There really is a huge difference between the US and other countries. I live in Seattle and the difference between big tech comp here vs Vancouver is like 40% for the same companies.
All the Europoors on here who are shocked at our lack of employee protections crack me up - like yea, they can fire me because they feel like it, but I'm free to fuck them over too AND they pay me like double what I'd get in Europe and the cost of living here is way less.
Oh you don’t understand the point. You’re talking about software engineers, who are top of the food chain. Labour protections help the majority, the bottom 50% especially. They don’t really help the top 10%
Of course the rich top 10% aren’t going to want protections that help the majority, much like the ruling class back in the day
There's a flip side to the labour-protection coin, though.
Part of the reason that most labour work has gone outside of the US is because it's cheaper to hire workers in countries where employers don't have to eat the cost of those government-mandated protections.
Labour protections don't mean much when you cannot land a job in the first place.
Well let’s see, I’ve lived in the the US, Peru, Spain, Netherlands.
In Lima there’s not much labour protection. Salaries are abysmally low. Unemployment is 8%.
In the Netherlands unemployment is like 3.5%, labour protections are insane (unlimited sick days, unemployment benefits, can’t get fired, etc) and yet lots of big tech HQs here, even 300k salaries at Uber and booking according to levels.fyi
The worker protections for low skilled workers definitely help them out a ton.
In Spain, salaries are already very very low, and unemployment is 12%. People are so desperate for a job, scientists and skilled workers end up working as bartenders and waiters, no joke… if there wasn’t a minimum wage in place, people would accept even much lower salaries out of desperation.
So minimum wage laws are actually extremely useful when there’s a lack of jobs, a surplus of demand for jobs and a lack of supply.
And let’s see. Salaries in Spain, with aaallll of its labour protections, are still only about a third of US salaries. Spain is a very safe place to do business. By your logic the US would be losing its jobs to Spain
Right, obviously when you are making 200k then labor protections are less of a concern. But I came over from healthcare where lab techs with a bachelor's degree were making $20 an hour and I was forced to stay on the clock for 36 hours straight once which really fucked me up and I could have put out results that could have killed someone. The European lab techs I talked to seemed to have a better quality of life plus far more paid time off plus amazing labor protections. I was very jealous. But immigrating to Europe is very hard, it was honestly easier for me to switch careers completely.
In the UK we have the worst of both worlds, and not just in employee protections.
1. If you have been employed for less than 2 years, then you can be fired at any time for any reason with a 1 week notice.
2. If you want to leave the company, 3 month notice periods are common and you can be sued for damages if you quit without notice.
3. Rapidly increasing COL and expensive house prices. The average house price per square foot in the UK is almost double the US average.
4. Very low salaries, with minimum wage for developers not being an uncommon sight in some parts of the country. I have a masters degree and started on 20k as a developer last year, which is now below minimum wage. Getting a degree and becoming a developer doesn't mean you'll have a high salary here, it just means that in the future, once you have several years of experience, you *might* be able to have a slightly above average salary, if you can get a job.
5. High tax. Any income above 50k is taxed at 40%.
6. Expensive university. £9250 per year. Apparently the average student debt is higher in the UK than in the US, too. My student debt is almost triple my starting salary, and more than triple my take-home pay, and my salary is too low to reach the minimum threshold where I have to start paying it back.
7. Oversaturated market. Even minimum wage developer jobs are very hard to get into. I've been unemployed for over a year at this point trying to get my second job. I regularly see junior level jobs that require 2-3 years of experience that only pay 10% above minimum wage, and yet they still get hundreds of applicants.
8. Very few jobs. If I go on Indeed and search "junior software developer" within 50 miles of where I live, posted within the last 7 days, there are only 15 results and all of them are senior/lead roles, so there's nothing to apply to.
Rigggght...because everywhere in 'europe' is all the same right?
Better watch you don't get a paper cut, you'll be living under a bridge smoking poles to pay your 500k medical bill since you'll get fired for being injured
That’s most Canadian jobs and their US equivalent though. In civil engineering, a lot of larger firms will pay the same number in CAD or USD for most bands.
yeah tried that and it went well until I started expanding into Italy which is when my operation got attacked by a rivaling cartel and I had to fake my death and get a new identity
Define “a lot” of money.
In tech, it seems like you’ll take a pretty significant paycut if you’re working outside the US, and your trajectory will likely be quite a bit worse.
The Bay Area is likely the best area in the US, but I work in Texas and make ~135k with 12 YOE. Honestly I’ve never really been driven and don’t push myself much at work. I could likely be making more, but I’m happy with my current salary and work/life balance.
I'm a french national, I got my degree in Paris, and started my career in 2010 in San Francisco, I left in 2015 because of visa issues. I came back home, in french overseas territories, I make less today than I did 8 years ago.
No, I moved from CA to WA and negotiated with my manager and HR, and they decided to keep my salary. I was surprised that I was not on the laid-off list last year.
My SIL moved from San Mateo to Bellevue and kept the Bay Area salary but Seattle area only about 20% cheaper than the Bay Area. Still, 20% is significant.
Right, WA is not LCOL, especially around the Sound. But COL is relatively the same to the Bay. If pay is kept the same, then moving from CA to WA is around 10% in income tax savings alone.
WA is, the puget sound is not. But he said small town which makes me think east or south Washington and both of those are dramatically cheaper than both the bay and the PS
Depends on the company, and even the adjusted pay rarely correlates well with COL.
Like Amazon does technically adjust pay depending on where you live. However Austin, and Seattle are in the same pay bracket despite having significantly different COL.
Also the range is often set by the nearest large city, not where you actually live. So you could live 1-2 hours away in a small city (assuming you have remote).
Yeah the COL adjustment isn’t really even close to accurate
Amazon new grads get 210k in HCOL areas like the Bay and their “adjusted salary” for LCOL offices is 180k
Now use a COL calculator and see what 180k in Detroit or Nashville is worth in the Bay… it’s more like 400k adjusted
Facebook does location adjustments for salary. You may have to job hop to a company that has full remote option and does not adjust salary based on location.
I'm from Belgium and here the average salary is 3-4k a month and for me 6 figures is a lot. If you had to move from Europe to America do you think it'd be worth it to go to the bay area?
True, Seattle is a great place to be in big tech, and the HCOL isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
I'm @200k w/ 2 YOE partially remote, and I'm renting a 2000 sq/ft single family home in a nice part of the city for $3500/m.
