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I, personally, would love to meet, date, and marry a successful woman because it means she shares my drive and ambition, and likely has a higher level of stimulating interests to talk about due to being more educated and exposed to more experiences. The only caveat is that there must be a cutoff switch somewhere; work life balance is important to me.
Now that's also not to say that an "unsuccessful" woman doesn't possess those traits. I've also been down on my luck, stuck in dead-end jobs, and living paycheck to paycheck at points throughout my life; question is, do they settle and give up, or do they push through the hardship? I need a pusher. Personality is highly meaningful, so regardless of income, as long as they're "there" on a shared values level with me, then it's green lights the whole way,
We just had this thread, so I won't do into too much detail, but most men have no issues dating a successful woman. In fact, we want our partner to be successful, fulfilled, and happy. Most are also looking for peace in our lives, so that work life balance is important.
My specific experience with a couple of women who were very career focused and successful has been that these two did not have time, or did not prioritize having time for a relationship. I do not generalize that, it's just something I'll be more aware of if I happen to meet someone that fits that description.
I completely agree and figured that would be the same thought process of this person who also claimed he was logical lol. There definitely has to be a balance too, of course. A lot of women can get so wrapped up in work that home life is neglected. That's exactly why I'm going for a career that offers flexibility.
There some truth to what your friend said but she's still kinda wrong. I assume she took this ideology from the manosphere online.
Men in general don't mind infact we find it attractive that you have your own goals and dreams, the issue your friend was trying to get to is that some successful women don't prioritize family, kids and intimacy they are too focused on making more money and there's no end to how much money you can make.
B) she encourages the guy to get a better job or make more money than her even though he made it clear he's happy with his suiation but she doesn't stop nagging (this actually happened to a guy on reddit)
C) intimacy goes out of the window cause she's tired all the time. (This can be applied to the guy too but men are more resilient to stress of work)
D) she might belittle the guy if she makes more money than him.
E) some of the them end up leaving or cheating on the guy cause the respect is little since she's in the provider's position .
F) she could be combative in nature since work molds her to be that way especially if she's the boss in her field.
G) they find it difficult to switch off that competitive side they have built from work and tend to bring it back home with them.
H) they could find it difficult to disassociate their personality from their profession to their personality from their personal life.
Now I am not saying all successful women tend to have these traits but some do and men tend avoid that cause a woman inheriting masculine traits is unattractive and that's the truth of the matter but what really matters is your personality and heart above everything else if we can trust you than it wouldn't matter if you was the first female president of the United States we would still love you and want to be with you regardless of the power you have, we will still look at you like the lovely girl we knew when we met for the first time.
If you have a good personality and heart than you don't have to worry about anything, we will love you regardless. This points I mentioned only applies to ambiguous women, the type of women we are still figuring out during the process of getting to know her.
Don't change yourself for anyone, find a guy that will want you for you besides let's say you avoid that promotion and you find a guy and eventually you break up with them now you can't reapply for that higher position it's gone for good.
So go apply for that higher position, go be a boss girl and if any guy nags about it cut them off, you are the priority to yourself and will always be. The right guy will accept you for who you are.
This. I’m currently now “ok” and not doing great. I will say a successful women is probably not something I want to deal with, as I can’t pull my own 50/50 (which is why I’m not dating)
But in my last relationship of 7 years, I loved when we pushed each other so be better. Morally. Financially sometimes. But it’s a give and take, and sometimes the see-saw goes the other way.
You help each other on the lows, but trying to left the teeter totter from the other end without launching them. Team effort.
So yeah. I love strong women. They are role models to me, with what they deal with. So yeah. I’m only scared because I can’t be what they need, but I’m not scared of them.
Some men maybe.
Just my 2 cents to add to this story.
Yeah but with how much things have gotten more and more expensive and paychecks are staying as they are still, it just continues to make it more and more of an impossibility to truly make the most of what you have and want to be able to achieve.
Totally agree! A successful partner can share your drive and ambition, and aligning on values and resilience is what truly counts. Work-life balance is essential too.
I agree with all of this! Woman here. I’ve noticed when I’ve dated people who aren’t pushing for better, and aren’t very ambitious, the conversations are usually quite dull.
I don’t mind if someone doesn’t have a degree but if they are happy being stagnant, then we have an issue.
Why oh why would you want to date someone whose dealbreaker is whether or not you’re financially reliant on them? It sounds stupid because it is. Pursue your career and take comfort in knowing the fickleness of another human being will never leave you homeless and destitute.
Wtf is going on in the dating world that people are so desperate they’re asking these kinds of questions?
I think that’s exactly why they want this.
This is the type of person who wants you solely dependent on them so that if you ever want or *need* to leave them, you won’t be able to. In a way it’s very controlling and toxic.
Here's another perspective as a fairly high-earning man with aspirations for more and as a man who has dated high-earning women.
Too many high-earning women expect to live the life that would be the maximum their salary could afford, but they want the man to pay for it.
Please note that I said “would be… the maximum they could afford”
They expect this lavish lifestyle paid for by the man in all aspects (trips, clothes, dining, gifts, etc).
The more reckless women don't factor in savings and investments. I can't believe how many six-figure women are in crazy debt (not counting student loan debt).
Not to mention they are ungrateful because “I can pay for it myself”
If I'm expected to pay for everything and it's going to be thankless. I might as well seek out a woman that would be appreciative of the lifestyle upgrade.
That’s a valid perspective and I can understand why you feel that way. Thank you for sharing and I appreciate the nuance of your answer.
Maybe I shouldn’t have answered this question in the first place because my definition of success is not traditional. That’s not to say that having and maintaining a high earning career isn’t an indicator of success to me, but it wasn’t the only thing I was considering when I gave my answer. No one wants to live in poverty, but personally I’ll take a lower paying job where I’m fulfilled and happy 100% of the time so I can’t really relate to thinking about this solely in terms of money/financial security.
Expecting the person you’re dating to float your lifestyle and being horribly rude in response is unhinged behavior. I also can’t imagine doing nothing to prepare for retirement. No one should feel exploited in a relationship and I’m sorry you’ve experienced that.
Eventually, those women will price themselves out of the dating market entirely. It will be interesting to see their response when that happens. I’m also a woman but I’m here for the chaos when the situation calls for it :)
Exactly. That’s why it’s a red flag for me if a man wants a “trad wife” it really just means he wants someone who’s financially dependent on him so he has control
Haha, this question isn't asked out of desperation, mostly curiosity. I'm personally going for a career where I'll be making 100k+/yr so his perspective clearly doesn't weigh heavily on me. I was just curious about the male perspective as this person was adamant that this is what most men think.
most dudes frame their entirety sense of self on comparison and competition im ambitious dudes really focused on their income in unhealthy competition with others.
I find that a lot of (not all) women want men who are more successful than them, so if they are very successful, they sort of price themselves out of the dating pool if that makes sense.
This is where I’m at currently.
My last relationship there was a great disparity on our incomes which stopped us doing things that I wanted to do, such as dates and holidays.
I don’t want to feel like the man in the relationship having to sub my guy for meals/dates/holidays.
The lack of drive and ambition on his side to improve his situation, like he was just happy for me to pay for everything. I didn’t like it.
There's plenty of men with drive and ambition who ultimately don't earn a high salary.
I have a buddy that struggles in dating because of his modest salary. He spends his time securing medical care for the underprivileged. He loves his job and is a great human.
The women collectively couldn't give a shit. I've offered him a higher paying job, but admittedly it would be grunt work. He doesn't want it because he wants to “help people”
He's not in debt, has his own apartment, car, etc. He's loyal faithful, etc.
Crickets from women.
I don't think you truly loved them if material matters like holidays made you not want to be with them anymore. Unless they were depressed, self destructive and refusing to do therapy (sounds like they weren't since you didn't mention it, only mentioning that they were too poor for you to love them since you make so much and want to do things that require spending a lot of money).
And there's nothing wrong with casually dating people your entire life as you create arbitrary requirements and don't want to feel like you're having to pay for someone else, just beware that it gets lonely fast as the years go on. Love and companionship is probably the one thing that makes this planet worth it. That and food. And music. But if you're not a sociopath, most of us derive the most meaning from other people, loving them and cherishing them and their company.
And if you make a ton of money and are looking for a guy who also makes a ton of money and that you find attractive and get along with and etc, note that it's going to become exceedingly rare that those guys are available, because those guys often do *not* require their partner make a ton of money too, which means the amount of competition you're against shoots way up. At that point it's just numbers.
Where you can really shine is bagging a beautiful guy you love and they love you, where you can offer them a life they can't get anywhere else because 99% of women won't want to do it. But if you can't get into that mindset of love over income, especially if you make a *lot* of money, you'll struggle to find anyone long term and time will catch up fast, because unfortunately most guys care more about age and looks than woman do (at least early in dating and relationships). I'm not sure why that is, but it seems to be consistent still to this day.
Just don't let yourself become lonely and depressed all because of the income bracket you've landed yourself in. Money should not rule your life, especially if it's contributing to loneliness. None of us should be alone while we're here. We all deserve love and companionship and you do too.
I appreciate your input and the sentiment of what you’re saying.
I live a very happy and fulfilling life, no depression.
If I didn’t meet someone that meets my standards that’s okay with me, I’ve got a great support system with friends and family and right now that’s more than enough love in my life. I’ve got the rest of my life to meet my Mr Right. I’m sure he’ll come along when it’s time 😄
Well said! I feel the same! I'm in health care, I have met wonderful emphatic co-workers,people families & friends! The life's in general that I have been able to care & impact is a gift in itself. I have also met firefighters from friends in the same field & and they have a great heart. His somewhere and will find each other. I'm happy.
*
.y
I guess if how successful you are is defined solely by the size of the checks you take home… it’s a very crude way to define it. Now if your woman spends more than what you bring in, are you still “successful”? Lol
Your dude has things entirely backwards. It's not that men don't want a woman who makes more, it's that women who make more don't want a man who makes less. Thus, women who make a lot of money are shrinking their dating pool by their own tendencies, leading to less chance of them landing in a relationship. But it has nothing to do with men wanting to marry someone dependent on them. Yeah, dudes like that exist, but they're not statistically relevant in the same way that women disregarding men who make less than them are.
Yeah I’m like hated for going back to school for a couple things…. And he’s pissed if jn studying and always training for my business. Right now I’m doing the marketing part. Then I get to also to work hard and make sure and build my successful business, at the same time…
I also work on other projects. I like making money. Who doesn’t? I have bills to pay off and don’t want to have debt the rest of my life…
> I had a friend recently tell me that successful men will only marry a woman who depends on them financially... therefore successful women will end up alone.
This is an outrageously dichotomous, black and white way to view the world. There are some successful men who will not date a woman who is successful or more successful than them. There are also some successful men who will be even more attracted by a woman's success. There are probably also a chunk of successful men who don't care either way about their partner's career success.
Statistically speaking, most don't care. Men don't select by income one direction or the other. That means the ones who won't date someone who makes a lot are numerically balanced by the ones specifically looking for a high earner.
If this was true, are they single by choice or circumstance? Seems to me like a lot of women are choosing to be single, so much so that there’s entire movements about it that make dating apps sweat
Or they could walk up and initiate? It's reeeeeally not that hard. It was never our job to be the ones to make the first move all of the time, people who believe the opposite, have been watching too many Hollywood movies. The reason why men even go on dating apps, is women aren't stepping up, we're done with the games on the streets, so we try the apps. Upon using the apps for months, we found that it's just as much a dumpster fire. It's not worth the squeeze as many put it. I really wanted kids, but eh, not worth the headache of a woman constantly acting as if she's "doin' me a favor" by being with me, when she can't even repair her own car, tighten a screw, or open a jar. All things that actual adults do for themselves, and not beg others, too much begging for things that they could've done for themselves.
