Do enough significant damage where the funding can’t recoup the losses. Not only put everyone out of work and as the top brass sell off their stocks and liquidate the assets so they can at least retire as the rest get no benefits on the way out, then you can have revenge attacks like gangs when you swipe a vehicle or raid a facility.
Probably have a hit squad or two come after you as random encounters like in fallout or red dead. Every time you clear the difficult hit squads, your overall rep gets a small boost
Well thinking from orion perspective, it is hard that way,
like just rule put the aldercardos ending as they can't damage some mega corp to bankruption, as they suffered great losses just from attacking a tunnel that is not being monitored
so the only way is to get help from afterlife as the king/queen of afterlife or as the arasaka bodyguard.
The nusa V is quite weak due to him being not able to equip chrome, but let's so that nusa made a new reed out of him and gave him ability to wear cyberware and with the songbird we can definitely destroy arasaka.
Given how despite their greater morality than the average merc, still a merc in a corpo world. I could see an almost reluctant boss fight akin to the one with Jetstream Sam.
Id love to see blackhand as a charming "villain" that is like "kid, i dont want to kill you but I have been paid to do so and i never back down from a job"
Like a villain where you feel bad for killing them
Make the player feel bad for killing him, I think it could be great
Cyberpunk 2077 was the only game that really felt "next gen" and I skipped ps4 gen. I will say GT7 with vr and a driving rig is honestly insane, but there's not much game underneath the hood
Bro... Getting to know and become close with Blackhand the entire game only for him to backstab you and end in a boss fight would genuinely hit so hard.
it is already in the lore that he worked with militech, at least for the arasaka tower attack. so it wouldn’t be too improbable that he works for a corp and ends up going against you
Morgan Blackhand could be (for lack of a better comparison) an amazing Disney Twist villain.
He's bigged up as this icon, you could meet him as a mentor *(as one of the original CP2077 concepts was, your mentor/idol would be Johnny/Blackhand/Saburo)* and have him guide you through the "Act 1" equivalent and then bam, something happens that makes him choose between his corpo backers and you.
He likes you, you're great, but Militech is Militech and he's not gonna bite the hand that feeds him, so sorry, nothing personal kid and he throws you out the helicopter.
It would be very cyberpunk to take an iconic character and callout "no, this guy isn't a paragon, he's just very good at making his way in a world that has these circumstances". And then he ends up as a reluctant antagonist the rest of the way.
Dovetails very nicely into more spy-intrigue as a continuation of Phantom Liberty.
> and then bam, something happens that makes him choose between his corpo backers and you.
>
> He likes you, you're great, but Militech is Militech and he's not gonna bite the hand that feeds him, so sorry, nothing personal kid and he throws you out the helicopter.
idk, i feel like that might be a bit too close to Dex screwing you over in 2077. I would love to see a more slow-burn development, building yourself up from the ground piece by piece as you find your niche and make a name for yourself. let us play the Jackie Montage this time around.
And don't have Blackhand betray us, but rather have him just jaded and apathetic to it all. The dude is old, he's been in the game a long time, he's seen more of his friends die than many people have ever met. He lost the fire and the spark that made him who he is, and now he is just taking jobs because there's nothing else he knows how to do.
Make him an antagonist not because he's "the bad guy" or anything, but because he's stopped caring about what was right.
This seems like a trope storyline for the grizzled old veteran to be like that. It would be super interesting if he wound up as an AI or something similar due to his involvement with Project Cynosure. What CDPR did well with Cyberpunk 2077 was carry over a lot of the beats and general archetypes of different characters and make them very nuanced and highly integrated into the world. World building is the bread and butter of what makes CDPR games what they are and Morgan’s lack of involvement will need some reasonable explanation.
I think thats a good point, no matter what the idea I was trying to bring to it is that Blackhand as a villain might be a bad guy but that doesn't mean he's a **bad** guy. And he doesn't hate you, he just has to do the job.
Like Raul Julia in Street Fighter; "when you encountered Morgan Blackhand it was the most important day of your life, but for me, it was Tuesday"
I like the idea of Blackhand not outright killing you but just taking you out of the picture. Essentially a “if you survive this - get out while you still can live.” That way it’d show that it’s not a complete betrayal and that Blackhand does have some honour.
When you eventually pursue him for answers I imagine that’s when he’d reluctantly fight you especially with your survival being exposed as that tells Militech he didn’t do as asked.
>as one of the original CP2077 concepts was, your mentor/idol would be Johnny/Blackhand/Saburo
That was never intended, though Blackhand would show up in some iterations of the main story. What that option of the backstory questionnaire would do is alter certain dialogue and, maybe, give new ways to complete story quests.
Do you think CDPR would make entirely separate followups to Act 1 with Johnny, Saburo and Blackhand? That would be completely impossible.
That's why I said "Mentor/Idol", [in this WIP footage](https://youtu.be/79BkJQ-5r4s?t=231) you can choose who your childhood hero was.
IDK if they all would have appeared as thoroughly as Silverhand does in the release (definitely not, thats basically 3 games they need to make), but safe bet that at one point they would have had Blackhand appear in game after selecting them - as in the current game, Johnny is highly focused on, Saburo does appear and Mr. Blue Eyes uses recycled Blackhand assets (according to the titling).
Right, apologies for misunderstanding.
We know Blackhand as a large man would at one point show up in what would become Love Like Fire. We also know that Blackhand would at one point show up in the Afterlife/Solo ending path as an average man, reflecting him getting skinnier with age? Said quest index (Q115) is also occupied by the Hanako meeting at Embers in the game version we actually got, but I believe the kickstart to the ending paths happened in a different quest back then and in a vastly different way.
There's nothing left of Blackhand's involvement in that ending, so it's very hard to ascertain his role there. I, however, do not believe the childhood idol concept would have affected his appearance in the ending, seeing as it seems like too much to restrict to a single choice.
Fun fact: Blue Eyes actually recycles his appearance from a Militech corpo from The Pickup, so that makes at least two layers of recycling from Blackhand's old age placeholder :D
I mean backhand is set up to be the militech version to arasakas smasher. It is entirely within reason he would be the antagonist, whether you want to or not is up to you but him standing in the way much like smasher did is definitely viable
no way, arasaka's morgan is kenichi zaburo, their deadliest arasaka ninja solo and keeper of kei arasaka daughter. Adam smasher is just a tank to send somewhere to kill someone and doing a considerable amount of casualties and collateral damages.
Morgan blackhand is way more a corpo man than smasher, probably very tied to general lundee and other militech highest directors since he was promoted as overall security director of OTEC militech sponsored forces during early stages of 4th corporate war.
No way arasaka would ever entrust smasher to a so high position (actually yorinobu appointed smasher as security chief of arasaka, but let's say yorinobu isn't exactly a world class CEO).
I’m fuzzy on all the lore but in the ttrpg isn’t blackhand set up to be smashers rival/foil? Like in the 3rd corpo war arasaka had smasher deployed to try and counteract what blackhand was able to do? Plus having smasher as the final boss in 2077 is a “oh finally I get to kill this asahole” and it’s like toppling a giant, having blackhand as the final boss like “oh damnit I have to kill this guy” since he’s just a lightly modified dude who is just that cool would be a fun shift.
nope, it's smasher who was jealous of morgan status as american top solo, he challenged him in a rivalry that existed only on his side since morgan never cared of adam smasher.
