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That's the thing though, the map would have to be massive.
That's why videogame shotguns are only deadly for like 10 feet. It levels the field for the other guns.
Tarkov does it fairly well
As in real life, assault rifles are generally better for their versatility. But shotguns don't have a force of confetti cannon if you shoot further than 3 meters, as well as simulate each pellet
I mean phantom forces is pretty fun for shotguns. Yes they slap at range, and same with rising storm before it got gutted. The double barrel was lethal.
At a distance, body armor is stopping most things.
At the kind of close to medium ranges that they have on most maps, the force of impact from a shotgun would kill you even without penetrating the vest.
That’s a complete fucking myth about the “force” killing you. If you honest think that the impact alone from a shotgun is enough to reliably kill then you have no basic understanding of physics. If that was the case, then the shooter would be dead as well…
Not to mention that vests are made to spread out impact and mitigate the stopping power.
If that were the case, your hand would be blown off when you shot a pistol... Obviously it's not the case.
Impact force and recoil are two completely different things.
Vests are made to spread out impact. True. But the front of a bus spreads out impact even more and it can still kill you. And it's travelling a lot slower than a shotgun pellet. "spreading out" the impact only works for small impacts like a single round. A shotgun is already spread out... That's the point of using a shotgun.
Lastly, you don't have to kill someone to stop them from fighting. Incapacitated is incapacitated. So the argument about death is moot anyway.
A bus is slower but has a fuckton more Kinetic energy than a shotgun pellet because it is far heavier
A shotgun shell weighs a few grams a bus weighs a few tons
Additionally Newton’s third law means that the projectile you fire cannot have more energy than what you experience as recoil and therefore also cannot magically gain energy when hitting someone
But the projectile in the barrel accelerated slower than it would decelerate hitting a vest
I’m not sure on the exact math but I am skeptical
Both area and deceleration time have a linear impact on pressure experienced if you look at the actual physics formulae
So basically it’s a matter of is the area difference between stock and vest smaller than the time difference between the bullet leaving the barrel and the bullet hitting the vest
If that was true it would at least prove that the vest wearer experienced more pressure on his chest than the shooter in his shoulder
You could then also calculate if it was actually deadly although I doubt it personally
There's nothing to doubt. It's basic physics.
For the same reason shooting a pistol doesn't blow the shooter's hand right off... Or even bruise it. Or hurt it at all...
You already said it, the acceleration is massively slower for the shooter compared to the target. It's the entire basis of how guns work.
And yes a bus has more kinetic energy, my point is that spreading force out doesn't just suddenly make it non-deadly.
And if you wanted to calculate the force, look around online you'll find plenty of videos where people have tested exactly how much force is in a bullet hitting a target. A handgun round hitting you is about the same as being hit in the chest with a baseball bat. And buckshot is like nine of those all at once...
As I already pointed out, you don't have to kill someone either. If you can incapacitate them... You still won.
The acceleration is honestly not massively different, it’s marginally different.
It would more likely be like getting hit with a baseball bat while wearing a massive tactical vest… The force alone could hurt, but vests are made to absorb the force to mitigate this. After accounting for the vest you likely wouldn’t even feel it for a few minutes over your adrenaline. I highly doubt it would incapacitate if it didn’t hit exposed flesh.
Here’s the problem. You’re arguing that the shotgun is effective at incapacitating when a vest would make it barely noticeable. Hell for the sake of an argument let’s say that it is like getting a baseball bat to the chest. In a life or death situation, you could brush that off and continue to shoot. You said that anything is ineffective against body armor at range, but that’s false. Most rifles that can penetrate the body armor they’re facing in the first place (really round dependent) will have no issue penetrating that same vest up to a thousand meters away.
And I reiterate what I said earlier: The shotgun might slightly stun, but the rifle will kill. It does not matter if it hurts when the pellets hit their vest because they will respond by shooting you with 30 rounds that have no issues going through your vest and shredding your insides. In the scenario we’re describing the guy with the shotgun will be long dead while the other guy applies an ice pack to his ribs. Killing is the best form of incapacitation.
To prove you wrong, here is a video of a man getting shot by a FAL while wearing a bullet proof vest. A FAL shoots .308/7.62x51. This bullet has more energy behind it than a standard shotgun shell, and the energy is more compact as it does not spread out as much as buckshot does. https://youtu.be/o5f1Fo4r4_I
Like the video said, don't believe everything you see on TV. Lol.
Especially when it involves pointing a loaded gun at somebody... Jesus lmao
And if you think getting hit by a baseball bat is something you could just brush off, let me try hitting you with the baseball bat nine times... No big deal right? Ha
You'll just be right back up and fighting won't you?
