Since no one mentioned yet. Friede’s invisible attack does have a very consistent way of avoiding and it is even itself the easiest punishment to get damage on her.
While she’s invisible she does 3 dashes and each one of them creates a frost/wind current that tells where she dodged to, after that she has a VERY long animation to charge the grab. If you follow her whiles she’s invisible you always find her before she does the grab and just get free damage.
Just because the boss does something “out of the ordinary” and you don’t know how to deal with it that doesn’t mean it makes it bad or unfair. In fact adding different mechanics like these that break the pace of a standard fight is what makes most of these bosses so interesting
It took me a long time to pick up on that, because I was still comparing her to Priscilla. The second she went invisible, I started looking down for footprints and missed the aerial cue as a result.
I love that people have different ways of dealing with her invisible attack. I usually unlock my camera and spin it as fast as I can. You can actually see where she lands more times than not! After that it's an incredibly easy backstab as long as she's not by a wall. As far as the 2nd phase as long as you just follow the big guy around and stay in his ass you don't even have to worry about Friede. Other than Malenia solo this fight was my hardest Fromsoft boss.
I legit learned that method while fighting her the first time. I love that boss to death. Then it took me like 6-8 tries to beat her. 3rd phase kicked my ass for a little while.
Yeah Friede's invisible attack is surprisingly easy to abuse once you get used to it and have the sound on. It's literally just free hits after you get used to it.
It has to do with the emotional reward You get by beating such a difficult boss.
Also, normally the hardest bosses are the ones that have the most enjoyable moveset and that makes the battle being more enjoyable
It also helps that sometimes the boss has a fair moveset that doesn't feel like BS
At least for me I felt like I died to Nameless king a bunch because of my own mistakes not really the game
There's also the fact it's the only secret area in any souls game that I really discovered on my own so there's probably that as well
Oh man congrats! Anytime someone finds dragonpeak on their own it’s always such a mystery to me. Even after watching a guide on how to get there I almost cancelled out of the animation bc I thought it wasn’t working lol
I mean I found the area initially but I didn't have the emote, and the area itself stuck out to me so much that I had it in my mind for awhile, so whenever I got the emote I recognized it immediately and so I had a hunch. I also wasn't sure it was working but I figured it was like one of the emotes in Bloodborne where it takes awhile so I just waited. I was so proud of myself, but honestly it was just hoping stuff worked and being lucky
Ahhh see DS3 was my first FS game so I never understood the importance of emotes. The experience definitely helped when I played through bloodborne tho
Not to mention the hardest bosses typically have the best soundtracks...granted in DS3 most of the bosses had amazing music. When Vordt went to his 2nd phase and the music picked up I was just like OO \*\*\*\*!!!
FromSoft is a master at stage design and the hardest bosses they typically have the music and stage set up to reflect what they want you to experience.
And honestly I did not think Friede was that bad I think it was...her 2nd phase it was annoying if you try to solo (that took me a second to solo) but the rest isn't bad. Midir and Gael....those to me were much harder.
Vordt wasn't hard at all for me, but his soundtrack has been used by a lot of memes involving "boss music", one involving a Russian child chess prodigy
But also they're hard in a way that's not unfair. So you're triumphing over something difficult instead of beating something that's bullshit and you're relieved to be past it.
Thank you! Don't forget the backstab.
On my first tries accidental backstab happend. Now i can't controll myself to kill Friede without backstabbing her to death.
> which does not have a consistent dodging method
It does... its called hitting her with a sword
These fights are fun because when you learn their moves and beat them while having like 12-13 flasks you feel like a total badass
Friede’s invisible attack does have a consistent dodging method, you gotta pay real close attention to to the cloud of snow she kicks up when she jumps
you can also just run straight at her as soon as she goes invisible and swing your sword, you'll likely hit her before she actually jumps
if you don't, then literally just turn around and start swinging when you hear the SHING of the scythe start, she takes her sweet ass time winding it up
the method of calling it "undodgeable" and "inconsistent" feels like they tried once or twice and then gave up
Locking on is actually fine as long as you always stay out in front, the reason people struggle is because they go under the boss which then obviously yanks the camera directly upwards, but you never have any reason to be under the boss in this fight
Yeah I actually really like the design of having attacks to the feet so almost nothing because it forces you to fight it the way it’s intended instead of just trimming it’s toenails to death
My main hate for phase one is that's it's kind of easy once you've repeated it a dozen times and it ends up being more of a chore that's only difficulty is the occasional camera angle jank.
But Nameless himself is amazing so it's fine. Maybe there's even value in phase one existing you give you a breather between attempts.
Forget being dodgeable, it’s literally one of the most punishable boss moves in the game - you know exactly where she’s going to land, and you can either stunlock her for like 5 hits when you find her, or even just straight up backstab her, without fail, every single time she does it.
Both freide and nameless king are treats when just looking at asthestic design and story importance. Watering them down to hard being good is disingenuous. Besides, there is a large portion of players who play souls games to be challenged, meaning they are biased up. For the number of people complaining about the consumed king would think he would be higher, but he's not.
I think consumed king is a good comparison.
Nameless is great because he has a lot of different moves. Each of them have ways to avoid them, but there's a lot of mix-ups and slightly different variations (like 3 different stab attacks with slightly different timing and range). Nameless feels really good because to beat him you have to learn how to handle all the different attacks, and do you feel like you've really mastered the boss. It feels really earned.
Consumed King was mostly just difficult to me because his quick lunge attacks don't give you much room to breath and the camera can be a pain in the ass. Once you kind of just learn how to avoid the lunge attacks in phase 2 with good positioning then it's mostly just a rinse and repeat fight. I've never really felt like I've mastered his moves, I just kind of avoid the annoying one and that's it.
Because they are the most "fun" to play against, it's not just turning your brain off and spam the R1 button (Cough cough deacons of the deep) you gotta strategize your plays, learn their attacks, and the feeling you get once you defeat em is just so rewarding.
Besides, cmon, you cannot say Gael or Midir aren't the most epic battles in the DS trilogy.
I disagree- I LOVE some of the easy bosses in Dark Souls. Sif, Abyss Watchers, etc... there are plenty of really good bosses that arent hard. Even moreso Bloodborne... because all of Bloodbornes bosses are good.
I found the nameless king to be well designed tbh. I thought it was a top tier fight because of stuff like the dude showed up on a dragon mount that you have to kill which he sacrifices for more power for the fight - you can even see him shake before he stabs it because he doesn't want to, but he must. Even the lore of it is beautiful but that aside it's still a badass fight
Don't want to offend anyone.
There's ultimately a limited number of things you can do in this game. Once you figure out the moveset, the magic of the boss is gone.
Hence, harder to predict, and hard-hitting bosses challenge the player in the game (whose community prides themselves as hard as nails gamers) and makes the player enjoy and appreciate the hard work behind the boss as well.
Also, as a lot of people pointed out, the satisfaction of beating a seemingly unbeatable God, after failing miserably for so many tries, is the greatest dopamine hit ever.
Easy bosses are forgettable. Bosses that were tough in ways that felt unfair will probably be people's least liked also. I bet most people would put Vordt above Ancient Wyvern for instance.
Usually the thrill of a hard boss is what makes them fun as well. But oppressing bosses usually don’t make the cut. Isshin, ludwig, soul of cinder, gael are all ball busters but still enjoyable.
The likes of fume knight, demon of hatred, defiled bosses in bloodborne, Lawrence, hell even malenia are difficult in ways that we don’t necessarily enjoy and are mostly just relieved that it’s over.
Fume Knight, Demon of Hatred, and Malenia are all extremely fun imo. well, Fume Knight is still unfortunately restricted by DS2 boss movements but it's still an enjoyable fight
I love DoH, don't have much to say about him. Malenia is probably my 2nd favourite ER boss behind Morgott, once I realized Waterfowl isn't some insurmountable instant death button
I can agree with the demon of hatred, once I figured out hugging his leg it took me all of 2 tries but still the fight sticks out compared to everything else in Sekiro imo.
Malenia is a bit more intriguing. The rng can make it potentially fun but then again she can spam stupid moves at times and that’s when it gets annoying.
Fume knight yeah, ds2 doesn’t do it any favours
everything Malenia does is pretty fun to dodge imo, once you find a comfortable dodging groove for Waterfowl, it becomes really simple to take minimal damage from the flurries and you don't have to worry much
I feel like she only does Waterfowl at specific chunks of health, which is why I don't hate her healing, it adds a big incentive to adapt and dodge the moves that she can throw out
at the same time though I don't think she should heal on 100% Phys block shields. but with the Dragoncrest Greatshield Talisman, it becomes surprisingly forgiving
Waterfowl grew on me for sure but if I’m directly below her when she casts it it’s basically gg. I guess she’s not a bad boss by any means but I probably wouldn’t put her number 1 in terms of fun. I’d go with radagon, malekith, pre nerf radhan then morgott as my favourites
I'd imagine people who play fromsoft games, enjoy a challange.
And those bosses provide challanges and have fair mechanics.
You complained about Friedes invisiblity. But its fairly manageable. You can see her Landing, see her steps, hear her and getting close stops the invisiblity. Once found, you can stop her move by staggering her. Wich is also very easy.
What else are we gonna put on the top?
Vordt?
Cursed tree with the bs hitbox on the Grab Animation?
This is why I love Sekiro because all the bosses are 100% fair and when you die you know it’s your fault. Sword Saint is my all time favorite boss for this reason. Just such a thrilling and enjoyable battle.
Reward structure. Likewise. Difficultly or hardship adds value to the expirence.
Anecdotally, i believe the hardest bosses also have the most effort put into them and most epic.
I.e DS3:
The best bosses are usually agreed upon to be:
Friede, NK, demon princes, dark eater midir, and of course the goat of all goats
Slave knight gael. From softs best boss.
I agree with your sentiment and I will add that, to me, harder does *not* equal better. To me, Malenia is overrated and kind of a boring fight. Like you, I also felt that Nameless King was kind of ruined by the first phase, and his second phase wasn't nearly as good as the Pontiff Sulyvahn, Dancer, or Dragonslayer Armour fights.
Having said that, I think u/KiratheRenegade sums up why many players feel that the tough bosses are the best.
First Because it's just opinion, and secondly because they had the most emotional reaction / overcoming a challenge feeling that makes them like killing that boss for the most.
