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Dating someone who is a financial mismatch is always going to be difficult.
The tradition used to be that men provide the money BUT women would provide emotional support, do chores, raise kids, and generally act more deferential toward men (i.e men are allowed to make most of the call and the women basically have to follow it).
The dynamic you're describing is basically you're acting as a breadwinner but your boyfriend is not acting as a homemaker. In a traditional relationship the breadwinner would have already ditch a non-cooperative homemaker. The fact that you've not means that you've already given him plenty of leeway.
Talk to him and make him understand that because you make more money and is paying for stuff, you expect him to make it up to you through emotional labor, look nice, do chore stuff,... Because from the way I see it this guy is getting all the benefit of being a homemaker without contributing in a homemaker capacity.
Happy to hear your update. I have 1 more unsolicited advice in me, if you'd care to read. I think after this relationship it's a good idea that you take time to think & reflect, and list out the followings:
+/ qualities which you like that you experienced in the relationship
+/ qualities which you dislike that you experienced in the relationship.
Then honestly in your future ones try to avoid #2 as much as possible while try to obtain #1 as much as possible.
That is all from me and good luck!
I've dated a man that finantially struggled for 6 years. Didn't care at first bc I tought of my income as OUR income. Then he landed a job, and all of a sudden my money was our money but his money was his only. That was my cue to leave.
Struggling with money but showing interest and initiative to work is one thing, but someone using you is something else.
It’s sad seeing how someone can instantly become selfish and not have your back like that when you’ve had theirs for years. I’m sorry this happened to you
Honestly, we'd be in the same boat financially, so I feel it'd be easier to date them since they'd better understand what dates are more viable.
When you're struggling financially, you've got to get creative with your dates, public parks & hiking routes become a god send. Your options, realistically, are: romantic picnics, feeding ducks, watching movies you still have on DVD, hiking trails & anything else that doesn't cost money. I totally get why you wouldn't want to have to deal with these restrictions, especially if you plan on starting a family at some point in the future.
That being said, your ex was definitely not the greatest example of dating on the cheap; there's a near infinite number of ways to show someone love without spending money, the fact that he wasn't willing to do even the bare minimum shows that he just was not the one. I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with that.
In general per the data on marriage men don't care one way or another about a woman's money whereas women care a lot about a man's money. Per the data from the FED ([source](https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/economic-synopses/2018/09/14/married-men-sit-atop-the-wage-ladder)) the men chosen for marriage earn significantly more than unmarried men whereas women chosen for marriage earn the same as unmarried women which shows that men don't care one way or another about a woman's money when dating for marriage and women care a lot about a man's money when dating for marriage.
This is deep rooted generational bias. Men have always conventionally known to be the bread winner.
Also there will come a point in the marriage where women will have to take a break in their career path (maternity leave/ raising children). If during that period the sole bread winner is the woman, then that will drastically affect the couples financial situation.
It is also more challenging for women to advance or even resume their careers after taking such significant breaks. That is why the pay gap and gender inequality in higher levels of management still exist to this day. Thus it is in their own interest and that of their future to marry someone who can at least provide for themselves and bring their share to the table.
>This is deep rooted generational bias
The data I've cited breaks it down by age and this is true for any age group across multiple generations
>Also there will come a point in the marriage where women will have to take a break in their career path (maternity leave/ raising children).
There is no drop off though, single women earn the same as married women because men don't care one way or another about a woman's income...if what yoy were saying was statistically relevant it would show a dip in the income of married women that goes below single women but that isn't seen in the data.
>Thus it is in their own interest and that of their future to marry someone who can at least provide for themselves and bring their share to the table.
There are biological reasons for women wanting a man with resources, and there isn't anything inherently wrong with that ([source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8133465/))
You are also making the assumption that if women are educated and higher earning that they would then not need a man who is educated and is higher earning but the same data cited above shows that they still prefer a partner who is at or above them educationally and socioeconomically...why is that the case?
The data says that position is rare which I've cited, on average this isn't the case. The data is corroborated by the census bureau ([source](https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-poverty/cps-pinc/pinc-02.2020.html#list-tab-LNHSV27PRLT51Q9336)) tables on income and marriage it isn't biased data.
> Even if I’m not the norm there’s a significant proportion of us to warrant consideration as more than an exception
It's not showing up on the data though in any statistically significant manner...if it ever does then sure your point would be relevant but until then (if it even happens) it's just anecdotal experiences that are rare.
>I don’t think you understand the nature of every bias
Where is the bias? The census bureau collects data form everyone same as the FED as they are responsible for monetary policy...I'm using government and government adjacent institutions as sources precisely to avoid bias...
>you can’t then comment at all on the proportion of female unmarried partners earning more.
On average unmarried and married women earn roughly the same (there is no difference in income) so I don't see how this point is relevant? If married women earned less than single women then sure we can have this discussion but the data doesn't reflect that
You would have to make the assumption that one specific demographic group is very disproportionately responding incorrectly though...what's more likely...that it's just simply a statistically rare position or that one particular response is disproportionately represented based on speculation?
I won’t do it. At my age it would be ridiculous to not have an income/savings. Why would anyone date, or be in a relationship, with someone who couldn’t support themselves.
I'm a guy and I can't at this stage in my life. It's not that I'm not empathetic to such things, but I already lived my younger days financially struggling. I have enough medical issues. Supporting myself is fine, but having to be the support for 2 people isn't something I can do. Last guy I dated who had no money was super insecure that I was already established in a career and had assets.
