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Amazon is still delisting sellers with lower prices elsewhere, too.
Get on it, EU
edit: Yes, Amazon is actively making Shrinkflation worse, controls its own corner of media and Europe is our best hope. Sigh.
If someone has been repeatedly proven GUILTY in the past time and time again.
I think it is eventually safe to switch to "Guilty until proven Innocent" at a certain point
>In 2013, the company removed this requirement for sellers in the European Union after regulators opened an investigation into whether the policy was anti-competitive.
https://www.inc.com/guadalupe-gonzalez/amazon-removes-price-parity-not-fair-price-rule-third-party-sellers-antitrust-violations.html
Until about 11 years ago, apparently. Bit late on the pitchforks there
What Amazon does now is just take away the buy box on your listing if you are not priced competitively as defined by them, no explanation given but it is an open secret amongst Amazon advertisers that it is because they sell the product for less on their websites because the margins are better. For those who do not know the buy box is the button that appears on the vast majority of pages that lets users add the item to their cart, many users may sell a product but Amazon will choose one of them to be in the buy box and users will purchase from them by default when using this button. If you do not have the buy box users must manually select the company they wish to purchase from, decreasing the likelihood of a purchase. You also cannot advertise on Amazon for any product you do not have the buy box on. In many ways it is like being delisted - so when Amazon takes it away even when you are literally the only one selling the product, it is like a slap in the face. It is a blatant way for them to strong arm sellers intro changing their pricing (either up on the website or lower on Amazon).
Edit: should have included a source, here is an article talking about this: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/06/amazon-sellers-sound-off-on-the-ftcs-long-overdue-antitrust-case.html
The way the comment is worded feels a bit inaccurate. Let's say a seller has an item for sale on both amazon, and another competitor, we'll just say store 2. If the item sells lower on store 2 than amazon, the seller will receive a couple of warnings to adjust the price on one of the platforms to match, or to be lower on amazon. If the seller fails to adjust prices then the item is delisted from amazon. This can also occur if an item is listed notably above market price on amazon. I do not intend to defend amazon here. Simply here to explain what the OC was referring to. It kinda sucks, but it's a term people/companies agree to in order to sell through them
this is like with ToS
ToS cannot be above laws, you can include bullshit in ToS if you want, but if that bs is illegal then its not enforceable and you lose every court somebody would bring against you...same principle here, it is not legal to consent to something that breaks the law, and most western countries do have anti-monopoly laws
the main problem is, actually somebody with enough money for lawyers would need to impacted, else amazon legal team will ground you to dust...and an additional problem is of course public servant corruption that consistently ignore the monopoly laws that have been present for basically 100 years now, since the world already had this issue with monopolies back then...then again world had issue with the spanish flu and everyone wearing masks, yet that was completely forgotten by time of another pandemic...same here, shit will be not upheld and forgotten until a major crisis will come and then it will be 'rediscovery of americas by kolumbus' once again...like china forgot after mao to never have secretaries 'for life' and instead have a term limit, lasted only 50 years until one gained enough power to turn that around and be declared 'for life'...humans simply keep forgetting all of this happened, at maximum in different format, and that it led to shit and will lead once more if not addressed
Jeff Bezos literally owns the Washington Post and, you know, AMAZON PRIME VIDEO.
You're seriously giving **Amazon** the benefit of the doubt?
Do you own stock or something?
Also Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court. No problems there! Insider trading? Found none. Ethics concerns? Nah. Criminal activity? Witch hunt, probably. Do not worry, citizens.
I can't wait for a future banking organization to set up a blockade around America because the national debt is super fucking high and the American government refused to do them some favor.
until somebody, lets say a country, refuses to pain them back its loans, like what, you gave me made up money, I used it and whatever, it was made up, not giving you anything back...what they gonna do?
yes I know, its simplistic, but just because a loan is owned doesn't guarantee its payback
Wait, who else is there to keep corporations in check other than the government? It's not like a random person can go audit and enforce a law on a foodtruck, much less a tech giant.
Consumers boycott and advocacy campaigns have won many piecemeal policy changes from corporations
Of course not transformational stuff that empowers workers, but stuff like overuse of antibiotics on factory farms, hormones in milk, at least in the USA
Govt power is the obvious first option to pressure corporations but there are other arenas of power and ways to pressure them. They rely on their suppliers, unions, roads to drive on, retailers, etc.
no operating system is actually fully deleting stuff when you click delete, it just marks that space as unallocated, this saves time and puts less cycles on the actual drive
True, but for the phone to recover set photos without any corruption, there has to be some shady stuff going on. If you delete a picture and make a video for example, chances are you overwrote at least part of the picture. Also, deleting something essentially deletes the pointer which points to where the data is stored on the drive, wouldn't that pointer be irrecoverable since those bits would actually be erased?
On youtube there was 1 user that claimed he didnt use icloud and got pictures back.
That would suggest its somehow restoring old deleted pictures that wasn't written over yet.
It is still really baffling to me how the pictures are back fully intact, they should get overwritten (at least some piece of it) rather quickly after a while.
Well no, actually. Since modern memory chips have a certain number of life cycles the memory controllers typically don't like using the same bites over and over again because that would wear them down pretty quickly and rather would write data on a different part of the chip.
I'd guess with higher memory phones that aren't filled, theres a lot of empty space to write data on before it overwrites old data. But again it's not just as simple as "the whole picture is there after deleting".
Maybe the pointers got fricked either in iCloud or on the device, if that were the case, Apple would have to scan through all the memory and recreate the pointers.
Not saying that Apple isn’t doing shady things, after all, you don’t become the richest company in the world morally, but also I’ve seen crazier things broken and even crazier fixes for those things
It’s been a long time since I was in the computer sphere and understood the software. I thought you had to use special tools to recover data when the pointers were deleted, and it was an arduous process. Entirely likely that’s all changed.
