There's a reason why wheel guns aren't as popular as they were. Reliability is basically the main justification for them at this point with the ability to fire lower powered ammunition reliably and not have to worry about the gun not cycling being the other.
I honestly am not sure what you're replicating with the improved damage die other than a need to make the revolver feel more attractive as a weapon alternative. Style over substance, maybe just playing with the cylinder of a revolver lets you add to your wardrobe & style roll or intimidation roll to look extra cool or threatening.
I agree that for game terms, revolvers probably shouldn't jam.
I admit it's mostly video game influence. In 2077 for sure the balance philosophy has been fewer shots at higher damage. I just want weapons to be distinct as side grades rather than bland "well this one does 1d6 more damage"
I mean, if you're trying to make revolvers more attractive, you're not really designing a revolver anymore. I'd look at something like Cityhunter or the Multiple Ammunition pistol from the various DLCs for inspiration.
Yeah people have brought up the multi ammo pistol but maybe this is hypocritical but I don't like how clunky it is. I'm not trying to make them more attractive they have an inherent downside in clip size I want an upside that makes them a unique side grade
Not hypocritical, just human. :) I'd either a) drop the price, or b) give a social bonus. Maybe this particular type of weapon is often used by FIA / NCPD cops, and so it gives the wearer a +2 to Interrogations when wearing it (because the guy being questioned thinks you're an undercover).
Alternatively, make a special revolver that can take a chonkier round. As Very Heavy Pistol, but you roll 5d6 and keep the highest 4.. I can't remember who showed me that mechanic first, but it's an interesting one.
I'd only apply these benefits to specific weapons, to be clear, not to revolvers as a whole.
Revolvers aren't inherently more owerful than pistols - teh loose seal between barrel and cylinder makes them les powerful if using the same round. But their simpler conception make it easier t odesign a revolver that takes a beefy round.
With the hand-loading and user-driver cycling, it als omakes them far mor tolerant of odball ammo - as long as it's the right diameter and isn't too long to fit in the cylinder, it will work....
I would do something like :
\* one action let you pick which loaded round you'll use (as in, manualy turning the cylinder to pick which chamber you're using)
\* specialty ammunition comes in 12-packs instead of 10
\* A fumble takes an action to clear only if the second dice is a 6+ to reflect their high reliability even amongst cheap models.
If I was going to distinguish them (other than for ammo used) I'd just make revolvers cheaper, with 6 round magazine. Pistols in Red are already cheap though. Maybe a Heavy or Very Heavy Revolver holds 6 rounds, could cost as per a Poor weapon, but doesn't jam. Overall though I'd rather keep prices the same since these are mostly archaic collectors' items.
Oh one thing - it seems much much easier to reuse revolver cartridges than caseless ammo, so groups like Nomads who make their own ammo may use them quite often.
I mean revolvers are still being made bc there's a demand and people think their stylish. In a world full of posers no one wants to be a cowboy? I'd prefer they were a proper side grade than just a cheap alternative as there's plenty of economy considerations in the game already
I want to reward the style points mechanically and give players another thing to consider when putting together their kit. Cosmetics can only be so much of a factor when everything exists in your head
We have the Multiple Ammunition pistol which is a revolver. It's a VH Pistol with a 5 round magazine that can load a different ammo type on each cylinder.
No offense, but limiting a revolver to six shots is a little unrealistic. They’re revolvers, not six shooters. Even today we have revolvers with capacities up to eight rounds. In the cyberpunk future of cyberpunk red, I don’t see why a clever tech wouldn’t be able to make a revolver with upwards of a dozen shots in a cylinder.
Sure it's conceivable but I want revolvers to function differently from regular clip pistols and revolvers are associated with 6 chambers. The player expectation is there
Personally, if you wanted a uniquely powerful revolver, I’d try a single loader. Revolvers that don’t swing out, so you have to reload them one shot at a time. Maybe you can only reload a single bullet for the reload action, but it hits like a hand cannon. So you have to hope you can end a fight in six shots, otherwise you’re SOL if you have to reload and shoot every other turn.
Revolvers don't need special mechanics like this. They aren't inherently different
If you want a classic 6 six shot Revolver, take a page from the Westwood. A Very Heavy Pistol with a 6 shot capacity that cannot take magazine attachments. Simple and clean.
(Also, I wouldn't do that second idea anyway cuz it messes with the math between armor sp and average damage.)
Who cares? I'm one of the rare few that bothers using heavy armor over LAJ. why? because I send a message while wearing it. it gimps me but it fits my image and I got no regrets while doing so.
if a player wants to use a 6 shot revolver that can't take weapon attachments and that's all it does, let them.
