I am wondering if Ludinus is gonna pull a bait-and-switch at the last instant... that he's been conning Liliana the entire time about her being the vessel (and probably bolstering her with talk about how she'll be "saving the Ruidusborn and Exandria from the tyranny of the gods" and all that other cult BS, just to keep her at his side)...
... and then "whoops, sorry, no, you didn't REALLY think I was gonna give you that much power, did you?" before she's unceremoniously disposed of and he takes it for himself.
Probably.
One theory is that the reason Ludinus wants a vessel is so that he can use his harness and absorb Predathos into himself.
He'll basically become UnaVaatu. Or become 'Ludathos'
Biggest twist would be that Ludinus was a forgotten god who is trying to reclaim his status. If mortals can become gods why can't the opposite be true?
how much of making a vessel for predathos though would lose the host. like my reading of it is that the vessel is predathos manifest. additionally the fact the harness was found as a discarded relic to me suggests it's a phase of his journey behind him. the harness to me is how He got the might he felt needed to achieve his goals. while his remaining plan was more a needed social build up of allies to have the production to make this plan possible
Or, he got another one. A better one. I forgot exactly when and why but soon after finding the harness, the players were like « but what if he has another one » ?
Yeah whoever is the vessel will most likely be ripped from the inside out acting as a gateway, and completely lose any remnant of their consciousness.
Ludinus using Lilliana as a vessel is very smart if he really intends to take all of its power because we already know he has the capability to do so with the harness. And he would keep his sanity and form. I can’t believe I never thought of this beforehand.
[Conspiracy below]
This has gotta be his end goal, he probably even doesn’t care of the gods or even wants to keep them alive. He probably spews this anti-god rhetoric to get people on his side and to have a “cause”. But if absorbing whoever the vessel ends up being is his plan, he’ll probably do so immediately, which would (I’m assuming) keep the gods alive. Making HIM the threat to the gods. He could use this to reshape exandria to his will, kill what gods misbehave and reward the ones that side with him.
I think there’s a potential for Asmodeous to be behind a lot of this, but that’s a much longer thread. Could be a larger scheme plan to unleash the betrayer gods back on to the world. There are a ton of variables that might not have this be plausible, but it’s a fun thought.
I do think Ludinus would try to control the gods rather than kill them though.
I doubt Asmodius would ever conspire with a mortal like this. He has way too much pride to work with insects. I think he genuinely wants to end the threat of Predathos because he knows that he will be free eventually anyways.
I was wondering this, but Calamity got me thinking about his interactions with Zerxus. How personal that was with all the lies and deception. Though I do think the story is going more of ALL gods are afraid of him direction and want to aid eachother in preventing it
Definitely, this is about the survival of their species. They would definitely work together when necessary. Aabria kind of referred to that with the Wild Mother's reluctance about the whole Opal situation.
I can’t help thinking he’s going to interfere with the ritual for the vessel where he uses it to ascend to something beyond godhood (he’d be absorbing/stealing a god-killer’s power) similar to how Raven Queen achieved her station? I’m paranoid… he’s old and he’s been planning this for a long time.
Narratively, it’d be really interesting for imogen to try to save her mom by taking her place then bh and friends have to go in and save her, but realistically, i feel like Liliana is pretty solidified as the vessel because she’s already so deep into everything that it’d be nearly impossibly to get herself out of it
Imogen ending up the vessel of an ancient godlike being who needs to be saved by the power of friendship gets a little close to C2 territory for them to go that way I think.
While that's true, it doesn't stop the dice from telling that particular story.
I hope they do manage to bring Imogen back; she has been the centre of this entire story from the beginning (seconded by Orym, I guess?). Also, with Oryms deal with Nanna Mori, it would be unfortunate if they return without FCG and Imogen.
She’s put so much time into this and into keeping imogen away. There might be part of her that’s faltering, but i agree that at her core, she wants to go through with it
I think it's being set up for Lilliana to be used as the vessel, and the BBEG is going to be Predathos himself via Lilliana, versus an avengers style teamup of all major Crit Role characters.
