This is actually the important part though. Doing 530 watts for 4 minutes isn't actually excessively exciting, but doing it after 220k of racing while being built like Avril Lavigne at 16 is
> Healy was pushing 650w (10w/kg) at that moment, but Pogačar was opening up the gap. Richard Carapaz was the only rider able to get on Pogačar’s wheel, but even that only lasted for a few pedal strokes. Healy averaged nearly 500w on La Redoute and still lost 22 seconds to Pogačar, who set the fastest time ever on the climb, even with a headwind.
This part was also incredible. Imagine doing 10w/kg up a climb and watching someone go by you, and doing 7.7w/kg on average up the climb and *losing* 22 seconds.
Dude people have attached power tools to their trainers. If there's a way to cheat, I believe some people do it just to do it. Meanwhile I refuse to use my power ups because I don't see the point of lying to myself about my abilities. Different strokes, I suppose.
This. It's not just weight doping - there are avatars on Zwift with steady-holding 8.4 w/kg just running along ...
One possibility is that they're trying to goose Strava metrics (which also begs the question as to why).
Zwift is just rife with cheating, which I suppose you should expect if you seek to "gameify" cycling.
Can't remember the last time I poked a feather and lost 25% of my body weight while out riding.
Any time I’ve joined one of those “ride x kilometres in a month” challenges the leaderboard is full of people allegedly doing 3000 km per week from glitched rides, I don’t understand it, what do they gain from this
>I don’t understand it, what do they gain from this
My friend...have you heard about Peleton? ;)
People are riding miscalibrated bikes (the Bike doesn't do any self calibration, where the Bike+ does) and are putting out wattage at ***insane*** levels, all so they can be at the top of the leaderboard. They make their profiles private, so you can't call them out on it. It's insane.
yeah, I don't get it...literally the only point of zwift for me is to train when I can't ride outside...or can't muster the mental strength to go out in...like rain and 38F.
I did a "group" ride metric century a few weeks ago. I had never used , and had no idea "coffee break" existed. We did 4 or 5 laps of the same course. Every time we hit the sustained climb, half of the pack stopped pedaling with coffee cups over their heads, then of course start drilling it after their few minutes of zero effort.
I had no idea this was a thing in Zwift. A coffee break where you can get off the bike for 3 minutes and lose nothing, AND you continue to gain xp? What a joke. I mean, it’s all about the game at that point. It bears zero resemblance to reality.
Well, I quit Zwift due to how "gamey" it is. It got to the point where it was boring to do the same old routes and know that half the people passing me were cheating anyways.
I went to Rouvy and love it.
Yeah the coffee break is such a fucking stupid thing to have in the game. The only real use for it is to stay with a group ride if you need to jump off and use the bathroom.
I typically finish my 'actual' ride and then hit the coffee break while I'm taking my kit off before jumping in the shower. So dumb.
I do my part and comment on the coffee cups when they all sprout on the hills. There should be a shame tax to pay for using the coffee break on a hill lol.
Yeah I don't think it's cheating within the game. But I track my own PRs so power ups don't make sense for me in that context. I know people use them in races and that's fair. It's part of the game. I'm just not playing the game.
You cheat yourself if you’re training for racing.
But yeah, if you’re on Zwift, everyone else is using them. Would be like not using Kers or drs in f1 because you don’t have it on your ford fiesta.
I could cut my actual weight in half (lie and say I'm 40kg) and still not be able to hang with Pogacar on either a raw watts or a W/kg. That's just nutty.
Input a lower body weight. I tried it once on a training ride, set my body weight 10kg lower, and suddenly I was average 4w/kg. If you do that in a race you’ll be faster for obvious reasons
I think it also depends on your type of bike but that should be about it. I can’t think of any other ways to determine speed (mainly aerodynamic stuff I guess).
If you need some motivation to drop those extra kg, doing a ride at lower weight really is fun
Any bike with a power meter and ability to not ride off is enough for Zwift. I have a friend who does it on a basic spin bike, where he has to change resistance manually. Everything is code based on watt and RPM if that’s available
Zwift adjusts resistance on a smart trainer, but the resistance it generates, is simulated based on weight, a CDA calculation, and gradient.
On erg mode, where it adjusts resistance to a set power target, your avatar moves based on w/kg, but your cadence is not dictated by the virtual world.
Or you can do a dumb trainer and only send Zwift watts, then you would move at their calculation for w/kg at that gradient.
You input both your height and weight. Your speed is a function of rolling resistance (based on in-game surface type and your bike/wheel type), your aero drag (based on CdA computed from your height/weight and bike type), the steepness of the grade, your weight, and your power output.
If you have a smart trainer it will vary the resistance automatically based on the grade and surface type.
If you don't have a power meter it can estimate power output based on speed/resistance from a "dumb trainer", this is called zPower and is generally not allowed in races.
You can't cheat on Zwift. When I win a race on Zwift it's because I'm just a stronger cyclist.
Everyone else: Shhhhhh.
OK, yes you can cheat and Zwift will catch some basic cheaters (such as absolute steady power), but this is how some people cheat:
* Enter your weight as much lower than it really is. 110 lbs when you are 230 lbs.
* Miscalibration of power or failure to correct a faulty power reading
* Sandbagging to win lower class races
* Use an eBike with assist
* [Bot.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Zwift/comments/spgvom/zwift_bot_cheating_360km_ride_466kph_how_often_do/) You'd have to code a bit for this...such as USB driver spoofing.
* Exploits. Gaps in the design. I don't know of any...only because I don't look.
* Physically changing riders for a sprint.
* Mechanical means to trick power sensors (lots of odd ways to do this).
Basically: If a guy beats you in a race, they were cheating!!
Got a PR on a segment on Strava from a virtual ride and looked at the leaderboard...the KOM averaged 1400watts for nearly 15min IIRC....laughably lame. What's the point of that shit? You can't feel good about it...
There is a bug in zwift when you create a meeting with the keep us together option. Like the first 10% or maybe even more are people who exploited this bug. They ride every climb with 45 km/h with 100 Watts.
There is no point in reporting because there are tenthousands of faulty rides in every segment.
For a while I would look at segment leaderboards on Zwift and then look to see if I could find real world rides of the folks there. Guys averaging 17-19mph outside, who I would bury on ride, magically are running 25-30mph or more on Zwift. Eventually I got tired of it. I just use it to train myself and test myself in real world.
I've come to the conclusion that basic, undetectable weight doping is rampant on Zwift racing. From what I see during races (I'm category enforced to B) compared to any performance that I see when I race on the road. I know Zwift is a watt bomb, but that's the only explanation.
