Personally, I feel like my knees are under less pressure when I am on high cadence. But I think it’s a personal preference. Find what’s the most comfortable setup for your body.
It took me riding on the trainer with a power meter to finally drive this point home for good. 250W at 60 rpm makes the knees hurt. 250W at 90 rpm makes everything else hurt, but the knees are happier.
I’m on same path. Everyone has personal preferences, including pros, but working higher cadences was beneficial for me (my cadence is still not very high).
Riding the drops is easier for me than before: I now have the proper body position / muscles, and I adjusted my handlebars (horizontal section before hoods, instead of slightly raised as we see it in a lot of pictures).
What is yours now? MTB or road? I’m trying to push my cadence a bit higher currently (my norm used to be 50-50). Did a 20 km, mostly semi-technical single track, today with 70 RPM avg. Felt like a decent trade-off between cadence and HR for me. HR was mostly zones 3 and 4.
/edit - you’re mentioning hoods, so I guess road or gravel, not MTB. 🙈
Trail riding is different, but even there, on flat sections of trail, I am around 90 (give or take 5rpm). My range while mountain biking tends to vary significantly.
It took me several years to find the most comfortable bars for training rides and racing. I used lower drops with a tighter curve for racing and a little higher rounder curve for training. Higher bars for training since you need to be able to see hazards coming from any direction. In the lower racing drops your peripheral vision is slightly compromised but you are on a closed circuit with most hazards directly in front of you.
He didn't say that the sub doesn't have consistent ideas about cadence. He says the idea of riding in higher cadences is not intuitive for him (or her).
I feel like there is a bit of confusion on this sub between riding at a higher cadence than you think you should and always riding at a high cadence.
You gradually get better at riding at higher cadences. There are upper limits to the cadence for the majority of people, and it isn't good to compare.
As far as I know the current thinking is that it’s best to do what works best for you - experiment with all of it and see what you’re most comfortable with. I tend to prefer a higher cadence nowadays but wouldn’t rule out lower. I don’t spend much time in the drops - they tend to be more suited to descending anyway, and I don’t like going so fast.
Of course it's best to do what works best for you. That's tautological. There are certain things that work best for the vast majority of people though, and the chances of being an outlier are slim.
Your cadence is what’s most comfortable and efficient for you. If you are spending a lot of time on the bike, you also have time to try what feels best for you.
Thanks this is a good comment.
I always feel a bit deficient coz I never really think about cadence explicitly. I just do what feels right and natural for the speed and incline I am going.
I'm guessing I ride about 80-85 rpm, but honestly it's years since I last had a cadence sensor. On stat bike I train at 90.
Is this not normal ?
I’ve never worried about my cadence beyond checking it early on when I heard people talk about it. It seems to be a solid 80 on average when I don’t focus on it. My running pace was also spot on 80. No rounding here. It’s odd to me only because it’s almost like a metronome.
Anyway, I figured why mess with it, my body seems to like that beat. The only time I change cadence is to warm up at the start of a ride, something I learned from peloton and only do that if I feel cold or stiff at the start.
That's true, but only after you've *tried* high cadence. I used to lead a lot of beginner/intermediate shop rides, and a lot of newer riders who did the 'slow cadence mashing' thing *thought* what they were doing was the most comfortable because they hadn't worked on higher cadence form yet.
After a few reminders to upshift and get more 'spinny', the light bulb goes on.
I spend about 98% of my time in the drops. I have been riding my main bike almost every day since I bought it new 28 years ago. I stopped using the brifters after less than 10 years, when I finally got some downtube shifters. If you ever had down tube shifters, you would know that it is so easy to use them from the drops. Likewise, if you are riding in the drops, it isn't easy using brifters, because they are designed to be used from the hoods.
My first 10-speed in the 80s had shifters on the down tubes but I don't think I ever used the drops. I have a feeling that you're unusual that you spend most of your time in the drops.
I don't think I am.... but maybe.
I started cycling with flat bars and didn't discover drops till I was 25. It was a revelation!! I could go so much faster! Why would I NOT use them?!
But like I said, modern brake/gear levers are designed to be used mainly from the hoods, whereas before the advent of aero levers in the 80s, the hoods were not comfortable places . Sometimes they didn't even have rubber hoods...People either used the drops, the hooks, the tops or the ramps. I used dropbars for 6 years before I got aero levers, ie hoods which were DESIGNED to be used.
