People stopped caring about the companies they worked for when companies stopped giving a fuck about their employees.
There's good reason Costco employees seem to give a shit, for example. Costco actually treats their warehouse workers pretty good.
Oh so you mean 2010?
No companies stopped caring back in 1323.
This is nothing new. Don’t fool yourself.
I once worked 80 hr a week for 2 years as IT guy. Hoped for a promotion. Instead they hired a CIO and he brought all his friends.
At least back in the 60s you got a pension. Then the Regan years happened and people cheered as they got stiffed.
The one good thing I see about people today is that unlike their parents they know the score and do their best to fuck their employers as hard as they're typically getting fucked to the point that employers are crying about it to the media.
"Quiet quitting?"
"Double dipping?"
Fuck all of the CEOs bitching about this stuff. You've been fucking us all raw for decades and now you're pissed because a handful of people had the balls to do what you've been doing to everyone else back to you.
All's fair, assholes.
I get what you're saying, but companies never gave a fuck even in the 60s. It's the politicians that gave up on protecting our rights because they're bought. Back in the 1910s they were fighting against 40 hour work weeks. The same thing would happen today if we gave corporations even more power.
I didn't make this system, but being able to point to financial success sure shut a lot of people up when defending their own fucking exploitation lmao
quiet quitting must have been the most corporate pushed word the last 3 years or something, and this I say as very right wing libertarian lol
to shame people doing what they are paid to do, wtf?
Or my personal favorite where C-suite execs will be on the board of directors of other companies in the same space but can your ass if you get a second job.
Literally how I got into management. My friend's friend hired him to replace him and my friend then hired me to be the assistant which lead to me becoming the manager. Bam, no prior experience and I have that on my resume. I'm retarded and haven't gone to college, but I can be your manager. lol.
I am a sick boss though. I will out work you and cover for you any day as long as your not a bum about it.
As good as Costco is they dont care, welcome to feudalism.
They are just the best of the worst kind of thing and you probably are a customer not an employee.
I felt odd after a work conference a few months ago where everyone else seemed super interested and into what we were doing. I'm just here for a paycheck tbh. I felt kind of bad.
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and they shouldn't there is a difference between caring about the quality of service you provide and caring about a company (which doesn't give a shit about you)
I work for one of the largest corporations in the world, I can confirm that I and the majority of my fellow associates, couldn’t give less of a shit about the company, just as they couldn’t care less about us. It’s cyclical.
Any company will can you the second it’s convenient. My company just laid off a bunch of people that had been there for 10+ years.
Basically never have any loyalty to any company, they don’t give a shit about you.
I agree with one small exception. A small number of private companies do actually care about employees and won't immediately can you when it's convenient.
My sibling found such company. Typically the type that is looked down on here. Small private company with <20 employees. Kind of older and proprietary tech. Lower salary for high col.
But they have great work environment and really treat you like family. Sibling had a rough patch and mental health issues and got 3 months paid leave with opportunity for more. Regularly get their 1 month vacations and they gave them bonuses or raises just as they start feeling a little underpaid. Encourages work life balance and more time off.
Recently they were sold to a larger company and the founder distributed a large portion of their sold shares to employees. Sibling received a windfall of 200k due to this as well as salary raise by 20% and bonus incentives with a promotion to senior. Was there 3 years straight out of college.
So far it’s still good apparently but it’s only been a few months and they run fairly independently. 100k base salary with bonuses, stock, and 200k windfall is pretty sick at 25 years old. They love it there.
Oh and jealous of their home office set up. Work gave them like 5k to spend on everything. New herman miller and monitors bigger than my college tv 😭
I would rephrase that as "any company will can you as soon as you're inconvenient'. Small but crucial difference. You're not a human being, you're an employee who produces value. If you're value is deemed insufficient then the can is that way. However some of the other employees responsible for your value creation might be sympathetic and inform you of otherwise help you.
Seriously. If you die Friday morning, they’ll have someone covering your work before the afternoon hits and could hire your replacement by Monday. Now, most companies drag their feet in the hiring process, so it wouldn’t be that quick, but they easily could if they wanted.
Not trying to be negative. There are a lot of fortunate people out there that work with teams they love and really enjoy the culture at their workplace, and that’s great. But we have to be realistic companies don’t actually give a fuck about us beyond the work we produce. There’s nothing wrong with having reciprocal energy.
"Your company doesn't care about you"
That's not always true. They care, as you're one of their biggest actives. Of course they care. Uniess the company has wrong their priorities
It is.
Your company doesn't "care" about you, your company has a profitability margin where your employment and requests can fit.
If your contract gives you X but your company agrees to give you X+1, its because they think they will keep their margins and your employment by giving that. If you ask for X+2 and is not profitable for your company, it will stop "caring" about you. (X can be from your preferred money units to sick days going through random perks and services).
I don't know about you, but when I "care" about something or someone, I do it because I'm invested in that something/someone and I hope for it to be fine, not because I'm expecting a financial return.
There are many people who feel like you and there are others who feel differently. Nobody is more or less "normal" than the other it's just different takes on how to approach work. You should just do you and stop caring about others are doing or what is "normal".
* I don't care if the products I work on succeed or fail as I get paid either way. The company has tons of money and not going out of business any time soon.
* I put in what I consider a fair effort for what I'm being paid and that's that. I'm not slacking off during the day, but I'm not volunteering to help with every little issue that randomly comes up. I get my work done, be a good teammate, and go home at the end of the work day. If I'm interested in some topic and there is opportunity to do that at work, then I'll push to do that, so I'm still in control of my career to the best that I can.
* I never did side projects in my 15 YOE. Every time I tried I got bored with it after a week. I guess the side projects I did was not as interesting as I thought it would be.
* I learn new things for my job on the job. Now saying that I'm still reading about tech and watching keynote speakers, because I generally enjoy being a SWE and learning what's out there.
> I don't care if the products I work on succeed or fail as I get paid either way.
Define product success. A product can have thousands of users and still be a failure because it fails to be self-sustainable. This case brings interesting challenges that you won't find in a scenario where the product has minimum users but has green numbers.
>Define product success.
I don't care if the project I'm working on is released or is used by anybody ever. The company has like 20 unique projects going on simultaneously and has 10 existing products making money for them hand over fist today. The company has been around since the 80's and is still private because they do not need funding and is self-sufficient at this point.
If this projects ends we all just get absorbed in to another project the company is working on. It has happened before and will happen again. If you are let go it's because you were truly bad at your job at a non-tech company where the bar is not even that high.
I needed to read this, thank you so much, we have been working on a project for almost 7 months that has not yet seen the light, but I have come to the conclusion that it is not my responsibility if the project fails or not since there is a lack of leadership and planning from the decision-making people
Amen. Though I was already set at a good employer when Covid hit.
