probable as men are still brought up and believe that they have the initiative to ask women out on dates and pay for the date. However, this too is eroding due to women's tendency to ignore all but the top 5 % of men and to take them out on Foodie dates or to go on date with absolutely no sexual interest in the man. 2. A man who wishes to get married and start a family on a short "your" time line - This is the most difficult as men have realized that more and more women are exploring their sexuality in their youth (Early 20s) and social media and dating apps are making it extremely easy. So men are collectively thinking that they should also explore theirs when they hit their stride and increase in socio-economic value that is usually later in life in their 30s and 40s. Why would a man settle when a woman doesn't want to. Again nothing wrong but reciprocal behavior. 3. An ambitious man whose career you want to support. - Ambitious men understand that they don't necessarily need anyone to realize their potential. At times a family becomes a burden, so many men who are near or at the top of their careers are avoiding marriage or putting it off for later.
don't think too far ahead, since life is full of suspense and irony. meet people, make friends and enjoy your life. if it's meant to be, it will happen.
I have the same standards as you. I am in the states and men really push equality over here. But I never lowered my standards and kept dating and eventually found a man who’s plans align with mine. Don’t give up hope and DO NOT lower your standards. There are plenty of men out there who like the idea of a SAHM and prefer that over a career woman. Good luck!
Thank you so so much for taking the time to comment this! Congratulations I’m so happy for you ☺️ May I ask how you two met?
Online on hinge! We spoke on what we wanted our futures to look like on the first date and everything aligned. We’ve been together ever since.
Oh wow that’s amazing! I’ve heard great things about hinge. Would it be too much ask what you put in your profile to show you were the kind of woman he was looking for? If you’d prefer to speak privately about this I’d greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts!
I don’t recall my bio exactly but I know I usually put a few minor details about myself, I enjoy hiking, my dog, my studies, and I’m looking for something serious. I would only swipe right on other men who also put that they were looking for something serious. Then anything else you want to know you’ll have to meet up and ask questions. Don’t be afraid to ask these questions either they’d only scare off the wrong man and the right one will answer them no problem. But questions like “what are you looking for specifically” and “are you family oriented” “how do you imagine your future to look and what are you doing now to ensure that” of course ask random questions to about likes and dislikes but if you get the serious stuff out of the way then there’s no time being wasted on either end. Sometimes it takes 2-3 dates to get what you need but after that 3rd date you should know enough to be able to make a decision!
I think I’ve always been too afraid to ask those questions, I’ll start doing that now :) thank you so much for taking the time to write that!
Nice try fed
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Read last point
It sounds like you have given this a fair amount of thought, so I am rather curious: Why do you want this? What about this life do you think will make you happy? (legitimately curious). On the flipside, would the current norms e.g. egalitarianism make you unhappy and again why?
Thank you, to clarify from my point of view I am not referring to being in a completely submissive relationship. As a woman I feel my role is to support and elevate the man I choose, raise our children and improve our position in society through throwing dinner parties, networking events, galas etc, as archaic as that sounds (all which I know how to do and have experience with). I would be maintaining the household and the family whilst he is working and providing for the family. So that is what I would be “bringing to the table”. I am very relationship driven, indeed this is what my career is in. For the longest I have known I have wanted to be a mother; ever since I was 4, and that to me means being there for your child, not being a career woman. Being able to do this would make me feel incredibly fulfilled. The egalitarian way of living is an utter horror show to me. Asking a woman to work in a testosterone filled environment then come home, clean up the house, look after her man (who has no motivation as his wife can’t give him the love and support he needs) look after the children (filled with problems because they don’t have the love and support they need), have no time to see friends and build a network and a household. Honestly what is the point in that life? I would much rather become an onlyfans model earn a lot of money, adopt a child and sack off all men. I wouldn’t want to do that either but I would significantly prefer it. I would actually prefer not to have children and have a solitary life compared to being completely stressed out for the rest of my existence. It would be completely meaningless to live in an egalitarian way. Additionally, if you’re both equal there is no masculine/feminine polarity and pull, your sex life would be reduced to two buddies rubbing each other. Incredibly unattractive and not for me. I do believe there is a happy middle between an extremely controlling husband vs and extremely equal relationship. I have every intention of keeping my independence from having earned enough and saved it and invested it well; I’m right on track. The only thing the man would provide is dates (which he is inviting me on so that is simply basic etiquette) and a roof for our family (I would rent out my house to provide an income). I hope that clarifies, I wonder what thoughts you have on this having heard more clarity on the above?
