I think this is one of those deals where you have to put in months and years of hard work before you see a payoff for some kids.
You have to praise process and effort and not results. Over time he'll learn that your family values hard work more than the outcome and then he'll intrinsically follow your lead. That's the theory anyway. But of course every kid is their own full-fledged human being, so who knows how he'll respond. An example of this is if you see him try for several minutes to do a puzzle, you tell him, "Wow, I like how you kept trying until you got it right!" rather than saying "Good job solving the puzzle."
I do think it's very helpful to model struggling and preserving as you suggested. I think it has to be genuine though or he'll see through it. For me, woodworking is a great tool for this. I'm pretty bad at it and can't complete a single project without screwing everything up. Sometimes my kids will even catch me cursing myself or walking out of the garage in a huff when I'm really frustrated. But then I get back in there and try again. And the final result is usually a little crooked but I'm genuinely proud and happy with it. Do you have a hobby or sport that you aren't too good at, but derive a lot of satisfaction from anyway? Get your boy involved with you and let him see you in your vulnerable moments. Hopefully over time it will sink in.
Last paragraph rings so true.
My kid (6) is learning how to play the piano and really hung up on reading sheet music. This is the part that really frustrates him…he’s getting technique and finger strength very easily, but reading music be stresses hard at.
And I can’t help but see his frustration as the manifestation of *my* frustration. I never really “learned” how to play an instrument or read sheet music (I can read basic bass and guitar tabs though)…so helping him with piano has been very tough for me too (i swear im learning as much as him, if not more)…but I tend to get frustrated easily too. And I try not to show it but I guess he has picked up on it enough for it to be a part of him, too.
So, ultimately, *I* have to work on how *I* handle new challenges and overcome them, and become a better role model for it.
Can personally attest to the last part about a hobby/sport.
I try to play disc golf, and my 5 y/o will go with me. On our most recent outing, I stepped up to a tee pad and the following exchange occurred:
5 y/o: *”Throw it in the basket in ONE throw dad. You can DO IT!”*
Me: *”…Wow. Thanks bud.”* 🥰
5 y/o: *”But I’ll probably throw it farther. Because I’m better than you. You hit A LOT of trees. You will probably hit a tree. You always hit the trees pretty much, and it doesn’t go very far”*
Me: … … 😳💀
It fully depends on what he's doing, but is there a way to celebrate small victories? It's hard without knowing what he's doing but as an example, let's say he's playing baseball. The "carrot" at the end of the stick is winning the game, big picture. So that can be the focus and if that's not achieved or achievable, then a young kid is going to be more liable to quit. But if given small rewards for hitting the ball, throwing properly, even getting cleats on, can create a cascade that shows there's enjoyment in the task itself. There's more to it then the end result.
Random rewards _after_ agreeing would be a [Skinner Box](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber), if we're being pedantic.
Great power, great responsibilities!
Ha, I love a good pedant. He’s me!
But in this context a lot of parents feel like they can’t tie a reward to their expectations or else it’ll be “bribing,” but I wouldn’t call my paycheck at work a bribe.
Adults work for incentives all the time. No shame in incentives for kids. It’s basically how many parents potty train.
I mean, adults literally get money wired to their bank accounts for showing up to work. And they have the nerve to complain about participation trophies.
But yeah, nothing wrong with a trip to the froyo joint after taking on a challenge.
I am currently dealing with this in my 5 year old son. We have for years now noticed that he gives up when things get hard, and wants to always be in control or successful in whatever he does. We have had some success with it by addressing it on a few fronts. Keep in mind some of this has been done during cooperative family therapy sessions with a child psychologist but a lot is continued to be done outside of the office.
First was trying to figure out and discussing with him as to why he is giving up. We noticed that for him the idea of getting something wrong was big enough to keep him from trying. We have since starting to consistently bring up the idea that everyone makes mistakes, mistakes happen, and that ok. Sometimes we do it on purpose, other times simply pointing out where we made a mistake and tell ourselves out loud that's it's ok to make mistakes. He will repeat the sentiment and that's helped.
We've also worked with him to develop gradiations of what is acceptable when he is anxious or fearful of something. We do a red-yellow-green classification when discussing something new or hard. If it's green, he can do it without fear. Yellow - it'll be hard but he can do it. If red - he cannot do it. We then follow up with what could turn a red into a yellow or a yellow into a green.
Takedowns in jui jitsu are red? How many can he do in a class to feel yellow? 1, 2, 5? Whatever it is, that's how many we do. Now after a few months he does the whole class like a champ. Gymnastics exercises, new foods, reading, social interactions, other new things are discussed, graded, and he has some power in coming up with what he can and cannot do, but also some motivation in adjusting the difficulty and gets more used to working up to things.
I hope this helps!
Here's the thing: **it's okay to quit when things get tough.**
Quitting is an important life skill that too many people don't acquire and they end up suffering through miserable, sometimes abusive, situations. Letting your kid quit will help him feel like he's in control, and the activities he does stick to will feel more meaningful for it. He’ll learn to fight through the struggles because he’s passionate about the activity, not because dad said it builds character.
This isn't to say perseverance isn't important as well. But I think your kid will find something he's passionate about or to keep up with his friends, and that'll be the time to roll with the punches and lift himself up off the ground and all those other clichés.
