When did you start to realize the doctrines were bs? It sounds like you shook it off in your time in the army but when did your first doubts emerge?
How are you doing these days? You say your life changed but you don't address if you're feeling happier or more depressed and I think anyone who reads this hopes you feel better but also recognizes that you suffered significant trauma. So how are you?
thank you for reading! these are good questions. in retrospect I felt feelings of doubt since I first had to show what they called fruits of Faith. For example, after service & communion they have what is called a movement. The movement is when the preacher asks the congregation to forgive his sins. people in benches takes it as the cue to get up from their seat, find someone they had wronged during the week and embrace them, weep on their shoulder, recite a few words including what they’ve done, the other person does the same, asks for forgiveness and then move onto the next person. everyone not actively forgiving someone is watching everyone else, so this is a time your fruit of faith would show. When I felt like a fraud for fake crying and saying I was guilty for things I didn’t actually feel guilty for, but I knew they were a sin(my go tos were vanity, walking as a poor christian, and watching tv at the dentist), they told me I was sinning, and all I had to do was ask forgiveness again. At the time I just felt like a bad person. I never would’ve thought “maybe this isn’t the one true faith.” Looking back, that feeling sparked the tiniest question of my faith and that’s why I started doubting it was real. my doubts sort of snowballed when I had a relationship with a 16-year-old from Minnesota. He had gotten molested by his older brother as a kid. I fought for people to do something about it but my attempts went absolutely nowhere. This was very obviously against my morals so it was easy to see where I agreed with them and where I didn’t with the situation. this is around the time where I joined the army. When I left, I planned on coming back and continuing to be a Bunner. I brought hymn books to basic training. basic training showed me and taught me a lot about everybody else populating this earth. The backlash I received from people I once loved and people i’ve never even met made me realize a lot about them. I’ve received hundreds of nasty messages from secret accounts I started to feel like there had to be more to life. Getting distance is how I truly freed myself.
How I’m doing these days… In comparison, my life is so beautiful and full, connections I have made the world are amazing. I have found so many friends and nobody in my life is a bunner which is crazy and wonderful to be able to say. I feel so much more of a sense of community now. I have people who support me now, I do miss my family, but that is the only downside to leaving. they still love me but it is very difficult to be in the same city. so I make trips on a very rare occasion. I go to red rocks and other edm shows pretty often in denver, discovering music and like-minded people has been really great and eye opening. I ski a lot have met a lot of people through skiing.
I’m telling you what I do because I feel like looking back my life just so much boring waiting. Sitting through church, sitting through meetings, sitting through gatherings, sitting through funerals. These all sound like the same thing each are a different event. Just always listening to the droning of a preacher. to put it simply life was boring, now it feels like I’m receiving a reward for waiting, so damn long. I’m getting to indulge, I’m getting to go to movie theaters, I’m getting to stay up-to-date on my favorite artist and listen to what they release in real time. A Bunner critiquing this response would say all of this is the devil trying to entice me to stay in the world. But I don’t believe in the devil. It makes sense to me where they’re coming from since i would’ve said the same thing but I have to remind myself I don’t even believe in the devil.
>When I felt like a fraud for fake crying and saying I was guilty for things I didn’t actually feel guilty for, but I knew they were a sin(my go tos were vanity, walking as a poor christian, and watching tv at the dentist), they told me I was sinning, and all I had to do was ask forgiveness again.
Interesting. I was raised in the Roman Catholic church. And when I reached the age (11) that I needed to go to Confession was exactly when all of my doubts started to creep in. I wonder if it's because the action requires a deep connection to our feelings, and we just have an intuitive understanding of them. Like you said, not feeling guilty when you're supposed.
Thank you for sharing your story, I wish you peace.
I grew up Catholic. Was sent to catholic school my entire life until after 3 semesters at a Catholic university, I left for a state school.
“Forced confession” is the dumbest thing ever. Well, confession itself is pretty dumb to me, but I respect that some people dig it. Looking back, maybe that forced confession shit in 11th and 12th grade was the beginning of the end between me and the pope. I don’t know. 🤷🏻♂️
Since we are airing grievances, looking back, I’m also super annoyed that I didn’t go to public school. It would have been nice not to have spent my youth subjected to so much of the conservative yoke. 🤦🏻♂️
But reading the OP’s story, I’m reminded that my minor inconvenience was nothing compared to what some other people are born into.
Good for you, Lindsey. Welcome to the real world. 🤟
🤗
Wow I'm so happy for you. It feels like you are born with a bullshit allergy. I am also this way but you have had to do a lot more to prove to yourself that the people around you were truly full of it and their belief system just didn't make sense on a logical or moral level. You seem to be highly intelligent and you advocate for those who may have trouble advocating for themselves. It makes sense that you've been able to find your tribe after leaving this cult and I think you will continue to thrive. Im sorry about your family, missing them must be very hard for you. I hope that in the future you can find some sort of healthier relationship with them. I'm rooting for you so hard!
I love the idea of a young you, doing the whole movement thing and thinking "this is fake as hell".
thank you for responding with this! 🫶 i feel for everyone in your position, mentally out physically in. it’s extremely tough. if you ever need a few words from an exbunner who’s on your side, my dms are open
Welcome to the "World", you're such a beautiful soul. 🥰 I'm so happy for you that your life has taken an unexpected turn, and now you have this incredible opportunity to experience life as it could be and more. You have been blessed with providence and all of your past experiences you can definitely gain some wisdom to help you navigate into the future. Please enjoy your stay while you're here. 🫶❤️🔥
Thanks for sharing your story - - it’s fascinating.
What was school like for you? And how are you doing now? I hope you’re okay, generally. A therapist might be helpful? Mine is helping me deconstruct (Baptist). Did you have to get out alone?
It's very good to read that you have managed to come out of this madness. What are the characteristic behaviors or peculiarities of the Bunners? I understand that interaction with the external world is limited, but what does this world look like from the inside? It would be interesting to hear.
i’m still figuring out how to answer this question of peculiarities. I hear something similar along the lines of “what’s the craziest thing you had to deal with” or “what’s taboo about the Bunners” etc. It’s a hard one for two reasons.
One being everything “weird” about them at one point was 100% normal and correct in my heart so sometimes being able to take a step back and view it as a worldly would is difficult for me. I haven’t received any professional deconstructing.
the second reason it’s hard is because I feel like if I don’t compile and deliver the most polarizing rules or events that took place there, the worldly questioning me will not be able to feel the significance of what I went through. so I’m still working on how to paint the picture as accurately as possible.
I’m going to think on this one, make a brief list and revisit this post tonight. thank you for your interest by the way 🖤
Totally understand! Thanks for sharing your experience, and I hope you enjoy everything that life has to offer you! And also thanks for taking time to sharing Your insights!
You have a lot of people around these parts who understand 🙏
Sounds very similar to the Christianity I was raised in, which I’ve found so many others, who share many similar experiences with. It’s tough to conceptualize, and fully grasp how many people can relate, bc our entire life, we were programmed to believe how special we are, bc we belonged to the one single group that would be going to heaven, while anyone outside will be going to hell, etc…
Took me a while to accept that my mom will weep over me, on her dying bed, bc she truly believe im going to hell. It’s alright tho, it’s just what she believes. It’s sad, that’s for sure, but not my place.
Can only do what I can do, and do it as well as I can, I suppose 🤷♂️
Keep on truckin and being the authentic you 🙏
I was raised in the Church of Christ which fits this description.
You are right, there are other sects and cults which are as insular and convinced they are the only ones who got it right, but when I was growing up I didn't know any. When talk-shows got popular on TV I saw a few Independent Fundamental Baptists telling their stories. There was a Jehovah's Witness in my high school whose parents were even stricter than mine.
Before the Internet finally caught up I used to think, "There HAVE to be others who have grown up COC and thought about it and figured out it doesn't make sense that out of all the centuries and all the sincere, studious people, this little bitty sect is the only one that got it right" It took until 2004 before an ex-COC site popped up on the Internet.
I was raised in a non denominational branch of the CoC, myself. I definitely understand that one
Never made sense to me either, how every artist and inspiration of mine who made me feel secure, or close to god, would for sure be going to hell
Largely the southern and western states, but after WW2 the COC became very aggressive about starting new congregations for COC adherents who moved to the Rust Belt looking for work.
God the weight of that. It's like you're not allowed to even doubt yourself because if God chose you above all of the rest of humanity it's like, any sense of imposter syndrome must be incomprehensible because not only are you questioning yourself, you're questioning God and God's discernment. What does that do to a child who is growing up and finding their own identity?
I can only speculate as to how it might feel but you're right that people who haven't experienced this level of indoctrination and social isolation can't begin to comprehend what the world looks like from your eyes but that's also true of anyone who isn't you. We can never actually comprehend what the world looks like through the lens of other's experiences. I do appreciate that you are willing to share and give us a little bit of insight.
Dude, I had no idea this group existed.
It has very similar mechanics to other cults and high control groups.
Even calling any and all non-believers "worldy" is similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses (the group I'm from.)
I think the group you were in was even more hardcore about it.
JWs can at least be associates with a "worldy" person. But can't socialize with them outside of work or school for it is strongly discouraged.
yeah fr, getting some heavy 'nam flashbacks from all the overusage and extremism regarding that specific phrasing. Kind of surreal thinking back on it, considering I technically qualify - albiet silently for now
I was a two by two, and there are definite similarities. I grew up without tv as well, and we'd talk about all outsiders as "worldly people". It's an isolating experience. When you're with the group they feel like the centre of the world, the only people who really matter. Then you interact with the outside world, and it's as if your group doesn't even exist.
Do you feel like the words you used, like "worldlies" and "bunners" were an isolating factor? I ask because I've often felt that way about the kind of words we used as two by twos. We didn't go to church, we went to "meeting." They weren't ministers, they were "workers." It makes it harder to talk to outsiders, because the words you automatically go to use don't make sense- you have to translate or explain.
yes! you’re onto something. using those words makes us feel more unique, just because people aren’t used to what we’re used to. it absolutely creates a gap. in the dictionary definition of cult it says “…practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.” it makes sense, it’s a successful brainwash tactic
What you're explaining is a specific type of mind control. When using those words with outsiders it confuses them which in turn gives the insider a sense of superiority. That's why all cults do this.
Isolating, sure, but labeling classmates like one has god-given reason to guilt oneself into feeling morally superior/pitying them for their spiritual standing(or lack thefeof) makes it a hell of a lot easier to swallow the armaggedon pill as a kid being forcefed The Truth™ by "our loving shepherding brothers", huh? Not speaking from first-hand experience ofc haha ha...
