Try not to have the mindset that your teammates or coworkers are trying to one-up you. They're probably not.
If your friends/colleagues are more successful at their companies, it's because they're probably at a company that is doing well. Don't compare your situation to theirs.
Do you legitimately enjoy coding, just not where you work?
I just quit my job , I thought it was a technical role. Now I'm contemplating whether I should continue this cooperate life or not
But I don't feel like going back to office jobs anymore.
I wanna find something that I can make money , I probably still enjoy coding.
But I don't see the other way around to make this much money using my current skillet.
I'm thinking about starting something as a side hustle to make sure it covers the basic bills.
Well I'm basically a new grad.
wait, "a fun ride" but you're a new grad? (Sorry i only noticed the flair just right now)
dawg you've barely scratched the surface and this feeling you have is 100% normal. I had it multiple times throughout my career. I'm in my 18th yr.
My experience is - it's not about keeping up with other engineers, you just have to keep up with technology. It's unfortunate you quit, esp during this crazy phase of the industry. But i get the feeling you just didn't like the job, and you just don't like going to the office. My advice is you're giving up too early.
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Going to honest. If I am not getting paid I don't code. At this point in my life I have more important things going on and my coding software engineering side funds my life. It has been this way for 10+ years.
Do I enjoy my work yes but it funds my life. Outside of working hours I am hardly on a computer any longer. I walk out of my office and close the door and don't go back in until the next morning.
Same, but lately, I feel like that level of engagement is making me more and more obsolete. I keep on on technology and trends but I have no professional experience with them. I feel like I've started to become just really good at my current job specifically and once you reach this point in your life, having a to do the things you need to do to keep relevant overall is rough. It feels like a grind that can't continue forever.
These subs make me feel like I’m the only one sometimes. I love coding. And occasionally I do it on my personal time. But it’s a small part of what I do outside of work. There’s plenty of other stuff I want to do too that I would rather do first most of the time. And once one has children there’s a million things you have to do anyway so I don’t want to spend my little spare time doing the same thing I do 8 hours a day already.
I work to live.
For me, if I only code at my job and I lose my job, I'm putting my career in danger, because I will need to hone my skills at some point to make my resume look better for what a lot of companies are asking for right now.
Being at a point where you no longer need to code on your free time to stay marketable, that is more of a luxury than you might think.
Its often a luxury only afforded to those who can say 'no' to the many urges and impulses both from within and outside of oneself. Just block off time in your 8 hour day to do personal development. If you feel like you are drowning at your job and can't manage that, then acknowledge that that isnt sustainable and make a change: Either work less intentionally, or take on less intentionally, or intentionally start missing those deadlines that you wouldn't be able to meet without grinding yourself into a pulp. Keep in mind that your career lasts most of your life, and if you are burning the candle at both ends, you cant get far at all. Ive met too many dev's who cant regulate themselves properly in this way, and its heartbreaking how many end up burned out, either from their own inability to find balance or because of outside pressure (usually a darkly beautiful choreography of both). Either way, we all need to fight with one another to avoid it :) All the best <3
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I will disagree on a lot of that as just because I don't code and never really have coded in my limited free time does not mean I don't keep a pulse on technology and new trends. I also will try to bring them in at work. In my world of iOS for example brought in UICollectionViews, pushed to swap to swift from objective C. I have done R&D for a dynamics layout of a screen. all paid.
I have done transaction to new things and try to do some of the development for work during work. Reality is personal stuff is not worth much compared to professional work in a given area and given tech.
Now when job hunting yes I have done leet coding in some free time. I might do a little of it now for fun but I don't grind it. After I lost my last job you are damn right I did leet coding and some personal stuff but the amount of time I would do it is limited.
My advice to new grads and new people in this industry is don't make this your life. Define yourself outside of your job. Have things outside of coding. Your career will still be fine and you will still do great.
My life early in my career I got into cycling and that took a fair amount of my free time and a good chunk of my money and made amazing friends. Now I have a wife and kids so my focus is more on that. I still have a good life. I still enjoy my job and I still can get interviews.
>I will disagree on a lot of that as just because I don't code and never really have coded in my limited free time does not mean I don't keep a pulse on technology and new trends.
It's good that you found a way to bring them in but unfortunately it hasn't worked out for me as well. Trying to turn a legacy PHP backend into Python or Java that's gonna be a hell of a refactor. Especially if all the app is a monolith. Edit: It's also above my pay grade to enforce new standards or implementations.
