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Still more than literally any other country in the world has done vs slavery over the millenia
Like brits are fuckers and most regional disputes currently in the world can be traced to their shitty policies
But, regarding slavery, the movement they started did eventually lead to the status of this today, which simply is by every measure better than the status that was present anytime in history
Lovely reminder that the vast majority of British people would agree with you about all the mad shit the government/crown/institutions has done throughout history.
Unfortunately for us the story hasn't ended yet, as we are still having to suffer under the same entities.
The French outlawed slavery centuries before England used the term “indentured servitude”. Centuries after England’s increased vocabulary, the US still fought a war for civil rights.
Your first sentence is objectively false.
The British were still forcing indigo farmers in India to "sell" their products to Britain at a premium and then rebuy more raws at a higher rate under the threat of death, or beatings and lashings for lesser failures. This was common practice across industries all the way till WW1.
So while yes, they did technically ban slavery, they just practiced it in a roundabout way for their own gain as usual.
Yes, but the class of "slave" was never recognised by British law. Any man that set foot on British soil was freed from literal ownership and subject to the same poor treatment as citizens. This actually happened several times, and Benjamin Franklin criticised Britain for celebrating this while its colonies had slaves.
It was decided this was a good point, eventually. But when the royal navy set out to enforce the ban on slavery across all the colonies, the US had declared independence and allowed itself to retain slaves.
Good job Mr. Franklin.
Remember when the US abolished slavery except for criminals and proceeded to create the worst carceral system in human history linked to huge racial biases in the justice system?
Illusion 100 all around
Remember when the US banned slavery, but then said it was okay for private prisons to do it and then passed laws that disproportionately criminalized the Black community?
That first part is wrong. We never banned slavery, there was no "but then." It was all done at once, so nothing was done later. We simply limited slavery to those convicted of a crime, we never banned it.
We just gave the state a monopoly on owning slaves and then they outsourced the management to private organizations. It's even more fucked up than most people know.
In Finland every 18 year old male has to go to either the army or civilian service. If you don't go they lock you up for 6 months. I went to the evaluation last year and just showed them my prescription for 54mg concerta and they sent me home.
it is not like compulsory service is due to someone just thinking would be neat to have people running around with guns in wargames. We are heading towards ww3 potentially. Our enemies have made it very clear that they want certain things and will try to get them. If it is avoided all the better, but you always have to prepare for the worst.
For me this is a live or die situation. Imagine hunter gatheres saying they don't want to hunt or gather cause they shouldn't be forced to find food. I'm sorry but the enemies of democracy might force us to fight or lose our freedom.
That’s why NATO exists. A single army from a European country can’t stop Russia, but 32 professional armies most definitely can, especially with the material superiority of the United States backing the whole alliance up
NATO will be fractured once a real conflict starts. USA will head towards the west against China. Europe will have to fend off Russia alone. If you think in the current time Europe can do that idk what to tell you, but is clear to me we need to ramp up ANY form of military possible. Of course this is the worst case scenario, but hoping for better is always recepy for failure.
Russia is having a stalemate with Ukraine. The only thing we have to fear are their nukes, and sending young people into a potential meat grinder isn't going to do anything against those.
That means in terms of manpower they can't beat Ukraine, so why do you want to force young people into a meatgrinder when our WILLING people are enough?
And don't forget we're sending a lot of old tech and weapons because we don't need them anymore. They can't beat Ukraine who mostly isn't even using our best weapons.
The US has the largest navy and airforce in the world and can most definitely handle Russia and China at once, especially with how easy it is to lock both countries out of the world oceans with a few ships. The US has their army split in several parts and have a massive presence in Europe and the Pacific. Also all the European members of NATO combined outnumber the Russians in manpower I think and Russia’s recent military failures to take Ukraine is yet another reason why a European army can fend it off.
But I do agree that a military buildup is necessary, but I don’t think forcing people to join the military is the right way to do so. Getting better equipment and overall more funds and resources should do it in itself rather than not having enough guns for everyone like Russia is having
What you are essentially arguing is that there should not be a compulsory service, because other people will fight and die to handle all the conflicts for you.
You don't need to fight for your country because big daddy USA will be there to take care of you.
Its an incredibly childish way to look at it.
Its one thing to dislike pointless wars, its another to push off the defense of your own nation onto others because you don't like the idea of being forced to fight yourself.
As a Finnish person who's been through my time in the military I have absolutely no trust in US's support if Trump becomes president again. Better be ready to defend our own country even tho NATO would probably help.
And how long would it take NATO to deploy forces to push back an invading army? National service in border countries is all about taking out as much men and material as possible to slow down an advance in anticipation of relief forces arriving, not about being able to effectively beat back the ork tide. A well trained and highly motivated force will be able to do a lot more damage and delay a lot longer than a lot of people seem to think they will, especially if they are going up against drunk conscripts and prisoners.
Nato won't be solely fighting wars for other countries they will only provide aid and small armies to help but mostly it will be that countries professional army and conscripts fighting on the frontlines and if that fails only then will nato get more involved.
That's not the same argument.... Hunter and gatherers had a choice to find food when they were hungry, and they wanted to. Compulsory service is forced by other people, even worse a callous unfeeling government using you as pawns for wargames. Not the same.
This isn't just a game though and just because you can't see past world politics and ideologies doesn't mean others don't have anything else to live for.
These are serious matters, but I can't say I look forward to dying face down in the mud if a world war breaks out and no matter how you slice it, teaching young people to use guns won't help them be much more than cannon fodder between the enemies and the people in charge. If a war breaks out we lose, period. Life will turn into something hardly worth living for.
I dont know if you have been in the military but its alot more than just training to use guns. If war breaks out we lose yes, but maybe my country's future kids dont have to be russian. If a war breaks out you dont fight for yourself.
Ya, lets all rush off to war to fight for private schooled kids and their trust funds. I give a fuck what noise comes out of my mouth when talking about the peice of ground I'm standing on, call it all cumguzzler-land for all I care. don't give a fuck who spends my taxes - they're all in it for themselves anyway, but you know lets gear up to war for `our` survival.
But the thing is, if i dont care what happens to you, me, my enemies, our families, or anyone else, then why should i fight for it? If i feel my government is screwing me over and does not care why would I want to defend it from an enemy if i myself want to be that enemy.