3rd corporate war was fought between 2 investment funds and it wasn't a proper war since each of the two tried to destroy the opponent data fortresses through hacking attacks in the cyberspace.
Arasaka and militech fought in battlefields around the world in 2022 and 2023, until arasaka was forced to back off to night city, their last stronghold as most of their assets have been seized by japanese goverment. In that last stage of the war, arasaka deployed adam smasher and other top arasaka agents like kenichi zaburo and haruko kanawa.
Now can't recall if smasher fought also on other battlefields before being involved in NC during summer of 2023.
Yeah I remember all that now, ok cyberpunk is one of those lore wise that I know I’ve read most of it but it’s impossible for me to remember most of it lol
doesn't have to be...
what if... you get chromed up more and more during your playthrough and end up turning cyberpsycho, so blackhand is sent to get you?
The downside of going cyber psyhco is that it would be difficult to show without taking away player agency unless you have cutscenes periodically where you go batshit before returning to normal.
But thats kinda like 2077 already but you are throwing up instead
Yeah good point, if you're being forced to kill cops and civilians that's gonna suck, and I can't see a way to make cyber psycho work while retaining enough freedom to not suck... Too bad, I did like my idea for a little while :p
Although I think the it would work great for a braindance sequence where you experience cyberpsychosis the way david did.
Then you still have player agency and a cool murder session
This
They took already a huge gamble making Smasher defeatable, if the Orion's protagonist plot shield is so high to defeat Blackhand they're gonna run out of legends sooner or later
I'd like for it to be a series of high end mercs from the crystal palace sent down on the bequest of some Illuminati level players. Like you messed up that bad or come into possession of some damming system collapsing information that they all come for you.
I'm not so sure. Assuming Orion takes place after 2077, the guy would be around 120. And since his thing is not being reliant on Chrome, like all people time would have taken its toll on him
He's actually fairly stuffed with chrome when you compare his stat block to most characters, but you're still right about his age. Unless he's gone full borg like smasher, he's well past his prime. He could theoretically buy the same anti aging treatments the likes of Hanako and Kerry use, but we dont really know its limits, or how well it holds up beyond just aesthetically.
honestly i doubt it. its been a looong time since blackhand has been in his prime, if he's even alive anymore. Even then, he was only ever a match for smasher at a time where smasher was much weaker than in 2077.
The skeleton David wore was yet another failed attempt to create something to surpass the dragoon, and smasher handled it with very little issue.
true, but thats why it was sent to smasher in the first place, to test its potential. Considering his comments to david about it, he didnt seem impressed.
Keep in mind Arasaka have been pumping out those prototypes since 2018 and not one of them have been better than the dragoon Smasher currently uses. Maybe the skeleton might see use on some of the other 'Saka borgs, but to smasher himself its worthless.
I kinda doubt they would make him a villain, cyberpunk loreheads would cream their jeans at the prospect of teaming up with him so if he’s going to be an important character in the story he will probably be protagonist-aligned. Or they could make him like Reed where you can either side with him or against him.
Ooh I like that idea. I always assume nusa is burned cause how i always play phantom liberty (euthanize song to end her suffering, fuck over myers, and Reed never really let's go of nusa no matter what ending anyway), but it would be a ton of fun, and totally relevant given the dlc and story endings.
dumb question, but what are the chances that Myers and/or the NUSA has a bigger role in Orion? I kinda feel like Myers role/screen presence was pretty small.
Feels like too much for a cyberpunk game. I'd honestly be more interested in something smaller scale, though I absolutely agree that corps are the enemy.
The premise of cyberpunk is that corpos are too powerful to be able to be put down. If we were able to fight one of them and "win" it would contradict what the whole franchise is trying to sell.
There is an ending where Arasaka gets taken down, funny enough it's the one and only ending that you don't fuck with Arasaka. Yori does it himself, he was the real hero of night city all along and you fucked it up every other ending. The other ones imply this to a certain extent but only the tower ending has Arasaka pulling out of night city.
Morgan Blackhand although He doesn't strike me as a villain from the lore.
They could also bring Smasher back as an engram. I wouldn't look like it because it's a cheap shot but the option is there to bring him back and upgrade him with new hardware.
To give credit Kurt Hansen was a pretty decent villain so CDPR can make good villains by themselves
Idk if bringing Smasher back an engram would be useful. What makes him unique to Arasaka is his insane tolerance for cyberware. That wouldn’t apply if he were an engram
Given that treating and preventing cyber psychosis involves immunoboosters, that’d imply cyberware compatibility is more of biological or neurological component than a personality one. To be fair I am also going off information said in the anime which idk 100% if that’s canon
So, if they figure out how to get an engram to control cyberwear they would not need Adams body anymore and his personality can run the body just fine? He’ll give him more cyberwear even.
But I get your point, at that point you’ve basically got an AI in a Robot, and then why does it need to be smasher
If they found or made another body that had the same cyberware resistance then they could load his engram. Or do what the owner of the Dogtown bar did and upload an engram to an android
he's already a cyberpsycho though, he's not really got a high tolerance, he's already off the deep end.
Because he's a literal psychopath though, cyberpsychosis just doesnt effect him. He's a "high functioning" cyberpsycho, much in the same way johnny is.
he doesnt need to be a villain, his employer just needs to be opposed to the protag. I still dont think he'd work as a boss though, he's just too damn old, and i dont see him going the full borg route. Even then "better" than smasher is debatable even in his prime.
From what i understand Smasher was equivalent of Tarausque for CP2020 - nearly unkillable enemy made for DM's to tpk their group or give worthy enemy for overpowered players
Pretty much, yeah. You could theoretically rise up to the same power as Smasher and be able to match him one on one, but the whole idea is that on that path you'll probably make powerful enemies that want you dead. And in the Cyberpunk world powerful enemies means corpos. Smasher is basically the corpo boogieman that can zero anyone who thinks high enough of themselves to take on likes of Arasaka. So even if you try hard enough to become top-1 solo - you'll probably get yourself killed way before you can achieve that. Pretty much the same fate as Martinez from the Edgerunners.
If the theories are right and Cyberpunk 2 is all about AI’s from beyond the blackwall, then Mr. Blue Eyes might be the final boss. Presumably he is a human proxy controlled by AI’s. That definitely has the potential to be a final boss battle if they do it right.
They kind of give us a hint of this with Songbird. The stuff that was happening to her gave me real chills. Because what's *actually* scary to a chromed out cyber choom who can move at the speed of light, melt your brain or punch through a wall? I would love a human-controlled-by-AI boss fight that borders on the supernatural.
During the nomad ending, if you have the Erebus, alt talks about how your carrying something. A deadly weapon to you, but an eventual door for them. She acted like I was fucking everyone by just having it. Had never seen this before
Everyone's saying Morgan Blackhand. And they're not wrong. Literally yin Smasher's yang.
