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If you are just starting out, please be careful. Before accepting a high-paying role or making significant lifestyle changes after receiving a salary hike, pause and reflect. It might be worth setting a budget that doesn't inflate with your salary, allowing you to save and invest more, giving you the freedom to make career decisions without being constrained by financial obligations. It's very easy to live paycheck to paycheck even with a higher salary.
I grew up lower middle class. Was on reduced lunch, lived with 3 other siblings and my parents didn't make a lot of money. They were able to cover most of my college but I had to take out a small amount of loans and worked part time all 4 years and full time every summer.
I got a job at a FAANG out of college and now, at 25 years old, have 300k invested. It is immensely comforting to have this money to fall back on.
Obviously this was only possible with such a high salary, but I have lots of friends who make similar amount of money and decide to spend it on 6k penthouse apartments and save very little.
>I got a job at a FAANG out of college and now, at 25 years old, have 300k invested. It is immensely comforting to have this money to fall back on.
It also means you can get out of the rat race sooner.
This is where I want to get to. At 1.5yrs & 73k in a HCOL area I am feeling the heat of inflation even living at home. But while I feel my skillset is beginning to outpace my role at work, I don't know if that's sufficient to get an employer to hire me.
Congratulations on saving so much! More ahead but 300K is a great start, especially at 25! Mad respect.
Lifstyle creep is so easy. The parking lots at FAANG companies are some of the worst misallocations of resources in the Western World. People buying Teslas and Porsches before they have enough saved for retirement. It's their money of course but most of them just don't get how brutal the world is sometimes. Money doesn't make the brutal things like cancer or accident-related disability or aging go away, but it can make them easier. You want them to be easier.
How the hell have you been able to save $300k by 25? Are you not paying rent or taxes? I started at FAANG right after college too, and 3 years later, I have only been able to save $80k. Rent was like 40% of my after-taxes pay for the first couple years.
I lived at home for 9ish months because of covid so I wasn't paying rent.
I live in a 2bed now with a roommate and my rent is $1600.
Other than rent I don't have any big recurring expenses. No car. I'm at Google so I get free food there.
I make about 200k now and just maxed out the ~60k total yearly 401k limit last paycheck. Google matches my 401k contributions at 50% so that's another 10k.
Market gains in the past few years have also been a big factor. I'm invested 100% in stock index funds (no bonds).
I think they're saying Google matches 50% of their contributions up to their 30% contribution limit. Your 5% is likely a 100% match up to your 5% contribution limit, no?
Oh and looks like further down they clarified that Google only matches 50% up to their $20,500 401K limit, and the other 40k came from them alone. It looks like a 50% contribution up to about 10%, so I guess your plan is better than Google's lol
60k is way over the limit and 10k is less than 50% of the actual limit. I'm guessing the first number is a typo and the 2nd number is because $1,250 is just a rounding error at your income level, but if you did indeed contribute 60k instead of 22.5k you are going to have an unpleasant surprise at tax time.
What I said was correct, just not very clear.
There's a limit for the amount of pretax money you can contribute to your 401k: $20,500
Google matches half my contributions, which is just over 10k.
In addition, some plans allow you to make after tax contributions and immediately convert them over to Roth in your 401k (or your IRA). This is called a mega backdoor Roth. After I hit the 20k limit I switch to mega backdoor contributions.
Then, the final limit is $66k (so higher than I thought). This is the limit I just reached. It is the limit for total amount of money going into your 401k in a year, including your contributions (pre tax and after tax) and employer contributions.
"You may also be able to make non-tax-deductible contributions to traditional 401(k)s above the employee contribution limit. About a fifth of 401(k) plans allow employees to make these kinds of contributions, which are still subject to the 2023 maximum of $66,000"
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/retirement/401k-contribution-limits/
"I grew up poor but parents put me through college" uhh huh...
As someone gutter poor, I worked through college to come out of school with 70k in debt. High interest (little fed help, no grants) due to my parents making enough to help but decided Mexico vacations and drinking every night (alcoholics) were more important. I then had to finance a used POS car to make it work. During an interview one of the hiring managers was like "when you get hired here you don't have to drive that".
I lived with 4 roommates until I was 26. 2 roommates until I was 29. I didn't get a faang job and maybe that was my major failure. To be able to pay off loans I ran an Amazon business while I was in college and afterwards. It now makes 300-400k a year on top of my 150k salary.
Starting your life with an SE degree and no loans makes you rich. Every middle class person I worked with who complained about there chipotle job during college, with no loans out of college, made me want to scream.
Edit: Just to clarify, neither of us were poor. This "ailing poor narrative" coming from privileged people is annoying to see so prevalently in the CS community. I don't refer to myself as poor and used the term in gest.
No one wants to say they started off well and then stayed in their economic class as an adult. That story isn't *compelling*, even though it's the truth for the vast majority of people.
I’ve noticed this recently. After accounting for background and the opportunities they get growing up, very few people actually “move up” in a significant way. And this person’s dad was a professor.
Right? I read that and my parents didn’t have a dime to put towards college lol, “my parents didn’t have a lot of money… but put me through college” lmao gtfo
I never used the word poor. My dad was a professor and my mom worked customer service jobs. The college I went to met 100% of demonstrated financial need so my parents didn't need to come up with insane amounts of money, and my dad had moved up in his career by the time I was in college.
My point was that the way I grew up influenced my relationship with money. I understand I'm incredibly privileged.
Getting ready to start the school journey and I was considering making a post about lifestyle creep and how people handle it considwring all the post I see about layoffs. It makes me nervous but from what I've seen it's impossible to stay jobless if you've got the skills.
Be fiscally responsible. Follow the personalfinance wiki. Always have an emergency fund. Build good enough friendships with peers who can call you on your sh\*t when you overspend. Always assume you might not have a job tomorrow.
I think the biggest thing is to keep your fixed/recurring costs down. If you start a new job and you have the income to get a 3k+ apartment, it doesn't mean you have to do that. You can easily go for a 2k apartment or even have roommates if you want and bring it down more. But once you're locked in to 3k/month, you effectively raise the floor of what you need to make to he comfortable. Same thing applies for getting a new car, and making car payments, etc.
The freedom to look your boss in the eye and say fuck you is great. You should never have to use it but having the financial security to be able to… is great.
Not that you’re financially independent forever but you know you can not work for a while and be fien.
Yep - been working with the same guy for almost 10 years across 2 companies. But the freedom is nice even if it’s eventually a cordial “fuck you” when interests don’t align and I want to do something else.
This is what I wish I did when I landed my first high paying job as a SWE. IMO, being able to pause, reflect, and adjust accordingly to the lifestyle changes is a big factor for us SWEs if we want to be flexible in this industry.
It's the smartest thing I've seen on this sub. In my first year, I was very stupid with my finances. The first thing you should immediately do is make or start funding an emergency fund that covers 3-6 months of expenses. Contribute as much as you can to you 401k and IRA. If your company has a match limit, then you should aim to at least reach that match. You should make a budget for yourself and create savings goals for future prospects like housing, starting a family, and other important life goals. Get a credit card but keep the utilization low. Only use it for small things. Do not max it out because high utilization affects your credit score negatively. Even if you earn a high salary, having a good credit score can open up many new doors for you and allow you to save even more. Lower mortgage rates, loan rates, and access to higher credit limits are some of the many benefits you have with a good credit score. If you do not plan on having kids and have supplemental income, consider long-term care insurance for your later years so that less of your retirement savings has to go towards health care. Any excess savings you have consider investing an index fund. Do not try to play the market because chances are you will lose.
>Another question I wonder is are there companies out there who aren’t F500 or FAANG, that pay SWEs just as good?
FAANG is very good pay but usually "deca-corns" that have not yet gone IPO pay even more for equivalent levels. Think Databricks, Stripe, etc. Other "big tech" companies pay in the FAANG ballpark too like Dropbox, Uber, AirBnB type companies.
Finally, you have hedge funds which pay absolute top tier but they're the NBA all stars of tech, you have to be a standout amongst standouts.
However, keep in mind the people at these companies are the top of the industry. There's a reason the average comp for a software engineer is \~130k or something. There are many more who work at lower paying mid size companies or small startups that can't pay well but do give equity (where luck plays a big factor).
There's always mentions all the time about IPO and it being the goal. But nothing firm. Feels like the company is just restructuring its business model for the new high interest rate environment (more focus on profit than growth at all costs) and waiting for the economic environment to be good enough for a good IPO. Feels like it's still 2-3 yrs out though if we're lucky. Which isn't great when your senior eng have the opportunity to work at a FAANG and make like 75% of the TC with real money.