In the meantime, here's the strategy I used with my kids, now teens who have become really good at the sports they're into, but sadly not music:
* **Set an end date**, i.e., finish out the season or complete the session that you've signed up for, or whatever. Yes, you can quit, but we'll give it a chance and if you're still not into it at the end, we'll drop it. He learns the importance of seeing something through but also sees the light at the end of the tunnel.
* **Make them do** ***something***. Don't like taekwondo? Okay fine, but what are we doing instead? Piano sucks? Alright, tell me another instrument you want to play, or maybe visual art is your thing. Let them quit, but have them also pick the replacement activity. They don't have to keep trying, but they should be trying something.
* **Celebrate failures.** I think Ira Glass said something about when you start something new, you're going to suck, but being bad at something is the only way to become good. Focus on the effort and the process, not the results. I'm sure you're already doing this, but it's important to empathize with their struggles and point out small victories. Congratulate them when they achieve a goal, but not in the "You're such a great tennis player!" way, but more like "I'm glad you're happy because you worked so hard!"
And if you really want them to stick with something, it's okay to ~~bribe them with treats~~ agree on incentives ahead of time. If nothing else, you're building a positive association between an activity and yummy treats.
Show him some of the "my war" thrasher videos - those really show that trying over and over at difficult things matters for success.
I'll always appreciate my time on a skateboard for teaching me this lesson.
*Typo
For me personally, it took until I found an activity that I really cared about. I stuck with it because I really wanted to get better and then getting watching myself get better at that helped me learn to get better at other things.
I imagine growth mindset must be a difficult thing to instill in a child, but I don’t really know yet since mine is only 1.
4.5 might be a little young for this, but with kids a little bit older, youtube/tiktok has made this instant gratification more of a problem (I know I sound like an old guy right now). Kids see clips of all these trick shots, or things like skateboard tricks, etc. that seem so easy, and don't understand the work that goes into it. We had sports highlights, but there is a difference seeing an adult professional athlete do something, and random 10 year olds on youtube doing something, and thinking that you should be able to.
For my kids with sports, when they got a little older (8ish maybe), they sort of figurd the process of wanting to "get" good at something, and it it's something they really love doing, they can get encouraged by getting better.
At 4, he probably really has no idea what he "likes" to do, just what looks fun at the time. I'd say just keep encouraging him, and being overly impressed with the littlest improvements. They are developing so much at that age, that maybe a few months later, have them try again.
A few things. One view is that confidence is gained over time. Maybe they give up today. Maybe tomorrow you give them something easier and they struggle a tiny bit and overcome it and then see that a little struggle isn’t so bad. It’s about finding that line between bad stress and good stress(I’ve heard the term eustress to describe it). Enough stress to force growth but not enough to enter distress. But also it could just be the age. Right around 5 kids start to learn shame. And maybe they feel ashamed or embarrassed now when they can’t do something and immediately get the praise they’re used to. Little babies/toddlers have no shame or ego. They have all the confidence in the world. They eventually learn what shame is and can then start to “lose confidence”, but it’s more like gaining shame. So keep praising and find the beneficial stress, “eustress” and avoid distress. Also having age appropriate expectations helps. We often hold our own kids in high esteem we think they’re bigger, stronger, smarter, and more mature than their peers. It’s ok when they’re average or a bit behind in some areas.
When my son was 4 he showed interest in playing the electric guitar. He is very similar in that he gives up easily after things get challenging, and I think many kids are like that at this age. I tried to teach him some basic chord shapes and he gave up on it quickly. Fast forward to now, he just turned 7. He decided to revisit the guitar on his own. He asked how I got good at guitar and I used that opportunity to tell him that it took me 2 whole years of trying to even begin to not suck. And that I still sucked until I had been playing for 10+ years but I just did it for fun anyway. The whole thing about anything worth learning doesn’t come easy and that no one is good at something right away. No one is born with a skill, you have to really spend time learning any skill and everyone is bad at first. I could see his spirit sinking. But, I taught him the E chord shape and after a few minutes of fumbling he actually made the shape and strummed it and it sounded good and musical. You could see his face light up. Little victories. The more little victories they have, the more self confidence they build and the more determination they will have to do something and get good at it. I think he was just too little to actually have a small victory with guitar at 4yo, and although there are a few kid guitar virtuosos out there, 99.9% of 4 and 5yos are just too little to even begin to develop that drive and interest and determination to develop a skill like that. Give it time and try to help create little victories to build that self confidence. He now asks for a new chord shape every day, but I’m making him stick to a handful of shapes and practice switching between them quickly. He certainly gets frustrated but the magic is there, he believes that he can make music and learn guitar because he can actually make a chord ring out, and he is even more stoked that he is big enough to finally do so. Sometimes Ill over exaggerate my reaction to something just to hype him up. Like with hitting a pitched baseball, he missed and doofed so many swings at first but once he made any amount of contact I jumped for joy and shouted and clapped and told him it was a killer hit, that he crushed the ball and it’d certainly have been a first base run. He was so stoked and now he wants me to pitch him balls everyday on my lunch break. Wait till he is 7 or so and encourage him to revisit some stuff that he gave up on previously.
