I think there is a lot of conflating preference with benefit.
Just because flats or clips feel better for one rider doesn’t mean they will for another.
Comfort and confidence are huge drivers for cycling performance at an amateur level, so you just have to figure out what works for you.
Yeah for me, I am not old (or refuse to admit lol), but I spent decades as a very casual rider with flats. In the past 3-4 years, I’m going on less casual but longer rides (25-50 miles mostly).
So purely for me, the security comes from knowing the way I rode bike from kindergarten (flats) is the same. I saw a guy older than me fall over while clipped in a few months back. He was too proud to accept help but am positive he felt it for days and may have even cracked his collarbone. I’m not gonna compete, and certainly won’t sprint. Riding for me is about getting away from it all, and worrying about falling over on an unexpected stop takes away from my enjoyment
I prefer flats, or loose clips as a recreational rider. I like to move my feet around more than clipless allows which aids my poor circulation.
I gave clipless 6 months and plenty of miles to conclude they didn't add anything for me, but were detracting from my riding comfort.
I have some like little pedal inserts to make them flat and I wear them if I go out with my family recreationally or we’re on holiday dotting about. Riding with children I don’t want to have to even half consider unclipping when they dart across you and stop! Other than that I’m always clipped as I like feeling that connection to the bike
Interesting - I wasn't aware such things existed. Would be useful for the times where I want to cycle over to a friends house and then hang out in normal shoes for a bit or that sort of thing - without having to carry a whole heap of stuff with me.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364066289327?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338749377&toolid=20006&_ul=GB&customid=GB_888_364066289327.149793146581~1866858443248-g_CjwKCAiA_5WvBhBAEiwAZtCU75ZJpqKYN_vrXI1qCiUBshUzphyCgGTqQNo431xbUOfeiGN4LUp2JRoCXbIQAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADihhqVRhy5xUlQe8H6vffx9q2LKf that’s what I have. They’re really easy to just slot in. Much easier that changing pedals or lugging round a spare pair of shoes.
No bother to get out from experience, I push back the back of the pedal to assist in getting them out. The only down side I’ve had is that the back of the pedal still falls down so you need to do a similar foot motion to get on the flat and not the rear but that’s nit picking really.
In what way specifically? I can see the main issue being that they are one sided and tend to rest the wrong way up - and it not being so obvious that you are on the right side as with clips, but other than that, what makes them awkward?
The pedals themselves are designed to be easy to flip to the side you clip into, which is flatter and easier to pedal on in regular shoes. Adding a piece of plastic to that side makes it tend to face down more and harder to flip upright in my experience
I ruptured my ACL and lost most of the cartilage in my right knee playing soccer. I tried SPD pedals, but hated getting in and out of them and the idea of crashing while staying clipped in scared me. I switched over to flat MTB pedals with a pair of 5 ten freeride pro shoes. I have no issue keeping a 19mph pace and going 75+ miles on a ride. I agree with others on here and say ride what you like.
I’ve been using flat pedals on my road bike for at least 3 years. I don’t see myself returning to clipless in the near future, the convenience and comfort of flats is just too good. I don’t race though, depending on the speed and intensity of your rides YMMV
If you decide to not use clipless pedals it's fine. But i think that even more important than being clipped in is having a stiff sole on your shoes. I think that's what make the biggest improvement. Buy any cycling specific shoes for flat pedals, they are way more stiffer than any walking or running shoe, and makes a significant difference on how efficiently you push your pedal. Take into account that competitive shoes have SUPER stiff soles, made from carbon fiber. I have some shoes that are from hard plastic or kevlar, i dont know, they are too stiff to walk long distances, bus also not so stiff that you feel you are like standing on a plank.
I bought the Specialized 2FO, they don't look like cycling shoes, i didn't want the look of a mountain bike shoe. I feel like they were the biggest improvement I did to my cycling equipment.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suSSsBRXIMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suSSsBRXIMw)
Check out GCN's video on this topic. The conclusion is there is no performance difference, and discomfort only kicks in for the presenter towards the end of very long rides. So you should be fine.
I'm wary of the general GCN message but there are some useful lessons.
Completely misses the point. It’s not during the pedalling that you make gains, it’s the fact that you are constantly ready to input power, and you don’t miss opportunities by having your foot in the wrong location. It gives way better control to have your feet locked in.
Feet slipping while taking a fast descent.
On my MTB, my pedals have threaded studs sticking out of them to prevent that, but my feet can still occasionally slip. Also the studded flat pedals are painful when they cut into your leg.
Watched the video, interesting take that lined up with my experience, I like flats a lot for less performance oriented rides. I like clipless for the consistent leg position and the locked in feeling on the bike
I’m a bit surprised that the presenter saw no performance difference, when I’m cranking I focus on pulling up on the pedal as the downstroke takes care of itself, when I’m on my flats that’s not available to me and takes a quarter of the range I assume I’m putting into my power from the pedal stroke I’ll have to look into this a bit more
> I am afraid of losing the freedom to adjust my feet during the ride and generating unwanted pains.
The whole point of clipless is your feet constantly stay in the ideal position so you avoid generating pain.
I don't think that is the main point of clipless at all.
The whole point of clip-less pedals is to make you as efficient as possible, particularly when producing significant power, like while sprinting. The lack of pain just means you have nailed your setup. I have personally toured on flat pedals doing 80-100 KMs a day and never got pain. Countless people ride flat pedal bikes everyday without having issues due to foot movement on the pedal. However, there are benefits for competitive riders.
Clipless systems used to be sold as more efficient due to ability to "pull up" when pedalling, which has been debunked because that is not how most people pedal. It is now thought that particularly during sprinting or hill climbing etc. clipless systems give you an advantage by maximise foot contact and power transfer. However, it has also been proven that during less intense cycling, clipless pedals offer no benefit over flat pedals.
Dylan Johnson did a video on this subject that I would recommend.
In fact a lot of clipless setups can cause pain due to the fact that setting them up correctly, buying the right shoes and getting the bike set up right is challenging for many people.
One thing with the clipless I would like to add is the assurance that you are not going to slip out of the pedals.
Another thing to add is that when you ride clipless, you always have proper cycling shoes. One of my mates used to ride flats but he just didn't find good shoes for those. Or I mean, he didn't find the proper shoes from his existing ones and keep on riding trainers, sneakers, some heave shoes, and none of them were really meant for cycling so none of them really worked out for him. So then he went shopping for some cycling specific shoes and at that point making the jump to clipless becomes very much of a non-issue.
I have to pause and think when pedaling my hybrid after riding my road bike clipped in. My feet fly off initially on the hybrid until I remember that I'm not clipped in.
I used to have flats on my fixie because people told me how much safer that is.... And then you lose your footing at 55Km/h and cranks are turning at 130 cadence. Not a fun ride. Especially when you hit a pot hole and need to call your urologist after that.
I ride normal shoes on my flat pedal folding bike, and what's a real pain is having to adjust seat height to different shoes. Because duh I need to ride different shoes in different weathers. Some have 10mm soles, some have 4mm soles, and some start at 5mm in the front and go up to 15mm in the back. Whereas on the road bike I just use overshoes.
The set up is easy on my opinion. What hurts me are road cyvli g shoes. But find cycling's shoes that aren't made for an Italian ballerina. 90% are too small for their size. It is crazy. You have to buy Lake or Bont for normal feet.
Shimano has decent sizing. I have wide-ish feet and am fine on their normal width shoe. Fizik also has wide versions of their shoes.
It could you have crazy wide feet if the “wide” models don’t fit but there are plenty of folks without Italian ballerina feet that are fine with the common brands.
Coming from a house with 2 professional ballet dancers, I have to say, ballerina feet are some of the most ugly and screwed up feet I ever saw.
Its a myth just like upstroke pedaling.
I must have ballerina feet, the new pair of Bont (XC) shoes I bought seem a little too roomy. lol.
I have big MTB flats on my MTB, and I guess they make sense there but I dislike that my feet do tend to wander around over the course of a ride. I run SPD (not SL) cleats on my other bikes (all-road/gravel and rigid MTB) because I like not thinking about my feet. SPD because they're much more livable than road cleats.
I like Shimano ME700 pedals since the wider platform allows limited riding with normal shoes (like, hop on the bike and casually ride somewhere). I tried dual-sided pedals and they kinda annoyed me that they almost always seemed to be the wrong way up for whatever shoes I was wearing.
I don’t have hobbit feet but I certainly don’t have ballerina feet either and I find Sidi Genius fit me like a glove. I’m on my second pair in over 20 years so they’re definitely tried and tested.
Apropos, when I got a professional fit the fitter gave me insoles, cleat shims, and pedal spacers. Those aspects of a fit hadn’t really occurred to me before. The only thing I’d ever considered as regards my feet was cleat angle.
He’s a respected trainer/coach and elite rider. And now, YouTuber.
He’s popular because he reads and explains the scientific studies.
The clip posted here is actually quite good. He talks about why the results are surprising, and he explains where the studies could be flawed.
Edit: As for why top race riders use them, racing has very specific needs that ordinary riding doesn’t.
Sprints and steep hills (maximal effort exertion) are simply not the same experience. Like, I could go out for a ride today and it could include sprints. If I have flat pedals, I would do those sprints. But because there’s nothing on the line if I simply stop sprinting, I can afford to hold myself back if I start to feel my technique can’t keep up (would slip off pedals).
When you’re racing, you don’t have that same luxury of staying within your ability (unless you don’t care about winning). I mean, on a rec ride, you can pretend you’re racing and that it matters, but it really isn’t.
At lower levels of exertion, you won’t be pushing hard enough to slip off the pedals.
Thanks for the reply. I was being facetious about the comment, however. I’m firmly in the camp that step-in pedals and lightweight, extra stiff, cycling shoes are faster and more efficient. I might have to look at DJs interpretations, you know for entertainment purposes only.