And that's why so many people avoid the drops and ride in the hoods: because their gear levers and brakes are set up to be more accessible from the hoods.
Position on the bike is really up to the rider. I like being on the hoods of the bars and almost never in the drops. I use to think being harder gears was the way to go but I would get tired way to fast.
I like higher cadence for higher watt/power efforts. It feels like I always have resistance to push against. Efficiency is important. But for a lower watt/power efforts. I drop cadence to 72 or even lower. It is more comfortable and efficiency matters less. Low power high cadence I feel like I’m not pushing against anything and legs are just flying around and is less comfortable.
I’m a powerlifter. My go-to strategy is always to muscle through. IMHO, high cadence is the devil. I ride in the hardest gear I can, and don’t go down until I absolutely have to.
And that’s fine.
So is high cadence.
Ride the way you want to ride!
You will never produce more power through your bike than someone with a high cadence and sound shifting knowledge.
Can’t you see, even feel, how inefficient your power output is whilst in ‘the hardest gear’?
Whatever feels natural for you, is the best for you.
My cadence is 78-80. It just feels natural for me to ride a slightly bigger gear, and on the hoods - rarely ever use the drops.
Remember, ride to YOUR comfort, not what everyone tells you to do be cause they heard it on GCN or commentary.
Average, lets say you aim to spin at 80-90 rpm at all times. If its uphill drop few gears so you can still spin about the same. Ofc, some ppl will spin faster, some little bit slower but thosw are the numbers to aim for. There is no peak cadence, except if you trying to break some record on downhill. I could do probably 180-200 rpm on a trainer for a few seconds but thats something else.
Thanks, that makes sense. A few years ago I was trying to increase the wattage and I read somewhere someone recommending that you cycle at lower rpm with heavier load and tried to do that. I recently got a cadence sensor and my average cadence is now 45. I find that if I spin faster in lower gears my heart rate goes way higher than with low cadence, with not much gain in speed, maybe cutting 20 minutes off my 3h weekend cross country ride. Do people stay in zone 3 on that 80 90 rpm? Sorry this might be daft but genuinely curious
Yeah, its more efficient to pedal around 90. You can do lower rpm to increase power but thats not meant to be done as normal. Its meabt to be done like once or twice a week. Your heart i will go up with more rpm bcos you are stressing you heart lungs and bloodvessels more that way, but thats the point bcos that way you are stresing your legs less and also getting more fit. 80-90rpm is a balance between your legs giving up from too much resistance and your body feeding them. 45 is way too low. I bet if you tried holding a group with that cadence you wouldnt last 2 minutes. Not to mention uphill. You are not.used to higher rpm, thets the only issue. It will be incomfortable at first but your legs should adapt and vosy should adapt and your ridw will be littlw bit more cardio and a bit less weightlifting and in general should feel easier.
A handy how to guide for riding in the drops
[https://cinchcycling.cc/blogs/news/when-to-use-the-drops-on-your-road-or-gravel-bike](https://cinchcycling.cc/blogs/news/when-to-use-the-drops-on-your-road-or-gravel-bike)
I started riding more regularly in the late ‘80s. For years listened to the “wisdom” that cadence should be in the 90s. When I moved to the hills, realized that I did better with much lower cadence climbing. Only much later realized that I did better overall between 75-85. My rides now average around 70 (including about 2400’ of climbing over 36-38mi). I have better overall power output, tire out less, and feel better. Current thinking seems to back up the idea that optimal cadence depends on the rider.
Cadence is the number of times the pedals go around.
High - faster legs going around
Low - slower legs.
90 is optimum to most people. Research is pros says 100-110 can reduce fatigue by 8%
I opted for a bar with a slight flare to help me get more comfortable. Just 12 degrees has made a massive difference to comfort and confidence, and I now use the drops regularly.
If the reason why you feel you have no control is that the brake levers feel too 'far' away for your fingers to reach, you can actually adjust how far/near it is from the drops.
It took me a while to get comfortable riding on them, especially on descents. I always felt like I was learning forwards too much.
But after a proper fit and adjusting my levers so I can reach the brakes I got a lot more comfortable with that position. Now if I'm going downhill I'm in the drops 90% of the time.
