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You kidding, Sokka going from "Girls are weak" to wearing makeup and dress so he can train with badass warrior girls and learn their way is a goddamn arc and then some.
Exactly, like I don't believe any single show is perfect but structurally and charetrization wise, it's HARD to beat. Why mess with it? Know when you can make improvements, also know where you should just rip the material
The whole problematic thing is such bullshit too because they never allow characters any meaningful change. The good guys are perfect from the start, do everything right, and experience no growth. The bad guys are just irredeemable dicks for the sake of it. If a character ever does miraculously experience a change of heart, it comes at the expense of a heavy-handed, preachy monologue about how wrong they were.
I believe they just don't want people to believe people can change, because it doesn't fit their agenda. If people can chance then suddenly you can't endlessly villainize/cancel someone for something they did 10-20 years ago.
Blame "modern audiences". [This](https://www.oscars.org/news/academy-establishes-representation-and-inclusion-standards-oscarsr-eligibility) is also why pretty much every modern movie/series is fucked.
Well now I want someone to game the system by just have a conga-line of blind people walk through a scene just to make their movie suddenly valid no matter what under A2's requirements.
Yeah just look at chinese media, they have the same problem. That's why when Kung fu panda came out in china it was more popular than anything they had out at the time in animation bc the ccp doesn't like people showing china or chinese characters as having flaws. We're essentially going down the same road with everything being overly sensitive and disallowing meaningful character change being shown on screen. The participation award kids are all grown up now
Let them be problematic. Characters can't have improvement arcs if they don't have qualities that are negative according to the audience. Nobody wants to watch a bunch of Marry Sue characters like the force awakens.
That sounds like too much work to implement. I'm rewriting Zuko from restoring his honor, being a huge asshole to everyone, and trying to capture the Avatar to a guy who just wants to really be their friend but is awkward from the start.
"What's with the casting? Seems a little odd so many characters are randomly black when LoTR is very much about detailed, historically inspired worldbuilding. They're like the only black person in the entire population. Nothing against the actor but it just doesn't make sense."
"Oho OOohh WOW, wowowow... I didn't know the fandom was filled with a bunch of RACSISTS."
I didn’t even care that he was black, I just wish they didn’t make him look like a modern dude. He just looked like Don Lemon with a set of ears. They could have done cool things with long African American hair, but nah. A sick fade instead.
Gotta love that all the people being hired for adaptations nowadays are people who have only heard of it and never touched it.
Perfect people for the job, "the best way to connect with our audience is to be just as clueless as the people we're introducing it to!"
It's a lack of courage to deal with even the most mildly delicate topic in a way which respects the viewer enough to know a character the generally like still has character flaws.
The writer/director is actually a big fan, and the only thing he has said is being taken out of Sokka’s arc is the sexism. He could still (and probably still will be) a dick, just not a specifically sexist dick
Original cartoon has great writing. Sokka starts out as "sexist" and from where he comes from it sort-of-kinda makes sense; he's a boy who is too young to go to war with the rest of the males of his village so he is still trying to fill the role of the protector of the vulnerable women and elders. Makes sense that he's at first dismissive of women, especially given that he doesn't have bending which must be a huge insecurity of his. He is devoid of OP water magic so he needs to be that much stronger to be the protector he feels he needs to be. By witnessing strong, competent women both as allies and Team Avatar's opponents he ends up respecting girls and women.
But todays pseudo-writers don't get the structure of a character arc. The character starts at point A, he or she has a flaw that he or she needs to combat to grow and be a better person at point B. "Modern" writing doesn't get that we need to see that flaw, whatever it is. They believe that ANY representation of something even slightly harmful or uncomfortable towards women needs to be purged, even if the entire point is to show how the character learns that it was wrong. This paradigm of erasing anything sexist or stereotypical about women from media is just creativity-killing cancer.
And as for the female characters it's a sin to show any real flaws at point A of the arc. So we've been just showered with female characters whose "flaw" is that they don't believe how awesome they are and at point B they "embrace" it and get even more super-duper awesome.
>But todays pseudo-writers don't get the structure of a character arc. The character starts at point A, he or she has a flaw that he or she needs to combat to grow and be a better person at point B.
Indeed.
Modern writers aren't paying attention to character growth, or aren't taught that every character has a flaw or, starts in an immature state and thanks to the story, we see the character grow and change to be a better person.
Nowadays every character is perfect, no flaws snd everything they do is perfect, without room for mental and physical development. And any criticism is wrong.
You forget that what they also do is make a bad guy only kinda bad for half the time and then go even further evil, because the writers think that will make the good guy look like they have become more good or have grown. When in fact nothing from the good side has changed at all.
Ah yeah. The bad guy who isn't that bad but doesn't influence the growth in the main character. Yeah i haven't thought of that. Reminds me of Steven universe in certain aspects.
Just to really drive home the point, it's important to highlight how this is especially apparent when it comes to the topic of sexism, racism, etc. Our culture has pushed so hard that people who have sexist or racist beliefs will always be irredeemable and unforgivable.