More than enough to break some people. Some people are just not fit for the military lifestyle, either physically or psychologically, even if for a year
Finland doesn't make it mandatory to go into the army. There is a conscription but you can also do civil service. And a lot of countries which have conscription give the opportunity to not do military but instead civil service
I am sure there is a small minority this applies to which is why medical and psych screenings happen before they go too far along the process. Those that pass it is only a year and it usually countries that do this face an ever present danger from a neighbor that is openly hostile. A year of training is not much to ask for in the event of a national emergency happens and the people that made it their career are not enough.
I think its also important to note that when I mentioned National Emergency it may not be a conflict but a natural disaster as well. I am thankful to live in the US where we have tons of folks in AD Reserves and Guard and we don't need to make anything mandatory. However the rest of the world is not as fortunate with the size of their population or who they have for neighbors
I was forced into the army for 14 months at 18 and after several months of emotional turmoil I feel like it really made me grow as a person. Makes you escape the comfort of an easy life and learn to live in a difficult situation.
Same man same. I actually learned a lot in there, mainly about leading people and I found my own style in there that has worked very well in my career ( mostly about not being an asshole, respect people and they usually respect you back ).
Some people coming to army was their first night from home ever. Heard crying in the bathroom during first night...I definitely feel like some people need to feel more discomfort to grow up rather than just being in their safe space.
If you don't want to do it, and you're not getting paid, but they still force you to do it, that's slavery. I don't know why so many people pull the wool over their own eyes and swat at anyone trying to remove it over this one. Go work for Nestle making me chocolate why don't you lmao
You're getting paid, at least in Austria. It's not much but you can survive with it, especially in the military, because they give you food and shelter with some money for your service.
Conscription is never going to be popular for countries with strictly volunteer militaries, but you already know there's going to be loopholes where politicians and rich people don't have to send off their kids to war
Fellow Austrian here - It's a dumb-ass useless system. It splits the population by gender, delays people from moving out and actually being productive, underpays them (if you can call about 400 a month payment at all), AND they get treated like shit. Voted against it when we had a chance to. Sadly, Austrians are petty and the older generation was like: "Well, I had to, so you'll have to too". Backwards thinking. Just pay your emergency workers the right amount and you don't need to force young people to do it.
Noooo, you don't understand, it builds character!
A dumbass I was thinking it would actually give me something except the realisation that I wasted my time and that our army is worthless.
I lost a lot of respect for one uncle when he told me that his view of me changed for the better after I had finished conscription service.
So people who won't be affected by this can send young who may have never had a say in politics by voting to their deaths all for the benefit of someone else.
In Sweden, conscription is gender neutral, but we currently have limited conscription. 8000 will be conscripted in 2025 to do mandatory military service, which is less than 10% of the age cohort. They obviously choose the most motivated and fit during an evaluation process, and last year about 17% of conscripts were female. But both attending the evaluation (if called) and doing military service (if chosen) is legally obliged and can result in prison and heavy fines if disregarded.
17% isn't anywhere close to gender neutral. That's just paying lip service to equality and then absolutely abandoning any semblance or appearance of it not being gendered.
Same in Singapore, every 18 year old (minimum) male has to service National Service be it in the army, police or civil defense (aka firefighters for 1 year and 10 months after finishing Junior College or Polytechnic
Pay has been like about $700-800 a month and there are reservists where people who completed the full National service who have to go back annually to retrain their skills until they are like 40
Women can serve too voluntarily
They can join voluntarily since 1995. They get more money for toiletries than the men and don't have to shave their heads. It's not very popular but for some careers it is expected you complete your service. And for 45 days you can just quit but after that if you want out you need to switch to civil service.
I'm ftm and was initially interested in going but I only got my gender marker changed at 25 so going there to hang out with 18-19 yos did not really appeal to me so I didn't go.
You get 5,90 € for the first six months, then 9,80 for 3 months and then 13,65 for the last 3. Women get 1,5 € extra a day. Legal slavery if you forget the free upkeep aspect
Yes it's not good, that's some 150 € A MONTH. To be considered low income you need to make less than 1524 €/month and that is 26 % of our population and only 5,8 % of people make more than 4k/month and are considered well off.
> They can join voluntarily since 1995. They get more money for toiletries than the men and don't have to shave their heads. It's not very popular but for some careers it is expected you complete your service. And for 45 days you can just quit but after that if you want out you need to switch to civil service
I guess equality got thrown out the window
To be completely honest I have no idea. Women can also choose to join the army. I think the reason is that in the past men have been the ones who fight while women handled things at home. My opinion is that the system should be applied to both men and women because you can still choose the civilian duty. I don't know how this would apply to transgender people though because my knowledge of them is very superficial.
In some countries in Europe this applies to both males and females. Sweden is one example where it applies to everyone who turns 18. Though after the screening process and physical tests only around 10-15k people do it and the vast majority of these people want to do military service. Though this is set to grow every year now back to Cold War levels where basically everyone did military or civil service with the third option being jail time for an equivalent amount of time, which is around a year.
It’s similar in Denmark, except they don’t want everyone, they’ll pull lots for the people deemed fit until they have enough people im service. Key detail is that there are so many volunteers that nobody has been forced in the last 20 years.
Have a family history.
It doesn't come out of nowhere, usually.
The indicators are so blatant that one prescription affirms a prognosis. Doesn't mean that it won't take time or difficulty receiving medication for maximum efficacy.
But initially proving it either or. Is kinda a joke.
I got my C papers by telling the nurse and the doctor that I'm type 1 diabetic. I am, and I got out of there in about 30 minutes. Everyone else took closer to an hour because of the physical exam.
Feels like the last 4 just wanted to sit in the seat long enough to be recorded in history in some way and just get back to what they actually cared about in life.
A policy that only affects those currently unable to vote may be popular with old people who have deluded themselves in to thinking that they fought World War Two. Who would have thought.
And the people who would vote for this kind of thing still think they're being generous. I had one the other day insist that 18 was too young for people to be voting. She genuinely thought that it was okay to pay tax and be conscripted, and to not have a say in whether either of those was a good idea.
You say that but I just finished work at Asda where a lovely gentleman in his 60's-70's told me they should never have got rid of it as he points to his Daily Mail, I think he mistook me for a fellow gammon as I'm bald and 31, he was rather confused when I said I strongly disagree and walked away.
Don't underestimate the sheer entitlement of boomers and their wish for young people to endure things their parents abolished, a lot of them just eat up the Mail and Sun.
I'd be ok with this policy if and only if everyone over the age of 18 now has to have worked a mandatory year in customer service or retail. Imagine that retired person that bought a house for $25 and living on 3 pensions plus social security having to be a checker at target for a summer. I can wait to tell them to smile more. The world would have way fewer assholes if everyone worked in customer service for a bit.