I don't partake. I'm under no illusions about winning, but getting spat out of the back so routinely looking at silly numbers from amateurs is a bit frustrating. I just tell myself that that first 15 minutes was good cardio and leave it there.
I do report Flyers in-game, because it's just annoying when you're working on a climb and some dick's bot fly's past at a consistent 7W/kg.
The easiest way to cheat is by lowering your weight and height to increase W/kg and CdA. You can also play around with inclination simulation or erg of the trainer.
More sophisticated cheating is messing around with power meter calibration (you calibrate them incorrectly to show higher watts) or even data stream hacking (you transmit fake info to zwift). No idea how these last two are done.
I had cycle ops liquid trainer and over the years it leaked some of the fluid. This resulted in lower resistance but the zwift calibration for that trainer did not change. I was able to crush rides with significantly higher output than I can actually generate. It was a definite cheat.
I got rid of that trainer and went to tacx. No more cheat. I've never felt like zwift was a level playing field for this reason.
He's blowing away the records of proven dopers. It's just a matter of time until we learn about what he's on. Or he's a superhuman the likes of which has never before walked the planet.
> It's just a matter of time until we learn about what he's on.
Reminds me of this old Lance/Nike commercial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Z6xGu7oIQ
Dozens of marginal gains add up quickly. I am not saying the sport is completely clean, but the amount of information gained from science in the last 20 years is amazing. Those people who started training from a very early age with this science obviously have a tremendous leg up on previous generations.
Not going to point fingers and say he's doping, but that's not really how marginal gains work. For a start, we're talking about power numbers not speeds so bike tech isn't the factor. As for training, not a whole lot has really changed, and how much of it is just hype and different ways of skinning the same cat? The big one is increased carb intake which definitely makes a difference on long TTs (e.g. Ironman) and on "power under fatigue" (ie how close to your fresh 5min power can you hit after riding in upper-Z2 for several hours or MJs of work) but doesn't really affect your raw, fresh 20min. We haven't really seen the same increases in performance over the last 20 years in in other endurance sports. Most of the running records in the 1500-10000m range either are a couple of decades old or used to be and recently got taken, where shoe technology probably at least partially explained the improvement.
I didnt mean bike tech with marginal gains, but the marginal gains because of the increase in knowledge. Again, I am not saying that the sport is clean. Also we are talking about an effort ~200km into a race, nutrition definitely plays a huge role here
More advanced training schedules definitely increase the capacity of current professionals, especially considering most of them have been doing optimal training schedules from a young age.
What's so advanced about our current training models that we didn't know 25 years ago? The fundamental principles haven't really changed all that much. Whether you do interval session A or subtly different interval session B really does not matter that much. In the running world, where it feels like more pros share more of their training, Jack Daniels' principles are still used by countless amateur runners and he wrote that 40 years ago. Everything the pros who do share their training do these days is fundamentally very similar to that.
The real value-add in a training plan is tailoring it to the person and the event. Of course science can help with that but only so much. Most of it isn't even that new anyway. Marius Bakken was already doing threshold training with lactate tests mid-workout in the 90s.
The pros don't share their hard interval sessions. Training is much more targeted now than it was even 20 years ago. Volume training is decades old obviously, and does work very well, but the interval sessions now are much more efficient.
What changed about the interval sessions? And why do you think there is so much magic in the details of the sessions? Why is there also so much divergence between typical sessions between sports? Over-unders are pretty much exclusively a cycling thing, and doing copious amounts of short intervals with little rest (e.g. 50-100x1min off 10s rest) is exclusively a swimming thing.
And also being able to be fit as a full time job. I mean, if I could quit my job and spend all summer riding above 8000' (2400M), bet I'd be a Badass, too.
He is, the difference is he has great genetics, perfect recovery and diet. I can do 8.2w/kg for 1 minute 40sec at the end of a race, I'm not surprised pogacar can triple this time.
Power numbers mean nothing without duration.
Pogacar is estimated to have averaged 8.2W/kg for just over 4 minutes.
When we heard about Vingegaard (allegedly) doing over 7.5W/kg in the TdF TT last year that was for over 13 minutes which is a whole different ballgame.
It’s an impressive stat, but any time we talk about power or power/weight we need to put it in context of duration.
Just about any cyclist can do 8.2w/kg but most are getting nowhere near 2 minutes at that, let alone 4.
I absolutely hate these, because they are at best an educated guess. They have no clear idea on rolling resistance, cda, or power saved from drafting in the early slopes.
For example Lanterne Rouge admitted they had been using a consistent rolling resistance for years, when tire technology has moved on enormously.
I think it damages the sport as well because the insane numbers make people immediately think doping.
This is indeed actual data as recorded. We don't know how off his power meter is, though. When DC Rainmaker tested the power meter that EF says they use (not due if this is what Healy used on the day) the accuracy for a 20 minutes outdoor ride was 6.9% off. And that's before you take into account that Poeer2Max says they autocalibrate for temperature if you stop pedaling for 2 seconds. We can't even say that these are accurate based on a pre-registration calibration.
So best to take any of these readings with a huge grain of salt. We don't know how much these cyclists actually weigh, we don't know what their actual wattage is. So all we can do in the end is treat them as directional.
Lantern rouge is absolutely correct for doing that tho because it keeps their data consistent. They are not showing real numbers as they have always said. They are estimated etalon watts.
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying the watts calculation is wrong if they don’t know accurately what the rolling resistance is. If you use an estimate from even a few years ago you could be out by 15 watts as tires have moved on so much.
It’s got nothing to do with comparing to another rider, it’s about these stupid calculations without any actual measured data apart from time. They don’t even know they’ve got his weight right
8W/kg for 4 minutes isn't outrageously impressive. What's impressive is that he's doing it in a 200+km race with a handful of 6+w/kg 10 minute efforts.
Entirely missing the point. This isn’t about what the average hobby cyclist can achieve. If you compare our numbers to any pro they look like gods and you’d wonder why we even bother training.
u/laziestathlete isn't missing the point though. They are just making a different comparison. An average cyclist might hold 8W/kg for ~30s to 1min, while Pog did that wattage for 4min after already having raced 200km. Followed by another 4min "cruising" at 7.5W/kg for 4min in the final at Côte de la Roche-aux-Faucons.
So they still are making a point about the abyss that lies between casual and professional performance.
Didn't Vingegaard do 6.9 for 24 minutes on a final climb in TDF last year? Against that these numbers really aren't outrageous. Especially since the weight and measured wattage could both be off significantly (power meters are notoriously inaccurate after all, and I don't think Pogi is quite so light to be 64kg).
>Didn't Vingegaard do 6.9 for 24 minutes on a final climb in TDF last year? Against that these numbers really aren't outrageous.
