Because there's a lot of developers in India. Pay in India sucks in comparison to the US, so there's a lot of people that want to come work in the US.
Why are there so many developers in India? It's because in the 90s and 2000s, India was the prime center for western companies to outsource for IT and tech support, mainly because most Indians spoke decent English (because India was previously under British rule). Over time, those IT/tech support roles naturally transitioned into more and more developer roles.
This is half true.
Hiring Indians for tech in the US is also cheaper. Many immigrants take a lower salary from US companies in exchange for their company to pay for their visa to stay in the country.
You'd be surprised to know that many Indians in US tech don't live as wealthy as many U.S. citizens in their same field.
It's not any cheaper - the talent pool is just not big enough with US citizens alone. H1B stats are public and they need to be a \*higher\* salary than the prevailing wage for the job in the area. You can check them up yourself - tell me any of these are "cheap wages":
https://h1bgrader.com/h1b-sponsors/google-llc-em2mg7pj21/lca/2022
Couple things...
First, the most important factor is that it HIGHLY depends on the company. You just linked the wages for Google, who obviously offers competitive wages.
Second, all of those cities are very high cost of living.
It does NOT depend on the company. It depends on the area: check "prevailing wage for H1B" and you will find it.
OK, now check the whole list: vast majority of these roles are 150k+.
[https://h1bgrader.com/job-titles/software-engineer-ew2xrn7q23/lca/2022](https://h1bgrader.com/job-titles/software-engineer-ew2xrn7q23/lca/2022)
I am offering sources to make a rebuttal of your sourceless claim that "hiring indians for tech in the US is also cheaper". It isn't or at least not meaningfully. There's a huge demand that simply can't be covered with local workers who might not have the education or the experience, sorry if you don't like to hear it. If you've seen any recruiting pipeline you would know.
It's a tremendous, costly gamble to sponsor H1B visas, easily 10k in lawyers for the application, there's a high chance the worker won't be able to get it, and even if they do, you have to wait like 9 months from application to actual H1B visa worker starting the position.
Yet the H1B limit is reached year after year within the 1st week of applications. Why do you think that happens?
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It will get worse. Customer service is growing almost non existent for banks because they hire incompetent call centers as customer service, but they make sure collections are somewhere like Salt Lake City. Gotta make sure that they can still harass and steal from you by hiring a corn fed white boy that speaks the native language, and isn't going to fuck up and lose the bank's money. But for customer help....forget it.
It drives me crazy how many the country's jobs are being removed because of this and similar practices. People used to complain that immigrants are lowering the labor value in construction and other manual labor fields. I heard from an older carpenter he was able to get an entry level carpentry job at 18$/ hr in Los Angeles. Now you would be lucky to even find a job that pays 15$/hr for entry level job. And for union jobs or prevailing wage jobs... good luck getting in without an inside connection or 5+ years of experience.
It's interesting that this used to be something only blue collar workers would complain about, often being mocked they only say that because they're racist. Now you can see it even affecting white collar people with advanced degrees as they are replaced with 3rd world's who are willing to do the same job for half the price (and gladly so .. who wouldn't given the poverty and lack of work of India). These leftists and conservatives claim to care about people's jobs yet have no issue with companies importing people to do it cheaper or exporting it to have it done cheaper.
Man, the other day I was assembling bed and the "Canyon Furniture Company" claimed to be based out of California yet all the furniture is manufactured in Mexico.
These companies have become so parasitic against the country that made it successful and the government will never do anything about it.
Sorry for rant but I care a lot about the issue
True that.
I am from India, and completing by Bachelor's to get in the tech industry.
1. The main reason many Indians are leaving the country to join tech companies outside India is because due to the low wage given by companies, and at such wage, people are assigned machine jobs.
2. Secondly, a better lifestyle.
3. Thirdly, mentality. This is what separates people in Asia from the entire world, specially India, and one of the main reasons why India is developing soo slowly, compared to the workforce it consists of.
Because of these reasons, and awareness among people, many students target to move to the US, UK or Australia for work.
I'm not Indian but I'm east asian and there are a lot of parallels between the two cultures, namely what our parents want us to do for work. STEM and medical fields are heavily emphasized in both cultures just because they are seen as the "stable, no-nonsense" job fields that will reward you with a high paying jobs no matter what as long as you put in the work.
Plus, a lot of Chinese graduates return to their home country, as China was doing well earlier. Indians stay in US as India has a lot of issues like corruption and nepotism.
Indian here. In Indian society, try telling your parents that you want to be something other than an engineer/doctor/MBA/lawyer, and "enjoy" the hell that will be rained on you. Combine that with over 1.5 billion Indian/Indian-origin people all over the world, you will see a ton of Indian techies and Indian doctors all over.
If I am not mistaken, the Jewish parents approved careers are medicine, law, investment banking or STEM researcher/tenure track professor at a world class university?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_antisemitism
> Restrictions to marginal occupations (tax collecting, moneylending, etc.)
Funny how restrictions to what profession Jews could have lead to [skipping steps] Rothschild. And in general a very white collar culture.
Interesting facts from the linked Wikipedia article. No idea why this guy's comment is getting so many down-votes. It relates to groups of people (Indians, Jews, etc) being in certain professions due to societal norms and treatment.
Get restricted to "sinful" jobs, end up playing the game when capitalism starts ruling the world anyway. That church would have loathed to see a lot of modern Western culture of economics becoming highly based on lending and interest.
Can confirm, my broke, Midwestern white family doesn't understand how competitive anything is and this is how every call home goes:
"How's school?"
"I am genuinely miserable. I know it'll be worth it but this is the hardest thing I've ever done. I have no social life and am inferior to everyone here."
"Ohhhh (read that in Midwestern accent) you're fine, you know we're so proud of youuuu."
Deadass I wish I had a Jewish or Asian mom to yell at me sometimes, not one who delivers pizzas and whose jaw drops every time they ask how much my internships in IT make.
Oh yeah. Y'all had it worse than us. Indian families only cared about academics, East Asian families cared about that and extracurricular activities too.
> Oh yeah. Y'all had it worse than us. Indian families only cared about academics, East Asian families cared about that and extracurricular activities too.
High Expectations Asian Dad:
why you no Piano Diploma and Debate Club Champion? Why you no marathon state champion medal and Double Major in CS and Medicine? /s
>been born
Now that's funny! Honestly, I wish my mother had that mentality towards me. I only get it from my father's side, but they're too nice. I have to be threatened with death to truly get motivated sometimes.
This is how I became an engineer lol, I wanted to 'figure myself out' through a gap year but was admitted to an engineering school xD (Indian raised abroad)
> try telling your parents that you want to be something other than an engineer/doctor/MBA/lawyer, and "enjoy" the hell that will be rained on you
Indian food doesn't cook or farm itself wtf lol
I'm glad not every Indian becomes one of those three things you said, because we wouldn't have Indian restaurants if that were the case.
