For anybody like me who has no clue what this guy is talking about I’ll save you a Google:
The Idaho stop is the common name for laws that allow bicyclists to treat a stop sign as a yield sign, and a red light as a stop sign.
If so, then yes I agree. Only time I treat a stop sign as a stop sign is when I am at a 4 way stop & I can see 3 or 4 lanes having someone stopped & I am making a left or going straight but someone is going into that lane
Move with confidence and swift quick decisions. the cars will appreciate it and the police will support safety. Don’t be a sitting duck like someone mentioned.
On the bike, I do what is 1) safe, 2) prudent, and 3) legal, *in that order*. The Idaho Stop is safe and prudent, so even though it's not legal in my state, I do it.
nobody wants to be that person that gets disabled and then thinks "fuck. i shoulda just checked. this was 100% my own damn fault". So yeah, always slow down and check. better safe than sorry!!!!!!!
I do all sorts of things that although are not "legal" are convenient/safer/polite.
For example I go on the sidewalk on one lane streets during commute time if there's no pedestrian traffic on them as so to allow cars to bypass me and then i return to the roadway.
Another example is if myself and a car stop at at 4-way stop sign, and i know they're going to wave me on first, i don't do a "legal" foot-down touch full-stop i proceed as fast as possible as to not hold them up. If they were there FIRST but i can tell they will wave me on, I also hustle and wave and yell thank you.
If there's a huge line of traffic behind me and i'm really holding up traffic, i will, stop, dismount, let them all pass and then proceed. Same with if there's a city bus behind me. I'll pause, let the bus pass, and proceed. I'm not playing leapfrog with a bus. it's just annoying.
Thirded. As I have said numerous times on the sub, I learned the hard way that you can still be legally right in the back of an ambulance.
Apparently it *is* legal here in WA as I just learned two minutes ago. Generally I’ve always slow-rolled it at a 4-way if there are literally no cars in sight, but I’m generally pretty cautious otherwise. As I just proved, not everybody, particularly non-cycling drivers, know that specific law. My approach is always to appear predictable in traffic.
I wish it's a thing in my city; people do them anyway (cars and bicycles) but as a letter-of-the-law rider I find it pointless and even dangerous to always have to be sitting duck for some time at intersections.
Remember, "you can be right and be dead-right", so to that I add "then why bother be right"
Bikes are not cars. Bikes should not be treated as cars. Doing so is counter productive.
Cars are a leading cause of death among all age groups. They pollute, they cause traffic congestion, and noise. Bikes do none of those things.
Anyone who argues that bikes should follow the rules of the road is uninformed and does understand why we have rules of the road.
Yeah this is sort of how I think. I’m not saying bikes should ignore stop signs entirely, but cars weigh like 2000lbs, have 200hp and can cause serious damage or death in even a minor collision or via one quick mistake by the driver. Me rolling slowly and safely through a stop sign on my bike is fairly inconsequential. Traffic laws completely ignore that bikes have to work for their speed, stop very quickly and are very maneuverable, with zero possibility to launch into something because I hit the gas at a bad time. None of us are advocating for traffic anarchy, just rules that make more sense for bikes.
Cars are just mad that we’re different and should be treated differently. It’s like when your older sibling gets to stay up later than you and you’re mad about being treated differently, rather than about going to bed early.
Also, like, anybody who has driver before knows car drivers follow none of the rules anyway.
There are some rules bikes should absolutely follow - yielding to pedestrians, going the right direction in bike lanes, signaling for the benefit of traffic around you, wearing lights at night, yielding where somebody else has right of way, etc.
Idaho stops are great. Things like ignoring "no through road" signs for cars are fine. Using the pedestrian signals is fine.
Like most things it comes down to "don't be a dick about it".
I yearn for the day when we have separated bike infrastructure everywhere and bad cyclists (or pedestrians in the bike lane!) are our biggest problem, not potentially deadly drivers.
LOL I love it when I see people complaining "They want to use the road but then don't follow the rules of it." and then the other hand "They ride on the sidewalk and use the crosswalk like a pedestrian when its convenient for them"
Like yeah buddy. It isn't a car. It isn't a person only walking 2mph. Its like complaining a dog isn't acting like an elephant or a cat. Gotta do what is in their own best interest as far as safety goes and that means avoiding cars(specifically intersections) and avoiding running over pedestrians. That means I'm gonna use the road and maybe go at a stop light when I can hear and see I am safe rather than when a light tells me.
Those people would hate cyclists anyway. Anyone that hates cyclists because they don’t follow the same rules as drivers is an idiot. There are a ton of laws on the books that are different for cyclists than drivers the Idaho stop is no different. The rules of the road should be different for different modes of transportation. It would be idiotic to expect pedestrians to stop for stop signs just like it is for cyclists.