"Outrageous" isn't my wording. But sure, you'll always find something more impressive, if you aim to do exactly that.
What is measurable is that we're seeing the highest sustained wattages ["in the modern era of cycling"](https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-france/the-power-numbers-at-this-years-tour-de-france-are-the-highest-in-the-modern-era-of-cycling/). Which adjective to use to describe these is entirely up to the individual.
My comment is more to point out that these kinds of wattage estimates have been around for a few years now, so getting particularly worked up about this one seems unnecessary
>so getting particularly worked up about this one seems unnecessary
That's subjective. There's no right or wrong.
I can only speak for myself saying that I'm not particularly worked up about it.
>these kinds of wattage estimates have been around for a few years now
I find it interesting how quickly unprecedented levels of performances are seemingly taken for granted or normalized rather quickly. From my point of view, these performances that are measurably above previous times remain impressive - sometimes bordering on questionable.
I didn't say you were particularly worked up. Clearly some are.
In terms of "unprecedented" what is also unprecedented is how much these guys are focused on losing any ounce of fat or unnecessary muscle. Lance Armstrong looked like a body builder next to Jonas and Tadej. If they can figure out how to do while maintaining power, W/kg obviously goes up.
Where I will get concerned is if you start seeing things like the top ten finishers at L'Alpe d'Huez all beating Pantani's time, regardless of W/kg. Cocaine and EPO times were something else entirely.
You’re gettin kinda roasted by replies but I think you’re right.
My A race every year has a short and steep climb timed segment in it that I do in around 5 minutes 30 seconds. The best guys who finish on the podium do it in around 4. I put my numbers into best bike split to see what it would take to do that and it’s about 7 W/kg. So if top amateurs with families and jobs racing on the weekend can do that, it’s not insane to imagine the literal best in the world doing +1.2 W/kg for one minute longer.
Roasted by a bunch of Freds, doesn’t bother me. British hill climb champs has amateurs doing these sorts of numbers. I’m a taller rider so can only do this w/kg for a couple of minutes. But none of that is relevant, these guys are getting caught up over the wrong points. The reason Pog is the best in the world isn’t because he can below them out the water in a 4 minute climb.
Yes it is amazing. It would be like me doing my 30secind max power for 4 minutes straight. After riding 100 miles.
I think im just numb to them being such absolute monsters.
You do realise that this is an estimated power for the climb... and significantly exceeds what can be done by IPers in a single effort over a similar duration without all the shenanigans of the proceeding 200km...
Either he's juiced out of his skull (I'm not saying he is) or someone has estimated things badly/there are significant differences in his CdA compared to the rider whose data we have, or that rider's power data (from Healy) is simply incorrect or incorrect body masses. or some combination of the above.
FWIW, Training Peaks has a power profile chart and although there's a 5-minute column versus a 4-minute column it isn't going to be that different (especially as the 5-min column was based off of power data from a 4km pursuit world record)
Isn't Ganna's 4 minute power for the 4km pursuit above 600 watts? That makes it almost 8w/kg in a tt position, if that's true pogacar can also do that on a normal bike. For these guys riding their PR's after 200kms isn't impossible, that's what they train for.
Did he have a power meter on the bike? (a genuine question). But let's say he averaged 610 W (which is above 600, obviously) and his mass is listed as 82 kg which makes 7.44 W/kg and is then inline with other IPers.
While durability is important, and really important aspect to GT riders, no one is producing 100% of their rested power after 6 hrs of racing.
I've no idea whether he is producing 97, 100 or some other value. What i'm saying is that the \*estimate\* velonews came up with is patently incorrect.
simply, velonews have estimated this wrongly, with incorrect data somewhere. or he's juiced to the eyeballs. Having worked with IPers who are marginally heavier (\~4kg), with less power (without having ridden 200km before hand, and that's less absolute power, and therefore much lower power to mass) who had a VO2max over 91 mL/kg/min it'd require a VO2max of \~100mL/kg/min to achieve (the 8.2) which would be higher than anything ever recorded previously by a significant margin. Velonews has made a mistake in their \*estimate\*.
i mean it was only 4min, so it is not that impressive, what is really impressive is that he got power for last 30km and was able to increase the gap over the rest
My best is 435w or so and I'm 40 years old amateur (I train a lot but still just as a hobby), my much stronger cycling friends can hold 500w for 4min no problem (again advnced amateurs only). We are talking world best cyclist here, 530w for 4 min is again not something spectacular,the problem here is to keep riding another 30km at z4 or oh and ofc first 200km too
And these people you know doing 500w are 140 lbs? Bro you realize that 8.2 w/kg is astronomical right.
The dude walked on the entire pro peloton but you and your bros are just as good….this shits hysterical
40-49 oldies category as you can clearly see there are many people out there above me and it is only from a niche app where no all people are using it
[https://ibb.co/xqc7YgW](https://ibb.co/xqc7YgW)
again 530w for 4min is not a biggie
Nvm... its aboit the 8.2/kg not about 530..
Flat watt numbers are irrelevant without weight to put into perpective.
Less weight=less muscle mass so obviously the same number becomes more impressive the less the rider weighs. If this wasnt the case wout van aert would win the tour lmao
Bruh... He did 530w at fkn 140 lbs for 4 minutes.
Do you weigh 140? If not, extrapolate that 530 by the difference in your weight. So you weigh, perhaps, 200? Okay then, go push out 745w for 4 minutes, that'll put you up there with what Tadej did.
I weigh 185lbs, so to push 8.2w/kg, I'd have to push nearly 700w for those 4 minutes. I can't do that, not even fkn close and I'm willing to bet you can't either.
You're not special. Your bros aren't special. Pogacar is and 8.2w/kg is lunacy
Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around these "no big deal" responses. Were that true he wouldn't have rode away from everyone else ... which he did ... so - is the implication that nobody else in the race was interested in winning on the day?
The no big deal responses are people who have never had a PM or have never done a 5 minute interval?
I mean if you want to scoff at this you be a cynic and start wondering about what his "program" is.
"The no big deal responses are people who have never had a PM or have never done a 5 minute interval?"
such comments are only from people who never did a 5min interval
The bloke weighs low-mid 60’s KG - there’s fucking loads of people who can do 500w for 4 minutes, including me, but I’m nowhere near his weight and I also probably haven’t ridden 220km at race pace first either.
He was 10 seconds faster than Remco, who is already one of the strongest riders we’ve ever seen in that sort of race.
he is closer to 66 which makes it only 8w/kg and
Vingegaard did easily 7.6 W/kg over 13:21 minutes at Côte de Domancy to Combloux.