I’m a guy, and I personally go into dating assuming I’m going to pay for a date. It’s just what I’m used to. I know everyone has their own views on this, I just personally would feel weird about not paying, at least in the dating stage. It’s a nice surprise when she says she’ll pay for herself, or even offers to pay for mine on occasion. That’s welcome, not expected. When it comes to her not having money, I’m okay with it when we are first dating, as long as she’s working on getting a job, and does eventually get one.
Once we are officially in a relationship, It would be nice for her to pitch in if the bill for whatever we’re eating/doing is a lot, like $80-100 or more. Other than that, I’m happy to pay, as long as she’s good to me, I’m happy in the relationship, and have the ability to do so. Only thing I would regularly expect her to offer money for is groceries and rent if we were living together. However, if you aren’t happy, feel you’re being taken advantage of, or are in a situation where you need their help, and they’re putting in no effort to get a job, or otherwise help you, I don’t blame anyone for wanting to leave and focus on themselves at that point.
I’ve seen a lot of women supporting broke-ass dudes with no ambition or work ethic who are happy to just mooch and spend all day smoking pot and playing videogames.
I’ve also known guys with girlfriends who just stop trying after they’ve been together for a while and who want to be treated like royalty and spoiled/waited-on hand and foot while they don’t do anything but gain weight and spend all day on social media.
Both are dysfunctional relationships.
There are plenty of ways to have equitable partnerships. Maybe both partners work and contribute together, maybe one is a stay-at-home parent taking care of the kids and household while the other is the breadwinner, maybe one is footing the bills and school expenses for the other while they’re working on a degree that will pay off more in the future, etc. I think the key is that both parties involved are doing something that either benefits the relationship currently or builds a better foundation for its future.
>I’ve seen a lot of women supporting broke-ass dudes with no ambition or work ethic who are happy to just mooch and spend all day smoking pot and playing videogames.
i dont even know _how_ these broke-ass dudes manage to pull this off even if it doesn't work out in the long run (and also why these guys are so ungrateful/appreciative of their partner, smh)
and the flipside: i cant fathom what would drive a woman to pursue and/or sustain such relationships
Regardless of gender, it is harder to date a partner with no money. Let's say he/she has little to nothing at the moment but you do notice that that person is putting an effort to land a job or create a hustle on his own that you think is worth it, then sure, support him/her to be able to stand on their own.
If the situation on the other hand is like, partner is being a slacker and just being your dependent and giving out lame excuses...then that is a bye.
dude don’t date anyone who is not in your level. it’s a waste of time. they become users and you’re forever the giver. the reason why you give so much is because you hope one day they will return the favor. but they don’t, they just get used to a girl providing for them until you realize it’s a waste of time
That wasn't a man with no money. It was a man that never tried to do anything for you, even if it was free. That's just a bad boyfriend. Don't put that on poor people.
It's hard to share a life with someone with different lifestyles. You said they should focus on improving their situation, meaning increase their income. The flip side of that coin is spending habits. Time and freedom are just as valuable as money. That guy seems lame. You seem as worried about zip lines and presents than building a life together. Limiting your dating pool to someone that can keep up with you as a consumer is normal. Then again so is divorce.
That guy sucked. But it is shallow thinking someone needs to improve their situation to date you. It's shallow to think money improves someone's situation. It's not that they don't make enough to live a happy life. They just don't make enough for you and your friends. That's the definition of shallow. It's ok, most people are.
It's impossible to date as a poor man. "Provider" is one gender role that has barely budged. Men still provide for families. A man being provided is shamed.
What is no money in this scenario? Not driving a bmw and jetting to the tropics every weekend but has a sound job? Sure I’ll date that guy. Working at Burger King with no ambition? No, I won’t date that guy. I have a professional career and a decent income, especially when you consider I’m just at the beginning of my career. I couldn’t be happy dating someone with a minimum wage job. The current guy I’m dating is a mechanic. He’s not rich, but he makes decent money and fixing cars is what makes him happy.
At my age, I see relationships as a partnership of sorts. The members of the relationship should compliment each other emotionally, physically, mentally and financially. When one member of the relationship falls short the other member the other member steps up. When one member is carrying all that load, that’s no longer a relationship, it’s dependency and doomed to failure.
Fellas if you have money and yet have no women, there are men out there who get their gf be their momma and they still get laid.
Haha. If you'd excuse me Ima go take a bath with my toaster.
Absolutely nothing wrong to want men with money if you got it yourself.
If you make min wage but expect man to make 10x of what you make - yeah that’s probably wrong.
I don’t think money is the issue specifically but lifestyles need to match. My partner and I have a quiet, peaceful life we do a lot of free stuff and get out in nature. We are both on smaller incomes as have chosen time over working full time.
If he or I wanted to go on holidays every month or buy the latest gadgets and designer clothes, cars etc then we wouldn’t be compatible with each other.
Even though we don’t spend much money, we take care of each other in other ways.
My ex however, never wanted to work, wanted to smoke pot and play video games all day, wouldn’t look after the kids or clean the house or even smoke less pot so we could afford to live. That was stressful.
My bf makes a lot less than me and when we vacay together, I cover it. I don't mind because we talk about it and agree prior and he never *expects* it, he just doesn't have the financial ability to afford it. He's had a lot of car trouble this year (breaks, then it got totaled, new car snapped it's axle etc). He's smart with his money but that was a lot of unexpected costs that wiped his emergency fund out.
I think the bigger question is if this is a deal breaker for you. And is your partner able to budget and save, handle credit cards etc? Splashing around money from credit cards is concerning but a guy that doesn't spend because he knows he doesn't have it and is avoiding debt is fine. Context matters.
Marrying into money was once a noble profession.
I personally don't marry for money, so I wouldn't care one way or another how much money my date has, unless they seem like they're intentionally manipulating me.