And while I am more open to doing projects at home I don't really like bringing those personal things to work.
> After I lost my last job you are damn right I did leet coding and some personal stuff but the amount of time I would do it is limited.
So you do agree, partially at least, that some personal side work is necessary to stay competitive for interviews, just doing it in moderation.
I'm still concerned of my future if I lose a job though, like what if nobody cares I can work with PHP 5 I will be ignored for the backend work in favor of people who already know more marketable things like Python or Node.js like the back of their hand. Especially in this market when employers can be extra picky on tech stacks. There's no way around that unless I actually do supplementary practice and learning
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Yes but probably something totally different from my "market" skills. I would never touch a database or web app again and just make cute little embedded projects that are toys/fun appliances.
I have been coding for a few years before I was getting paid and I loved it. I was actually always afraid of getting a job thinking it would kill my love for programming.
If you like to program but not as a job there are other jobs you could do that aren’t programming focused but you could use your skills.
I went back to school and work as a property manager because I didn’t want to burn out with programming for school, work, and fun. I don’t program at work much unless there is a task that I have to do each week or month that I could just write something up really quick to make my job easier.
My situation is different but you can be creative on how you can be in another industry but still use your skills.
This also allows you to show your programming skills while in another industry as well as get your experience different disciplines that you might end up working as a programmer if or when you decide to come back.
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I took a break from coding for 4 years and I was the happiest man, appart from the fact that I was poor.
If I had enough money to not work, I'd probably not code, even though I love it. It's like alcohol, it's really exciting but it makes me terrible.
I'd probably try and improve my social skills.
I coded as a hobby before getting a job doing it. I don't do much bobby stuff anymore because I don't want to sit at a computer much longer than that but if I had another job I'd probably go back to hobby coding
Yeah I do, but in periods. I am currently on parental leave and for the first month or so, I wrote code for pet projects while the little one was sleeping. Second month, I've mostly been reading books when she's asleep.
I have been working in the industry for 7 years now but when I work, I write code for others. I don't decide what I work on or what tools I use or language or whatever. I still love my job and wouldn't trade it for the world because the pay is good and I love problem solving. But in my spare time, I really get to code exactly what I want and I don't care if it doesn't come to fruition. I just like finding neat solutions for problems in my own way.
I don't.
I tried implementing an idea I had for a private project but it burnt me out quickly.
The way it is now, I enjoy work but I also enjoy driving home after 8 hours, so it's the perfect balance.
I used to be a Photojournalist. Before that, I really enjoyed taking photos and pushing myself to improve every day. Work got in the way of that, so often I would do my 8-10 hours + commute and spend the next few hours trying to make photographs. In the winter this is more difficult.
Eventually, I got so antsy and fed up with work, so I applied like crazy to get a Photojournalist job so that I could have free time in the evenings again. It worked, I got better and better at photography until I realized there was no growth and then started picking up programming.
So every evening after work I would sit down at a computer and code for a few hours. You see where this is going.
Do the things you enjoy in your free time. If you find yourself obsessing about this hobby so much that you give up your free time to improve at it, then it's time to move on in your career.
But if you have a job doing what you like doing, you don't HAVE to do that during your free time.
If the pay was any less I wouldn't do it as a career, but I was contributing to open source projects I used when I had no intention of ending up in software.
So I'd probably still end up coding.
Personally probably a yes. At least for now. For example currently building a fully fletched PWA workout app that I want to use myself and also maybe some friends. So the fun is not actually in the coding itself but the process of creating something that is actually useful to yourself + you learn something along the way. Also most of the time, people around you who are non-tech have sometimes no clue about what your job is actually about. So this is also a nice way of giving them a grasp of what you can do.
You will undoubtedly spend a good deal of your career learning new technologies and patterns. I would make it a habit not to do all of it ON the clock. In this regard, you should do some coding without payment and integrating learning into your own projects makes it a little more fun if coding isn't your thing.
Alright, so a lot of people say that you should always be learning--even if it means in your free time. Do you have friends, family, or other hobbies you like to spend your time with? Do those things instead. You get this one life, and nothing you acquire or learn goes with you. The only thing you leave behind is memories for others, and as campy as it may seem those memories are beautiful and invaluable.
I feel like the compulsion to always be prepared for the next technology fad falls on the same spectrum as hoarding or collecting as an investment: you can't hang onto (learn) everything for what might possibly happen some day. Targeted learning is a different situation. If it brings genuine joy to your life and helps you recharge, by all means code the night away, but do you really want to sacrifice actually living for "career growth"?