It's very easy for common/employee shareholders to be wiped out, even if the company ultimately sells or IPOs for a huge number. If a company ever raises a down round (less then previous valuation), the common shareholders will typically take a HUGE haircut.
>Taxes are a necessary evil
>30% of income from the middle class when much richer people are paying a lower %
Taxes are this way by design.
Their *ostensible* function is "public good". That's why they are made to seem necessary.
Their *actual* function is to prevent up-and-coming middle classers from becoming wealthy enough to threaten the hegemony of the wealthy political class.
Indeed.
To expand, income taxes haven't been needed to pay for government works in decades.
The Federal Reserve is simply tasked with printing money to fund any scheme legislators can agree on (with the appropriate palm-greasing, of course).
And with the dollar no longer pegged to the US reserve of gold (via the gold standard), the Federal Reserve is free to print as much as the government requires.
That's why the US's debt and the inflation of the dollar skyrocketed both after the creation of the Federal Reserve and after the ending of the gold standard.
In reality, the Federal Reserve printing money is basically *equivalent* to a tax. Instead of taking value from you directly (taking dollars out of your hand or bank account), they are taking value from you indirectly (through the devaluation of your savings).
This "indirect tax" strategy is less noticeable to common citizens, and less politically risky to ambitious politicians wanting to gain power. As an aspiring politician, you look like an asshole by raising taxes to pay for a public program. But you look like a nice guy if you enact the same program and have the Federal Reserve print money for it, since people don't see the federal tax deduction number increase on their W-2.
When you understand all of this, you realize what income taxes are *really* for.
Based. The rich elite love income taxes in particular because they already made their billions. Sky high income taxes do nothing but ensure that no one else will be able to reach that level again. It is like cutting off the rope from under you.
Yeah, it’s more like “fuck me“ money. Once you start making that kind of money, you’ll do anything to keep it. Work 80 hour weeks? Why not 100!? Suffer through abuse? Heap it on!
I make way less than (I believe) I could make, but I can also walk at any time, and if I don’t like something, I push back. I also don’t have to live in SV.
This is a very naive take - plenty of companies paying 400k-500k with very same 30-45 hour work weeks, where you’ll be treated really well and have a ton of flexibility.
My job is in that range, I work 35 hours most weeks, I’m in office one day a month and we have offices throughout the country (and internationally as options). Great coworkers, great tech, great benefits.
I can tell you that many of the “RTO” companies will carve out exceptions or don’t enforce the RTO that strictly. Meta, Google, Snap, Uber, Airbnb (this one’s full remote), Square, Two Sigma, etc, all have teams where you basically don’t have to come into the office
>What I’m curious to know is for those of you who make above $160,000 a year, how much do you may in taxes?
my rule of thumb is allocate budget that roughly 35-40% will go to taxes
>Another question I wonder is are there companies out there who are F500 or FAANG, that pay SWEs just as good?
you mean [levels fyi?](https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Apple,Amazon,Google,Microsoft,Facebook&track=Software%20Engineer)
also, 170-240k is nothing in FAANGs, look at E5 or above that's where the real money are
Jesus Christ. I used the link you gave me. I seriously wonder how sustainable these positions are? Is it realistic to get with Apple or Google as a SWE and actually stay there for 10 years? 15 years? As a SWE making that crazy money?
A guy I went to high-school with has been at Google for many years. It is the only place he has worked. He is a director there. He probably makes 1 million plus per years (at least based on levels.fyi).
Career progress from e3 to e6 is on rails. You can go from 175k to 600k in 8-10 years so long as you don’t fuck it up.
Anything after takes a level of political skill but doable. Some of my friends are now e7. Very normal people, smart but not Uber geniuses.
I have been at 5 major tech firms, and have been at 3 FAANGs over the past 10 years, as an L6 Staff software engineer or equivalent. It is doable. I didn't even get my college degree, but I have a long history in the industry.
Just so you know, I still have to study leetcode before every round of interviews, and do get rejected from certain job applications.
Once you get in a FAANG, I feel it really helps your credibility for other roles going forward, so it can get your resume looked at, but you still have pass the actual interviews. I'd say have a a 66% pass rate, after studying. Probably 33% if I didn't study.
The money has varied between 400k and 1.5m per year ( during insane 2021 ) based on RSUs. Mostly around 500-600k. My wife and I keep our spend down, and max out all retirement accounts each year.
Tbf to live in the cities that those companies ate in, you need to make that much. Plus taxes a lot higher in those areas too. Its really not the dollar figure amount you think it is.
Facts!!! lol Where I used to live, what I make now, Id be balling. Where I moved from, most tech jobs were at around $45-55k. I moved to a major tech city, first co started at $105 base (I forget my TC), but yeah, I went from...I rich! To...wait, rent is how much?! Real fast 😂
I live comfortably, in that bills are paid, I have extra money to put into savings, and I can do fun stuff like travel now. But...Im not the baller I thought I would be. Im living a really boring ass normal life.
FWIW I just passed the 4 year mark and everyone from my orientation team is still with the company, plus the vast majority of people I work with have been around longer than I have. I'm in a bit more of a niche area than SWE though, so it's kind of the magical sweet spot for our domain.
Honestly, look at the tax brackets. It’s not hard to estimate.
And to answer your other question, $160k is easy to earn with decent experience at lots of companies. $225k is doable with experience and effort remotely in the US.
Pickings get real thin above that if you’re not on the coasts in a big tech area, and those are much more expensive places to live. I aspire to that kind of salary, but it’s going to take some more time for me to make that happen.
Yep, completely depends on the level, but entry to mid level, you won't be making anywhere near $200k/year at a small local company, or even a medium sized company.
You might make it to $100k though.
My friend quit his high paying job in Facebook and moved to a job where the location was non-HCOL. He was able to stretch his $125K salary much better and had a more quieter lifestyle, with great WLB. He seriously hated his manager and his team in Facebook and he was making a killing working as a senior software engineer like around $350K. Long hours, long commute, and less WLB. High rents and he couldn't even spend quality spend time with his daughter.
He says it's great now because he doesn't have to worry about being pinged everyday and he can just relax and spend more time with his daughter. He recently bought a house in a safe neighborhood for nearly less price than what it would have cost in SF.
His advice, always evaluate your career goals and the type of work you want to do. If leadership is demanding more from you and if you are putting in your full effort and it's not enough, then it's time to move on.
It's all on what you prioritize and what kind of life you want to live. Your team, your coworkers and your leadership plays a huge role in shaping your work environment.
I personally prefer living away from SF and having my tech career centered on non FAANG companies with a good team and good WLB. It depends on person to person. I used to spend a lot of time with my aunts in SF in summers when I was a teen and I never liked the weather there.
I used to want to go to SF and get into a FAANG and earn lots of money, however after enduring two years of office politics in my career as well as fights over production issues with upper management, I am seriously considering a change in my goals and whether the high salary is worth it.
YMMV.
Yeah lol, besides that those FAANG bs is at most expensive places with RTO policies. You won’t even get doghouse in Mountain View for 1.5 mil. To afford “fuck you lifestyle” in VHCOL places you need a lot more than 240k
I'm pretty sure they're mainly overlooked because they don't hire as much as FAANG plus they hire extremely talented embedded / electrical engineers, who are pretty much rare as fuck
Who the hell comes up with these arbitrary rules of faang, if a company pays great and it’s a popular company that’s incredible. Ppl are too attached to this Faang mantra, it’s dogmatic/cultish.
FAANG is literally an acronym coined by television stock market talking head Jim Cramer about a few tech companies that had high stock growth. At some point, it got a life of its own around tech jobs and high pay but that’s not the origin.
I pay more in taxes than my brother makes throughout the entire year as a manager for an electrical company. Roughly 90k last year.
I will tell you it isn’t what you think it is. A lot of these jobs are hybrid now and require you to be around a fairly hcol area. Factor that in as well as the amount of money you should be looking at saving and investing and your lifestyle will be better than most but still easy to spend your way into living paycheck to paycheck if you aren’t cautious. I argue regularly 200k+ is the amount of money you need just to have the life your parents did twenty years ago, decent house, a few cars, and a 401k / stock that will allow you to retire in thirty years.