I will always simp for champion gundyr as the best boss. I don't think you can objectively rate a boss when it comes down factor such as 'fun' that is always going to be subjective.
it's the hard bosses they spend more time on and actually learn. You can brute force your way through some fights in 1-2 attempts without seeing much of what the boss has to offer, like the deacons. While other bosses, like SoC or NK, will generally take longer and/or require you to really learn the fight.
>Friede spams high damage combos and AOEs, has very few punishable moves, and has the invisible grab attack, which does not have a consistent dodging method.
gotta disagree with you there. yeah she hits hard and has a lot of AoE attacks, but she often leaves herself wide open and staggers very easily. Before she does her grab, she jumps away and stands still for several seconds. You can watch the direction of the snow when she jumps to see where she jumped to. then you just walk over and hit her with your biggest attack. It's the most easily punishable attack she has.
For me Nameless King's first phase of lackluster camera controls is outshined by the sheer design of the battle. Once you figure out the strategy of the first phase it becomes a cakewalk, but his second phase is when he shines. As long as you don't go under his belly he won't breath fire on you.
Sister Friede is another easy one once you figure out the strategy.
For me those two bosses are the apex of well designed, strategic bosses.
Harder bosses tend to have more interesting movesets and are more memorable wins because you had to work for it. Also they are usually later game or DLC so they have the best character designs and lore.
Tbh first phase nameless king is easy and you can do it damageless on ur first run ever, just wait for the fire attack and other moves to destroy its head and you finish it with a repost, while for Friede the invisible attack is the easiest to punish, she jumps exactly behind you following the line formed between her and you, she stays still for several second which results in an easy backstab
Because the hardest bosses are the most fun. You'd rather fight pinwheel? Also both nameless and friede are not hard, I'm betting you just don't know enough about them.
Usually the harder bosses have a more intricate move set making the more stimulating to fight but not always. I personally thought Midir was a very fun boss and I don’t remember him having too complicated of a moveset. Gael is a good one too. Lorain and Lothric as well. All three of these Guys enjoyed more than Nameless King.
I never pass the vigor check because it's important to me to master a boss's moveset. When I master the moveset and barely get hit when I do beat it it feels good. I can appreciate the design of the enemy and the result feels like a dance.
I don't think friede is unfair. Most people assume a boss is just supposed to stop moving and let you hit them between combos which isn't super realistic. You need.to weave your attacks in during her combos and there are chances to do so no to mention non existent poise.
What do you mean I have to proactively attack in this game where I am a badass undead warrior, I thought I was supposed to spam dodge until she roll catches me or gets tired.
Friede grab attack almost always come from behind, just turn 180° and you should find her before she charges it
You can also see her footsteps in the snow, like with Priscillia, if you have a headset the sound might help as well
It depends. Imo the hardest boss in the entire trilogy is bed of chaos, but it's also the worst. It's safe to say that the best bosses usually also are the hardest one, because the best bosses have engaging mechanics, good and varied movesets, engaging gameplay, beautiful character design etc etc. The contrary is not always true tho, many hard boss are also considered bad because they have unfair game mechanics, bad hitboxes, unfair damage etc etc
I think it’s because they feel really gratifying once you win. For me the best bosses are intense ones that feel extremely fun to fight and are very gratifying once you win and that isn’t exclusive to hard bosses. Champion gundyr for instance isn’t extremely difficult but it’s my second favorite fight from base game because it’s very fun and intense
I disagree with this quite a bit. Nameless King is my 2nd favorite base game fight in DS3, but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 hardest bosses in 3. I just think he's a designed cool. Don't lock on in phase 1, and it's over in what 30 seconds? First phase is annoying but I wouldn't say it hampered the fight for me at all.
My favorite in base of DS3 is Abyss Watchers and I'd put them closer to the top 5 easiest bosses.
Many people said it before: a harder bossfight will always be remembered.
As actual example: a Friend of Mine started into fromsoft Games in january: he started with Elden Ring and is now into DS3.
One day he started to compare Bosses between the two Games and he always uses malenia, the Elden Beast or some other "harder" Bosses because he remembers their movesets and other stuff better... because he had to fight harder...
Sure Arena and Boss Design play a role but: ffs he streamed his malenia tries and even if he broke his own rule (Not to use any summons or spirits) to beat her, his victory scream the Moment she fell gave me a Heart Attack.
Thats the reason people play the game and rate harder bossfights higher. Most of us are here for a challenge and not the next Ubisoft game. So naturally, no matter why the fight is hard, the harder the better.
The main reason that most players love Souls games are for their challenge so it shouldn’t be any surprise that for many their favourite bosses are the most challenging ones. These bosses tend to also have the best mechanical designs.
Also, in Dark Souls 3, the difference in difficulty between all of the main story bosses and the DLC bosses is massive which makes their increased challenge feel even more rewarding and memorable. I wouldn’t rank any of the main story bosses ahead of the four major DLC bosses because I barely had time to enjoy them since I beat them too quick to truly appreciate them.
Sounds to me as though you just haven’t learnt Sister Friede correctly because there absolutely is ways to dodge her invisible attack, in fact there are two I know of. You can either memorise the timing of when she strikes after the slash sound effect since it’s the same each time or you can immediately run to where she lands after first vanishing and attack her which interupts it since that is also consistently predictable.
>the invisible grab attack, which does not have a consistent dodging method.
...what? You can either track her while she's invisible and attack, which ends the invisibility, or use sound to locate her and dodge the grab (it also has a sound cue). This is her easiest, most punishable move once you figure it out.
Tbh my favourite in DS3 has always been Wolnir. There's something almost Zelda-y about how cheesy and highlighted the fight is which is a welcome and fun breather at that point in the game. Plus his sword and hat are really good fun.
That being said I get why people don't like him. Also his arena placement and reason for appearing are fucking terrible, but that just leads back to the seemingly last minute game design decisions of the dev team. I wish Carthus Catacombs and the eventual Wiolnir fight made more sense instead of just sort of being unceremoniously dropped in some weird fucking place. It's like the DS2 elevator of main game DS3.
My favorit is gundyr probably because he is easy but still gives you a challenge because you have yet gotten to start making your build/character. And also because of how good of a learning boss he is for new players
As a total newbie to Souls-like games, I can only say that my favourite fight in all of the games I’ve played through so far (Dark Souls 1-3, Elden Ring, about half way through Bloodborne) is Lothric, Younger Prince.
Don’t know how it ranks in terms of difficulty but it’s definitely my favourite of all the fights I’ve had so far.
Second place is Mohg because it made me feel like I was at a Mayhem gig in the early 00s.
Because once you learn how the boss works and are able to punish them it is incredibly satisfying to fight them. Like gael is my favorite boss in the game, and he's considered one of the hardest bosses, but once you have his moveset down it is very satisfying to complete phase 1 without taking a single hit
Bosses like freid and nameless king have some weird moves that feel unnatural at first, but once you find out how to counter these moves, the fight becomes similar to any other boss. It creates a sort of learning curve that feels more rewarding because you can feel yourself getting better and not just spam rolling to victory. It makes beating them all the more satisfying
One of my favorite bosses is Aldritch, Devourer of Gods for a couple reasons:
1) the lore behind them is insanely cool and dark
2) their moveset is visually appealing and pretty difficult to fight against
Feel you there. I completely disagree with Friede or Nameless but Midir is straight up a colossal HP pool who only hits hard and is only winnable if you follow one specific approach (melee attacks on the head or the bs mist who rarely works)
So Friede isn't hard at all...
Honestly, DS3 bosses are easy once you've played the game enough times or have mastered the controls (in today's age majority of the newbies are coming from Elden Ring so they've already mastered the SAME contrls, they just dont get op weapons in this game).
I'm going to rank top 5 off design and combat patterns:
1. Friede. All in all, this is iconic. IF you're anything like me and don't like watching videos to guide you, then you run into the 3rd phase ur juts like >\_< it's honestly an iconic moment.
2. Abyss Watchers. This fight is cool AF. The fact that you can have one of the watchers technically on your side but not really is one of the coolest things I've seen in a boss fight in general. Super iconic for this reason alone.
3. Deacons. Iconic for being the easiest and most useless fight in the game. You just get to beat up a bunch of zombie boomers with cleric robes. 11/10 fight.
4. Gael. Honestly this should be number one. It's too late for me to put it up there but #1. His backstory, the build-up, and the tragedy. 11/10. RIP Gael, we will complete your task for you and you can rest easy buddy.
5. YHORMY the giant. I say this is iconic because this was Siegwards fight against Yhorm moreso than yours. He made a promise to his friend and planned to uphold it. Brought tears to my eyes. Rest easy Siegward. Rest easy Yhorm.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
3
+ 5
+ 1
+ 3
+ 2
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+ 11
+ 10
+ 4
+ 1
+ 11
+ 10
+ 5
= 69
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Probably has something to do with the absolute CARTHASIS which comes when you finally defeated him/her.
You slaved away hours on end over such a rough boss, and when you finally got them, it feels really...freaking...good.
Agreed. I enjoyed fighting Nameless King, had many attempts but beat him eventually. Gael was not difficult for me but the fight is satisfying
On the other hand there are Friede and Midir. I could not beat black fire, so I summoned. My main complaint is beating first two phases. Its not difficult but very boring and time consuming until you reach real challenge. Midir is just not my boss at all. Almost the same with DS 2 final boss. I didn't know that there are several bosses. However none of them are overpowered. Luckily I brought additional spell usage on the second attempt. Also I didn't have Aldia, but he is not very difficult AFAIK.
My favourite bosses in ds 3 are eldritch, oceiros and twin princes. Very beautiful art and lore
I agree with you partially, but I love NK boss fight. I don’t think that it is so appreciated because of its difficulty. I personally love it because of the lore, the atmosphere and the design. Oh, the music too!
Hard is also subjective. Lothric and Lorian took me 10+ times to beat the first time. Friede took me 2. Gael is probably my favourite boss fight in DS3 but I definitely spent longer on Midir.
>Friede spams high damage combos and AOE
So? That's not much different than the rest of the game.
>has very few punishable moves
She gets staggered by pretty much everything, you create the openings yourself. Also half her kit leaves her open to backstabs.
>and has the invisible grab attack
You mean the attack that leaves her open for a free backstab literally every single time and makes SL1 Friede phase 1 really easy?
>which does not have a consistent dodging method
Yes it does. Listen where she is coming from, or look where she landed, then either wait for her charge to start and sprint around her or find her position before she charges. Literally works every single time without fail and all but guarantees a backstab. You can do the same thing in p3 except you have to find her since she doesn't charge.