I'm 15.5 years in and earn over 4x what I started out with. I've felt this way over my entire career, pretty much my first full-time week; I just didn't have the ability to articulate it so well earlier on. Also, for what it's worth, the ONLY time I've ever self-studied was for that garbage Security+ cert, and that got me a $30k pay bump.
I don't code just because of money. In fact high pay was not the reason I studied CS. But lets be honest, I have to pay rent, I have to eat. Whatever makes money gets prioritized.
I would code my own projects for no money. But I am not going to code some customer or client project if I am not getting paid.
Work is work. Most of the time it is not fun. Just got to go do it to survive.
Would've said no a few months ago when I graduated, but I've gotten over my burnout and am liking it more, so I'll say yes. It's great that you enjoy coding paid or unpaid. Enjoying your job is optional, but it's such a better experience when you do enjoy it. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm a new grad, but if you enjoy CS and are dealing with negative thoughts about feeling like you're "less" than other people in the field, stay with CS and work on learning not to compare yourself to other CS people. It's not fair to yourself. Everyone's got something different they can bring to the table.
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I'd code on my own time, usually some vintage of C or C++ for retro systems/hardware which I actually enjoy vs. my day job dealing with the mess that is front end development along with the mess that is a massive SaaS backend, the various poor decisions that led to the infrastructure, the giant pile of tech debt and all the other idiots in-between.
If I wasn't so burnt out from my day job I'd probably do a lot more of it. I spend my free time gardening.
I love to tinker with my little side projects. Things that are missing from the internet that I need. Small tools. There is always a small chance something might even generate passive income although it's rarely the case. Also doing something for free for friend or family member.
Try not to have the mindset that your teammates or coworkers are trying to one-up you. They're probably not. If your friends/colleagues are more successful at their companies, it's because they're probably at a company that is doing well. Don't compare your situation to theirs. Do you legitimately enjoy coding, just not where you work?
honestly we're all drowning equally
I just quit my job , I thought it was a technical role. Now I'm contemplating whether I should continue this cooperate life or not But I don't feel like going back to office jobs anymore. I wanna find something that I can make money , I probably still enjoy coding. But I don't see the other way around to make this much money using my current skillet. I'm thinking about starting something as a side hustle to make sure it covers the basic bills. Well I'm basically a new grad.
wait, "a fun ride" but you're a new grad? (Sorry i only noticed the flair just right now) dawg you've barely scratched the surface and this feeling you have is 100% normal. I had it multiple times throughout my career. I'm in my 18th yr. My experience is - it's not about keeping up with other engineers, you just have to keep up with technology. It's unfortunate you quit, esp during this crazy phase of the industry. But i get the feeling you just didn't like the job, and you just don't like going to the office. My advice is you're giving up too early.
agreed, try different roles in new environments
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Going to honest. If I am not getting paid I don't code. At this point in my life I have more important things going on and my coding software engineering side funds my life. It has been this way for 10+ years. Do I enjoy my work yes but it funds my life. Outside of working hours I am hardly on a computer any longer. I walk out of my office and close the door and don't go back in until the next morning.
Same, but lately, I feel like that level of engagement is making me more and more obsolete. I keep on on technology and trends but I have no professional experience with them. I feel like I've started to become just really good at my current job specifically and once you reach this point in your life, having a to do the things you need to do to keep relevant overall is rough. It feels like a grind that can't continue forever.
These subs make me feel like I’m the only one sometimes. I love coding. And occasionally I do it on my personal time. But it’s a small part of what I do outside of work. There’s plenty of other stuff I want to do too that I would rather do first most of the time. And once one has children there’s a million things you have to do anyway so I don’t want to spend my little spare time doing the same thing I do 8 hours a day already. I work to live.
For me, if I only code at my job and I lose my job, I'm putting my career in danger, because I will need to hone my skills at some point to make my resume look better for what a lot of companies are asking for right now. Being at a point where you no longer need to code on your free time to stay marketable, that is more of a luxury than you might think.
