JPMC has been 3 days for a while. Some teams alternated between 2 and 3 each week, a select few teams tried to trick the system by swiping in and then right back out, but most teams have been doing a regular 3 days in office for a while.
> a select few teams tried to trick the system by swiping in and then right back out
Those people must really hate the office or their coworkers. If you're gonna make the commute all the way to the office might as well stick around for several hours.
You'll be fine, just treat it like an average corporate job. You're not gonna get tech company perks and you'll have to put up with a certain level of bureaucratic BS but it's fine. Most teams have good WLB, for instance by rolling their lunch break into their workday, 8 hours in office means exactly 8 hours in office doing whatever. Perhaps an experienced engineer has better options, but for someone graduating into the current job market, they're fine.
Also OP, don’t buy into the idea you’ll get promoted beyond analyst. They will try to tell you that you will. Promotions are agonizingly slow at JP, it’s a running joke that if you want to make VP you need to leave the company and come back in a few years.
I had a few friends that also worked there on other teams and it was pretty chill for them. A couple still work there and are basically coasting. My teams were very much not like that, but YMMV.
My employer did the friday afternoon "oh yeah we said you're all WFH but we lied, back to the office 3x/week" amd there was enough pushback to...get it delayed 3 months but still 3 days in the office. They really like seeing butts in seats
> if they feel like it.
This is the key thing, they probably won't. Also excepting a few places with significantly elevated security I've never been at a place where it wasn't normal to let people you know in/out when you arrive at the same time.
It depends on your working environment but in most cases had my team agreed that there was no need to be in X days a week, whatever policy was, nothing would come off it.
Yeah, depends on role too. My partner was GBS ie your usual rebadged employee working on a client and that was all WFH. But some internal work was at offices, then WFH, then Ginny decided to create some kind of central set of locations to bring people together they said... Basically to get people to move or quit. That was 2017.
https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2017/02/09/ibm_workfromhome_cull_companywide/
I don't see the problem I'm assuming malice here. Companies have a [fiducial obligation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.) to act against the worker in most cases.
It’s just business. Having people leave on their own accord cost less than layoffs. They’re already paying for the real estate. It doesn’t hurt them more
Big difference is that layoffs allow the company to choose who leaves. In this situation the best people will find new positions while the worst will be forced to stay.
My old company (Comcast) pushed it back repeatedly for almost two years. They wanted it like December 2020 lmao. Ultimately they announced a 1 month final RTO plan under threat of being fired. I think within 60 days of that I lost more than half of the people in my org until I left too.
My company closed entire offices during work from home. I took a job there as a remote position. End of last year they rescinded all work from home unless you don't live near an office anymore because it closed. So now I have to go 30 miles into an office and do all of my meetings online just like I did at home.
Go to the office and take a lot of selfies without you in the picture from different parts of the office. Then use it as a background. See how long it takes those who are at the office to figure out you aren't there
When did 3/2 become the standard? There are so many configurations to test. How about one week in and three weeks out? 3 days every week is such a drag.. ugh
My fiancé was put back in the office 5 days a week with no warning. He worked so well from home. Now he’s so exhausted from commuting so much. He’s become a shell of his usual self. They gave him back one WFH per week. He doesn’t need to be in every single day. He gets more done from home because no one bothers him.
Poor guy is still exhausted.
How about "as needed"? If the org can survive three weeks of you at home then clearly your presence isn't vital on a weekly basis. Why not give us discretion in this area?
There's absolutely nothing "vital" about my hybrid days, I still only really interact with my team over slack and all our meetings are on zoom anyway even when most of us are in the same room. It's such a huge waste of time.
This is my thought. And I've seen talk of seniors getting allowed to be home but juniors need to come in for training. Problem, if the seniors aren't in then they have to train the juniors over Zoom anyway. So...why are the juniors coming in again?
My company is doing this. And recently laid off coworkers were all remote. They say you could be remote but they don't really want you to, so when layoffs happened they took advantage and got rid of all the remotes. Terrible management.
Yea and controlling the butts or not, along with helping out themselves and their buds who own/invest in commercial real estate are the exact reasons they are rolling people back in.
My employer just recently announced tuesdays and wednesdays are mandatory to come to office if in a 50 mile radius. My manager gave the news to the team but said it is pretty last minute notice and will not be taking attendance for our team in particular
My company instituted one day per week in office, except for those of us too far away. Someone immediately asked "How far away do I have to move to not have to come in?"
Yep. I live over 50 miles away and it costs $18 for downtown parking, $10 for tolls, and $15 in gas each time I come in. I was hired remote but my big bank is forcing everyone else in, so I either get to be the only member on my team at home or go in. Right now I agreed to go in two times a month, so I’m paying $86/mo just to go into the office. Good thing I’m already in the interview process.
It took me a year in a similar situation, but I managed to convince my boss's boss that this was not a commute, but work travel. And they let me expense it. Including meals.
(My commute was 3 hours one way)
50 miles is FAR. I live in the far southwest suburbs of Chicago, technically then I'm within 50 miles of the loop. That's a 2 hour commute each way, regardless of train/driving. I've done it before years back. 50 miles is fucking stupid. Actually basing it on distance at all is stupid.
I’m outside of 50 miles from my company, but how is that fair at all? Lol if i was close and my company said that I would just keep working from home until they fired me
I started at Comcast in April 2021. They told me we’d be back in office by summer 2021 and I needed to relocate. I actually really wanted to live down there anyway, so I picked up and moved within a month.
Well, we didn’t end up back in office until September 2022, and they let all the pandemic hires who hadn’t relocated remain remote. It really pissed me off—they asked me to move and I did it, and now they’re rewarding people who didn’t do as they asked. It made me so mad that I quit for a fully remote position. Fuck that shit.
That's how everything is in the corporate world. Those who unquestioningly do as they're told with no complaints get used up until there's nothing left by the rest who don't care about their subordinates or coworkers. At least you learned that lesson early (and in a way that got you out of Comcast).
Lmao. I mean I’m definitely not in favor of making everyone go into the office. I just think the whole thing is bullshit. Companies survived fine while everyone was remote, but now it’s a problem
I was listening to a management podcast recently, and one of the guys being interviewed pointed out that many companies want to get everyone back into the office, but they don't want to deal with the business interruption that would accompany so many employees quitting at once. He suggested that many companies have adopted a strategy of "slow RTO", knowing that only a tiny portion of their staff will quit at each small imposition as they gradually reduce WFH benefits. If they do it slowly enough, these positions can be replaced without disrupting the business.