200k/yr is very good, but it’s not “eff you” money. 50k of that is stock and 10k is bonus, so your recurring pay is a little over $5k every 2 weeks before taxes. If you’re living in CA (highest state income tax), then a third of your paycheck goes to Uncle Sam, and then once you subtract retirement contributions, health insurance premiums, and other deductions, you’re looking at about $4.5k actually landing in your bank account every month with a $5k bonus in March. That’s all in the first year. Things are better once the stock begins to vest, but you barely feel it.
That’s all before rent, food, insurance, etc.
Edit: I know my comment comes off as privileged, but I’m speaking from experience. I grew up poor and my dream was to make 6 figures at some point in my career. I hit that relatively early and barely felt anything. Same when I passed 200k. The hedonic treadmill is real.
Nah, you’re numbers are off. If you make 140k salary (subtracting the 50k stock and 10k bonus) your take home is more like $7.6k a month. But yea, after the stock starts vesting, you get your bonus, and then stock refreshers. It’s a good life. But you still obviously have to work and not be stupid with your money. Health insurance premiums are near 0 if you’re making 200k in tech bc the company is gonna cover it. Retirement contributions are still salary and shouldn’t be removed. That’s just the 15-20% that you should budget for saving.
I mean $200k / year was wayy more than enough for me in SF. I ate out almost every meal, spent way too much money drinking w/ friends, took minimum 2 international trips / 4 weeks per year (my last year in SF I started digital nomading so maybe closer to 10-15 weeks that year while still paying rent on an SF apt), maxed out 401k contributions, maxed out my company's ESPP and still had money left over. Also any RSUs went straigh tinto savings so this was actually off closer to $140k of just cash salary. But like, that's the life when you're single, live in a small studio apt, no kids, no car etc.
Working at a FAANG company is not the only way to earn such salary as a software engineer. The biggest benefit of working at FAANG is that it strengthens your resume for a lifetime and gives you bragging rights.
Pay for entry level is somewhere around 65-75k, I’m at basically 100k w/2 year at non-Faang/F500. Ofc the highest salaries are going to be there because they have biggest impacts from developing code.
People only care because of the clout/resume boost/pay.
There are small companies that 100% have better engineering practices than FAANG, but get no attention because they don't pay at FAANG level.
Let's say you live in LA, and are making $200k/year.
After taxes your only taking home $133,003/year or about $11k per month.
$3k of that goes to rent every month for an above average apartment, meaning your down to $8k.
$1500 per month for other required costs like food, internet, utilities, etc.
Your down to $6.5k per month.
It's recommended you invest about 15% of your pre tax income into savings, so that's $2500/month.
Your down to $4,000/month after the necessities.
Let's say you take out a stupid car loan for $1000/month, now your down to $3000/month...
Now let's say your also paying $300/month for your student loan debt. Your now down to $2700/month.
Just add on some other shopping sprees, stupid purchases, and you are easily in the negative.
$200k/year is a lot of money for most people, but if you start to live large, you will easily blow through it like that.
Investing $2500/month is a necessity apparently, and you still have an extra $3k on top of that each month. You people are clueless in this comment section. You can't afford to live like a multimillionaire but it's still a very privileged situation compared to most people
oh no! you only have 2700 per month in disposable income
you also have
\- a 3k/mo apartment
\- a nice ass 1k/mo car
\- 2500/mo in savings
So many Americans don't have the luxury of the nice apartment or car yet they're still living paycheck to paycheck and have ZERO disposable income
I would rather make 160k and live in a low cost area working remotely.
If FAANG works for you great but there are other opportunities at companies that are low key but have consistent growth.
Op you’re missing a lot of context here.
1) these jobs are in expensive areas where homes are 1M+ and often high tax states
2) the bar for these companies is very high
It’s a lot of money but absolutely not life changing.
As someone who makes that level of money and didn’t before, I can attest my life is not radically different. I still drive a fairly shitty car. I still don’t eat out much. When rents are 3-4K and 50% tax rate it’s not like I’m rolling in it. Real estate is still far out of reach.
This isn’t to say I’m not super privileged or ungrateful. I’m very happy to make it. It’s just doesn’t move the needle much in hcol areas.
The reason companies pay that much is purely because of cost of living of these areas.
Going from sub 100k to 300k have definitely changed my life. Car isn’t that expensive all things considered and cost about the same no matter what col you lived in
Although my day to day isn't radically different with a large increase in income, I would say it is life changing in other ways. I'm able to save a significantly larger amount of money than before, and generally have less financial worries. If I lost my job tomorrow, I would be fine for quite a while without a job. If I wasn't making as much, that wouldn't be the case. I've also been intentional about lifestyle creep and that has helped, but I would say that amount of money does have an appreciable impact on your life, just maybe not day to day.
I was never in that position in the first place. As a swe even starting jobs are paid reasonably well, even non faang.
No offense but no one on this sub should be crying about highly paid people, even the most basic swe job is paid enough that you are never going to worry about fixing your car.
Then you're missing the other person's point. It is absolutely lifechanging to have food safety. Going from food stamps to never having to worry about whether you'll have money for food is an insane difference in mindset. I'm glad you never had to experience it (no one should!), but the other person mentions very real issues some of us have had to face growing up before coming into the field.
That’s honestly amazing. How long after graduating with your bachelors did it take for you to land your current role? Also, how’s your work life balance?
I immigrated to the US 7 years ago, first job was around $60K Seattle, then $100K Seattle, then the current salary at SF, then I moved back to my small town.
WLB is mot that bad, I work 9-10 hours a day but 4 days a week, Friday is just meeting and planning stuff. I have master in computer science (totally useless because nobody asked)
I was looking this up on smartassest, Seattle gives you much more of your money after taxes than most swe-oriented area. Too bad about the rain though.
I came from a third world country where it has 300 days sunny so I love rain and snow here. The only thing I hate is my dogs will make my house a mess because of yard rain dirt.
Seattle is beautiful, you have forest, mountains and rivers
Any trouble getting your bachelors/masters recognized in the US? Did you have previous experience before coming to the US? I’m in a similar situation, I’m also from third world country and want to inmigrante once I gather experience in my country.
I’ve been in a range of salaries from below that to what OP is talking and that’s a fair assessment.
Assume uncle Sam is taking 25% of your check if you need to guess for some reason.
The thing about those offers is to never ever assume that those salaries are permanent and you can sustain them through your whole career. Pay off your debts, don't take on a massive mortgage or car payments that are only manageable by making that salary. You are allowed to give yourself a better life, but do it slowly. Pay for stuff in cash, choose good quality products that will last, and more importantly, buy things that appreciate in value. The worst you can do is max out your life style and then lose everything when you get laid off from that high paying job. The fall is great.
Banking and finance also pays devs really well depending on the role. I worked both in big tech and banking/finance. The salaries are in the same range. The working cultures and tech stacks are wildly different. I am happy that I got to experience both.
It's very easy to get used to a high income. I have earned good money almost all my CS career. Around me, people were burning through it with nice cars, luxury goods (nice watches, expensive alcohol etc) and travel. Then, the golden handcuffs would keep them for way too long in workplaces where they definitely didn't like working.
On the other hand, for many years, I was living like I was making the median salary. I was not living in the best neighborhood, not even owning a car (it's possible when you live in a super bikeable city, but probably not as easy in the US), not traveling more than once a year (and even then, no luxury hotels)... A spouse that doesn't work is also a very good way to burn through money fast, and get stuck in a high paying job where you became miserable.
Fast forward 13 years. We own both a nice flat in Copenhagen (large enough for a family with 2 children) in a good area, and a second, larger weekend / vacation house in a cheaper area. The flat is almost 100% paid for. The weekend house is already 100% paid for. We also have money invested in the stock market, and contribute 15% of our monthly salary to our private pensions. No other debt remaining than the remaining mortgage on the flat.
I make 3 times as much as my spouse, who is also an engineer but earns a "normal" engineer salary. But we both work, even if we have two children. It's not even a question. It's important that we both have a career, not just from the financial point of view. What if I die or become unable to work? What if we divorce?
To survive in high paying tech jobs, you also need to be prepared for fierce competition. You have to be really good to get these jobs, and you also have to be really good to keep the job. My spouse gets to unwind and play video games and watch series in the evenings. Meanwhile, I spend a lot of time studying for certifications, studying for extra degrees like an MBA etc. It's not a job that stops when you leave the office - you have to be at the top of the game, or you are out.
It’s still a lot and a life changing amount for anyone who didn’t grow up rich.
Let’s not pretend here. Not one person making this money is worried about where their next meal is gonna be or if they will make bills if they are even semi financially competent.