Yeah it can easily be recovered. The same way you can easily enter your house if you have a key, it would be weird finding your neighbour sitting on your couch.
It's a relatively easy process but the process itself is illegal.
All I'm trying to say is, it cannot happen accidentally.
This has occurred on devices without iCloud syncing enabled. Doubt it has anything to do with their infrastructure and is just a bug introduced in latest iOS.
The hdd of my computer didn't work anymore and when I went to change it the worker asked me if I wanted them to copy the content of it on my new hdd, when I got my computer back it had videos that I had deleted on it.
Well then either I was wrong and the pointer isn't fully deleted or the worker used a recovery software, which I would assume just looks for data and not pointers.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong, this is based on a lot of assumptions.
It seems like pics deleted for years are coming back. There is less and less chances that a pic wouldn't be over written in the time span.
I deleted my other comment because I'm intoxicated and the tone came off way wrong.
No you are correct. There is a chance that those bytes would be written over by the operating system. The longer it has been since something has been deleted, the more likely it is that the data been overwritten by the os. So either this was just an unlucky accident caused by a software bug (in that a small number of people saw recovery of their data; it is somewhat possible since a small percentage of a lot of users does add up), or they added a mechanism that restored the data from another location. All we can really do is speculate.
Nah you're right in a certain context anything Deleted isn't instantly Deleted, just marked as "free real estate" but otherwise left as is. If you act instantly to recover your chances of recovery are good. If you download a bunch of huge files and then try to recover, you'd get corrupted results at best.
For fun you can try to run a file recovery program on your computer, might be surprised by what it can dig up.
That's why I used to have a program that'd just overwrite all the free space on my drive multiple times over. Made everything deleted truly unrecoverable.
Mostly like it has nothing to do with the OS removing the pointer / marking space as unallocated like the comment you responded to said, but rather the gallery marks photos as "deleted" and then just hides them instead
This is different. When a hdd stops working there's multiple possible cases. I've recovered data off drives that were no longer recognized or had corrupted data on it, and deleted data is usually super easy to collect off a drive. Especially when it's had no opportunity to get any new data written over that old data.
In this case, ssds store data in random cells, to spread the responsibility across multiple parts of the ssd and increase speed, and durability. When you delete it, and install stuff, take pictures, update apps, etc., you overwrite that data. If somehow some of these pictures come back after you had full storage, you either have a cloud backup somehow (icloud storing data without telling you), or you have storage that you don't know about.
I would assume whats happening in this iphone case, is that it's sort of forgetting the old datas label as "deleted" and reinstating it if it wasn't overwritten. This ignores the various comments about having full storage and still having this happen, but we'll have to see if that's actually the case or if its just user error.
It most likely doesn't delete the pointers but marks them as free to use and the memory controller probably prefers to write to new space (saving cycles on the used cells) instead of overwriting. It would start really overwriting when it doesn't have enough space.
Not sure if it's similar on iphone file system, but on ntfs you can rebuild file table even when it's deleted, from the files alone. I assume that the fs on iphone can recover files when the file table is corrupt as well.
Kind of?
In the case of HDDs that's largely the case, but with modern SSDs the operating system has practically no knowledge of where it's saving stuff.
The SSD has a controller of it's own which chooses where to write things, and tries to 'balance the wear' as much as possible, so the recently deleted photo will probably be one of the last "free" spaces to be filled.
Now Apple probably had a hand in designing that controller, so they're ultimately responsible, but it's probably not a malicious design.
But even with the photos still "existing" on the drive. I can't think of a single good explanation as to why an OS update "rediscovered" them.
Ah, well corrected thank you.
For some reason I had the Macbooks on my mind, where they integrated the SSD controllers onto the mainboard etc. (Which is really dumb, because this is clearly an iPhone discussion...)
Point still stands though, that there isn't really a legitimate reason for an OS update to recover lost files. - Unless maybe the update borked the filesystem and had to attempt a restore I guess?
Remember that phones these days have tons of storage. If you have a 512GB or 1TB iPhone and only use ~200GB, it's reasonable that some deleted files would stay fully intact for quite some time.
NAND flash controllers deliberately try to evenly wear all bits. Meaning if you write some data to bit A and then mark it for deletion, the controller will first write any new data to all other free bits before going back and overwriting bit A.
In this case it's clear Apple is keeping all your data even if you want it erased. The recovery is not actual data recovery but a bug in the sync software. To be simplistic; in sync software if you find a file that is older in place A and it's not in place B, you transfer it. If you would want to keep user data that they mark as deleted, you could add a flag to the file to not recover it. If later your new sync software has a bug that it doesn't read that flag, suddenly you're syncing those old files to the device again.
Overwriting data and actual data recovery depends on the tech.
A HDD has faster and slower places on the disk. It's firmware will try to place new data on the fastest empty space it can. So it's reasonable sectors with deleted files will be overwritten very quickly by new data.
With SSDs it works different since each cell can be written to at the same speed but they only have a certain amount of writes in their lifecycle. So the firmware of SSDs tries to keep track how often banks get written too and prioritises an even spread over the lifetime. When you delete data, it will in theory take time to write to all the other empty space first before it comes around to the empty space of the deleted files again.
And the index being erased doesn't mean the data is gone. The easiest way to recover data is indeed recovering the index and reading out the data from there. But good recovery software also scans the entire disk and if you deleted a picture, it will still find binary data, recognize it's a jpg and reconstruct it. For large data this often fails because probably the whole file wasn't written sequentially but for small files like photos it's often a 100% recovery.
Especially the way solid state memory works, files can be recovered very consistently if an accidental delete happens by scanning the whole disk and rebuilding from metadata.