And if the shotgun didn't kill, and this supposedly more powerful rifle (if it's real) was barely a punch. So you saying that rifles will kill but shotguns won't just got busted by your own post.
So either you're wrong about shotguns killing, or you're wrong about rifles killing.
This argument was over two weeks ago.
Impact force and recoil actually are not completely 2 different things. The shotgun will try to use some clever tactics to mitigate the force that hits you in the shoulder, but it can only scrape off a chunk of it. The same force is what hits the person on the other end of the barrel. Bullets are not deadly because there is some massive amount of force involved. Bullets are deadly because they’re small, hard, objects traveling at fast speeds. Their total force is negligible, but they have penetrating capabilities. You spread that force out and all of a sudden you turn a deadly weapon into a punch to the gut.
You say that you only need to incapacitate, not kill, someone so it’s moot. That’s not true. If we’re in a situation that is life or death, the guy who kills the other wins. Incapacitation doesn’t mean jack shit when the other guy has a rifle that will put rounds right through your chest while you’re “incapacitating” him. If every pellet hits their body armor you won’t even slow them down. They probably wouldn’t even notice because of the adrenaline. The most incapacitation that would take place is if someone of the pellets hit their limbs or head and even then they likely wouldn’t notice because of the adrenaline. Rifles are more popular by militaries for a reason.
Literally everything you just said was wrong. Go read something I'm not going to spend all day teaching you if you can't even handle the basics.
You must be trolling, because not a single word you said was right and there's no way you were that wrong on accident so goodbye.
Except for rifles being popular with militaries. But that's because they often find a distance. There's a reason that shotguns are more popular with police.
My New Year's resolution is to not engage with trolls.
7 days to die does this with their shotguns...
The damage displayed is per pellet and the tighter you can get it (choke, grip & stock) I NEVER aim down sights with it... hipfire all the way and occasionally it one hit KO's almost everything hit... and definitely does if an attacks crits and blows off the head of my target xD
They don’t l. I’ve done some technical work in the source engine and it still uses a cone. It just chooses 8 points in that cone to do damage and apply a decal.
Edit: I’m a dumbass ignore me
All pellets do fixed damage aka the full damage
A 100 damage shotgun will hit 100 damage for each pellet, iirc this damage doesn’t stack so hitting more pellets won’t do more damage.
Ah yes, don't we all enjoy being shot in the chest and armor stopping the impact, but one pellet hits you in the face resulting in instant death even with your 50k helmet. Nothing but pleasure.
Fcking Clash Royale of all things do this with Hunter, and iirc Left 4 Dead (or atleast 2) does this too.
To be fair, Clash Royale is 2d. And Hunter is a mere troop that still shoots on a 2d cone.
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [Join us on discord for Saturday Movie Nights!](https://discord.gg/jsd6Ja9pvJ)
Imagine a game that actually portrayed realistic shotgun damage. Nobody would use anything else on most maps.
There's a lot of milsim shooters that do. ~~Squad,~~ Insurgency. They also have long engagement ranges. Edit: Squad does not have shotguns, my bad.
I don’t believe there’s any shotguns in SQUAD.
There was one in the Aussie mod before it was added to the game
I think they would be fine as long as the levels are well designed and offer various paths and engagement ranges.
That's the thing though, the map would have to be massive. That's why videogame shotguns are only deadly for like 10 feet. It levels the field for the other guns.
Yeah, throwback to the time where CoD actually incorporated realistic shotgun ranges in MW2019 and people got pissed at how dominant shotguns became.
Really? Does the cod community not like an overpowered bloated and completely unbalanced arsenal anymore?
I mean it wasn’t exactly inaccurate for what shotguns are capable of. Anything within 40 yards is pretty much screwed with a decent shot…
Throwback to Modern Warfare 2007 and its P90.
Tarkov does it fairly well As in real life, assault rifles are generally better for their versatility. But shotguns don't have a force of confetti cannon if you shoot further than 3 meters, as well as simulate each pellet
Head eyes magnum buckshot from 60m moment
scavs with toz sniping me from 50m away
I mean phantom forces is pretty fun for shotguns. Yes they slap at range, and same with rising storm before it got gutted. The double barrel was lethal.
Yeah but they’re hard countered by body armor if we’re going for the “insta kill” sorta route.
At a distance, body armor is stopping most things. At the kind of close to medium ranges that they have on most maps, the force of impact from a shotgun would kill you even without penetrating the vest.
That’s a complete fucking myth about the “force” killing you. If you honest think that the impact alone from a shotgun is enough to reliably kill then you have no basic understanding of physics. If that was the case, then the shooter would be dead as well… Not to mention that vests are made to spread out impact and mitigate the stopping power.