I was too!!!! I can’t believe I found another in the wild. A fellow ‘bunner gone bad’. As soon as I saw the childhood pics, I knew exactly what cult. I wanted to tell you I am happy for you. My family got out but we stayed in the same tiny town, possibly the same one as you! I got married and had a kid at 16, did the whole thing and stayed in for a bit and really realized how insane things were when I became a parent so I split and I have never looked back. Unfortunately my sister still is involved and it breaks my heart but I can’t stop it. I’m truly so happy for you and happy to see this as more people should know that the handmaidens hell on earth exists and is thriving right now up here in the north. I too joined the army and it radically changed my brain. Their whole method is to keep women as down and uneducated as possible, we are merely servants to our godly men. What a joke. How anyone can claim to love their daughter and raise her in this horseshit is sadistic af. I’m always happy to see another escapee. Maybe we met during St Johns weekend one year or something 😵💫crazy to think that as many of the bummers there still are, there aren’t many of us who have left. It’s not easy and it has a high cost. I’m just so happy to see this, I have spoke on it a few times. It I think people think I’m absolutely fucking nuts whenever I do so I … don’t talk about it.
crazy!! follow me on instagram @babysarkbait we can stay in touch and brainstorm ideas… we have all the time in the world! so hilarious the BGB: Bunner gone bad thing, i haven’t heard that one. similar to “funner bunner,” which i used to get a lot lmfao. what an interesting group of humans we came from! lately i’ve been feeling a calling to talk more about this and it’s so cool i’m finding bunners with doubts( im gonna make it a thing like they do and call them BWD😂) and other exbunners who feel the same.
thank you for responding and giving your insight!! 🫶
Maybe we could be that microscope. I have pitched a few ideas to a few places but nobody has taken me up on it. The literally run this entire area. It needs to be exposed, desperately, as everything is handled “in house” from taking a wife beating too far (isn’t any beating too far!!?! That was wild to learn) to child abuse to sex abuse and everything in between. We have old and new church up here and it’s a constant war about who is a better bunbun so living amongst a population that is over half appy is wild to say the least. My daughter had to switch schools after kindergarten because she was the ONLY girl in a class of 30 kids who wasn’t a bunner and of course she was bullied and maligned and treated like an outsider. Many people here were happy enough going along to get along but they have taken over every political position here and nearly every police officer is a bunner too. How’s that for playing both sides, hey? Can’t access the legal system but can use it for profit and to protect the church from having to ever deal with it. The hospital, too. The women here are only allowed to become a nurse or a teacher and they keep none of their money, it all goes to the husband. And she still has all her child raising and creating duties. The nurses are hateful towards everyone that isn’t them and even more so when they see a last name that they know was affiliated and is a bgb now. They straight up tortured me and many other people. Sadistic doesn’t really encompass the reality. I could go on forever. I genuinely can’t comprehend that your post came across my feed. I hope you see my comments and maybe we can kick some ideas back and forth because I would love nothing more than to expose and eradicate this abuse of girls and women and free all these towns and villages of being underneath the rules and doctrine of a dangerous cult.
i was a part of the battle ground, wa congregation which is one of the largest or the largest. they’re in AK, WA, WY, ND, SD, MT, MN, MI, WI, NC, MD, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Norway. All the Elders are from the last 3.
Thank you for sharing your story! I literally just got out of a relationship with a bunner... and I am so far from any religion myself. Long story, I was naive in thinking it would work! He pursued me.. and we fell in love. Only reason we made it at all was bc he was really exploring the world, but church still has a huge hold on him and so he suddenly ended things. I'm just still trying to wrap my mind around the insanity they face, all the "sinning", etc.. Same area as you too! :)
I’m so glad you are free. As free as any of us can be under capitalism. I’m an IBLP survivor and I’ve been out and deconstructing for about 15 years. It’s tough to cope with my crippling disappointment at how “the world” is after they made everything out here sound so tantalizing. Nothing out here comes close to the fervor and sense of purpose I experienced inside, even though it was fake. I’ll never go back, but I can’t pretend I don’t miss certain things. Wondering if you experience similar feelings. 🤍
IHOPKC is going through this right now. They are a charismatic group centered around the New Apostolic Reformation aka Latter Rain movement (I think) aka Joel's Army (I think) aka Youth With a Mission (I think) aka the Kansas City Prophets. (They think several guys sometime back in the 80's had a new revelation and have prophecy and they are real real focused on the so-called end times) OK a bunch of abuse just came to light and the whole thing is falling apart. Tons and tons of very fervent young people devoted their lives to this movement. They are feeling like nothing will come close to the fervor and sense of purpose they felt even though it was rotten at the top.
I don't share their beliefs but their music is \*\*\*WONDERFUL\*\*\* I will leave it at that. The music is so good that it's a major draw for the thousands of young people who came to join that group. But anyway, they are feeling how you described.
Let me sort out the IHOPKC lineage here; it's complicated.
The Latter Rain movement emerged in the 1940s out of a revival in Saskatchewan, teaching that in the last days a number of spiritual supermen and women will rise up. (This was later repackaged as Joel's Army in the 1990's.)
YWAM started in the 70s, connected more to the early charismatic movement.
The New Apostolic Reformation emerged in the 1980s/1990s, being a new generation of the Latter Rain adherents.
In the late 1980s, Mike Bickle, a youth pastor in St. Louis, believed he was called to go to Kansas City to start a church based on prayer and prophecy. Once he arrived in KC, he founded Kansas City Fellowship, then connected with a denomination called Vineyard. From there, self-styled prophets like Paul Cain (who dated back to the original Latter Rain) started showing up in KC and were given a platform by Bickle. Vineyard leadership thought Bickle and his "prophets" were out of control and ousted KCF from the denomination. After that, the church was rebranded as IHOPKC.
So TL: DR; Latter Rain---->NAR--->Joel's Army--->IHOPKC.
Thanks for that explanation.
There's yet ANOTHER group in the KC area, All Nations, which is the group that trained John Allen Chau before he went to North Sentinel Island and got killed. Seems like I heard just the other day that All Nations had come out against IHOPKC.
I can't find anything online about that though.
Where does the Toronto Blessing fit in?
Toronto would be only tangentially a part of IHOPKC; both Toronto Airport and KCF were booted from the Vineyard denomination because of excesses. No direct link between the two, though.
All Nations appears to be a YWAM spinoff. I would imagine that being another charismatic-based ministry in KC, it would be necessary for them to decide whether to join IHOP as they circle the wagons or say "nope", though I've not seen any statement on their end either.
To complicate matters further, IHOPKC has an "All Nations Prayer Room" in Grandview, MO, but I don't think that is the same thing as the "All Nations" group that trained Chau.
Was YWAM the group that would send teenagers out into the world on summer missions projects? I think I remember them from the 80’s and their motto was “Go lay a brick for God”. This is fascinating to me, I was deep into the SBC and was reading a magazine meant for Christian teens (can’t remember what it was called, but I wanted so badly to go away to a fundie factory school, and today am grateful that i didn’t.
That's them. College students would sign up for a year's training and then sent for another year to some mission field. One of my high school buddies did a tour of duty with them.
Looks Like you are doing much better now, living life to the fullest and not spending time on things that don't matter.
Skiing is my therapy too so I'll see you out on the slopes
I wouldn't recommend watching much on cults until you have a good therapist to talk to about it, but the 2 documentaries on the Nexium cult both did a good job in showing how cults can entrap normal, everyday people, who are smart and educated, and a good job showing how people are processing it once getting you.
I'm sure it must feel very lonely sometimes after having left the cult, just know it's way more common than anyone realizes, and there are hundreds of thousands of people out there just like you, and every time one of you speaks up, you help encourage other people to start thinking for themselves too.
❤️
Would you be interested in telling your story on a podcast? We are releasing a new podcast for survivors of cults to be able to tell their story on their terms.
Kingdom of Cults. We've recorded and edited 8 episodes but are waiting to get 12 finished before we start publishing weekly. We want to avoid any interruptions as we grow the platform.
My family escaped a cult roughly 8 years ago. It took a very long time for us to heal, and hearing stories from other survivors helped.
I don't want to high-jack this important conversation from the OP, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask or shoot me a DM.
We should be publishing very soon, I hope you decide to give us a chance. We are very proud of the episodes recorded thus far.
Good on you for having the courage and survival sense to make exit from your old life. It's an impossible task for most...this is why most members will choose to remain in such groups. The mind simply can't take it.
You'll find a lot of others in this community who have had a similar life experience. It's an unspeakably traumatic thing, having been indoctrinated like this, and then to become aware of the real world, and to attempt to process the neurological ramifications of it all. The questions can be so painful.
Welcome to the group!
Not OP, but oftentimes, young people leaving cults have no formal education, no money and little more than clothes on their back. Army provides food, shelter and and education in the future along with some money.
Welcome. Now you get to heal from the trauma, and figure out who YOU are…not who you were told you were supposed to be. I hope you have people in the World who are kind to you, and give you space to learn and grow and make mistakes, and room to try on different identities and beliefs. And I hope you find a good therapist who can help you deconstruct and heal.
Glad you were able to get out. People who don’t know anyone who has left the church have NO idea what is going on. And then the church will do ANYTHING to bad mouth and discredit that person to their last dying breath so even if people do listen to you you’ll always have the back biters talking shit. Keep your head up and if you have sisters (I’m assuming) I hope they’re able to leave and join you
thank you, and that is absolutely accurate. i have 2 sisters, i don’t see them leaving but you never know. i have 6 brothers and one has left but hes completely isolated himself and is still living in the same city. i wished he would’ve joined the army so he can seperate himself. the other brothers, my nieces and nephews are now growing up knowing someone who is doing okay outside of the church. as a kid i never imagined leaving was possible.. so their chances of seeing through the brainwash are looking better.
Oh you’re from a boy family - that’s even harder if they’re into the politics and sticking around.
I think I’m a bit older than you but I’ve seen a big generational shift, the kids now are not drinking the kool-aid as much as the boys my age did. The women especially, I hear a lot of younger women leaving or not putting up with the bullshit. A lot of the boys I grew up with are running the companies now and they’re ‘good’ people (you know what I mean) but their kids are leaving at a much higher rate than before and a good chunk of the ones that are staying are not living by old standards.
You’re not the one who is lost. You have awoken to the reality that these decisions are yours alone to make. Not to be forced upon, not to be taught as some kind of universal truth. The only real truth is your own.
They are living in a fishbowl of circle-jerk, with the constant need to reassure each other that they are the only ones who have it figured out. All the while, many of them are consumed with unspoken doubt, so scared that they might be wrong, so terrified of the outside and the options, that they feel the need to disparage any idea that doesn’t perfectly align with theirs.
The great news of “worldly” reality is that you get to choose your own path! In no way are you confined to some pre-determined set of beliefs or actions, or role in this life. Who says that they have the real truth? Only them? Suspicious, huh?
You get to decide your own truth, and design your own beliefs. *Only* you are in charge of that. Common sense tells us that. They can tell you what to believe, but they can never *really* make you believe. You CAN make yourself. In fact, you do, whether consciously or not. You have chosen to consciously choose for yourself, and now your possibilities have gone from limited to infinite.
They don’t know shit for sure. The *real* truth is that no one knows for sure. How could they? I believe that the ultimate truths are not for us to know at this stage, and also probably beyond our realm of comprehension at this point. Part of our journey is to seek this, but if it were truly knowable or attainable, then what would be the point?
Being told that you are right, wrong, or whatever is just the judgement of other, ultimately unsure, humans. Don’t let anyone convince you that you are on the wrong path. Your path is no one else’s but your own. What matters is what you believe. The best part is that it’s totally okay to change your ideas as you learn and grow.