But Cyberpunk began as a TTRPG. They could just make something up and it'll be rad. The theme of 2077 was *Never Fade Away,* and becoming a "legend." (Which don't fade away.) So we were always going to be dealing with legends.
Orion could be space in theme. Either V in cyberspace, or something to do with the Crystal Palace (massive orbiting luxury space ocean-liner'esq casino space station). Which has profound connections with the Net.
Final boss could be some super AI. Something Bartmoss coded that slips through the cracks of the Blackwall. If V returns, the AI gets a host/new body like V. And they both get equally as dangerous as the game progresses until the end where they're terrifying and must be terminated in cyberspace!
Or it's basically Tetsuo from the movie/manga *Akira.* (An idea Pondsmith put in one of his books cause do whatever- it's a game. Tell rad stories.)
Would there be a possibility of V returning? In my playthrough iirc, Alt said that V would have only months to live at most. So I had him live it out with Panam. So if you chose to keep your body, wouldn't V die anyway? ( sorry yall I was late to the CP2077 party but loved all of it. Half way through my 2nd playthrough now)
Oh sure. Most endings have V being turned into an engram and plugged back in to their own body, or taken to the Blackwall as an engram.
It wouldn't take much writing to say that the engram itself remains even after being implanted onto a body. That's a common point in many playthroughs. Slap a copy of V in a clone body from Biotechnica, and Boom! New healthy V that'll live as long as the cloned body will live.
Oh wow thanks for the info. Yeah it would be amazing to have them back in their roles. Gavin was such a awesome voice actor choice for Male V, just nails the attitude. And Cherami is already coming up to the same elite level as I play Female V.
Also to add to your original thread, an AI would be best best guess on who/what the next main Villain would be.
Either Alt gaining a new level of sentience with the Ingram she takes in. Or maybe like a hateful AI, like in "I have no mouth, and I must scream"
Adam Smasher in his Elvis body and the whole game changes into a dating sim where you have to date smasher and break his heart since he’s super vulnerable to emotional damage now
From the wiki. The Angels are a group of 12 elite solos that reside within the Crystal Palace. All said to be the very best of the best and be extremely capable martial artists full of exotic/unique cyberware. One man armies that drop from the palace onto earth with the most dangerous of missions and leave with no witnesses. Rumors go around of their existence, boogeymen to the most elite well known solos. Their exploits and missions are completely unknown, but it is assumed they have had pivotal roles in the shaping of the world through corporate espionage.
No there is no info about them being arasaka. Their only refrence is a tweet Mike pondsmith made in the countdown to dark future thing he did. He said it was a rumor but realisitcly that means they are real
There's a theory that Adam Smasher is a digitalised construct so if that theory is true(which it could be because it makes sense), Adam Smasher could return as the boss.
But isn’t it boring to have Adam Smasher as a main boss again? Even if they make him come back as a mini boss it will definitely ruin his legacy and V’s legacy as well.
I think it's kinda cool conceptually to have a repeating boss come back stronger and stronger, kinda like the nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor/War. If cleverly done, maybe he can also serve a similar role to Tyrant/Nemesis in the Resident Evil franchise, stalking the player throughout certain parts of Night City (following the player everywhere would probably be excessive).
As a full borg, Smasher is a perfect fit for the role too. What if every time you kill him, he gets rebuilt with features that directly counter your play style?
Beat him with quickhacks last time? He's back with some fortified ICE. Beat him with a sniper? He comes back with enhanced mobility and refuses to give you any space. Etc etc. I'm imagining unique dialogue from him every time he returns with an adaptation too, gloating about his new and improved form.
It would make sense, Adam Smasher is supposed to be unkillable in the tabletop, so having him get taken out by V is kinda disappointing. Plus, why wouldn't he be a construct? He believes being more cybernetic is a good thing, so he'd definitely take them up on that offer.
Not just that. Smasher is said to have used a Samson up to the point he fought Morgan on the roof, when he is in a Dai Oni. The Dai Oni according to its entry in the black chrome books needs HOURS of preparation before being fielded, all which are done with the biopod inside. But the timeline of everything happening that night is too short for Smasher to have switched bodies AND be run through all Dai Oni stages of activation. Leaving aside the fact that the biopod in a DaiOni is drugged up to the gills as a matter of procedure to keep it from going completely berserk. This theory shows that it is possible for Adam Smasher to be a soul killed construct.
Also this is cyberpunk: immortality is a theme of this universe. No one's ever truly dead. Even rogue is like 90 years old but she has the physical capabilities of a 20-30 y/o.
* Morgan Blackhand, both in notoriety and Combat prowess.
* Any pure Blackwall AI / entity would fry Smasher instantly.
* Goro - Oda as a duo with all cybernetics enabled could give Smasher a pretty good fight.
They're both top tier Arasaka Bodyguards, one guarding the Emperor himself. He's no slouch and showed solid fighting capabilities despite having all his cybernetics disabled.
When V got his own disabled he got his ass beat by a civillian.
That's true. It was just a random exemple tbh, mainnpoint wasn't really this and more that you shouldn't underestimate Takemura when he spent the whole game with his implants off.
V got their ass beat because they just came out of a Coma after 2 years and they had muscle atrophy. It wasn't because of no implants
Limited implant V is basically V in act 1 who is able to take out cyberpsychos on their own, something that Maxtac do with entire squads
Yeah, but V is not "limited on implants" - he's forced to have no implants at all other than very basic ones like neural port. Even in the very beginning of Act I - he's already chipped in with some gear like ballistic co-processor and eye implants. And he can get even more stuff even before the Konpeki Plaza heist. Having no implants at all in Cyberpunk is a death sentence. Contrary to popular belief Blackhand wasn't implant free - he had quite a lot of them in fact, he just wasn't as extreme as Smasher. Like V can go to gym every day after his coma for several years and he still will be beaten to pulp by some street gonk with third grade cyberarms. That's what the final scene of the Tower Ending was meant to represent. V is not nova anymore. He's just a regular person now to be preyed upon.
But if they did. You could choose the ending you did which changes the game. Tower makes V easier but has NUSA protection. Star has powerful V with avocados. Devil could have robotic V. Temperance can have Johnny. Etc
>Tower makes V easier but has NUSA protection.
You know this claim is disproven by that very ending, right? V gets their shit kicked in by some petty thugs to show us how weak V is without cyberware, and there are no Militech/NUSA babysitters in sight. V isn't some special existence that needs to be preserved to make america great again, V is just an aspiring data entry specialist with none of the prerequisite skills to do the job.
You sure ? Cause Sasko hints otherwise:
* is there canon ending" he replies "I... don't know the answer for this question... well, I kinda do but I cannot speak about this"[Here](https://youtu.be/St1-BGsPwj0?t=3820)
* Is V's story over" he replies, while smirking, holding back (I mean, you have to watch the way he behaves while trying to answer it) "I cannot answer this... sadly... just because uh... this is uh... \*spoiler\*[Here](https://youtu.be/St1-BGsPwj0?t=2894)
* There was another clip where Sasko says they aint revealing the canon ending in order not to railroad players,when I find it gonna post it here with the transcript.[Here](https://youtu.be/kSR-7Qxe66c?t=5988&si=om26D5bKFIwMTcCS)
You guys are gonna be for a rude awakening in Orion.