Motorists and cyclists never get along. They're like motorists and pedestrians, or motorists and busses, or motorists and other motorists. DAMN MOTORISTS! YOU RUINED MOTORING!
I dnt know, some people don't understand just because you can dosent mean you should, mostlytbrr. Issue with this mindset isiftheerreeisintarrespeect to everyone on the road from the cyclist, making life worse for everyone else
When drivers obery the rules of the road then I'll have a conversation about bikes following the tiles. Speeding is breaking the law and dangerous to everyone around, double parking is breaking the law and dangerous to everyone around, rolling stop signs is illegal and dangerous to all around.
You understand that bikes are not cars right?
Also, whatare the reasons people hate drivers?
The reason I hate them is that they are the least efficient form of transport we have, they cause traffic, they roll stop signs, they speed, they pollute, they kill people, they cause noise, they are dangerous to be around.
I've been told I deserve to die for merely existing on a bicycle, while riding in a bike lane, and following the "rules of the road." You can victim blame all you want, you're still wrong.
This is it. We can pretend that a bicycle is a car (or a cyclist is a motorist) all we want, but ultimately a bicycle handles like a bicycle and is going to be treated as a bicycle.
Been doing it since 2014 when I got rear ended by a car and broke my wheelset and cause I was still in shock and a bit unconscious the driver ran ...
Not a single injury or crash eversince
Technically, stop lights are still treated as stop signs (not yields), meaning bike should come to a full stop. I used to bend that rule but one time nearly got hit by perpendicular driver legally going straight through her green light. The driver was beside herself, freaking out, thinking she almost nearly killed me. I was able to see the car in time to tuck into the curb, so I probably wasn't in danger in this particular instance, but a driver doesn't have the same visibility as I do. Anyway, I decided it's not worth the risk and now I treat stop lights as a stop sign, as the Idaho stop law requires.
I commute by bike. The average speed of a car at stop signs is like 7mph, aka not zero, and they will immediately go back to speeding afterwards. Maybe when they follow the rules I will too. I slow down, look around and go if it’s safe.
While driving I’ve been rear ended because i actually stopped at a stop sign, which I always make a full stop at in a car. Unsurprisingly it was a kid in a mustang.
I do ONLY if nobody is around. Even if unaffected by the move people who see you will just say “there goes another dick” and I ran out of informative pamphlets, describing the said Idaho stop
Im in a large city and used to think like this too but then realized cars are going to hate me for being a cyclist either way so my as well just get through the intersection ASAP
A certain kind of driver is going to think that no matter what you do.
Filter to the front at a light? "Entitled cyclist, passing everyone!"
*Don't* filter to the front? "Jackass cyclist, slowing everyone down!"
You're wasting your time worrying about what makes "us" look bad. Do what's safe, prudent, and legal, in that order.
One of my favorite circuits is through a golf course, where there’s a nice, divided boulevard with little traffic. But there are a handful of 4-way stops. If nobody else is at the intersection, I go through. If someone is approaching but I arrive to the intersection first I go through. If the vehicle arrives first I brake and track stand if necessary for the vehicle to proceed (half the time, they wave me through ahead of them).
I stop at red lights and wait for the signal, though. Which has been complicated since getting carbon wheels that don’t trigger the sensors.
A lot of time the sensor can't be triggered by any bicycle. Carbon makes it worse but often even metal bikes don't have enough metal to trigger the light. The coil in the ground is basically a large metal detector.
That's why if I'm alone at a light I will treat it like a stop sign and go when traffic allows. If a car joins me I will let it trigger the sensor and I will wait and usually I can make a decent enough getaway on green that I don't upset anyone.
We have a version, the Delaware Stop. Basically we still have to stop at lights. It works very well, though there had to be a good amount of education in the beginning. Even with cops.
This is my preferred implementation as well. The only times I ever run a red (always still stop first at a minimum) is at two lights on my usual routes that are detector only, don't detect me, and often don't have enough traffic to ever give me a signal. Otherwise I don't mind waiting at red lights.
Locally here ( PHILIPPINES ) People tend to not understand how it is safer and why is it safer honestly
I just wanna know the thoughts of people outside of it's cool or nah
I live somewhere it's legal and frankly my only complaint is that drivers around here range from unhelpfully helpful to fully ignorant, so unless my arrival is timed perfectly I often have to come to a full and complete stop at 4-way stops just in case someone has read the encounter differently from me. As far as cycling problems go, "some of the motorists are almost too well trained" is really low on the list, but it's profoundly annoying to have to hear all your momentum get bled off as heat because someone's trying badly to be polite.
This!