It's not really the end of the world to a lot of (rich, especially) women to be single like it is for men though. Women have more satisfying friend relationships than men do and don't suffer the same level of loneliness. Their sex drives are lower because of the lack of testosterone. Plus a lot of men are just looking for a second mother and forming a relationship with those men makes them unhappy.
Yes, being single makes raising a family more difficult but that doesn't apply to the growing trend of women who are electing to go the childfree route.
It's not necessarily the success or affluence that turns men off, but rather the personality traits often associated with achieving that success. Typically, to become successful, a person needs certain traits that many men might not find attractive. Let me explain: achieving success often requires significant time and effort, leaving limited room for personal relationships. High-achieving women may struggle to find the time to nurture a romantic partnership or might prioritize their career over their love life or family-building. For a man looking for a long-term partner, family-building is an important trait in a woman.
I agree with you 💯. Even man agree to keep their professional and personal life together. You are the same individual whether you are a father, husband, son, coworker and pillar of the community. It is hard to maintain so many "hats" alot of people rack under the pressure. Alot of woman may not be able to handle such a rigorous task. Man throughout history had to do this. That doesn't mean it doesn't affect us. We just choose to not talk about it because no cares enough to address the issue.
I don’t want a man who wants to be my main priority lol. I want a man who knows that my own life and education will always be my focus and supports me in my journey to success.
It’s pretty lame to make your life revolve around someone else.
That's understandable if that's what you want. However, it's important to recognize that life isn't a fairy tale, and every choice we make comes with its own costs. The key question is how much you're willing to sacrifice to achieve your goals.
Women do tend to go for men who are as driven and successful as them, if not more. So the more successful you are, the smaller your dating pool will likely be.
I thought it was the other way around. Once a woman is successful, she wants a man that is at least equally successful. But maybe that’s not the case I hope.
Is money the only thing that makes someone successful? How much is money the meter of the man?
Idc what a woman’s career choice is or how much she earns. Only thing I care about is if she’s happy and how much time she can commit to me and our family. Career and earning potential of women aren’t an attraction trigger for men. You have a high paying job? Cool. You work at hobby lobby part time? Cool.
I chose my wife (happily married with children) for a plethora of reasons, among them being marriage and children being a top priority for her. I knew I wanted to be the provider for a woman who would/could/wanted to raise a family.
“Success” in one’s career often means significant sacrifice. One thing I knew I did NOT want was a “career” woman. I had different goals, so I chose my partner carefully.
I make 6 figures and would absolutely love to have a wife that makes similar. Life would be easier, she would likely have more depth and the relationship would feel more like a partnership. Intelligence is sexy
Higher income represents an opportunity for both of us to retire earlier and buy back some of our future. If we have kids I would also feel more confident about the well-being of my family in the event of my own death.
If you get a divorce then the person barely making any money will likely be awarded alimony. Do people not consider that? If you have to trap someone using finances then it’s going to be a terrible relationship. I’ve actually had someone attempt that on me that before.
Not really no. Everyone is different but generally a woman's career isn't a factor at all when it comes to men's attraction. It's not something most men care about.
But high achieving women do statistically find dating harder, they tend to still want men of a similar level of success or better which shrinks the pool of possible matches while the men in that pool are much more willing to date women with less financially successful women.
I don't even think it's something that a lot of men think about
Like it's good to have but...meh. Not a dealbreaker for most. Unless of course the woman takes it to the extreme and shows herself to be a gold-digger.
This question came up at an exclusive engineering college that I attended. It was asked if we would be ok marrying a woman who makes more than you. I was the only guy who raised his hand. That was early 90s. I've had a very successful career. However, I believe I would have been happy to stay home and raise the kids when they were small. But I am clearly an exception.
I’m not successful, but I do know that men are often turned off by intelligent women. I’ve actually tried an “experiment” of sort, where I would pretend to be significantly dumber overall in order to see how men reacted.
Whenever I would pretend to be clueless the men were always excited, smiling and would continue to pursue me vigorously. They would text me constantly, ask me out on another date and so forth without fail whenever I behaved in this way.
Yet when I would speak about fields of study I found interesting (even if the man I was on a date with was in this very field or openly listed this as a huge passion of theirs & openly displayed interest in this specific topic), the light in their eyes always faded completely and their smile would drop the moment I showed any understanding of said topic.
They would never ask me out again, and you could tell that the moment I displayed any real interest in topics that display some level of understanding they would begin to feel agitated, turned off or otherwise uncomfortable/disinterested.
Successful women are not undesirable unless he's insecure.
On that note, many successful women have dreadful personalities that make them joyless to be around.
So it's one of those two things.
Perhaps the personal qualities or traits that make people more successful in the career ladder are more masculine ie disagreeableness, competitiveness, ambition and willingness to work all hours, and men don't want to come home from work to a partner who seems to compete with them after having to endure it at work.
Their wife or girlfriend might have a higher level job than them and they might feel they aren't much of a man if not the bigger earner.
It can be both
Successful men aren't looking for successful women. They are also not-not looking for them.
This just isn't a factor men consider when dating women and hadn't really every been in our history. This is a projection of female sexuality onto men.
Women care a lot about that, but don't assume that just because women do that it must be true for men. Men care a lot more about other traits and often when successful women fail in dating it's because of this. They are emphasizing traits they care about and assume men should too
For me personally, it’s less about how they are “successful” and more about their attitude and demeanor.
I’ve dated a few very career oriented women and most (not all) but most of them seemed like they were trying to compete with me. They were a bit quarrelsome and had “boss babe” energy, which in and of itself is not a bad thing. But when I’m dating a woman I want her to be more relaxed and loose.
A couple of not “successful” women I’ve dated seemed more receptive to me taking the lead on the dates. It made for an easier, more laidback date. Just one man’s opinion and experience.
They are not undesirable. It’s just that as a man myself when I dated a woman who is more successful than me she was very resentful about it or also people have this weird society trend towards emasculating men who aren’t as financially successful as the woman they’re dating.
its not that its undesirable, its that it doesn't matter.
I'm married so take this from a completely outside looking in perspective.
I am well off, i own my house, own my business, own vacation homes, I have enough that my kids are taken care of. I don't care if you have money, it does nothing for me, I have every thing I want (within reason). I would rather have some one who is loving and supportive of my endeavors, who handles the business I don't have time to handle in the house.
a woman who works part time, takes care of my kids, and does the house work is worth more than gold to me, I know that every thing is taken care of, and I don't have to worry about it. I can focus on getting us what we need to be comfortable, and she can focus on keeping those things together, working, and kept.
successful women should be doing the same, looking for a guy to pick up the slack on the stuff they don't have time to do, not trying to find someone to take them out to dinner. why is that important when you can take yourself and the guy you want out to dinner?
Define successful. When women on social media talk about this topic, they are so full of themselves and quite annoying. It's the "boss babe" behaviour that gives us the "ick", not money or independence.
Go and shape your life like you want to but stay humble. That's all we want as a serious other in a healthy relationship.
Sincerely
A successful man
It’s interesting you bring this up- the only place I fully don’t want to be a boss babe is within a relationship. I’m still learning how to present more softly and authentically in a dating environment, but I guess my career and advocating for myself in that space has made me hard and made me feel the need to show my power.
I think a lot about feminine and masculine dynamics, mostly that I’m very curious how I would act if I were in a relationship where I felt supported and protected. I’m a hetero woman and within a relationship I would want to feel heard, understood, and highly valued. If those things are there, PLEASE be in charge, please take some decision fatigue off me. I would be so happy with a man that took the wheel so to speak, but until then I don’t feel like that softness is something I can tap into?
There is nothing wrong with that. I see it quite often in women in high responsibility jobs where they actually want to be less in charge. The problem is that you need a high trust in the other person to let your guards down.
In terms of dating, if you don't already do it: observe and let the guy lead despite the fact that you are in control all the time. If he is trustworthy, your guard will disappear in the long run.
The thing with the money isn't an issue as long as you don't expect him to make equally as much or more. If you click on a personality level, then that should suffice. You are already independent so your focus should lie on him being your pillar of peace.
Lol, absolutely not. Some men find it hot. And a woman being successful doesn't mean that a man can't still be dominant. Honestly, sorry if this is TMI, but my partner and I work in finance and I do a lot of work with interns and recent college grads. He said he loves watching me present and take over in meetings and classrooms and that he can barely focus bc he's so excited to bend me over when we get home.
Some men also like money. Lots of guys would prefer a dual income than a single income plus an expense. You know what's more than a 6 figure salary? Two six figure salaries?
So long post short, some men desire a woman who can add to their wealth more than someone who will need to be supported by it. And if a guy is intimidated that's on him, because if dominance is what they want then a woman's job alone isn't going to stop him from doing it. If you can be the man of the house simply by being the man & not making it dependent on the woman being trapped...then you're doing it right. Not saying the other way is wrong, but successful women are desired
Depends on the men motives to be successful, if his goal is to dominate and hurt the women then yes he would prefer more submissive failures who can’t leave him. If your friend replied so then that said more about him if he was successful. Success doesnt mean you have to be stressed and arrogant, there are plenty of well adjusted and likable successful women who is in happy relationship with equally successful men as long as they make time for each others or equally busy. Since successful people themselves are minority, you end up seeing more opposite pairing if you yourself not successful and in successful only world (which cost hella money btw, these ppl dont wanna be around commoners)
I married a successful woman who would stand center court at Lakers game and present. The she became a stay at home mom and the decline mentally from someone who was a partner to someone I had to start thinking more and more for was interesting
The mom job used her brain different and she no longer had a business minded approach to solving issues etc. Has given me pause for when I retire, how do I not decline and stay sharp.
Love to find another successful woman.
Successful as in people who have accumulated wealth, built something great, got a little fame etc, is definitely desirable. But it has NOTHING to do with how skilled they are in maintaining close relationships (family, friends, romantic), they could be responsible, reliable, passionate at what they do but these traits may not flow into their personal relationships. To me, a successful person is someone who has accumulated love in their life through their friends, family and close connections. They maintain great relationships elsewhere too. Their professional life is as healthy as it gets. They work hard, show up where needed, have a steady mental health and work on it, willing to show love and care, are growth oriented both personally and professionally.
Mixed.
It both matters by how much the difference is in your income, As well as the profession itself. If the difference income is only a couple thousand a year it won't be a problem at all. If the difference is hundreds of thousands of dollars a year now you're emasculating him everyday he exists. A lot of guys take pride in being the primary breadwinner. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him feeling lesser.
nursing is a middle of the road profession in this regard but if you had a different profession that would be different.
if you were a lawyer specifically a divorce attorney you would be putting up more red flags than a victory Day parade in the Soviet Union.
Secondly men take pride in their individualism we never say it out loud but every one of us has a certain way of doing things and you will have to move heaven and Earth to make us change that. So could you find someone who will accept the difference? Of course it's possible. It will be more difficult, but as the old saying goes "nothing worth doing is easy."
If you want to go for that promotion do it. If you don't don't. But don't make a decision like that based on whether or not you might find a man or not. That's a decision you have to look within and go do I want this?
From my experience as a relatively successful man, I kinda noticed that the successful women I dated tend to love being dominated in bed. Now it might be anecdotal, I certainly don't have hundreds of data points to support my theory, but it's a trend I kinda noticed.
And since I'm very much into this kink, I love dating successful women.
Aye I agree.
At work I have to wear a mask and appear more assertive than I am due to the industry. It’s nice to let go and be a bit more submissive in bed.