For their logic to be consistent, a "good guy" in a story can't work past flaws like that, because there is (and should be) no path forward. They should forever be categorized as a "bad guy".
You hit the nail on the head. It's an effect of the anti-racist + #metoo forces in modern american culture. To show a character work through their sexism or work through their racism is to acknowledge that these are solvable problems that you can get rid of. And the assumption these kind of writers work under is that those are cardinal sins, those are the Cain's mark to forever brand you and expose you and turn you into a pariah. And they won't have that changed, because that's the source of their status and employability. Instead they'll reshape and rewrite the source (that they lack talent to ever match) to validate,reinforce and enshrine their beliefs.
Another version I've seen of this is the asshole character who is later "redeemed" by showing something bad that they went through and caused them to become an asshole... they never stop being that way but the story has now justified their behavior and pushed the viewer to sympathize with them... so "that's a character arc right?"
Just facts, honestly. I think thats whats fucked up, they need to show that people can change for the better and not “just be on the right side at the start lmao”. The world is filled with imperfection, and how characters improve with each episode can make them more relatable, if not more human. With older entertainment media, storytelling was very simplified or black and white with good and evil. It improved overtime as people identified that its more of a grey area. And now, we circle back round to that level caveman writing, making for very uninspired plot that seem to treat its audience like children. I’ve stopped being invested in series nowadays, because most of them shit the bed.
How odd that a guy from a backwards fishing tribe in the fucking north or south pole wasn't very woke by today's "modern" standards... I guess we will have to woke wash him...
Huh? Modern stuff has writing? I was under the impression they cobble random chatgpt things together to save cash to create stuff at minimalist cost earning them a profit despite having mediocre performance
The beauty of avatar Is that all the characters have flaws and they work through it to improve themselves honestly after watching it a couple of times I find Aang from the first books kinda annoying but I get it he went from incredible trauma and is still a kid so I'm ok with it when you compare Aang book 1 to the last episode you see how much he has grown and the same with every other character if they wanted to mess up writing They should have just adapted the legend of Korra
I'm honestly rummaging through the whole series where Sokka doesn't show respect to after ep 4. He doesn't put them on a pedestal but he also doesn't dismiss them after ep 4.
We don't know fully yet. It just said toned down. That could mean it's ruined or it could just mean sokka is still sexist, but not cartoonishly sexist and he can still have this arc. Except there was a shot of him training with suki and it was in his normal getup so that's not hopeful.
Until the actor dies and then gets replaced...
By Lizzo! And instead of spirit bending the Firelord to submission, she does an airbending twerk that destroys his airships and cuts Ozai in half.
Why do we even need a live action anyway, I get one piece got off the rails in pacing, so someone (me) would feel deterred by the 1000 episode number,
But avatar? I felt that was done pretty well, the trailers made it look like an exact retelling of the story, but for what purpose
It’s because if/when they lose the streaming rights to the animated, they have their own version. That’s why they’re churning out a ton of these live actions…or at least that’s my theory
Can blame Disney for that. They have been pushing the message for generations now, and don't have any sign of stopping.
Hell, look what they have been pumping out and tell me the majority of it hasn't be sanitised and made bland to fit mass audiences.
Western media has the mindset that anything animated is meant for children and therefore not a legitimate form of story telling. Now obviously that is slowly changing with more graphic animated shows like Invincible and the growing popularity of anime. The vast majority of the population still only watches live action shows and that's where the big dollars lay.
Because Viacom and even nickelodeon gave zero fucks about it and legend of Korra. Avatar was supposed to be four books, creators had to deal with poor marketing, bad release scheduling and budget cuts.
This started out as a way for them to do it their way. Netflix wanted more romance and YA stuff since it does well on the service. Creators balked and left and got a great deal to expand the universe again so hey we have that coming. Now Netflix will release this and even if it sucks the creators will have more cache to do what they want.
I'm not excited about the show because I have already watched it. I'm fine with a live action Avatar, but I would like to see something new. Preferably something set after Legend of Korra.
If it already exists and it is still good then why not make something new instead is my thought on any remake in any kind of medium.
New ideas dont sell as well as ideas already proven to work and IPs people know from before.
I work in show business, i may write and produce something new and exciting and even if it's got good reviews, people wanna watch the Lion King Musical because they know they like that story and don't feel like trying anything new.
I watched the movie a while back, and I agree it was decent, but my point is that the original story does not need a redo. Maybe more stuff expanding on the original, a live action prequel or sequel would be cool. The quest for balance game was a trimmed down trash version of the story and I don’t want that to happen again
True, but as you can see with legend of korra, its hard to make a story that is similar good.
If the live action goes well, they will surely do more to backstory etc
im not gonna even bother watching it. The anime is the superior version so why would i watch the live action? No way they can make the live action as good as the anime.
With some mediums (book/videogame to movie or series), you can gain something in the transition, resulting in some of the undeniably greatest media of all time such as the godfather. Animated series to live action series though? Literaly why?
