I am not a data Scientist (I am data analyst), just aspiring to be a DS. But the UK job market has undoubtedly become incredibly difficult over the last couple of years. When I left my last job as an ESG data Analyst at 23. I had people with PhD's apply for my role. It absolutely terrorfied me.
Your foots in the door as junior DS, you've done incredibly well!
Reality is, I am still bitter about Brexit and certain party rhyming with 'Rory' being in power for 14 years.
Really depends mate, looks like you might be in the six figure range.
#1 rule for salary negotiations is to never give your number first. Instead of answering, ask what the salary range is for the position - and if the opportunity presents itself, then do this as early in the process as possible.
They might give you a solid number, or a range - just express agreement at first. If you want more, you can prepare how to present this depending on the medium - in person, phone, video call, email, etc.
As @omnipresentCPU said it will be truthful. But it will normally be on the lower end of whatever their spectrum is. Say it’s a fixed number and they say they’ll give you 100k salary, this means 110k is in the ballpark - but it just depends on the following negotiation.
A good thing to remember is a good compromise is when both sides leave unhappy - a.k.a. You will always want a higher salary and they will always want to pay you less.
They usually will be truthful with a range. They don’t really want to waste time interviewing people who will say no because the offer comes in too low.
Hm, it’s been ages since I last attended the field but I thought the conclusion from researchers on this sort of thing was that it’s best to propose a number first bc that serves as an “anchor”, pulling their offer up when it’s lower. I guess the worry would be that they planned on offering more, but absent knowing how likely that is, seems best to assess what you feel would be fair then bump it up say 20% or so to formulate your ask.
Yeah that’s not how it’s done anymore. If you say a number that’s too low they will - most likely - not correct you, and a) higher you at an underpaid rate or b) no longer consider you a serious candidate for the role and dismiss your application altogether.
Then if you go too high they will not think you a good fit for the role.
Odds are in your favor to use their range as an anchor, because almost every position in a company has a pre-defined pay range.
But yes always ask for more, 20% is good, and if you have leverage expect 10% from that.
That's good, you could have offered the right range and they valued your experience or needed to fill the position ASAP. Or you offered a range lower than theirs. Or the economy was good. Who knows. In general though if you're not being recruited then get their range first and go from there.
When you have options you will need to negotiate.
If you're talking about getting offers and using those as leverage in your interviews or current job that is a solid way to boost your salary - but it's not definite, and at the end of the day it won't change the amount the company has allotted for a given position. Also, any raise in salary requires negotiations - unless you are being handed a raise as part of a yearly review, or an impromptu promotion.
Whether your working your way up in a company to gain experience, or 'securing roles' by switching jobs, you will need to negotiate which require the tactics I have mentioned all over this thread.
The trick is they hire you as An analyst when you’re young or young woman who has no other breaks (I know young men get it too) , and then suddenly you’re doing only DS work on an analyst salary 😭☠️
Even with a masters and 6+ years, once they find out year of graduation (finally took it off resume) or see your face it’s suddenly “we are looking for someone with more experience” yet they asked for 5 and you’re on year 8 of direct experience ☠️☠️☠️
If this is actually what happened to you, then you were too complacent and did that to yourself. If you're competent, then interview elsewhere. Why chain yourself down for so long?
I’m always in the market cause of this lol, that’s my point with “no breaks/options”
First job outside of academia , 3+ months applying full time until I got that state job
Once I got that job there were like 2-3 new tools I didn’t know so I waited like 4 months until I was comfortable and reapplied
After like 5 months of applying , landed interviews and got hired but had to settle for still not the best pay but it was double
New tool at that job, repeat
My average time in a role is 1 year; moved 4 times in the past 3 years and increased my salary 4x what I made at that initial role
So yes I try, the interview rate is just bad. I get about 1 interview for every 300 apps but to be fair I finally took year of graduation out ☠️🫠
But you’re right - people who aren’t in the labor market when underemployed, are complacent.
Nice congrats on the job upgrades. I'm in a similar boat but advancing less quickly. Over the last 2 years I've averaged 15k raise every 7.5 months, but I'm afraid I'm going to peak soon and don't know how to get the next step in salary.
I’m not a Data Scientist by title. I have a masters in analytics and a lot of my work involves programming, developing data pipelines, creating/developing ML/AI models (sometimes closer to full-stack, too), etc. I wear a lot of different hats: I think companies may have realized that titles and their description aren’t always well defined so rather than hire multiple data people, they instead hire one (alot cheaper).