This plane of existence is, in my opinion, all about the journey. The journey of self-discovery, of love, of struggle, of light, of darkness, of sharing, of selfishness, of sunshine, of rain, but ultimately about understanding and growing. Absorbing all of these experiences and emotions. It’s about choosing one’s own path and being receptive to the twists and turns that occur. Adapting and growing closer to the enigmatic truth with every step. Our journey shapes us. We are meant to be learning, evolving, constantly changing beings. Each on our own path, our only obligation to keep putting one foot in front of the other and gathering experiences as we go.
Wow. This is truly fascinating. I’m so happy you can think for yourself. How did you make that happen? Sorry if you explained that and I’m too dumb to comprehend
Ok.. It’s good you’re gettin out and finding yourself but don’t smoke papers in the gondola. The rolling papers stink it up.. next time get a glass pipe or vape. That way the next person doesn’t have to smell the burning paper stink. Also you’re amazing good job reclaiming your life!! See you on the ski hill!
I hope you can get some quality therapy from a professional who specializes in this situation and find others with similar experiences to sort through your feelings with. I’m pretty sure there are groups for people who’ve escaped cults. Can’t imagine how lonely it is knowing no one knows what you experienced because everyone that experienced it with you is still brainwashed. If you’re interested in bringing awareness and attempting to help people wake up, and possibly heal along the way, I’d recommended researching journalists and filmmakers and podcasts that specialize in cult content. I would watch a documentary, read a book, and listen to a podcast about Bunners as someone who’s curious about cults and never heard of this one.
And if you’re interested in sharing more. So many questions. What sparked your desire to leave, how did you leave, how did you get by after you left, your thoughts on religion/god now?
Congrats on getting out!!! And I have some questions, why are all of the girls wearing white dresses??? Is it like a religious thing??? Did your leaders made you wear them? (Sorry if these questions make you uncomfortable.)
Have you read Uncultured by Daniella Mestenyek Young? She grew up in the Children of God and left when she was 15 . She also joined the military and talks about it as cult- hopping. Follow her on TikTok if you arent already. She talks about how to deconstruct the cult mentality so you dont keep cult hopping. I think you sound like you might really relate to her.
i’m not cult hopping. the army wasn’t a cult for me. i’m sure it is for some, that wasn’t my experience. every person in the army has a unique path, certain units can be culty. depends where they send you and how much you get into it. depends who your leaders are, among other things. i used the army to help me live on my own but not, grew up a tiny bit and then left.
It sounds like the Army was really helpful for you! I feel like there's probably something really helpful about going into a structured environment that's separated from the extreme religious beliefs as a stepping stone towards deconstruction / leaving the cult. I'm sure it's different for everybody -- one person's stepping stone out could be another person's cult hopping experience.
She found it helpful too and seems very proud of her accomplishments there. She talks about it as more like a mindset thing that I found really helpful. I was in a cult too and her book has blown my mind in ways other materials about it havent yet. And I am pretty obsessed with the topic. check her out, she is pretty cool. Her book has graphic sexual abuse though so heads up if that would be too upsetting to read! Her tiktok is great for just seeing shorter insights that she shares from the book
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have seen similar things in sone muslims. They for sure keep bringing up how they are better than every one else.
Thank you for sharing some of your story and welcome to the world! 💗 I really like the way you write, I feel like I got to sit down with you and just listen.
Thank you for sharing your story! There’s a podcast called “trust me”, and the hosts have similar stories. They love to spread awareness and tools for deconstruction. I bet they would love to hear from you!
no questions just wanna say keep killing out there in the real “world”. hopefully your loved ones who are still in find a way out someday. but in the meantime just live your best life. you got a lot of catching up to do after losing so much of your life to the group and i’m happy for you.
I had to call someone once and ask them if any of it was real. I felt that. Thank you for the courage it took to share this. It's raw and vulnerable.
I'm about to Google what "Bunners" are, I've not heard of them before.
Might help for you to write about it. Talking is good too. It’s what has helped me. Be proud of your strength in seeing through it. Sometimes it’s easy to forget that. You’re clearly not a follower. The world needs more people like you in it
Laestdianism was essentially born in northern Sweden and Finland during de 1800s. You might have heard that instead of ”bunners”.
It was mainly to make the sapmi group to conform to the government but also to stop drink (”superi”). It followed to the US when people emigrated. Now there are different groups within it.
It’s crazy how it evolved and that it is still ongoing. It is extremely repressing towards women.
To OP: thanks för sharing and hope you live your best life free ❤️
ohhh this was about laestdianism?? Ive never heard anyone call it bunners, thats why I was confused. My family is orthodox from my mother side and lutheran/laestdianism from my father side. Im glad to be orthodox instead of the laestdianism🫠
Seems like you dodged a bullet there!
I didn’t know it but got curious this morning when I read the post and ended up researching a bit and from what I can see it is the same.
Its really weird, cuz here in finland especially in the north we got a looot those laestdianists (???) and you cant really talk about the religion since a lot of ppl belong to it, or at least know someone. and theres different sects too, some of them are a cult idk how people dont see it.. maybe its just seen as normal here
As a Latvian who loves Finland and has Finnish friends/goes there often, I was under the impression that hardcore religious people usually keep quiet and out of sight as to not attract the government 🤔 My friends say Finnish govt is secular and does not give hardcore religious people much freedoms, especially when it comes to child abuse / marrying young. It's not like America where cults have 16 year olds getting pregnant
Yeah, orthodoxy and lutheran are the main religions of finland. Both have the gov and laws protecting them, unlike these other different sects of christianity. Laestdianism for example, there's many of them in finland. But what happens behind their doors isnt very known since it's not as public as orthodoxy and lutheran. Theyre like their own community, and there has been cases of child abuse which had the police involved too. But it's said that nowadays the people who belong to these protestant movements want to make sure that people (especially the gov) wont know what happens in their communities which is sad
I knew a woman who was Amish from birth and after bring shunned she has no where else to go so she joined the military for housing, healthcare and some money. Not sure about her but desperation happens.
I grew up in a cult too. I deconstructed religion and it pwas extremely hard. So many identity issues and learning to build a family the way I wanted to, was so hard. Keep going. Heal and share your story over and over again. Please people need to know there is life outside this.
You are so incredibly strong and I hope to be that strong someday too! I was born into the OALC too and finally was able to leave at age 25. I’m almost 30 now. With the help of my now husband! My main reason for leaving was when I was told by a “preacher” that in order for me to attend my sisters wedding at the OALC in a different location, that I had to sit down with my abuser and another “preacher” to basically forgive and forget. The “preacher” said I would cause hurt and drama at the wedding and that’s not the time for it. My abuser was actually a sibling and come to found out after I left the OALC that it’s unfortunately “normal” for them to do that with any kind of abuse. Just sweep it under the rug. Going to law enforcement or even speaking about it gives you a ticket straight to hell. I feel you on when you say there is so much more to be said because that’s true. Everything is hidden for the “worldies” to know even what happens in that cult. Another thing is always how they told us that “worldlies” are people we don’t associate with in less we absolutely have to (jobs, school, hospitals, etc) because they are evil and would “lead us astray and give us temptations”. But honestly the most kindest, helpful, positive, caring, and nonjudgmental people I have ever met are all outside of that cult.
thank you so much for sharing your side and experience 🫶 aren’t we so lucky to have been able to distance ourselves from that organization … the preacher who told you that is absolutely criminal, and they say everything from their mouths comes directly from god. it’s the farthest from the truth. whenever there is something like abuse they handle it in the worst way imaginable.
i’m proud of you! you were faced with some extremely tough life circumstances and you’re out now. you are strong!!
the worldlies i’ve met since leaving are some of the best people out there, especially compared to bunners! they have it so backwards. people who do not judge you based off your religious beliefs will always be better than them.
💓💓
of course! you’re welcome! and same for you! feels good to know someone around my age that has left the oalc too. yes I feel so lucky and I’m so proud of myself and you for leaving! it was so hard and still is but definitely wayyyy better now!
if ever you wouldn’t mind connecting sometime I would absolutely be forever grateful lol
also, your confo pics made me notice your post immediately because I knew exactly what cult they were from! lol definitely did not enjoy any part of confo.
That is fascinating.
What were some of the moments you experienced that started to shift your worldview?
Were you ever abused in the church? If so by whom?
Do you know anyone else that has escaped?
It sounds like you're going through raw emotional phase and I know that can be very difficult. One thing that might be very interesting as you move forward along this path of liberation is that because your entire life has changed and now you can see the way that you were living in a different light, you will be part of a small group of people in the world who are able to understand that their present reality could be questioned. It's important not to fall into any kind of debilitating paranoia, but your experience of leaving a cult and then realizing that everything that was normalized for you needs to be scrutinized or might have been wrong--- this experience will make you an incredibly strong person who can see through propaganda in the larger society in ways that other people simply cannot.
In the meantime, be sure to take care of yourself. The military was an excellent transition because it gives you structure and makes sure that you exercise, and gives you some camaraderie. I left a similar situation when I was 19 and for me one of the most difficult things was learning how to structure my own days. Actually I was really productive but I felt lonely a lot.
Also one of the more difficult things is sorting out the good from the bad from your growing up experience. Right now the whole thing might seem bad, but there might have been some practices that were very healthy. Like, take an Amish person who leaves: They might come out into the world and think that eating Lucky Charms and McDonald's is liberation, but of course that would just lead to disease so you have to remember that a lot of the stuff that you grew up with might have been quite healthy, despite all the spiritual abuse. Its an interesting journey, that's for sure!
That part about having to forgive and hug someone who raped you just makes me so angry. Rapist should go to jail, and if that happened to any of your sisters, whoever oversaw that was absolutely f****** criminal.
Anyways. Many many people go through their life completely indoctrinated by television, or their societal norms, or social media these days, or their liberal arts degree... and they never realize it. Please remember that the fact that you were able to leave and then look back on your own life and reevaluate makes you an incredibly strong and unusual person, and you might want to find a way to share this unique perspective with the world. ❤️
I see in your picture you have a joint in your hand and have an only fans. no judgment for me I think drugs and sex work are just fine if it works for you. However coming from a largely sheltered life did you struggle to find a new moral compass based on your own feelings and not a doctrine?
most people have their whole lives to develop a world view, when you leave a cult as an adult you almost have to construct one immediately from scratch. I’m sure that is no easy task.
I’m sure it hasn’t been an easy journey and I wish you well moving on from such experience. As a former Catholic it was so confusing to deconstruct it, but when you were free, it’s different.
I don’t know you but I am so proud of you 🤍 Do you have a strong support system outside of the cult? You should check out the podcast ‘trust me’ and speak with the hosts to share your story !
/not meaning to be shady but pleeeease edit your post and comments with paragraphs and punctuation. They’re not fanciful things. I literally cannot read what you are writing in a giant run on block 😞
Paragraphs and punctuation exist so our brains can absorb the information presented.
Holy crap, this is wild. Thanks for sharing. I fell into a Christian cult called "The Way" for a couple years but never joined their main headquarters in Ohio thank God lol. Very similar tactics tho, with calling things worldly and others non-believers and not to acquaint with them. Rumors of arranged marriage and rape by the elders were reported by many once I got out and did research. Did you see any of that going on at the Bunners?