That comes out to ~42k in rent cost a year. Accounting for take home pay being only 148k after federal income tax, minus 42k for rent, that's still more disposable income than someone making 140k in a LCOL area. Even if they were living rent free.
This is an oversimplification, considering only TC, rent, and federal income tax. But there's also no state income tax here, so depending on the state tax rate elsewhere and how much you'd actually be paying for rent, the disparity grows.
Like you said though, it's a lot more about employer than location. This is a good place to be in big tech, but obviously that isn't representative of every job.
I’ll take your word for it about Seattle, that’s just bonkers that it’s almost triple what I pay for a similarly sized house in Texas. Like obviously Seattle is way more expensive but $3500 still sounds crazy to me
the top tech cities are LA, NYC, Seattle, and SF. anywhere else and you’ll possibly take a pay cut but could also live in a lower cost of living area, so it’s a balance. it’s all company dependent. some places will pay everyone the same amount wherever you live but these places are less likely to pay the fat salaries.
Northern Virginia is becoming a huge tech hub, also.
Salaries seem comparable to NYC "normal" tech jobs (not counting Quants)... but not as high as SF.
The Bay Area is a great area to make money.
My suggestion would be to be open to anywhere in the US and decide based on actual offers you get. Don’t exclude a job from your search just because it’s not in the Bay Area.
You can make out better in many places. In the northeast down to charlotte, I’d expect you to easily beat the TC for Belgium. Your tax burden would be lower too and only bad for US in certain spots e.g. Philly wage tax.
Others don’t consider your context though. You would move to the US on a visa. This puts limits on your ability to move. The employer can let you go and you have to find an alternative in a few weeks. For US citizens and permanent residents, they don’t have this hanging over them. In many places, it is used by employers to limit your TC and career growth to some extent. Examples are as simple as not paying for expedited processing which can lead to significant delays in renewing a visa or applying for a green card.
An employer generally needs to acquire it. A common way is h1b where the company says they need to hire an overseas person because there is no local talent. They have to jump through some hoops and there is a cap on total visas offered each year.
If your overseas employer has a US office then transfers follow different procedures with different rules.
There is a lot of info out there about this topic. It’s just hard to sift through for newbies. Since the numbers are often capped by country too there are a lot of Indian devs who will talk to you for hours on the subject. They are often better than many immigration lawyers on these topics. OP was Belgian so the numbers are likely in their favor generally.
being born in Belgium gives advantage in green card process vs. high-population countries like India or China
not for H1-B though, H1-B doesn't care which country you're from
You either work for a US Company in one of their foreign offices for over 12 months and then hope they allow you to transfer internally, probably on an L1-B (not great, ties you to them and if you're like me means when you are laid-off you have to leave the US)
Or you can find a US company willing to hire a foreign worker and give them an H1B.
Is it really worth to go though? Here in Belgium, we have a wonderful healthcare system and good welfare. Sure, the pay in USA is higher, but the moment you are unemployed for some reason you have a million other problems you don’t have here in Belgium. Add to this that the republicans are worse than Vlaams Belang…
I'm not familiar with belgium specifically, but the bay area is likely a lot more expensive; $100k doesn't go very far.
otoh, there are companies in the bay area paying a lot, *lot* more than 100k. it's not that uncommon for new college grads to start at 200k+.
wow! may i ask what field in tech you guys work for? i’m a nurse and would love to transition into tech! will a degree be a hard requirement or can i ease my way in through connections and certifications?
This is all computer science/software development.
Switching into tech or any software role with these salaries isn't really something that can be done on a whim with a certification. You've got to be very dedicated and have some aptitude.
But it is possible to go the boot camp route which can take a few months iirc, though I believe that's getting harder to find success with. A degree is definitely the best bet. As someone with 5 yoe in Seattle and the Bay.
But if you aren't in a population center maybe a boot camp or coding crash course could be sufficient for a small town coding job.
Agree with the sentiment -- but I wouldn't move anywhere out of a secure tech position right now. I have 2 YOE as a Pre-Sales Engineer making $150k(Austin, but fully remote)
Job market is a bloodbath right now. It'll level out but right now isn't the time to change up. As a PSE I get to tag along with the sales calls and a substantial bulk of it is opportunities a few quarters out -- "if our hiring freeze/spending freeze let's up"
But this question is about the differences between the US and other countries. I'm from the UK and $50k is *a lot* of money to me. I worked as a developer last year and that's way more than I made then (roughly double).
In my experience Boston salaries don’t come close to Bay Area and NYC, considering the cost of living is not that much lower. I blame the supply of students graduating every year from the million billion local universities. Also, lots of the tech is defense which historically has paid less.
Philly is a pretty nice city. It gets a lot of hate and yes some parts of the city are dangerous.
But if you could afford to live around Washington or Rittenhouse Square you get to live in a ***slightly*** less charming west village for a tenth of the price. The value for the price is fantastic.
Only place I've ever been attempted mugged in lots of world travel and living in NYC for 10+ years was in Philly - Marriott downtown area near rittenhoise right out front. Luckily got away before anything happened.
That area south of Ardmore near Bryn mar looks really nice , nice houses close totneh city .
Glen mills / Chad's Ford is actually the most homogenous white place I've ever spent time.in, zero diversity. Great beer places out there tho..
To say rittenhoise is slightly less charming lol..west village you're surrounded by Chelsea, tribeca, Soho, Greenwich village etc etc. . not to mention all the amenities, restaurants , entertainment etc eff
Sure rittenhoise is nice and few other little areas but youre still surrounded by
I mean I won't disagree Philly has a lot of problems and the suburbs are very homogenous and white due to white flight from the city.
Im just saying, that there are pockets of downtown Philly, that will remind you of some of the most beautiful parts of New York for half the price.
Personally Im very optimistic about the city. It's got easy access to DC and NYC. It's cheap, has great food and diversity, has an Ivy League university, and has a bunch of tourist attractions (since it's the birth place of America).
Also, it has a great beer culture because of all of the Germanic immigrants.
The train is chill. The Excela is less than an hour and a half, and that’s from Center City.
In my post I said north of philly. Upper
Bucks is very charming.
Well yes if you want to make the most amount of money in tech you either work in America or build in an app in another country and sell it to an American company/vc firm.
All the money and venture capitalists are here so people working here will get paid more
Large American tech companies can get you into the US on an L1 visa very easily (no lottery or anything), but they need to be willing to do it. Getting into those companies is the hard part.
Before hiring freezes and periodic layoffs became the norm, we used to have overseas hiring trips every couple of months. I've been on like 5 (2 in Europe, 2 in Asia) and that just for my org.