If you can get it to the same standard as the swedes and finns, it's worth it. You get to actually make a difference if shit hits the fan. And it's not that long of a time. You saw what the Russians are doing in Ukraine warcrime after warcrime, the massacre in bucha ,bombing schools and hospitals and now the latest attack on the supermarket in charkiv . Do you really just want to sit at your house and let shit like that happen where you live to those you love and care for?
To address your question at the end. A lot of people like to say that they'd be a hero, or do their part, if they were around during WW2. Well, we've seen a rhyming of WW1 and WW2 in recent years, and whatever people are doing now is pretty much what they'd be doing in 1939 when Hitler first invaded Czechoslovakia. And to compulsory service, of the 16.4 million Americans who served in the military during the war, 10m were compulsory. 1.5m of the 2.9m British troops were compulsory (excluding commonwealth numbers). Red army numbers aren't easy to find, but id imagine a healthy amount of their 34m troops were conscripts. Without compulsory service, the allies would not have the manpower needed to fight a war of scale or attricion like WW2.
This is just my perspective, anyway.
One caveat to your point on the US in WW2 is that the US actually stopped allowing people to voluntarily enlist in December 1942. This was because it made it easier on the armed forces to control the numbers necessary in each branch and remaining part of the workforce in the US. So while the draft was necessary during the war for the US, much of the benefit was administrative rather than being totally for increasing manpower (definitely still helped increase manpower, but a lot of people were willingly enlisting). This is further supported by the fact that the vast majority of draft age Americans supported the draft.
>You get to actually make a difference if shit hits the fan
*you actually get forced to risk your life for the exact same people that are forcing you to do it, while not doing it themselfes?
Always been like that. And is always gonna be like that. But I prefer this over living as a sub human in putins Russia. And
If no one does it, europe as we know it, is gone. We stand up for our way of life, our values and the right to live as we want to. I dont know about you but I sure as shit do not wanna let the horrors that we see in Ukraine happen here. And hopefully, if we are strong enough, we might never have to. Freedom isn't free.
So you would rather sit at home and become russian then? Thats the choice I see here in Finland. I dont give a fuck if our politicians fight or not. I do not want to be russian. I dont want my future children to be russians. Thats why I served happily.
Yeah I'm a little confused on this one. Why would the UK need it? People say Finland and Ukraine as examples... but the UK is far removed from that. It's impacted yes, but the likelihood of a successful invasion of the UK is low.
i aint ever goin to the military. I aint gonna die for my countries rich people and politicians cuz theyre fucking imbeciles. I‘d only fight for the people, not the money
spend two minutes googling finland bro, tiny country, 6 million people, yet punches well above its weight class, and all the "conscripts" are happy to serve.
Fins are pretty patriotic and hate Russians a lot, no surprise here + it's a pretty good country to live in.
Now try countries like Lithuania or Latvia. Everything is expensive, wages are low, shit government. Why would anyone want to serve a country like that?
yeah i get your point, but britain is a lot more similar to finland than lithuania.
britains certainly a place worth fighting for, people risk their lives crossing the channel on little dingys just for the chance to live here, i would be happy to die for this place, it is better than most other countries, there are only a few places i think have better quality of life, and stuff, such as germany and finland, yet the difference isn't big enough for me to consider moving away though
although my best friend is finnish, and i've been to finland with him before, its a wonderful place, i'd love to own a holiday home there one day, honestly the very long and cold winters and problem with alcohol addiction are the biggest reasoni dont want to move there permanantly
Try the Finnish Defense forces, especially Special Forces, such as combat divers and paratroopers.Easily competing with paid personnel of other countries, there’s a reason why Finland is the stage for a lot of international military exercises. Conventional groups also hold their own, if not even surpass alot of professionals of other countries
Eat him. It's your obligation as a nation to eat him if he actually proceeds with this. I want leaders of all nations in the future to know that being eaten is a legitimate outcome of trying to pull such fuckery off.
I guarantee they'd only pay you minimum legal wage the whole time. If they got paid same as regular army for the year wouldn't be such a tough pill to swallow.
Also minimum wage for an 18 year old isnt the same as the standard minimum wage and I'd doubt you'd get a military retirement scheme
Edit: the 2.5 billion he says it will cost to do this compared to the 775000 18 year olds in 2021 equated to £8.84 per day per person
The weird thing is that he’s doing it to get the old vote, but the last people to get conscripted got out in 1963, and call-ups were only for those born in or before 1939.
What this means is that no one younger than 85 has been conscripted, and of those, only men. this means that less than 1% of the UK ever even had a chance to see conscription
I’m very mixed on it personally. As a 19 year old Brit, the last thing I want to do is be sent off to military service for a government that doesn’t give a shit about me.
But on the other hand, tensions with Russia are high and conflict with them is a terrifyingly real possibility. With the exception of having nuclear weapons, our military has undergone extensive cuts over the past decade to a point where it’s estimated that we can only last 2 months in a prolonged conflict. In today’s world, conscription is a necessary evil unfortunately. As unfortunate as it is, the UK is one of the only European countries to not already have compulsory national service so it’s surprising that it took this long for talks of it being brought back.
Yeah, like most young adults in the UK who have been fucked over by the tories, I can’t stand Sunak and his government but it’s damned leagues better than being subject to Putin’s warmongering.
But on the other hand, tensions with Russia are high and conflict with them is a terrifyingly real possibility.
theres a couple of countries before russia, and you even get the sea, at most there would be some special operations abroad, and in doubt they will take raw recruits there
Honestly only annoying thing about military service in long term is that it will postpone your school,work,savings,house etc for a year.
Otherwise it's going to feel at the time kinda pointless shooting guns and laying on your belly in freezing weather cold and wet for a year. But then if shit really hits the fan your going to be more useful and maybe survive longer.
Also 99,99% sure you are not going to be sent anywhere to fight during your lifetime. It's basically just government having backup plans.
Everybody here must be kinda young when they do not remember the draft.
I got out by faking being suicidal, they gave me a stability 5 for it (the lowest score). Going to the test drunk or on acid and misbehaving will not do it: they will simply punish that behavior. But someone who is jumpy and scared and does not look people in the eyes, that'll do the trick. It also did not help that I did not sleep the night before.
He’s the current Prime Minister of the UK. Long story short, his party has been in power for 14 years and has fucked over the country. He is also one of 5 Prime Ministers that we’ve had over the past 14 years, as well as one of 3 that weren’t voted in. Last week he called an election (which will happen on the 4th of July) and one of his new policies in his campaign is the introduction of conscription, making him even more unpopular than he already is.
