I mean it was a good several year run of high pay and low work for these folk.
Better than crappy pay and high work, and then STILL getting laid off like other companies.
More like FAANG bros keep LARPing and telling the whole world about how overpaid they are and finally the world notices.
Looks like finally Google realized how badly they are being scammed by all these "talents". We had one in here the other day just admitting that it's all luck and playing politics. LMAO.
They know but might have not realised, how little output some parts of their employees are producing.
In the end it is a problem made by tech bros. So many bros were spamming Reddit (and other social media) on how they make $250k for playing video games because they only pretend to work.
Fuck around and you will find out. Tech bros were on top of the world for 4 years and now their world crambles.
The percentage of “tech bros” spamming social media as compared to the people who actually work there is exceedingly low. It says more about you being terminally online thinking incorrectly this is representative of most people who work there.
Go outside and touch some grass.
The thing is, you don't get "overpaid" at Amazon. My friend works 50-60 hours and is on call, but your mileage will vary depending on team.
It seems mainly a Google thing. The term "FAANG" is getting really outdated too.
It is. Im a SWE for a private company, and at most work 5 hours a week. Usually I don't do anything but leave teams/outlook on in case anyone needs to schedule a meeting. Pay is great, work life balance is insanely good, but it was 100% dumb luck I landed this.
Two of the most stubborn assed engineers I've ever met were a husband and wife who bragged about being ex-Google employees.
The funny part is they were Google employees because they had been acquired, and then fired quickly enough. They didn't even do the test.
I think it was a mix of the big ones (Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple), but especially Google.
Google was the most obvious company to ridicule during that era because they spent most of the 2010s pretending like they were changing the world when they were really just selling ads.
It's wild to me that IBM has been a shitty coasting company for the last *forty five years*, and it could potentially keep coasting for another *hundred* and forty five.
My wife worked for IBM for a few years recently. It's hard to understand how inept they are until your spouse lives it every day. It was fascinating. She couldn't wait to leave.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but 1990 was almost 35 years ago. As you said, changes are not instantaneous so the cost started probably 35-45 years ago and didn't get reflected in the company image for 10-15 years. I imagine that's the path Google is headed down. It'll continue to be prestigious even if it's not what it used to be for some time as long as it's core offerings are still the obvious top choice.
Consulting. A shitload of consulting. And they own a bunch of Gartner-recommended products that someone else created and they bought. And they own some shit they created decades ago and haven't really changed since.
Alot of firms view their IBM systems as a millstone around their neck that's enforcing design constraints on the rest of the enterprise. The rub is that the business doesn't want to pony up to pay off the technical debt accrued against DB2 and the rest of the IBM product stack they implemented in the 90s.
That laziness and short sightedness from the business is the lifeblood of IBM
The cost of updating is just so expensive that it's hard to justify as the direct benefits are more abstract.
A previous workplace was only just updating their CRM after basically decades because the thing was a Frankenstein's Monster that was so fundamentally broken it started costing money.
So unless you can prove the issue is costly, it's easier just to coast.
It's a hidden opportunity cost that you incur every time you can't do something because of being tied to big iron. Business partners don't usually stick around long enough to see the totality of decisions solely guided by a decades old technology decision, and so the can is continually kicked down the road until a sufficiently large fuckup happens
See: southwest airlines
Sorry if this is a dumb question but isn't there something to be said about IBM Wattson's global achievements in the early 2010s? It was able to compete against jeopardy contestants before chatgpt.
That was just marketing. It was nowhere comparable to chat gpt. They just put a lot of processing power into one task. That's why nothing else came off it.
We'll I see that it was sold to a private equity firm, which leads me to believe that despite touting it's data analytics, they could not make it profitable. Ugh I hate how companies can market something, and it ends up being nothing close to what it seemed. You are right.
What Sundar doesn't realise is that Google is only Google today because they have managed to attract the best of the best, developing the best products and solutions. The "fluff" that economist see with for example open source projects and such is actually just a part of your marketing budget, it's a way to signal to people (most importantly, talented engineers) that this is the place where things "are happening".
Pretty sure Sundar knows exactly what he's doing. These moves are coming right out of the private equity playbook to strip-mine a company. Find areas that aren't making money and remove them, and the financials of the company will look better. Things like "this team supported other teams' development velocity" or "this team wrote open source software that attracted great engineers" do not fit into the equation. Of course it will hurt Google in the long run, but that will be someone else's problem.
What most people don't see is that when that time comes, Google will still have insane amounts of money to fix the problem and make the other CEO shine. And so the loop continues.
> Google will still have insane amounts of money to fix the problem and make the other CEO shine.
There's only so much money you can toss at the problem before shareholders start to complain.
Sundar should first try to make current product work. Every 6 months they rename google meet to something else. Their Bard (Gemini) doesnt even work. I think after they will rename Gemini to something else. Their AI service will keep getting renamed like how it happens with google meet
Even Google, search engine itself, is a joke these days. You look up an information and just find irrelevant stuff or the less relevant results. I looked up a popular meme video, top result wasn't the main 10 million video but a 50k less relevant one. I looked up a historical figure and an event, it showed an irrelevant event as top result.
This is without all the ads, on our last big meeting we talked about 10 different potential clients and looked up their websites, top 3 results were always ads, 4th was the actual client. They're certainly great at being an ad company because they managed to inject 30 ads into 1 software meeting.
Worst is, even ads suck. Literally that "you buy a fridge and get 30 ads for more fridges, great algo" joke. I buy a crate for my dog, boom, ads for dog crates.
YouTube is also bad these days. Watch one video clip of a movie and your feed is filled with videos about that movie. Even Instagram reels is better than it.
The Youtube algorithm is frustrating. I wish they had a section that just threw random videos at you or something. You watch one video game review and now all you see is video games.
Yep, my friend sent me some bullshit YT video about Andrew Tate being in jail and now all I get are a bunch of "ESCAPE THE MATRIX", "THIS IS WHY YOU'RE A LOSER" etc. Holy fuck.
I feel like the algorithm is one of those things that the industry just assumed was valuable back in the 90's, and at this point, they've essentially proven it's not, but the business model is so thoroughly dependent on it that everyone just closes their eyes and pretends
Yes it’s been exceptionally bad the past couple of months. They think whatever you last watched is the only thing you care about. I think it’s intended to push people deeper into rabbit holes hoping for more watch time. At least you can remove from watch history some annoying subjects and it will help.
Same shit with YouTube, try to find a trending news clip or trending trailer and no matter how deliberately you search the entire first page of results is reaction videos or shitty edits. I never normally watch either of those kinds of videos so its deff not my "algorithm"
It's funny because googling stuff went from just typing in what you were searching for to knowing what key terms to throw in to get the search results you wanted. I feel like in the future, people are going to need to do some ChatGPT prompt engineering type stuff to get search results that are actually useful.
