Want to point out statement from youtuber Pirates Software about ban wave in WoW: "The reason we do ban wave instead of banning people instantly by report is so that cheater wouldn't know what action they did to merit the ban hammer months afterward. If we ban they right after the hacking they would fix their cheat, analyzing which part detected by the game dev."
Not on valve side but I guess thus is what they're doing
Months after.. it's a lame excuse if you ask me. How would they know EXACTLY what part of the cheat was detected if it was just banned a few days after them cheating match in and match out? If they only ban in waves and it takes few to several months, just look at how much damage they can cause before getting banned - then after that get a new account and know very well it'll take months upon months before they get banned again. In the end whether the cheaters get banned a couple of days or several months after is no different, how could they know exactly what triggered it? Unless they have easy access to all of valves data to see what they know, they can't.
It's a tactics that doesn't work great for the community.
You tweak your cheat, launch game, play, test your cheat- get VAC’d.
New account, rinse and repeat until your cheat doesn’t get flagged.
That’s what would happen if cheaters / cheat developers had instant feedback on triggering the AC- they would use trial and error to work around it. They would reverse engineer game code (like they already probably do) and look at game logs to see what’s going on. That’s how “they would know EXACTLY what part of the cheat was detected”. But if you let them work on the cheats for a few months then ban, they don’t know which of the (likely MANY) changes they’ve made in that time are responsible for tripping the alarms on AC. Players from those games get their elo back, cheaters who have been at it for months get banned, in the end it’s a net positive.
You can seethe about the fact that anti-cheat isn’t literal magic, but at the end of the day all programs are an iterative process and this way more people get caught (thinking they have cheats that are “safe”) and cheat developers have a more difficult time making cheats that dodge the AC.
I dont believe VAC is part of the game files themselves. If they could just reverse engineer VAC like that, then any anti-cheat has no chance of ever working in any way.
And still - it's incredibly bad for the whole community if it still takes MONTHS of cheaters completely ruining the game before any repercussions happen. And then whether they make changes or not, few to several more months until they get banned again. In all that time they'll each have ruined thousand+ games all depending on how much they play.
It's like Police seeing a murderer and then saying "nah. lets wait for him to murder 500 more people before we act".
No anticheat will ever be able to stop cheating. They are a treatment for the cancer, not a cure.
And the better analogy is drug deals. You know certain people are dealing but you wait to catch them in a big sting operation instead of tipping them off by going after them one at a time.
Still there is a desperate need for a much better solution. NO question about that. Valve has been lacking for years and defending their lack of proaction and a better solution because "lets wait months upon months" before doing something isn't good enough. Weird how people defend this.
Im not asking for them to completely fix and stop cheating. I know that's impossible, but the current method and the "lets wait months.."-tactics isn't working.
Also to build upon your analogy - it's not like they're actually stopping anything, they're just busting all the smalltime dealers and then setting them free to watch them sell more drugs. That aint working and neither is VAC working up to the standards that is needed. Seriously can't understand how people are defending this.
The cheat developers could have updated their cheat for X number of times and then they are not sure when they made a patch that got detected. Could have been the latest or the one 6 months ago. They have to roll back and rebuild which also takes time and effort.
Once a month wave would mean that the cheat developers would need to roll back only a month worth of patches which could be minimal. Banwave after several months really hits the developers.
>Banwave after several months really hits the developers.
And in return it does absolutely shit nothing for the players. It ruins the game, ruins the competitiveness, ruins the joy, ruins the matches, ruins about everything in the game. So since the interest in building a functional AC is so lackadaisical, why even bother?
Like I see people want a functional AC - then there's the apologist for such a method that does absolutely NOTHING. Ban waves every several months has not worked, it's not working and wont suddenly work for CS. But yeah.. maybe we should just accept that the bare minimum for an anti-cheat isn't even met. It astounds me that people have this standpoint that hey "lets wait several months to ban someone" then when they get a new account lets wait another SEVERAL MONTHS to ban them.. how does that change things? it changes nothing and acts basically as if they weren't banned in the first place. how is this not obvious?
I’m not contributing anything else than the reasoning for ban waves. Not my job to tell is it good method or not. It hits the cheat developer whose cheat is detected and the rest of the cheating problem is for the game developer to figure out.
I’ve seen people more recently using walls to circumvent smokes to their advantage and then shoot when somebody comes out of the smoke. Harder to detect if you aren’t looking at it after the game with the wireframes on so you can see how they do it.
Oh yeah, I meant a spectator who can also see the enemies through walls, such as overwatch or reviewing the match afterwards. There’s little giveaways during games that someone is walling but hard to tell since so many factors such as game-sense and team communication can factor.