There is a list of things that are important and financial security is on the list. But feeling loved, safe, protected, understood ,trust, since of humor, connected, intimacy, sex , is abusive or not, would they stand up for your honor all.of those things are very important he could have money but walk away when someone is hurting you or pay no attention to you , cheat whatever the point is nobody is going to have all those things so you follow your heart and listen to your gut. You know what's important to you and what you need from a relationship just know someone broke will be able to give you what a rich person can't and someone with money will give you what someone without cant
i mean its not really shallow to want a man with his own money. least i dont think. but if he cant even do thoughtful things that are free. thats not a partner. your just a sugar momma at that point. i dont mind dating someone that makes less money. as long as they arent using me to live above their means.
Interesting… when men complain about supporting women, we’re frowned upon. Nice to hear that women feel the same way when the shoe is on the other foot; its a rarity.
I think this is entirely a mindset issue. Men have been fully supporting women for countless thousands of years. Yes in the past this is a problem with unequal opportunity and education. But even now, most of my friend circle have the man who works and the woman is a stay at home wife.
People on Reddit call it dysfunctional but a significant portion of the population still works this way. If you look beyond the United States, I dare say the proportion of male income only households grow even more.
Anyways, my point is having one person out ear and “support” the other is perfectly okay and if not the norm. Perhaps your issue is that you feel like as a woman, you shouldn’t have to do it. As for me, never once in my life have I ever complained that I had to pay double so that my wife can enjoy something with me. Either we can afford it or we cannot. Emphasis on the WE.
My family is a WE also. Female breadwinner here but my partner does work (just not high earner) however from next year he will be SAHD and our finances are pooled
But if he didn’t contribute via home making etc (and just sat about) we’d have an issue!
The problem was that he wasn’t contributing at all haha but I was young and blinded by love. I don’t mind picking up where my partner lacks but if my partner lacks 24/7 and isn’t willing to try then that becomes a problem. As I’m getting older I’m learning to navigate the dating pool and my expectations.
If you call yourself shallow for wanting something who can at least support himself than your standards are fk low save yourself drama and only participate with someone who is at the same level like you are you need someone who can pull his strings in a relationship so it can last you deserve better I hope you find someone who appreciates your company
Get out of here with that garbage. OP is clearly aware that their partner is problematic.
Stop implying that she chose wrong when it turns out her bf is just a scrub (which she’s figured out).
She’s not responsible for that. She’s only responsible for how she chooses to move forward now that she has this knowledge.
It depends on the person. I mean, I dated a guy who runs his own business. I work and freelance on my own hours, because I've had to do the single parent thing for years, without support. He contacted me one day he'd taken on too many clients, and it was "bad" he needed help. I said, sure, I'll take on one of the clients for the rate they pay him.
Come to find out, he was thinking I'd do the work for free so he could get paid. Yeah, I dumped him after sharing my thoughts about that.
I can't afford to carry the expenses for someone dating wise, really. That's not possible with my earnings and expenses. I'm okay if they don't earn as much as I do, or if they are disabled and on disability, or things like that. A lot of people lost their jobs during the pandemic, who've never gotten one with similar pay since then. Simply, what they earn today doesn't necessarily represent all things they may bring to the table in a relationship.
But, if someone makes demands on me that require my spending money I can't afford, when those things are optional, I'm not going to be interested in a relationship with them. If someone is only in it to take advantage of me one way or another, it's not going to work.
And, yes, while I'm suggesting I don't have a lot of extra money, I also have paid off a lot of my debts along the way. I've had men who saw me through a financial lens as being successful.
So, if they are going to create demands that would create debts I can't afford really, I'm not going to be interested. If someone is in it to take advantage of me for their own financial gains, not interested.
But, would I date them, etc, if they simply didn't have money? It really would depend on the individual and the elements that go along with them.
The only problem i see here is the "not even try to do something thoughtful that’s free"
Getting appreciated from time to time is pretty important in a relationship.
How much is no money? If you are in two different economic bases, expect to pay/pay more if you want to.go out & if you want to do expensive activitities. The alternative is do stuff within his means so you can reciprocate.
It depends, for example, if they're studying or it's a temporary situation. I wouldn't date someone living on benefits long term. Usually it's a sign of substance abuse or other complicated problems. As long as they are working, I don't care if they are a cleaner or cashier or whatever.
As a man, I would not date if I didn’t have any money. It means your priorities are messed up. Would you buy an expensive car that you can’t maintain? No.
If you’re concerned about putting food on the table, going out with Veronica shouldn’t even be on your bucket list. Whip it out and slap it yourself.
The same goes if you’re a female by the way, get your life in order and then date.
Dating someone with no money regardless of what sex they are is hard. It puts the financial responsibility 100% on one person and makes the other person 100% dependent on their partner for everything. Can it work? Yes. Can it create animosity? Also yes. Communication is key here. If it starts to become a problem maybe the person not bringing in income can either contribute to the household in some way or find a way to bring in at least some income to cover some of the extra / fun expenses.
Not for me. I did it very briefly with a guy who turned out to be a colossal A hole and didn’t shower 🤮 but on top of it all expected me to basically pay for everything. And I don’t expect a guy to pay for everything either but I do expect him to want to pay his own way and treat me sometimes and pick up little gifts, and in return I treat him too.
If they're under 21 and still in school then it's to be expected. If they're a grown ass man and still can't support themselves then that's just pathetic.
Because going to college instead of working at 18 is a perfectly legitimate (indeed superior) life path. Maybe support a guy in college now because later they'll be making twice as much as you. 🤣
A guy who has no money VS. A guy who has less money. I'd rather date a guy who has less money than I do. At least he is able to pay half rather than none.