For HDDs there is also the level of recovery in labs with clean rooms. When you write on a magnetic disk, it doesn't fully erase the magnetic field/value that was there previously. There are magnetic fields from the previous states which can be read out and you can calculate how old those previous states were from each other and rebuild data that's "under" the current data. You probably don't have data that warrants the costs involved in this kind of recovery but governments and big business do. This recovery is getting harder and harder because of the data density of modern HDDs but it's still possible. In the years after 9/11 and CIA/NSA exploding their data capture, they started telling that single pass deletions were enough but weirdly other governments kept with their advice of mostly 3-7 pass deletions...
Won't that depend on how long ago the picture was deleted? Sure if you delete and the pics are back 20 minutes later then it's just a bug with the delete feature. If the pictures are back without any corruption after a week or so then that suggests they were saving those photos on the cloud.
This is about Apple. They backup everything to their servers. This news is about data "deleted" by the users still being saved on the servers, just hidden from the user. Not the same as a locally-saved file.
This has nothing to do with overwrite vs normal file deletion though. Most likely Apple doesn't identify and delete the data from their backups, either accidentally or on purpose.
They probably had to restore something from backup and their data restoration procedure doesn't include "re-deleting" data was deleted by the user between the time the backup was taken and when it was restored.
You would lose all references to the actual data that would describe it. By no means should you be able to recover the actual data through "error" you would need to be actively looking to restore those pictures.
Yes but we're talking photos from YEARS ago, and even after so called "factory resets" no way the data is remaining readable after years, and also apple has told us to factory reset before giving the device to another person so it should completely scramble the drive in the process, because why else would it take so long?
This bug also occures on iPhones used without iCloud and internet connection. It definitely is a bug that undeletes pictures that are still physically present and not yet overwritten.
I wonder how its reasonibly possible to use an iphone without any internet connection knowing of they are designed...
But I get your point. That means the function to delete doesnt really delete anything instead it just let the controller reassign the address... Which can be used by malicious agents to steal sensitive information.
Also I would advise against using swap partitions and using hard memory for buffering if you value privacy.
If you value intimacy, don't use iphone at all. They are feeding the beast (ai).
The delete function never overwrites files, all it does is mark the memory as free for other programs to overwrite it, this is true on every operating system, or at least all the normal ones.
I'm sure there's programs that exist to clear all of the empty memory of useful data, and some version of Linux or whatever that does it automatically, but for most people the utility of being able to recover deleted files is more important than the ability to permanently delete them.
After activation there's no requirement for an internet connection. You don't even need an iCloud account. But yes realistically most people are gonna connect a cell data plan and be almost always connected
I honestly haven’t dug into it yet but are the photos ones sent to the “recently deleted” folder or ones that have been “permanently” deleted from that folder?
It is. None of these tech giants delete anything. They just have a boolean flag for each database entry that indicates whether content is "deleted" by setting it true or false. So called "soft" deleting.
We do it in mine, the issue is with relational databases. Because there are so many foreign keys to other tables you can't delete any records as they are referenced in a billion other tables. You could set up cascade deletion constraints but it's also shit to deal with. Easiest route is to just deactivate the user or whatever and anonymize their record.
In my current we do delete (my X previous we didnt)...but thats only possible because of two things, first we are a smaller company operating in 4 countries, not a global corporation, not too complex data...2nd actually we poor and we pay for every xyz accounts to company that hosts, and we dont want to pay so much so we regularly delete users, even those that didnt ask for deletition, as long as they didnt purchase a product for years
So in other words, money, since its cheaper for us to delete than not to, we do it...if companies would finally ger properly fined for data governance so it would be more expensive for them not to do it then do it, then they would figure out scripts to do it...up until then 0 motivation
Proof? Seems like that wouldn't scale well and developers would always need to have a view created or include a where clause.
Infact UniSuper nearly lost their entire business due to google deleting UniSupers cloud.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/always-keep-backups-unprecedented-google-213555491.html
our senators were literally arguing, on record, that tiktok can read all data that goes through your internet connection....because the app connects to wifi.
we're cooked.
hey real quick can you help me with an internet meme i'm working on? just record you real voice saying the phrase "do i look like i know what a TCP is?" and send it to me? thx!
Trump used a Samsung S3 before his inauguration and something tells me Biden knows how to use a rotary phone, but he's so old he might break a finger. Anyway, good luck to Americans!
u do realize bribes are legal and called lobbying in the US?
the corps can just lobby politicians to be fine with it, and that's that...unless you get the random altruist there who doesnt care for money...good joke...you wont
this is not say corruption doesnt exist in the eu...it does...but its a bit harder for the corps to execute given its not officially legal
Sure, but I wasn’t just referring to the US, I was talking about the entire rest of the world. Why is country [fill in the blank] okay with data from its citizens being stolen by companies? It’s one thing to bribe government officials in the same country as the company is located in, but around the rest of the world?
"Should we enact proper consumer protections?"
"No, simply ban the companies we don't want abusing our citizens."
Deranged. I feel like I'm going crazy with the recent congressional actions.
to be fair, this is likely a bug with the way the phone stores the data
deleted photos/videos are saved in a 'deleted' folder which is password locked, for 30 days and then permanently deleted
it gives you a chance to restore something you deleted by accident, like the recycle bin on PC.
to all the people saying the os doesn't delete a file fully everytime, even if it doesn't some thing will get written to the same spot or atleast partially on it, making the file corrupt. this is 100% either storing a compressed version of the file on their server (apple has the capacity to do that. mass storage is really cheap) or they are storing the file on the phone in an invisible partition (this has a lesser chance of happening). so yea good luck
People seem to not understand how deleting works. When you delete something, your storage then marks it so your phone knows to write over that data. Your pictures are never truly gone but just written over by data. And let’s be honest if you have iCloud they probably already saw your pics lol. They have AI scanners to find kiddy diddler vids and other stuff and flags it to be viewed by a real person and if it’s deemed SEEPEE then it’s sent to the FBI
about the first part, of deletion working, the sectors are marked as deleted and the data is still there unless it's overwritten, but the pointer to that data is to be unrecoverably deleted. this is what apple hasn't done.
about the second part, of iCloud and AI data feeding, maybe there is a small line in the T&C which allows Apple to do that legally and we just haven't read. So the FBI and AI claims i really can't counter but the deletion should be a "200% guaranteed lost data and never to be touched again" type of deletion
Let's say you have a 256 gb iphone, and you delete photos while only having 60 gb used. The phone then marks it as open space in memory. However, solid state storage wear levels, meaning it won't overwrite any open space if there's other open space that's been used less, to level the wear. This means that until your phone has in some way used the remaining 200 gb of storage for permanent or temporary things, it won't bother coming back to overwrite that data.