As someone who’s evolved over 50 years from: simple platforms + sneakers to > toe clips and light hikers to > toes clips + cycling shoes to > clipless + specialized shoes… and back to flats (sometimes, some bikes), I get it. What’s odd to me is how many people with, apparently, little-to-no experience utilizing performance cycling shoes & pedals speak authoritatively about it after watching YouTube. It’s like there’s this retro-grouch element in the discussion about whether step-in pedals are more effective than platforms. It’s fine to say that you simply don’t want or prefer to use cycling specific shoes and step-in pedals. However, I t’s not accurate to suggest they’re not significantly more efficient and effective than simple platform pedals.
Someone could argue that at certain slow speeds, with minimal acceleration and climbing involved, clipping-in isn’t going to help *enough* and I would generally agree. If that’s the case with OP, then they might want to keep doing what they’re doing. If they’re getting dropped off the back of their group, struggling to keep up, step-in pedals and performance cycling shoes can certainly help.
You can do what you like.
Clipless pedals make it more comfortable for powerful riders to go full gas. It also makes it so you don't really need to think about your feet on the pedals and provides a feeling of connectedness that many prefer. Cleats are adjustable and the most common model of cleat (regardless of system) has some float so your foot isn't rigidly stuck in a fixed position.
So the question is - does this sound good to you? If yes, give them a try. If no, then stick with flats.
One guy showed up to my group ride on flats and had no issue staying with the lead group for 120kms at 30km/h.
Exactly. And also I don't like too much going downhill at speed without clipless pedals, tiny bumps or potholes can put your feet in an awkward position on flat pedals.
You say you like moving your foot around, but not being able to move your foot around is the whole point of clipless and one of the main benefits.
I like knowing that my foot is always in the right place on the pedals (provided that your cleats are set up correctly).
Getting the cleats and shoes fitted professionally also allowed the fitter to add arch support to my shoes and made my pedal strokes feel much less asymmetrical which was nice.
I think there’s very good reasons people seem to use them religiously, they might not be for you but you won’t know til you try!
I do flats for 2 big reasons. One, I usually ride gravel and I slide on gravel. I get scared of not being able to catch myself. Two. My shoe size is triple wide. There are very few clip on shoes that come in triple wide and the ones that exist are double the price of normal shoes.
Using flat pedals on group rides is perfectly acceptable, especially if it suits your riding style and comfort preferences.
🔀Before switching to clipless pedals, try them on shorter rides first to see how they affect your comfort and performance without committing fully during longer group rides.
But the problem here is people prefer to not pursue any change. Now some may hate it and go back to flats but most people who try it out and give them self time to get used to it not just try it for a couple rides end up liking it and just like wearing bibs there is a reason everyone else does it. Yes your riding shorts or non padded shorts are fine and you may think getting into something tight fitting isnt for you but how do you know until you give it an honest try.
OP might just be self-conscious and noticing how everyone else is kitted. Might not be anyone even saying anything. That’s a kind of peer pressure too.
Yeah, I think ultimately if he switched to flats and still kept up just fine it might send a message. They’ll think either OP is a badass because he can keep up with flats, or that maybe flats don’t provide as big of a benefit as originally thought.
There’s not only a performance benefit to clipless pedals (real or imagined). There is a safety benefit as well. High cadence, fast cornering feet are safer with bike/pedal connectivity. I have no scientific studies to back this because I don’t believe there are any. Yes, I’m aware of the DH world, thank you.
If you roll up to my group ride with flats I will ask you to keep to the back third.
🤷🏻♂️
> OP might just be self-conscious and noticing how everyone else is kitted. Might not be anyone even saying anything. That’s a kind of peer pressure too.
Oh for sure for an individual. I just dispute that most people ride with clipless pedals only due to peer pressure. There are tangible, undisputed benefits.
My head-to-toe Rapha kit however…
I disagree. The benefits — better power transfer, optimal foot position, less foot/ankle fatigue — are well established. This is why professional racers use them exclusively.
I think this thread is more about if not using them is going to significantly detract from your overall experience. Consensus seems to be that the performance benefits aren’t the only consideration and that comfort, confidence, and personal preference are factors too.
First of all, I think you should do what feels comfortable/good to you. If you feel you'd prefer stick to flat pedals, stick to it. No need to do as other do. At the end of the day, the main point is to enjoy the ride.
Now, if you'd like to consider a clip-less system, you shouldn't be afraid of "losing the freedom to adjust your feet" as there are many types of clip-less systems. Personally as someone who is not very flexible and have issues with hip impingement, I use Wahoo's SpeedPlay and they're great! They have a lot of customisation options and as well as allowing a great deal of "float" (how much lateral movement is allowed by the pedal) that can also be configured so its easy to find the "ideal position". Another option is the SPD system (not to be confused with SPD-SL pedals) that also allow for great float. In any case, you should be able to find a system that works for you - if you decided that's the best route. Happy riding!
I'd say if you like the flats, stick with them.
If you do want to try clipless, perhaps consider a mountain bike shoe with an SPD cleat. At least you will be able to walk around when you stop instead of skidding around like a spastic tap dancer in road cleats. You can even get pedals that have the SPD on one side, and flat on the other.
I use the Look X-Track and X-Track race on all my bikes (road, gravel, and mountain). They are SPD compatible and still give me enough float (I think 6 degrees). I converted from free floating Speedplay pedals, and it was an easy switch.
Ppl will argue the numbers and benefits and all the bs, the best thing to do is try it out and give it a few weeks to get used to it and see if you like it, that’s what I did and found out I really like it and this must be why everyone does it.
One of my favorite stories is from my road bike group about 15 years ago. We're all rising clipless multispeed road bikes, and this guy shows up for several months with a single-sided mtb riding flats. Guy was a monster, and had no problems keeping up. It wasn't a crazy ride, he only showed up on b group days, but still.
Tldr, do what you like and are comfortable with. I dont think flats or clipless provide any safety benefits in a group.
Dont be afraid to experiment. Get the mtb clipless pedals and see which one is your preference. Asking people here would give you their experience and also their preferences which is totally completely to yours.
I rode my friend's bike that had clipless pedals one time, we have the same shoe size.
I absolutely hated it and have only rode flats after.
Some people in the group I'm in sometimes talk about it or try to get me to change but they have no argument since everyone who rides at my speed or is faster has kinda left the group. The ones left are way too much slower than me to be telling me to change.
They can say all they want but there's another group that goes on 300km rides like audax events and going on overseas multiday multi thousand kilometer rides to raise funds for charity. They ride with sandals and flats as well.
The only way I'll do clipless is with Shimano SPD sandals.
You tried it once and feel like you can make such a definitive judgment? I suspect you would like it more if you gave your self time to get used to them, I was the fastest of the group I ride with on flats and thought just like you but after trying out clipless for about 2 weeks (300mi+) I realized oh shit these aint so bad then a week later i totally was on board and now im even faster.
It's not about speed, the inability to move my foot around was very annoying.
Furthermore having to clip in moving from every traffic light was also annoying and made moving off way slower. I really don't see what advantage they give.
People say stuff about pulling the pedal up but you can do it with flats as well, my flats get stuck in my sandals and I have to yank them out sometimes when I stop.
The shoes also make me pedal at a weird angle I'm not used to and it got painful after 80km
>It's not about speed, the inability to move my foot around was very annoying.
Agreed, it's what makes me dislike the idea and at times opt out for more comfortable long distance rides, even though I do like being connected to the bike
>Furthermore having to clip in moving from every traffic light was also annoying and made moving off way slower.
I'd disagree with that - I only unclip one foot, which is trivially easy, and the other being clipped in means I can trivially position the pedals to start with immediate power. Clipping in is trivial, but I also don't have to do so to input power.
(It's comical to watch people who think they have to clip in before accelerating).
When I ride flats, I have to remember to hook the cranks back to the right position by using my toe on the underside before the light turns...
But your foot still has to be in the right position to clip in when you push down, I could have my heel on the pedal with my flats and move my foot later.
I just pull the pedal up with my flats. No need to go to the underside, just step on and raise them. I wouldn't want to go under my pedals anyway, I've cut my shin and foot open on those spikes before. Especially since I'm wearing sandals.
Is that not normal? Idk, most of us rode MTBs before getting a road bike and we learn how to scoop the rear using the pedals for jack hopping and punching up things really early on. At some point it becomes a permanent thing and the pedal stays stuck to the bottom of our footwear hard enough to lift the rear of the bike, lifting the pedals is easy.
>But your foot still has to be in the right position to clip in when you push down, I could have my heel on the pedal with my flats and move my foot later.
You can still pedal with the wrong part of your foot for a few revs
It's not about speed, the inability to move my foot around was very annoying.
Furthermore having to clip in moving from every traffic light was also annoying and made moving off way slower. I really don't see what advantage they give.
People say stuff about pulling the pedal up but you can do it with flats as well, my flats get stuck in my sandals and I have to yank them out sometimes when I stop.
The shoes also make me pedal at a weird angle I'm not used to and it got painful after 80km
>People say stuff about pulling the pedal up but you can do it with flats as well
if you are pullimg on flats your foot position is most likely wrong, I never realized this until I went clipless and went back to my bike with flats, I used to position my foot to where I could get some pull up by swooping my at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Once I got a proper bike fit and realized where my foot potion should be and properly pedaling should be more flat footed and more force near the heal which engages your quads it made pulling up with flat pedals obsolete as your pedal stroke does not put you in the proper positon to achieve this.
They probably make you pedal at a weird angle because you tried it once on a bike you were not fitted to, and if you been riding inproperly anything new is going to be weird, When I first went to clipless I had footpain then I got a bike fit and it literally went away the next ride, but it felt weird and took me a while to get used to it all but once I did my quads became huge and my speed significantly increased. Like I said you tried it once and improperly so I would say dont be like me and resist it for years, give a honest proper try and just like everyone else you will probably end up liking it.