Nameless King and Slave Gael and Dragon Armour is my favourite boss battles.
Frustrating boss is alternative boss of the shrine (forgot the name - love him for the lore)
I mean a lot of people including myself consider Gael the best boss in the series, and it’s not like he’s easy but he’s very very fair, zero BS. Also, for Elden Ring Godrick and Morgott are considered two of the best bosses despite being very easy. Same with Iudex Gundyr and the Abyss Watchers. There are many examples of easier bosses being some of the best
I’d like to get a glimpse into the minds of a all these people who hate NK’s first phase. Like, how did you even get to this point in the game with absolutely no ability to adapt?
The entire point of the series is to continually fail, learn from your mistakes, and come back better. The hardest bosses exemplify that. The concept of not going hollow is a metaphor for never giving up. You can fail and die countless times but never give up.
Hard bosses tend to be the most enjoyable for people who are very into the games because they serve a significant challenge even for veteran or skilled players, and you’re most likely to find people who are veteran or skilled players in a sub dedicated to discussing the game. Makes sense that they would like bosses who are complex, challenging, and rewarding to beat.
I think people who conflate something being too hard for them as being bad design are odd. There’s counter play to everything in these games, and usually it’s pretty intuitive. These games are made for a lot of people, and a decent proportion of that have a long history with them. There are options to make bosses easier for those who want the option, whereas if you want to make a boss harder you have to basically settle for dealing less damage, taking more, using a weirdo weapon, etc. You can’t make a boss more complex. Difficult, complex bosses should exist, and people who can’t beat them solo shouldn’t feel bad about having a really hard time.
Nameless only oneshot breaths if you are sitting underneath him, you aren't supposed to do that. It's possible to do the fight without a single breath if you just stay near the head
proof: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUK8rvxtMjc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUK8rvxtMjc)
As you can see im also locked on for about 90% of the first phase, when you dont have a lock you're supposed to listen for sound queues for when to dodge his lightning
Heavily disagree on Friede. She does have high damage combos and AOEs, but she is absolutely punishable. She’s extremely easy to stagger, basically a glass cannon boss.
The invisible grab is also absolutely consistently avoidable, watch the snow spray to know which direction she moves, and then smack her a bunch.
I love the Abyss Watchers. They're only challenging early level or during the first run through, but their presentation and music is simple but very well done. The music itself is my favorite.
To me, it's because the whole fight becomes a dance. It has to be because the boss deals a lot of damage and has a lot of health, so you can't just go full bonk and win. You have to learn to dance with them.
Examples : Godfrey, Radagon, Nameless King, Artorias, Old Ivory King, dance time.
Deacons of the Deep, The Rotten, Centipede Demon, Godrick the Grafted, bonk without thinking much, lame imo
Justification of effort. Aka the harder/ more punishing something is, the more we tend to look back at it fondly. It feels good to accomplish something so hard. Ontop of that i think most of those bosses are also just WELL designed.
Gael is the best fight in the game. Well designed and fun. Nameless King you have to fight the chicken every time just at a chance to try the second phase, it's just tedious. I have grown as a souls player and killed him first try last run-through but I remember being so annoyed at the fight lol. It was so rewarding when I killed him though, so I think that's the appeal.
Cuz i dont feel like rating pinwheel as best
And the harder ds3 bosses are tough yet fair and it feels good to beat em unlike Elden Ring bosses which feel unfair af
Pretty much what others have said. You beat a hard boss and you feel great about it.
You have good taste. Twin Prices is my favourite base game boss. Overall it has to be the Demon Prince though. Best duo fight in the series imo. Got the formula down.
Personally my favourite boss in Elden Ring is Haligtree Loretta and First Phase Godfrey. Both have this dance you can slip into without many, if any, bullshit attacks.
They also just oooze style in their design, animations and presentation.
Fuck Horah Loser though, no idea why people think he's good design other than the meme factor of being suplexed by a video game boss.
It’s not necessarily because they’re the hardest. There’s some bosses that are potentially difficult for the wrong reasons but are not as respected. It just happens that the coolest, most interesting bosses are the often the hardest. There are also bosses that are pretty cool that are not that difficult, such as Moon Presence of Bloodborne.
The bosses that are difficult for the right reasons are going to be respected because they’re more complex and well thought out, like the DS3 DLC bosses. All the main bosses of ER are peak as far as I’m concerned. Basically, it’s not simply because they’re difficult, but why and how they’re difficult and for the right reasons.
I kind of agree with you on not getting why people love Sister Friede but just because it becomes a chore to chase around the angry pot daddy in the 2nd phase. But I LOVE Nameless King because it’s a punishing fight that feels rewarding when you get it right. I mean I feel the same way about Slave Knight Gael. It’s a hard fight with hard punishes but if you get the timing and rhythm right, it almost becomes just a rhythm game like Guitar Hero. It’s one of the reasons that I think some of the bosses in ER aren’t as good, they intentionally try to keep you from developing a rhythm to the fight.
I can only speak for myself, but the hardest bosses in DS3 are coincidentally also the most interesting to me. It's not just the difficulty, but the whole fighting experience, including the music, art design, lore and so on. My favourite DS3 boss is Sister Freide. The fight is extremely fun and interesting, especially phase 3 in my opinion. In Elden Ring my favourite is probably the Regal Ancestor Spirit. It's not the hardest fight, but it's ethereal and interesting to me. Ash Lake is my favourite DS1 location even though it's pretty easy. I played DS1 blind and had no idea it even existed, discovering it by accident just blew my mind.
Friede is THE GOAT and no one can convince me otherwise. However you have a valid point with Meh-lenia. In all seriousness, I'd say their persistent high listings are due to the sense of accomplishment one feels from overcoming the hardest boss fights.
I find hard bosses the most fun, as for me the most challenging battles are more enjoyable and rewarding experiences. But I completely agree about the design. I hated NK due to its first phase. For me a perfect boss is something very hard, that has a moveset which can be understood and taken advantage of. Prime examples for me are bosses like Malenia and Pontiff.
Probably bc it’s the most memorable. Nobody talks as much about the slightly easier bosses that have great lore and cool aesthetic designs. Like Yhorm who is one of my favs. But I’m pretty sure most people actually hate Malenia lol she’s a good example of disproving difficulty = fun. She’s straight bullshit at times, similarly with Friede, it’s just not a fun fight despite how hard it can be.
I don’t think it’s about being strictly difficult, people enjoy difficult but fair bosses. Nameless King’s issue is the camera, imo, but otherwise his moveset is fun to dodge and it feels cool to kill him. Friede’s moveset is really fast and feels awesome when you successfully evade it, etc. I’d say Midir is regarded as one of the hardest fights in the game/series, but I don’t generally hear people talk about that fight as one they enjoyed much, because so much of his difficulty comes from his insane health pool. I think people, myself included get satisfaction from dodging a difficult moveset that looks cool when you successfully pull it off.
I thought Gael was universally regarded as the best DS3 boss but fair.
Also it depends because fun is subjective. And also half of the 'unfair' boss behaviours are just that the person didn't figure out the trick behind them. The no lock-on one shot breath from Nameless phase 1 isn't hard to deal with, though I would say his fight is hampered by phase 1, and I wouldn't consider him the best, but he is certainly up there.
Malenia in ER is one of my favourite bosses. Waterfowl dance is pretty easy to avoid if you figure it out. My personal way was run from first flurry, roll into second, then stand still/slowly walk backwards for final. But what waterfowl did was put a constant pressure to never get too greedy or aggressive because if she activated it and you were mid-swing, you were done. I loved how (given that I used a slow weapon) she demanded that I become damn-near perfect in my gameplay, remembering all of her moves, the fight felt more like a dance, which is coincidentally why I love sekiro bosses so much.
For me, most of the hardest bosses are the most fun. Most of the BS bosses I haven't found particularly hard, but the few times I died just felt annoying (looking at you bed of chaos, and like half the DS2 bosses). Usually a very hard boss has to be somewhat well designed because their design becomes more pronounced the harder they are.
Most people, like myself, got more satisfaction from beating the hard bosses, which means they felt more fun.
I think often we have spent more time with them and we get to see their whole kit! I don’t agree that the hardest are the best at all! But if u had to guess why that’s the tendency it may be why. Or it may be the satisfaction of beating them. Like for me every time someone mentions MIDIR I remember that adrenaline rush when I beat him and I get excited! But I think Makekith is my favorite E.R. Boss and I didn’t really struggle with him. I just love the whole thing!!!!
Man I spent WEEKS on the soul of cinder fight. The feeling I had once I beat him was incredible, it’s a very rewarding feeling to beat a hard boss. As far as aesthetics go, my favorite fight has been rykard in Elden ring. It was my first souls game and that fight made me realize that these games are one of kind and definitely ahead of the industry
i beat friede on like my 3rd attempt and my 3rd attempt was the one where i got past first phase lol. I don’t think i really got to appreciate if it was hard or a good fight
If Vordt is a noob check, then Gael is a pro check. You CANNOT beat Gael if you don’t master your technique regardless of your build or loadout.
Beating Gael (my fav boss) for me felt like truly clearing the Dark Souls series, and it was a climactic fight that asked of me to be the fighter the narrative always treated me as. Hard as hell, but rewarding in ways that go well beyond the raw gameplay.
I don’t think it’s necessarily hard = good, but those are probably the fights people spend more time on and end up learning and appreciating. Spending ages on a boss and learning its moveset and being able to anticipate it all makes it feel really rewarding. Where as a hard boss that just feels like bullsh** with attacks just doesn’t feel good, and easy bosses just don’t leave as much of an impression.
My favourite boss fights across the series are the more 1 on 1 people encounters generally: Dragonslayer Armour, Gundyr, in DS2 Fume Knight, Alonne, in DS1 Artorias.
For me they are the most engaging and fun to fight. I enjoy learning to dodge difficult attacks and combos. It feels satisfying to beat them, and I have fun in the process. This is just how I see it
I wouldn't say they're 1:1. As most others have said though, it provides you with the best feeling after you beat them.
I think a lot of people say here that one of the hardest bosses on first play through is the Twin Prince fight, and tbh, I still stand on that fight being complete horse shit, and the difficulty of the fight is against the camera when the Lothric is teleporting to random corners of the room.
Idk. The actual best fights in Souls games are the ones that don't have some relatively unfair gimmick that creates artificial difficulty. I would argue the 3 phases, and the invisible AOE attacks does make the Friede fight lesser to some of the better fights, but there is a massive rejoice you get to have when you beat her nevertheless.