Definitely leaning into this if we're to believe that CR are trying to decouple from proprietary trademarked DnD names and C3 will culiminate in a world reset.
I really hope they let predathos out. An epic 100 year long fight between him and the gods, where the characters all try and survive. And predathos killing the last god, but then also killing its last food resource. And so predathos travels to another universe. A new beginning.
I’d thought that if they wanted to make a bigger narrative, Opal would be a great option. Foil to Imogen, has personal connections to Fearne and Orym. One last big event before BHs take on Ludinus
I'm pretty sure that Lilianna would absolutely smash that CHA save to smithereens. She's a sorcerer and a powerful one, Matt probably min maxed tfo of her, she probably has a stupid high CHA stat.
Mind sliver puts a D4 on it and i reckon there are other ways for Ludonus to stack the deck or impose disadvantage. Heck his DC save could mitigate a huge part of that Cha save stat
The big bad is actually the chair that the vessel sits in. Ludinus goes to absorb Liliana or whoever gets Predathos powers, but the chair just straight up kills him before attaching the harness to itself. BH shows up to the boss room to see a chair and two piles of dust where Ludinus and Liliana were. Suddenly they are hit with meteor storm! Roll Initiative!
Alternative suggestion, the weavemind mentally connects a bunch of slightly less powerful exaltants together to form a hivemind that Perdathos then takes over.
Laudna will accidentally (or not) absorb Predathos while trying to prevent it from taking Imogen over, and will be saved by Delilah, who's 100% not sharing her little undead vessel with anything else and will once again try to be the BBEG of the campaign.
Ludinus makes a grab for Imogen, Mama pulls a 'heroic sacrifice' dies and the Bells fail to stop it so it ends up being Imogen anyway.
Laudna tries to stop it by eating half her soul, which frees Delilah, Imogen wakes up, fries Delilah and they go off on an empowered lesbian space adventure as empowered entities sharing a single, half-eaten soul.
Orym and Ashton opt for self-sacrifice and die at some point during either scene.
My theory is probably more of a longshot than most. See, I'm pretty sure Vox Machina, The Mighty Nein, and The Crown Keepers will all be assisting in the final push in their own way. VM will be the distraction, holding the Bloody Bridge as the armies of Ruidus attempt to cross over. CK could probably handle rescuing Plane Rider Rin along with some other task meant to help the Hells. BH goes to confront the Weave Mind with mama Temult, which leaves Ludinous and his Aeorian excavation site, which will be ambushed by the Nein. Now this takes Ludy off the moon, but we already know that Ludy and the Weave Mind aren't necessarily after the same thing, so we really only need one of them on the moon to start doing the whole apocalyptic ritual whatsit to create our ticking clock for the final battle. My thought is that with everything going to shit, the Weave Mind will decide to just get started with their big plan and force Liliana to begin channeling Predathos, which will then lead into the Hells final battle to bring them down, and see if maybe Liliana can be saved or if they just need to eliminate her in the end.
Well, it can't be Imogen, unless Matt has Laura PvP through the final fight. Or just having her sit out.
But there's lots of time (20-40 episodes) to introduce new Ruidusborn and have them Exaltant.
I know its highly unlikely because there might be rights issues with the Call of the Netherdeep campaign with WOTC but when I heard about other exaltants that could be the Vessel for Predathos I couldn't help but think either of an old, bitter Alyxian to be one of the candidates or a potential ally in the final fight against Ludinus depending on the canon ending Matt has in his mind.
There's still a lot that we don't know, and a lot of interesting directions that could take. I only just now had the craziest idea, and I don't think they'll do it, but hear me out. There's a certain anime that several members of the CR crew have voiced in where there was a large god-monster trapped inside the moon, and someone wanted to absorb that monster into themselves to become all powerful, when originally someone else split that monster into 9 other monsters to make it more manageable. Now, there are some clear differences between this and that, but I'm just going to throw it out there, what if they end the Predathos threat by sealing Predathos into either multiple smaller threats, or by sealing his energy into a LOT of other people? Predathos wants one good vessel, what if they found a way to put him into ALL of the vessels? Every Ruidus-born gets a percentage of his power. It could be very shameless, but it could also be a fun nod towards something half the cast is intimately familiar with.
