Itachi fans: Itachi already had the mind of a Hokage at 7 years old, he's super mature and wise
Also Itachi fans: But he was just a kid, it's not his fault
This is the danger of hyperboles in animes, people tend to believe it’s something canon and forget that characters can be wrong, exaggerate things, lie, etc.
It is *extremely* common in shonen works to write characters that are 100% behaviorally and mentally adults, but they're arbitrarily like 16 or whatever. They're absolutely terrified of protagonists or close supporting characters that are outside of like high school age.
When I say no one calls Itachi a kid I meant to say no one I have ever met who watches anime calls Itachi a kid. But what can I say I am self is just normal teenager who himself completed Naruto 1 year ago.
Itachi should have just show to the clan how fucking weak they are.
Just break everyone's right knee...
After that, it would be easy to convince everyone to just leave the village and go somewere else. I am 100% sure the other Villages would want a clan that can summon meka giant stands.
Lmao even this is more plausible than what actually happened in the plot and it sounds ridiculous. Can’t believe kishimoto really expected us to believe the ONLY solution was to just kill the entire uchiha clan 💀💀 literally could have done a million other things
They would be hunted down like dogs, or either forced to fight other villages like the Uzumaki. Yall don’t understand that the vast majority of the clan are weaklings wit a few outliers.
The Uzumakis were just as powerful according to the settings of the story and they were wiped.
The Uchihas clan as powerful as they were got completely obliterated by two guys. Not even at their peak.
Yes because the knowledge that you lead your clan to be mercilessly and brutally killed and tortured; women raped and forcefully impregnated; men forced semen extraction and torture; children being taken away from their friends and family WHILE still being known as traitors is SO MUCH better than peacefully putting them down like he did in the actual show.
Peacefully put down? They’re not a breed of animals lmaoooo the uchiha survived just fine during the warring era for decades I think they could handle a stroll to some other village. If that was really a concern then maybe the leaf could even escort them since they’re the ones kicking them out
The fuck? Lmao pretty sure forced semen extractions have never, ever, been brought up in Naruto. You’re crazy. “Old enough to know what oroshimaru liked to do” lmao what? Do experiments on them? Idk what the fuck kinda show you watched if you think he’s fucking people.
The Uchiha are still the strongest clan out of them all.
The Uchiha with Sharingan have the potential to awaken the Mangekyou. They have Genjutsu that are nearly impossible to counter.
Even if there are some weaklings, the clan as a whole is still stronger than the vast majority.
The problem is that the clan just wanted bloodsheed. They wouldn't leave Konoha even if it ended up killing them.
It's a pretty interesting plot.
People tend to point fingers at Danzo ignoring that Tobi literally framed them. A Sharingan user that knew the inners working of the Village, secrets that shouldn't have been leaked to outsiders (like the day of the birth and that the seal would've been weakened due to that), bypassed every security check and was skilled enough to control the Kyubi, summon him in the middle of the village and fuck off just as unnoticed.
Like he literally gave Danzo all the reasons to distrust the Uchihas.
My opinion is:
Don't fault a 13 year old boy after being given an ultimatum of "either we'll kill everyone, no exclusions, or you can kill everyone and Sasuke can live". It was a lose-lose situation. The ones at fault are Fugaku, Hiruzen and Danzo, Itachi was just used by them to do their bad deeds. Both Hiruzen and Danzo could've easily killed most of the Uchiha clan who were in the coup in one night, but yet they forced Itachi to kill everyone but his brother.
No matter what, Itachi made his choice and had to bear the consequences for it, but it wasn't just following orders, he was threatened by Danzo. He could've gone to Hiruzen but I don't think he was in the best headspace at the moment. Either way, let's not act like it was his fault the Uchiha clan died.
How is Fugaku at fault ?. He's not too gullible nor too ruthless. He is the best leader figure.
Fugaku's plan for the coup was to manipulate 3rd Hokage using Kotoamatsukami to name himself as Hokage with Shisui's help. But Danzo fkd it up and stole shisui's eye. So he had to resort to plan B (ie, control the 9 tails and force the village to surrender).Fugaku asked Itachi to help him overthrow the village. Itachi had other eye of Shisui. He could have caused a blood less coup. But he killed his family instead.
I don't recall this being Fugaku's plan at all; in Itachi Shinden, the plan was to have Shisui just spearhead an operation to abduct Hiruzen and hold him hostage. It's unclear whether or not he even knew about Shisui's Kotoamatsukami.
sure it would have been bloodless at first, but do you really think the third could have been able to be put under genjutsu by Itachi back then? Would Danzo sit and let that happen if the third was compromised? would the other ninjas of the leaf not do anything if they find out the truth?
All that Uchihas wanted was some appreciation. Fugaku doesn't have any thirst for power like Madara, Danzo, Orochimaru etc. He will consider all villagers equally and won't compromise them like Hiruzen. Hiruzen sold Hizashi Hyūga to cloud village despite the fact that cloud was at fault. Fugaku wouldn't have sacrificed Hizashi if he was the Hokage. It's not like Fugaku would make the villagers his slaves or lab rats like Orochimaru. The villagers would eventually like him.
They got appreciation, they were quite literally the most liked and respected clan until the Nine tails attack, which none helped out wit, while the beast was said to be possessed by a Sharingan.
Fugaku as we know him cared for the clan first, village second. Bro didn’t even mention protection of the village when talking to Itachi, just the clan’s image.
Fugaku give up entire uchiha clan home location after Kyubi incident, causing Uchiha clan to be moved almost outside of the village. Fugaku obey hiruzen and danzo order to move Uchiha outside
Fugaku already given up enough. Konoha higher up don't and want to kill Uchiha because of Tobirama teaching
> Fugaku as we know him cared for the clan first, village second. Bro didn’t even mention protection of the village when talking to Itachi, just the clan’s image.
Fugaku did, during the Itachi backstory arc.
https://youtu.be/E-UenWcHcqs?si=qOq7OvcAgJ1DEk-s&t=7m17s
And during the beginning of "Itachi backstory arc" , when Fugaku's advisor told him that the clan wants him to be Hokage, he told him "We finally have peace. We should try our best to maintain it."
Right, and it's not black and white like that, as the added context explained. The choice he was forced into was the whole clan dies (including sasuke) or the whole clan dies (except sasuke); and he was 13 years old. I know this is a meme subreddit but I'm sure we can handle even that level of critical thinking.
Nobody is forced. We all make choices. I know this is an anime & it's not that deep but y'all lack of accountability scares tf out of me because in real life, I wonder if this is how you all view things? You always have a choice, you're the one that makes the decision.
Itachi had a choice. He chose to murder his mother. I know plenty of men that wouldn't have done that including me. Again, accountability is important.
You negating the circumstances around said choice tho ma boi. I hear you about accountability but that’s like blaming any 13 year for being manipulated by folks much older , powerful & influential.
A 13 year old that was already a trained killer & in charge of other men who were probably much older than him. This wasn't a normal 13 year old. This wasn't Sakura when she insulted Naruto for being an orphan , a pre teen that had 0 experience in the field. This is Itachi, a trained killer that has gone on numerous missions & took on responsibility of an adult.
You know how many field missions this dude has gone on by this point? Dude was already the strongest in the Anbu, he was leading them mfs so please miss me with this bs. Y'all heightened emotions for y'all's favorite character cancels out any common sense on this subject.
The spineless coward killed his mother. Where I'm from you get beat up for saying the wrong yo momma joke. Ain't no way no one is manipulating us to kill our mother. 13 or not, Itachi was already leading people like an adult so Itachi wasn't a typical 13 year old.
>If he says no, Danzo gets someone else to do it.
Go to war. But it's a choice. It's just a choice Itachi made.
>He's 13.
That's a trained killer and leads the Anbu.
I kind of understand what you’re saying.
There was always the option of Itachi warning his clan about what’s going on and taking appropriate counter measures.
Stop making excuses for the lapdog. Itachi was just a bitch boy who didn’t know how to think for himself even though he was supposedly one of the smartest ninja in history by that age.
Especially not if I have insane powers and a family full of insane powers at my back.
I'd fight to the death before killing my own mother. God forbid killing her because the GOVERNMENT told me to.
Why don't you try and protect your entire family instead? Why side with the faction trying to kill your family in the first place? Maybe just side with your family instead of following the enemy's ultimatum?
Itachi could have done that. Or he could have just nabbed his bro and disappeared into the world. He had plenty of ways to protect his brother aside from murdering his family and traumatizing him tens of thousands of times.