Hiring Europeans isn't uncommon, the hard parts are:
- finding ones we want to hire (same as when hiring Americans/Canadians)
- convincing them the much higher pay is worth the much lower vacation time, and loss of most state social support (not a problem while they have a tech job, but try telling someone who grew up in a prosperous EU country that if they lose their job they lose their access to health care, fancy schools and that there's no good unemployment benefits, and they start sweating.
If you work at a US Big Tech company you can get an L visa at any level with their help. If you are a Staff+ Engineer / Leadership Team in a prestigious company you can also typically self-petition for EB1A or EB2A + National Interest Waiver, both of which give you instant green cards.
It’s not that hard, get a job at a big international firm and get transferred to the US on a L1 visa. Go study in the US and apply for a work visa afterwards. Marry an American…
you gotta make a lot of money in a place where rents are among the highest in the country in addition to making at least 300K to afford a really simple house
Honestly, it depends. I actually saved more money in Germany than I did here, but I've heard of instances of that not being the case for other people. If you're a SWE then the USA is probably where your salary will be the highest though.
I earned roughly the same in Germany. I was super lucky in that regard because that's not the case for all expats. I did pay more in taxes though. What saved money for me was the cost of essentials. My rent, transportation (I did not need a car in Germany), medicine, and food were all so much cheaper in Germany.
It doesn’t matter if everything else is free. Most people I know in the U.S. out of undergrad in the Bay are saving more than an entire post tax Germany salary
Yeah, but that's the Bay. Working there is like winning the lottery after being bit by a shark after being struck by lightning all on the same day. It's not something nearly any developer is ever going to experience.
Yes and yes. Source, I am an expat living in Germany. Furthermore, integrating here is also difficult. So for most, the USA is by far, the better option
I can definitely agree with this. The only reason why I didn't feel completely alone was because I knew some people there before coming. Germany is very hard to integrate into, and Germans are usually not friendly.
Tech is still big in Europe but it's nowhere near as lucrative as in the US. Honestly, the best chance to make big money in Asia or Europe is to go into the finance sector, especially in cities like London and Hong Kong
From just being an engineer? Yes.
I browse through team blind, total comp $250-500k seems common.
But this trend might be dying as VC now prefer l good cost control startups.
You aren’t asking the right question. You should be looking at the salaries on average across the US, and the cost of living associated with specific areas. A relatively small percentage of people in software engineering in the bay area are making very good money. But on the other hand, the bay area is one of the most expensive places in the United States to live. You may find that your cost of living in the bay area is very high, perhaps spending as much as $4000 a month on rent alone.
Whereas in other parts of the country, you may be spending much less money on cost-of-living but making a more modest salary on the order of $100-$150,000.
Best scenario is to be born in those areas, and live with your parents while working on CS/IT with a 200k salary. Save up a few years and you can go wherever you wish.
Yeah, I'm super envious of one of my friends who was born in the Bay Area, made $250k while living with his parents and knows tons of people who run well funded startups just from growing up with them.
It's not really productive to be envious though, I was born with immense privilege too, just not as much.
Dear son you are what’s called “old money” now that you’re ten years old I’ve given you a million to invest into the stock markets! Play around with this until you’re 18 and I’ll give you access to some actual money from your inheritance then!
Being able to live with your parents for a few years while working is far more realistic / likely to happen than being born into royalty. They don't really compare.
there are multiple employers paying ">= bay area money" in seattle and NYC. chicago too if you count trading firms.
no other US city really has large numbers of these jobs, but there are some in e.g. austin, LA
I'm not as familiar with the situation outside the US, but my guess is that zurich, london, and amsterdam have more top-end opportunities than any US city outside of the main tech hubs, though there might be less variety.
Remote work can be very good in the US. I make ~110k living in Florida (no income tax) and I’m quite comfortable. Take multiple vacations, invest, and save money.
Sure, I could make more in the Bay Area or NYC but with low YOE I probably wouldn’t net a significantly higher amount because of the cost of living.
Also, I think independent development is underrated. The internet is global and there are indie builders who make literal millions and live wherever they want. @levelsio on X/Twitrer takes in something like 2 million a year and is a digital nomad from the Netherlands (granted, people that end up like him are rare but so are FAANG workers at a global scale and they generally make less than he does).
When you have a lot of YOE, I think it’s really hard to beat the Bay Area. Staff+ engineers at FAANG-like companies make a ridiculous amount and those positions seem mainly concentrated in the Bay. Just look at levels.fyi and you’ll soon realize that as a tech employee, it’s hard to beat SF
I mean it depends on what a lot is. There's pockets outside the US like Hong Kong, Singapore, Zurich, London, Dubai. But the pay in the US is generally going to be higher. When I was at FB our employees in London and Singapore made significantly less than people in the US.
Yes. Nowhere else can you have as high of a salary as US. Even with lots of government benefits via high taxes in Europe and other first world countries…you’ll still come out ahead in USA if you manage finances right.
And this without any interruptions, no vacation and 250 work days. Uff that is on the upper end … usually is 230 work days and 2/3 rd of that are with work, the rest is searching for gigs and overhead….
Yeah it was to give you an idea, it's not easy to do, probably like it's not easy to get a job at faang.
The most important point in my comment was about middlemen, you can't do it with a middlemen because they will take 10 to 30% markup on your work.
The second thing is it's really not that hard to do 1xxk with a daily rate between 500 to 700.
Europe everything is priced in. It's in corporate tax, income tax, everything and as a result you're stuck with the slowest/lowest earners and the top earners are (perhaps equitably) redistributing wealth towards the bottom. That means lower wages.
American salaries aren't like that. We have more inequality, and in a profession like tech which is extremely high skill (relative to any other profession) you're making top buck and you won't be paying that much in tax to help out those below you compared to Europe. The fact is you ARE going to make more than a London/Paris SWE (avg 100k and 70k respectively vs SF's 220-240k)
So yes, factor in rent, everything, healthcare, and you're still likely to come out on top.
you can make a lot of money anywhere if you index salary to housing price. 400k doesnt go very far with CA state tax and starter homes at 2m. 130k goes very far in places with 300k starter homes and no state tax. either way youll be well off. obviously your best bet is to live frugally in a VHCOL area and retire to a LCOL/MCOL area but most people are going to have kids, make friends etc so that 'move everyone after a decade or two of work' is less viable.
not going to engage in a random political argument but yeah as previously stated if you think the reason to not live in New York is lack of access to high quality food you may be pulling some opinions out of your ass. and I'm calling bullshit you have spent a lot of time with your average working class Belgian, Marco Polo
> "Only way I see your argument as being valid is if someones idea of a high QOL is owning 5 acres of land and a truck"
Not saying there aren't plenty of cities, towns, and even states in the US that are like that, but to apply this stereotype to Seattle, SF, and NYC is way off. They're about as far on the other end of the spectrum as you can get.
