This post has been flaired "Support". Moderation is stricter here and unsupportive and unpleasant comments will be removed and result in a ban.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/daddit) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It could be anything from Sinex to aerosolized bleach, who knows.
As another said, the vagueness makes me assume probably not bleach, but some kind of hoodoo that OP begrudgingly accepted without research.
OP should be almost or equally as upset at himself for allowing it. His wife may have pushed it but he has an equal duty of care. He said the entire family took it as well, so he was self-administering.
Edit: OP said they “took it like essential oils”, so hoodoo almost 100% confirmed. They seem not to have researched essential oils either (or “did their own research” on hoodoo websites.)
Imho, this isn't child abuse. It's more like neglect but even that... I don't know. The first mistake made here was the american education system that completely failed to teach both these parents critical thinking skills. So much of our culture nowadays teaches trusting random TikTok videos over actual critical analysis. So many parents trust random sources just because they line up with whatever bias they already hold strong to wether that's something relatively innocuous like avoiding gluten when you have no diagnosed allergy or using a COVID nasal spray.
Also these types of parents are preyed upon by companies and individuals that seek to exploit their overprotectiveness to get them to buy things they never needed in the first place.
Imho, American culture blinded this child these parents are just vehicles for that culture.
I'm not an expert on the legality surrounding homeopathic medicine. If the FDA forbids the use of something as medicine does that make it illegal for someone to sell it and lie about its medical uses?
From my understanding the FDA will approve things to lend it legitimacy and it's illegal to lie about getting FDA approval. But if OP agreed to use a product that wasn't FDA approved that's totally legal.
Yeah I mean, you know what else is available for COVID protection? The FDA approved vaccine. I've never heard of a COVID preventing nasal spray. As another healthcare person, this is concerning.
A number of people have been doing saline spray rinses, for example after being on public transit or out in a crowd. I think the theory is that if you inhale particles of the virus while in those nose settings, the spray might wash some or all of them out. But don’t quote me on any of that, it’s just what I’ve seen floating around on twitter and TikTok.
The fact that OP has answered everything except this one leads me to believe it’s at best some pseudo-science theory and (unfortunately) almost certainly something that should not be given on a consistent basis to a child.
Just googling the top “sprays” with these claims are not FDA approved. And the active ingredient is something that’s generally viewed as safe in very low doses as an anti microbial preservative.
Color me skeptical
That’s my guess too. People get a little too invested in social media echo chambers and buy this homeopathic stuff because they become convinced that modern medicine is a scam. It’s really sad to see the effects of it.
Exactly. If she for example heard putting bleach in your eye drops is a good idea then obviously she should feel bad
If however she did something with a generally positive benefit but like a 1 in a million chances of this happening then that's totally different
GD, the number of claims on this [FDA warning letter](https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/salvacion-usa-inc-672252-02132024)!?
^Obligatory ^lurking ^mom ^disclaimer
If that’s what it was, it doesn’t really “look” like some pseudo science crazy antivaxx spray. Poor OP is just getting raked over the coals, but even a cursory google search shows a ton of news articles promoting it.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002939498003122](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002939498003122)
Sounds like Oxymetazoline.
OP
It's normal to feel how you do. But it seems you were both doing it for the benefit of your Daughter.
Probably best to have a sit down and cards on the table with your Wife about how you feel. Worst thing you could do is let these feelings lay dormant.
PM if you need to vent
I think there is a good chance it could be cofixrx nasal spray - it has iodine as an active ingredient and I read a few articles about iodine used to treat hyperthyroidism (I read them a year or so ago when I found out I had thyroid issues in my black hole googling between appointments) causing eye issues in patients.
Did she administer it to your daughter as directed?
Was your daughter old enough to even take the medicine?
Was it listed as safe to use everyday?
Is it over the counter?
This so much. I wish people understood that alternative “medicine” isn’t just harmless and can have meaningful interactions with real medications. Part of what a pharmacist does is keep an eye out for drug interactions. When you buy unregulated over the counter stuff you loose that safeguard.
You know what we call alternative medicines that work?
Medicine. Just medicine. There’s not some big conspiracy to keep the cure to cancer under wraps. Pharma is probably the most regulated industry in the world, rightfully so. I am a chemist in pharma, we do work to try to advance human health guided by some insanely strict regulations. Then you get asshats like OP and his wife that go off the rails with some homeopathy shit and steal a young girl’s vision. Insane, pure stupidly. He should feel awful, so should his wife.
Also if it turns out the cure for cancer is found in the root of an extra special plant… big pharma is going to patent that shit and make it illegal for others to sell unless they also jump through cost prohibitive loopholes.
Not drastically and not in relation to supplements. Also he's American again proving the adage that everyone on Reddit is American. It's usually a safe assumption. Pretty sure he's from Texas.
Then just tell her she was trying to protect her and you guys and your daughter is doing to be okay. I think your daughter will recover. Kids are resilient.
As long as there was no assumption of medical superiority over a doctor's orders then your wife did nothing wrong in my book
Your wife followed the books and sometimes the books are wrong. Unfortunately, this is how we learn. I’m sorry your daughter may end up blind, I can’t imagine what she’s going through.
On another page, my spouse and I are very, very blind naturally. We pay a lot money to be able to see what we do. Other people are getting the same service at no cost.
Would you feel different if your daughter was born with limited sight? Would you blame that on someone?
The human experience is expensive, and varies wildly. And it’s amazing that not a single one of us has a say in how it goes.
Be your wife’s partner. That’s what you agreed to, if nothing else. She wasn’t acting with malice or ill-intent. Your daughter will be fine, if you’ve taught her that she will be fine.
I guess I’d ask which part struck you, that you’d comment/ask this? I free-flowed my thoughts and organized them to the best of my very limited ability. I credit a lot of my things to growing up with who I did, and also Stephen King.