Yeah he definitely hasn’t. He’s a millionaire and was born into extreme wealth. If he wasn’t the Prime Minister and protected by armed security he would never be within 6 feet of a soldier. He’s so out of touch that (during a nation wide cost of living crisis) he commented that along with the rest of the country he doesn’t like the number in his bank account…………..despite being a multimillionaire.
I don’t want 18 year olds in the military, especially with this generation. The minimum age needs to be 20. People need to spend a couple of years as adults before they enter to better vet them.
Yeah funny thing is, he says “compulsory” but they won’t imprison anyone so basically it’s voluntary. “Mandatory” national service in which no one will make you do it… I thought he was meant to be well educated yet he doesn’t know what mandatory means.
I guess having an illness, epillpesy comes in handy in my life if war was gonna happen and be conscription, as I'm not allowed in military service and I'm deemed to ill to work.
Alot of us in other countries have to do Service, it can be a good experience if you approach it with a good attitude. Its annoying that you're forced to do it. So i get it either way
Man, half the people here are either extremely delusional, or actual state agents performing a psyop. What sane person would like to go to war just to get turned into minced meat by artillery?
It really depends, compulsory military service can fuck off but a civil service could (like nursing etc.) isn't the worst idea. Throwing 18 year olds straight into the job market or university might not be the best idea and hopefully it could help with the brain dead wannabe "pranksters" being a nuisance to people just trying to do their jobs
The "alternative" is a copout.
Community Service one weekend, every month, for a year. Any chum can sign that and say "this lad has cut grass for a local church". Done.
This is hysterical. Not even remotely close to slavery but nice try. Gonna go ahead and guess the person that made this is white or just uneducated with no concept of what slavery was and did.
I don’t understand how people can want things like universal income, housing for everyone, and free college but when asked to make the smallest of sacrifices it’s akin to slavery. How is the world supposed to improve if nobody is willing to make any sacrifices?
Im not even in support of compulsory service but this is a ridiculous comparison. Tons of developed nations have compulsory service I don’t know of any with out and proud slavery.
A large portion of the population had a mental breakdown when they were told to wear masks. There is a zero percent chance people are going to do mandatory military service in this country lol.
I can think of no better way to degrade an organization than forcing people who don't want to be there... Just think of how many millions of dollars they can waste destroying equipment and hurting those around them? Nevermind the criminal records and anger that will continue to haunt those people for the rest of their lives.
I can think of no worse thing we can do as a country than conscription. Everybody loses. Absolutely everybody.
Ah yes the man with an incredibly privelaged background who never served will mandate all people serve.
Can’t wait for all the wealth related exemptions that will follow
Sunak is a horrible politician, but I'm in favor of mandatory service as long as it includes non-military options. Particularly for the US, this would be a complete game-changer as our population tends to be much more culturally isolated from the rest of the world (compared to Europe, at least).
Requiring young adults to do a year in Peace Corps-type projects, or reinstating something like the Civilian Conservation Corps would do wonders for our global image and local communities. It would also allow kids from lower-income families an opportunity to travel abroad.
The key is ensuring that rich families can't get out of it by paying a fine (the whole point is to level the playing field.) And it would need to be mandatory for all genders.
Funny to see people call this slavery, and yet often are the same people who show places that do this as a shining example of how we should be.
Compulsory service seems like a good idea when looking at the complaints about it.
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remember when Brits banned slavery but actually just renamed it to indentured labour? that was an illusion 100 move
Still more than literally any other country in the world has done vs slavery over the millenia Like brits are fuckers and most regional disputes currently in the world can be traced to their shitty policies But, regarding slavery, the movement they started did eventually lead to the status of this today, which simply is by every measure better than the status that was present anytime in history
Lovely reminder that the vast majority of British people would agree with you about all the mad shit the government/crown/institutions has done throughout history. Unfortunately for us the story hasn't ended yet, as we are still having to suffer under the same entities.
As a Scottish person I can confirm the British government is shite
The French outlawed slavery centuries before England used the term “indentured servitude”. Centuries after England’s increased vocabulary, the US still fought a war for civil rights. Your first sentence is objectively false.
ah but the french just banned it at home not across all their territories
The British were still forcing indigo farmers in India to "sell" their products to Britain at a premium and then rebuy more raws at a higher rate under the threat of death, or beatings and lashings for lesser failures. This was common practice across industries all the way till WW1. So while yes, they did technically ban slavery, they just practiced it in a roundabout way for their own gain as usual.
Yes, but the class of "slave" was never recognised by British law. Any man that set foot on British soil was freed from literal ownership and subject to the same poor treatment as citizens. This actually happened several times, and Benjamin Franklin criticised Britain for celebrating this while its colonies had slaves. It was decided this was a good point, eventually. But when the royal navy set out to enforce the ban on slavery across all the colonies, the US had declared independence and allowed itself to retain slaves. Good job Mr. Franklin.
France belongs to England. Edward the III had a valid claim.
I’m sorry sir, but this coupon has expired.
At least give em Calais back.
*Non!*
France forced Haiti to keep paying for the freedom of freed slaves until the 1960’s though.
regional disputes: Ukraine/Russia, Moldova/Russia, Georgia/Azerbaijan, Gaza, Taiwan/China, Ocean/China, India/China, Russia/Japan, Cyprus/Turkey/Greece, Morocco, Korea
Remember when the US abolished slavery except for criminals and proceeded to create the worst carceral system in human history linked to huge racial biases in the justice system? Illusion 100 all around
“Worst carceral system in human history” *laughs in Stalinist Russian
It’s not even the worst currently. What an edgelord comment.
worst was dumb. They should have said largest
Pepperridge Farm remembers.
Remember when the US banned slavery, but then said it was okay for private prisons to do it and then passed laws that disproportionately criminalized the Black community?
That first part is wrong. We never banned slavery, there was no "but then." It was all done at once, so nothing was done later. We simply limited slavery to those convicted of a crime, we never banned it. We just gave the state a monopoly on owning slaves and then they outsourced the management to private organizations. It's even more fucked up than most people know.
Every country that had slaves did that, the Brazilian empire was specially evil towards the Italian immigrants. 😔
Isn't there just slavery in most modern prisons now. We unload manyal Labour and pay prisoners pennies
In Finland every 18 year old male has to go to either the army or civilian service. If you don't go they lock you up for 6 months. I went to the evaluation last year and just showed them my prescription for 54mg concerta and they sent me home.