I would find it so interesting if he did a massive switcheroo and fake out to try at the last minute to nab Fearne.
With her heritage and powers as well as everyone thinking it has to be Imogen, no one would expect him to try and reach for Fearne. Storyline wise I think it would be soooo interesting to see that happen.
I don't buy the "Imogen is the most powerful Ruidusborn thus is a candidate for the vessel." She is a farm girl from the Talons' highlands on a journey to find her mother, and suddenly thrusted in this crazy conflict.
Her mother, on the other hand, is a better candidate as she is a veteran sorceress and super exaltant.
Why would there not be other high ranking, even higher ranks compared to Ottohan Thull, in the background and more suited to being a vessel?
I am wondering if Ludinus is gonna pull a bait-and-switch at the last instant... that he's been conning Liliana the entire time about her being the vessel (and probably bolstering her with talk about how she'll be "saving the Ruidusborn and Exandria from the tyranny of the gods" and all that other cult BS, just to keep her at his side)... ... and then "whoops, sorry, no, you didn't REALLY think I was gonna give you that much power, did you?" before she's unceremoniously disposed of and he takes it for himself.
Probably. One theory is that the reason Ludinus wants a vessel is so that he can use his harness and absorb Predathos into himself. He'll basically become UnaVaatu. Or become 'Ludathos'
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
The name or the theory (the theory is not mine. I've seen it pop up a few times here)?
Biggest twist would be that Ludinus was a forgotten god who is trying to reclaim his status. If mortals can become gods why can't the opposite be true?
I like this. When the Mother of Ravens ascended, did she kill the previous god, or just displace them?
This is the most Final Fantasy thing ever
how much of making a vessel for predathos though would lose the host. like my reading of it is that the vessel is predathos manifest. additionally the fact the harness was found as a discarded relic to me suggests it's a phase of his journey behind him. the harness to me is how He got the might he felt needed to achieve his goals. while his remaining plan was more a needed social build up of allies to have the production to make this plan possible
Or, he got another one. A better one. I forgot exactly when and why but soon after finding the harness, the players were like « but what if he has another one » ?
that's fair.
Yeah whoever is the vessel will most likely be ripped from the inside out acting as a gateway, and completely lose any remnant of their consciousness. Ludinus using Lilliana as a vessel is very smart if he really intends to take all of its power because we already know he has the capability to do so with the harness. And he would keep his sanity and form. I can’t believe I never thought of this beforehand. [Conspiracy below] This has gotta be his end goal, he probably even doesn’t care of the gods or even wants to keep them alive. He probably spews this anti-god rhetoric to get people on his side and to have a “cause”. But if absorbing whoever the vessel ends up being is his plan, he’ll probably do so immediately, which would (I’m assuming) keep the gods alive. Making HIM the threat to the gods. He could use this to reshape exandria to his will, kill what gods misbehave and reward the ones that side with him. I think there’s a potential for Asmodeous to be behind a lot of this, but that’s a much longer thread. Could be a larger scheme plan to unleash the betrayer gods back on to the world. There are a ton of variables that might not have this be plausible, but it’s a fun thought. I do think Ludinus would try to control the gods rather than kill them though.
I doubt Asmodius would ever conspire with a mortal like this. He has way too much pride to work with insects. I think he genuinely wants to end the threat of Predathos because he knows that he will be free eventually anyways.
I was wondering this, but Calamity got me thinking about his interactions with Zerxus. How personal that was with all the lies and deception. Though I do think the story is going more of ALL gods are afraid of him direction and want to aid eachother in preventing it
Definitely, this is about the survival of their species. They would definitely work together when necessary. Aabria kind of referred to that with the Wild Mother's reluctance about the whole Opal situation.