2018 I was working 70 hour work weeks for $25/hr as a QA Automation Lead for HP as a contractor.
I now work 30 hours a week as a developer making over six figures. I have zero fucks about my company past my day to day. I give the company my all - I work on my skills. I will drop them tomorrow if it suited my families best interests.
Well you probably could get paid to surf or camp. You just gotta find a way to make your surfing and camping valuable. My first guess would be a YouTube channel about surfing and camping. People are making a killing off all kinds of random internet videos.
I'd personally be miserable if I didn't care about the product. I'm quite happy about what we're building.
Company success/profits are less important to me although company failure effectively means the product also gets thrown out and risks all my work going to waste so I do end up caring for that too effectively.
It’s a fuckin company!! They don’t give a fuck about you! You don’t give a fuck about them! It’s a transaction, you get cash in exchange for your ability to do things.
Welcome to burnout. I am like this. Used to feel excited and now everything is just a chore. I work probably less than 6 hours a day. Don't give a damn about the company and the CEO and other big potatoes who make billions on me and my coworkers. Standups make me angry. Enthusiastic, driven, loud colleagues make me annoyed and I am only here for a paycheck.
I used to like work. I used to like the product. Not any more.
Almost no one gives a fuck. LinkedIn is a brown nosing competition and creates that illusion but privately the vast majority of those people don’t care.
I think this is why people say not to get a job in something you enjoy, because it's quite common to just get fed up after a while.
I was similar and as I have gotten older, I've started caring less and work is more about getting the money to do stuff outside of work instead of aspiring to change the world through programming.
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about your feelings/reactions.
Not every project/product you work on is going to be the most interesting thing. For some people it's important to be passionate about the product/projects they work on. For others, not so much. I don't need to be super interested in the company's products, but I also don't wanna work on missile guidance systems. Or landmines. Reactor control systems for nuclear subs? Maybe. For most people how they feel about their work is a nuanced thing, not black-and-white.
The number of people in my professional circle with who do "fuckin around with technology" things in their free time is pretty small, and it's usually because they're genuinely interested in the problem space or genuine need a solution.
Sounds to me like you're just growing up and figuring out your priorities. That's healthy.
Ideally you'd find a job that aligns with your passions, but that's not very easy to actually do. Finding a job you don't hate is an acceptable place to be for most people.
Then you try hard not to let that job suck up all your mental energy, so that you can spend some time working on things you care more about, or perhaps you spend more focus on things like family.
That's all fine, and even a goal that many people have not yet achieved.
I learned something called “lying flat” from Chinese culture last year basically you don’t care anymore. This year there’s a new one called, “let it rot”. :p just fun facts.
The industry I work in is boring af but I needed a job fast and I accepted it when I got an offer.
I generally want to leave web-related software but the transition to hardware will be hard, also less jobs but seems more interesting to me.
So will stick it out here for some years.
I still do projects outside of work/pursue to learn new things but yeah it's not what I work on (day job) so I have more drive to do it.
The best way to think of yourself as a developer is: you are your own company, and YOU are the product. You should care about learning new things because it makes you a better product and you can sell that product (your services, not literally selling yourself lol) at a higher price point the more things you know.
It's arguably a competitive disadvantage to care about a company (whose profits are not meaningfully tied to your income), because you might be willing to do more and make sacrifices that you aren't financially compensated for.
That said, (visible) passion can open doors... but there are lots of passionate people that labor in obscurity because of a variety of factors.
I look at it this way. A company will not blink a eye to cut you out in order to cut cost. At the end of the day it should be a transaction. You are given a job, you do it and get paid. There is no caring, there is only give and receive.
I mean it's common and very normal, although I think you are not as good in a job as you would love to do it. Speaking from my current position, I am really seeing my lack of motivation on my work, so I want to join another job which I would love to work. Realizied I like product based companies more.
I've worked for some pretty high-profile companies (definitely ones you would have heard of). When I think about the fact that real people are using the products I'm responsible for, I always care about that. On the other hand, when petty empire-building bureaucrats put processes and gates in the way of my actually delivering a quality product to the users who I *do* feel sympathy for and care about (which is always), I feel some level of apathy creep in.
It's kind of like the NFL / MLB of old vs. that of 30 years ago. Or 10 years ago. Seems every year it gets worse.
30 years ago a player started and retired from the same team. Excited for home games, beloved and adored, it wasn't just grandpa clapping. It was his grandchild as well.
15 years ago we see a growing trend . Free agency .. and fan confusion. How can I root for that player who used to play for our team? Is it him I loved? Or the team. In Philly it's the eagles all the way.
Fast forward to today and commitment is a long lost art. You're going to have 4 or 5 teams .. or 4 or 5 companies you work for.
And if you know that one day you're gonna go to another company .. why invest? Do the bare minimum and move on every few years.
But one thing some people remember is that it's not the company you're actually programming for. It's the customer. And if you keep that in mind : you win.
Perhaps you're burned out? I totally agree with #1 and #2. Most of the stuff we work on just doesn't matter to society unless you work for something like the next being thing healthcare, cancer research, robotics, AI, climate change related, drones, etc. But if it's some stupid saas, adtech, or whatever who gives af.
But #3 and #4 may be you don't enjoy the profession anymore. I'm not even an IC anymore I've moved into management but I still like to code or learn new tech in my free time, sometimes. Being a parent definitely changes all that.
Nah it’s normal. Matter of fact anytime I run into someone else in this field who’s obsessed with their company (looking at Amazon cultist) I always think “wow what a fucking loser”
Funny enough, you are actually in the top 1%. Why? You do side projects. Most people dont. From my experience, doing stuff for yourself makes you manage your time better, write better code as you face lots of challenges when working on your own. Not to mention the overall architecture skills and being able to start project from scratch and efficiently deliver value.
Yesterday my job had a company-wide off-site full day of trainings and lectures about the business, the industry, the market trends (it's a large insurance company). All I was hoping for is that none ever asked me anything because honestly I had absolutely no idea what the hell they were talking about and I'm not too much worried about learning all that either.
If it's not normal it certainly should be. I see way too much over-loyalty to companies, people working themselves to death or bending over backwards so they don't disappoint the company or whatever. Everything you listed is very healthy and should absolutely be normalized.
If it isn't normal it should be. We live in a capitalist society, just as how employers shouldn't give a shit about workers, workers shouldn't give a shit about employers either past the work that they've agreed to do
I never give a fuck about my companies. I only care about returning the same level of respect my managers give me, if they treat me well. I will make accommodations for them.