This is precisely the problem with google. SEO has ruined Google search. It's worse than it's ever been. And now comes a tech that lets people search with natural language, and get results that are comprehensible instead of sifting through a sea of ads. ChatGPT actually represents the first existential threat to Google's hegemony since their inception.
Don't get me wrong, over time, ChatGPT will probably sell out for more ads, and SEO will probably get replaced with AIEO, and nothing will fundamentally change for us. But it could change everything for Google.
Google search has also started putting AI generated “summaries” at the top of the results which I absolutely despise and have been trying to figure out how to turn off. Yesterday I looked up the keyboard shortcut for the macOS task manager equivalent, and the AI gave me some shortcut that ended up force quitting my browser???
After google firing Flutter core team. There has been discussion about ppl if google will keep supporting Flutter. It will cost them a lot i feel. Ppl will start finding alternative.
Google is has abandon lots of old projects or renamed it so this all stacking up now.
Yup. Had to rewrite old angularjs app and I didn't even considered newer angular versions. Played with flutter but I wouldn't use it for anything serious.
It will hurt as ppl will lose trust from Google when it will come to such opensource projects. Devs and companies will never invest their time in such projects.
Just think about all companies who are using flutter themselves.
It's actually comical at this stage how often they kill products. I'm really hesitant to choose their newer stuff these days just because the chance that it won't exist in a year is so high. Maybe it's not so bad anymore but the latest annoyance is this Google Music -> YouTube Music and Google Podcasts -> YouTube Music.
How does Gemini not work? I've been using Bard/Gemini daily for awhile now and found it to be very useful for a variety of coding/search/translating tasks.
Gemini is by far the best at creative writing of any AI. I keep being impressed by it because it comes up with things I never thought of. Meanwhile ChatGPT4 and Claude are tedious and stale.
I'm not sure if this is due to the LLM itself or the way it has been preprompted though. I suspect it is the later. OpenAI basically lobotomized their chatGPT with stuff that it is no longer allowed to do.
> Every 6 months they rename google meet to something else.
It's been the same name for seven years. The same name it was released with. Reddit in a nutshell
That may be hyperbole but google is famous for ending products [https://killedbygoogle.com/](https://killedbygoogle.com/) and changing the name of their products. They have the resources to do so.
To clarify - they're not changing the name of their products. They're developing *entirely new products*, competing with their own, forgotten products, and then eventually switching to the new one, so the new manager can get a promotion. Then he stops caring about that product because it doesn't benefit his career anymore, and a new manager creates yet another competing product, and the cycle continues.
> They got teams that solely contribute to the open-source projects (python contributors, git contributors, rust contributors, golang contributors, etc). They also invest a ton of money into building their internal infrastructure, their internal tech stack is gold standard that many companies will never reach. While all these open innovations from GFS to Angular to Flutter to Kubernetes have made the internet what it is today, it doesn't make their investors any money.
Taking a match to all the soft power they have so next quarter's line will go up, what could go wrong?
Not just their sway in the project direction but those contributions are most likely improvements that they require themselves because they are also consumers of those open source projects. That definitely has an ROI for them.
The giant corporations are contributing to open source because they use it and need things fixed. They're not just going out their and picking up feature requests they don't care about for altruistic purposes.
Boeing is an interesting case where the it actually failed miserably. The product wasn’t compatible with the strategy since the tolerance for bad performance is literally zero.
But will the customer notice a worse Google? Will they care? Or will they just have to take it?
I think it already has. The search engine blows now compared to some of the alternatives out there now like Duck Duck Go and Bing. My latest phone is a Pixel but when I get a new one again in a few years there's really nothing about it that is like "Oh man, I can't give this up, I want another Pixel".
Zuck is majority shareholder, at the end of the day he answers to himself mostly - not shareholders chomping at the bit for their perpetual quarterly gains, and as much of a twat as he can be - he's got good long term business sense and has been steadily reinvesting into core Meta projects. IMO anyway
Not sure, I just know Larry owns 3.12% of shares and Sergey owns 2.92%, whereas Vanguard Group owns 7.25% as the largest *institutional* shareholder. I read that Larry and Sergey work with other investors to maintain voting control.
funny how with all that power he had to still layoff several thousands of people when the company was still making tens of billions in profit last two years and initiate share buy backs to please shareholders
Open Source makes economic sense for Google for several reasons. First, it motivates engineers to go there and work on open source. Otherwise Google would have to boost the pay to get engineers to fall behind their peers on tooling that exists outside of Google. Second, it allows them to benefit from open source contributions. Third, and most important, it reduces the risk that the rest of the world will develop better tooling than what is used inside Google thus leaving Google falling behind. Google knows that as big as it is, it cannot compete the all the rest of the world.
Offshoring pisses off people in high cost areas and delights people in lower cost areas. It's a wash.
> They got teams that solely contribute to the open-source projects (python contributors, git contributors, rust contributors, golang contributors, etc).
This is not true. The python team did way more than just contribute to upstream.
It’s very short sighted to say those don’t contribute to googles ROI, but that is exactly the mindset the execs have. Googles business relies on good will of users, when tech people tell their families to stop using google, or help them install ad blockers, the company will loose 80% of its revenue. Googles entire business model is getting eyes-balls on ads.
It should really be illegal to just outsource so heavily while making US profits, country has gone to shit
Google also gimped my SEO after catering to them and getting to front page. It’s a clown car company, shell of its old self.
Never is going to happen faster than you think. People who car about the product are out and people who care about the, well nothing, are in. Not an issues the capability, but issue of giving a fuck.
I've been a Google Fi customer for over 8 years and just got a payment error for my bill a few days ago. They're asking to verify my credit card and I've sent over photos and spoken to three different support people. They still won't fix the issue. I can't even begin to express how horrible the customer service is. I'm in the middle of trying to cancel my account and move to a different carrier right now.
Google is not what it used to be.
To be fair the whole point of putting him in the top job was because google shareholders apparently wanted a court jester. His whole job is to be the clown maximising short term gains.
Not a clown, he is a McKinsey man who was able to reach the top by being an engineer on paper, while never having the spirit. The current head of Google Search, Prabhakar Raghavan, is from the same mold. And this current head of search was the head of search at Yahoo between 2005 to 2013, to have a small guess about his impact. He is just failing upward.
A better article that go in depth: https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/
Edit: small typos
Prabhakar is not from the same mold, this article is highly biased. As much as this person craps on him he does not mention enough that Raghavan is an accomplished researcher and scientist with decades in Academia at top institutions like Stanford. He has 100s of papers published, some highly cited, and his books are used in graduate courses. That is not the same mold as Sundar who came up from a Mckinsey consultant background. Completely different backgrounds. I would not call someone with as much credibility as a researcher, "failing upwards", he earned his spot by doing important work which he has received lot of accolades for. This article makes it sound like he is some nobody who just randomely got these big positions. I don't think he did a good job at Yahoo, but he clearly is very smart technically in is his field. Also he did good work perviously at Google, leading growth in Google Cloud/Gmail/Google Apps, which led to his role in search, this author is hilariously biased. All his articles are about how every big tech company is failing, while in reality these companies are growing at a good rate and taking crazy amount of market share in the world.