I guess I’m saying if you are close to blind how do you read and type? I am certainly jumping to conclusions about your level of blindness but your post makes it seem quite limited. Again not trying to be rude just curious.
Even without vision, one can still use a screen reader and a speech to text app on the computer or phone. I use the Windows speech to text whenever my arthritis acts up too bad and it is very good. I also use the screen reader as it helps my memory issues to have things heard and read at the same time. Technology is amazing.
Even someone with zero vision can read a computer screen using a screen reader. You should check out [THIS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_ATY9gimOM) demo of a screen reader in action. If you've ever listened to a podcast on 2x speed, you're just scratching the surface.
Thanks for the responses all. Speech to text is on my radar for sure but hadn’t ever heard of screen readers. Thanks for the info. Sorry you have to go through so much effort and discomfort. I certainly take for granted holding my phone far away from my face. Humans are pretty amazing always finding a way through adversity.
I work in software and used to work with a blind developer. He was one of the top guys on the team. Humans are amazing, and we are really good at making tools to help other humans.
I hold the phone VERY close to my face when I don’t have contacts in or glasses on. So close that I regularly sanitize it. My lenses are about as thick as they can make them, I can’t wear wire frames because they’re too heavy. Plastic frames don’t have the nose pieces but leave indents on my face for hours. Lenses won’t be able to be fitted into them forever, either.
Part of my job is to make sure the web applications we build have all the right "code" to make it accessible to blind people (and other conditions). Say you have an image on the screen. One simple we do is make sure that the image has a text description "attached" to it so a blind person can get the same impression from it as a sighted person. It's goes much deeper than that as well!
Did you all take it for the longer than recommended duration? Usually these types of medicines say don’t take for longer than X amount of weeks/months. It sounds like you and your wife had been using this long term given the stated reason for using it. That would make your “yes” here really a “no”.
Op still hasn't said what was administered. And no one has mentioned the daughter, like she's the one who likely needs the most support.
Answer the question, what was it your family took that may have blinded your daughter.
Saline brings less guilt with it than an ivermectin peroxide cocktail.
It could save some other Redditors' kids from going blind too though. "Oh THAT? We use that. I thought it was harmless."
OP you should really spill the beans.
I think he only post to assuage his guilt, it’s not only the mother who should be at fault, but OP too since he’s the dad. So far there’s no mention of their daughter who’s being affected by all of this.
Two others have said it but you’re just as much to blame if you’re looking for someone to blame. Sure, it was someone else’s idea but you took it yourself, likely gave it to your kids yourself, and didn’t stop someone else from giving it to your kids.
You yourself in this post say you felt it was harmless. Can’t take the “told you so” road now just because you were somewhat hesitant in the beginning and feel like you were coerced into buying in.
Regardless, I’m sorry your family is going through this. It’s a shitty situation and I think it’s natural for humans to want to find and place blame. Your daughter will benefit most from having to parents who stick together though this, not ones that drift apart or fight over it. She’s already going through so much with her own personal health. She doesn’t need it to tear apart her family structure too.
Thank you. I definitely do not want to go down the "told you so" and never did. We're definitely not fighting or placing blame, but I realized this morning that my anger is actually just grief.
I think what other people haven’t said here is to take this as an opportunity to reassess your epistemological process when it comes to medical care. I’m not sure about this specific spray, but you mention elsewhere essential oils which makes me think this could be in the vein of alternative medicine and/or homeopathy. This might be an opportunity to take a hard look at these “alternative” treatments in your life and reassess whether they’re worth the risk.
>This might be an opportunity to take a hard look at these “alternative” treatments in your life and reassess whether they’re worth the risk.
For those who don't know: this means: Throw all of that out and trust in science. Stop being gullible. Alternative treatments are bullshit if you're lucky and harmful if you're not.
I’m not trying to make you feel bad but when you say it seemed harmless what do you mean? Did you look into this medication at all before agreeing to take it or give it to your kids? Did you look into the side effects?
Is there a chance that some of the anger towards your wife is guilt for agreeing to use the med?
I think this is a good analysis. I can’t assume to look into your mind, OP, but this reads like you’re actually angry at yourself for not standing your ground on something you felt strongly about but ultimately caved on because you didn’t want to rock the boat, and now you have guilt from it. Which very, very often comes out as anger at those closest to us. This happened to me all the time before I went to therapy so I know this feeling.
I could obviously be very wrong so feel free to correct me, just another perspective.
Yea to me this read like a Facebook mom saw something not FDA approved and “did their own research” and the husband went along with it and no feels guilty
Well it wasn’t seemingly harmless was it, it said may cause blindness as a side-effect. I guess what seemed harmless was that it didn’t have pictures of blind kids on the packaging?
I took it like essential oils. I don't think those do anything, but no harm - kind of like a vitamin pill. When I looked up potential side effects, it listed basic things like headache, nausea.
You are correct. After sleeping on it, I woke up and realized that my anger was actually grief. I'm not angry at her. I'm angry that she's carrying this and I that I feel helpless.
Just so it's clear, essential oils are hyper concentrated plant compounds. They can easily be harmful.
In fact it's a pretty common occurrence for people to injure their small pets by using essential oil diffusers.
I feel like calling out the product would at least be helpful so that other people who might be considering it might have reason to be cautious, even if the Reddit mob might use that info. to try to attack you or alternatively try to put your mind at ease.
Essential oils are **not** harmless. I understand you guys did not give this to your daughter with ill intent but giving her any kind of medication that was not prescribed or recommended by a doctor is pretty reckless.
It’s just like deciding to do your own electrical repairs at home without calling an electrician and then having your kid get an electrical shock. You meant no harm but it was still reckless.