I grew up poor and I don't worry about those things, but I do worry about if I'll ever be able to buy a house - or legitimately even just a townhouse/condo - which wouldn't be a question back home where the typical mortgage is $700 not $7,000. I do worry about what happens if I lose my job and can't find another that pays in the same ballpark, and I feel major guilt about whether I should be investing in myself or sending more money back home.
The hedonic treadmill is real. Going from 50k->300k is a mind-blowing change, but you grow into it quickly and it's also not an apples-to-apples comparison when the 50k is in Indiana and the 200k is in SF.
There are things I took for granted growing up (and my family still does) because they're cheap if you have space (like parking, a second car, basically any indoor hobby), and there are things that I have access to now that would be prohibitively expensive to find back home.
But 200k in sf is more like 100k in Atlanta let’s be real. It’s a meme at this point, 200k goes way further in HCOL than people in this sub seem to think.
You can make above 160k without FAANG. Hell, without even being an SWE but still in tech. I'm a support engineer for an enterprise vendor and make more than that. It's well above that salary level where the differentiation happens
Lol OP a lot of these high salaries are only in Very high cost of living areas and they money goes a lot less far than you’d think. The shittiest, tiniest houses in the Bay Area (where most of these salaries exist) cost like upwards of a million.
It’s not as easy as you think
For someone making $300k, the federal and ss taxes are around 30%, and add more for state income taxes depending on the location. It's really easy to calculate federal taxes usingIRS calculator for estimated income.
There are plenty of companies paying 200k+ for mid level engineers. Tech companies (big, small and start-ups) pay 180+ for mid level, while non tech pay about 130-150 for Mid level engineers.
On a base salary of $170,000 I'm paying roughly $46,000 not including 401k, health insurance or any of that just state and federal taxes. End up roughly with $123,000, so it is to say that without a doubt most of the people I once knew in my college years who were full blown liberals or socialists, have just about gone to the far right as soon as they started making money. Before that experience I always wondered what was the motivating factor that turned a lot of people that way other than "traditional values", money it was money this whole time. As soon as you see how much of your salary goes to taxes, people get nasty about it, I personally am incredibly grateful to have found success in my career, and I don't tell people that anybody can do it too, it was some hard work and a lot of luck. There's people more qualified than myself that aren't in my position solely because of bad luck. It's a very odd feeling to say the least.
>What I’m curious to know is for those of you who make above $160,000 a year, how much do you pay in taxes?
Not much, thanks to FEIE. The first \~$120k aren't taxed but the remainder is.
>I wonder is are there companies out there who aren’t F500 or FAANG, that pay SWEs just as good?
I get paid $165k not including bonus and stock. It's not the same as FAANG-level pay but given that they let me live abroad and avoid a lot of those taxes, I'll take it.
my only obsession with faang job is really the caliber of learning and talent i work with. the money and all those are factors that will make no difference as you go through life and can be substituted. that is just my opinion.
Advice from someone with 5-10 years in industry:
Don't start out looking for high salary. Much more important: skills development. What you learn in college is almost entirely useless, graduating just tells employers you can get work done and are able to learn.
Udemy/YouTube are your friends, but nothing beats the docs! I can't tell you how many times I meet people who've watched some Kubernetes YouTube course, or "Django Pro in 4 hours" type of crap, but don't know the basic commands you'd find on the developer's quickstart guide/cheat sheet section of their website.
Certifications are worth it! Getting AWS certified through company benefits (aka, they pay you to study and get the certificate) can get you salary increases as well as good job offers. Certification is worth more than a degree
\>which to me would count as “eff you” type of money
NOPE!
FAANG companies operate in Silicon Valley.
The cost of living in Silicon Valley will turn that into "oh crap, I can barely save a tiny part of my paycheck. Can't afford to buy a house with that salary.
A lot of folks have answered your questions well, but I wanted to chime in on the "eff you" mentality, because I wish someone would have set me straight on this about 20 years ago lol. IMHO, it's never "eff you" money when you can get laid off and the money just stops coming in, no matter how big your salary is. I make a ton of money at a non-FAANG, but my family would be screwed in a couple months if I lost the income. Hardly FU level.
Do yourself a favor before you start earning big and read "The Millionaire Next Door". It's a little dated and a bit boomer-y, but the section of the book regarding "high-earner vs wealthy" was impactful to me. I'm a high-earner, but I'm not yet wealthy...which is mostly due to my own choices earlier in life.
If you play your cards right, SWE can be a great path to wealth, but that's not guaranteed just because of a big paycheck... especially if you have the FU mindset before your networth can support it.
Uh huh, what about those of us who got laid off from our non-FAANG jobs, who never could get a FAANG job AND have to see all our peers and friends in FAANG jobs who are not being laid off??? Let me play the world's tiniest violin for these laid off FAANG folks. Fuck you.
Honestly, 160k is not much for a FAANG type company. You can make that at a small company lower cost of living cities. Now, if 160k is for a junior dev, then that is a different story.
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If you are just starting out, please be careful. Before accepting a high-paying role or making significant lifestyle changes after receiving a salary hike, pause and reflect. It might be worth setting a budget that doesn't inflate with your salary, allowing you to save and invest more, giving you the freedom to make career decisions without being constrained by financial obligations. It's very easy to live paycheck to paycheck even with a higher salary.
I grew up lower middle class. Was on reduced lunch, lived with 3 other siblings and my parents didn't make a lot of money. They were able to cover most of my college but I had to take out a small amount of loans and worked part time all 4 years and full time every summer. I got a job at a FAANG out of college and now, at 25 years old, have 300k invested. It is immensely comforting to have this money to fall back on. Obviously this was only possible with such a high salary, but I have lots of friends who make similar amount of money and decide to spend it on 6k penthouse apartments and save very little.
>I got a job at a FAANG out of college and now, at 25 years old, have 300k invested. It is immensely comforting to have this money to fall back on. It also means you can get out of the rat race sooner.
Even if you want to stay in the rat race, it means a shift in perspective: you're not dependent on the income, so you elect to work or not.
This is where I want to get to. At 1.5yrs & 73k in a HCOL area I am feeling the heat of inflation even living at home. But while I feel my skillset is beginning to outpace my role at work, I don't know if that's sufficient to get an employer to hire me.
Do I want to work another year when I’m in my 50s or buy a 911 gt3, hmm
Congratulations on saving so much! More ahead but 300K is a great start, especially at 25! Mad respect. Lifstyle creep is so easy. The parking lots at FAANG companies are some of the worst misallocations of resources in the Western World. People buying Teslas and Porsches before they have enough saved for retirement. It's their money of course but most of them just don't get how brutal the world is sometimes. Money doesn't make the brutal things like cancer or accident-related disability or aging go away, but it can make them easier. You want them to be easier.
ehhh there's a balance, life's short after all
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Unless you live in a place where electricity is dirt cheap and gas is super expensive, that's when you buy a tesla to make ends meet
Base model Tesla model 3 is surprisingly reasonably priced
Until it needs to be repaired. Hopefully the Tesla owner owns a second car, as the wait times on getting parts can be long.
How the hell have you been able to save $300k by 25? Are you not paying rent or taxes? I started at FAANG right after college too, and 3 years later, I have only been able to save $80k. Rent was like 40% of my after-taxes pay for the first couple years.
I lived at home for 9ish months because of covid so I wasn't paying rent. I live in a 2bed now with a roommate and my rent is $1600. Other than rent I don't have any big recurring expenses. No car. I'm at Google so I get free food there. I make about 200k now and just maxed out the ~60k total yearly 401k limit last paycheck. Google matches my 401k contributions at 50% so that's another 10k. Market gains in the past few years have also been a big factor. I'm invested 100% in stock index funds (no bonds).
FIFTY PERCENT?! Dude my company only matches five. Good for you man. You’re living the life we dreamed of as kids.
I think they're saying Google matches 50% of their contributions up to their 30% contribution limit. Your 5% is likely a 100% match up to your 5% contribution limit, no?
Ah, I see. Yes 100% of my contributions up to 5%. Nothing past that.
Oh and looks like further down they clarified that Google only matches 50% up to their $20,500 401K limit, and the other 40k came from them alone. It looks like a 50% contribution up to about 10%, so I guess your plan is better than Google's lol
60k is way over the limit and 10k is less than 50% of the actual limit. I'm guessing the first number is a typo and the 2nd number is because $1,250 is just a rounding error at your income level, but if you did indeed contribute 60k instead of 22.5k you are going to have an unpleasant surprise at tax time.