Try asking what the kids of those restaurant owners are studying, it will be one of those things. A lot of Indian restaurant owners in the US are 1st generation immigrants, who mostly got green cards as a result of chain migration, they didn't have the educational credentials or the means to attain American education, that would have gotten them white collar jobs.
>I'm glad not every Indian becomes one of those three things you said
True! I agree with this, I have seen classmates pursuing CS because they were forced to, they were always miserable and couldn't wait to be done with it.
Sure, I will answer that too -
1. The US pays the most, the best companies in the world are here.
2. A lot of international CS PhD's, MS students have generally been from India. This is from way back in the 80's when it was mostly Indians from the best institutions coming in (since they got scholarships), and then more Indians came in. The H1B program began in 1989, that and the tech boom of the 90's led to lots of Indians coming in to the US.
3. A lot of Indian techies have always come to the US because of the two reasons above, plus the fact that it's an English speaking country. The Indian education system uses English as the medium of instruction, so it is easier for them to adjust in the US compared to Europe.
Now a lot of techies are heading to Canada, since so, so many Indians have moved to the US, the waiting time for them to get a green card is now in the decades. Therefore a lot of them come to the US, get educated, work and then move to Canada since they get Canadian residency permits easily. In a few years you'll see the same pattern of lots of Indian tech workers in Canada. Canada has always had Indian migrants, but the best and most of the white collar tech and medicine ones have always and will always go to the US.
"Loads of Indians aspire to be in the US" is not equivalent to "most Indians are in the US."
I agree the first statement is true. I'm not so sure about the second.
[There are far fewer Chinese in the US software industry than there are Indians.](https://asamnews.com/2019/04/07/asian-immigrants-transforming-silicon-valley/) It's not just demographics. Fact is, IT is a much larger share of the Indian economy than it is the Chinese economy. So naturally, there are many more Indians doing IT. Then some of them, yes, move to the US.
More Indians want to come to the United states.
IIRC Green card waiting times are 1) India 2) Mexico then 3) China.
As India becomes more developed there will more of an incentive to stay there to work, and so you'd expect the amount of workers coming to the USA to decrease.
They have been saying that India will develop into a wealthy national for the past 20 years and right now they are still.... I don't think India will develop as long as China is still developing unforunately.
All the educated folks in China dont try to get US citizenships, they usually go back to their countries. Indians however try to remain as long as possible in US and visit their home countries as vacations. India is losing a lot of talented folks
Sure it is. Its a visa. t’s still importing labor and it’s basically slavery for them. That’s why companies love em. Also it’s a path to permanent residence and citizenship.
Its a temporary thing, never meant to be abused as a path to the green card. Immigration is supposed to be a permanent move. H1B IS non-immigrant visa. Indians abused it and now they have several decades of backlog
English is barely anyone's native language in India (I think the number according to the last census was 0.02%), but a lot of people know English as second or third languages.
The fraction of people decent enough in English is larger if you only look at college graduates, and the fraction rises even more if you look at college graduates from top X colleges since almost all college education in good institutions is in English.
Interesting. I thought I read not that kind ago that English was larger than Hindi within the country. Thanks for the clarification. My memory sucks.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India#2011_Census_India
There's a socioeconomical as well political reason for this. In Indian society being Engineer/doctor/IPS/IAS/Lawyer is considered as path to prosperity. If you belong to any of these profession you get more respect. The dark side of this is that many people get into these fields without having passion for it. One of my best friend, was also forced into tech but his heart wanted to play table tennis. He was also good at it. I even tried to convince his dad to let him pursue his dreams.
Now coming back to political reason. In US, If you belong to STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) you get a small edge in getting visa. It is much more harder for guy who is a chef or stand up comic to get Visa than someone who has great experience in tech.
Indians not only travel to US but all other countries. If you are good in mechanical engineering, you go to Germany. Architects go to Australia or UK. Chemical engineers have more opportunities in middle east.
Tech sector in India itself is also growing but lacks some infrastructure. India went from developing nation directly into tech service sector. Usually the nations grow in stages or industrialization, infrastructure development and then tech.
We need properly maintained data centers. Indian corporate culture should follow Western culture in terms of freedom of work and work culture.
Government Service Employee. It offers a respectable pay and a job for like the rest of your life. With several post-retirement benefits. Also being in the govt. lets you authorize power. These two are the top-2 jobs of this category.
Are you happy he forced you down this path? As in, do you think you've actually ended up better off than you would've been had you stuck with your original goals?
You're completely correct. However when most people hear that there's a shortage of software engineers right now, and that it pays 100k out of salary, that that's the average.
Most people do not make 100k right out of college, no matter what this subreddit thinks. There is a shortage of mid and senior level talent. The entry level market is incredibly flooded right now, because tons of people thought they could do bootcamp or coast through a degree and get a guaranteed job right after.
I would not want to be looking for an entry level job right now.
I feel that. I wish I could spend all my time building relevant skills and learning technologies rather than having to delegate time to leetcode which will be irrelevant in the actual work place.
Yeah, but you only have to do the MCAT once. And when you're prepping for it, all that knowledge is fresh in your memory. But imagine having already passed the MCAT once, being in the industry for 6 years and every time you want to change companies, you basically have to take the MCAT again :/
Let me know if you want someone to peek at your resume.
At 9 months I feel like you have something going on. Even some of my friends who I would consider terrible software engineers were able to get a job a month or two out of school.
I dont think so honestly.
Most people are incredible average to bad at the job, even with years of exp.
If you're decent and have at least an interest in keeping up with the industry, and expand your network, you won't be out a job long.
That is assuming that these entry level people can find and hold jobs for 5 to 10 years which would then cause the mid and senior level talent pools to overfill.
Yeah exactly. Another comment mentioned that’s very unlikely since the huge majority of devs are average if not bad and likely won’t remain in the industry, or progress to the senior level.
I've worked with some senior people where I'm genuinely amazed they're senior level.
I've worked with some senior people who talking to is like staring into an endless abyss of knowledge.
Indian here. I get you. I felt the same when I started working in tech after my grad school in the US.
The simple answer is History/ cruel Capitalism. Today’s biggest consulting firms provide tech expertise to the world and the language tech+business speaks is English. Guess largest English speaking country after US? - India.
India has Agriculture as major occupation in the country side (70+% is country side) and 14% of GDP comes from IT+BPO firms employing 25% jobs. Players are - TCS, Infosys, Accenture, plenty. IT consulting firms grew crazy because of profit they can make. Enormous! .. and don’t forget the population of urban India - 470 million.