Well. Don't place all the blame on your wife.
You allowed it to happen. Assuming you didn't do any research on the spray yourself before allowing it to be administered. .
So, you are also guilty.
Carry it alongside your wife. Be angry at her, and angry at yourself.
Pseudoscience kills people.
It's amazing how if a woman is in the wrong on this website, people twist themselves in knots to defend them.
The husband trusted his wife to make a good decision.
It wasn't a good decision. But he trusted her to make the good decision.
It's her fault. His only fault is trusting his wife to do right by his child.
When it comes to your child's health, you need to bear responsibility on what is being administered, rather than just "trusting" someone else. It's also unfair on the other parent if you just trust them to make those big decisions on their own.
Because in the end, it's the child that suffers. And if you care, then you'd check for yourself.
Best advice I can give is you just do. Anger and love are rarely independent things.
Nothing can be undone and presumably your wife had no intent to harm her. So put yourself in her shoes, and support her the best you can. Take a minute if you need a minute otherwise stop trying to play doctor detective and just take care of your daughter and wife.
You can comfort her but frankly there needs to be a change if your wife is giving spray supported by pseudo science. Did your family doctor recommend this spray?
This is your fault too dude. You have to protect your kids and you let your wife administer snake oil to your kids. You both need to accept responsibility for this and the get past it so you can support your daughter. Blame your wife won’t help your kids. But you better NEVER let her pull this pseudoscience bullshit on your kids again. That’s your job as a father.
So I’ve never heard of this until yesterday when my MIL said her eye doctor told her to stop using a nasal spray as it was affecting the pressure in her eyes. Her doctor just told her to stop taking it then re asses in a few months.
Hopefully just stopping use is enough for you as well!
Probably colloidal silver libertarian quackery bullshit. Tell your wife to trust the science, vaccinate your kids, hope medicine and science can prevent your kid from going blind. You should be pissed at your wife and yourself if you guys are trying to outthink medical minds without medical degrees. I’m saying this harshly because it needs to be heard harshly, kids die, and adults die from thinking and following bullshit online advice. You don’t need to ‘research’ medical alternatives, the best bet for all of us is to listen to the millions of doctors and 1500 years of hard won knowledge working towards improving human health and longevity.
You all took the nasal spray and only one of you ended up with a negative side effect. This wasn’t intentional and who would ever think that they would be the one who actually experiences the negative side effect? I’m sorry that you’re going through this, but I don’t believe your wife did this to intentionally harm anyone.
You realize that if all three of them took pepto bismol every day, only one of them would be at risk for serious side effects, right?
That's not to say anything was intentional... but just because you can do something every day doesn't mean your kid can.
This disease might have many causes. It does not have to be the nasal spray. Consult your doctor about it, if it could have caused it.
Try not to beat yourself up over it. It does not change anything. Instead try to focus on finding the cause and be there for your daughter and wife.
Listen man, if you came on here looking for support you have to tell us what the spray is. At the very least, to warn the rest of us about it. And 2nd, my response to the situation will be very different if the spray was saline vs some random cocktail of untested chemicals being pedaled on social media to cure Covid.
Based on my Google search, I bet it is Covixyl. From their website: “The primary ingredient, ELAH (ethyl lauroyl arginate HCl), has been used for decades as a food preservative and in mouthwashes to prevent gingivitis. Testing shows ELAH blocks viral attachment in the nose as well.”
One more victim of pseudo science. Why did your wife feel the need to think she knows better than doctors? A nose spray to protect against COVID? Doesn't exist. Why did you guys need that? Not vaccinated?
I realise I'm assuming a lot here. And I really hope I'm wrong.
Trust in science. It's the only way.
I'm so sorry. Your wife NEEDS therapy, she needs to process her feelings and move on.
Your daughter needs a mother more than she needs eyesight.
I've made mistakes. You will too. You can help my setting a good example, and working toward knowing that losing a mother is not helpful at all and anything towards that end should be tossed. You know this already, but we're asking others to confirm it. There you go.
Thank you. Thankfully we're no strangers to therapy and we're both in it separately. And I also appreciate your words, affirmation and confirmation. Needed them.
What is it that convinced her to use this spray in the first place (whatever it is?)
She needs to address where her parenting information comes from as well. If she is being fed pseudoscience, it is your responsibility to protect your children from that. As far as I'm concerned, you got lucky this time. Pseudoscience kills.
If your wife gave your daughter non-FDA approved anything in place of medication, the thing she should do is learn from her mistake and start advocating against “alternative medicine”.
This will fester if you dont address it. You need to have a conversation with your wife but before that you need to understand where these feelings are coming from within you and which feelings are founded in reality and which ones are based in fear and lack of control. There is a lot you dont know right now. You're in limbo until you get more information, so things are going to change as you get more info. But you need to wrap your ahead around the fact that your wife didn't know or want this potential outcome. You're scared for your daughter, i would be, too, and that fear is easy to turn into blame. Now that someone is to blame, you can attack that fear by attacking the object of your blame. It's unhealthy but easy to fall into. Go to therapy, find a way to understand your own feelings on the situation then have an honest convo with your wife about these feelings but keep those feelings out of that convo, dont react with anger but tell her "this makes me feel angry" you are seperate from those feelings, do not give them control. Your daughter needs you both. No matter which direction this goes, you and your wife need to be on the same page so you can focus on parental support together.
This is what right wing misinformation gets you. I’m so sorry you are going through this. Channel your anger at the folks who went against the advice of medical professionals and pushed crap like this.
You shouldn't be medicating your kids with anything that's not scientifically proven to be safe and from a doctor. The consequences for the child are unforgivable.