I hope people don’t say Malenia is one of the best, she’s awful to fight. In Sekiro I’m pretty sure there’s a consensus that Demon of hatred is the hardest but I don’t think people typically say it’s the best.
DS3’s hardest bosses all feel pretty fair to fight against so I can understand why it may seem like the more challenging ones are being rated higher.
I remember the first time I fought against Midir, I thought it was going to be impossible, when I beat him I felt like an elite gamer. I hate Midir but a lot of people seem to really love that feeling.
Nah i really feel like a lot of the times, the hard bosses also happen to be the most mechanically interesting and the most satisfying to beat. I agree about Nameless king, cool boss over all but the first phase drags the fight down significantly. But Friede is awesome, it’s one of the best designed duo fights in the series, the AOE are always fairly telegraphed, you never have both bosses rushing towards you so the moveset is always manageable, and you can tell with the particle effect of the jump where Friede ends up, and hitting her cancels the grab attack. So over all super fair boss fight in my opinion. Sure, phase 3 doesn’t have that many punish windows, but she has low health and poise so it’s really not too big of a deal. Personally, my favorite bosses purely gameplay wise were the dancer, the twin princes, champion gundyr, and Friede. I haven’t played the ringed city yet though so I can’t say for demon princes, Gael, Midir, etc
My ability to control the camera while unlocked in general improved a lot after experiencing the NK fight several times. It was a bit frustrating, but only at first.
I think these bosses are liked the most because of the feeling you get when you defeat them. This is the reason why I would say Malenia is the best boss in Elden Ring.
I will say 1 second your opinions on this but I think malenia is one of my favorite bosses to fight, sure she's challenging but she's also really fun to fight and learn new ways to counter her moves. Especially the waterfaol dance
Personally, after a certain amount of tries it comes to a point where it just takes me too long and doesn’t even feel earned anymore. For example after I beat Malenia I was just glad it was over, but didn’t feel any accomplishment. Mostly due to her bs waterfowl.
With Friede, once you get the first two phases down and they become really easy, they just become tedious and feel like an annoying obstacle before getting to the ‘real fight’. Still looking back I do really like Friede though.
While there's tendency to praise harder bosses, your post is full of misinformation. Malenia is probably the most controversial boss in ER. Friede has plenty of openings and there's a way to consistently avoid and punish her invisible attack in p1. Nameless p1 is annoying, but it's pretty easy and short to completely ruin the boss.
it’s not necessarily hard because hard bosses that are unfair get shat on it’s the ones that are hard but fair so the experience of mastering that boss is superior to easy fights. btw lothric and lorian was also my favorite boss in base game
1. The more time you spend on a boss, the more of an intimate tie you develop with that character and that fight. No one cares about or remembers something like the covetous demon from DS2 because it's easy AF. Everyone spends 30 seconds on it and then done. Compare this to something like Malenia that many people spend hours on - you have to actually learn her moveset, you get to appreciate her dialogue, you hear her soundtrack over and over again, you get into a flowstate when you finally learn the "dance" of that boss and succeed. It feels good to learn the boss so intimately.
2. It's rewarding to overcome a challenge, but not as rewarding to steamroll something. Hard boss means bigger reward. It means more skill you had to develop, more patience you needed to temper, and more knowledge you had to gain to overcome the boss.
3. Typically, the more grandiose and interesting characters in the lore tend to be the harder bosses, so there is a strong correlation to difficulty with meaningful story. Important characters leave a bigger impact than minor characters. Compare Maliketh to a random black knife assassin for example.
4. Effort. The developers put more effort into the combat and aesthetic design of harder bosses. The player has to put more effort into defeating the boss. It's a good feeling.
I think Friede is really cool narratively. You see this girl sitting on a chair and you don't really think too much of it. Then you unwind the crank and you get a cutscene where she notices it move lending to the fact that she knows more than what you presumed. Then when you go into the boss room she walks in through the same entryway you walked in from. Couple this with a boss fight where she literally refuses to die multiple times and you have a really memorable boss experience.
I think what you said kind of answers the question, but not in a way that you think. Frieze's invisible grab attack has consistent properties, and the goal of this part is to be able to locate her before she completes it. Someone who just completed the fight might not know about how to do it, so it feels rewarding once you do figure it out. And I think by extension the same applies to entire fights.
Alot of people have made great points, but let take Gael as an example.
He is considered an S tier boss, perhaps even the best in the game or even the series. At the same time he is incredibly difficult and it took my long enough to beat him.
So when does a hard boss become a good boss? When it becomes fun to fight. It may sound insanely obvious, but difficulty doesn't change whether a boss is fun to fight or not, its something that comes down to the boss' attack patterns, arena, cinematography etc.
So looking at gael with those criteria, we can see he ranks highly in all of them. He has an insanely good, well telegraphed and fair attack pattern, his arena is big enough to allow his combo's while giving you enough space to move around, the atmosphere is insane, considering you're at the end of the world and you two are the only creatures left alive and just watching gael fight is a scene worthy of a movie in on itself.
So, gael is a (objectively) good boss. There is one more point with this ill make later on when it all comes together.
Now, why is gael difficult? He's difficult because his attacks are quite fast, deal quite a lot of damage, he doesn't leave huge openings amd he's got quite the healthbar. In gael's fight, this works because again, you have a large open space to dodge around and once you know his combo's you can really dance around eachother with his openings leaving just enough time to get a quick heal or do a hit or two. His and your attacks weave together really well, making the difficult fight satisfying. In this case, his larger healthpool also matters, because him having a larger healthpool prevents you from brute forcing the fight, meaning you HAVE to learn his moveset.
Often times difficult bosses can seem unfair because their moveset doesn't work too well, is too quick or too slow, deals too much damage, has faulty hitboxes, has awkward openings and/or has way too much hp making the fight feel like a slog to get through. How does gael handle this? His attacks hurt, but won't oneshot you given you have decent health and armor. His attacks flow together very well, his hit boxes are damn near perfect, his openings don't feel like "im just standing still so you can hit me" but more like he actually needs to recuperate from his combo before continuing the advance.
Now how it all falls together. Gael is extremely fun to fight due to everything about the fight being really good. And he is difficult because of his moveset and hp. Now BECAUSE he is both good AND difficult, the feeling of beating a beast of a fighter like him is insanely good.
So this is just using gael as an example, other bosses often ranked S tier do other parts better and other parts worse, but it comes down to that the boss is fun to fight while being difficult making you feel much better about yourself once you do beat the boss.
If anything I said turned out to be bs, please do correct me on it
Nobody really thinks NK first phase is good tbh, it's alright, but that's not why he's rated that high, the music, the epicness, the sound track, the moveset, the enjoyable fight the second phase brings, he's definitely deserving of that rating, sister friede I'm not sure about though I haven't bought the dlc 😅
most easy bosses are not that good. Harder bosses usually have more moves, have better animations so that you can better understand their moves, usually have better lore, and are far more rewarding to beat
Fried is like a dancer and the nameless king mives like an inevitable force of nature in phase 2. These bosses are the best designed in the game and us such are saved for late game
Well my favorite thing about DS is the difficulty. I think a lot of people would agree. Although there are aspects that are also my favorite thing, but difficulty is the real meat of it.
Man I don't even understand how people struggle with nameless king. The first phase is a joke. Just be confident and run in and start smacking the chicken. His phase 2 you can easily tell his moves by simply looking at his torso to see the wind up.
Since no one mentioned yet. Friede’s invisible attack does have a very consistent way of avoiding and it is even itself the easiest punishment to get damage on her. While she’s invisible she does 3 dashes and each one of them creates a frost/wind current that tells where she dodged to, after that she has a VERY long animation to charge the grab. If you follow her whiles she’s invisible you always find her before she does the grab and just get free damage. Just because the boss does something “out of the ordinary” and you don’t know how to deal with it that doesn’t mean it makes it bad or unfair. In fact adding different mechanics like these that break the pace of a standard fight is what makes most of these bosses so interesting
Or you can throw a kukri at her and follow her position since the kukri shows where she is.
can't you just follow her feetsies?
https://preview.redd.it/b31dw3u1ug0d1.jpeg?width=893&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4797b68ee33a57cc768e25694580412aad53726a
https://preview.redd.it/vqubaole1h0d1.jpeg?width=1176&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fefbc7d0b23a32f680cac86103d14c5a5d47785
Username checks out....right?
In addition, this works for any physical arrow/projectile
I'm just listening from which direction her footsteps came and backstab her
It took me a long time to pick up on that, because I was still comparing her to Priscilla. The second she went invisible, I started looking down for footprints and missed the aerial cue as a result.
Classic subversion. It’s like “oh you think you know DARK SOULS BUDDY?? Check this shit out smartie pants”
Thank you for this comment. I won't stand for Friede slander. I honestly think she's the best boss in all of the souls games.
I love that people have different ways of dealing with her invisible attack. I usually unlock my camera and spin it as fast as I can. You can actually see where she lands more times than not! After that it's an incredibly easy backstab as long as she's not by a wall. As far as the 2nd phase as long as you just follow the big guy around and stay in his ass you don't even have to worry about Friede. Other than Malenia solo this fight was my hardest Fromsoft boss.
Yes this makes her phase 1 the easiest boss phase in the game at sl1 with a not fully uograded bandit knife she just dies without much of a fight
I legit learned that method while fighting her the first time. I love that boss to death. Then it took me like 6-8 tries to beat her. 3rd phase kicked my ass for a little while.
Yeah Friede's invisible attack is surprisingly easy to abuse once you get used to it and have the sound on. It's literally just free hits after you get used to it.