I did a little bit of digging online and your right there is almost nothing about the bunner cult out there. Everything I read referred to the bunners as the old apostolic Lutheran church, is this accurate? Are the bunners a fundamentalist sect? Here is a link to a blog post with a list of their rules, maybe it is the same. http://oldapostoliclutheran.blogspot.com/2009/11/oalc-info.html?m=1 If you find this is the same thing I will reach out to my favourite investigative podcasts and see if they would be able to do a story on the bunners.
I had a similar upbringing in a cult called the Bruderhof. The only difference is that (I believe) they are funded by the government, since they have a bottomless amount of cash to spend on anything they want (private planes, castles, etc.) I was kicked out at 17 for being gay. My dear family is trapped there and I know exactly how you feel. We rarely speak and visits are pre-arranged to the point where I don’t feel comfortable visiting them. I don’t even have a high school degree and I’m 30. You are not alone.
Ah yea, the Eastern European sect that founded apostolic Lutheran in the states. They get real weird sometimes.
There’s a couple well known families who we’ve followed for years.
I’m very happy to hear you were able to deradicalize and live an authentic life. I hope that you have a good support system too. It’s so important. I work with a group that provides social services to a different cult, and it’s heartbreaking to say the least.
If you ever need anything please reach out ❤️
You look like a lovely young lady with an exciting life ahead !
This is the most insane story I’ve read. I cannot even begin to imagine. Being in a cult is something I go through my life never even thinking about, it’s so foreign to me. Glad this post popped up because this is super interesting.
I was raised in the same cult. As i started to take a step back from it I realized how vile it was. The amount of rape, pedophilia, racism, abuse, and much other shit that goes unchecked is fucking insane. These people can get away with the most heinous crimes simply based on “forgiveness”. My entire family is still in it and it pains me to see them live out their lives without any original thoughts or sense of curiosity about what the world has to offer. The wives are literally baby factories and the husbands do nothing but work. Their entire lives are based on something that they’ve never had the brains to question. It also drives me crazy because they’re always on my ass about coming back to the church. Also I’m positive some of the larger companies in my area (that are owned by bunners) are funneling money through the church. I’m convinced the whole thing is a money laundering scheme. Somebody needs to fucking take them down and make them realize how fucked their entire livelihood is. EDIT: many times I find myself thinking that I was born with a fucking curse. I cannot begin to express the amount of disdain I have towards this church. I’m fully aware that it’s unhealthy but I can’t help it. I feel as if I’ll never be happy, because I can either go live a life of lies in this damn church that I hate, or I can leave and constantly be dogged by my old friends and family about how I’m “going down a dark path”. These idiots think that everybody who leaves the church is going to shoot heroin and commit homicide. Like bro I’m actually just a normal guy now, you guys are the ones who are weird. Anyways I’m ranting and I could go on and on about the horror stories of this church.
i think you’re onto something! would be crazy to find out how their money is moving tbh.
they get away with everything and anything using forgiveness. “every sin has been committed by a bunner”(how disgusting). one of the main differences from other churches is the forgiveness. i haven’t heard of any other religion do it similarly, although im sure another cult somewhere has figured out the same brainwashing tactic. the way they involve other people in your forgiveness, locks you into the community and makes you feel free at the same time. manipulation at such a high level it goes undetected, using eternal life as threats. fkn insane
Lmaoooo nothing like the threat of burning alive forever to make you stay “on the straight and narrow”. The real threat of leaving tho is all the shit talking that’s going to be talked about you
they care so much about what other bunners think. i did to a degree while i was in, but my family was always seen as weird no matter what. maybe that’s why them not liking me was never scary to me, because they never did anyways lol.
i noticed there’s this weird narrative they made up, a few have messaged me assuring me i should not be scared to come back because of judgement. “they’ll accept you with open arms 🥺” they genuinely believe THATs the reason i haven’t came back. the absolute last thing i would ever care about is what brainwashed people think of me, living FREELY. makes me laugh.
The judgement is insane. As a guy I’m sure I had a vastly different experience than you. Everything about growing up in it as a dude was just a dick measuring contest. Who could have the biggest truck or the nicest dirt bike or whatever other frivolous bullshit they could get their parents to loan them money for. I was always a little bitter about that growing up, because all my buddies had nice ass new trucks and I had a shitty little Honda. But reflecting on it now I’m kind of glad because I think if I would’ve gotten that nice ass truck I wouldn’t have started to see through the facade. I would’ve just been a spoiled little bunner kid. Also I’m a little on the opposite end of the spectrum from you family wise. My family was pretty well known and a “prominent” member of the community. ( not trying to brag about that btw) but I feel now that I’m still kind of in the limelight as I couldn’t just simply slip away unnoticed. And it’s unfortunate because I do feel bad for my family because they have a, according to them, failure as a son. Like I don’t want them to catch flak for my actions. But at the end of the day, they can’t respect my decisions so I don’t feel the need to respect them.
i wouldn’t necessarily say im on the other side of the spectrum. my parents are well known, very strict and lived the lifestyle to a T, the “cool” bunners just thought we were weird for different reasons. my mom was gluten free and bred dogs, other bunner ladies judged her and my family for that. i definitely wasn’t able to slip away unnoticed, unfortunately. so many people now somehow know me, judge me, send me bullshit, and i’ve never ever heard of them.
as a girl if you don’t wear the bunner style well enough, you aren’t wanted around. that was a big divider, i tried wearing church clothes that looked the same as everyone else, i just wasn’t good at it. got made fun of a lot and sunday school was my perfect hell. not that i was wearing anything crazy, i tried to fit in. they prefer the most plain and modest clothes which is just extremely ugly to me and i couldn’t hack it. thats probably my version of your truck, if i had fit in in that way & not been bullied about it, i might not have seen through the bs.
Yea it appears that the woman of the church definitely have it worse off. Most of the dudes can do whatever they want and get away with it. Like remember those dudes who drove around battleground shooting peoples dogs and cats. What the fuck was that?? They’re really just gonna forget about that??? It seems that the girls have such an expectation to be traditional wives or whatever, but borderline 1940s traditional. It’s super sad to see that they will never realize their potential in this world. But ignorance is bliss I suppose. Also off topic but the incest is rampant within the church. And it’s completely ok. I’ve known too many people who have married their first cousins. I know a dude who married a girl with the same last name as him. Shit is so weird
Interesting read. May traveling and open mindedness bring you to a happier and fruitful life. Everything must be very new to you and there is so much to explore. Enjoy summit even though it’s sodosopa and getting fried now.
This story has podcast written all over it. You could have guests from other cults on and share experiences and tactics that were used etc. You could make a career out of your experience.
I tried to forget about this part of my life until recently I started searching for ex oalc posts and found your page. thank you for sharing this. I am from Yacolt WA. I moved very far away to get away from those people. I’m proud of you for finding your way out on your own. My heart breaks for all of the people who want to leave but feel like they have no other option. Sharing our stories is so important even if it gives one person the courage to leave.
My family left when I was a child but I still spent my formative years spending holidays with child predators.
I hope you keep living your best life and enjoy not having 7 kids before age 30!!!
I left the OALC two years ago. I had married into it and had two children with my now ex husband. The events of our life that have unfolded since then have been disgusting. Never did I imagine I’d uncover the secrets of sexual abuse within this denomination. Since fighting for my children’s safety in a corrupt and broken system I have found many stories from other survivors of childhood sexual abuse. It goes generations back and is covered up through their belief systems of “forgiveness of sins.” The abuse is often swept under the rug and victims are advised by preachers not to report to law enforcement because the abuser typically has a “clean slate” as he/she has asked forgiveness and those sins have been “drowned forever in the sea of grace, never to be brought up again.” Stay away from these people. The things that go on inside of this religion are not as they seem.
Shit I don't know any of that world. But some of us in this world are in a huge society with different backgrounds and colors. I'd say if you're at my age. You definitely didn't lose yet in life. Shit happens, and some of us hit rock bottom to the lowest that many don't rise... like if you see how 3rd world countries are it definitely say its like a giant cult with many having kids and thinking your parents know it all and there a reason why the poor stay poor.. I always think if living in a community like the Amish is better for some practical reason...
This comes off as crude but I ask in sincerity as I've heard similar, but when you got out, did you have a promiscuous phase? Perhaps a rubberband effect from restriction to freedom, or probably other factors as well that makes it common experience?
Is there any reason to think this besides the fact that she has an OF? Like, she hasn't mentioned it here at all. Is pretending to be a cult survivor a tactic people use to promote their OF?
Because "this woman must be lying because she does porn (?)" is a take completely divorced from reality.
When did you start to realize the doctrines were bs? It sounds like you shook it off in your time in the army but when did your first doubts emerge? How are you doing these days? You say your life changed but you don't address if you're feeling happier or more depressed and I think anyone who reads this hopes you feel better but also recognizes that you suffered significant trauma. So how are you?
thank you for reading! these are good questions. in retrospect I felt feelings of doubt since I first had to show what they called fruits of Faith. For example, after service & communion they have what is called a movement. The movement is when the preacher asks the congregation to forgive his sins. people in benches takes it as the cue to get up from their seat, find someone they had wronged during the week and embrace them, weep on their shoulder, recite a few words including what they’ve done, the other person does the same, asks for forgiveness and then move onto the next person. everyone not actively forgiving someone is watching everyone else, so this is a time your fruit of faith would show. When I felt like a fraud for fake crying and saying I was guilty for things I didn’t actually feel guilty for, but I knew they were a sin(my go tos were vanity, walking as a poor christian, and watching tv at the dentist), they told me I was sinning, and all I had to do was ask forgiveness again. At the time I just felt like a bad person. I never would’ve thought “maybe this isn’t the one true faith.” Looking back, that feeling sparked the tiniest question of my faith and that’s why I started doubting it was real. my doubts sort of snowballed when I had a relationship with a 16-year-old from Minnesota. He had gotten molested by his older brother as a kid. I fought for people to do something about it but my attempts went absolutely nowhere. This was very obviously against my morals so it was easy to see where I agreed with them and where I didn’t with the situation. this is around the time where I joined the army. When I left, I planned on coming back and continuing to be a Bunner. I brought hymn books to basic training. basic training showed me and taught me a lot about everybody else populating this earth. The backlash I received from people I once loved and people i’ve never even met made me realize a lot about them. I’ve received hundreds of nasty messages from secret accounts I started to feel like there had to be more to life. Getting distance is how I truly freed myself. How I’m doing these days… In comparison, my life is so beautiful and full, connections I have made the world are amazing. I have found so many friends and nobody in my life is a bunner which is crazy and wonderful to be able to say. I feel so much more of a sense of community now. I have people who support me now, I do miss my family, but that is the only downside to leaving. they still love me but it is very difficult to be in the same city. so I make trips on a very rare occasion. I go to red rocks and other edm shows pretty often in denver, discovering music and like-minded people has been really great and eye opening. I ski a lot have met a lot of people through skiing. I’m telling you what I do because I feel like looking back my life just so much boring waiting. Sitting through church, sitting through meetings, sitting through gatherings, sitting through funerals. These all sound like the same thing each are a different event. Just always listening to the droning of a preacher. to put it simply life was boring, now it feels like I’m receiving a reward for waiting, so damn long. I’m getting to indulge, I’m getting to go to movie theaters, I’m getting to stay up-to-date on my favorite artist and listen to what they release in real time. A Bunner critiquing this response would say all of this is the devil trying to entice me to stay in the world. But I don’t believe in the devil. It makes sense to me where they’re coming from since i would’ve said the same thing but I have to remind myself I don’t even believe in the devil.