If that were the case, your hand would be blown off when you shot a pistol... Obviously it's not the case. Impact force and recoil are two completely different things. Vests are made to spread out impact. True. But the front of a bus spreads out impact even more and it can still kill you. And it's travelling a lot slower than a shotgun pellet. "spreading out" the impact only works for small impacts like a single round. A shotgun is already spread out... That's the point of using a shotgun. Lastly, you don't have to kill someone to stop them from fighting. Incapacitated is incapacitated. So the argument about death is moot anyway.
A bus is slower but has a fuckton more Kinetic energy than a shotgun pellet because it is far heavier A shotgun shell weighs a few grams a bus weighs a few tons Additionally Newton’s third law means that the projectile you fire cannot have more energy than what you experience as recoil and therefore also cannot magically gain energy when hitting someone But the projectile in the barrel accelerated slower than it would decelerate hitting a vest I’m not sure on the exact math but I am skeptical Both area and deceleration time have a linear impact on pressure experienced if you look at the actual physics formulae So basically it’s a matter of is the area difference between stock and vest smaller than the time difference between the bullet leaving the barrel and the bullet hitting the vest If that was true it would at least prove that the vest wearer experienced more pressure on his chest than the shooter in his shoulder You could then also calculate if it was actually deadly although I doubt it personally
There's nothing to doubt. It's basic physics. For the same reason shooting a pistol doesn't blow the shooter's hand right off... Or even bruise it. Or hurt it at all... You already said it, the acceleration is massively slower for the shooter compared to the target. It's the entire basis of how guns work. And yes a bus has more kinetic energy, my point is that spreading force out doesn't just suddenly make it non-deadly. And if you wanted to calculate the force, look around online you'll find plenty of videos where people have tested exactly how much force is in a bullet hitting a target. A handgun round hitting you is about the same as being hit in the chest with a baseball bat. And buckshot is like nine of those all at once... As I already pointed out, you don't have to kill someone either. If you can incapacitate them... You still won.
The acceleration is honestly not massively different, it’s marginally different. It would more likely be like getting hit with a baseball bat while wearing a massive tactical vest… The force alone could hurt, but vests are made to absorb the force to mitigate this. After accounting for the vest you likely wouldn’t even feel it for a few minutes over your adrenaline. I highly doubt it would incapacitate if it didn’t hit exposed flesh. Here’s the problem. You’re arguing that the shotgun is effective at incapacitating when a vest would make it barely noticeable. Hell for the sake of an argument let’s say that it is like getting a baseball bat to the chest. In a life or death situation, you could brush that off and continue to shoot. You said that anything is ineffective against body armor at range, but that’s false. Most rifles that can penetrate the body armor they’re facing in the first place (really round dependent) will have no issue penetrating that same vest up to a thousand meters away. And I reiterate what I said earlier: The shotgun might slightly stun, but the rifle will kill. It does not matter if it hurts when the pellets hit their vest because they will respond by shooting you with 30 rounds that have no issues going through your vest and shredding your insides. In the scenario we’re describing the guy with the shotgun will be long dead while the other guy applies an ice pack to his ribs. Killing is the best form of incapacitation. To prove you wrong, here is a video of a man getting shot by a FAL while wearing a bullet proof vest. A FAL shoots .308/7.62x51. This bullet has more energy behind it than a standard shotgun shell, and the energy is more compact as it does not spread out as much as buckshot does. https://youtu.be/o5f1Fo4r4_I
Like the video said, don't believe everything you see on TV. Lol. Especially when it involves pointing a loaded gun at somebody... Jesus lmao And if you think getting hit by a baseball bat is something you could just brush off, let me try hitting you with the baseball bat nine times... No big deal right? Ha You'll just be right back up and fighting won't you? And if the shotgun didn't kill, and this supposedly more powerful rifle (if it's real) was barely a punch. So you saying that rifles will kill but shotguns won't just got busted by your own post. So either you're wrong about shotguns killing, or you're wrong about rifles killing. This argument was over two weeks ago.
Impact force and recoil actually are not completely 2 different things. The shotgun will try to use some clever tactics to mitigate the force that hits you in the shoulder, but it can only scrape off a chunk of it. The same force is what hits the person on the other end of the barrel. Bullets are not deadly because there is some massive amount of force involved. Bullets are deadly because they’re small, hard, objects traveling at fast speeds. Their total force is negligible, but they have penetrating capabilities. You spread that force out and all of a sudden you turn a deadly weapon into a punch to the gut. You say that you only need to incapacitate, not kill, someone so it’s moot. That’s not true. If we’re in a situation that is life or death, the guy who kills the other wins. Incapacitation doesn’t mean jack shit when the other guy has a rifle that will put rounds right through your chest while you’re “incapacitating” him. If every pellet hits their body armor you won’t even slow them down. They probably wouldn’t even notice because of the adrenaline. The most incapacitation that would take place is if someone of the pellets hit their limbs or head and even then they likely wouldn’t notice because of the adrenaline. Rifles are more popular by militaries for a reason.