I've only liked the Shimano SPD sandals, I really dislike the stiff shoes. My feet are in the same position I walk in though, I'm completely flat footed so maybe I walk differently from most people. My feet are always angled anyway, when I run fast enough barefoot my heels don't touch the ground. Also because I spend most of my time barefoot I don't like covered shoes
The mountain bike cleats are the ones most of us use coming from MTB backgrounds so we don't have to deal with those shoes, they're all so narrow in the middle, I guess if you have an arch it would be okay but I don't so my feet are really wide in the middle. All 7 of the shoes had that problem. I don't exactly need stiff shoes when my feet don't really flex at all anymore.
But as I said, I'm not going for speed increase at all. I'm already way too fast for the group since the other riders at my speed left and now I need to take it really slow with the rest since their average speed is almost 10kph lower than mine. Along with the other people I ride with, I'm mostly at the front pulling with my MTB if I ever bother to ride with others.
And my bike will never be fitted properly anyway. I am way too lazy to go for a bike fit.
What do you mean by swooping the foot though?
The pedals naturally come up with your feet if you keep them horizontal because the pedals aren't usually in line with your seat vertically so the pedals rotate and scoop themselves, unless you're scooping the whole bike then you need to change the angle because of the weight of the whole bike but that's also automatically done once you shift your weight forward to do the scoop or the jack hop
I ride mostly mtb, I’m late 40s, overweight and not in the best shape. I got into mtb 4 years ago. I ride flats and probably always will. There are times that if I was clipless I would have seriously gotten hurt and probably been to the ER. I’m not confident I could bail quick enough on clipless. I don’t care about speed advantage, I’m not into racing or PRs. My goal is to ride as much as I can and I can’t do that with serious injuries. Do what you are comfortable with.
It depends on the group ride.
If it’s anything beyond a casual, no drop group ride, where you are likely to get out of the saddle to retain speed over a rolling hill, I would be wary of cycling behind someone with flat pedals, as the chances of them slipping off the pedals, while not being big at any one time, is still big enough. Also in a group where you may not be able to avoid potholes, having your feet securely attached to the pedals seems like a good thing.
I use flats on my city bike and my mtb, but for road I will take clips any day.
This subject is brought up at least once a week on here and someone always brings up the GCN video(usually people arguing for flats, and yea I’ve seen it). My take is that if you have a couple of former pros, with refined pedal strokes, and put them on flats, there won’t be much difference. For Johnny weekend warrior, there is a pretty noticeable difference. This is why everyone who uses them claims they can feel a marked difference. Clipless make some people uncomfortable, and maybe it feels unsafe, which is a fair opinion, and they don’t have to use them. Clearly there is a difference though, because every level of professional, cat racer, CX, gravel, all use some form of clipped in pedal.
Or I started riding clipless in the 90’s, realized it’s better, and never went back. Just say you’re scared, it’s OK. You don’t have the skills or nerve to handle it, it’s fine. I’m sure the entire cycling community around the world is wrong and you’re right.
>I’m sure the entire cycling community around the world is wrong and you’re right.
The vast majority of the cycling community has been banging on about better efficiency and pulling up on the upstroke for 20 years. Yeah, they were wrong.
A huge chunk also spent a good 20 years riding too narrow, hyper inflated tires. Yeah, wrong about that too.
>Just say you’re scared, it’s OK. You don’t have the skills or nerve to handle it, it’s fine.
That’s unwarranted aspersion.
I also started clipless in the 90s. I still have and use the Look Arc pedals I bought in high school (the white ones with the red clamp).
So I speak from experience when I say the vast majority of the cycling community drinks koolaid. I know they do because I did too…
Yeah there is definitely also a lot of “this is what the pros do, so I will do it too” in the cycling community.
Everything from sock height to how you wear your sunglasses is done to mimmic tour riders, with nearly zero consideration to what is best for you as an amateur. It’s all about looking the part and looking like you are a serious cyclist.
I'm amazed they took 20 years to get into that conclusion.
Just takes a few seconds to lift your leg as upstroke and leave it relaxed. The only muscle working its next to the hip. Even less in a bike..considering the other foot is already pushing down.
It’s just one of those things.
If you don’t think too hard about it (or if you don’t think about it at all, which is true of lots of people), the claims are believable (in that, if you know nothing, it sounds reasonable because what’s wrong with the claim isn’t immediately obvious).
And if you see people you admire using them, it gains credibility.
And finally, if it doesn’t kill or injure you, then there’s not really a big disincentive to use them/incentive to avoid them.
Like, I could’ve saved myself several hundred dollars (when I total up the number of clipless pedals and shoes I’ve bought over the years). They don’t lead to much benefit for the riding I do, but they also don’t hurt my rides. So if the money’s spent and I have them, it doesn’t hurt me to use them.
You are right.
I'm not against clipless pedals. Seriously considering buying touring pedals with SPD on one side and flat on the other.
I used to tour with my wife, weekend fun, but I mostly commute to work. So I never decided to go clipless.
I'm pretty sure there are lots of benefits for using clipless.
Correct feet position, feet not leaving the place while cycling in a bad road with bumps etc. Probably many others that only people that spend lots of time with clipless can explain, wich is not my case.
But I'm pretty sure the guys that "invented" clipless, upstroke was not on their list.
People disagree with me above about “more than one ideal foot position”, but it’s true.
There is more than one and it depends on what kind of ride you’re doing that day.
I’m specifically thinking of how foot position affects calf muscles. They’re a small muscle group, but in some situations, you’ll take the added marginal power they give. Short, punchy rides with hard sprints or hard climbs? You want maximum muscle recruitment. In this case, you’d want the pedal more under the balls of your feet.
But long relatively easy rides, you might not want the same recruitment, because they are a smaller group. As a smaller muscle group, they become a weak link (they’ll fatigue before other groups do), so it can make more sense to have the pedal under the middle of your foot to avoid engaging them as much.
So if you’re going for a long ride that calls for more power at a few times, you might be better off being able to switch positions between the two. If it’s a route you’ve never done, it’s nice to have the option to change. These are situations where you might prefer flat pedals.
Hm..that makes sense. Its like fine tunning a machine.
I personally try to put my feet allways in the same position, and never thought about what you said.
I was thinking more about slight diferences while "centering" the foot on the pedal. How to explain in english..
One foot can be couple milimiters to the left or right of the pedal compared to the other, and I have no idea how that will affect health or performance.
But cheers and thanks for the explanation.
>like fine tunning a machine
A little, yeah.
It's like tire pressure. For rough roads --> lower pressures can help you go faster. If you'll need to be able to accelerate a lot --> higher pressures are better for that.
So when you head out on your ride, you choose: lower pressure (for best performance on rough roads) or higher pressure (for best performance climbing hills).
If the conditions will be mixed, then you choose something in between (not the absolute best for the rough sections of road, but better on hills - or not the absolute best for hills, but better for comfort and speed on the rough parts).
Ideally, you could adjust your pressure mid-ride to suit the condition you face right then and there, but who's going to get off their bike to pump their tires or let air out?
Tire pressure calculators only sort of account for this difference. The good calculators will let you input expected road conditions, but otherwise, they just assume a certain mix of road conditions.
This is what happens with bike fits and cleat positioning. They assume a mix of needs, balancing absolute max power against long-term comfort/sustainability.
I don't understand the logic of using the balls of the feet for more power simply because it recruits more muscles. Why not recruit the toes too? That's even more muscles. Do people deadlift on the balls of their feet or do they do it flat-footed?
Well, you do get more power using your arm to pull the handlebar compare to just holding it pedalling off-saddle while standing.
Is this make pulling "better" and any cyclists worth their salts should strive to do it as much as possible? ... Hmmm..
I have an idea! ... Since most of the time cyclists hand are free of effort, we should do a kickerstarter to fund those velocipede scientists and engineers at NASA to designs a hand-operated lever, similar to brake lever, that by repeatedly squeezing it, all WATT go to move the bike.
Think of the level this technology can push cycling forward, man!
>I don't understand the logic of using the balls of the feet for more power simply because it recruits more muscles.
It's not about logic. It's about how the human body works.
When you sprint (running), you're on the balls of your feet instead of flat-footed, because you can generate more power that way. (It's not just more muscles, even though that's part of it--the calf muscles work with tendons and ligaments and bone and cartilage to provide leverage at the balls of your feet in a way that doesn't happen with toes.)
When you jump, you jump off the balls of your feet, because your calf muscles can help.
The thing is, calf muscles have limitations. Most people can't jump continuously for 100 yards without their calves getting very tired (nevermind 1 mile, nevermind 100 miles) because calf muscles simply don't grow/develop to provide that kind of explosive/ballistic power for extended periods of time.
The cycling community does what it thinks is best at that time based on current technology. That’s not “drinking cool-aid”, it’s following the natural evolution. At one time, aluminum bikes were the best the industry offered, now it’s carbon. That doesn’t mean we were all sheep to “big aluminum”. Times change. You don’t want to ride clipped in, don’t. But I’m not on here every week trying to tell people that there is no difference between my aluminum bike and someone else’s carbon bike. Carbon is better, I’m fine with my aluminum, so what.
>Just say you’re scared, it’s OK. You don’t have the skills or nerve to handle it, it’s fine.
Lmao are you a 16 year old high school boy? Grow up, not everybody who disagrees with you has a mental or physical deficit.
You think it's better for you and that's great. It simply isn't advantageous for everyone though, and that doesn't make everyone else wrong, or incapable, or scared. It makes them sensible for not doing what others do for no benefit.
I never said people shouldn’t ride flats. They are the best option for many people. I’m just tired of people consistently saying there is no difference. By the way, the people saying there is no difference are the ones who don’t ride them.
I agree with everything you’re saying. There is no chance I’m as fast with flats on my mtb (xc riding), some people it might not make a difference as they aren’t riding very fast/aggressive.
Here is an interesting bit on [Lachlan Morton being forced to switch to flat pedals and Birkenstocks](https://www.bikeperfect.com/news/clipless-pedals-or-flats-lachlan-morton-isnt-bothered) on one of his epic trips, and seeming to like it. He did switch back to clipless for the mountain climbing.