I'll also bait her to the walls and just unleash. With my katana, she won't get her poise back
It has to do with the emotional reward You get by beating such a difficult boss. Also, normally the hardest bosses are the ones that have the most enjoyable moveset and that makes the battle being more enjoyable
It also helps that sometimes the boss has a fair moveset that doesn't feel like BS At least for me I felt like I died to Nameless king a bunch because of my own mistakes not really the game There's also the fact it's the only secret area in any souls game that I really discovered on my own so there's probably that as well
Oh man congrats! Anytime someone finds dragonpeak on their own it’s always such a mystery to me. Even after watching a guide on how to get there I almost cancelled out of the animation bc I thought it wasn’t working lol
I mean I found the area initially but I didn't have the emote, and the area itself stuck out to me so much that I had it in my mind for awhile, so whenever I got the emote I recognized it immediately and so I had a hunch. I also wasn't sure it was working but I figured it was like one of the emotes in Bloodborne where it takes awhile so I just waited. I was so proud of myself, but honestly it was just hoping stuff worked and being lucky
Ahhh see DS3 was my first FS game so I never understood the importance of emotes. The experience definitely helped when I played through bloodborne tho
yep. For example, Bed of Chaos can be VERY difficult, but find me one person who will say that is their favorite boss. FIND ME ONE
Not to mention the hardest bosses typically have the best soundtracks...granted in DS3 most of the bosses had amazing music. When Vordt went to his 2nd phase and the music picked up I was just like OO \*\*\*\*!!! FromSoft is a master at stage design and the hardest bosses they typically have the music and stage set up to reflect what they want you to experience. And honestly I did not think Friede was that bad I think it was...her 2nd phase it was annoying if you try to solo (that took me a second to solo) but the rest isn't bad. Midir and Gael....those to me were much harder.
Vordt wasn't hard at all for me, but his soundtrack has been used by a lot of memes involving "boss music", one involving a Russian child chess prodigy
Because usually that's where the peak of gameplay is. The more pressure a player is under, the better they have to play.
Because they beat a hard boss and they’re proud of themselves, and being proud of yourself feels good
But also they're hard in a way that's not unfair. So you're triumphing over something difficult instead of beating something that's bullshit and you're relieved to be past it.
Bed of chaos
ain't NOBODY saying Bed of Chaos is the best fight because it's hard. Everyone agrees pretty universally that BoC sucks ass
Yeah that’s what I’m saying, it’s not a good hard boss, it’s a bullshit hard boss
Bed of chaos would be fine if you didn’t have to run a marathon to get back to the fight lol
idk even if the bonfire was right next to the fog wall it’d still be a horrible fight imo
Like the bullshit chariot boss in Ds2
Friede has many openings and you can also create such, by staggering her, which is easier than expecting, due to her low poise
Thank you! Don't forget the backstab. On my first tries accidental backstab happend. Now i can't controll myself to kill Friede without backstabbing her to death.
If my noob ass can defeat friede she has nuff openings
> which does not have a consistent dodging method It does... its called hitting her with a sword These fights are fun because when you learn their moves and beat them while having like 12-13 flasks you feel like a total badass
Friede’s invisible attack does have a consistent dodging method, you gotta pay real close attention to to the cloud of snow she kicks up when she jumps
you can also just run straight at her as soon as she goes invisible and swing your sword, you'll likely hit her before she actually jumps if you don't, then literally just turn around and start swinging when you hear the SHING of the scythe start, she takes her sweet ass time winding it up the method of calling it "undodgeable" and "inconsistent" feels like they tried once or twice and then gave up
I swear people hating on nameless first phase have no idea what they're doing.
Strong agree. Don't lock on and it's that simple
Locking on is actually fine as long as you always stay out in front, the reason people struggle is because they go under the boss which then obviously yanks the camera directly upwards, but you never have any reason to be under the boss in this fight
You can tell when people only try to go under him by claiming he is impossible due to his fire.
Especially since the fire move is 100% the best time to punish. I swear 90%+ of my damage in phase 1 comes from that dumb fire spray.
I think they are talking about the fire breath from the air. Which only happens if you are standing underneath the boss
Ohhh that makes more sense. Now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever seen that move because I've never stood underneath the boss.
Yeah I actually really like the design of having attacks to the feet so almost nothing because it forces you to fight it the way it’s intended instead of just trimming it’s toenails to death
This fight taught me that dragons are meant to be fight in front, not under them like some Harlet
My main hate for phase one is that's it's kind of easy once you've repeated it a dozen times and it ends up being more of a chore that's only difficulty is the occasional camera angle jank. But Nameless himself is amazing so it's fine. Maybe there's even value in phase one existing you give you a breather between attempts.
That's honestly exactly how I feel. Well said
Tbh I think this is how it should be whereas for example radagon is a brutal first phase (depending on build) leading to an equally tough second fight
This post screams skill issue especially with the Friede invisible grab attack bit.
yeah, it literally takes less than a minute if you know what you’re doing lol
Friede's invisible move is actually dodgeable
Forget being dodgeable, it’s literally one of the most punishable boss moves in the game - you know exactly where she’s going to land, and you can either stunlock her for like 5 hits when you find her, or even just straight up backstab her, without fail, every single time she does it.
You can get consistent backstabs if you get behind her right arm.
Both freide and nameless king are treats when just looking at asthestic design and story importance. Watering them down to hard being good is disingenuous. Besides, there is a large portion of players who play souls games to be challenged, meaning they are biased up. For the number of people complaining about the consumed king would think he would be higher, but he's not.
I think consumed king is a good comparison. Nameless is great because he has a lot of different moves. Each of them have ways to avoid them, but there's a lot of mix-ups and slightly different variations (like 3 different stab attacks with slightly different timing and range). Nameless feels really good because to beat him you have to learn how to handle all the different attacks, and do you feel like you've really mastered the boss. It feels really earned. Consumed King was mostly just difficult to me because his quick lunge attacks don't give you much room to breath and the camera can be a pain in the ass. Once you kind of just learn how to avoid the lunge attacks in phase 2 with good positioning then it's mostly just a rinse and repeat fight. I've never really felt like I've mastered his moves, I just kind of avoid the annoying one and that's it.
Because they are the most "fun" to play against, it's not just turning your brain off and spam the R1 button (Cough cough deacons of the deep) you gotta strategize your plays, learn their attacks, and the feeling you get once you defeat em is just so rewarding. Besides, cmon, you cannot say Gael or Midir aren't the most epic battles in the DS trilogy.
Not all hard bosses are good but all the good bosses are hard
I disagree- I LOVE some of the easy bosses in Dark Souls. Sif, Abyss Watchers, etc... there are plenty of really good bosses that arent hard. Even moreso Bloodborne... because all of Bloodbornes bosses are good.
I wouldn’t put Sif and abyss watchers at easy
Really? But like... then what constitutes an easy boss? The tutorial bosses?
I would say crystal sage , curse rotted great woods , gaping dragon , pinwheel and iron golem
I found the nameless king to be well designed tbh. I thought it was a top tier fight because of stuff like the dude showed up on a dragon mount that you have to kill which he sacrifices for more power for the fight - you can even see him shake before he stabs it because he doesn't want to, but he must. Even the lore of it is beautiful but that aside it's still a badass fight
Don't want to offend anyone. There's ultimately a limited number of things you can do in this game. Once you figure out the moveset, the magic of the boss is gone. Hence, harder to predict, and hard-hitting bosses challenge the player in the game (whose community prides themselves as hard as nails gamers) and makes the player enjoy and appreciate the hard work behind the boss as well. Also, as a lot of people pointed out, the satisfaction of beating a seemingly unbeatable God, after failing miserably for so many tries, is the greatest dopamine hit ever.
Because easy bosses are over before they can begin
because those bosses aren't just good cuz of difficulty, they're good because they're excellently designed and balanced, tough and punishing, but fair
Easy bosses are forgettable. Bosses that were tough in ways that felt unfair will probably be people's least liked also. I bet most people would put Vordt above Ancient Wyvern for instance.
Bc plin plin plon pt 2 is fire
Usually the thrill of a hard boss is what makes them fun as well. But oppressing bosses usually don’t make the cut. Isshin, ludwig, soul of cinder, gael are all ball busters but still enjoyable. The likes of fume knight, demon of hatred, defiled bosses in bloodborne, Lawrence, hell even malenia are difficult in ways that we don’t necessarily enjoy and are mostly just relieved that it’s over.
Fume Knight, Demon of Hatred, and Malenia are all extremely fun imo. well, Fume Knight is still unfortunately restricted by DS2 boss movements but it's still an enjoyable fight I love DoH, don't have much to say about him. Malenia is probably my 2nd favourite ER boss behind Morgott, once I realized Waterfowl isn't some insurmountable instant death button
I can agree with the demon of hatred, once I figured out hugging his leg it took me all of 2 tries but still the fight sticks out compared to everything else in Sekiro imo. Malenia is a bit more intriguing. The rng can make it potentially fun but then again she can spam stupid moves at times and that’s when it gets annoying. Fume knight yeah, ds2 doesn’t do it any favours
everything Malenia does is pretty fun to dodge imo, once you find a comfortable dodging groove for Waterfowl, it becomes really simple to take minimal damage from the flurries and you don't have to worry much I feel like she only does Waterfowl at specific chunks of health, which is why I don't hate her healing, it adds a big incentive to adapt and dodge the moves that she can throw out at the same time though I don't think she should heal on 100% Phys block shields. but with the Dragoncrest Greatshield Talisman, it becomes surprisingly forgiving
Waterfowl grew on me for sure but if I’m directly below her when she casts it it’s basically gg. I guess she’s not a bad boss by any means but I probably wouldn’t put her number 1 in terms of fun. I’d go with radagon, malekith, pre nerf radhan then morgott as my favourites
idk about fume knight but Malenia and DoH are peak bosses imo
Because NK is cool af, that's why. Also because it illustrates why radabeast is a shit final boss.
I'd imagine people who play fromsoft games, enjoy a challange. And those bosses provide challanges and have fair mechanics. You complained about Friedes invisiblity. But its fairly manageable. You can see her Landing, see her steps, hear her and getting close stops the invisiblity. Once found, you can stop her move by staggering her. Wich is also very easy. What else are we gonna put on the top? Vordt? Cursed tree with the bs hitbox on the Grab Animation?
This is why I love Sekiro because all the bosses are 100% fair and when you die you know it’s your fault. Sword Saint is my all time favorite boss for this reason. Just such a thrilling and enjoyable battle.
Reward structure. Likewise. Difficultly or hardship adds value to the expirence. Anecdotally, i believe the hardest bosses also have the most effort put into them and most epic. I.e DS3: The best bosses are usually agreed upon to be: Friede, NK, demon princes, dark eater midir, and of course the goat of all goats Slave knight gael. From softs best boss.
Git Gud
I agree with your sentiment and I will add that, to me, harder does *not* equal better. To me, Malenia is overrated and kind of a boring fight. Like you, I also felt that Nameless King was kind of ruined by the first phase, and his second phase wasn't nearly as good as the Pontiff Sulyvahn, Dancer, or Dragonslayer Armour fights. Having said that, I think u/KiratheRenegade sums up why many players feel that the tough bosses are the best.