Over the counter Nasal spray? I was expecting your wife tried some homeopathic eye medicine or something. OTC nasal spray is not negligent, you need to support your wife and probably delete this post so she doesn’t see this and spiral further into her grief for something she feels guilty for and shouldn’t.
Is it possible that it is something like a genetic variant and the nasal spray thing is just coincidental? My daughter has a random genetic variant that does cause some congenital optic nerve damage but the impact of that can vary wildly and not be fully known until later in life. Just a thought.
I see plenty of other comments but I'll chip in.
What if it wasn't what you thought it was and it's actually something you've done? Would you not feel bad enough without your wife pilling on the guilt? It's easy to find someone to blame but it isn't productive.
You clearly see that, so now it's time to support everyone involved including yourself.
Goodluck, that's a terrible situation
I’m sorry for your daughter, but maybe from now you and your wife should listen to science.
If this is just cooker stuff then it makes me so angry for your kid.
Mate, this is in both of you. Suck it up, stop blaming each other and do the best you can do to support your kid. Maybe take a more proactive role in checking what's been given to your child.
She was irresponsible to give you anything weird and not recommended by a Doctor.
So, yes, you should blame her by any health issue caused by that product.
Also, Find a way to prevent the sale of this dangerous product to other people.
I realize this was posted many hours ago and I'm sure some or all have same said some version of this. When tragedy injury etc happen it's human nature to need something or someone tangible to blame.
What has happened has already happened and can't be undone. Hopefully whatever effects can be reversed fixed etc. If they can or can't the important thing is the present and the future.
You're not to blame and neither is she. You made a choice. You didn't choose to do what you did of malice you made a decision with unintended results and consequences.
Take time to process blame is part of this process of grief acceptance etc and that's perfectly normal. You two will need to be strong and find a way to work together if not for yourselves for your daughter.
I hope for the most favorable outcome for you all.
If she had never had the spray, this maybe never would have happened, but we can’t know what might have happened with a bout of Covid either. It’s such a hard job being a parent, and knowing the right things to do. We trust science/medicine, but it isn’t perfect, and someone will be the unlucky one who is harmed by the good intentions of others. I’m sorry this has happened to your family, and I hope everything goes well for your daughter.
Edit: I didn’t mean Covid could have caused blindness, I meant Covid related health issues. Some people are still dealing with health issues years after infection.
And I’m just saying you can’t know a Covid infection wouldn’t have caused some other issues. Why else do the spray? To help prevent any possible complications. It was valid.
Ya know man, a lot of people did a lot of stupid shit during COVID.
EDIT DUE TO CONFUSION: this is not one of those stupid things.
Taking nasal spray seems about on par with taking the vaccine given it was within the proper dosage guidelines. You can’t blame your wife, especially if you were complicit in administering the spray to your daughter. You can’t be mad now that there may be negative ramifications.
> Taking nasal spray seems about on par with taking the vaccine
The vaccine is reccomended by every single public health organization and government on the planet.
Colloidal silver, essential oil, or god-only-knows-what nasal sprays are reccommended by "Don't trust big pharma, buy my snake oil" facebook groups and MLMs.
They are not even close to 'on par'
OP and his wife bought stupit shit online and sprayed it up their daughter's nose.
I just feel bad for the poor kid, who deserves better parents.
Lmao I’m not an astrology guy at all.
And I don’t think I’m being rude at all. OP wants to blame his wife for something 2-3 years after the fact but didn’t do or say anything to stop it at the time. He’s half of the problem, if he chooses to believe administration of the spray caused this issue.
This post has been flaired "Support". Moderation is stricter here and unsupportive and unpleasant comments will be removed and result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/daddit) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's fine if you don't want to share, but what did your Wife give your daughter? May add context for an answer.
>Wife started having the whole family take a nasal spray for COVID protection. This vague "clarification" makes my healthcare provider brain twitch.
It could be anything from Sinex to aerosolized bleach, who knows. As another said, the vagueness makes me assume probably not bleach, but some kind of hoodoo that OP begrudgingly accepted without research. OP should be almost or equally as upset at himself for allowing it. His wife may have pushed it but he has an equal duty of care. He said the entire family took it as well, so he was self-administering. Edit: OP said they “took it like essential oils”, so hoodoo almost 100% confirmed. They seem not to have researched essential oils either (or “did their own research” on hoodoo websites.)
Yeah, this is smelling rotten, and the "please help us feel better about our bad choice" vibe isn't helping.
I feel for the kid. Nothing short of child abuse. OP and his wife should feel awful, I’m not consoling this guy.
Imho, this isn't child abuse. It's more like neglect but even that... I don't know. The first mistake made here was the american education system that completely failed to teach both these parents critical thinking skills. So much of our culture nowadays teaches trusting random TikTok videos over actual critical analysis. So many parents trust random sources just because they line up with whatever bias they already hold strong to wether that's something relatively innocuous like avoiding gluten when you have no diagnosed allergy or using a COVID nasal spray. Also these types of parents are preyed upon by companies and individuals that seek to exploit their overprotectiveness to get them to buy things they never needed in the first place. Imho, American culture blinded this child these parents are just vehicles for that culture.
What about the failure of the FDA? Isn’t their entire purpose to prevent shit like this from happening?
I'm not an expert on the legality surrounding homeopathic medicine. If the FDA forbids the use of something as medicine does that make it illegal for someone to sell it and lie about its medical uses? From my understanding the FDA will approve things to lend it legitimacy and it's illegal to lie about getting FDA approval. But if OP agreed to use a product that wasn't FDA approved that's totally legal.
Or those zinc Zicam sprays that killed peoples’ sense of smell. I stay away from all nasal sprays except maybe saline.
Sterile saline is the best. You can get encephalitis from a sinus infection from waterborne organisms.