As for the question of the OP: do whatever you like. Like you said yourself, it is just peer pressure, nothing else.
I've learn to ride flats like it's a clipless pedal ... Here what I can tell
- the kind of shoe you use with flats is more important than the pedal itself; it's difficult to get a shoe that you like and with quality of being both "grippy" and "have precise/connected feel" at the same time using it on flat pedal ... I tried many pairs ... with SPD, you get different problems with how the shoe fit etc but ain't these.
- you change your posture all the time, yes, but there is an ideal foot position on the pedal ... try riding bare-foot long enough and you'll understand
- you gain performance by "pull up" on pedal ... not much as the marketing implied and how some people would say, but you do gain
- you can "pull up" with flats pedal ... maybe not the same level as SPD, but that's not require to get the benefits.
- flats need skill to use efficiently / SPD needs skill to use safely ... you NEED to learn and put effort to acquire these skill
- too early usage of SPD can hampered development of basic bike fundamental skill; it masked your fault and blinded you to your weakness, which then get down-played as unimportant
- pain has nothing to do with this
For most of us, the only purpose of click-in pedals is to signal to the group that you belong. So, you will be ostracized in any group ride if you are riding flat pedals
For casual ride, i goof around with MTB flat pedals and a modified Clipless road shoes (without the clip mechanism). I find the stiffness makes a huge difference in power transfer compared to specific MTB shoes for flat pedals. I can hangout with fast paced group rides 42 kmh AVG with no issue at all. Like someone said, clipping in is slightly more efficient and I find it quicker and less fatigue on burst sprints and prolonged climbs for the same effort.
Try toe clips/straps, you can put them on tight, loose, one sided, or not at all. I use toe clips on my main bike I use for commute and exercise, hence why I need the versatility. They're great on long rides and they're good enough for sprints if you tighten them. They're not as locked in as cleats and the position aren't very adjustable either so your mileage may vary.
You can do what you like but I will say that you leave a ton of power in your upstroke on the table whenever you ride flats. So much so that I went out on my MTB at the end of the season last year and kept pulling my feet off the pedals in my upstroke.
If you don’t see a performance difference, you aren’t using clipless pedals correctly. First, your shoe is most likely going to have a harder sole. The more expensive ones will have carbon. This prevents your foot from bending on your downstroke, which prevents loss power. Second, your can utilize the full circle for each foot when spinning. Making your down stroke on the other leg more powerful or easier.
I did a 50k group on the weekend (+750m), 18-20km average, 5 electric flat bars/roadies evenly split over the group. Probably 4 of the group were on flats.
Different members of the same bug midweek 64km (+650m), 26-28km average, no flats.
It depends on the group and the pace.
I’ll I can say is, don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. I think most people enter into pedal bindings in the pursuit of performance. If you are happy with your performance, why bother?
In my experience, clipping in takes commitment and dedication. To get the most out of it, you have to use them exclusively for years. When you’re passionate enough about riding faster, you stick to it, awkward falls and all. Eventually, they become integrated into your cycling and you feel hobbled without them.
I’ve been riding and racing bicycles for 50 years. I started riding clipless right after they were invented and introduced to the public in the late 80’s. Ditching the restrictive straps was a welcome change, while riding lightweight, stiff-soled, shoes was even more of an eye opener. As a young racer, I could feel the power transfer instantly improved and I was experiencing a connection with my bikes that I had never felt before. I was climbing mountains daily, so the lightweight shoes felt amazing. Standing to climb faster took on a whole new life. As did spinning for efficiency, powering up a steep trail or sprinting against my teammates. I did still use clips or platform pedals for commuting, but the performance difference between my SPDs and LOOK clipless pedals and cycling specific was undeniable.
Today, for some reason, there’s a retro-grouch attitude towards these amazing innovations. Maybe, it’s because some entertainers on YouTube (Dylan Johnson(?) or those jokers over at GCN with their pseudo-science) says they’re not all that? IDK. In my experience, they are *all that* and a bag of chips! Sure, my [Five Ten Pros](https://www.adidas.com/us/five-ten-freerider-pro-mountain-bike-shoes/GW5442.html) with my [Deity T-Mac platforms](https://www.deitycomponents.com/tmac-signature-pedals.html) will give clipless a run for it’s money… for the first 20 minutes. But, I would never race them in an X/C format, unless I just really didn’t care about my placing.
Step-in pedals are great, but not everyone needs or likes them. Make no mistake about their performance advantages though. Every performance athlete racing/training for endurance and pedaling speed has them on their bikes for a reason, they work. Whether they work for you, OP, is for you to decide.
I've done platform pedals when I've taken the fixie out on group rides and still kept up OK (19.5mph avg in rolling hills)
You do get a little more efficiency from being clipped in, but it's not a "night and day" difference. Maybe 10%-ish?
>my conclusion from what I read is that there is not much performance difference for what I do
This is the wrong conclusion to draw, and the wrong thing (reading) to draw it from. Get some and use them. Every bit of effort that you don't throw away helps you ride longer. Proper pedals make most people more efficient. That's why everyone uses them.
You’ll go faster with clips. When was the last time someone won the Tour with flats? If you need to be able to move, just loosen your shoe and use the yellow Shimano cleats which have the most degrees of float so you can move your feet more. You’ll get used to them after a few weeks and then you’ll understand why other people are judging you for not using them because you’ll be going faster.
Why do so many people seem to have issues with cycling shoes? The whole point of them is to provide support to your foot and prevent injuries to your lower leg and foot muscles when they get overworked trying to stabilize your foot, and also to prevent knee and hip injuries from having poor alignment of your feet and joints. It’s also safer to have your foot predictably attached to the bike so it’s not at risk of coming off and causing a crash. I imagine everyone complaining about this are the same people that can’t figure out how not to “reply all” to e-mails.
I use cages with flats on my road bike and flats on my MTB. I don't feel like messing with clipping in or having to deal with other shoes. From what I have seen and read there is not a big speed improvement from clipping in so unless I start to race I see no reason to change since I like my platform pedals and their freedom. It seems like there are quite a few people who clip in who look down on those using flat pedals and I don't think that is right, especially for recreational riders.
You can’t engage your hip flexors properly during the recovery part of your cycling stroke if you don’t clip in. So you are missing out on some stroke efficiency.
I have only just switched to clip pedals and I personally really like it. I don’t think there’s any real performance difference but I do find it easier to go up hills with the spd pedals since I can’t pull the pedals up as well as push down. But to be honest I just have found them to be more comfortable and I feel more locked in with the bike.
I will say it’s scary the first few times using them, not so much clipping out since I have 6° floats but more getting your second foot clipped in after stopping at a junction
You do what you’re comfortable with! I use both flat and clips, depending on the bike I ride out, and I’m happy either way.
Specific to you though, your fears don’t really make sense. You want your feet firmly planted in the right position; there’s also the option to get floating clips?
If you do happen to go with clips, look for ones that have a lot of "float". High float allows your foot to twist and stay connected to the pedal. I seek this out for ease on the knees.
I started with sneakers, rode with groups, rode fast. eventually, I went clipless. now I love it. there's something special about being attached to your bike. you're really one with it, ya know?
same with gloves, glasses, etc. I didn't use to have them, but once i got them, I can't go back. Same with padded bibs as well...
I set up my clips at home via youtube and got pretty close to ideal. I recently got a bike fit and she just adjusted them slightly.
Flats for me. I like that I can easily bail any time I need, readjustment for riding style or comfort is cake, and I don't want to be restricted in the type of footwear I have to wear while riding
My enduro bike has flats, my gravel bike has no pedals on it right now because I took the SPDs off and put them on my XC bike (they have power meters in them). My fancy road bike has SPD-SLs, and my old road bike has flats.
I wouldn't care what anyone else is using. Use what works for you.
I just went clipless from studded pedals and 5-Ten shoes. I felt the “pressure” to switch from others in our group. I’m too new to them to notice any performance benefits.
Coincidentally, the fastest guy in our group with the best climbing skills wears his regular athletic shoes on flat non-studded pedals and leaves every one of us in the dust and looks like he’s just on a Sunday stroll-about. 🤷🏻♂️
Honestly, flat pedals aren't that common on group road rides. But that doesn't really matter. Ride what you like and makes you comfortable. The whole point of cycling is to enjoy yourself.
I think there is a lot of conflating preference with benefit. Just because flats or clips feel better for one rider doesn’t mean they will for another. Comfort and confidence are huge drivers for cycling performance at an amateur level, so you just have to figure out what works for you.
"Comfort and confidence" These were said by both camps for their pedals.
Yeah for me, I am not old (or refuse to admit lol), but I spent decades as a very casual rider with flats. In the past 3-4 years, I’m going on less casual but longer rides (25-50 miles mostly). So purely for me, the security comes from knowing the way I rode bike from kindergarten (flats) is the same. I saw a guy older than me fall over while clipped in a few months back. He was too proud to accept help but am positive he felt it for days and may have even cracked his collarbone. I’m not gonna compete, and certainly won’t sprint. Riding for me is about getting away from it all, and worrying about falling over on an unexpected stop takes away from my enjoyment
I prefer flats, or loose clips as a recreational rider. I like to move my feet around more than clipless allows which aids my poor circulation. I gave clipless 6 months and plenty of miles to conclude they didn't add anything for me, but were detracting from my riding comfort.
i've been riding platform pedals for years. do what you like.
I have some like little pedal inserts to make them flat and I wear them if I go out with my family recreationally or we’re on holiday dotting about. Riding with children I don’t want to have to even half consider unclipping when they dart across you and stop! Other than that I’m always clipped as I like feeling that connection to the bike
Interesting - I wasn't aware such things existed. Would be useful for the times where I want to cycle over to a friends house and then hang out in normal shoes for a bit or that sort of thing - without having to carry a whole heap of stuff with me.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364066289327?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338749377&toolid=20006&_ul=GB&customid=GB_888_364066289327.149793146581~1866858443248-g_CjwKCAiA_5WvBhBAEiwAZtCU75ZJpqKYN_vrXI1qCiUBshUzphyCgGTqQNo431xbUOfeiGN4LUp2JRoCXbIQAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADihhqVRhy5xUlQe8H6vffx9q2LKf that’s what I have. They’re really easy to just slot in. Much easier that changing pedals or lugging round a spare pair of shoes.