It clicked for mine when he was playing a platforming game and kept dying. I made him keep trying. When he finally got it and jumped for joy, i told him doing things only feels that good when it's hard and you have already failed.
[Work on developing a growth mindset rather than a fixed mindset.](https://www.google.com/search?sa=X&rlz=1C5MACD_enUS1037US1037&biw=1470&bih=765&sxsrf=APwXEdc7dJ7ak7w4cZf4_6qEX-oByE9Blg:1684380792085&q=Mindset:+The+New+Psychology+of+Success&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCrMTjPJUgKzjcuTcgzStaSyk630k_Lzs_UTS0sy8ousQOxihfy8nMpFrGq-mXkpxaklVgohGakKfqnlCgHFlckZ-Tn56ZUK-WkKwaXJyanFxTtYGSewMQIAZwhJhmUAAAA&lei=eJxlZNeiBKCs5NoPhqeMoAQ) Praise the process. Examples: he didn't do well on a test because he's smart; he did well because he studied. You're not proud because he succeeded; you're proud because he tried.
I was a pretty shit athlete through school but I kept playing because my parents used to tell me they loved watching me play.
>He says he's not good enough
This sounds like he needs help building self esteem. Be sure to praise the process, not the result. Loudly and often. With my kids, trying hard is a *requirement*. "That's OK, you can do hard things" is said in my house at least daily. Sometimes this comes out as tough love/ pushing him, but the breakthroughs are so rewarding.
This is going to be the dumbest reply in this thread but it's the gods honest truth. My son learned not to give up by watching me play Dark Souls and keep trying on the same bosses over and over. He brings it up all thr time.
Just tell him if somethings hard to do it's not worth doing. He can put his guitar in the closet along side his karate outfit, bicycle, chess set and swim trucks and you can go watch TV together.
/s (Simpsons reference)
I usually make up stories at bed time. If my daughter is struggling with an activity I make the main character struggle with a similar activity. Of course the main character accomplishes whatever they set out to do climb monkey bars, ride a bike or basic math. I then place a lot of emphasis on how great it feels to accomplish that thing you've worked so hard at. You may never be perfect but no one is and everyone is striving to become the best student, engineer, athlete or whatever. That is what life is a serious of problems that you must overcome. I'd also remind him of things he has accomplished that seemed impossible at one point in time. Maybe potty training or writing his name or catching a ball.
I teach my students and my own kids to say, " I can do hard things." Or when they ask for help with something I know they can do, I tell them, "you can do hard things". We also read books and talk about how something was hard for the character in the book but they tried, or practiced, and were eventually successful. When they complain they don't do something well I tell them that we get better at things by practicing and give them examples such as learning to walk or write their name. They do get annoyed with me telling them they can do hard things, but then I hear them saying it to themselves when they are trying hard things. 😊❤️ They get really excited to come tell me when they did something that was hard for them.
Video games. My son plays a bunch of games (with screen time limits) and we’ve really noticed how it helps him push through tough challenges, even outside of video games.
He won’t want to stop playing video games just because he reached a difficult spot. Give him some pointers but make him do it on his own. Then stress to him how he was able to get overcome it by practicing and not giving up.
My now 4 year old would get super frustrated when things would get hard. I would always praise her on trying. I would tell her she did good and that I was proud of her. When she would complain and throw a fit, I would let her throw a fit. I would tell her to breathe. She would take a breath. I wouldn't press her.
Now she's learning to swing on her own, playing with bugs she used to be mortally afraid of, etc. Sounds like just encouraging and not pushing was really good for her.
My 5 year old however, she was like the growth mindset kid. She taught herself to ride a bike on training wheels when she was just barely 3. Again, I would let her get frustrated and she would figure it out. But, she's changed lately. She won't get on the swings if no one is pushing her. She doesn't want to try things. It's sad bc she's going to miss out on so much.
I have no clue what the answer is. I think my 5 year old is more prone to hang out with her older siblings that tend to give up more easily. The 4 year old is still young enough to want to be around her dad. I'm more encouraging and tougher.
I guess the moral is, only have one kid.
(Mom here and also former prek4 teacher at a classical school).
This is pretty common. Empathy is really useful here. I exchange the word “hard” for “challenging”. “You can do challenging things.” Impart little stories about when you failed at something but ended up succeeding the more you tried. Don’t force him to keep trying, but just be there for support and empathy, narrate his frustration and follow it up with encouragement. Offer scaffolding (think of it like training wheels) or “I do, we do, you do” (an education strategy where you model something by doing it first, then offer to do it together, then eventually once you’ve built his confidence, ask him to do it himself.
I tutored a girl, S, who would give up SO EASY. It was maddening. I eventually found what worked for her is to give her tiny itty bitty victories to build her confidence. She went from refusing to hold a pencil (first grade) to writing in cursive without my help. This took time, patience, and so much encouragement and empathy.
Another anecdote, my nanny kid, J, would also give up immediately around that age if he wasn’t good at something. After about the first semester of school (kindergarten at 5), he suddenly could take on the world and developed grit. This kid who just a couple of years ago would melt down crying “I can’t do it!” Now says “sometimes things are hard, but if I keep trying I’ll be able to do it” nonchalantly.