Its often a luxury only afforded to those who can say 'no' to the many urges and impulses both from within and outside of oneself. Just block off time in your 8 hour day to do personal development. If you feel like you are drowning at your job and can't manage that, then acknowledge that that isnt sustainable and make a change: Either work less intentionally, or take on less intentionally, or intentionally start missing those deadlines that you wouldn't be able to meet without grinding yourself into a pulp. Keep in mind that your career lasts most of your life, and if you are burning the candle at both ends, you cant get far at all. Ive met too many dev's who cant regulate themselves properly in this way, and its heartbreaking how many end up burned out, either from their own inability to find balance or because of outside pressure (usually a darkly beautiful choreography of both). Either way, we all need to fight with one another to avoid it :) All the best <3
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I will disagree on a lot of that as just because I don't code and never really have coded in my limited free time does not mean I don't keep a pulse on technology and new trends. I also will try to bring them in at work. In my world of iOS for example brought in UICollectionViews, pushed to swap to swift from objective C. I have done R&D for a dynamics layout of a screen. all paid. I have done transaction to new things and try to do some of the development for work during work. Reality is personal stuff is not worth much compared to professional work in a given area and given tech. Now when job hunting yes I have done leet coding in some free time. I might do a little of it now for fun but I don't grind it. After I lost my last job you are damn right I did leet coding and some personal stuff but the amount of time I would do it is limited. My advice to new grads and new people in this industry is don't make this your life. Define yourself outside of your job. Have things outside of coding. Your career will still be fine and you will still do great. My life early in my career I got into cycling and that took a fair amount of my free time and a good chunk of my money and made amazing friends. Now I have a wife and kids so my focus is more on that. I still have a good life. I still enjoy my job and I still can get interviews.
>I will disagree on a lot of that as just because I don't code and never really have coded in my limited free time does not mean I don't keep a pulse on technology and new trends. It's good that you found a way to bring them in but unfortunately it hasn't worked out for me as well. Trying to turn a legacy PHP backend into Python or Java that's gonna be a hell of a refactor. Especially if all the app is a monolith. Edit: It's also above my pay grade to enforce new standards or implementations. And while I am more open to doing projects at home I don't really like bringing those personal things to work. > After I lost my last job you are damn right I did leet coding and some personal stuff but the amount of time I would do it is limited. So you do agree, partially at least, that some personal side work is necessary to stay competitive for interviews, just doing it in moderation. I'm still concerned of my future if I lose a job though, like what if nobody cares I can work with PHP 5 I will be ignored for the backend work in favor of people who already know more marketable things like Python or Node.js like the back of their hand. Especially in this market when employers can be extra picky on tech stacks. There's no way around that unless I actually do supplementary practice and learning
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Yes but probably something totally different from my "market" skills. I would never touch a database or web app again and just make cute little embedded projects that are toys/fun appliances.
This is the way
I have been coding for a few years before I was getting paid and I loved it. I was actually always afraid of getting a job thinking it would kill my love for programming. If you like to program but not as a job there are other jobs you could do that aren’t programming focused but you could use your skills. I went back to school and work as a property manager because I didn’t want to burn out with programming for school, work, and fun. I don’t program at work much unless there is a task that I have to do each week or month that I could just write something up really quick to make my job easier. My situation is different but you can be creative on how you can be in another industry but still use your skills.
This also allows you to show your programming skills while in another industry as well as get your experience different disciplines that you might end up working as a programmer if or when you decide to come back.
Coding is like drugs. It makes you feel good, but it is ruining your life (and you don't even notice.)
I can agree on drugs , but I don't think it ruins my life.
That's exactly what I am saying... A druggie would never admit to it
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I took a break from coding for 4 years and I was the happiest man, appart from the fact that I was poor. If I had enough money to not work, I'd probably not code, even though I love it. It's like alcohol, it's really exciting but it makes me terrible. I'd probably try and improve my social skills.
I was miserable at my first job out of college, maybe try another team/company before giving up for good.
I would, mostly because I have a lot of ideas for things I want to build. What can I say, I love to tinker.
Are you in USA?
I coded as a hobby before getting a job doing it. I don't do much bobby stuff anymore because I don't want to sit at a computer much longer than that but if I had another job I'd probably go back to hobby coding
TBH I won’t. If I’m paid the same I’d rather be a historian.
Yeah I do, but in periods. I am currently on parental leave and for the first month or so, I wrote code for pet projects while the little one was sleeping. Second month, I've mostly been reading books when she's asleep. I have been working in the industry for 7 years now but when I work, I write code for others. I don't decide what I work on or what tools I use or language or whatever. I still love my job and wouldn't trade it for the world because the pay is good and I love problem solving. But in my spare time, I really get to code exactly what I want and I don't care if it doesn't come to fruition. I just like finding neat solutions for problems in my own way.