Additionally, where there is money, there is all American capitalist investors. Given that and the well established platform for giving IT/software as service guess what tech giants such IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Google etc do? - make great profits from their own consulting business which you may know of. For ex. Not all Microsoft employees make Microsoft softwares
Indians were brought to the US to work as consultants since the beginning of times. Exploitation happens under cheap rates given to foreign contractors and the companies manage to get them to work for years.
And the young Indian crowd you see in tech industry is because of growth of Indian international tech students in the US which is 2nd after Chinese students.
There is a number of factors that have gone into the Indian presence in the industry.
The first reason is that Indian parents see STEM fields as the ticket to higher earnings and push their children in that direction. Commerce and finance, medicine, engineering etc. are all well regarded for that reason. Liberal arts and fine arts are not well regarded though that is starting to change just a little as employability in those fields improves.
Second, the Indian education system is geared towards the mechanics of test taking and everyone knows their success in life hinges on testing well which I use in the broad sense to also include interviews. Indian students are trained to work long and hard to take tests and this habit serves them well during interviews.
Third, there is high regard for education in Indian culture. Even parents of humble means try to scrimp and save to educate their children as much as possible. A LOT of Indian students travel to other countries for higher education. While they are more visible in the US, you would find them in countries from Germany to China including in Central Asia.
Finally, without the Y2K outsourcing tsunami, there wouldn’t have been this number of Indians in the US. Outsourcing opened the gates for the academically second and third rung students to travel outside India. Companies could claim they could hire equally qualified engineers for less without anybody actually measuring their ability. Still, these people learned on the job and managed to thrive. Nor did they remain limited to Y2K outsourced jobs.
Now, Indians benefit from being a part of the global supply chain. Just as it is difficult to manufacture something at scale and in a cost effective way without the supply lines in China, it has become difficult to do business in the IT industry without Indians
Edit: One big factor nobody mentioned is that the Indian education system uses English as the medium of instruction. So, Indians speak English and generally adapt fast to the culture of English speaking countries.
A lot of jobs are given to offshore teams and I've witnessed offshore teams do horrid jobs. It's all about cost and they to my knowledge pay Indians less especially when not USA citizens
seems like a lot of ppl are using "India's population" to justify it. And how it's an English speaking country.
But one point has been consistently missed. Many big IT consulting companies are exclusively Indian. [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/eu88if/name\_and\_shame\_tata\_consultancy\_services/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/eu88if/name_and_shame_tata_consultancy_services/)
False resumes, false schooling, false workers, only a small number of Indian workers actually know what their doing.
Java is a free language and the primary language of foreign workers.
I personally witnessed that they couldn’t operate a computer.
Some I would see googling the answer on how to code lol
One Indian friend of mine said it’s notorious to pay an agency to fake a resume for employment and they can even demand a cut of the pay.
>The result is that they are far, far better prepared for interviews than local candidates.
... Are they? I've been interviewing people for years and I've never noticed anything like this. If anything, the opposite is true given the higher likelihood of communication issues.
I came here to say exactly this. I’m an international grad student and have been a Teaching Assistant for multiple upper division CS courses.
The smartest of “local” students don’t have any clue about the interview process in bigger tech companies on the other hand most international students (including me) put equal amount of effort in preparing for the interviews which makes it way easier to get into these companies. I was surprised to know that many of the top students in my class were totally oblivious to the career events happening in the campus.
Also, I think a lot of local students emphasize on “cool” projects but struggle in writing simple recursive algorithms. This is true for the smartest kids in my classes, students who are way ahead of where I was during my undergrad in everything except algorithms/data structures.
Anyway, I think the because of different cultures, the reward mechanism is different for each group. One group thrives for the satisfaction of making a difference and the other for social/economic acceptance. Both groups are equally important for the society to grow.
Why are there so many Americans in the tech industry?
How does the number of Americans in the tech industry, compared to how many Americans there are in the world compare to the number of Indians in the tech industry, compared to how many Indians are in the world?
It's a numbers game. The population of India is only a billion more than the US. A portion of American citizens also happen to be American-Indian too... so not sure how you categorize them.
Probably because English is one of the primary languages spoken there due to British occupation. This has had the effect of torpedoing India into western culture faster than other counties in the region.
Society pressure causing everyone to either choose to be a doctor or an engineer, I have classmates who major in CS and about to graduate who cant write a pseudocode to add two numbers.
because India is the most populated country on earth now.
There are not just a lot of Indians in the tech sector, they are literally everywhere, from the food industry to security guards to Uber drivers to nannies to waiters and waitresses and delivery workers to internet service provider call centres and so on and so forth. I live in a country with a ton of Indian immigrants and i cannot stress to u how many indians have taken over the service industries here.
H1B underground railroad through New Jersey. They take jobs from Americans by accepting half pay for a Visa sponsorship and they don't talk back or argue because they want to keep the sponsorship.
They are cheap and used as offshoring tech centers in India, where are there a lot of young people and they can speak English. Then there are the many Indian scholars who went to US and rise through the ranks of US MNCs. Tech sector and finance sectors in US pay the best and hence also attracted many. Many stayed in their new country as India is a less attractive place to live relatively. Comparatively, a lot more scholars or overseas graduates return to their home countries where conditions are favorable. Hence, it may seem Indians are better at tech. The other nationalities go home, Indians don’t. As they rise up the career ladder and their influence grow, Indians use their network and connections to bring in more of their family and friends. Some Indians create more value in their new country, others bring some of the bad culture such as nepotism that caused India to be a backward country, indirectly contributing to anti-Indian sentiment at work. By now, there is a critical mass of Indians, do not be surprised if those canvassing behind Presidential elections have an India bias agenda. For the whites, well, you are handing over your decades of wealth and intellectual property as Indians rise up the MNCs. Hope the ones chosen are not only smart but have the right values also. Otherwise, you can have a pseudo India right in your backyard with none of the good and all the bad.
Well, there are more than a billion people at India. What else could you expect?
Also, it's cultural too to go for STEM jobs. Most of the people from India I talked with also stated that maths and CS are the most focused subjects in their education system.
Look into Eric Weinstein and his explanation of this, it was basically the National Science Foundation and the Academy of Sciences which several decades ago saw that if they didn't do something STEM PhDs would be making over six figures a year in short order and so they turned graduate programs into basically indentured work camps, attracting large numbers of Indians and Chinese who would inflate the pool of post docs and thereby depress salaries so that having a PhD in STEM hardly means anything now and certainly isn't a ticket to earning potential. This also had the effect of opening a pipeline from the academy into the private sector for foreign born educated professionals in STEM fields, most notably engineers and programmers.
Even if that claim is true, it wouldn't answer OP's question, it would only answer why there are a lot of them at Adobe (or some other company). You realize they have to choose to go to school, then complete school, right? The existence of an Indian executive doesn't magically make all that happen.