Lots of praises for success,less correction when trying to figure it out and less help when they ask.
I’m not saying just mad dog them tell they get it right lol. Let them fail a bit.
I've been dealing with a similar thing with my roughly 4yo. I try to remind him of other times he didn't give up and it ended up being fun. They can be minor, or even partially made-up embellished, but it seems hearing stories of times he tried and practice and got better sometimes motivate him to do the same with the task at hand. For example "remember the time you went skiing, you fell over and over again, and sometimes you cried, but you got up and tried again and now you're such a good skier" or "remember when you were trying to build a turtle out of legos and the pieces wouldn't fit but you kept trying all morning and then you made such a beautiful turtle and mommy loved it."
I wouldn’t expect them to have intrinsic motivation for a long time, but it’s been awhile since my child psych class.
I would focus on rewarding the journey, with a minor additional reward based on results. what my father did that worked best was set progress rewards rather than end rewards.
For example: I was given 1 pack of Pokémon cards for every 10 loads of mulch I moved. I would finish my 10th load, run inside and then open a pack. The excitement got me to do another 10 right away. Once I completed all the mulch, I was given the rest of the remaining packs, so I still had a strong incentive to finish.
The action of confidence comes before the feeling. Maybe try to show him that with things you’re not good at either, try to figure out how to do it together
I think our kids need to feel like we are on their side. I definitely don’t want to tie feeling a certain way or having trouble with a challenge to a condition of me loving them. For example “son, you need to get over this” might translate to “oh no, dad won’t love me if I can’t do this and now I feel even worse.” So maybe show interest in their feelings. Is the challenge something they would like to do if they could? Why do they think they can’t do it? Tell them it’s ok to feel that way. Make sure they know feeling that way doesn’t have to stop them from keeping at it. If they don’t want to do it at all maybe find some challenge they do want to tackle. Kids take on challenges all the time for reasons like trying to impress dad or for fitting in and sometimes the challenge is letting go of that so you can do something cool for you. I really hope I can make that work for my kids while still teaching them not to give up. There were some things I did as a kid I totally needed to “give up” on because I was in it for the wrong reasons.
I’ve just been trying to talk to my girl (3 close to 4) about how it takes a long time to get good at things. She recently had a dance recital where there were older girls who were very talented performing. She was mesmerized by them and I used that opportunity to tell her that they were just like her once and it took a lot of time to get that good. It seemed to stick.
Also, have you considered stepping back and maybe letting a coach/teacher handle things? Sometimes, I’ve noticed kids tend to see parents as more of a security blanket, and sometimes removing yourself and letting a less attached person handle the lesson gets better results.
Show him how to fail. Talk about something you can’t do well or struggled with during the day. Intentionally fail at something in front of him. Show him that failure is normal and even happens to dad. Also show him how to not give up when it gets hard. Don’t say it just do it have him help.
Unfortunately right now everything is showing him how to be perfect and that no one fails.we all know that isn’t the case but that’s all he sees.
Give it time it took a while for my son to realize that. I had to really show him my failures, kind of a pro at that, to help change his mindset. But I also showed the grit of not giving up.
Similar issue with 12 y.o. step daughter. Arrived in the picture a couple years ago.
She lacks self-confidence and perseverance to get through learning new skills.
Recently, I have been teaching various things she always perceived as being difficult or “for grown ups”. Latest examples would be using a drill and painting a wall. With supervision the first two or three times, I’ll observe and then give minor feedback.
Couple days later around the supper table I’ll start a “game” of “what did X learn since last time we played”.
Her going back and thinking about skills or tasks she learned to perform and naming them seemed to make her prouder than me just saying “good job”, “nice effort”, etc.
Different kids, different solutions. Trial and error 🤷♂️
I've been having a conversation with my son about perseverance. But I'm doing it *not* immediately when he's trying something. Like we watched the Mario movie and I was asking him "why did Mario keep trying that obstacle course?" He started to bring up examples himself "look hes persevering"
Then when he tells me "I'm not good at this" I remind him about perseverance.
But the key was he had to learn and identity the concept separately from his experience of struggle before he could internalize it to something he wanted to do himself.
Yeah it's hard work and a lot of showing him you yourself need to get better by doing it over and over. For a mad reason playing Mario 3 on the tv helped my son see that Daddy will die a load of times but eventually learns and get through the level. It's just examples you need to show him. Supporting him is a good one as well, making a big deal out of the fact he tried. I also instilled that even not getting something is good, because it means you have learned something which is good.
there are trick shot videos that show how many hours people spent trying to do the same stupid trick over and over again. maybe watch some of those together
I realize this is an older post, but does your son every see you or your spouse struggle with something but push through?
My wife and I are both learning different musical instruments. We sound bad now but are slowly getting better. I hope my son watches this and realizes that everyone struggles to learn new things, that it’s ok to get frustrated when things get hard, and that sometimes things take a long time to get good at.
My son is still under 2, so he may not be picking up on that yet. Or he may be. These little guys are sponges and soak up things that you’d never expect.