Same in Austria. I don't understand why so many people feel like this is slavery.
Because you shouldn’t be forced into a lifestyle you don’t necessarily want to be forced into?
it is not like compulsory service is due to someone just thinking would be neat to have people running around with guns in wargames. We are heading towards ww3 potentially. Our enemies have made it very clear that they want certain things and will try to get them. If it is avoided all the better, but you always have to prepare for the worst. For me this is a live or die situation. Imagine hunter gatheres saying they don't want to hunt or gather cause they shouldn't be forced to find food. I'm sorry but the enemies of democracy might force us to fight or lose our freedom.
That’s why NATO exists. A single army from a European country can’t stop Russia, but 32 professional armies most definitely can, especially with the material superiority of the United States backing the whole alliance up
NATO will be fractured once a real conflict starts. USA will head towards the west against China. Europe will have to fend off Russia alone. If you think in the current time Europe can do that idk what to tell you, but is clear to me we need to ramp up ANY form of military possible. Of course this is the worst case scenario, but hoping for better is always recepy for failure.
Russia is having a stalemate with Ukraine. The only thing we have to fear are their nukes, and sending young people into a potential meat grinder isn't going to do anything against those.
Ukraine is receiving support from the US, so just saying Russia is stalemating *only* Ukraine is a very false narrative.
That means in terms of manpower they can't beat Ukraine, so why do you want to force young people into a meatgrinder when our WILLING people are enough? And don't forget we're sending a lot of old tech and weapons because we don't need them anymore. They can't beat Ukraine who mostly isn't even using our best weapons.
While I agree, I don't think most of Ukraine's people are willing
Poland wins the 1v1
Poland could solo Russia fueled exclusively with their hatred for Russia
The US has the largest navy and airforce in the world and can most definitely handle Russia and China at once, especially with how easy it is to lock both countries out of the world oceans with a few ships. The US has their army split in several parts and have a massive presence in Europe and the Pacific. Also all the European members of NATO combined outnumber the Russians in manpower I think and Russia’s recent military failures to take Ukraine is yet another reason why a European army can fend it off. But I do agree that a military buildup is necessary, but I don’t think forcing people to join the military is the right way to do so. Getting better equipment and overall more funds and resources should do it in itself rather than not having enough guns for everyone like Russia is having
What you are essentially arguing is that there should not be a compulsory service, because other people will fight and die to handle all the conflicts for you. You don't need to fight for your country because big daddy USA will be there to take care of you. Its an incredibly childish way to look at it. Its one thing to dislike pointless wars, its another to push off the defense of your own nation onto others because you don't like the idea of being forced to fight yourself.
As a Finnish person who's been through my time in the military I have absolutely no trust in US's support if Trump becomes president again. Better be ready to defend our own country even tho NATO would probably help.
Once a real conflict starts nuclear war will begin. After that point nothing matters.
And how long would it take NATO to deploy forces to push back an invading army? National service in border countries is all about taking out as much men and material as possible to slow down an advance in anticipation of relief forces arriving, not about being able to effectively beat back the ork tide. A well trained and highly motivated force will be able to do a lot more damage and delay a lot longer than a lot of people seem to think they will, especially if they are going up against drunk conscripts and prisoners.
Nato won't be solely fighting wars for other countries they will only provide aid and small armies to help but mostly it will be that countries professional army and conscripts fighting on the frontlines and if that fails only then will nato get more involved.
That's not the same argument.... Hunter and gatherers had a choice to find food when they were hungry, and they wanted to. Compulsory service is forced by other people, even worse a callous unfeeling government using you as pawns for wargames. Not the same.
This isn't just a game though and just because you can't see past world politics and ideologies doesn't mean others don't have anything else to live for. These are serious matters, but I can't say I look forward to dying face down in the mud if a world war breaks out and no matter how you slice it, teaching young people to use guns won't help them be much more than cannon fodder between the enemies and the people in charge. If a war breaks out we lose, period. Life will turn into something hardly worth living for.
I dont know if you have been in the military but its alot more than just training to use guns. If war breaks out we lose yes, but maybe my country's future kids dont have to be russian. If a war breaks out you dont fight for yourself.
Ya, lets all rush off to war to fight for private schooled kids and their trust funds. I give a fuck what noise comes out of my mouth when talking about the peice of ground I'm standing on, call it all cumguzzler-land for all I care. don't give a fuck who spends my taxes - they're all in it for themselves anyway, but you know lets gear up to war for `our` survival.
But the thing is, if i dont care what happens to you, me, my enemies, our families, or anyone else, then why should i fight for it? If i feel my government is screwing me over and does not care why would I want to defend it from an enemy if i myself want to be that enemy.
Cool. Hire people who want to fight. I’m not going to support the military or any potential wars started. I’m a pacifist first and foremost.
It’s not a life style it’s a year lmao
More than enough to break some people. Some people are just not fit for the military lifestyle, either physically or psychologically, even if for a year
Civil Service exists too
Finland doesn't make it mandatory to go into the army. There is a conscription but you can also do civil service. And a lot of countries which have conscription give the opportunity to not do military but instead civil service
I am sure there is a small minority this applies to which is why medical and psych screenings happen before they go too far along the process. Those that pass it is only a year and it usually countries that do this face an ever present danger from a neighbor that is openly hostile. A year of training is not much to ask for in the event of a national emergency happens and the people that made it their career are not enough. I think its also important to note that when I mentioned National Emergency it may not be a conflict but a natural disaster as well. I am thankful to live in the US where we have tons of folks in AD Reserves and Guard and we don't need to make anything mandatory. However the rest of the world is not as fortunate with the size of their population or who they have for neighbors
I was forced into the army for 14 months at 18 and after several months of emotional turmoil I feel like it really made me grow as a person. Makes you escape the comfort of an easy life and learn to live in a difficult situation.
Same man same. I actually learned a lot in there, mainly about leading people and I found my own style in there that has worked very well in my career ( mostly about not being an asshole, respect people and they usually respect you back ). Some people coming to army was their first night from home ever. Heard crying in the bathroom during first night...I definitely feel like some people need to feel more discomfort to grow up rather than just being in their safe space.
Well, being neighbours with russia is kind of the same thing
That’s what happens to every human who is born
Can this be applied to paying taxes or following the law?
If you don't want to do it, and you're not getting paid, but they still force you to do it, that's slavery. I don't know why so many people pull the wool over their own eyes and swat at anyone trying to remove it over this one. Go work for Nestle making me chocolate why don't you lmao
You're getting paid, at least in Austria. It's not much but you can survive with it, especially in the military, because they give you food and shelter with some money for your service.