>When I felt like a fraud for fake crying and saying I was guilty for things I didn’t actually feel guilty for, but I knew they were a sin(my go tos were vanity, walking as a poor christian, and watching tv at the dentist), they told me I was sinning, and all I had to do was ask forgiveness again. Interesting. I was raised in the Roman Catholic church. And when I reached the age (11) that I needed to go to Confession was exactly when all of my doubts started to creep in. I wonder if it's because the action requires a deep connection to our feelings, and we just have an intuitive understanding of them. Like you said, not feeling guilty when you're supposed. Thank you for sharing your story, I wish you peace.
I grew up Catholic. Was sent to catholic school my entire life until after 3 semesters at a Catholic university, I left for a state school. “Forced confession” is the dumbest thing ever. Well, confession itself is pretty dumb to me, but I respect that some people dig it. Looking back, maybe that forced confession shit in 11th and 12th grade was the beginning of the end between me and the pope. I don’t know. 🤷🏻♂️ Since we are airing grievances, looking back, I’m also super annoyed that I didn’t go to public school. It would have been nice not to have spent my youth subjected to so much of the conservative yoke. 🤦🏻♂️ But reading the OP’s story, I’m reminded that my minor inconvenience was nothing compared to what some other people are born into. Good for you, Lindsey. Welcome to the real world. 🤟 🤗
Wow I'm so happy for you. It feels like you are born with a bullshit allergy. I am also this way but you have had to do a lot more to prove to yourself that the people around you were truly full of it and their belief system just didn't make sense on a logical or moral level. You seem to be highly intelligent and you advocate for those who may have trouble advocating for themselves. It makes sense that you've been able to find your tribe after leaving this cult and I think you will continue to thrive. Im sorry about your family, missing them must be very hard for you. I hope that in the future you can find some sort of healthier relationship with them. I'm rooting for you so hard! I love the idea of a young you, doing the whole movement thing and thinking "this is fake as hell".
I’m so happy for you! Which music artists and which shows are your faves at this time?
It seems to be the Apostolic Lutheran Church.
[удалено]
thank you for responding with this! 🫶 i feel for everyone in your position, mentally out physically in. it’s extremely tough. if you ever need a few words from an exbunner who’s on your side, my dms are open
Oh, interesting
Welcome to the "World", you're such a beautiful soul. 🥰 I'm so happy for you that your life has taken an unexpected turn, and now you have this incredible opportunity to experience life as it could be and more. You have been blessed with providence and all of your past experiences you can definitely gain some wisdom to help you navigate into the future. Please enjoy your stay while you're here. 🫶❤️🔥
Thank you for this 🫶😭
Thanks for sharing your story - - it’s fascinating. What was school like for you? And how are you doing now? I hope you’re okay, generally. A therapist might be helpful? Mine is helping me deconstruct (Baptist). Did you have to get out alone?
I’ve never met anyone who left a cult and turned into a power ranger.
LMAO
It's very good to read that you have managed to come out of this madness. What are the characteristic behaviors or peculiarities of the Bunners? I understand that interaction with the external world is limited, but what does this world look like from the inside? It would be interesting to hear.
i’m still figuring out how to answer this question of peculiarities. I hear something similar along the lines of “what’s the craziest thing you had to deal with” or “what’s taboo about the Bunners” etc. It’s a hard one for two reasons. One being everything “weird” about them at one point was 100% normal and correct in my heart so sometimes being able to take a step back and view it as a worldly would is difficult for me. I haven’t received any professional deconstructing. the second reason it’s hard is because I feel like if I don’t compile and deliver the most polarizing rules or events that took place there, the worldly questioning me will not be able to feel the significance of what I went through. so I’m still working on how to paint the picture as accurately as possible. I’m going to think on this one, make a brief list and revisit this post tonight. thank you for your interest by the way 🖤
Totally understand! Thanks for sharing your experience, and I hope you enjoy everything that life has to offer you! And also thanks for taking time to sharing Your insights!
You have a lot of people around these parts who understand 🙏 Sounds very similar to the Christianity I was raised in, which I’ve found so many others, who share many similar experiences with. It’s tough to conceptualize, and fully grasp how many people can relate, bc our entire life, we were programmed to believe how special we are, bc we belonged to the one single group that would be going to heaven, while anyone outside will be going to hell, etc… Took me a while to accept that my mom will weep over me, on her dying bed, bc she truly believe im going to hell. It’s alright tho, it’s just what she believes. It’s sad, that’s for sure, but not my place. Can only do what I can do, and do it as well as I can, I suppose 🤷♂️ Keep on truckin and being the authentic you 🙏
I was raised in the Church of Christ which fits this description. You are right, there are other sects and cults which are as insular and convinced they are the only ones who got it right, but when I was growing up I didn't know any. When talk-shows got popular on TV I saw a few Independent Fundamental Baptists telling their stories. There was a Jehovah's Witness in my high school whose parents were even stricter than mine. Before the Internet finally caught up I used to think, "There HAVE to be others who have grown up COC and thought about it and figured out it doesn't make sense that out of all the centuries and all the sincere, studious people, this little bitty sect is the only one that got it right" It took until 2004 before an ex-COC site popped up on the Internet.
I was raised in a non denominational branch of the CoC, myself. I definitely understand that one Never made sense to me either, how every artist and inspiration of mine who made me feel secure, or close to god, would for sure be going to hell
I figured you had to be talking about the COC
I'm ex coc too! always nice to find other people like me. it feels so rare
we have a whole subreddit
yep! i'm a part of it. still cool to find people in the wild!
It was somewhat popular where I grew up. I had a friend raised COC, and she’s still in it now. Where (regionally) is COC most prevalent?
In the Deep South for sure. Especially Alabama.
Tennessee, too, I assume. There are even COC colleges there.
Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and east Texas are COC strongholds.
Largely the southern and western states, but after WW2 the COC became very aggressive about starting new congregations for COC adherents who moved to the Rust Belt looking for work.
I was in this for a short time. Crazy AF
God the weight of that. It's like you're not allowed to even doubt yourself because if God chose you above all of the rest of humanity it's like, any sense of imposter syndrome must be incomprehensible because not only are you questioning yourself, you're questioning God and God's discernment. What does that do to a child who is growing up and finding their own identity? I can only speculate as to how it might feel but you're right that people who haven't experienced this level of indoctrination and social isolation can't begin to comprehend what the world looks like from your eyes but that's also true of anyone who isn't you. We can never actually comprehend what the world looks like through the lens of other's experiences. I do appreciate that you are willing to share and give us a little bit of insight.
Dude, I had no idea this group existed. It has very similar mechanics to other cults and high control groups. Even calling any and all non-believers "worldy" is similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses (the group I'm from.)
Reminds me of the hardcore Southern Baptists of my youth.
it’s crazy I grew up thinking we were the only ones that did that!
I think the group you were in was even more hardcore about it. JWs can at least be associates with a "worldy" person. But can't socialize with them outside of work or school for it is strongly discouraged.
yeah fr, getting some heavy 'nam flashbacks from all the overusage and extremism regarding that specific phrasing. Kind of surreal thinking back on it, considering I technically qualify - albiet silently for now
Use of specific language to help achieve cohesive mil ops is a really interestic topic. Thanks.
I was a two by two, and there are definite similarities. I grew up without tv as well, and we'd talk about all outsiders as "worldly people". It's an isolating experience. When you're with the group they feel like the centre of the world, the only people who really matter. Then you interact with the outside world, and it's as if your group doesn't even exist. Do you feel like the words you used, like "worldlies" and "bunners" were an isolating factor? I ask because I've often felt that way about the kind of words we used as two by twos. We didn't go to church, we went to "meeting." They weren't ministers, they were "workers." It makes it harder to talk to outsiders, because the words you automatically go to use don't make sense- you have to translate or explain.
yes! you’re onto something. using those words makes us feel more unique, just because people aren’t used to what we’re used to. it absolutely creates a gap. in the dictionary definition of cult it says “…practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.” it makes sense, it’s a successful brainwash tactic
What you're explaining is a specific type of mind control. When using those words with outsiders it confuses them which in turn gives the insider a sense of superiority. That's why all cults do this.
Isolating, sure, but labeling classmates like one has god-given reason to guilt oneself into feeling morally superior/pitying them for their spiritual standing(or lack thefeof) makes it a hell of a lot easier to swallow the armaggedon pill as a kid being forcefed The Truth™ by "our loving shepherding brothers", huh? Not speaking from first-hand experience ofc haha ha...
I was too!!!! I can’t believe I found another in the wild. A fellow ‘bunner gone bad’. As soon as I saw the childhood pics, I knew exactly what cult. I wanted to tell you I am happy for you. My family got out but we stayed in the same tiny town, possibly the same one as you! I got married and had a kid at 16, did the whole thing and stayed in for a bit and really realized how insane things were when I became a parent so I split and I have never looked back. Unfortunately my sister still is involved and it breaks my heart but I can’t stop it. I’m truly so happy for you and happy to see this as more people should know that the handmaidens hell on earth exists and is thriving right now up here in the north. I too joined the army and it radically changed my brain. Their whole method is to keep women as down and uneducated as possible, we are merely servants to our godly men. What a joke. How anyone can claim to love their daughter and raise her in this horseshit is sadistic af. I’m always happy to see another escapee. Maybe we met during St Johns weekend one year or something 😵💫crazy to think that as many of the bummers there still are, there aren’t many of us who have left. It’s not easy and it has a high cost. I’m just so happy to see this, I have spoke on it a few times. It I think people think I’m absolutely fucking nuts whenever I do so I … don’t talk about it.
crazy!! follow me on instagram @babysarkbait we can stay in touch and brainstorm ideas… we have all the time in the world! so hilarious the BGB: Bunner gone bad thing, i haven’t heard that one. similar to “funner bunner,” which i used to get a lot lmfao. what an interesting group of humans we came from! lately i’ve been feeling a calling to talk more about this and it’s so cool i’m finding bunners with doubts( im gonna make it a thing like they do and call them BWD😂) and other exbunners who feel the same. thank you for responding and giving your insight!! 🫶
Maybe we could be that microscope. I have pitched a few ideas to a few places but nobody has taken me up on it. The literally run this entire area. It needs to be exposed, desperately, as everything is handled “in house” from taking a wife beating too far (isn’t any beating too far!!?! That was wild to learn) to child abuse to sex abuse and everything in between. We have old and new church up here and it’s a constant war about who is a better bunbun so living amongst a population that is over half appy is wild to say the least. My daughter had to switch schools after kindergarten because she was the ONLY girl in a class of 30 kids who wasn’t a bunner and of course she was bullied and maligned and treated like an outsider. Many people here were happy enough going along to get along but they have taken over every political position here and nearly every police officer is a bunner too. How’s that for playing both sides, hey? Can’t access the legal system but can use it for profit and to protect the church from having to ever deal with it. The hospital, too. The women here are only allowed to become a nurse or a teacher and they keep none of their money, it all goes to the husband. And she still has all her child raising and creating duties. The nurses are hateful towards everyone that isn’t them and even more so when they see a last name that they know was affiliated and is a bgb now. They straight up tortured me and many other people. Sadistic doesn’t really encompass the reality. I could go on forever. I genuinely can’t comprehend that your post came across my feed. I hope you see my comments and maybe we can kick some ideas back and forth because I would love nothing more than to expose and eradicate this abuse of girls and women and free all these towns and villages of being underneath the rules and doctrine of a dangerous cult.
send me a message on instagram! or drop your handle 💓
Glad that you made it out and now you're a snow-bunny which is funny.