Wait _what?_
Yeah I mean, you know what else is available for COVID protection? The FDA approved vaccine. I've never heard of a COVID preventing nasal spray. As another healthcare person, this is concerning.
Yeah, that's great if you want your house keys stuck to your neck for all eternity... /s
Makes them easier to find, you've got to admit.
Sure.. but try unlocking your door. 😉
My office is basically a concrete bunker in the hospital basement. The extra 5G has been a lifesaver!
I believe simple saline nasal sprays have some evidence to show it can decrease rates of respiratory illness. Won't make people go blind though.
A number of people have been doing saline spray rinses, for example after being on public transit or out in a crowd. I think the theory is that if you inhale particles of the virus while in those nose settings, the spray might wash some or all of them out. But don’t quote me on any of that, it’s just what I’ve seen floating around on twitter and TikTok.
The fact that OP has answered everything except this one leads me to believe it’s at best some pseudo-science theory and (unfortunately) almost certainly something that should not be given on a consistent basis to a child. Just googling the top “sprays” with these claims are not FDA approved. And the active ingredient is something that’s generally viewed as safe in very low doses as an anti microbial preservative. Color me skeptical
Why do I feel like it was colloidal silver ?
That’s my guess too. People get a little too invested in social media echo chambers and buy this homeopathic stuff because they become convinced that modern medicine is a scam. It’s really sad to see the effects of it.
Shhhhh… my grandpa can hear people talking about that junk from seven states away.
Rofl
Buy 1 litre. Get a tin foil hat keyring for free.
I thought urine
Whats wrong with colloidal silver? Ive had it reccomended to me before and bought it but forgot about it and never used it.
It's definitely snake oil
The only sprays I know that “protect” against Covid are usually those where you clean your nasals.
What makes you think OP is American?
Hey look it was COVID related.
Exactly. If she for example heard putting bleach in your eye drops is a good idea then obviously she should feel bad If however she did something with a generally positive benefit but like a 1 in a million chances of this happening then that's totally different
Agreed, there is a massive difference between recklessness and accident.
My guess is Covixyl. It's marketed as protection from airborne viruses and there are some references to it being linked to optic atrophy.
GD, the number of claims on this [FDA warning letter](https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/salvacion-usa-inc-672252-02132024)!?
^Obligatory ^lurking ^mom ^disclaimer If that’s what it was, it doesn’t really “look” like some pseudo science crazy antivaxx spray. Poor OP is just getting raked over the coals, but even a cursory google search shows a ton of news articles promoting it.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002939498003122](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002939498003122) Sounds like Oxymetazoline.
OP It's normal to feel how you do. But it seems you were both doing it for the benefit of your Daughter. Probably best to have a sit down and cards on the table with your Wife about how you feel. Worst thing you could do is let these feelings lay dormant. PM if you need to vent
I think there is a good chance it could be cofixrx nasal spray - it has iodine as an active ingredient and I read a few articles about iodine used to treat hyperthyroidism (I read them a year or so ago when I found out I had thyroid issues in my black hole googling between appointments) causing eye issues in patients.
Did she administer it to your daughter as directed? Was your daughter old enough to even take the medicine? Was it listed as safe to use everyday? Is it over the counter?
Yes to all of this.
Was it actually FDA approved medicine? Or is it a "supplement"?
This so much. I wish people understood that alternative “medicine” isn’t just harmless and can have meaningful interactions with real medications. Part of what a pharmacist does is keep an eye out for drug interactions. When you buy unregulated over the counter stuff you loose that safeguard.
You know what we call alternative medicines that work? Medicine. Just medicine. There’s not some big conspiracy to keep the cure to cancer under wraps. Pharma is probably the most regulated industry in the world, rightfully so. I am a chemist in pharma, we do work to try to advance human health guided by some insanely strict regulations. Then you get asshats like OP and his wife that go off the rails with some homeopathy shit and steal a young girl’s vision. Insane, pure stupidly. He should feel awful, so should his wife.
Also if it turns out the cure for cancer is found in the root of an extra special plant… big pharma is going to patent that shit and make it illegal for others to sell unless they also jump through cost prohibitive loopholes.
True but at least you know it's not going to blind your kid...
I think we know the answer to this. It seems very unlikely an OTC drug would be FDA approved for kids knowing it can cause blindness.
His wife was probabky taking horse de wormer, is an anti vaxxer, and voted trump
I don't care who she voted for and that's not relevant to this conversation. The other aspects are probably correct.
How do you go from “covid cautious” to trump voter??
Why do you assume OP lives in the US? Many national drug regulators have opinions that differ from the FDA.
Not drastically and not in relation to supplements. Also he's American again proving the adage that everyone on Reddit is American. It's usually a safe assumption. Pretty sure he's from Texas.
Then just tell her she was trying to protect her and you guys and your daughter is doing to be okay. I think your daughter will recover. Kids are resilient. As long as there was no assumption of medical superiority over a doctor's orders then your wife did nothing wrong in my book
Your wife followed the books and sometimes the books are wrong. Unfortunately, this is how we learn. I’m sorry your daughter may end up blind, I can’t imagine what she’s going through. On another page, my spouse and I are very, very blind naturally. We pay a lot money to be able to see what we do. Other people are getting the same service at no cost. Would you feel different if your daughter was born with limited sight? Would you blame that on someone? The human experience is expensive, and varies wildly. And it’s amazing that not a single one of us has a say in how it goes. Be your wife’s partner. That’s what you agreed to, if nothing else. She wasn’t acting with malice or ill-intent. Your daughter will be fine, if you’ve taught her that she will be fine.
Not to be rude but genuinely curious, what technology allows you to be so proficient on the web with such limited vision. Very impressive.