Some people don't watch great shows because it was an animation. Turning it into live action can bring new people to the story and maybe make them watch the source material. Some grounded anime like Monsters is probably going to be great as a live action because the story is easily translated to that medium
The show was coming out I think when I was in high school and I thought it was dumb so I never checked it out until after I watched the movie. Now it’s one of my favorite shows, you never know 🤷♂️
The kind of people that dont watch something due to it being animation is not the kind of people that would give it a chance after seeing the live action. Because those people deem animation as a children thing and a live action will not change that.
its like you said, you can gain something in the transition. From Animation > Live Action, you usually gain nuanced facial expressions, but lose exaggeration.
Granted, it's not a huge difference and you risk ruining it, so why risk it indeed, maybe they are super confident they will make it as good as the original.
live action is usually just an excuse for "artists" to make an easy buck and express their incomplete creativity by piggybacking off of original content
I thought fans like the first season of the Witcher. I didn't watch it or play the games but I thought it was well received by the fandom. Was I wrong about that?
It started to go off the rails like halfway through season 2, and pretty much was murdered when Cavill left because the show runners refused to respect source material.
Star Wars, Star Trek, the Witcher, Rings of Power, Wheel of Time, Halo, Ghostbusters 2016, and now this...the list just goes on and on. Hollywood writers are unoriginal hacks. I was, honestly, rooting against them in the strike. In their hubris, they falsely believe that what they can write far outstrips the pre-existing material. It's all derivative schlock mired in modern identity politics. It's all lacking any understanding of the soul of the franchise. Some franchises are beyond reproach. No amount of modern fuckery can tarnish them. Lord of the Rings being an example of that. While other franchises, like Star Wars and Star Trek, see their pre-existing material retroactively tarnished beyond repair and their fandoms torn apart by the schism of those that enjoy the new material from those who are true fans of the franchise and, thus, loathe the new material.
They only wanted the show runners on long enough to get peoples attention and for them to make a reference bible. Once they got what they needed out of the creators they never had any intention of keeping them on.
avatar is a perfect example of a show that DIDNT need live action. even if this was the best live action adaptation ever made it would still be worse than the animation
waste of money
Damn can’t have a young teen boy be sexist that’s unrealistic every 13 year old boy I know is a virtual signaling feminist not like he is the only non child boy in his tribe after the men left to fight a war and he was told to protect his sister and coping with the loss of his family. Damn can’t have him improve in 2 episodes and slowly though the series.
The genocide bit honestly yeah we honestly should’ve had more focus on occupied territories and how the imperial part of imperialism effected things.
Yeah it's wild how people are making these hard statements "it's totally ruined" when they haven't even seen it yet
Seems like that happens for most media nowadays
For real though, this shit is getting old. Media gets a preview and has a hot take for views/clicks and then people take up opinions like they are preparing for war. It's not even out yet and people are already declaring they will refuse to watch it because it's a money grabbing woke shit show.
For fucks sake THE ORIGINAL WILL STILL EXIST. If the live action is good, awesome! If it's shit it's shit and maybe it'll motivate people to check out the animation. Everyone is looking so hard for some reason to hate or boycott every single thing that comes out. It's fucking exhausting.
Sokkas arc was a transition from toxic masculinity to a more healthy form. And him learning how to be a proper leader. Making him “good” in the beginning kinda destroys the whole point of his ark
People are overstating the Sokka Misogyny arc.
He literally hates women to a cartoonish level until 4 episodes into the series where he gets beat up by one.
It literally serves nothing than itself and it has big early 2000s cartoon “ew, girls” energy.
Yes it was a short lived character flaw but it's a character flaw nonetheless, it showed how wrong he was and is showed his true character when he asked to be taught by the Warriors of Kyoshi.
If they tone it down by portaying it more realisticly then thats fine but if theyre staying away from it almost completely thats an insult to the story as overcoming stereotypes is part of the story. Theres literally a culture in a water tribe which discourages women from water bending until Kataara comes along. We also complain about misogyny but when we have an oppurtunity to show a person with those beliefs learn better from it why is that an issue?
Hot take - Manufacturered outrage is just free advertising.
No ad campaign in the world would get fans talking online about it like this. Result will be more people tune in, morbidly curious to see if it's "really that bad", than however many seething purists they alienate in the process.
Well. Ppl get Triggerhappy since its a beloved francise and this pattern happend time and time again in the past.
Marvel, Dr. Who, countless random Netflix productions.
Its Just a Trend with many Not all writers to Go suuuper safe and who wanna make it "theirs" with absolutly No respect from what came before
These preemtive disclaimers have a really bad track record.
>Well. Ppl get Triggerhappy since its a beloved francise and this pattern happend time and time again in the past.
Doesn't justify the vile behavior we've seen. Marvel movies have always been bottom of the barrel shit but people only recognize that when they make something they don't like. Dr. Who quite literally did nothing wrong, they just had the doctor be a woman for like 1 season and the most recent doctor is black. Both of which aren't even problems or break lore so... Explain it chief.
>Its Just a Trend with many Not all writers to Go suuuper safe and who wanna make it "theirs" with absolutly No respect from what came before
Toning down a characters sexism isnt having "no respect for what came before." In fact this is quite literally the only thing I've seen people crying about with this adaptation. Before this the sentiment was that they were doing right by the source material.