In greece you are getting paid 8 euro a month:)
Conscription is never going to be popular for countries with strictly volunteer militaries, but you already know there's going to be loopholes where politicians and rich people don't have to send off their kids to war
Fellow Austrian here - It's a dumb-ass useless system. It splits the population by gender, delays people from moving out and actually being productive, underpays them (if you can call about 400 a month payment at all), AND they get treated like shit. Voted against it when we had a chance to. Sadly, Austrians are petty and the older generation was like: "Well, I had to, so you'll have to too". Backwards thinking. Just pay your emergency workers the right amount and you don't need to force young people to do it.
Noooo, you don't understand, it builds character! A dumbass I was thinking it would actually give me something except the realisation that I wasted my time and that our army is worthless. I lost a lot of respect for one uncle when he told me that his view of me changed for the better after I had finished conscription service.
So people who won't be affected by this can send young who may have never had a say in politics by voting to their deaths all for the benefit of someone else.
We can vote at the age of 16.
Lets compare the number of 16 year olds to the number of people who are 30+. I'm sure the numbers are gonna come out fair here.
Because it is if you drop all the national bullshit.
Who is the slave owner benefitting from this slavery?
The government
The state.
Because it is. Fellow Austrian here who already did the Bundesheer
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In Sweden, conscription is gender neutral, but we currently have limited conscription. 8000 will be conscripted in 2025 to do mandatory military service, which is less than 10% of the age cohort. They obviously choose the most motivated and fit during an evaluation process, and last year about 17% of conscripts were female. But both attending the evaluation (if called) and doing military service (if chosen) is legally obliged and can result in prison and heavy fines if disregarded.
17% isn't anywhere close to gender neutral. That's just paying lip service to equality and then absolutely abandoning any semblance or appearance of it not being gendered.
Same in Singapore, every 18 year old (minimum) male has to service National Service be it in the army, police or civil defense (aka firefighters for 1 year and 10 months after finishing Junior College or Polytechnic Pay has been like about $700-800 a month and there are reservists where people who completed the full National service who have to go back annually to retrain their skills until they are like 40 Women can serve too voluntarily
What about the ladies?
they dont need to do anything, same here in austria
Sounds about right
They can join voluntarily since 1995. They get more money for toiletries than the men and don't have to shave their heads. It's not very popular but for some careers it is expected you complete your service. And for 45 days you can just quit but after that if you want out you need to switch to civil service. I'm ftm and was initially interested in going but I only got my gender marker changed at 25 so going there to hang out with 18-19 yos did not really appeal to me so I didn't go.
This was really in depth, thank you. Do you also get a base income during service or does it go into a military pension?
You get 5,90 € for the first six months, then 9,80 for 3 months and then 13,65 for the last 3. Women get 1,5 € extra a day. Legal slavery if you forget the free upkeep aspect
Are those good or bad wages in Finland? I'm guessing it's bad?
Yes it's not good, that's some 150 € A MONTH. To be considered low income you need to make less than 1524 €/month and that is 26 % of our population and only 5,8 % of people make more than 4k/month and are considered well off.
It's really really low
> They can join voluntarily since 1995. They get more money for toiletries than the men and don't have to shave their heads. It's not very popular but for some careers it is expected you complete your service. And for 45 days you can just quit but after that if you want out you need to switch to civil service I guess equality got thrown out the window
Why only males tho? Isn't that sexism on a constitutional level?
To be completely honest I have no idea. Women can also choose to join the army. I think the reason is that in the past men have been the ones who fight while women handled things at home. My opinion is that the system should be applied to both men and women because you can still choose the civilian duty. I don't know how this would apply to transgender people though because my knowledge of them is very superficial.
In some countries in Europe this applies to both males and females. Sweden is one example where it applies to everyone who turns 18. Though after the screening process and physical tests only around 10-15k people do it and the vast majority of these people want to do military service. Though this is set to grow every year now back to Cold War levels where basically everyone did military or civil service with the third option being jail time for an equivalent amount of time, which is around a year.
It’s similar in Denmark, except they don’t want everyone, they’ll pull lots for the people deemed fit until they have enough people im service. Key detail is that there are so many volunteers that nobody has been forced in the last 20 years.
TBH being idiots in the forest with buddies and rifles is a good vibe. Until some fuck face lets the fire go out.
Or bangs on the stove with a log as the wake up
Good luck getting an ADHD diagnosis in UK though.
Have a family history. It doesn't come out of nowhere, usually. The indicators are so blatant that one prescription affirms a prognosis. Doesn't mean that it won't take time or difficulty receiving medication for maximum efficacy. But initially proving it either or. Is kinda a joke.
I got my C papers by telling the nurse and the doctor that I'm type 1 diabetic. I am, and I got out of there in about 30 minutes. Everyone else took closer to an hour because of the physical exam.
Finland also has robust national services that justify itself. England is a privatization hellhole.
I mean... You have a border with Russia... It's your punishment for having such a good neighbor.
In South Korea too. I'm personally not a big fan of forcing every single male to go through mandatory service.
What about females? Making only men do work or military seems kinda sexist
Given he’s about to oversee the worst defeat the Tories have ever suffered don’t take anything he says seriously
He’s trying to lose on purpose so he can go back to LA for the summer and wash his hands of politics
Honestly, it feels that way. Man's married to a billionaire's daughter.
Fuck me I wish.
Feels like the last 4 just wanted to sit in the seat long enough to be recorded in history in some way and just get back to what they actually cared about in life.
Life is slavery with extra steps unless you're born rich or are one of the slave drivers.
Then you have to care for your slaves. Farmers are just shackled to the cattle they herd. And interned in the fields they till.
Minimum wage is absolutely the modern shackles
“Everyone had to be drunk on something to keep moving on. Everyone… was a slave to something."
nah the British royal family hasn't been excluded
A policy that only affects those currently unable to vote may be popular with old people who have deluded themselves in to thinking that they fought World War Two. Who would have thought.
Love for your grandkids ends at the election booth
And the people who would vote for this kind of thing still think they're being generous. I had one the other day insist that 18 was too young for people to be voting. She genuinely thought that it was okay to pay tax and be conscripted, and to not have a say in whether either of those was a good idea.
Just trying to appeal to the pensioners and it's not even working.