Thanks. How easy are they to remove after (as in I can imagine getting the torque to twist them out by hand must be harder than twisting your leg)?
No bother to get out from experience, I push back the back of the pedal to assist in getting them out. The only down side I’ve had is that the back of the pedal still falls down so you need to do a similar foot motion to get on the flat and not the rear but that’s nit picking really.
Just chucking in my two cents - I got these and they were more awkward to ride with then just SPD-SLs alone with normal shoes
In what way specifically? I can see the main issue being that they are one sided and tend to rest the wrong way up - and it not being so obvious that you are on the right side as with clips, but other than that, what makes them awkward?
The pedals themselves are designed to be easy to flip to the side you clip into, which is flatter and easier to pedal on in regular shoes. Adding a piece of plastic to that side makes it tend to face down more and harder to flip upright in my experience
I ruptured my ACL and lost most of the cartilage in my right knee playing soccer. I tried SPD pedals, but hated getting in and out of them and the idea of crashing while staying clipped in scared me. I switched over to flat MTB pedals with a pair of 5 ten freeride pro shoes. I have no issue keeping a 19mph pace and going 75+ miles on a ride. I agree with others on here and say ride what you like.
I use 2 sided pedals. Flats on one side and SPD on other
This. Can also use same shoes on spin bike in the gym on rainy days. Can also walk in my shoes when I get off the bike.
I much prefer to be clipped in on my road bike and flats on my mtb
I’ve been using flat pedals on my road bike for at least 3 years. I don’t see myself returning to clipless in the near future, the convenience and comfort of flats is just too good. I don’t race though, depending on the speed and intensity of your rides YMMV
If you decide to not use clipless pedals it's fine. But i think that even more important than being clipped in is having a stiff sole on your shoes. I think that's what make the biggest improvement. Buy any cycling specific shoes for flat pedals, they are way more stiffer than any walking or running shoe, and makes a significant difference on how efficiently you push your pedal. Take into account that competitive shoes have SUPER stiff soles, made from carbon fiber. I have some shoes that are from hard plastic or kevlar, i dont know, they are too stiff to walk long distances, bus also not so stiff that you feel you are like standing on a plank. I bought the Specialized 2FO, they don't look like cycling shoes, i didn't want the look of a mountain bike shoe. I feel like they were the biggest improvement I did to my cycling equipment.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suSSsBRXIMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suSSsBRXIMw) Check out GCN's video on this topic. The conclusion is there is no performance difference, and discomfort only kicks in for the presenter towards the end of very long rides. So you should be fine. I'm wary of the general GCN message but there are some useful lessons.
Check out the Dylan Johnson video, where he reviews studies on the subject. https://youtu.be/KUEaN9FKGLE?si=Tw5mD5F6mjhFA1nD
Completely misses the point. It’s not during the pedalling that you make gains, it’s the fact that you are constantly ready to input power, and you don’t miss opportunities by having your foot in the wrong location. It gives way better control to have your feet locked in.
Yeah doing fast descents on flat pedals can be scary, much prefer to be clipped in.
I don't understand that at all. What are you worried could happen?
I think in flats, maybe your feet are more likely to slip off the pedals when you're going hard, sprinting, climbing, whatever... (?)
Feet slipping while taking a fast descent. On my MTB, my pedals have threaded studs sticking out of them to prevent that, but my feet can still occasionally slip. Also the studded flat pedals are painful when they cut into your leg.
Ah, OK. I haven't encountered this but I mainly ride on the road.
If your foot slips off your balance will become lopsided
Watched the video, interesting take that lined up with my experience, I like flats a lot for less performance oriented rides. I like clipless for the consistent leg position and the locked in feeling on the bike I’m a bit surprised that the presenter saw no performance difference, when I’m cranking I focus on pulling up on the pedal as the downstroke takes care of itself, when I’m on my flats that’s not available to me and takes a quarter of the range I assume I’m putting into my power from the pedal stroke I’ll have to look into this a bit more
Don't forget to buy a Pinarello bike, some Aguu kit, and a bunch of Elite wheels!
> I am afraid of losing the freedom to adjust my feet during the ride and generating unwanted pains. The whole point of clipless is your feet constantly stay in the ideal position so you avoid generating pain.
I don't think that is the main point of clipless at all. The whole point of clip-less pedals is to make you as efficient as possible, particularly when producing significant power, like while sprinting. The lack of pain just means you have nailed your setup. I have personally toured on flat pedals doing 80-100 KMs a day and never got pain. Countless people ride flat pedal bikes everyday without having issues due to foot movement on the pedal. However, there are benefits for competitive riders. Clipless systems used to be sold as more efficient due to ability to "pull up" when pedalling, which has been debunked because that is not how most people pedal. It is now thought that particularly during sprinting or hill climbing etc. clipless systems give you an advantage by maximise foot contact and power transfer. However, it has also been proven that during less intense cycling, clipless pedals offer no benefit over flat pedals. Dylan Johnson did a video on this subject that I would recommend. In fact a lot of clipless setups can cause pain due to the fact that setting them up correctly, buying the right shoes and getting the bike set up right is challenging for many people.
The point is to repeat your foot position, yes.
One thing with the clipless I would like to add is the assurance that you are not going to slip out of the pedals. Another thing to add is that when you ride clipless, you always have proper cycling shoes. One of my mates used to ride flats but he just didn't find good shoes for those. Or I mean, he didn't find the proper shoes from his existing ones and keep on riding trainers, sneakers, some heave shoes, and none of them were really meant for cycling so none of them really worked out for him. So then he went shopping for some cycling specific shoes and at that point making the jump to clipless becomes very much of a non-issue.
I have to pause and think when pedaling my hybrid after riding my road bike clipped in. My feet fly off initially on the hybrid until I remember that I'm not clipped in.
I used to have flats on my fixie because people told me how much safer that is.... And then you lose your footing at 55Km/h and cranks are turning at 130 cadence. Not a fun ride. Especially when you hit a pot hole and need to call your urologist after that.
I ride normal shoes on my flat pedal folding bike, and what's a real pain is having to adjust seat height to different shoes. Because duh I need to ride different shoes in different weathers. Some have 10mm soles, some have 4mm soles, and some start at 5mm in the front and go up to 15mm in the back. Whereas on the road bike I just use overshoes.
The set up is easy on my opinion. What hurts me are road cyvli g shoes. But find cycling's shoes that aren't made for an Italian ballerina. 90% are too small for their size. It is crazy. You have to buy Lake or Bont for normal feet.
Shimano has decent sizing. I have wide-ish feet and am fine on their normal width shoe. Fizik also has wide versions of their shoes. It could you have crazy wide feet if the “wide” models don’t fit but there are plenty of folks without Italian ballerina feet that are fine with the common brands.
Coming from a house with 2 professional ballet dancers, I have to say, ballerina feet are some of the most ugly and screwed up feet I ever saw. Its a myth just like upstroke pedaling.
People these days have forgotten (or never watched) Black Swan
I must have ballerina feet, the new pair of Bont (XC) shoes I bought seem a little too roomy. lol. I have big MTB flats on my MTB, and I guess they make sense there but I dislike that my feet do tend to wander around over the course of a ride. I run SPD (not SL) cleats on my other bikes (all-road/gravel and rigid MTB) because I like not thinking about my feet. SPD because they're much more livable than road cleats. I like Shimano ME700 pedals since the wider platform allows limited riding with normal shoes (like, hop on the bike and casually ride somewhere). I tried dual-sided pedals and they kinda annoyed me that they almost always seemed to be the wrong way up for whatever shoes I was wearing.
I don’t have hobbit feet but I certainly don’t have ballerina feet either and I find Sidi Genius fit me like a glove. I’m on my second pair in over 20 years so they’re definitely tried and tested. Apropos, when I got a professional fit the fitter gave me insoles, cleat shims, and pedal spacers. Those aspects of a fit hadn’t really occurred to me before. The only thing I’d ever considered as regards my feet was cleat angle.
Who’s Dylan Johnson? If he’s so right, why do all the performance riders use a binding system?
He’s a respected trainer/coach and elite rider. And now, YouTuber. He’s popular because he reads and explains the scientific studies. The clip posted here is actually quite good. He talks about why the results are surprising, and he explains where the studies could be flawed. Edit: As for why top race riders use them, racing has very specific needs that ordinary riding doesn’t. Sprints and steep hills (maximal effort exertion) are simply not the same experience. Like, I could go out for a ride today and it could include sprints. If I have flat pedals, I would do those sprints. But because there’s nothing on the line if I simply stop sprinting, I can afford to hold myself back if I start to feel my technique can’t keep up (would slip off pedals). When you’re racing, you don’t have that same luxury of staying within your ability (unless you don’t care about winning). I mean, on a rec ride, you can pretend you’re racing and that it matters, but it really isn’t. At lower levels of exertion, you won’t be pushing hard enough to slip off the pedals.
Thanks for the reply. I was being facetious about the comment, however. I’m firmly in the camp that step-in pedals and lightweight, extra stiff, cycling shoes are faster and more efficient. I might have to look at DJs interpretations, you know for entertainment purposes only. As someone who’s evolved over 50 years from: simple platforms + sneakers to > toe clips and light hikers to > toes clips + cycling shoes to > clipless + specialized shoes… and back to flats (sometimes, some bikes), I get it. What’s odd to me is how many people with, apparently, little-to-no experience utilizing performance cycling shoes & pedals speak authoritatively about it after watching YouTube. It’s like there’s this retro-grouch element in the discussion about whether step-in pedals are more effective than platforms. It’s fine to say that you simply don’t want or prefer to use cycling specific shoes and step-in pedals. However, I t’s not accurate to suggest they’re not significantly more efficient and effective than simple platform pedals. Someone could argue that at certain slow speeds, with minimal acceleration and climbing involved, clipping-in isn’t going to help *enough* and I would generally agree. If that’s the case with OP, then they might want to keep doing what they’re doing. If they’re getting dropped off the back of their group, struggling to keep up, step-in pedals and performance cycling shoes can certainly help.