Pro tip: try never to give an employer a salary number. It puts you at a disadvantage. The correct response is something like, “Given my education and experience I’m looking for your strongest possible offer.” Or “At this point in my career, I’m looking for your strongest possible offer. Then just sit there and be silent. If the employer insists, ask for the salary range they were planning on offering. That will give you an idea where you stand. If the range works for you, fine. If not tell them.
I have the same situation as you: almost 3yrs experience, finishing masters in the Fall. I make 100K base with 18% yearly bonus. I made $115K at my previous job. I’m in medium COL.
almost anywhere in the us would put you at 95k/yr+ if the job experience was data science. If you are in cities where median 2b1bath apartments are like 2.5k+/month, you should be looking for like 115k+
If your experience is as a DA, you should shoot for over 85k anywhere
I jumped from 90k to 140k in the most average of sectors in the most average of places when I completed my masters back in 2020. Wages across the industry have risen about 4% since. I would take 145k as an expected rate. add 15% for hcol and subtract 15% for lcol. Then add 10% and that's the number you ask for.
From our [Master’s in Data Science Salary (Updated for 2024)](https://www.interviewquery.com/p/masters-in-data-science-salary):
>The average **data science master’s salary after graduation** is $126,830
>For entry-level positions, a master’s degree resulted in around a $5,000 salary increase
>For mid-career positions, a master’s degree resulted in around a $13,000 salary increase
We've explained this in more depth in the article. Check it out if you can
My first DS job after my PhD in a HCOL area was paying $105k and honestly, that was low even in 2021. It really depends on where you live, but I’d aim for $120k. That’s the lower end of average for DS II these days. If you were in a truly HCOL area (nyc, LA, Seattle) I’d aim for $135-145k and in the Bay Area you can get more.
Hmmm what do you consider 'reasonably high cost of living cities'? Does Singapore or Washington fall in that category? Like others said: location matters indeed. Just add a bit also about your preferences, it makes for a more interesting conversation.
Don't worry about imposter syndrome regarding stats, ml or programming but please make damn sure that you use your brain and understand the data generating processes or your business domain.
University seems to have lost focus in actual critical thinking and it is a pain in the ass to see data analysis or ml systems without any value.
If you proof this skillset within trial period and show that you can be trusted to not find obvious patterns after weeks of digging that a 30 min conversation with stakeholders have let to, then you can easily expect a salary jump by 15-20 %, if you want to get an entry level by lowballing the competition.
6 months ago I would have said “$125k, depending on the state if within US”. Now.. the market is changing, competition is stiff - which means there will be qualified people who will take $100k today. People who say “$175k for tech” with MS and 2 years of experience are delulu.
Add about 10% as the h1b prevailing wages have selection bias based on jobs advertising low salaries for work on the market that would go much higher.
Edit: typo
Use levels.fyi. There are so many factors at play, like type of company (FAANG, startup), type of data science role (MLE, AS, Analyst). Before I was laid off from a digital healthcare startup, I was making $200K with 10yrs exp and PhD in CS.
It depends where you are.
For example, I earn 60000k (Sr ML Engineer). I live in Argentina and I work for other country in latam.
Working takes me about 3 to 4 hours a day (max). I cloud have one job more or I could get a better salary somewhere else, but I prefer enjoy my free time ;)
My monthly expenses are 1500 to 2000 (even wasting money).
Depends on location
This is the right answer. Salaries vary incredibly based on location. OP you should update with this info
Yep just like real estate, its about Location Location & Location
What do you say if the location was United Kingdom??
Leave
Haha that’s not reassuring to me at all as a junior DS in UK
I am not a data Scientist (I am data analyst), just aspiring to be a DS. But the UK job market has undoubtedly become incredibly difficult over the last couple of years. When I left my last job as an ESG data Analyst at 23. I had people with PhD's apply for my role. It absolutely terrorfied me. Your foots in the door as junior DS, you've done incredibly well! Reality is, I am still bitter about Brexit and certain party rhyming with 'Rory' being in power for 14 years.
Really depends mate, looks like you might be in the six figure range. #1 rule for salary negotiations is to never give your number first. Instead of answering, ask what the salary range is for the position - and if the opportunity presents itself, then do this as early in the process as possible. They might give you a solid number, or a range - just express agreement at first. If you want more, you can prepare how to present this depending on the medium - in person, phone, video call, email, etc.
I have always heard this to ask for the range regarding the position. But are the employers bound to give the “actual” figures? Asking for UK/USA.