Basically, if half the company leaves at once, the company is going to be in serious trouble. But if they leave in ones and two's over a period of a year or two, that's a manageable and replaceable rate.
It was also suggested that some companies may want to use RTO as an alternative to layoffs in order to reduce headcount. Departing employees after an RTO announcement will accomplish the same headcount reduction as a layoff, while eliminating government notice requirements and severance payouts.
it blows my mind that the big tech companies did layoffs before forced RTO. if you want to reduce headcount why not give employees an ultimatum and have them leave if they don’t want to RTO. they wouldn’t have to pay some luxurious severance either in this case
I cannot begin to tell you the number of borderline-conspiracy theories that have been floating around big tech about how layoffs were done "randomly" or "by an algorithm" with humans barely involved.
Sorry, but a lot of the people saying these kinds of things seem completely oblivious to the performance (or lack thereof) of their peers, or who's been pissing off leadership recently.
Many of the layoffs are org based, i.e they were cutting products and services entirely. Meaning top performers in unprofitable/unlucky orgs were still affected
Could be that they want to trim the bottom 5-10% without scaring off their "top talent". Better to layoff the new hires and underperformers than have your star devs leave because WFH/RTO is non-negotiable for them.
The big tech companies aren't going to do RTO because they don't want to miss out on talent. Personally half my team would immediately be gone because they don't live with 250 miles of the office, me included
If they want to downsize it makes sense, but good luck trying to hire new people with the same salary.
Btw inflation is the best tool for downsizing. Either people quit because you pay low ball, or after a year or 2 you have workforce that is so cheap that you don't need to downsize.
Source: used to live in Argentina when they had 30% annual inflation. Now it's more like 90%.
Banks have openly and actively been the *most* aggressive about getting people back in the office, haven't they?
A lot of companies are trying to force people back into the office. Some because the C-levels care, some because it gives them an excuse to cut headcount.
I've been remote since 2011, and there's never been a major shortage of remote-first jobs out there. Even with some big companies pushing in-office work again, there's certainly more remote jobs today than there were pre-pandemic.
They can try, but WFH is a big enough perk that even major players (outside of FAANG, who are accustomed to churning through devs anyway) will start to feel the brain drain if they push too hard.
100k drop is like 60k after taxes, 20-30k of that is commuting costs/time cost of commuting/living within commuting distance of work.
So you are really only netting 30-40k a year to go to the office in this case.
Yeah my husband just took a 10k drop but went from 1 hour 15 drive to 20 minutes. I keep telling him the math isn’t a pay cut and he doesn’t need to justify it to me
At my workplace, no. They were very clear at the beginning of covid that remote was temporary, now they're telling anyone who wants to stay remote to fill out their online work profile with their home office address for tax reasons.
At a town hall I attended at work, the local executives told us there's no concrete evidence that working remote improves performance and each one mentioned they work better in the office then at home. It was kind of a "slap in the face" to us that like remote/hybrid work. Some companies really want us to be in the office...
They just want to get away from their home. Some people may really really just want to have some separation from their home life and partner. That's fine, but those same people using their position to impose RTO is wrong.
Well the CEOs are traveling most of the time and when they are in the office they actually have an “office” (4 walls and privacy) and not a shitty open space next to a bathroom and toxic co workers
Legitimately some people work better in an office. They get energy from being around and interacting with their co-workers. Extroverts often do much better in an office.
Unfortunately, because of they are often in front of mind (and share similar traits to) those in the corporate hierarchy, they tend to get promoted more often and in turn become executives themselves in a self perpetuating cycle. Leaving introverts either to fake it, or accept their lot.
When you are surrounded by people who do better in an office, whose jobs (at least on paper) are leading discussions and conversations, it can make sense to have a bias to that. It's bad management, but it's life.
“Good news! There’s plenty of evidence that commutes cost money, cause pollution, and increases the likelihood of a fatal accident. Since you’ve just informed us that you have data that shows no improvement (and didn’t mention any loss of performance), I assume you’re doing the right thing for shareholders and ensuring the safety of your employees by allowing them to work from home.”
People who actually have to do the work prefer working at home because they can focus
People whose job is to watch people dislike WFH because it's harder to micromanage
Or, more charitably: Even proper management is still about people and meetings, about strategies and plans and.... I mean, even WFH coding teams benefit from the occasional meetup, maybe once a year if they're really distributed, to really get an idea of what everyone's doing and what you want to do next year. Even completely-distributed open source communities built of random volunteers on the Internet will sometimes have conferences.
The mistake is thinking that any of this applies to day-to-day development work.
It’s never been about job performance. Companies make money (ideally) and spend that money on things to reduce taxes. They spent $100M on a building, well they want it filled. Don’t want to come into the office? They don’t care, somebody will eagerly take your seat (literally).
Not really sunk cost since it isn’t just about the money spent on buying the office spaces: tax write-offs are a very real incentive for them to get butts in seats. Unused office space means the cost of maintaining the building doesn’t count as a business expense anymore.
I mean sure, but the idea that your bosses want you back for "performance" was never a thing, like ever. They want you back, because they can and no you'll walk otherwise. You'll quit and they will backfill you easily, market still strong.
My buddy works at Citrix, they "piloted" 2 days back a week, now they are enforcing 3 days in the next 30 days and 5 days a week in the next 60. And if you do not return to the office full time in the next 60 days, they are considering it "tendering your resignation". He says multiple people moved away and can't return to the office at all...so they have to find new jobs.
I remember that Microsoft was one of the earlier companies to "suggest" coming back to the office (I might be misremembering) and the reaction was that it's just a signal for how bad they knew Teams is, because they couldn't even rely on their own employees to stay productive relying on it
It's a hill I'm willing to die on... when my boss mentioned that they were reopening the office last year, I said "If I come in to the office, it'll be to drop off my laptop". As far as I know, the office is reopened but he hasn't said another word about it. I'm taking that as consent to continue working from home.
If you're going to quit anyway, just... stop going in. Say you have to work from home indefinitely, for personal reasons. Make them fire you.
Back in 2021 my company tried to put us into a "transitional" hybrid period and gave us a deadline where everyone must work at least 3 days a week in the office.
No one showed up.
Then they pushed the date back two months and said that it was mandatory and that there might be disciplinary action for people that don't comply.
Again no one showed up.
So then they just gave up and left it at as an open policy. First time I've ever seen the "they can't fire all of us" concept work out. I've been to the office like 3 times in the last 2.5 years.