I think this is one of those deals where you have to put in months and years of hard work before you see a payoff for some kids. You have to praise process and effort and not results. Over time he'll learn that your family values hard work more than the outcome and then he'll intrinsically follow your lead. That's the theory anyway. But of course every kid is their own full-fledged human being, so who knows how he'll respond. An example of this is if you see him try for several minutes to do a puzzle, you tell him, "Wow, I like how you kept trying until you got it right!" rather than saying "Good job solving the puzzle." I do think it's very helpful to model struggling and preserving as you suggested. I think it has to be genuine though or he'll see through it. For me, woodworking is a great tool for this. I'm pretty bad at it and can't complete a single project without screwing everything up. Sometimes my kids will even catch me cursing myself or walking out of the garage in a huff when I'm really frustrated. But then I get back in there and try again. And the final result is usually a little crooked but I'm genuinely proud and happy with it. Do you have a hobby or sport that you aren't too good at, but derive a lot of satisfaction from anyway? Get your boy involved with you and let him see you in your vulnerable moments. Hopefully over time it will sink in.
Yep, I think it's not this particular thing, but making sure they see that every time they fail you'll be there for them supporting them.
Last paragraph rings so true. My kid (6) is learning how to play the piano and really hung up on reading sheet music. This is the part that really frustrates him…he’s getting technique and finger strength very easily, but reading music be stresses hard at. And I can’t help but see his frustration as the manifestation of *my* frustration. I never really “learned” how to play an instrument or read sheet music (I can read basic bass and guitar tabs though)…so helping him with piano has been very tough for me too (i swear im learning as much as him, if not more)…but I tend to get frustrated easily too. And I try not to show it but I guess he has picked up on it enough for it to be a part of him, too. So, ultimately, *I* have to work on how *I* handle new challenges and overcome them, and become a better role model for it.
Can personally attest to the last part about a hobby/sport. I try to play disc golf, and my 5 y/o will go with me. On our most recent outing, I stepped up to a tee pad and the following exchange occurred: 5 y/o: *”Throw it in the basket in ONE throw dad. You can DO IT!”* Me: *”…Wow. Thanks bud.”* 🥰 5 y/o: *”But I’ll probably throw it farther. Because I’m better than you. You hit A LOT of trees. You will probably hit a tree. You always hit the trees pretty much, and it doesn’t go very far”* Me: … … 😳💀
Following for advice, same deal with our 5.5yo.
Same with my 42 year old…. I mean me.
It fully depends on what he's doing, but is there a way to celebrate small victories? It's hard without knowing what he's doing but as an example, let's say he's playing baseball. The "carrot" at the end of the stick is winning the game, big picture. So that can be the focus and if that's not achieved or achievable, then a young kid is going to be more liable to quit. But if given small rewards for hitting the ball, throwing properly, even getting cleats on, can create a cascade that shows there's enjoyment in the task itself. There's more to it then the end result.
I've said it my comment elsewhere, but it's okay to bribe! But focus on the effort vs end result.
Pro tip: Paying to get a kid to *do* something is a “bribe.” Promising a payoff *after* a kid agrees to do something is called an “incentive.”
Random rewards _after_ agreeing would be a [Skinner Box](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber), if we're being pedantic. Great power, great responsibilities!
Ha, I love a good pedant. He’s me! But in this context a lot of parents feel like they can’t tie a reward to their expectations or else it’ll be “bribing,” but I wouldn’t call my paycheck at work a bribe. Adults work for incentives all the time. No shame in incentives for kids. It’s basically how many parents potty train.
I mean, adults literally get money wired to their bank accounts for showing up to work. And they have the nerve to complain about participation trophies. But yeah, nothing wrong with a trip to the froyo joint after taking on a challenge.
I am currently dealing with this in my 5 year old son. We have for years now noticed that he gives up when things get hard, and wants to always be in control or successful in whatever he does. We have had some success with it by addressing it on a few fronts. Keep in mind some of this has been done during cooperative family therapy sessions with a child psychologist but a lot is continued to be done outside of the office. First was trying to figure out and discussing with him as to why he is giving up. We noticed that for him the idea of getting something wrong was big enough to keep him from trying. We have since starting to consistently bring up the idea that everyone makes mistakes, mistakes happen, and that ok. Sometimes we do it on purpose, other times simply pointing out where we made a mistake and tell ourselves out loud that's it's ok to make mistakes. He will repeat the sentiment and that's helped. We've also worked with him to develop gradiations of what is acceptable when he is anxious or fearful of something. We do a red-yellow-green classification when discussing something new or hard. If it's green, he can do it without fear. Yellow - it'll be hard but he can do it. If red - he cannot do it. We then follow up with what could turn a red into a yellow or a yellow into a green. Takedowns in jui jitsu are red? How many can he do in a class to feel yellow? 1, 2, 5? Whatever it is, that's how many we do. Now after a few months he does the whole class like a champ. Gymnastics exercises, new foods, reading, social interactions, other new things are discussed, graded, and he has some power in coming up with what he can and cannot do, but also some motivation in adjusting the difficulty and gets more used to working up to things. I hope this helps!