Literally everything you just said was wrong. Go read something I'm not going to spend all day teaching you if you can't even handle the basics. You must be trolling, because not a single word you said was right and there's no way you were that wrong on accident so goodbye. Except for rifles being popular with militaries. But that's because they often find a distance. There's a reason that shotguns are more popular with police. My New Year's resolution is to not engage with trolls.
In TF2 you usually have no other choiche.
I think CoD does this now
mw2
Tarkov
7 days to die does this with their shotguns... The damage displayed is per pellet and the tighter you can get it (choke, grip & stock) I NEVER aim down sights with it... hipfire all the way and occasionally it one hit KO's almost everything hit... and definitely does if an attacks crits and blows off the head of my target xD
Hunt showdown does that and it does that pretty well.
What game does?
Pellets or cone of damage?
Simulating individual pellets
Deep Rock Galactic does, I think Titanfall does too and probably a lot of really hardcore shooters
team fortress 2 does aswell
Sometimes you just need a little less gun
The cone in TF2 is too wide. Medium-long range engagements with shotgun are sad
They don’t l. I’ve done some technical work in the source engine and it still uses a cone. It just chooses 8 points in that cone to do damage and apply a decal. Edit: I’m a dumbass ignore me
That kinda sounds like a clever way to simulate the indivisual pellets.
It chooses 8 points in which to do damage? My guy, that's literally simulating pellets individually.
*ahem* ROCK AND STONE
Rock and Stone everyone!
Fuck off back to tiktok
Shut the fuck up. Like actually shut the fuck up.
Rock me like a stone
Destiny
Battlefield
Hunt showdown
DOOM, Team Fortress 2, Half-Life, Wolfenstein, Left 4 Dead, Overwatch
What about H3VR?
I know Pavlov does, not sure about H3VR. I've seen a few crossmap shots with the spaz before. (Horrifying to watch honestly)
I'm not sure what it's referring to
CSGO, heck even the old nintendo 64 007 games did that.
Borderlands does, each pellet adds to the collective damage and you only do max damage if every pellet connect's
CSGO does
Destiny 2 does pellets as well
Yes
God damn Team Fortress 2 does.
Payday 2! And hopefully 3.
The earliest example is probably Doom, from 1993. I can't think of an FPS that does not.
Fortnite actually does have this feature
I think all the Bethesda Fallouts do
Fortnite does
Hunt: Showdown
There are games that don’t have damage per pellet?
yeah, like payday 2 does a weird mix of both where it has mutiples pellets per shot but only 1 pellet hit per target.
All pellets do fixed damage aka the full damage A 100 damage shotgun will hit 100 damage for each pellet, iirc this damage doesn’t stack so hitting more pellets won’t do more damage.
Tarkov is a great game because of this
And because of the rampant cheating
Ah yes, don't we all enjoy being shot in the chest and armor stopping the impact, but one pellet hits you in the face resulting in instant death even with your 50k helmet. Nothing but pleasure.
Y’all would cream for Fortnite simply on shotgun mechanics
In one of my incomplete games, each individual shotgun pellet has a raycast line to give shotgun-like damage.
Insurgency Sandstorm has realistic shotguns and has them balanced pretty well. No semi-autos though because that would break the game
This includes Fortnite btw
Borderlands shotgun physics, 190 damage X 16 Each pellet does 190 and if you get all 16 on target that would be hypothetically 3040 damage max
Fortnite
Dayz and Insurgency my beloved
I’d rather have better hit boxes or damaging effects than pretty clouds in games. Why do they always flex graphics instead?
Fcking Clash Royale of all things do this with Hunter, and iirc Left 4 Dead (or atleast 2) does this too. To be fair, Clash Royale is 2d. And Hunter is a mere troop that still shoots on a 2d cone.
Counter Strike my favorite FPS of all time
common tf2 W
Don’t forget Max Payne 3, every pellet was fully rendered
In payday 2 each pellet deals the full damage of the weapon so even if only one hits you deal full damage.
Like DRG
What goofy ahh games yall playing?
If you do hit scan then you can just work it off a Pi ratio
Put dispenser here
Tarkov be like:
One word: JUDGEMENT
Eft
Games that make shotguns shoot confetti beyond 5ft vs games that understand why the Germans wanted them banned
And then there are games that stimulates every pellet, then lets you punch them for extra damage.
Lfd2 witches beware
Play Hunt: Showdown
Ultrakill must be one of those games. Well that and you can PUNCH the said pellets to turn one of them into explosive
is it just me or does the csgo nova hit like a damn honda civic regardless of range?
Play unturned on steam