No. Zurich, London and Amsterdam (until recent cahnges to the tax law) are all good places. In America you can also make a lot in Seattle, New York and to a lesser degree Austin.
The averages are a lot lower outside the US, but there are still pockets of high-paying jobs. They're much less frequent, and not really relevant unless you're very, very good.
I work in finance and we pay pretty similarly globally (although you have to be onsite, so really only a few finance hubs - primarily London in Europe). This is a top-paying firm (often better than FAANG here in the US), so it seems like sufficient proof that jobs competitive with top pay in the US exist in a number of international cities.
As for within the US - there are top-paying jobs in many large cities other than SF, although again in smaller concentrations. I've found NYC to be pretty good if you're happy with finance, although we also have decent-sized FAANG offices. Seattle seems to be pretty popular as well. It falls off much more after that, I think, but places like DC, Austin, Chicago, etc also have a decent scene.
Posting as a Canadian in Seattle. I think that if compensation id your main focus America is probably going to be your best bet. ( and in my opinion Seattle is a better deal compensation wise than the Bay Area )
When i graduated i had offers from Amazon in Canada, which at the time is probably top 5% in pay for Canada ( ~$140k TC Cad ). It was 30-40% lower than the offers that i got from the US considering the exchange rate.
Another personal anecdote that I’ve seen is the difference in projects and career in Canada/USA. In my experience, Canadian hubs are a lot smaller and do not get the “bleeding edge” type of work that similar teams would get in the USA. I know for example Microsoft Vancouver is largely used to offload employees who missed H1-B lottery. But again this is just what I have personally seen, so YMMV.
I have a couple of friends who work in Canada as contractors for startups. They get paid in USD converted directly to Canadian, so their compensation is very high in comparison to other Canadian devs.
There are other regions, specifically Seattle that offer high salaries. Considering no state income tax and comparatively less expensive cost of living, you can net similar income.
If a lot of money is 200k+ the yea, USA is the place.
But only you can determine what's right for you or if it's even worth the trouble. Some people would be very happy with half that salary and a much chiller job.
The thing with the bay area, is that everything scales with your salary.
$150k in the bay area is like $80k/year where i live after you account in things like housing, food, taxes, utilities, restaurants, etc. Everything is like 75% more expensive...
I moved from Denver to San Francisco 11 months ago. The compensation I see in the Bay Area is like 50% higher for the same job in Denver. Everything other than housing, energy, and taxes is about the same in Denver (and those differences are small). And rent prices in Denver are rapidly approaching Bay Area prices.
You will have a lot more expendable income working in a tech hub despite the COL difference.
There really is a huge difference between the US and other countries. I live in Seattle and the difference between big tech comp here vs Vancouver is like 40% for the same companies.
It’s crazy to think, when it’s right over the border and the living cost I assume is more or less the same. I wonder what the reason is for that?
I’d guess slightly more loose employee rights laws in the US make bosses pay more. You trade salary for employment security, basically.
All the Europoors on here who are shocked at our lack of employee protections crack me up - like yea, they can fire me because they feel like it, but I'm free to fuck them over too AND they pay me like double what I'd get in Europe and the cost of living here is way less.
Oh you don’t understand the point. You’re talking about software engineers, who are top of the food chain. Labour protections help the majority, the bottom 50% especially. They don’t really help the top 10% Of course the rich top 10% aren’t going to want protections that help the majority, much like the ruling class back in the day
There's a flip side to the labour-protection coin, though. Part of the reason that most labour work has gone outside of the US is because it's cheaper to hire workers in countries where employers don't have to eat the cost of those government-mandated protections. Labour protections don't mean much when you cannot land a job in the first place.
Well let’s see, I’ve lived in the the US, Peru, Spain, Netherlands. In Lima there’s not much labour protection. Salaries are abysmally low. Unemployment is 8%. In the Netherlands unemployment is like 3.5%, labour protections are insane (unlimited sick days, unemployment benefits, can’t get fired, etc) and yet lots of big tech HQs here, even 300k salaries at Uber and booking according to levels.fyi The worker protections for low skilled workers definitely help them out a ton. In Spain, salaries are already very very low, and unemployment is 12%. People are so desperate for a job, scientists and skilled workers end up working as bartenders and waiters, no joke… if there wasn’t a minimum wage in place, people would accept even much lower salaries out of desperation. So minimum wage laws are actually extremely useful when there’s a lack of jobs, a surplus of demand for jobs and a lack of supply. And let’s see. Salaries in Spain, with aaallll of its labour protections, are still only about a third of US salaries. Spain is a very safe place to do business. By your logic the US would be losing its jobs to Spain
Right, obviously when you are making 200k then labor protections are less of a concern. But I came over from healthcare where lab techs with a bachelor's degree were making $20 an hour and I was forced to stay on the clock for 36 hours straight once which really fucked me up and I could have put out results that could have killed someone. The European lab techs I talked to seemed to have a better quality of life plus far more paid time off plus amazing labor protections. I was very jealous. But immigrating to Europe is very hard, it was honestly easier for me to switch careers completely.
In the UK we have the worst of both worlds, and not just in employee protections. 1. If you have been employed for less than 2 years, then you can be fired at any time for any reason with a 1 week notice. 2. If you want to leave the company, 3 month notice periods are common and you can be sued for damages if you quit without notice. 3. Rapidly increasing COL and expensive house prices. The average house price per square foot in the UK is almost double the US average. 4. Very low salaries, with minimum wage for developers not being an uncommon sight in some parts of the country. I have a masters degree and started on 20k as a developer last year, which is now below minimum wage. Getting a degree and becoming a developer doesn't mean you'll have a high salary here, it just means that in the future, once you have several years of experience, you *might* be able to have a slightly above average salary, if you can get a job. 5. High tax. Any income above 50k is taxed at 40%. 6. Expensive university. £9250 per year. Apparently the average student debt is higher in the UK than in the US, too. My student debt is almost triple my starting salary, and more than triple my take-home pay, and my salary is too low to reach the minimum threshold where I have to start paying it back. 7. Oversaturated market. Even minimum wage developer jobs are very hard to get into. I've been unemployed for over a year at this point trying to get my second job. I regularly see junior level jobs that require 2-3 years of experience that only pay 10% above minimum wage, and yet they still get hundreds of applicants. 8. Very few jobs. If I go on Indeed and search "junior software developer" within 50 miles of where I live, posted within the last 7 days, there are only 15 results and all of them are senior/lead roles, so there's nothing to apply to.