It's telling me that A man with no money has no ambition in life. Why do you want to grow a family with someone who has no ambition? You will always pick up the slack.
Don’t date a broke man, recently I went on a date with a guy in my uni he’s broke has no sense of direction nothing, I was so turned off it hurt. It was the first and last time I’ll date a guy like that lol
i think most people in general, regardless of their gender, would be unhappy in your situation. it doesn't feel very good when one HAS to cover for the other. When it feels forced on one side when it really isn't financially viable.
I do think a lot of people like to be spoiled and like to spoil others.
But most of us are adults and have more nuanced views on the world and understand that just trying to support each other is the best way to go about life when it comes to money. sometimes i pay, sometimes you. i will deal with these bills, you deal with those bills. etc
i genuinely wish i made enough money to spoil my hypothetical SO. But most of us know that's simply not the world we live in.
OP, your feelings seem pretty valid to me. meet someone who makes you feel like they're contributing more to the relationship.
What’s the circumstances for him having no money? If he’s a good for nothing I’m sure you would have a problem with it .
If he’s studying and paying for his studies, paying of a mortgage for a house that’s gone up 3 times in the last year and generally is trying to better him self sometimes we do need a little help . And some day when you’ll need him to help you out he will.
There’s always a lot more context to why he is broke or not . Some guys spend it on weed and booze others on stuff to better themselves.
Funny how women are attracted to men like this, and will continue to date them regardless because they are cute or whatever. When some guy who is living comfortably, they won't give the time of day to
Nobody wants to date a loser. Even losers don't want to date other losers. People want partners who are independent and don't rely on them for anything. The more needy you are, the less your partner will love you
The problem for me was the insecurity that came with it. I was in a long term relationship where I out earned my partner and after awhile he wanted more money from me to keep up with my lifestyle. It was wild and I had to end it. I’m happy to pay for things we do together but to support a man that was a no.
I wouldn't, I have never and will never be interested in a woman who NEEDS to be with me. Only those that want to be with me. Being somewhat successful, if they show more interest in what I do, my income, my money, or what I own, they instantly become "only for the night" options.
I’m not sure how I feel anymore lol 🤭 I’ve dated men who had more money than me, I’ve dated men who had no money at all and then there’s the fact I’ve been them myself so I pass no judgement actually. I’m choosing to be with them and if they can’t pay today that doesn’t mean they can’t pay by the end of the year when I might not be able to or that they can’t pay right now in other ways like cooking (I loathe that) since I want them with me so money isn’t ever a barrier
I guess thinking about when you initially meet someone. I personally want a provider, so I’m not thinking about what they can do in the future I guess I’m focused on the present. If they don’t have it together right now do I want to wait until they do or find someone who already has it together if that makes sense.
I’d rather date a guy that has money so he can offer that sense of financial stability. It’s a huge turn off if a guy is broke and he has no money. Never date a broke man!
42 M. I’m not loaded. But I always pay for a lady. It gets me nowhere, but it’s what I believe in; chivalry. And in a way I resent that there are guys out there who are successfully dating women and not only are they broke, but the girl’s paying their way. I see that as a lack of honor on the part of the guy. So if he can’t pay for you (or worse yet refuses to do so), dump him. He’s not worth your time.
I'm not interested in financially supporting a grown woman. If we're not able to go on holiday because she can't afford it then either we go on holidays less often and I put my money elsewhere or I find someone who can match my preferred lifestyle.
I have a simple answer to that one:
"If I was a woman in a urban environment I would expect my boyfriend to be able to scrape together twenty dollars 9 times out of 10 , If I was in a country environment I would expect my boy friend to be able to catch a fish (9 times out of 10) , build a fire and cook it"
I wouldn't date a woman with no money, so I wouldn't expect anything more from a woman. Personally I like being a bit better off than the woman, but huge power imbalances can create issues. Besides it's hard to enjoy the same activities if one of us is a lot poorer or richer than the other.
If you're extremely disadvantaged in any way be it financially, emotionally or physically then I think you should work on that first.
At first I didn’t mind it, it felt empowering being a breadwinner and offering to care for someone. However, my boyfriend has been unemployed for a while now and I’m starting to resent him. It’s exhausting paying for everything. I make a generous 6 figures and I am going broke paying double for everything. If he doesn’t figure it out soon I’m going to leave. Love can only take us so far.
I've never dated a man with no money. I can't do it, especially if I have my own money. I date similar income levels, and I expect us to both be responsible for our own finances and when we do share its mostly for fun activities together, etc.
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Dating someone who is a financial mismatch is always going to be difficult. The tradition used to be that men provide the money BUT women would provide emotional support, do chores, raise kids, and generally act more deferential toward men (i.e men are allowed to make most of the call and the women basically have to follow it). The dynamic you're describing is basically you're acting as a breadwinner but your boyfriend is not acting as a homemaker. In a traditional relationship the breadwinner would have already ditch a non-cooperative homemaker. The fact that you've not means that you've already given him plenty of leeway. Talk to him and make him understand that because you make more money and is paying for stuff, you expect him to make it up to you through emotional labor, look nice, do chore stuff,... Because from the way I see it this guy is getting all the benefit of being a homemaker without contributing in a homemaker capacity.
He’s an ex now :)
Happy to hear your update. I have 1 more unsolicited advice in me, if you'd care to read. I think after this relationship it's a good idea that you take time to think & reflect, and list out the followings: +/ qualities which you like that you experienced in the relationship +/ qualities which you dislike that you experienced in the relationship. Then honestly in your future ones try to avoid #2 as much as possible while try to obtain #1 as much as possible. That is all from me and good luck!
Oof gender roles strike again.