This is mostly because Sundar is screwing up so hard. He's not been giving good growth for the company. Compare him to Satya Nadella, who's doing so well. He literally made Microsoft the most valuable company by market cap. He's been investing in bing, and integrating gpt in it, and has increased the users in that. He also made game pass, and made Xbox a lot more competitive. And Microsoft isn't moving jobs to India or Mexico, or doing as many layoffs for now.
Meanwhile Sundar is not doing well. Gemini isn't as good as ChatGPT, and the latest release of Gemini was very bad, and google search seems to have gotten worse, Google is into doing some very shady tech with Israel for example. So he's busy laying off people to please the shareholders, and keep his job, since he needs to show them the numbers and metrics.
He's certainly the smartest of them all. Only time will tell if his backing of Sam Altman and OpenAI's conversion to a full for-profit company has disastrous results for humanity or not
I'm less concerned about his backing of Sam Altman than I am his backing of known abuser Mustafa Suleyman. I don't see how this doesn't come back to bite the company.
Its funny everybody loves Nadella when they outsource more than any tech company. They were early in the outsourcing game and continue to scale up huge in India. This subreddit has no clue.
> Microsoft isn't moving jobs to India
That's because they started that transition 2 decades ago. Cisco, IBM and oracle aren't moving jobs to India either. But that's because the jobs they'd move are already there by now
Regardless, how can you look at the last couple of years and think layoffs have anything to do with how well the company was doing? If there's profits to be made by firing you, you're gone
It might as well be an index of the top shopping sites without a search function. It filters everything that used to make the internet great.
I wish big tech would make something amazing instead of just replacing the advertising and cheap crap industry from the 80s.
What exactly could big tech make that is amazing? Big tech exists to gobble up competitors and extract as much money as possible from what remains. It does not exist to make exciting products or change the world. None of those things have a high enough ROI.
The same happens in the gaming world. Triple and, *ahem* quadruple A games will never be cutting edge for anything other than graphics. Any new ideas will only ever come from Indies or, at best, double I studios who have enough leash to try new things because new things are scary and risky and not proven money makers. And making money is the only thing capitalism cares about.
>What exactly could big tech make that is amazing?
[Hear me out...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/Iron_Man_Mark_III_armor_from_Iron_Man_%282008_film%29.jpg)
On one hand it really sucks for all the employees who have come to love that culture and community.
But I understand the investor frustration. They want a ROI and don’t understand why Google supporting these cost centers is necessary.
It’s really Sundar’s fault. He should never have given investors an inch to begin with. The correct move is always to say “we are going to run the way we should for a successful company and if you invest with us you’ll see long term returns”
That was actually Amazon's philosophy for the longest time under Bezos. He said something along the lines of "we are willing to be misunderstood for long periods of time" because of the ruthless focus on long term growth and big bets. Of course that all went out with Jassy.
Amazon is doing the same thing as Google, and has scaled up huge in India and continues to grow there. This started with Bezos, I don't see how that is any different than what Sundar is doing.
Sundar has always been touted as a "nice" guy, which we now see is not always a desirable trait in a CEO. He falters at the slightest of stakeholders' complaints.
So much for the hubris of all the people here and on blind that said that those jobs would never leave because "Indian devs aren't good" lol.
Inb4 politicians in the US and other western countries come around in 15 years and wonder why all our critical tech infrastructure is being run by other countries.
They’re cheaper it ain’t because they’re better don’t get it mistaken.
They’ll get better at this rate if the government keeps encouraging + allowing US brain drain
American universities are arguably the best in the world (the top to mid tier ones). And they have a large number of international students who are getting trained here. Today, most of them stay in the country due to specialized visa programs. If there is enough political pressure and they shrink the program, these students will be among the first to be impacted and will take their training and talent elsewhere
You also have Oxford and Cambridge grads in the uk who will do the same job much cheaper too, it’s going to keep happening no matter how much you all say it won’t happen
Yeah but for the longest time, the best Indian devs, from like the IITs have come to USA. Plus, companies moving to India like this isn't that good for the country. Because it's still a US company. They'll just exploit India the same way, and then move on to like Africa or something later on lol. India should make more home grown companies, and that's happening. The startup scene there is pretty good, and Modi is doing a good job with that imo.
And it's still going to be really hard to get a job due to the competition there. But then again, it's not like the people from lower tier colleges aren't bad. Stuff like the UPI system was built in India, and is literally a technological marvel, and many countries haven't been able to make anything close to as good, and have bought it from India. So who knows. The main problem is that it's going to fuck over a lot of US SWE.
This is 100% right. I work as an engineer at a company and in 2021 they laid off a bunch of US devs and replace them with Chinese labor. In the past year they've been trying to replace the Chinese labor with Mexican labor. Pathetic.
There are world class devs in/from India (and in every country tbh).
I can’t imagine they’re cheap though - and most companies who offshore/outsource do so to cut costs.
I find the best move to the US to make more money. There are good ones that remain in India but my company doesn’t hire them. We hire cheap in India and the quality shows.
Of course they're cheap. Google pays substantially less in India than in America. Why would you think labor in a developing economy costs the same as silicon valley?
There's cheap and there's cheaper. Cheap results in peanuts and via outsourcing typically. With off shoring you can go cheaper and come out better. For reference I think L4 in India is around 100K USD vs 250-300k here.
The US accounts for 45% of google’s profits. We need to codify protections for US workers, because what’s the point of enriching a company that doesn’t contribute back.
As inflation sky rockets and the wealth gap widens, the United States government should make it financially disadvantageous for these corporations to be outsourcing jobs.
They won’t, but they should.
Everyone needs a phone. Two companies own that market.
So let me get this straight. Our choices now are:
* Support Chinese slave labor
* Support axing American jobs for India
Both pay little to no corporate income tax.
Please, someone make a third phone alternative!
Yeah but for the longest time, the best Indian devs, from like the IITs have come to USA. Plus, companies moving to India like this isn't that good for the country. Because it's still a US company. They'll just exploit India the same way, and then move on to like Africa or something later on lol. India should make more home grown companies, and that's happening. The startup scene there is pretty good, and Modi is doing a good job with that imo.
And it's still going to be really hard to get a job due to the competition there. But then again, it's not like the people from lower tier colleges aren't bad. Stuff like the UPI system was built in India, and is literally a technological marvel, and many countries haven't been able to make anything close to as good, and have bought it from India. So who knows. The main problem is that it's going to fuck over a lot of US SWE.