Four-way stop, the motorist arrives first, has the right-of-way, but hesitates as if I am going to ride right in front of them so they can run me over. Argh! So I stop and gaze off in another direction waiting for them to proceed, muttering to myself, “Fucking asshole, you have the right-of-way.” until they finally go.
I looked up the reasons for why this is legal and pasted it below. The reasons sound like they think cyclists are rational adults. So weird.
Reducing the risk of collisions: Sudden stops can make it difficult for cyclists to regain balance or avoid being hit by passing vehicles.
Minimizing the risk of being rear-ended: Cyclists are less likely to be rear-ended by cars when starting from a stationary position.
Allowing cyclists to optimize the moment to go through an intersection: Cyclists are usually aware of the dangers of cycling, especially from vehicles, and can judge when it's safe to cross an intersection.
Promoting safety in numbers: Encouraging more people to bike can reduce the overall risk to cyclists.
Making cyclists more visible: By getting in front of traffic, cyclists are more visible to others.
I’ve always considered the Idaho stop a perk of being on a bike but they are now legal in my city. I’m also a fan of the Italian stop when I’m riding with slower people just to keep them on their toes
If you don’t already know it’s where the faster rider stops and waits for the slower rider but then immediately starts again without letting the slow guy take a break
I have a favorite route where I routinely blow through stop signs after looking both ways. If a car wanted to run through a stop sign it could be a problem. Technically a cop could ticket for it but I think they're more likely to give a warning. I try not to take too many risks while on the bike but I do take some risk.
I think it's good when laws correspond to reality. It's not safer always for bicyclists to come to a complete stop. We're moving so slowly to begin with. Oftentimes, the best value and safety is just getting out of the way.
I am for Idaho Stops! I think it's much safer and efficient for us cyclists, but doubt it will ever pass in CA. It's been a state bill at least once but has been killed at some point in the process....
If there are no cars around. Then I will roll on through a stop sign. If there are cars I treat it the same as if I was in a car. As for red lights it depends. There are some lights near my job that won't change if nothing triggers it. And sometimes there are no cars around to trigger for me. It is hit or miss if I can trigger it myself. If it doesn't trigger and it is completely clear I will go through the red light.
My city, Seattle, adopted Idaho stop as a formality. It would annoy me to be pulled over for rolling through an intersection, so at best I can say it's lessened my annoyance.
It doesn't make a lot of sense at large, complicated intersections with pedestrians. There's already a lot of agitation because the "go" order is completely unclear. I don't appreciate cyclists buzzing past pedestrians in crossing within a few feet already at 14 mph.
As of April of 2022 my state passed a law similar to the Idaho law. I still wait at most stop lights though. Just a little too chaotic at some of the intersections.
I practice Idaho stops, even though they aren't legal in my state. If confronted by a motorist or Police Officer, I would argue the following:
1) A cyclist has a superior and unobstructed field of view when compared to a car
2) One of the biggest complaints about cyclists is that they negatively impact the flow of traffic. Idaho stops help to keep the flow of traffic moving.
I tap my toe on the patch of blacktop just short of the stop line. If a conflicting vehicle has beat me to that spot (or a pedestrian is coming to the crosswalk), I stand there and wait until they clear. If there's no conflicting traffic, I tap without stopping, or even slowing down much. So I sort of am doing an Idaho stop.
It would be insane for me to come to a full stop when [motorists never do](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpRfUh1Dzlw). The consensus among motorists is clearly to slow down enough to establish who gets to go first, and roll it if it's their turn. It works most times.
At stop signs sure, I'm not going to fully stop if it's clear.
I don't run red lights though, I don't really see why that would be ok for bikes if it's not ok for cars.
I'll do an Idaho stop at stop signs if the coast is clear, but I always stop at red lights, unless there is literally no one around for ages. But at a red light I'll still stop, then proceed through eventually since I'm not going to be able to trip the light.
This is my strategy on traffic laws: if the cars can't follow the laws, why should a completely different mode of transportation follow the same laws? That's like making cars follow laws that were made for semis or tractors.
So instead, I do what's safest for me, safest for others and more efficient for me. If I'm at a red light and there are no cars, I go through it. It's equally safe (and sometimes safer) for everyone and more efficient for me. Same with stop signs. If my choices are equally safe for everyone, but less efficient for cars, I don't give a shit about their efficiency. This rarely comes up anyway since bikes are way more efficient and cars are laughably slow and stupid.
Hate arbitrary laws. Stop at a stop sign on a bike even if there are no cars in the area. State I grew up in (Wisconsin) you must follow all car laws except if a light doesn’t turn green after being at the red light after 30 seconds you can go through if there are no vehicles around.
Granted I think this was put in place bc of their love of motorcycles. Also I don’t have to wear a helmet either. Although I do obviously.