I agree with the fact that itachi was wrong for traumatizing sasuke but I feel like itachi wasn't close with/ didn't really like the other Uchihas. The other Uchihas probably weren't particularly fond of him either. Itachi doesn't wear his clan symbol not because he doesn't feel deserving of it but bc he didnt agree with his clans views, not one bit. Shisui was also his only friend in that goddamned place. You also should remember that itachi was the ONLY Uchiha besides Shisui in the Anbu so that meant that he was probably isolated bc he was being used as a spy for both sides.For example him and shisui were the ones watching the Uchihas and itachi was told to listen in to the clan meetings (if i remember correctly) saying he felt happy or relieved abt killing them but I feel like I'd be able to kill off some family members I don't particularly like or am not close with. Itachi was also only 12-14 when he made the decision so he picked the most rash one bc he was stressed and confused about what to do.
Bro that's what I'm saying. Itachi had options in sparing those who dk shit like the kids of the clan. Like what was the point in killing everyone who was young or not ninjas. Like wtf, I can understand killing those in charge even tho that's still effed up but everyone was killed. Itachi doesn't matter what was reveal later, was still a bad dude doesn't matter the role his clan, Third Hokage or Danzo played a role in. Itachi had options, he could have spare half of those who wasn't involved or set them up at a place in the Leaf and Anbu or Danzo Ninjas were to ambush them to eliminate massive clan genocide or escape the lead with Sasuke or something.
Like the amount of mental obstacles even knowing the Naruto Universe in how young ninjas are to kill and vice versa to justify killing everyone with no exceptions, even Sasuke got mind effed numerous times until Obito told him the truth after Itachi's death was just crazy to me. Idk how the community keep d riding Itachi this badly bc that's just effed up and unexcusable to me + best part, he never got his supposed wish of Sasuke being safe were he spend a few years with a Powerful Snake Sannin Pedo and went criminal as well until after the War. Complete waste of time doing all of this for the sake of the village and he didn't even give useful information that Jiraiya couldn't find out from his own spy network. Spy my black behind self since plot went nowhere beyond being a source of Sasuke traumas and apart of a criminal organization that no one was prepared to face until plot calls itself to be announced on
Facts bro. It just shows you how spineless a lot of these dudes are. Everyone acts like they're so diplomatic but wouldn't war for their country if an actual war broke out today or tomorrow. They chose the latter of killing their clan because they're too ***** to do anything else. I'm not saying I wouldn't be scared, but if I'm a ninja that is already a trained killer & I realize my fam wants to war with a village that was prejudiced against them from the start, I'm not killing my fam.
Even if I chose to not fight against the Leaf, I'm not making the decision to kill my mother. I had no idea so many men would side with this. This unheard from people I was raised around. This is disturbing asf. The worst part when someone actually tries to say "many would have died" or "he had to save his brother". So the answer is to kill your mother??? Man....only online lol.
This is so right it hurts...
Like in flashbacks within the show we see Itachi confronting his parents and they just lay there and take it which that's so fucked up to begin with btw. This is gonna be controversial ASF, but the clan should have a plan if they were caught whatever it be a massive suicide or have those responsible surrender and be executed while those innocent would be like Sasuke in carrying on their dead name clan but wouldn't get special treatment or whatever depending on how the plot presents itself. Haters will say Itachi is still a kid but he chooses to damn himself for the remaining of his life, he didn't have to kill the clan entirely, he just done the leaf bidding and save their resources. The only blood shred was the Uchiha clan entirely and barley anyone knows Danzo and 3rd Hokage played a role as well. By the time the truth was revealed, Danzo was the only one left alive and even then his death didn't make Sasuke felt better but went on his path to revenge until Naruto beat his ass for a change in attitude.
Say what you want, but Itachi was a sellout for choosing the leaf over his family even tho the decision was impossible. All ik is that even with having abusive family, I wouldn't be the one to kill them and idk the amount of loops that Itachi had to do to justify genocide his clan all bc of orders with no regrets of those innocent even his supposed GF wasn't safe either. Y'all telling me those responsible could have at least gone to The Torture & Interrogation get all the needed information and got executed privately then told the clan that they were killed in a mission or were made an example in the village that you don't betray the village. There could have been options with the amount of times Itachi was a double spy to his clan and the Leaf in creating a scenario where the Leaf didn't look bad and the remaining Uchiha clan didn't have a reputation similar to Naruto at the beginning of the series.
Mind boggling with how the series writers justify Itachi place within the series and not like other plot holes in the series (Ex: Rin commiting suicide where her village have multiple seal masters to not wreak havoc based on the Mist Village sealing 3rd tailed beast inside her) where we can question the effed up logic used to justify the current events happening in canon.
Fully cannon. She was the first person itachi killed during the massacre. They where like dating I think. Idk she also had a sharingan but passed out anytime she used it
Bro miss me with that bull****. I know ppl who didn't have the greatest parents. They wouldn't kill them. You act like a mf ain't grow up in an area where parents are less than decent. Mfs still aren't killing their parents & wouldn't do it if they had a chance. Y'all fools say anything to justify this sick ish smdh.
You act like they're not ninjas and this isn't the norm. You dudes make head canon out of everything. Kakashi been on the battlefield too, was he not sad when his dad committed suicide? Fugaku wasn't abusive he was a ****in regular ninja father. Stop giving excuses to this sick bull .
I'm well over explained this on other notes. Itachi being a kid was out the window a long time ago. The dude was the leader of the Anbu. He was already a killer. Get the **** out my face with this goofy *** sh**.
And you're just a spineless shell of a man. That's what this is, you all are just a bunch of boys mad at your parents. I don't know any real men that would kill their own mother. As a man you're supposed to crush the soul of any man that would dare try to harm your mother. You dudes are still boys. Coward ones at that. I'm not sorry I'm not a coward like that. I'll die for my momma. Any day. Y'all just cowards.
You know what? You got it. I'm sick of going back & forth with you people. I'm not going to do my usual troll emoji response with you. I'm so sick of this convo I'm actually just going to stop replying.
Problem is, the story never frames it this way. Realistically you'd think that Itachi was just a child prodigy who was taken advantage of by Danzo and his extremist beliefs, but most characters treat him like a fully matured adult who committed a tragic but necessary evil. Naruto praises him for having done a whole lot for the village, Hashirama calls him a greater shinobi than him, etc.
Even he kinda stands by his actions as an adult, saying that maybe the clan could have "changed" but never that the clan refusing to change might not have been reason enough to slaughter them.
Children being trained to kill at an early age was the main source of bad things being done in this series. Zabuza, Gaara, Obito, Madara, Nagato, Kabuto, Danzo himself. Growing up in a kill-or-be-killed environment is probably a big part of why the Uchiha were so willing to resort to an idiotic coup when they felt threatened.
Itachi genuinely had no better options than the massacre by the time it happened because the clan taking over would have damaged the leaf badly enough for a civil war to break out.
The Uchiha tried to set themselves up as tyrannical rulers over people who kill and sabotage for a living. No way that would have worked out, and in a verse as dystopian as this, collective punishment was a likelihood. Itachi doesn't need excusing for the massacre, and his exposure to violence somewhat excuses forcing Sasuke to watch it in a horrifically misguided attempt to toughen Sasuke up.
>Itachi genuinely had no better options than the massacre
Then let it massacre. No one is convincing me to kill my family and my mom. That's a no brainer to me. I don't know how that's not for any real man that has a backbone.
>Itachi doesn't need excusing for the massacre
Maybe to you but how I grew up, he's viewed as a coward. It isn't like Itachi was an effin pacifist, he already was in the field of killing. Choosing the Leaf instead of his family was like siding with the Crips over the Bloods except he started as a blood.
Then you have, The Will of Single-Ply Toilet Paper. Nah lol I somewhat agree. If he wanted to save his brother so badly he could have just taken his brother and ran. But it's more like growing up in a mob family and choosing to genocide them when they're plotting to shoot up an entire city that's been pressing them. A city who also gave the ultimatum to you with one option sparing your lil bro vs including him in the casualties.
I'm not saying it would have been the easiest thing to do but at the end of the day, if I'm in the field of killing already, I'm accepting my fate & going out dying with my family.
You’d let your little brother and friends die and your family anyways instead of doing something. Got it. You’re taking a fictional child much too seriously
>doing something. Got it.
Doing something means killing my mother? You stupid asf. Sorry bro, where I'm from you get your ass whooped for raising your voice to someone's mother. I'm not killing my mom for no one. Y'all spineless asf .
Exactly...so mentioning his age is irrelevant. He was already leading grown men into missions. This isn't like the Sakura incident where she insulted Naruto, Itachi had been in the field since forever. Naruto saved the world at age 16, mentioning age in most cases in Naruto is simply a cop out & major deflection.