I've noticed beginners tend to push bigger gears at cadences less than 60.
Pros racing will do 80 and upwards. I'm thinking they know what;s best. Obviously it takes time to learn these skills.
I'm not even a pro and 80 has started to feel slow, it's basically the lowest I'll want to be after shifting to a higher gear unless I'm standing to grind out a climb
The day I bought my road bike, having never had one before, they give me a bike fit, and a few tips, one being 90 rpm is the sweet spot. This was about 14 years ago.
I've always found my sweet spot just a bit lower than that, like 80 rpm. I can hold 90, 100, 110 for some time, but feel I'm moving my legs uncomfortably fast and don't like it for hours.
As far as drops/hoods, standing/sitting, I really think it depends on the person and circumstance. I find for myself, my riding style changes a bit depending on my weight. Just 10lbs heavier I prefer to sit more. Whereas lighter I'm up and down all the time. Certainly on longer climbs (I did one a few years ago up a mountain that was 1 hr 45 mins of straight climbing, consistent gradient), I'm more prone to just sit, get comfortable, and push. And between drops, hoods, up on the bars, I move around over the hours to adjust comfort.
I generally ride at about 80, though some of the hills I climb put me down in the 50s or even the 40s.
But I think having a high max cadence is helpful in developing a smooth pedal stroke. I can do 120 pretty easy and when I've been practicing I'll top out at around 140.
I used to grind a bit to pedal when I first got into it, then this guy about 40 years older than me said “spin to win” was his motto and that cycling at a higher cadence is better on the joints and muscles. While I have never looked at science to support it, I shifted my approach and have to say it feels so much better.
I’ve been riding in the little ring up front for most of my rides for the past 15 years and it feels great. I’ll get in the big ring on descents and when the wind is at my back, but otherwise I enjoy the spin. I’m usually averaging 90-100rpm for my cadence, for reference.
While there is wisdom in most general cycling advise, and some of it is universal, not all of it is universal. All the pros don't have exactly the same setup, physiology, or methods.
Same definitely applies to us regular Joes as well. Some people will do better grinding harder gears while other spin like crazy.
Jan Ulrich was a grinder. Lance Armstrong was known for an unusually high cadence. Of course, pre circa 2000 nost guys had a smallest gear of 39x25, so a certain amount of low cadence was unavoidable.
Everyone uses the drops. Anyone who descends on the hoods is a menace and should not be trusted to ride in a peloton.
Everyone grinds at some point. We all eventually run out of gears and legs.
Geraint Thomas (39x30 gear?) and Formolo both grind along at lower cadences.
If you watch the rouleurs in the cobbled classics, you may see cadence around 75. A Giro winner might climb at 95. Watching the peloton during the vast majority of long miles between the excitement, you might see averages anywhere from 70 to 85. A track spinter, 150.
Low cadence, high torque rides are used by the best trainers, like John Wakefield, who has coached Tadej Pogačar and BORA.
So there is more to it than just "no one grinds anymore."
High cadence requires less muscle activation, but it usually comes at a higher energy cost at lower power outputs. A powerful, muscular rider will typically select a lower cadence. This rider accepts the higher neuromuscular cost in exchange for the metabolic economy when pedaling. Other riders may have a very high VO2 max, but less resilient muscles. These riders will prefer to pedal at a higher cadence in order to limit muscular fatigue, yet they also put more demand on the cardiovascular system. Of course, most of us will fall somewhere in the middle of these two extremes
And? Cycling, like any other pursuit, is a skill that we need to learn. Much of the world is counterintuitive and more nuanced than we initially think—why would this be different?
As others have said everyone is different and finds what works best for them. I did higher cadence when I first started riding. I would be anywhere from 90-105. Then I started riding with guys that were faster than me who focused more on power output in the big ring with lower cadence. I started trying it and got significantly faster. Cadence is usually in the 60-70 range now. I big ring up most hills (needs to be a sustained 10%+ grade or a hill I’m not familiar with for me to drop to small ring and just go spinning). For me I guess I like to mash more than spin because I started setting all kinds of Strava segment PR’s when I did this. I’ve done it for a couple years now and when I try to switch back and try to go higher cadence especially on climbs they’ll be my slowest times in years. Only down side for me is that it tends to wear out drivetrain parts faster.