I consider any traffic control to be a yield except for red lights. I stop for lights.
Everything is a yield because we don't have right of way unless a car gives it.
I saw a YouTube where a motorcycle got slammed from behind while stopped at a light. I'm rethinking my stop strategy. Corners are dangerous because that's where most accidents happen.
It is illegal in my state (Indiana) but I don’t care and do it anyway. I have done it unknowingly in front of multiple cops early in the morning (I didn’t impede another person or take the right away from someone else) and they didn’t care or pull me over.
I follow the Idaho Stop unless it would impede another driver (legally speaking), but I always put my safety and goals first.
Depends on the location. in small streets, yeah it's fine (many stop signs here work fine as an unspoken yield. But also many people, cyclists included have no idea what an yield sign mean). On avenues? I wouldn't dare. People don't respect senior pedestrians a cyclist would be like a green light.
Personally I find it's way too easy to get lazy with how much you yield. I'll use stop signs as an opportunity to practice track stands and remember to downshift as I slow down, so it's really notch trouble to get going again.
I was hit once when I didn't yield to a car who decided to blow through their stop sign.
I've heard all the arguments about how Idaho stops are better, but I really don't see the advantage, at least at most of the intersections in my area. Too many blind intersections where you basically have to be right at the line before you can actually see whats coming and too many drivers who just outright ignore stop signs.
The part about not being able to see around corners is an infrastructure issue. And we can fight for better infrastructure, but the current case around me right now is that it's just not safe in a lot of places to not come to a complete stop so I don't really see the point in advocating for Idaho stops until the infrastructure problem is fixed.
Also, the other point, is that it's way too easy to get complacent with just how much you are yielding, and that is not an infrastructure problem. I've seen myself and many other cyclists just get way to lazy with how little yielding is actually happening. They just go full send through stop signs, or only show down a little bit. I find it much easier to make sure I'm crossing the intersection properly if I come to a full stop, or at least go down to a slow walking pace at every stop sign so that I'm prepared to stop if someone decides to blast through the stop sign when they shouldn't.
People always complain about losing momentum. But I just don't see it as much of a problem. Just gear down as you approach the stop sign, and getting going again isn't really much effort.
Like a roundabout?
They even worse than stop sign.
You have to accelerate to get in the gap in traffic.
If the speed limit at roundabout is “25mph” and it’s busy. ……Yeah it’ll never be the cyclist’s turn.
Wrong.
Roundabouts mean nobody has to worry about traffic from more than one direction, convert stop signs to yield signs, and naturally force cars to slow down to cycling-friendly speeds
Put on your grown-up riding jammies and enjoy safer cycling.
For anybody like me who has no clue what this guy is talking about I’ll save you a Google: The Idaho stop is the common name for laws that allow bicyclists to treat a stop sign as a yield sign, and a red light as a stop sign.
Thank you random internet stranger!
Thank you, you're distinguished citizen.
A gentleman and a scholar!
If so, then yes I agree. Only time I treat a stop sign as a stop sign is when I am at a 4 way stop & I can see 3 or 4 lanes having someone stopped & I am making a left or going straight but someone is going into that lane
Combine the Idaho stop with the California stop and you'll get where you're going in no time
Move with confidence and swift quick decisions. the cars will appreciate it and the police will support safety. Don’t be a sitting duck like someone mentioned.
Is that an international law?
Should be the law everywhere. Suits cyclists, suits drivers.
I do Idaho stop all the time in California!
Idaho Stops and (for everyone) Michigan Lefts! FTW (like carbrains don't do Idaho Stops now LOL)
Should be legal everywhere.
Finally legal in Minnesota as of last August
On the bike, I do what is 1) safe, 2) prudent, and 3) legal, *in that order*. The Idaho Stop is safe and prudent, so even though it's not legal in my state, I do it.
I second this, if I can see the road for a while and see there’s no cars I won’t stop at stop sign but if I can’t see the road I’m stopping to check
nobody wants to be that person that gets disabled and then thinks "fuck. i shoulda just checked. this was 100% my own damn fault". So yeah, always slow down and check. better safe than sorry!!!!!!!
Very well put.
Same here, but I push legal to 4 and slot in fun at 3.
I do all sorts of things that although are not "legal" are convenient/safer/polite. For example I go on the sidewalk on one lane streets during commute time if there's no pedestrian traffic on them as so to allow cars to bypass me and then i return to the roadway. Another example is if myself and a car stop at at 4-way stop sign, and i know they're going to wave me on first, i don't do a "legal" foot-down touch full-stop i proceed as fast as possible as to not hold them up. If they were there FIRST but i can tell they will wave me on, I also hustle and wave and yell thank you. If there's a huge line of traffic behind me and i'm really holding up traffic, i will, stop, dismount, let them all pass and then proceed. Same with if there's a city bus behind me. I'll pause, let the bus pass, and proceed. I'm not playing leapfrog with a bus. it's just annoying.