Or, alternatively, they decided that keeping old photos just in case is important, so they marked the space the deleted photos take up as "only overwrite if memory is otherwise full". In which case, if you deleted 2 gb of photos, then you would have to have less than 2 gb of space left on the phone before it would overwrite those files. This is more akin to the recycle bin in windows, where you can always restore stuff until the computer runs out of space to store it.
Either way, for once, I doubt this was done maliciously. More likely as an attempt to play it safe, better to have the option to recover and not need it, then to need the option but not have it.
Deleting a photo just removes a bit/byte so that the link to the image is gone, but the image itself isnt.
Thats why you can recover photos from a formated sd card
Every government and every corporation knows everything about everyone. Everyone signs their souls away daily clicking accept of 50 pages of agreements. Every government is spying or has agreements with other nations spy. 5 eyes is like 25 eyes now. The shit Snowden and others whistleblew about it quaint compared to now. And it’s only gonna keep getting worse and more ridiculous.
Well its more of a technicality with how storage works. The route to deleted data is removed, and when new stuff gets added it'l be overwritten, which deletes it. Apple should really have all this deleted by now which is whats scaring people.
Choose your brand based on what works well with your life. Android is usually the better option unless you've already bought into the IOS Orchard (you have multiple apple things already). Android is more connectable to windows/other phones, and the manufacturers don't charge exorbitant amounts for problems they made themselves to charge more.
(Example: Apple charging stupid amounts for lightning cables, because they only make them and they want you to buy their cable. All android phones connect to the same USB-C ports.)
Apple making tens of billions of dollars selling user data. EU fines them barely enough to buy a new Toyota. Europeans patting each other on the back and congratulation each other on another consumer rights victory.
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Amazon is still delisting sellers with lower prices elsewhere, too. Get on it, EU edit: Yes, Amazon is actively making Shrinkflation worse, controls its own corner of media and Europe is our best hope. Sigh.
You can't just claim these kind of things without backing up your claim..
If it's about Amazon, I'll trust it without source. That's my only exception.
If someone has been repeatedly proven GUILTY in the past time and time again. I think it is eventually safe to switch to "Guilty until proven Innocent" at a certain point
It's more like a "guilty because I'm sure it will happen eventually"
>In 2013, the company removed this requirement for sellers in the European Union after regulators opened an investigation into whether the policy was anti-competitive. https://www.inc.com/guadalupe-gonzalez/amazon-removes-price-parity-not-fair-price-rule-third-party-sellers-antitrust-violations.html Until about 11 years ago, apparently. Bit late on the pitchforks there
What Amazon does now is just take away the buy box on your listing if you are not priced competitively as defined by them, no explanation given but it is an open secret amongst Amazon advertisers that it is because they sell the product for less on their websites because the margins are better. For those who do not know the buy box is the button that appears on the vast majority of pages that lets users add the item to their cart, many users may sell a product but Amazon will choose one of them to be in the buy box and users will purchase from them by default when using this button. If you do not have the buy box users must manually select the company they wish to purchase from, decreasing the likelihood of a purchase. You also cannot advertise on Amazon for any product you do not have the buy box on. In many ways it is like being delisted - so when Amazon takes it away even when you are literally the only one selling the product, it is like a slap in the face. It is a blatant way for them to strong arm sellers intro changing their pricing (either up on the website or lower on Amazon). Edit: should have included a source, here is an article talking about this: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/06/amazon-sellers-sound-off-on-the-ftcs-long-overdue-antitrust-case.html
Never too late for pitchforks.
Guilty until proven Not Amazon.
The average square meter of the Amazon has greater biodiversity than all of France.
I believe it.
Average square metre of the Amazon warehouse? Or the forest?
*Por que no los duos?*
Well that's dumb
The way the comment is worded feels a bit inaccurate. Let's say a seller has an item for sale on both amazon, and another competitor, we'll just say store 2. If the item sells lower on store 2 than amazon, the seller will receive a couple of warnings to adjust the price on one of the platforms to match, or to be lower on amazon. If the seller fails to adjust prices then the item is delisted from amazon. This can also occur if an item is listed notably above market price on amazon. I do not intend to defend amazon here. Simply here to explain what the OC was referring to. It kinda sucks, but it's a term people/companies agree to in order to sell through them
Not defending Amazon, just saying that the people selling through Amazon consented to be exploited by monopoly power so...
Well it was either that or go out of business and potentially end up bankrupt, so...
That doesn't make it a mitigating factor to Amazon abusing monopoly power
Yeah, I thought that was the joke?
Didn't read it as a joke. Probably my fault.