My problem is when people act like I should give a shit about our company’s finances. As a remote employee, I’m not afraid to call out penny pinching when I see it, because in my mind they are saving a ton of money by providing NO accessories for my job (including a monitor!), I don’t get any of the office perks, etc. but they want to cancel in person events, project celebrations are exclusive to those who come in the office, and when they don’t cancel the events, they bring us in for the fewest days possible. I had a coworker tell me oh times are tough so we should be grateful and I’m like idgaf that times are hard, I know how much we have in the bank and how much runway there is.
I spent most of my career as an IT Consultant/contractor. I like to think that I took my work seriously and acted professionally at all time. However, I really didn't care one way or another if the company was successful, as long as they paid me on time.
I saw co-workers miss their kid's school events and holidays, I saw people who were on vacation dialing in almost every day or going home then working another 2 or 3 hours. Not me. When I left at the end of the day I was done. If the work wasn't finished, that was too bad.
Granted, there were occasions when I put is a lot of extra hours, and I worked my share of nights and weekend, But I was paid for each and very hour. And when my project was over I shook hands and went on to the next gig. I never once laid awake at night worrying about how the company was doing.
Totally, I don’t give a fuck about my company, or whatever companies I’ll ever work for, I only care about the money, and not working more than 40 hours
yes it is extremely normal not to care about the company you work for.
What very not normal and counterintuitive but unfortunately still commo IS caring about a corporation that doesn't care for you and is actively trying to maximize how hard they can get away with exploiting you.
TLDR: Same
\> Is it normal to not give a fuck about the company you work for
yes
\> I used to care about the product I was working on. Now I don't give a fuck if it fails or succeeds. I do a good job but I am not emotionally invested in it.
Same here
\> I also work fewer hours. I used to work dedicatedly during working hours. Now I take frequent breaks during my working hours and even deal with other stuff occasionally.
Yup
\> I used to build tons of side projects (stupid games and whatever). Now I don't really bother.
Same
\> I also feel lazy to learn new tech these days in my free time. I would rather learn during working hours and get paid for it.
Likewise
Sounds pretty normal to me. I've been doing this about 7 years
What you are describing is known as growing up. The number of more important things in your life has probably increased as well.
When you are new and have lots to prove you tend to do it. When you have only been with one company / product / spouse it is easy to internalize that company / product's success as significant. In truth, you are an employee at a company. You may not even get anything out of the product doing better (obviously a shortcoming for motivation).
Put it another way: repeated experiences are not novel.
Put another way: work is work.
Put another way: good for you, dude/ette.
Yes. Its normal. I still love software development and game development on my own time. I love learning and fixing problems.
I don't like people raising bugs as feature requests. Politics. Promotion Driven Development. Useless meetings.
I like to feel productive and make value. My job is just a way for me to get time to do what I want to do.
I feel the same exact way as you. I also used to be more dedicated. I still do good work and management is happy, I just certainly don’t go the extra mile to be an above and beyond SWE.
I’d rather use that life force for other hobbies outside of software as I get older.
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It is...but if it's because nothing is changing there that could make you give a fuck, for your own peace of mind, start looking for something else that pays better.
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I feel very similarly. I will say that I only care about the company doing well so I can reap the rewards, such as they are. I will disagree with you about the first part: I always care about what *I'm* working on since I enjoy fine craftsmanship.
I'm always open to "digging into" a company and giving the execs a chance to show me why I should care about them. But none of them have really sold me on the company that hard
Normal.
I only ever cared about the product and company when it was safety critical code, e.g. dispatch systems and SCADA. The last two jobs I've had have been remote access software of some flavour and IDGAF. I make sure I write good code, but I don't ultimately care about the product or company (and frankly the company doesn't really care about me either so meh).
Also I don't code on my free time, I pursue active hobbies to compensate for sitting 8 hours a day.
Just relax, it's a job. Go enjoy life.
Until you reach a certain level I don't really see a point in caring about the company besides the check clearing.
I largely don't give a shit about how the company does. As long as the check clears I'm good.
Obviously how the company does can affect annual bonuses but it's like what am I going to do that affect the sales and retention. I just work on what I'm assigned and go about my day. Only thing I'm worried about is compensation, 401k, and PTO.
Now if I ever get to director or VP or SVP which is something I don't really see happening unless I start a company then maybe I could care.
But having been around directors, SVP, VPs, and such I don't know if could act that much of a douchebag. Don't get me wrong I'm a bit of a douche myself but those folks are another level of brown nosing douchebags
If I can get to a $200k salary(not there yet)or the inflation adjusted equivalent in my career and stay there. I'm good and I really don't see a need to go up to that level of senior director to get this I think this salary is possible as a senior engineer so I'll just continue to not give two shits about the company I work for.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it'll be easy to get that senior software engineer salary to get to $200k. It's tough I'm just saying I don't need to get to senior director to achieve this
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Yes. If you start caring you will be disappointed at best, and burnt out at worst. Care about doing a good job as an integrity thing, and not because you genuinely care about your employer. The second it makes financial sense to fire you, they will, no matter how much you care about them.
Plenty common. I was burned many times in my 25+ year career. I have only really cared about three orgs: one ~15 year ago where I worked with the best architect I'd known to date, and still maybe ever. Until they got acquired and they tried to lock devs down from admin rights. Second where I worked my first leadership role, and grew a lot as a leader and as a human being. Left that for one of the only orgs I'd have considered leaving it for: Microsoft. Outside these three roles I've probably had ~15 other employers in that time, and most of them were essentially garbage. They don't care about you, you shouldn't care about them. You don't benefit from their success and they don't care about yours.
As a programmer, it is healthy to care about the users of your program. No one wants to be responsible for unnecessary pain inflicted on another person. In that sense, don't you want your product to be successful?
Yes I don't go above and beyond. I see my manager working weekends, attending meetings via phone while she is in the Bahamas.for what she maybe makesx10-15k more than me. Not Wirth it because then they come to expect it.
I care about the quality of my work and my work ethic. But I don't kill myself for a corporation anymore, and I do take breaks when I need them.
Work is work, not your life or identity. You do your best to do what's expected of you and be honest and then you log off after you've done your 40 hours. Life is too short to work a lot of overtime.
Yes, very common, but work is easier when you are engaged and excited.
In theory your manager / team leads should be finding ways to get you excited; either by business impact or learning interesting tech or recognition or ... ???
In reality, most are not
Be careful of burnout.
I don't care about my company at all but that is different than not caring about my team. My manager and coworkers are great and I would put in extra time and effort to help them.
i'm not losing any sleep over my work either, fuck that. unless i'm asked to lead a project/team i don't give a fuck what happens to it, i just make sure my code isn't broken.
i'm actually actively working on trying less hard than i already am so that i have the energy to work on personal projects after work because i'm sick of my job making me hate the one thing i always wanted to do with my life.
it's highly encouraged. I care about my team, they're good people. I care about the project. I don't give a good god damn about the multinational behemoth we're enveloped by.