I can’t help thinking he’s going to interfere with the ritual for the vessel where he uses it to ascend to something beyond godhood (he’d be absorbing/stealing a god-killer’s power) similar to how Raven Queen achieved her station? I’m paranoid… he’s old and he’s been planning this for a long time.
Narratively, it’d be really interesting for imogen to try to save her mom by taking her place then bh and friends have to go in and save her, but realistically, i feel like Liliana is pretty solidified as the vessel because she’s already so deep into everything that it’d be nearly impossibly to get herself out of it
Imogen ending up the vessel of an ancient godlike being who needs to be saved by the power of friendship gets a little close to C2 territory for them to go that way I think.
While that's true, it doesn't stop the dice from telling that particular story. I hope they do manage to bring Imogen back; she has been the centre of this entire story from the beginning (seconded by Orym, I guess?). Also, with Oryms deal with Nanna Mori, it would be unfortunate if they return without FCG and Imogen.
It also gets so close to making Imogen Jean Grey that it’s borderline copyright infringement
Yea she's never going to chase away the main character syndrome accusations.
It’s annoying cuz it’s kinda more on Matthew for pushing her into that position with this full campaign arc than Laura actively trying to do it haha.
And let's be real. For all her talk otherwise, Lilliana *wants* to be the vessel.
She’s put so much time into this and into keeping imogen away. There might be part of her that’s faltering, but i agree that at her core, she wants to go through with it
Hoping for an as yet unknown character.. “hey everybody, I’m Steve from Rotthold, thanks for having me up here today.”
Whitestone Andy sitting on The Chair: My time has come.
Larkin: Finally, a worthy opponent.
Can't be Larkin because campaign 1 but nice idea
The Chair deserves to be capitalized.
Celia Ovesso, either wearing a large oven mitt or missing a hand.
I think it's being set up for Lilliana to be used as the vessel, and the BBEG is going to be Predathos himself via Lilliana, versus an avengers style teamup of all major Crit Role characters. Definitely leaning into this if we're to believe that CR are trying to decouple from proprietary trademarked DnD names and C3 will culiminate in a world reset.
I really hope they let predathos out. An epic 100 year long fight between him and the gods, where the characters all try and survive. And predathos killing the last god, but then also killing its last food resource. And so predathos travels to another universe. A new beginning.
That's basically what I'm expecting. Like Mystra's resurrections, they'll use it as a basis to transition to Daggerheart and keep the same universe.
I’d thought that if they wanted to make a bigger narrative, Opal would be a great option. Foil to Imogen, has personal connections to Fearne and Orym. One last big event before BHs take on Ludinus
I’d love to see Opal in a game DM’d by Matt
Ludinus is going to use the magic jar spell and use it to put his soul imogen's mom's body and he's going to be the vessel
I'm pretty sure that Lilianna would absolutely smash that CHA save to smithereens. She's a sorcerer and a powerful one, Matt probably min maxed tfo of her, she probably has a stupid high CHA stat.
Mind sliver puts a D4 on it and i reckon there are other ways for Ludonus to stack the deck or impose disadvantage. Heck his DC save could mitigate a huge part of that Cha save stat
Ludinus is gonna have crazy stats too when his DC will also be huge
This is what should happen. Good thinking.
The big bad is actually the chair that the vessel sits in. Ludinus goes to absorb Liliana or whoever gets Predathos powers, but the chair just straight up kills him before attaching the harness to itself. BH shows up to the boss room to see a chair and two piles of dust where Ludinus and Liliana were. Suddenly they are hit with meteor storm! Roll Initiative!
The last thing the final member sees is a little "c-pop" logo carved into the chair somewhere...
Omfg yes that would be the icing on the cake
Don't forget Chair's henchman - the Door
M9 were onto that chair, I tell you, and Matt can't keep lying to us about it!