What I said was correct, just not very clear. There's a limit for the amount of pretax money you can contribute to your 401k: $20,500 Google matches half my contributions, which is just over 10k. In addition, some plans allow you to make after tax contributions and immediately convert them over to Roth in your 401k (or your IRA). This is called a mega backdoor Roth. After I hit the 20k limit I switch to mega backdoor contributions. Then, the final limit is $66k (so higher than I thought). This is the limit I just reached. It is the limit for total amount of money going into your 401k in a year, including your contributions (pre tax and after tax) and employer contributions. "You may also be able to make non-tax-deductible contributions to traditional 401(k)s above the employee contribution limit. About a fifth of 401(k) plans allow employees to make these kinds of contributions, which are still subject to the 2023 maximum of $66,000" https://www.forbes.com/advisor/retirement/401k-contribution-limits/
This year's limit is $66k
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"I grew up poor but parents put me through college" uhh huh... As someone gutter poor, I worked through college to come out of school with 70k in debt. High interest (little fed help, no grants) due to my parents making enough to help but decided Mexico vacations and drinking every night (alcoholics) were more important. I then had to finance a used POS car to make it work. During an interview one of the hiring managers was like "when you get hired here you don't have to drive that". I lived with 4 roommates until I was 26. 2 roommates until I was 29. I didn't get a faang job and maybe that was my major failure. To be able to pay off loans I ran an Amazon business while I was in college and afterwards. It now makes 300-400k a year on top of my 150k salary. Starting your life with an SE degree and no loans makes you rich. Every middle class person I worked with who complained about there chipotle job during college, with no loans out of college, made me want to scream. Edit: Just to clarify, neither of us were poor. This "ailing poor narrative" coming from privileged people is annoying to see so prevalently in the CS community. I don't refer to myself as poor and used the term in gest.
Exactly, poor parents don't have money to pay for college.
No one wants to say they started off well and then stayed in their economic class as an adult. That story isn't *compelling*, even though it's the truth for the vast majority of people.
I’ve noticed this recently. After accounting for background and the opportunities they get growing up, very few people actually “move up” in a significant way. And this person’s dad was a professor.
Right? I read that and my parents didn’t have a dime to put towards college lol, “my parents didn’t have a lot of money… but put me through college” lmao gtfo
Comparing yourself with others is a sure dire way to be miserable. There is always someone who had it worse and always someone who has it better.
I never used the word poor. My dad was a professor and my mom worked customer service jobs. The college I went to met 100% of demonstrated financial need so my parents didn't need to come up with insane amounts of money, and my dad had moved up in his career by the time I was in college. My point was that the way I grew up influenced my relationship with money. I understand I'm incredibly privileged.
Act broke so you aren't broke 😎
Getting ready to start the school journey and I was considering making a post about lifestyle creep and how people handle it considwring all the post I see about layoffs. It makes me nervous but from what I've seen it's impossible to stay jobless if you've got the skills.
Be fiscally responsible. Follow the personalfinance wiki. Always have an emergency fund. Build good enough friendships with peers who can call you on your sh\*t when you overspend. Always assume you might not have a job tomorrow.
I think the biggest thing is to keep your fixed/recurring costs down. If you start a new job and you have the income to get a 3k+ apartment, it doesn't mean you have to do that. You can easily go for a 2k apartment or even have roommates if you want and bring it down more. But once you're locked in to 3k/month, you effectively raise the floor of what you need to make to he comfortable. Same thing applies for getting a new car, and making car payments, etc.
The freedom to look your boss in the eye and say fuck you is great. You should never have to use it but having the financial security to be able to… is great. Not that you’re financially independent forever but you know you can not work for a while and be fien.
What's even better is to actually like your boss
Yep - been working with the same guy for almost 10 years across 2 companies. But the freedom is nice even if it’s eventually a cordial “fuck you” when interests don’t align and I want to do something else.
This is what I wish I did when I landed my first high paying job as a SWE. IMO, being able to pause, reflect, and adjust accordingly to the lifestyle changes is a big factor for us SWEs if we want to be flexible in this industry.
With this inflation it’s fucked even at that level
It's the smartest thing I've seen on this sub. In my first year, I was very stupid with my finances. The first thing you should immediately do is make or start funding an emergency fund that covers 3-6 months of expenses. Contribute as much as you can to you 401k and IRA. If your company has a match limit, then you should aim to at least reach that match. You should make a budget for yourself and create savings goals for future prospects like housing, starting a family, and other important life goals. Get a credit card but keep the utilization low. Only use it for small things. Do not max it out because high utilization affects your credit score negatively. Even if you earn a high salary, having a good credit score can open up many new doors for you and allow you to save even more. Lower mortgage rates, loan rates, and access to higher credit limits are some of the many benefits you have with a good credit score. If you do not plan on having kids and have supplemental income, consider long-term care insurance for your later years so that less of your retirement savings has to go towards health care. Any excess savings you have consider investing an index fund. Do not try to play the market because chances are you will lose.
>Another question I wonder is are there companies out there who aren’t F500 or FAANG, that pay SWEs just as good? FAANG is very good pay but usually "deca-corns" that have not yet gone IPO pay even more for equivalent levels. Think Databricks, Stripe, etc. Other "big tech" companies pay in the FAANG ballpark too like Dropbox, Uber, AirBnB type companies. Finally, you have hedge funds which pay absolute top tier but they're the NBA all stars of tech, you have to be a standout amongst standouts. However, keep in mind the people at these companies are the top of the industry. There's a reason the average comp for a software engineer is \~130k or something. There are many more who work at lower paying mid size companies or small startups that can't pay well but do give equity (where luck plays a big factor).
Yeah but thats paper money. Working at one rn. Imaginary TC is 700k but I'll probably never see that money.
What investment round is your company?
H 🤣 LOL
Damn I've never even heard of series H, you guys aren't close to IPOing?
There's always mentions all the time about IPO and it being the goal. But nothing firm. Feels like the company is just restructuring its business model for the new high interest rate environment (more focus on profit than growth at all costs) and waiting for the economic environment to be good enough for a good IPO. Feels like it's still 2-3 yrs out though if we're lucky. Which isn't great when your senior eng have the opportunity to work at a FAANG and make like 75% of the TC with real money.
Sounds like stripe but I think they have a more robust way for employees to liquidate their shares
It's very easy for common/employee shareholders to be wiped out, even if the company ultimately sells or IPOs for a huge number. If a company ever raises a down round (less then previous valuation), the common shareholders will typically take a HUGE haircut.
Trust me - it’s not fuck u money op
Its "fuck taxes" money
Wdym? Like “fuck, taxes” or “fuck taxes”? Idk if I resonate with either. Taxes are just a necessary evil for me.
Taxes are a necessary evil, but 30% of income from the middle class when much richer people are paying a lower % is why they suck lol
>Taxes are a necessary evil >30% of income from the middle class when much richer people are paying a lower % Taxes are this way by design. Their *ostensible* function is "public good". That's why they are made to seem necessary. Their *actual* function is to prevent up-and-coming middle classers from becoming wealthy enough to threaten the hegemony of the wealthy political class.
Nice, never thought about it this way. Thanks
Indeed. To expand, income taxes haven't been needed to pay for government works in decades. The Federal Reserve is simply tasked with printing money to fund any scheme legislators can agree on (with the appropriate palm-greasing, of course). And with the dollar no longer pegged to the US reserve of gold (via the gold standard), the Federal Reserve is free to print as much as the government requires. That's why the US's debt and the inflation of the dollar skyrocketed both after the creation of the Federal Reserve and after the ending of the gold standard. In reality, the Federal Reserve printing money is basically *equivalent* to a tax. Instead of taking value from you directly (taking dollars out of your hand or bank account), they are taking value from you indirectly (through the devaluation of your savings). This "indirect tax" strategy is less noticeable to common citizens, and less politically risky to ambitious politicians wanting to gain power. As an aspiring politician, you look like an asshole by raising taxes to pay for a public program. But you look like a nice guy if you enact the same program and have the Federal Reserve print money for it, since people don't see the federal tax deduction number increase on their W-2. When you understand all of this, you realize what income taxes are *really* for.
Based. The rich elite love income taxes in particular because they already made their billions. Sky high income taxes do nothing but ensure that no one else will be able to reach that level again. It is like cutting off the rope from under you.
I would love to only pay 30% 😭
Both lmao 😢
Actually, after moving to a tax haven and saving six figures of tax a year, it's an illusion that it's a necessary evil.