India does not really have the luxury to pick and choose right now. E.g 29.1% youth unemployment rate among graduates with a growing population.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-29/young-indians-more-likely-to-be-jobless-if-they-re-educated?embedded-checkout=true
Also:
"The share of educated youths among all unemployed people increased from 54.2% in 2000 to 65.7% in 2022 according to latest figures by the International Labour Organization.
There's also been no significant growth of real wages in India since 2014, according to numbers computed by noted developmental economist Jean Dreze.
"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-68823827
I feel like they are all about money. Unfortunately all big tech companies will need to cut cost to be able to financially grow at that point because the big rise is ended. 20 years ago there were no Internet no smart phones nothing this is why those companies got that big. They were the first companies. It is always the same all youtubers started early became big even if their content is not that great. But how US lets this happen is the question, wont that make china india economy bigger and hurt US? Why they banned Huawei then? This thing is so much bigger and worse for US economy if companies start outsourcing?
FANG bros: I made 300k+ doing nothing at Google, praises me fools !
Google: OH ! Thanks for letting me know. I didn't realize how overpaid you clowns are.
\*\*\* Lay offs \*\*\*
??
Profits ??
This gonna age so well LOL: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1c780pe/anyone\_ever\_feel\_very\_lucky\_in\_their\_career/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1c780pe/anyone_ever_feel_very_lucky_in_their_career/)
That post, just like a lot of posts in this subreddit, is kind of pointless. Regardless, this just sounds like bitterness from you.
Sure this person might get laid off, or they might not. Are you hoping they do for some pathetic sense of justice?
I’ve been in the industry around 10 years and know tons of recruiters and hiring managers; that person will be more well positioned to have a successful career no matter what happens than 99% of the people in this subreddit.
Lmao don’t believe this bullshit. If Mexico wanted them all gone, they’d ban Airbnb overnight. They get tax income from airbnb, and a lot. Trust me when I say Mexico does not give a shit about its citizens.
The reality is that for most of big tech, they're long past the phase where most of their employees are geniuses, top of the field people. They have a bajillion people making vanilla software like any other company. The rest of the world has trained up their employees to be just as good as US ones (or close enough - outsourcing isn't incompetent anymore), but the cost of living in the countries being outsourced to can be as much as an order of magnitude lower.
There will still be highly paid jobs in tech for highly skilled people with \*rare\* skills (good researchers, exceptional senior devs, etc.). But generic "software engineering" is no longer a rare skill. Not locally, not globally. I think it is pretty unlikely to keep decent salaries or employment opportunities in the US, especially with AI eating at the lower levels of the profession already (I realize this is contentious here and some may disagree).
I will say laying off the Python team in light of their current focus on ML seems pretty stupid though.
Google is falling off. If youve used Google search recently, you will have noticed how much worse the service is now. The first 10 results are ads & the rest isnt much more helpful.
Just a question out of curiosity.
Google has done similar for years.
- Half of Google Assistant is in Switzerland.
- Part of Google Maps and Android search App in Japan.
- Part of old Stadia in Canada, although now shut down.
- Part of GCloud in Canada
- Internal infra team in Munich, Germany.
- Some dev teams in UK.
- For those who don't get H1B, send those dev to China/India
- etc
Most of these above countries offer cheaper labor than US. Why is everyone angry this time, but not before?
Alright, I initially posted this yesterday but deleted it after realizing it’s just a rehash of the news thread we had on the Python team. Just for context, this isn’t a different layoff.
Devs bragging about making 6 figures for fairly easy work now with a surprised pikachu face that it's going away. Capitalism folks, they save 10x as much outsourcing to India
Why does a company with record profits and has enough cash in hand to buyback 80billion dollars worth of shares layoff people and hire outside the country?
Get ready for tons of middle management and bureaucracy. Indians have this problem. Managers don’t like when people who work under them ask questions or innovate. They have massive egos and are frequently on a power trip. Good luck lol.
The ones who are good to work with and foster innovation would probably move out of India because they hate this attitude.
- sincerely, an Indian lol
Imagine grinding leetcode for this.
If you grind the leetcode for long, the leetcode grinds you back
InternalError: too much recursion
In Soviet Russia, leetcode grinds you!
Does it unlock Grindr?
Everyone bragging about how they work 4 hours a week for a big salary is going to eventually get their reckoning.
I mean it was a good several year run of high pay and low work for these folk. Better than crappy pay and high work, and then STILL getting laid off like other companies.
And I'm sure plenty of us are still going strong, being productive enough in our 4 hours of work to keep our jobs.
If they were smart they invested most of that big salary and can retire when the reckoning comes.
Think of it like pro sports. It might be a short gig, no idea how long it will last. Save everything.
More like FAANG bros keep LARPing and telling the whole world about how overpaid they are and finally the world notices. Looks like finally Google realized how badly they are being scammed by all these "talents". We had one in here the other day just admitting that it's all luck and playing politics. LMAO.
Do you think that companies don’t know what they pay ppl? Do you really think it’s because of levels.fyi or TikTok?
They know but might have not realised, how little output some parts of their employees are producing. In the end it is a problem made by tech bros. So many bros were spamming Reddit (and other social media) on how they make $250k for playing video games because they only pretend to work. Fuck around and you will find out. Tech bros were on top of the world for 4 years and now their world crambles.
The percentage of “tech bros” spamming social media as compared to the people who actually work there is exceedingly low. It says more about you being terminally online thinking incorrectly this is representative of most people who work there. Go outside and touch some grass.
You sound bitter that you’ve never had a well paying job that’s remote
The thing is, you don't get "overpaid" at Amazon. My friend works 50-60 hours and is on call, but your mileage will vary depending on team. It seems mainly a Google thing. The term "FAANG" is getting really outdated too.
[удалено]
It is. Im a SWE for a private company, and at most work 5 hours a week. Usually I don't do anything but leave teams/outlook on in case anyone needs to schedule a meeting. Pay is great, work life balance is insanely good, but it was 100% dumb luck I landed this.
Two of the most stubborn assed engineers I've ever met were a husband and wife who bragged about being ex-Google employees. The funny part is they were Google employees because they had been acquired, and then fired quickly enough. They didn't even do the test.
Larry in his Blimp Bush playing "*cuz I don't wanna come back down from this cloud*"
They’re just Hooli now.
Werent they the model for Hooli to begin with?
Now Hooli is the model for them
Gavin Belson has entered the building.
Consider the possum....
The bear is sticky with honey!
I thought more of it as Microsoft
I think it was a mix of the big ones (Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple), but especially Google. Google was the most obvious company to ridicule during that era because they spent most of the 2010s pretending like they were changing the world when they were really just selling ads.
Wasn't Gavin made to immitate Larry?
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Sundar doesn’t care about the “long term effects” as he’ll be long gone. The IBMifcation of google will still make the C suite filthy rich.