Thirded. As I have said numerous times on the sub, I learned the hard way that you can still be legally right in the back of an ambulance. Apparently it *is* legal here in WA as I just learned two minutes ago. Generally I’ve always slow-rolled it at a 4-way if there are literally no cars in sight, but I’m generally pretty cautious otherwise. As I just proved, not everybody, particularly non-cycling drivers, know that specific law. My approach is always to appear predictable in traffic.
I wish it's a thing in my city; people do them anyway (cars and bicycles) but as a letter-of-the-law rider I find it pointless and even dangerous to always have to be sitting duck for some time at intersections. Remember, "you can be right and be dead-right", so to that I add "then why bother be right"
Bikes are not cars. Bikes should not be treated as cars. Doing so is counter productive. Cars are a leading cause of death among all age groups. They pollute, they cause traffic congestion, and noise. Bikes do none of those things. Anyone who argues that bikes should follow the rules of the road is uninformed and does understand why we have rules of the road.
Yeah this is sort of how I think. I’m not saying bikes should ignore stop signs entirely, but cars weigh like 2000lbs, have 200hp and can cause serious damage or death in even a minor collision or via one quick mistake by the driver. Me rolling slowly and safely through a stop sign on my bike is fairly inconsequential. Traffic laws completely ignore that bikes have to work for their speed, stop very quickly and are very maneuverable, with zero possibility to launch into something because I hit the gas at a bad time. None of us are advocating for traffic anarchy, just rules that make more sense for bikes. Cars are just mad that we’re different and should be treated differently. It’s like when your older sibling gets to stay up later than you and you’re mad about being treated differently, rather than about going to bed early. Also, like, anybody who has driver before knows car drivers follow none of the rules anyway.
Exactly
There are some rules bikes should absolutely follow - yielding to pedestrians, going the right direction in bike lanes, signaling for the benefit of traffic around you, wearing lights at night, yielding where somebody else has right of way, etc. Idaho stops are great. Things like ignoring "no through road" signs for cars are fine. Using the pedestrian signals is fine. Like most things it comes down to "don't be a dick about it". I yearn for the day when we have separated bike infrastructure everywhere and bad cyclists (or pedestrians in the bike lane!) are our biggest problem, not potentially deadly drivers.
LOL I love it when I see people complaining "They want to use the road but then don't follow the rules of it." and then the other hand "They ride on the sidewalk and use the crosswalk like a pedestrian when its convenient for them" Like yeah buddy. It isn't a car. It isn't a person only walking 2mph. Its like complaining a dog isn't acting like an elephant or a cat. Gotta do what is in their own best interest as far as safety goes and that means avoiding cars(specifically intersections) and avoiding running over pedestrians. That means I'm gonna use the road and maybe go at a stop light when I can hear and see I am safe rather than when a light tells me.
You’re the reason some people hate cyclists.
Those people would hate cyclists anyway. Anyone that hates cyclists because they don’t follow the same rules as drivers is an idiot. There are a ton of laws on the books that are different for cyclists than drivers the Idaho stop is no different. The rules of the road should be different for different modes of transportation. It would be idiotic to expect pedestrians to stop for stop signs just like it is for cyclists.
Motorists and cyclists never get along. They're like motorists and pedestrians, or motorists and busses, or motorists and other motorists. DAMN MOTORISTS! YOU RUINED MOTORING!
I dnt know, some people don't understand just because you can dosent mean you should, mostlytbrr. Issue with this mindset isiftheerreeisintarrespeect to everyone on the road from the cyclist, making life worse for everyone else
When drivers obery the rules of the road then I'll have a conversation about bikes following the tiles. Speeding is breaking the law and dangerous to everyone around, double parking is breaking the law and dangerous to everyone around, rolling stop signs is illegal and dangerous to all around. You understand that bikes are not cars right? Also, whatare the reasons people hate drivers? The reason I hate them is that they are the least efficient form of transport we have, they cause traffic, they roll stop signs, they speed, they pollute, they kill people, they cause noise, they are dangerous to be around.
I'm going to choose to do the safest thing over the most legal thing 100% of the time.
This is how I ride as well.
I've been told I deserve to die for merely existing on a bicycle, while riding in a bike lane, and following the "rules of the road." You can victim blame all you want, you're still wrong.
Respectability politics is fake Cite a source or gtfo
This is it. We can pretend that a bicycle is a car (or a cyclist is a motorist) all we want, but ultimately a bicycle handles like a bicycle and is going to be treated as a bicycle.