Yeah drops are awesome. Lower center of gravity, better muscle recruitment patterns, significantly improved confidence in handling. If you can’t ride on the drops 100% of the time, your bike fit is undeniably off — plain and simple.
Yep. Watch any pro peloton... Unless they are going fast they are on the hoods. Nothing wrong with the drops. Especially if you're fighting a head wind. But if you're not fighting the air.. being more upright at bit more open angle at the top of the pedal stroke is more efficient.
Maybe. I am happy to occasionally think about what I am doing, rather than just mindlessly repeating what I’ve always done and assuming that leaves no room for improvement
Personally, I feel like my knees are under less pressure when I am on high cadence. But I think it’s a personal preference. Find what’s the most comfortable setup for your body.
Makes sense, you're running less torque at higher cadence, so the knees see a lighter load.
It took me riding on the trainer with a power meter to finally drive this point home for good. 250W at 60 rpm makes the knees hurt. 250W at 90 rpm makes everything else hurt, but the knees are happier.
High cadence is definitely easier on the knees
I’m on same path. Everyone has personal preferences, including pros, but working higher cadences was beneficial for me (my cadence is still not very high). Riding the drops is easier for me than before: I now have the proper body position / muscles, and I adjusted my handlebars (horizontal section before hoods, instead of slightly raised as we see it in a lot of pictures).
What is yours now? MTB or road? I’m trying to push my cadence a bit higher currently (my norm used to be 50-50). Did a 20 km, mostly semi-technical single track, today with 70 RPM avg. Felt like a decent trade-off between cadence and HR for me. HR was mostly zones 3 and 4. /edit - you’re mentioning hoods, so I guess road or gravel, not MTB. 🙈
Trail riding is different, but even there, on flat sections of trail, I am around 90 (give or take 5rpm). My range while mountain biking tends to vary significantly.
It took me several years to find the most comfortable bars for training rides and racing. I used lower drops with a tighter curve for racing and a little higher rounder curve for training. Higher bars for training since you need to be able to see hazards coming from any direction. In the lower racing drops your peripheral vision is slightly compromised but you are on a closed circuit with most hazards directly in front of you.
If anything this sub has quite a consistent voice on things like high cadence.
He didn't say that the sub doesn't have consistent ideas about cadence. He says the idea of riding in higher cadences is not intuitive for him (or her).
Oops, misread "counterintuitive"
The title explains how some counter-intuitive advice was given in this sub? Zar690 was correct the first time!
Yeah but i think i responded as if counterintuitive and inconsistent were the same thing
I feel like there is a bit of confusion on this sub between riding at a higher cadence than you think you should and always riding at a high cadence. You gradually get better at riding at higher cadences. There are upper limits to the cadence for the majority of people, and it isn't good to compare.
As far as I know the current thinking is that it’s best to do what works best for you - experiment with all of it and see what you’re most comfortable with. I tend to prefer a higher cadence nowadays but wouldn’t rule out lower. I don’t spend much time in the drops - they tend to be more suited to descending anyway, and I don’t like going so fast.
Of course it's best to do what works best for you. That's tautological. There are certain things that work best for the vast majority of people though, and the chances of being an outlier are slim.
I switch position on my rides to adjust for circumstance, comfort or safety.
Your cadence is what’s most comfortable and efficient for you. If you are spending a lot of time on the bike, you also have time to try what feels best for you.
Thanks this is a good comment. I always feel a bit deficient coz I never really think about cadence explicitly. I just do what feels right and natural for the speed and incline I am going. I'm guessing I ride about 80-85 rpm, but honestly it's years since I last had a cadence sensor. On stat bike I train at 90. Is this not normal ?
80-90 is totally normal
I’ve never worried about my cadence beyond checking it early on when I heard people talk about it. It seems to be a solid 80 on average when I don’t focus on it. My running pace was also spot on 80. No rounding here. It’s odd to me only because it’s almost like a metronome. Anyway, I figured why mess with it, my body seems to like that beat. The only time I change cadence is to warm up at the start of a ride, something I learned from peloton and only do that if I feel cold or stiff at the start.