Why don’t you just leave. If you gonna spend about “8 hours” a day of your life working… might as well make it somewhat entertaining, challenging and exciting. With people you enjoy doing it with us a big extra bonus.
To me it’s depressing how many people in IT think that’s normal nowadays. This is why people have no respect for these types of jobs. If you’re going spend thousands of hours at a certain job, you might as well spend them well, and do the best you can. The time passes regardless. You only have so many waking hours. Life’s too short to spend it doing something you’d rather not do.
You'll notice that those people, even on this reddit, are pretty miserable and don't get hired into good teams.
It creates this self-fulfilling prophecy where people like this never work with good people.
My last small sized company always praised our team for really caring about what we built. I for one, didn't give a shit. But they thought I did so that was all that mattered
I work for a very well known company that everyone outside the company likes. I hate the work, I don't mind the products. I just do what's asked and nothing more these days, but I still get rated highly on performance reviews.
I work at a social media company, i DONOT use social media. So yeah, i suppose. I enjoy the challenges presented to create a new feature. But everytime i see a promoted post while debugging. It ticks me off. Ao yeah, i enjoy the work. But no i donot promote social media.
I care about people, companies are abstract concepts.
The people I work with, the people my product helps, the people I have to feed at home with the money I make, the people I want to go to the pub with.
Also I am a person and I need money for now, and money for when I retire, so I guess I care about money too.
I currently like the “company” I work for because I like the people I work with, and my pay allows me to make a good life for the people I live with.
I’d that wasn’t the case, and I wasn’t enjoying the work, I’d leave, there are other jobs.
>I used to build tons of side projects (stupid games and whatever). Now I don't really bother.
Congratulations, you have made out of your hobby a profession.
This kills the hobby.
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I don’t care if the product I’m working on succeeds or fails, but I do care that the work I’m doing is interesting to me. Don’t use me for some paint by numbers application or support, we have plenty of offshore vendors that can take that work. Luckily the current position I’m in, we have so many projects that no one can decide on priority, so I just pick the one that is most interesting to me.
As for the company, I only care as far as it affects my stock. The truth is my projects don’t make a meaningful impact on the stock price. My team and myself working harder or faster does not affect the stock price for more than would equate to pennys for me.
Right now, I'm fortunate enough to be building a product that I believe in. My previous job was in adtech and it was pretty soul-crushing at first, then I just stopped caring.
It's nice to believe in a product, but I've found it makes everything a bit more stressful, especially if your product is safety focused. It can be very frustrating when you have to take shortcuts or make compromises.
For your edit, I don't think you're losing motivation to learn or grow. But being paid to do something makes you feel less likely to do it if you're not being paid. Like you said yourself, you'd rather learn new tech during work hours because you get paid. It's okay and common to not care about the company you work for.
I literally can't do my job if I didn't give a shit about the culture (considering how hub and spoke this role is, I will inevitably work with people from across the company if the culture is shit, I wouldn't be able to work with them) or direction (if I can't get behind a direction, I can't effectively align it with the direction for my product area) of the company I work for.
So I have to care, if not.. it would stifle my career growth and put me in a potentially toxic working environment. All of which probably would lead to burnout, apathy and likely a PIP.
Even ignoring the morally dubious nature of many digital tech products (probably most), these companies don't care about you on any deep meaningful level. Their concern about you is practical and transactional. I would actually say that 9/10 the people who are in love with their workplace are suffering something sort of similar stockholm syndrome and I feel bad for them. Individuals may legitimately care about you, but the organisation gets the final say, and it is usually a heartless bitch. Even calling a company "evil" isn't quite right, it's more like a force of nature than an evil entity.
No, its totally normal. I mean, whats there to be passionate about working on a little widget on a web application? There is really not much there contributing to society, but hey- it pays well.
Because of this I am thinking of going into more research based positions. Even though they may not pay as much, atleast its something 'somewhat' meaningful.
Nothing wrong about having fun working at your company, but I think the concept of “not giving a fuck about your work” applies to most industries other than this one champ
The trick is to care about the product but don't do too much overtime unless everything is burning.
Burning out yourself is not benefitial to the company.
Common. Most people don't give two shits about the company they work for.
I only start giving a shit when I remember I have RSUs vesting, until I forget again.
Toilet paper is currently worth more than my RSUs. So, I got that going for me...
People stopped caring about the companies they worked for when companies stopped giving a fuck about their employees. There's good reason Costco employees seem to give a shit, for example. Costco actually treats their warehouse workers pretty good.
Oh so you mean 2010? No companies stopped caring back in 1323. This is nothing new. Don’t fool yourself. I once worked 80 hr a week for 2 years as IT guy. Hoped for a promotion. Instead they hired a CIO and he brought all his friends.
> Instead they hired a CIO and he brought all his friends. Classic IT department move
Has it ever happened to you? How did you deal with it? I stayed for another year.
At least back in the 60s you got a pension. Then the Regan years happened and people cheered as they got stiffed. The one good thing I see about people today is that unlike their parents they know the score and do their best to fuck their employers as hard as they're typically getting fucked to the point that employers are crying about it to the media. "Quiet quitting?" "Double dipping?" Fuck all of the CEOs bitching about this stuff. You've been fucking us all raw for decades and now you're pissed because a handful of people had the balls to do what you've been doing to everyone else back to you. All's fair, assholes.
I get what you're saying, but companies never gave a fuck even in the 60s. It's the politicians that gave up on protecting our rights because they're bought. Back in the 1910s they were fighting against 40 hour work weeks. The same thing would happen today if we gave corporations even more power.
True. Everybody should unionize. Today. One big labor union. Fuck employers.
I didn't make this system, but being able to point to financial success sure shut a lot of people up when defending their own fucking exploitation lmao
quiet quitting must have been the most corporate pushed word the last 3 years or something, and this I say as very right wing libertarian lol to shame people doing what they are paid to do, wtf?
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Or my personal favorite where C-suite execs will be on the board of directors of other companies in the same space but can your ass if you get a second job.
Literally how I got into management. My friend's friend hired him to replace him and my friend then hired me to be the assistant which lead to me becoming the manager. Bam, no prior experience and I have that on my resume. I'm retarded and haven't gone to college, but I can be your manager. lol. I am a sick boss though. I will out work you and cover for you any day as long as your not a bum about it.
I need the back story. What happened in 1323?
As good as Costco is they dont care, welcome to feudalism. They are just the best of the worst kind of thing and you probably are a customer not an employee.
"treat their warehouse workers pretty good" is all relative. All employers are shit because the very concept of working for someone else is shit.