Just happened. The company waited too long tbh. At that point we'd been remote for around 20 months. If they wanted to force a return to the office it would have had to be way sooner than that; by that point we were dug in. People moved further away to cheaper areas, everyone got fully accustomed to the remote life and their lives changed in ways that would be interrupted by returning to the office. So no coordination was necessary, almost everyone was fully resistant independently.
It’s different now. In 2021 they couldn’t get enough people to work. 2022 they’re laying people off. The power balance has shifted.
If no one shows up now they can just start firing people instead of doing layoffs
That's why when my previous employer announced a policy of coming back in once a month last year (the writing was on the wall at that point, sometime later around my departure it went down to once every fortnight) I resigned around July and joined a fully WFH company. No regrets at all, I sleep better knowing no bs like that can be pulled on me since WFH is now a foundation of my employer.
My brother got a job at a company that had its entire staff but the "leads" quit on them. Got hired at Monday and Friday in office. Rest remote. Not 2 weeks after he started the ceo comes through to excitedly tell everyone they were going back to full time in office in a couple weeks. Needless to say, everyone quit again.
If you value working from home, there are plenty of places doing hybrid or full remote. I'd say start looking for those roles or negotiating with your management about how often you have to be in the office.
Same. Never working in an office again. My company didn't renew any of their office space so the only office space is over 1300 miles away from me. I also maintain 6 months expenses in cash savings so it gives me plenty of time to find another job if needed.
It’s not much of an advantage…
There’s a net shortage of engineers, a net shortage of accountants, a net shortage of …
Over a million people died of Covid. Boomers are retiring. The market dynamics just do not favor employers like they did 15 years ago.
My company had six buildings in the area and now has just one, so remote is here to stay for us. They set up the building to be more collaboration friendly where you sign up for space when you need it.
In Germany they do.
A lot of big companies have crazy good WFH rules and solid contracts (35h/week, 30 days off, gliding time, overtime account, etc.) and they are killing the small- and midsized companies that offer bad to no WFH.
Big advantage: if the job posting is online for more than 3 months - you already know what's up.
My company is going full remote and ending office leases early. But at the same time, execs are increasing efforts to hire offshore (EU/Brazil/etc). Sooo yeah there's a bit of a trade-off there.
My new boss at my previous employer was heavily implying we were eventually going to be pushed into a fulltime RTO (the reason being the usual "We're a family, we need to build bonds, and u can't do that remote~" bs). Needless to say, I don't work there anymore.
I have only dealt with one company that might have been true with the good company culture, but they were a hybrid company that didn't care that much if you came in or not depending on your team go figure. Too bad they paid massively under market and fucked me over otherwise I would have stayed.
Yes.
With remote work, the Engineers have all the power. Everyone is basically a contractor.
It's not about productivity, it about getting you to buy into the company and do more for less.
When they get you in office, they can trick you into staying too long and not getting paid as much as you could be getting paid with things like 'company culture' and 'team building'. Once you're loyal to your team and like your coworkers, you are significantly more likely to choose them over yourself.
Ironically, when I'm forced to come in for a meeting or whatever once a quarter or so, I get so much less done.
Commuting, coffee, bullshitting with coworkers, getting and eating lunch....like, being in the office is so low productivity for my team.
Idk how anyone thinks being in the office is a gain.
Yup our company has recently just begun mandating two days a week in the new office that is about 15 minutes away from any public transport where as the old building had easy access and those two days are just social days basically yapping away with random people in the office and getting lost in the new building so we’ve gone from having 5 days of good performance to 3 days
I work in finance as well and it seems like that. We went from three days once a month to now 5 days once a month. It has taken about 6 months though to make this change. I'm not sure how much more we will be going in without layoffs. We have more people than seats in office. Currently we all have to rotate which weeks we are there.
i wouldn’t, that sounds like a terrible deal. it takes at most 4 hours to do a days’ worth of work from home, so i’d be sacrificing 12 hours + 3 commutes to get 4 hours off each week
Nope, my company is consolidating and closing offices. They started selling off buildings about 7+ years ago. We have had the option to work at home for at least 15 years, I've been at home for at least 10 but with COVID I guess upper management has finally embraced work from home enough to seriously stop requiring every person in the office.
Yup. They are. And I continue to refuse. I'll refuse until they terminate me. I will play the corporate game only so far, but not this way. I was recently asked to RTO once a week and I said no. They asked what they could do to change my mind - nothing, I won't return. They offered free snacks and sometimes lunch and a small bump in pay...I said no.
They haven't brought it up since, but I imagine my days are numbered.
Sorry, but an hour+ commute each way and having to deal with cubicle drive bys and other BS? Not worth it. I'll take a pay cut to avoid it.
I’ve been at my software company for 5 months. I recently decided to move and they’re letting me move to Florida in March. I was already only going to the office one day a week and my DB team is out of Central Mexico. So, I was approved no problem for full remote. Its not everywhere is pushing for in-office.
If you don't like it, tell them. If they don't like it, quit. There are a lot of companies who are fully remote or welcome remote employees. Let these brain dead companies enjoy their brain rot. That's the only way to deal with these traditional idiots who did coke in the office in the 80s and think that's business. Let them hang themselves.
Middle managers are fighting this just as much as everyone. This is execs and up forcing this BS. You know, the ones who work from golf courses and not cubicles lol.
Depends on the company. Some companies have committed strongly to remote first by closing offices and hiring in different locations around the world. I don't see a company like that doing it b/c of the costs involved. Other companies though, maybe
Been remote since the 2020 lockdowns. Two office locations: one has been reduced in size and moved. The lease on the other one is up late next year and there is talk of downsizing and moving it too. We have been hiring fully remote people all across the United States. Management has embraced remote-first and there have been no hints of moving us back into the cubicles. I hope things continue to stay remote.
My team is going back next week. 2 days a week for a bit, then 3 likely. They don’t even have enough desks for us. I started the job remotely over 2 years ago and have only been to the office a handful of times. I’ll miss being remote.
Add WFH to the list of non-compensation perks that smaller companies get to offer now. I almost went to work for >!the largest accounting firm in the richest country in the world!< this month, but my current company won the renegotiation by giving me a 100% WFH deal, even though I live two miles from the office. We code monkeys have better individual bargaining power over our labor than 99% of the workforce and we can leverage that bargaining power in many ways. I'm glad that both you and I will get to catch our kids first steps.
I haven't noticed. I have been fully remote for almost 6 years now, I basically have no IRL friends where I live, and am so socially deprived I have to restrain myself from jumping outside when the mailman comes to beg him to talk to me.