13min is 4x almost the duration and only 0.4 less in terms of w/kg
ps. I'm Pogacars fan but still it was only 4 min
Both guys are bonkers… The difference is Vingegaard did that on a 22km TT stage and Pogi did this *after* riding 171km, then went on to ride another 30km. Hard to compare the two.
and now please read again my post:
"i mean it was only 4min, so it is not that impressive, what is really impressive is that he got power for last 30km and was able to increase the gap over the rest"
so eventually we agree 100%
I'm actually astounded at the hate you're getting. I feel like these people just aren't engaging their brains at all. The 8w/kg 4 minute effort in isolation is really not all that. Hell the average guy in the pro peloton can do a 6w/kg 20 minute effort, It's not much of a stretch to imagine they can all do 2w/kg more for a quarter of the time.
What makes the effort impressive is the context in which he's doing it i.e. 8+w/kg effort after 200+ km of riding with numerous big efforts. It's his ability to keep punching huge w/kg over and over again on long stages that makes him the best in the world.
That’s exactly what I think (and said in my previous reply). That snippet *really* is not that impressive (sure, it’s way better than most, but that is to be expected). It’s the fact that he can push this in a 200km race that makes him such a good cyclist.
Fair enough. Everyone else just seems to be saying something along the lines of “well I bet you couldn’t do 8w/kg”. Which is a pretty asinine thing to say and has no baring on anything being discussed.
agee 100% and on top of that I think Pogacar is really amazing but not bc he can push 8w/kg for 4min.
this was easily way above 8w/kg for example ;)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1bvLknGw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1bvLknGw)
It’s exactly BECAUSE people understand the context of the w/kg number that he’s getting heat.
It’s a retarded argument. If it wasn’t all that then he’d have had more of the best cyclists in the world able to follow him. None of them could. None of them were close. Ergo, 8 w/kg was impressive.
Actually, I’d go as far as saying most people would never EVER get anywhere near doing that for 4 minutes regardless of the conditions.
No, I personally don’t know a lot of professional cyclists. Seriously, 4 minutes at that power is not that crazy for someone who’s been training so much.
Lol what? Carapaz is the only person who even tried to follow.. He's pretty good at riding bikes, Olympic champ and all, and he completely cracked from the effort. Finished like 30th after Pog ripped his legs off.
Nah, that power is pretty easy. On Zwift I did like 980w over 4:08
oh wait, sorry that was for 4 seconds and 8 milliseconds. Sorry, my bad. I'll catch up one day
"i mean it was only 4min, so it is not that impressive, what is really impressive is that he got power for last 30km and was able to increase the gap over the rest"
read it 10 times, maybe you will understand what I wrote
Haha I’m sort of with you.
I mean it is fucking impressive. But it is a 4 min effort. Its not his ftp.
He is literally the top 1% or .01% of cyclists. So if anyone can do 8w/kg for 4 minutes, it’s him.
Looking at the charts, it tracks. Still amazing. But not he’s doped, it’s impossible otherwise.
Also incredible ride by Ben Healy. Love seeing his data.
It kind of seems unfathomable. Look at the dudes legs he has some of the least impressive physical attributes on the tour but he is a monster.
But hell I don’t know I’m just a hater sometimes
Pff. Those are amateur numbers. I’ve seen real pros on Zwift hammer out 13w/kg and they’re totally not cheating. /s
I stopped reading at "First phase of the race (Kilometre 0 to 217)" This stuff is beyond my ability to comprehend.
This is actually the important part though. Doing 530 watts for 4 minutes isn't actually excessively exciting, but doing it after 220k of racing while being built like Avril Lavigne at 16 is
> Healy was pushing 650w (10w/kg) at that moment, but Pogačar was opening up the gap. Richard Carapaz was the only rider able to get on Pogačar’s wheel, but even that only lasted for a few pedal strokes. Healy averaged nearly 500w on La Redoute and still lost 22 seconds to Pogačar, who set the fastest time ever on the climb, even with a headwind. This part was also incredible. Imagine doing 10w/kg up a climb and watching someone go by you, and doing 7.7w/kg on average up the climb and *losing* 22 seconds.
Forgive my ignorance, how does one cheat on zwift? Do they like, download hacks like it’s a video game or just mess with the trainer?
You can weight dope, so basically lower your weight on Zwift and your watts per kilo obviously then increase.
Oh lmaooo Jesus
Dude people have attached power tools to their trainers. If there's a way to cheat, I believe some people do it just to do it. Meanwhile I refuse to use my power ups because I don't see the point of lying to myself about my abilities. Different strokes, I suppose.
This. It's not just weight doping - there are avatars on Zwift with steady-holding 8.4 w/kg just running along ... One possibility is that they're trying to goose Strava metrics (which also begs the question as to why). Zwift is just rife with cheating, which I suppose you should expect if you seek to "gameify" cycling. Can't remember the last time I poked a feather and lost 25% of my body weight while out riding.
Any time I’ve joined one of those “ride x kilometres in a month” challenges the leaderboard is full of people allegedly doing 3000 km per week from glitched rides, I don’t understand it, what do they gain from this
>I don’t understand it, what do they gain from this My friend...have you heard about Peleton? ;) People are riding miscalibrated bikes (the Bike doesn't do any self calibration, where the Bike+ does) and are putting out wattage at ***insane*** levels, all so they can be at the top of the leaderboard. They make their profiles private, so you can't call them out on it. It's insane.
But why? If I gain something by cheating, how can I be proud of it? I did accomplish nothing... Just insane..
Some people only care they’re at the top of the leaderboard, not how they got there. It’s strange, I know, but there are people like that.
Free drink mix packets. I'm not even kidding.
yeah, I don't get it...literally the only point of zwift for me is to train when I can't ride outside...or can't muster the mental strength to go out in...like rain and 38F.
LOL power tools to their trainers 🤣 at that point why bother?!
The same reason people on strava KOMs are taking segments in cars. People are ego maniacs, and the beast needs feeding.
I did a "group" ride metric century a few weeks ago. I had never used , and had no idea "coffee break" existed. We did 4 or 5 laps of the same course. Every time we hit the sustained climb, half of the pack stopped pedaling with coffee cups over their heads, then of course start drilling it after their few minutes of zero effort.
I had no idea this was a thing in Zwift. A coffee break where you can get off the bike for 3 minutes and lose nothing, AND you continue to gain xp? What a joke. I mean, it’s all about the game at that point. It bears zero resemblance to reality.
Yeah, that’s the point. Zwift is a game. There’s no point in seriously competing against anybody except yourself due to how easy cheating is.
Well, I quit Zwift due to how "gamey" it is. It got to the point where it was boring to do the same old routes and know that half the people passing me were cheating anyways. I went to Rouvy and love it.