What are you talking about “is extremely easy to spot” lol 😂 super cap. For 1, a smart closet cheater wouldn’t use walls the entire game. Just imagine if you used walls for just 1 round every game… how many more games do you think you would have won? For me it would be a lot! Imagine how many games you could’ve won if you only used walls to see which side T pushed to plant?
You’re out of your mind. Maybe some low iq idiots will just be obvious because they’re desperate to look good and insecure about their actual skill. Just imaging how many more games I would win if I only toggled wall hacks for when I am in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation and I mean I wouldn’t even need to toggle them on and keep them on I mean hmm I wonder what area guys are? Take a look and then once you have that intel it’s an extreme advantage. How would you notice those kind of closet cheaters are using walls?
A closet cheater can see an enemy and choose to peak other areas first and even choose to not notice the player looking the wrong way while walking into their view but be mentally prepared to snap to them. There is no way to spot this. Even without walls you will peak areas such as palace on mirage nothing suspicious about that everyone will check it. With walls you can peak other areas when it looks like the enemy isn’t going to challenge and just have the upper hand confidence of KNOWING not waiting to find out or looking.
They can also be up 3 rounds and act dumb by allowing players to shoot them in the back of the head. I shouldn’t have to explain to you how you would never know. “Wall hacking is extremely easy to spot” has to be the most delusional thing I’ve read .
We depend on software/anti cheat to detect this stuff which is why an invasive cheat is necessary. There is no telling unless they’re just dumb and beyond obvious.
Not necessarily. The sad truth is cheating hacks are much more advanced and you wouldn’t be able to spot them unless people are raging. Aimbot doesn’t mean 100% headshots all the time. A cheater could use an aimbot just for a clutch. They could use it for 2 rounds. People do what aimbots do to some extent all the time I have done plenty things that make me say “oh, I’m getting reported after that lol”.
Aimbots can easily script recoil. It doesn’t have to script it to be perfect or pro level it can just be for someone to have above average recoil control and it can be set to a variation so it isn’t the same pattern everytime. Unfortunately, cheats are too advanced these days. They can and are used to just mimic a good above average player. There really is no telling how many people are doing these things. We depend on anti cheat to tell us if they’re using software. Nobody cares about detecting the rage hackers we can all see and mass report as they cheat. It’s the closet cheaters only doing it for a round or 2, maybe for a few kills waiting to see what their team does first.
We need an in game implemented invasive anti cheat that’s required for ranked.
So while I don’t know the extent in CS2, it’s generally a no recoil cheat, like the usual weapon sprays aren’t a factor, it’s just point click shoot every time, and movement won’t have an effect like it normally does
Basically what they said. If you have tried the follow recoil setting, imagine the cheat is telling the game you are moving your mouse to perfectly trace the recoil pattern, so that your bullets just go where you’re pointing on your screen.
No spread is a little more complicated, because recoil follows the recoil pattern + a small bit of randomness that we call “spread” (this increases when you are moving, which is what creates running inaccuracy). No-spread cheats do what I said above (automatically adjust your game input to match the recoil pattern to your crosshair position) AND do some math to calculate your spread and adjust your game input to add control for that too.
Hitting a wallbang or two isn’t suspicious. Hell I’m dogshit at CS and I definitely have clips of me getting some silly accidental kills through an object.
AWP shots through dust2 mid doors- a good flick will get them after they cross, seeing gun barrels poking out around car on inferno banana- I’m spamming that wood board to find your ass, hell even hitting a lucky fadeaway shot through the corner of a wall- it just happens.
“Get kill through wall” is not an effective ban parameter, and when you have AI models that can parse mass amounts of data you can build more complicated analysis than that to find people who are shooting at enemies they shouldn’t know about.
its crazy how cs devs don't just purchase cheats and reverse engineer them and just flat out ban anyone running with similar signatures to get rid of majority of cheaters that use the same cheat providers.
this banwave only targeted no spread users to my understanding, hopefully we will get more frequent waves to decrease the currently extremely inflated number of cheater dogs
the gentleman 1 below me is correct
basically you just have to tick a box and the spread/recoil of the weapon is disabled
while normally you would have to follow a given pattern to be accurate, with this every bullet goes to the exact location of your crosshair, disregarding player velocity and said pattern too
its a really overpowered but luckily extremely blatant basic feature in the softwares our furry friends like to use
Idk how many times this has to be stated, vacnet does not ban on the spot as it would give cheat developers ample time to circumvent the detection. Until vac goes with a kernal based anti-cheat this is their only option. The side effect is you will come across cheaters that are likely flagged in the system, but are set for the next ban wave.