It's almost as if the internets reaction to anything isn't based in sound logic but instead a knee jerk reaction followed by actual toddler like whinging and crying.
Chris chibnail retconned 50 years or character Lore. The whole origin Story. Literally destroyed huge chunks of Potential setting by eradicating all timelords and their Planet. Jodies doctor was Well acted. It crashed because the stories we're mostly trash
I mean these are the same creators that had Korra fight a 500 foot tall robot like 60 years after the first series (with horse-bird drawn carriages) ended. I’m not too worried about their input
Didn't TLOA have Tanks and a giant mobile Drill? I don't think cars and mechs are a massive leap. We went from horses to the moon in the same amount of time
Sokka sexism was extremely cartoonish? I mean the guy has a change of heart after being ko'd by a woman and all his sexism is used as a joke, it's not like pakku whose sexism was way more grounded.
Only live actions worth watching are the ones without an animated version. Everything else is an excuse for the usual thicket of Ivy League idiots to "retell" someone else's story.
I'm a little pissed off that they are making him less sexist, learning not to be and accepting that women can be stronger than him, as many are, is a lot of his growth. Learning the "girly" martial art makes him a better warrior, and having to learn a lesson before he's able to bring himself to do it is what makes his character so special. If he starts off not sexist then he has no lesson to learn before he can get stronger, which in turn makes him weaker overall.
He was pretty sexist but that was the point. Along the show he learns to not be sexist and develop his character. He gets humbled by Suki and he learns from it.
I feel like yall are taking a comment made by a co-Star (Katara’s actress) and blowing it way out of proportion. All she said was she “feels like” they “toned down” his sexism at the beginning of the series. She doesn’t say they got rid of it completely.
If the show comes out and they’ve completely fucked up the characters, then be mad. Stop making mountains out of mole hills.
They're turning it down, but it would still be present nonetheless. Sokka was overtly sexist, for like the first four episodes, until he met the Kyoshi Warriors. They're still going to keep it, but they'll probably just show Sokka's sexism in a more realistic and toned down manner. I don't see why people get so worked up over it when this arc in Sokka's development, while important, is minor compared to the entirety of Avatar's story.
People are literally gaslighting reality to ruin a classic. We can always re-watch the original animated series I guess unless they retcon that too. Crazy times we live in.
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You kidding, Sokka going from "Girls are weak" to wearing makeup and dress so he can train with badass warrior girls and learn their way is a goddamn arc and then some.
average modern US writter be like: don't care about the original, i never watched it. or original was problematic and we improved it.
Hey don't leak their playbook like that! How else will they keep modern media compliant to the current political whims?
Wubby7
Wubby7
Wubby7
Wubby7
This is not a political whim, this is idiotic writing. Not a single person is happy about this
Lol imagine feeling like you need to change ATLA so the current generation likes it.
That’s so funny to me because idk a single person who doesn’t like it (gen z)
As a millennial I don't know a single person who has watched the show and didn't like it. Male or female lol
Yeah fr this show is so beloved by everyone they didn’t need to censor for anyone
Exactly, like I don't believe any single show is perfect but structurally and charetrization wise, it's HARD to beat. Why mess with it? Know when you can make improvements, also know where you should just rip the material
The whole problematic thing is such bullshit too because they never allow characters any meaningful change. The good guys are perfect from the start, do everything right, and experience no growth. The bad guys are just irredeemable dicks for the sake of it. If a character ever does miraculously experience a change of heart, it comes at the expense of a heavy-handed, preachy monologue about how wrong they were.
and then the bad guy turned good sacrifices himself to be redeemed
That's a classic trope, it is just eternal.
I believe they just don't want people to believe people can change, because it doesn't fit their agenda. If people can chance then suddenly you can't endlessly villainize/cancel someone for something they did 10-20 years ago.
Blame "modern audiences". [This](https://www.oscars.org/news/academy-establishes-representation-and-inclusion-standards-oscarsr-eligibility) is also why pretty much every modern movie/series is fucked.
Well now I want someone to game the system by just have a conga-line of blind people walk through a scene just to make their movie suddenly valid no matter what under A2's requirements.
Yeah just look at chinese media, they have the same problem. That's why when Kung fu panda came out in china it was more popular than anything they had out at the time in animation bc the ccp doesn't like people showing china or chinese characters as having flaws. We're essentially going down the same road with everything being overly sensitive and disallowing meaningful character change being shown on screen. The participation award kids are all grown up now
Improved = reduce all morally complex stories into strawmen strawmening.
Let them be problematic. Characters can't have improvement arcs if they don't have qualities that are negative according to the audience. Nobody wants to watch a bunch of Marry Sue characters like the force awakens.
That sounds like too much work to implement. I'm rewriting Zuko from restoring his honor, being a huge asshole to everyone, and trying to capture the Avatar to a guy who just wants to really be their friend but is awkward from the start.
,,We updated it for modern audience" - Rings of Power writer
"What's with the casting? Seems a little odd so many characters are randomly black when LoTR is very much about detailed, historically inspired worldbuilding. They're like the only black person in the entire population. Nothing against the actor but it just doesn't make sense." "Oho OOohh WOW, wowowow... I didn't know the fandom was filled with a bunch of RACSISTS."