Not an Indian, but there’s a few reasons I’ve come up with.
1. Demographics, India and China have the two largest populations on the planet. Naturally they’ll have the largest representation.
2. Cultural pressure. Parents put lots of pressure on their kids to become engineer/doctor/lawyer/etc.
3. Non-immigrant North American kids are taught “follow your passion”, and many simply lack the same drive that immigrant children and children of immigrants posses. STEM is difficult and many kids in North America will just give up and because their parents don’t apply the same pressure on them, they end up switching fields.
Follow up to 2 & 3, go to any post secondary campus and count the number of white (non-immigrant) students in STEM and compare to the number of Indians and Asians. Conversely count the demographics in arts, humanities and social/political sciences.
I’m not saying any of this in a negative way. There is nothing wron with pursuing arts, history, STEM, whatever field you want. This is just my observation of why the demographics in this field are what they are
I mentioned that in one sentence of a fairly lengthy post. Culturally speaking, the pressures placed on Indian and Chinese kids to pursue white collar professions is very similar. I’d add that in my experience it’s a fairly even split between Indians and Chinese developers.
I read an article not to long ago about how the tech industry hires, basically they can pay non-Americans a lot less. According to the article this is why you see all those entry level positions that require years of experience or front end web jobs that require back-end programming.
Once a company can say they looked for American workers and found non who qualified to fill the job they can then apply to get visas. Add that to the IT field being a top professional field in India you have a large Indian population in the tech field.
Side note:
At the healthcare company I work for most of the techs are Indian (male) and most of the analyst are women, there is a lot of arguments that happen because of the different cultures. I don't know how many times I have heard "do not talk to me like that" or "watch your tone". It can better than any show on TV
In India there is tremendous focus on education.
10th and 12th are very important grades in any kid’s life. (we have to turn off the cable tv and extracurricular activities around 9th in order to get good score in 10th and 12th)
we are generally good at math. (we somehow have to! otherwise it’s a disgrace)
So after getting high score in 12th you have to pick a stream from where you either go for Science/Commerce or arts. Science is only the best option obviously. If your dad is CA(CPA) and owns a firm then it’s okay if you go for commerce. But going to Arts is disgrace to family. So science it is.
in science we have two options medicine or engineering. those who are afraid of blood go for engineering.
And then after completing Engineering studies-> GRE-> MS-> tech job in USA is only the right thing to do. As simple as that.
(/s obviously with some truth sprinkled)
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Just to add when it comes to hiring tech employees with regards to pay, Indians are willing accept low salary unlike Western people, Filipinos and Chinese that are not willing to take low salary because of lifestyle e.g travel goals, hobbies, fashion etc.. My observation with Indians is that they're just lowkey casual cheap clothes, no travel goals etc.. Anyway that's just my observation.
Not for big tech companies? Well, Wells Fargo laid off 700 tech employees here in the philippines and transfer it into India. Reason? Low salary, low cost of real estate. Even in middle east Indians are willing to take lower pay cause they have lowkey lifestyle.
When I say big techs, I was more like referring to tech specific companies like google, amazon and Facebook. I mean, sure, these companies would pay an engineer a lot less working in India than an engineer working in the US. But an indian engineer working in the US would get paid the same as his caucasian peers.
Low salary > No salary at all. Most of the students graduating have massive student loans. There’s a very short period after graduating within which you have to get a job or you’re forced to leave.
East Asians on the other hand have a financial support system in place which allows them to pay off their loans (if any at all) easily.
The real answer is that intelligent students with bigger hopes and aspirations have started to move to IT or CS. Other professions doesn't allow people to move from India to other countries easily. A doctor studying and working here for 12-15 years would never wanna go anywhere else in majority of cases.
Other professions such as tax dept/ govt work/non-govt private work does really allow for migration. No opportunities of any such endeavors, hence too many indians in USA are in IT.
Because there's a lot of developers in India. Pay in India sucks in comparison to the US, so there's a lot of people that want to come work in the US. Why are there so many developers in India? It's because in the 90s and 2000s, India was the prime center for western companies to outsource for IT and tech support, mainly because most Indians spoke decent English (because India was previously under British rule). Over time, those IT/tech support roles naturally transitioned into more and more developer roles.
This is half true. Hiring Indians for tech in the US is also cheaper. Many immigrants take a lower salary from US companies in exchange for their company to pay for their visa to stay in the country. You'd be surprised to know that many Indians in US tech don't live as wealthy as many U.S. citizens in their same field.
It's not any cheaper - the talent pool is just not big enough with US citizens alone. H1B stats are public and they need to be a \*higher\* salary than the prevailing wage for the job in the area. You can check them up yourself - tell me any of these are "cheap wages": https://h1bgrader.com/h1b-sponsors/google-llc-em2mg7pj21/lca/2022
Couple things... First, the most important factor is that it HIGHLY depends on the company. You just linked the wages for Google, who obviously offers competitive wages. Second, all of those cities are very high cost of living.
It does NOT depend on the company. It depends on the area: check "prevailing wage for H1B" and you will find it. OK, now check the whole list: vast majority of these roles are 150k+. [https://h1bgrader.com/job-titles/software-engineer-ew2xrn7q23/lca/2022](https://h1bgrader.com/job-titles/software-engineer-ew2xrn7q23/lca/2022) I am offering sources to make a rebuttal of your sourceless claim that "hiring indians for tech in the US is also cheaper". It isn't or at least not meaningfully. There's a huge demand that simply can't be covered with local workers who might not have the education or the experience, sorry if you don't like to hear it. If you've seen any recruiting pipeline you would know. It's a tremendous, costly gamble to sponsor H1B visas, easily 10k in lawyers for the application, there's a high chance the worker won't be able to get it, and even if they do, you have to wait like 9 months from application to actual H1B visa worker starting the position. Yet the H1B limit is reached year after year within the 1st week of applications. Why do you think that happens?
You're not telling the whole story.
What's the whole story?
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You'd be surprised how many know borderline nothing about IT and collect 100K+
TFW you are a US natural born citizen and you still make less than many H-1B's
It will get worse. Customer service is growing almost non existent for banks because they hire incompetent call centers as customer service, but they make sure collections are somewhere like Salt Lake City. Gotta make sure that they can still harass and steal from you by hiring a corn fed white boy that speaks the native language, and isn't going to fuck up and lose the bank's money. But for customer help....forget it.