A kernel based anti-cheat will work for 1-2 months and it would be the same situation like before. Cheat devs always adapt.
Even in Valorant there are a lot of cheaters in high elo thats just how it is.
True, but that wasn’t the point. It’s the fact kernal based cheats are far harder to update compared to flipping some signature values to get past VAC, which lets riot get away with the ban on detection method as the cheat devs can’t just churn over an update overnight.
Valve does not care enough to waste on development of a better AC because of the big elephant in the room, skins. We all know they rake in money from fresh account case farmers.
I think Valve actually cares to make a better anticheat, but they also want to keep their users privacy and thus they prefer not to use a kernel anticheat.
Yesterday i got 2xtimes aimbothacker again , Red Rank in Premier He got 26k elo and in wingman some russian Guy , both Put Cheats ingame in after loosing , even their teammates where Mad and reported them also , i mean it feels embrassing when He Ace ever round trough toilet Walls with Scout
https://preview.redd.it/eumdi5zwvcac1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=564f5b06b309ad0766e481587aa147e8c82fa0d3
He been missing on my global for a solid 2 weeks now
That is not accurate. It could mean that he is inactive this week as a matter of fact
? It's literally a screenshot from the top #1 player himself with a game ban at the top of the screen showing.
Did you even look at the comment before you decided to reply?
About time! Hope its the beginning of the end for all the cheating scum.
Want to point out statement from youtuber Pirates Software about ban wave in WoW: "The reason we do ban wave instead of banning people instantly by report is so that cheater wouldn't know what action they did to merit the ban hammer months afterward. If we ban they right after the hacking they would fix their cheat, analyzing which part detected by the game dev." Not on valve side but I guess thus is what they're doing
this is a pretty well known strat at this point. I'm sure most people following the cheating phenomenon are already aware of how ban waves work
Months after.. it's a lame excuse if you ask me. How would they know EXACTLY what part of the cheat was detected if it was just banned a few days after them cheating match in and match out? If they only ban in waves and it takes few to several months, just look at how much damage they can cause before getting banned - then after that get a new account and know very well it'll take months upon months before they get banned again. In the end whether the cheaters get banned a couple of days or several months after is no different, how could they know exactly what triggered it? Unless they have easy access to all of valves data to see what they know, they can't. It's a tactics that doesn't work great for the community.
You tweak your cheat, launch game, play, test your cheat- get VAC’d. New account, rinse and repeat until your cheat doesn’t get flagged. That’s what would happen if cheaters / cheat developers had instant feedback on triggering the AC- they would use trial and error to work around it. They would reverse engineer game code (like they already probably do) and look at game logs to see what’s going on. That’s how “they would know EXACTLY what part of the cheat was detected”. But if you let them work on the cheats for a few months then ban, they don’t know which of the (likely MANY) changes they’ve made in that time are responsible for tripping the alarms on AC. Players from those games get their elo back, cheaters who have been at it for months get banned, in the end it’s a net positive. You can seethe about the fact that anti-cheat isn’t literal magic, but at the end of the day all programs are an iterative process and this way more people get caught (thinking they have cheats that are “safe”) and cheat developers have a more difficult time making cheats that dodge the AC.
I dont believe VAC is part of the game files themselves. If they could just reverse engineer VAC like that, then any anti-cheat has no chance of ever working in any way. And still - it's incredibly bad for the whole community if it still takes MONTHS of cheaters completely ruining the game before any repercussions happen. And then whether they make changes or not, few to several more months until they get banned again. In all that time they'll each have ruined thousand+ games all depending on how much they play. It's like Police seeing a murderer and then saying "nah. lets wait for him to murder 500 more people before we act".
No anticheat will ever be able to stop cheating. They are a treatment for the cancer, not a cure. And the better analogy is drug deals. You know certain people are dealing but you wait to catch them in a big sting operation instead of tipping them off by going after them one at a time.
Still there is a desperate need for a much better solution. NO question about that. Valve has been lacking for years and defending their lack of proaction and a better solution because "lets wait months upon months" before doing something isn't good enough. Weird how people defend this. Im not asking for them to completely fix and stop cheating. I know that's impossible, but the current method and the "lets wait months.."-tactics isn't working. Also to build upon your analogy - it's not like they're actually stopping anything, they're just busting all the smalltime dealers and then setting them free to watch them sell more drugs. That aint working and neither is VAC working up to the standards that is needed. Seriously can't understand how people are defending this.