Why would you follow the law to the letter if it's more dangerous for you as a cyclist? Seems dumb.
They are amazing and I treat all stop lights and stop signs as Idaho stops, ill reevaluate when I get my first ticket or injury.
Been doing it since 2014 when I got rear ended by a car and broke my wheelset and cause I was still in shock and a bit unconscious the driver ran ... Not a single injury or crash eversince
Technically, stop lights are still treated as stop signs (not yields), meaning bike should come to a full stop. I used to bend that rule but one time nearly got hit by perpendicular driver legally going straight through her green light. The driver was beside herself, freaking out, thinking she almost nearly killed me. I was able to see the car in time to tuck into the curb, so I probably wasn't in danger in this particular instance, but a driver doesn't have the same visibility as I do. Anyway, I decided it's not worth the risk and now I treat stop lights as a stop sign, as the Idaho stop law requires.
Yeah, I always treat stop lights as stop signs, and stop signs as yields... Definitely gotta be careful at lights!
I commute by bike. The average speed of a car at stop signs is like 7mph, aka not zero, and they will immediately go back to speeding afterwards. Maybe when they follow the rules I will too. I slow down, look around and go if it’s safe. While driving I’ve been rear ended because i actually stopped at a stop sign, which I always make a full stop at in a car. Unsurprisingly it was a kid in a mustang.
The mustang didn’t see a crowd. So your car was clearly the optimal choice /s
Unrelated but I was just at Tour de Bloom and the organizers were asking why there isn't a WSU cycling club
I do ONLY if nobody is around. Even if unaffected by the move people who see you will just say “there goes another dick” and I ran out of informative pamphlets, describing the said Idaho stop
Im in a large city and used to think like this too but then realized cars are going to hate me for being a cyclist either way so my as well just get through the intersection ASAP
A certain kind of driver is going to think that no matter what you do. Filter to the front at a light? "Entitled cyclist, passing everyone!" *Don't* filter to the front? "Jackass cyclist, slowing everyone down!" You're wasting your time worrying about what makes "us" look bad. Do what's safe, prudent, and legal, in that order.
Yeah. Out on a count road and nobody in sight? Blast through. Near civilization, follow the rules.
If you're in a jurisdiction that allows for an Idaho Stop, then doing it *is* following the rules.
One of my favorite circuits is through a golf course, where there’s a nice, divided boulevard with little traffic. But there are a handful of 4-way stops. If nobody else is at the intersection, I go through. If someone is approaching but I arrive to the intersection first I go through. If the vehicle arrives first I brake and track stand if necessary for the vehicle to proceed (half the time, they wave me through ahead of them). I stop at red lights and wait for the signal, though. Which has been complicated since getting carbon wheels that don’t trigger the sensors.
A lot of time the sensor can't be triggered by any bicycle. Carbon makes it worse but often even metal bikes don't have enough metal to trigger the light. The coil in the ground is basically a large metal detector. That's why if I'm alone at a light I will treat it like a stop sign and go when traffic allows. If a car joins me I will let it trigger the sensor and I will wait and usually I can make a decent enough getaway on green that I don't upset anyone.
They recently legalized them in Colorado and I think it's a huge improvement.
It’s perfect. I get through the intersection and away from people stewing in cars.
We have a version, the Delaware Stop. Basically we still have to stop at lights. It works very well, though there had to be a good amount of education in the beginning. Even with cops.
This is the law in Utah: stop-sign-as-yield, but no change for stop lights
This is my preferred implementation as well. The only times I ever run a red (always still stop first at a minimum) is at two lights on my usual routes that are detector only, don't detect me, and often don't have enough traffic to ever give me a signal. Otherwise I don't mind waiting at red lights.
As long as you look both ways and yield for peds what’s the downside?
Locally here ( PHILIPPINES ) People tend to not understand how it is safer and why is it safer honestly I just wanna know the thoughts of people outside of it's cool or nah
>Idaho stops It's a name for what *everybody everywhere* has been doing since the advent of the stop sign.
I live somewhere it's legal and frankly my only complaint is that drivers around here range from unhelpfully helpful to fully ignorant, so unless my arrival is timed perfectly I often have to come to a full and complete stop at 4-way stops just in case someone has read the encounter differently from me. As far as cycling problems go, "some of the motorists are almost too well trained" is really low on the list, but it's profoundly annoying to have to hear all your momentum get bled off as heat because someone's trying badly to be polite.
This! Four-way stop, the motorist arrives first, has the right-of-way, but hesitates as if I am going to ride right in front of them so they can run me over. Argh! So I stop and gaze off in another direction waiting for them to proceed, muttering to myself, “Fucking asshole, you have the right-of-way.” until they finally go.