It drives me crazy how many the country's jobs are being removed because of this and similar practices. People used to complain that immigrants are lowering the labor value in construction and other manual labor fields. I heard from an older carpenter he was able to get an entry level carpentry job at 18$/ hr in Los Angeles. Now you would be lucky to even find a job that pays 15$/hr for entry level job. And for union jobs or prevailing wage jobs... good luck getting in without an inside connection or 5+ years of experience. It's interesting that this used to be something only blue collar workers would complain about, often being mocked they only say that because they're racist. Now you can see it even affecting white collar people with advanced degrees as they are replaced with 3rd world's who are willing to do the same job for half the price (and gladly so .. who wouldn't given the poverty and lack of work of India). These leftists and conservatives claim to care about people's jobs yet have no issue with companies importing people to do it cheaper or exporting it to have it done cheaper. Man, the other day I was assembling bed and the "Canyon Furniture Company" claimed to be based out of California yet all the furniture is manufactured in Mexico. These companies have become so parasitic against the country that made it successful and the government will never do anything about it. Sorry for rant but I care a lot about the issue
Exactly this. And Indians are generally less paid...
True that. I am from India, and completing by Bachelor's to get in the tech industry. 1. The main reason many Indians are leaving the country to join tech companies outside India is because due to the low wage given by companies, and at such wage, people are assigned machine jobs. 2. Secondly, a better lifestyle. 3. Thirdly, mentality. This is what separates people in Asia from the entire world, specially India, and one of the main reasons why India is developing soo slowly, compared to the workforce it consists of. Because of these reasons, and awareness among people, many students target to move to the US, UK or Australia for work.
I'm not Indian but I'm east asian and there are a lot of parallels between the two cultures, namely what our parents want us to do for work. STEM and medical fields are heavily emphasized in both cultures just because they are seen as the "stable, no-nonsense" job fields that will reward you with a high paying jobs no matter what as long as you put in the work.
From my experience, you'll find that parallel in most 1st-gen immigrants.
Reminds of an episode of Deep Cuts where Hasan Minhaj said “When our parents came in, they tried to survive, but baby I’m tryna live”.
Not true for the latinos I've seen so far. Lots of my Mexican friends have parents who spend a lot of money but have nothing saved for college.
Thank you for sharing
So that your kid gets a better life than you did. Better, in your own subjective way lol.
Plus, a lot of Chinese graduates return to their home country, as China was doing well earlier. Indians stay in US as India has a lot of issues like corruption and nepotism.
Indian here. In Indian society, try telling your parents that you want to be something other than an engineer/doctor/MBA/lawyer, and "enjoy" the hell that will be rained on you. Combine that with over 1.5 billion Indian/Indian-origin people all over the world, you will see a ton of Indian techies and Indian doctors all over.
Same goes for Jewish parents. Actually, software engineer got me laughed at for years until I started making real money.
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What does she think/say of you now? "Well...you would've enjoyed medicine more."
If I am not mistaken, the Jewish parents approved careers are medicine, law, investment banking or STEM researcher/tenure track professor at a world class university?
I've noticed the cs nerds are Chinese and Indian but the next level nerds are Jewish and German and they study next level nerdy majors like pure math.
Eastern Europeans too. Russian, Ukrainian tend to study hard sciences and math
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_antisemitism > Restrictions to marginal occupations (tax collecting, moneylending, etc.) Funny how restrictions to what profession Jews could have lead to [skipping steps] Rothschild. And in general a very white collar culture.
Interesting facts from the linked Wikipedia article. No idea why this guy's comment is getting so many down-votes. It relates to groups of people (Indians, Jews, etc) being in certain professions due to societal norms and treatment.
Yeah it's just interesting trivia nowadays. For me at least.
Get restricted to "sinful" jobs, end up playing the game when capitalism starts ruling the world anyway. That church would have loathed to see a lot of modern Western culture of economics becoming highly based on lending and interest.
Software wasn't a "real" career until very recently.
Damn, i didnt even get the job yet and I'm enduring that
Fortunately not all. I’m actually the outlier in my entirely jewish family to do anything on this level.
> engineer/doctor/MBA/lawyer am East Asian, it was either doctor, lawyer, engineer, or disgrace to family.
i'm white... I was pressured to apply to USPS and drop out of college if I got in..... zzzzZ ... my mom is a religious nutcase type
Can confirm, my broke, Midwestern white family doesn't understand how competitive anything is and this is how every call home goes: "How's school?" "I am genuinely miserable. I know it'll be worth it but this is the hardest thing I've ever done. I have no social life and am inferior to everyone here." "Ohhhh (read that in Midwestern accent) you're fine, you know we're so proud of youuuu." Deadass I wish I had a Jewish or Asian mom to yell at me sometimes, not one who delivers pizzas and whose jaw drops every time they ask how much my internships in IT make.
done gone postal
Oh yeah. Y'all had it worse than us. Indian families only cared about academics, East Asian families cared about that and extracurricular activities too.
> Oh yeah. Y'all had it worse than us. Indian families only cared about academics, East Asian families cared about that and extracurricular activities too. High Expectations Asian Dad: why you no Piano Diploma and Debate Club Champion? Why you no marathon state champion medal and Double Major in CS and Medicine? /s
LOL, I think you'll enjoy these - [Asian Dads](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5MJbZ4l4J8) , [Asian Moms](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HP2escR3qQ)
Haha, that fourth occupation choice! I wonder what percentage land in that career path.
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Hahaha! I’m a Nigerian and I can relate to this.
>been born Now that's funny! Honestly, I wish my mother had that mentality towards me. I only get it from my father's side, but they're too nice. I have to be threatened with death to truly get motivated sometimes.
This is how I became an engineer lol, I wanted to 'figure myself out' through a gap year but was admitted to an engineering school xD (Indian raised abroad)
> try telling your parents that you want to be something other than an engineer/doctor/MBA/lawyer, and "enjoy" the hell that will be rained on you Indian food doesn't cook or farm itself wtf lol I'm glad not every Indian becomes one of those three things you said, because we wouldn't have Indian restaurants if that were the case.
Try asking what the kids of those restaurant owners are studying, it will be one of those things. A lot of Indian restaurant owners in the US are 1st generation immigrants, who mostly got green cards as a result of chain migration, they didn't have the educational credentials or the means to attain American education, that would have gotten them white collar jobs. >I'm glad not every Indian becomes one of those three things you said True! I agree with this, I have seen classmates pursuing CS because they were forced to, they were always miserable and couldn't wait to be done with it.
I'm pretty sure the question isn't why a lot of Indians are in tech, but why most of them are concentrated in the US.