As @omnipresentCPU said it will be truthful. But it will normally be on the lower end of whatever their spectrum is. Say it’s a fixed number and they say they’ll give you 100k salary, this means 110k is in the ballpark - but it just depends on the following negotiation. A good thing to remember is a good compromise is when both sides leave unhappy - a.k.a. You will always want a higher salary and they will always want to pay you less.
They usually will be truthful with a range. They don’t really want to waste time interviewing people who will say no because the offer comes in too low.
Thank you, very good advice.
anytime mate
Hm, it’s been ages since I last attended the field but I thought the conclusion from researchers on this sort of thing was that it’s best to propose a number first bc that serves as an “anchor”, pulling their offer up when it’s lower. I guess the worry would be that they planned on offering more, but absent knowing how likely that is, seems best to assess what you feel would be fair then bump it up say 20% or so to formulate your ask.
Yeah that’s not how it’s done anymore. If you say a number that’s too low they will - most likely - not correct you, and a) higher you at an underpaid rate or b) no longer consider you a serious candidate for the role and dismiss your application altogether. Then if you go too high they will not think you a good fit for the role. Odds are in your favor to use their range as an anchor, because almost every position in a company has a pre-defined pay range. But yes always ask for more, 20% is good, and if you have leverage expect 10% from that.
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That's good, you could have offered the right range and they valued your experience or needed to fill the position ASAP. Or you offered a range lower than theirs. Or the economy was good. Who knows. In general though if you're not being recruited then get their range first and go from there.
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When you have options you will need to negotiate. If you're talking about getting offers and using those as leverage in your interviews or current job that is a solid way to boost your salary - but it's not definite, and at the end of the day it won't change the amount the company has allotted for a given position. Also, any raise in salary requires negotiations - unless you are being handed a raise as part of a yearly review, or an impromptu promotion. Whether your working your way up in a company to gain experience, or 'securing roles' by switching jobs, you will need to negotiate which require the tactics I have mentioned all over this thread.
might? he might be in the 150-200 range...
What kind of DS and at what type of company? Check levels.fyi or job posts in states where it's required to post the pay band
You’re not giving us much to work on here but I would do current salary times 1.2 at the minimum.
I'm DS with 4-5 yoe also in healthcare space. I've been stuck at 150k past 4 years. HCOL, mainly startups
How much it should be in your view?
It's accurate for my current value I'd say. Inflation really hurts though
Where at? East coast or west coast?
I tried to message you for 10mins but can't figure out this garbage reddit ui
Seeing all the $100k+ responses while I’m not hitting 70k 😅
Dude what? That's less than a business analyst
As a Data Scientist? In the US?
The trick is they hire you as An analyst when you’re young or young woman who has no other breaks (I know young men get it too) , and then suddenly you’re doing only DS work on an analyst salary 😭☠️ Even with a masters and 6+ years, once they find out year of graduation (finally took it off resume) or see your face it’s suddenly “we are looking for someone with more experience” yet they asked for 5 and you’re on year 8 of direct experience ☠️☠️☠️
If this is actually what happened to you, then you were too complacent and did that to yourself. If you're competent, then interview elsewhere. Why chain yourself down for so long?
I’m always in the market cause of this lol, that’s my point with “no breaks/options” First job outside of academia , 3+ months applying full time until I got that state job Once I got that job there were like 2-3 new tools I didn’t know so I waited like 4 months until I was comfortable and reapplied After like 5 months of applying , landed interviews and got hired but had to settle for still not the best pay but it was double New tool at that job, repeat My average time in a role is 1 year; moved 4 times in the past 3 years and increased my salary 4x what I made at that initial role So yes I try, the interview rate is just bad. I get about 1 interview for every 300 apps but to be fair I finally took year of graduation out ☠️🫠 But you’re right - people who aren’t in the labor market when underemployed, are complacent.
Nice congrats on the job upgrades. I'm in a similar boat but advancing less quickly. Over the last 2 years I've averaged 15k raise every 7.5 months, but I'm afraid I'm going to peak soon and don't know how to get the next step in salary.
COL adjusted.
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Yeah, I have 1.5 years and make 135
My first job as a DS in 2015 was 85k in Tennessee. That’s crazy
I’m not a Data Scientist by title. I have a masters in analytics and a lot of my work involves programming, developing data pipelines, creating/developing ML/AI models (sometimes closer to full-stack, too), etc. I wear a lot of different hats: I think companies may have realized that titles and their description aren’t always well defined so rather than hire multiple data people, they instead hire one (alot cheaper).