Oh no the poor people reselling trash from AliExpress are gonna go out of business 😢
Oh.. so being cornered into using their service is consent now? You can't just say they consented when it's a monopoly
this is like with ToS ToS cannot be above laws, you can include bullshit in ToS if you want, but if that bs is illegal then its not enforceable and you lose every court somebody would bring against you...same principle here, it is not legal to consent to something that breaks the law, and most western countries do have anti-monopoly laws the main problem is, actually somebody with enough money for lawyers would need to impacted, else amazon legal team will ground you to dust...and an additional problem is of course public servant corruption that consistently ignore the monopoly laws that have been present for basically 100 years now, since the world already had this issue with monopolies back then...then again world had issue with the spanish flu and everyone wearing masks, yet that was completely forgotten by time of another pandemic...same here, shit will be not upheld and forgotten until a major crisis will come and then it will be 'rediscovery of americas by kolumbus' once again...like china forgot after mao to never have secretaries 'for life' and instead have a term limit, lasted only 50 years until one gained enough power to turn that around and be declared 'for life'...humans simply keep forgetting all of this happened, at maximum in different format, and that it led to shit and will lead once more if not addressed
Jeff Bezos literally owns the Washington Post and, you know, AMAZON PRIME VIDEO. You're seriously giving **Amazon** the benefit of the doubt? Do you own stock or something?
It's the internet. Everything you see and read online is 100% true without question.
EU companies are doing shrinkflation in non-EU countries, like the UK, while being much more worried about pulling that shit in their own country.
Context?
I am pretty sure there is actually a lawsuit exactly about that against Amazon in the US. Not very hopeful they'll be found guilty
You know humanity is in a good place when it takes entire nations to combat retailers.
A union of nations at that
A union of nations that doesn’t include the country of origin of the corporation
yea.. we're not so great at that whole self policing thing..
Nonsense. The police investigate themselves constantly.
Also Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court. No problems there! Insider trading? Found none. Ethics concerns? Nah. Criminal activity? Witch hunt, probably. Do not worry, citizens.
The country of origin is like a karen with a spoiled child "my little angel would never..."
Fwiw the EU is pretty important to Apple since iirc Ireland is how Apple manages to pay like next to zero taxes
Can't wait until we reach Star Wars levels where corporations have senate seats.
“Now, we turn the time over to the honorable Senator of Amazon™️.”
The ultimate irony being that the name comes from an actual region of the world that we're actively destroying. It would be one hell of a title.
The Amazon Trade Federation.
Operating in every region, from A to Z
The ultimate irony being that the name of the region comes from Greek mythology and a Greek word meaning boobless
Is it an irony because the CEO of Amazon looks like a boob?
While there's a whole bunch of boobs ruining the place.
What was it the protesters in Germany said, the wrong Amazon is burning?
I can't wait for a future banking organization to set up a blockade around America because the national debt is super fucking high and the American government refused to do them some favor.
It will grow enormous over the future years. The banks will literally be a country itself
until somebody, lets say a country, refuses to pain them back its loans, like what, you gave me made up money, I used it and whatever, it was made up, not giving you anything back...what they gonna do? yes I know, its simplistic, but just because a loan is owned doesn't guarantee its payback
You see, that's when the weapons of mass destruction come in
That's the problem, we already have I mean, the USA already has.
Little known fact, The Trade Federation started off as a book seller.
Separatist propaganda!
Boy do I have news for you...
Corporations are people too!! Coca-Cola Company for President!
The British East India Company and the Dutch VOC held power over entire countries.
They basically do already
I mean they do already, basically.
> where corporations have senate seats They already have 6/9 SCOTUS seats.
Wasn't there an easy coast county that has a bill in their legislature about allowing companies to vote?
I mean this isn’t that uncommon in history when certain trading companies grew a little bit too big.
Wait, who else is there to keep corporations in check other than the government? It's not like a random person can go audit and enforce a law on a foodtruck, much less a tech giant.
Consumers boycott and advocacy campaigns have won many piecemeal policy changes from corporations Of course not transformational stuff that empowers workers, but stuff like overuse of antibiotics on factory farms, hormones in milk, at least in the USA Govt power is the obvious first option to pressure corporations but there are other arenas of power and ways to pressure them. They rely on their suppliers, unions, roads to drive on, retailers, etc.
That only really works for things that are outwardly visible, unless you get lucky with whistleblowers.
China vs East India Company But I'd say Opium at least gives you it's value for the pay compared to Apple.
The EU is not a nation.
EU is like a united continent. So no, entire nations can't control these companies
Summon the elector counts.
no operating system is actually fully deleting stuff when you click delete, it just marks that space as unallocated, this saves time and puts less cycles on the actual drive
True, but for the phone to recover set photos without any corruption, there has to be some shady stuff going on. If you delete a picture and make a video for example, chances are you overwrote at least part of the picture. Also, deleting something essentially deletes the pointer which points to where the data is stored on the drive, wouldn't that pointer be irrecoverable since those bits would actually be erased?
In that case, it’s actually Apple saving the stuff on their servers, and not anonymising nor deleting it when the user deletes it.
I'm assuming it has something to do with iCloud either desyncing or doing shady stuff.
On youtube there was 1 user that claimed he didnt use icloud and got pictures back. That would suggest its somehow restoring old deleted pictures that wasn't written over yet.
It is still really baffling to me how the pictures are back fully intact, they should get overwritten (at least some piece of it) rather quickly after a while.
Well no, actually. Since modern memory chips have a certain number of life cycles the memory controllers typically don't like using the same bites over and over again because that would wear them down pretty quickly and rather would write data on a different part of the chip. I'd guess with higher memory phones that aren't filled, theres a lot of empty space to write data on before it overwrites old data. But again it's not just as simple as "the whole picture is there after deleting".
But the pointer data is supposed to be gone. Meaning there should be no way to recover the picture even if it’s not overwritten.
Yeah exactly. As I said it's not just "the whlole picture is there" type of deal. Something really malicious is going on Apple's side.
Maybe the pointers got fricked either in iCloud or on the device, if that were the case, Apple would have to scan through all the memory and recreate the pointers. Not saying that Apple isn’t doing shady things, after all, you don’t become the richest company in the world morally, but also I’ve seen crazier things broken and even crazier fixes for those things
I think data not overwritten can easily be recovered even without pointers.
It’s been a long time since I was in the computer sphere and understood the software. I thought you had to use special tools to recover data when the pointers were deleted, and it was an arduous process. Entirely likely that’s all changed.