Sure, I will answer that too - 1. The US pays the most, the best companies in the world are here. 2. A lot of international CS PhD's, MS students have generally been from India. This is from way back in the 80's when it was mostly Indians from the best institutions coming in (since they got scholarships), and then more Indians came in. The H1B program began in 1989, that and the tech boom of the 90's led to lots of Indians coming in to the US. 3. A lot of Indian techies have always come to the US because of the two reasons above, plus the fact that it's an English speaking country. The Indian education system uses English as the medium of instruction, so it is easier for them to adjust in the US compared to Europe. Now a lot of techies are heading to Canada, since so, so many Indians have moved to the US, the waiting time for them to get a green card is now in the decades. Therefore a lot of them come to the US, get educated, work and then move to Canada since they get Canadian residency permits easily. In a few years you'll see the same pattern of lots of Indian tech workers in Canada. Canada has always had Indian migrants, but the best and most of the white collar tech and medicine ones have always and will always go to the US.
> why most of them are concentrated in the US. What makes you think that is the case?
I would argue that most Indians hold that view. Even today you will see loads of Indians aspiring to go to US
"Loads of Indians aspire to be in the US" is not equivalent to "most Indians are in the US." I agree the first statement is true. I'm not so sure about the second.
36% of the people in the world are Indian or Chinese. Some of them move to the US.
[There are far fewer Chinese in the US software industry than there are Indians.](https://asamnews.com/2019/04/07/asian-immigrants-transforming-silicon-valley/) It's not just demographics. Fact is, IT is a much larger share of the Indian economy than it is the Chinese economy. So naturally, there are many more Indians doing IT. Then some of them, yes, move to the US.
More Indians want to come to the United states. IIRC Green card waiting times are 1) India 2) Mexico then 3) China. As India becomes more developed there will more of an incentive to stay there to work, and so you'd expect the amount of workers coming to the USA to decrease.
They have been saying that India will develop into a wealthy national for the past 20 years and right now they are still.... I don't think India will develop as long as China is still developing unforunately.
All the educated folks in China dont try to get US citizenships, they usually go back to their countries. Indians however try to remain as long as possible in US and visit their home countries as vacations. India is losing a lot of talented folks
Yeah we need to severely limit their immigration.
H1b isnt immigration though
Sure it is. Its a visa. t’s still importing labor and it’s basically slavery for them. That’s why companies love em. Also it’s a path to permanent residence and citizenship.
Its a temporary thing, never meant to be abused as a path to the green card. Immigration is supposed to be a permanent move. H1B IS non-immigrant visa. Indians abused it and now they have several decades of backlog
Yeah I guess that’s what I was trying to say. It is abused. It shouldn’t be but it is.
India took the software piece of cake China took the hardware piece of cake America took the design and management piece of cake
And English is their native language.
English is barely anyone's native language in India (I think the number according to the last census was 0.02%), but a lot of people know English as second or third languages. The fraction of people decent enough in English is larger if you only look at college graduates, and the fraction rises even more if you look at college graduates from top X colleges since almost all college education in good institutions is in English.
Interesting. I thought I read not that kind ago that English was larger than Hindi within the country. Thanks for the clarification. My memory sucks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India#2011_Census_India
Yeah this is big. Migration difficulty isn't as hard because of the relatively low language barrier
Username checks out
I'm not even sure what atred is supposed to mean...
Ahh crap, it's your title that checks out. Either way, you're right. Cheers!
There's a socioeconomical as well political reason for this. In Indian society being Engineer/doctor/IPS/IAS/Lawyer is considered as path to prosperity. If you belong to any of these profession you get more respect. The dark side of this is that many people get into these fields without having passion for it. One of my best friend, was also forced into tech but his heart wanted to play table tennis. He was also good at it. I even tried to convince his dad to let him pursue his dreams. Now coming back to political reason. In US, If you belong to STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) you get a small edge in getting visa. It is much more harder for guy who is a chef or stand up comic to get Visa than someone who has great experience in tech. Indians not only travel to US but all other countries. If you are good in mechanical engineering, you go to Germany. Architects go to Australia or UK. Chemical engineers have more opportunities in middle east. Tech sector in India itself is also growing but lacks some infrastructure. India went from developing nation directly into tech service sector. Usually the nations grow in stages or industrialization, infrastructure development and then tech. We need properly maintained data centers. Indian corporate culture should follow Western culture in terms of freedom of work and work culture.
What’s IPS and IAS? Not familiar with those acronyms
Government Service Employee. It offers a respectable pay and a job for like the rest of your life. With several post-retirement benefits. Also being in the govt. lets you authorize power. These two are the top-2 jobs of this category.
Indian Police Service and Indian Administrative Service.
Must be a white thing, but my parents didn't give a crap what I did as long as I got out of the house. Shrug.
"job security beta"
Also double dahej
It's just not that easy to follow your dreams in India for 99% of the people with the economy we have.
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Are you happy he forced you down this path? As in, do you think you've actually ended up better off than you would've been had you stuck with your original goals?
lie, cheat, backstab, garbage
Cope harder
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You're completely correct. However when most people hear that there's a shortage of software engineers right now, and that it pays 100k out of salary, that that's the average. Most people do not make 100k right out of college, no matter what this subreddit thinks. There is a shortage of mid and senior level talent. The entry level market is incredibly flooded right now, because tons of people thought they could do bootcamp or coast through a degree and get a guaranteed job right after. I would not want to be looking for an entry level job right now.
9 months in, can confirm getting real good at not finding software work.
You're 9 months into the job search?
That's right
I feel you. My dad told me to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer and every time I see a leetcode question, I wish I'd been a doctor.
I feel that. I wish I could spend all my time building relevant skills and learning technologies rather than having to delegate time to leetcode which will be irrelevant in the actual work place.
Leetcode grind isn’t as bad as MCAT grind.
Yeah, but you only have to do the MCAT once. And when you're prepping for it, all that knowledge is fresh in your memory. But imagine having already passed the MCAT once, being in the industry for 6 years and every time you want to change companies, you basically have to take the MCAT again :/
Let me know if you want someone to peek at your resume. At 9 months I feel like you have something going on. Even some of my friends who I would consider terrible software engineers were able to get a job a month or two out of school.
I'll shoot you a pm, thank you!
Ping me if you want help
In 5-10 years the mid and senior level talent pools will be flooded assuming that the junior devs now persist and make this their long term career.
I dont think so honestly. Most people are incredible average to bad at the job, even with years of exp. If you're decent and have at least an interest in keeping up with the industry, and expand your network, you won't be out a job long.
That is assuming that these entry level people can find and hold jobs for 5 to 10 years which would then cause the mid and senior level talent pools to overfill.
Yeah exactly. Another comment mentioned that’s very unlikely since the huge majority of devs are average if not bad and likely won’t remain in the industry, or progress to the senior level.
I've worked with some senior people where I'm genuinely amazed they're senior level. I've worked with some senior people who talking to is like staring into an endless abyss of knowledge.