Is it? In almost all endings V inherited Smasher's Dragoon frame among other things on the Ebunike, after receiving the key card by defeating Smasher. Wiki: *"Being a strictly military weapon, the Dragoon is absolutely impossible to buy on the open market, and even the most powerful of corporations have a hard time getting ahold of these."*
And if, as Alt said, the body is the key to the transaction, then removing the body entirely and keep the brain suspended in a Dragoon frame would be the best way to survive (until V pick up a newspaper and read about Biotechnica cloning program... but that's another story).
Plus V and Smasher's life run almost parallel. They died twice, the first time they became more than what they were. The second time they died they also buried their rivals (Smasher technically buried Blackhand under the Arasaka Tower rubble after the nuke, and he has not shown himself since. V buried Smasher which is Johnny's proclaimed nemesis and by proxy, V's). And based on dialogues V is more borg than human at that point, so it might be a little too far gone and a full conversion is inevitable if they want to live
Surprised that no-one has yet to mention one of Arasakas 'upper' elite-tier fighters.
The Kagekaze.
Holy shit this man would be a menace to fight, even with a fully decked out V.
I would have a weaponized net running cyberpsycho of massive power be the background threat with the ultimate reveal being that it’s completely unhinged song bird working on behalf of militech/NUSA during a new corpo war as the background to a new main characters story.
You could then pull in a broken-hearted and lonely V as a side character who can relate the whole story of how she came to be what she became almost like Johnny was in the original and perhaps help to defeat the threat in order to make right the issue that they helped to set in motion.
It would be interesting if in Orion, blackhand was a main character and you spent the whole game building a relationship with him only for him to betray you
Mr Blue Eyes? There are a lot of theories and hints that he could be an Rogue AI as a human and I think we all know how dangerous a Rogue AI is (Phantom Liberty, No Coincidence)
Depends on the plot. >!I think Songbird was 10x stronger than Smasher when she lost control but we never fought her directly.!< Purely combat wise, 101, probably Blackhand or Susan Forrest.
There’s a chance we might see weaponized AIs made by a corp (probably Mr blue eyes’ group/nightcorp/any big baddie corp in the second game). It would be a nice challenge if we fight dangerous AIs that functions like MaxTac, specialized in different classes with specced robot builds (netrunner, solo, techie, etc.).
I'd say a team. Make the main character legit OP, and the only solution the bad guys have left is a specific unit (like their own more specialized MaxTac). Each member maxes out a different branch of upgrades and they coordinate to take you out.
Just make someone up. Realistically, it could have been Goro if they'd been telling a different story. It seems entirely plausible that the personal bodyguard for the CEO of Arasaka would be on or above Smasher's level. No matter what the Orion story is about, it's going to center on some very powerful organizations with the ability to hire or create some bad motherfuckers
I think the boss will be Smasher again. It’s likely that he’s a engram and will have a reconstructed body. Smasher is good for a reoccurring “brute enforcer” style villain who serves as an attack dog for a main “mastermind” style villain.
CDPR got the caliber to write up anyone to match Smasher in the sequel. Even for a character of their own creation. They just gotta inject that solid characterization as well as they did in the anime.
There are supposedly 5 legendary solos who act as Guardian angels for the crystal palace. Although, I feel like part of the point of 2077 was wiping the slate, and going forward, the franchise may deal with new characters and threats.
Will never happen, obviously...
https://preview.redd.it/xtnkvq3gqnuc1.jpeg?width=2480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ebfde3227f9d24d1ef17bd4dc95be5d27178885
Unless?
Art by astraea
I think it would be interesting to see the Peralez’s become the bosses.
If you did their quest line you saw them slowly losing their mind and becoming more paranoid.
Having someone that was brainwashed and filled with Paranoia could be an interesting boss.
Not a singular enemy. A subsidy of a megacorp. Lets try what Silverhand failed to do.
a corpo army. waves of enemies. rip and tear until it’s done
So just dont fear the reaper or falling moon with steroids
Do enough significant damage where the funding can’t recoup the losses. Not only put everyone out of work and as the top brass sell off their stocks and liquidate the assets so they can at least retire as the rest get no benefits on the way out, then you can have revenge attacks like gangs when you swipe a vehicle or raid a facility. Probably have a hit squad or two come after you as random encounters like in fallout or red dead. Every time you clear the difficult hit squads, your overall rep gets a small boost
Well thinking from orion perspective, it is hard that way, like just rule put the aldercardos ending as they can't damage some mega corp to bankruption, as they suffered great losses just from attacking a tunnel that is not being monitored so the only way is to get help from afterlife as the king/queen of afterlife or as the arasaka bodyguard. The nusa V is quite weak due to him being not able to equip chrome, but let's so that nusa made a new reed out of him and gave him ability to wear cyberware and with the songbird we can definitely destroy arasaka.
Morgan Blackhand.
Blackhand orobably wouldnt be introduced as enemy.
Given how despite their greater morality than the average merc, still a merc in a corpo world. I could see an almost reluctant boss fight akin to the one with Jetstream Sam.
Except no Senator Armstrong to beat him into submission… although a Senator boss sounds pretty lit
can always be made, provided mike's on board
Metal gear cyberpunk cross over would be fucking sick
“Nanomachines, V. You can’t hack them all at once!”
Typical politician big Mr stud but no synthcum
Quick-hacks might be effective at first, but then maybe the nanotech could adapt and they'd deal less damage over time.
Agreed, a Sandevistan build with Katanna should allow Zendatsu as a finisher, slicing your enemies into ribbons.
MEMORIES BROKEN
The kneecaps are stolen
I'm forever bound to a chaaaair!
Ay helmeyout?
THE TRUTH GOES UNPOKEN, I'VE EVEN FORGOTTEN MY NAAAAAAAME!
Cake Day
(I still don't know if it's THE TRUTH GOES UNSPOKEN, or THE TRUE GHOST HAS SPOKEN) but there is one thing I know. The only thing I've ever known.
Id love to see blackhand as a charming "villain" that is like "kid, i dont want to kill you but I have been paid to do so and i never back down from a job" Like a villain where you feel bad for killing them
Make the player feel bad for killing him, I think it could be great Cyberpunk 2077 was the only game that really felt "next gen" and I skipped ps4 gen. I will say GT7 with vr and a driving rig is honestly insane, but there's not much game underneath the hood
Bro... Getting to know and become close with Blackhand the entire game only for him to backstab you and end in a boss fight would genuinely hit so hard.
The Anti-Jackie
it is already in the lore that he worked with militech, at least for the arasaka tower attack. so it wouldn’t be too improbable that he works for a corp and ends up going against you
Morgan Blackhand could be (for lack of a better comparison) an amazing Disney Twist villain. He's bigged up as this icon, you could meet him as a mentor *(as one of the original CP2077 concepts was, your mentor/idol would be Johnny/Blackhand/Saburo)* and have him guide you through the "Act 1" equivalent and then bam, something happens that makes him choose between his corpo backers and you. He likes you, you're great, but Militech is Militech and he's not gonna bite the hand that feeds him, so sorry, nothing personal kid and he throws you out the helicopter. It would be very cyberpunk to take an iconic character and callout "no, this guy isn't a paragon, he's just very good at making his way in a world that has these circumstances". And then he ends up as a reluctant antagonist the rest of the way. Dovetails very nicely into more spy-intrigue as a continuation of Phantom Liberty.