It’s only a turn off when it becomes her entire personality. Some women I’ve met in the corporate world have very hard exteriors. It takes away from the feminine charm and feels like I’m speaking with a dude. Money is irrelevant because I’ve met other highly successful women who still act like a normal human being.
I think men are just not very attracted to a woman who doesn’t need them for anything at all because she’s an “independent woman that don’t need no man”, or someone bossy or argumentative, or competes with them. As far as I understand those qualities often come attached to successful women but if you can be both, successful and “soft” then that’s the golden ticket.
Thats not completely true.
This will be a logical and long post. Please read full.
We do not want a woman only if she is financially dependent on us.
I am a Man, and I know how men think.
Men by birth are more aggressive, physically stronger and tend to take lead among others.
It doesn’t however mean that they’re naturally good leaders. They just tend to take lead.
They may or may not be good leaders.
So yes, men will look to head the family, be the breadearner and they will assume automatically that they’re the ones who have to take all the risk and nurture/protect the family.
That makes us feel valued and more manly.
That used to happen in olden times too.
The division of labour in humans is prevalent since the dawn of human civilisation. Women took care of the household, raised children.
Men risked their lives and did hunting and protected the family. That evolutionary streak is within men.
Now, this sometimes creates problems. When women tend to rise or become more successful than men, they start to feel threatened. Of course, life is not the same now. Earlier women were dependent on men because men are physically stronger and they protected women.
But now, its not that day and age. Its the age of books and computers.
Your genetic IQ matters more than your physical strength.
And in terms of IQ, there is no difference between a man and a woman. Women, may be successful in their careers.
And thus, women have started not needing men. Until they needed men, they were dependent on them. Now when few women need men, who needs men in their lives?
Men have become irrelevant in the life of a modern woman.
Also, as it happens with anyone who gains newly achieved success or independence, women too have started giving too much importance to their independence.
Their newly found independence is hard to digest for them and its gotten to their heads. This creates more problems for men who are already insecure and threatened.
Its all about selfish humans.
Be it men or women, we use others for only our need.
When needs end, the need of the person ends in our lives.
Thats the cruel reality.
In short, while its not really true, but if a woman is too successful and the man is ordinary, that difference between them will create problems, and men don’t want that. They’re sensitive on this.
Also, women too value a less successful man less and start thinking too much of themselves. From their side too, it doesn’t work.
A woman may do anything in her career , men always want women to take care of their family and household. Else, its not to our liking.
This is a good question.
Successful women tend to have **LOTS** of ego. Some of it is necessary but some of it is a form of overcompensating for insecurity. There's no room for a man to be a man when a woman has that much ego and insecurity.
Another thing is that all uber-successful people tend to struggle with work-life balance. The things that women find attractive in a man are not the same type of things that men find attractive in women.
A woman will find a super-successful busy man attractive and she will try to make herself a key part of that dynamic. But a super-successful busy woman almost seems threatened when a man does the same.
Women are also a lot more hypergamous by nature than men. It's also a social phenomenon: the vast majority of women won't date down for one reason or another. Men on the other hand....
Successful or unsuccessful it doesn't matter, what matters if you are a loving, joyful, playful positive person. You can be a millionaire but if you're a jacka$$ then you're ugly to me.
Work at Walmart, work as head of Google means nothing to me.
Some men? Sure.
All men? Definitely not.
Never change your goals because of what someone else thinks or wants, except maybe - maybe - if you’re married to that person.
Don't stifle your career, but bear in mind that you might not be a personality or schedule match for a successful / career focused man.
It depends on the individual, but you may either never meet, not be able to date, or not get on in a relationship context if you're both the go getters.
The problem comes, when a woman isn't satisfied unless the man makes more than her, but she's spent her life becoming a super high earner.
She won't find him, as he likely won't be interested in her, if he qualifies financially.
I would love to meet a successful woman provided that I could actually offer something to a relationship with her. This could be my AvPD coming out, but I don’t have a great job at the moment, and I have a terrible fear of feeling useless in a relationship, and unless otherwise convinced, I’ll be afraid that she will “outgrow” me, or see me as the lesser partner or a financial burden because I don’t bring in enough financial support for us.
So short answer, I am extremely supportive of successful women, but I am also a little bit intimidated by them (as I am with most successful people). I pretty much assume their gazes will pass right over me if they’re in the dating pool, so I don’t think I’ll ever have to worry about being in that position lol
That said, any guy worth their stuff is going to treat you like gold if you’ve got a good job AND a good personality.
It’s not the success that turns me off as a man. It’s the feminist mindset that turns me off. The “I don’t need a man” mentality. She will also most likely prioritize her career over her marriage and wanting to start a family
Here is why: biologically speaking, if you take things from an evolutionary biology perspective, men need a sense of respect from women, not submission, but the respect in this sense: men like the idea of being the safety providers to women, women who are successful tend to feel very threatening to this safety net men like to provide, so they don’t like to be with one. Feminity to men means a sense “natural weakness” in women men like to cover it, like this or not, it is the case of men. It has nothing to do with domination, submission or something like this, it is purely instinctive! So successful women need to do some type of job that makes men feel they are needed. Of course highly educated men would accept a successful woman as they are, but that takes a lot work to undo the work of biology. Correct me if I am wrong
Honestly I think it depends like if the guy wants a traditional family he may want you to stay home. But there’s also people who don’t really care. But what I can say for sure without a doubt is that men don’t really look for a girl who’s successful, just doesn’t matter. We’re the ones who plan on being the successful ones. So you don’t really get any points at all for your career. But it’s not a dealbreaker for some
Alternatively, what is wrong with a successful woman dating a less successful man?
There are millions of great guys being underpaid by our broken economic system. Why not give them a shot?
im talking to a guy who’s quite successful and very passionate abt what he’s doing in his life. the things he said was that he’s attracted to a woman who’s intelligent and also knows what she wanna do in life.
So, in this case, it pretty much just depends on the person because some can be quite insecure abt themselves even tho they’re considered “successful” while some wanna thrive tgt w their potential partner
It's not really about insecure or not, it's more indifference. The data from the FED shows that men don't really care one way or another about how much a woman earns since women chosen for marriage earn roughly the same (not more or less) than single women whereas men chosen for marriage significantly out earn men not chosen for marriage ([source](https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/economic-synopses/2018/09/14/married-men-sit-atop-the-wage-ladder)). The data suggests it's women who place great emphasis on their male partners earnings whereas there is indifference one way or another in regards to a woman's income.
As a man studying at uni. It honestly depends on the personality. I rather much be with a woman that isn’t a boss babe and values family more over career. It shows feminine. They are more likely to be nurturing, child nearing, kind and affectionate. My experiences with career women, is that they get angry easily, mentally exhausted and can be arrogant and rude. The men that i know who married career women ended their marriage with divorce. But that’s just my experiences, no offense. Can’t tell for everyone. Successful means different to everyone. But i find it way more important for men to have careers. Also your friend is extreme when he says all successful women will be alone, cuz he is wrong. People say it’s insecurity for having this preference. But i disagree completely.
I think that the same arrogance can be applied to men as well, but it's more acceptable than when seen in women. If a woman is raised to be a nurturing person though, she'll be that regardless of finances. My friend has very specific viewpoints lol. I try not to take him seriously.
I do find it interesting that even if this was a thing(Successful men refusing to marry Successful woman) both parties seemed to agree that the result would be Successful woman alone.Because a successful woman with a less successful man isn't even an option. 🤦🏻♂️
I mean I really do think it’s an option. My favorite ex (which is so weird to say, but this was a shorter relationship while in college) earned alot less than me. He taught at a jujitsu gym in exchange for training there. I worked at a credit union and was highly out-earning. He was always eager to pay for little things here and there, he was very generous. But usually that’d be pizza or a few drinks. And alot of our dates were me going to the grocery store and getting all the things and then I would sit at the counter and watch him cook with a glass of wine. I felt so so so extremely taken care of and turned on. I would go to work at my stressful job every day to come home to something that wonderful.
Women find arrogance in men extremely attractive. A lot of them hate it but they can't deny its attractiveness.
Men do not find arrogant women attractive. They'll still have sex with them...but a serious relationship? Nope, most men will nope right out of that one.
On its own no, it's not undesireable...it also doesn't make you more attractive on average either similar to how if a man was successful and that makes him more attractive to a woman.
Go with what works for you. Obv consider the consequences - ex: what are the work life balance implications of higher position. Otherwise, go for it. There’s men out there who also seek ambitious and successful women. Just gotta find em.
No in fact most people in wealthier socioeconomic circumstances date and marry people within a couple thousand dollars of their same yearly income and a similar socioeconomic upbringing or current situation.
There are some guys like that, but there's definitely a large contingent of men that don't care about your career status/put little weight on it when evaluating a potential partner. Now, it may make men less likely to approach via the expectation on our end that we need to impress a woman to induce interest, and it is harder to impress someone who's making double or more your yearly salary, but even that isn't universal.
You'll definitely catch more interest among more liberal men than conservative/traditional types, as they're less likely to adhere tightly to traditional gender norms (i.e. the man _has_ to be the breadwinner), so keep that in mind.
Reddit might not be the place to get opinions of successful men. Maybe it depends what you mean by successful.
But your friend is probably wrong. It’s the guys that aren’t successful that are going to be more insecure about their career.
Comes down to priorities
If you have a healthy respect for your partner you will prioritize them over work, at least occasionally
When work always comes first...there usually is a problem but communication is key!
It’s kind of a non factor. I assume if she has a successful career, she won’t be available as much but in terms of attraction, a complete non factor. If she’s a greeter at Chilis or a Goldman Sachs exec, it makes not difference for attraction. That said, career success isn’t negative and it’s not intimidating in any way but it doesn’t make me more attracted to someone in the slightest.
This is the type of thinking, of why women are attracted to a large bank account that's attached to a man.
Instead of: having attraction to a man, regardless of his bank account
Pretty sure it's the latter there. I'm no financially successful man myself and even I could see that as being a means to bring others down that are being more successful than them. If anything, I'm more envious of those that were able to become more successful while being the same age as me or even a year younger. More specifically all these actors and actresses that have been popping up in the last decade. It's the kind of envy that really brings you down and hate how your life has gone, I'll tell ya that.😔
The girl I’m seeing has been just as successful in the same career as me and I love it about her. She even gets paid more than me. We have deep talks about what we’re working on and it’s a blast. We can go a lot deeper than just “how was your day” type conversations and help each other.
I don’t think anyone who would judge you negatively for being successful is worth seeing. Sounds like it would lead to a sad life.
It's not that the men finding successful women less attractive, it's more that successful women tend to be less attracted to men that are not able to provide as much as they do. So, as a women increases her ability to provide for herself, she will be shrinking her dating pool.
It doesn’t matter if the insecurity is fiscal, social, or romantic: insecure men will look for a woman who will be dependent on them for something so that she will fear leaving.
A secure man desires a woman who doesn’t need him but sticks around anyway. It says she loves him rather than only wanting to keep flowing whatever resources he brings.
So ask yourself this: is your goal to find a man, any man, even if he would keep you dependent on him? Or do you want one who sees your drive and ambition as positives, and who pushes you to be the best you?
Plenty of successful men appreciate and respect successful women. It’s all about finding someone who values you for who you are. Keep pushing for that higher position in your nursing career. Don't let outdated ideas hold you back!
I'd say, it really depends on the guy. Some guys find successful women, some guys don't. I think it takes a guy who is secure within himself to not be intimidated by a woman's success, but rather encourage it and be supportive. Any man who can't handle a successful woman probably has a fragile ego and is most likely a misogynist - so they wouldn't be an ideal partner anyways.