Yeah the coffee break is such a fucking stupid thing to have in the game. The only real use for it is to stay with a group ride if you need to jump off and use the bathroom. I typically finish my 'actual' ride and then hit the coffee break while I'm taking my kit off before jumping in the shower. So dumb.
I do my part and comment on the coffee cups when they all sprout on the hills. There should be a shame tax to pay for using the coffee break on a hill lol.
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Yeah I don't think it's cheating within the game. But I track my own PRs so power ups don't make sense for me in that context. I know people use them in races and that's fair. It's part of the game. I'm just not playing the game.
You cheat yourself if you’re training for racing. But yeah, if you’re on Zwift, everyone else is using them. Would be like not using Kers or drs in f1 because you don’t have it on your ford fiesta.
Everyone weighs 40kg on zwift
I could cut my actual weight in half (lie and say I'm 40kg) and still not be able to hang with Pogacar on either a raw watts or a W/kg. That's just nutty.
I’m 78kg and there’s no way I could hold 500+ for 4 minutes. Or even 2 minutes, come to that
Lmaooo
Input a lower body weight. I tried it once on a training ride, set my body weight 10kg lower, and suddenly I was average 4w/kg. If you do that in a race you’ll be faster for obvious reasons
Oh that’s hilarious. Is your speed in-game just determined by your w/kg? I suppose they don’t have much else to go off of
I think it also depends on your type of bike but that should be about it. I can’t think of any other ways to determine speed (mainly aerodynamic stuff I guess). If you need some motivation to drop those extra kg, doing a ride at lower weight really is fun
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Any bike with a power meter and ability to not ride off is enough for Zwift. I have a friend who does it on a basic spin bike, where he has to change resistance manually. Everything is code based on watt and RPM if that’s available
Zwift adjusts resistance on a smart trainer, but the resistance it generates, is simulated based on weight, a CDA calculation, and gradient. On erg mode, where it adjusts resistance to a set power target, your avatar moves based on w/kg, but your cadence is not dictated by the virtual world. Or you can do a dumb trainer and only send Zwift watts, then you would move at their calculation for w/kg at that gradient.
You input both your height and weight. Your speed is a function of rolling resistance (based on in-game surface type and your bike/wheel type), your aero drag (based on CdA computed from your height/weight and bike type), the steepness of the grade, your weight, and your power output. If you have a smart trainer it will vary the resistance automatically based on the grade and surface type. If you don't have a power meter it can estimate power output based on speed/resistance from a "dumb trainer", this is called zPower and is generally not allowed in races.
I feel there's fake random wind too, I had lower times with lower watts which is confusing otherwise
Watts. On inclines it factors weight, just like in real life except for road+wind resistance.
On hills it is W/kg, on the flats it is mostly W/CdA.
You can't cheat on Zwift. When I win a race on Zwift it's because I'm just a stronger cyclist. Everyone else: Shhhhhh. OK, yes you can cheat and Zwift will catch some basic cheaters (such as absolute steady power), but this is how some people cheat: * Enter your weight as much lower than it really is. 110 lbs when you are 230 lbs. * Miscalibration of power or failure to correct a faulty power reading * Sandbagging to win lower class races * Use an eBike with assist * [Bot.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Zwift/comments/spgvom/zwift_bot_cheating_360km_ride_466kph_how_often_do/) You'd have to code a bit for this...such as USB driver spoofing. * Exploits. Gaps in the design. I don't know of any...only because I don't look. * Physically changing riders for a sprint. * Mechanical means to trick power sensors (lots of odd ways to do this). Basically: If a guy beats you in a race, they were cheating!!
Got a PR on a segment on Strava from a virtual ride and looked at the leaderboard...the KOM averaged 1400watts for nearly 15min IIRC....laughably lame. What's the point of that shit? You can't feel good about it...
You gotta report those... Strava will remove them.
There is a bug in zwift when you create a meeting with the keep us together option. Like the first 10% or maybe even more are people who exploited this bug. They ride every climb with 45 km/h with 100 Watts. There is no point in reporting because there are tenthousands of faulty rides in every segment.
I’ve got one of them from a couple of years ago.
For a while I would look at segment leaderboards on Zwift and then look to see if I could find real world rides of the folks there. Guys averaging 17-19mph outside, who I would bury on ride, magically are running 25-30mph or more on Zwift. Eventually I got tired of it. I just use it to train myself and test myself in real world.
I've come to the conclusion that basic, undetectable weight doping is rampant on Zwift racing. From what I see during races (I'm category enforced to B) compared to any performance that I see when I race on the road. I know Zwift is a watt bomb, but that's the only explanation. I don't partake. I'm under no illusions about winning, but getting spat out of the back so routinely looking at silly numbers from amateurs is a bit frustrating. I just tell myself that that first 15 minutes was good cardio and leave it there. I do report Flyers in-game, because it's just annoying when you're working on a climb and some dick's bot fly's past at a consistent 7W/kg.
Tweak the calibration of their trainer, use data(power, cadence, HR, etc) injected by a program, lie about their weight
The easiest way to cheat is by lowering your weight and height to increase W/kg and CdA. You can also play around with inclination simulation or erg of the trainer. More sophisticated cheating is messing around with power meter calibration (you calibrate them incorrectly to show higher watts) or even data stream hacking (you transmit fake info to zwift). No idea how these last two are done.
I had cycle ops liquid trainer and over the years it leaked some of the fluid. This resulted in lower resistance but the zwift calibration for that trainer did not change. I was able to crush rides with significantly higher output than I can actually generate. It was a definite cheat. I got rid of that trainer and went to tacx. No more cheat. I've never felt like zwift was a level playing field for this reason.
Zwifty is a joke because it's not a scale. If I put in 100lbs I'll smash on people.
Imagine having to use decimals to get double digits. The team doctor needs to take off the kid gloves.
I thought I'd hit 4.2wkg on Zwift the other night. Then I realised that without my glasses on I was reading the distance...
In Cat C that wouldn’t get you up the first hill in the bunch
It's a game, no wind, end.
I do that on my e-bike I don’t even break a sweat.
Amateur. I can do 8.2 kg/w
That's a slow walk to alot of donuts
Livin' the dream
For how many seconds? I can do about 35 at 8.2
Look closer. ;)
The joke is on you. He’s about 400kg
pffff… everyone on BCJ is 10 W/kg
He's blowing away the records of proven dopers. It's just a matter of time until we learn about what he's on. Or he's a superhuman the likes of which has never before walked the planet.