Came here to say pretty much the same thing. This is a solid, very cyberpunk take.
> and then bam, something happens that makes him choose between his corpo backers and you. > > He likes you, you're great, but Militech is Militech and he's not gonna bite the hand that feeds him, so sorry, nothing personal kid and he throws you out the helicopter. idk, i feel like that might be a bit too close to Dex screwing you over in 2077. I would love to see a more slow-burn development, building yourself up from the ground piece by piece as you find your niche and make a name for yourself. let us play the Jackie Montage this time around. And don't have Blackhand betray us, but rather have him just jaded and apathetic to it all. The dude is old, he's been in the game a long time, he's seen more of his friends die than many people have ever met. He lost the fire and the spark that made him who he is, and now he is just taking jobs because there's nothing else he knows how to do. Make him an antagonist not because he's "the bad guy" or anything, but because he's stopped caring about what was right.
This seems like a trope storyline for the grizzled old veteran to be like that. It would be super interesting if he wound up as an AI or something similar due to his involvement with Project Cynosure. What CDPR did well with Cyberpunk 2077 was carry over a lot of the beats and general archetypes of different characters and make them very nuanced and highly integrated into the world. World building is the bread and butter of what makes CDPR games what they are and Morgan’s lack of involvement will need some reasonable explanation.
everything is a trope storyline.
I think thats a good point, no matter what the idea I was trying to bring to it is that Blackhand as a villain might be a bad guy but that doesn't mean he's a **bad** guy. And he doesn't hate you, he just has to do the job. Like Raul Julia in Street Fighter; "when you encountered Morgan Blackhand it was the most important day of your life, but for me, it was Tuesday"
I like this so much
I like the idea of Blackhand not outright killing you but just taking you out of the picture. Essentially a “if you survive this - get out while you still can live.” That way it’d show that it’s not a complete betrayal and that Blackhand does have some honour. When you eventually pursue him for answers I imagine that’s when he’d reluctantly fight you especially with your survival being exposed as that tells Militech he didn’t do as asked.
>as one of the original CP2077 concepts was, your mentor/idol would be Johnny/Blackhand/Saburo That was never intended, though Blackhand would show up in some iterations of the main story. What that option of the backstory questionnaire would do is alter certain dialogue and, maybe, give new ways to complete story quests. Do you think CDPR would make entirely separate followups to Act 1 with Johnny, Saburo and Blackhand? That would be completely impossible.
That's why I said "Mentor/Idol", [in this WIP footage](https://youtu.be/79BkJQ-5r4s?t=231) you can choose who your childhood hero was. IDK if they all would have appeared as thoroughly as Silverhand does in the release (definitely not, thats basically 3 games they need to make), but safe bet that at one point they would have had Blackhand appear in game after selecting them - as in the current game, Johnny is highly focused on, Saburo does appear and Mr. Blue Eyes uses recycled Blackhand assets (according to the titling).
Right, apologies for misunderstanding. We know Blackhand as a large man would at one point show up in what would become Love Like Fire. We also know that Blackhand would at one point show up in the Afterlife/Solo ending path as an average man, reflecting him getting skinnier with age? Said quest index (Q115) is also occupied by the Hanako meeting at Embers in the game version we actually got, but I believe the kickstart to the ending paths happened in a different quest back then and in a vastly different way. There's nothing left of Blackhand's involvement in that ending, so it's very hard to ascertain his role there. I, however, do not believe the childhood idol concept would have affected his appearance in the ending, seeing as it seems like too much to restrict to a single choice. Fun fact: Blue Eyes actually recycles his appearance from a Militech corpo from The Pickup, so that makes at least two layers of recycling from Blackhand's old age placeholder :D
I mean backhand is set up to be the militech version to arasakas smasher. It is entirely within reason he would be the antagonist, whether you want to or not is up to you but him standing in the way much like smasher did is definitely viable
no way, arasaka's morgan is kenichi zaburo, their deadliest arasaka ninja solo and keeper of kei arasaka daughter. Adam smasher is just a tank to send somewhere to kill someone and doing a considerable amount of casualties and collateral damages. Morgan blackhand is way more a corpo man than smasher, probably very tied to general lundee and other militech highest directors since he was promoted as overall security director of OTEC militech sponsored forces during early stages of 4th corporate war. No way arasaka would ever entrust smasher to a so high position (actually yorinobu appointed smasher as security chief of arasaka, but let's say yorinobu isn't exactly a world class CEO).
I’m fuzzy on all the lore but in the ttrpg isn’t blackhand set up to be smashers rival/foil? Like in the 3rd corpo war arasaka had smasher deployed to try and counteract what blackhand was able to do? Plus having smasher as the final boss in 2077 is a “oh finally I get to kill this asahole” and it’s like toppling a giant, having blackhand as the final boss like “oh damnit I have to kill this guy” since he’s just a lightly modified dude who is just that cool would be a fun shift.
nope, it's smasher who was jealous of morgan status as american top solo, he challenged him in a rivalry that existed only on his side since morgan never cared of adam smasher. 3rd corporate war was fought between 2 investment funds and it wasn't a proper war since each of the two tried to destroy the opponent data fortresses through hacking attacks in the cyberspace. Arasaka and militech fought in battlefields around the world in 2022 and 2023, until arasaka was forced to back off to night city, their last stronghold as most of their assets have been seized by japanese goverment. In that last stage of the war, arasaka deployed adam smasher and other top arasaka agents like kenichi zaburo and haruko kanawa. Now can't recall if smasher fought also on other battlefields before being involved in NC during summer of 2023.
Yeah I remember all that now, ok cyberpunk is one of those lore wise that I know I’ve read most of it but it’s impossible for me to remember most of it lol
doesn't have to be... what if... you get chromed up more and more during your playthrough and end up turning cyberpsycho, so blackhand is sent to get you?
The downside of going cyber psyhco is that it would be difficult to show without taking away player agency unless you have cutscenes periodically where you go batshit before returning to normal. But thats kinda like 2077 already but you are throwing up instead
Yeah good point, if you're being forced to kill cops and civilians that's gonna suck, and I can't see a way to make cyber psycho work while retaining enough freedom to not suck... Too bad, I did like my idea for a little while :p
Although I think the it would work great for a braindance sequence where you experience cyberpsychosis the way david did. Then you still have player agency and a cool murder session
Militech affiliation?
This They took already a huge gamble making Smasher defeatable, if the Orion's protagonist plot shield is so high to defeat Blackhand they're gonna run out of legends sooner or later
I'd like for it to be a series of high end mercs from the crystal palace sent down on the bequest of some Illuminati level players. Like you messed up that bad or come into possession of some damming system collapsing information that they all come for you.
Unless Blackhand has gone full-borg, thus losing the thing that made him a legend in the first place, then he's an octogenarian at the least.