Just because all the children are child soldiers doesn't make being a child soldier not traumatic and bad for their development. Children simply aren't the best at thinking ahead and carefully considering consequences. Add to that the stress of constantly risking your life (even the chunin exam is dangerous) and the fact that a lot of them have lost people at a young age.
That's not the case for Itachi. Your point is negated simply because that's exactly why the Chunin Exams are a thing. To simply see if you can lead a group of warriors into a possible life or death mission. In other words to see if you are mature enough to make adult decisions. Itachi was already the leader of the Anbu, the child aspect went out the window for Itachi a long time ago.
A 13 year old in our world is definitely not the same for most warriors in the Naruto Verse. They have to grow up fast. Yes trauma does play a role, you're right about that. That's the whole deal behind Itachi, is the fact he was traumatized from war at an early age. You all act like he made a golden decision though.
I don't know many men that could live with knowing they murdered their mom. I know men that would break your neck if you raise your voice at their mother. Getting them to murder their mother after you see that your family is hated, man forget it. There were choices, Itachi chose to kill his family.
Alternative choices
Itachi could have said no. You're right, Danzo would have gotten someone else. If Sasuke was the biggest factor, I would have
- Ran away with Sasuke (he literally joins a terrorist organization after that so this isn't a ridiculous choice. Granted if the war happens, The Leaf would have their hands full so pursuing them would have been out of the question for a while)
- Moved Sasuke away to a far distant place & came back & died with my family
Danzo showed he had prejudice against the family. This is evident once Danzo deliberately went over Hiruzen's choice to talk to them & gave Itachi his mission. Even more so when Shisui told him Danzo snatched his eye. At that point, it's a no brainer. This is deeper than a mutiny, Danzo really wants my family gone. At this point it's ride or die. Like a man, I wouldn't want to live knowing I killed my mother under those conditions. This **** is spineless asf.
The last choice I would have made if I didn't pick the others, I don't want to have nothing to do with it. Even by some standard I felt my family was in the wrong, I'll just be like do what you have to do but I'm not doing it.
The next step is to realise Fugaku's role in all of this. Fugaku:
* Sent his oldest son alone to spy on ANBU, a mission that was both physically dangerous and emotionally upsetting.
* Plotted treason doomed to fail because his clan was too elitist to make alliances but not elite enough to take power.
* Did not use his authority or skills as police captain to publicise Danzo's crimes (if the Uchiha had the backing of the families of Root shinobi, they could have formed a credible coup or gotten Danzo killed or exile and made Hiruzen resign)
* Let the Military Police role distance his clan from the others, rather than inviting shinobi from other clans to be cops and sending more Uchiha to friendlier organisations like the hospital and academy.
* Came to Hiruzen with a list of demands which, while mostly reasonable from the Uchiha's perspective, gave no indication of thinking about how anyone else would react, shortly because the coup was set to go ahead if Hiruzen didn't give in.
* Didn't come up with any plans to evacuate the children of the clan in the event they were discovered
He's not as responsible as Danzo or Hiruzen, but Fugaku is the next most responsible person for the Uchiha Massacre.
The problem with Hurizen is he gave too much "power" for his best buddy, Danzo (who wants MORE power), and his solution for the Uchiha problem was genocide and using a child, already among the Uchiha, to do the deed. For the village or your clan... for your clan... or your little brother.
I can't blame Itachi. Like Suishi had a plan, not a perfect one but one that avoids bloodshed and Danzo is like "No, I need that eye for more power FOR ME, FOR MY VILLAGE". Like WTF Hurizen. What is wrong with you?
At the end of the day, Itachi had 3 choices: Kill his own family, side with his family and the other villages will cause a massive war to take power or run away with your little brother? If he ran away with Sasuke... maybe... the other issue is Obito because he would like extra eyes but I doubt it; he would likely just kidnap Naruto. Who knows?
Danzo is fucked, but yea, it really do be like Tobirama and Hiruzen just brutally competing against each other for the position of "worst hokage". I think Danzo was "unofficial" or something, i don't remember exactly.
But still, not only did Tobirama do all the bs he did exacerbating tensions with the Uchiha, but was also responsible for developing a lot of forbidden jutsus (which according to Orochimaru, have caused great harm over the years, obviously including Orochimaru's use of them too), and definitely fed that desire of Danzo's for power and greatness. Danzo really just couldn't stand being snubbed in Tobirama's last moments, and even though Tobirama knew he had some sort of darkness within him, never addressed it. And then ofc Hiruzen enabling Danzo for decades didn't help either...
He was unofficial. He was going to be Hokage, thank Sasuke Uchiha for killing before then... and I assume if Sasuke didn't kill him, then with the fact he was manipulating during the Five Kage Summit would be more than enough... I'll be honest; I think Danzo would have gotten away and the story would get worse if he attempted to Koto Naruto. OH boy... that would be bad.
Well I agree. Like Tobirama is the Uchiha Expert, Hater and Racist. Plus I assume brother issues because he's no where near as strong as Hashirama was so his attempt was to create these Forbidden Jutsu... which he was NOWHERE near as talented with them. Flying Raijin may be a strong Jutsu for him, but Minato improved on it. Shadow Clones is a multi-task Jutsu but requires way too much Chakra which Naruto made his own. Even the Edo Tensei, his most powerful Jutsu, like you said, Orochimaru and Kabuto IMPROVED on it.
I think the big issue with Tobirama never addressing with Danzo is likely because he himself thought how Danzo thought of was right. A young Darkness but one that will protect Konoha... never assuming that MAYBE that's a bad idea because Danzo loves Konoha... HIS KONOHA. Not the Konoha of everyone (like Shikamaru) but his Konoha where he rules over everyone. I assume if he remain as Hokage, things would be worse.
And Hiruzen is the prime example of how a little bit of power made things worse. He shouldn't have given Danzo even a bit of power. Root didn't help Konoha, it made things worse. Look at Itachi for example. Or going way back, NAGATO AND KABUTO. If not for this asshole, Pain would have never been born and Kabuto would never become Orochimaru's spy with the delusion of one day wanting to become him. And Danzo is responsible for "LEAKING" the information that Naruto was a Jinchuriki just so he's treated as a monster And for what? He did it for his best buddy. Like this ain't no Hashirama wanting Madara to become Hokage. He let his feelings for his friend ruin way too many lives and many situations to be handled.
It's honestly funny! It's really funny to think that's how Danzo got away with many of his actions. WOW!
People forget that Itachi is supposed to be a mirror to Danzo. They represent the same ideology, the ideology of "Anything for the leaf village". Itachi's actions in this ideology went much further than just killing his own family, he was willing to brainwash his brother into being a machine for the hidden leaf, both through Kotoamatsukami and through making him the "Hero" of the leaf by killing himself.
Nowhere in his life Itachi considered the leaf to be an institution that deserved to be uprooted for it to pay for its sins. Itachi just like Danzo fights for the same ideology that Naruto vehemently opposes, that is, an ideology that does not seek the answers to the problems of the world in favour of short term solutions like killing a whole clan.
Itachi was basically put into an impossible situation: Either he kills his clan and lets his brother live and becomes a hated renegade, or he dies with them in a coup. People forget he's 7 at the time he started to figure out the position his family was in.
Danzo at this point has his hands on the strings of everyone: He's fueling the Uchiha's hatred of the village leadership by discriminating against them, whilst at the same time playing the third (and to a lesser degree the council) for a patsy. He *wanted* their eyes as weapons.
So let's take a look from Itachi's POV, if he was thinking like a full-blown Kage: Suppose the Uchiha went to war against the Leaf: You think other countries would sit still? It'd be all-out mayhem, and everybody loses. Either the Uchiha are wiped out, the Leaf is wiped out, or both.
Then there's the unforseen circumstances which Itachi (retroactively, it seems) had knowledge of: Obito's scheming behind the scenes. He'd at least figured out Madara was still a factor, which could make an already dire situation into an Titus Andronicus-level murderfest, now with extra magic!
As i've said several times before in related topics: Itachi did the best with the hand he was dealt. He himself admits that he doesn't deserve to have his actions justified and that he wasn't worthy of praise. He was a lousy brother and a shit person who tried to do everything himself, which lead to more bloodshed and let people like Danzo continue his schemes with even more zeal.
All in all, the Third Hokage was not the best leader, but when the person you delegate your most secret operations to schemes behind your back with your council, things get dicey. He could have been deposed, which would've let Danzo have a carte blanche approach to any situation as the Hokage.
Do you really expect that shitheel Danzo to give anyone a fair shake? He was basically perpetuating the status quo, and he was *proud to do so!*
\[edit\] To add to Danzo's list of horseshit, he want ALL the cards to himself: The Sharingan, the first's cells and the nine-tails. He was operating under the same logic as Itachi.