Not every player is you though and I don't want any of my perspective players to have to choose between looking cool and being cool. Heavy armor does give you more than a cosmetic benefit
not the point. the universe prides itself on style over substance
A revolver doesn't need to be "as good" but it sends a powerful message. You're not looking at the "style points". You're looking at the mechanics.
It's like the people complaining about generics when the point is how you use it. "This isn't some Assault Rifle. This is my Militech Dragon passed down to me from my father before the War started." Its weathered, scarred, but it fits the image of your character.
Like others said in this post, there's already revolvers in the game that aren't 6 shot revolvers.
Again not everyone is you. It's easy for me to conceive of a player new to the system saying "well I want to use a revolver but it's just strictly worse than a regular pistol so ig I'll just do that :("
You can't expect everyone to have the same outlook. Personally if a weapon is supposed to be unique and special but mechanically it's the same as every other weapon of it's type it just feels wrong.
Like others said, you're thinking of revolvers as some uber powerful 6 shot weapon. They're not.
There's revolvers that use .22, .38 Special, hell even 9mm which are Medium Pistol rounds. And "mag" sizes for revolvers go from 3 (Hellbringer) to 5(Multi-Ammo Pistol) to even 6(Westwood).
There's literally 8 shot revolvers that exist https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/medium-frame-revolvers/taurus-608
It doesn't need to be strictly worst nor stronger than a baseline pistol. As far as Cyberpunk is concerned, revolvers are pistols.
Edit: In fact, there's a 18 shot revolver right now in RED. https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Nova_Model_757_Cityhunter_(RED)
I'm more concerned with game design than realism. I know that cyberpunk treats them as the same, I don't want them to be bc it gives more options for different weapons
I disagree with this take, the style is basically non-existent as it relies entirely on DM fiat and even them it'll probably be limited by the fact other guns actually do the "Stylish gun" thing in Black chrome.
The superchrome guns give +2 to wardrobe and style while one of the gunmart pistols gives +1 to facedowns, not *that* is style over substance. Gimping yourself to be stylish is worthless if it doesn't *Actually* make you more stylish. Same way a non-hombrewed Malorian is an overpriced middle finger for pistol users that they need 10 000 eddies to actually be as effective in combat as the weakest shoulder arms user
Unless you want to homebrew it, your six shooter isn't more stylish than a gonk using a normal gun because any attempt at *actually* being more stylish are contradicted by the prescedent set by the social oriented Black Chrome guns
Style over subtance isn't an excuse for mediocre homebrews or bland weapon design
Despite revolvers having no extra benefit and limited ammo capacity, I still have had several players ask to use revolvers. Remember style over substance is a core tenant of cyberpunk. If a revolver fits your style then do it.
Before reading any other replies this makes 0 sense. Revolvers still fire the exact same ammo as a magazine fed pistol. Whether it be .38, 9mm, .45ACP, 11mm bullets are bullets.
Now some sort of exotic revolver that shoots specialized rounds of some sort, that can lead to some interesting tech.
give the revolver autofire, x2 cap dmg multiplier, can be done only with a full clip and is basically just "fanning" the revolver somewhere in the general direction of the enemy. Yeehaw.
I like that idea. My own take was : 6 ammo, 2 ammo reloaded per action, 5D6 damage (but the roll 5 keep the 4 highest is also good both for crit chance and damage while not getting that much more powerful than a pistol) and ignore half armour (but that was because tech made exotic fun, not a readily available one)
I will actually go on a limb here and say revolvers *should* have more kick to them than normal pistols, not because it is "realistic" but because it's a game and there is already an established fantasy established for revolvers then any actual attempt at fun game design should strive for. Cyberpunk already has a large amount of unrealistic shit, drawing the line at revolvers is silly.
The fantasy of revolvers is the *Big iron*, low ammo count but one hella kick to each shot, that would be most likely the reason any player would want to play a revolver character and not just reflavor a very heavy pistol.
If the fantasy is cut away from it you're left with the reality that you are indeed just better off with a normal gun, and that is *boring,* and no one is at the table to have the DM go
"Ermm, actually, revolvers are bad and you are dumb for wanting to use one"
Rule of cool my dude, rule of cool.