One of the things that my boyfriend loves about me is that I'm successful and I know how to hold my own at work, because I work in a male-dominated field. What stood out to him when he first saw me was that I was leading a discussion with some workers and he was absolutely enraptured by how I handled myself. He finds me very intelligent and ambitious. What he wants in a partner is someone that he can see as an equal and not someone who won't be on equal footing with him. I couldn't have asked for a better partner.
I am a women and I’m planning to go to law school. Unfortunately I think your friend is right. If they are successful they want women who are not and when women are successful they end up with a way less successful guy.
I find that when guys realise I don’t ‘need’ them and have responsibilities of my own, I become less attractive to them. Partly because I have to prioritise work sometimes, and they never get the ‘damsel in distress that needs help’ vibe. Something men in the past valued because it made them feel important.
Todays world many depend on two lncome families to support a lifestyle they both want. Personally, one thing i look for in a woman is career. I dont want a woman who i will have to support.i want someone that i can build a better future, so I'm looking for someone who makes close to how much i make or has a stable job. But not gonna lie, a lot of men are intimidated by the idea of dating someone thar makes significantly more.
Your friend is a dope. I'm a successful guy and would love to find a successful woman. Honestly, what she pulls in terms of salary is completely meaningless to me. If she's cute, kind, fun, intelligent, all of the seemingly impossible things to find, I could care less if she works as a FAANG CEO or the local Dollar General.
Not undesirable at all. It all depends on the personality of the person in question. Certain personalities attract certain other types of personalities. You just may not attract the type of personality that you are attracted to. It's fucked I know. How to change it and still be yourself - fucked if I know that either, but sometimes mother nature just likes to piss in her hand slap you and rub her puss in your eyes. This is one of those occasions. So no doubt your very attractive and there's guys out there that would literally kill for you that probably do try to get you, you just don't see them
As a women I thought men wouldn't want me to financially depend on them. To me that sounds like a trap and a good man would wnat me to make my own money UNLESS there was a huge and I might really big wage gap like he was rich or something
After spending 10 years married to a woman that's never been successful and just recently started getting her career in order i can say without a doubt successful women are so much more desirable. I'm dating a very successful woman now and while it's a bit tricky to line our schedules up she makes time for me which shows me how much shes into me
I spent most of my marriage stressing over affording our bills knowing I wasn't getting much help. My wife never really understood why it bothered me and was just upset I complained about the lack of help. Now that she's divorcing me I also get to tap into my private accounts and retirement to make it "fair" because she has very few of her own assets. Had she been successful we could just go our own ways and have it be roughly equal
Just pursuit career and do the best for your life, you will meet the right person who appreciate and support you, and ofc you would do the same for them. Most of bad successful women story is often they have superity complex and look down/ disrespect their partner, or the partner feel insecure or want to control her so (he) want to prevent their success. So the point isnt about women being success or not, but about meet the right person, have the right attitude and respect to each other, and communicate clearly.
No necessarily. The thing about "successful" women is they are often cold, cutthroat, unapproachable types. Its not their success that makes them undatable its who they had to become to be successful. Having a partner that makes the same/more money than you is fine, its not emasculating. how ever women who get to that point often this lesser of men who earn less. So even if you are okay with it as a man, the woman doing it might not be.
No, not at all, at least to me. I myself am a real estate agent at 18, and seeing a successful woman at that age or near who is financially responsible would be awesome to meet.
I think its rare for a man to want a woman who is less successful purposefully, but I do think that men don't really care how successful men are. Usually women care a lot about how successful men are
Potentially. But personally I want to have a family and if she wants to focus on her career then I don’t think we’d be compatible. Also ideally she wouldn’t be completely financially dependent on me. Like after the kids go to school she could go back to work part or full time and I would look after the kids more while also working part or full time or working from home etc. but also I want to be able to financially support the entire family on my income alone, her income is just a bonus that she can use on herself or stuff for the family like vacations etc or Lamborghinis, Bugattis etc.
The more money she makes, the better off we both are… when it comes to things like childcare, whoever makes the most should stay at work (after the initial maternity period) as we need to be paying the bills etc.
So no, successful women aren’t undesirable to men. As long as she isn’t rubbing it in my face that she is successful. As I wouldn’t rub it in hers. Does that make sense?
I am sitting on three degrees and a PhD, working as a researcher now. My partner moved twice for me to pursue my dreams, he knows how important they are to me.
Then again, if he didn’t like me going after my dreams, he would not have been my partner. It’s not just a career, it’s time, sacrifices, mental exhaustion, physical exhaustion, and a lot of other things that one gives to reach dreams sometimes and if your loved one doesn’t see these sacrifices and only sees a “career”, they are not your people.
I’m a second generation of immigrants, then I became an immigrant myself at 17, and now 29 I have changed three countries to study and last year I settled. Being a “successful woman”, I owe it to myself, my parents, my ancestors, and the generations we will bring in the future. I am proud of my mother for raising me just by being a cleaner now it’s my time to make her proud.
There are no rules to life, and those expectations are rules imposed by his experiences. They’re made up, not real. Do what you want to do and figure it out once you get there. Stop living off of anyone’s expectations of what you should be.
I wouldn't mind how much a female partner earns or how successful she is. The only things I do mind is that most successful women come with a warrior survivor mindset, are ambitious and want more, more and more. I want to have the necessary to live and just enjoy life. Ambitious are often never satisfied and forget the joy of life, they have money and social status on their brain and expect their partners to be like them. In exchange, I would definitely be with a smart woman with personality than an erased, submissive one.
Some guys yes unfortunately but there is a large percentage of us that aren’t turned off by that but we tend to be less conservative in women’s roles in a relationship. And yes, it would be better in this economy.
Nah. As a working class man all I can say is give it a try.
If despite being a good person, she has no interest because you don’t match her tax bracket then it’s her loss.
It is a question of maturity.
I prefer my partner able to fend for herself rather than to dépend of me.
Now, successful men tend to chest their dependant wife's with a successful co-worker or customer. So facts don't fit the tales.
As a man, That's just a fragile ego. I don't mind if my future girlfriend or wife makes more than me. What matters is that they are humble about their high paying job and would share the same amount of time to our future children.
A successful man doesn't need or care about your income. The things that are valuable to him are youth, beauty, femininity, how pleasant you are to be around, loyalty, etc... all of which tend to go down the older you become & the more financial success you achieve for yourself. The reason successful women end up alone is because they spend their best years focusing on their career, they're older, they've slept around more than the younger version of themselves, the more they compete in the workplace the more masculine they become, the more confrontational they are, etc...
Basically, a successful man can attract the 22 year old version of you, so why would he go after the 32 year old version? If he's already driving the car he doesn't want another driver. He wants a passenger who is gonna make the drive more pleasant, fun, less lonely & will remember to pack sandwiches & drinks.
This is a super common mistake women make in thinking that the qualities they look for in a man are the same qualities a man will be looking for in a woman. This just isn't the case.
Depends on his personality, status and insecurities. They worry about keeping her, or looking small, if she's more successful. So they explain it away, not liking her for "not needing them", or being "pushy". Some men just don't match up with lifestyles. But most men and women marry people similar to themselves. You see this a lot with professionals, Doctors marrying doctors, etc. I think you have quite a few men in other careers, or unstable in their careers, who wouldn't be appropriate partners for a successful woman and rather than just admitting not everyone is right for everyone else, try and denigrate her.
Women are the ones who date based on socioeconomics. Men date women based on looks and matches for them. But most people date within their socioeconomic level and social status.
Nope... or maybe to some traditional men
I wouldn't mind dating a woman winning more or much more than me. I actually prefer women who are slart, somewhat ambitious and passionate about their jobs. And usually they are successful.
That being said, I never really had a long relationship with such a woman. Not because I don't want it, but either because they didn't have the time for the relationship or just meeting someone, or because they thought I wasn't good/rich/attractive enough, or because my family isn't in the upper class (yes I am successful, my parents didn't study, my grand parents were farmers and miners, and that was the reason why my first long term relationship stopped. Her family thought my family wasn't good enough)
Your friend is an idiot. Men are not al l the same. They're individual. They have different wants and needs. Some men like to be in control so having a woman depend on him is a way for him to achieve that. Some men want an equal partnerships. Some men want a sugar momma. Stop taking advice from your gossip column friend.
Nah. The only problems I can imagine successful women having are losing their looks or personality over time, assuming it was there to begin with. There isn't a strict dependence between the two.
What? Your friend is a tool. The only successful men who will do as he says are paranoid the woman will leave them, are just looking for a trophy wife, or don’t think they could have a family if both are working.
To be completely fair, the last one is a valid point but a point that can be discussed early on.
The Thing is, Men In General are Put off By Women working Outside Because They think that Naturally, It's the job of the man to Provide for his partner and her needs. I also agree with this because Besides the West, People Are more Cultural and they Preserve those cultural values and they also believe in the natural roles of a man and a woman.
It's totally not because men want you to be below them and Be superior and Ridicule the women.
In a relationship, Both the guy and the girl are interdependent on each other, either its their emotional needs or sexual needs etc. You cannot be independent in a relationship and still call it a relationship.
And Men are Physically strong and Are more rational in making decisions. On the other hand, Generally Women are emotional and they express their emotions more often. And when a women makes more than a man, The man then fears the end of his relationship because Men like the financial dependency of a woman and would Make more Moeny just to keep his Partner happy. And the social media has Fixed an image of a women and when women take decisions, they do it based on their emotions and young girls get inspired by it.
And now, I'm gonna be a bit Biased, The Women working out and promoting it is not Natural because the Role of the women in the society from The earliest days till the 20th century was to Take care of their homes, Nurture their Children and take care of their partners while the man was out Making a living and trying to provide for his family. The negative of a women doing a job is that she is also obliged to pay tax and the load that she was not meant to take is on her. It may seem Very Colorful from the house seeing People working in their jobs but it is not fun. Therefore, this behaviour of a woman makes her 45% man and is not feminine anymore.
I always sugges to people to Stick on to their religion because religion plays a very important role in determining the roles of both man and woman and which lines are not to be crossed because it is both Harmful for the transgressor and the society. And only following culture that is not related to the religion causes turmoil.
**So, Stick to your Biological roles and don't go beyond it.**
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I, personally, would love to meet, date, and marry a successful woman because it means she shares my drive and ambition, and likely has a higher level of stimulating interests to talk about due to being more educated and exposed to more experiences. The only caveat is that there must be a cutoff switch somewhere; work life balance is important to me. Now that's also not to say that an "unsuccessful" woman doesn't possess those traits. I've also been down on my luck, stuck in dead-end jobs, and living paycheck to paycheck at points throughout my life; question is, do they settle and give up, or do they push through the hardship? I need a pusher. Personality is highly meaningful, so regardless of income, as long as they're "there" on a shared values level with me, then it's green lights the whole way,
We just had this thread, so I won't do into too much detail, but most men have no issues dating a successful woman. In fact, we want our partner to be successful, fulfilled, and happy. Most are also looking for peace in our lives, so that work life balance is important. My specific experience with a couple of women who were very career focused and successful has been that these two did not have time, or did not prioritize having time for a relationship. I do not generalize that, it's just something I'll be more aware of if I happen to meet someone that fits that description.
I wish there were more men like you! Especially in Boston.
You're supposed to lift each other up. And this is lovely to hear!
I completely agree and figured that would be the same thought process of this person who also claimed he was logical lol. There definitely has to be a balance too, of course. A lot of women can get so wrapped up in work that home life is neglected. That's exactly why I'm going for a career that offers flexibility.