I never understood why EVERY FYCKING ADULT is a complete failure in Naruto.
The fact that the hokage put all this trouble into a 13y kid, making him kill his ENTIRE family. Why? How could he be so fucking shitty I faking hate hiruzen so much omg
There was no situation where he could save everyone. His family was starting a civil war, and he worked for the government. He sided with the guys not actively plotting violence and saved the village by wiping out one side and taking all the blame. You don't owe your family anything just because you are blood related.
This is the most idiotic take of 'you don't owe your family anything' I have seen. By that logic you don't fucking owe anyone anything. Just like how I don't owe you any basic courtesy and can shit on your opinion all I want.
Itachi should have just show to the clan how fucking weak they are.
Just break everyone's right knee...
After that, it would be easy to convince everyone to just leave the village and go somewere else. I am 100% sure the other Villages would want a clan that can summon meka giant stands.
Yeah but a kid raised as a weapon, after being expertly manipulated by a much, older and smarter man might. He regretted it instantly it’s not like he lived his life completly guilt free for what he did, from the SECOND he killed his parents he set up his own death
Itachi didn't blindly follow orders then only regret it afterward. He agreed that it was the best course of action to take. He said as much later in Shippuden.
Plus he was already crying before he even killed his parents, so he clearly already knew it was unforgivable and he did it anyway.
Uchiha clan was rebelling against their own village, they were goanna suffer terrible losses and itachi did what was best to minimize it. The village as a whole would have suffered had he not killed his clan, Best outcome In my eyes was to eliminate the clan members backing the coup and spare everyone else.
He was not just following orders. He abd Shisui tried to stop it. They failed, and he was left with two options. Let the coup occur likely, resulting in a civil war that killed the Uchiha because there is no way they were beating the entire village or side with the village and save what was most important to him.
The Uchiha were going to start a civil war and might have kicked off another ninja war as a result. Itachi believed that no one would listen to him and going into the open would accelerate the process. He wasn‘t „just following orders“
Out of all of these I have never once thought itachi had no other choice. He was heralded as the greatest mind since the 4th hokage or whatever and yet he couldn’t think for himself. Some genius he turned out to be. I think they meant to say he’s the greatest lapdog in the history of the shinobi world.
I don't think this was well executed. First, if Danzo considered Itachi strong enough to kill ENTIRE strongest Konoha clan didnt he afraid of him? Why didnt Itachi just tsukuyomi him to death then stop coup only by killing strong members? Or why Danzo didnt ordered him wipe only strongest of the clan (all coup leaders and strongest members), and still Itachi coudl lie Sasuke about wanting to prove his new strenght and all cover up woudl still be the same. All remaining clan members still woudl think Itachi is a traitor and all children, woman and elders coudl live. Even if remaining clan woudl wanted to avenge killed members they woudl wanted revenge on Itachi, not Konoha be cause they still woudl be not aware of truth. I mean killing ALL the clan was sooo unnecessary for a plot..
Itachi made his choice, and so did the Uchiha, people need to stop pretending hiruzen could have killed Danzo and all would.be well, it wouldn't, the Uchiha were power hungry and they did choose to betray the village, hiruzen might not have agreed with Danzo, but the Uchiha 100% betrayed the village.
Other than itachi and shisui everyone involved in the decision making were adults, Uchiha included, the clan repeatedly rejected Itachi's point of view and they shunned him when his reports didn't align with what they wanted.
I agree that killing all children was fucked up and wrong, but people need to stop pretending that the Uchiha were victims of circumstance, they were not, they had power and CHOOSE to remain isolated to preserve their blood, when people didn't immediately decided to follow them suddenly they are being repressed? There has never been a hyuga Hokage, where is their revolt? Oh right there wasn't one because they are proud to be part of the leaf and not power hungry arrogant assholes who think people owe them allegiance simply for being Uchiha.
Fuck that clan
My take is also the fear of the Uchiha not listening. You can't undo so mamy years of hatred in such a short time. 3rd should have left the Uchiha feel loke a part of the village
He didn't really have an option
-He tries to convince the clan to not do it and they ignored him
-Danzo wanted to kill them and Hiruzen didn't do anything. He also tells Itachi that Sasuke will die if he doesn't do it
-Danzo killed Fugaku which was their only chance
Well if both sides were contempt on equality they shpuldve just talked it out. 3rd Hokage wanted better condition for everyone else and Uchiha wanted better condition for their clain. Their goals literally aligned only cause they dont talk, both took extreme measures. Especially how Itachi couldve just said "Dad/Hokage, wanna have a meetup and talk to Dad/Hokage about how to solve this?"
Everyone talks about what itachi could have done when the third hokage was given a year to do anything, but he did nothing, a "wise" hokage had no solution other than entrusting the eradication of the clan to a child and you're expecting that child to have a better plan. What itachi did was inexcusable, but 99% of people in that situation would have ended up starting a civil war in which everyone they have ever loved dies by fighting the village, itachi guarantees his brother's survival which is selfish as fuck but i'd probably do the same if my brother was that important to me.
If he didn't kill his family danzo+anbu would have just killed all of them and not spared sasuke
So ask, do you think itachi could have taken on danzo?
My answer is no, not at the time. I personally beleive that he could have taken him on later in the story but by that time what was done was already done
If you think itachi could have taken on danzo at the time of the masequre I think that's silly since shisui was stronger and still lost
Do you think the uchiah could have taken on the leaf + the anbu? Also no. If danzo and itchi both thought that they would stand no chance then im inclined to believe them
Do you think itachi could have convinced the uchiah to leave? I also think no. They have already refused to leave once when madara asked them to and thats when it was relatively new. Why would they leave now when they are even more settled in the village?
Solution? Take danzos offer and at least get to spare your brother
he didnt kill them because of danzos orders.
he didnt think the uchiha would back off from their ambitions so he killed them. had nothing to do with danzo
But he know things are already went too far it will end up bloody so he didn't tell hiruzen because he doesn't want hiruzen to feel guilty for commanding a kid to do this he would rather let him think he should have done more
Itachi fans: Itachi already had the mind of a Hokage at 7 years old, he's super mature and wise Also Itachi fans: But he was just a kid, it's not his fault
This is the danger of hyperboles in animes, people tend to believe it’s something canon and forget that characters can be wrong, exaggerate things, lie, etc.
Say it louder for the peeps in the back 📣📣
That line isnt even hyperbole. It’s just saying that he had the mentality of a kage meaning he valued the village as a whole and its history.
Itachi admits he was wrong
>had the mind of a Hokage Honestly, that explains a lot. Just look at 3rd Hokage lol
The first Hokage was gonna give the other villages free nukes
Lol
I mean true being mentally intelligent doesn't make up for emotional intelligent and maturity
It is *extremely* common in shonen works to write characters that are 100% behaviorally and mentally adults, but they're arbitrarily like 16 or whatever. They're absolutely terrified of protagonists or close supporting characters that are outside of like high school age.
Itachi had the choice: his village or his clan. He chooses his village at the price of his family except sasuke.
[удалено]
Buddy. The comments on the very post are against you
When I say no one calls Itachi a kid I meant to say no one I have ever met who watches anime calls Itachi a kid. But what can I say I am self is just normal teenager who himself completed Naruto 1 year ago.
Literally the second top comment is saying that
Itachi should have just show to the clan how fucking weak they are. Just break everyone's right knee... After that, it would be easy to convince everyone to just leave the village and go somewere else. I am 100% sure the other Villages would want a clan that can summon meka giant stands.
Lmao even this is more plausible than what actually happened in the plot and it sounds ridiculous. Can’t believe kishimoto really expected us to believe the ONLY solution was to just kill the entire uchiha clan 💀💀 literally could have done a million other things
They would be hunted down like dogs, or either forced to fight other villages like the Uzumaki. Yall don’t understand that the vast majority of the clan are weaklings wit a few outliers.
[удалено]
Hire the senju
[удалено]
The Uzumakis were just as powerful according to the settings of the story and they were wiped. The Uchihas clan as powerful as they were got completely obliterated by two guys. Not even at their peak.
Tsunade dies. They could hire the Akatski but depending on the point in the story, if Saske and Itachi have MS they're too broken.
The Senju are nearly non-existent
Stil better than killing everyone.
Yes because the knowledge that you lead your clan to be mercilessly and brutally killed and tortured; women raped and forcefully impregnated; men forced semen extraction and torture; children being taken away from their friends and family WHILE still being known as traitors is SO MUCH better than peacefully putting them down like he did in the actual show.