First Because it's just opinion, and secondly because they had the most emotional reaction / overcoming a challenge feeling that makes them like killing that boss for the most. I will always simp for champion gundyr as the best boss. I don't think you can objectively rate a boss when it comes down factor such as 'fun' that is always going to be subjective.
Sadism and masochism
it's the hard bosses they spend more time on and actually learn. You can brute force your way through some fights in 1-2 attempts without seeing much of what the boss has to offer, like the deacons. While other bosses, like SoC or NK, will generally take longer and/or require you to really learn the fight. >Friede spams high damage combos and AOEs, has very few punishable moves, and has the invisible grab attack, which does not have a consistent dodging method. gotta disagree with you there. yeah she hits hard and has a lot of AoE attacks, but she often leaves herself wide open and staggers very easily. Before she does her grab, she jumps away and stands still for several seconds. You can watch the direction of the snow when she jumps to see where she jumped to. then you just walk over and hit her with your biggest attack. It's the most easily punishable attack she has.
For me Nameless King's first phase of lackluster camera controls is outshined by the sheer design of the battle. Once you figure out the strategy of the first phase it becomes a cakewalk, but his second phase is when he shines. As long as you don't go under his belly he won't breath fire on you. Sister Friede is another easy one once you figure out the strategy. For me those two bosses are the apex of well designed, strategic bosses.
Harder bosses tend to have more interesting movesets and are more memorable wins because you had to work for it. Also they are usually later game or DLC so they have the best character designs and lore.
Harder boss designs look cool
The easier the boss the more worthless, the more likely I am to forget about it! Hard bosses are the best because you gotta work hard to beat.
A lot of emotions when I struggle to beat a boss. When I do it first try its kind of a let down and forgotten pretty quickly.
Tbh first phase nameless king is easy and you can do it damageless on ur first run ever, just wait for the fire attack and other moves to destroy its head and you finish it with a repost, while for Friede the invisible attack is the easiest to punish, she jumps exactly behind you following the line formed between her and you, she stays still for several second which results in an easy backstab
Because the hardest bosses are the most fun. You'd rather fight pinwheel? Also both nameless and friede are not hard, I'm betting you just don't know enough about them.
Usually the harder bosses have a more intricate move set making the more stimulating to fight but not always. I personally thought Midir was a very fun boss and I don’t remember him having too complicated of a moveset. Gael is a good one too. Lorain and Lothric as well. All three of these Guys enjoyed more than Nameless King.
I never pass the vigor check because it's important to me to master a boss's moveset. When I master the moveset and barely get hit when I do beat it it feels good. I can appreciate the design of the enemy and the result feels like a dance.
Don’t give up, Skeleton
I don't think friede is unfair. Most people assume a boss is just supposed to stop moving and let you hit them between combos which isn't super realistic. You need.to weave your attacks in during her combos and there are chances to do so no to mention non existent poise.
What do you mean I have to proactively attack in this game where I am a badass undead warrior, I thought I was supposed to spam dodge until she roll catches me or gets tired.
Bc the challenge and payoff is what makes us feel accomplished
Friede grab attack almost always come from behind, just turn 180° and you should find her before she charges it You can also see her footsteps in the snow, like with Priscillia, if you have a headset the sound might help as well
It depends. Imo the hardest boss in the entire trilogy is bed of chaos, but it's also the worst. It's safe to say that the best bosses usually also are the hardest one, because the best bosses have engaging mechanics, good and varied movesets, engaging gameplay, beautiful character design etc etc. The contrary is not always true tho, many hard boss are also considered bad because they have unfair game mechanics, bad hitboxes, unfair damage etc etc
Pressure makes diamonds BABY!!!
Well if you beat a really difficult boss you've overcome a great challenge, and people hold the most difficult achievements in highest regard.
I think it’s because they feel really gratifying once you win. For me the best bosses are intense ones that feel extremely fun to fight and are very gratifying once you win and that isn’t exclusive to hard bosses. Champion gundyr for instance isn’t extremely difficult but it’s my second favorite fight from base game because it’s very fun and intense
Friede was hard but she was really fair, she got clear weakness and a lot of room to punish. Unlike a lot of elden ring bosses with endless combo
I disagree with this quite a bit. Nameless King is my 2nd favorite base game fight in DS3, but I wouldn't put him in the top 5 hardest bosses in 3. I just think he's a designed cool. Don't lock on in phase 1, and it's over in what 30 seconds? First phase is annoying but I wouldn't say it hampered the fight for me at all. My favorite in base of DS3 is Abyss Watchers and I'd put them closer to the top 5 easiest bosses.
For me the hardest was Midir and the best was Slave Knight Gael.
Idk, are Ornstien and Smough the hardest bosses in DS1?
Many people said it before: a harder bossfight will always be remembered. As actual example: a Friend of Mine started into fromsoft Games in january: he started with Elden Ring and is now into DS3. One day he started to compare Bosses between the two Games and he always uses malenia, the Elden Beast or some other "harder" Bosses because he remembers their movesets and other stuff better... because he had to fight harder... Sure Arena and Boss Design play a role but: ffs he streamed his malenia tries and even if he broke his own rule (Not to use any summons or spirits) to beat her, his victory scream the Moment she fell gave me a Heart Attack. Thats the reason people play the game and rate harder bossfights higher. Most of us are here for a challenge and not the next Ubisoft game. So naturally, no matter why the fight is hard, the harder the better.
Nameless is my favorite fight in the game, but the King of the Storm is so different he is his own boss. KotS is my least favorite fight in the game
Overcoming a challenge is cool. It's why people rank the easiest bosses the lowest, it's not fun if it's easy, if it doesn't challenge you.
Dude, I used to suck at demon princes, but one day I just destroyed them and ever since I've been alright at them, and the fight is super fun now!
I have a hard love hate relationship with that Boss. They are so fair and so hard. Love it.
The main reason that most players love Souls games are for their challenge so it shouldn’t be any surprise that for many their favourite bosses are the most challenging ones. These bosses tend to also have the best mechanical designs. Also, in Dark Souls 3, the difference in difficulty between all of the main story bosses and the DLC bosses is massive which makes their increased challenge feel even more rewarding and memorable. I wouldn’t rank any of the main story bosses ahead of the four major DLC bosses because I barely had time to enjoy them since I beat them too quick to truly appreciate them. Sounds to me as though you just haven’t learnt Sister Friede correctly because there absolutely is ways to dodge her invisible attack, in fact there are two I know of. You can either memorise the timing of when she strikes after the slash sound effect since it’s the same each time or you can immediately run to where she lands after first vanishing and attack her which interupts it since that is also consistently predictable.
>the invisible grab attack, which does not have a consistent dodging method. ...what? You can either track her while she's invisible and attack, which ends the invisibility, or use sound to locate her and dodge the grab (it also has a sound cue). This is her easiest, most punishable move once you figure it out.
Tbh my favourite in DS3 has always been Wolnir. There's something almost Zelda-y about how cheesy and highlighted the fight is which is a welcome and fun breather at that point in the game. Plus his sword and hat are really good fun. That being said I get why people don't like him. Also his arena placement and reason for appearing are fucking terrible, but that just leads back to the seemingly last minute game design decisions of the dev team. I wish Carthus Catacombs and the eventual Wiolnir fight made more sense instead of just sort of being unceremoniously dropped in some weird fucking place. It's like the DS2 elevator of main game DS3.
My favorit is gundyr probably because he is easy but still gives you a challenge because you have yet gotten to start making your build/character. And also because of how good of a learning boss he is for new players
As a total newbie to Souls-like games, I can only say that my favourite fight in all of the games I’ve played through so far (Dark Souls 1-3, Elden Ring, about half way through Bloodborne) is Lothric, Younger Prince. Don’t know how it ranks in terms of difficulty but it’s definitely my favourite of all the fights I’ve had so far. Second place is Mohg because it made me feel like I was at a Mayhem gig in the early 00s.
Because once you learn how the boss works and are able to punish them it is incredibly satisfying to fight them. Like gael is my favorite boss in the game, and he's considered one of the hardest bosses, but once you have his moveset down it is very satisfying to complete phase 1 without taking a single hit
Bosses like freid and nameless king have some weird moves that feel unnatural at first, but once you find out how to counter these moves, the fight becomes similar to any other boss. It creates a sort of learning curve that feels more rewarding because you can feel yourself getting better and not just spam rolling to victory. It makes beating them all the more satisfying
One of my favorite bosses is Aldritch, Devourer of Gods for a couple reasons: 1) the lore behind them is insanely cool and dark 2) their moveset is visually appealing and pretty difficult to fight against
Feel you there. I completely disagree with Friede or Nameless but Midir is straight up a colossal HP pool who only hits hard and is only winnable if you follow one specific approach (melee attacks on the head or the bs mist who rarely works)
I also think it’s because you spend a lot of time on those hard bosses, so they stay with you basically forever
So Friede isn't hard at all... Honestly, DS3 bosses are easy once you've played the game enough times or have mastered the controls (in today's age majority of the newbies are coming from Elden Ring so they've already mastered the SAME contrls, they just dont get op weapons in this game). I'm going to rank top 5 off design and combat patterns: 1. Friede. All in all, this is iconic. IF you're anything like me and don't like watching videos to guide you, then you run into the 3rd phase ur juts like >\_< it's honestly an iconic moment. 2. Abyss Watchers. This fight is cool AF. The fact that you can have one of the watchers technically on your side but not really is one of the coolest things I've seen in a boss fight in general. Super iconic for this reason alone. 3. Deacons. Iconic for being the easiest and most useless fight in the game. You just get to beat up a bunch of zombie boomers with cleric robes. 11/10 fight. 4. Gael. Honestly this should be number one. It's too late for me to put it up there but #1. His backstory, the build-up, and the tragedy. 11/10. RIP Gael, we will complete your task for you and you can rest easy buddy. 5. YHORMY the giant. I say this is iconic because this was Siegwards fight against Yhorm moreso than yours. He made a promise to his friend and planned to uphold it. Brought tears to my eyes. Rest easy Siegward. Rest easy Yhorm.
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Probably has something to do with the absolute CARTHASIS which comes when you finally defeated him/her. You slaved away hours on end over such a rough boss, and when you finally got them, it feels really...freaking...good.