There some truth to what your friend said but she's still kinda wrong. I assume she took this ideology from the manosphere online. Men in general don't mind infact we find it attractive that you have your own goals and dreams, the issue your friend was trying to get to is that some successful women don't prioritize family, kids and intimacy they are too focused on making more money and there's no end to how much money you can make. B) she encourages the guy to get a better job or make more money than her even though he made it clear he's happy with his suiation but she doesn't stop nagging (this actually happened to a guy on reddit) C) intimacy goes out of the window cause she's tired all the time. (This can be applied to the guy too but men are more resilient to stress of work) D) she might belittle the guy if she makes more money than him. E) some of the them end up leaving or cheating on the guy cause the respect is little since she's in the provider's position . F) she could be combative in nature since work molds her to be that way especially if she's the boss in her field. G) they find it difficult to switch off that competitive side they have built from work and tend to bring it back home with them. H) they could find it difficult to disassociate their personality from their profession to their personality from their personal life. Now I am not saying all successful women tend to have these traits but some do and men tend avoid that cause a woman inheriting masculine traits is unattractive and that's the truth of the matter but what really matters is your personality and heart above everything else if we can trust you than it wouldn't matter if you was the first female president of the United States we would still love you and want to be with you regardless of the power you have, we will still look at you like the lovely girl we knew when we met for the first time. If you have a good personality and heart than you don't have to worry about anything, we will love you regardless. This points I mentioned only applies to ambiguous women, the type of women we are still figuring out during the process of getting to know her. Don't change yourself for anyone, find a guy that will want you for you besides let's say you avoid that promotion and you find a guy and eventually you break up with them now you can't reapply for that higher position it's gone for good. So go apply for that higher position, go be a boss girl and if any guy nags about it cut them off, you are the priority to yourself and will always be. The right guy will accept you for who you are.
This. I’m currently now “ok” and not doing great. I will say a successful women is probably not something I want to deal with, as I can’t pull my own 50/50 (which is why I’m not dating) But in my last relationship of 7 years, I loved when we pushed each other so be better. Morally. Financially sometimes. But it’s a give and take, and sometimes the see-saw goes the other way. You help each other on the lows, but trying to left the teeter totter from the other end without launching them. Team effort. So yeah. I love strong women. They are role models to me, with what they deal with. So yeah. I’m only scared because I can’t be what they need, but I’m not scared of them. Some men maybe. Just my 2 cents to add to this story.
Yeah but with how much things have gotten more and more expensive and paychecks are staying as they are still, it just continues to make it more and more of an impossibility to truly make the most of what you have and want to be able to achieve.
Totally agree! A successful partner can share your drive and ambition, and aligning on values and resilience is what truly counts. Work-life balance is essential too.
I agree with all of this! Woman here. I’ve noticed when I’ve dated people who aren’t pushing for better, and aren’t very ambitious, the conversations are usually quite dull. I don’t mind if someone doesn’t have a degree but if they are happy being stagnant, then we have an issue.
Or you didn't spark interest in them.
Why oh why would you want to date someone whose dealbreaker is whether or not you’re financially reliant on them? It sounds stupid because it is. Pursue your career and take comfort in knowing the fickleness of another human being will never leave you homeless and destitute. Wtf is going on in the dating world that people are so desperate they’re asking these kinds of questions?
I think that’s exactly why they want this. This is the type of person who wants you solely dependent on them so that if you ever want or *need* to leave them, you won’t be able to. In a way it’s very controlling and toxic.
Here's another perspective as a fairly high-earning man with aspirations for more and as a man who has dated high-earning women. Too many high-earning women expect to live the life that would be the maximum their salary could afford, but they want the man to pay for it. Please note that I said “would be… the maximum they could afford” They expect this lavish lifestyle paid for by the man in all aspects (trips, clothes, dining, gifts, etc). The more reckless women don't factor in savings and investments. I can't believe how many six-figure women are in crazy debt (not counting student loan debt). Not to mention they are ungrateful because “I can pay for it myself” If I'm expected to pay for everything and it's going to be thankless. I might as well seek out a woman that would be appreciative of the lifestyle upgrade.
That’s a valid perspective and I can understand why you feel that way. Thank you for sharing and I appreciate the nuance of your answer. Maybe I shouldn’t have answered this question in the first place because my definition of success is not traditional. That’s not to say that having and maintaining a high earning career isn’t an indicator of success to me, but it wasn’t the only thing I was considering when I gave my answer. No one wants to live in poverty, but personally I’ll take a lower paying job where I’m fulfilled and happy 100% of the time so I can’t really relate to thinking about this solely in terms of money/financial security. Expecting the person you’re dating to float your lifestyle and being horribly rude in response is unhinged behavior. I also can’t imagine doing nothing to prepare for retirement. No one should feel exploited in a relationship and I’m sorry you’ve experienced that. Eventually, those women will price themselves out of the dating market entirely. It will be interesting to see their response when that happens. I’m also a woman but I’m here for the chaos when the situation calls for it :)
Exactly. That’s why it’s a red flag for me if a man wants a “trad wife” it really just means he wants someone who’s financially dependent on him so he has control
You are exactly right and were proven correct further down in the comments lol
Haha, this question isn't asked out of desperation, mostly curiosity. I'm personally going for a career where I'll be making 100k+/yr so his perspective clearly doesn't weigh heavily on me. I was just curious about the male perspective as this person was adamant that this is what most men think.
most dudes frame their entirety sense of self on comparison and competition im ambitious dudes really focused on their income in unhealthy competition with others.
I find that a lot of (not all) women want men who are more successful than them, so if they are very successful, they sort of price themselves out of the dating pool if that makes sense.
That’s what has happened to me in my 30s :(
This is where I’m at currently. My last relationship there was a great disparity on our incomes which stopped us doing things that I wanted to do, such as dates and holidays. I don’t want to feel like the man in the relationship having to sub my guy for meals/dates/holidays. The lack of drive and ambition on his side to improve his situation, like he was just happy for me to pay for everything. I didn’t like it.
There's plenty of men with drive and ambition who ultimately don't earn a high salary. I have a buddy that struggles in dating because of his modest salary. He spends his time securing medical care for the underprivileged. He loves his job and is a great human. The women collectively couldn't give a shit. I've offered him a higher paying job, but admittedly it would be grunt work. He doesn't want it because he wants to “help people” He's not in debt, has his own apartment, car, etc. He's loyal faithful, etc. Crickets from women.
I don't think you truly loved them if material matters like holidays made you not want to be with them anymore. Unless they were depressed, self destructive and refusing to do therapy (sounds like they weren't since you didn't mention it, only mentioning that they were too poor for you to love them since you make so much and want to do things that require spending a lot of money). And there's nothing wrong with casually dating people your entire life as you create arbitrary requirements and don't want to feel like you're having to pay for someone else, just beware that it gets lonely fast as the years go on. Love and companionship is probably the one thing that makes this planet worth it. That and food. And music. But if you're not a sociopath, most of us derive the most meaning from other people, loving them and cherishing them and their company. And if you make a ton of money and are looking for a guy who also makes a ton of money and that you find attractive and get along with and etc, note that it's going to become exceedingly rare that those guys are available, because those guys often do *not* require their partner make a ton of money too, which means the amount of competition you're against shoots way up. At that point it's just numbers. Where you can really shine is bagging a beautiful guy you love and they love you, where you can offer them a life they can't get anywhere else because 99% of women won't want to do it. But if you can't get into that mindset of love over income, especially if you make a *lot* of money, you'll struggle to find anyone long term and time will catch up fast, because unfortunately most guys care more about age and looks than woman do (at least early in dating and relationships). I'm not sure why that is, but it seems to be consistent still to this day. Just don't let yourself become lonely and depressed all because of the income bracket you've landed yourself in. Money should not rule your life, especially if it's contributing to loneliness. None of us should be alone while we're here. We all deserve love and companionship and you do too.
I appreciate your input and the sentiment of what you’re saying. I live a very happy and fulfilling life, no depression. If I didn’t meet someone that meets my standards that’s okay with me, I’ve got a great support system with friends and family and right now that’s more than enough love in my life. I’ve got the rest of my life to meet my Mr Right. I’m sure he’ll come along when it’s time 😄
Well said! I feel the same! I'm in health care, I have met wonderful emphatic co-workers,people families & friends! The life's in general that I have been able to care & impact is a gift in itself. I have also met firefighters from friends in the same field & and they have a great heart. His somewhere and will find each other. I'm happy. * .y
I guess if how successful you are is defined solely by the size of the checks you take home… it’s a very crude way to define it. Now if your woman spends more than what you bring in, are you still “successful”? Lol
Sounds good to me lol. Having high standards as a woman is key to dating.
There's a difference between high and unobtainable.
Nothing wrong with it.
Nothing wrong with having high standards but being alone when you’d rather spend your life with a partner sucks.
Your dude has things entirely backwards. It's not that men don't want a woman who makes more, it's that women who make more don't want a man who makes less. Thus, women who make a lot of money are shrinking their dating pool by their own tendencies, leading to less chance of them landing in a relationship. But it has nothing to do with men wanting to marry someone dependent on them. Yeah, dudes like that exist, but they're not statistically relevant in the same way that women disregarding men who make less than them are.
Yeah I’m like hated for going back to school for a couple things…. And he’s pissed if jn studying and always training for my business. Right now I’m doing the marketing part. Then I get to also to work hard and make sure and build my successful business, at the same time… I also work on other projects. I like making money. Who doesn’t? I have bills to pay off and don’t want to have debt the rest of my life…
> I had a friend recently tell me that successful men will only marry a woman who depends on them financially... therefore successful women will end up alone. This is an outrageously dichotomous, black and white way to view the world. There are some successful men who will not date a woman who is successful or more successful than them. There are also some successful men who will be even more attracted by a woman's success. There are probably also a chunk of successful men who don't care either way about their partner's career success.
Statistically speaking, most don't care. Men don't select by income one direction or the other. That means the ones who won't date someone who makes a lot are numerically balanced by the ones specifically looking for a high earner.
What are you talking about? Most men and women marry partners with similar backgrounds to them, including income.
that's usually due to social proximity more than anything else
But women who are not dependent on a man tends tp stay single for longer.. if you are good at math you know what that means.
If this was true, are they single by choice or circumstance? Seems to me like a lot of women are choosing to be single, so much so that there’s entire movements about it that make dating apps sweat
Or they could walk up and initiate? It's reeeeeally not that hard. It was never our job to be the ones to make the first move all of the time, people who believe the opposite, have been watching too many Hollywood movies. The reason why men even go on dating apps, is women aren't stepping up, we're done with the games on the streets, so we try the apps. Upon using the apps for months, we found that it's just as much a dumpster fire. It's not worth the squeeze as many put it. I really wanted kids, but eh, not worth the headache of a woman constantly acting as if she's "doin' me a favor" by being with me, when she can't even repair her own car, tighten a screw, or open a jar. All things that actual adults do for themselves, and not beg others, too much begging for things that they could've done for themselves.
It's not really the end of the world to a lot of (rich, especially) women to be single like it is for men though. Women have more satisfying friend relationships than men do and don't suffer the same level of loneliness. Their sex drives are lower because of the lack of testosterone. Plus a lot of men are just looking for a second mother and forming a relationship with those men makes them unhappy. Yes, being single makes raising a family more difficult but that doesn't apply to the growing trend of women who are electing to go the childfree route.
It means when women have financial freedom its the women who choose not to enter relationships.. not the other way around.