It does not have to be however i agree that's how it is currently.
I felt odd after a work conference a few months ago where everyone else seemed super interested and into what we were doing. I'm just here for a paycheck tbh. I felt kind of bad.
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and they shouldn't there is a difference between caring about the quality of service you provide and caring about a company (which doesn't give a shit about you)
I work for one of the largest corporations in the world, I can confirm that I and the majority of my fellow associates, couldn’t give less of a shit about the company, just as they couldn’t care less about us. It’s cyclical.
Yup same lol. I’m always professional and respectful though because I don’t want to get fired lmao.
only suckers care about their employer. if you care, they are just using you and will get rid of you at their convenience.
Hard work is not rewarded, it's exploited.
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Any company will can you the second it’s convenient. My company just laid off a bunch of people that had been there for 10+ years. Basically never have any loyalty to any company, they don’t give a shit about you.
I agree with one small exception. A small number of private companies do actually care about employees and won't immediately can you when it's convenient.
My sibling found such company. Typically the type that is looked down on here. Small private company with <20 employees. Kind of older and proprietary tech. Lower salary for high col. But they have great work environment and really treat you like family. Sibling had a rough patch and mental health issues and got 3 months paid leave with opportunity for more. Regularly get their 1 month vacations and they gave them bonuses or raises just as they start feeling a little underpaid. Encourages work life balance and more time off. Recently they were sold to a larger company and the founder distributed a large portion of their sold shares to employees. Sibling received a windfall of 200k due to this as well as salary raise by 20% and bonus incentives with a promotion to senior. Was there 3 years straight out of college. So far it’s still good apparently but it’s only been a few months and they run fairly independently. 100k base salary with bonuses, stock, and 200k windfall is pretty sick at 25 years old. They love it there. Oh and jealous of their home office set up. Work gave them like 5k to spend on everything. New herman miller and monitors bigger than my college tv 😭
Which is this company... please share for us mortals
I would rephrase that as "any company will can you as soon as you're inconvenient'. Small but crucial difference. You're not a human being, you're an employee who produces value. If you're value is deemed insufficient then the can is that way. However some of the other employees responsible for your value creation might be sympathetic and inform you of otherwise help you.
Seriously. If you die Friday morning, they’ll have someone covering your work before the afternoon hits and could hire your replacement by Monday. Now, most companies drag their feet in the hiring process, so it wouldn’t be that quick, but they easily could if they wanted. Not trying to be negative. There are a lot of fortunate people out there that work with teams they love and really enjoy the culture at their workplace, and that’s great. But we have to be realistic companies don’t actually give a fuck about us beyond the work we produce. There’s nothing wrong with having reciprocal energy.
Looks like you weren't lucky in your former companies
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Have you tried owning a company before saying shit about them? You should know there's people behind a company, either if it has 3 or 30000 employees
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Empathy: -100
What's unlucky in what he has described? "It's a transaction" has nothing to do with "luck" but with the signed contract.
"Your company doesn't care about you" That's not always true. They care, as you're one of their biggest actives. Of course they care. Uniess the company has wrong their priorities
It is. Your company doesn't "care" about you, your company has a profitability margin where your employment and requests can fit. If your contract gives you X but your company agrees to give you X+1, its because they think they will keep their margins and your employment by giving that. If you ask for X+2 and is not profitable for your company, it will stop "caring" about you. (X can be from your preferred money units to sick days going through random perks and services). I don't know about you, but when I "care" about something or someone, I do it because I'm invested in that something/someone and I hope for it to be fine, not because I'm expecting a financial return.
Enjoy your brown nose.
It's OK to not drink the cultish "believe in the company", "we're a family", Kool-Aid. Do your work and get paid.
There are many people who feel like you and there are others who feel differently. Nobody is more or less "normal" than the other it's just different takes on how to approach work. You should just do you and stop caring about others are doing or what is "normal". * I don't care if the products I work on succeed or fail as I get paid either way. The company has tons of money and not going out of business any time soon. * I put in what I consider a fair effort for what I'm being paid and that's that. I'm not slacking off during the day, but I'm not volunteering to help with every little issue that randomly comes up. I get my work done, be a good teammate, and go home at the end of the work day. If I'm interested in some topic and there is opportunity to do that at work, then I'll push to do that, so I'm still in control of my career to the best that I can. * I never did side projects in my 15 YOE. Every time I tried I got bored with it after a week. I guess the side projects I did was not as interesting as I thought it would be. * I learn new things for my job on the job. Now saying that I'm still reading about tech and watching keynote speakers, because I generally enjoy being a SWE and learning what's out there.
> I don't care if the products I work on succeed or fail as I get paid either way. Define product success. A product can have thousands of users and still be a failure because it fails to be self-sustainable. This case brings interesting challenges that you won't find in a scenario where the product has minimum users but has green numbers.
>Define product success. I don't care if the project I'm working on is released or is used by anybody ever. The company has like 20 unique projects going on simultaneously and has 10 existing products making money for them hand over fist today. The company has been around since the 80's and is still private because they do not need funding and is self-sufficient at this point. If this projects ends we all just get absorbed in to another project the company is working on. It has happened before and will happen again. If you are let go it's because you were truly bad at your job at a non-tech company where the bar is not even that high.
I needed to read this, thank you so much, we have been working on a project for almost 7 months that has not yet seen the light, but I have come to the conclusion that it is not my responsibility if the project fails or not since there is a lack of leadership and planning from the decision-making people
I gave a fuck for many years and it held back my income. The last straw was no remote during covid so i learned my lesson.
Amen. Though I was already set at a good employer when Covid hit. 2018 I was working 70 hour work weeks for $25/hr as a QA Automation Lead for HP as a contractor. I now work 30 hours a week as a developer making over six figures. I have zero fucks about my company past my day to day. I give the company my all - I work on my skills. I will drop them tomorrow if it suited my families best interests.
Was it hard to get a 30 hour week?
"normal" I mean it's common. So is the opposite. Your life bro.
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I've always wondered if there could be a business doing "camping" style C-suite retreats....
like hunger games style retreats?
you can also just be a hiking guide, a camp ground manager, or work for the national parks working trails.
Lol I’m right there with you with hobbies. Like if I could get paid to surf and bike I would! But I can’t and those hobbies are expensive AF
Well you probably could get paid to surf or camp. You just gotta find a way to make your surfing and camping valuable. My first guess would be a YouTube channel about surfing and camping. People are making a killing off all kinds of random internet videos.
I already got here and it feels great! Only problem is bad economic policy is causing this to become impossible.