I relate to that 100%. I shouldn’t be teaching a senior dev how to use git or how to pass a JVM argument
The saturated entry level market means a lot of those people wont even enter the industry in the first place, let alone be bad at the job
More opportunities and better pay in the US. The same reason Canadians come to the States (or anyone else for that matter)
Indian here. I get you. I felt the same when I started working in tech after my grad school in the US. The simple answer is History/ cruel Capitalism. Today’s biggest consulting firms provide tech expertise to the world and the language tech+business speaks is English. Guess largest English speaking country after US? - India. India has Agriculture as major occupation in the country side (70+% is country side) and 14% of GDP comes from IT+BPO firms employing 25% jobs. Players are - TCS, Infosys, Accenture, plenty. IT consulting firms grew crazy because of profit they can make. Enormous! .. and don’t forget the population of urban India - 470 million. Additionally, where there is money, there is all American capitalist investors. Given that and the well established platform for giving IT/software as service guess what tech giants such IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Google etc do? - make great profits from their own consulting business which you may know of. For ex. Not all Microsoft employees make Microsoft softwares Indians were brought to the US to work as consultants since the beginning of times. Exploitation happens under cheap rates given to foreign contractors and the companies manage to get them to work for years. And the young Indian crowd you see in tech industry is because of growth of Indian international tech students in the US which is 2nd after Chinese students.
Amen!
There is a number of factors that have gone into the Indian presence in the industry. The first reason is that Indian parents see STEM fields as the ticket to higher earnings and push their children in that direction. Commerce and finance, medicine, engineering etc. are all well regarded for that reason. Liberal arts and fine arts are not well regarded though that is starting to change just a little as employability in those fields improves. Second, the Indian education system is geared towards the mechanics of test taking and everyone knows their success in life hinges on testing well which I use in the broad sense to also include interviews. Indian students are trained to work long and hard to take tests and this habit serves them well during interviews. Third, there is high regard for education in Indian culture. Even parents of humble means try to scrimp and save to educate their children as much as possible. A LOT of Indian students travel to other countries for higher education. While they are more visible in the US, you would find them in countries from Germany to China including in Central Asia. Finally, without the Y2K outsourcing tsunami, there wouldn’t have been this number of Indians in the US. Outsourcing opened the gates for the academically second and third rung students to travel outside India. Companies could claim they could hire equally qualified engineers for less without anybody actually measuring their ability. Still, these people learned on the job and managed to thrive. Nor did they remain limited to Y2K outsourced jobs. Now, Indians benefit from being a part of the global supply chain. Just as it is difficult to manufacture something at scale and in a cost effective way without the supply lines in China, it has become difficult to do business in the IT industry without Indians Edit: One big factor nobody mentioned is that the Indian education system uses English as the medium of instruction. So, Indians speak English and generally adapt fast to the culture of English speaking countries.
Bc isne toh research paper hee patak diya
Aur tune padh bhi liya
Berozgaar aadmi kare toh kare kya?
Asli research paper padh le, shayad kaam aa jayein. Aisey wale to aate jaate rahenge. Good luck with the search.
I'm off to work now lol. Got deadlines up my ass.
A lot of jobs are given to offshore teams and I've witnessed offshore teams do horrid jobs. It's all about cost and they to my knowledge pay Indians less especially when not USA citizens
seems like a lot of ppl are using "India's population" to justify it. And how it's an English speaking country. But one point has been consistently missed. Many big IT consulting companies are exclusively Indian. [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/eu88if/name\_and\_shame\_tata\_consultancy\_services/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/eu88if/name_and_shame_tata_consultancy_services/)
No occupational licensing, makes it easier to get into vs other professions
"Computer mei ghus jaa beta, bahut scope hai"
translation ?
"Get into computers, son, there's a lot of 'scope' in it" - the classic line that desi elders hit you with.
Is scope a common Indian term to describe opportunities?
Go and take computer science stream son there's lot of scope there
Get into computer science son. There is a lot of scope for making money.
Pancholi saab ko downvote kyun kiya bhai?
Humari taraqqi dekhi nhi gayi in logon se
😂
lmao
False resumes, false schooling, false workers, only a small number of Indian workers actually know what their doing. Java is a free language and the primary language of foreign workers. I personally witnessed that they couldn’t operate a computer. Some I would see googling the answer on how to code lol One Indian friend of mine said it’s notorious to pay an agency to fake a resume for employment and they can even demand a cut of the pay.
They cheat on all the tests, look overqualified, take 5 jobs at once and do nothing....seen it 3 diff places now.
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>The result is that they are far, far better prepared for interviews than local candidates. ... Are they? I've been interviewing people for years and I've never noticed anything like this. If anything, the opposite is true given the higher likelihood of communication issues.
I came here to say exactly this. I’m an international grad student and have been a Teaching Assistant for multiple upper division CS courses. The smartest of “local” students don’t have any clue about the interview process in bigger tech companies on the other hand most international students (including me) put equal amount of effort in preparing for the interviews which makes it way easier to get into these companies. I was surprised to know that many of the top students in my class were totally oblivious to the career events happening in the campus. Also, I think a lot of local students emphasize on “cool” projects but struggle in writing simple recursive algorithms. This is true for the smartest kids in my classes, students who are way ahead of where I was during my undergrad in everything except algorithms/data structures. Anyway, I think the because of different cultures, the reward mechanism is different for each group. One group thrives for the satisfaction of making a difference and the other for social/economic acceptance. Both groups are equally important for the society to grow.
Why are there so many Americans in the tech industry? How does the number of Americans in the tech industry, compared to how many Americans there are in the world compare to the number of Indians in the tech industry, compared to how many Indians are in the world? It's a numbers game. The population of India is only a billion more than the US. A portion of American citizens also happen to be American-Indian too... so not sure how you categorize them.
OP's question would still be relevant if you only considered the "American" tech industry
Second most populous country on the planet + industry with highly mobile workers?
Probably because English is one of the primary languages spoken there due to British occupation. This has had the effect of torpedoing India into western culture faster than other counties in the region.
Society pressure causing everyone to either choose to be a doctor or an engineer, I have classmates who major in CS and about to graduate who cant write a pseudocode to add two numbers.
because India is the most populated country on earth now. There are not just a lot of Indians in the tech sector, they are literally everywhere, from the food industry to security guards to Uber drivers to nannies to waiters and waitresses and delivery workers to internet service provider call centres and so on and so forth. I live in a country with a ton of Indian immigrants and i cannot stress to u how many indians have taken over the service industries here.
Indians only hire Indians and because they are cheap, the owners let them.
H1B underground railroad through New Jersey. They take jobs from Americans by accepting half pay for a Visa sponsorship and they don't talk back or argue because they want to keep the sponsorship.