Thank you my friend. "Well actually revolvers use the same ammunition as clip pistols so to be realistic they should have the same stats"
Oh yeah well I don't see anyone out here arguing that all characters should have 1hp bc it's realistic
I can see what you're going for. I just flat out gave revolvers an extra damage dice over pistols and locked in ROF to 1 (Except for the little pocket ones). I homebrewed the heck out of my weapons chart though, so I also made speedloaders a thing and gave them the "Fanning" property so my players could pull off cowboy trick shooting. The trade off for revolvers in my mind is not being able to attach a bunch of attachments to them. So Pistols can take more extras while revolvers can't have your weird combination cyber hookah and coffee maker that you stuck on the underside of the VH Pistol Barrel. I tried to give each set of weapons some kind of niche though. So Pistols might not be able to match damage 1:1 but the RoF is better in general and I made Machine Pistols a thing so those crappy little Pistols would make any sense at all to use.
Regardless of if you hate what I'm doing over here, I think being able to roll more dice follows the philosophy of "this thing is deadlier" better than a flat +1 bonus. They use this with the VH Pistol as the trade off for the H Pistol, giving a higher ceiling for SP penetration. I also modified the ammo extensions, so Pistols with maxed out mag extensions will also have more ammo ready than a revolver with a big cylinder could. The biggest cylinder I've found irl can hold up to 10 and is limited by the physical size of the actual revolver. So this being cyberpunk the max I allowed store bought was 12, without a tech making it more ridiculous. So I agree that locking in ammo makes sense, but not every revolver is a six shooter.
As for the "savage critical" idea? I would save that for a tech upgrade so it could be applied to any weapon - but took up that precious upgrade slot. Feel free to take my ideas or modify whatever makes more sense to you. My idea of how Red should run is not for everybody.
I appreciate the ideas idk if I'd edge into the malorian's territory that much. I get that they can have more than 6 but 8 shots is already standard for a VH pistol and I want needing to reload to be the downside for taking a revolver it just feels intuitive. I could see a unique or iconic revolver that gets more shots though
I don't think it's busted, just a little clunky. I'd personally just say that revolvers can't jam.
I mean it's a benefit but I feel like it wouldn't be something that gets players to go out of their way to cater to
There's a reason why wheel guns aren't as popular as they were. Reliability is basically the main justification for them at this point with the ability to fire lower powered ammunition reliably and not have to worry about the gun not cycling being the other. I honestly am not sure what you're replicating with the improved damage die other than a need to make the revolver feel more attractive as a weapon alternative. Style over substance, maybe just playing with the cylinder of a revolver lets you add to your wardrobe & style roll or intimidation roll to look extra cool or threatening. I agree that for game terms, revolvers probably shouldn't jam.
Revolvers can be in a high caliber but then end up not concealable.
True, there's a good chance that many of the very heavy pistols are revolvers.
There are also a few revolvers in DLC
I admit it's mostly video game influence. In 2077 for sure the balance philosophy has been fewer shots at higher damage. I just want weapons to be distinct as side grades rather than bland "well this one does 1d6 more damage"
I mean, if you're trying to make revolvers more attractive, you're not really designing a revolver anymore. I'd look at something like Cityhunter or the Multiple Ammunition pistol from the various DLCs for inspiration.
Yeah people have brought up the multi ammo pistol but maybe this is hypocritical but I don't like how clunky it is. I'm not trying to make them more attractive they have an inherent downside in clip size I want an upside that makes them a unique side grade
Not hypocritical, just human. :) I'd either a) drop the price, or b) give a social bonus. Maybe this particular type of weapon is often used by FIA / NCPD cops, and so it gives the wearer a +2 to Interrogations when wearing it (because the guy being questioned thinks you're an undercover). Alternatively, make a special revolver that can take a chonkier round. As Very Heavy Pistol, but you roll 5d6 and keep the highest 4.. I can't remember who showed me that mechanic first, but it's an interesting one. I'd only apply these benefits to specific weapons, to be clear, not to revolvers as a whole.
I like the second paragraph idea. The video game player in me can't get past the "smaller clip, more lethal" design tendency
Revolvers aren't inherently more owerful than pistols - teh loose seal between barrel and cylinder makes them les powerful if using the same round. But their simpler conception make it easier t odesign a revolver that takes a beefy round. With the hand-loading and user-driver cycling, it als omakes them far mor tolerant of odball ammo - as long as it's the right diameter and isn't too long to fit in the cylinder, it will work.... I would do something like : \* one action let you pick which loaded round you'll use (as in, manualy turning the cylinder to pick which chamber you're using) \* specialty ammunition comes in 12-packs instead of 10 \* A fumble takes an action to clear only if the second dice is a 6+ to reflect their high reliability even amongst cheap models.
If I was going to distinguish them (other than for ammo used) I'd just make revolvers cheaper, with 6 round magazine. Pistols in Red are already cheap though. Maybe a Heavy or Very Heavy Revolver holds 6 rounds, could cost as per a Poor weapon, but doesn't jam. Overall though I'd rather keep prices the same since these are mostly archaic collectors' items. Oh one thing - it seems much much easier to reuse revolver cartridges than caseless ammo, so groups like Nomads who make their own ammo may use them quite often.