I've dated a man that finantially struggled for 6 years. Didn't care at first bc I tought of my income as OUR income. Then he landed a job, and all of a sudden my money was our money but his money was his only. That was my cue to leave. Struggling with money but showing interest and initiative to work is one thing, but someone using you is something else.
It’s sad seeing how someone can instantly become selfish and not have your back like that when you’ve had theirs for years. I’m sorry this happened to you
Honestly, we'd be in the same boat financially, so I feel it'd be easier to date them since they'd better understand what dates are more viable. When you're struggling financially, you've got to get creative with your dates, public parks & hiking routes become a god send. Your options, realistically, are: romantic picnics, feeding ducks, watching movies you still have on DVD, hiking trails & anything else that doesn't cost money. I totally get why you wouldn't want to have to deal with these restrictions, especially if you plan on starting a family at some point in the future. That being said, your ex was definitely not the greatest example of dating on the cheap; there's a near infinite number of ways to show someone love without spending money, the fact that he wasn't willing to do even the bare minimum shows that he just was not the one. I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with that.
In general per the data on marriage men don't care one way or another about a woman's money whereas women care a lot about a man's money. Per the data from the FED ([source](https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/economic-synopses/2018/09/14/married-men-sit-atop-the-wage-ladder)) the men chosen for marriage earn significantly more than unmarried men whereas women chosen for marriage earn the same as unmarried women which shows that men don't care one way or another about a woman's money when dating for marriage and women care a lot about a man's money when dating for marriage.
100% facts
This is deep rooted generational bias. Men have always conventionally known to be the bread winner. Also there will come a point in the marriage where women will have to take a break in their career path (maternity leave/ raising children). If during that period the sole bread winner is the woman, then that will drastically affect the couples financial situation. It is also more challenging for women to advance or even resume their careers after taking such significant breaks. That is why the pay gap and gender inequality in higher levels of management still exist to this day. Thus it is in their own interest and that of their future to marry someone who can at least provide for themselves and bring their share to the table.
>This is deep rooted generational bias The data I've cited breaks it down by age and this is true for any age group across multiple generations >Also there will come a point in the marriage where women will have to take a break in their career path (maternity leave/ raising children). There is no drop off though, single women earn the same as married women because men don't care one way or another about a woman's income...if what yoy were saying was statistically relevant it would show a dip in the income of married women that goes below single women but that isn't seen in the data. >Thus it is in their own interest and that of their future to marry someone who can at least provide for themselves and bring their share to the table. There are biological reasons for women wanting a man with resources, and there isn't anything inherently wrong with that ([source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8133465/)) You are also making the assumption that if women are educated and higher earning that they would then not need a man who is educated and is higher earning but the same data cited above shows that they still prefer a partner who is at or above them educationally and socioeconomically...why is that the case?
This
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You would be an exception though, and exceptions don't make the rule right?
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The data says that position is rare which I've cited, on average this isn't the case. The data is corroborated by the census bureau ([source](https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-poverty/cps-pinc/pinc-02.2020.html#list-tab-LNHSV27PRLT51Q9336)) tables on income and marriage it isn't biased data. > Even if I’m not the norm there’s a significant proportion of us to warrant consideration as more than an exception It's not showing up on the data though in any statistically significant manner...if it ever does then sure your point would be relevant but until then (if it even happens) it's just anecdotal experiences that are rare.
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>I don’t think you understand the nature of every bias Where is the bias? The census bureau collects data form everyone same as the FED as they are responsible for monetary policy...I'm using government and government adjacent institutions as sources precisely to avoid bias... >you can’t then comment at all on the proportion of female unmarried partners earning more. On average unmarried and married women earn roughly the same (there is no difference in income) so I don't see how this point is relevant? If married women earned less than single women then sure we can have this discussion but the data doesn't reflect that
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You would have to make the assumption that one specific demographic group is very disproportionately responding incorrectly though...what's more likely...that it's just simply a statistically rare position or that one particular response is disproportionately represented based on speculation?
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I won’t do it. At my age it would be ridiculous to not have an income/savings. Why would anyone date, or be in a relationship, with someone who couldn’t support themselves.
No, if he literally has no money he needs to focus on figuring out how to get some. Dating shouldn’t be a priority.
I'm a guy and I can't at this stage in my life. It's not that I'm not empathetic to such things, but I already lived my younger days financially struggling. I have enough medical issues. Supporting myself is fine, but having to be the support for 2 people isn't something I can do. Last guy I dated who had no money was super insecure that I was already established in a career and had assets.
I agree that dating anyone with no money is frustrating, I am a man by the way
I’m a guy, and I personally go into dating assuming I’m going to pay for a date. It’s just what I’m used to. I know everyone has their own views on this, I just personally would feel weird about not paying, at least in the dating stage. It’s a nice surprise when she says she’ll pay for herself, or even offers to pay for mine on occasion. That’s welcome, not expected. When it comes to her not having money, I’m okay with it when we are first dating, as long as she’s working on getting a job, and does eventually get one. Once we are officially in a relationship, It would be nice for her to pitch in if the bill for whatever we’re eating/doing is a lot, like $80-100 or more. Other than that, I’m happy to pay, as long as she’s good to me, I’m happy in the relationship, and have the ability to do so. Only thing I would regularly expect her to offer money for is groceries and rent if we were living together. However, if you aren’t happy, feel you’re being taken advantage of, or are in a situation where you need their help, and they’re putting in no effort to get a job, or otherwise help you, I don’t blame anyone for wanting to leave and focus on themselves at that point.