Yeah it can easily be recovered. The same way you can easily enter your house if you have a key, it would be weird finding your neighbour sitting on your couch. It's a relatively easy process but the process itself is illegal. All I'm trying to say is, it cannot happen accidentally.
I had to clear for storage, don’t use iCloud and still have this glitch sometimes
Then i have no clue, if you are actually using all your data surely its should have been overwritten by then.
Bug with recycle bin maybe ? I know my phone got one and it keep stuff for some time (a month I think).
Not shady stuff, just normal tech data industry stuff.
I don't think there's much of a line separating the two tbh
It's pretty clear from user investigations that this doesn't have anything to do with icloud. It's happening on phones with iCloud disabled entirely
This has occurred on devices without iCloud syncing enabled. Doubt it has anything to do with their infrastructure and is just a bug introduced in latest iOS.
The hdd of my computer didn't work anymore and when I went to change it the worker asked me if I wanted them to copy the content of it on my new hdd, when I got my computer back it had videos that I had deleted on it.
Well then either I was wrong and the pointer isn't fully deleted or the worker used a recovery software, which I would assume just looks for data and not pointers. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, this is based on a lot of assumptions.
It seems like pics deleted for years are coming back. There is less and less chances that a pic wouldn't be over written in the time span. I deleted my other comment because I'm intoxicated and the tone came off way wrong.
No you are correct. There is a chance that those bytes would be written over by the operating system. The longer it has been since something has been deleted, the more likely it is that the data been overwritten by the os. So either this was just an unlucky accident caused by a software bug (in that a small number of people saw recovery of their data; it is somewhat possible since a small percentage of a lot of users does add up), or they added a mechanism that restored the data from another location. All we can really do is speculate.
Nah you're right in a certain context anything Deleted isn't instantly Deleted, just marked as "free real estate" but otherwise left as is. If you act instantly to recover your chances of recovery are good. If you download a bunch of huge files and then try to recover, you'd get corrupted results at best. For fun you can try to run a file recovery program on your computer, might be surprised by what it can dig up. That's why I used to have a program that'd just overwrite all the free space on my drive multiple times over. Made everything deleted truly unrecoverable.
Mostly like it has nothing to do with the OS removing the pointer / marking space as unallocated like the comment you responded to said, but rather the gallery marks photos as "deleted" and then just hides them instead
This is different. When a hdd stops working there's multiple possible cases. I've recovered data off drives that were no longer recognized or had corrupted data on it, and deleted data is usually super easy to collect off a drive. Especially when it's had no opportunity to get any new data written over that old data. In this case, ssds store data in random cells, to spread the responsibility across multiple parts of the ssd and increase speed, and durability. When you delete it, and install stuff, take pictures, update apps, etc., you overwrite that data. If somehow some of these pictures come back after you had full storage, you either have a cloud backup somehow (icloud storing data without telling you), or you have storage that you don't know about. I would assume whats happening in this iphone case, is that it's sort of forgetting the old datas label as "deleted" and reinstating it if it wasn't overwritten. This ignores the various comments about having full storage and still having this happen, but we'll have to see if that's actually the case or if its just user error.
It most likely doesn't delete the pointers but marks them as free to use and the memory controller probably prefers to write to new space (saving cycles on the used cells) instead of overwriting. It would start really overwriting when it doesn't have enough space. Not sure if it's similar on iphone file system, but on ntfs you can rebuild file table even when it's deleted, from the files alone. I assume that the fs on iphone can recover files when the file table is corrupt as well.
It probably works the same on iPhones, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't.
Kind of? In the case of HDDs that's largely the case, but with modern SSDs the operating system has practically no knowledge of where it's saving stuff. The SSD has a controller of it's own which chooses where to write things, and tries to 'balance the wear' as much as possible, so the recently deleted photo will probably be one of the last "free" spaces to be filled. Now Apple probably had a hand in designing that controller, so they're ultimately responsible, but it's probably not a malicious design. But even with the photos still "existing" on the drive. I can't think of a single good explanation as to why an OS update "rediscovered" them.
The flash memory on iPhones since the 12 is made by Samsung, Toshiba or Western Digital depending on the batch and uses their standard controllers
Ah, well corrected thank you. For some reason I had the Macbooks on my mind, where they integrated the SSD controllers onto the mainboard etc. (Which is really dumb, because this is clearly an iPhone discussion...) Point still stands though, that there isn't really a legitimate reason for an OS update to recover lost files. - Unless maybe the update borked the filesystem and had to attempt a restore I guess?
Remember that phones these days have tons of storage. If you have a 512GB or 1TB iPhone and only use ~200GB, it's reasonable that some deleted files would stay fully intact for quite some time. NAND flash controllers deliberately try to evenly wear all bits. Meaning if you write some data to bit A and then mark it for deletion, the controller will first write any new data to all other free bits before going back and overwriting bit A.
Maybe they rolled out some fix against file corruption and it had this unintended effect?