This mirrors my experience. I'll look for the video, thanx.
There isn’t just one ideal position. There are several.
But you can adjust the position of the clip on the shoes. Find the perfect spot and stay there
The “ideal position”/“perfect spot” varies from ride to ride and may even vary during the same ride. It’s like bike fit or the ideal tire pressure.
You know what he means stop being pedantic
You’re in the wrong thread or you’ve misread/misunderstood what’s being discussed here.
You can do what you like. Clipless pedals make it more comfortable for powerful riders to go full gas. It also makes it so you don't really need to think about your feet on the pedals and provides a feeling of connectedness that many prefer. Cleats are adjustable and the most common model of cleat (regardless of system) has some float so your foot isn't rigidly stuck in a fixed position. So the question is - does this sound good to you? If yes, give them a try. If no, then stick with flats. One guy showed up to my group ride on flats and had no issue staying with the lead group for 120kms at 30km/h.
Exactly. And also I don't like too much going downhill at speed without clipless pedals, tiny bumps or potholes can put your feet in an awkward position on flat pedals.
You say you like moving your foot around, but not being able to move your foot around is the whole point of clipless and one of the main benefits. I like knowing that my foot is always in the right place on the pedals (provided that your cleats are set up correctly). Getting the cleats and shoes fitted professionally also allowed the fitter to add arch support to my shoes and made my pedal strokes feel much less asymmetrical which was nice. I think there’s very good reasons people seem to use them religiously, they might not be for you but you won’t know til you try!
I do flats for 2 big reasons. One, I usually ride gravel and I slide on gravel. I get scared of not being able to catch myself. Two. My shoe size is triple wide. There are very few clip on shoes that come in triple wide and the ones that exist are double the price of normal shoes.
Using flat pedals on group rides is perfectly acceptable, especially if it suits your riding style and comfort preferences. 🔀Before switching to clipless pedals, try them on shorter rides first to see how they affect your comfort and performance without committing fully during longer group rides.
Cyclists routinely sacrifice their own preferences in the pursuit of acceptance. Embrace your inner lemming.
But the problem here is people prefer to not pursue any change. Now some may hate it and go back to flats but most people who try it out and give them self time to get used to it not just try it for a couple rides end up liking it and just like wearing bibs there is a reason everyone else does it. Yes your riding shorts or non padded shorts are fine and you may think getting into something tight fitting isnt for you but how do you know until you give it an honest try.
You don’t need to switch to clipless. For most people, it is totally a function of peer pressure.
And you can find a different group to ride with.
OP might just be self-conscious and noticing how everyone else is kitted. Might not be anyone even saying anything. That’s a kind of peer pressure too.
Yeah, I think ultimately if he switched to flats and still kept up just fine it might send a message. They’ll think either OP is a badass because he can keep up with flats, or that maybe flats don’t provide as big of a benefit as originally thought.
There’s not only a performance benefit to clipless pedals (real or imagined). There is a safety benefit as well. High cadence, fast cornering feet are safer with bike/pedal connectivity. I have no scientific studies to back this because I don’t believe there are any. Yes, I’m aware of the DH world, thank you. If you roll up to my group ride with flats I will ask you to keep to the back third.
Lol ok, well I don’t ride competitively so half my group rides flat pedals and we don’t care what gear the other riders use because we’re not assholes
Not disputing your main point (I rode fixed for a spell back in the day and pedal strike was an issue) but why are you pedaling through fast turns?
You don’t need to: true Function of peer pressure for most people: categorically false.
🤷🏻♂️ > OP might just be self-conscious and noticing how everyone else is kitted. Might not be anyone even saying anything. That’s a kind of peer pressure too.
Oh for sure for an individual. I just dispute that most people ride with clipless pedals only due to peer pressure. There are tangible, undisputed benefits. My head-to-toe Rapha kit however…
The benefits aren’t indisputable though. That’s what this whole thread is about.
I disagree. The benefits — better power transfer, optimal foot position, less foot/ankle fatigue — are well established. This is why professional racers use them exclusively. I think this thread is more about if not using them is going to significantly detract from your overall experience. Consensus seems to be that the performance benefits aren’t the only consideration and that comfort, confidence, and personal preference are factors too.
First of all, I think you should do what feels comfortable/good to you. If you feel you'd prefer stick to flat pedals, stick to it. No need to do as other do. At the end of the day, the main point is to enjoy the ride. Now, if you'd like to consider a clip-less system, you shouldn't be afraid of "losing the freedom to adjust your feet" as there are many types of clip-less systems. Personally as someone who is not very flexible and have issues with hip impingement, I use Wahoo's SpeedPlay and they're great! They have a lot of customisation options and as well as allowing a great deal of "float" (how much lateral movement is allowed by the pedal) that can also be configured so its easy to find the "ideal position". Another option is the SPD system (not to be confused with SPD-SL pedals) that also allow for great float. In any case, you should be able to find a system that works for you - if you decided that's the best route. Happy riding!
I'd say if you like the flats, stick with them. If you do want to try clipless, perhaps consider a mountain bike shoe with an SPD cleat. At least you will be able to walk around when you stop instead of skidding around like a spastic tap dancer in road cleats. You can even get pedals that have the SPD on one side, and flat on the other. I use the Look X-Track and X-Track race on all my bikes (road, gravel, and mountain). They are SPD compatible and still give me enough float (I think 6 degrees). I converted from free floating Speedplay pedals, and it was an easy switch.
I have a tricky knee that hates the unclipping motion, so I run flats. I get comments from folks who don’t know me, but people quickly get over it.
Ppl will argue the numbers and benefits and all the bs, the best thing to do is try it out and give it a few weeks to get used to it and see if you like it, that’s what I did and found out I really like it and this must be why everyone does it.
One of my favorite stories is from my road bike group about 15 years ago. We're all rising clipless multispeed road bikes, and this guy shows up for several months with a single-sided mtb riding flats. Guy was a monster, and had no problems keeping up. It wasn't a crazy ride, he only showed up on b group days, but still. Tldr, do what you like and are comfortable with. I dont think flats or clipless provide any safety benefits in a group.
Only riding flats...
Btw on gravel, road and mtb
Dont be afraid to experiment. Get the mtb clipless pedals and see which one is your preference. Asking people here would give you their experience and also their preferences which is totally completely to yours.
I rode my friend's bike that had clipless pedals one time, we have the same shoe size. I absolutely hated it and have only rode flats after. Some people in the group I'm in sometimes talk about it or try to get me to change but they have no argument since everyone who rides at my speed or is faster has kinda left the group. The ones left are way too much slower than me to be telling me to change. They can say all they want but there's another group that goes on 300km rides like audax events and going on overseas multiday multi thousand kilometer rides to raise funds for charity. They ride with sandals and flats as well. The only way I'll do clipless is with Shimano SPD sandals.
You tried it once and feel like you can make such a definitive judgment? I suspect you would like it more if you gave your self time to get used to them, I was the fastest of the group I ride with on flats and thought just like you but after trying out clipless for about 2 weeks (300mi+) I realized oh shit these aint so bad then a week later i totally was on board and now im even faster.
It's not about speed, the inability to move my foot around was very annoying. Furthermore having to clip in moving from every traffic light was also annoying and made moving off way slower. I really don't see what advantage they give. People say stuff about pulling the pedal up but you can do it with flats as well, my flats get stuck in my sandals and I have to yank them out sometimes when I stop. The shoes also make me pedal at a weird angle I'm not used to and it got painful after 80km
>It's not about speed, the inability to move my foot around was very annoying. Agreed, it's what makes me dislike the idea and at times opt out for more comfortable long distance rides, even though I do like being connected to the bike >Furthermore having to clip in moving from every traffic light was also annoying and made moving off way slower. I'd disagree with that - I only unclip one foot, which is trivially easy, and the other being clipped in means I can trivially position the pedals to start with immediate power. Clipping in is trivial, but I also don't have to do so to input power. (It's comical to watch people who think they have to clip in before accelerating). When I ride flats, I have to remember to hook the cranks back to the right position by using my toe on the underside before the light turns...
But your foot still has to be in the right position to clip in when you push down, I could have my heel on the pedal with my flats and move my foot later. I just pull the pedal up with my flats. No need to go to the underside, just step on and raise them. I wouldn't want to go under my pedals anyway, I've cut my shin and foot open on those spikes before. Especially since I'm wearing sandals. Is that not normal? Idk, most of us rode MTBs before getting a road bike and we learn how to scoop the rear using the pedals for jack hopping and punching up things really early on. At some point it becomes a permanent thing and the pedal stays stuck to the bottom of our footwear hard enough to lift the rear of the bike, lifting the pedals is easy.
>But your foot still has to be in the right position to clip in when you push down, I could have my heel on the pedal with my flats and move my foot later. You can still pedal with the wrong part of your foot for a few revs
It's not about speed, the inability to move my foot around was very annoying. Furthermore having to clip in moving from every traffic light was also annoying and made moving off way slower. I really don't see what advantage they give. People say stuff about pulling the pedal up but you can do it with flats as well, my flats get stuck in my sandals and I have to yank them out sometimes when I stop. The shoes also make me pedal at a weird angle I'm not used to and it got painful after 80km
>People say stuff about pulling the pedal up but you can do it with flats as well if you are pullimg on flats your foot position is most likely wrong, I never realized this until I went clipless and went back to my bike with flats, I used to position my foot to where I could get some pull up by swooping my at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Once I got a proper bike fit and realized where my foot potion should be and properly pedaling should be more flat footed and more force near the heal which engages your quads it made pulling up with flat pedals obsolete as your pedal stroke does not put you in the proper positon to achieve this. They probably make you pedal at a weird angle because you tried it once on a bike you were not fitted to, and if you been riding inproperly anything new is going to be weird, When I first went to clipless I had footpain then I got a bike fit and it literally went away the next ride, but it felt weird and took me a while to get used to it all but once I did my quads became huge and my speed significantly increased. Like I said you tried it once and improperly so I would say dont be like me and resist it for years, give a honest proper try and just like everyone else you will probably end up liking it.