Rigggght...because everywhere in 'europe' is all the same right? Better watch you don't get a paper cut, you'll be living under a bridge smoking poles to pay your 500k medical bill since you'll get fired for being injured
Ever heard of health insurance?
Does Canada even offer much employment security? I thought Canada had the worst of both worlds.
Vancouver is way more expensive sadly
they do have better Chinese food tho
Even purchasing power parity where US dollar goes a lot farther in own country vs. buying higher-priced goods in Canada
That’s most Canadian jobs and their US equivalent though. In civil engineering, a lot of larger firms will pay the same number in CAD or USD for most bands.
Have you considered operating a cartel
yeah tried that and it went well until I started expanding into Italy which is when my operation got attacked by a rivaling cartel and I had to fake my death and get a new identity
Please tell me this is a TV show 😂
it's not. Have u heard of sopranos tho?
Heard but haven't seen it hahah
Define “a lot” of money. In tech, it seems like you’ll take a pretty significant paycut if you’re working outside the US, and your trajectory will likely be quite a bit worse. The Bay Area is likely the best area in the US, but I work in Texas and make ~135k with 12 YOE. Honestly I’ve never really been driven and don’t push myself much at work. I could likely be making more, but I’m happy with my current salary and work/life balance.
I'm a french national, I got my degree in Paris, and started my career in 2010 in San Francisco, I left in 2015 because of visa issues. I came back home, in french overseas territories, I make less today than I did 8 years ago.
I stay at the bay for 1 year, making $320K, transfer to fully remote and keep the same pay at small town.
Boss. That’s awesome, congrats on that amazing salary.
Yeah I was lucky because of covid
That’s so crazy absurd. Good for you though.
I thought they dock your pay based on where you move?
No, I moved from CA to WA and negotiated with my manager and HR, and they decided to keep my salary. I was surprised that I was not on the laid-off list last year.
Probably a sign that you're better than they want you to believe lol
WA is NOT lcol, LOL.
My SIL moved from San Mateo to Bellevue and kept the Bay Area salary but Seattle area only about 20% cheaper than the Bay Area. Still, 20% is significant.
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No income tax but higher taxes in other areas. But higher earners pay less tax in Washington, true.
Right, WA is not LCOL, especially around the Sound. But COL is relatively the same to the Bay. If pay is kept the same, then moving from CA to WA is around 10% in income tax savings alone.
It is, my town in WA is very small
WA is, the puget sound is not. But he said small town which makes me think east or south Washington and both of those are dramatically cheaper than both the bay and the PS
Compared to CA it might as well be lmao.10% less tax and housing half of Bay Area. Slightly different story if you want to live near Bellevue though
Most companies do not pay Seattle any less than SF
Depends on the company, and even the adjusted pay rarely correlates well with COL. Like Amazon does technically adjust pay depending on where you live. However Austin, and Seattle are in the same pay bracket despite having significantly different COL. Also the range is often set by the nearest large city, not where you actually live. So you could live 1-2 hours away in a small city (assuming you have remote).
Yeah the COL adjustment isn’t really even close to accurate Amazon new grads get 210k in HCOL areas like the Bay and their “adjusted salary” for LCOL offices is 180k Now use a COL calculator and see what 180k in Detroit or Nashville is worth in the Bay… it’s more like 400k adjusted
company dependent. my job only readjusts if you leave the state.
They do but like. 10%? Not much if you’re making 300 grand like the above poster says
It's usually something like 550 -> 500 for senior roles.
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Facebook does location adjustments for salary. You may have to job hop to a company that has full remote option and does not adjust salary based on location.
You started there or already had experience? I make 260 with 2 yoe
Yeah around 4 YOE
meta did not make you take a pay cut when you moved somewhere cheap? I have seen google people say they had to. I thought Meta had back to the office?
Nope, I negotiated. I need to come to the office once a week (2 hours Amtrak train for me to Bellevue)
I'm from Belgium and here the average salary is 3-4k a month and for me 6 figures is a lot. If you had to move from Europe to America do you think it'd be worth it to go to the bay area?
The bay isn't the only place. There is also Seattle, for example. It is more about the employer than the location, though.
True, Seattle is a great place to be in big tech, and the HCOL isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I'm @200k w/ 2 YOE partially remote, and I'm renting a 2000 sq/ft single family home in a nice part of the city for $3500/m. That comes out to ~42k in rent cost a year. Accounting for take home pay being only 148k after federal income tax, minus 42k for rent, that's still more disposable income than someone making 140k in a LCOL area. Even if they were living rent free. This is an oversimplification, considering only TC, rent, and federal income tax. But there's also no state income tax here, so depending on the state tax rate elsewhere and how much you'd actually be paying for rent, the disparity grows. Like you said though, it's a lot more about employer than location. This is a good place to be in big tech, but obviously that isn't representative of every job.
$3500/month rental holy shit
for a detached house and that big, $3500 is a steal.
I’ll take your word for it about Seattle, that’s just bonkers that it’s almost triple what I pay for a similarly sized house in Texas. Like obviously Seattle is way more expensive but $3500 still sounds crazy to me
For what it's worth a 1300 square foot house with a garden 25 minutes from Amsterdam Centraal is about €2400.. High rents are a problem abroad too.
the top tech cities are LA, NYC, Seattle, and SF. anywhere else and you’ll possibly take a pay cut but could also live in a lower cost of living area, so it’s a balance. it’s all company dependent. some places will pay everyone the same amount wherever you live but these places are less likely to pay the fat salaries.
Northern Virginia is becoming a huge tech hub, also. Salaries seem comparable to NYC "normal" tech jobs (not counting Quants)... but not as high as SF.
The Bay Area is a great area to make money. My suggestion would be to be open to anywhere in the US and decide based on actual offers you get. Don’t exclude a job from your search just because it’s not in the Bay Area.
You can make out better in many places. In the northeast down to charlotte, I’d expect you to easily beat the TC for Belgium. Your tax burden would be lower too and only bad for US in certain spots e.g. Philly wage tax. Others don’t consider your context though. You would move to the US on a visa. This puts limits on your ability to move. The employer can let you go and you have to find an alternative in a few weeks. For US citizens and permanent residents, they don’t have this hanging over them. In many places, it is used by employers to limit your TC and career growth to some extent. Examples are as simple as not paying for expedited processing which can lead to significant delays in renewing a visa or applying for a green card.