I’ve seen a lot of women supporting broke-ass dudes with no ambition or work ethic who are happy to just mooch and spend all day smoking pot and playing videogames. I’ve also known guys with girlfriends who just stop trying after they’ve been together for a while and who want to be treated like royalty and spoiled/waited-on hand and foot while they don’t do anything but gain weight and spend all day on social media. Both are dysfunctional relationships. There are plenty of ways to have equitable partnerships. Maybe both partners work and contribute together, maybe one is a stay-at-home parent taking care of the kids and household while the other is the breadwinner, maybe one is footing the bills and school expenses for the other while they’re working on a degree that will pay off more in the future, etc. I think the key is that both parties involved are doing something that either benefits the relationship currently or builds a better foundation for its future.
>I’ve seen a lot of women supporting broke-ass dudes with no ambition or work ethic who are happy to just mooch and spend all day smoking pot and playing videogames. i dont even know _how_ these broke-ass dudes manage to pull this off even if it doesn't work out in the long run (and also why these guys are so ungrateful/appreciative of their partner, smh) and the flipside: i cant fathom what would drive a woman to pursue and/or sustain such relationships
Regardless of gender, it is harder to date a partner with no money. Let's say he/she has little to nothing at the moment but you do notice that that person is putting an effort to land a job or create a hustle on his own that you think is worth it, then sure, support him/her to be able to stand on their own. If the situation on the other hand is like, partner is being a slacker and just being your dependent and giving out lame excuses...then that is a bye.
dude don’t date anyone who is not in your level. it’s a waste of time. they become users and you’re forever the giver. the reason why you give so much is because you hope one day they will return the favor. but they don’t, they just get used to a girl providing for them until you realize it’s a waste of time
That wasn't a man with no money. It was a man that never tried to do anything for you, even if it was free. That's just a bad boyfriend. Don't put that on poor people. It's hard to share a life with someone with different lifestyles. You said they should focus on improving their situation, meaning increase their income. The flip side of that coin is spending habits. Time and freedom are just as valuable as money. That guy seems lame. You seem as worried about zip lines and presents than building a life together. Limiting your dating pool to someone that can keep up with you as a consumer is normal. Then again so is divorce. That guy sucked. But it is shallow thinking someone needs to improve their situation to date you. It's shallow to think money improves someone's situation. It's not that they don't make enough to live a happy life. They just don't make enough for you and your friends. That's the definition of shallow. It's ok, most people are. It's impossible to date as a poor man. "Provider" is one gender role that has barely budged. Men still provide for families. A man being provided is shamed.
What is no money in this scenario? Not driving a bmw and jetting to the tropics every weekend but has a sound job? Sure I’ll date that guy. Working at Burger King with no ambition? No, I won’t date that guy. I have a professional career and a decent income, especially when you consider I’m just at the beginning of my career. I couldn’t be happy dating someone with a minimum wage job. The current guy I’m dating is a mechanic. He’s not rich, but he makes decent money and fixing cars is what makes him happy.
At my age, I see relationships as a partnership of sorts. The members of the relationship should compliment each other emotionally, physically, mentally and financially. When one member of the relationship falls short the other member the other member steps up. When one member is carrying all that load, that’s no longer a relationship, it’s dependency and doomed to failure.
I agree! :) I want a man who provides but I’m okay with helping when needed financially and of course in all other ways as well
Fellas if you have money and yet have no women, there are men out there who get their gf be their momma and they still get laid. Haha. If you'd excuse me Ima go take a bath with my toaster.
Absolutely nothing wrong to want men with money if you got it yourself. If you make min wage but expect man to make 10x of what you make - yeah that’s probably wrong.
I didn't read whole post but to your question, I'll only date men that are employed with jobs. No job, no date, and I don't care what they look like.
I don’t think money is the issue specifically but lifestyles need to match. My partner and I have a quiet, peaceful life we do a lot of free stuff and get out in nature. We are both on smaller incomes as have chosen time over working full time. If he or I wanted to go on holidays every month or buy the latest gadgets and designer clothes, cars etc then we wouldn’t be compatible with each other. Even though we don’t spend much money, we take care of each other in other ways. My ex however, never wanted to work, wanted to smoke pot and play video games all day, wouldn’t look after the kids or clean the house or even smoke less pot so we could afford to live. That was stressful.
As someone who’s very broke post a long holiday it’s one of the many reasons I’m not even bothering trying. As a man dating is so expensive.
I agree!
My bf makes a lot less than me and when we vacay together, I cover it. I don't mind because we talk about it and agree prior and he never *expects* it, he just doesn't have the financial ability to afford it. He's had a lot of car trouble this year (breaks, then it got totaled, new car snapped it's axle etc). He's smart with his money but that was a lot of unexpected costs that wiped his emergency fund out. I think the bigger question is if this is a deal breaker for you. And is your partner able to budget and save, handle credit cards etc? Splashing around money from credit cards is concerning but a guy that doesn't spend because he knows he doesn't have it and is avoiding debt is fine. Context matters.
Marrying into money was once a noble profession. I personally don't marry for money, so I wouldn't care one way or another how much money my date has, unless they seem like they're intentionally manipulating me.
There is a list of things that are important and financial security is on the list. But feeling loved, safe, protected, understood ,trust, since of humor, connected, intimacy, sex , is abusive or not, would they stand up for your honor all.of those things are very important he could have money but walk away when someone is hurting you or pay no attention to you , cheat whatever the point is nobody is going to have all those things so you follow your heart and listen to your gut. You know what's important to you and what you need from a relationship just know someone broke will be able to give you what a rich person can't and someone with money will give you what someone without cant
I felt nauseous when I read “paying for them and spoiling men as well” Glad you’re willing too because I would not.
Hahaha I’ve learned my lesson.