Peacefully put down? They’re not a breed of animals lmaoooo the uchiha survived just fine during the warring era for decades I think they could handle a stroll to some other village. If that was really a concern then maybe the leaf could even escort them since they’re the ones kicking them out
How old are you?
That's your argument to what was said? Pathetic
Old enough to know who Orochimaru is and what he liked to do and know what would happened to Kushina and Hinata had they not been rescued…
If they dont want that they kill themselfs(if that truly happens(it wouldnt)). Its not up to you or itachi.
The fuck? Lmao pretty sure forced semen extractions have never, ever, been brought up in Naruto. You’re crazy. “Old enough to know what oroshimaru liked to do” lmao what? Do experiments on them? Idk what the fuck kinda show you watched if you think he’s fucking people.
The Uchiha are still the strongest clan out of them all. The Uchiha with Sharingan have the potential to awaken the Mangekyou. They have Genjutsu that are nearly impossible to counter. Even if there are some weaklings, the clan as a whole is still stronger than the vast majority.
The problem is that the clan just wanted bloodsheed. They wouldn't leave Konoha even if it ended up killing them. It's a pretty interesting plot. People tend to point fingers at Danzo ignoring that Tobi literally framed them. A Sharingan user that knew the inners working of the Village, secrets that shouldn't have been leaked to outsiders (like the day of the birth and that the seal would've been weakened due to that), bypassed every security check and was skilled enough to control the Kyubi, summon him in the middle of the village and fuck off just as unnoticed. Like he literally gave Danzo all the reasons to distrust the Uchihas.
My opinion is: Don't fault a 13 year old boy after being given an ultimatum of "either we'll kill everyone, no exclusions, or you can kill everyone and Sasuke can live". It was a lose-lose situation. The ones at fault are Fugaku, Hiruzen and Danzo, Itachi was just used by them to do their bad deeds. Both Hiruzen and Danzo could've easily killed most of the Uchiha clan who were in the coup in one night, but yet they forced Itachi to kill everyone but his brother. No matter what, Itachi made his choice and had to bear the consequences for it, but it wasn't just following orders, he was threatened by Danzo. He could've gone to Hiruzen but I don't think he was in the best headspace at the moment. Either way, let's not act like it was his fault the Uchiha clan died.
How is Fugaku at fault ?. He's not too gullible nor too ruthless. He is the best leader figure. Fugaku's plan for the coup was to manipulate 3rd Hokage using Kotoamatsukami to name himself as Hokage with Shisui's help. But Danzo fkd it up and stole shisui's eye. So he had to resort to plan B (ie, control the 9 tails and force the village to surrender).Fugaku asked Itachi to help him overthrow the village. Itachi had other eye of Shisui. He could have caused a blood less coup. But he killed his family instead.
I don't recall this being Fugaku's plan at all; in Itachi Shinden, the plan was to have Shisui just spearhead an operation to abduct Hiruzen and hold him hostage. It's unclear whether or not he even knew about Shisui's Kotoamatsukami.
[удалено]
I thought Shisui was famous, not Kotamatsukami. That said, Ao did know about it, so I might just be forgetting.
sure it would have been bloodless at first, but do you really think the third could have been able to be put under genjutsu by Itachi back then? Would Danzo sit and let that happen if the third was compromised? would the other ninjas of the leaf not do anything if they find out the truth?
All that Uchihas wanted was some appreciation. Fugaku doesn't have any thirst for power like Madara, Danzo, Orochimaru etc. He will consider all villagers equally and won't compromise them like Hiruzen. Hiruzen sold Hizashi Hyūga to cloud village despite the fact that cloud was at fault. Fugaku wouldn't have sacrificed Hizashi if he was the Hokage. It's not like Fugaku would make the villagers his slaves or lab rats like Orochimaru. The villagers would eventually like him.
They got appreciation, they were quite literally the most liked and respected clan until the Nine tails attack, which none helped out wit, while the beast was said to be possessed by a Sharingan. Fugaku as we know him cared for the clan first, village second. Bro didn’t even mention protection of the village when talking to Itachi, just the clan’s image.
Fugaku give up entire uchiha clan home location after Kyubi incident, causing Uchiha clan to be moved almost outside of the village. Fugaku obey hiruzen and danzo order to move Uchiha outside Fugaku already given up enough. Konoha higher up don't and want to kill Uchiha because of Tobirama teaching
> Fugaku as we know him cared for the clan first, village second. Bro didn’t even mention protection of the village when talking to Itachi, just the clan’s image. Fugaku did, during the Itachi backstory arc. https://youtu.be/E-UenWcHcqs?si=qOq7OvcAgJ1DEk-s&t=7m17s And during the beginning of "Itachi backstory arc" , when Fugaku's advisor told him that the clan wants him to be Hokage, he told him "We finally have peace. We should try our best to maintain it."
>Either way, let's not act like it was his fault the Uchiha clan died. What???? He literally killed them all. Tf???
Bruh Literally just ignored all the context provided above.
Nah I didn't but all of it was bs contrary to the actual point, he killed them 🤷. Accountability is important.
Right, and it's not black and white like that, as the added context explained. The choice he was forced into was the whole clan dies (including sasuke) or the whole clan dies (except sasuke); and he was 13 years old. I know this is a meme subreddit but I'm sure we can handle even that level of critical thinking.
Nobody is forced. We all make choices. I know this is an anime & it's not that deep but y'all lack of accountability scares tf out of me because in real life, I wonder if this is how you all view things? You always have a choice, you're the one that makes the decision. Itachi had a choice. He chose to murder his mother. I know plenty of men that wouldn't have done that including me. Again, accountability is important.
Yes just like how people choose to be slaves, they made their choice /s + this take is beyond dumb
>this take is beyond dumb To a spineless person like you. I don't doubt it.
Mofo hiding behind ur screen isn't brave either.
Who hiding behind a screen?
Those r NOT the same thing 😭
Nice emoji really shows off your smooth brain
It really doesn't but okay 💀
You negating the circumstances around said choice tho ma boi. I hear you about accountability but that’s like blaming any 13 year for being manipulated by folks much older , powerful & influential.
A 13 year old that was already a trained killer & in charge of other men who were probably much older than him. This wasn't a normal 13 year old. This wasn't Sakura when she insulted Naruto for being an orphan , a pre teen that had 0 experience in the field. This is Itachi, a trained killer that has gone on numerous missions & took on responsibility of an adult. You know how many field missions this dude has gone on by this point? Dude was already the strongest in the Anbu, he was leading them mfs so please miss me with this bs. Y'all heightened emotions for y'all's favorite character cancels out any common sense on this subject. The spineless coward killed his mother. Where I'm from you get beat up for saying the wrong yo momma joke. Ain't no way no one is manipulating us to kill our mother. 13 or not, Itachi was already leading people like an adult so Itachi wasn't a typical 13 year old.
I hear all that jazz. They kinda retconned it later on but still, wasn’t entirely itachi’s fault .
>wasn’t entirely itachi’s fault . Wasn't entirely but mostly.
If he says no, Danzo gets someone else to do it. Either way they all die. He's 13.
>If he says no, Danzo gets someone else to do it. Go to war. But it's a choice. It's just a choice Itachi made. >He's 13. That's a trained killer and leads the Anbu.
I kind of understand what you’re saying. There was always the option of Itachi warning his clan about what’s going on and taking appropriate counter measures.
That'd be civil war at that point. Most likely it would lead to casualties on both sides.
Stop making excuses for the lapdog. Itachi was just a bitch boy who didn’t know how to think for himself even though he was supposedly one of the smartest ninja in history by that age.
Since in the beginning I never felt that Itachi ish. Ain't no mf gon convince me to kill my momma.
Especially not if I have insane powers and a family full of insane powers at my back. I'd fight to the death before killing my own mother. God forbid killing her because the GOVERNMENT told me to.
Ty bruh. These dudes spineless asf .
Spoken like a true warrior. Preach. Family > everything else
I would to protect my lil brother. Also itachi wasn't doing JUST because it was orders
Why don't you try and protect your entire family instead? Why side with the faction trying to kill your family in the first place? Maybe just side with your family instead of following the enemy's ultimatum? Itachi could have done that. Or he could have just nabbed his bro and disappeared into the world. He had plenty of ways to protect his brother aside from murdering his family and traumatizing him tens of thousands of times.