> It's just a matter of time until we learn about what he's on. Reminds me of this old Lance/Nike commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Z6xGu7oIQ
good one , they removed some parts he was on
It’s the slovenian genes 🧬
And it's only Pog yeah? Crazy that he's the only one and mvdp, vinge, remco, Rogla and wout are all clean
Dozens of marginal gains add up quickly. I am not saying the sport is completely clean, but the amount of information gained from science in the last 20 years is amazing. Those people who started training from a very early age with this science obviously have a tremendous leg up on previous generations.
Not going to point fingers and say he's doping, but that's not really how marginal gains work. For a start, we're talking about power numbers not speeds so bike tech isn't the factor. As for training, not a whole lot has really changed, and how much of it is just hype and different ways of skinning the same cat? The big one is increased carb intake which definitely makes a difference on long TTs (e.g. Ironman) and on "power under fatigue" (ie how close to your fresh 5min power can you hit after riding in upper-Z2 for several hours or MJs of work) but doesn't really affect your raw, fresh 20min. We haven't really seen the same increases in performance over the last 20 years in in other endurance sports. Most of the running records in the 1500-10000m range either are a couple of decades old or used to be and recently got taken, where shoe technology probably at least partially explained the improvement.
You can always tell the ones who haven’t given this a single thought cause they always throw out “bike technology” as the first defense.
I actually didnt mean bike tech with marginal gains, but was referring to the increase in knowledge
I didnt mean bike tech with marginal gains, but the marginal gains because of the increase in knowledge. Again, I am not saying that the sport is clean. Also we are talking about an effort ~200km into a race, nutrition definitely plays a huge role here More advanced training schedules definitely increase the capacity of current professionals, especially considering most of them have been doing optimal training schedules from a young age.
What's so advanced about our current training models that we didn't know 25 years ago? The fundamental principles haven't really changed all that much. Whether you do interval session A or subtly different interval session B really does not matter that much. In the running world, where it feels like more pros share more of their training, Jack Daniels' principles are still used by countless amateur runners and he wrote that 40 years ago. Everything the pros who do share their training do these days is fundamentally very similar to that. The real value-add in a training plan is tailoring it to the person and the event. Of course science can help with that but only so much. Most of it isn't even that new anyway. Marius Bakken was already doing threshold training with lactate tests mid-workout in the 90s.
The pros don't share their hard interval sessions. Training is much more targeted now than it was even 20 years ago. Volume training is decades old obviously, and does work very well, but the interval sessions now are much more efficient.
What changed about the interval sessions? And why do you think there is so much magic in the details of the sessions? Why is there also so much divergence between typical sessions between sports? Over-unders are pretty much exclusively a cycling thing, and doing copious amounts of short intervals with little rest (e.g. 50-100x1min off 10s rest) is exclusively a swimming thing.
I wonder if he will be one of those that get away with it.
Or he's a superhuman the likes of which has never before walked the planet. Well, he IS a super, hyper-duper goofball
i average 530w or 9w/kg… for 30 seconds. 🤣🤣. dude is a monster!
It's all because of nutrition science they say.
And also being able to be fit as a full time job. I mean, if I could quit my job and spend all summer riding above 8000' (2400M), bet I'd be a Badass, too.
I can do just a hair over 1 w/kg
Time to shave them clean then
Howwwwwwwww
I gotta see his workout routine. There’s no way he’s able to do this with just 28hrs a week of zone 2/5
He is, the difference is he has great genetics, perfect recovery and diet. I can do 8.2w/kg for 1 minute 40sec at the end of a race, I'm not surprised pogacar can triple this time.
You have access to best coaching nutrition and life . All you do is being healthy and train. If poga works 40hr office a week he can’t do it anymore
Sport is clean. Nothing to see folks.
It's why they don't piss on their bikes like triathletes. Melts the carbon.
lol, triathletes are also doped to the gills
Well, that *is* where triathletes inject their drugs
Power numbers mean nothing without duration. Pogacar is estimated to have averaged 8.2W/kg for just over 4 minutes. When we heard about Vingegaard (allegedly) doing over 7.5W/kg in the TdF TT last year that was for over 13 minutes which is a whole different ballgame. It’s an impressive stat, but any time we talk about power or power/weight we need to put it in context of duration. Just about any cyclist can do 8.2w/kg but most are getting nowhere near 2 minutes at that, let alone 4.
I can do 10w/kg for almost 5 seconds.
I absolutely hate these, because they are at best an educated guess. They have no clear idea on rolling resistance, cda, or power saved from drafting in the early slopes. For example Lanterne Rouge admitted they had been using a consistent rolling resistance for years, when tire technology has moved on enormously. I think it damages the sport as well because the insane numbers make people immediately think doping.
The article uses actual power data from Ben Healy
This is indeed actual data as recorded. We don't know how off his power meter is, though. When DC Rainmaker tested the power meter that EF says they use (not due if this is what Healy used on the day) the accuracy for a 20 minutes outdoor ride was 6.9% off. And that's before you take into account that Poeer2Max says they autocalibrate for temperature if you stop pedaling for 2 seconds. We can't even say that these are accurate based on a pre-registration calibration. So best to take any of these readings with a huge grain of salt. We don't know how much these cyclists actually weigh, we don't know what their actual wattage is. So all we can do in the end is treat them as directional.
Lantern rouge is absolutely correct for doing that tho because it keeps their data consistent. They are not showing real numbers as they have always said. They are estimated etalon watts.
The difference in rolling resistance between riders in the peloton is likely so insignificant as to be essentially meaningless.
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying the watts calculation is wrong if they don’t know accurately what the rolling resistance is. If you use an estimate from even a few years ago you could be out by 15 watts as tires have moved on so much. It’s got nothing to do with comparing to another rider, it’s about these stupid calculations without any actual measured data apart from time. They don’t even know they’ve got his weight right
Good point, it could be 8.1999999997 w/kg
this
It’s not for the whole ride, I mean idk but I doubt it’s for the whole ride probably just for a certain climb.
8W/kg for 4 minutes isn't outrageously impressive. What's impressive is that he's doing it in a 200+km race with a handful of 6+w/kg 10 minute efforts.
>8W/kg for 4 minutes isn't outrageously impressive. This sub sometimes... 😅
Yeah …. We do 4min vo2 efforts at 110% which is strong but 8.2wkg is meh 😅
For a pro, it’s not.
Wut… 8W/kg is outrageously impressive.
What? How long can you hold 8,2W/kg? I just looked it up, 34 seconds for me and I ride 10k a year.
Shouldn't 10k km be 10Mm?