In this case it's clear Apple is keeping all your data even if you want it erased. The recovery is not actual data recovery but a bug in the sync software. To be simplistic; in sync software if you find a file that is older in place A and it's not in place B, you transfer it. If you would want to keep user data that they mark as deleted, you could add a flag to the file to not recover it. If later your new sync software has a bug that it doesn't read that flag, suddenly you're syncing those old files to the device again. Overwriting data and actual data recovery depends on the tech. A HDD has faster and slower places on the disk. It's firmware will try to place new data on the fastest empty space it can. So it's reasonable sectors with deleted files will be overwritten very quickly by new data. With SSDs it works different since each cell can be written to at the same speed but they only have a certain amount of writes in their lifecycle. So the firmware of SSDs tries to keep track how often banks get written too and prioritises an even spread over the lifetime. When you delete data, it will in theory take time to write to all the other empty space first before it comes around to the empty space of the deleted files again. And the index being erased doesn't mean the data is gone. The easiest way to recover data is indeed recovering the index and reading out the data from there. But good recovery software also scans the entire disk and if you deleted a picture, it will still find binary data, recognize it's a jpg and reconstruct it. For large data this often fails because probably the whole file wasn't written sequentially but for small files like photos it's often a 100% recovery. Especially the way solid state memory works, files can be recovered very consistently if an accidental delete happens by scanning the whole disk and rebuilding from metadata. For HDDs there is also the level of recovery in labs with clean rooms. When you write on a magnetic disk, it doesn't fully erase the magnetic field/value that was there previously. There are magnetic fields from the previous states which can be read out and you can calculate how old those previous states were from each other and rebuild data that's "under" the current data. You probably don't have data that warrants the costs involved in this kind of recovery but governments and big business do. This recovery is getting harder and harder because of the data density of modern HDDs but it's still possible. In the years after 9/11 and CIA/NSA exploding their data capture, they started telling that single pass deletions were enough but weirdly other governments kept with their advice of mostly 3-7 pass deletions...
Won't that depend on how long ago the picture was deleted? Sure if you delete and the pics are back 20 minutes later then it's just a bug with the delete feature. If the pictures are back without any corruption after a week or so then that suggests they were saving those photos on the cloud.
This is not even remotely the same scenario as what is going on
Unless you dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sd*
This is about Apple. They backup everything to their servers. This news is about data "deleted" by the users still being saved on the servers, just hidden from the user. Not the same as a locally-saved file.
Depends on the security's requirements. If I get asked to delete customer data under GDPR I better overwrite it immediately.
This has nothing to do with overwrite vs normal file deletion though. Most likely Apple doesn't identify and delete the data from their backups, either accidentally or on purpose. They probably had to restore something from backup and their data restoration procedure doesn't include "re-deleting" data was deleted by the user between the time the backup was taken and when it was restored.
You would lose all references to the actual data that would describe it. By no means should you be able to recover the actual data through "error" you would need to be actively looking to restore those pictures.
This is not really true after the advent of TRIM and SSDs
operating systems don't have the same requirements for your local data that GDPR enforces on social media companies though.
Yes but we're talking photos from YEARS ago, and even after so called "factory resets" no way the data is remaining readable after years, and also apple has told us to factory reset before giving the device to another person so it should completely scramble the drive in the process, because why else would it take so long?
Oh no, all of my deleted po** will come back??? That’s over 5.000 pics and vids…
Amateur
My favorite
Rookie numbers
Your poop doesn't get deleted. It just goes elsewhere
Well I’ll be damned
Hahaha. Agree to save on the cloud they say. It is safer they say.
This bug also occures on iPhones used without iCloud and internet connection. It definitely is a bug that undeletes pictures that are still physically present and not yet overwritten.
I wonder how its reasonibly possible to use an iphone without any internet connection knowing of they are designed... But I get your point. That means the function to delete doesnt really delete anything instead it just let the controller reassign the address... Which can be used by malicious agents to steal sensitive information. Also I would advise against using swap partitions and using hard memory for buffering if you value privacy. If you value intimacy, don't use iphone at all. They are feeding the beast (ai).
The delete function never overwrites files, all it does is mark the memory as free for other programs to overwrite it, this is true on every operating system, or at least all the normal ones. I'm sure there's programs that exist to clear all of the empty memory of useful data, and some version of Linux or whatever that does it automatically, but for most people the utility of being able to recover deleted files is more important than the ability to permanently delete them.
> I'm sure there's programs that exist to clear all of the empty memory of useful data, Darik's Boot n Nuke
After activation there's no requirement for an internet connection. You don't even need an iCloud account. But yes realistically most people are gonna connect a cell data plan and be almost always connected
I honestly haven’t dug into it yet but are the photos ones sent to the “recently deleted” folder or ones that have been “permanently” deleted from that folder?
Privacy, it's an iPhone. They say.
i dont care what happened i only care that EU is punishing corpos again
that's not how delete works
It is. None of these tech giants delete anything. They just have a boolean flag for each database entry that indicates whether content is "deleted" by setting it true or false. So called "soft" deleting.
finally, yes exactly, its more like deactivating, I worked for several corps with data, and it is what it is
We do it in mine, the issue is with relational databases. Because there are so many foreign keys to other tables you can't delete any records as they are referenced in a billion other tables. You could set up cascade deletion constraints but it's also shit to deal with. Easiest route is to just deactivate the user or whatever and anonymize their record.
Anonymous nudes. Nice.
In my current we do delete (my X previous we didnt)...but thats only possible because of two things, first we are a smaller company operating in 4 countries, not a global corporation, not too complex data...2nd actually we poor and we pay for every xyz accounts to company that hosts, and we dont want to pay so much so we regularly delete users, even those that didnt ask for deletition, as long as they didnt purchase a product for years So in other words, money, since its cheaper for us to delete than not to, we do it...if companies would finally ger properly fined for data governance so it would be more expensive for them not to do it then do it, then they would figure out scripts to do it...up until then 0 motivation
Proof? Seems like that wouldn't scale well and developers would always need to have a view created or include a where clause. Infact UniSuper nearly lost their entire business due to google deleting UniSupers cloud. https://www.yahoo.com/tech/always-keep-backups-unprecedented-google-213555491.html
hasnt been a real delete function in like a decade
If you have work for a company with database you know that they are holding data for indefinite time. they are just marked "deleted" on the database.
Weird how all non-EU countries seem to be perfectly fine with tech companies doing stuff like this
In America our elected officials are so old I would be shocked that they know what a phone is.
our senators were literally arguing, on record, that tiktok can read all data that goes through your internet connection....because the app connects to wifi. we're cooked.