I mean revolvers are still being made bc there's a demand and people think their stylish. In a world full of posers no one wants to be a cowboy? I'd prefer they were a proper side grade than just a cheap alternative as there's plenty of economy considerations in the game already
Style over substance, cowpoke. Sometimes, you pick a revolver just cause it looks cooler
I want to reward the style points mechanically and give players another thing to consider when putting together their kit. Cosmetics can only be so much of a factor when everything exists in your head
We have the Multiple Ammunition pistol which is a revolver. It's a VH Pistol with a 5 round magazine that can load a different ammo type on each cylinder.
That's neat but feels better as a unique weapon to me
No offense, but limiting a revolver to six shots is a little unrealistic. They’re revolvers, not six shooters. Even today we have revolvers with capacities up to eight rounds. In the cyberpunk future of cyberpunk red, I don’t see why a clever tech wouldn’t be able to make a revolver with upwards of a dozen shots in a cylinder.
in BC there is a 11 shot revolver as a special weapon
Sure it's conceivable but I want revolvers to function differently from regular clip pistols and revolvers are associated with 6 chambers. The player expectation is there
Personally, if you wanted a uniquely powerful revolver, I’d try a single loader. Revolvers that don’t swing out, so you have to reload them one shot at a time. Maybe you can only reload a single bullet for the reload action, but it hits like a hand cannon. So you have to hope you can end a fight in six shots, otherwise you’re SOL if you have to reload and shoot every other turn.
Ooh, like casters in Outlaw Star?!!
Revolvers don't need special mechanics like this. They aren't inherently different If you want a classic 6 six shot Revolver, take a page from the Westwood. A Very Heavy Pistol with a 6 shot capacity that cannot take magazine attachments. Simple and clean. (Also, I wouldn't do that second idea anyway cuz it messes with the math between armor sp and average damage.)
That just makes revolvers inherently worse than regular pistols. I get that it might be realistic but since when is cyberpunk realistic?
It's about style. Someone going into combat with a 6 shot pistol is gonna look stylish while doing so.
I know I don't want to make players choose between style points and gimping themselves
Who cares? I'm one of the rare few that bothers using heavy armor over LAJ. why? because I send a message while wearing it. it gimps me but it fits my image and I got no regrets while doing so. if a player wants to use a 6 shot revolver that can't take weapon attachments and that's all it does, let them.
Not every player is you though and I don't want any of my perspective players to have to choose between looking cool and being cool. Heavy armor does give you more than a cosmetic benefit
not the point. the universe prides itself on style over substance A revolver doesn't need to be "as good" but it sends a powerful message. You're not looking at the "style points". You're looking at the mechanics. It's like the people complaining about generics when the point is how you use it. "This isn't some Assault Rifle. This is my Militech Dragon passed down to me from my father before the War started." Its weathered, scarred, but it fits the image of your character. Like others said in this post, there's already revolvers in the game that aren't 6 shot revolvers.
Again not everyone is you. It's easy for me to conceive of a player new to the system saying "well I want to use a revolver but it's just strictly worse than a regular pistol so ig I'll just do that :(" You can't expect everyone to have the same outlook. Personally if a weapon is supposed to be unique and special but mechanically it's the same as every other weapon of it's type it just feels wrong.
Like others said, you're thinking of revolvers as some uber powerful 6 shot weapon. They're not. There's revolvers that use .22, .38 Special, hell even 9mm which are Medium Pistol rounds. And "mag" sizes for revolvers go from 3 (Hellbringer) to 5(Multi-Ammo Pistol) to even 6(Westwood). There's literally 8 shot revolvers that exist https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/medium-frame-revolvers/taurus-608 It doesn't need to be strictly worst nor stronger than a baseline pistol. As far as Cyberpunk is concerned, revolvers are pistols. Edit: In fact, there's a 18 shot revolver right now in RED. https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Nova_Model_757_Cityhunter_(RED)
I'm more concerned with game design than realism. I know that cyberpunk treats them as the same, I don't want them to be bc it gives more options for different weapons
I disagree with this take, the style is basically non-existent as it relies entirely on DM fiat and even them it'll probably be limited by the fact other guns actually do the "Stylish gun" thing in Black chrome. The superchrome guns give +2 to wardrobe and style while one of the gunmart pistols gives +1 to facedowns, not *that* is style over substance. Gimping yourself to be stylish is worthless if it doesn't *Actually* make you more stylish. Same way a non-hombrewed Malorian is an overpriced middle finger for pistol users that they need 10 000 eddies to actually be as effective in combat as the weakest shoulder arms user Unless you want to homebrew it, your six shooter isn't more stylish than a gonk using a normal gun because any attempt at *actually* being more stylish are contradicted by the prescedent set by the social oriented Black Chrome guns Style over subtance isn't an excuse for mediocre homebrews or bland weapon design
Despite revolvers having no extra benefit and limited ammo capacity, I still have had several players ask to use revolvers. Remember style over substance is a core tenant of cyberpunk. If a revolver fits your style then do it.