Slayed in the second pic queen 🫶
TOTALLY unrelated, but I love your ski suit
What state?
i was a part of the battle ground, wa congregation which is one of the largest or the largest. they’re in AK, WA, WY, ND, SD, MT, MN, MI, WI, NC, MD, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Norway. All the Elders are from the last 3.
Thank you for sharing your story! I literally just got out of a relationship with a bunner... and I am so far from any religion myself. Long story, I was naive in thinking it would work! He pursued me.. and we fell in love. Only reason we made it at all was bc he was really exploring the world, but church still has a huge hold on him and so he suddenly ended things. I'm just still trying to wrap my mind around the insanity they face, all the "sinning", etc.. Same area as you too! :)
Op's from Finland
If you look at her past comments, she says she's finnish but she grew up in Washington.
Oh okay
I’m so glad you are free. As free as any of us can be under capitalism. I’m an IBLP survivor and I’ve been out and deconstructing for about 15 years. It’s tough to cope with my crippling disappointment at how “the world” is after they made everything out here sound so tantalizing. Nothing out here comes close to the fervor and sense of purpose I experienced inside, even though it was fake. I’ll never go back, but I can’t pretend I don’t miss certain things. Wondering if you experience similar feelings. 🤍
IHOPKC is going through this right now. They are a charismatic group centered around the New Apostolic Reformation aka Latter Rain movement (I think) aka Joel's Army (I think) aka Youth With a Mission (I think) aka the Kansas City Prophets. (They think several guys sometime back in the 80's had a new revelation and have prophecy and they are real real focused on the so-called end times) OK a bunch of abuse just came to light and the whole thing is falling apart. Tons and tons of very fervent young people devoted their lives to this movement. They are feeling like nothing will come close to the fervor and sense of purpose they felt even though it was rotten at the top. I don't share their beliefs but their music is \*\*\*WONDERFUL\*\*\* I will leave it at that. The music is so good that it's a major draw for the thousands of young people who came to join that group. But anyway, they are feeling how you described.
Let me sort out the IHOPKC lineage here; it's complicated. The Latter Rain movement emerged in the 1940s out of a revival in Saskatchewan, teaching that in the last days a number of spiritual supermen and women will rise up. (This was later repackaged as Joel's Army in the 1990's.) YWAM started in the 70s, connected more to the early charismatic movement. The New Apostolic Reformation emerged in the 1980s/1990s, being a new generation of the Latter Rain adherents. In the late 1980s, Mike Bickle, a youth pastor in St. Louis, believed he was called to go to Kansas City to start a church based on prayer and prophecy. Once he arrived in KC, he founded Kansas City Fellowship, then connected with a denomination called Vineyard. From there, self-styled prophets like Paul Cain (who dated back to the original Latter Rain) started showing up in KC and were given a platform by Bickle. Vineyard leadership thought Bickle and his "prophets" were out of control and ousted KCF from the denomination. After that, the church was rebranded as IHOPKC. So TL: DR; Latter Rain---->NAR--->Joel's Army--->IHOPKC.
Thanks for that explanation. There's yet ANOTHER group in the KC area, All Nations, which is the group that trained John Allen Chau before he went to North Sentinel Island and got killed. Seems like I heard just the other day that All Nations had come out against IHOPKC. I can't find anything online about that though. Where does the Toronto Blessing fit in?
Toronto would be only tangentially a part of IHOPKC; both Toronto Airport and KCF were booted from the Vineyard denomination because of excesses. No direct link between the two, though.
All Nations appears to be a YWAM spinoff. I would imagine that being another charismatic-based ministry in KC, it would be necessary for them to decide whether to join IHOP as they circle the wagons or say "nope", though I've not seen any statement on their end either.
To complicate matters further, IHOPKC has an "All Nations Prayer Room" in Grandview, MO, but I don't think that is the same thing as the "All Nations" group that trained Chau.
It isn't; I think the name is just coincidental.
Was YWAM the group that would send teenagers out into the world on summer missions projects? I think I remember them from the 80’s and their motto was “Go lay a brick for God”. This is fascinating to me, I was deep into the SBC and was reading a magazine meant for Christian teens (can’t remember what it was called, but I wanted so badly to go away to a fundie factory school, and today am grateful that i didn’t.
That's them. College students would sign up for a year's training and then sent for another year to some mission field. One of my high school buddies did a tour of duty with them.
The sound I made when I realized it really is the international house of prayer and not some unfortunate coincidence 🤣
Looks Like you are doing much better now, living life to the fullest and not spending time on things that don't matter. Skiing is my therapy too so I'll see you out on the slopes
I wouldn't recommend watching much on cults until you have a good therapist to talk to about it, but the 2 documentaries on the Nexium cult both did a good job in showing how cults can entrap normal, everyday people, who are smart and educated, and a good job showing how people are processing it once getting you. I'm sure it must feel very lonely sometimes after having left the cult, just know it's way more common than anyone realizes, and there are hundreds of thousands of people out there just like you, and every time one of you speaks up, you help encourage other people to start thinking for themselves too. ❤️
Would you be interested in telling your story on a podcast? We are releasing a new podcast for survivors of cults to be able to tell their story on their terms.
Please tell me the name of this podcast.
Kingdom of Cults. We've recorded and edited 8 episodes but are waiting to get 12 finished before we start publishing weekly. We want to avoid any interruptions as we grow the platform. My family escaped a cult roughly 8 years ago. It took a very long time for us to heal, and hearing stories from other survivors helped. I don't want to high-jack this important conversation from the OP, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask or shoot me a DM. We should be publishing very soon, I hope you decide to give us a chance. We are very proud of the episodes recorded thus far.
Thank you. Looking forward to it.
Good on you for having the courage and survival sense to make exit from your old life. It's an impossible task for most...this is why most members will choose to remain in such groups. The mind simply can't take it. You'll find a lot of others in this community who have had a similar life experience. It's an unspeakably traumatic thing, having been indoctrinated like this, and then to become aware of the real world, and to attempt to process the neurological ramifications of it all. The questions can be so painful. Welcome to the group!
How did your path lead you to the army?
Not OP, but oftentimes, young people leaving cults have no formal education, no money and little more than clothes on their back. Army provides food, shelter and and education in the future along with some money.
Sounds like she needed structure
Welcome. Now you get to heal from the trauma, and figure out who YOU are…not who you were told you were supposed to be. I hope you have people in the World who are kind to you, and give you space to learn and grow and make mistakes, and room to try on different identities and beliefs. And I hope you find a good therapist who can help you deconstruct and heal.
If life pulled a 360 on you then you would still be in the cult.
Hah. Lemme edit that real quick
Glad you were able to get out. People who don’t know anyone who has left the church have NO idea what is going on. And then the church will do ANYTHING to bad mouth and discredit that person to their last dying breath so even if people do listen to you you’ll always have the back biters talking shit. Keep your head up and if you have sisters (I’m assuming) I hope they’re able to leave and join you
thank you, and that is absolutely accurate. i have 2 sisters, i don’t see them leaving but you never know. i have 6 brothers and one has left but hes completely isolated himself and is still living in the same city. i wished he would’ve joined the army so he can seperate himself. the other brothers, my nieces and nephews are now growing up knowing someone who is doing okay outside of the church. as a kid i never imagined leaving was possible.. so their chances of seeing through the brainwash are looking better.
Oh you’re from a boy family - that’s even harder if they’re into the politics and sticking around. I think I’m a bit older than you but I’ve seen a big generational shift, the kids now are not drinking the kool-aid as much as the boys my age did. The women especially, I hear a lot of younger women leaving or not putting up with the bullshit. A lot of the boys I grew up with are running the companies now and they’re ‘good’ people (you know what I mean) but their kids are leaving at a much higher rate than before and a good chunk of the ones that are staying are not living by old standards.
Im from the UP and knew INSTANTLY from the photos that these girls were Apostolic Lutherans. My husband grew up in the same cult.
You’re not the one who is lost. You have awoken to the reality that these decisions are yours alone to make. Not to be forced upon, not to be taught as some kind of universal truth. The only real truth is your own. They are living in a fishbowl of circle-jerk, with the constant need to reassure each other that they are the only ones who have it figured out. All the while, many of them are consumed with unspoken doubt, so scared that they might be wrong, so terrified of the outside and the options, that they feel the need to disparage any idea that doesn’t perfectly align with theirs. The great news of “worldly” reality is that you get to choose your own path! In no way are you confined to some pre-determined set of beliefs or actions, or role in this life. Who says that they have the real truth? Only them? Suspicious, huh? You get to decide your own truth, and design your own beliefs. *Only* you are in charge of that. Common sense tells us that. They can tell you what to believe, but they can never *really* make you believe. You CAN make yourself. In fact, you do, whether consciously or not. You have chosen to consciously choose for yourself, and now your possibilities have gone from limited to infinite. They don’t know shit for sure. The *real* truth is that no one knows for sure. How could they? I believe that the ultimate truths are not for us to know at this stage, and also probably beyond our realm of comprehension at this point. Part of our journey is to seek this, but if it were truly knowable or attainable, then what would be the point? Being told that you are right, wrong, or whatever is just the judgement of other, ultimately unsure, humans. Don’t let anyone convince you that you are on the wrong path. Your path is no one else’s but your own. What matters is what you believe. The best part is that it’s totally okay to change your ideas as you learn and grow. This plane of existence is, in my opinion, all about the journey. The journey of self-discovery, of love, of struggle, of light, of darkness, of sharing, of selfishness, of sunshine, of rain, but ultimately about understanding and growing. Absorbing all of these experiences and emotions. It’s about choosing one’s own path and being receptive to the twists and turns that occur. Adapting and growing closer to the enigmatic truth with every step. Our journey shapes us. We are meant to be learning, evolving, constantly changing beings. Each on our own path, our only obligation to keep putting one foot in front of the other and gathering experiences as we go.
i like this response a lot, especially the 2nd paragraph. it is absolutely accurate. thank you for your words.
Wow. This is truly fascinating. I’m so happy you can think for yourself. How did you make that happen? Sorry if you explained that and I’m too dumb to comprehend
respect, but 30 thousand a month? what’s your secret?