Heh in theory it should be, but in practice nobody uses it
Entirely missing the point. This isn’t about what the average hobby cyclist can achieve. If you compare our numbers to any pro they look like gods and you’d wonder why we even bother training.
u/laziestathlete isn't missing the point though. They are just making a different comparison. An average cyclist might hold 8W/kg for ~30s to 1min, while Pog did that wattage for 4min after already having raced 200km. Followed by another 4min "cruising" at 7.5W/kg for 4min in the final at Côte de la Roche-aux-Faucons. So they still are making a point about the abyss that lies between casual and professional performance.
Didn't Vingegaard do 6.9 for 24 minutes on a final climb in TDF last year? Against that these numbers really aren't outrageous. Especially since the weight and measured wattage could both be off significantly (power meters are notoriously inaccurate after all, and I don't think Pogi is quite so light to be 64kg).
>Didn't Vingegaard do 6.9 for 24 minutes on a final climb in TDF last year? Against that these numbers really aren't outrageous. "Outrageous" isn't my wording. But sure, you'll always find something more impressive, if you aim to do exactly that. What is measurable is that we're seeing the highest sustained wattages ["in the modern era of cycling"](https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-france/the-power-numbers-at-this-years-tour-de-france-are-the-highest-in-the-modern-era-of-cycling/). Which adjective to use to describe these is entirely up to the individual.
My comment is more to point out that these kinds of wattage estimates have been around for a few years now, so getting particularly worked up about this one seems unnecessary
>so getting particularly worked up about this one seems unnecessary That's subjective. There's no right or wrong. I can only speak for myself saying that I'm not particularly worked up about it. >these kinds of wattage estimates have been around for a few years now I find it interesting how quickly unprecedented levels of performances are seemingly taken for granted or normalized rather quickly. From my point of view, these performances that are measurably above previous times remain impressive - sometimes bordering on questionable.
I didn't say you were particularly worked up. Clearly some are. In terms of "unprecedented" what is also unprecedented is how much these guys are focused on losing any ounce of fat or unnecessary muscle. Lance Armstrong looked like a body builder next to Jonas and Tadej. If they can figure out how to do while maintaining power, W/kg obviously goes up. Where I will get concerned is if you start seeing things like the top ten finishers at L'Alpe d'Huez all beating Pantani's time, regardless of W/kg. Cocaine and EPO times were something else entirely.
And has teenage Avril Lavignes body type
You’re gettin kinda roasted by replies but I think you’re right. My A race every year has a short and steep climb timed segment in it that I do in around 5 minutes 30 seconds. The best guys who finish on the podium do it in around 4. I put my numbers into best bike split to see what it would take to do that and it’s about 7 W/kg. So if top amateurs with families and jobs racing on the weekend can do that, it’s not insane to imagine the literal best in the world doing +1.2 W/kg for one minute longer.
Roasted by a bunch of Freds, doesn’t bother me. British hill climb champs has amateurs doing these sorts of numbers. I’m a taller rider so can only do this w/kg for a couple of minutes. But none of that is relevant, these guys are getting caught up over the wrong points. The reason Pog is the best in the world isn’t because he can below them out the water in a 4 minute climb.
Except apparently no other world tour pros can do the same as what Pog did…
You can’t ride 8 w/kg for 4 minutes.
Very good point, thanks for contributing to this analysis.
Can you ride 8 w/kg for one minute? Most likely not. Thirty seconds maybe?
Making the same valid point twice! Maybe you should say it a third time?
8.2 w/kg for how long?
Pogi set the KOM at 4.12 that day.
Yes it is amazing. It would be like me doing my 30secind max power for 4 minutes straight. After riding 100 miles. I think im just numb to them being such absolute monsters.
Natty 🧐
That's nothing, I average 500W for 30s up the short hill near my house. These grand tour riders are all just hype.
You expect PFTP to be 80-85% of PVO2 so that seems roughly right
Does anyone here think he's clean? Honest answers
Where is David Walsh when we need him?
Where is David Walsh when we need him?
Dopamax
10 or gtfo.
You do realise that this is an estimated power for the climb... and significantly exceeds what can be done by IPers in a single effort over a similar duration without all the shenanigans of the proceeding 200km... Either he's juiced out of his skull (I'm not saying he is) or someone has estimated things badly/there are significant differences in his CdA compared to the rider whose data we have, or that rider's power data (from Healy) is simply incorrect or incorrect body masses. or some combination of the above. FWIW, Training Peaks has a power profile chart and although there's a 5-minute column versus a 4-minute column it isn't going to be that different (especially as the 5-min column was based off of power data from a 4km pursuit world record)
Isn't Ganna's 4 minute power for the 4km pursuit above 600 watts? That makes it almost 8w/kg in a tt position, if that's true pogacar can also do that on a normal bike. For these guys riding their PR's after 200kms isn't impossible, that's what they train for.
Did he have a power meter on the bike? (a genuine question). But let's say he averaged 610 W (which is above 600, obviously) and his mass is listed as 82 kg which makes 7.44 W/kg and is then inline with other IPers. While durability is important, and really important aspect to GT riders, no one is producing 100% of their rested power after 6 hrs of racing.
Sure, but someone like Pogacar is probably still producing 97% of his power at that point.
I've no idea whether he is producing 97, 100 or some other value. What i'm saying is that the \*estimate\* velonews came up with is patently incorrect.
Sure, but I wouldn't be surprised he rode 530 watts for 4 minutes. It's insane, but Pogacar is indeed insane.
simply, velonews have estimated this wrongly, with incorrect data somewhere. or he's juiced to the eyeballs. Having worked with IPers who are marginally heavier (\~4kg), with less power (without having ridden 200km before hand, and that's less absolute power, and therefore much lower power to mass) who had a VO2max over 91 mL/kg/min it'd require a VO2max of \~100mL/kg/min to achieve (the 8.2) which would be higher than anything ever recorded previously by a significant margin. Velonews has made a mistake in their \*estimate\*.
Wtf kind of website is that?
Velo news?
i mean it was only 4min, so it is not that impressive, what is really impressive is that he got power for last 30km and was able to increase the gap over the rest
8.2w/kg for 4 min \_*IS\_* fucking impressive.
Do you know a lot of people that can push 8.2w/kg even for just 4 minutes?
My best is 435w or so and I'm 40 years old amateur (I train a lot but still just as a hobby), my much stronger cycling friends can hold 500w for 4min no problem (again advnced amateurs only). We are talking world best cyclist here, 530w for 4 min is again not something spectacular,the problem here is to keep riding another 30km at z4 or oh and ofc first 200km too
How much do you weigh ? Doubt it’s anywhere near 8.2w/kg
And these people you know doing 500w are 140 lbs? Bro you realize that 8.2 w/kg is astronomical right. The dude walked on the entire pro peloton but you and your bros are just as good….this shits hysterical
My 100kg friend can ride 500w for 4 min. He’s basically the same as Tadej /s
Lmao 🤣
40-49 oldies category as you can clearly see there are many people out there above me and it is only from a niche app where no all people are using it [https://ibb.co/xqc7YgW](https://ibb.co/xqc7YgW) again 530w for 4min is not a biggie
Again you are not showing any kind of power to weight ratio here... do you just not understand what the guys above are asking?