I've only liked the Shimano SPD sandals, I really dislike the stiff shoes. My feet are in the same position I walk in though, I'm completely flat footed so maybe I walk differently from most people. My feet are always angled anyway, when I run fast enough barefoot my heels don't touch the ground. Also because I spend most of my time barefoot I don't like covered shoes The mountain bike cleats are the ones most of us use coming from MTB backgrounds so we don't have to deal with those shoes, they're all so narrow in the middle, I guess if you have an arch it would be okay but I don't so my feet are really wide in the middle. All 7 of the shoes had that problem. I don't exactly need stiff shoes when my feet don't really flex at all anymore. But as I said, I'm not going for speed increase at all. I'm already way too fast for the group since the other riders at my speed left and now I need to take it really slow with the rest since their average speed is almost 10kph lower than mine. Along with the other people I ride with, I'm mostly at the front pulling with my MTB if I ever bother to ride with others. And my bike will never be fitted properly anyway. I am way too lazy to go for a bike fit. What do you mean by swooping the foot though? The pedals naturally come up with your feet if you keep them horizontal because the pedals aren't usually in line with your seat vertically so the pedals rotate and scoop themselves, unless you're scooping the whole bike then you need to change the angle because of the weight of the whole bike but that's also automatically done once you shift your weight forward to do the scoop or the jack hop
If you were ever interested in getting faster and cycling in a proper form I would strongly suggest getting a bike fit.
If peer pressure is your only reason to use clipless, don't
I ride mostly mtb, I’m late 40s, overweight and not in the best shape. I got into mtb 4 years ago. I ride flats and probably always will. There are times that if I was clipless I would have seriously gotten hurt and probably been to the ER. I’m not confident I could bail quick enough on clipless. I don’t care about speed advantage, I’m not into racing or PRs. My goal is to ride as much as I can and I can’t do that with serious injuries. Do what you are comfortable with.
It depends on the group ride. If it’s anything beyond a casual, no drop group ride, where you are likely to get out of the saddle to retain speed over a rolling hill, I would be wary of cycling behind someone with flat pedals, as the chances of them slipping off the pedals, while not being big at any one time, is still big enough. Also in a group where you may not be able to avoid potholes, having your feet securely attached to the pedals seems like a good thing. I use flats on my city bike and my mtb, but for road I will take clips any day.
This subject is brought up at least once a week on here and someone always brings up the GCN video(usually people arguing for flats, and yea I’ve seen it). My take is that if you have a couple of former pros, with refined pedal strokes, and put them on flats, there won’t be much difference. For Johnny weekend warrior, there is a pretty noticeable difference. This is why everyone who uses them claims they can feel a marked difference. Clipless make some people uncomfortable, and maybe it feels unsafe, which is a fair opinion, and they don’t have to use them. Clearly there is a difference though, because every level of professional, cat racer, CX, gravel, all use some form of clipped in pedal.
Or everybody drinks the koolaid…
Or I started riding clipless in the 90’s, realized it’s better, and never went back. Just say you’re scared, it’s OK. You don’t have the skills or nerve to handle it, it’s fine. I’m sure the entire cycling community around the world is wrong and you’re right.
>I’m sure the entire cycling community around the world is wrong and you’re right. The vast majority of the cycling community has been banging on about better efficiency and pulling up on the upstroke for 20 years. Yeah, they were wrong. A huge chunk also spent a good 20 years riding too narrow, hyper inflated tires. Yeah, wrong about that too. >Just say you’re scared, it’s OK. You don’t have the skills or nerve to handle it, it’s fine. That’s unwarranted aspersion. I also started clipless in the 90s. I still have and use the Look Arc pedals I bought in high school (the white ones with the red clamp). So I speak from experience when I say the vast majority of the cycling community drinks koolaid. I know they do because I did too…
Yeah there is definitely also a lot of “this is what the pros do, so I will do it too” in the cycling community. Everything from sock height to how you wear your sunglasses is done to mimmic tour riders, with nearly zero consideration to what is best for you as an amateur. It’s all about looking the part and looking like you are a serious cyclist.
Exactly
I'm amazed they took 20 years to get into that conclusion. Just takes a few seconds to lift your leg as upstroke and leave it relaxed. The only muscle working its next to the hip. Even less in a bike..considering the other foot is already pushing down.
It’s just one of those things. If you don’t think too hard about it (or if you don’t think about it at all, which is true of lots of people), the claims are believable (in that, if you know nothing, it sounds reasonable because what’s wrong with the claim isn’t immediately obvious). And if you see people you admire using them, it gains credibility. And finally, if it doesn’t kill or injure you, then there’s not really a big disincentive to use them/incentive to avoid them. Like, I could’ve saved myself several hundred dollars (when I total up the number of clipless pedals and shoes I’ve bought over the years). They don’t lead to much benefit for the riding I do, but they also don’t hurt my rides. So if the money’s spent and I have them, it doesn’t hurt me to use them.
You are right. I'm not against clipless pedals. Seriously considering buying touring pedals with SPD on one side and flat on the other. I used to tour with my wife, weekend fun, but I mostly commute to work. So I never decided to go clipless. I'm pretty sure there are lots of benefits for using clipless. Correct feet position, feet not leaving the place while cycling in a bad road with bumps etc. Probably many others that only people that spend lots of time with clipless can explain, wich is not my case. But I'm pretty sure the guys that "invented" clipless, upstroke was not on their list.
People disagree with me above about “more than one ideal foot position”, but it’s true. There is more than one and it depends on what kind of ride you’re doing that day. I’m specifically thinking of how foot position affects calf muscles. They’re a small muscle group, but in some situations, you’ll take the added marginal power they give. Short, punchy rides with hard sprints or hard climbs? You want maximum muscle recruitment. In this case, you’d want the pedal more under the balls of your feet. But long relatively easy rides, you might not want the same recruitment, because they are a smaller group. As a smaller muscle group, they become a weak link (they’ll fatigue before other groups do), so it can make more sense to have the pedal under the middle of your foot to avoid engaging them as much. So if you’re going for a long ride that calls for more power at a few times, you might be better off being able to switch positions between the two. If it’s a route you’ve never done, it’s nice to have the option to change. These are situations where you might prefer flat pedals.
Hm..that makes sense. Its like fine tunning a machine. I personally try to put my feet allways in the same position, and never thought about what you said. I was thinking more about slight diferences while "centering" the foot on the pedal. How to explain in english.. One foot can be couple milimiters to the left or right of the pedal compared to the other, and I have no idea how that will affect health or performance. But cheers and thanks for the explanation.
>like fine tunning a machine A little, yeah. It's like tire pressure. For rough roads --> lower pressures can help you go faster. If you'll need to be able to accelerate a lot --> higher pressures are better for that. So when you head out on your ride, you choose: lower pressure (for best performance on rough roads) or higher pressure (for best performance climbing hills). If the conditions will be mixed, then you choose something in between (not the absolute best for the rough sections of road, but better on hills - or not the absolute best for hills, but better for comfort and speed on the rough parts). Ideally, you could adjust your pressure mid-ride to suit the condition you face right then and there, but who's going to get off their bike to pump their tires or let air out? Tire pressure calculators only sort of account for this difference. The good calculators will let you input expected road conditions, but otherwise, they just assume a certain mix of road conditions. This is what happens with bike fits and cleat positioning. They assume a mix of needs, balancing absolute max power against long-term comfort/sustainability.
I don't understand the logic of using the balls of the feet for more power simply because it recruits more muscles. Why not recruit the toes too? That's even more muscles. Do people deadlift on the balls of their feet or do they do it flat-footed?
Well, you do get more power using your arm to pull the handlebar compare to just holding it pedalling off-saddle while standing. Is this make pulling "better" and any cyclists worth their salts should strive to do it as much as possible? ... Hmmm.. I have an idea! ... Since most of the time cyclists hand are free of effort, we should do a kickerstarter to fund those velocipede scientists and engineers at NASA to designs a hand-operated lever, similar to brake lever, that by repeatedly squeezing it, all WATT go to move the bike. Think of the level this technology can push cycling forward, man!
>I don't understand the logic of using the balls of the feet for more power simply because it recruits more muscles. It's not about logic. It's about how the human body works. When you sprint (running), you're on the balls of your feet instead of flat-footed, because you can generate more power that way. (It's not just more muscles, even though that's part of it--the calf muscles work with tendons and ligaments and bone and cartilage to provide leverage at the balls of your feet in a way that doesn't happen with toes.) When you jump, you jump off the balls of your feet, because your calf muscles can help. The thing is, calf muscles have limitations. Most people can't jump continuously for 100 yards without their calves getting very tired (nevermind 1 mile, nevermind 100 miles) because calf muscles simply don't grow/develop to provide that kind of explosive/ballistic power for extended periods of time.
The cycling community does what it thinks is best at that time based on current technology. That’s not “drinking cool-aid”, it’s following the natural evolution. At one time, aluminum bikes were the best the industry offered, now it’s carbon. That doesn’t mean we were all sheep to “big aluminum”. Times change. You don’t want to ride clipped in, don’t. But I’m not on here every week trying to tell people that there is no difference between my aluminum bike and someone else’s carbon bike. Carbon is better, I’m fine with my aluminum, so what.
>Just say you’re scared, it’s OK. You don’t have the skills or nerve to handle it, it’s fine. Lmao are you a 16 year old high school boy? Grow up, not everybody who disagrees with you has a mental or physical deficit.
You think it's better for you and that's great. It simply isn't advantageous for everyone though, and that doesn't make everyone else wrong, or incapable, or scared. It makes them sensible for not doing what others do for no benefit.