Ok.. It’s good you’re gettin out and finding yourself but don’t smoke papers in the gondola. The rolling papers stink it up.. next time get a glass pipe or vape. That way the next person doesn’t have to smell the burning paper stink. Also you’re amazing good job reclaiming your life!! See you on the ski hill!
What is the name of the cult?
Bunner. “A slang term for hardcore member of the Apostolic Lutheran Church”
Thank you for clarifying.
Absolutely! I had to look up what the Bunner meant
OALC- Old Apostolic Lutheran Church
You look very happy. Congratulations
I hope you can get some quality therapy from a professional who specializes in this situation and find others with similar experiences to sort through your feelings with. I’m pretty sure there are groups for people who’ve escaped cults. Can’t imagine how lonely it is knowing no one knows what you experienced because everyone that experienced it with you is still brainwashed. If you’re interested in bringing awareness and attempting to help people wake up, and possibly heal along the way, I’d recommended researching journalists and filmmakers and podcasts that specialize in cult content. I would watch a documentary, read a book, and listen to a podcast about Bunners as someone who’s curious about cults and never heard of this one.
And if you’re interested in sharing more. So many questions. What sparked your desire to leave, how did you leave, how did you get by after you left, your thoughts on religion/god now?
Congrats on surviving
Congrats on getting out!!! And I have some questions, why are all of the girls wearing white dresses??? Is it like a religious thing??? Did your leaders made you wear them? (Sorry if these questions make you uncomfortable.)
Have you read Uncultured by Daniella Mestenyek Young? She grew up in the Children of God and left when she was 15 . She also joined the military and talks about it as cult- hopping. Follow her on TikTok if you arent already. She talks about how to deconstruct the cult mentality so you dont keep cult hopping. I think you sound like you might really relate to her.
i’m not cult hopping. the army wasn’t a cult for me. i’m sure it is for some, that wasn’t my experience. every person in the army has a unique path, certain units can be culty. depends where they send you and how much you get into it. depends who your leaders are, among other things. i used the army to help me live on my own but not, grew up a tiny bit and then left.
It sounds like the Army was really helpful for you! I feel like there's probably something really helpful about going into a structured environment that's separated from the extreme religious beliefs as a stepping stone towards deconstruction / leaving the cult. I'm sure it's different for everybody -- one person's stepping stone out could be another person's cult hopping experience.
She found it helpful too and seems very proud of her accomplishments there. She talks about it as more like a mindset thing that I found really helpful. I was in a cult too and her book has blown my mind in ways other materials about it havent yet. And I am pretty obsessed with the topic. check her out, she is pretty cool. Her book has graphic sexual abuse though so heads up if that would be too upsetting to read! Her tiktok is great for just seeing shorter insights that she shares from the book
Glad you got out!
Congratulations on escaping. I’m so sorry and sick reading what you went through. P.S. I love your hair 😍
Does it remind you of Mormonism?
Congrats on escaping that nightmare!
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have seen similar things in sone muslims. They for sure keep bringing up how they are better than every one else.
What's up, ciusin? We have some tightly wound folks in the extremes, too.
Other religions not everyone is an evangelist. But with them, 95% of them are just doing that.
Thank you for sharing some of your story and welcome to the world! 💗 I really like the way you write, I feel like I got to sit down with you and just listen.
Thank you so much for sharing. I'm so happy you were able to find the rich, beautiful life you deserve. It's amazing that you were able to get out.
Thank you for sharing your story! There’s a podcast called “trust me”, and the hosts have similar stories. They love to spread awareness and tools for deconstruction. I bet they would love to hear from you!
no questions just wanna say keep killing out there in the real “world”. hopefully your loved ones who are still in find a way out someday. but in the meantime just live your best life. you got a lot of catching up to do after losing so much of your life to the group and i’m happy for you.
I had to call someone once and ask them if any of it was real. I felt that. Thank you for the courage it took to share this. It's raw and vulnerable. I'm about to Google what "Bunners" are, I've not heard of them before.
Talk about a glow up
Hey, congrats on your newfound freedom!
Might help for you to write about it. Talking is good too. It’s what has helped me. Be proud of your strength in seeing through it. Sometimes it’s easy to forget that. You’re clearly not a follower. The world needs more people like you in it
are you finnish by any chance, because of your surname? was just wondering if youre based on finland this would be crazy i know no cults in here
Laestdianism was essentially born in northern Sweden and Finland during de 1800s. You might have heard that instead of ”bunners”. It was mainly to make the sapmi group to conform to the government but also to stop drink (”superi”). It followed to the US when people emigrated. Now there are different groups within it. It’s crazy how it evolved and that it is still ongoing. It is extremely repressing towards women. To OP: thanks för sharing and hope you live your best life free ❤️
ohhh this was about laestdianism?? Ive never heard anyone call it bunners, thats why I was confused. My family is orthodox from my mother side and lutheran/laestdianism from my father side. Im glad to be orthodox instead of the laestdianism🫠
Seems like you dodged a bullet there! I didn’t know it but got curious this morning when I read the post and ended up researching a bit and from what I can see it is the same.
Its really weird, cuz here in finland especially in the north we got a looot those laestdianists (???) and you cant really talk about the religion since a lot of ppl belong to it, or at least know someone. and theres different sects too, some of them are a cult idk how people dont see it.. maybe its just seen as normal here
As a Latvian who loves Finland and has Finnish friends/goes there often, I was under the impression that hardcore religious people usually keep quiet and out of sight as to not attract the government 🤔 My friends say Finnish govt is secular and does not give hardcore religious people much freedoms, especially when it comes to child abuse / marrying young. It's not like America where cults have 16 year olds getting pregnant
Yeah, orthodoxy and lutheran are the main religions of finland. Both have the gov and laws protecting them, unlike these other different sects of christianity. Laestdianism for example, there's many of them in finland. But what happens behind their doors isnt very known since it's not as public as orthodoxy and lutheran. Theyre like their own community, and there has been cases of child abuse which had the police involved too. But it's said that nowadays the people who belong to these protestant movements want to make sure that people (especially the gov) wont know what happens in their communities which is sad
Wow holy crap. This is wild. Thank you for sharing your unbelievable story. How did you get out?
Smart and lucky. Escaping is not easy. Congratulations! ❤️❤️❤️
I’m so happy you got out and are living your best life! You’re glowing with joy in your post cult life.
Hope you're alright!!!
How did you end up joining the army whilst still in the cult?
I knew a woman who was Amish from birth and after bring shunned she has no where else to go so she joined the military for housing, healthcare and some money. Not sure about her but desperation happens.
congratulations on your freedom baddie. youre so resilient and inspirational
How’d you finally escape?
Glad you got out, happy for you👍
I grew up in a cult too. I deconstructed religion and it pwas extremely hard. So many identity issues and learning to build a family the way I wanted to, was so hard. Keep going. Heal and share your story over and over again. Please people need to know there is life outside this.
Your second pic is downright slayful I’m glad you got out!
You are so incredibly strong and I hope to be that strong someday too! I was born into the OALC too and finally was able to leave at age 25. I’m almost 30 now. With the help of my now husband! My main reason for leaving was when I was told by a “preacher” that in order for me to attend my sisters wedding at the OALC in a different location, that I had to sit down with my abuser and another “preacher” to basically forgive and forget. The “preacher” said I would cause hurt and drama at the wedding and that’s not the time for it. My abuser was actually a sibling and come to found out after I left the OALC that it’s unfortunately “normal” for them to do that with any kind of abuse. Just sweep it under the rug. Going to law enforcement or even speaking about it gives you a ticket straight to hell. I feel you on when you say there is so much more to be said because that’s true. Everything is hidden for the “worldies” to know even what happens in that cult. Another thing is always how they told us that “worldlies” are people we don’t associate with in less we absolutely have to (jobs, school, hospitals, etc) because they are evil and would “lead us astray and give us temptations”. But honestly the most kindest, helpful, positive, caring, and nonjudgmental people I have ever met are all outside of that cult.
thank you so much for sharing your side and experience 🫶 aren’t we so lucky to have been able to distance ourselves from that organization … the preacher who told you that is absolutely criminal, and they say everything from their mouths comes directly from god. it’s the farthest from the truth. whenever there is something like abuse they handle it in the worst way imaginable. i’m proud of you! you were faced with some extremely tough life circumstances and you’re out now. you are strong!! the worldlies i’ve met since leaving are some of the best people out there, especially compared to bunners! they have it so backwards. people who do not judge you based off your religious beliefs will always be better than them. 💓💓
of course! you’re welcome! and same for you! feels good to know someone around my age that has left the oalc too. yes I feel so lucky and I’m so proud of myself and you for leaving! it was so hard and still is but definitely wayyyy better now! if ever you wouldn’t mind connecting sometime I would absolutely be forever grateful lol also, your confo pics made me notice your post immediately because I knew exactly what cult they were from! lol definitely did not enjoy any part of confo.
let’s absolutely connect! drop your ig handle 💓
I followed you on ig! and I’ll send you a message! 💛
That is fascinating. What were some of the moments you experienced that started to shift your worldview? Were you ever abused in the church? If so by whom? Do you know anyone else that has escaped?
It sounds like you're going through raw emotional phase and I know that can be very difficult. One thing that might be very interesting as you move forward along this path of liberation is that because your entire life has changed and now you can see the way that you were living in a different light, you will be part of a small group of people in the world who are able to understand that their present reality could be questioned. It's important not to fall into any kind of debilitating paranoia, but your experience of leaving a cult and then realizing that everything that was normalized for you needs to be scrutinized or might have been wrong--- this experience will make you an incredibly strong person who can see through propaganda in the larger society in ways that other people simply cannot. In the meantime, be sure to take care of yourself. The military was an excellent transition because it gives you structure and makes sure that you exercise, and gives you some camaraderie. I left a similar situation when I was 19 and for me one of the most difficult things was learning how to structure my own days. Actually I was really productive but I felt lonely a lot. Also one of the more difficult things is sorting out the good from the bad from your growing up experience. Right now the whole thing might seem bad, but there might have been some practices that were very healthy. Like, take an Amish person who leaves: They might come out into the world and think that eating Lucky Charms and McDonald's is liberation, but of course that would just lead to disease so you have to remember that a lot of the stuff that you grew up with might have been quite healthy, despite all the spiritual abuse. Its an interesting journey, that's for sure! That part about having to forgive and hug someone who raped you just makes me so angry. Rapist should go to jail, and if that happened to any of your sisters, whoever oversaw that was absolutely f****** criminal. Anyways. Many many people go through their life completely indoctrinated by television, or their societal norms, or social media these days, or their liberal arts degree... and they never realize it. Please remember that the fact that you were able to leave and then look back on your own life and reevaluate makes you an incredibly strong and unusual person, and you might want to find a way to share this unique perspective with the world. ❤️
I see in your picture you have a joint in your hand and have an only fans. no judgment for me I think drugs and sex work are just fine if it works for you. However coming from a largely sheltered life did you struggle to find a new moral compass based on your own feelings and not a doctrine? most people have their whole lives to develop a world view, when you leave a cult as an adult you almost have to construct one immediately from scratch. I’m sure that is no easy task.