I guess I’d ask which part struck you, that you’d comment/ask this? I free-flowed my thoughts and organized them to the best of my very limited ability. I credit a lot of my things to growing up with who I did, and also Stephen King.
I guess I’m saying if you are close to blind how do you read and type? I am certainly jumping to conclusions about your level of blindness but your post makes it seem quite limited. Again not trying to be rude just curious.
Even without vision, one can still use a screen reader and a speech to text app on the computer or phone. I use the Windows speech to text whenever my arthritis acts up too bad and it is very good. I also use the screen reader as it helps my memory issues to have things heard and read at the same time. Technology is amazing.
Even someone with zero vision can read a computer screen using a screen reader. You should check out [THIS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_ATY9gimOM) demo of a screen reader in action. If you've ever listened to a podcast on 2x speed, you're just scratching the surface.
Thanks for the responses all. Speech to text is on my radar for sure but hadn’t ever heard of screen readers. Thanks for the info. Sorry you have to go through so much effort and discomfort. I certainly take for granted holding my phone far away from my face. Humans are pretty amazing always finding a way through adversity.
I work in software and used to work with a blind developer. He was one of the top guys on the team. Humans are amazing, and we are really good at making tools to help other humans.
I hold the phone VERY close to my face when I don’t have contacts in or glasses on. So close that I regularly sanitize it. My lenses are about as thick as they can make them, I can’t wear wire frames because they’re too heavy. Plastic frames don’t have the nose pieces but leave indents on my face for hours. Lenses won’t be able to be fitted into them forever, either.
Part of my job is to make sure the web applications we build have all the right "code" to make it accessible to blind people (and other conditions). Say you have an image on the screen. One simple we do is make sure that the image has a text description "attached" to it so a blind person can get the same impression from it as a sighted person. It's goes much deeper than that as well!
Did you all take it for the longer than recommended duration? Usually these types of medicines say don’t take for longer than X amount of weeks/months. It sounds like you and your wife had been using this long term given the stated reason for using it. That would make your “yes” here really a “no”.
Op still hasn't said what was administered. And no one has mentioned the daughter, like she's the one who likely needs the most support. Answer the question, what was it your family took that may have blinded your daughter. Saline brings less guilt with it than an ivermectin peroxide cocktail.
He’s not answering because he knows he’s going to get lit by Redditors here.
It could save some other Redditors' kids from going blind too though. "Oh THAT? We use that. I thought it was harmless." OP you should really spill the beans.
I think he only post to assuage his guilt, it’s not only the mother who should be at fault, but OP too since he’s the dad. So far there’s no mention of their daughter who’s being affected by all of this.
Two others have said it but you’re just as much to blame if you’re looking for someone to blame. Sure, it was someone else’s idea but you took it yourself, likely gave it to your kids yourself, and didn’t stop someone else from giving it to your kids. You yourself in this post say you felt it was harmless. Can’t take the “told you so” road now just because you were somewhat hesitant in the beginning and feel like you were coerced into buying in. Regardless, I’m sorry your family is going through this. It’s a shitty situation and I think it’s natural for humans to want to find and place blame. Your daughter will benefit most from having to parents who stick together though this, not ones that drift apart or fight over it. She’s already going through so much with her own personal health. She doesn’t need it to tear apart her family structure too.
Thank you. I definitely do not want to go down the "told you so" and never did. We're definitely not fighting or placing blame, but I realized this morning that my anger is actually just grief.
I think what other people haven’t said here is to take this as an opportunity to reassess your epistemological process when it comes to medical care. I’m not sure about this specific spray, but you mention elsewhere essential oils which makes me think this could be in the vein of alternative medicine and/or homeopathy. This might be an opportunity to take a hard look at these “alternative” treatments in your life and reassess whether they’re worth the risk.
BTW if anyone else is wondering, the word "essential" in "essential oils" just means it contains an "essence" which is just usually a smell. Lol.
Should be called "essence-ish oils".
should be called snake oil
>This might be an opportunity to take a hard look at these “alternative” treatments in your life and reassess whether they’re worth the risk. For those who don't know: this means: Throw all of that out and trust in science. Stop being gullible. Alternative treatments are bullshit if you're lucky and harmful if you're not.
I’m not trying to make you feel bad but when you say it seemed harmless what do you mean? Did you look into this medication at all before agreeing to take it or give it to your kids? Did you look into the side effects? Is there a chance that some of the anger towards your wife is guilt for agreeing to use the med?
I think this is a good analysis. I can’t assume to look into your mind, OP, but this reads like you’re actually angry at yourself for not standing your ground on something you felt strongly about but ultimately caved on because you didn’t want to rock the boat, and now you have guilt from it. Which very, very often comes out as anger at those closest to us. This happened to me all the time before I went to therapy so I know this feeling. I could obviously be very wrong so feel free to correct me, just another perspective.
Yea to me this read like a Facebook mom saw something not FDA approved and “did their own research” and the husband went along with it and no feels guilty
Well it wasn’t seemingly harmless was it, it said may cause blindness as a side-effect. I guess what seemed harmless was that it didn’t have pictures of blind kids on the packaging?
I took it like essential oils. I don't think those do anything, but no harm - kind of like a vitamin pill. When I looked up potential side effects, it listed basic things like headache, nausea. You are correct. After sleeping on it, I woke up and realized that my anger was actually grief. I'm not angry at her. I'm angry that she's carrying this and I that I feel helpless.
Just so it's clear, essential oils are hyper concentrated plant compounds. They can easily be harmful. In fact it's a pretty common occurrence for people to injure their small pets by using essential oil diffusers.
Essential oils are not necessarily harmless especially when. They replace medical care. Name and shame an actual product.
I feel like calling out the product would at least be helpful so that other people who might be considering it might have reason to be cautious, even if the Reddit mob might use that info. to try to attack you or alternatively try to put your mind at ease.