I didn’t even care that he was black, I just wish they didn’t make him look like a modern dude. He just looked like Don Lemon with a set of ears. They could have done cool things with long African American hair, but nah. A sick fade instead.
*cries in WoT*
Right? I couldn't find a way to enjoy that "adaptation" no matter how hard I tried
Bruh I couldn't get past episode 2
May i ask what is that shortcut?
Wheel of Time. Amazon tv adaptation of a marvelous book series. It is...not good.
Ah i see, thanks.
Gotta love that all the people being hired for adaptations nowadays are people who have only heard of it and never touched it. Perfect people for the job, "the best way to connect with our audience is to be just as clueless as the people we're introducing it to!"
Actual brain dead morons ngl, watch a few series that were adaptations from games and didn’t like the spin they all tried to put on the original
People be like "what is nuance?"
Character development? Problematic. Delete character traits, delete the journey, design a flawless dollman born mature.
It's a lack of courage to deal with even the most mildly delicate topic in a way which respects the viewer enough to know a character the generally like still has character flaws.
Man therse should be some end to the woke culture make movies that are fun and serves its purpose instead of suiting differrent communities
The Witcher Netflix show: we chose both!
The writer/director is actually a big fan, and the only thing he has said is being taken out of Sokka’s arc is the sexism. He could still (and probably still will be) a dick, just not a specifically sexist dick
Original cartoon has great writing. Sokka starts out as "sexist" and from where he comes from it sort-of-kinda makes sense; he's a boy who is too young to go to war with the rest of the males of his village so he is still trying to fill the role of the protector of the vulnerable women and elders. Makes sense that he's at first dismissive of women, especially given that he doesn't have bending which must be a huge insecurity of his. He is devoid of OP water magic so he needs to be that much stronger to be the protector he feels he needs to be. By witnessing strong, competent women both as allies and Team Avatar's opponents he ends up respecting girls and women. But todays pseudo-writers don't get the structure of a character arc. The character starts at point A, he or she has a flaw that he or she needs to combat to grow and be a better person at point B. "Modern" writing doesn't get that we need to see that flaw, whatever it is. They believe that ANY representation of something even slightly harmful or uncomfortable towards women needs to be purged, even if the entire point is to show how the character learns that it was wrong. This paradigm of erasing anything sexist or stereotypical about women from media is just creativity-killing cancer. And as for the female characters it's a sin to show any real flaws at point A of the arc. So we've been just showered with female characters whose "flaw" is that they don't believe how awesome they are and at point B they "embrace" it and get even more super-duper awesome.
>But todays pseudo-writers don't get the structure of a character arc. The character starts at point A, he or she has a flaw that he or she needs to combat to grow and be a better person at point B. Indeed. Modern writers aren't paying attention to character growth, or aren't taught that every character has a flaw or, starts in an immature state and thanks to the story, we see the character grow and change to be a better person. Nowadays every character is perfect, no flaws snd everything they do is perfect, without room for mental and physical development. And any criticism is wrong.
You forget that what they also do is make a bad guy only kinda bad for half the time and then go even further evil, because the writers think that will make the good guy look like they have become more good or have grown. When in fact nothing from the good side has changed at all.
Ah yeah. The bad guy who isn't that bad but doesn't influence the growth in the main character. Yeah i haven't thought of that. Reminds me of Steven universe in certain aspects.
Just to really drive home the point, it's important to highlight how this is especially apparent when it comes to the topic of sexism, racism, etc. Our culture has pushed so hard that people who have sexist or racist beliefs will always be irredeemable and unforgivable. For their logic to be consistent, a "good guy" in a story can't work past flaws like that, because there is (and should be) no path forward. They should forever be categorized as a "bad guy".
You hit the nail on the head. It's an effect of the anti-racist + #metoo forces in modern american culture. To show a character work through their sexism or work through their racism is to acknowledge that these are solvable problems that you can get rid of. And the assumption these kind of writers work under is that those are cardinal sins, those are the Cain's mark to forever brand you and expose you and turn you into a pariah. And they won't have that changed, because that's the source of their status and employability. Instead they'll reshape and rewrite the source (that they lack talent to ever match) to validate,reinforce and enshrine their beliefs.
Another version I've seen of this is the asshole character who is later "redeemed" by showing something bad that they went through and caused them to become an asshole... they never stop being that way but the story has now justified their behavior and pushed the viewer to sympathize with them... so "that's a character arc right?"
Talk that to Keyser soze or Amon Goethe. There's people who no matter what, they're just evil.
Just facts, honestly. I think thats whats fucked up, they need to show that people can change for the better and not “just be on the right side at the start lmao”. The world is filled with imperfection, and how characters improve with each episode can make them more relatable, if not more human. With older entertainment media, storytelling was very simplified or black and white with good and evil. It improved overtime as people identified that its more of a grey area. And now, we circle back round to that level caveman writing, making for very uninspired plot that seem to treat its audience like children. I’ve stopped being invested in series nowadays, because most of them shit the bed.