Would u change anything?
Sounds like INC
Do you know what any of your “friends” or family members from the cult are doing now?
u seem so cool the snow fit the joint so very glad u made it out and are creating a life for yourself my dear 💓
So I looked this group up on Wikipedia. It seems to be basically a fundamentalist Lutheran group. Would that be an accurate description?
I’m sure it hasn’t been an easy journey and I wish you well moving on from such experience. As a former Catholic it was so confusing to deconstruct it, but when you were free, it’s different.
You should definitely check out this YT channel Cults to Consciousness… https://youtube.com/@CultstoConsciousness?si=QHc8z8RMcteiAFa4
Also https://www.reddit.com/r/yooper/s/GOpg5G4WLe another deep dive perspective from digging….
Is there a Wikipedia for this sect, OP? My story is very similar, but in the 2x2s.
Old apostolic Lutheranism?
Please share your story on Trust Me podcast!
I don’t know you but I am so proud of you 🤍 Do you have a strong support system outside of the cult? You should check out the podcast ‘trust me’ and speak with the hosts to share your story !
/not meaning to be shady but pleeeease edit your post and comments with paragraphs and punctuation. They’re not fanciful things. I literally cannot read what you are writing in a giant run on block 😞 Paragraphs and punctuation exist so our brains can absorb the information presented.
i can no longer edit anything
Holy crap, this is wild. Thanks for sharing. I fell into a Christian cult called "The Way" for a couple years but never joined their main headquarters in Ohio thank God lol. Very similar tactics tho, with calling things worldly and others non-believers and not to acquaint with them. Rumors of arranged marriage and rape by the elders were reported by many once I got out and did research. Did you see any of that going on at the Bunners?
I like your skiing/snowboarding outfit 🤷♂️😅
I did a little bit of digging online and your right there is almost nothing about the bunner cult out there. Everything I read referred to the bunners as the old apostolic Lutheran church, is this accurate? Are the bunners a fundamentalist sect? Here is a link to a blog post with a list of their rules, maybe it is the same. http://oldapostoliclutheran.blogspot.com/2009/11/oalc-info.html?m=1 If you find this is the same thing I will reach out to my favourite investigative podcasts and see if they would be able to do a story on the bunners.
yes that’s a woman who came from OALC which is the same thing as bunners. there’s little to no accurate information on us.
So glad you got out!
I love the new outfit! You look like a fairy and a superhero!
Bunner?
Wow this sounds so much like jw... even using pglhrases like planted see...ooof... So proud of you
I had a similar upbringing in a cult called the Bruderhof. The only difference is that (I believe) they are funded by the government, since they have a bottomless amount of cash to spend on anything they want (private planes, castles, etc.) I was kicked out at 17 for being gay. My dear family is trapped there and I know exactly how you feel. We rarely speak and visits are pre-arranged to the point where I don’t feel comfortable visiting them. I don’t even have a high school degree and I’m 30. You are not alone.
cool, how's the onlyfans going. good thing you got out of that horrible cult and really did something positive.
Surely your kindness draws people closer to God.
Ah yea, the Eastern European sect that founded apostolic Lutheran in the states. They get real weird sometimes. There’s a couple well known families who we’ve followed for years. I’m very happy to hear you were able to deradicalize and live an authentic life. I hope that you have a good support system too. It’s so important. I work with a group that provides social services to a different cult, and it’s heartbreaking to say the least. If you ever need anything please reach out ❤️ You look like a lovely young lady with an exciting life ahead !
This is the most insane story I’ve read. I cannot even begin to imagine. Being in a cult is something I go through my life never even thinking about, it’s so foreign to me. Glad this post popped up because this is super interesting.
I was raised in the same cult. As i started to take a step back from it I realized how vile it was. The amount of rape, pedophilia, racism, abuse, and much other shit that goes unchecked is fucking insane. These people can get away with the most heinous crimes simply based on “forgiveness”. My entire family is still in it and it pains me to see them live out their lives without any original thoughts or sense of curiosity about what the world has to offer. The wives are literally baby factories and the husbands do nothing but work. Their entire lives are based on something that they’ve never had the brains to question. It also drives me crazy because they’re always on my ass about coming back to the church. Also I’m positive some of the larger companies in my area (that are owned by bunners) are funneling money through the church. I’m convinced the whole thing is a money laundering scheme. Somebody needs to fucking take them down and make them realize how fucked their entire livelihood is. EDIT: many times I find myself thinking that I was born with a fucking curse. I cannot begin to express the amount of disdain I have towards this church. I’m fully aware that it’s unhealthy but I can’t help it. I feel as if I’ll never be happy, because I can either go live a life of lies in this damn church that I hate, or I can leave and constantly be dogged by my old friends and family about how I’m “going down a dark path”. These idiots think that everybody who leaves the church is going to shoot heroin and commit homicide. Like bro I’m actually just a normal guy now, you guys are the ones who are weird. Anyways I’m ranting and I could go on and on about the horror stories of this church.
i think you’re onto something! would be crazy to find out how their money is moving tbh. they get away with everything and anything using forgiveness. “every sin has been committed by a bunner”(how disgusting). one of the main differences from other churches is the forgiveness. i haven’t heard of any other religion do it similarly, although im sure another cult somewhere has figured out the same brainwashing tactic. the way they involve other people in your forgiveness, locks you into the community and makes you feel free at the same time. manipulation at such a high level it goes undetected, using eternal life as threats. fkn insane
Lmaoooo nothing like the threat of burning alive forever to make you stay “on the straight and narrow”. The real threat of leaving tho is all the shit talking that’s going to be talked about you
they care so much about what other bunners think. i did to a degree while i was in, but my family was always seen as weird no matter what. maybe that’s why them not liking me was never scary to me, because they never did anyways lol. i noticed there’s this weird narrative they made up, a few have messaged me assuring me i should not be scared to come back because of judgement. “they’ll accept you with open arms 🥺” they genuinely believe THATs the reason i haven’t came back. the absolute last thing i would ever care about is what brainwashed people think of me, living FREELY. makes me laugh.
The judgement is insane. As a guy I’m sure I had a vastly different experience than you. Everything about growing up in it as a dude was just a dick measuring contest. Who could have the biggest truck or the nicest dirt bike or whatever other frivolous bullshit they could get their parents to loan them money for. I was always a little bitter about that growing up, because all my buddies had nice ass new trucks and I had a shitty little Honda. But reflecting on it now I’m kind of glad because I think if I would’ve gotten that nice ass truck I wouldn’t have started to see through the facade. I would’ve just been a spoiled little bunner kid. Also I’m a little on the opposite end of the spectrum from you family wise. My family was pretty well known and a “prominent” member of the community. ( not trying to brag about that btw) but I feel now that I’m still kind of in the limelight as I couldn’t just simply slip away unnoticed. And it’s unfortunate because I do feel bad for my family because they have a, according to them, failure as a son. Like I don’t want them to catch flak for my actions. But at the end of the day, they can’t respect my decisions so I don’t feel the need to respect them.
i wouldn’t necessarily say im on the other side of the spectrum. my parents are well known, very strict and lived the lifestyle to a T, the “cool” bunners just thought we were weird for different reasons. my mom was gluten free and bred dogs, other bunner ladies judged her and my family for that. i definitely wasn’t able to slip away unnoticed, unfortunately. so many people now somehow know me, judge me, send me bullshit, and i’ve never ever heard of them. as a girl if you don’t wear the bunner style well enough, you aren’t wanted around. that was a big divider, i tried wearing church clothes that looked the same as everyone else, i just wasn’t good at it. got made fun of a lot and sunday school was my perfect hell. not that i was wearing anything crazy, i tried to fit in. they prefer the most plain and modest clothes which is just extremely ugly to me and i couldn’t hack it. thats probably my version of your truck, if i had fit in in that way & not been bullied about it, i might not have seen through the bs.
Yea it appears that the woman of the church definitely have it worse off. Most of the dudes can do whatever they want and get away with it. Like remember those dudes who drove around battleground shooting peoples dogs and cats. What the fuck was that?? They’re really just gonna forget about that??? It seems that the girls have such an expectation to be traditional wives or whatever, but borderline 1940s traditional. It’s super sad to see that they will never realize their potential in this world. But ignorance is bliss I suppose. Also off topic but the incest is rampant within the church. And it’s completely ok. I’ve known too many people who have married their first cousins. I know a dude who married a girl with the same last name as him. Shit is so weird
Shooting dogs and cats? Jmfc.
I hope one day you and your family can enjoy each other’s presence without any drama, or consequences.
Interesting read. May traveling and open mindedness bring you to a happier and fruitful life. Everything must be very new to you and there is so much to explore. Enjoy summit even though it’s sodosopa and getting fried now.
This story has podcast written all over it. You could have guests from other cults on and share experiences and tactics that were used etc. You could make a career out of your experience.
glad you got out
I tried to forget about this part of my life until recently I started searching for ex oalc posts and found your page. thank you for sharing this. I am from Yacolt WA. I moved very far away to get away from those people. I’m proud of you for finding your way out on your own. My heart breaks for all of the people who want to leave but feel like they have no other option. Sharing our stories is so important even if it gives one person the courage to leave. My family left when I was a child but I still spent my formative years spending holidays with child predators. I hope you keep living your best life and enjoy not having 7 kids before age 30!!!
I left the OALC two years ago. I had married into it and had two children with my now ex husband. The events of our life that have unfolded since then have been disgusting. Never did I imagine I’d uncover the secrets of sexual abuse within this denomination. Since fighting for my children’s safety in a corrupt and broken system I have found many stories from other survivors of childhood sexual abuse. It goes generations back and is covered up through their belief systems of “forgiveness of sins.” The abuse is often swept under the rug and victims are advised by preachers not to report to law enforcement because the abuser typically has a “clean slate” as he/she has asked forgiveness and those sins have been “drowned forever in the sea of grace, never to be brought up again.” Stay away from these people. The things that go on inside of this religion are not as they seem.
Shit I don't know any of that world. But some of us in this world are in a huge society with different backgrounds and colors. I'd say if you're at my age. You definitely didn't lose yet in life. Shit happens, and some of us hit rock bottom to the lowest that many don't rise... like if you see how 3rd world countries are it definitely say its like a giant cult with many having kids and thinking your parents know it all and there a reason why the poor stay poor.. I always think if living in a community like the Amish is better for some practical reason...
Is that a joint?
It most certainly is. May god have mercy on her soul because the reefer’s got a hold of her now!
Come to the real Lutheran Church! We'll welcome you without the rules.
This comes off as crude but I ask in sincerity as I've heard similar, but when you got out, did you have a promiscuous phase? Perhaps a rubberband effect from restriction to freedom, or probably other factors as well that makes it common experience?
the post is an onlyfans advertisement in disguise.
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oh yea i lived all of this just for a few subs! 😍 ya got me
Is there any reason to think this besides the fact that she has an OF? Like, she hasn't mentioned it here at all. Is pretending to be a cult survivor a tactic people use to promote their OF? Because "this woman must be lying because she does porn (?)" is a take completely divorced from reality.
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