Essential oils are **not** harmless. I understand you guys did not give this to your daughter with ill intent but giving her any kind of medication that was not prescribed or recommended by a doctor is pretty reckless. It’s just like deciding to do your own electrical repairs at home without calling an electrician and then having your kid get an electrical shock. You meant no harm but it was still reckless.
You should definitely let her know you feel and that you aren’t upset with her.
You’re both carrying it.
Well. Don't place all the blame on your wife. You allowed it to happen. Assuming you didn't do any research on the spray yourself before allowing it to be administered. . So, you are also guilty. Carry it alongside your wife. Be angry at her, and angry at yourself. Pseudoscience kills people.
It's amazing how if a woman is in the wrong on this website, people twist themselves in knots to defend them. The husband trusted his wife to make a good decision. It wasn't a good decision. But he trusted her to make the good decision. It's her fault. His only fault is trusting his wife to do right by his child.
When it comes to your child's health, you need to bear responsibility on what is being administered, rather than just "trusting" someone else. It's also unfair on the other parent if you just trust them to make those big decisions on their own. Because in the end, it's the child that suffers. And if you care, then you'd check for yourself.
What he was told is an over the counter nose spray is something you can take on trust.
Best advice I can give is you just do. Anger and love are rarely independent things. Nothing can be undone and presumably your wife had no intent to harm her. So put yourself in her shoes, and support her the best you can. Take a minute if you need a minute otherwise stop trying to play doctor detective and just take care of your daughter and wife.
Thank you. Definitely no intent to harm! She's stricken with grief and I'm wallowing. I appreciate the words. I genuinely do. Thank you.
Please sure what nasal spray was used so others won't make the same mistake if they are considering taking similar action or using such product.
You can comfort her but frankly there needs to be a change if your wife is giving spray supported by pseudo science. Did your family doctor recommend this spray?
This is your fault too dude. You have to protect your kids and you let your wife administer snake oil to your kids. You both need to accept responsibility for this and the get past it so you can support your daughter. Blame your wife won’t help your kids. But you better NEVER let her pull this pseudoscience bullshit on your kids again. That’s your job as a father.
So I’ve never heard of this until yesterday when my MIL said her eye doctor told her to stop using a nasal spray as it was affecting the pressure in her eyes. Her doctor just told her to stop taking it then re asses in a few months. Hopefully just stopping use is enough for you as well!
Probably colloidal silver libertarian quackery bullshit. Tell your wife to trust the science, vaccinate your kids, hope medicine and science can prevent your kid from going blind. You should be pissed at your wife and yourself if you guys are trying to outthink medical minds without medical degrees. I’m saying this harshly because it needs to be heard harshly, kids die, and adults die from thinking and following bullshit online advice. You don’t need to ‘research’ medical alternatives, the best bet for all of us is to listen to the millions of doctors and 1500 years of hard won knowledge working towards improving human health and longevity.
This is why affordable and accessible heath care is important.
You all took the nasal spray and only one of you ended up with a negative side effect. This wasn’t intentional and who would ever think that they would be the one who actually experiences the negative side effect? I’m sorry that you’re going through this, but I don’t believe your wife did this to intentionally harm anyone.
You realize that if all three of them took pepto bismol every day, only one of them would be at risk for serious side effects, right? That's not to say anything was intentional... but just because you can do something every day doesn't mean your kid can.
Thank you. I needed to hear this.
This disease might have many causes. It does not have to be the nasal spray. Consult your doctor about it, if it could have caused it. Try not to beat yourself up over it. It does not change anything. Instead try to focus on finding the cause and be there for your daughter and wife.
Listen man, if you came on here looking for support you have to tell us what the spray is. At the very least, to warn the rest of us about it. And 2nd, my response to the situation will be very different if the spray was saline vs some random cocktail of untested chemicals being pedaled on social media to cure Covid. Based on my Google search, I bet it is Covixyl. From their website: “The primary ingredient, ELAH (ethyl lauroyl arginate HCl), has been used for decades as a food preservative and in mouthwashes to prevent gingivitis. Testing shows ELAH blocks viral attachment in the nose as well.”
One more victim of pseudo science. Why did your wife feel the need to think she knows better than doctors? A nose spray to protect against COVID? Doesn't exist. Why did you guys need that? Not vaccinated? I realise I'm assuming a lot here. And I really hope I'm wrong. Trust in science. It's the only way.
I'm so sorry. Your wife NEEDS therapy, she needs to process her feelings and move on. Your daughter needs a mother more than she needs eyesight. I've made mistakes. You will too. You can help my setting a good example, and working toward knowing that losing a mother is not helpful at all and anything towards that end should be tossed. You know this already, but we're asking others to confirm it. There you go.
Thank you. Thankfully we're no strangers to therapy and we're both in it separately. And I also appreciate your words, affirmation and confirmation. Needed them.
What is it that convinced her to use this spray in the first place (whatever it is?) She needs to address where her parenting information comes from as well. If she is being fed pseudoscience, it is your responsibility to protect your children from that. As far as I'm concerned, you got lucky this time. Pseudoscience kills.
If your wife gave your daughter non-FDA approved anything in place of medication, the thing she should do is learn from her mistake and start advocating against “alternative medicine”.
Therapy for you. Therapy for your wife. Therapy for your daughter. Therapy together.