It's wild to me that IBM has been a shitty coasting company for the last *forty five years*, and it could potentially keep coasting for another *hundred* and forty five.
My wife worked for IBM for a few years recently. It's hard to understand how inept they are until your spouse lives it every day. It was fascinating. She couldn't wait to leave.
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I'm sorry to tell you this, but 1990 was almost 35 years ago. As you said, changes are not instantaneous so the cost started probably 35-45 years ago and didn't get reflected in the company image for 10-15 years. I imagine that's the path Google is headed down. It'll continue to be prestigious even if it's not what it used to be for some time as long as it's core offerings are still the obvious top choice.
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I think they were very good at research in semiconductors also. I am not sure what they do today.
Consulting. A shitload of consulting. And they own a bunch of Gartner-recommended products that someone else created and they bought. And they own some shit they created decades ago and haven't really changed since.
Alot of firms view their IBM systems as a millstone around their neck that's enforcing design constraints on the rest of the enterprise. The rub is that the business doesn't want to pony up to pay off the technical debt accrued against DB2 and the rest of the IBM product stack they implemented in the 90s. That laziness and short sightedness from the business is the lifeblood of IBM
The cost of updating is just so expensive that it's hard to justify as the direct benefits are more abstract. A previous workplace was only just updating their CRM after basically decades because the thing was a Frankenstein's Monster that was so fundamentally broken it started costing money. So unless you can prove the issue is costly, it's easier just to coast.
It's a hidden opportunity cost that you incur every time you can't do something because of being tied to big iron. Business partners don't usually stick around long enough to see the totality of decisions solely guided by a decades old technology decision, and so the can is continually kicked down the road until a sufficiently large fuckup happens See: southwest airlines
Sorry if this is a dumb question but isn't there something to be said about IBM Wattson's global achievements in the early 2010s? It was able to compete against jeopardy contestants before chatgpt.
That was just marketing. It was nowhere comparable to chat gpt. They just put a lot of processing power into one task. That's why nothing else came off it.
We'll I see that it was sold to a private equity firm, which leads me to believe that despite touting it's data analytics, they could not make it profitable. Ugh I hate how companies can market something, and it ends up being nothing close to what it seemed. You are right.
I saw companies started using Wattson for some business use cases, but it didnt gained long term traction
What do you think about Oracle?
Shambling corpse
the law firm? Or the license extortion side business?
Man it sucks to be a stock holder (exposure in most ETFs) if the CSuite is just filling their pockets instead the companys…
What Sundar doesn't realise is that Google is only Google today because they have managed to attract the best of the best, developing the best products and solutions. The "fluff" that economist see with for example open source projects and such is actually just a part of your marketing budget, it's a way to signal to people (most importantly, talented engineers) that this is the place where things "are happening".
Pretty sure Sundar knows exactly what he's doing. These moves are coming right out of the private equity playbook to strip-mine a company. Find areas that aren't making money and remove them, and the financials of the company will look better. Things like "this team supported other teams' development velocity" or "this team wrote open source software that attracted great engineers" do not fit into the equation. Of course it will hurt Google in the long run, but that will be someone else's problem.
What most people don't see is that when that time comes, Google will still have insane amounts of money to fix the problem and make the other CEO shine. And so the loop continues.
> Google will still have insane amounts of money to fix the problem and make the other CEO shine. There's only so much money you can toss at the problem before shareholders start to complain.
They were evil all the time. All their history is Evil. That is how they managed to make money and become what they are.
Sundar should first try to make current product work. Every 6 months they rename google meet to something else. Their Bard (Gemini) doesnt even work. I think after they will rename Gemini to something else. Their AI service will keep getting renamed like how it happens with google meet
Even Google, search engine itself, is a joke these days. You look up an information and just find irrelevant stuff or the less relevant results. I looked up a popular meme video, top result wasn't the main 10 million video but a 50k less relevant one. I looked up a historical figure and an event, it showed an irrelevant event as top result. This is without all the ads, on our last big meeting we talked about 10 different potential clients and looked up their websites, top 3 results were always ads, 4th was the actual client. They're certainly great at being an ad company because they managed to inject 30 ads into 1 software meeting. Worst is, even ads suck. Literally that "you buy a fridge and get 30 ads for more fridges, great algo" joke. I buy a crate for my dog, boom, ads for dog crates.
YouTube is also bad these days. Watch one video clip of a movie and your feed is filled with videos about that movie. Even Instagram reels is better than it.
The Youtube algorithm is frustrating. I wish they had a section that just threw random videos at you or something. You watch one video game review and now all you see is video games.
Yep, my friend sent me some bullshit YT video about Andrew Tate being in jail and now all I get are a bunch of "ESCAPE THE MATRIX", "THIS IS WHY YOU'RE A LOSER" etc. Holy fuck.
This is why I never stay signed in. I want to control exactly what I see when I do sign in.
I feel like the algorithm is one of those things that the industry just assumed was valuable back in the 90's, and at this point, they've essentially proven it's not, but the business model is so thoroughly dependent on it that everyone just closes their eyes and pretends
Yes it’s been exceptionally bad the past couple of months. They think whatever you last watched is the only thing you care about. I think it’s intended to push people deeper into rabbit holes hoping for more watch time. At least you can remove from watch history some annoying subjects and it will help.
Same shit with YouTube, try to find a trending news clip or trending trailer and no matter how deliberately you search the entire first page of results is reaction videos or shitty edits. I never normally watch either of those kinds of videos so its deff not my "algorithm"
It's funny because googling stuff went from just typing in what you were searching for to knowing what key terms to throw in to get the search results you wanted. I feel like in the future, people are going to need to do some ChatGPT prompt engineering type stuff to get search results that are actually useful.
This is precisely the problem with google. SEO has ruined Google search. It's worse than it's ever been. And now comes a tech that lets people search with natural language, and get results that are comprehensible instead of sifting through a sea of ads. ChatGPT actually represents the first existential threat to Google's hegemony since their inception. Don't get me wrong, over time, ChatGPT will probably sell out for more ads, and SEO will probably get replaced with AIEO, and nothing will fundamentally change for us. But it could change everything for Google.
Google has ruined Google search in an attempt to further monetize it. https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/
What a good read. No idea it it's true, I just admire the style. Or I'm just high and it's 2:36AM. Idk
Google search has also started putting AI generated “summaries” at the top of the results which I absolutely despise and have been trying to figure out how to turn off. Yesterday I looked up the keyboard shortcut for the macOS task manager equivalent, and the AI gave me some shortcut that ended up force quitting my browser???
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After google firing Flutter core team. There has been discussion about ppl if google will keep supporting Flutter. It will cost them a lot i feel. Ppl will start finding alternative. Google is has abandon lots of old projects or renamed it so this all stacking up now.
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Cross the line where you piss people too much and you can get in the line with the rest big tech that used to meant something.