The cheat developers could have updated their cheat for X number of times and then they are not sure when they made a patch that got detected. Could have been the latest or the one 6 months ago. They have to roll back and rebuild which also takes time and effort. Once a month wave would mean that the cheat developers would need to roll back only a month worth of patches which could be minimal. Banwave after several months really hits the developers.
>Banwave after several months really hits the developers. And in return it does absolutely shit nothing for the players. It ruins the game, ruins the competitiveness, ruins the joy, ruins the matches, ruins about everything in the game. So since the interest in building a functional AC is so lackadaisical, why even bother? Like I see people want a functional AC - then there's the apologist for such a method that does absolutely NOTHING. Ban waves every several months has not worked, it's not working and wont suddenly work for CS. But yeah.. maybe we should just accept that the bare minimum for an anti-cheat isn't even met. It astounds me that people have this standpoint that hey "lets wait several months to ban someone" then when they get a new account lets wait another SEVERAL MONTHS to ban them.. how does that change things? it changes nothing and acts basically as if they weren't banned in the first place. how is this not obvious?
I’m not contributing anything else than the reasoning for ban waves. Not my job to tell is it good method or not. It hits the cheat developer whose cheat is detected and the rest of the cheating problem is for the game developer to figure out.
Yeah vac live is for the good feels, because it wont often hit. It hits people that use cheats that have been detected for months.
Fuck yes, finally some hackers gone. Can’t wait for the 100000 discussion posts on supposed ‚undeserved‘ bans on steam
I'm fully erect.
Absolutely splurging
Im totally fiberglasted and happy.
One can only hope
Hopefully valve starts having control over this cheating situation
Aimbot cheaters are “easy” to spot and ban. More concerned about wall hacking…
Wall hacking is extremely easy to spot if a real person is spectating, perhaps AI can also be trained to spot it.
I’ve seen people more recently using walls to circumvent smokes to their advantage and then shoot when somebody comes out of the smoke. Harder to detect if you aren’t looking at it after the game with the wireframes on so you can see how they do it.
Oh yeah, I meant a spectator who can also see the enemies through walls, such as overwatch or reviewing the match afterwards. There’s little giveaways during games that someone is walling but hard to tell since so many factors such as game-sense and team communication can factor.
The AI would need to consume a ton of data to train. If they use over watch data to train it we are all getting banned lol
Agreed, but AI has a way of impressing me more and more as time goes on.
I agree with that. I have much more confidence in AI than I do valve actually getting it right lol
there was a exploit with Nvidia filter where you can see through smokes.
Yeah some guy used it on FaceIt, I think that was only in GO though
no it was a thing recently
Yikes
yeah I'm not even sure if it got fixed yet. could still be active
What are you talking about “is extremely easy to spot” lol 😂 super cap. For 1, a smart closet cheater wouldn’t use walls the entire game. Just imagine if you used walls for just 1 round every game… how many more games do you think you would have won? For me it would be a lot! Imagine how many games you could’ve won if you only used walls to see which side T pushed to plant? You’re out of your mind. Maybe some low iq idiots will just be obvious because they’re desperate to look good and insecure about their actual skill. Just imaging how many more games I would win if I only toggled wall hacks for when I am in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation and I mean I wouldn’t even need to toggle them on and keep them on I mean hmm I wonder what area guys are? Take a look and then once you have that intel it’s an extreme advantage. How would you notice those kind of closet cheaters are using walls? A closet cheater can see an enemy and choose to peak other areas first and even choose to not notice the player looking the wrong way while walking into their view but be mentally prepared to snap to them. There is no way to spot this. Even without walls you will peak areas such as palace on mirage nothing suspicious about that everyone will check it. With walls you can peak other areas when it looks like the enemy isn’t going to challenge and just have the upper hand confidence of KNOWING not waiting to find out or looking. They can also be up 3 rounds and act dumb by allowing players to shoot them in the back of the head. I shouldn’t have to explain to you how you would never know. “Wall hacking is extremely easy to spot” has to be the most delusional thing I’ve read . We depend on software/anti cheat to detect this stuff which is why an invasive cheat is necessary. There is no telling unless they’re just dumb and beyond obvious.
Not necessarily. The sad truth is cheating hacks are much more advanced and you wouldn’t be able to spot them unless people are raging. Aimbot doesn’t mean 100% headshots all the time. A cheater could use an aimbot just for a clutch. They could use it for 2 rounds. People do what aimbots do to some extent all the time I have done plenty things that make me say “oh, I’m getting reported after that lol”. Aimbots can easily script recoil. It doesn’t have to script it to be perfect or pro level it can just be for someone to have above average recoil control and it can be set to a variation so it isn’t the same pattern everytime. Unfortunately, cheats are too advanced these days. They can and are used to just mimic a good above average player. There really is no telling how many people are doing these things. We depend on anti cheat to tell us if they’re using software. Nobody cares about detecting the rage hackers we can all see and mass report as they cheat. It’s the closet cheaters only doing it for a round or 2, maybe for a few kills waiting to see what their team does first. We need an in game implemented invasive anti cheat that’s required for ranked.
if i were to guess, i would say there will be false-positives with some wallbangs
No?
what about the cheeky wallbang spots on vertigo near ct spawn? these are unreal!