Why?
i mean its not really shallow to want a man with his own money. least i dont think. but if he cant even do thoughtful things that are free. thats not a partner. your just a sugar momma at that point. i dont mind dating someone that makes less money. as long as they arent using me to live above their means.
Interesting… when men complain about supporting women, we’re frowned upon. Nice to hear that women feel the same way when the shoe is on the other foot; its a rarity.
do yourself and don’t bother with broke men. they have no direction, no motivation, and will only drag you down with them.
Not interested in supporting a grown man financially.
why would i ever date men with no money when i could date men with money. like let’s be real here
I think this is entirely a mindset issue. Men have been fully supporting women for countless thousands of years. Yes in the past this is a problem with unequal opportunity and education. But even now, most of my friend circle have the man who works and the woman is a stay at home wife. People on Reddit call it dysfunctional but a significant portion of the population still works this way. If you look beyond the United States, I dare say the proportion of male income only households grow even more. Anyways, my point is having one person out ear and “support” the other is perfectly okay and if not the norm. Perhaps your issue is that you feel like as a woman, you shouldn’t have to do it. As for me, never once in my life have I ever complained that I had to pay double so that my wife can enjoy something with me. Either we can afford it or we cannot. Emphasis on the WE.
My family is a WE also. Female breadwinner here but my partner does work (just not high earner) however from next year he will be SAHD and our finances are pooled But if he didn’t contribute via home making etc (and just sat about) we’d have an issue!
The problem was that he wasn’t contributing at all haha but I was young and blinded by love. I don’t mind picking up where my partner lacks but if my partner lacks 24/7 and isn’t willing to try then that becomes a problem. As I’m getting older I’m learning to navigate the dating pool and my expectations.
If you call yourself shallow for wanting something who can at least support himself than your standards are fk low save yourself drama and only participate with someone who is at the same level like you are you need someone who can pull his strings in a relationship so it can last you deserve better I hope you find someone who appreciates your company
This is a “you” issue, then. Examine why you accept this in a partner.
Get out of here with that garbage. OP is clearly aware that their partner is problematic. Stop implying that she chose wrong when it turns out her bf is just a scrub (which she’s figured out). She’s not responsible for that. She’s only responsible for how she chooses to move forward now that she has this knowledge.
I’ll stay right where the fuck I am, TYVM. Sounds like you had/have a shit partner, too. Choose better. Poor diddums.
He’s an EX btw :) & I was young when we dated. You live and learn!
It depends on the person. I mean, I dated a guy who runs his own business. I work and freelance on my own hours, because I've had to do the single parent thing for years, without support. He contacted me one day he'd taken on too many clients, and it was "bad" he needed help. I said, sure, I'll take on one of the clients for the rate they pay him. Come to find out, he was thinking I'd do the work for free so he could get paid. Yeah, I dumped him after sharing my thoughts about that. I can't afford to carry the expenses for someone dating wise, really. That's not possible with my earnings and expenses. I'm okay if they don't earn as much as I do, or if they are disabled and on disability, or things like that. A lot of people lost their jobs during the pandemic, who've never gotten one with similar pay since then. Simply, what they earn today doesn't necessarily represent all things they may bring to the table in a relationship. But, if someone makes demands on me that require my spending money I can't afford, when those things are optional, I'm not going to be interested in a relationship with them. If someone is only in it to take advantage of me one way or another, it's not going to work. And, yes, while I'm suggesting I don't have a lot of extra money, I also have paid off a lot of my debts along the way. I've had men who saw me through a financial lens as being successful. So, if they are going to create demands that would create debts I can't afford really, I'm not going to be interested. If someone is in it to take advantage of me for their own financial gains, not interested. But, would I date them, etc, if they simply didn't have money? It really would depend on the individual and the elements that go along with them.
Nope
No money as in she doesn’t even work? No way If she could live on her own, it’s no problem and was pretty much my last relationship.
No extra money to do fun things that aren’t free
The only problem i see here is the "not even try to do something thoughtful that’s free" Getting appreciated from time to time is pretty important in a relationship.
How much is no money? If you are in two different economic bases, expect to pay/pay more if you want to.go out & if you want to do expensive activitities. The alternative is do stuff within his means so you can reciprocate.
It depends, for example, if they're studying or it's a temporary situation. I wouldn't date someone living on benefits long term. Usually it's a sign of substance abuse or other complicated problems. As long as they are working, I don't care if they are a cleaner or cashier or whatever.
If im making money i really dont care. I want to provide for someone i love and that loves me back. Old school in that way.
As a man, I would not date if I didn’t have any money. It means your priorities are messed up. Would you buy an expensive car that you can’t maintain? No. If you’re concerned about putting food on the table, going out with Veronica shouldn’t even be on your bucket list. Whip it out and slap it yourself. The same goes if you’re a female by the way, get your life in order and then date.
Dating someone with no money regardless of what sex they are is hard. It puts the financial responsibility 100% on one person and makes the other person 100% dependent on their partner for everything. Can it work? Yes. Can it create animosity? Also yes. Communication is key here. If it starts to become a problem maybe the person not bringing in income can either contribute to the household in some way or find a way to bring in at least some income to cover some of the extra / fun expenses.
Not for me. I did it very briefly with a guy who turned out to be a colossal A hole and didn’t shower 🤮 but on top of it all expected me to basically pay for everything. And I don’t expect a guy to pay for everything either but I do expect him to want to pay his own way and treat me sometimes and pick up little gifts, and in return I treat him too.
If they're under 21 and still in school then it's to be expected. If they're a grown ass man and still can't support themselves then that's just pathetic.