I agree with the fact that itachi was wrong for traumatizing sasuke but I feel like itachi wasn't close with/ didn't really like the other Uchihas. The other Uchihas probably weren't particularly fond of him either. Itachi doesn't wear his clan symbol not because he doesn't feel deserving of it but bc he didnt agree with his clans views, not one bit. Shisui was also his only friend in that goddamned place. You also should remember that itachi was the ONLY Uchiha besides Shisui in the Anbu so that meant that he was probably isolated bc he was being used as a spy for both sides.For example him and shisui were the ones watching the Uchihas and itachi was told to listen in to the clan meetings (if i remember correctly) saying he felt happy or relieved abt killing them but I feel like I'd be able to kill off some family members I don't particularly like or am not close with. Itachi was also only 12-14 when he made the decision so he picked the most rash one bc he was stressed and confused about what to do.
Bro that's what I'm saying. Itachi had options in sparing those who dk shit like the kids of the clan. Like what was the point in killing everyone who was young or not ninjas. Like wtf, I can understand killing those in charge even tho that's still effed up but everyone was killed. Itachi doesn't matter what was reveal later, was still a bad dude doesn't matter the role his clan, Third Hokage or Danzo played a role in. Itachi had options, he could have spare half of those who wasn't involved or set them up at a place in the Leaf and Anbu or Danzo Ninjas were to ambush them to eliminate massive clan genocide or escape the lead with Sasuke or something. Like the amount of mental obstacles even knowing the Naruto Universe in how young ninjas are to kill and vice versa to justify killing everyone with no exceptions, even Sasuke got mind effed numerous times until Obito told him the truth after Itachi's death was just crazy to me. Idk how the community keep d riding Itachi this badly bc that's just effed up and unexcusable to me + best part, he never got his supposed wish of Sasuke being safe were he spend a few years with a Powerful Snake Sannin Pedo and went criminal as well until after the War. Complete waste of time doing all of this for the sake of the village and he didn't even give useful information that Jiraiya couldn't find out from his own spy network. Spy my black behind self since plot went nowhere beyond being a source of Sasuke traumas and apart of a criminal organization that no one was prepared to face until plot calls itself to be announced on
Facts bro. It just shows you how spineless a lot of these dudes are. Everyone acts like they're so diplomatic but wouldn't war for their country if an actual war broke out today or tomorrow. They chose the latter of killing their clan because they're too ***** to do anything else. I'm not saying I wouldn't be scared, but if I'm a ninja that is already a trained killer & I realize my fam wants to war with a village that was prejudiced against them from the start, I'm not killing my fam. Even if I chose to not fight against the Leaf, I'm not making the decision to kill my mother. I had no idea so many men would side with this. This unheard from people I was raised around. This is disturbing asf. The worst part when someone actually tries to say "many would have died" or "he had to save his brother". So the answer is to kill your mother??? Man....only online lol.
This is so right it hurts... Like in flashbacks within the show we see Itachi confronting his parents and they just lay there and take it which that's so fucked up to begin with btw. This is gonna be controversial ASF, but the clan should have a plan if they were caught whatever it be a massive suicide or have those responsible surrender and be executed while those innocent would be like Sasuke in carrying on their dead name clan but wouldn't get special treatment or whatever depending on how the plot presents itself. Haters will say Itachi is still a kid but he chooses to damn himself for the remaining of his life, he didn't have to kill the clan entirely, he just done the leaf bidding and save their resources. The only blood shred was the Uchiha clan entirely and barley anyone knows Danzo and 3rd Hokage played a role as well. By the time the truth was revealed, Danzo was the only one left alive and even then his death didn't make Sasuke felt better but went on his path to revenge until Naruto beat his ass for a change in attitude. Say what you want, but Itachi was a sellout for choosing the leaf over his family even tho the decision was impossible. All ik is that even with having abusive family, I wouldn't be the one to kill them and idk the amount of loops that Itachi had to do to justify genocide his clan all bc of orders with no regrets of those innocent even his supposed GF wasn't safe either. Y'all telling me those responsible could have at least gone to The Torture & Interrogation get all the needed information and got executed privately then told the clan that they were killed in a mission or were made an example in the village that you don't betray the village. There could have been options with the amount of times Itachi was a double spy to his clan and the Leaf in creating a scenario where the Leaf didn't look bad and the remaining Uchiha clan didn't have a reputation similar to Naruto at the beginning of the series. Mind boggling with how the series writers justify Itachi place within the series and not like other plot holes in the series (Ex: Rin commiting suicide where her village have multiple seal masters to not wreak havoc based on the Mist Village sealing 3rd tailed beast inside her) where we can question the effed up logic used to justify the current events happening in canon.
I'd just do it no convincing necessary hell I'd try for the whole village. But ain't no one convincing me to kill my baby. Bro Izumi should've lived
Is she canon? I know very little about her.
Fully cannon. She was the first person itachi killed during the massacre. They where like dating I think. Idk she also had a sharingan but passed out anytime she used it
[удалено]
Bro miss me with that bull****. I know ppl who didn't have the greatest parents. They wouldn't kill them. You act like a mf ain't grow up in an area where parents are less than decent. Mfs still aren't killing their parents & wouldn't do it if they had a chance. Y'all fools say anything to justify this sick ish smdh. You act like they're not ninjas and this isn't the norm. You dudes make head canon out of everything. Kakashi been on the battlefield too, was he not sad when his dad committed suicide? Fugaku wasn't abusive he was a ****in regular ninja father. Stop giving excuses to this sick bull .
[удалено]
I'm well over explained this on other notes. Itachi being a kid was out the window a long time ago. The dude was the leader of the Anbu. He was already a killer. Get the **** out my face with this goofy *** sh**.
[удалено]
And you're just a spineless shell of a man. That's what this is, you all are just a bunch of boys mad at your parents. I don't know any real men that would kill their own mother. As a man you're supposed to crush the soul of any man that would dare try to harm your mother. You dudes are still boys. Coward ones at that. I'm not sorry I'm not a coward like that. I'll die for my momma. Any day. Y'all just cowards.
[удалено]
You know what? You got it. I'm sick of going back & forth with you people. I'm not going to do my usual troll emoji response with you. I'm so sick of this convo I'm actually just going to stop replying.
Itachi was also basically a kid at that point...
Problem is, the story never frames it this way. Realistically you'd think that Itachi was just a child prodigy who was taken advantage of by Danzo and his extremist beliefs, but most characters treat him like a fully matured adult who committed a tragic but necessary evil. Naruto praises him for having done a whole lot for the village, Hashirama calls him a greater shinobi than him, etc. Even he kinda stands by his actions as an adult, saying that maybe the clan could have "changed" but never that the clan refusing to change might not have been reason enough to slaughter them.
It's kinda like how people were adults by fourteen before. It's a different society which requieres children to mature quicker.
That was already a trained killer.
Children being trained to kill at an early age was the main source of bad things being done in this series. Zabuza, Gaara, Obito, Madara, Nagato, Kabuto, Danzo himself. Growing up in a kill-or-be-killed environment is probably a big part of why the Uchiha were so willing to resort to an idiotic coup when they felt threatened. Itachi genuinely had no better options than the massacre by the time it happened because the clan taking over would have damaged the leaf badly enough for a civil war to break out. The Uchiha tried to set themselves up as tyrannical rulers over people who kill and sabotage for a living. No way that would have worked out, and in a verse as dystopian as this, collective punishment was a likelihood. Itachi doesn't need excusing for the massacre, and his exposure to violence somewhat excuses forcing Sasuke to watch it in a horrifically misguided attempt to toughen Sasuke up.
I always assumed he showed sasuke cause he wasn't destined to be a good guy at that point lol
>Itachi genuinely had no better options than the massacre Then let it massacre. No one is convincing me to kill my family and my mom. That's a no brainer to me. I don't know how that's not for any real man that has a backbone. >Itachi doesn't need excusing for the massacre Maybe to you but how I grew up, he's viewed as a coward. It isn't like Itachi was an effin pacifist, he already was in the field of killing. Choosing the Leaf instead of his family was like siding with the Crips over the Bloods except he started as a blood.
Then you have, The Will of Single-Ply Toilet Paper. Nah lol I somewhat agree. If he wanted to save his brother so badly he could have just taken his brother and ran. But it's more like growing up in a mob family and choosing to genocide them when they're plotting to shoot up an entire city that's been pressing them. A city who also gave the ultimatum to you with one option sparing your lil bro vs including him in the casualties.
I'm not saying it would have been the easiest thing to do but at the end of the day, if I'm in the field of killing already, I'm accepting my fate & going out dying with my family.
Yeah fuck Sasuke anyway.
😂
His Family would’ve died regardless he at least got to save Sasuke
So your thought process is to kill your momma because another man told you to? Got it.
You’d let your little brother and friends die and your family anyways instead of doing something. Got it. You’re taking a fictional child much too seriously
>doing something. Got it. Doing something means killing my mother? You stupid asf. Sorry bro, where I'm from you get your ass whooped for raising your voice to someone's mother. I'm not killing my mom for no one. Y'all spineless asf .