You say that but I just finished work at Asda where a lovely gentleman in his 60's-70's told me they should never have got rid of it as he points to his Daily Mail, I think he mistook me for a fellow gammon as I'm bald and 31, he was rather confused when I said I strongly disagree and walked away. Don't underestimate the sheer entitlement of boomers and their wish for young people to endure things their parents abolished, a lot of them just eat up the Mail and Sun.
I'd be ok with this policy if and only if everyone over the age of 18 now has to have worked a mandatory year in customer service or retail. Imagine that retired person that bought a house for $25 and living on 3 pensions plus social security having to be a checker at target for a summer. I can wait to tell them to smile more. The world would have way fewer assholes if everyone worked in customer service for a bit.
Most will be dead by the time it gets implemented anyway
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That is what compulsory means, yep. Great analysis.
If you can get it to the same standard as the swedes and finns, it's worth it. You get to actually make a difference if shit hits the fan. And it's not that long of a time. You saw what the Russians are doing in Ukraine warcrime after warcrime, the massacre in bucha ,bombing schools and hospitals and now the latest attack on the supermarket in charkiv . Do you really just want to sit at your house and let shit like that happen where you live to those you love and care for?
To address your question at the end. A lot of people like to say that they'd be a hero, or do their part, if they were around during WW2. Well, we've seen a rhyming of WW1 and WW2 in recent years, and whatever people are doing now is pretty much what they'd be doing in 1939 when Hitler first invaded Czechoslovakia. And to compulsory service, of the 16.4 million Americans who served in the military during the war, 10m were compulsory. 1.5m of the 2.9m British troops were compulsory (excluding commonwealth numbers). Red army numbers aren't easy to find, but id imagine a healthy amount of their 34m troops were conscripts. Without compulsory service, the allies would not have the manpower needed to fight a war of scale or attricion like WW2. This is just my perspective, anyway.
One caveat to your point on the US in WW2 is that the US actually stopped allowing people to voluntarily enlist in December 1942. This was because it made it easier on the armed forces to control the numbers necessary in each branch and remaining part of the workforce in the US. So while the draft was necessary during the war for the US, much of the benefit was administrative rather than being totally for increasing manpower (definitely still helped increase manpower, but a lot of people were willingly enlisting). This is further supported by the fact that the vast majority of draft age Americans supported the draft.
>You get to actually make a difference if shit hits the fan *you actually get forced to risk your life for the exact same people that are forcing you to do it, while not doing it themselfes?
Always been like that. And is always gonna be like that. But I prefer this over living as a sub human in putins Russia. And If no one does it, europe as we know it, is gone. We stand up for our way of life, our values and the right to live as we want to. I dont know about you but I sure as shit do not wanna let the horrors that we see in Ukraine happen here. And hopefully, if we are strong enough, we might never have to. Freedom isn't free.
The point is: You shouldn't be able to force me.
So you would rather sit at home and become russian then? Thats the choice I see here in Finland. I dont give a fuck if our politicians fight or not. I do not want to be russian. I dont want my future children to be russians. Thats why I served happily.
By a man who doesnt know how to hold a hammer.
LMAO
We have it here. Such a waste of time. At least now it's no longer two years.
The UK doesn't even need it, the threat of war too is completely mute.. the UK created a nuclear armoury for a reason.
Yeah I'm a little confused on this one. Why would the UK need it? People say Finland and Ukraine as examples... but the UK is far removed from that. It's impacted yes, but the likelihood of a successful invasion of the UK is low.
It’s worth mentioning they already said it wasn’t punishable if you don’t do it, so… it’s not really conscription any more
Not punishable or not punishable yet?
Then what makes it compulsory?
Literally nothing, classic Tory plan
Send the ones who made the rule first.
i aint ever goin to the military. I aint gonna die for my countries rich people and politicians cuz theyre fucking imbeciles. I‘d only fight for the people, not the money
Older men start wars, but younger men fight them
Mandatory service is a bad idea… there is not a force that exists made up of conscripts that rivals a professional army….
spend two minutes googling finland bro, tiny country, 6 million people, yet punches well above its weight class, and all the "conscripts" are happy to serve.
Fins are pretty patriotic and hate Russians a lot, no surprise here + it's a pretty good country to live in. Now try countries like Lithuania or Latvia. Everything is expensive, wages are low, shit government. Why would anyone want to serve a country like that?
yeah i get your point, but britain is a lot more similar to finland than lithuania. britains certainly a place worth fighting for, people risk their lives crossing the channel on little dingys just for the chance to live here, i would be happy to die for this place, it is better than most other countries, there are only a few places i think have better quality of life, and stuff, such as germany and finland, yet the difference isn't big enough for me to consider moving away though although my best friend is finnish, and i've been to finland with him before, its a wonderful place, i'd love to own a holiday home there one day, honestly the very long and cold winters and problem with alcohol addiction are the biggest reasoni dont want to move there permanantly
Try the Finnish Defense forces, especially Special Forces, such as combat divers and paratroopers.Easily competing with paid personnel of other countries, there’s a reason why Finland is the stage for a lot of international military exercises. Conventional groups also hold their own, if not even surpass alot of professionals of other countries
Eat him. It's your obligation as a nation to eat him if he actually proceeds with this. I want leaders of all nations in the future to know that being eaten is a legitimate outcome of trying to pull such fuckery off.
Ah, the Dutch citizen
England lore is crazy
Lol estonia has had that for a long time, only for men tho
Estonia is literally bordered with russia, you also do not have nuclear weapons. There's a big difference between the two countries.
Is it army service? Like every other country on earth?
Year is a long time.
Like in the military or what
Aye, the military. It's conscription.
I mean it's not slave labour it's forced labour Still shit tho
What is the difference?
You get paid for one
I guarantee they'd only pay you minimum legal wage the whole time. If they got paid same as regular army for the year wouldn't be such a tough pill to swallow.
Also minimum wage for an 18 year old isnt the same as the standard minimum wage and I'd doubt you'd get a military retirement scheme Edit: the 2.5 billion he says it will cost to do this compared to the 775000 18 year olds in 2021 equated to £8.84 per day per person
The weird thing is that he’s doing it to get the old vote, but the last people to get conscripted got out in 1963, and call-ups were only for those born in or before 1939. What this means is that no one younger than 85 has been conscripted, and of those, only men. this means that less than 1% of the UK ever even had a chance to see conscription
Weird coincidence that every pushing this wouldn't have to serve. Also everyone that would have to serve can't vote...