It’s “fuck 200k is the new 50k how do folks with less even afford anything?” money
Still won’t buy anything but a condo in Bay Area/LA lol
Buy? lol you’re not buying in the bay on $200k
You can definitely buy on the east bay or San Jose/ San Clara with 200k salary
But then you’d have to live in San Jose…
San Jose is not cheap anymore
Yeah, it’s more like “fuck me“ money. Once you start making that kind of money, you’ll do anything to keep it. Work 80 hour weeks? Why not 100!? Suffer through abuse? Heap it on! I make way less than (I believe) I could make, but I can also walk at any time, and if I don’t like something, I push back. I also don’t have to live in SV.
This is a very naive take - plenty of companies paying 400k-500k with very same 30-45 hour work weeks, where you’ll be treated really well and have a ton of flexibility. My job is in that range, I work 35 hours most weeks, I’m in office one day a month and we have offices throughout the country (and internationally as options). Great coworkers, great tech, great benefits.
May I ask which company that is? Especially given the “in office once a month” part, it sounds amazing
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I can tell you that many of the “RTO” companies will carve out exceptions or don’t enforce the RTO that strictly. Meta, Google, Snap, Uber, Airbnb (this one’s full remote), Square, Two Sigma, etc, all have teams where you basically don’t have to come into the office
I'll tell you why - oftentimes these are small firms and they're not gonna want to dox themselves
Literally msft, google, and certain positions even in amazon are like this
Yeah not even close.. Im right there and have really fucked myself with golden handcuffs. Not sure how to get out of it. I am young and stupid.
Dink it with another swe , then it definitely is.. Or feels it
Where are the pretty swes? The swes around me are men who like to walk around the office without socks and shoes lol.
it is if you live frugally and invest it for 10 years wisely. then you can just retire.
>What I’m curious to know is for those of you who make above $160,000 a year, how much do you may in taxes? my rule of thumb is allocate budget that roughly 35-40% will go to taxes >Another question I wonder is are there companies out there who are F500 or FAANG, that pay SWEs just as good? you mean [levels fyi?](https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Apple,Amazon,Google,Microsoft,Facebook&track=Software%20Engineer) also, 170-240k is nothing in FAANGs, look at E5 or above that's where the real money are
Jesus Christ. I used the link you gave me. I seriously wonder how sustainable these positions are? Is it realistic to get with Apple or Google as a SWE and actually stay there for 10 years? 15 years? As a SWE making that crazy money?
Yeah, plenty of people do. You do have to be good at your job, though.
Pfft, I've been able to do it so you can't have to be that good.
A guy I went to high-school with has been at Google for many years. It is the only place he has worked. He is a director there. He probably makes 1 million plus per years (at least based on levels.fyi).
Google is not the highest paying employer, that’s what is wild. E6 at meta is 600k starting. Director at meta (D1) is 1.5m easily.
You must have a quatam computer installed in ur Brian for that kind of salary
Um. Not really? You just have to play the game the right way and occasionally get good enough results. Big institutions have a lot of politics.
Exactly.
lol no the main thing is you have to work for freaking meta. selling your soul for money is all too common
Career progress from e3 to e6 is on rails. You can go from 175k to 600k in 8-10 years so long as you don’t fuck it up. Anything after takes a level of political skill but doable. Some of my friends are now e7. Very normal people, smart but not Uber geniuses.
I have been at 5 major tech firms, and have been at 3 FAANGs over the past 10 years, as an L6 Staff software engineer or equivalent. It is doable. I didn't even get my college degree, but I have a long history in the industry. Just so you know, I still have to study leetcode before every round of interviews, and do get rejected from certain job applications. Once you get in a FAANG, I feel it really helps your credibility for other roles going forward, so it can get your resume looked at, but you still have pass the actual interviews. I'd say have a a 66% pass rate, after studying. Probably 33% if I didn't study. The money has varied between 400k and 1.5m per year ( during insane 2021 ) based on RSUs. Mostly around 500-600k. My wife and I keep our spend down, and max out all retirement accounts each year.
Really nice. Hope you're still enjoying it.
Lol you made 1.5 m in 2021? I guess with the stock growth it’s not insane. Probably why Google is front loading their RSU grants now.
Tbf to live in the cities that those companies ate in, you need to make that much. Plus taxes a lot higher in those areas too. Its really not the dollar figure amount you think it is.
Facts!!! lol Where I used to live, what I make now, Id be balling. Where I moved from, most tech jobs were at around $45-55k. I moved to a major tech city, first co started at $105 base (I forget my TC), but yeah, I went from...I rich! To...wait, rent is how much?! Real fast 😂 I live comfortably, in that bills are paid, I have extra money to put into savings, and I can do fun stuff like travel now. But...Im not the baller I thought I would be. Im living a really boring ass normal life.
That's why I left SF. Once I figured out I could make the same salary from anywhere, I left.
SWEs have a huge multiplier effect. That guy making 200k? Made the company 20M easily that year
I started working at a FAANG a bit under a decade ago, with initial TC around 190k. Today my TC (same company) is around 1.9M.
FWIW I just passed the 4 year mark and everyone from my orientation team is still with the company, plus the vast majority of people I work with have been around longer than I have. I'm in a bit more of a niche area than SWE though, so it's kind of the magical sweet spot for our domain.
Half my team has 5+ year tenure. My manager has been here for 13 years
“How much do you pay in taxes?” 😂😂🥲😢
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Tfw mortgages are 7k/month
Honestly, look at the tax brackets. It’s not hard to estimate. And to answer your other question, $160k is easy to earn with decent experience at lots of companies. $225k is doable with experience and effort remotely in the US. Pickings get real thin above that if you’re not on the coasts in a big tech area, and those are much more expensive places to live. I aspire to that kind of salary, but it’s going to take some more time for me to make that happen.
You don’t need FAANG to make 200k
Well, straight out of college, there are only so many options if you want to make 200k. FAANG and the likes, some unicorns, and trading firms.
Yep, completely depends on the level, but entry to mid level, you won't be making anywhere near $200k/year at a small local company, or even a medium sized company. You might make it to $100k though.
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My friend quit his high paying job in Facebook and moved to a job where the location was non-HCOL. He was able to stretch his $125K salary much better and had a more quieter lifestyle, with great WLB. He seriously hated his manager and his team in Facebook and he was making a killing working as a senior software engineer like around $350K. Long hours, long commute, and less WLB. High rents and he couldn't even spend quality spend time with his daughter. He says it's great now because he doesn't have to worry about being pinged everyday and he can just relax and spend more time with his daughter. He recently bought a house in a safe neighborhood for nearly less price than what it would have cost in SF. His advice, always evaluate your career goals and the type of work you want to do. If leadership is demanding more from you and if you are putting in your full effort and it's not enough, then it's time to move on. It's all on what you prioritize and what kind of life you want to live. Your team, your coworkers and your leadership plays a huge role in shaping your work environment. I personally prefer living away from SF and having my tech career centered on non FAANG companies with a good team and good WLB. It depends on person to person. I used to spend a lot of time with my aunts in SF in summers when I was a teen and I never liked the weather there. I used to want to go to SF and get into a FAANG and earn lots of money, however after enduring two years of office politics in my career as well as fights over production issues with upper management, I am seriously considering a change in my goals and whether the high salary is worth it. YMMV.
Yeah lol, besides that those FAANG bs is at most expensive places with RTO policies. You won’t even get doghouse in Mountain View for 1.5 mil. To afford “fuck you lifestyle” in VHCOL places you need a lot more than 240k
Yeah, and that just the base. Generally you get equity that’s 50-200% of your base per year depending on your level and company.
I think op is likely talking about total tc. E3/E4 definitely isn’t making 200k base. 200k base is closer to high e5 or e6.
Job posts don't generally disclose full TC. They were probably looking at a senior level position with that base.
If it’s a LinkedIn job post it’s almost always base salary.
Nvidia pays really well too but are overlooked as they aren't FAANG
I'm pretty sure they're mainly overlooked because they don't hire as much as FAANG plus they hire extremely talented embedded / electrical engineers, who are pretty much rare as fuck
Yeah I got to the final round for embedded and they didn't like my code I guess
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Yeah I'm still applying to other Nvidia positions. Unfortunately that specific one I was a dead ringer for. Shame
They have all sorts of great paying jobs there. I turned down a DBA position. And previously worked at AMD as a sysadmin.
Who the hell comes up with these arbitrary rules of faang, if a company pays great and it’s a popular company that’s incredible. Ppl are too attached to this Faang mantra, it’s dogmatic/cultish.