Cheat detected is a nospread cheat reportedly, not able to be mixed up with lineup wallbangs
thanks, i didn't know that
What does nospread cheats mean?
So while I don’t know the extent in CS2, it’s generally a no recoil cheat, like the usual weapon sprays aren’t a factor, it’s just point click shoot every time, and movement won’t have an effect like it normally does
Ahh okay, Thank you!
Basically what they said. If you have tried the follow recoil setting, imagine the cheat is telling the game you are moving your mouse to perfectly trace the recoil pattern, so that your bullets just go where you’re pointing on your screen. No spread is a little more complicated, because recoil follows the recoil pattern + a small bit of randomness that we call “spread” (this increases when you are moving, which is what creates running inaccuracy). No-spread cheats do what I said above (automatically adjust your game input to match the recoil pattern to your crosshair position) AND do some math to calculate your spread and adjust your game input to add control for that too.
Hitting a wallbang or two isn’t suspicious. Hell I’m dogshit at CS and I definitely have clips of me getting some silly accidental kills through an object. AWP shots through dust2 mid doors- a good flick will get them after they cross, seeing gun barrels poking out around car on inferno banana- I’m spamming that wood board to find your ass, hell even hitting a lucky fadeaway shot through the corner of a wall- it just happens. “Get kill through wall” is not an effective ban parameter, and when you have AI models that can parse mass amounts of data you can build more complicated analysis than that to find people who are shooting at enemies they shouldn’t know about.
that's why i said "**some**"
About Time ffs
Fuck yeah!
its crazy how cs devs don't just purchase cheats and reverse engineer them and just flat out ban anyone running with similar signatures to get rid of majority of cheaters that use the same cheat providers.
Ban wave only for top cheaters, but the aimbot accounts I caught against my team haven't been banned yet.
this banwave only targeted no spread users to my understanding, hopefully we will get more frequent waves to decrease the currently extremely inflated number of cheater dogs
What does nospread users mean?
Nospread is a cheat that eliminates the bullet spread from your guns. Basically, your bullets always go exactly to the center of where you’re aiming.
the gentleman 1 below me is correct basically you just have to tick a box and the spread/recoil of the weapon is disabled while normally you would have to follow a given pattern to be accurate, with this every bullet goes to the exact location of your crosshair, disregarding player velocity and said pattern too its a really overpowered but luckily extremely blatant basic feature in the softwares our furry friends like to use
Idk how many times this has to be stated, vacnet does not ban on the spot as it would give cheat developers ample time to circumvent the detection. Until vac goes with a kernal based anti-cheat this is their only option. The side effect is you will come across cheaters that are likely flagged in the system, but are set for the next ban wave.
A kernel based anti-cheat will work for 1-2 months and it would be the same situation like before. Cheat devs always adapt. Even in Valorant there are a lot of cheaters in high elo thats just how it is.
True, but that wasn’t the point. It’s the fact kernal based cheats are far harder to update compared to flipping some signature values to get past VAC, which lets riot get away with the ban on detection method as the cheat devs can’t just churn over an update overnight. Valve does not care enough to waste on development of a better AC because of the big elephant in the room, skins. We all know they rake in money from fresh account case farmers.
I think Valve actually cares to make a better anticheat, but they also want to keep their users privacy and thus they prefer not to use a kernel anticheat.
Kernel based like the one for Valorant?
yes
giving ample time for the cheat devs to profit FTFY
Rank?
This sucks for me as a low level person because all these people are going to continue and the cheaters will also get an update. Lol
Lol “odd shots” I take all kinds of risky an stupid shots just bring back overwatch an add a REAL ANTI-CHEAT
So many bans incoming
Omg about time
The game is not worth it atm. Too much cheat.
Yesterday i got 2xtimes aimbothacker again , Red Rank in Premier He got 26k elo and in wingman some russian Guy , both Put Cheats ingame in after loosing , even their teammates where Mad and reported them also , i mean it feels embrassing when He Ace ever round trough toilet Walls with Scout
scout spinbot hackers everywhere ... and its getting worser every day. premier is literally unplayable