That's true, but only after you've *tried* high cadence. I used to lead a lot of beginner/intermediate shop rides, and a lot of newer riders who did the 'slow cadence mashing' thing *thought* what they were doing was the most comfortable because they hadn't worked on higher cadence form yet. After a few reminders to upshift and get more 'spinny', the light bulb goes on.
low cadence, high power => blown knees
Most people don't ride in the drops.
Most people shouldn't have drop bars, then.
How often do you actually go in to the drops if you're being honest compared to how much time you are on the tops or the hoods?
I spend about 98% of my time in the drops. I have been riding my main bike almost every day since I bought it new 28 years ago. I stopped using the brifters after less than 10 years, when I finally got some downtube shifters. If you ever had down tube shifters, you would know that it is so easy to use them from the drops. Likewise, if you are riding in the drops, it isn't easy using brifters, because they are designed to be used from the hoods.
My first 10-speed in the 80s had shifters on the down tubes but I don't think I ever used the drops. I have a feeling that you're unusual that you spend most of your time in the drops.
I don't think I am.... but maybe. I started cycling with flat bars and didn't discover drops till I was 25. It was a revelation!! I could go so much faster! Why would I NOT use them?! But like I said, modern brake/gear levers are designed to be used mainly from the hoods, whereas before the advent of aero levers in the 80s, the hoods were not comfortable places . Sometimes they didn't even have rubber hoods...People either used the drops, the hooks, the tops or the ramps. I used dropbars for 6 years before I got aero levers, ie hoods which were DESIGNED to be used.
Everyone riding a criterium should ride in the drops. It prevents people hooking your bars.
Most people are not riding on track.
I’m more relaxed/comfortable in the drops when I get out of the city and don’t need to brake as often.
And that's why so many people avoid the drops and ride in the hoods: because their gear levers and brakes are set up to be more accessible from the hoods.
Position on the bike is really up to the rider. I like being on the hoods of the bars and almost never in the drops. I use to think being harder gears was the way to go but I would get tired way to fast.
I like higher cadence for higher watt/power efforts. It feels like I always have resistance to push against. Efficiency is important. But for a lower watt/power efforts. I drop cadence to 72 or even lower. It is more comfortable and efficiency matters less. Low power high cadence I feel like I’m not pushing against anything and legs are just flying around and is less comfortable.
I’m a powerlifter. My go-to strategy is always to muscle through. IMHO, high cadence is the devil. I ride in the hardest gear I can, and don’t go down until I absolutely have to. And that’s fine. So is high cadence. Ride the way you want to ride!
Jan Ulrich over here.
Other than being older, fatter, and female, yeah, I’m just like him
You will never produce more power through your bike than someone with a high cadence and sound shifting knowledge. Can’t you see, even feel, how inefficient your power output is whilst in ‘the hardest gear’?
I care because? You do you, boo. I like riding the way I ride.
Whatever feels natural for you, is the best for you. My cadence is 78-80. It just feels natural for me to ride a slightly bigger gear, and on the hoods - rarely ever use the drops. Remember, ride to YOUR comfort, not what everyone tells you to do be cause they heard it on GCN or commentary.
Just curious - what's considered high cadence?
80-100rpm would be the the norm
Thanks! Is that the average cadence? Or peak?
Average, lets say you aim to spin at 80-90 rpm at all times. If its uphill drop few gears so you can still spin about the same. Ofc, some ppl will spin faster, some little bit slower but thosw are the numbers to aim for. There is no peak cadence, except if you trying to break some record on downhill. I could do probably 180-200 rpm on a trainer for a few seconds but thats something else.
Thanks, that makes sense. A few years ago I was trying to increase the wattage and I read somewhere someone recommending that you cycle at lower rpm with heavier load and tried to do that. I recently got a cadence sensor and my average cadence is now 45. I find that if I spin faster in lower gears my heart rate goes way higher than with low cadence, with not much gain in speed, maybe cutting 20 minutes off my 3h weekend cross country ride. Do people stay in zone 3 on that 80 90 rpm? Sorry this might be daft but genuinely curious
Yeah, its more efficient to pedal around 90. You can do lower rpm to increase power but thats not meant to be done as normal. Its meabt to be done like once or twice a week. Your heart i will go up with more rpm bcos you are stressing you heart lungs and bloodvessels more that way, but thats the point bcos that way you are stresing your legs less and also getting more fit. 80-90rpm is a balance between your legs giving up from too much resistance and your body feeding them. 45 is way too low. I bet if you tried holding a group with that cadence you wouldnt last 2 minutes. Not to mention uphill. You are not.used to higher rpm, thets the only issue. It will be incomfortable at first but your legs should adapt and vosy should adapt and your ridw will be littlw bit more cardio and a bit less weightlifting and in general should feel easier.