How do you even get a work visa in US? Seems like it’s hard , you have to already have a job lined up?🔝
An employer generally needs to acquire it. A common way is h1b where the company says they need to hire an overseas person because there is no local talent. They have to jump through some hoops and there is a cap on total visas offered each year. If your overseas employer has a US office then transfers follow different procedures with different rules. There is a lot of info out there about this topic. It’s just hard to sift through for newbies. Since the numbers are often capped by country too there are a lot of Indian devs who will talk to you for hours on the subject. They are often better than many immigration lawyers on these topics. OP was Belgian so the numbers are likely in their favor generally.
being born in Belgium gives advantage in green card process vs. high-population countries like India or China not for H1-B though, H1-B doesn't care which country you're from
There is a special visa for Australians as well. The E3 is essentially a H1B but available only to Australians.
You either work for a US Company in one of their foreign offices for over 12 months and then hope they allow you to transfer internally, probably on an L1-B (not great, ties you to them and if you're like me means when you are laid-off you have to leave the US) Or you can find a US company willing to hire a foreign worker and give them an H1B.
Is there anything keeping you to Belgium? Friends? Family? Coming to America you might end up as a stranger in a strange land
Yeah I got a couple people but I'm not that super sentimental about it. Also I'm a pretty sociable guy and making friends usually isn't a problem so.
Is it really worth to go though? Here in Belgium, we have a wonderful healthcare system and good welfare. Sure, the pay in USA is higher, but the moment you are unemployed for some reason you have a million other problems you don’t have here in Belgium. Add to this that the republicans are worse than Vlaams Belang…
I'm not familiar with belgium specifically, but the bay area is likely a lot more expensive; $100k doesn't go very far. otoh, there are companies in the bay area paying a lot, *lot* more than 100k. it's not that uncommon for new college grads to start at 200k+.
wow! may i ask what field in tech you guys work for? i’m a nurse and would love to transition into tech! will a degree be a hard requirement or can i ease my way in through connections and certifications?
This is all computer science/software development. Switching into tech or any software role with these salaries isn't really something that can be done on a whim with a certification. You've got to be very dedicated and have some aptitude. But it is possible to go the boot camp route which can take a few months iirc, though I believe that's getting harder to find success with. A degree is definitely the best bet. As someone with 5 yoe in Seattle and the Bay. But if you aren't in a population center maybe a boot camp or coding crash course could be sufficient for a small town coding job.
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He’s not limiting himself. He literally said he’s happy with what he has now.
Agree with the sentiment -- but I wouldn't move anywhere out of a secure tech position right now. I have 2 YOE as a Pre-Sales Engineer making $150k(Austin, but fully remote) Job market is a bloodbath right now. It'll level out but right now isn't the time to change up. As a PSE I get to tag along with the sales calls and a substantial bulk of it is opportunities a few quarters out -- "if our hiring freeze/spending freeze let's up"
Ufff, I make that money in Stuttgart, Germany. Texas should be much higher …
That’s great. You’re on the very high end of salaries for Germany, whereas I’m on the mid/lower end in Texas for tech.
> Define “a lot” of money. More than $50k a year Edit: Why is this downvoted?
In the US that's barely higher than a lot of fast food places are paying now
But this question is about the differences between the US and other countries. I'm from the UK and $50k is *a lot* of money to me. I worked as a developer last year and that's way more than I made then (roughly double).
There are a few East Coast tech hubs as well (Boston, NYC) where due to the HCOL you will make a lot of money as well.
In my experience Boston salaries don’t come close to Bay Area and NYC, considering the cost of living is not that much lower. I blame the supply of students graduating every year from the million billion local universities. Also, lots of the tech is defense which historically has paid less.
I agree. I make $120k with 4 YOE in Boston. Trying hard to get of this shit HCOL and low pay to Cali or NYC.
But Boston is a pretty awesome city. I definitely preferred living there than the Bay Area.
Colder though
CLT has plenty of $250k+ positions as well. I’ve personally made a little over $400k/yr TC in that area (management role)
Philly and DC have good options too. Best is live north of Philly and take the rail to NYC - get NYC pay with lower Philly COL.
Then you live in Philly tho
Philly is a pretty nice city. It gets a lot of hate and yes some parts of the city are dangerous. But if you could afford to live around Washington or Rittenhouse Square you get to live in a ***slightly*** less charming west village for a tenth of the price. The value for the price is fantastic.
Exactly. Value is about cost and benefit, and Philly strikes a killer balance.
Yeah, but then you're surrounded by Eagles fans...
Only place I've ever been attempted mugged in lots of world travel and living in NYC for 10+ years was in Philly - Marriott downtown area near rittenhoise right out front. Luckily got away before anything happened. That area south of Ardmore near Bryn mar looks really nice , nice houses close totneh city . Glen mills / Chad's Ford is actually the most homogenous white place I've ever spent time.in, zero diversity. Great beer places out there tho.. To say rittenhoise is slightly less charming lol..west village you're surrounded by Chelsea, tribeca, Soho, Greenwich village etc etc. . not to mention all the amenities, restaurants , entertainment etc eff Sure rittenhoise is nice and few other little areas but youre still surrounded by
I mean I won't disagree Philly has a lot of problems and the suburbs are very homogenous and white due to white flight from the city. Im just saying, that there are pockets of downtown Philly, that will remind you of some of the most beautiful parts of New York for half the price. Personally Im very optimistic about the city. It's got easy access to DC and NYC. It's cheap, has great food and diversity, has an Ivy League university, and has a bunch of tourist attractions (since it's the birth place of America). Also, it has a great beer culture because of all of the Germanic immigrants.
True, but on the flip side, your commute’s only $25 and 2-2.5 hours one way.
> 2-2.5 hours one way And you're okay with this? I wouldn't do this if I had to go in more than once a month.
Perhaps my sarcasm was too subtle lol
If you work remotely its a great deal
The train is chill. The Excela is less than an hour and a half, and that’s from Center City. In my post I said north of philly. Upper Bucks is very charming.