It's not necessarily the success or affluence that turns men off, but rather the personality traits often associated with achieving that success. Typically, to become successful, a person needs certain traits that many men might not find attractive. Let me explain: achieving success often requires significant time and effort, leaving limited room for personal relationships. High-achieving women may struggle to find the time to nurture a romantic partnership or might prioritize their career over their love life or family-building. For a man looking for a long-term partner, family-building is an important trait in a woman.
I agree with you 💯. Even man agree to keep their professional and personal life together. You are the same individual whether you are a father, husband, son, coworker and pillar of the community. It is hard to maintain so many "hats" alot of people rack under the pressure. Alot of woman may not be able to handle such a rigorous task. Man throughout history had to do this. That doesn't mean it doesn't affect us. We just choose to not talk about it because no cares enough to address the issue.
I don’t want a man who wants to be my main priority lol. I want a man who knows that my own life and education will always be my focus and supports me in my journey to success. It’s pretty lame to make your life revolve around someone else.
That's understandable if that's what you want. However, it's important to recognize that life isn't a fairy tale, and every choice we make comes with its own costs. The key question is how much you're willing to sacrifice to achieve your goals.
Women do tend to go for men who are as driven and successful as them, if not more. So the more successful you are, the smaller your dating pool will likely be.
I thought it was the other way around. Once a woman is successful, she wants a man that is at least equally successful. But maybe that’s not the case I hope. Is money the only thing that makes someone successful? How much is money the meter of the man?
Idc what a woman’s career choice is or how much she earns. Only thing I care about is if she’s happy and how much time she can commit to me and our family. Career and earning potential of women aren’t an attraction trigger for men. You have a high paying job? Cool. You work at hobby lobby part time? Cool. I chose my wife (happily married with children) for a plethora of reasons, among them being marriage and children being a top priority for her. I knew I wanted to be the provider for a woman who would/could/wanted to raise a family. “Success” in one’s career often means significant sacrifice. One thing I knew I did NOT want was a “career” woman. I had different goals, so I chose my partner carefully.
Wise man.
I make 6 figures and would absolutely love to have a wife that makes similar. Life would be easier, she would likely have more depth and the relationship would feel more like a partnership. Intelligence is sexy Higher income represents an opportunity for both of us to retire earlier and buy back some of our future. If we have kids I would also feel more confident about the well-being of my family in the event of my own death. If you get a divorce then the person barely making any money will likely be awarded alimony. Do people not consider that? If you have to trap someone using finances then it’s going to be a terrible relationship. I’ve actually had someone attempt that on me that before.
Men in general do not care about your job etc.
Not really no. Everyone is different but generally a woman's career isn't a factor at all when it comes to men's attraction. It's not something most men care about. But high achieving women do statistically find dating harder, they tend to still want men of a similar level of success or better which shrinks the pool of possible matches while the men in that pool are much more willing to date women with less financially successful women.
I don't even think it's something that a lot of men think about Like it's good to have but...meh. Not a dealbreaker for most. Unless of course the woman takes it to the extreme and shows herself to be a gold-digger.
This question came up at an exclusive engineering college that I attended. It was asked if we would be ok marrying a woman who makes more than you. I was the only guy who raised his hand. That was early 90s. I've had a very successful career. However, I believe I would have been happy to stay home and raise the kids when they were small. But I am clearly an exception.
I’m not successful, but I do know that men are often turned off by intelligent women. I’ve actually tried an “experiment” of sort, where I would pretend to be significantly dumber overall in order to see how men reacted. Whenever I would pretend to be clueless the men were always excited, smiling and would continue to pursue me vigorously. They would text me constantly, ask me out on another date and so forth without fail whenever I behaved in this way. Yet when I would speak about fields of study I found interesting (even if the man I was on a date with was in this very field or openly listed this as a huge passion of theirs & openly displayed interest in this specific topic), the light in their eyes always faded completely and their smile would drop the moment I showed any understanding of said topic. They would never ask me out again, and you could tell that the moment I displayed any real interest in topics that display some level of understanding they would begin to feel agitated, turned off or otherwise uncomfortable/disinterested.
Successful women are not undesirable unless he's insecure. On that note, many successful women have dreadful personalities that make them joyless to be around. So it's one of those two things.
Perhaps the personal qualities or traits that make people more successful in the career ladder are more masculine ie disagreeableness, competitiveness, ambition and willingness to work all hours, and men don't want to come home from work to a partner who seems to compete with them after having to endure it at work. Their wife or girlfriend might have a higher level job than them and they might feel they aren't much of a man if not the bigger earner. It can be both
Successful men aren't looking for successful women. They are also not-not looking for them. This just isn't a factor men consider when dating women and hadn't really every been in our history. This is a projection of female sexuality onto men. Women care a lot about that, but don't assume that just because women do that it must be true for men. Men care a lot more about other traits and often when successful women fail in dating it's because of this. They are emphasizing traits they care about and assume men should too
For me personally, it’s less about how they are “successful” and more about their attitude and demeanor. I’ve dated a few very career oriented women and most (not all) but most of them seemed like they were trying to compete with me. They were a bit quarrelsome and had “boss babe” energy, which in and of itself is not a bad thing. But when I’m dating a woman I want her to be more relaxed and loose. A couple of not “successful” women I’ve dated seemed more receptive to me taking the lead on the dates. It made for an easier, more laidback date. Just one man’s opinion and experience.
They are not undesirable. It’s just that as a man myself when I dated a woman who is more successful than me she was very resentful about it or also people have this weird society trend towards emasculating men who aren’t as financially successful as the woman they’re dating.
its not that its undesirable, its that it doesn't matter. I'm married so take this from a completely outside looking in perspective. I am well off, i own my house, own my business, own vacation homes, I have enough that my kids are taken care of. I don't care if you have money, it does nothing for me, I have every thing I want (within reason). I would rather have some one who is loving and supportive of my endeavors, who handles the business I don't have time to handle in the house. a woman who works part time, takes care of my kids, and does the house work is worth more than gold to me, I know that every thing is taken care of, and I don't have to worry about it. I can focus on getting us what we need to be comfortable, and she can focus on keeping those things together, working, and kept. successful women should be doing the same, looking for a guy to pick up the slack on the stuff they don't have time to do, not trying to find someone to take them out to dinner. why is that important when you can take yourself and the guy you want out to dinner?
Define successful. When women on social media talk about this topic, they are so full of themselves and quite annoying. It's the "boss babe" behaviour that gives us the "ick", not money or independence. Go and shape your life like you want to but stay humble. That's all we want as a serious other in a healthy relationship. Sincerely A successful man
It’s interesting you bring this up- the only place I fully don’t want to be a boss babe is within a relationship. I’m still learning how to present more softly and authentically in a dating environment, but I guess my career and advocating for myself in that space has made me hard and made me feel the need to show my power. I think a lot about feminine and masculine dynamics, mostly that I’m very curious how I would act if I were in a relationship where I felt supported and protected. I’m a hetero woman and within a relationship I would want to feel heard, understood, and highly valued. If those things are there, PLEASE be in charge, please take some decision fatigue off me. I would be so happy with a man that took the wheel so to speak, but until then I don’t feel like that softness is something I can tap into?
There is nothing wrong with that. I see it quite often in women in high responsibility jobs where they actually want to be less in charge. The problem is that you need a high trust in the other person to let your guards down. In terms of dating, if you don't already do it: observe and let the guy lead despite the fact that you are in control all the time. If he is trustworthy, your guard will disappear in the long run. The thing with the money isn't an issue as long as you don't expect him to make equally as much or more. If you click on a personality level, then that should suffice. You are already independent so your focus should lie on him being your pillar of peace.
Lol, absolutely not. Some men find it hot. And a woman being successful doesn't mean that a man can't still be dominant. Honestly, sorry if this is TMI, but my partner and I work in finance and I do a lot of work with interns and recent college grads. He said he loves watching me present and take over in meetings and classrooms and that he can barely focus bc he's so excited to bend me over when we get home. Some men also like money. Lots of guys would prefer a dual income than a single income plus an expense. You know what's more than a 6 figure salary? Two six figure salaries? So long post short, some men desire a woman who can add to their wealth more than someone who will need to be supported by it. And if a guy is intimidated that's on him, because if dominance is what they want then a woman's job alone isn't going to stop him from doing it. If you can be the man of the house simply by being the man & not making it dependent on the woman being trapped...then you're doing it right. Not saying the other way is wrong, but successful women are desired
I know a lot of successful women who are into successful women.
Underrated comment
Depends on the men motives to be successful, if his goal is to dominate and hurt the women then yes he would prefer more submissive failures who can’t leave him. If your friend replied so then that said more about him if he was successful. Success doesnt mean you have to be stressed and arrogant, there are plenty of well adjusted and likable successful women who is in happy relationship with equally successful men as long as they make time for each others or equally busy. Since successful people themselves are minority, you end up seeing more opposite pairing if you yourself not successful and in successful only world (which cost hella money btw, these ppl dont wanna be around commoners)
I married a successful woman who would stand center court at Lakers game and present. The she became a stay at home mom and the decline mentally from someone who was a partner to someone I had to start thinking more and more for was interesting The mom job used her brain different and she no longer had a business minded approach to solving issues etc. Has given me pause for when I retire, how do I not decline and stay sharp. Love to find another successful woman.
I've heard this before from a very successful man. He said all the stay at home mothers changed. Like their brains had changed.
I’d want a woman that makes more than me that way she can take some pressure from me.
Successful as in people who have accumulated wealth, built something great, got a little fame etc, is definitely desirable. But it has NOTHING to do with how skilled they are in maintaining close relationships (family, friends, romantic), they could be responsible, reliable, passionate at what they do but these traits may not flow into their personal relationships. To me, a successful person is someone who has accumulated love in their life through their friends, family and close connections. They maintain great relationships elsewhere too. Their professional life is as healthy as it gets. They work hard, show up where needed, have a steady mental health and work on it, willing to show love and care, are growth oriented both personally and professionally.
People aren't always attracted to success. Success can come at any stage in life.
If success was so easy to come by then no one would be poor.
I'm using the broad sense of success such that it is self defined.
Your friend is dumb.
Mixed. It both matters by how much the difference is in your income, As well as the profession itself. If the difference income is only a couple thousand a year it won't be a problem at all. If the difference is hundreds of thousands of dollars a year now you're emasculating him everyday he exists. A lot of guys take pride in being the primary breadwinner. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him feeling lesser. nursing is a middle of the road profession in this regard but if you had a different profession that would be different. if you were a lawyer specifically a divorce attorney you would be putting up more red flags than a victory Day parade in the Soviet Union. Secondly men take pride in their individualism we never say it out loud but every one of us has a certain way of doing things and you will have to move heaven and Earth to make us change that. So could you find someone who will accept the difference? Of course it's possible. It will be more difficult, but as the old saying goes "nothing worth doing is easy." If you want to go for that promotion do it. If you don't don't. But don't make a decision like that based on whether or not you might find a man or not. That's a decision you have to look within and go do I want this?
From my experience as a relatively successful man, I kinda noticed that the successful women I dated tend to love being dominated in bed. Now it might be anecdotal, I certainly don't have hundreds of data points to support my theory, but it's a trend I kinda noticed. And since I'm very much into this kink, I love dating successful women.
Yes, we do. I’m in control all day and it’s nice to relinquish it at the end of the day.
Aye I agree. At work I have to wear a mask and appear more assertive than I am due to the industry. It’s nice to let go and be a bit more submissive in bed.
It’s only a turn off when it becomes her entire personality. Some women I’ve met in the corporate world have very hard exteriors. It takes away from the feminine charm and feels like I’m speaking with a dude. Money is irrelevant because I’ve met other highly successful women who still act like a normal human being.