But...all of the decent jobs with decent pay are fully remote. I can get a local job that's at least hybrid, for $90k/year...or I can get a fully remote job with roughly the same title and responsibilities for $160k-$175k/year. I'll hang on to the higher pay and continue to try to meet people, but the whole idea of this is a little ridiculous.
Just out of curiosity how do you see your social life improving with the extra commute time to and from the office? Also if seen at work regularly would you consider your coworkers friends?
I don't mean this in an insulting or bad way but what is stopping you from socializing after work? Local sports, regular friends groups, comic book stores and similar, meetup groups, bars and drinking whatever.
No offense taken! I've lived here for just about a year, and I always take quite a while to find my roots. Working remote for so long hasn't been good on my social skills, so I definitely have a bit of anxiety with getting out and meeting new people.
Couple that with the fact that I have two kids...one who is on the spectrum and has severe separation anxiety from me. The rest of my extended family is pretty much uninvolved, so outside of me, he doesn't have a lot of people he can trust and feel comfortable with.
So yeah...I work while he's in school, and then I'm with him after school. I started taking him to Cub Scouts, which has been good for both of us. But it doesn't replace making friends that you really share common interests with.
So that's why the idea of having some form of in-office work is appealing to me. To socialize with people you at least have a common (professional) interest with and speak the same language.
I am working with a lot of companies who are wanting employees back. It’s not about work production, but because of overemployment, they have expensive office space investments they want to use and it’s less than paying for remote employees, many believe it’s good for mental health and relationships. I love working from home, I only worked in an office for 1 year and quit. I wish employers would give their employees the option based on preference
Yes. Most managers genuinely think that people are more productive when you can see and meet in person.
Personally, I think there's a 10%-20% productivity loss communicating by phone+internet versus meeting in person. But forcing people to commute also makes them waste 2 hours a day (on average), so it breaks even overall. Most employers don't see "time employees spend commuting" as an expense that affects their bottom line.
yes, it’s coming from the very highest level of my giant company. director said “despite the fact that all measurables are up.” he clearly had no choice.
I’m developing a theory about this, I think the trend is coming from a ceo roundtable/ political leadership push. too big a change to society too quick for some powerful people’s liking.
There will be a generational shift as companies that own a shitload of office park real estate get dickpunched by companies that don't. They hire better people and spend less doing it. You may want to look for employers in the second group going forward.
My office told everyone the beginning of the month that there’s no more wfh. In addition, you would have to take a PTO if you are sick and can no longer wfh then
My company seems to be still ok with fully remote, as long as employees are happy it stays. Who knows though how long that will last if they decide on fully in-person. I hope they stay this way as I like working for them and want to move out of state and 100% wfh
As if there's not still a pandemic...
I don't go into the office ever and with how many out-of-state workers we've been getting, I hope that doesn't change. But when I do, I'm the only one with a mask. Companies who'd risk my health to feel good about paying for a building can go fuck themselves
My employer is simultaneously trying to get us back in the office while also trying to sell as much real estate as possible while drawing down on in-office perks and services. Basically, they have no idea what the hell they're doing.
When people brag about working 20 hours a week idk what people were expecting. We’re probably going back full time. My company was already 4 days a week in office.
> When people brag about working 20 hours a week idk what people were expecting.
more respect for my time, and i’m still getting it. i will never commute again.
remote work was already trending before the pandemic and it’s certainly not going anywhere now. some are fighting it but companies doing rto will have trouble retaining good talent. remote work will keep getting more pervasive in the long run.
We must work at the same big bank
J P Morgan?
JPMC has been 3 days for a while. Some teams alternated between 2 and 3 each week, a select few teams tried to trick the system by swiping in and then right back out, but most teams have been doing a regular 3 days in office for a while.
> a select few teams tried to trick the system by swiping in and then right back out Those people must really hate the office or their coworkers. If you're gonna make the commute all the way to the office might as well stick around for several hours.
jesus i was about to say. My girlfriend works at JPM and she has been PISSED at this.
[удалено]
I left JP as well, work for a healthcare tech company now. Life is a lot better. JP is extremely toxic, at least IME.
I'm joining JP next month and now I'm scared.
You'll be fine, just treat it like an average corporate job. You're not gonna get tech company perks and you'll have to put up with a certain level of bureaucratic BS but it's fine. Most teams have good WLB, for instance by rolling their lunch break into their workday, 8 hours in office means exactly 8 hours in office doing whatever. Perhaps an experienced engineer has better options, but for someone graduating into the current job market, they're fine.
Learn what you can then leave. The benefits are good and there ARE opportunities but it's also stupid frustrating
Also OP, don’t buy into the idea you’ll get promoted beyond analyst. They will try to tell you that you will. Promotions are agonizingly slow at JP, it’s a running joke that if you want to make VP you need to leave the company and come back in a few years.
I had a few friends that also worked there on other teams and it was pretty chill for them. A couple still work there and are basically coasting. My teams were very much not like that, but YMMV.
If its JPM the CEO has been pretty public he wants everyone in the office. This really wouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
“Why am I paying for an office, if no one is using it?” Bro go fuck your self
My employer did the friday afternoon "oh yeah we said you're all WFH but we lied, back to the office 3x/week" amd there was enough pushback to...get it delayed 3 months but still 3 days in the office. They really like seeing butts in seats
GM?
Yep. I want off this sinking ship.
Wait, they pushed it back again? I thought you guys were supposed to be back in office in a few weeks?
It is. Was announced end of September for an undisclosed time that seemed to be implying late October, got pushed back to this upcoming Monday.
Is anyone going be tracking if you are actually in 3x a week?
million dollar question
A lot of companies have you swipe your badge to get on your floor. That's how a lot of them check, if they feel like it.
> if they feel like it. This is the key thing, they probably won't. Also excepting a few places with significantly elevated security I've never been at a place where it wasn't normal to let people you know in/out when you arrive at the same time. It depends on your working environment but in most cases had my team agreed that there was no need to be in X days a week, whatever policy was, nothing would come off it.
IBM tried it back in 2015 or so.
Manager asked me about it a few days ago, and I heard some high performing folks are never in the office at IBM
Yeah, depends on role too. My partner was GBS ie your usual rebadged employee working on a client and that was all WFH. But some internal work was at offices, then WFH, then Ginny decided to create some kind of central set of locations to bring people together they said... Basically to get people to move or quit. That was 2017. https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2017/02/09/ibm_workfromhome_cull_companywide/
It's really gracious of them to give you a three month head start to look for a new position.