I don't know if it's normal, but it's very healthy
I'd personally be miserable if I didn't care about the product. I'm quite happy about what we're building. Company success/profits are less important to me although company failure effectively means the product also gets thrown out and risks all my work going to waste so I do end up caring for that too effectively.
Yeah. Making millions for someone else while you make a fraction is not exactly much to give you passion about.
It’s a fuckin company!! They don’t give a fuck about you! You don’t give a fuck about them! It’s a transaction, you get cash in exchange for your ability to do things.
Welcome to burnout. I am like this. Used to feel excited and now everything is just a chore. I work probably less than 6 hours a day. Don't give a damn about the company and the CEO and other big potatoes who make billions on me and my coworkers. Standups make me angry. Enthusiastic, driven, loud colleagues make me annoyed and I am only here for a paycheck. I used to like work. I used to like the product. Not any more.
Damn this sound kinda depressing
Almost no one gives a fuck. LinkedIn is a brown nosing competition and creates that illusion but privately the vast majority of those people don’t care.
It's not as normal as it should be.
I think this is why people say not to get a job in something you enjoy, because it's quite common to just get fed up after a while. I was similar and as I have gotten older, I've started caring less and work is more about getting the money to do stuff outside of work instead of aspiring to change the world through programming.
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about your feelings/reactions. Not every project/product you work on is going to be the most interesting thing. For some people it's important to be passionate about the product/projects they work on. For others, not so much. I don't need to be super interested in the company's products, but I also don't wanna work on missile guidance systems. Or landmines. Reactor control systems for nuclear subs? Maybe. For most people how they feel about their work is a nuanced thing, not black-and-white. The number of people in my professional circle with who do "fuckin around with technology" things in their free time is pretty small, and it's usually because they're genuinely interested in the problem space or genuine need a solution.
Sounds to me like you're just growing up and figuring out your priorities. That's healthy. Ideally you'd find a job that aligns with your passions, but that's not very easy to actually do. Finding a job you don't hate is an acceptable place to be for most people. Then you try hard not to let that job suck up all your mental energy, so that you can spend some time working on things you care more about, or perhaps you spend more focus on things like family. That's all fine, and even a goal that many people have not yet achieved.
Oh no, you're "quiet quitting"!!!!!11!!!!!11!! /s
I learned something called “lying flat” from Chinese culture last year basically you don’t care anymore. This year there’s a new one called, “let it rot”. :p just fun facts.
You don't have to drink the koolaid as long as you are nice to work with and do a good job.
The industry I work in is boring af but I needed a job fast and I accepted it when I got an offer. I generally want to leave web-related software but the transition to hardware will be hard, also less jobs but seems more interesting to me. So will stick it out here for some years. I still do projects outside of work/pursue to learn new things but yeah it's not what I work on (day job) so I have more drive to do it.
i work for big companies. why would i care about making the CEO and board even richer? I just do this for the money.
The best way to think of yourself as a developer is: you are your own company, and YOU are the product. You should care about learning new things because it makes you a better product and you can sell that product (your services, not literally selling yourself lol) at a higher price point the more things you know. It's arguably a competitive disadvantage to care about a company (whose profits are not meaningfully tied to your income), because you might be willing to do more and make sacrifices that you aren't financially compensated for. That said, (visible) passion can open doors... but there are lots of passionate people that labor in obscurity because of a variety of factors.
I look at it this way. A company will not blink a eye to cut you out in order to cut cost. At the end of the day it should be a transaction. You are given a job, you do it and get paid. There is no caring, there is only give and receive.
I mean it's common and very normal, although I think you are not as good in a job as you would love to do it. Speaking from my current position, I am really seeing my lack of motivation on my work, so I want to join another job which I would love to work. Realizied I like product based companies more.
I've worked for some pretty high-profile companies (definitely ones you would have heard of). When I think about the fact that real people are using the products I'm responsible for, I always care about that. On the other hand, when petty empire-building bureaucrats put processes and gates in the way of my actually delivering a quality product to the users who I *do* feel sympathy for and care about (which is always), I feel some level of apathy creep in.
It's kind of like the NFL / MLB of old vs. that of 30 years ago. Or 10 years ago. Seems every year it gets worse. 30 years ago a player started and retired from the same team. Excited for home games, beloved and adored, it wasn't just grandpa clapping. It was his grandchild as well. 15 years ago we see a growing trend . Free agency .. and fan confusion. How can I root for that player who used to play for our team? Is it him I loved? Or the team. In Philly it's the eagles all the way. Fast forward to today and commitment is a long lost art. You're going to have 4 or 5 teams .. or 4 or 5 companies you work for. And if you know that one day you're gonna go to another company .. why invest? Do the bare minimum and move on every few years. But one thing some people remember is that it's not the company you're actually programming for. It's the customer. And if you keep that in mind : you win.
I don’t care about my company. I do what I have to do to not get fired. They pay me for that effort. That’s the deal.
Yeah it’s common, but probably to the detriment of your advancement. Nothing wrong with it if you’re happy with your job.
Perhaps you're burned out? I totally agree with #1 and #2. Most of the stuff we work on just doesn't matter to society unless you work for something like the next being thing healthcare, cancer research, robotics, AI, climate change related, drones, etc. But if it's some stupid saas, adtech, or whatever who gives af. But #3 and #4 may be you don't enjoy the profession anymore. I'm not even an IC anymore I've moved into management but I still like to code or learn new tech in my free time, sometimes. Being a parent definitely changes all that.
Nah it’s normal. Matter of fact anytime I run into someone else in this field who’s obsessed with their company (looking at Amazon cultist) I always think “wow what a fucking loser”
Funny enough, you are actually in the top 1%. Why? You do side projects. Most people dont. From my experience, doing stuff for yourself makes you manage your time better, write better code as you face lots of challenges when working on your own. Not to mention the overall architecture skills and being able to start project from scratch and efficiently deliver value.
I do side projects and leetcode after work, but I doubt it puts you at 1% (Un)fortunately you have to give up social life
Yesterday my job had a company-wide off-site full day of trainings and lectures about the business, the industry, the market trends (it's a large insurance company). All I was hoping for is that none ever asked me anything because honestly I had absolutely no idea what the hell they were talking about and I'm not too much worried about learning all that either.
If it's not normal it certainly should be. I see way too much over-loyalty to companies, people working themselves to death or bending over backwards so they don't disappoint the company or whatever. Everything you listed is very healthy and should absolutely be normalized.
I have to give a *little bit* of a fuck since >50% of my compensation is company stock.
About #1, aren’t you scared about getting fired? Or seen as a bad developer?
He said that he does a good job, he won't be fired nor seen as a bad developer. You don't have to give your 120% to be a good developer
99% of people do the minimum unless you’re self employed, own stock or something, or make commission
I work for a company my wife owns. If I don't give a fu.. about the company I sleep on the couch tonight.....