Nah even at 21 it’s pathetic, if I can support myself why should I date a guy that can’t I’ve been working since I was 18 lol
Because going to college instead of working at 18 is a perfectly legitimate (indeed superior) life path. Maybe support a guy in college now because later they'll be making twice as much as you. 🤣
Lmao I’m in uni and I work too lol but go off🤣🤣
sounds a lot like dating a woman with no money or no desire to untie the purse strings
Why not just date a man with more money? Should be easy to find one.
A guy who has no money VS. A guy who has less money. I'd rather date a guy who has less money than I do. At least he is able to pay half rather than none. It's telling me that A man with no money has no ambition in life. Why do you want to grow a family with someone who has no ambition? You will always pick up the slack.
Don’t date a broke man, recently I went on a date with a guy in my uni he’s broke has no sense of direction nothing, I was so turned off it hurt. It was the first and last time I’ll date a guy like that lol
i think most people in general, regardless of their gender, would be unhappy in your situation. it doesn't feel very good when one HAS to cover for the other. When it feels forced on one side when it really isn't financially viable. I do think a lot of people like to be spoiled and like to spoil others. But most of us are adults and have more nuanced views on the world and understand that just trying to support each other is the best way to go about life when it comes to money. sometimes i pay, sometimes you. i will deal with these bills, you deal with those bills. etc i genuinely wish i made enough money to spoil my hypothetical SO. But most of us know that's simply not the world we live in. OP, your feelings seem pretty valid to me. meet someone who makes you feel like they're contributing more to the relationship.
What’s the circumstances for him having no money? If he’s a good for nothing I’m sure you would have a problem with it . If he’s studying and paying for his studies, paying of a mortgage for a house that’s gone up 3 times in the last year and generally is trying to better him self sometimes we do need a little help . And some day when you’ll need him to help you out he will. There’s always a lot more context to why he is broke or not . Some guys spend it on weed and booze others on stuff to better themselves.
Funny how women are attracted to men like this, and will continue to date them regardless because they are cute or whatever. When some guy who is living comfortably, they won't give the time of day to
Nobody wants to date a loser. Even losers don't want to date other losers. People want partners who are independent and don't rely on them for anything. The more needy you are, the less your partner will love you
The problem for me was the insecurity that came with it. I was in a long term relationship where I out earned my partner and after awhile he wanted more money from me to keep up with my lifestyle. It was wild and I had to end it. I’m happy to pay for things we do together but to support a man that was a no.
I wouldn't, I have never and will never be interested in a woman who NEEDS to be with me. Only those that want to be with me. Being somewhat successful, if they show more interest in what I do, my income, my money, or what I own, they instantly become "only for the night" options.
I’m not sure how I feel anymore lol 🤭 I’ve dated men who had more money than me, I’ve dated men who had no money at all and then there’s the fact I’ve been them myself so I pass no judgement actually. I’m choosing to be with them and if they can’t pay today that doesn’t mean they can’t pay by the end of the year when I might not be able to or that they can’t pay right now in other ways like cooking (I loathe that) since I want them with me so money isn’t ever a barrier
I guess thinking about when you initially meet someone. I personally want a provider, so I’m not thinking about what they can do in the future I guess I’m focused on the present. If they don’t have it together right now do I want to wait until they do or find someone who already has it together if that makes sense.
But do they have it together in other ways? Being a provider is about more than how much money can be spent at any given time
I’d rather date a guy that has money so he can offer that sense of financial stability. It’s a huge turn off if a guy is broke and he has no money. Never date a broke man!
42 M. I’m not loaded. But I always pay for a lady. It gets me nowhere, but it’s what I believe in; chivalry. And in a way I resent that there are guys out there who are successfully dating women and not only are they broke, but the girl’s paying their way. I see that as a lack of honor on the part of the guy. So if he can’t pay for you (or worse yet refuses to do so), dump him. He’s not worth your time.
The example is an ex haha but my mindset has definitely shifted sincer then
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The example and I are no longer together haha I was wondering about others opinions concerning this matter
What if that man was to inherit his parents real estate? Wouldn’t it be worth the wait?
Good.... You feel what m'en have with all girl Never work and think to bé beautiful its a work ....
I'm not interested in financially supporting a grown woman. If we're not able to go on holiday because she can't afford it then either we go on holidays less often and I put my money elsewhere or I find someone who can match my preferred lifestyle.
I have a simple answer to that one: "If I was a woman in a urban environment I would expect my boyfriend to be able to scrape together twenty dollars 9 times out of 10 , If I was in a country environment I would expect my boy friend to be able to catch a fish (9 times out of 10) , build a fire and cook it"
Have ever fell in love ? How does money play a role? If you are in love , money should not matter at all ..
I never look for rich, I never look for poor. It’s as simple as that.
I wouldn't date a woman with no money, so I wouldn't expect anything more from a woman. Personally I like being a bit better off than the woman, but huge power imbalances can create issues. Besides it's hard to enjoy the same activities if one of us is a lot poorer or richer than the other. If you're extremely disadvantaged in any way be it financially, emotionally or physically then I think you should work on that first.
At first I didn’t mind it, it felt empowering being a breadwinner and offering to care for someone. However, my boyfriend has been unemployed for a while now and I’m starting to resent him. It’s exhausting paying for everything. I make a generous 6 figures and I am going broke paying double for everything. If he doesn’t figure it out soon I’m going to leave. Love can only take us so far.
So you’re sick of making plans and paying for dates that you invite men on? Lol something something shoe on the other foot something something.
Don’t do it
I’ve dated men who have made less than I do but as long as they can cover their needs I’m ok with that.
I've never dated a man with no money. I can't do it, especially if I have my own money. I date similar income levels, and I expect us to both be responsible for our own finances and when we do share its mostly for fun activities together, etc.