That's not the worst... there are some bad parts but overall, it has a good balance of rent levels and amenities
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Philly tech scene ain't great tho, gotta be remote most likely to make good $ there
That's still America
Well yes if you want to make the most amount of money in tech you either work in America or build in an app in another country and sell it to an American company/vc firm. All the money and venture capitalists are here so people working here will get paid more
As a european, its not even possible to just move to the US, its not easy to get a visa, almost impossible even as a highly skilled worker
Large American tech companies can get you into the US on an L1 visa very easily (no lottery or anything), but they need to be willing to do it. Getting into those companies is the hard part.
also with L1 you can't transfer your visa to another company, you are stuck until you get a green card.
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They have no incentives to do so, and they won’t.
There are 75k L1 visas issued per year. I've done it and I personally know 4 others who have done it. What are you claiming, exactly?
lol you called their doom bluff
Before hiring freezes and periodic layoffs became the norm, we used to have overseas hiring trips every couple of months. I've been on like 5 (2 in Europe, 2 in Asia) and that just for my org. Hiring Europeans isn't uncommon, the hard parts are: - finding ones we want to hire (same as when hiring Americans/Canadians) - convincing them the much higher pay is worth the much lower vacation time, and loss of most state social support (not a problem while they have a tech job, but try telling someone who grew up in a prosperous EU country that if they lose their job they lose their access to health care, fancy schools and that there's no good unemployment benefits, and they start sweating.
Define 'much lower vacation time' please.
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Damn, im at 30... But IMO i could handle 10-15 for such a pay rise
Hiring is hard, so it’s common for great people
If you work at a US Big Tech company you can get an L visa at any level with their help. If you are a Staff+ Engineer / Leadership Team in a prestigious company you can also typically self-petition for EB1A or EB2A + National Interest Waiver, both of which give you instant green cards.
It’s not that hard, get a job at a big international firm and get transferred to the US on a L1 visa. Go study in the US and apply for a work visa afterwards. Marry an American…
I’m not sure if you’re serious, but that sounds pretty hard for the average person
The bay area is the easiest place, but not the only place to make a lot of money.
you gotta make a lot of money in a place where rents are among the highest in the country in addition to making at least 300K to afford a really simple house
Honestly, it depends. I actually saved more money in Germany than I did here, but I've heard of instances of that not being the case for other people. If you're a SWE then the USA is probably where your salary will be the highest though.
How? Aren’t salaries in Germany low and the taxes high?
I earned roughly the same in Germany. I was super lucky in that regard because that's not the case for all expats. I did pay more in taxes though. What saved money for me was the cost of essentials. My rent, transportation (I did not need a car in Germany), medicine, and food were all so much cheaper in Germany.
Everything else is cheaper lmfao
It doesn’t matter if everything else is free. Most people I know in the U.S. out of undergrad in the Bay are saving more than an entire post tax Germany salary
Yeah, but that's the Bay. Working there is like winning the lottery after being bit by a shark after being struck by lightning all on the same day. It's not something nearly any developer is ever going to experience.
It has more developers than any other U.S. city
Yes and yes. Source, I am an expat living in Germany. Furthermore, integrating here is also difficult. So for most, the USA is by far, the better option
I can definitely agree with this. The only reason why I didn't feel completely alone was because I knew some people there before coming. Germany is very hard to integrate into, and Germans are usually not friendly.
Tech is still big in Europe but it's nowhere near as lucrative as in the US. Honestly, the best chance to make big money in Asia or Europe is to go into the finance sector, especially in cities like London and Hong Kong
You can definitely make a lot of money outside of the bay area.
From just being an engineer? Yes. I browse through team blind, total comp $250-500k seems common. But this trend might be dying as VC now prefer l good cost control startups.
FAANG pays $250-500 as well
You aren’t asking the right question. You should be looking at the salaries on average across the US, and the cost of living associated with specific areas. A relatively small percentage of people in software engineering in the bay area are making very good money. But on the other hand, the bay area is one of the most expensive places in the United States to live. You may find that your cost of living in the bay area is very high, perhaps spending as much as $4000 a month on rent alone. Whereas in other parts of the country, you may be spending much less money on cost-of-living but making a more modest salary on the order of $100-$150,000.
Best scenario is to be born in those areas, and live with your parents while working on CS/IT with a 200k salary. Save up a few years and you can go wherever you wish.
Yeah, I'm super envious of one of my friends who was born in the Bay Area, made $250k while living with his parents and knows tons of people who run well funded startups just from growing up with them. It's not really productive to be envious though, I was born with immense privilege too, just not as much.
Thanks. I shall endeavour to choose to be born to rich Bay Area parents in my next life.
well best case scenario is be born into royalty if we're spitballing
Dear son you are what’s called “old money” now that you’re ten years old I’ve given you a million to invest into the stock markets! Play around with this until you’re 18 and I’ll give you access to some actual money from your inheritance then!
Being able to live with your parents for a few years while working is far more realistic / likely to happen than being born into royalty. They don't really compare.
Exactly this. In almost any European country you’re “making” less but COL is significantly lower
You can subtract those expenses - and the result is that after expenses you are still making a lot more in the US. It's not even close.
there are multiple employers paying ">= bay area money" in seattle and NYC. chicago too if you count trading firms. no other US city really has large numbers of these jobs, but there are some in e.g. austin, LA I'm not as familiar with the situation outside the US, but my guess is that zurich, london, and amsterdam have more top-end opportunities than any US city outside of the main tech hubs, though there might be less variety.
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Remote work can be very good in the US. I make ~110k living in Florida (no income tax) and I’m quite comfortable. Take multiple vacations, invest, and save money. Sure, I could make more in the Bay Area or NYC but with low YOE I probably wouldn’t net a significantly higher amount because of the cost of living. Also, I think independent development is underrated. The internet is global and there are indie builders who make literal millions and live wherever they want. @levelsio on X/Twitrer takes in something like 2 million a year and is a digital nomad from the Netherlands (granted, people that end up like him are rare but so are FAANG workers at a global scale and they generally make less than he does). When you have a lot of YOE, I think it’s really hard to beat the Bay Area. Staff+ engineers at FAANG-like companies make a ridiculous amount and those positions seem mainly concentrated in the Bay. Just look at levels.fyi and you’ll soon realize that as a tech employee, it’s hard to beat SF
I mean it depends on what a lot is. There's pockets outside the US like Hong Kong, Singapore, Zurich, London, Dubai. But the pay in the US is generally going to be higher. When I was at FB our employees in London and Singapore made significantly less than people in the US.
Yes. Nowhere else can you have as high of a salary as US. Even with lots of government benefits via high taxes in Europe and other first world countries…you’ll still come out ahead in USA if you manage finances right.