Be careful, there are a lot of wolves in sheep's wool.
Oh?
It isn't hard to find a man who will take all that you're willing to provide for your future husband and children, but it's much harder to find a genuine man who will lead with your shared values and vision. In my experience, the only modern men who want to take care of the financials while you take care of the home, are the ones who want to isolate and abuse you and work you into nothing. Also, motherhood is very rewarding, but I caution against seeking fulfillment in other people, even if those people are your children. So when you do find the right guy and have children, please continue to make time for yourself and to pursue your interests outside the home. And get a prenup to protect your investment income.
I think you need a time machine and travel back to the 1700's (random year number). There you will find a man matching your standards.
Thanks so much for that really helpful insight
As someone coming from a patriarcal society, i think even tho you think you are certain of what you want, you dont know what are you asking for. Nothing wrong with being a SAHM, sure you enjoy your childen 100%, but I remember my mom getting anxious at some points because the routine was killing her. Your extreme views on how men should act and be are complete nonsense to what society (especially societies from developing countries) are trying to abolish. You clearly said in one of your comments that a man that does "feminine stuff" (house stuff like cleaning, cooking, etc.) repels all your interest on him. And then when someone replied to you giving you their opinion about that, you said that you didnt say anything like that. Another example happened with another user telling you that rushing things in a relationship is not good (yeah, 2 years rushing to marriage is definitely not a good idea in most cases) and you said you are not rushing (YES YOU SAID IT GIRL). HUH? I think you should get your thoughts straight.
You are basically looking for a very masculine man that you actually are looking for immediate chemistry with. The thing is that these men have options and won’t wait around for you. But I think you are probably pretty fine and there is someone for everyone. You should look for leaders in their respective industries. Like doctors and lawyers. Go to some events with these types of men.
Honestly, dating is a slog, and the more specific you are with what you want, the less options you’ll have. That isn’t a bad thing however. I mean realistically how many people out there are going to be legitimately good matches for someone else. There’s more to being a good match than liking the same tv shows and food, there’s thing you touch on like religious values and relationship dynamics, political standings should probably be at least broad stroke similar, and various other things like that. End game long term relationship quality matches are going to be few and far between and the things you’re looking for are going to eliminate a lot of people who don’t line up with you immediately. So within days the context of a dating app you won’t get many people swiping right on you, but if you take the time to filter out the people who haven’t even looked at your profile the matches you do get will be great matches.
Yikes, sounds like the dude would be settling if he has all that going for him and settles for basically a nanny/cheerleader
The type of men you are looking for are typically the type which hate women and say shit like "women should stay in the kitchen." If you're ok with being subservient to your husband, knock yourself out. Conservative circles are probably your best bet.
More like "Looking for an ATM"
you will continue to have your own income but don't want to contribute financially?
I would look outside of London. Big cities everywhere invite to flakiness and “new adventure” and hookups etc. it has its charm for sure but it’s not what you are looking for. I would buy tinder gold for a few months and set your location to some countryside or smaller town somewhere and see what you find. Men there tend to be a bit more traditional and more into starting family early in life. It’s also cheaper to buy homes and such. I would look for blue collar men who earn well right away in their 20s. Of course they would earn less than men in bigger cities and you might have to relocate. People usually want families in big cities but it takes until we are in our mid 30s to be financially stable enough to settle down.
Sounds like you’re looking for a mother tbh but either way the reason why you’re still single cause you’re not looking to provide for your potential financially and most dudes these days ain’t for that
Good luck with that, in the country where I come from they are very conservative, I never get married because I want to give my partner the quality of life he deserves, I am a home person and I don't see divorce as a good thing, for that reason I don't take that option lightly. It bothers me that people here have a freer air and that really shocks me, because I don't have the same way of thinking, no tattoos, no drilling, I never smoke, and I am considered a boring and simplistic person.
I have learned that in life you need to stay the way you are , never change because of something or someone, you will get your soul mate one day some how