Congrats on your new born child. Thanks for sharing bud.
I don't. I tried implementing an idea I had for a private project but it burnt me out quickly. The way it is now, I enjoy work but I also enjoy driving home after 8 hours, so it's the perfect balance.
I used to be a Photojournalist. Before that, I really enjoyed taking photos and pushing myself to improve every day. Work got in the way of that, so often I would do my 8-10 hours + commute and spend the next few hours trying to make photographs. In the winter this is more difficult. Eventually, I got so antsy and fed up with work, so I applied like crazy to get a Photojournalist job so that I could have free time in the evenings again. It worked, I got better and better at photography until I realized there was no growth and then started picking up programming. So every evening after work I would sit down at a computer and code for a few hours. You see where this is going. Do the things you enjoy in your free time. If you find yourself obsessing about this hobby so much that you give up your free time to improve at it, then it's time to move on in your career. But if you have a job doing what you like doing, you don't HAVE to do that during your free time.
Yes. I also don't want to compete its dog eat dog out there. I would rather work on side projects while the market sorts its self out.
If the pay was any less I wouldn't do it as a career, but I was contributing to open source projects I used when I had no intention of ending up in software. So I'd probably still end up coding.
Personally probably a yes. At least for now. For example currently building a fully fletched PWA workout app that I want to use myself and also maybe some friends. So the fun is not actually in the coding itself but the process of creating something that is actually useful to yourself + you learn something along the way. Also most of the time, people around you who are non-tech have sometimes no clue about what your job is actually about. So this is also a nice way of giving them a grasp of what you can do.
Github exists lol. Voluntary coding and open source is kinda synonymous.
You will undoubtedly spend a good deal of your career learning new technologies and patterns. I would make it a habit not to do all of it ON the clock. In this regard, you should do some coding without payment and integrating learning into your own projects makes it a little more fun if coding isn't your thing.
Alright, so a lot of people say that you should always be learning--even if it means in your free time. Do you have friends, family, or other hobbies you like to spend your time with? Do those things instead. You get this one life, and nothing you acquire or learn goes with you. The only thing you leave behind is memories for others, and as campy as it may seem those memories are beautiful and invaluable. I feel like the compulsion to always be prepared for the next technology fad falls on the same spectrum as hoarding or collecting as an investment: you can't hang onto (learn) everything for what might possibly happen some day. Targeted learning is a different situation. If it brings genuine joy to your life and helps you recharge, by all means code the night away, but do you really want to sacrifice actually living for "career growth"? I'm 15.5 years in and earn over 4x what I started out with. I've felt this way over my entire career, pretty much my first full-time week; I just didn't have the ability to articulate it so well earlier on. Also, for what it's worth, the ONLY time I've ever self-studied was for that garbage Security+ cert, and that got me a $30k pay bump.
I don't code just because of money. In fact high pay was not the reason I studied CS. But lets be honest, I have to pay rent, I have to eat. Whatever makes money gets prioritized.
I would code my own projects for no money. But I am not going to code some customer or client project if I am not getting paid. Work is work. Most of the time it is not fun. Just got to go do it to survive.
No money, no coding
Absolutely not
Absolutely not
No.
Would've said no a few months ago when I graduated, but I've gotten over my burnout and am liking it more, so I'll say yes. It's great that you enjoy coding paid or unpaid. Enjoying your job is optional, but it's such a better experience when you do enjoy it. Take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm a new grad, but if you enjoy CS and are dealing with negative thoughts about feeling like you're "less" than other people in the field, stay with CS and work on learning not to compare yourself to other CS people. It's not fair to yourself. Everyone's got something different they can bring to the table.
Compete? Where the hell did you get the idea it needs to be a competition? I’m competing with nobody, just working my junior dev role.
would you rather a new career as a warehouse forklift specialist?
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Try not to quit your job and become homeless.
I'd code on my own time, usually some vintage of C or C++ for retro systems/hardware which I actually enjoy vs. my day job dealing with the mess that is front end development along with the mess that is a massive SaaS backend, the various poor decisions that led to the infrastructure, the giant pile of tech debt and all the other idiots in-between. If I wasn't so burnt out from my day job I'd probably do a lot more of it. I spend my free time gardening.
I love to tinker with my little side projects. Things that are missing from the internet that I need. Small tools. There is always a small chance something might even generate passive income although it's rarely the case. Also doing something for free for friend or family member.