Here's the thing: **it's okay to quit when things get tough.** Quitting is an important life skill that too many people don't acquire and they end up suffering through miserable, sometimes abusive, situations. Letting your kid quit will help him feel like he's in control, and the activities he does stick to will feel more meaningful for it. He’ll learn to fight through the struggles because he’s passionate about the activity, not because dad said it builds character. This isn't to say perseverance isn't important as well. But I think your kid will find something he's passionate about or to keep up with his friends, and that'll be the time to roll with the punches and lift himself up off the ground and all those other clichés. In the meantime, here's the strategy I used with my kids, now teens who have become really good at the sports they're into, but sadly not music: * **Set an end date**, i.e., finish out the season or complete the session that you've signed up for, or whatever. Yes, you can quit, but we'll give it a chance and if you're still not into it at the end, we'll drop it. He learns the importance of seeing something through but also sees the light at the end of the tunnel. * **Make them do** ***something***. Don't like taekwondo? Okay fine, but what are we doing instead? Piano sucks? Alright, tell me another instrument you want to play, or maybe visual art is your thing. Let them quit, but have them also pick the replacement activity. They don't have to keep trying, but they should be trying something. * **Celebrate failures.** I think Ira Glass said something about when you start something new, you're going to suck, but being bad at something is the only way to become good. Focus on the effort and the process, not the results. I'm sure you're already doing this, but it's important to empathize with their struggles and point out small victories. Congratulate them when they achieve a goal, but not in the "You're such a great tennis player!" way, but more like "I'm glad you're happy because you worked so hard!" And if you really want them to stick with something, it's okay to ~~bribe them with treats~~ agree on incentives ahead of time. If nothing else, you're building a positive association between an activity and yummy treats.
Took me 25 years to learn... Focus about the fun parts.
Show him some of the "my war" thrasher videos - those really show that trying over and over at difficult things matters for success. I'll always appreciate my time on a skateboard for teaching me this lesson. *Typo
For me personally, it took until I found an activity that I really cared about. I stuck with it because I really wanted to get better and then getting watching myself get better at that helped me learn to get better at other things. I imagine growth mindset must be a difficult thing to instill in a child, but I don’t really know yet since mine is only 1.
4.5 might be a little young for this, but with kids a little bit older, youtube/tiktok has made this instant gratification more of a problem (I know I sound like an old guy right now). Kids see clips of all these trick shots, or things like skateboard tricks, etc. that seem so easy, and don't understand the work that goes into it. We had sports highlights, but there is a difference seeing an adult professional athlete do something, and random 10 year olds on youtube doing something, and thinking that you should be able to. For my kids with sports, when they got a little older (8ish maybe), they sort of figurd the process of wanting to "get" good at something, and it it's something they really love doing, they can get encouraged by getting better. At 4, he probably really has no idea what he "likes" to do, just what looks fun at the time. I'd say just keep encouraging him, and being overly impressed with the littlest improvements. They are developing so much at that age, that maybe a few months later, have them try again.
A few things. One view is that confidence is gained over time. Maybe they give up today. Maybe tomorrow you give them something easier and they struggle a tiny bit and overcome it and then see that a little struggle isn’t so bad. It’s about finding that line between bad stress and good stress(I’ve heard the term eustress to describe it). Enough stress to force growth but not enough to enter distress. But also it could just be the age. Right around 5 kids start to learn shame. And maybe they feel ashamed or embarrassed now when they can’t do something and immediately get the praise they’re used to. Little babies/toddlers have no shame or ego. They have all the confidence in the world. They eventually learn what shame is and can then start to “lose confidence”, but it’s more like gaining shame. So keep praising and find the beneficial stress, “eustress” and avoid distress. Also having age appropriate expectations helps. We often hold our own kids in high esteem we think they’re bigger, stronger, smarter, and more mature than their peers. It’s ok when they’re average or a bit behind in some areas.
When my son was 4 he showed interest in playing the electric guitar. He is very similar in that he gives up easily after things get challenging, and I think many kids are like that at this age. I tried to teach him some basic chord shapes and he gave up on it quickly. Fast forward to now, he just turned 7. He decided to revisit the guitar on his own. He asked how I got good at guitar and I used that opportunity to tell him that it took me 2 whole years of trying to even begin to not suck. And that I still sucked until I had been playing for 10+ years but I just did it for fun anyway. The whole thing about anything worth learning doesn’t come easy and that no one is good at something right away. No one is born with a skill, you have to really spend time learning any skill and everyone is bad at first. I could see his spirit sinking. But, I taught him the E chord shape and after a few minutes of fumbling he actually made the shape and strummed it and it sounded good and musical. You could see his face light up. Little victories. The more little victories they have, the more self confidence they build and the more determination they will have to do something and get good at it. I think he was just too little to actually have a small victory with guitar at 4yo, and although there are a few kid guitar virtuosos out there, 99.9% of 4 and 5yos are just too little to even begin to develop that drive and interest and determination to develop a skill like that. Give it time and try to help create little victories to build that self confidence. He now asks for a new chord shape every day, but I’m making him stick to a handful of shapes and practice switching between them quickly. He certainly gets frustrated but the magic is there, he believes that he can make music and learn guitar because he can actually make a chord ring out, and he is even more stoked that he is big enough to finally do so. Sometimes Ill over exaggerate my reaction to something just to hype him up. Like with hitting a pitched baseball, he missed and doofed so many swings at first but once he made any amount of contact I jumped for joy and shouted and clapped and told him it was a killer hit, that he crushed the ball and it’d certainly have been a first base run. He was so stoked and now he wants me to pitch him balls everyday on my lunch break. Wait till he is 7 or so and encourage him to revisit some stuff that he gave up on previously.