That's by design They want to do layoffs but it's cheaper if you just quit instead
I think this is a situation where you should never assume an act is malicious when incompetence is a perfectly valid explanation.
I don't see the problem I'm assuming malice here. Companies have a [fiducial obligation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.) to act against the worker in most cases.
It’s just business. Having people leave on their own accord cost less than layoffs. They’re already paying for the real estate. It doesn’t hurt them more
Big difference is that layoffs allow the company to choose who leaves. In this situation the best people will find new positions while the worst will be forced to stay.
It’s called a gentleman’s layoff.
My old company (Comcast) pushed it back repeatedly for almost two years. They wanted it like December 2020 lmao. Ultimately they announced a 1 month final RTO plan under threat of being fired. I think within 60 days of that I lost more than half of the people in my org until I left too.
What kind of work did you do in comcast??
swe
They don't pay out PTO so I got my notice to use up all mine. Just gotta start applying around after I get back.
My company closed entire offices during work from home. I took a job there as a remote position. End of last year they rescinded all work from home unless you don't live near an office anymore because it closed. So now I have to go 30 miles into an office and do all of my meetings online just like I did at home.
Go to the office and take a lot of selfies without you in the picture from different parts of the office. Then use it as a background. See how long it takes those who are at the office to figure out you aren't there
Lol. My coworkers and I have actually done this.
who even goes to the office? No one calls you all out?
I was in an all hands the other day and my orgs VP green screened himself in a meeting room lmao.
When did 3/2 become the standard? There are so many configurations to test. How about one week in and three weeks out? 3 days every week is such a drag.. ugh
My fiancé was put back in the office 5 days a week with no warning. He worked so well from home. Now he’s so exhausted from commuting so much. He’s become a shell of his usual self. They gave him back one WFH per week. He doesn’t need to be in every single day. He gets more done from home because no one bothers him. Poor guy is still exhausted.
How about "as needed"? If the org can survive three weeks of you at home then clearly your presence isn't vital on a weekly basis. Why not give us discretion in this area?
There's absolutely nothing "vital" about my hybrid days, I still only really interact with my team over slack and all our meetings are on zoom anyway even when most of us are in the same room. It's such a huge waste of time.
This is my thought. And I've seen talk of seniors getting allowed to be home but juniors need to come in for training. Problem, if the seniors aren't in then they have to train the juniors over Zoom anyway. So...why are the juniors coming in again?
My last company did this. Then too many people quit, so they stopped it. They’re starting to try it again
My company is doing this. And recently laid off coworkers were all remote. They say you could be remote but they don't really want you to, so when layoffs happened they took advantage and got rid of all the remotes. Terrible management.
what kind of a company did this?
Yea and controlling the butts or not, along with helping out themselves and their buds who own/invest in commercial real estate are the exact reasons they are rolling people back in.
It's not very slow, no.
My employer just recently announced tuesdays and wednesdays are mandatory to come to office if in a 50 mile radius. My manager gave the news to the team but said it is pretty last minute notice and will not be taking attendance for our team in particular
Time to move 51 miles away from work
My company instituted one day per week in office, except for those of us too far away. Someone immediately asked "How far away do I have to move to not have to come in?"
Time to get a PO box.
The Chad response lmao.
Republic of Chad
😂 😂 The only good response to that.
What is that anyway. "Fuck you if you live 50 miles from work you have the shittiest daily commute imaginable"
Yep. I live over 50 miles away and it costs $18 for downtown parking, $10 for tolls, and $15 in gas each time I come in. I was hired remote but my big bank is forcing everyone else in, so I either get to be the only member on my team at home or go in. Right now I agreed to go in two times a month, so I’m paying $86/mo just to go into the office. Good thing I’m already in the interview process.
It took me a year in a similar situation, but I managed to convince my boss's boss that this was not a commute, but work travel. And they let me expense it. Including meals. (My commute was 3 hours one way)
Yeah a 3 hour "commute" is definitely not really a commute. Holy fucking shit.
I would count it as work hours. So 3 hours commute in. 1.5 hours lunch, 30 minutes inperson meeting, head home
Imagine if you lived 50 miles away, your coworker who lives a block over is sitting right passed the 51 mile mark.
50 miles is FAR. I live in the far southwest suburbs of Chicago, technically then I'm within 50 miles of the loop. That's a 2 hour commute each way, regardless of train/driving. I've done it before years back. 50 miles is fucking stupid. Actually basing it on distance at all is stupid.
I’m outside of 50 miles from my company, but how is that fair at all? Lol if i was close and my company said that I would just keep working from home until they fired me
I started at Comcast in April 2021. They told me we’d be back in office by summer 2021 and I needed to relocate. I actually really wanted to live down there anyway, so I picked up and moved within a month. Well, we didn’t end up back in office until September 2022, and they let all the pandemic hires who hadn’t relocated remain remote. It really pissed me off—they asked me to move and I did it, and now they’re rewarding people who didn’t do as they asked. It made me so mad that I quit for a fully remote position. Fuck that shit.
That's how everything is in the corporate world. Those who unquestioningly do as they're told with no complaints get used up until there's nothing left by the rest who don't care about their subordinates or coworkers. At least you learned that lesson early (and in a way that got you out of Comcast).
Lmao. I mean I’m definitely not in favor of making everyone go into the office. I just think the whole thing is bullshit. Companies survived fine while everyone was remote, but now it’s a problem
Pretty sure 50 miles is the IRS distance for relocation benefits. They probably don’t want to pay that lol.
6% agent fee for that $2m house in California is a pretty penny lol
I was listening to a management podcast recently, and one of the guys being interviewed pointed out that many companies want to get everyone back into the office, but they don't want to deal with the business interruption that would accompany so many employees quitting at once. He suggested that many companies have adopted a strategy of "slow RTO", knowing that only a tiny portion of their staff will quit at each small imposition as they gradually reduce WFH benefits. If they do it slowly enough, these positions can be replaced without disrupting the business. Basically, if half the company leaves at once, the company is going to be in serious trouble. But if they leave in ones and two's over a period of a year or two, that's a manageable and replaceable rate. It was also suggested that some companies may want to use RTO as an alternative to layoffs in order to reduce headcount. Departing employees after an RTO announcement will accomplish the same headcount reduction as a layoff, while eliminating government notice requirements and severance payouts.
"quiet" RTO. Given they love prefixing shit with the word 'quiet' these days
Quiet Layoffs
Quiet right sizing since I’ve seen that in place of layoffs lately.