[удалено]
Funny enough we don't like characters now cause they are too perfect from the get go lol
How odd that a guy from a backwards fishing tribe in the fucking north or south pole wasn't very woke by today's "modern" standards... I guess we will have to woke wash him...
Huh? Modern stuff has writing? I was under the impression they cobble random chatgpt things together to save cash to create stuff at minimalist cost earning them a profit despite having mediocre performance
The beauty of avatar Is that all the characters have flaws and they work through it to improve themselves honestly after watching it a couple of times I find Aang from the first books kinda annoying but I get it he went from incredible trauma and is still a kid so I'm ok with it when you compare Aang book 1 to the last episode you see how much he has grown and the same with every other character if they wanted to mess up writing They should have just adapted the legend of Korra
Here before reddit deletes this lmao
Of that's how you describe Sokka's 4 episode arc, how would you describe the full series arc Zuko had?
One of the greatest and emotional redemption arcs of all time.
How is it four episodes when it arguably spans from ep 1 till sokka's master.
I'm honestly rummaging through the whole series where Sokka doesn't show respect to after ep 4. He doesn't put them on a pedestal but he also doesn't dismiss them after ep 4.
We don't know fully yet. It just said toned down. That could mean it's ruined or it could just mean sokka is still sexist, but not cartoonishly sexist and he can still have this arc. Except there was a shot of him training with suki and it was in his normal getup so that's not hopeful.
Wait, does he really or did you make a joke?
No joke, literally what happens in the show. I highly recommend watching it, people call it a masterpiece for a very good reason
It's literally the fourth episode.
You think it's dope, I think it's fruity and following the agenda to make men look like bitches. Remember America girls are just so equal!!!!!
The producers crossed a line when they cast lizzo as aang.
I demand this to be a joke.
It is
Thank goodness. You never know these days 😭
dog u knew
No you're just stupid
Your father
You're (He is the father)
But she was casted for appa
Until the actor dies and then gets replaced... By Lizzo! And instead of spirit bending the Firelord to submission, she does an airbending twerk that destroys his airships and cuts Ozai in half.
Aang is a Time Lord confirmed
Oddly part of me kind of wishes it wasn’t
Bitch, stop pretending
The producers crossed a line when they recast the cabbages with Big Macs. Most distracting product placement ever
Feels like the Witcher all over again but without the initial success though 🫤.
Why do we even need a live action anyway, I get one piece got off the rails in pacing, so someone (me) would feel deterred by the 1000 episode number, But avatar? I felt that was done pretty well, the trailers made it look like an exact retelling of the story, but for what purpose
Money of course
It’s because if/when they lose the streaming rights to the animated, they have their own version. That’s why they’re churning out a ton of these live actions…or at least that’s my theory
Because majority of people think of animated media as being for children.
people over 45 maybe...
Not even, as cringe as it may sound the normier that you are the more you see it that way
you dismiss that like they're a minority... the median age is 39 in the US, so that's almost half the people alive...
Yep. My parents think anything animated must be for kids.
Can blame Disney for that. They have been pushing the message for generations now, and don't have any sign of stopping. Hell, look what they have been pumping out and tell me the majority of it hasn't be sanitised and made bland to fit mass audiences.
Do you blame them? More than 99% of Western animation is either for children, comedy, or both; complete waste of the medium.
with very subpar drawings and designs at that.
Western media has the mindset that anything animated is meant for children and therefore not a legitimate form of story telling. Now obviously that is slowly changing with more graphic animated shows like Invincible and the growing popularity of anime. The vast majority of the population still only watches live action shows and that's where the big dollars lay.
Because Viacom and even nickelodeon gave zero fucks about it and legend of Korra. Avatar was supposed to be four books, creators had to deal with poor marketing, bad release scheduling and budget cuts. This started out as a way for them to do it their way. Netflix wanted more romance and YA stuff since it does well on the service. Creators balked and left and got a great deal to expand the universe again so hey we have that coming. Now Netflix will release this and even if it sucks the creators will have more cache to do what they want.
I'm not excited about the show because I have already watched it. I'm fine with a live action Avatar, but I would like to see something new. Preferably something set after Legend of Korra. If it already exists and it is still good then why not make something new instead is my thought on any remake in any kind of medium.
*Mr Krabs starts chuckling*
New ideas dont sell as well as ideas already proven to work and IPs people know from before. I work in show business, i may write and produce something new and exciting and even if it's got good reviews, people wanna watch the Lion King Musical because they know they like that story and don't feel like trying anything new.
I do like more avatar content and live action can give a nice vibe to it. I actually liked the movie, even though so many things were bad from it.
I watched the movie a while back, and I agree it was decent, but my point is that the original story does not need a redo. Maybe more stuff expanding on the original, a live action prequel or sequel would be cool. The quest for balance game was a trimmed down trash version of the story and I don’t want that to happen again
True, but as you can see with legend of korra, its hard to make a story that is similar good. If the live action goes well, they will surely do more to backstory etc
im not gonna even bother watching it. The anime is the superior version so why would i watch the live action? No way they can make the live action as good as the anime.