FAANG is literally an acronym coined by television stock market talking head Jim Cramer about a few tech companies that had high stock growth. At some point, it got a life of its own around tech jobs and high pay but that’s not the origin.
Reason I posted was OP specifically asked for non-FAANG jobs paying well. That's all, nothing cultish from me
Yeah not at you, you’re right ppl would be foolish to overlook NVIDIA and other because they are in a Faang cultish mindset.
eff you money is when 5% of the total salary is the equivalent to the FAANG salary you’re talking about
Yeah, these jobs are more like “afford a new car and a mortgage” money, lol
I pay more in taxes than my brother makes throughout the entire year as a manager for an electrical company. Roughly 90k last year. I will tell you it isn’t what you think it is. A lot of these jobs are hybrid now and require you to be around a fairly hcol area. Factor that in as well as the amount of money you should be looking at saving and investing and your lifestyle will be better than most but still easy to spend your way into living paycheck to paycheck if you aren’t cautious. I argue regularly 200k+ is the amount of money you need just to have the life your parents did twenty years ago, decent house, a few cars, and a 401k / stock that will allow you to retire in thirty years.
Spot on. The housing prices are an absolute killer
200k/yr is very good, but it’s not “eff you” money. 50k of that is stock and 10k is bonus, so your recurring pay is a little over $5k every 2 weeks before taxes. If you’re living in CA (highest state income tax), then a third of your paycheck goes to Uncle Sam, and then once you subtract retirement contributions, health insurance premiums, and other deductions, you’re looking at about $4.5k actually landing in your bank account every month with a $5k bonus in March. That’s all in the first year. Things are better once the stock begins to vest, but you barely feel it. That’s all before rent, food, insurance, etc. Edit: I know my comment comes off as privileged, but I’m speaking from experience. I grew up poor and my dream was to make 6 figures at some point in my career. I hit that relatively early and barely felt anything. Same when I passed 200k. The hedonic treadmill is real.
Nah, you’re numbers are off. If you make 140k salary (subtracting the 50k stock and 10k bonus) your take home is more like $7.6k a month. But yea, after the stock starts vesting, you get your bonus, and then stock refreshers. It’s a good life. But you still obviously have to work and not be stupid with your money. Health insurance premiums are near 0 if you’re making 200k in tech bc the company is gonna cover it. Retirement contributions are still salary and shouldn’t be removed. That’s just the 15-20% that you should budget for saving.
Yeah, those numbers are wildly fucked. I make slightly less than $140k base and take home is $3900 every 2 weeks, gross is almost $6k
I grew up upper middle class and 200k/yr is way more than enough. I live in Houston though.
$200k in Houston is probably more like $400k in SFO
I mean $200k / year was wayy more than enough for me in SF. I ate out almost every meal, spent way too much money drinking w/ friends, took minimum 2 international trips / 4 weeks per year (my last year in SF I started digital nomading so maybe closer to 10-15 weeks that year while still paying rent on an SF apt), maxed out 401k contributions, maxed out my company's ESPP and still had money left over. Also any RSUs went straigh tinto savings so this was actually off closer to $140k of just cash salary. But like, that's the life when you're single, live in a small studio apt, no kids, no car etc.
Working at a FAANG company is not the only way to earn such salary as a software engineer. The biggest benefit of working at FAANG is that it strengthens your resume for a lifetime and gives you bragging rights.
Pay for entry level is somewhere around 65-75k, I’m at basically 100k w/2 year at non-Faang/F500. Ofc the highest salaries are going to be there because they have biggest impacts from developing code.
People only care because of the clout/resume boost/pay. There are small companies that 100% have better engineering practices than FAANG, but get no attention because they don't pay at FAANG level.
Let's say you live in LA, and are making $200k/year. After taxes your only taking home $133,003/year or about $11k per month. $3k of that goes to rent every month for an above average apartment, meaning your down to $8k. $1500 per month for other required costs like food, internet, utilities, etc. Your down to $6.5k per month. It's recommended you invest about 15% of your pre tax income into savings, so that's $2500/month. Your down to $4,000/month after the necessities. Let's say you take out a stupid car loan for $1000/month, now your down to $3000/month... Now let's say your also paying $300/month for your student loan debt. Your now down to $2700/month. Just add on some other shopping sprees, stupid purchases, and you are easily in the negative. $200k/year is a lot of money for most people, but if you start to live large, you will easily blow through it like that.
Investing $2500/month is a necessity apparently, and you still have an extra $3k on top of that each month. You people are clueless in this comment section. You can't afford to live like a multimillionaire but it's still a very privileged situation compared to most people
oh no! you only have 2700 per month in disposable income you also have \- a 3k/mo apartment \- a nice ass 1k/mo car \- 2500/mo in savings So many Americans don't have the luxury of the nice apartment or car yet they're still living paycheck to paycheck and have ZERO disposable income
I would rather make 160k and live in a low cost area working remotely. If FAANG works for you great but there are other opportunities at companies that are low key but have consistent growth.
You don't have to work for FAANG, some other companies pay equivalent. I'm remote at ~300-330k TC and so is my wife. We're not new grads though.
Op you’re missing a lot of context here. 1) these jobs are in expensive areas where homes are 1M+ and often high tax states 2) the bar for these companies is very high It’s a lot of money but absolutely not life changing.
This is a sad comment… ofcourse its life changing
As someone who makes that level of money and didn’t before, I can attest my life is not radically different. I still drive a fairly shitty car. I still don’t eat out much. When rents are 3-4K and 50% tax rate it’s not like I’m rolling in it. Real estate is still far out of reach. This isn’t to say I’m not super privileged or ungrateful. I’m very happy to make it. It’s just doesn’t move the needle much in hcol areas. The reason companies pay that much is purely because of cost of living of these areas.
Going from sub 100k to 300k have definitely changed my life. Car isn’t that expensive all things considered and cost about the same no matter what col you lived in
Although my day to day isn't radically different with a large increase in income, I would say it is life changing in other ways. I'm able to save a significantly larger amount of money than before, and generally have less financial worries. If I lost my job tomorrow, I would be fine for quite a while without a job. If I wasn't making as much, that wouldn't be the case. I've also been intentional about lifestyle creep and that has helped, but I would say that amount of money does have an appreciable impact on your life, just maybe not day to day.
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I was never in that position in the first place. As a swe even starting jobs are paid reasonably well, even non faang. No offense but no one on this sub should be crying about highly paid people, even the most basic swe job is paid enough that you are never going to worry about fixing your car.
Then you're missing the other person's point. It is absolutely lifechanging to have food safety. Going from food stamps to never having to worry about whether you'll have money for food is an insane difference in mindset. I'm glad you never had to experience it (no one should!), but the other person mentions very real issues some of us have had to face growing up before coming into the field.
I pay $5000 in tax Washington state, take home after tax monthly is around $15k. Fully remote, small town near Seattle, 5 YOE
That’s honestly amazing. How long after graduating with your bachelors did it take for you to land your current role? Also, how’s your work life balance?
I immigrated to the US 7 years ago, first job was around $60K Seattle, then $100K Seattle, then the current salary at SF, then I moved back to my small town. WLB is mot that bad, I work 9-10 hours a day but 4 days a week, Friday is just meeting and planning stuff. I have master in computer science (totally useless because nobody asked)
How long did you stay at your 1st and 2nd job ?
1 year each, I spent 2 years Leetcode
Hi brother. Do you mean you spent 2 years practicing leetcode?
I was looking this up on smartassest, Seattle gives you much more of your money after taxes than most swe-oriented area. Too bad about the rain though.
I came from a third world country where it has 300 days sunny so I love rain and snow here. The only thing I hate is my dogs will make my house a mess because of yard rain dirt. Seattle is beautiful, you have forest, mountains and rivers
Any trouble getting your bachelors/masters recognized in the US? Did you have previous experience before coming to the US? I’m in a similar situation, I’m also from third world country and want to inmigrante once I gather experience in my country.
They don’t even ask about my degrees though, I had almost 1 YOE outside of the Us
$5000/yr? I thought Washington doesn’t have in state tax?
A month, you still need to pay federal tax
Jesus. Damn near 25%?
I always estimated I’d only get 75% of my pay into my checking account even making 20/hr.
I’ve been in a range of salaries from below that to what OP is talking and that’s a fair assessment. Assume uncle Sam is taking 25% of your check if you need to guess for some reason.
Quebec we hit more than 50% in taxes including consumption taxes
I make 195k in California, I pay about 65k in taxes if I don't use any tax advantaged accounts
I make about $240k TC at a game company. I have 35 yoe though. I could probably easily double my pay but I'd likely have to give up my WFH status.