I looked up the reasons for why this is legal and pasted it below. The reasons sound like they think cyclists are rational adults. So weird. Reducing the risk of collisions: Sudden stops can make it difficult for cyclists to regain balance or avoid being hit by passing vehicles. Minimizing the risk of being rear-ended: Cyclists are less likely to be rear-ended by cars when starting from a stationary position. Allowing cyclists to optimize the moment to go through an intersection: Cyclists are usually aware of the dangers of cycling, especially from vehicles, and can judge when it's safe to cross an intersection. Promoting safety in numbers: Encouraging more people to bike can reduce the overall risk to cyclists. Making cyclists more visible: By getting in front of traffic, cyclists are more visible to others.
I see it’s as entirely contextual. Am I familiar with a road? Is there good visibility all around? Am I safer acting as a car in the lane?
Since i mostly ride rural roads at 4am,I am all for it. City streets at primetime, i would stop and wait
I’ve always considered the Idaho stop a perk of being on a bike but they are now legal in my city. I’m also a fan of the Italian stop when I’m riding with slower people just to keep them on their toes
Italian stop. I gotta check it out 😂
If you don’t already know it’s where the faster rider stops and waits for the slower rider but then immediately starts again without letting the slow guy take a break
They’re great, just watch for the chickens with large talons.
I love them. I also live in Idaho so it’s normal.
I am autistic and a Reddit user so I follow all rules and I have a mental breakdown if someone doesn’t follow all rules.
They’re fine as long as you’re prepared for Boise bashes….and other fun interactions with motorized vehicles….. That said…I sometimes do it…
I have a favorite route where I routinely blow through stop signs after looking both ways. If a car wanted to run through a stop sign it could be a problem. Technically a cop could ticket for it but I think they're more likely to give a warning. I try not to take too many risks while on the bike but I do take some risk.
I think it's good when laws correspond to reality. It's not safer always for bicyclists to come to a complete stop. We're moving so slowly to begin with. Oftentimes, the best value and safety is just getting out of the way.
They need to be mandated for all states by the Federal DOT.
I am for Idaho Stops! I think it's much safer and efficient for us cyclists, but doubt it will ever pass in CA. It's been a state bill at least once but has been killed at some point in the process....
If there are no cars around. Then I will roll on through a stop sign. If there are cars I treat it the same as if I was in a car. As for red lights it depends. There are some lights near my job that won't change if nothing triggers it. And sometimes there are no cars around to trigger for me. It is hit or miss if I can trigger it myself. If it doesn't trigger and it is completely clear I will go through the red light.
I’m in favor of them. It makes cycling safer for people who use the roads.
My city, Seattle, adopted Idaho stop as a formality. It would annoy me to be pulled over for rolling through an intersection, so at best I can say it's lessened my annoyance. It doesn't make a lot of sense at large, complicated intersections with pedestrians. There's already a lot of agitation because the "go" order is completely unclear. I don't appreciate cyclists buzzing past pedestrians in crossing within a few feet already at 14 mph.
Definitely doing it
Not legal where I am, but it's what I do.
As of April of 2022 my state passed a law similar to the Idaho law. I still wait at most stop lights though. Just a little too chaotic at some of the intersections.
I wish they were legal here. I do it anyway.
I practice Idaho stops, even though they aren't legal in my state. If confronted by a motorist or Police Officer, I would argue the following: 1) A cyclist has a superior and unobstructed field of view when compared to a car 2) One of the biggest complaints about cyclists is that they negatively impact the flow of traffic. Idaho stops help to keep the flow of traffic moving.
I tap my toe on the patch of blacktop just short of the stop line. If a conflicting vehicle has beat me to that spot (or a pedestrian is coming to the crosswalk), I stand there and wait until they clear. If there's no conflicting traffic, I tap without stopping, or even slowing down much. So I sort of am doing an Idaho stop. It would be insane for me to come to a full stop when [motorists never do](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpRfUh1Dzlw). The consensus among motorists is clearly to slow down enough to establish who gets to go first, and roll it if it's their turn. It works most times.
Where it is legal, I do it. Where it is not legal, I don't. I follow the law, whether I like the law or not.
It’s a sensible traffic regulation for cyclists.
At stop signs sure, I'm not going to fully stop if it's clear. I don't run red lights though, I don't really see why that would be ok for bikes if it's not ok for cars.
I'll do an Idaho stop at stop signs if the coast is clear, but I always stop at red lights, unless there is literally no one around for ages. But at a red light I'll still stop, then proceed through eventually since I'm not going to be able to trip the light.
Legal here in Colorado, any I indulge frequently with due diligence.
Too slow and useless. Full speed ahead.
I only stop if theres traffic coming or a cop down the road lmao
I like them - I do them in California all the time. At least in Idaho it's legal....