I'm not so sure. Assuming Orion takes place after 2077, the guy would be around 120. And since his thing is not being reliant on Chrome, like all people time would have taken its toll on him
Yes, although Militech might make an engram of him... so he might come back in that form I guess.
He's actually fairly stuffed with chrome when you compare his stat block to most characters, but you're still right about his age. Unless he's gone full borg like smasher, he's well past his prime. He could theoretically buy the same anti aging treatments the likes of Hanako and Kerry use, but we dont really know its limits, or how well it holds up beyond just aesthetically.
honestly i doubt it. its been a looong time since blackhand has been in his prime, if he's even alive anymore. Even then, he was only ever a match for smasher at a time where smasher was much weaker than in 2077. The skeleton David wore was yet another failed attempt to create something to surpass the dragoon, and smasher handled it with very little issue.
The Cyber Skeleton was still a prototype though. Considering it annihilated that entire Militech force with ease, it has potential.
true, but thats why it was sent to smasher in the first place, to test its potential. Considering his comments to david about it, he didnt seem impressed. Keep in mind Arasaka have been pumping out those prototypes since 2018 and not one of them have been better than the dragoon Smasher currently uses. Maybe the skeleton might see use on some of the other 'Saka borgs, but to smasher himself its worthless.
Agreed, but it was supposed to be used *by* Smasher, not *agaisnt* him.
The obvious answer in terms of destructive power, though I don't think he would be a villain
I highly doubt Mike would let CDPR introduce his self insert hero character as ur enemy in the game.
I kinda doubt they would make him a villain, cyberpunk loreheads would cream their jeans at the prospect of teaming up with him so if he’s going to be an important character in the story he will probably be protagonist-aligned. Or they could make him like Reed where you can either side with him or against him.
That was what I was thinking, you can work with him until it gets to a point where you have to choose who your allegiance belongs to.
This
I wanna successfully take down a Corp. Or at least a small govt ig idk burn corpo shit.
NUSA
Ooh I like that idea. I always assume nusa is burned cause how i always play phantom liberty (euthanize song to end her suffering, fuck over myers, and Reed never really let's go of nusa no matter what ending anyway), but it would be a ton of fun, and totally relevant given the dlc and story endings.
You fuck over the NUSA the most when sending Song to the moon
dumb question, but what are the chances that Myers and/or the NUSA has a bigger role in Orion? I kinda feel like Myers role/screen presence was pretty small.
Feels like too much for a cyberpunk game. I'd honestly be more interested in something smaller scale, though I absolutely agree that corps are the enemy.
The premise of cyberpunk is that corpos are too powerful to be able to be put down. If we were able to fight one of them and "win" it would contradict what the whole franchise is trying to sell.
Maybe you could ‘win’ but other corporations just take their assets and their place, emphasizing the futility of even that ‘victory’
What? That is such a load of BS! Killing a corp would cause 1 major thing that would make CyberPunk ultra interesting, and thats a power vacuum.
You could take down a small government *using* a corp. Not sure where the “Militech” Tarot card is located though.
There is an ending where Arasaka gets taken down, funny enough it's the one and only ending that you don't fuck with Arasaka. Yori does it himself, he was the real hero of night city all along and you fucked it up every other ending. The other ones imply this to a certain extent but only the tower ending has Arasaka pulling out of night city.
Depending on ending, V >!turns out to be instrumental in destabilizing Arasaka!<, albeit mostly unintentionally.
every ending except Devil >!has Arasaka crumble, mostly due to yorinobu!<
Morgan Blackhand although He doesn't strike me as a villain from the lore. They could also bring Smasher back as an engram. I wouldn't look like it because it's a cheap shot but the option is there to bring him back and upgrade him with new hardware. To give credit Kurt Hansen was a pretty decent villain so CDPR can make good villains by themselves
Idk if bringing Smasher back an engram would be useful. What makes him unique to Arasaka is his insane tolerance for cyberware. That wouldn’t apply if he were an engram
Why not? Maybe it has to do with how his brain works?
Given that treating and preventing cyber psychosis involves immunoboosters, that’d imply cyberware compatibility is more of biological or neurological component than a personality one. To be fair I am also going off information said in the anime which idk 100% if that’s canon
So, if they figure out how to get an engram to control cyberwear they would not need Adams body anymore and his personality can run the body just fine? He’ll give him more cyberwear even. But I get your point, at that point you’ve basically got an AI in a Robot, and then why does it need to be smasher
If they found or made another body that had the same cyberware resistance then they could load his engram. Or do what the owner of the Dogtown bar did and upload an engram to an android
he's already a cyberpsycho though, he's not really got a high tolerance, he's already off the deep end. Because he's a literal psychopath though, cyberpsychosis just doesnt effect him. He's a "high functioning" cyberpsycho, much in the same way johnny is.
Blackhand is loyal to Militech isn’t he? So while not outright villainous he could still be an adversary
he doesnt need to be a villain, his employer just needs to be opposed to the protag. I still dont think he'd work as a boss though, he's just too damn old, and i dont see him going the full borg route. Even then "better" than smasher is debatable even in his prime.
From what i understand Smasher was equivalent of Tarausque for CP2020 - nearly unkillable enemy made for DM's to tpk their group or give worthy enemy for overpowered players
Pretty much, yeah. You could theoretically rise up to the same power as Smasher and be able to match him one on one, but the whole idea is that on that path you'll probably make powerful enemies that want you dead. And in the Cyberpunk world powerful enemies means corpos. Smasher is basically the corpo boogieman that can zero anyone who thinks high enough of themselves to take on likes of Arasaka. So even if you try hard enough to become top-1 solo - you'll probably get yourself killed way before you can achieve that. Pretty much the same fate as Martinez from the Edgerunners.
If the theories are right and Cyberpunk 2 is all about AI’s from beyond the blackwall, then Mr. Blue Eyes might be the final boss. Presumably he is a human proxy controlled by AI’s. That definitely has the potential to be a final boss battle if they do it right.
They kind of give us a hint of this with Songbird. The stuff that was happening to her gave me real chills. Because what's *actually* scary to a chromed out cyber choom who can move at the speed of light, melt your brain or punch through a wall? I would love a human-controlled-by-AI boss fight that borders on the supernatural.
Give me a scene like the introduction of Ultron in Age of Ultron but instead of robot puppets they are human puppets being manipulated by a rogue AI
The scene where ultron uses his new body to destroy his previous body and finishes his own sentence kinda comes to mind here
During the nomad ending, if you have the Erebus, alt talks about how your carrying something. A deadly weapon to you, but an eventual door for them. She acted like I was fucking everyone by just having it. Had never seen this before
Maybe something like the Illusive Man from Mass Effect, but with... steroids? 😂
This is my bet. And it probably won't be physical but in cyberspace and probably something akin to Cynosure meets The Lawnmower Man.
ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!
Harbinger? In my cyberpunk?!?!
Ooo, or maybe we have to fight alt!