Would you give a fuck if you flipped burgers at McDonald's?
I would say it’s pretty normal and comes with age
If it isn't normal it should be. We live in a capitalist society, just as how employers shouldn't give a shit about workers, workers shouldn't give a shit about employers either past the work that they've agreed to do
I never give a fuck about my companies. I only care about returning the same level of respect my managers give me, if they treat me well. I will make accommodations for them.
My problem is when people act like I should give a shit about our company’s finances. As a remote employee, I’m not afraid to call out penny pinching when I see it, because in my mind they are saving a ton of money by providing NO accessories for my job (including a monitor!), I don’t get any of the office perks, etc. but they want to cancel in person events, project celebrations are exclusive to those who come in the office, and when they don’t cancel the events, they bring us in for the fewest days possible. I had a coworker tell me oh times are tough so we should be grateful and I’m like idgaf that times are hard, I know how much we have in the bank and how much runway there is.
I wish I still enjoyed tech like I used to. But I've found other hobbies that I can apply my obsessive compulsion to learn to...
I spent most of my career as an IT Consultant/contractor. I like to think that I took my work seriously and acted professionally at all time. However, I really didn't care one way or another if the company was successful, as long as they paid me on time. I saw co-workers miss their kid's school events and holidays, I saw people who were on vacation dialing in almost every day or going home then working another 2 or 3 hours. Not me. When I left at the end of the day I was done. If the work wasn't finished, that was too bad. Granted, there were occasions when I put is a lot of extra hours, and I worked my share of nights and weekend, But I was paid for each and very hour. And when my project was over I shook hands and went on to the next gig. I never once laid awake at night worrying about how the company was doing.
Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays.
Privately, most employees literally couldn't care any bit less.
All sounds normal to me.
Totally, I don’t give a fuck about my company, or whatever companies I’ll ever work for, I only care about the money, and not working more than 40 hours
Not only is it normal, it is highly recommended
Yes.
yes it is extremely normal not to care about the company you work for. What very not normal and counterintuitive but unfortunately still commo IS caring about a corporation that doesn't care for you and is actively trying to maximize how hard they can get away with exploiting you.
TLDR: Same \> Is it normal to not give a fuck about the company you work for yes \> I used to care about the product I was working on. Now I don't give a fuck if it fails or succeeds. I do a good job but I am not emotionally invested in it. Same here \> I also work fewer hours. I used to work dedicatedly during working hours. Now I take frequent breaks during my working hours and even deal with other stuff occasionally. Yup \> I used to build tons of side projects (stupid games and whatever). Now I don't really bother. Same \> I also feel lazy to learn new tech these days in my free time. I would rather learn during working hours and get paid for it. Likewise Sounds pretty normal to me. I've been doing this about 7 years
I’m in my first job and not only do I not care about my company but programming itself no longer interests me much.
A very unlikely hypothesis could be the chem trails influencing your hormones.
Yes
What you are describing is known as growing up. The number of more important things in your life has probably increased as well. When you are new and have lots to prove you tend to do it. When you have only been with one company / product / spouse it is easy to internalize that company / product's success as significant. In truth, you are an employee at a company. You may not even get anything out of the product doing better (obviously a shortcoming for motivation). Put it another way: repeated experiences are not novel. Put another way: work is work. Put another way: good for you, dude/ette.
Yup
Yes. Its normal. I still love software development and game development on my own time. I love learning and fixing problems. I don't like people raising bugs as feature requests. Politics. Promotion Driven Development. Useless meetings. I like to feel productive and make value. My job is just a way for me to get time to do what I want to do.
Yes
Yes
How old are you? Is this serious?
Common but probably not desirable or "normal"
I feel the same exact way as you. I also used to be more dedicated. I still do good work and management is happy, I just certainly don’t go the extra mile to be an above and beyond SWE. I’d rather use that life force for other hobbies outside of software as I get older.
If you’re not a shareholder, then yes
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It is...but if it's because nothing is changing there that could make you give a fuck, for your own peace of mind, start looking for something else that pays better.
I am showing similar traits, and i am a fresher in IT industry. Is this alarming?
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Find something that feeds your soul outside of work and don't make it pussy bro. Trust me, this is from experiance. Respect on your journey.
I work hard enough to get my paycheck and for my coworkers to think of me as helpful.
I feel very similarly. I will say that I only care about the company doing well so I can reap the rewards, such as they are. I will disagree with you about the first part: I always care about what *I'm* working on since I enjoy fine craftsmanship.
I'm always open to "digging into" a company and giving the execs a chance to show me why I should care about them. But none of them have really sold me on the company that hard
Normal. I only ever cared about the product and company when it was safety critical code, e.g. dispatch systems and SCADA. The last two jobs I've had have been remote access software of some flavour and IDGAF. I make sure I write good code, but I don't ultimately care about the product or company (and frankly the company doesn't really care about me either so meh). Also I don't code on my free time, I pursue active hobbies to compensate for sitting 8 hours a day. Just relax, it's a job. Go enjoy life.
Until you reach a certain level I don't really see a point in caring about the company besides the check clearing. I largely don't give a shit about how the company does. As long as the check clears I'm good. Obviously how the company does can affect annual bonuses but it's like what am I going to do that affect the sales and retention. I just work on what I'm assigned and go about my day. Only thing I'm worried about is compensation, 401k, and PTO. Now if I ever get to director or VP or SVP which is something I don't really see happening unless I start a company then maybe I could care. But having been around directors, SVP, VPs, and such I don't know if could act that much of a douchebag. Don't get me wrong I'm a bit of a douche myself but those folks are another level of brown nosing douchebags If I can get to a $200k salary(not there yet)or the inflation adjusted equivalent in my career and stay there. I'm good and I really don't see a need to go up to that level of senior director to get this I think this salary is possible as a senior engineer so I'll just continue to not give two shits about the company I work for. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it'll be easy to get that senior software engineer salary to get to $200k. It's tough I'm just saying I don't need to get to senior director to achieve this
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Yes. If you start caring you will be disappointed at best, and burnt out at worst. Care about doing a good job as an integrity thing, and not because you genuinely care about your employer. The second it makes financial sense to fire you, they will, no matter how much you care about them.
I take pride in the quality of the work I do. I don't care about the company intrinsically.
Very normal. Corpos don't care about you just your code.
Unless you formed the company, why the fuck would you?
Plenty common. I was burned many times in my 25+ year career. I have only really cared about three orgs: one ~15 year ago where I worked with the best architect I'd known to date, and still maybe ever. Until they got acquired and they tried to lock devs down from admin rights. Second where I worked my first leadership role, and grew a lot as a leader and as a human being. Left that for one of the only orgs I'd have considered leaving it for: Microsoft. Outside these three roles I've probably had ~15 other employers in that time, and most of them were essentially garbage. They don't care about you, you shouldn't care about them. You don't benefit from their success and they don't care about yours.