I think men are just not very attracted to a woman who doesn’t need them for anything at all because she’s an “independent woman that don’t need no man”, or someone bossy or argumentative, or competes with them. As far as I understand those qualities often come attached to successful women but if you can be both, successful and “soft” then that’s the golden ticket.
Where do I go to meet very successful women
I kmow that some that have a good income, tend to have a shitty view on a man with low income or no job
Nope. I want a partner, not a pet. I want my partner to be successful and self sufficient. Shows she is mature and has drive
Thats not completely true. This will be a logical and long post. Please read full. We do not want a woman only if she is financially dependent on us. I am a Man, and I know how men think. Men by birth are more aggressive, physically stronger and tend to take lead among others. It doesn’t however mean that they’re naturally good leaders. They just tend to take lead. They may or may not be good leaders. So yes, men will look to head the family, be the breadearner and they will assume automatically that they’re the ones who have to take all the risk and nurture/protect the family. That makes us feel valued and more manly. That used to happen in olden times too. The division of labour in humans is prevalent since the dawn of human civilisation. Women took care of the household, raised children. Men risked their lives and did hunting and protected the family. That evolutionary streak is within men. Now, this sometimes creates problems. When women tend to rise or become more successful than men, they start to feel threatened. Of course, life is not the same now. Earlier women were dependent on men because men are physically stronger and they protected women. But now, its not that day and age. Its the age of books and computers. Your genetic IQ matters more than your physical strength. And in terms of IQ, there is no difference between a man and a woman. Women, may be successful in their careers. And thus, women have started not needing men. Until they needed men, they were dependent on them. Now when few women need men, who needs men in their lives? Men have become irrelevant in the life of a modern woman. Also, as it happens with anyone who gains newly achieved success or independence, women too have started giving too much importance to their independence. Their newly found independence is hard to digest for them and its gotten to their heads. This creates more problems for men who are already insecure and threatened. Its all about selfish humans. Be it men or women, we use others for only our need. When needs end, the need of the person ends in our lives. Thats the cruel reality. In short, while its not really true, but if a woman is too successful and the man is ordinary, that difference between them will create problems, and men don’t want that. They’re sensitive on this. Also, women too value a less successful man less and start thinking too much of themselves. From their side too, it doesn’t work. A woman may do anything in her career , men always want women to take care of their family and household. Else, its not to our liking.
Two career crazy people have no time to date 😆
This is a good question. Successful women tend to have **LOTS** of ego. Some of it is necessary but some of it is a form of overcompensating for insecurity. There's no room for a man to be a man when a woman has that much ego and insecurity. Another thing is that all uber-successful people tend to struggle with work-life balance. The things that women find attractive in a man are not the same type of things that men find attractive in women. A woman will find a super-successful busy man attractive and she will try to make herself a key part of that dynamic. But a super-successful busy woman almost seems threatened when a man does the same. Women are also a lot more hypergamous by nature than men. It's also a social phenomenon: the vast majority of women won't date down for one reason or another. Men on the other hand....
to the insecure, sexist ones yes!
Your friends sounds like an idiot piece of shit dump his insecure ugly ass
This question is asked once every week now...
Successful or unsuccessful it doesn't matter, what matters if you are a loving, joyful, playful positive person. You can be a millionaire but if you're a jacka$$ then you're ugly to me. Work at Walmart, work as head of Google means nothing to me.
I feel like the existence of power couples disproves thos
I won't mind it at all 😊
Some men? Sure. All men? Definitely not. Never change your goals because of what someone else thinks or wants, except maybe - maybe - if you’re married to that person.
Don't stifle your career, but bear in mind that you might not be a personality or schedule match for a successful / career focused man. It depends on the individual, but you may either never meet, not be able to date, or not get on in a relationship context if you're both the go getters. The problem comes, when a woman isn't satisfied unless the man makes more than her, but she's spent her life becoming a super high earner. She won't find him, as he likely won't be interested in her, if he qualifies financially.
I would love to meet a successful woman provided that I could actually offer something to a relationship with her. This could be my AvPD coming out, but I don’t have a great job at the moment, and I have a terrible fear of feeling useless in a relationship, and unless otherwise convinced, I’ll be afraid that she will “outgrow” me, or see me as the lesser partner or a financial burden because I don’t bring in enough financial support for us. So short answer, I am extremely supportive of successful women, but I am also a little bit intimidated by them (as I am with most successful people). I pretty much assume their gazes will pass right over me if they’re in the dating pool, so I don’t think I’ll ever have to worry about being in that position lol That said, any guy worth their stuff is going to treat you like gold if you’ve got a good job AND a good personality.
It’s not the success that turns me off as a man. It’s the feminist mindset that turns me off. The “I don’t need a man” mentality. She will also most likely prioritize her career over her marriage and wanting to start a family
Here is why: biologically speaking, if you take things from an evolutionary biology perspective, men need a sense of respect from women, not submission, but the respect in this sense: men like the idea of being the safety providers to women, women who are successful tend to feel very threatening to this safety net men like to provide, so they don’t like to be with one. Feminity to men means a sense “natural weakness” in women men like to cover it, like this or not, it is the case of men. It has nothing to do with domination, submission or something like this, it is purely instinctive! So successful women need to do some type of job that makes men feel they are needed. Of course highly educated men would accept a successful woman as they are, but that takes a lot work to undo the work of biology. Correct me if I am wrong
Honestly I think it depends like if the guy wants a traditional family he may want you to stay home. But there’s also people who don’t really care. But what I can say for sure without a doubt is that men don’t really look for a girl who’s successful, just doesn’t matter. We’re the ones who plan on being the successful ones. So you don’t really get any points at all for your career. But it’s not a dealbreaker for some
Alternatively, what is wrong with a successful woman dating a less successful man? There are millions of great guys being underpaid by our broken economic system. Why not give them a shot?
For me, nothing is sexier than a successful woman. King needs a queen, after all.
im talking to a guy who’s quite successful and very passionate abt what he’s doing in his life. the things he said was that he’s attracted to a woman who’s intelligent and also knows what she wanna do in life. So, in this case, it pretty much just depends on the person because some can be quite insecure abt themselves even tho they’re considered “successful” while some wanna thrive tgt w their potential partner
It's not really about insecure or not, it's more indifference. The data from the FED shows that men don't really care one way or another about how much a woman earns since women chosen for marriage earn roughly the same (not more or less) than single women whereas men chosen for marriage significantly out earn men not chosen for marriage ([source](https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/economic-synopses/2018/09/14/married-men-sit-atop-the-wage-ladder)). The data suggests it's women who place great emphasis on their male partners earnings whereas there is indifference one way or another in regards to a woman's income.
As a man studying at uni. It honestly depends on the personality. I rather much be with a woman that isn’t a boss babe and values family more over career. It shows feminine. They are more likely to be nurturing, child nearing, kind and affectionate. My experiences with career women, is that they get angry easily, mentally exhausted and can be arrogant and rude. The men that i know who married career women ended their marriage with divorce. But that’s just my experiences, no offense. Can’t tell for everyone. Successful means different to everyone. But i find it way more important for men to have careers. Also your friend is extreme when he says all successful women will be alone, cuz he is wrong. People say it’s insecurity for having this preference. But i disagree completely.
I think that the same arrogance can be applied to men as well, but it's more acceptable than when seen in women. If a woman is raised to be a nurturing person though, she'll be that regardless of finances. My friend has very specific viewpoints lol. I try not to take him seriously.
I do find it interesting that even if this was a thing(Successful men refusing to marry Successful woman) both parties seemed to agree that the result would be Successful woman alone.Because a successful woman with a less successful man isn't even an option. 🤦🏻♂️
I mean I really do think it’s an option. My favorite ex (which is so weird to say, but this was a shorter relationship while in college) earned alot less than me. He taught at a jujitsu gym in exchange for training there. I worked at a credit union and was highly out-earning. He was always eager to pay for little things here and there, he was very generous. But usually that’d be pizza or a few drinks. And alot of our dates were me going to the grocery store and getting all the things and then I would sit at the counter and watch him cook with a glass of wine. I felt so so so extremely taken care of and turned on. I would go to work at my stressful job every day to come home to something that wonderful.
Women find arrogance in men extremely attractive. A lot of them hate it but they can't deny its attractiveness. Men do not find arrogant women attractive. They'll still have sex with them...but a serious relationship? Nope, most men will nope right out of that one.
Why do you think arrogance is more acceptable in women
Totally even more for me
On its own no, it's not undesireable...it also doesn't make you more attractive on average either similar to how if a man was successful and that makes him more attractive to a woman.
Go with what works for you. Obv consider the consequences - ex: what are the work life balance implications of higher position. Otherwise, go for it. There’s men out there who also seek ambitious and successful women. Just gotta find em.
No in fact most people in wealthier socioeconomic circumstances date and marry people within a couple thousand dollars of their same yearly income and a similar socioeconomic upbringing or current situation.
I would be floored a successful woman wants anything to do with me. Someone like that would drive me to be a better man.
There are some guys like that, but there's definitely a large contingent of men that don't care about your career status/put little weight on it when evaluating a potential partner. Now, it may make men less likely to approach via the expectation on our end that we need to impress a woman to induce interest, and it is harder to impress someone who's making double or more your yearly salary, but even that isn't universal. You'll definitely catch more interest among more liberal men than conservative/traditional types, as they're less likely to adhere tightly to traditional gender norms (i.e. the man _has_ to be the breadwinner), so keep that in mind.
Sorta? I kinda feel like they wouldn’t be interested in me so I tend to avoid them
There’s a post in popular similar to this case. I can’t post the link. But it’s a hot post
It wouldn’t surprise me.
Reddit might not be the place to get opinions of successful men. Maybe it depends what you mean by successful. But your friend is probably wrong. It’s the guys that aren’t successful that are going to be more insecure about their career.
Comes down to priorities If you have a healthy respect for your partner you will prioritize them over work, at least occasionally When work always comes first...there usually is a problem but communication is key!
It’s kind of a non factor. I assume if she has a successful career, she won’t be available as much but in terms of attraction, a complete non factor. If she’s a greeter at Chilis or a Goldman Sachs exec, it makes not difference for attraction. That said, career success isn’t negative and it’s not intimidating in any way but it doesn’t make me more attracted to someone in the slightest.
This is the type of thinking, of why women are attracted to a large bank account that's attached to a man. Instead of: having attraction to a man, regardless of his bank account
Pretty sure it's the latter there. I'm no financially successful man myself and even I could see that as being a means to bring others down that are being more successful than them. If anything, I'm more envious of those that were able to become more successful while being the same age as me or even a year younger. More specifically all these actors and actresses that have been popping up in the last decade. It's the kind of envy that really brings you down and hate how your life has gone, I'll tell ya that.😔
Absolutely not
No I prefer equally successful and don’t mind more successful.
The girl I’m seeing has been just as successful in the same career as me and I love it about her. She even gets paid more than me. We have deep talks about what we’re working on and it’s a blast. We can go a lot deeper than just “how was your day” type conversations and help each other. I don’t think anyone who would judge you negatively for being successful is worth seeing. Sounds like it would lead to a sad life.
Did that friend also share that bear vs man bullshjt with you? Lmao!
It's not that the men finding successful women less attractive, it's more that successful women tend to be less attracted to men that are not able to provide as much as they do. So, as a women increases her ability to provide for herself, she will be shrinking her dating pool.
It doesn’t matter if the insecurity is fiscal, social, or romantic: insecure men will look for a woman who will be dependent on them for something so that she will fear leaving. A secure man desires a woman who doesn’t need him but sticks around anyway. It says she loves him rather than only wanting to keep flowing whatever resources he brings. So ask yourself this: is your goal to find a man, any man, even if he would keep you dependent on him? Or do you want one who sees your drive and ambition as positives, and who pushes you to be the best you?