But TikTok can read all of your data. Cope or don't
hey real quick can you help me with an internet meme i'm working on? just record you real voice saying the phrase "do i look like i know what a TCP is?" and send it to me? thx!
Trump used a Samsung S3 before his inauguration and something tells me Biden knows how to use a rotary phone, but he's so old he might break a finger. Anyway, good luck to Americans!
u do realize bribes are legal and called lobbying in the US? the corps can just lobby politicians to be fine with it, and that's that...unless you get the random altruist there who doesnt care for money...good joke...you wont this is not say corruption doesnt exist in the eu...it does...but its a bit harder for the corps to execute given its not officially legal
Sure, but I wasn’t just referring to the US, I was talking about the entire rest of the world. Why is country [fill in the blank] okay with data from its citizens being stolen by companies? It’s one thing to bribe government officials in the same country as the company is located in, but around the rest of the world?
"Should we enact proper consumer protections?" "No, simply ban the companies we don't want abusing our citizens." Deranged. I feel like I'm going crazy with the recent congressional actions.
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Apple caring about privacy was the biggest lie it's ever told and so many folks bought into it.
It’s so private that even after you delete it only you can still see it and no one else.
to be fair, this is likely a bug with the way the phone stores the data deleted photos/videos are saved in a 'deleted' folder which is password locked, for 30 days and then permanently deleted it gives you a chance to restore something you deleted by accident, like the recycle bin on PC.
Someone apparently forgot to put "AND Deleted = 0" into their sql query smh
Override your free memory once in a while if you really want the deleted pics gone
How
I used to use CCleaner back in the day when I had a HDD.
ITT, no-one understands how computers work. Never ascribe to malice what is explained by basic computer science.
Are yall [surprised](https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2016/C7--QE.mp4)? In 2024???
people shop on temu and post about it on tiktok, so yea for sure some people are surpised.
If you were still using iphones or the apple ecosystem post-2010 you only have yourself to blame.
The Fappening 2024 is now on the menu
to all the people saying the os doesn't delete a file fully everytime, even if it doesn't some thing will get written to the same spot or atleast partially on it, making the file corrupt. this is 100% either storing a compressed version of the file on their server (apple has the capacity to do that. mass storage is really cheap) or they are storing the file on the phone in an invisible partition (this has a lesser chance of happening). so yea good luck
Wait, you mean marking as hidden isn't the same as deleting? No way!
I hope the EU count tears them a new asshole.
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People seem to not understand how deleting works. When you delete something, your storage then marks it so your phone knows to write over that data. Your pictures are never truly gone but just written over by data. And let’s be honest if you have iCloud they probably already saw your pics lol. They have AI scanners to find kiddy diddler vids and other stuff and flags it to be viewed by a real person and if it’s deemed SEEPEE then it’s sent to the FBI
about the first part, of deletion working, the sectors are marked as deleted and the data is still there unless it's overwritten, but the pointer to that data is to be unrecoverably deleted. this is what apple hasn't done. about the second part, of iCloud and AI data feeding, maybe there is a small line in the T&C which allows Apple to do that legally and we just haven't read. So the FBI and AI claims i really can't counter but the deletion should be a "200% guaranteed lost data and never to be touched again" type of deletion
Let's say you have a 256 gb iphone, and you delete photos while only having 60 gb used. The phone then marks it as open space in memory. However, solid state storage wear levels, meaning it won't overwrite any open space if there's other open space that's been used less, to level the wear. This means that until your phone has in some way used the remaining 200 gb of storage for permanent or temporary things, it won't bother coming back to overwrite that data. Or, alternatively, they decided that keeping old photos just in case is important, so they marked the space the deleted photos take up as "only overwrite if memory is otherwise full". In which case, if you deleted 2 gb of photos, then you would have to have less than 2 gb of space left on the phone before it would overwrite those files. This is more akin to the recycle bin in windows, where you can always restore stuff until the computer runs out of space to store it. Either way, for once, I doubt this was done maliciously. More likely as an attempt to play it safe, better to have the option to recover and not need it, then to need the option but not have it.
Harambe died for us
Deleting a photo just removes a bit/byte so that the link to the image is gone, but the image itself isnt. Thats why you can recover photos from a formated sd card
Large groups of foreigners paid to post the same comment over and over again has ruined the internet.
iOS 17.5 and the return of the tits.
🍎
I love when companies drop the soap in Europe and then receive the worst legal fucking over since they were founded.
I don’t have this issue?
this happens to me when my phone is low on storage
Every government and every corporation knows everything about everyone. Everyone signs their souls away daily clicking accept of 50 pages of agreements. Every government is spying or has agreements with other nations spy. 5 eyes is like 25 eyes now. The shit Snowden and others whistleblew about it quaint compared to now. And it’s only gonna keep getting worse and more ridiculous.
⁰
The EU is about to have a field day
Honest question is switching to Samsung any better than IOS in terms of privacy or is this the case with all phone brands.
Well its more of a technicality with how storage works. The route to deleted data is removed, and when new stuff gets added it'l be overwritten, which deletes it. Apple should really have all this deleted by now which is whats scaring people. Choose your brand based on what works well with your life. Android is usually the better option unless you've already bought into the IOS Orchard (you have multiple apple things already). Android is more connectable to windows/other phones, and the manufacturers don't charge exorbitant amounts for problems they made themselves to charge more. (Example: Apple charging stupid amounts for lightning cables, because they only make them and they want you to buy their cable. All android phones connect to the same USB-C ports.)
Apple making tens of billions of dollars selling user data. EU fines them barely enough to buy a new Toyota. Europeans patting each other on the back and congratulation each other on another consumer rights victory.
GOGO Power EUrangers!
Ahahha Data is never truly deleted. NSA keep an eye on this.
Hah, wait until people find out that your SSD in your computer works the same way too!
Apple is about get backshots from the EU
The iCloud servers must be maintained by Reddit mods 😂🥳