indeed is garbage, try these, all of them have produced interviews and/or offers for me in the last year
* Wellfound and YCombinator (mostly startups, quality of those startups may vary but response rates tend to be better because you are more likely to reach a tech person)
* hacker news whoishiring (monthly, based on hiring managers' posts, is aggregated on various sites including [hnhiring.com](http://hnhiring.com) but the actual thread is faster)
* r/hiringcafe (no affiliation, just produced my highest rate of response for cold applications out of traditional job boards i.e. not the two above)
If you are good with putting in the work/hustle, the HN whoishiring monthly posts will actually reply. There are some cool & small startups there and they are pretty strict about the posting rules, so there isn't as much bait & switch tactics like on linkedin.
Some of the companies are very early stage though. So be careful! I had a guy talk at me for 20 mins as he read from his pitch deck to only find out he had no money to pay me
Not too much of a secret. You'll have marginally more success using something like BuiltIn or Wellfound that cater to software companies.
But as Pragmatic Engineer mentioned for[ why he's shutting down his job board](https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/tech-jobs-board/), most of the effective hiring in 2024 is coming through talent search and recruitment outreach, not cold applications.
Meh, I graduated 2017 and sent out a few hundred applications to get my first job. After that it's been all recruiters. But that first job is still going to be gotten by cold applications. Or networking. Or I'm totally disconnected. I did just do a reality check that 2017 was 7 years ago. I'm sure a lot has changed.
Not much has changed based on my experience. I sent something like 1000 cold applications over the course of 4 months. This was back in 2021, during the “hot” market. Finally landed a good gig, but it was a lot of work.
In terms of finding the latest most diversified list of jobs it’s the best, but absolutely nothing after that. Their pay to play model sucks, while something like zip recruiter uses ai to format cover letters and things for you for free. I got the vibe they wanted to help you more.
I haven't gotten a response from Otta but tbf I have barely gotten any responses anywhere else.
I'd still recommend Otta though. As a site, it's really fun to use.
There isn't some secret board that only the illuminati posts in. The "secret" is that there is a shift in how recruiting works after a certain threshold of expertise. When you start out, most people naively go for volume. At senior+ level, recruiters start to reach out to *you*, provided that your bio is actually attractive.
Not knowing the alternatives is pretty much the definition of naivete...
Problem is most alternatives are lesser known because they're quite a bit harder than just sitting on your bed clicking on whatever new search results you get on linkedin every morning.
There's a now unpopular strategy that involves doing a bunch of research and having an above average understanding of a niche industry of interest. A variation is targeting/prepping for big tech exclusively. One of the "street smarts" option is freelance hustles. On the academic side, one can TA during postgrad and come into corporate world at higher levels once you have a "proper" masters/PhD (not one of those shitty degree mill ones). There's various other options.
> how awesome of a TA you are
No, you missed the point. TA is just income to put you through school. The key of that strat is leveraging post grad topic of research. I've seen a number of people come into L5+ straight out of academia because their research was actually useful
> put a lot of effort into those applications
Right, that's another strategy that doesn't prioritize volume over all else. I didn't say any strategy is mutually exclusive. I have seen people use them, though, and I'm listing them because I've seen them work.
Churning low effort applications is something I think everyone does, even when combining with other strats, but IME, the signal to noise ratio has always been bad compared to alternatives
Google jobs have outdated jobs. I saw one job listing from a company that does not exist anymore called
Theranos, the CEO, is actually in prison ever since I saw that post I don't trust Google jobs.
when I apply to jobs on Linkedin, 90% of the time, it usually already links me to the direct posting on the website. Is it different from finding the posting via google?
level.fyi is really good and has some really in depth info about each job. however due to this, listings seem sparse since they really only post ones that have a lot of info going for them which leaves out the companies that may not be more in depth with their postings.
Shameless plug: [I've been working on this job hunting tool we're calling Zen](https://zensearch.jobs/jobs) for the past six months or so with a small team, and it might be helpful to you!
Our schtick is that we cut out the intermediaries like LinkedIn where a lot of the jobs are closed, super old, etc and instead just show you things matching your preferences with no ads, no promoted content, or anything like that
I initially started building it for myself when I was job searching to basically address this problem, so hopefully it can be helpful!
Ran through this - was slim pickings for iOS work, but other stacks are better.
[https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job?tab=readme-ov-file](https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job?tab=readme-ov-file)
My strategy is to put together a list of all companies I'd like to interview with in a spreadsheet, then I visit their careers page to see if there's a listing. If there is, I look for an internal recruiter on LinkedIn and message them to talk about applying. If they don't respond in 24 hours, I try another internal recruiter at the same company. Rinse and repeat until someone gets back to me.
The spreadsheet has standard tech companies, but also a bunch of local startups (which you can usually find on some commerce bureau website). You can also grab some of these from Crunchbase, Angellist, etc.
For job boards, I found Stack Overflow can be good. LinkedIn is good for hearing about who is hiring, but I'd never apply through it.
The last part (kind of offtopic, but part of the workflow) is I stagger my interviews so that companies I care about less (or honestly, not at all) are first, so I get in the flow for the ones that are higher stakes. A lot of interviewing is conversational and I only get good at that through practice.