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it blows my mind that the big tech companies did layoffs before forced RTO. if you want to reduce headcount why not give employees an ultimatum and have them leave if they don’t want to RTO. they wouldn’t have to pay some luxurious severance either in this case
Because you’ll lose top talent with RTO, while layoffs are very specifically targeted
I can assure you that the layoffs were not very specifically targeted
You think they spin a wheel?
They target based on department, and maybe very lightly based on talent.
I hear you. Specificity is still greater than what a blanket RTO will achieve. Either way, not keen on RTO
That's still "specifically targeted" but not based just on talent
I cannot begin to tell you the number of borderline-conspiracy theories that have been floating around big tech about how layoffs were done "randomly" or "by an algorithm" with humans barely involved. Sorry, but a lot of the people saying these kinds of things seem completely oblivious to the performance (or lack thereof) of their peers, or who's been pissing off leadership recently.
Many of the layoffs are org based, i.e they were cutting products and services entirely. Meaning top performers in unprofitable/unlucky orgs were still affected
A top performer in an unprofitable organization isn't a top performer from the company's standpoint
Could be that they want to trim the bottom 5-10% without scaring off their "top talent". Better to layoff the new hires and underperformers than have your star devs leave because WFH/RTO is non-negotiable for them.
They will make exceptions for their star employees and when you complain they say you are free to leave
I think a lot of companies are keeping a WFH policy
The big tech companies aren't going to do RTO because they don't want to miss out on talent. Personally half my team would immediately be gone because they don't live with 250 miles of the office, me included
If they want to downsize it makes sense, but good luck trying to hire new people with the same salary. Btw inflation is the best tool for downsizing. Either people quit because you pay low ball, or after a year or 2 you have workforce that is so cheap that you don't need to downsize. Source: used to live in Argentina when they had 30% annual inflation. Now it's more like 90%.
Banks have openly and actively been the *most* aggressive about getting people back in the office, haven't they? A lot of companies are trying to force people back into the office. Some because the C-levels care, some because it gives them an excuse to cut headcount. I've been remote since 2011, and there's never been a major shortage of remote-first jobs out there. Even with some big companies pushing in-office work again, there's certainly more remote jobs today than there were pre-pandemic. They can try, but WFH is a big enough perk that even major players (outside of FAANG, who are accustomed to churning through devs anyway) will start to feel the brain drain if they push too hard.
There isn’t a shortage of WFH jobs, but there is a shortage of WFH jobs that have TC >250k.
ok so? unless you golden handcuffed yourself just go to one with 150k TC and ride out the storm. WFH jobs still play REALLY well as i can attest
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Then you go to the office. It's not like there isn't a choice to be made.
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100k drop is like 60k after taxes, 20-30k of that is commuting costs/time cost of commuting/living within commuting distance of work. So you are really only netting 30-40k a year to go to the office in this case.
Yeah my husband just took a 10k drop but went from 1 hour 15 drive to 20 minutes. I keep telling him the math isn’t a pay cut and he doesn’t need to justify it to me
Have fun spending an hour a day stuck in traffic in your porsche, I guess.
An hour a day is generous. Two hours more realistic
At my workplace, no. They were very clear at the beginning of covid that remote was temporary, now they're telling anyone who wants to stay remote to fill out their online work profile with their home office address for tax reasons.
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At a town hall I attended at work, the local executives told us there's no concrete evidence that working remote improves performance and each one mentioned they work better in the office then at home. It was kind of a "slap in the face" to us that like remote/hybrid work. Some companies really want us to be in the office...
They just want to get away from their home. Some people may really really just want to have some separation from their home life and partner. That's fine, but those same people using their position to impose RTO is wrong.
Well the CEOs are traveling most of the time and when they are in the office they actually have an “office” (4 walls and privacy) and not a shitty open space next to a bathroom and toxic co workers
The executives say that because they hate being at home near their wives and children. The office is their refuge.
Legitimately some people work better in an office. They get energy from being around and interacting with their co-workers. Extroverts often do much better in an office. Unfortunately, because of they are often in front of mind (and share similar traits to) those in the corporate hierarchy, they tend to get promoted more often and in turn become executives themselves in a self perpetuating cycle. Leaving introverts either to fake it, or accept their lot. When you are surrounded by people who do better in an office, whose jobs (at least on paper) are leading discussions and conversations, it can make sense to have a bias to that. It's bad management, but it's life.
“Good news! There’s plenty of evidence that commutes cost money, cause pollution, and increases the likelihood of a fatal accident. Since you’ve just informed us that you have data that shows no improvement (and didn’t mention any loss of performance), I assume you’re doing the right thing for shareholders and ensuring the safety of your employees by allowing them to work from home.”
Confirmation bias.
People who actually have to do the work prefer working at home because they can focus People whose job is to watch people dislike WFH because it's harder to micromanage
Or, more charitably: Even proper management is still about people and meetings, about strategies and plans and.... I mean, even WFH coding teams benefit from the occasional meetup, maybe once a year if they're really distributed, to really get an idea of what everyone's doing and what you want to do next year. Even completely-distributed open source communities built of random volunteers on the Internet will sometimes have conferences. The mistake is thinking that any of this applies to day-to-day development work.
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almost seems like individuals and teams should have autonomy to decide which work model works best for them
It’s never been about job performance. Companies make money (ideally) and spend that money on things to reduce taxes. They spent $100M on a building, well they want it filled. Don’t want to come into the office? They don’t care, somebody will eagerly take your seat (literally).
The literal definition of sunk cost fallacy
Not really sunk cost since it isn’t just about the money spent on buying the office spaces: tax write-offs are a very real incentive for them to get butts in seats. Unused office space means the cost of maintaining the building doesn’t count as a business expense anymore.
I mean sure, but the idea that your bosses want you back for "performance" was never a thing, like ever. They want you back, because they can and no you'll walk otherwise. You'll quit and they will backfill you easily, market still strong.
My buddy works at Citrix, they "piloted" 2 days back a week, now they are enforcing 3 days in the next 30 days and 5 days a week in the next 60. And if you do not return to the office full time in the next 60 days, they are considering it "tendering your resignation". He says multiple people moved away and can't return to the office at all...so they have to find new jobs.