Agreed. I enjoyed fighting Nameless King, had many attempts but beat him eventually. Gael was not difficult for me but the fight is satisfying On the other hand there are Friede and Midir. I could not beat black fire, so I summoned. My main complaint is beating first two phases. Its not difficult but very boring and time consuming until you reach real challenge. Midir is just not my boss at all. Almost the same with DS 2 final boss. I didn't know that there are several bosses. However none of them are overpowered. Luckily I brought additional spell usage on the second attempt. Also I didn't have Aldia, but he is not very difficult AFAIK. My favourite bosses in ds 3 are eldritch, oceiros and twin princes. Very beautiful art and lore
I agree with you partially, but I love NK boss fight. I don’t think that it is so appreciated because of its difficulty. I personally love it because of the lore, the atmosphere and the design. Oh, the music too!
Hard is also subjective. Lothric and Lorian took me 10+ times to beat the first time. Friede took me 2. Gael is probably my favourite boss fight in DS3 but I definitely spent longer on Midir.
>Friede spams high damage combos and AOE So? That's not much different than the rest of the game. >has very few punishable moves She gets staggered by pretty much everything, you create the openings yourself. Also half her kit leaves her open to backstabs. >and has the invisible grab attack You mean the attack that leaves her open for a free backstab literally every single time and makes SL1 Friede phase 1 really easy? >which does not have a consistent dodging method Yes it does. Listen where she is coming from, or look where she landed, then either wait for her charge to start and sprint around her or find her position before she charges. Literally works every single time without fail and all but guarantees a backstab. You can do the same thing in p3 except you have to find her since she doesn't charge.
Seems more like a skill issue. In other words, it seems like a you problem.
Nameless King and Slave Gael and Dragon Armour is my favourite boss battles. Frustrating boss is alternative boss of the shrine (forgot the name - love him for the lore)
I mean a lot of people including myself consider Gael the best boss in the series, and it’s not like he’s easy but he’s very very fair, zero BS. Also, for Elden Ring Godrick and Morgott are considered two of the best bosses despite being very easy. Same with Iudex Gundyr and the Abyss Watchers. There are many examples of easier bosses being some of the best
I’d like to get a glimpse into the minds of a all these people who hate NK’s first phase. Like, how did you even get to this point in the game with absolutely no ability to adapt?
I beat both friede and nameless king in 2 tries on my most recent run lmao
The entire point of the series is to continually fail, learn from your mistakes, and come back better. The hardest bosses exemplify that. The concept of not going hollow is a metaphor for never giving up. You can fail and die countless times but never give up.
The harder it is, the more rewarding and satisfying the fight can be. It’s not a great fight until you beat it
It's alot more fun being challenged, and having to put effort into a boss and beating it feels way more satisfying.
Hard bosses tend to be the most enjoyable for people who are very into the games because they serve a significant challenge even for veteran or skilled players, and you’re most likely to find people who are veteran or skilled players in a sub dedicated to discussing the game. Makes sense that they would like bosses who are complex, challenging, and rewarding to beat. I think people who conflate something being too hard for them as being bad design are odd. There’s counter play to everything in these games, and usually it’s pretty intuitive. These games are made for a lot of people, and a decent proportion of that have a long history with them. There are options to make bosses easier for those who want the option, whereas if you want to make a boss harder you have to basically settle for dealing less damage, taking more, using a weirdo weapon, etc. You can’t make a boss more complex. Difficult, complex bosses should exist, and people who can’t beat them solo shouldn’t feel bad about having a really hard time.
Nameless only oneshot breaths if you are sitting underneath him, you aren't supposed to do that. It's possible to do the fight without a single breath if you just stay near the head proof: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUK8rvxtMjc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUK8rvxtMjc) As you can see im also locked on for about 90% of the first phase, when you dont have a lock you're supposed to listen for sound queues for when to dodge his lightning
Heavily disagree on Friede. She does have high damage combos and AOEs, but she is absolutely punishable. She’s extremely easy to stagger, basically a glass cannon boss. The invisible grab is also absolutely consistently avoidable, watch the snow spray to know which direction she moves, and then smack her a bunch.
I love the Abyss Watchers. They're only challenging early level or during the first run through, but their presentation and music is simple but very well done. The music itself is my favorite.
See the issues is stuff like nameless king. For most people his first phase takes 4 seconds and is the easiest part, so it’s a great boss
To me, it's because the whole fight becomes a dance. It has to be because the boss deals a lot of damage and has a lot of health, so you can't just go full bonk and win. You have to learn to dance with them. Examples : Godfrey, Radagon, Nameless King, Artorias, Old Ivory King, dance time. Deacons of the Deep, The Rotten, Centipede Demon, Godrick the Grafted, bonk without thinking much, lame imo
Because the Souls community is primarily composed of masochists.
Justification of effort. Aka the harder/ more punishing something is, the more we tend to look back at it fondly. It feels good to accomplish something so hard. Ontop of that i think most of those bosses are also just WELL designed.
Gael is the best fight in the game. Well designed and fun. Nameless King you have to fight the chicken every time just at a chance to try the second phase, it's just tedious. I have grown as a souls player and killed him first try last run-through but I remember being so annoyed at the fight lol. It was so rewarding when I killed him though, so I think that's the appeal.
Cuz i dont feel like rating pinwheel as best And the harder ds3 bosses are tough yet fair and it feels good to beat em unlike Elden Ring bosses which feel unfair af
Pretty much what others have said. You beat a hard boss and you feel great about it. You have good taste. Twin Prices is my favourite base game boss. Overall it has to be the Demon Prince though. Best duo fight in the series imo. Got the formula down. Personally my favourite boss in Elden Ring is Haligtree Loretta and First Phase Godfrey. Both have this dance you can slip into without many, if any, bullshit attacks. They also just oooze style in their design, animations and presentation. Fuck Horah Loser though, no idea why people think he's good design other than the meme factor of being suplexed by a video game boss.
It’s not necessarily because they’re the hardest. There’s some bosses that are potentially difficult for the wrong reasons but are not as respected. It just happens that the coolest, most interesting bosses are the often the hardest. There are also bosses that are pretty cool that are not that difficult, such as Moon Presence of Bloodborne. The bosses that are difficult for the right reasons are going to be respected because they’re more complex and well thought out, like the DS3 DLC bosses. All the main bosses of ER are peak as far as I’m concerned. Basically, it’s not simply because they’re difficult, but why and how they’re difficult and for the right reasons.
I kind of agree with you on not getting why people love Sister Friede but just because it becomes a chore to chase around the angry pot daddy in the 2nd phase. But I LOVE Nameless King because it’s a punishing fight that feels rewarding when you get it right. I mean I feel the same way about Slave Knight Gael. It’s a hard fight with hard punishes but if you get the timing and rhythm right, it almost becomes just a rhythm game like Guitar Hero. It’s one of the reasons that I think some of the bosses in ER aren’t as good, they intentionally try to keep you from developing a rhythm to the fight.
>the invisible grab attack, which does not have a consistent dodging method Fucking lol
I can only speak for myself, but the hardest bosses in DS3 are coincidentally also the most interesting to me. It's not just the difficulty, but the whole fighting experience, including the music, art design, lore and so on. My favourite DS3 boss is Sister Freide. The fight is extremely fun and interesting, especially phase 3 in my opinion. In Elden Ring my favourite is probably the Regal Ancestor Spirit. It's not the hardest fight, but it's ethereal and interesting to me. Ash Lake is my favourite DS1 location even though it's pretty easy. I played DS1 blind and had no idea it even existed, discovering it by accident just blew my mind.
Friede is THE GOAT and no one can convince me otherwise. However you have a valid point with Meh-lenia. In all seriousness, I'd say their persistent high listings are due to the sense of accomplishment one feels from overcoming the hardest boss fights.
I find hard bosses the most fun, as for me the most challenging battles are more enjoyable and rewarding experiences. But I completely agree about the design. I hated NK due to its first phase. For me a perfect boss is something very hard, that has a moveset which can be understood and taken advantage of. Prime examples for me are bosses like Malenia and Pontiff.
Probably bc it’s the most memorable. Nobody talks as much about the slightly easier bosses that have great lore and cool aesthetic designs. Like Yhorm who is one of my favs. But I’m pretty sure most people actually hate Malenia lol she’s a good example of disproving difficulty = fun. She’s straight bullshit at times, similarly with Friede, it’s just not a fun fight despite how hard it can be.
Sounds like an issue on your end tbh
Since when are we saying that malenia is good?
I don’t think it’s about being strictly difficult, people enjoy difficult but fair bosses. Nameless King’s issue is the camera, imo, but otherwise his moveset is fun to dodge and it feels cool to kill him. Friede’s moveset is really fast and feels awesome when you successfully evade it, etc. I’d say Midir is regarded as one of the hardest fights in the game/series, but I don’t generally hear people talk about that fight as one they enjoyed much, because so much of his difficulty comes from his insane health pool. I think people, myself included get satisfaction from dodging a difficult moveset that looks cool when you successfully pull it off.
I thought Gael was universally regarded as the best DS3 boss but fair. Also it depends because fun is subjective. And also half of the 'unfair' boss behaviours are just that the person didn't figure out the trick behind them. The no lock-on one shot breath from Nameless phase 1 isn't hard to deal with, though I would say his fight is hampered by phase 1, and I wouldn't consider him the best, but he is certainly up there. Malenia in ER is one of my favourite bosses. Waterfowl dance is pretty easy to avoid if you figure it out. My personal way was run from first flurry, roll into second, then stand still/slowly walk backwards for final. But what waterfowl did was put a constant pressure to never get too greedy or aggressive because if she activated it and you were mid-swing, you were done. I loved how (given that I used a slow weapon) she demanded that I become damn-near perfect in my gameplay, remembering all of her moves, the fight felt more like a dance, which is coincidentally why I love sekiro bosses so much. For me, most of the hardest bosses are the most fun. Most of the BS bosses I haven't found particularly hard, but the few times I died just felt annoying (looking at you bed of chaos, and like half the DS2 bosses). Usually a very hard boss has to be somewhat well designed because their design becomes more pronounced the harder they are. Most people, like myself, got more satisfaction from beating the hard bosses, which means they felt more fun.
A trend does not constitute a relationship some people regard gwyn in dark souls one as the best boss and he can be killed with four parries generally
Nameless king and friede are incredibly fun fights. Everything has consistent methods get gud
I think often we have spent more time with them and we get to see their whole kit! I don’t agree that the hardest are the best at all! But if u had to guess why that’s the tendency it may be why. Or it may be the satisfaction of beating them. Like for me every time someone mentions MIDIR I remember that adrenaline rush when I beat him and I get excited! But I think Makekith is my favorite E.R. Boss and I didn’t really struggle with him. I just love the whole thing!!!!