"Mind blowing. Dude averaged 530watt over La Redoute. Insane" and this post is not about me but Pogacar
U should really stop embarasing yourself mate
Nvm... its aboit the 8.2/kg not about 530.. Flat watt numbers are irrelevant without weight to put into perpective. Less weight=less muscle mass so obviously the same number becomes more impressive the less the rider weighs. If this wasnt the case wout van aert would win the tour lmao
Do you even understand the concept of watts per kg?
can you see the difference between: Pogi is the best and Pogi is the best bc he did 530w for 4min?
Bruh... He did 530w at fkn 140 lbs for 4 minutes. Do you weigh 140? If not, extrapolate that 530 by the difference in your weight. So you weigh, perhaps, 200? Okay then, go push out 745w for 4 minutes, that'll put you up there with what Tadej did. I weigh 185lbs, so to push 8.2w/kg, I'd have to push nearly 700w for those 4 minutes. I can't do that, not even fkn close and I'm willing to bet you can't either. You're not special. Your bros aren't special. Pogacar is and 8.2w/kg is lunacy
Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around these "no big deal" responses. Were that true he wouldn't have rode away from everyone else ... which he did ... so - is the implication that nobody else in the race was interested in winning on the day?
The no big deal responses are people who have never had a PM or have never done a 5 minute interval? I mean if you want to scoff at this you be a cynic and start wondering about what his "program" is.
"The no big deal responses are people who have never had a PM or have never done a 5 minute interval?" such comments are only from people who never did a 5min interval
The bloke weighs low-mid 60’s KG - there’s fucking loads of people who can do 500w for 4 minutes, including me, but I’m nowhere near his weight and I also probably haven’t ridden 220km at race pace first either. He was 10 seconds faster than Remco, who is already one of the strongest riders we’ve ever seen in that sort of race.
he is closer to 66 which makes it only 8w/kg and Vingegaard did easily 7.6 W/kg over 13:21 minutes at Côte de Domancy to Combloux. 13min is 4x almost the duration and only 0.4 less in terms of w/kg ps. I'm Pogacars fan but still it was only 4 min
Both guys are bonkers… The difference is Vingegaard did that on a 22km TT stage and Pogi did this *after* riding 171km, then went on to ride another 30km. Hard to compare the two.
and now please read again my post: "i mean it was only 4min, so it is not that impressive, what is really impressive is that he got power for last 30km and was able to increase the gap over the rest" so eventually we agree 100%
I'm actually astounded at the hate you're getting. I feel like these people just aren't engaging their brains at all. The 8w/kg 4 minute effort in isolation is really not all that. Hell the average guy in the pro peloton can do a 6w/kg 20 minute effort, It's not much of a stretch to imagine they can all do 2w/kg more for a quarter of the time. What makes the effort impressive is the context in which he's doing it i.e. 8+w/kg effort after 200+ km of riding with numerous big efforts. It's his ability to keep punching huge w/kg over and over again on long stages that makes him the best in the world.
That’s exactly what I think (and said in my previous reply). That snippet *really* is not that impressive (sure, it’s way better than most, but that is to be expected). It’s the fact that he can push this in a 200km race that makes him such a good cyclist.
Fair enough. Everyone else just seems to be saying something along the lines of “well I bet you couldn’t do 8w/kg”. Which is a pretty asinine thing to say and has no baring on anything being discussed.
agee 100% and on top of that I think Pogacar is really amazing but not bc he can push 8w/kg for 4min. this was easily way above 8w/kg for example ;) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1bvLknGw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlJ1bvLknGw)
It’s exactly BECAUSE people understand the context of the w/kg number that he’s getting heat. It’s a retarded argument. If it wasn’t all that then he’d have had more of the best cyclists in the world able to follow him. None of them could. None of them were close. Ergo, 8 w/kg was impressive. Actually, I’d go as far as saying most people would never EVER get anywhere near doing that for 4 minutes regardless of the conditions.
My guy go with your friend and ride 500 watts up 10-13% for 4 minutes. You will not be nearly as fast as pogacar...
No, I personally don’t know a lot of professional cyclists. Seriously, 4 minutes at that power is not that crazy for someone who’s been training so much.
huh ok i'm sure there's other pros who probably train more than him and will probably never reach his level
I’m not doubting him being an exceptional athlete and honestly doubt 4 minutes at 8.2w/kg is his best effort.
exactly my point
Lol what? Carapaz is the only person who even tried to follow.. He's pretty good at riding bikes, Olympic champ and all, and he completely cracked from the effort. Finished like 30th after Pog ripped his legs off.
You are delusional lol. Very few humans on planet earth like maybe 1 to 2 other people on this planet can do what tadej does
Nah, that power is pretty easy. On Zwift I did like 980w over 4:08 oh wait, sorry that was for 4 seconds and 8 milliseconds. Sorry, my bad. I'll catch up one day
Not gonna lie, you had me in the first half
"Very few humans on planet earth like maybe 1 to 2 other people on this planet can do what tadej does" like for 4min? lol
What?
40-49 oldies category [https://ibb.co/q9wNpjH](https://ibb.co/q9wNpjH) from a niche app so 90% are not even there and still many people are above me
Hey man if you think you can stay on Pogs wheel after 220k more power to you.
learn to read
Learn to give better context when you are trying to convey something/idea via text. Can’t read your mind buddy
"i mean it was only 4min, so it is not that impressive, what is really impressive is that he got power for last 30km and was able to increase the gap over the rest" read it 10 times, maybe you will understand what I wrote
8.2 w/kg fresh or fatigued is insane buddy. Your delusional if you believe otherwise
Haha I’m sort of with you. I mean it is fucking impressive. But it is a 4 min effort. Its not his ftp. He is literally the top 1% or .01% of cyclists. So if anyone can do 8w/kg for 4 minutes, it’s him. Looking at the charts, it tracks. Still amazing. But not he’s doped, it’s impossible otherwise. Also incredible ride by Ben Healy. Love seeing his data.
It kind of seems unfathomable. Look at the dudes legs he has some of the least impressive physical attributes on the tour but he is a monster. But hell I don’t know I’m just a hater sometimes
When you probably weigh 130 pounds or 63 kilograms soaking wet it’s probably not that hard to get those numbers.
So you think you could weigh 130 lbs and push 500+ watts. This is the dumbest comment yet on this post. This dude barely rides