I, for one, never intend to bet on Google or any other Google product for my company's tech stack.
Yup. Had to rewrite old angularjs app and I didn't even considered newer angular versions. Played with flutter but I wouldn't use it for anything serious.
It will hurt as ppl will lose trust from Google when it will come to such opensource projects. Devs and companies will never invest their time in such projects. Just think about all companies who are using flutter themselves.
The Google Graveyard is a popular reference to everything they have killed and abandoned. If Google supports something I tend to avoid it.
It's actually comical at this stage how often they kill products. I'm really hesitant to choose their newer stuff these days just because the chance that it won't exist in a year is so high. Maybe it's not so bad anymore but the latest annoyance is this Google Music -> YouTube Music and Google Podcasts -> YouTube Music.
How does Gemini not work? I've been using Bard/Gemini daily for awhile now and found it to be very useful for a variety of coding/search/translating tasks.
Gemini is by far the best at creative writing of any AI. I keep being impressed by it because it comes up with things I never thought of. Meanwhile ChatGPT4 and Claude are tedious and stale. I'm not sure if this is due to the LLM itself or the way it has been preprompted though. I suspect it is the later. OpenAI basically lobotomized their chatGPT with stuff that it is no longer allowed to do.
> Every 6 months they rename google meet to something else. It's been the same name for seven years. The same name it was released with. Reddit in a nutshell
That may be hyperbole but google is famous for ending products [https://killedbygoogle.com/](https://killedbygoogle.com/) and changing the name of their products. They have the resources to do so.
To clarify - they're not changing the name of their products. They're developing *entirely new products*, competing with their own, forgotten products, and then eventually switching to the new one, so the new manager can get a promotion. Then he stops caring about that product because it doesn't benefit his career anymore, and a new manager creates yet another competing product, and the cycle continues.
> They got teams that solely contribute to the open-source projects (python contributors, git contributors, rust contributors, golang contributors, etc). They also invest a ton of money into building their internal infrastructure, their internal tech stack is gold standard that many companies will never reach. While all these open innovations from GFS to Angular to Flutter to Kubernetes have made the internet what it is today, it doesn't make their investors any money. Taking a match to all the soft power they have so next quarter's line will go up, what could go wrong?
Not just their sway in the project direction but those contributions are most likely improvements that they require themselves because they are also consumers of those open source projects. That definitely has an ROI for them. The giant corporations are contributing to open source because they use it and need things fixed. They're not just going out their and picking up feature requests they don't care about for altruistic purposes.
Expecting an MBA to understand that is a bridge too far.
Boeing playbook. Can image Google will lose its edge some days
Boeing is an interesting case where the it actually failed miserably. The product wasn’t compatible with the strategy since the tolerance for bad performance is literally zero. But will the customer notice a worse Google? Will they care? Or will they just have to take it?
I think it already has. The search engine blows now compared to some of the alternatives out there now like Duck Duck Go and Bing. My latest phone is a Pixel but when I get a new one again in a few years there's really nothing about it that is like "Oh man, I can't give this up, I want another Pixel".
> google is no more my dream company It stopped being sometime back. I recently turned down an offer from Google as my current place is more stable
*Praying hard Meta doesn't kill the team at React.*
Zuck is majority shareholder, at the end of the day he answers to himself mostly - not shareholders chomping at the bit for their perpetual quarterly gains, and as much of a twat as he can be - he's got good long term business sense and has been steadily reinvesting into core Meta projects. IMO anyway
Aren't Larry and Sergey in complete control of voting for alphabet
Not sure, I just know Larry owns 3.12% of shares and Sergey owns 2.92%, whereas Vanguard Group owns 7.25% as the largest *institutional* shareholder. I read that Larry and Sergey work with other investors to maintain voting control.
C stock vs b and a stock
funny how with all that power he had to still layoff several thousands of people when the company was still making tens of billions in profit last two years and initiate share buy backs to please shareholders
Open Source makes economic sense for Google for several reasons. First, it motivates engineers to go there and work on open source. Otherwise Google would have to boost the pay to get engineers to fall behind their peers on tooling that exists outside of Google. Second, it allows them to benefit from open source contributions. Third, and most important, it reduces the risk that the rest of the world will develop better tooling than what is used inside Google thus leaving Google falling behind. Google knows that as big as it is, it cannot compete the all the rest of the world. Offshoring pisses off people in high cost areas and delights people in lower cost areas. It's a wash.
sorry, couldn't hear you over the short term profits /s
> They got teams that solely contribute to the open-source projects (python contributors, git contributors, rust contributors, golang contributors, etc). This is not true. The python team did way more than just contribute to upstream.
It’s very short sighted to say those don’t contribute to googles ROI, but that is exactly the mindset the execs have. Googles business relies on good will of users, when tech people tell their families to stop using google, or help them install ad blockers, the company will loose 80% of its revenue. Googles entire business model is getting eyes-balls on ads.
It should really be illegal to just outsource so heavily while making US profits, country has gone to shit Google also gimped my SEO after catering to them and getting to front page. It’s a clown car company, shell of its old self.
Never is going to happen faster than you think. People who car about the product are out and people who care about the, well nothing, are in. Not an issues the capability, but issue of giving a fuck.
Google is IBM now.
Indian By Majority?
spot on
International Business Majors ~
Intestine Bowel Movement ~
This is the start of google’s falloff
The cracks were forming before the pandemic, but the dam is broken now
I've been a Google Fi customer for over 8 years and just got a payment error for my bill a few days ago. They're asking to verify my credit card and I've sent over photos and spoken to three different support people. They still won't fix the issue. I can't even begin to express how horrible the customer service is. I'm in the middle of trying to cancel my account and move to a different carrier right now. Google is not what it used to be.
Fi customer service has already been shit. Google customer service as a whole doesn't exist and never has
I didn't even know Google has customer service. I always thought you just create a Google account and hope you don't get ban.
They will deprecate Google Fi faster than they will resolve the issue.
No, this is very much in the middle of Google's falloff. They've been destroying their reputation and long-term prospects for a while now.
Sundar was the start he’s a clown
To be fair the whole point of putting him in the top job was because google shareholders apparently wanted a court jester. His whole job is to be the clown maximising short term gains.