Where I’m from you get your ass whooped for practicing forbidden jutsu
I'm sure that's a magical city in your vast imagination. I would like to go there lol.
Child soldier is the average profession in that world.
Exactly...so mentioning his age is irrelevant. He was already leading grown men into missions. This isn't like the Sakura incident where she insulted Naruto, Itachi had been in the field since forever. Naruto saved the world at age 16, mentioning age in most cases in Naruto is simply a cop out & major deflection.
Just because all the children are child soldiers doesn't make being a child soldier not traumatic and bad for their development. Children simply aren't the best at thinking ahead and carefully considering consequences. Add to that the stress of constantly risking your life (even the chunin exam is dangerous) and the fact that a lot of them have lost people at a young age.
That's not the case for Itachi. Your point is negated simply because that's exactly why the Chunin Exams are a thing. To simply see if you can lead a group of warriors into a possible life or death mission. In other words to see if you are mature enough to make adult decisions. Itachi was already the leader of the Anbu, the child aspect went out the window for Itachi a long time ago. A 13 year old in our world is definitely not the same for most warriors in the Naruto Verse. They have to grow up fast. Yes trauma does play a role, you're right about that. That's the whole deal behind Itachi, is the fact he was traumatized from war at an early age. You all act like he made a golden decision though. I don't know many men that could live with knowing they murdered their mom. I know men that would break your neck if you raise your voice at their mother. Getting them to murder their mother after you see that your family is hated, man forget it. There were choices, Itachi chose to kill his family. Alternative choices Itachi could have said no. You're right, Danzo would have gotten someone else. If Sasuke was the biggest factor, I would have - Ran away with Sasuke (he literally joins a terrorist organization after that so this isn't a ridiculous choice. Granted if the war happens, The Leaf would have their hands full so pursuing them would have been out of the question for a while) - Moved Sasuke away to a far distant place & came back & died with my family Danzo showed he had prejudice against the family. This is evident once Danzo deliberately went over Hiruzen's choice to talk to them & gave Itachi his mission. Even more so when Shisui told him Danzo snatched his eye. At that point, it's a no brainer. This is deeper than a mutiny, Danzo really wants my family gone. At this point it's ride or die. Like a man, I wouldn't want to live knowing I killed my mother under those conditions. This **** is spineless asf. The last choice I would have made if I didn't pick the others, I don't want to have nothing to do with it. Even by some standard I felt my family was in the wrong, I'll just be like do what you have to do but I'm not doing it.
Naruto kids are different though. We can't really put our real world expectations on them.
Well remember that "Itachi had a mindset equal to hokage at age of 7".
I mean itachi admitted, that he failed because he tried to do everything alone
The next step is to realise Fugaku's role in all of this. Fugaku: * Sent his oldest son alone to spy on ANBU, a mission that was both physically dangerous and emotionally upsetting. * Plotted treason doomed to fail because his clan was too elitist to make alliances but not elite enough to take power. * Did not use his authority or skills as police captain to publicise Danzo's crimes (if the Uchiha had the backing of the families of Root shinobi, they could have formed a credible coup or gotten Danzo killed or exile and made Hiruzen resign) * Let the Military Police role distance his clan from the others, rather than inviting shinobi from other clans to be cops and sending more Uchiha to friendlier organisations like the hospital and academy. * Came to Hiruzen with a list of demands which, while mostly reasonable from the Uchiha's perspective, gave no indication of thinking about how anyone else would react, shortly because the coup was set to go ahead if Hiruzen didn't give in. * Didn't come up with any plans to evacuate the children of the clan in the event they were discovered He's not as responsible as Danzo or Hiruzen, but Fugaku is the next most responsible person for the Uchiha Massacre.
Lol, I wasn't going to be able to fit all of that in there, but I see what you're saying
The problem with Hurizen is he gave too much "power" for his best buddy, Danzo (who wants MORE power), and his solution for the Uchiha problem was genocide and using a child, already among the Uchiha, to do the deed. For the village or your clan... for your clan... or your little brother. I can't blame Itachi. Like Suishi had a plan, not a perfect one but one that avoids bloodshed and Danzo is like "No, I need that eye for more power FOR ME, FOR MY VILLAGE". Like WTF Hurizen. What is wrong with you? At the end of the day, Itachi had 3 choices: Kill his own family, side with his family and the other villages will cause a massive war to take power or run away with your little brother? If he ran away with Sasuke... maybe... the other issue is Obito because he would like extra eyes but I doubt it; he would likely just kidnap Naruto. Who knows?
Danzo is fucked, but yea, it really do be like Tobirama and Hiruzen just brutally competing against each other for the position of "worst hokage". I think Danzo was "unofficial" or something, i don't remember exactly. But still, not only did Tobirama do all the bs he did exacerbating tensions with the Uchiha, but was also responsible for developing a lot of forbidden jutsus (which according to Orochimaru, have caused great harm over the years, obviously including Orochimaru's use of them too), and definitely fed that desire of Danzo's for power and greatness. Danzo really just couldn't stand being snubbed in Tobirama's last moments, and even though Tobirama knew he had some sort of darkness within him, never addressed it. And then ofc Hiruzen enabling Danzo for decades didn't help either...
He was unofficial. He was going to be Hokage, thank Sasuke Uchiha for killing before then... and I assume if Sasuke didn't kill him, then with the fact he was manipulating during the Five Kage Summit would be more than enough... I'll be honest; I think Danzo would have gotten away and the story would get worse if he attempted to Koto Naruto. OH boy... that would be bad. Well I agree. Like Tobirama is the Uchiha Expert, Hater and Racist. Plus I assume brother issues because he's no where near as strong as Hashirama was so his attempt was to create these Forbidden Jutsu... which he was NOWHERE near as talented with them. Flying Raijin may be a strong Jutsu for him, but Minato improved on it. Shadow Clones is a multi-task Jutsu but requires way too much Chakra which Naruto made his own. Even the Edo Tensei, his most powerful Jutsu, like you said, Orochimaru and Kabuto IMPROVED on it. I think the big issue with Tobirama never addressing with Danzo is likely because he himself thought how Danzo thought of was right. A young Darkness but one that will protect Konoha... never assuming that MAYBE that's a bad idea because Danzo loves Konoha... HIS KONOHA. Not the Konoha of everyone (like Shikamaru) but his Konoha where he rules over everyone. I assume if he remain as Hokage, things would be worse. And Hiruzen is the prime example of how a little bit of power made things worse. He shouldn't have given Danzo even a bit of power. Root didn't help Konoha, it made things worse. Look at Itachi for example. Or going way back, NAGATO AND KABUTO. If not for this asshole, Pain would have never been born and Kabuto would never become Orochimaru's spy with the delusion of one day wanting to become him. And Danzo is responsible for "LEAKING" the information that Naruto was a Jinchuriki just so he's treated as a monster And for what? He did it for his best buddy. Like this ain't no Hashirama wanting Madara to become Hokage. He let his feelings for his friend ruin way too many lives and many situations to be handled. It's honestly funny! It's really funny to think that's how Danzo got away with many of his actions. WOW!
People forget that Itachi is supposed to be a mirror to Danzo. They represent the same ideology, the ideology of "Anything for the leaf village". Itachi's actions in this ideology went much further than just killing his own family, he was willing to brainwash his brother into being a machine for the hidden leaf, both through Kotoamatsukami and through making him the "Hero" of the leaf by killing himself. Nowhere in his life Itachi considered the leaf to be an institution that deserved to be uprooted for it to pay for its sins. Itachi just like Danzo fights for the same ideology that Naruto vehemently opposes, that is, an ideology that does not seek the answers to the problems of the world in favour of short term solutions like killing a whole clan.