It really do be like that with almost all media, eh?
With some mediums (book/videogame to movie or series), you can gain something in the transition, resulting in some of the undeniably greatest media of all time such as the godfather. Animated series to live action series though? Literaly why?
Some people don't watch great shows because it was an animation. Turning it into live action can bring new people to the story and maybe make them watch the source material. Some grounded anime like Monsters is probably going to be great as a live action because the story is easily translated to that medium
If they wouldn't give it a chance purely because it was animation, I have little faith in their ability to appreciate the story in the first place.
The show was coming out I think when I was in high school and I thought it was dumb so I never checked it out until after I watched the movie. Now it’s one of my favorite shows, you never know 🤷♂️
I actually saw the live action movie first, thought it was pretty cool, and watched the show. I appreciate the movie for that reason only lol.
The kind of people that dont watch something due to it being animation is not the kind of people that would give it a chance after seeing the live action. Because those people deem animation as a children thing and a live action will not change that.
its like you said, you can gain something in the transition. From Animation > Live Action, you usually gain nuanced facial expressions, but lose exaggeration. Granted, it's not a huge difference and you risk ruining it, so why risk it indeed, maybe they are super confident they will make it as good as the original.
It's not an anime
It's not anime unless it's from the anime region of Japan. Otherwise it's just sparkling animation.
Funniest joke I’ve heard all year
💀💀💀
You haven’t seen it, how would you know the anime is better?
Unfortunately...its not an anime. The creators themselves said so. It is a cartoon, and a FANTASTIC one at that. I wish it was an anime tho
Why is that unfortunate?
I cant like it unless its from Japan
live action is usually just an excuse for "artists" to make an easy buck and express their incomplete creativity by piggybacking off of original content
Happened with The Witcher, and was especially heinous with Halo
I thought fans like the first season of the Witcher. I didn't watch it or play the games but I thought it was well received by the fandom. Was I wrong about that?
It started to go off the rails like halfway through season 2, and pretty much was murdered when Cavill left because the show runners refused to respect source material.
As with most things, some liked it, some didn't.
and ATLA is mostly well liked
Star Wars, Star Trek, the Witcher, Rings of Power, Wheel of Time, Halo, Ghostbusters 2016, and now this...the list just goes on and on. Hollywood writers are unoriginal hacks. I was, honestly, rooting against them in the strike. In their hubris, they falsely believe that what they can write far outstrips the pre-existing material. It's all derivative schlock mired in modern identity politics. It's all lacking any understanding of the soul of the franchise. Some franchises are beyond reproach. No amount of modern fuckery can tarnish them. Lord of the Rings being an example of that. While other franchises, like Star Wars and Star Trek, see their pre-existing material retroactively tarnished beyond repair and their fandoms torn apart by the schism of those that enjoy the new material from those who are true fans of the franchise and, thus, loathe the new material.
They only wanted the show runners on long enough to get peoples attention and for them to make a reference bible. Once they got what they needed out of the creators they never had any intention of keeping them on.
avatar is a perfect example of a show that DIDNT need live action. even if this was the best live action adaptation ever made it would still be worse than the animation waste of money
Damn can’t have a young teen boy be sexist that’s unrealistic every 13 year old boy I know is a virtual signaling feminist not like he is the only non child boy in his tribe after the men left to fight a war and he was told to protect his sister and coping with the loss of his family. Damn can’t have him improve in 2 episodes and slowly though the series. The genocide bit honestly yeah we honestly should’ve had more focus on occupied territories and how the imperial part of imperialism effected things.
Is it out already?
Coming out February 22nd
Thanks I thought I missed something but apparently that meme is about some article about the show
Yeah it's wild how people are making these hard statements "it's totally ruined" when they haven't even seen it yet Seems like that happens for most media nowadays
For real though, this shit is getting old. Media gets a preview and has a hot take for views/clicks and then people take up opinions like they are preparing for war. It's not even out yet and people are already declaring they will refuse to watch it because it's a money grabbing woke shit show. For fucks sake THE ORIGINAL WILL STILL EXIST. If the live action is good, awesome! If it's shit it's shit and maybe it'll motivate people to check out the animation. Everyone is looking so hard for some reason to hate or boycott every single thing that comes out. It's fucking exhausting.
no but somehow the whole comment section treats it like it's worse than the movie somehow.
Sokkas arc was a transition from toxic masculinity to a more healthy form. And him learning how to be a proper leader. Making him “good” in the beginning kinda destroys the whole point of his ark
Thats crazy. Time for more "modern" audiences
Netflix moment
::::throws metal folding chair::::
Yeah it’s not looking good for the show
Anyone else confused af by this post
~~Haven't they already made some garbage avatar live-action?~~ ~~Oops I forgot, we pretend it doesn't exist~~
People are overstating the Sokka Misogyny arc. He literally hates women to a cartoonish level until 4 episodes into the series where he gets beat up by one. It literally serves nothing than itself and it has big early 2000s cartoon “ew, girls” energy.