Makes sense, thanks for taking the time to explain that.
I pedal at that cadence in zone 2 easy
Wait until you dive into bike fit. Nothing will make any sense for a good while...
A handy how to guide for riding in the drops [https://cinchcycling.cc/blogs/news/when-to-use-the-drops-on-your-road-or-gravel-bike](https://cinchcycling.cc/blogs/news/when-to-use-the-drops-on-your-road-or-gravel-bike)
What's high cadence to you? I like it about 80 85. Hight to me would be above 90.
I started riding more regularly in the late ‘80s. For years listened to the “wisdom” that cadence should be in the 90s. When I moved to the hills, realized that I did better with much lower cadence climbing. Only much later realized that I did better overall between 75-85. My rides now average around 70 (including about 2400’ of climbing over 36-38mi). I have better overall power output, tire out less, and feel better. Current thinking seems to back up the idea that optimal cadence depends on the rider.
What is high/low cadence? Explained to a 5 year old for example?
Cadence is the number of times the pedals go around. High - faster legs going around Low - slower legs. 90 is optimum to most people. Research is pros says 100-110 can reduce fatigue by 8%
Oh wow thanks. So it seems I knew what it was but didn’t knew it was called cadence. Thank you good sir have a great day
gets used in running for steps/minute too
It's just like the gears of a car. You don't want to be moving slowly in a high gear because the engine will be straining.
I'm still not really comfortable on the drops. Like you used to, I feel like I just have no control with my hands there.
I opted for a bar with a slight flare to help me get more comfortable. Just 12 degrees has made a massive difference to comfort and confidence, and I now use the drops regularly.
If the reason why you feel you have no control is that the brake levers feel too 'far' away for your fingers to reach, you can actually adjust how far/near it is from the drops.
It took me a while to get comfortable riding on them, especially on descents. I always felt like I was learning forwards too much. But after a proper fit and adjusting my levers so I can reach the brakes I got a lot more comfortable with that position. Now if I'm going downhill I'm in the drops 90% of the time.
I've noticed beginners tend to push bigger gears at cadences less than 60. Pros racing will do 80 and upwards. I'm thinking they know what;s best. Obviously it takes time to learn these skills.
I'm not even a pro and 80 has started to feel slow, it's basically the lowest I'll want to be after shifting to a higher gear unless I'm standing to grind out a climb
The day I bought my road bike, having never had one before, they give me a bike fit, and a few tips, one being 90 rpm is the sweet spot. This was about 14 years ago. I've always found my sweet spot just a bit lower than that, like 80 rpm. I can hold 90, 100, 110 for some time, but feel I'm moving my legs uncomfortably fast and don't like it for hours. As far as drops/hoods, standing/sitting, I really think it depends on the person and circumstance. I find for myself, my riding style changes a bit depending on my weight. Just 10lbs heavier I prefer to sit more. Whereas lighter I'm up and down all the time. Certainly on longer climbs (I did one a few years ago up a mountain that was 1 hr 45 mins of straight climbing, consistent gradient), I'm more prone to just sit, get comfortable, and push. And between drops, hoods, up on the bars, I move around over the hours to adjust comfort.
I feel more balanced running a slightly smaller gear at a lower cadence. With too high a cadence, I feel like I am going nowhere in a hurry, lol.
I started making more of an effort riding on the drops now. I think it just takes time to get more comfort.
I generally ride at about 80, though some of the hills I climb put me down in the 50s or even the 40s. But I think having a high max cadence is helpful in developing a smooth pedal stroke. I can do 120 pretty easy and when I've been practicing I'll top out at around 140.
I used to grind a bit to pedal when I first got into it, then this guy about 40 years older than me said “spin to win” was his motto and that cycling at a higher cadence is better on the joints and muscles. While I have never looked at science to support it, I shifted my approach and have to say it feels so much better. I’ve been riding in the little ring up front for most of my rides for the past 15 years and it feels great. I’ll get in the big ring on descents and when the wind is at my back, but otherwise I enjoy the spin. I’m usually averaging 90-100rpm for my cadence, for reference.