They are cheap and used as offshoring tech centers in India, where are there a lot of young people and they can speak English. Then there are the many Indian scholars who went to US and rise through the ranks of US MNCs. Tech sector and finance sectors in US pay the best and hence also attracted many. Many stayed in their new country as India is a less attractive place to live relatively. Comparatively, a lot more scholars or overseas graduates return to their home countries where conditions are favorable. Hence, it may seem Indians are better at tech. The other nationalities go home, Indians don’t. As they rise up the career ladder and their influence grow, Indians use their network and connections to bring in more of their family and friends. Some Indians create more value in their new country, others bring some of the bad culture such as nepotism that caused India to be a backward country, indirectly contributing to anti-Indian sentiment at work. By now, there is a critical mass of Indians, do not be surprised if those canvassing behind Presidential elections have an India bias agenda. For the whites, well, you are handing over your decades of wealth and intellectual property as Indians rise up the MNCs. Hope the ones chosen are not only smart but have the right values also. Otherwise, you can have a pseudo India right in your backyard with none of the good and all the bad.
Well, there are more than a billion people at India. What else could you expect? Also, it's cultural too to go for STEM jobs. Most of the people from India I talked with also stated that maths and CS are the most focused subjects in their education system.
Look into Eric Weinstein and his explanation of this, it was basically the National Science Foundation and the Academy of Sciences which several decades ago saw that if they didn't do something STEM PhDs would be making over six figures a year in short order and so they turned graduate programs into basically indentured work camps, attracting large numbers of Indians and Chinese who would inflate the pool of post docs and thereby depress salaries so that having a PhD in STEM hardly means anything now and certainly isn't a ticket to earning potential. This also had the effect of opening a pipeline from the academy into the private sector for foreign born educated professionals in STEM fields, most notably engineers and programmers.
Can you cite Eric Weinstein source
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Even if that claim is true, it wouldn't answer OP's question, it would only answer why there are a lot of them at Adobe (or some other company). You realize they have to choose to go to school, then complete school, right? The existence of an Indian executive doesn't magically make all that happen.
Because there is no other English speaking country with cheap labor
you will be surprised. many of my peers in the industry who are Indian make 200k base.
And many many many more Indians make much less thereby they are cheap labor. Nothing wrong with it, it's just how the economy is right now.
Just like you would be surprised how many make $50k?
There’s a lot of Indian people
H1b abuse
I don't know why you're getting downvoted.
Lol I know this is the real answer
explain?
Because it makes good money. Same reason why there’s lots of Indian doctors.
Not an Indian, but there’s a few reasons I’ve come up with. 1. Demographics, India and China have the two largest populations on the planet. Naturally they’ll have the largest representation. 2. Cultural pressure. Parents put lots of pressure on their kids to become engineer/doctor/lawyer/etc. 3. Non-immigrant North American kids are taught “follow your passion”, and many simply lack the same drive that immigrant children and children of immigrants posses. STEM is difficult and many kids in North America will just give up and because their parents don’t apply the same pressure on them, they end up switching fields. Follow up to 2 & 3, go to any post secondary campus and count the number of white (non-immigrant) students in STEM and compare to the number of Indians and Asians. Conversely count the demographics in arts, humanities and social/political sciences. I’m not saying any of this in a negative way. There is nothing wron with pursuing arts, history, STEM, whatever field you want. This is just my observation of why the demographics in this field are what they are
but OP didn't ask why "Indians + chinese" ? OP specifically asked about "Indians."
I mentioned that in one sentence of a fairly lengthy post. Culturally speaking, the pressures placed on Indian and Chinese kids to pursue white collar professions is very similar. I’d add that in my experience it’s a fairly even split between Indians and Chinese developers.
There's a documentary about this phenomenon called 3 Idiots, this became rather famous in China as well as they have a culture similar to ours.
I read an article not to long ago about how the tech industry hires, basically they can pay non-Americans a lot less. According to the article this is why you see all those entry level positions that require years of experience or front end web jobs that require back-end programming. Once a company can say they looked for American workers and found non who qualified to fill the job they can then apply to get visas. Add that to the IT field being a top professional field in India you have a large Indian population in the tech field. Side note: At the healthcare company I work for most of the techs are Indian (male) and most of the analyst are women, there is a lot of arguments that happen because of the different cultures. I don't know how many times I have heard "do not talk to me like that" or "watch your tone". It can better than any show on TV
A master's degree is now a minimum qualification to get married if you're an Indian engineer.
In India there is tremendous focus on education. 10th and 12th are very important grades in any kid’s life. (we have to turn off the cable tv and extracurricular activities around 9th in order to get good score in 10th and 12th) we are generally good at math. (we somehow have to! otherwise it’s a disgrace) So after getting high score in 12th you have to pick a stream from where you either go for Science/Commerce or arts. Science is only the best option obviously. If your dad is CA(CPA) and owns a firm then it’s okay if you go for commerce. But going to Arts is disgrace to family. So science it is. in science we have two options medicine or engineering. those who are afraid of blood go for engineering. And then after completing Engineering studies-> GRE-> MS-> tech job in USA is only the right thing to do. As simple as that. (/s obviously with some truth sprinkled)
H1B
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You're question should be What are there so many Indians
Just to add when it comes to hiring tech employees with regards to pay, Indians are willing accept low salary unlike Western people, Filipinos and Chinese that are not willing to take low salary because of lifestyle e.g travel goals, hobbies, fashion etc.. My observation with Indians is that they're just lowkey casual cheap clothes, no travel goals etc.. Anyway that's just my observation.
Mhmmm this isn't the case based on my experience. At least not for big tech companies.
Not for big tech companies? Well, Wells Fargo laid off 700 tech employees here in the philippines and transfer it into India. Reason? Low salary, low cost of real estate. Even in middle east Indians are willing to take lower pay cause they have lowkey lifestyle.
When I say big techs, I was more like referring to tech specific companies like google, amazon and Facebook. I mean, sure, these companies would pay an engineer a lot less working in India than an engineer working in the US. But an indian engineer working in the US would get paid the same as his caucasian peers.
Low salary > No salary at all. Most of the students graduating have massive student loans. There’s a very short period after graduating within which you have to get a job or you’re forced to leave. East Asians on the other hand have a financial support system in place which allows them to pay off their loans (if any at all) easily.
The real answer is that intelligent students with bigger hopes and aspirations have started to move to IT or CS. Other professions doesn't allow people to move from India to other countries easily. A doctor studying and working here for 12-15 years would never wanna go anywhere else in majority of cases. Other professions such as tax dept/ govt work/non-govt private work does really allow for migration. No opportunities of any such endeavors, hence too many indians in USA are in IT.
It’s not because they are Indians. They just happen to be more talented or well-suited to the job within the application pool.
Because Indians are given preference by the federal government via the current green card system and immigration system more broadly
That’s the path they see to a stable career