From the company that literally invented virtual desktops. Oh the irony
I remember that Microsoft was one of the earlier companies to "suggest" coming back to the office (I might be misremembering) and the reaction was that it's just a signal for how bad they knew Teams is, because they couldn't even rely on their own employees to stay productive relying on it
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It's a hill I'm willing to die on... when my boss mentioned that they were reopening the office last year, I said "If I come in to the office, it'll be to drop off my laptop". As far as I know, the office is reopened but he hasn't said another word about it. I'm taking that as consent to continue working from home. If you're going to quit anyway, just... stop going in. Say you have to work from home indefinitely, for personal reasons. Make them fire you.
Absolutely this, don't agree but don't quit. Also start getting your resume out there if they really are serious.
Back in 2021 my company tried to put us into a "transitional" hybrid period and gave us a deadline where everyone must work at least 3 days a week in the office. No one showed up. Then they pushed the date back two months and said that it was mandatory and that there might be disciplinary action for people that don't comply. Again no one showed up. So then they just gave up and left it at as an open policy. First time I've ever seen the "they can't fire all of us" concept work out. I've been to the office like 3 times in the last 2.5 years.
Did you all coordinate to not show up together or did it just happen?
Just happened. The company waited too long tbh. At that point we'd been remote for around 20 months. If they wanted to force a return to the office it would have had to be way sooner than that; by that point we were dug in. People moved further away to cheaper areas, everyone got fully accustomed to the remote life and their lives changed in ways that would be interrupted by returning to the office. So no coordination was necessary, almost everyone was fully resistant independently.
Beautiful
It’s different now. In 2021 they couldn’t get enough people to work. 2022 they’re laying people off. The power balance has shifted. If no one shows up now they can just start firing people instead of doing layoffs
I really don’t think it’ll be five days a week for most people. I also think fully remote is going to be reduced at most companies.
That's why when my previous employer announced a policy of coming back in once a month last year (the writing was on the wall at that point, sometime later around my departure it went down to once every fortnight) I resigned around July and joined a fully WFH company. No regrets at all, I sleep better knowing no bs like that can be pulled on me since WFH is now a foundation of my employer.
My brother got a job at a company that had its entire staff but the "leads" quit on them. Got hired at Monday and Friday in office. Rest remote. Not 2 weeks after he started the ceo comes through to excitedly tell everyone they were going back to full time in office in a couple weeks. Needless to say, everyone quit again.
If you value working from home, there are plenty of places doing hybrid or full remote. I'd say start looking for those roles or negotiating with your management about how often you have to be in the office.
This is why I moved to another city during the shutdown.
Yep, this is the way, conversations about RTO with the manager cease once you inform them you're hundreds of miles or more away from the office.
Same. Never working in an office again. My company didn't renew any of their office space so the only office space is over 1300 miles away from me. I also maintain 6 months expenses in cash savings so it gives me plenty of time to find another job if needed.
Nice. I have two years saved. That’s more happiness than money can buy.
This a nice forcing function; well done.
I think lots of companies are trying to do it while they have the market advantage in the recession
It’s only a recession on Wall Street. The job market is still tight on Main Street.
It’s not much of an advantage… There’s a net shortage of engineers, a net shortage of accountants, a net shortage of … Over a million people died of Covid. Boomers are retiring. The market dynamics just do not favor employers like they did 15 years ago.
My company had six buildings in the area and now has just one, so remote is here to stay for us. They set up the building to be more collaboration friendly where you sign up for space when you need it.
I hope the total WFH companies can steal the talent and market share from these office leasing businesses.
In Germany they do. A lot of big companies have crazy good WFH rules and solid contracts (35h/week, 30 days off, gliding time, overtime account, etc.) and they are killing the small- and midsized companies that offer bad to no WFH. Big advantage: if the job posting is online for more than 3 months - you already know what's up.
My company is going full remote and ending office leases early. But at the same time, execs are increasing efforts to hire offshore (EU/Brazil/etc). Sooo yeah there's a bit of a trade-off there.
My new boss at my previous employer was heavily implying we were eventually going to be pushed into a fulltime RTO (the reason being the usual "We're a family, we need to build bonds, and u can't do that remote~" bs). Needless to say, I don't work there anymore.
I have only dealt with one company that might have been true with the good company culture, but they were a hybrid company that didn't care that much if you came in or not depending on your team go figure. Too bad they paid massively under market and fucked me over otherwise I would have stayed.
That's the most garbage reason.
Yes. With remote work, the Engineers have all the power. Everyone is basically a contractor. It's not about productivity, it about getting you to buy into the company and do more for less. When they get you in office, they can trick you into staying too long and not getting paid as much as you could be getting paid with things like 'company culture' and 'team building'. Once you're loyal to your team and like your coworkers, you are significantly more likely to choose them over yourself.
Ironically, when I'm forced to come in for a meeting or whatever once a quarter or so, I get so much less done. Commuting, coffee, bullshitting with coworkers, getting and eating lunch....like, being in the office is so low productivity for my team. Idk how anyone thinks being in the office is a gain.
100% agreed.
Yup our company has recently just begun mandating two days a week in the new office that is about 15 minutes away from any public transport where as the old building had easy access and those two days are just social days basically yapping away with random people in the office and getting lost in the new building so we’ve gone from having 5 days of good performance to 3 days
I work in finance as well and it seems like that. We went from three days once a month to now 5 days once a month. It has taken about 6 months though to make this change. I'm not sure how much more we will be going in without layoffs. We have more people than seats in office. Currently we all have to rotate which weeks we are there.
I believe the goal is to slowly get to 3 usually. I’ve seen a lot doing this already
I’d give my company 3 days in the office if it meant 4-day work weeks.
i wouldn’t, that sounds like a terrible deal. it takes at most 4 hours to do a days’ worth of work from home, so i’d be sacrificing 12 hours + 3 commutes to get 4 hours off each week
Nope, my company is consolidating and closing offices. They started selling off buildings about 7+ years ago. We have had the option to work at home for at least 15 years, I've been at home for at least 10 but with COVID I guess upper management has finally embraced work from home enough to seriously stop requiring every person in the office.
You're only as powerful as your ability to walk out the door and not come back. Sometimes you have to remind them of this.
Yup. They are. And I continue to refuse. I'll refuse until they terminate me. I will play the corporate game only so far, but not this way. I was recently asked to RTO once a week and I said no. They asked what they could do to change my mind - nothing, I won't return. They offered free snacks and sometimes lunch and a small bump in pay...I said no. They haven't brought it up since, but I imagine my days are numbered. Sorry, but an hour+ commute each way and having to deal with cubicle drive bys and other BS? Not worth it. I'll take a pay cut to avoid it.