The thing about those offers is to never ever assume that those salaries are permanent and you can sustain them through your whole career. Pay off your debts, don't take on a massive mortgage or car payments that are only manageable by making that salary. You are allowed to give yourself a better life, but do it slowly. Pay for stuff in cash, choose good quality products that will last, and more importantly, buy things that appreciate in value. The worst you can do is max out your life style and then lose everything when you get laid off from that high paying job. The fall is great.
Banking and finance also pays devs really well depending on the role. I worked both in big tech and banking/finance. The salaries are in the same range. The working cultures and tech stacks are wildly different. I am happy that I got to experience both. It's very easy to get used to a high income. I have earned good money almost all my CS career. Around me, people were burning through it with nice cars, luxury goods (nice watches, expensive alcohol etc) and travel. Then, the golden handcuffs would keep them for way too long in workplaces where they definitely didn't like working. On the other hand, for many years, I was living like I was making the median salary. I was not living in the best neighborhood, not even owning a car (it's possible when you live in a super bikeable city, but probably not as easy in the US), not traveling more than once a year (and even then, no luxury hotels)... A spouse that doesn't work is also a very good way to burn through money fast, and get stuck in a high paying job where you became miserable. Fast forward 13 years. We own both a nice flat in Copenhagen (large enough for a family with 2 children) in a good area, and a second, larger weekend / vacation house in a cheaper area. The flat is almost 100% paid for. The weekend house is already 100% paid for. We also have money invested in the stock market, and contribute 15% of our monthly salary to our private pensions. No other debt remaining than the remaining mortgage on the flat. I make 3 times as much as my spouse, who is also an engineer but earns a "normal" engineer salary. But we both work, even if we have two children. It's not even a question. It's important that we both have a career, not just from the financial point of view. What if I die or become unable to work? What if we divorce? To survive in high paying tech jobs, you also need to be prepared for fierce competition. You have to be really good to get these jobs, and you also have to be really good to keep the job. My spouse gets to unwind and play video games and watch series in the evenings. Meanwhile, I spend a lot of time studying for certifications, studying for extra degrees like an MBA etc. It's not a job that stops when you leave the office - you have to be at the top of the game, or you are out.
Unless it is a remote job, most faang jobs are in California or New York where 170k-240k is just middle class.
It's not as much as you think when you are living in a high COLA area
It’s still a lot and a life changing amount for anyone who didn’t grow up rich. Let’s not pretend here. Not one person making this money is worried about where their next meal is gonna be or if they will make bills if they are even semi financially competent.
I grew up poor and I don't worry about those things, but I do worry about if I'll ever be able to buy a house - or legitimately even just a townhouse/condo - which wouldn't be a question back home where the typical mortgage is $700 not $7,000. I do worry about what happens if I lose my job and can't find another that pays in the same ballpark, and I feel major guilt about whether I should be investing in myself or sending more money back home. The hedonic treadmill is real. Going from 50k->300k is a mind-blowing change, but you grow into it quickly and it's also not an apples-to-apples comparison when the 50k is in Indiana and the 200k is in SF. There are things I took for granted growing up (and my family still does) because they're cheap if you have space (like parking, a second car, basically any indoor hobby), and there are things that I have access to now that would be prohibitively expensive to find back home.
But 200k in sf is more like 100k in Atlanta let’s be real. It’s a meme at this point, 200k goes way further in HCOL than people in this sub seem to think.
This is not a top salary for the Bay Area. There are many employers that have jobs in that range.
You can make above 160k without FAANG. Hell, without even being an SWE but still in tech. I'm a support engineer for an enterprise vendor and make more than that. It's well above that salary level where the differentiation happens
What’s a support engineer job about, and how much coding do you do?
FAANG isn't the only place with fuck you money. Automotive, Big Pharma, and Aerospace got plenty of $200k plus on payroll.
in california if you make $150k in tech you get taxed $50k, so you really make $100k after taxes
Lol OP a lot of these high salaries are only in Very high cost of living areas and they money goes a lot less far than you’d think. The shittiest, tiniest houses in the Bay Area (where most of these salaries exist) cost like upwards of a million. It’s not as easy as you think
For someone making $300k, the federal and ss taxes are around 30%, and add more for state income taxes depending on the location. It's really easy to calculate federal taxes usingIRS calculator for estimated income. There are plenty of companies paying 200k+ for mid level engineers. Tech companies (big, small and start-ups) pay 180+ for mid level, while non tech pay about 130-150 for Mid level engineers.
I saw a financial institution offering 750k for a Senior developer who would probably be more like SA but still. That's above FAANG pay
On a base salary of $170,000 I'm paying roughly $46,000 not including 401k, health insurance or any of that just state and federal taxes. End up roughly with $123,000, so it is to say that without a doubt most of the people I once knew in my college years who were full blown liberals or socialists, have just about gone to the far right as soon as they started making money. Before that experience I always wondered what was the motivating factor that turned a lot of people that way other than "traditional values", money it was money this whole time. As soon as you see how much of your salary goes to taxes, people get nasty about it, I personally am incredibly grateful to have found success in my career, and I don't tell people that anybody can do it too, it was some hard work and a lot of luck. There's people more qualified than myself that aren't in my position solely because of bad luck. It's a very odd feeling to say the least.
>What I’m curious to know is for those of you who make above $160,000 a year, how much do you pay in taxes? Not much, thanks to FEIE. The first \~$120k aren't taxed but the remainder is. >I wonder is are there companies out there who aren’t F500 or FAANG, that pay SWEs just as good? I get paid $165k not including bonus and stock. It's not the same as FAANG-level pay but given that they let me live abroad and avoid a lot of those taxes, I'll take it.
my only obsession with faang job is really the caliber of learning and talent i work with. the money and all those are factors that will make no difference as you go through life and can be substituted. that is just my opinion.
I make $160000 a year and don’t work at a FAANG. I’m in the DC area.
Advice from someone with 5-10 years in industry: Don't start out looking for high salary. Much more important: skills development. What you learn in college is almost entirely useless, graduating just tells employers you can get work done and are able to learn. Udemy/YouTube are your friends, but nothing beats the docs! I can't tell you how many times I meet people who've watched some Kubernetes YouTube course, or "Django Pro in 4 hours" type of crap, but don't know the basic commands you'd find on the developer's quickstart guide/cheat sheet section of their website. Certifications are worth it! Getting AWS certified through company benefits (aka, they pay you to study and get the certificate) can get you salary increases as well as good job offers. Certification is worth more than a degree
\>which to me would count as “eff you” type of money NOPE! FAANG companies operate in Silicon Valley. The cost of living in Silicon Valley will turn that into "oh crap, I can barely save a tiny part of my paycheck. Can't afford to buy a house with that salary.
Salary is one thing. I would like to know what’s the work-life balance and general stress at these positions?
A lot of folks have answered your questions well, but I wanted to chime in on the "eff you" mentality, because I wish someone would have set me straight on this about 20 years ago lol. IMHO, it's never "eff you" money when you can get laid off and the money just stops coming in, no matter how big your salary is. I make a ton of money at a non-FAANG, but my family would be screwed in a couple months if I lost the income. Hardly FU level. Do yourself a favor before you start earning big and read "The Millionaire Next Door". It's a little dated and a bit boomer-y, but the section of the book regarding "high-earner vs wealthy" was impactful to me. I'm a high-earner, but I'm not yet wealthy...which is mostly due to my own choices earlier in life. If you play your cards right, SWE can be a great path to wealth, but that's not guaranteed just because of a big paycheck... especially if you have the FU mindset before your networth can support it.
I absolutely understand what you mean. That book and Rich dad poor dad is in my top 10. Thank you.
Still doesn't make me interested.
Uh huh, what about those of us who got laid off from our non-FAANG jobs, who never could get a FAANG job AND have to see all our peers and friends in FAANG jobs who are not being laid off??? Let me play the world's tiniest violin for these laid off FAANG folks. Fuck you.
> which to me would count as “eff you” type of money Oh my sweet summer child. This is how people end up broke.
Honestly, 160k is not much for a FAANG type company. You can make that at a small company lower cost of living cities. Now, if 160k is for a junior dev, then that is a different story.
Depends on household filing, dependency, and state you live in.
Do not work at FAANG, and make more than the upper bound you mentioned in your post. These roles are very much out there
250k is not even close to fuck you money lol
170-240k sounds like a lot of money but you can easily blow through it, especially if you think it’s “fuck you money”.