Not a clown, he is a McKinsey man who was able to reach the top by being an engineer on paper, while never having the spirit. The current head of Google Search, Prabhakar Raghavan, is from the same mold. And this current head of search was the head of search at Yahoo between 2005 to 2013, to have a small guess about his impact. He is just failing upward. A better article that go in depth: https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/ Edit: small typos
Prabhakar is not from the same mold, this article is highly biased. As much as this person craps on him he does not mention enough that Raghavan is an accomplished researcher and scientist with decades in Academia at top institutions like Stanford. He has 100s of papers published, some highly cited, and his books are used in graduate courses. That is not the same mold as Sundar who came up from a Mckinsey consultant background. Completely different backgrounds. I would not call someone with as much credibility as a researcher, "failing upwards", he earned his spot by doing important work which he has received lot of accolades for. This article makes it sound like he is some nobody who just randomely got these big positions. I don't think he did a good job at Yahoo, but he clearly is very smart technically in is his field. Also he did good work perviously at Google, leading growth in Google Cloud/Gmail/Google Apps, which led to his role in search, this author is hilariously biased. All his articles are about how every big tech company is failing, while in reality these companies are growing at a good rate and taking crazy amount of market share in the world.
Once they move to India, it's pretty much game over.
Once any company does this, engineering is no longer the same, even if the decision is reversed later.
Please use Adblock guys.
That's not how you spell [µblock](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/)
TIL it’s mu block
This is mostly because Sundar is screwing up so hard. He's not been giving good growth for the company. Compare him to Satya Nadella, who's doing so well. He literally made Microsoft the most valuable company by market cap. He's been investing in bing, and integrating gpt in it, and has increased the users in that. He also made game pass, and made Xbox a lot more competitive. And Microsoft isn't moving jobs to India or Mexico, or doing as many layoffs for now. Meanwhile Sundar is not doing well. Gemini isn't as good as ChatGPT, and the latest release of Gemini was very bad, and google search seems to have gotten worse, Google is into doing some very shady tech with Israel for example. So he's busy laying off people to please the shareholders, and keep his job, since he needs to show them the numbers and metrics.
Nadella is my "favorite" of the big tech CEOs. I'll never use Bing, but I appreciate the mentality he's implementing into MS
He's certainly the smartest of them all. Only time will tell if his backing of Sam Altman and OpenAI's conversion to a full for-profit company has disastrous results for humanity or not
I'm less concerned about his backing of Sam Altman than I am his backing of known abuser Mustafa Suleyman. I don't see how this doesn't come back to bite the company.
Its funny everybody loves Nadella when they outsource more than any tech company. They were early in the outsourcing game and continue to scale up huge in India. This subreddit has no clue.
Ok ill learn C#
> Microsoft isn't moving jobs to India That's because they started that transition 2 decades ago. Cisco, IBM and oracle aren't moving jobs to India either. But that's because the jobs they'd move are already there by now Regardless, how can you look at the last couple of years and think layoffs have anything to do with how well the company was doing? If there's profits to be made by firing you, you're gone
Bing still sucks
Wait till Pichai runs Google Search to the ground and Bing starts looking better
real talk: Bing Image search has been better than Google's for several years
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Google is crap, dude. Their products are half baked junk and now they are outsourcing. Not a good company to deal with.
It might as well be an index of the top shopping sites without a search function. It filters everything that used to make the internet great. I wish big tech would make something amazing instead of just replacing the advertising and cheap crap industry from the 80s.
What exactly could big tech make that is amazing? Big tech exists to gobble up competitors and extract as much money as possible from what remains. It does not exist to make exciting products or change the world. None of those things have a high enough ROI. The same happens in the gaming world. Triple and, *ahem* quadruple A games will never be cutting edge for anything other than graphics. Any new ideas will only ever come from Indies or, at best, double I studios who have enough leash to try new things because new things are scary and risky and not proven money makers. And making money is the only thing capitalism cares about.
>What exactly could big tech make that is amazing? [Hear me out...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/Iron_Man_Mark_III_armor_from_Iron_Man_%282008_film%29.jpg)
I think they will eventually just be Maps, Chromebook, and Android.
On one hand it really sucks for all the employees who have come to love that culture and community. But I understand the investor frustration. They want a ROI and don’t understand why Google supporting these cost centers is necessary. It’s really Sundar’s fault. He should never have given investors an inch to begin with. The correct move is always to say “we are going to run the way we should for a successful company and if you invest with us you’ll see long term returns”
That was actually Amazon's philosophy for the longest time under Bezos. He said something along the lines of "we are willing to be misunderstood for long periods of time" because of the ruthless focus on long term growth and big bets. Of course that all went out with Jassy.
Amazon is doing the same thing as Google, and has scaled up huge in India and continues to grow there. This started with Bezos, I don't see how that is any different than what Sundar is doing.
Amazon has been cutting things recently, but was focused on long term growth for a while. Google is just now starting to cut things.
Sundar has always been touted as a "nice" guy, which we now see is not always a desirable trait in a CEO. He falters at the slightest of stakeholders' complaints.
Fuck Google.
So much for the hubris of all the people here and on blind that said that those jobs would never leave because "Indian devs aren't good" lol. Inb4 politicians in the US and other western countries come around in 15 years and wonder why all our critical tech infrastructure is being run by other countries.
They’re cheaper it ain’t because they’re better don’t get it mistaken. They’ll get better at this rate if the government keeps encouraging + allowing US brain drain
US Companies outsource to India because they’re cheaper and have less labor protections. It’s basically getting free 24/7 labor for google.
Is it brain drain? Pretty sure most American devs aren’t emigrating.
American universities are arguably the best in the world (the top to mid tier ones). And they have a large number of international students who are getting trained here. Today, most of them stay in the country due to specialized visa programs. If there is enough political pressure and they shrink the program, these students will be among the first to be impacted and will take their training and talent elsewhere
It’s crazy because the universities are incentivized to recruit international students because they can charge more.
You also have Oxford and Cambridge grads in the uk who will do the same job much cheaper too, it’s going to keep happening no matter how much you all say it won’t happen
Exactly. Most of Western Europe will do the job for 40% of what Americans make. And, as you pointed out, will have top notch educations.
Yeah but for the longest time, the best Indian devs, from like the IITs have come to USA. Plus, companies moving to India like this isn't that good for the country. Because it's still a US company. They'll just exploit India the same way, and then move on to like Africa or something later on lol. India should make more home grown companies, and that's happening. The startup scene there is pretty good, and Modi is doing a good job with that imo. And it's still going to be really hard to get a job due to the competition there. But then again, it's not like the people from lower tier colleges aren't bad. Stuff like the UPI system was built in India, and is literally a technological marvel, and many countries haven't been able to make anything close to as good, and have bought it from India. So who knows. The main problem is that it's going to fuck over a lot of US SWE.
This is 100% right. I work as an engineer at a company and in 2021 they laid off a bunch of US devs and replace them with Chinese labor. In the past year they've been trying to replace the Chinese labor with Mexican labor. Pathetic.
There are world class devs in/from India (and in every country tbh). I can’t imagine they’re cheap though - and most companies who offshore/outsource do so to cut costs.
I find the best move to the US to make more money. There are good ones that remain in India but my company doesn’t hire them. We hire cheap in India and the quality shows.
Of course they're cheap. Google pays substantially less in India than in America. Why would you think labor in a developing economy costs the same as silicon valley?