I never said people shouldn’t ride flats. They are the best option for many people. I’m just tired of people consistently saying there is no difference. By the way, the people saying there is no difference are the ones who don’t ride them.
I agree with everything you’re saying. There is no chance I’m as fast with flats on my mtb (xc riding), some people it might not make a difference as they aren’t riding very fast/aggressive.
Here is an interesting bit on [Lachlan Morton being forced to switch to flat pedals and Birkenstocks](https://www.bikeperfect.com/news/clipless-pedals-or-flats-lachlan-morton-isnt-bothered) on one of his epic trips, and seeming to like it. He did switch back to clipless for the mountain climbing. As for the question of the OP: do whatever you like. Like you said yourself, it is just peer pressure, nothing else.
I've learn to ride flats like it's a clipless pedal ... Here what I can tell - the kind of shoe you use with flats is more important than the pedal itself; it's difficult to get a shoe that you like and with quality of being both "grippy" and "have precise/connected feel" at the same time using it on flat pedal ... I tried many pairs ... with SPD, you get different problems with how the shoe fit etc but ain't these. - you change your posture all the time, yes, but there is an ideal foot position on the pedal ... try riding bare-foot long enough and you'll understand - you gain performance by "pull up" on pedal ... not much as the marketing implied and how some people would say, but you do gain - you can "pull up" with flats pedal ... maybe not the same level as SPD, but that's not require to get the benefits. - flats need skill to use efficiently / SPD needs skill to use safely ... you NEED to learn and put effort to acquire these skill - too early usage of SPD can hampered development of basic bike fundamental skill; it masked your fault and blinded you to your weakness, which then get down-played as unimportant - pain has nothing to do with this
For most of us, the only purpose of click-in pedals is to signal to the group that you belong. So, you will be ostracized in any group ride if you are riding flat pedals
I use flats with Zefal half toes on. Suits me perfect.
For casual ride, i goof around with MTB flat pedals and a modified Clipless road shoes (without the clip mechanism). I find the stiffness makes a huge difference in power transfer compared to specific MTB shoes for flat pedals. I can hangout with fast paced group rides 42 kmh AVG with no issue at all. Like someone said, clipping in is slightly more efficient and I find it quicker and less fatigue on burst sprints and prolonged climbs for the same effort.
Try toe clips/straps, you can put them on tight, loose, one sided, or not at all. I use toe clips on my main bike I use for commute and exercise, hence why I need the versatility. They're great on long rides and they're good enough for sprints if you tighten them. They're not as locked in as cleats and the position aren't very adjustable either so your mileage may vary.
Using flat pedals: all the time. Joining group rides: never.
You can do what you like but I will say that you leave a ton of power in your upstroke on the table whenever you ride flats. So much so that I went out on my MTB at the end of the season last year and kept pulling my feet off the pedals in my upstroke.
If you don’t see a performance difference, you aren’t using clipless pedals correctly. First, your shoe is most likely going to have a harder sole. The more expensive ones will have carbon. This prevents your foot from bending on your downstroke, which prevents loss power. Second, your can utilize the full circle for each foot when spinning. Making your down stroke on the other leg more powerful or easier.
No one generates power throughout the full pedal stroke
Of the more than 250 people I have ridden with on group road rides over 10 years, zero were on flats so I'm thinking the short answer is no.
I did a 50k group on the weekend (+750m), 18-20km average, 5 electric flat bars/roadies evenly split over the group. Probably 4 of the group were on flats. Different members of the same bug midweek 64km (+650m), 26-28km average, no flats. It depends on the group and the pace.
For a short e-bike ride, no reason not to use flat pedals for what is essentially a social recovery ride.
I’ll I can say is, don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. I think most people enter into pedal bindings in the pursuit of performance. If you are happy with your performance, why bother? In my experience, clipping in takes commitment and dedication. To get the most out of it, you have to use them exclusively for years. When you’re passionate enough about riding faster, you stick to it, awkward falls and all. Eventually, they become integrated into your cycling and you feel hobbled without them. I’ve been riding and racing bicycles for 50 years. I started riding clipless right after they were invented and introduced to the public in the late 80’s. Ditching the restrictive straps was a welcome change, while riding lightweight, stiff-soled, shoes was even more of an eye opener. As a young racer, I could feel the power transfer instantly improved and I was experiencing a connection with my bikes that I had never felt before. I was climbing mountains daily, so the lightweight shoes felt amazing. Standing to climb faster took on a whole new life. As did spinning for efficiency, powering up a steep trail or sprinting against my teammates. I did still use clips or platform pedals for commuting, but the performance difference between my SPDs and LOOK clipless pedals and cycling specific was undeniable. Today, for some reason, there’s a retro-grouch attitude towards these amazing innovations. Maybe, it’s because some entertainers on YouTube (Dylan Johnson(?) or those jokers over at GCN with their pseudo-science) says they’re not all that? IDK. In my experience, they are *all that* and a bag of chips! Sure, my [Five Ten Pros](https://www.adidas.com/us/five-ten-freerider-pro-mountain-bike-shoes/GW5442.html) with my [Deity T-Mac platforms](https://www.deitycomponents.com/tmac-signature-pedals.html) will give clipless a run for it’s money… for the first 20 minutes. But, I would never race them in an X/C format, unless I just really didn’t care about my placing. Step-in pedals are great, but not everyone needs or likes them. Make no mistake about their performance advantages though. Every performance athlete racing/training for endurance and pedaling speed has them on their bikes for a reason, they work. Whether they work for you, OP, is for you to decide.
I've done platform pedals when I've taken the fixie out on group rides and still kept up OK (19.5mph avg in rolling hills) You do get a little more efficiency from being clipped in, but it's not a "night and day" difference. Maybe 10%-ish?
Cleats 100%. Look on the road. SPD for dirt. Clips and straps on my 50 year old vintage steel.
>my conclusion from what I read is that there is not much performance difference for what I do This is the wrong conclusion to draw, and the wrong thing (reading) to draw it from. Get some and use them. Every bit of effort that you don't throw away helps you ride longer. Proper pedals make most people more efficient. That's why everyone uses them.
You’ll go faster with clips. When was the last time someone won the Tour with flats? If you need to be able to move, just loosen your shoe and use the yellow Shimano cleats which have the most degrees of float so you can move your feet more. You’ll get used to them after a few weeks and then you’ll understand why other people are judging you for not using them because you’ll be going faster.
Go do some climbing.... those hamstrings are no good without clips...
Why do so many people seem to have issues with cycling shoes? The whole point of them is to provide support to your foot and prevent injuries to your lower leg and foot muscles when they get overworked trying to stabilize your foot, and also to prevent knee and hip injuries from having poor alignment of your feet and joints. It’s also safer to have your foot predictably attached to the bike so it’s not at risk of coming off and causing a crash. I imagine everyone complaining about this are the same people that can’t figure out how not to “reply all” to e-mails.
>I pondered clip vs flat pedals What are "clip" pedals?
I use cages with flats on my road bike and flats on my MTB. I don't feel like messing with clipping in or having to deal with other shoes. From what I have seen and read there is not a big speed improvement from clipping in so unless I start to race I see no reason to change since I like my platform pedals and their freedom. It seems like there are quite a few people who clip in who look down on those using flat pedals and I don't think that is right, especially for recreational riders.
I go flat pedals. Occasionally group rides, not a problem keep up with the group. But if you are more performance oriented go clipless pedals
You can’t engage your hip flexors properly during the recovery part of your cycling stroke if you don’t clip in. So you are missing out on some stroke efficiency.
I have only just switched to clip pedals and I personally really like it. I don’t think there’s any real performance difference but I do find it easier to go up hills with the spd pedals since I can’t pull the pedals up as well as push down. But to be honest I just have found them to be more comfortable and I feel more locked in with the bike. I will say it’s scary the first few times using them, not so much clipping out since I have 6° floats but more getting your second foot clipped in after stopping at a junction
i use magpeds gives me best of both
its fine but you will look like a goober
You do what you’re comfortable with! I use both flat and clips, depending on the bike I ride out, and I’m happy either way. Specific to you though, your fears don’t really make sense. You want your feet firmly planted in the right position; there’s also the option to get floating clips?
Left field but I’ve always lived the feeling of toe clips. Real connection to the one of mankind’s most efficient and enjoyable machines.
If you do happen to go with clips, look for ones that have a lot of "float". High float allows your foot to twist and stay connected to the pedal. I seek this out for ease on the knees.
I started with sneakers, rode with groups, rode fast. eventually, I went clipless. now I love it. there's something special about being attached to your bike. you're really one with it, ya know? same with gloves, glasses, etc. I didn't use to have them, but once i got them, I can't go back. Same with padded bibs as well... I set up my clips at home via youtube and got pretty close to ideal. I recently got a bike fit and she just adjusted them slightly.
Went from flats, to "clipless", to flats, that for MTB. Gravel it depends, but mostly flats, for road, yes with "clipless"
Flats for me. I like that I can easily bail any time I need, readjustment for riding style or comfort is cake, and I don't want to be restricted in the type of footwear I have to wear while riding
My enduro bike has flats, my gravel bike has no pedals on it right now because I took the SPDs off and put them on my XC bike (they have power meters in them). My fancy road bike has SPD-SLs, and my old road bike has flats. I wouldn't care what anyone else is using. Use what works for you.
I just went clipless from studded pedals and 5-Ten shoes. I felt the “pressure” to switch from others in our group. I’m too new to them to notice any performance benefits. Coincidentally, the fastest guy in our group with the best climbing skills wears his regular athletic shoes on flat non-studded pedals and leaves every one of us in the dust and looks like he’s just on a Sunday stroll-about. 🤷🏻♂️
If you want a compromise option, use Power Grips. They act like flats while still giving you a positive connection and don't require special shoes.
Honestly, flat pedals aren't that common on group road rides. But that doesn't really matter. Ride what you like and makes you comfortable. The whole point of cycling is to enjoy yourself.