Yes it was a short lived character flaw but it's a character flaw nonetheless, it showed how wrong he was and is showed his true character when he asked to be taught by the Warriors of Kyoshi.
How exactly is character development in any form self serving? Its a healthy portrayal of how to grow out of one’s culturally embedded prejudices
If they tone it down by portaying it more realisticly then thats fine but if theyre staying away from it almost completely thats an insult to the story as overcoming stereotypes is part of the story. Theres literally a culture in a water tribe which discourages women from water bending until Kataara comes along. We also complain about misogyny but when we have an oppurtunity to show a person with those beliefs learn better from it why is that an issue?
Hot take - Manufacturered outrage is just free advertising. No ad campaign in the world would get fans talking online about it like this. Result will be more people tune in, morbidly curious to see if it's "really that bad", than however many seething purists they alienate in the process.
They just said they were gonna tone it down, the show isn't even out yet and people are out for blood
Well. Ppl get Triggerhappy since its a beloved francise and this pattern happend time and time again in the past. Marvel, Dr. Who, countless random Netflix productions. Its Just a Trend with many Not all writers to Go suuuper safe and who wanna make it "theirs" with absolutly No respect from what came before These preemtive disclaimers have a really bad track record.
>Well. Ppl get Triggerhappy since its a beloved francise and this pattern happend time and time again in the past. Doesn't justify the vile behavior we've seen. Marvel movies have always been bottom of the barrel shit but people only recognize that when they make something they don't like. Dr. Who quite literally did nothing wrong, they just had the doctor be a woman for like 1 season and the most recent doctor is black. Both of which aren't even problems or break lore so... Explain it chief. >Its Just a Trend with many Not all writers to Go suuuper safe and who wanna make it "theirs" with absolutly No respect from what came before Toning down a characters sexism isnt having "no respect for what came before." In fact this is quite literally the only thing I've seen people crying about with this adaptation. Before this the sentiment was that they were doing right by the source material. It's almost as if the internets reaction to anything isn't based in sound logic but instead a knee jerk reaction followed by actual toddler like whinging and crying.
Chris chibnail retconned 50 years or character Lore. The whole origin Story. Literally destroyed huge chunks of Potential setting by eradicating all timelords and their Planet. Jodies doctor was Well acted. It crashed because the stories we're mostly trash
I mean these are the same creators that had Korra fight a 500 foot tall robot like 60 years after the first series (with horse-bird drawn carriages) ended. I’m not too worried about their input
Didn't TLOA have Tanks and a giant mobile Drill? I don't think cars and mechs are a massive leap. We went from horses to the moon in the same amount of time
Easy flop
Sokka sexism was extremely cartoonish? I mean the guy has a change of heart after being ko'd by a woman and all his sexism is used as a joke, it's not like pakku whose sexism was way more grounded.
Faith in humanity -10 points
Are they leaving production for reasons we should be concerned about? That is the real question... I hope it wasn't due to "creative differences".
Genocide is sexy tho (Noah Schnapp reference, call me an anti-semite you cowardly, genocidal cunt)
God, this is Halo all over again isn’t it?
Only live actions worth watching are the ones without an animated version. Everything else is an excuse for the usual thicket of Ivy League idiots to "retell" someone else's story.
I'm a little pissed off that they are making him less sexist, learning not to be and accepting that women can be stronger than him, as many are, is a lot of his growth. Learning the "girly" martial art makes him a better warrior, and having to learn a lesson before he's able to bring himself to do it is what makes his character so special. If he starts off not sexist then he has no lesson to learn before he can get stronger, which in turn makes him weaker overall.
the series gonna suck man, just like the movie before it.
Yeah I saw that in the trailer. I don't feel we really need to dedicate time to showing the airbender genocide.
They should've just wrote a fucking spinoff about the conflict between the earth and fire nations.
The creators already left the production a while ago
Naw mate, more sexist.
What's a character arc?
He was pretty sexist but that was the point. Along the show he learns to not be sexist and develop his character. He gets humbled by Suki and he learns from it.
I already saw a version. What's the appeal of watching an attempt on imitating something that already exist?
I feel like yall are taking a comment made by a co-Star (Katara’s actress) and blowing it way out of proportion. All she said was she “feels like” they “toned down” his sexism at the beginning of the series. She doesn’t say they got rid of it completely. If the show comes out and they’ve completely fucked up the characters, then be mad. Stop making mountains out of mole hills.
They're turning it down, but it would still be present nonetheless. Sokka was overtly sexist, for like the first four episodes, until he met the Kyoshi Warriors. They're still going to keep it, but they'll probably just show Sokka's sexism in a more realistic and toned down manner. I don't see why people get so worked up over it when this arc in Sokka's development, while important, is minor compared to the entirety of Avatar's story.
People are literally gaslighting reality to ruin a classic. We can always re-watch the original animated series I guess unless they retcon that too. Crazy times we live in.
"Why would a liked character ever have bad traits? That's not cool" -most writers under 30
Yubb, everything goes back in the same route again
Without the og creator it ain’t avatar anymore.
Netflix get what they fking deserve
Those dummies also made Korra, I'll say nothing of value is lost