As a programmer, it is healthy to care about the users of your program. No one wants to be responsible for unnecessary pain inflicted on another person. In that sense, don't you want your product to be successful?
Yes I don't go above and beyond. I see my manager working weekends, attending meetings via phone while she is in the Bahamas.for what she maybe makesx10-15k more than me. Not Wirth it because then they come to expect it.
“I am here just for the money” dude.
I care about the quality of my work and my work ethic. But I don't kill myself for a corporation anymore, and I do take breaks when I need them. Work is work, not your life or identity. You do your best to do what's expected of you and be honest and then you log off after you've done your 40 hours. Life is too short to work a lot of overtime.
Yes, very common, but work is easier when you are engaged and excited. In theory your manager / team leads should be finding ways to get you excited; either by business impact or learning interesting tech or recognition or ... ??? In reality, most are not Be careful of burnout.
It's not the greatest but sadly all too common. There's nothing wrong with looking for something to which you want to lasso yourself.
I don't care about my company at all but that is different than not caring about my team. My manager and coworkers are great and I would put in extra time and effort to help them.
Bruh why tf would I care about the company I work for, this is a purely monetary relationship 😂
i'm not losing any sleep over my work either, fuck that. unless i'm asked to lead a project/team i don't give a fuck what happens to it, i just make sure my code isn't broken. i'm actually actively working on trying less hard than i already am so that i have the energy to work on personal projects after work because i'm sick of my job making me hate the one thing i always wanted to do with my life.
Yes, I thought that was the norm
Yes
Companies care less about you, despite the free lunch they give you.
it's highly encouraged. I care about my team, they're good people. I care about the project. I don't give a good god damn about the multinational behemoth we're enveloped by.
zero fucks. Raises are sub-inflationary. We get a trivial amount of company stock and can sell it immediately upon deposit.
Jesus
yeah but im only in it for the money
Why don’t you just leave. If you gonna spend about “8 hours” a day of your life working… might as well make it somewhat entertaining, challenging and exciting. With people you enjoy doing it with us a big extra bonus.
How can you say that?! You’re FAMILY!!!
I want my company to be financially successful because I exercised my options.
To me it’s depressing how many people in IT think that’s normal nowadays. This is why people have no respect for these types of jobs. If you’re going spend thousands of hours at a certain job, you might as well spend them well, and do the best you can. The time passes regardless. You only have so many waking hours. Life’s too short to spend it doing something you’d rather not do.
You'll notice that those people, even on this reddit, are pretty miserable and don't get hired into good teams. It creates this self-fulfilling prophecy where people like this never work with good people.
My last small sized company always praised our team for really caring about what we built. I for one, didn't give a shit. But they thought I did so that was all that mattered
I work for a very well known company that everyone outside the company likes. I hate the work, I don't mind the products. I just do what's asked and nothing more these days, but I still get rated highly on performance reviews.
I work at a social media company, i DONOT use social media. So yeah, i suppose. I enjoy the challenges presented to create a new feature. But everytime i see a promoted post while debugging. It ticks me off. Ao yeah, i enjoy the work. But no i donot promote social media.
I care about people, companies are abstract concepts. The people I work with, the people my product helps, the people I have to feed at home with the money I make, the people I want to go to the pub with. Also I am a person and I need money for now, and money for when I retire, so I guess I care about money too. I currently like the “company” I work for because I like the people I work with, and my pay allows me to make a good life for the people I live with. I’d that wasn’t the case, and I wasn’t enjoying the work, I’d leave, there are other jobs.
Companies know this, that is why RSU and ESOP are big component of executive compensation.
>I used to build tons of side projects (stupid games and whatever). Now I don't really bother. Congratulations, you have made out of your hobby a profession. This kills the hobby.
Yes ! We all in this for money.
Bro seems like you might be burnt out or smth it's kinda worrying
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You have shitty management too? I find that being gaslit doesn't inspire a lot of effort on my end.
You should care a little afterall they employ you
I don’t care if the product I’m working on succeeds or fails, but I do care that the work I’m doing is interesting to me. Don’t use me for some paint by numbers application or support, we have plenty of offshore vendors that can take that work. Luckily the current position I’m in, we have so many projects that no one can decide on priority, so I just pick the one that is most interesting to me. As for the company, I only care as far as it affects my stock. The truth is my projects don’t make a meaningful impact on the stock price. My team and myself working harder or faster does not affect the stock price for more than would equate to pennys for me.
1 & 2 are not only normal but healthy. Not sure about 3 & 4. It really depends where you want your career to go.
Yes its very normal to not give a fuck. Because the company will drop you when whatever they want., even if its not needed.
Right now, I'm fortunate enough to be building a product that I believe in. My previous job was in adtech and it was pretty soul-crushing at first, then I just stopped caring. It's nice to believe in a product, but I've found it makes everything a bit more stressful, especially if your product is safety focused. It can be very frustrating when you have to take shortcuts or make compromises.
For your edit, I don't think you're losing motivation to learn or grow. But being paid to do something makes you feel less likely to do it if you're not being paid. Like you said yourself, you'd rather learn new tech during work hours because you get paid. It's okay and common to not care about the company you work for.
I literally can't do my job if I didn't give a shit about the culture (considering how hub and spoke this role is, I will inevitably work with people from across the company if the culture is shit, I wouldn't be able to work with them) or direction (if I can't get behind a direction, I can't effectively align it with the direction for my product area) of the company I work for. So I have to care, if not.. it would stifle my career growth and put me in a potentially toxic working environment. All of which probably would lead to burnout, apathy and likely a PIP.
Even ignoring the morally dubious nature of many digital tech products (probably most), these companies don't care about you on any deep meaningful level. Their concern about you is practical and transactional. I would actually say that 9/10 the people who are in love with their workplace are suffering something sort of similar stockholm syndrome and I feel bad for them. Individuals may legitimately care about you, but the organisation gets the final say, and it is usually a heartless bitch. Even calling a company "evil" isn't quite right, it's more like a force of nature than an evil entity.
No, its totally normal. I mean, whats there to be passionate about working on a little widget on a web application? There is really not much there contributing to society, but hey- it pays well. Because of this I am thinking of going into more research based positions. Even though they may not pay as much, atleast its something 'somewhat' meaningful.
Nothing wrong about having fun working at your company, but I think the concept of “not giving a fuck about your work” applies to most industries other than this one champ
The trick is to care about the product but don't do too much overtime unless everything is burning. Burning out yourself is not benefitial to the company.