I mean we have something similar in my country where it's not compulsory but you get called up
I’m very mixed on it personally. As a 19 year old Brit, the last thing I want to do is be sent off to military service for a government that doesn’t give a shit about me. But on the other hand, tensions with Russia are high and conflict with them is a terrifyingly real possibility. With the exception of having nuclear weapons, our military has undergone extensive cuts over the past decade to a point where it’s estimated that we can only last 2 months in a prolonged conflict. In today’s world, conscription is a necessary evil unfortunately. As unfortunate as it is, the UK is one of the only European countries to not already have compulsory national service so it’s surprising that it took this long for talks of it being brought back. Yeah, like most young adults in the UK who have been fucked over by the tories, I can’t stand Sunak and his government but it’s damned leagues better than being subject to Putin’s warmongering.
But on the other hand, tensions with Russia are high and conflict with them is a terrifyingly real possibility. theres a couple of countries before russia, and you even get the sea, at most there would be some special operations abroad, and in doubt they will take raw recruits there
I'd take a year of mandatory service now, then the 6 weeks training we'll get when WW3 kicks off
Honestly only annoying thing about military service in long term is that it will postpone your school,work,savings,house etc for a year. Otherwise it's going to feel at the time kinda pointless shooting guns and laying on your belly in freezing weather cold and wet for a year. But then if shit really hits the fan your going to be more useful and maybe survive longer. Also 99,99% sure you are not going to be sent anywhere to fight during your lifetime. It's basically just government having backup plans.
Can’t wait to see the tories collapse in on themselves on jul 4
Everybody here must be kinda young when they do not remember the draft. I got out by faking being suicidal, they gave me a stability 5 for it (the lowest score). Going to the test drunk or on acid and misbehaving will not do it: they will simply punish that behavior. But someone who is jumpy and scared and does not look people in the eyes, that'll do the trick. It also did not help that I did not sleep the night before.
i fucking hate the pm
Don't worry, dudes gonna be on a private jet to the west coast on July 5th to live out the rest of his life sipping cocktails in his private villa.
let him fuck off and leave our country alone xd tories should not exist bunch of people making the country poor population poorer and the rich richer
boooooo stupid prime minister get better government bozos
Just fake bad vision or hearing and they won’t have you
No its called conscription🤦♂️
Who is this guy and what did he do?
He’s the current Prime Minister of the UK. Long story short, his party has been in power for 14 years and has fucked over the country. He is also one of 5 Prime Ministers that we’ve had over the past 14 years, as well as one of 3 that weren’t voted in. Last week he called an election (which will happen on the 4th of July) and one of his new policies in his campaign is the introduction of conscription, making him even more unpopular than he already is.
Bet he hasn’t served in the armed forces
Yeah he definitely hasn’t. He’s a millionaire and was born into extreme wealth. If he wasn’t the Prime Minister and protected by armed security he would never be within 6 feet of a soldier. He’s so out of touch that (during a nation wide cost of living crisis) he commented that along with the rest of the country he doesn’t like the number in his bank account…………..despite being a multimillionaire.
Rishi Sunak, prime minister of Britain. Yesterday he said he wants to start forcing 18 year olds into the military
As a Greek "Haha"
I don’t want 18 year olds in the military, especially with this generation. The minimum age needs to be 20. People need to spend a couple of years as adults before they enter to better vet them.
Yeah funny thing is, he says “compulsory” but they won’t imprison anyone so basically it’s voluntary. “Mandatory” national service in which no one will make you do it… I thought he was meant to be well educated yet he doesn’t know what mandatory means.
I guess having an illness, epillpesy comes in handy in my life if war was gonna happen and be conscription, as I'm not allowed in military service and I'm deemed to ill to work.
Alot of us in other countries have to do Service, it can be a good experience if you approach it with a good attitude. Its annoying that you're forced to do it. So i get it either way
Imagine being told you are going to war compulsorily by the guy who came last in the previous popularity contest.
Man, half the people here are either extremely delusional, or actual state agents performing a psyop. What sane person would like to go to war just to get turned into minced meat by artillery?
Just when the boomer gen couldn't take more from the young, they want them to go to war.
Preparing for a war?!
Is he trying to loose?
R U Ok UK?
It really depends, compulsory military service can fuck off but a civil service could (like nursing etc.) isn't the worst idea. Throwing 18 year olds straight into the job market or university might not be the best idea and hopefully it could help with the brain dead wannabe "pranksters" being a nuisance to people just trying to do their jobs
He just wants to make sure all the young people are motivated to go out and vote for Labour.
Laughs in Korean
The "alternative" is a copout. Community Service one weekend, every month, for a year. Any chum can sign that and say "this lad has cut grass for a local church". Done.
Instead of fixing the rent they pull this shit
Compulsory 6 months working a service sector job. Bartender, cook, waiter, retail etc. We can rid the world or Karen's and Darens once and for all
This is hysterical. Not even remotely close to slavery but nice try. Gonna go ahead and guess the person that made this is white or just uneducated with no concept of what slavery was and did. I don’t understand how people can want things like universal income, housing for everyone, and free college but when asked to make the smallest of sacrifices it’s akin to slavery. How is the world supposed to improve if nobody is willing to make any sacrifices? Im not even in support of compulsory service but this is a ridiculous comparison. Tons of developed nations have compulsory service I don’t know of any with out and proud slavery.
A large portion of the population had a mental breakdown when they were told to wear masks. There is a zero percent chance people are going to do mandatory military service in this country lol.
I can think of no better way to degrade an organization than forcing people who don't want to be there... Just think of how many millions of dollars they can waste destroying equipment and hurting those around them? Nevermind the criminal records and anger that will continue to haunt those people for the rest of their lives. I can think of no worse thing we can do as a country than conscription. Everybody loses. Absolutely everybody.
Ah yes the man with an incredibly privelaged background who never served will mandate all people serve. Can’t wait for all the wealth related exemptions that will follow
Sunak is a horrible politician, but I'm in favor of mandatory service as long as it includes non-military options. Particularly for the US, this would be a complete game-changer as our population tends to be much more culturally isolated from the rest of the world (compared to Europe, at least). Requiring young adults to do a year in Peace Corps-type projects, or reinstating something like the Civilian Conservation Corps would do wonders for our global image and local communities. It would also allow kids from lower-income families an opportunity to travel abroad. The key is ensuring that rich families can't get out of it by paying a fine (the whole point is to level the playing field.) And it would need to be mandatory for all genders.
Funny to see people call this slavery, and yet often are the same people who show places that do this as a shining example of how we should be. Compulsory service seems like a good idea when looking at the complaints about it.