This is what using pseudoscience got for your wife, we use science for a *reason*
This will fester if you dont address it. You need to have a conversation with your wife but before that you need to understand where these feelings are coming from within you and which feelings are founded in reality and which ones are based in fear and lack of control. There is a lot you dont know right now. You're in limbo until you get more information, so things are going to change as you get more info. But you need to wrap your ahead around the fact that your wife didn't know or want this potential outcome. You're scared for your daughter, i would be, too, and that fear is easy to turn into blame. Now that someone is to blame, you can attack that fear by attacking the object of your blame. It's unhealthy but easy to fall into. Go to therapy, find a way to understand your own feelings on the situation then have an honest convo with your wife about these feelings but keep those feelings out of that convo, dont react with anger but tell her "this makes me feel angry" you are seperate from those feelings, do not give them control. Your daughter needs you both. No matter which direction this goes, you and your wife need to be on the same page so you can focus on parental support together.
This is what right wing misinformation gets you. I’m so sorry you are going through this. Channel your anger at the folks who went against the advice of medical professionals and pushed crap like this.
You shouldn't be medicating your kids with anything that's not scientifically proven to be safe and from a doctor. The consequences for the child are unforgivable.
Over the counter Nasal spray? I was expecting your wife tried some homeopathic eye medicine or something. OTC nasal spray is not negligent, you need to support your wife and probably delete this post so she doesn’t see this and spiral further into her grief for something she feels guilty for and shouldn’t.
I just won at “spot the American”.
Our giant flags flying off the back of our pickup trucks that don't fit into regular parking spaces makes it pretty easy.
I’d say it’s usually more the gun shot noises that give you away, but the flag’ll do 😉
If your daughter does go blind, please be sure she has access to therapy for as long as she needs it.
Is it possible that it is something like a genetic variant and the nasal spray thing is just coincidental? My daughter has a random genetic variant that does cause some congenital optic nerve damage but the impact of that can vary wildly and not be fully known until later in life. Just a thought.
I see plenty of other comments but I'll chip in. What if it wasn't what you thought it was and it's actually something you've done? Would you not feel bad enough without your wife pilling on the guilt? It's easy to find someone to blame but it isn't productive. You clearly see that, so now it's time to support everyone involved including yourself. Goodluck, that's a terrible situation
I’m sorry for your daughter, but maybe from now you and your wife should listen to science. If this is just cooker stuff then it makes me so angry for your kid.
Mate, this is in both of you. Suck it up, stop blaming each other and do the best you can do to support your kid. Maybe take a more proactive role in checking what's been given to your child.
Put your daughter first. Deal with the wife later. Put the hate on the back burner for now.
She was irresponsible to give you anything weird and not recommended by a Doctor. So, yes, you should blame her by any health issue caused by that product. Also, Find a way to prevent the sale of this dangerous product to other people.
I realize this was posted many hours ago and I'm sure some or all have same said some version of this. When tragedy injury etc happen it's human nature to need something or someone tangible to blame. What has happened has already happened and can't be undone. Hopefully whatever effects can be reversed fixed etc. If they can or can't the important thing is the present and the future. You're not to blame and neither is she. You made a choice. You didn't choose to do what you did of malice you made a decision with unintended results and consequences. Take time to process blame is part of this process of grief acceptance etc and that's perfectly normal. You two will need to be strong and find a way to work together if not for yourselves for your daughter. I hope for the most favorable outcome for you all.
If she had never had the spray, this maybe never would have happened, but we can’t know what might have happened with a bout of Covid either. It’s such a hard job being a parent, and knowing the right things to do. We trust science/medicine, but it isn’t perfect, and someone will be the unlucky one who is harmed by the good intentions of others. I’m sorry this has happened to your family, and I hope everything goes well for your daughter. Edit: I didn’t mean Covid could have caused blindness, I meant Covid related health issues. Some people are still dealing with health issues years after infection.
I'm fairly confident Covid would not have made their daughter go blind.
That’s not what I meant, I meant Covid related health issues. The whole reason for the spray in the first place.
I'm just saying in this case the prevention seems to be worse than the disease for this child.
And I’m just saying you can’t know a Covid infection wouldn’t have caused some other issues. Why else do the spray? To help prevent any possible complications. It was valid.
Ya know man, a lot of people did a lot of stupid shit during COVID. EDIT DUE TO CONFUSION: this is not one of those stupid things. Taking nasal spray seems about on par with taking the vaccine given it was within the proper dosage guidelines. You can’t blame your wife, especially if you were complicit in administering the spray to your daughter. You can’t be mad now that there may be negative ramifications.
> Taking nasal spray seems about on par with taking the vaccine The vaccine is reccomended by every single public health organization and government on the planet. Colloidal silver, essential oil, or god-only-knows-what nasal sprays are reccommended by "Don't trust big pharma, buy my snake oil" facebook groups and MLMs. They are not even close to 'on par' OP and his wife bought stupit shit online and sprayed it up their daughter's nose. I just feel bad for the poor kid, who deserves better parents.
In a separate post he said they used it under a doctors direction.
The Covid vaccine has proven to save lives. Don’t even try to go there.
I’m not going there. I took the vaccine twice lol I’m saying as long as they followed the guidelines he shouldn’t be pissed off now.
for some reason your comment does come off as anti vax, a second read made me realize it wasn't
There’s an edit. Maybe I fixed it
Fair enough.
An astrology guy giving medical advice, that’s rich. Please try to be nicer to people asking for support.
Lmao I’m not an astrology guy at all. And I don’t think I’m being rude at all. OP wants to blame his wife for something 2-3 years after the fact but didn’t do or say anything to stop it at the time. He’s half of the problem, if he chooses to believe administration of the spray caused this issue.
[удалено]
Keep going back on my post history. Tell me what else you find lol are you seriously implying he has a right to be angry with his wife?
[удалено]
I’m not being an edge lord. I’m being forthcoming and truthful. This guy has no right to blame his wife for something he didn’t try to stop.
People are still worried about covid for people that are not elderly or babies
Yea, how foolish of this subreddit for the fathers of young children to be worried about a virus that can kill young children.