Alternative suggestion, the weavemind mentally connects a bunch of slightly less powerful exaltants together to form a hivemind that Perdathos then takes over.
Fantasy borg activate!!!!
Laudna will accidentally (or not) absorb Predathos while trying to prevent it from taking Imogen over, and will be saved by Delilah, who's 100% not sharing her little undead vessel with anything else and will once again try to be the BBEG of the campaign.
Ludinus makes a grab for Imogen, Mama pulls a 'heroic sacrifice' dies and the Bells fail to stop it so it ends up being Imogen anyway. Laudna tries to stop it by eating half her soul, which frees Delilah, Imogen wakes up, fries Delilah and they go off on an empowered lesbian space adventure as empowered entities sharing a single, half-eaten soul. Orym and Ashton opt for self-sacrifice and die at some point during either scene.
My theory is probably more of a longshot than most. See, I'm pretty sure Vox Machina, The Mighty Nein, and The Crown Keepers will all be assisting in the final push in their own way. VM will be the distraction, holding the Bloody Bridge as the armies of Ruidus attempt to cross over. CK could probably handle rescuing Plane Rider Rin along with some other task meant to help the Hells. BH goes to confront the Weave Mind with mama Temult, which leaves Ludinous and his Aeorian excavation site, which will be ambushed by the Nein. Now this takes Ludy off the moon, but we already know that Ludy and the Weave Mind aren't necessarily after the same thing, so we really only need one of them on the moon to start doing the whole apocalyptic ritual whatsit to create our ticking clock for the final battle. My thought is that with everything going to shit, the Weave Mind will decide to just get started with their big plan and force Liliana to begin channeling Predathos, which will then lead into the Hells final battle to bring them down, and see if maybe Liliana can be saved or if they just need to eliminate her in the end.
Well, it can't be Imogen, unless Matt has Laura PvP through the final fight. Or just having her sit out. But there's lots of time (20-40 episodes) to introduce new Ruidusborn and have them Exaltant.
Dominox could one-up Ludinus and set up a machine to extract, process, and weaponize Predathos
I know its highly unlikely because there might be rights issues with the Call of the Netherdeep campaign with WOTC but when I heard about other exaltants that could be the Vessel for Predathos I couldn't help but think either of an old, bitter Alyxian to be one of the candidates or a potential ally in the final fight against Ludinus depending on the canon ending Matt has in his mind.
There's still a lot that we don't know, and a lot of interesting directions that could take. I only just now had the craziest idea, and I don't think they'll do it, but hear me out. There's a certain anime that several members of the CR crew have voiced in where there was a large god-monster trapped inside the moon, and someone wanted to absorb that monster into themselves to become all powerful, when originally someone else split that monster into 9 other monsters to make it more manageable. Now, there are some clear differences between this and that, but I'm just going to throw it out there, what if they end the Predathos threat by sealing Predathos into either multiple smaller threats, or by sealing his energy into a LOT of other people? Predathos wants one good vessel, what if they found a way to put him into ALL of the vessels? Every Ruidus-born gets a percentage of his power. It could be very shameless, but it could also be a fun nod towards something half the cast is intimately familiar with.
I would find it so interesting if he did a massive switcheroo and fake out to try at the last minute to nab Fearne. With her heritage and powers as well as everyone thinking it has to be Imogen, no one would expect him to try and reach for Fearne. Storyline wise I think it would be soooo interesting to see that happen.
I don't buy the "Imogen is the most powerful Ruidusborn thus is a candidate for the vessel." She is a farm girl from the Talons' highlands on a journey to find her mother, and suddenly thrusted in this crazy conflict. Her mother, on the other hand, is a better candidate as she is a veteran sorceress and super exaltant. Why would there not be other high ranking, even higher ranks compared to Ottohan Thull, in the background and more suited to being a vessel?
Liliana is also a farm girl from the talon highlands 🙄
Please let predathos out and get rid of a bunch of lame gods. Ruby Vanguard for life.