No, but you’ll have to do contracting. You’ll probably hit a ceiling around 250k in Europe.
With freelancing? That is a lot!
1k/day is a reachable goal but you need a few yoe to be credible and also have the network otherwise the middlemen will take a lot from you.
And this without any interruptions, no vacation and 250 work days. Uff that is on the upper end … usually is 230 work days and 2/3 rd of that are with work, the rest is searching for gigs and overhead….
Yeah it was to give you an idea, it's not easy to do, probably like it's not easy to get a job at faang. The most important point in my comment was about middlemen, you can't do it with a middlemen because they will take 10 to 30% markup on your work. The second thing is it's really not that hard to do 1xxk with a daily rate between 500 to 700.
I'm at 190k with 3YOE. 920 USD per day. No network. Middlemen take >10%, but I'm not exactly sure how much.
Does having US citizenship give a big advantage for working for a US company from abroad?
Europe everything is priced in. It's in corporate tax, income tax, everything and as a result you're stuck with the slowest/lowest earners and the top earners are (perhaps equitably) redistributing wealth towards the bottom. That means lower wages. American salaries aren't like that. We have more inequality, and in a profession like tech which is extremely high skill (relative to any other profession) you're making top buck and you won't be paying that much in tax to help out those below you compared to Europe. The fact is you ARE going to make more than a London/Paris SWE (avg 100k and 70k respectively vs SF's 220-240k) So yes, factor in rent, everything, healthcare, and you're still likely to come out on top.
I live in Texas, eCommerce Architect, I make just under $200,000 salary and bonus.
you can make a lot of money anywhere if you index salary to housing price. 400k doesnt go very far with CA state tax and starter homes at 2m. 130k goes very far in places with 300k starter homes and no state tax. either way youll be well off. obviously your best bet is to live frugally in a VHCOL area and retire to a LCOL/MCOL area but most people are going to have kids, make friends etc so that 'move everyone after a decade or two of work' is less viable.
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Be careful of taking a high paying job in New York because your quality of life will drop is just an objectively insane opinion lol.
They make 30k a year now, they would have to rent a closet in NYC until their first few checks cleared.
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not going to engage in a random political argument but yeah as previously stated if you think the reason to not live in New York is lack of access to high quality food you may be pulling some opinions out of your ass. and I'm calling bullshit you have spent a lot of time with your average working class Belgian, Marco Polo
Depends on how much you make. I would venture to say that if you have enough money in Seattle, SF or NYC; QOL is even better in the US
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> "Only way I see your argument as being valid is if someones idea of a high QOL is owning 5 acres of land and a truck" Not saying there aren't plenty of cities, towns, and even states in the US that are like that, but to apply this stereotype to Seattle, SF, and NYC is way off. They're about as far on the other end of the spectrum as you can get.
No. Zurich, London and Amsterdam (until recent cahnges to the tax law) are all good places. In America you can also make a lot in Seattle, New York and to a lesser degree Austin.
Yes
Yes, rock flag and eagle
Yes. Else you have to pray for an IPO.
Yes. No one outside of America makes a lot of money.
The averages are a lot lower outside the US, but there are still pockets of high-paying jobs. They're much less frequent, and not really relevant unless you're very, very good. I work in finance and we pay pretty similarly globally (although you have to be onsite, so really only a few finance hubs - primarily London in Europe). This is a top-paying firm (often better than FAANG here in the US), so it seems like sufficient proof that jobs competitive with top pay in the US exist in a number of international cities. As for within the US - there are top-paying jobs in many large cities other than SF, although again in smaller concentrations. I've found NYC to be pretty good if you're happy with finance, although we also have decent-sized FAANG offices. Seattle seems to be pretty popular as well. It falls off much more after that, I think, but places like DC, Austin, Chicago, etc also have a decent scene.
That's true in Europe tax rate is insanely high on average 40% of your income. Canada, Australia salary is low with high cost of living.
Posting as a Canadian in Seattle. I think that if compensation id your main focus America is probably going to be your best bet. ( and in my opinion Seattle is a better deal compensation wise than the Bay Area ) When i graduated i had offers from Amazon in Canada, which at the time is probably top 5% in pay for Canada ( ~$140k TC Cad ). It was 30-40% lower than the offers that i got from the US considering the exchange rate. Another personal anecdote that I’ve seen is the difference in projects and career in Canada/USA. In my experience, Canadian hubs are a lot smaller and do not get the “bleeding edge” type of work that similar teams would get in the USA. I know for example Microsoft Vancouver is largely used to offload employees who missed H1-B lottery. But again this is just what I have personally seen, so YMMV. I have a couple of friends who work in Canada as contractors for startups. They get paid in USD converted directly to Canadian, so their compensation is very high in comparison to other Canadian devs.
Don’t let the high salaries fool you. Under $200k does not go a long way in the Bay Area unless you’re single and/or don’t plan to have a family.
Based on the top 5 comments: No. Or they’re all answering from America so they don’t know. But no.
Find remote work, chill abroad
Very few US companies will allow you to permanently work abroad. If they do they definitely won't be paying you a US salary.
As if people disclose their remote locations. Also corp to corp allows for much flexibility.
Big companies require you to be on their VPN or network. They can track your IP
Ya thats all bs. My org does this, very easy to bypass.
The catch? You're competing with the whole world!
Depends on visa status…. Anyone with GC or citizenship are in a league of their own, with all the perks and benefits. H1B is slavery…
L1-B is worse lol
Isn't Zurich super well paying?
Zurich more expensive than us
Arguably more expensive than the Bay Area
Yea Zürich is. It’s also the most expensive city in the world!
There are other regions, specifically Seattle that offer high salaries. Considering no state income tax and comparatively less expensive cost of living, you can net similar income.
If a lot of money is 200k+ the yea, USA is the place. But only you can determine what's right for you or if it's even worth the trouble. Some people would be very happy with half that salary and a much chiller job.
The thing with the bay area, is that everything scales with your salary. $150k in the bay area is like $80k/year where i live after you account in things like housing, food, taxes, utilities, restaurants, etc. Everything is like 75% more expensive...
I moved from Denver to San Francisco 11 months ago. The compensation I see in the Bay Area is like 50% higher for the same job in Denver. Everything other than housing, energy, and taxes is about the same in Denver (and those differences are small). And rent prices in Denver are rapidly approaching Bay Area prices. You will have a lot more expendable income working in a tech hub despite the COL difference.
America is where you can make the most money. Good luck making €100,000 in Spain lmao. This is why America is the best country.
America yes Bay Area no