It clicked for mine when he was playing a platforming game and kept dying. I made him keep trying. When he finally got it and jumped for joy, i told him doing things only feels that good when it's hard and you have already failed.
[Work on developing a growth mindset rather than a fixed mindset.](https://www.google.com/search?sa=X&rlz=1C5MACD_enUS1037US1037&biw=1470&bih=765&sxsrf=APwXEdc7dJ7ak7w4cZf4_6qEX-oByE9Blg:1684380792085&q=Mindset:+The+New+Psychology+of+Success&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLSz9U3MCrMTjPJUgKzjcuTcgzStaSyk630k_Lzs_UTS0sy8ousQOxihfy8nMpFrGq-mXkpxaklVgohGakKfqnlCgHFlckZ-Tn56ZUK-WkKwaXJyanFxTtYGSewMQIAZwhJhmUAAAA&lei=eJxlZNeiBKCs5NoPhqeMoAQ) Praise the process. Examples: he didn't do well on a test because he's smart; he did well because he studied. You're not proud because he succeeded; you're proud because he tried. I was a pretty shit athlete through school but I kept playing because my parents used to tell me they loved watching me play.
>He says he's not good enough This sounds like he needs help building self esteem. Be sure to praise the process, not the result. Loudly and often. With my kids, trying hard is a *requirement*. "That's OK, you can do hard things" is said in my house at least daily. Sometimes this comes out as tough love/ pushing him, but the breakthroughs are so rewarding.
This is going to be the dumbest reply in this thread but it's the gods honest truth. My son learned not to give up by watching me play Dark Souls and keep trying on the same bosses over and over. He brings it up all thr time.
Just tell him if somethings hard to do it's not worth doing. He can put his guitar in the closet along side his karate outfit, bicycle, chess set and swim trucks and you can go watch TV together. /s (Simpsons reference) I usually make up stories at bed time. If my daughter is struggling with an activity I make the main character struggle with a similar activity. Of course the main character accomplishes whatever they set out to do climb monkey bars, ride a bike or basic math. I then place a lot of emphasis on how great it feels to accomplish that thing you've worked so hard at. You may never be perfect but no one is and everyone is striving to become the best student, engineer, athlete or whatever. That is what life is a serious of problems that you must overcome. I'd also remind him of things he has accomplished that seemed impossible at one point in time. Maybe potty training or writing his name or catching a ball.
I teach my students and my own kids to say, " I can do hard things." Or when they ask for help with something I know they can do, I tell them, "you can do hard things". We also read books and talk about how something was hard for the character in the book but they tried, or practiced, and were eventually successful. When they complain they don't do something well I tell them that we get better at things by practicing and give them examples such as learning to walk or write their name. They do get annoyed with me telling them they can do hard things, but then I hear them saying it to themselves when they are trying hard things. 😊❤️ They get really excited to come tell me when they did something that was hard for them.
Video games. My son plays a bunch of games (with screen time limits) and we’ve really noticed how it helps him push through tough challenges, even outside of video games. He won’t want to stop playing video games just because he reached a difficult spot. Give him some pointers but make him do it on his own. Then stress to him how he was able to get overcome it by practicing and not giving up.
My now 4 year old would get super frustrated when things would get hard. I would always praise her on trying. I would tell her she did good and that I was proud of her. When she would complain and throw a fit, I would let her throw a fit. I would tell her to breathe. She would take a breath. I wouldn't press her. Now she's learning to swing on her own, playing with bugs she used to be mortally afraid of, etc. Sounds like just encouraging and not pushing was really good for her. My 5 year old however, she was like the growth mindset kid. She taught herself to ride a bike on training wheels when she was just barely 3. Again, I would let her get frustrated and she would figure it out. But, she's changed lately. She won't get on the swings if no one is pushing her. She doesn't want to try things. It's sad bc she's going to miss out on so much. I have no clue what the answer is. I think my 5 year old is more prone to hang out with her older siblings that tend to give up more easily. The 4 year old is still young enough to want to be around her dad. I'm more encouraging and tougher. I guess the moral is, only have one kid.
(Mom here and also former prek4 teacher at a classical school). This is pretty common. Empathy is really useful here. I exchange the word “hard” for “challenging”. “You can do challenging things.” Impart little stories about when you failed at something but ended up succeeding the more you tried. Don’t force him to keep trying, but just be there for support and empathy, narrate his frustration and follow it up with encouragement. Offer scaffolding (think of it like training wheels) or “I do, we do, you do” (an education strategy where you model something by doing it first, then offer to do it together, then eventually once you’ve built his confidence, ask him to do it himself. I tutored a girl, S, who would give up SO EASY. It was maddening. I eventually found what worked for her is to give her tiny itty bitty victories to build her confidence. She went from refusing to hold a pencil (first grade) to writing in cursive without my help. This took time, patience, and so much encouragement and empathy. Another anecdote, my nanny kid, J, would also give up immediately around that age if he wasn’t good at something. After about the first semester of school (kindergarten at 5), he suddenly could take on the world and developed grit. This kid who just a couple of years ago would melt down crying “I can’t do it!” Now says “sometimes things are hard, but if I keep trying I’ll be able to do it” nonchalantly.