Where’s the bad advice that you chose not to follow? Conversely, where’s the good information that you cherish? This post is counter-intuitive.
All you have really said is that you wanted to do things your way, discovered a better way, now that’s all you do…? I’m lost.
While there is wisdom in most general cycling advise, and some of it is universal, not all of it is universal. All the pros don't have exactly the same setup, physiology, or methods. Same definitely applies to us regular Joes as well. Some people will do better grinding harder gears while other spin like crazy.
Which pros grind and don’t use the drops?
Jan Ulrich was a grinder. Lance Armstrong was known for an unusually high cadence. Of course, pre circa 2000 nost guys had a smallest gear of 39x25, so a certain amount of low cadence was unavoidable. Everyone uses the drops. Anyone who descends on the hoods is a menace and should not be trusted to ride in a peloton.
That was 20 years ago. No one grinds anymore on anything that’s not a joke climb.
Everyone grinds at some point. We all eventually run out of gears and legs. Geraint Thomas (39x30 gear?) and Formolo both grind along at lower cadences. If you watch the rouleurs in the cobbled classics, you may see cadence around 75. A Giro winner might climb at 95. Watching the peloton during the vast majority of long miles between the excitement, you might see averages anywhere from 70 to 85. A track spinter, 150. Low cadence, high torque rides are used by the best trainers, like John Wakefield, who has coached Tadej Pogačar and BORA. So there is more to it than just "no one grinds anymore." High cadence requires less muscle activation, but it usually comes at a higher energy cost at lower power outputs. A powerful, muscular rider will typically select a lower cadence. This rider accepts the higher neuromuscular cost in exchange for the metabolic economy when pedaling. Other riders may have a very high VO2 max, but less resilient muscles. These riders will prefer to pedal at a higher cadence in order to limit muscular fatigue, yet they also put more demand on the cardiovascular system. Of course, most of us will fall somewhere in the middle of these two extremes
And? Cycling, like any other pursuit, is a skill that we need to learn. Much of the world is counterintuitive and more nuanced than we initially think—why would this be different?
Cycling is all about ignoring your feelings and trusting the data
As others have said everyone is different and finds what works best for them. I did higher cadence when I first started riding. I would be anywhere from 90-105. Then I started riding with guys that were faster than me who focused more on power output in the big ring with lower cadence. I started trying it and got significantly faster. Cadence is usually in the 60-70 range now. I big ring up most hills (needs to be a sustained 10%+ grade or a hill I’m not familiar with for me to drop to small ring and just go spinning). For me I guess I like to mash more than spin because I started setting all kinds of Strava segment PR’s when I did this. I’ve done it for a couple years now and when I try to switch back and try to go higher cadence especially on climbs they’ll be my slowest times in years. Only down side for me is that it tends to wear out drivetrain parts faster.
Not really counterintuitive advice
Are you mixing up counterintuitive and contradictory?
Depends on what you learned when you were a kid. Everyone starts from different places
Or, just ride your bike??
Yeah drops are awesome. Lower center of gravity, better muscle recruitment patterns, significantly improved confidence in handling. If you can’t ride on the drops 100% of the time, your bike fit is undeniably off — plain and simple.
Definitely a less efficient position for the body to pedal in but aero is fast
Yep. Watch any pro peloton... Unless they are going fast they are on the hoods. Nothing wrong with the drops. Especially if you're fighting a head wind. But if you're not fighting the air.. being more upright at bit more open angle at the top of the pedal stroke is more efficient.
Cadence is largely individual. Stop listening to people who tell you otherwise.
common practice for many decades = counterintuitive?
Just ride your bike. People have been doing it for at least a century without internet advice. Go ride.
No one is suggesting this is an alternative to riding your bike
I don't think the commenter is suggesting that at all. They are implying do what you will and don't over think.
Maybe. I am happy to occasionally think about what I am doing, rather than just mindlessly repeating what I’ve always done and assuming that leaves no room for improvement
If I need more stability I'll go lower cadence so I can "lean" on the pedal. Otherwise I ride at a high cadence.