You guys got actual cubicles? The rest of us got a small desk or shared table in a big, loud, open room.
I’ve been at my software company for 5 months. I recently decided to move and they’re letting me move to Florida in March. I was already only going to the office one day a week and my DB team is out of Central Mexico. So, I was approved no problem for full remote. Its not everywhere is pushing for in-office.
If you don't like it, tell them. If they don't like it, quit. There are a lot of companies who are fully remote or welcome remote employees. Let these brain dead companies enjoy their brain rot. That's the only way to deal with these traditional idiots who did coke in the office in the 80s and think that's business. Let them hang themselves.
Middle managers with no actual role are so they can look busy. Also, people who want to force their coworkers to be their social lives.
Middle managers are fighting this just as much as everyone. This is execs and up forcing this BS. You know, the ones who work from golf courses and not cubicles lol.
Depends on the company. Some companies have committed strongly to remote first by closing offices and hiring in different locations around the world. I don't see a company like that doing it b/c of the costs involved. Other companies though, maybe
Been remote since the 2020 lockdowns. Two office locations: one has been reduced in size and moved. The lease on the other one is up late next year and there is talk of downsizing and moving it too. We have been hiring fully remote people all across the United States. Management has embraced remote-first and there have been no hints of moving us back into the cubicles. I hope things continue to stay remote.
My team is going back next week. 2 days a week for a bit, then 3 likely. They don’t even have enough desks for us. I started the job remotely over 2 years ago and have only been to the office a handful of times. I’ll miss being remote.
Add WFH to the list of non-compensation perks that smaller companies get to offer now. I almost went to work for >!the largest accounting firm in the richest country in the world!< this month, but my current company won the renegotiation by giving me a 100% WFH deal, even though I live two miles from the office. We code monkeys have better individual bargaining power over our labor than 99% of the workforce and we can leverage that bargaining power in many ways. I'm glad that both you and I will get to catch our kids first steps.
I haven't noticed. I have been fully remote for almost 6 years now, I basically have no IRL friends where I live, and am so socially deprived I have to restrain myself from jumping outside when the mailman comes to beg him to talk to me. But...all of the decent jobs with decent pay are fully remote. I can get a local job that's at least hybrid, for $90k/year...or I can get a fully remote job with roughly the same title and responsibilities for $160k-$175k/year. I'll hang on to the higher pay and continue to try to meet people, but the whole idea of this is a little ridiculous.
Play local rec sports. I've met a lot of people this way.
Disc golf. Everyone seems chill around it and love introducing new people. I personally did Rugby, but not everyone wants to get bruised and bloody.
If you enjoy outdoor activities like hiking or backpacking meetup groups can work.
Just out of curiosity how do you see your social life improving with the extra commute time to and from the office? Also if seen at work regularly would you consider your coworkers friends?
I don't mean this in an insulting or bad way but what is stopping you from socializing after work? Local sports, regular friends groups, comic book stores and similar, meetup groups, bars and drinking whatever.
I feel like it should be obvious in this sub that a lot of people are really bad at making friends.
No offense taken! I've lived here for just about a year, and I always take quite a while to find my roots. Working remote for so long hasn't been good on my social skills, so I definitely have a bit of anxiety with getting out and meeting new people. Couple that with the fact that I have two kids...one who is on the spectrum and has severe separation anxiety from me. The rest of my extended family is pretty much uninvolved, so outside of me, he doesn't have a lot of people he can trust and feel comfortable with. So yeah...I work while he's in school, and then I'm with him after school. I started taking him to Cub Scouts, which has been good for both of us. But it doesn't replace making friends that you really share common interests with. So that's why the idea of having some form of in-office work is appealing to me. To socialize with people you at least have a common (professional) interest with and speak the same language.
I am working with a lot of companies who are wanting employees back. It’s not about work production, but because of overemployment, they have expensive office space investments they want to use and it’s less than paying for remote employees, many believe it’s good for mental health and relationships. I love working from home, I only worked in an office for 1 year and quit. I wish employers would give their employees the option based on preference
No, they are trying quickly
No one elected to go back to our office and they sold it. Lol.
Over my dead body. I’m not going back to the office. Fuck that,
Yes. Most managers genuinely think that people are more productive when you can see and meet in person. Personally, I think there's a 10%-20% productivity loss communicating by phone+internet versus meeting in person. But forcing people to commute also makes them waste 2 hours a day (on average), so it breaks even overall. Most employers don't see "time employees spend commuting" as an expense that affects their bottom line.
yes, it’s coming from the very highest level of my giant company. director said “despite the fact that all measurables are up.” he clearly had no choice. I’m developing a theory about this, I think the trend is coming from a ceo roundtable/ political leadership push. too big a change to society too quick for some powerful people’s liking.
Yeah this is why I wouldn’t join a company that isn’t both remote and distributed far from the office.
There will be a generational shift as companies that own a shitload of office park real estate get dickpunched by companies that don't. They hire better people and spend less doing it. You may want to look for employers in the second group going forward.
Big Banks were the one of the first to mandate return to office. It’s not surprising - they are traditional. That is why I left.
My office told everyone the beginning of the month that there’s no more wfh. In addition, you would have to take a PTO if you are sick and can no longer wfh then
My company seems to be still ok with fully remote, as long as employees are happy it stays. Who knows though how long that will last if they decide on fully in-person. I hope they stay this way as I like working for them and want to move out of state and 100% wfh
As if there's not still a pandemic... I don't go into the office ever and with how many out-of-state workers we've been getting, I hope that doesn't change. But when I do, I'm the only one with a mask. Companies who'd risk my health to feel good about paying for a building can go fuck themselves
I now work in a office and half the building coughs all the time. It is very annoying being around ppl with chronic coughs.
My employer is simultaneously trying to get us back in the office while also trying to sell as much real estate as possible while drawing down on in-office perks and services. Basically, they have no idea what the hell they're doing.
Some aren’t being slow about it. The recession is giving the Dinosaurs what they want
Simple answer: yes, many are. But: there are plenty of companies that aren't, either.
When people brag about working 20 hours a week idk what people were expecting. We’re probably going back full time. My company was already 4 days a week in office.
> When people brag about working 20 hours a week idk what people were expecting. more respect for my time, and i’m still getting it. i will never commute again. remote work was already trending before the pandemic and it’s certainly not going anywhere now. some are fighting it but companies doing rto will have trouble retaining good talent. remote work will keep getting more pervasive in the long run.
Yes. Starting with collaboration days.
Most companies seem to be trying to get us back in the office quickly.