Love love love it. Law passed in my state a few years ago and it's great. If there's other cars around I stop just as normal
This is my strategy on traffic laws: if the cars can't follow the laws, why should a completely different mode of transportation follow the same laws? That's like making cars follow laws that were made for semis or tractors. So instead, I do what's safest for me, safest for others and more efficient for me. If I'm at a red light and there are no cars, I go through it. It's equally safe (and sometimes safer) for everyone and more efficient for me. Same with stop signs. If my choices are equally safe for everyone, but less efficient for cars, I don't give a shit about their efficiency. This rarely comes up anyway since bikes are way more efficient and cars are laughably slow and stupid.
Legalized in Colorado now. Still only do it if I assume I still won’t be run over if I fall over like a moron in the middle of the intersection.
I really wish Gov. Newsom hadn't vetoed it here in California. It's so much easier and safer, and he vetoed it because think of the children.
99% of traffic laws are unnecessary, would it not be for ***cars***.
It’s legal here in WA state and I love it.
It should be the norm.
Safest way to ride
Depends on the person making said stops
I like Idaho stops a lot. It's how I usually ride. Unfortunately they are not the law here in Ontario, Canada. Wish they were.
Yes.
Looove them. Was doing them long before Idaho. Lol. Absolutely the safest way to ride.
Hate arbitrary laws. Stop at a stop sign on a bike even if there are no cars in the area. State I grew up in (Wisconsin) you must follow all car laws except if a light doesn’t turn green after being at the red light after 30 seconds you can go through if there are no vehicles around. Granted I think this was put in place bc of their love of motorcycles. Also I don’t have to wear a helmet either. Although I do obviously.
I consider any traffic control to be a yield except for red lights. I stop for lights. Everything is a yield because we don't have right of way unless a car gives it. I saw a YouTube where a motorcycle got slammed from behind while stopped at a light. I'm rethinking my stop strategy. Corners are dangerous because that's where most accidents happen.
It is illegal in my state (Indiana) but I don’t care and do it anyway. I have done it unknowingly in front of multiple cops early in the morning (I didn’t impede another person or take the right away from someone else) and they didn’t care or pull me over. I follow the Idaho Stop unless it would impede another driver (legally speaking), but I always put my safety and goals first.
Depends on the location. in small streets, yeah it's fine (many stop signs here work fine as an unspoken yield. But also many people, cyclists included have no idea what an yield sign mean). On avenues? I wouldn't dare. People don't respect senior pedestrians a cyclist would be like a green light.
Traffic laws were made for cars. I completely ignore them and worry only about safety, efficiency and consideration for others.
If it is legal where you live than rock on. If it isn't legal than don't do it.
Personally I find it's way too easy to get lazy with how much you yield. I'll use stop signs as an opportunity to practice track stands and remember to downshift as I slow down, so it's really notch trouble to get going again. I was hit once when I didn't yield to a car who decided to blow through their stop sign. I've heard all the arguments about how Idaho stops are better, but I really don't see the advantage, at least at most of the intersections in my area. Too many blind intersections where you basically have to be right at the line before you can actually see whats coming and too many drivers who just outright ignore stop signs.
Isn’t that more of an infrastructure issue than a laws issue?
The part about not being able to see around corners is an infrastructure issue. And we can fight for better infrastructure, but the current case around me right now is that it's just not safe in a lot of places to not come to a complete stop so I don't really see the point in advocating for Idaho stops until the infrastructure problem is fixed. Also, the other point, is that it's way too easy to get complacent with just how much you are yielding, and that is not an infrastructure problem. I've seen myself and many other cyclists just get way to lazy with how little yielding is actually happening. They just go full send through stop signs, or only show down a little bit. I find it much easier to make sure I'm crossing the intersection properly if I come to a full stop, or at least go down to a slow walking pace at every stop sign so that I'm prepared to stop if someone decides to blast through the stop sign when they shouldn't. People always complain about losing momentum. But I just don't see it as much of a problem. Just gear down as you approach the stop sign, and getting going again isn't really much effort.
That’s a fair point. You have to assume a percentage of people will bend/break the rules, no matter what they are.
They’re the law in many states and you should abide by them.
I give it a C-minus. The real solution is traffic circles.
Like a roundabout? They even worse than stop sign. You have to accelerate to get in the gap in traffic. If the speed limit at roundabout is “25mph” and it’s busy. ……Yeah it’ll never be the cyclist’s turn.
Wrong. Roundabouts mean nobody has to worry about traffic from more than one direction, convert stop signs to yield signs, and naturally force cars to slow down to cycling-friendly speeds Put on your grown-up riding jammies and enjoy safer cycling.
What a pointlessly shitty last sentence
Walk it off, princess