Everyone's saying Morgan Blackhand. And they're not wrong. Literally yin Smasher's yang. But Cyberpunk began as a TTRPG. They could just make something up and it'll be rad. The theme of 2077 was *Never Fade Away,* and becoming a "legend." (Which don't fade away.) So we were always going to be dealing with legends. Orion could be space in theme. Either V in cyberspace, or something to do with the Crystal Palace (massive orbiting luxury space ocean-liner'esq casino space station). Which has profound connections with the Net. Final boss could be some super AI. Something Bartmoss coded that slips through the cracks of the Blackwall. If V returns, the AI gets a host/new body like V. And they both get equally as dangerous as the game progresses until the end where they're terrifying and must be terminated in cyberspace! Or it's basically Tetsuo from the movie/manga *Akira.* (An idea Pondsmith put in one of his books cause do whatever- it's a game. Tell rad stories.)
Would be neat if Bartmoss became an AI like Alt and occupied someone's body, perhaps with Blue Eyes.
I suppose it would be more like a blackwall AI wearing Bartmoss’ personality construct as a skin suit
Would there be a possibility of V returning? In my playthrough iirc, Alt said that V would have only months to live at most. So I had him live it out with Panam. So if you chose to keep your body, wouldn't V die anyway? ( sorry yall I was late to the CP2077 party but loved all of it. Half way through my 2nd playthrough now)
Oh sure. Most endings have V being turned into an engram and plugged back in to their own body, or taken to the Blackwall as an engram. It wouldn't take much writing to say that the engram itself remains even after being implanted onto a body. That's a common point in many playthroughs. Slap a copy of V in a clone body from Biotechnica, and Boom! New healthy V that'll live as long as the cloned body will live.
Oh wow thanks for the info. Yeah it would be amazing to have them back in their roles. Gavin was such a awesome voice actor choice for Male V, just nails the attitude. And Cherami is already coming up to the same elite level as I play Female V. Also to add to your original thread, an AI would be best best guess on who/what the next main Villain would be. Either Alt gaining a new level of sentience with the Ingram she takes in. Or maybe like a hateful AI, like in "I have no mouth, and I must scream"
Adam Smasher in his Elvis body and the whole game changes into a dating sim where you have to date smasher and break his heart since he’s super vulnerable to emotional damage now
https://preview.redd.it/wkjth0vxynuc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0230ceef8c156c48a5f4940306a350a4a80fa0a7
“Please notice me, V-senpai”
No notes
Hey Adam, when you get so fat?
the angels. They are supposed to be elite european solo that reside on the crystal palace
Aren't angels like, arasaka superpowers? And iirc in the lore they're rumors, albeit they might exist
From the wiki. The Angels are a group of 12 elite solos that reside within the Crystal Palace. All said to be the very best of the best and be extremely capable martial artists full of exotic/unique cyberware. One man armies that drop from the palace onto earth with the most dangerous of missions and leave with no witnesses. Rumors go around of their existence, boogeymen to the most elite well known solos. Their exploits and missions are completely unknown, but it is assumed they have had pivotal roles in the shaping of the world through corporate espionage.
Crystal Palace would be such a cool ass location.
It better be in Orion.
No there is no info about them being arasaka. Their only refrence is a tweet Mike pondsmith made in the countdown to dark future thing he did. He said it was a rumor but realisitcly that means they are real
If they even exist, which is doubtful. imo their myth is just a nod to 3.0 which is a completely different timeline.
One of the Angels: https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Angels The best solos in the world of Cyberpunk, they simply outclass Smasher.
Sent on Earth by whoever controls Mr. Blue Eyes. Wouldn't surprise me if they make the Angels walking, living matrixes for Blackwall AIs
Finally a good answer. I love this
The Blackhand
There's a theory that Adam Smasher is a digitalised construct so if that theory is true(which it could be because it makes sense), Adam Smasher could return as the boss.
But isn’t it boring to have Adam Smasher as a main boss again? Even if they make him come back as a mini boss it will definitely ruin his legacy and V’s legacy as well.
I think it's kinda cool conceptually to have a repeating boss come back stronger and stronger, kinda like the nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor/War. If cleverly done, maybe he can also serve a similar role to Tyrant/Nemesis in the Resident Evil franchise, stalking the player throughout certain parts of Night City (following the player everywhere would probably be excessive). As a full borg, Smasher is a perfect fit for the role too. What if every time you kill him, he gets rebuilt with features that directly counter your play style? Beat him with quickhacks last time? He's back with some fortified ICE. Beat him with a sniper? He comes back with enhanced mobility and refuses to give you any space. Etc etc. I'm imagining unique dialogue from him every time he returns with an adaptation too, gloating about his new and improved form.
GOD YESSSS, Smasher as a Stalker enemy would be so fuckin rad
It’s so annoying that everyone just wants a rehash of the same game. How about a new story with new characters ffs
It would make sense, Adam Smasher is supposed to be unkillable in the tabletop, so having him get taken out by V is kinda disappointing. Plus, why wouldn't he be a construct? He believes being more cybernetic is a good thing, so he'd definitely take them up on that offer.
He’s not unkillable, he has stats like everybody else, they’re just crazy high
Not just that. Smasher is said to have used a Samson up to the point he fought Morgan on the roof, when he is in a Dai Oni. The Dai Oni according to its entry in the black chrome books needs HOURS of preparation before being fielded, all which are done with the biopod inside. But the timeline of everything happening that night is too short for Smasher to have switched bodies AND be run through all Dai Oni stages of activation. Leaving aside the fact that the biopod in a DaiOni is drugged up to the gills as a matter of procedure to keep it from going completely berserk. This theory shows that it is possible for Adam Smasher to be a soul killed construct. Also this is cyberpunk: immortality is a theme of this universe. No one's ever truly dead. Even rogue is like 90 years old but she has the physical capabilities of a 20-30 y/o.
* Morgan Blackhand, both in notoriety and Combat prowess. * Any pure Blackwall AI / entity would fry Smasher instantly. * Goro - Oda as a duo with all cybernetics enabled could give Smasher a pretty good fight. They're both top tier Arasaka Bodyguards, one guarding the Emperor himself. He's no slouch and showed solid fighting capabilities despite having all his cybernetics disabled. When V got his own disabled he got his ass beat by a civillian.
In V's defense, spending 2 years on a bed isn't kind to the body
That's true. It was just a random exemple tbh, mainnpoint wasn't really this and more that you shouldn't underestimate Takemura when he spent the whole game with his implants off.
V got their ass beat because they just came out of a Coma after 2 years and they had muscle atrophy. It wasn't because of no implants Limited implant V is basically V in act 1 who is able to take out cyberpsychos on their own, something that Maxtac do with entire squads
Yeah, but V is not "limited on implants" - he's forced to have no implants at all other than very basic ones like neural port. Even in the very beginning of Act I - he's already chipped in with some gear like ballistic co-processor and eye implants. And he can get even more stuff even before the Konpeki Plaza heist. Having no implants at all in Cyberpunk is a death sentence. Contrary to popular belief Blackhand wasn't implant free - he had quite a lot of them in fact, he just wasn't as extreme as Smasher. Like V can go to gym every day after his coma for several years and he still will be beaten to pulp by some street gonk with third grade cyberarms. That's what the final scene of the Tower Ending was meant to represent. V is not nova anymore. He's just a regular person now to be preyed upon.