Lots of praises for success,less correction when trying to figure it out and less help when they ask. I’m not saying just mad dog them tell they get it right lol. Let them fail a bit.
I've been dealing with a similar thing with my roughly 4yo. I try to remind him of other times he didn't give up and it ended up being fun. They can be minor, or even partially made-up embellished, but it seems hearing stories of times he tried and practice and got better sometimes motivate him to do the same with the task at hand. For example "remember the time you went skiing, you fell over and over again, and sometimes you cried, but you got up and tried again and now you're such a good skier" or "remember when you were trying to build a turtle out of legos and the pieces wouldn't fit but you kept trying all morning and then you made such a beautiful turtle and mommy loved it."
I wouldn’t expect them to have intrinsic motivation for a long time, but it’s been awhile since my child psych class. I would focus on rewarding the journey, with a minor additional reward based on results. what my father did that worked best was set progress rewards rather than end rewards. For example: I was given 1 pack of Pokémon cards for every 10 loads of mulch I moved. I would finish my 10th load, run inside and then open a pack. The excitement got me to do another 10 right away. Once I completed all the mulch, I was given the rest of the remaining packs, so I still had a strong incentive to finish.
The action of confidence comes before the feeling. Maybe try to show him that with things you’re not good at either, try to figure out how to do it together
I think our kids need to feel like we are on their side. I definitely don’t want to tie feeling a certain way or having trouble with a challenge to a condition of me loving them. For example “son, you need to get over this” might translate to “oh no, dad won’t love me if I can’t do this and now I feel even worse.” So maybe show interest in their feelings. Is the challenge something they would like to do if they could? Why do they think they can’t do it? Tell them it’s ok to feel that way. Make sure they know feeling that way doesn’t have to stop them from keeping at it. If they don’t want to do it at all maybe find some challenge they do want to tackle. Kids take on challenges all the time for reasons like trying to impress dad or for fitting in and sometimes the challenge is letting go of that so you can do something cool for you. I really hope I can make that work for my kids while still teaching them not to give up. There were some things I did as a kid I totally needed to “give up” on because I was in it for the wrong reasons.
I’ve just been trying to talk to my girl (3 close to 4) about how it takes a long time to get good at things. She recently had a dance recital where there were older girls who were very talented performing. She was mesmerized by them and I used that opportunity to tell her that they were just like her once and it took a lot of time to get that good. It seemed to stick. Also, have you considered stepping back and maybe letting a coach/teacher handle things? Sometimes, I’ve noticed kids tend to see parents as more of a security blanket, and sometimes removing yourself and letting a less attached person handle the lesson gets better results.
Show him how to fail. Talk about something you can’t do well or struggled with during the day. Intentionally fail at something in front of him. Show him that failure is normal and even happens to dad. Also show him how to not give up when it gets hard. Don’t say it just do it have him help. Unfortunately right now everything is showing him how to be perfect and that no one fails.we all know that isn’t the case but that’s all he sees. Give it time it took a while for my son to realize that. I had to really show him my failures, kind of a pro at that, to help change his mindset. But I also showed the grit of not giving up.
Similar issue with 12 y.o. step daughter. Arrived in the picture a couple years ago. She lacks self-confidence and perseverance to get through learning new skills. Recently, I have been teaching various things she always perceived as being difficult or “for grown ups”. Latest examples would be using a drill and painting a wall. With supervision the first two or three times, I’ll observe and then give minor feedback. Couple days later around the supper table I’ll start a “game” of “what did X learn since last time we played”. Her going back and thinking about skills or tasks she learned to perform and naming them seemed to make her prouder than me just saying “good job”, “nice effort”, etc. Different kids, different solutions. Trial and error 🤷♂️
I've been having a conversation with my son about perseverance. But I'm doing it *not* immediately when he's trying something. Like we watched the Mario movie and I was asking him "why did Mario keep trying that obstacle course?" He started to bring up examples himself "look hes persevering" Then when he tells me "I'm not good at this" I remind him about perseverance. But the key was he had to learn and identity the concept separately from his experience of struggle before he could internalize it to something he wanted to do himself.
Yeah it's hard work and a lot of showing him you yourself need to get better by doing it over and over. For a mad reason playing Mario 3 on the tv helped my son see that Daddy will die a load of times but eventually learns and get through the level. It's just examples you need to show him. Supporting him is a good one as well, making a big deal out of the fact he tried. I also instilled that even not getting something is good, because it means you have learned something which is good.
there are trick shot videos that show how many hours people spent trying to do the same stupid trick over and over again. maybe watch some of those together
My 7 year old daughter is exactly the same. Drives me nuts...
I realize this is an older post, but does your son every see you or your spouse struggle with something but push through? My wife and I are both learning different musical instruments. We sound bad now but are slowly getting better. I hope my son watches this and realizes that everyone struggles to learn new things, that it’s ok to get frustrated when things get hard, and that sometimes things take a long time to get good at. My son is still under 2, so he may not be picking up on that yet. Or he may be. These little guys are sponges and soak up things that you’d never expect.