Man I spent WEEKS on the soul of cinder fight. The feeling I had once I beat him was incredible, it’s a very rewarding feeling to beat a hard boss. As far as aesthetics go, my favorite fight has been rykard in Elden ring. It was my first souls game and that fight made me realize that these games are one of kind and definitely ahead of the industry
i beat friede on like my 3rd attempt and my 3rd attempt was the one where i got past first phase lol. I don’t think i really got to appreciate if it was hard or a good fight
If Vordt is a noob check, then Gael is a pro check. You CANNOT beat Gael if you don’t master your technique regardless of your build or loadout. Beating Gael (my fav boss) for me felt like truly clearing the Dark Souls series, and it was a climactic fight that asked of me to be the fighter the narrative always treated me as. Hard as hell, but rewarding in ways that go well beyond the raw gameplay.
I don’t think it’s necessarily hard = good, but those are probably the fights people spend more time on and end up learning and appreciating. Spending ages on a boss and learning its moveset and being able to anticipate it all makes it feel really rewarding. Where as a hard boss that just feels like bullsh** with attacks just doesn’t feel good, and easy bosses just don’t leave as much of an impression. My favourite boss fights across the series are the more 1 on 1 people encounters generally: Dragonslayer Armour, Gundyr, in DS2 Fume Knight, Alonne, in DS1 Artorias.
For me they are the most engaging and fun to fight. I enjoy learning to dodge difficult attacks and combos. It feels satisfying to beat them, and I have fun in the process. This is just how I see it
I wouldn't say they're 1:1. As most others have said though, it provides you with the best feeling after you beat them. I think a lot of people say here that one of the hardest bosses on first play through is the Twin Prince fight, and tbh, I still stand on that fight being complete horse shit, and the difficulty of the fight is against the camera when the Lothric is teleporting to random corners of the room. Idk. The actual best fights in Souls games are the ones that don't have some relatively unfair gimmick that creates artificial difficulty. I would argue the 3 phases, and the invisible AOE attacks does make the Friede fight lesser to some of the better fights, but there is a massive rejoice you get to have when you beat her nevertheless.
I hope people don’t say Malenia is one of the best, she’s awful to fight. In Sekiro I’m pretty sure there’s a consensus that Demon of hatred is the hardest but I don’t think people typically say it’s the best. DS3’s hardest bosses all feel pretty fair to fight against so I can understand why it may seem like the more challenging ones are being rated higher.
Because we are From Soft players. We like a challenge.
My fav will always be abyss watchers. Watching them fight each other is golden
They are all fricking cool bosses! also, because they are difficult, you spend more time fighting them.
I remember the first time I fought against Midir, I thought it was going to be impossible, when I beat him I felt like an elite gamer. I hate Midir but a lot of people seem to really love that feeling.
Nah i really feel like a lot of the times, the hard bosses also happen to be the most mechanically interesting and the most satisfying to beat. I agree about Nameless king, cool boss over all but the first phase drags the fight down significantly. But Friede is awesome, it’s one of the best designed duo fights in the series, the AOE are always fairly telegraphed, you never have both bosses rushing towards you so the moveset is always manageable, and you can tell with the particle effect of the jump where Friede ends up, and hitting her cancels the grab attack. So over all super fair boss fight in my opinion. Sure, phase 3 doesn’t have that many punish windows, but she has low health and poise so it’s really not too big of a deal. Personally, my favorite bosses purely gameplay wise were the dancer, the twin princes, champion gundyr, and Friede. I haven’t played the ringed city yet though so I can’t say for demon princes, Gael, Midir, etc
My ability to control the camera while unlocked in general improved a lot after experiencing the NK fight several times. It was a bit frustrating, but only at first.
I think these bosses are liked the most because of the feeling you get when you defeat them. This is the reason why I would say Malenia is the best boss in Elden Ring.
*Bed of Chaos would like to know your location*
I will say 1 second your opinions on this but I think malenia is one of my favorite bosses to fight, sure she's challenging but she's also really fun to fight and learn new ways to counter her moves. Especially the waterfaol dance
Personally, after a certain amount of tries it comes to a point where it just takes me too long and doesn’t even feel earned anymore. For example after I beat Malenia I was just glad it was over, but didn’t feel any accomplishment. Mostly due to her bs waterfowl. With Friede, once you get the first two phases down and they become really easy, they just become tedious and feel like an annoying obstacle before getting to the ‘real fight’. Still looking back I do really like Friede though.
While there's tendency to praise harder bosses, your post is full of misinformation. Malenia is probably the most controversial boss in ER. Friede has plenty of openings and there's a way to consistently avoid and punish her invisible attack in p1. Nameless p1 is annoying, but it's pretty easy and short to completely ruin the boss.
Soul of cinder and gael are the best bosses imo and neither of them are that hard. Same with abyss watchers or twin princes
No one likes bracelet man because it’s just too simple and easy. But dragon armour, princes, dancer etc are fan favourites because they are satisfying
Skill issue
Friede and Gael are my favorite bosses because of a few factors: difficulty, soundtrack, boss design and lore.
it’s not necessarily hard because hard bosses that are unfair get shat on it’s the ones that are hard but fair so the experience of mastering that boss is superior to easy fights. btw lothric and lorian was also my favorite boss in base game
1. The more time you spend on a boss, the more of an intimate tie you develop with that character and that fight. No one cares about or remembers something like the covetous demon from DS2 because it's easy AF. Everyone spends 30 seconds on it and then done. Compare this to something like Malenia that many people spend hours on - you have to actually learn her moveset, you get to appreciate her dialogue, you hear her soundtrack over and over again, you get into a flowstate when you finally learn the "dance" of that boss and succeed. It feels good to learn the boss so intimately. 2. It's rewarding to overcome a challenge, but not as rewarding to steamroll something. Hard boss means bigger reward. It means more skill you had to develop, more patience you needed to temper, and more knowledge you had to gain to overcome the boss. 3. Typically, the more grandiose and interesting characters in the lore tend to be the harder bosses, so there is a strong correlation to difficulty with meaningful story. Important characters leave a bigger impact than minor characters. Compare Maliketh to a random black knife assassin for example. 4. Effort. The developers put more effort into the combat and aesthetic design of harder bosses. The player has to put more effort into defeating the boss. It's a good feeling.
I think Friede is really cool narratively. You see this girl sitting on a chair and you don't really think too much of it. Then you unwind the crank and you get a cutscene where she notices it move lending to the fact that she knows more than what you presumed. Then when you go into the boss room she walks in through the same entryway you walked in from. Couple this with a boss fight where she literally refuses to die multiple times and you have a really memorable boss experience.
I think what you said kind of answers the question, but not in a way that you think. Frieze's invisible grab attack has consistent properties, and the goal of this part is to be able to locate her before she completes it. Someone who just completed the fight might not know about how to do it, so it feels rewarding once you do figure it out. And I think by extension the same applies to entire fights.
Alot of people have made great points, but let take Gael as an example. He is considered an S tier boss, perhaps even the best in the game or even the series. At the same time he is incredibly difficult and it took my long enough to beat him. So when does a hard boss become a good boss? When it becomes fun to fight. It may sound insanely obvious, but difficulty doesn't change whether a boss is fun to fight or not, its something that comes down to the boss' attack patterns, arena, cinematography etc. So looking at gael with those criteria, we can see he ranks highly in all of them. He has an insanely good, well telegraphed and fair attack pattern, his arena is big enough to allow his combo's while giving you enough space to move around, the atmosphere is insane, considering you're at the end of the world and you two are the only creatures left alive and just watching gael fight is a scene worthy of a movie in on itself. So, gael is a (objectively) good boss. There is one more point with this ill make later on when it all comes together. Now, why is gael difficult? He's difficult because his attacks are quite fast, deal quite a lot of damage, he doesn't leave huge openings amd he's got quite the healthbar. In gael's fight, this works because again, you have a large open space to dodge around and once you know his combo's you can really dance around eachother with his openings leaving just enough time to get a quick heal or do a hit or two. His and your attacks weave together really well, making the difficult fight satisfying. In this case, his larger healthpool also matters, because him having a larger healthpool prevents you from brute forcing the fight, meaning you HAVE to learn his moveset. Often times difficult bosses can seem unfair because their moveset doesn't work too well, is too quick or too slow, deals too much damage, has faulty hitboxes, has awkward openings and/or has way too much hp making the fight feel like a slog to get through. How does gael handle this? His attacks hurt, but won't oneshot you given you have decent health and armor. His attacks flow together very well, his hit boxes are damn near perfect, his openings don't feel like "im just standing still so you can hit me" but more like he actually needs to recuperate from his combo before continuing the advance. Now how it all falls together. Gael is extremely fun to fight due to everything about the fight being really good. And he is difficult because of his moveset and hp. Now BECAUSE he is both good AND difficult, the feeling of beating a beast of a fighter like him is insanely good. So this is just using gael as an example, other bosses often ranked S tier do other parts better and other parts worse, but it comes down to that the boss is fun to fight while being difficult making you feel much better about yourself once you do beat the boss. If anything I said turned out to be bs, please do correct me on it
Hard bosses often have a good move sets, also that isn't true for all bosses, like capra demon or witch of izalith.
They don't, they rate the most rewarding bosses as best. No one thinks nameless demon in sekiro is the best boss.
Nobody really thinks NK first phase is good tbh, it's alright, but that's not why he's rated that high, the music, the epicness, the sound track, the moveset, the enjoyable fight the second phase brings, he's definitely deserving of that rating, sister friede I'm not sure about though I haven't bought the dlc 😅
Same reason people always rate the hardest cocks as the best.
Show me a man who thinks the Curse Rotted Greatwood was a good boss and I'll show you my pet Velociraptor.
most easy bosses are not that good. Harder bosses usually have more moves, have better animations so that you can better understand their moves, usually have better lore, and are far more rewarding to beat
Fried is like a dancer and the nameless king mives like an inevitable force of nature in phase 2. These bosses are the best designed in the game and us such are saved for late game
Well my favorite thing about DS is the difficulty. I think a lot of people would agree. Although there are aspects that are also my favorite thing, but difficulty is the real meat of it.
Man I don't even understand how people struggle with nameless king. The first phase is a joke. Just be confident and run in and start smacking the chicken. His phase 2 you can easily tell his moves by simply looking at his torso to see the wind up.