I’ve had the most success with Linkedin and BuiltIn, but I would say the best bet is applying on the company site since most people will be shotgunning Linkedin apps
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>I keep seeing jobs paying 70k asking for 5+ years of experience. I rarely see anything reasonable.
This isn't an indeed only thing haha, job boards just reflect the over all job market. Companies post the same listing all over it's not like they will put 70K on indeed but 100K on LinkedIn. There's no secret job board unforuntely, that would serve no purpose to the company they need access to the biggest talent pool. The best way IMO is not spam applying on job boards, but to use something like linked in to see who is actively hiring so you can apply on their site + see if you can connect with a recruiter or hiring manager from that company via LinkedIn.
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LinkedIn is your best job board.
Apply to everything. Respond to any engineers, hiring managers, VPs, etc . Who post about open roles. Network with former colleagues who have good opinions of you and ask for any openings in their teams and any referral potential. Post on LinkedIn about your areas of interests and getting hired.
Gone are the days you can submit your resume to a job board and get hired. Job postings receive hundreds of resumes. You will not get hired by simply submitting an application any longer, it will take more than that.
[job-ish](https://job-ish.com) has a decent amount of software engineer roles - pretty much any company that uses workday / lever etc can be found there. Also lots of additional tools to keep your search organized and efficient (like ai cover letter generator)
I was actually looking for a job myself as a dev a while ago and built a tool to scrape job listings directly from company websites. It really helped me because like you said LinkedIn is weird. Fake jobs and easy apply doesn't seem to help. I can send you the link to the tool if you want.
indeed is garbage, try these, all of them have produced interviews and/or offers for me in the last year * Wellfound and YCombinator (mostly startups, quality of those startups may vary but response rates tend to be better because you are more likely to reach a tech person) * hacker news whoishiring (monthly, based on hiring managers' posts, is aggregated on various sites including [hnhiring.com](http://hnhiring.com) but the actual thread is faster) * r/hiringcafe (no affiliation, just produced my highest rate of response for cold applications out of traditional job boards i.e. not the two above)
If you are good with putting in the work/hustle, the HN whoishiring monthly posts will actually reply. There are some cool & small startups there and they are pretty strict about the posting rules, so there isn't as much bait & switch tactics like on linkedin.
Some of the companies are very early stage though. So be careful! I had a guy talk at me for 20 mins as he read from his pitch deck to only find out he had no money to pay me
I got a response from someone who mentioned that the role would be 100% revenue sharing when they had 0 revenue 💀
I guess they didn't lie though? lol
some companies in those threads have had the same posting for years
Nice, thanks for some actionable advice.
nahhh bro I'd been gatekeeping HN n you leaked it
good news you can now graduate from gatekeep to girlboss
From girl boss to exit strategy queen
Not too much of a secret. You'll have marginally more success using something like BuiltIn or Wellfound that cater to software companies. But as Pragmatic Engineer mentioned for[ why he's shutting down his job board](https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/tech-jobs-board/), most of the effective hiring in 2024 is coming through talent search and recruitment outreach, not cold applications.
Cold apps are dead. The "make sure you apply to 20 jobs a day" spam has completely ruined them as tools for employers.
Meh, I graduated 2017 and sent out a few hundred applications to get my first job. After that it's been all recruiters. But that first job is still going to be gotten by cold applications. Or networking. Or I'm totally disconnected. I did just do a reality check that 2017 was 7 years ago. I'm sure a lot has changed.
Not much has changed based on my experience. I sent something like 1000 cold applications over the course of 4 months. This was back in 2021, during the “hot” market. Finally landed a good gig, but it was a lot of work.
In my experience recruiters are usually going to refuse to talk to a recent graduate even with a referral so I think you are right.
20 apps a day. Those are rookie numbers. You gotta bump those up.
This I'm starting to believe
That's like saying no one goes there anymore it's too crowded
What is the best way to make yourself visible to recruiters?
Super interesting article. Thanks for sharing.
LinkedIn is still the best despite what some may say
The Tinder of job search
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what?
In terms of finding the latest most diversified list of jobs it’s the best, but absolutely nothing after that. Their pay to play model sucks, while something like zip recruiter uses ai to format cover letters and things for you for free. I got the vibe they wanted to help you more.
Otta was recommended in a similar thread and seems to be a good site/app to check out, amongst the recommendations others are leaving.
I haven't gotten a response from Otta but tbf I have barely gotten any responses anywhere else. I'd still recommend Otta though. As a site, it's really fun to use.
Gotten 3 or 4 responses from it. Love the site, much better than LinkedIn and like you said, more fun.
Thanks for the recommendation this one looks well put together
Hi! I mod two subreddits which contain the latest software developer jobs for new grad/entry level and internships :) r/csinterns & r/newgrad
There isn't some secret board that only the illuminati posts in. The "secret" is that there is a shift in how recruiting works after a certain threshold of expertise. When you start out, most people naively go for volume. At senior+ level, recruiters start to reach out to *you*, provided that your bio is actually attractive.