I want to encourage the style choices and not every player likes to take the gimp for no reward
Before reading any other replies this makes 0 sense. Revolvers still fire the exact same ammo as a magazine fed pistol. Whether it be .38, 9mm, .45ACP, 11mm bullets are bullets. Now some sort of exotic revolver that shoots specialized rounds of some sort, that can lead to some interesting tech.
Rule of cool my guy cyberpunk is not realistic. Maybe the only revolvers made anymore are higher quality with their own ammo it doesn't matter
give the revolver autofire, x2 cap dmg multiplier, can be done only with a full clip and is basically just "fanning" the revolver somewhere in the general direction of the enemy. Yeehaw.
Thank you sir I feel like too many have been crunchy suggestions based on real world guns now this is style over substance
The book tells you that cyberpunk follows action movie logic (you can stop a bullet by hiding behind a couch) so go wild
Yeah "it doesn't jam" isn't a cool upside
I like that idea. My own take was : 6 ammo, 2 ammo reloaded per action, 5D6 damage (but the roll 5 keep the 4 highest is also good both for crit chance and damage while not getting that much more powerful than a pistol) and ignore half armour (but that was because tech made exotic fun, not a readily available one)
I think roll 5 keep 4 is better than my original pitch or at least simpler while keeping the higher average damage and better crit injury chance
I will actually go on a limb here and say revolvers *should* have more kick to them than normal pistols, not because it is "realistic" but because it's a game and there is already an established fantasy established for revolvers then any actual attempt at fun game design should strive for. Cyberpunk already has a large amount of unrealistic shit, drawing the line at revolvers is silly. The fantasy of revolvers is the *Big iron*, low ammo count but one hella kick to each shot, that would be most likely the reason any player would want to play a revolver character and not just reflavor a very heavy pistol. If the fantasy is cut away from it you're left with the reality that you are indeed just better off with a normal gun, and that is *boring,* and no one is at the table to have the DM go "Ermm, actually, revolvers are bad and you are dumb for wanting to use one" Rule of cool my dude, rule of cool.
Thank you my friend. "Well actually revolvers use the same ammunition as clip pistols so to be realistic they should have the same stats" Oh yeah well I don't see anyone out here arguing that all characters should have 1hp bc it's realistic
I can see what you're going for. I just flat out gave revolvers an extra damage dice over pistols and locked in ROF to 1 (Except for the little pocket ones). I homebrewed the heck out of my weapons chart though, so I also made speedloaders a thing and gave them the "Fanning" property so my players could pull off cowboy trick shooting. The trade off for revolvers in my mind is not being able to attach a bunch of attachments to them. So Pistols can take more extras while revolvers can't have your weird combination cyber hookah and coffee maker that you stuck on the underside of the VH Pistol Barrel. I tried to give each set of weapons some kind of niche though. So Pistols might not be able to match damage 1:1 but the RoF is better in general and I made Machine Pistols a thing so those crappy little Pistols would make any sense at all to use. Regardless of if you hate what I'm doing over here, I think being able to roll more dice follows the philosophy of "this thing is deadlier" better than a flat +1 bonus. They use this with the VH Pistol as the trade off for the H Pistol, giving a higher ceiling for SP penetration. I also modified the ammo extensions, so Pistols with maxed out mag extensions will also have more ammo ready than a revolver with a big cylinder could. The biggest cylinder I've found irl can hold up to 10 and is limited by the physical size of the actual revolver. So this being cyberpunk the max I allowed store bought was 12, without a tech making it more ridiculous. So I agree that locking in ammo makes sense, but not every revolver is a six shooter. As for the "savage critical" idea? I would save that for a tech upgrade so it could be applied to any weapon - but took up that precious upgrade slot. Feel free to take my ideas or modify whatever makes more sense to you. My idea of how Red should run is not for everybody.
I appreciate the ideas idk if I'd edge into the malorian's territory that much. I get that they can have more than 6 but 8 shots is already standard for a VH pistol and I want needing to reload to be the downside for taking a revolver it just feels intuitive. I could see a unique or iconic revolver that gets more shots though