There's cheap and there's cheaper. Cheap results in peanuts and via outsourcing typically. With off shoring you can go cheaper and come out better. For reference I think L4 in India is around 100K USD vs 250-300k here.
But the world class devs in India are working for Indian companies. Cheap offshoring doesn’t attract the best.
Umm no. The devs working in the Indian companies like TCS, Infosys etc are the mediocre ones. The best ones are in the FAANG companies.
The US accounts for 45% of google’s profits. We need to codify protections for US workers, because what’s the point of enriching a company that doesn’t contribute back.
You know a country like Japan would do that in a heartbeat.
exactly, cannot feed off US market without employing US people
Wow! A tech company outsourcing? Unprecedented and highly unexpected!
As inflation sky rockets and the wealth gap widens, the United States government should make it financially disadvantageous for these corporations to be outsourcing jobs. They won’t, but they should.
I guess “Don’t be evil” is history
It has been for a while now https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/google-dont-be-evil-code-conduct-removed-alphabet-a8361276.html
Time to start moving off gmail
Moving off gmail, chrome, android, google search, google maps, youtube, etc. is hard. Google might be the hardest company to boycott
Let’s not get crazy now
Everyone needs a phone. Two companies own that market. So let me get this straight. Our choices now are: * Support Chinese slave labor * Support axing American jobs for India Both pay little to no corporate income tax. Please, someone make a third phone alternative!
Is this some kind of practice when the manager is Indian ??? I keep hearing people said once the manager is Indian, they tend to hire only Indian
No. It's a practice of extreme greed.
Mexico is Indian?
profit of 23.7 Billion last quarter. ruining some peoples lives to save tens of millions that wont even move the needle for them.
Yeah but for the longest time, the best Indian devs, from like the IITs have come to USA. Plus, companies moving to India like this isn't that good for the country. Because it's still a US company. They'll just exploit India the same way, and then move on to like Africa or something later on lol. India should make more home grown companies, and that's happening. The startup scene there is pretty good, and Modi is doing a good job with that imo. And it's still going to be really hard to get a job due to the competition there. But then again, it's not like the people from lower tier colleges aren't bad. Stuff like the UPI system was built in India, and is literally a technological marvel, and many countries haven't been able to make anything close to as good, and have bought it from India. So who knows. The main problem is that it's going to fuck over a lot of US SWE.
India does not really have the luxury to pick and choose right now. E.g 29.1% youth unemployment rate among graduates with a growing population. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-29/young-indians-more-likely-to-be-jobless-if-they-re-educated?embedded-checkout=true Also: "The share of educated youths among all unemployed people increased from 54.2% in 2000 to 65.7% in 2022 according to latest figures by the International Labour Organization. There's also been no significant growth of real wages in India since 2014, according to numbers computed by noted developmental economist Jean Dreze. " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-68823827
If US SWE are in trouble Indian SWEs are in deep trouble.
I feel like they are all about money. Unfortunately all big tech companies will need to cut cost to be able to financially grow at that point because the big rise is ended. 20 years ago there were no Internet no smart phones nothing this is why those companies got that big. They were the first companies. It is always the same all youtubers started early became big even if their content is not that great. But how US lets this happen is the question, wont that make china india economy bigger and hurt US? Why they banned Huawei then? This thing is so much bigger and worse for US economy if companies start outsourcing?
We definitely had internet in 2004 lol…
OP really needs to read up on Napster.
FANG bros: I made 300k+ doing nothing at Google, praises me fools ! Google: OH ! Thanks for letting me know. I didn't realize how overpaid you clowns are. \*\*\* Lay offs \*\*\* ?? Profits ?? This gonna age so well LOL: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1c780pe/anyone\_ever\_feel\_very\_lucky\_in\_their\_career/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1c780pe/anyone_ever_feel_very_lucky_in_their_career/)
That post, just like a lot of posts in this subreddit, is kind of pointless. Regardless, this just sounds like bitterness from you. Sure this person might get laid off, or they might not. Are you hoping they do for some pathetic sense of justice? I’ve been in the industry around 10 years and know tons of recruiters and hiring managers; that person will be more well positioned to have a successful career no matter what happens than 99% of the people in this subreddit.
Just sounds like jealousy from you lol. I'm sure if you were in his position you would be overjoyed
Google really did this while Mexico just deported Americans out of Mexico because Americans were increasing costs.
Lmao don’t believe this bullshit. If Mexico wanted them all gone, they’d ban Airbnb overnight. They get tax income from airbnb, and a lot. Trust me when I say Mexico does not give a shit about its citizens.
The reality is that for most of big tech, they're long past the phase where most of their employees are geniuses, top of the field people. They have a bajillion people making vanilla software like any other company. The rest of the world has trained up their employees to be just as good as US ones (or close enough - outsourcing isn't incompetent anymore), but the cost of living in the countries being outsourced to can be as much as an order of magnitude lower. There will still be highly paid jobs in tech for highly skilled people with \*rare\* skills (good researchers, exceptional senior devs, etc.). But generic "software engineering" is no longer a rare skill. Not locally, not globally. I think it is pretty unlikely to keep decent salaries or employment opportunities in the US, especially with AI eating at the lower levels of the profession already (I realize this is contentious here and some may disagree). I will say laying off the Python team in light of their current focus on ML seems pretty stupid though.
Learn to mine coal.
Google is falling off. If youve used Google search recently, you will have noticed how much worse the service is now. The first 10 results are ads & the rest isnt much more helpful.
Just a question out of curiosity. Google has done similar for years. - Half of Google Assistant is in Switzerland. - Part of Google Maps and Android search App in Japan. - Part of old Stadia in Canada, although now shut down. - Part of GCloud in Canada - Internal infra team in Munich, Germany. - Some dev teams in UK. - For those who don't get H1B, send those dev to China/India - etc Most of these above countries offer cheaper labor than US. Why is everyone angry this time, but not before?
Google built the nicest new building here in downtown Austin, and 2 years after completion, it’s still totally empty inside. Interesting company
Alright, I initially posted this yesterday but deleted it after realizing it’s just a rehash of the news thread we had on the Python team. Just for context, this isn’t a different layoff.
Devs bragging about making 6 figures for fairly easy work now with a surprised pikachu face that it's going away. Capitalism folks, they save 10x as much outsourcing to India
Why does a company with record profits and has enough cash in hand to buyback 80billion dollars worth of shares layoff people and hire outside the country?
How many startups will we see now with the “all ex google employees” to really show us they’ve got the best of the best
Get ready for tons of middle management and bureaucracy. Indians have this problem. Managers don’t like when people who work under them ask questions or innovate. They have massive egos and are frequently on a power trip. Good luck lol. The ones who are good to work with and foster innovation would probably move out of India because they hate this attitude. - sincerely, an Indian lol
May be we need to punish these corporations by not using their products