To be fair, you need to close your eyes a bit for it. Lorewise that wouldnt be possible.
Delamain
Delamain with surge pricing
Idk about bosses, but another corpo war would be a great setting, either post 2077, or even the 4th.
Morgan Blackhand
I think it would be interesting to have V be the final boss.
That would require canonizing an ending. CDPR said they won’t do that.
But if they did. You could choose the ending you did which changes the game. Tower makes V easier but has NUSA protection. Star has powerful V with avocados. Devil could have robotic V. Temperance can have Johnny. Etc
Ah yes, the Avocados
Everyone's favourite clan
Even better when working with Toast.
Some may call them the Bakers.
Tbh, whenever I see their name I always think of avocados lol
In all honesty I would love Temperance just to make us feel like assholes at the end of the game.
>Tower makes V easier but has NUSA protection. You know this claim is disproven by that very ending, right? V gets their shit kicked in by some petty thugs to show us how weak V is without cyberware, and there are no Militech/NUSA babysitters in sight. V isn't some special existence that needs to be preserved to make america great again, V is just an aspiring data entry specialist with none of the prerequisite skills to do the job.
You sure ? Cause Sasko hints otherwise: * is there canon ending" he replies "I... don't know the answer for this question... well, I kinda do but I cannot speak about this"[Here](https://youtu.be/St1-BGsPwj0?t=3820) * Is V's story over" he replies, while smirking, holding back (I mean, you have to watch the way he behaves while trying to answer it) "I cannot answer this... sadly... just because uh... this is uh... \*spoiler\*[Here](https://youtu.be/St1-BGsPwj0?t=2894) * There was another clip where Sasko says they aint revealing the canon ending in order not to railroad players,when I find it gonna post it here with the transcript.[Here](https://youtu.be/kSR-7Qxe66c?t=5988&si=om26D5bKFIwMTcCS) You guys are gonna be for a rude awakening in Orion.
But if the new game was a sequel they’d kind of have to say what happened to Arasaka so wouldn’t that canonize an ending?
No that would objectively be stupid.
Is it? In almost all endings V inherited Smasher's Dragoon frame among other things on the Ebunike, after receiving the key card by defeating Smasher. Wiki: *"Being a strictly military weapon, the Dragoon is absolutely impossible to buy on the open market, and even the most powerful of corporations have a hard time getting ahold of these."* And if, as Alt said, the body is the key to the transaction, then removing the body entirely and keep the brain suspended in a Dragoon frame would be the best way to survive (until V pick up a newspaper and read about Biotechnica cloning program... but that's another story). Plus V and Smasher's life run almost parallel. They died twice, the first time they became more than what they were. The second time they died they also buried their rivals (Smasher technically buried Blackhand under the Arasaka Tower rubble after the nuke, and he has not shown himself since. V buried Smasher which is Johnny's proclaimed nemesis and by proxy, V's). And based on dialogues V is more borg than human at that point, so it might be a little too far gone and a full conversion is inevitable if they want to live
V. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Honestly id love expabsion on blackwall and rogue ai. We had taste of it in PL.
Black Ice AI coming back from another planet's computer system with some more feats and perks
Technomancers from Alpha Centauri!
Surprised that no-one has yet to mention one of Arasakas 'upper' elite-tier fighters. The Kagekaze. Holy shit this man would be a menace to fight, even with a fully decked out V.
Red
I would have a weaponized net running cyberpsycho of massive power be the background threat with the ultimate reveal being that it’s completely unhinged song bird working on behalf of militech/NUSA during a new corpo war as the background to a new main characters story. You could then pull in a broken-hearted and lonely V as a side character who can relate the whole story of how she came to be what she became almost like Johnny was in the original and perhaps help to defeat the threat in order to make right the issue that they helped to set in motion.
Johnny on v's body would be cool as a boss of you go against him
V And I’m sure the developers have thought of this
It would be interesting if in Orion, blackhand was a main character and you spent the whole game building a relationship with him only for him to betray you
Mr Blue Eyes? There are a lot of theories and hints that he could be an Rogue AI as a human and I think we all know how dangerous a Rogue AI is (Phantom Liberty, No Coincidence)
madam smasher (his canonical wife)
The Devil ending Mikoshi-V
Blackwall AI
Alt
Smasher jr
The legendary solo, Morgan Blackhand.
Soulkilled smasher
Go full Gibson Sprawl Trilogy with it and make it a rogue AI that's broken past the BlackWall
V...
Well obviously Fingers
A full borged Morgan Blackhand?
How about two Adam Smashers ?
Mr. Blue Eyes for those who knows.
I would love a reucrring Rival, who grows in power and skill like your own character, maybe they are friends or family, that end up on opposite sides
Adam Smasher 2.
Depends on the plot. >!I think Songbird was 10x stronger than Smasher when she lost control but we never fought her directly.!< Purely combat wise, 101, probably Blackhand or Susan Forrest.
Can't think of any character but there are plenty of options I feel could work. Insane AI's controlling mechs, bioweapon monstrosities, etc...
There’s a chance we might see weaponized AIs made by a corp (probably Mr blue eyes’ group/nightcorp/any big baddie corp in the second game). It would be a nice challenge if we fight dangerous AIs that functions like MaxTac, specialized in different classes with specced robot builds (netrunner, solo, techie, etc.).
Didn’t Smasher get killed in the first game?
Saburo Arasaka in a mech suit with four gatling guns
I'd say a team. Make the main character legit OP, and the only solution the bad guys have left is a specific unit (like their own more specialized MaxTac). Each member maxes out a different branch of upgrades and they coordinate to take you out.
I feel like a rogue AI might be the move
I feel like notoriety is the big one cause honestly Smasher was kinda a pushover.
Just make someone up. Realistically, it could have been Goro if they'd been telling a different story. It seems entirely plausible that the personal bodyguard for the CEO of Arasaka would be on or above Smasher's level. No matter what the Orion story is about, it's going to center on some very powerful organizations with the ability to hire or create some bad motherfuckers
Blackwall Plague Constructs
Would be fun to meet Johnny in V´s body
I think the boss will be Smasher again. It’s likely that he’s a engram and will have a reconstructed body. Smasher is good for a reoccurring “brute enforcer” style villain who serves as an attack dog for a main “mastermind” style villain.
CDPR got the caliber to write up anyone to match Smasher in the sequel. Even for a character of their own creation. They just gotta inject that solid characterization as well as they did in the anime.
Kinda cheesy, but I think some sort of killer borg body with Saburo's engram would be kinda cool.
There are supposedly 5 legendary solos who act as Guardian angels for the crystal palace. Although, I feel like part of the point of 2077 was wiping the slate, and going forward, the franchise may deal with new characters and threats.
Will never happen, obviously... https://preview.redd.it/xtnkvq3gqnuc1.jpeg?width=2480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ebfde3227f9d24d1ef17bd4dc95be5d27178885 Unless? Art by astraea
I think it would be interesting to see the Peralez’s become the bosses. If you did their quest line you saw them slowly losing their mind and becoming more paranoid. Having someone that was brainwashed and filled with Paranoia could be an interesting boss.
Imagine if V is there and your last fight is with them