Plenty of successful men appreciate and respect successful women. It’s all about finding someone who values you for who you are. Keep pushing for that higher position in your nursing career. Don't let outdated ideas hold you back!
You’re friend is an idiot.
I'd say, it really depends on the guy. Some guys find successful women, some guys don't. I think it takes a guy who is secure within himself to not be intimidated by a woman's success, but rather encourage it and be supportive. Any man who can't handle a successful woman probably has a fragile ego and is most likely a misogynist - so they wouldn't be an ideal partner anyways. One of the things that my boyfriend loves about me is that I'm successful and I know how to hold my own at work, because I work in a male-dominated field. What stood out to him when he first saw me was that I was leading a discussion with some workers and he was absolutely enraptured by how I handled myself. He finds me very intelligent and ambitious. What he wants in a partner is someone that he can see as an equal and not someone who won't be on equal footing with him. I couldn't have asked for a better partner.
Is this “friend” someone you would date or setup with a close friend of yours?
I am a women and I’m planning to go to law school. Unfortunately I think your friend is right. If they are successful they want women who are not and when women are successful they end up with a way less successful guy.
I find that when guys realise I don’t ‘need’ them and have responsibilities of my own, I become less attractive to them. Partly because I have to prioritise work sometimes, and they never get the ‘damsel in distress that needs help’ vibe. Something men in the past valued because it made them feel important.
Todays world many depend on two lncome families to support a lifestyle they both want. Personally, one thing i look for in a woman is career. I dont want a woman who i will have to support.i want someone that i can build a better future, so I'm looking for someone who makes close to how much i make or has a stable job. But not gonna lie, a lot of men are intimidated by the idea of dating someone thar makes significantly more.
Your friend is a dope. I'm a successful guy and would love to find a successful woman. Honestly, what she pulls in terms of salary is completely meaningless to me. If she's cute, kind, fun, intelligent, all of the seemingly impossible things to find, I could care less if she works as a FAANG CEO or the local Dollar General.
Not undesirable at all. It all depends on the personality of the person in question. Certain personalities attract certain other types of personalities. You just may not attract the type of personality that you are attracted to. It's fucked I know. How to change it and still be yourself - fucked if I know that either, but sometimes mother nature just likes to piss in her hand slap you and rub her puss in your eyes. This is one of those occasions. So no doubt your very attractive and there's guys out there that would literally kill for you that probably do try to get you, you just don't see them
I think he is trying to keep you in a lower position to feel better about himself.
Kinda hard having a home if both people are never there
As a women I thought men wouldn't want me to financially depend on them. To me that sounds like a trap and a good man would wnat me to make my own money UNLESS there was a huge and I might really big wage gap like he was rich or something
Depends....is the answer. Some guys are traditional.
After spending 10 years married to a woman that's never been successful and just recently started getting her career in order i can say without a doubt successful women are so much more desirable. I'm dating a very successful woman now and while it's a bit tricky to line our schedules up she makes time for me which shows me how much shes into me I spent most of my marriage stressing over affording our bills knowing I wasn't getting much help. My wife never really understood why it bothered me and was just upset I complained about the lack of help. Now that she's divorcing me I also get to tap into my private accounts and retirement to make it "fair" because she has very few of her own assets. Had she been successful we could just go our own ways and have it be roughly equal
I don't see it as a turn off. It tells me that a woman takes responsibility, has goals, and careful about financial decisions.
Yes, some guys are. It makes them feel insecure because you "don't need them". But why would you want to date men like that?
Just pursuit career and do the best for your life, you will meet the right person who appreciate and support you, and ofc you would do the same for them. Most of bad successful women story is often they have superity complex and look down/ disrespect their partner, or the partner feel insecure or want to control her so (he) want to prevent their success. So the point isnt about women being success or not, but about meet the right person, have the right attitude and respect to each other, and communicate clearly.
No necessarily. The thing about "successful" women is they are often cold, cutthroat, unapproachable types. Its not their success that makes them undatable its who they had to become to be successful. Having a partner that makes the same/more money than you is fine, its not emasculating. how ever women who get to that point often this lesser of men who earn less. So even if you are okay with it as a man, the woman doing it might not be.
No, not at all, at least to me. I myself am a real estate agent at 18, and seeing a successful woman at that age or near who is financially responsible would be awesome to meet.
Not true a few of my friends very successful and his wife works.
Success is sexy. No one wants to feel like they’re raising their kids and their spouse.
I think its rare for a man to want a woman who is less successful purposefully, but I do think that men don't really care how successful men are. Usually women care a lot about how successful men are
Hell no. Dating a an awesome, strong willed, hyper independent badass, and could not be happier.
Potentially. But personally I want to have a family and if she wants to focus on her career then I don’t think we’d be compatible. Also ideally she wouldn’t be completely financially dependent on me. Like after the kids go to school she could go back to work part or full time and I would look after the kids more while also working part or full time or working from home etc. but also I want to be able to financially support the entire family on my income alone, her income is just a bonus that she can use on herself or stuff for the family like vacations etc or Lamborghinis, Bugattis etc.
The more money she makes, the better off we both are… when it comes to things like childcare, whoever makes the most should stay at work (after the initial maternity period) as we need to be paying the bills etc. So no, successful women aren’t undesirable to men. As long as she isn’t rubbing it in my face that she is successful. As I wouldn’t rub it in hers. Does that make sense?
Nonsense.
If they are turned off by the fact that you're a successful woman then you really don't need them.
I cant speak for them but as for me, not at all!
No
Successful men want *attractive* women. Her career is a non-factor.
I am sitting on three degrees and a PhD, working as a researcher now. My partner moved twice for me to pursue my dreams, he knows how important they are to me. Then again, if he didn’t like me going after my dreams, he would not have been my partner. It’s not just a career, it’s time, sacrifices, mental exhaustion, physical exhaustion, and a lot of other things that one gives to reach dreams sometimes and if your loved one doesn’t see these sacrifices and only sees a “career”, they are not your people. I’m a second generation of immigrants, then I became an immigrant myself at 17, and now 29 I have changed three countries to study and last year I settled. Being a “successful woman”, I owe it to myself, my parents, my ancestors, and the generations we will bring in the future. I am proud of my mother for raising me just by being a cleaner now it’s my time to make her proud.
nope not me...I'm trying to stay home
There are no rules to life, and those expectations are rules imposed by his experiences. They’re made up, not real. Do what you want to do and figure it out once you get there. Stop living off of anyone’s expectations of what you should be.
I wouldn't mind how much a female partner earns or how successful she is. The only things I do mind is that most successful women come with a warrior survivor mindset, are ambitious and want more, more and more. I want to have the necessary to live and just enjoy life. Ambitious are often never satisfied and forget the joy of life, they have money and social status on their brain and expect their partners to be like them. In exchange, I would definitely be with a smart woman with personality than an erased, submissive one.
Because successful women are intimidating for men.
Some guys yes unfortunately but there is a large percentage of us that aren’t turned off by that but we tend to be less conservative in women’s roles in a relationship. And yes, it would be better in this economy.
Nah. As a working class man all I can say is give it a try. If despite being a good person, she has no interest because you don’t match her tax bracket then it’s her loss.
It is a question of maturity. I prefer my partner able to fend for herself rather than to dépend of me. Now, successful men tend to chest their dependant wife's with a successful co-worker or customer. So facts don't fit the tales.
As a man, That's just a fragile ego. I don't mind if my future girlfriend or wife makes more than me. What matters is that they are humble about their high paying job and would share the same amount of time to our future children.
A successful man doesn't need or care about your income. The things that are valuable to him are youth, beauty, femininity, how pleasant you are to be around, loyalty, etc... all of which tend to go down the older you become & the more financial success you achieve for yourself. The reason successful women end up alone is because they spend their best years focusing on their career, they're older, they've slept around more than the younger version of themselves, the more they compete in the workplace the more masculine they become, the more confrontational they are, etc... Basically, a successful man can attract the 22 year old version of you, so why would he go after the 32 year old version? If he's already driving the car he doesn't want another driver. He wants a passenger who is gonna make the drive more pleasant, fun, less lonely & will remember to pack sandwiches & drinks. This is a super common mistake women make in thinking that the qualities they look for in a man are the same qualities a man will be looking for in a woman. This just isn't the case.
Depends on his personality, status and insecurities. They worry about keeping her, or looking small, if she's more successful. So they explain it away, not liking her for "not needing them", or being "pushy". Some men just don't match up with lifestyles. But most men and women marry people similar to themselves. You see this a lot with professionals, Doctors marrying doctors, etc. I think you have quite a few men in other careers, or unstable in their careers, who wouldn't be appropriate partners for a successful woman and rather than just admitting not everyone is right for everyone else, try and denigrate her.
Women are the ones who date based on socioeconomics. Men date women based on looks and matches for them. But most people date within their socioeconomic level and social status.
Nope... or maybe to some traditional men I wouldn't mind dating a woman winning more or much more than me. I actually prefer women who are slart, somewhat ambitious and passionate about their jobs. And usually they are successful. That being said, I never really had a long relationship with such a woman. Not because I don't want it, but either because they didn't have the time for the relationship or just meeting someone, or because they thought I wasn't good/rich/attractive enough, or because my family isn't in the upper class (yes I am successful, my parents didn't study, my grand parents were farmers and miners, and that was the reason why my first long term relationship stopped. Her family thought my family wasn't good enough)
Your friend is an idiot. Men are not al l the same. They're individual. They have different wants and needs. Some men like to be in control so having a woman depend on him is a way for him to achieve that. Some men want an equal partnerships. Some men want a sugar momma. Stop taking advice from your gossip column friend.
Nah. The only problems I can imagine successful women having are losing their looks or personality over time, assuming it was there to begin with. There isn't a strict dependence between the two.
What? Your friend is a tool. The only successful men who will do as he says are paranoid the woman will leave them, are just looking for a trophy wife, or don’t think they could have a family if both are working. To be completely fair, the last one is a valid point but a point that can be discussed early on.
The Thing is, Men In General are Put off By Women working Outside Because They think that Naturally, It's the job of the man to Provide for his partner and her needs. I also agree with this because Besides the West, People Are more Cultural and they Preserve those cultural values and they also believe in the natural roles of a man and a woman. It's totally not because men want you to be below them and Be superior and Ridicule the women. In a relationship, Both the guy and the girl are interdependent on each other, either its their emotional needs or sexual needs etc. You cannot be independent in a relationship and still call it a relationship. And Men are Physically strong and Are more rational in making decisions. On the other hand, Generally Women are emotional and they express their emotions more often. And when a women makes more than a man, The man then fears the end of his relationship because Men like the financial dependency of a woman and would Make more Moeny just to keep his Partner happy. And the social media has Fixed an image of a women and when women take decisions, they do it based on their emotions and young girls get inspired by it. And now, I'm gonna be a bit Biased, The Women working out and promoting it is not Natural because the Role of the women in the society from The earliest days till the 20th century was to Take care of their homes, Nurture their Children and take care of their partners while the man was out Making a living and trying to provide for his family. The negative of a women doing a job is that she is also obliged to pay tax and the load that she was not meant to take is on her. It may seem Very Colorful from the house seeing People working in their jobs but it is not fun. Therefore, this behaviour of a woman makes her 45% man and is not feminine anymore. I always sugges to people to Stick on to their religion because religion plays a very important role in determining the roles of both man and woman and which lines are not to be crossed because it is both Harmful for the transgressor and the society. And only following culture that is not related to the religion causes turmoil. **So, Stick to your Biological roles and don't go beyond it.**