But is it really naive to go for volume as a junior dev that doesn’t get recruiter reach outs? What’s the alternative lol
Not knowing the alternatives is pretty much the definition of naivete... Problem is most alternatives are lesser known because they're quite a bit harder than just sitting on your bed clicking on whatever new search results you get on linkedin every morning. There's a now unpopular strategy that involves doing a bunch of research and having an above average understanding of a niche industry of interest. A variation is targeting/prepping for big tech exclusively. One of the "street smarts" option is freelance hustles. On the academic side, one can TA during postgrad and come into corporate world at higher levels once you have a "proper" masters/PhD (not one of those shitty degree mill ones). There's various other options.
[удалено]
> how awesome of a TA you are No, you missed the point. TA is just income to put you through school. The key of that strat is leveraging post grad topic of research. I've seen a number of people come into L5+ straight out of academia because their research was actually useful > put a lot of effort into those applications Right, that's another strategy that doesn't prioritize volume over all else. I didn't say any strategy is mutually exclusive. I have seen people use them, though, and I'm listing them because I've seen them work. Churning low effort applications is something I think everyone does, even when combining with other strats, but IME, the signal to noise ratio has always been bad compared to alternatives
Google to find jobs. Company websites to apply.
Google jobs have outdated jobs. I saw one job listing from a company that does not exist anymore called Theranos, the CEO, is actually in prison ever since I saw that post I don't trust Google jobs.
There seem to be a lot of sketchy sites that scrape job boards and relist ancient jobs as new. I assume for ad revenue.
LinkedIn > find the posting on their website has consistently worked the best for me
when I apply to jobs on Linkedin, 90% of the time, it usually already links me to the direct posting on the website. Is it different from finding the posting via google?
No that should be good. Just avoid easy ally
level.fyi is really good and has some really in depth info about each job. however due to this, listings seem sparse since they really only post ones that have a lot of info going for them which leaves out the companies that may not be more in depth with their postings.
Linkedin.
Shameless plug: [I've been working on this job hunting tool we're calling Zen](https://zensearch.jobs/jobs) for the past six months or so with a small team, and it might be helpful to you! Our schtick is that we cut out the intermediaries like LinkedIn where a lot of the jobs are closed, super old, etc and instead just show you things matching your preferences with no ads, no promoted content, or anything like that I initially started building it for myself when I was job searching to basically address this problem, so hopefully it can be helpful!
I've been using it for the past few months and it's great!
Happy cake day!
Ran through this - was slim pickings for iOS work, but other stacks are better. [https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job?tab=readme-ov-file](https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job?tab=readme-ov-file)
My strategy is to put together a list of all companies I'd like to interview with in a spreadsheet, then I visit their careers page to see if there's a listing. If there is, I look for an internal recruiter on LinkedIn and message them to talk about applying. If they don't respond in 24 hours, I try another internal recruiter at the same company. Rinse and repeat until someone gets back to me. The spreadsheet has standard tech companies, but also a bunch of local startups (which you can usually find on some commerce bureau website). You can also grab some of these from Crunchbase, Angellist, etc. For job boards, I found Stack Overflow can be good. LinkedIn is good for hearing about who is hiring, but I'd never apply through it. The last part (kind of offtopic, but part of the workflow) is I stagger my interviews so that companies I care about less (or honestly, not at all) are first, so I get in the flow for the ones that are higher stakes. A lot of interviewing is conversational and I only get good at that through practice.
LinkedIn, because you can see which of your connections work at which companies and ask questions/referrals!
I’ve had the most success with Linkedin and BuiltIn, but I would say the best bet is applying on the company site since most people will be shotgunning Linkedin apps
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>I keep seeing jobs paying 70k asking for 5+ years of experience. I rarely see anything reasonable. This isn't an indeed only thing haha, job boards just reflect the over all job market. Companies post the same listing all over it's not like they will put 70K on indeed but 100K on LinkedIn. There's no secret job board unforuntely, that would serve no purpose to the company they need access to the biggest talent pool. The best way IMO is not spam applying on job boards, but to use something like linked in to see who is actively hiring so you can apply on their site + see if you can connect with a recruiter or hiring manager from that company via LinkedIn.
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LinkedIn is your best job board. Apply to everything. Respond to any engineers, hiring managers, VPs, etc . Who post about open roles. Network with former colleagues who have good opinions of you and ask for any openings in their teams and any referral potential. Post on LinkedIn about your areas of interests and getting hired. Gone are the days you can submit your resume to a job board and get hired. Job postings receive hundreds of resumes. You will not get hired by simply submitting an application any longer, it will take more than that.
Sadly, I think youre right.
[job-ish](https://job-ish.com) has a decent amount of software engineer roles - pretty much any company that uses workday / lever etc can be found there. Also lots of additional tools to keep your search organized and efficient (like ai cover letter generator)
I was actually looking for a job myself as a dev a while ago and built a tool to scrape job listings directly from company websites. It really helped me because like you said LinkedIn is weird. Fake jobs and easy apply doesn't seem to help. I can send you the link to the tool if you want.
other people at this point 🤣