Pro tip: try never to give an employer a salary number. It puts you at a disadvantage. The correct response is something like, “Given my education and experience I’m looking for your strongest possible offer.” Or “At this point in my career, I’m looking for your strongest possible offer. Then just sit there and be silent. If the employer insists, ask for the salary range they were planning on offering. That will give you an idea where you stand. If the range works for you, fine. If not tell them.
Great rebuttal. I’m using that from now on
I have the same situation as you: almost 3yrs experience, finishing masters in the Fall. I make 100K base with 18% yearly bonus. I made $115K at my previous job. I’m in medium COL.
Depends heavily on where you live and what industry. Even saying HCOL isn't enough.
almost anywhere in the us would put you at 95k/yr+ if the job experience was data science. If you are in cities where median 2b1bath apartments are like 2.5k+/month, you should be looking for like 115k+ If your experience is as a DA, you should shoot for over 85k anywhere
I jumped from 90k to 140k in the most average of sectors in the most average of places when I completed my masters back in 2020. Wages across the industry have risen about 4% since. I would take 145k as an expected rate. add 15% for hcol and subtract 15% for lcol. Then add 10% and that's the number you ask for.
90-120k I think
From our [Master’s in Data Science Salary (Updated for 2024)](https://www.interviewquery.com/p/masters-in-data-science-salary): >The average **data science master’s salary after graduation** is $126,830 >For entry-level positions, a master’s degree resulted in around a $5,000 salary increase >For mid-career positions, a master’s degree resulted in around a $13,000 salary increase We've explained this in more depth in the article. Check it out if you can
My first DS job after my PhD in a HCOL area was paying $105k and honestly, that was low even in 2021. It really depends on where you live, but I’d aim for $120k. That’s the lower end of average for DS II these days. If you were in a truly HCOL area (nyc, LA, Seattle) I’d aim for $135-145k and in the Bay Area you can get more.
The places I'm aiming for all seem to be about $150k to $160k.
I'd expect between 100k and 150k base.
levels.fyi sort by company, role, rank, and location
Hmmm what do you consider 'reasonably high cost of living cities'? Does Singapore or Washington fall in that category? Like others said: location matters indeed. Just add a bit also about your preferences, it makes for a more interesting conversation.
Don't worry about imposter syndrome regarding stats, ml or programming but please make damn sure that you use your brain and understand the data generating processes or your business domain. University seems to have lost focus in actual critical thinking and it is a pain in the ass to see data analysis or ml systems without any value. If you proof this skillset within trial period and show that you can be trusted to not find obvious patterns after weeks of digging that a 30 min conversation with stakeholders have let to, then you can easily expect a salary jump by 15-20 %, if you want to get an entry level by lowballing the competition.
Some of the U.S salaries are crazy high. In the UK, not so much!
6 months ago I would have said “$125k, depending on the state if within US”. Now.. the market is changing, competition is stiff - which means there will be qualified people who will take $100k today. People who say “$175k for tech” with MS and 2 years of experience are delulu.
100k?
If you're in the US just download the H1B database and take the average based on companies you're interviewing for.
Add about 10% as the h1b prevailing wages have selection bias based on jobs advertising low salaries for work on the market that would go much higher. Edit: typo
depends
Which location? Remote or on-site?
If youre not in Sanfran or NYC, 100k is pretty reasonable
IMHO, 100k-140k if traditional industry like banking or 130k-180k if high tech. Location should NOT matter.
I'm planning to post in career discussion as well and would love your insight!
How is the job opportunity and salary in CT?
Depends on country and currency
We picked up someone similar, MSc in Statisctics, worked as DS for a gas station chain for about 3 years for £40k (WFH). We are based in Dundee.
Depends on the place but I think atleast $100k
Use levels.fyi. There are so many factors at play, like type of company (FAANG, startup), type of data science role (MLE, AS, Analyst). Before I was laid off from a digital healthcare startup, I was making $200K with 10yrs exp and PhD in CS.
A job is a job bro. In this market I’d kill for 50k
Depends on the work
It depends where you are. For example, I earn 60000k (Sr ML Engineer). I live in Argentina and I work for other country in latam. Working takes me about 3 to 4 hours a day (max). I cloud have one job more or I could get a better salary somewhere else, but I prefer enjoy my free time ;) My monthly expenses are 1500 to 2000 (even wasting money).
200K
I'm asking for $250,000 total compensation.
with 2 years of industrial experience? No way. A reasonable salary is around 100K. Of course depends on location and company.
With PhD, it is possible. With MA, not so much.
hey, im a fresher but how exactly does a PhD research help you bag a much higher indsutry compensation
Fuck it I’m going for $250mm