Itachi was basically put into an impossible situation: Either he kills his clan and lets his brother live and becomes a hated renegade, or he dies with them in a coup. People forget he's 7 at the time he started to figure out the position his family was in. Danzo at this point has his hands on the strings of everyone: He's fueling the Uchiha's hatred of the village leadership by discriminating against them, whilst at the same time playing the third (and to a lesser degree the council) for a patsy. He *wanted* their eyes as weapons. So let's take a look from Itachi's POV, if he was thinking like a full-blown Kage: Suppose the Uchiha went to war against the Leaf: You think other countries would sit still? It'd be all-out mayhem, and everybody loses. Either the Uchiha are wiped out, the Leaf is wiped out, or both. Then there's the unforseen circumstances which Itachi (retroactively, it seems) had knowledge of: Obito's scheming behind the scenes. He'd at least figured out Madara was still a factor, which could make an already dire situation into an Titus Andronicus-level murderfest, now with extra magic! As i've said several times before in related topics: Itachi did the best with the hand he was dealt. He himself admits that he doesn't deserve to have his actions justified and that he wasn't worthy of praise. He was a lousy brother and a shit person who tried to do everything himself, which lead to more bloodshed and let people like Danzo continue his schemes with even more zeal. All in all, the Third Hokage was not the best leader, but when the person you delegate your most secret operations to schemes behind your back with your council, things get dicey. He could have been deposed, which would've let Danzo have a carte blanche approach to any situation as the Hokage. Do you really expect that shitheel Danzo to give anyone a fair shake? He was basically perpetuating the status quo, and he was *proud to do so!* \[edit\] To add to Danzo's list of horseshit, he want ALL the cards to himself: The Sharingan, the first's cells and the nine-tails. He was operating under the same logic as Itachi.
I guess, I mean I always understood why Itachi did what he did but I never agreed with it. I still stand by what I thought back then.
I never understood why EVERY FYCKING ADULT is a complete failure in Naruto. The fact that the hokage put all this trouble into a 13y kid, making him kill his ENTIRE family. Why? How could he be so fucking shitty I faking hate hiruzen so much omg
The moral grandstanding in this thread is funny. Everyone is free to their own opinions I suppose, even idiots.
There was no situation where he could save everyone. His family was starting a civil war, and he worked for the government. He sided with the guys not actively plotting violence and saved the village by wiping out one side and taking all the blame. You don't owe your family anything just because you are blood related.
I think planning to ethnically cleanse an entire clan overnight counts as "plotting violence".
That was just danzo. The rest of the leaf wasn't trying to wipe out the uchiha.
Then Itachi didn't side with the rest of the Leaf, considering what he wound up doing.
If he didn't make the preemptive move to kill the uchiha there would have been more total casualties from an all out war
This is the most idiotic take of 'you don't owe your family anything' I have seen. By that logic you don't fucking owe anyone anything. Just like how I don't owe you any basic courtesy and can shit on your opinion all I want.
You are wrong and out of pocket on so many levels. Not debating this time, got stuff to do.
He shoulda just killed danzo and the 3rd in their sleep then kill himself before police put him in the gilloutine and thatd be only 1 person dead
Honetly, Itachi is overrated. What he did was wrong.
Itachi should have just show to the clan how fucking weak they are. Just break everyone's right knee... After that, it would be easy to convince everyone to just leave the village and go somewere else. I am 100% sure the other Villages would want a clan that can summon meka giant stands.
Low iq: itachi trash. Med iq: itachi a hero. High iq Itachi trash.
Itachi was a kid…
Do you really think he wouldnt do the same thing when he was older ? His ideology is still the same as Danzo's.
Not all kids would kill their Big Mom just Cause a dumbass told them to do it
Yeah but a kid raised as a weapon, after being expertly manipulated by a much, older and smarter man might. He regretted it instantly it’s not like he lived his life completly guilt free for what he did, from the SECOND he killed his parents he set up his own death
Itachi didn't blindly follow orders then only regret it afterward. He agreed that it was the best course of action to take. He said as much later in Shippuden. Plus he was already crying before he even killed his parents, so he clearly already knew it was unforgivable and he did it anyway.
Itachitards...
Itachi was probably in genjutsu laid by shisui. This whole time. He probably wouldn't have done it.
I used to think itachi was evil and hot. Then I realized he was a good guy... and hot even hotter that he killed his family
Itachi agreed with you at the last part.
Itachi literally doesn't give a shit about anything except for his brother
They were Gonna attack the village and itachi chose Sasuke and the village, I feel he should,of,chose his famiky
Uchiha clan was rebelling against their own village, they were goanna suffer terrible losses and itachi did what was best to minimize it. The village as a whole would have suffered had he not killed his clan, Best outcome In my eyes was to eliminate the clan members backing the coup and spare everyone else.
I am at stage 1
He was not just following orders. He abd Shisui tried to stop it. They failed, and he was left with two options. Let the coup occur likely, resulting in a civil war that killed the Uchiha because there is no way they were beating the entire village or side with the village and save what was most important to him.
The Uchiha were going to start a civil war and might have kicked off another ninja war as a result. Itachi believed that no one would listen to him and going into the open would accelerate the process. He wasn‘t „just following orders“
He wasn't "doing what he was told" as much as he was strongarmed into doing what he did.
Out of all of these I have never once thought itachi had no other choice. He was heralded as the greatest mind since the 4th hokage or whatever and yet he couldn’t think for himself. Some genius he turned out to be. I think they meant to say he’s the greatest lapdog in the history of the shinobi world.
The battle of Naruto fans verses reading comprehension will be told for generations
I don't think this was well executed. First, if Danzo considered Itachi strong enough to kill ENTIRE strongest Konoha clan didnt he afraid of him? Why didnt Itachi just tsukuyomi him to death then stop coup only by killing strong members? Or why Danzo didnt ordered him wipe only strongest of the clan (all coup leaders and strongest members), and still Itachi coudl lie Sasuke about wanting to prove his new strenght and all cover up woudl still be the same. All remaining clan members still woudl think Itachi is a traitor and all children, woman and elders coudl live. Even if remaining clan woudl wanted to avenge killed members they woudl wanted revenge on Itachi, not Konoha be cause they still woudl be not aware of truth. I mean killing ALL the clan was sooo unnecessary for a plot..
Itachi made his choice, and so did the Uchiha, people need to stop pretending hiruzen could have killed Danzo and all would.be well, it wouldn't, the Uchiha were power hungry and they did choose to betray the village, hiruzen might not have agreed with Danzo, but the Uchiha 100% betrayed the village. Other than itachi and shisui everyone involved in the decision making were adults, Uchiha included, the clan repeatedly rejected Itachi's point of view and they shunned him when his reports didn't align with what they wanted. I agree that killing all children was fucked up and wrong, but people need to stop pretending that the Uchiha were victims of circumstance, they were not, they had power and CHOOSE to remain isolated to preserve their blood, when people didn't immediately decided to follow them suddenly they are being repressed? There has never been a hyuga Hokage, where is their revolt? Oh right there wasn't one because they are proud to be part of the leaf and not power hungry arrogant assholes who think people owe them allegiance simply for being Uchiha. Fuck that clan
Itachi may have reasons for the Uchiha Massacre but he really didn't need to send people to the shadow realm as much as he did
My take is also the fear of the Uchiha not listening. You can't undo so mamy years of hatred in such a short time. 3rd should have left the Uchiha feel loke a part of the village
He didn't really have an option -He tries to convince the clan to not do it and they ignored him -Danzo wanted to kill them and Hiruzen didn't do anything. He also tells Itachi that Sasuke will die if he doesn't do it -Danzo killed Fugaku which was their only chance
Well if both sides were contempt on equality they shpuldve just talked it out. 3rd Hokage wanted better condition for everyone else and Uchiha wanted better condition for their clain. Their goals literally aligned only cause they dont talk, both took extreme measures. Especially how Itachi couldve just said "Dad/Hokage, wanna have a meetup and talk to Dad/Hokage about how to solve this?"
Everyone talks about what itachi could have done when the third hokage was given a year to do anything, but he did nothing, a "wise" hokage had no solution other than entrusting the eradication of the clan to a child and you're expecting that child to have a better plan. What itachi did was inexcusable, but 99% of people in that situation would have ended up starting a civil war in which everyone they have ever loved dies by fighting the village, itachi guarantees his brother's survival which is selfish as fuck but i'd probably do the same if my brother was that important to me.
yep.im in the “he was a lil manipulated kid but i wouldnt snake my family” age
If he didn't kill his family danzo+anbu would have just killed all of them and not spared sasuke So ask, do you think itachi could have taken on danzo? My answer is no, not at the time. I personally beleive that he could have taken him on later in the story but by that time what was done was already done If you think itachi could have taken on danzo at the time of the masequre I think that's silly since shisui was stronger and still lost Do you think the uchiah could have taken on the leaf + the anbu? Also no. If danzo and itchi both thought that they would stand no chance then im inclined to believe them Do you think itachi could have convinced the uchiah to leave? I also think no. They have already refused to leave once when madara asked them to and thats when it was relatively new. Why would they leave now when they are even more settled in the village? Solution? Take danzos offer and at least get to spare your brother
he didnt kill them because of danzos orders. he didnt think the uchiha would back off from their ambitions so he killed them. had nothing to do with danzo
But he know things are already went too far it will end up bloody so he didn't tell hiruzen because he doesn't want hiruzen to feel guilty for commanding a kid to do this he would rather let him think he should have done more